Jocko Podcast - 47: How to Overcome Set-backs at Work, MMA Fighters VS. SEALS, Prep VS. Winging it, Rituals for mindset, BJJ Gym Loyalty

Episode Date: November 2, 2016

0:00:00 - Opening 0:01:09 - Would an MMA Fighter be a good SEAL? 0:08:57 - Who would win in a fight?  MMA Fighter or Navy SEAL? 0:25:43 - No time to explain the "why" to the Troops. 0:32:11 - Advice for people with Poor/ineffective leaders. 0:40:51 - Rituals to get mentally prepared and focused. 1:13:20 - Being prepared VS. 'winging it'. 1:21:16 - Jiu Jitsu Gym Loyalty VS. Freedom to train wherever. 1:59:13 - Getting through and over rough times at work, family, and financial. 2:03:53 - Dope internet, Onnit, Amazon, and Jocko Store stuff.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 47 with Echo Charles and me Jocker Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. And I went a little long with a couple reviews. We've done some interviews. We interviewed J.P. Dinell. And I got a ton of really solid books that I'm reading. I'm learning a lot from all.

All of them. And just getting a lot out of those books that I'm reading right now about war. Sure. And about leadership and about human nature and about life. But kind of failed to answer questions for the last few podcasts. Questions from the interwebs from everybody out there that's listening. And the question has been piling up. So tonight we're going to simply dive into some questions from,

you all out there. So let's get right to it. Echo Charles. Yes. Question number one. What do you got? Jocko. Do you think that most

MMA fighters have what it takes to be seals, the mental and physical, the brutal weight cut, the brutal fight camp, and stepping into a cage with a train and elite opponent? Well, this is one of those questions where you might think

there's like a really definitive answer, but there isn't really. Some MMA fighters could definitely be great seals for sure. Some of them actually wouldn't stand a chance as seals. And there's a lot of things that made people quit and not want to be seals or quit during seal training. You know, you've got the water. Some people don't like the water.

Some people are uncomfortable in the water. Great athletes, not good in the water. Some people don't like the cold. And they can take all kinds of punishment of physical nature. But they don't like the cold. Some people don't like heights. And you get to the top of a 40 or 50 foot cargo net and you've got to climb over that little pole at the top,

get to the other side. Some people don't like that. Some people can't do some simple stuff like memorize. You can't memorize certain facts. And there is an intellectual level that you have to have. Some people aren't situationally aware, right? So some of these, like, for instance, you know, you know, you have certain MMA fighters

who are real wild and it's one of their good characteristics is that they're they're kind of out of control it helps them do wild things and fight unexpected things you can't be like that in the kill house with going live fire right you can't have that why you need to be able to suppress that some people can't suppress that so what you'd end up with someone is someone that's going to have safety issues because they they're too instinctual and they can't get those instincts under control some people might have too much endurance but not enough strength some people might have too much strength and not enough endurance some people are injury prone right some people are just injury prone and it's not their fault many cases but they are and and then you take so that's sort of

the things that it takes to be in the seal teams that would could hold up or trip up somebody that's just standard m-ma fighter now the same thing is true with seals that would be MMA fighters, right? Or could SEAL potentially be an MMA fighter? And there's been a few SEALs that have, uh, that have, you know, that have fought really well and good fighters and all that. But to make a blanket statement, there's going to be things that trip people up. And for instance, some guys in the SEAL teams, they're not the best athlete.

their athletic ability is not as high as it might need to be to be a true competitor in MMA. You know, whether that's they don't have the explosiveness or they don't have the coordination of the flexibility, there's something that's going to make them not competitive. And normally those guys, I mean, sometimes they might not be the best seals, you know, but some of those guys are super smart. And so the reason that they're good seals is because they're just tactically sound. And or they're really good leaders. They're never going to beat people on the range shooting because they're just not that coordinated.

They don't have the hand-eye coordination. But they're good seals anyways. But when you put them in a purely physical competition like MMA, I shouldn't say, a more physical on physical competition like MMA, they're not going to do well. And of course, obviously there's a skill set, right? MMA fighters train MMA all the time. That's what they do. They train Jiu-Jitsu and boxing and wrestling and Maitai and judo.

that's what they do. And SEALs also train all the time, but guess what? When you're in SEAL team, you're not just training, just fighting, right? You're training shooting and you're training tactics and you're training patrolling and land navigation and parachuting and combat diving and fast roping and rappelling and waterborne operations, all this stuff. And then on top of all that stuff, which is the stuff that you actually really need to train, then they put on a level of mixed martial.

arts training to make sure that if you are for whatever reason without a weapon or if you need to handle somebody that doesn't have a weapon and so therefore you might not be in the right to just shoot them and kill them you've got to be able to handle yourself so there's some level of m mma training some fundamental jihitsu skills some fundamental striking skills some fundamental wrestling skills that that seals get but it's not at the level of what a real mhm a fighter is going to have. So with all that, I think there's a good percentage of MMA fighters that would make it through seal training and be good seals. And there's a good number of seals that would probably make really good solid MMA fighters if they chose to do that and focus their lives on it.

Because there are some common traits with both of them. Both of them take hard work. Both of them take some level of physical suffering, right? Grind. I mean, you've been around when we're running in MMA camps for people. It's a grind. Yeah. It's a grind. It's a day and day out grind. Now, there's some luxury to that grind.

There's some luxury to that grind because when you're in an MMA camp, yeah, you work hard as hell from, you know, seven in the morning until 9 o'clock doing your strength and conditioning. But then you're going to go home and you're going to get a massage and you're going to get, you're going to have some really good food standing by and you're going to sit down. You're going to relax. And then at 11 o'clock, you're going to go back to the gym and now you're going to do your your grappling training and you're going to train really hard for an hour maybe an hour and a half you can do drills you're going to get worn out again and then then you're going to go eat some lunch

you're going to relax you're going to go back home you're going to lay down maybe take a little ice bath and a little jacuzzi so there's some luxury to the mhmate and in the seal teams there's not that it's not happening you're just getting ground down when you're going through the basic training and when you're going through you know the advanced workup training you're you're just getting beat down all the time. It's a grind. But both of them are a grind and that's why I think the work ethic

that comes with a really good seal or a really good MMA fighter, there's a very strong similarity there and the ability to take that grind is what I think that that intrinsic discipline is what would make the crossover occur. So that would make a

seal into a good MMA fighter or an MMA fighter into a good seal or a good special operations guy. Yeah. And there's in the crossover, it's ultimately just how you say it's kind of hard to identify overall. It's real general because like an MMA fighter is training. Sure, he's training to be a better MMA fighter in general, but mainly he's training for an event. So he knows, okay, it's going to be this many rounds. It's going to be this long per round.

I'm going to get this much rest for this round. And I'm training to win that. Real specific. So the training is. If it's good training, it's going to best train him to function in that event, given the parameters. Yeah. Combat. Maybe still not like that.

You're straight up training. You know, a great example. This is Tim Kennedy, right? Tim Kennedy's a Green Beret, special forces guy, and he's a complete beast, you know, and he's a great example of a guy that has the commitment, the discipline, the dedication to be a special forces guy. And that translates right into how he works out and trains for fights. That guy trains like a madman for fights. and I think that's a great example of somebody not only can do one or the other he does both

you know real time he's in it he's fighting November 15th right against Rashad Evans so good on him and I actually had like another follow-on question to this which is in the same arena who would win yeah who would win who would win in a fight between a UFC fighter and a SEAL team member and I'll just go ahead and broaden that out to make

it like you know a special operations guy because people put special operations personnel onto a pedestal of you know totally being able to kick everyone's ass which is well to answer the question in its simplest form if the if there was a fight and it's mixed martial arts competition so like in a cage what you were just talking about with a referee and you know That's the way it's going to be. And there's five minute rounds. And there's five, five minute rounds. I'm going to see who's going to win this fight.

Barring a massive weight difference. And a rare special operations guy that has a high level of training. If you take 175 pound special operations guy that just trained like a normal special operations guy doesn't have any specialties. We're not talking Tim Kennedy We're not talking to any of these guys that actually are committed and getting into it And train outside the actual discipline of their job if it's just a normal run-of-the-mill guy from the special operations community Against a professional UFC fighter in the same weight class

It's the UFC fighter is gonna win That's those are the facts and Again, that's an occasion and I know this because you know what I've trained with a lot of really high level UFC fighters and I mean I've trained with with Randy and Tito and I've trained with Brandon Vera and with Quentin Rampage Jackson and I've trained with Dan Henderson and matter of fact I've trained with Bisping too so I've trained with a lot of these guys you know none of them at a like all the time although Brandon Vera and I used to train together all the time but and he's awesome um but I train with those guys you know I train with those guys and you know

not to mention Dean Dean Lister I've been trained with forever so I've trained and when I train with those guys a majority of the time I would train grappling specific so we wouldn't be just doing straight MMA so we're training in an in an arena that's geared towards me you know some somewhere that I'm actually good at right I've been trained in judicious for 20 years and so when I go in the cage with those guys or when I've trained with those guys I'm competitive with them you know So, you know, we have good training, right? We're, it's not like, yeah, we have good training.

It's good competitive training with all those guys. But I've been training this stuff for a long time. So my magical special operations powers, they, I know what they are and they're not real. You're going to, you have to learn how to fight to be able to hang with these guys. And if you don't know how to train, if I put, you know, because I, when I train with a regular, you know, a seal that doesn't train. Of course, you, it's jiu-jitsu. You freaking destroy them. They have no chance.

So when if you take a guy that's just a normal guy that doesn't train, they're going to get their ass beat just like any other. You get no magical powers. Will you be tough? Sure. Will you? And this is good. Like, you know, you take your average seal and you start teaching with Jitsu, they're great

training partners because they're strong. They have great endurance. They go freaking hard. They don't quit. They don't give up. They'll keep training with you until they don't tap easy. So yeah, they're great training partners. And the more you teach them, the better they're going to get.

And they're going to learn quickly because they're going to be focused on it. So that's all good. But the fact of the matter is, you take a skill. And you know, you take a skilled UFC fighter and it doesn't matter that you were a quote unquote, you know, Navy SEAL or Special Operations guy. That's, that's just not going to happen. So now the other kind of thing on this is if you take both people now out of the cage and you put them into a survival type situation. Now the special operations person is going to have a much better chance. Because first of all, they're going to be able to, they're going to try and avoid the bad situation if they can.

And if they do have to fight, they are much more likely to use some kind of a improvised weapon to do some kind of sneak attack, to have backup, right, in the form of other guys that you didn't realize were with him. And all of a sudden you're getting hit in the head of the bottle. It's the professional fighter, of course, has a huge advantage. But there will be there is some when you get out of the cage and there's no referee There's there's some things that you know your average special operations guys are going to be thinking about That your normal person wouldn't be thinking about in these situations So you know that's why I said you know just in general first of all don't get any street fights

It's not smart doesn't get you anywhere And you see guys that are in the military just in general they kind of have another little level that they might take things to right and that's that's you know you think you're getting a little fist fight right you think oh I'm in a ball arms

getting a little fist fight with this person the next thing you know someone's biting off your nose right or someone's ripping off your ear or someone's sticking a fork in your eye because that's the kind of thing like that's the kind of thing that you take one of these people who's trained and that has a little switch in their head that they go

oh, I'm in a combat scenario right now where this guy's attacking me and I'm going to chew off his nose or I'm going to rip off his ear or I'm going to gouge out his eyes and I'm going to do it right now as fast as I can. So that's why, you know, just you've got to use caution.

And I got actually one of my buddies back in the day. Sure. There was, we were in a bar and some guy was getting cocky and said something to a girl. And, you know, he knew the girl and blah, blah, blah, blah, and there was whatever situation.

So my buddy's like, hey, hey, can you go ahead and apologize to that girl? You know, because that wasn't cool. He said it all nice. Yeah, like just all nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the guys, you know, what? And he says, hey, no, no problem. I just, you said something to the girl over there.

You see her? Yeah, with the red shirt on. Yeah, you said something to her and it was kind of offensive. So if you could just go, you know, apologize to her, then, you know, we're all good here. And he's, what do you mean? We're all good. No, I mean, if you can just apologize to her, then we're all good. And, you know, the guy says something like, you know, what are you going to do about?

And as he's finishing those words, the guy was smoking a cigarette, as he's finishing those words, my buddy, in a millisecond, in a nanosecond, like faster than you can snap your fingers, he snatches the cigarette out of the guy's mouth and shoves it with absolute laser target precision. up the guy's nose a burning cigarette so this dude just and he put it he put it in there deep I don't even know how he did it like a ninja move bam it's up there

the dude collapses I mean can you imagine you know I mean you've seen people like put a cigarette out on their arm or whatever it leaves a scar for the rest of their life yeah he shoved the cigarette the burning cigarette up the guy's nose the guy collapses to the ground and just like screaming in

I mean, just completely defenseless. So that's the kind of thing. Maybe that guy was a tough guy. Maybe that guy was thinking, oh, I'm a boxer or whatever this guy might have been. I don't even know because the fight was over before it even started because the guy had a burning cigarette jammed up in his nasal cavity in a split second fights over. That's the kind of thing that let's be friends with each other. Let's just try and treat each other with respect out there so we're not getting into fights. Because I got a bunch of stories like that.

And they don't end well. You know, they don't end well. And, yeah. That's kind of like, like special operations guys that's kind of in. I'm not, the guy that you're talking about is not a special operations guy, right? That's just, that was just. The guy that did the cigarette up the nose? Oh, no.

He's a seal. Oh, yeah. And this was years ago. Okay. Many, many years ago. And yeah, he did it just like that. And that's the kind of thing. Like, again, the guy that he's talking to thinks he's a tough guy.

Yeah. thinks, oh, I'm a tough guy who, what's this little, you know, guy talking to me, talking smack, telling me to apologize. I don't have to apologize anybody. And this was also pre-MMA days. But, you know, maybe the guy's a boxer. Maybe the guy's a wrestler. He may, it might be a tough guy. But I guess apparently when you get a burning cigarette shoved up your nose, you're not tough anymore.

It just goes over like that. Yeah. Even, I mean, even better than, as an example, is where first off, if the guy, you know how he said he's saying it all calm? Like, hey, just go and apologize. That would have made me nervous right there. They're like, oh, this case too. Anyway, but that's the side thing. So, like, yeah, so a special operations guy compared to an MMA guy, he's about every, he's thinking beyond the fight.

He's thinking straight up, this is a battle. So how can I win this war? You know, MMA fighter is thinking, like, when we fight, how am I going to beat you up with all my skills? And he will. Typically, you will. Unless you have equal or better skills, you're going to get beat up in a fight, yeah. So, but the tactic, like the other guy, he's thinking tactical. He's thinking, okay, you know, he'll probably.

And according to the guys that I hang around with, when they walk in a room, just like a jiu-jitsu guy, when a person is presented to you, you're thinking jujitsu already. You're thinking, okay, from here, a solid take-down would come. A special operation guy is thinking I can stick my pen in this guy's eye real quick. Pan, there's the door. And, you know, let's say other guys just came in. Okay, so I got five guys. He has like eight before any fight. No fight, no nothing.

This is just the way, you know, the way that kind of the mind works. and then so yeah if and he's planning like your guy he had that plan already oh yeah you know it's not like he was like oh i'm just gonna attack and that just kind of came about boom during the process of the attack he knew like okay he had a cigarette that's part of my plan my tactic you know um so yeah when you go outside of just the fight though too like you think about you you know the apple gate rex applegate the whole idea of of self-defense being gross motor movements instead of fine motor movements. So if you ever look at some of the old school unarmed combat from the military,

it's all based on this idea that when you get in a fight, you want to do these big gross motor skills. In other words, just giant movements with your fist and with your legs. So there's no really fine motor skills because when your adrenaline's pumping and you're in this fight, you're going to make little mistakes. Imagine the fine motor skills it takes to grab a cigarette and start up someone's nose

in a split second. I know. There's another story, And I don't know why Tim, Tim Kennedy and I, we talked about it before we came on the podcast. And we didn't get to it. Maybe we'll talk about it next time because we reviewed the whole story.

And it's a great story. As you know, he trained at the pit in San Luis Obispo for a while. And Seals used to do training up there. And one night and all the guys that trained with Tim at the time, they all used to work as bouncers. And these guys are pro. I want to say, I wish I could remember. the names of the crew but it's basically the old school San Luis Obispo pit crew right so it's I'm

gonna say Dan McGee Tim Kennedy Chuck Liddell that crew right those guys before you know the UFC was big those guys all worked as bouncers in San Luis Obispo so some seals were doing some training up in the area it went out in town got into a fight and they the guys got their ass get the seals got their ass kicked yeah pretty much by and it was you know Tim and I were laughing about it because again Again, this is before the UFC was really popular and they got into a fight. And of course, not only is it a bunch of UFC or at least high-level MMA guys that are working as bouncers so they're sober fighting against a bunch of drunk team guys. I know, and it was funny because I, they said, man, you know, because these seals got their asses kick and they're kind of like came back.

Like, oh, man, these bouncers were tough. And then I go, where was it? And they're like San Luis Spispo. And then somehow through the grapevine, through the MMA grapevine. there somebody told me back hey jaco those guys that got it was these guys it was guys from the pit yeah and uh i was like oh okay i know that story by the way because a guy he was a new guy he was yeah i'm not gonna say his name i think he's still in so i'm gonna say his name but he man i'm through the cake nuts you know they'd come by and all the that's how i met j p

kind of the same way up but um and but he would always come in the club that i worked at and so we kind of became friends you know so after we're done we're eating at the same spot yeah And he's like, yeah, man, Chuck Liddell beat me up. Yeah, yeah. Not like we were, you know, beat him down. But we got in a fight and Chuck Lidl beat me up. You know, like hit him and knocked him down. And I actually, yeah, that's what happened.

So that was a classic example. And by the way, you know, I'll say something about while we're talking about Chuck Lidl. Chuck, when Chuck's always been like awesome to vets, especially wounded vets. So Chuck Lidl, hey, if he's bouncing at a bar and you're a vet and you get out of line, you're going to get put down. But if you're a warrior, that always impressed me about Chuck was he did some great stuff for the troops that been wounded overseas. And that always gave me a lot of respect for him, you know, even more respect than I have for him as being a great fighter. But anyways, that kind of answers the question.

And so my overall broad guidance here is train hard to do battle, but do your battles in the gym, not in the street. It's only going to get you either put in jail or put in the hospital or both So yeah Remember this guy we trained with got his ear bit off remember Yeah, Igor yeah yeah yeah was he in Navy still or is he yeah he yeah he got out yes yes Yeah yeah he got to a street fight yeah he knew jihitsu and I mean he he he he kicked the guy's ass right Yeah, he actually I think he moitai clinched him put him down the ground got cross side yeah was kind of put in the putting the beat down on this guy and the dude just bit big chunk of zero big he bit a chunk of his ear out bigger than the chunk that um bigger than chunk that mike tyson did out i mean he was a big chunk i mean he's his ear is clearly has a bite taken out of it like if you took a bite a big nice solid bite out of a piece of pizza that's what his ear looks like no man and you know oh cool you won the fight yeah but you have no ear left so that's a bummer and that's another thing that's another point to that is that

Sometimes these self-defense type people think that, you know, oh, well, I'll gouge your eyes out. And that's the indication that I just kind of gave, too, that, hey, the Navy SEAL might do something tricky to you. Well, the bottom line is that stuff is a lot of times doesn't work. And that's a perfect case. The guy bid his ear off and thinks, oh, the guy's going to give up. No, he's not giving up. That means he went even harder. That means, oh, now you've got a guy across the side that's about to ruin your shoulder for the rest of your life of the camera and then put you to sleep.

And it's just a bad situation. So you can't just another thing about those Those thinking that you don't need to train Because you're gonna do a ninja move or you're gonna shove a cigarette If some guy's nose no wrong answer or you're gonna bite their ear off or you're gonna no That's not it's not true you need to train so that you can get in those positions and that you won't lose these fights And also you need to train say you don't have to get in fights because most of the time when you're getting to fights because your ego is getting out of control and you can't you can't handle it in your little brain You get all yeah get all insecure about who you are as a

man so you think I'm gonna kick this guy's ass and then you're either getting your ass kicked you're getting put in the hospital or you're going to jail or you got a big lawsuit against you yeah so be smart yeah that's rough I remember I'm blood sport when he was like you know the coin you watch blood remember blessed the guy with the coin and he's like hey you know whatever I'm if I can grab it before you close your hand and the girl had something do with it and he's like He grabs it. He closed the hand. He's like,

ah, you know, I still feel the coin in my hand kind of thing. He looks, he switched the coin. That's kind of what your friend did with a cigarette when he shoved it in the guy's sinus cavity. Because it's like super fast,

you know, but precise. But you can't count on that move. That's my point. Yep. All right. Kicking it off. Let's go to question number two.

Shue. Jocko, what if I don't have time to explain the why to my truth? for a decision I'm making during an operation. U.S. Army First Lieutenant. So awesome. Thanks for your service. U.S. Army First Lieutenant.

Get some. And I talk about troops and people in general, never wanting a plan to be imposed upon them. And so that's what this question is kind of based around. Because I'm going to say, look, you know, you don't want to just force people to do some plan. You want to say, Hey, what do you think you should do?

And hey, here's what we're doing and here's why we're doing it. This is why it's important. And that gets people to take ownership of it and therefore they do a better job. So he must have heard me say that. And now he's saying, look, sometimes I ain't got time to be explaining the why when we're getting this going on. And that's why this idea of explaining the why is true 99% of the time in an administrative situation, in a situation where things are under control and we've got time to think about what's happening. that's when you can go and say, hey, what's your, what do you think?

How do you think we should do this? This is why I want to accomplish. This is the commander's intent. You can do it all that stuff. And that makes sense, again, in a administrative situation. When there's chaos and when there's mayhem and when there's uncertainty, actually the opposite is true. You actually want your troops to, they want, they want to. see and hear clear directives from you they want to know what they should do in no

uncertain terms and it's you can think of situations where if you've seen let's say a car accident right and you see people that are kind of frazzled if someone steps up into that situation don't one's doing anything that they're supposed to be doing if someone steps up and says you too start dragging that person over there you go call 911 they actually teach that you know when you when you're learning about how to handle traumatic situations, somebody needs to step up, step back, take charge of the situation. Everybody wants that to happen. And that's true in a combat scenario.

Again, this is different from when we're in the rear and we're formulating a plan and we're safely going over whatever ideas we have and that's when you want to get input and feedback and you let your subordinate leadership come up with a plan. That's all good. But that's not true during a, like I said, during a pressure situation when there's a critical scenario unfolding people want to be led. Now, when you lead them in those situations, you can still give orders by commander's intent. You can still just give intent.

So an example of that, and I actually wrote my example down, you can say, like, Delta 1-6, we need high ground on the other side of that road. Make it happen. So then the Delta-16 commander goes, okay, I need high ground on the other side of the road. There's a good building. Looks like that. Someone we could take, hey, you know, squad, come with me, and they go over and take down the building.

I gave them a, still gave him commander's intent. I gave them very clear commander's intent. I didn't really tell them why. I didn't say, hey, what do you think would be best? Do you think it's a good idea to get high ground? No. I said, go get high ground on the other side of the street. That's what I told them to do.

So I'm going to let them figure out. They understand what the intent is. You could say something a little bit more specific. You could give them an actual, an actual directive. You could say, Charlie 1-6, take two squads, assault building 34 on the other side of the road, get high ground on the rooftop, go. Now we have something, it's more specific.

Again, it's not commander's intent. It's directly I'm telling you what to do. And a lot of times people are going to want that. They're going to want to hear exactly what to do in these pressure situations. So depending on the level of experience that your subordinate leadership has, depends on maybe how specific you're going to get

with just giving commanders intent versus giving something. think very specific to do. Both of those are the right answers. If you have a really good leader underneath you and you can just give them the intent and even let them come up the plan, cool, go with that. If you got somebody that needs a little more guidance, give them a little bit more specific guidance.

Now, obviously one part of that is you've got to have trust. You've got to have trust with the subordinate leadership that you're working with, whether that's you working with your whole platoon and you just got to trust your squad leaders and your fire team leaders. but you've got to build that trust through training and through hard training through coaching them and mentoring. And again, I hate using the word coaching and mentoring because that always gives an air of superiority. And I'm not going to want to come off across as superior to other people. Why do I not want to come off as superior to other people?

Well, number one, because it unifies our team more. And number two, because I'm not superior to other people. Right. I'm another person. And my subordinates, even though they might not have as much time and rank or experiences me, they still might have great ideas. And I respect that. So this isn't a, hey, I don't want to use coach or mentor because I'm manipulating them.

And I want to make sure that they, that they listen to me because I'm being a certain way with them. No, no. I legitimately respect what they're saying. That's the difference here. So, but that's, but my goal is to build trust. And the other way that you build trust. And I've said this before is by giving trust.

You know, hey, I trust that you can do this. Hey, Echo, you're going to go take down the building? I trust your plan. Come up with it and make it happen. Boom, you could do it. You trust me more. When I trust you, you trust me and that's what we want to do. Now, when the operation is over and now you're in a post-operational debrief, then you can

discuss why you gave a certain order or you can get feedback from them on why they executed a certain way and you can get the questions going back and forth. And through that little question and answer period that takes place during a post-operational debrief, we get to know each other more. We build more trust and we become better as a team. So that's the way it works. You don't always have time to explain why. Pressure situations, you lead. Yeah.

Yeah, that trust thing is big. Indeed. Next question. Next question. I like it. What we got? What advice do you have for those who have weak, poor, or otherwise ineffective leaders? How do you manipulate that situation?

So, again, I think I may have actually answered this question before, but I'll answer it again. Sure. When you are in a situation like this, when you got somebody that's weak or ineffective leader or a poor leader, the answer is always the same. You lead. You lead yourself. And I hope people that listen to the podcast on the regular, you all knew what I was going to say there. You all know that when someone is not leading you,

then you lead them. You pick up the slack for the weakness. My leader doesn't want to come up with the plan? Cool. I will. My leader doesn't want to give a brief? That's fine. I will.

My leader doesn't want a mentor. the younger troops, that's okay. I will do it. Leader doesn't want to take the blame when something goes wrong. That's fine with me. I'm going to take the blame. And you think about that one,

that one can be tricky because you think, well, I'm going to look bad in front of the more senior boss. Now think about it from the senior boss's position. If you work for me, ECHO, and the boss comes in and the mission was a failure, and I'm the guy that's in charge, And I say, sorry, boss, we failed.

It was Echo's fault. And Echo goes, hey, sir, it was my fault. Here's what happened. Here's the mistakes I made. And here's what we do to fix it next time. Who do you respect more? Of course, I'm looking to promote you. I actually want to promote you.

I want to fire myself for being a guy that's passing the buck and passing the responsibility and not taking ownership of anything. So imagine what that looks like. Before you get all intimidated by taking the blame for something and think you're going to look bad and think you're going to get fired, think about what it looks like from the senior perspective. and you actually have to imagine what it will look like underneath you. You have to see it from your perspective because even when you think about their perspective,

you still can be in fear of it. You think, oh, I'm the guy that's taking the blame. I'm the one that's going to get fired. No. And am I saying this blanket that there's sometimes where if the boss screws something up really bad, like let's say it was something like classified information got left out.

And it was your boss that literally left it out. And you go, no. it was me well first of all you're not telling the truth right so you're not telling the truth and the person made a mistake that's that there's no excuse for so that's not a situation that I'm talking about and if your boss

was the type of person that said yes I'm going to put the blame on him I would burn them alive like actually here's what really happened so I'm not talking about that type of situation but when you're doing an operational thing where there's mistakes that get made and your boss is scared to take ownership of them Take ownership of them.

Not that you will win in the long run. Now here's the part that is crucial and critical and the most challenging part of this. And that is when you step up and lead, you want to make sure you aren't stepping up and stepping on your leader. You don't want to step into their little spotlight. You don't want to impose yourself in their leadership limelight and glory. You don't want to do that. You can't do that. You want them to get the credit.

You don't want to have them be intimidated by you in any way. And this is hard because when you start taking ownership for stuff, it can be very intimidating for the person that's above you because they think, dang, this guy just, he's just, a bold bastard that's stepping up and taking charge of stuff and they might get intimidated that so so what you have to do is you have to do some some indirect maneuver warfare here and for instance if they don't want to if they don't want to come up with the plan maybe you start saying hey sir what do you think of this would this be a good plan and maybe if you're if they're not mentoring the younger guys maybe say hey you know what i want to do this up i want to spend some time

with the guys after work do you mind if i have a little session with them kind of go over what we've earned on last appointment or hey about this new regulatory thing that's come out in the business world and I want to get our younger troops to know it do you mind if I teach a class on that so you're you're asking them permission and you might even say you know hey I think it would look really good for you too if we were doing this so you want to make them look good and those are the ways that you do that you step up and lead but make sure you're not stepping on your leader because that could backfire. And you could end up in a situation where they feel intimidated

and you're getting put in the doghouse or fired or demoted or in trouble because they feel intimidated by you. So use caution. If you have a good leader, some leaders just aren't that aggressive. And when you start getting aggressive, they start, they actually like the fact that you're getting aggressive. And they like, I mean, I work for some people that love the fact that I would step up and take charge. They had no problem with it because they were good, confident leaders. It's the

insecure leader you have to watch out for. The insecure leader that's worried about looking bad. And that's another, to change perspective again on this, when you as a leader have somebody that's stepping up and taking charge, and you start feeling intimidated by it, ask yourself why. It's probably your ego. You're being a weak leader by being intimidated by your subordinates. If your subordinate is doing your job and doing it better than you, step up and start looking, how can you go up the chain of command? How can you look up and out? What other areas can you focus on since that leader has stepped up and is making things happen?

That's awesome. That is awesome. We want that. That's decentralized command. That's building other leaders underneath you, which is what your goal is a leader should always be. And I'll tell you, every time I see someone that goes, oh, I got a weak leader. I'm always like, lucky you. Yeah, yeah.

Lucky you. Take advantage of that. Take advantage of it. Do whatever you want. You have such not good opportunity when you have a weak leader above you. Don't look at that. Don't get all downtrodden because, man, my leader just doesn't motivate you. Awesome.

Motivate yourself. Get in charge of things. Take advantage of it. Make things happen. It's awesome to have a weak leader. I love it. Get after it. It's going to give me so much mobility in my, in my,

in my job, right? I'm so much more mobility. Then if I've got someone, hey, if I got someone that's a strong leader, that's great too. But weak leader's no factor. I'm going to take advantage of it.

Yeah, feel like you'd... Yes, I would. You're like, you got a weak leader and you're kind of, you're not stepping up. You're essentially allowing the group,

the team, the objectives to kind of fail in a way. You're kind of allowing it. And then in a way, too, depends on what you do. But in a way, you're kind of being like, hey, all right, you're allowing the excuse to be valid, you know, which kind of makes it invalid really when you're like, hey, I could step up. But hey, it's the leader's as long as it's not my fault. You know, my leader's nothing. You're really not taking much ownership.

Yeah. You just point your finger at your leader and say this is a weak leader. Yeah. That's not what we do here. Not what we do at all. And the times where I've had weak leaders, I always took advantage of it, like I said, one time, and I've talked about this on the podcast before,

we fired our leader. We had a little mutiny. That only happened once for me, but it happens. I mean, obviously I don't know all the details of that, but in a way, isn't that you just stepping up and making it happen? I mean, if that's really the impending result, like, dang, that's kind of where we're going to arrive at, really, given us stepping up.

If that's how it goes down, that's how it goes down. But you stepped up, you solved the problem. If there was a problem, then that was a problem, there's your solution right there. Yes. Up and down the chain of command. You got to own it, for sure. Dang. All right.

Jocko. Next question. Jocko. Did you do anything ritualistically to get yourself mentally prepared, focused, and in the proper mindset. So just before carrying out of me, such as self-talk music or other actions you know get yourself revved up pre-operation preparedness for the mental state so people ask this and it's and it actually

sounds like a pretty cool question right I mean it sounds like a pretty cool question I'm sure people wonder that it's a lot of times because you think seals and soldiers and Marines must have some kind of deep and incredibly meaningful borderline religious ceremony that they go to and through in order to prepare their mind for combat. Maybe it's a meditation on the warrior code. Or maybe it's an aggressive song to peak your adrenaline. Maybe it's a breathing exercise.

We've got a special breathing exercise that's going to heighten my, mental awareness and there's even seals and i i use that term loosely that have written books on that subject of you know this this warrior mindset and the the navy seal breathing techniques and the the visualization and things like that no i i hate to spoil the romantic vision of the mindful warrior poet but that actually that that idea just it does not what happens and here's the reality um first and foremost when you are in combat and you're preparing for an operation you are freaking busy you are busy you are planning you're doing coordination you're doing gear prep you're doing briefings you're making all these adjustments and changes to everything that's happening you don't we are

scrambling around i was talking laf the other day and and there was most of the time if we were going on on in the field on an operation we wouldn't be sleeping for 24 hours before we went in the field you know maybe we get two or three hours but it was a sleep deprivation before we went in the field because of all the planning and preparation that needed to be done especially on the big operations with battalion sized or or brigade sized operations there's so much planning of preparation that needs to be done that you don't have you're not just you're not just sitting around figuring out what kind of mental prep you're going to do there's just last minute detail there's a phone call you got a place to hire headquarters there's a a deconficion document that you got to prepare

you got to you got to get stuff done so taking some some kind of men meditative moments to get in the right mindset it's just not happening you just don't have the time for it now that being said mindset it is a part of combat right and so how did i get in the right mission mindset well the mindset is not achieved in the minutes or even hours before an operation from you know chanting a mantra or breathing or meditation or listening to some song that's going to get you in touch with your warrior spirit the the mindset is achieved in the

the weeks and the months and the years before that specific operation commences that's another thing the the idea from that actually I was raised on in the 90s in the SEAL teams was like you were going to do a mission we used to joke about it called the big mish right the big mission was going to come it was going to be one mission right and you could get hey we're going to plan for it we're going to plan for it for weeks maybe even months and we're

going to be able to visualize everything and we're going to have all this time the reality is overseas you know since the war started man you're doing an operation every night you're going out you've got another we come back you're planning for that one and when that one gets canceled for whatever reason there's two more that you're planning for you're running out to grab intelligence you're meet with somebody else It's just constantly ongoing. So we weren't ever preparing for one mission. We were planning, we were preparing for mission after mission. We'd have five, six, seven, ten.

We'd have ten operations in the hopper at any given time that we're planning and preparing for. We're gathering intelligence for. We're setting up. We're doing route studies for four or five different operations at one time. Then finally one rises to the occasion. Boom, we're going to go hit that one the next night. Another one's up the top. We're going to go hit that one.

So again, this idea that I think came from the 90s of, hey, we're going to do the big Mish. that we're going to have to get in the mental mindset. No, we lived in the mental mindset, but that mindset came from the training that we went through, the grueling training, through the repetition of the fundamental skill sets. The mindset comes from the discipline, from waking up early,

from studying tactics, from understanding the enemy, from all those unmitigated daily disciplines. That's where the mindset comes with. It comes from. And I'll tell you, on top of that, on top of that, you have to come to grip with some pretty horrific potential outcomes, right? You have to accept some solemn possibilities like that you might be severely wounded or that you might be killed.

And you also have to think that about the guys, your friends, your friends. that is another possibility that you have to think about but for yourself you you have to accept that possibility you have to accept that potential outcome that you could die and you have to accept that now you don't want it of course you want to live but you have to accept the fact that in the game the game of combat you could very well die and

I knew that and I was okay with it but but I had come to that conclusion a long time before whatever operation I was getting to roll out on one particular night during a six month long deployment so the mindset is built over time

and like knowledge that you have, the mindset, it becomes so ingrained. That knowledge becomes so ingrained that you don't have to cram for it. Like you'd cram for a final exam. You don't have to cram for the test of combat in the last minute. You already know.

You already have the confidence. You know you've done everything possible to prepare mentally, to prepare physically, to prepare emotionally. And then when the call comes And you put on your camis and you fill up your canteens and you put on your helmet And you lock down your night vision You lock and load your weapon to roll out the gate

You're ready You've seen the movie gone in 60 seconds? No I've seen no movies that you've seen Not a stature There's a part where they're about their carjackers the team of car thieves. They got to do this mission

to save the brother. They're all retired. But they got to do this one last mission. The big mesh. The big mission, yeah, exactly. So they go through a thing getting into a mindset drill. So check it out.

Imagine if in the movie they were doing that mission every single night. Yeah, yeah. They're not going through that drill every night because they know they've prepared, they know they got their mind right, and they're going to go out

and execute the operation. That's the difference. Or maybe they would do it every night. This is what they do. All right, let's hear it. They put on lowrider, you know the song? Then they just kind of listen to it. And then they go.

Super subtle. Yeah. Maybe check it out. Yeah. You know, some guys, you know, crank up a song. You know, we had speakers. We actually had speakers outside. Sometimes the guys would be blasting some music,

but it was no like a ritualistic thing where we all sat there, closed our eyes and listened to the same song at the same time. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. I mean. And you know what? I was, you know, I was either,

of my two combat deployments. I was a platoon commander. I was a task unit commander. So I was busy. You know, all that planning stuff that I'm talking about was, was me if I was going out.

If I wasn't going out, then I wasn't doing anything ritualistically to get ready to go out. Yeah. But you're busy. People don't understand how busy you are in combat, not just while you're on the battlefield,

but when you're back in the rear, preparing to go or preparing or planning for operations. Yeah. I would imagine some people, you know, because even the small, I mean, really, how far you want to stretch the word, like, ritual, right?

So the, I'm sure some people would, right? Maybe, like, get, like, a lucky thing or I don't know. Hey, people carried lots. Now you're getting into a different realm here. You're talking about superstition. Well, and you're also talking about, so I had certain patterns that I followed, right? But those patterns were not for my mental state. They were to be prepared.

Right, right, right. You know, I've talked about how I had to cot filled with my gear. And when I put all that gear on, I was ready. Yep. Right? That's that's that's that's and I put the gear on the same way every time because you're going through a process and a procedure so that you make sure you get everything right even when I'm coming to record the podcast I do the same thing every time. Yeah, I get this ready. I get that ready. I print the stuff out. I you know, I bring the same pens the same stupid pens. I bring them all time because I have a pattern I go through said I'm ready for what we're going to do. That's a standard operating procedure to be ready for the operation. Whether it gets me to mental state. Yeah, I guess it does get a little mental state and tech. And tech.

Technically, that is a ritual. Well, then I guess I'm busted. There you, no, no, not, no, you're the man. Of course, for sure, you're not busted. No, I think I am busted, because that is definitely a, a ritualistic thing to go through. And if I talk about being in combat, sure, you're getting your gear on, your zero, you know, you're programming, your radio, you're getting a radio check. But again, the reason it doesn't really hit me as a ritualistic thing, because those are, those are standard procedures that you're going to perform. prepare for the mission. You're not, they're physical things that have to be done. Yeah. They're not for

mental preparation. Now, does your mind know what's coming? Yes. And I'll tell you a classic example is when you put down your night vision, which for those of you don't understand this, you have a helmet on and you have night vision on it, it can flip up where you're just looking through your regular eyes. But then when you black out the vehicles and you flip your night vision down, you're in a different world. Yeah, yeah. You're in a green world of darkness where you know what's about to, you're about to do. So whenever I flip my, you know, night vision down, it would always give me a sensation. Again, it wasn't, this is preparing me. I knew that it was time, right?

There's a difference. There's a subtle difference. No difference. No, I'm sure there is a difference, but there's some, there's overlap there where I think that is. I mean, like I said, it depends how loose you want to use the word ritual, but technically, yeah, like remember you said one time, he said something about before you guys roll out. Everyone starts at the same time, ritual right there. And ritual, however, standard operating procedures. Yeah, it's a functional thing.

Like, you've got to put your night vision goggles down. You have to do that. It's what you're going to do. And when you do that, because you've done it a hundred times before, you know that that's now game on. But if you're just putting your night vision goggles down, that's not really the ritual. But if it's like, I'm going to put my night vision goggles down after I do this every single time,

that's a ritual. Or we all do it together. Like when it's repeated You're calling it a ritual You're putting a You're putting a ritualistic flavor to it It's a standard operating procedure It's a process

Right, but I'm saying It's not ritualistic Because there was no Embedded deeper meaning That was put on top of it purposely Right That's like a it's not very ceremonial We're trying to make it in some of it's not

Right Do you follow the same standard operating procedures? Yes So do you And, you know, when we talk about fighters, you know, I've been with a lot of fighters and coached them. And those guys have little ritualistic things to get, sometimes it is music, right? Because they're going to go fight a five-minute round and they're going to listen to something or they're going to sit there and close their eyes and think about what's important to them. That's fine.

I'm telling you, when I was overseas, I didn't have time to do any of that. When you were running around, never once did I say, stand by, hey, no one talked to me for the next three minutes while I get in the zone. No, I was in the zone because I spent my, you know, did a workup, did, spent my time in the teams, went through training, you know, shot my gun, knew what I was doing. Yeah. And so I didn't need to get in the zone. And I think that's what, I think that's why I think I'm sensitive to this. And here's why I think I'm sensitive to this. I think I'm sensitive to this because I think people try and and tell, tell people or sell people on the fact that if you do these things, it will prepare you mentally for.

for, you know, a pressure situation. And that's what bothers me about it. That's what bothers me about it is, hey, if you do this, if you, this is what it is, if you take this shortcut, then you will be prepared. Because I would never tell someone, oh, you want to fight an MMA fight, you're going to get in the cage, cool. Here's what you need to do to train for that. Three minutes before you enter the cage, go into a room, shut your eyes, and think about

how you're going to win the fight. That is not true. Now, I guess this is where you've just gotten this out of me, Echko. You took me to my point that I believe in, right? That is not what prepares you for the fight. What prepares you for the fight is the years and years of training that you've done to get there. The last three minutes, you can have a ritual and it can put your mind in the right place, but that's not what's putting your mind in the right place.

What's putting your mind in the right place is the months and months and years of training. Same thing with on the battlefield. If someone said, hey, I'm about to go execute a direct action mission, what should I do to prepare for that? I wouldn't say, well, what you need to do is listen to your favorite motorhead song. No, that is not going to help you. What you need to do is you need to do this. You need to go this shooting. You need to work on these type of tactics.

You need to understand what to do when someone gets wounded. You need to have standard operating procedures for how to go into and out of buildings. You need to understand how to clear rooms with open doors, closed doors, corner fed, all these different things that you need to know. I would tell you all of that stuff. But what I don't like is when someone says, oh, what you need to do to be ready is do this last fraction of a thing. And that's what's going to prepare you for combat.

No, not true. Yeah. What prepares you for combat, what prepares you for a fight, what prepares you for a tough business decision, what prepares you for a pressure scenario that you're going into, isn't the three minutes before. That's the icing on the cake.

So I don't want to focus on that. I want to focus on the daily disciplines for months and weeks and years that led you up to the point so that when I went in combat for the first time and and shot my gun for the first time It wasn't about the song that I listened to it wasn't about the breathing that I did it was the discipline and the training that got me there So maybe I was a little bit hard coming out of the gate on this idea But that's what that's why it was hard and I didn't really understand that in my own mind until you started bleating me down this road because that stuff does when I see somebody trying to sell that I don't like that yeah I don't like that do I have rituals yes I absolutely I mean I even have rituals for when I get up in the morning and what I do you know I I fill my water bottle my water bottle every night when I go to

bed is in the same spot when I get up out of bed in the morning my water bottle is there I put my you know I go very quietly in the bathroom we talk about this I do what I got to do in there I come out it's dark I grab my water bottle it's already where I know it's going to be I need to turn on any lights it's where it's supposed to be that's a ritual I go go to the kitchen, it's dark in the kitchen. I fill up the water bottle by sound because you know how this is a little beautiful sound as it fills up, it gets higher and higher and higher and then boom,

you kill it. Now I walk out, I flip on a light in the back of the house, put the shoes on because I'm not bothering anyone. So there's a little ritual there. When I walk up to the gym, plug in the music, and now it's time to get after it. So there's a ritual there. There's, there's, even when I go to the gym and do jiu-jitsu, I have a little ritual that I

follow there. I come in, I tape the fingers, I do what I got to do, For those of people that are going to ask, I tape the two fingers on my right hand, my pinky and my ring finger on my right hand because my pinkies got a little judo finger, right? So I tape those two together. And also gives me a little bit of that friction on the guillotine.

At least that's what I've told Echo to further intimidate and scare them up the guillotine. So there's some little ritualistic things there. If Dean's there, when I'll go in the sauna for five minutes and just get a little bit warm before he and he sees me sweating he doesn't like to see me sweating because he knows that that i'm it's on it's on right so i'll go in there just to send a little mental vibe to dean that

you know what jocco's already sweating he says damn so those ritualistic things those are the fraction the tiniest part of what you need to do to prepare the preparation the mindset doesn't come from those things you want to you want to close out that final bit and make it something ritualistic that gets you in the right mindset do it but the that is not where the money is made. The money is made and everything that leads up to those final three minutes or two minutes or five minutes of ritualistic behavior that you have to get you ready to rock and roll. So bring it.

What can we extrapolate there? So the question is no. Really? I mean, you maintain really because the question is do you do anything ritualistically to get yourself mentally prepared focus and proper mindset? So you don't. But you do do things that are rituals.

But that's not the question. This is one of the questions. So, you're, the rituals you're talking about in regards to... Oh, yeah. What rituals do I have?

What rituals did I have in, in preparing for combat? Training my ass off. Being prepared, studying the enemy, being in crop physical condition. Those are the rituals.

The rituals are the training. And the rituals, like I said, for the 20th time, that little tiny thing, those are just standard operating procedures. And when you do those ritualistically,

then you're then you number one you won't forget anything you'll know that you have all your gear you'll know that you've done what you're supposed to do and when you put your night vision goggles down you'll know that it's on straight and you'll be mentally prepared so your standard operating procedures are rituals by technicality sure sure there you go if for those of you that aren't watching this on youtube echo just looked extremely I'm proud of this statement right there. No, I wasn't proud of my statement. By second they are.

I'm proud, I'm proud that I had some influence of the real, I don't wanna completely beat a dead horse. Because, but what bothers me about that idea is people thinking they can cut corners on the preparation. You can't cut corners, that's my point. You can't cut corners and think you're gonna get the three minute preparation to be ready for combat,

to be ready for battle, you'll be ready for a pressure situation, to be ready for a pressure situation, tough business decision you don't get ready for that in three minutes you get ready for that for months and years that's how you prepare for it bro i was i used to play football at u h and we had this i don't know if you've watched like football camp no i'm no i'm laying down the set we already knew that though oh okay okay anyway so i was a wide receiver and for the drills you were a wide receiver i was a lot smaller back then i was like 180 180 whatever no no no

the last one of the drills was this um if you know football camp you'll know this it's like it's a motor on a big tripod and on the motor are these spinning tires and they spin this way there's two there's three of them so this they go on this weird skewed angle so basically you load a football from the back you and you push it through and it shoots the ball like yeah and there's different speeds and stuff like that so oh my coach what is his name coach miles forget if that was his first name or last name. Anyway, Coach Miles, he wasn't a very nice coach. So he would, like, drill us with it, right?

Which is fine. That part is cool because it's training, but the part that I think was very cool was if you missed, like there was, you would pay a price. Like, you'd yell at you. Sometimes, yeah, he'd make you run. Like, if you missed, it wasn't like, it was like, to me, the punishment, it was wrong. Like, the system was wrong there. The punishment didn't fit the crime?

Well, yeah, it wasn't like, this isn't going to make you better. to put more pressure on this drill, you know? It was more like, hey, look, hey. But he wants to cause stress. Okay, okay, good, good. I didn't feel that at the time. And now, I mean, I'd have to think about it more. I haven't thought about it.

Nowadays, your viewpoint would be different. Maybe, but maybe not, though. No, no, I don't think so. Only because I think that you're trying to get the best out of these people, you know, for a specific situation. But on game day, there's going to be a lot of pressure. And you can actually get used to that stress by inoculating yourself to it.

By him saying, look, you've got to, catch this ball or you're going to pay the man. Yeah or just get better at catching. So you can no no so you could focus on getting better at taking stress or getting better at catching. Okay. I will give you that. I will give you that. Now what I would say is that he should have combined both of them and he should have given you guys ample time to just practice the catching part and then later up the stress. Amen bro. That would have been great if he did that. Fact is he did not. So back to the ritual mental preparation, whatever. So that it would be stressful for me as a young I was like 17 when I started football.

I was, you know, late, anyway, so I'm like one of the young guys, and he'd, and so when he'd do stuff, like, to make it harder and harder and harder. So, of course you're going to miss. So there's this one where he's like, ball, and then, you know, you're supposed to turn around the ball's on its way. Full speed thing.

It's like, and the thing comes real hard. Anyway, so you'd miss, and then he'd get all mad. So anyway, I'm stressed now. There's not every practice I'm going in stress about that one drill that we're going to do. So before practice, we had this. cool, real, real nice facility. There's this lounge where everyone just kind of cruise and mellow out because you go, you know, from class to pre-practice prep and then some meetings and then practice. There's a little bit of downtime where you can mellow out in the lounge.

So in the lounge, I'd close my eyes a lot of the time and be like, just visualize that ball. Only for the drill. Not in scrimmage time. Scrimmage time, no problem. But I'm visually mentally preparing for the drill. I don't know. It just doesn't seem right. Anyway.

So. Yeah, mentally visualizing the ball coming at crazy speeds. And I'm catching them, and catch them all in my little visualization. So I go, and as time went on, I kept doing that over and over and over, didn't help the drill at all. Failed.

As far as any kind of fact, I would catch some and miss some, get yelled at more stress. Next day and even more stress. Same thing. Yeah, I would say this, first of all, visualization of a physical technique is proven to help. So it didn't help in your case. What I would have said would have been the most helpful for you is to say, you know what,

I don't care what this guy does to me. Yeah. I don't care if I miss this ball and I'm going to go out there and have fun. Yeah. And you want to do it? I'm going to act like a maniac. Yeah. I'm going to have such a good time running down the field.

And when he calls ball, I'm going to turn around and do my best to grab that thing. If I don't grab it, I'm going to do 14 somersaults and I'm going to have a good time. And so that would, you would take the pressure. off yourself because that's probably what was what was jamming you up as you like to say that was it and I'll say this too back to this whole idea right another thing that that I that I feel this sort of allergy to this type of thing is it's sort of like on the Tim Ferriss episode where I was just answering questions I asked about motivation and I said like look motivation isn't isn't your friend right motivation's gonna go up and down I feel like

You know, what's going to be good is discipline. Disciplines. And so there's really, that's the difference between what I'm talking about here. When we're talking about, hey, what do you do to get into mindset? Well, that's really talking about, you know, your mental mindset of motivation. No, but what I'm talking about is discipline, standard operating procedures that actually prepare you for what you're about to do. Not that motivate you temporarily by listening to a good song or by doing some breathing drill

that gets you mentally. But no, the discipline is what's going to make. you mentally prepared for what's about to happen. So again, that's why I think I'm a little bit stuck in the mud on this one. And I'm trying to have an open mind. But I think those are the key components for me. I don't like when people try and sell shortcuts on stuff and make it, you know, hey, you'll be great if you do these three minutes. No, actually, you won't.

You need to do everything else. You need to do the hard work. Yeah. And people buy into that. Why do they buy into that? Because they want to take. Everyone wants the quick and easy, you know? I mean, people that listen to this podcast don't.

Right? No. People that are here, we want to get in the game fully. Yeah, two hours, two hours in a book. Yes. Yeah. No shortcuts there. No shortcuts.

So I think that's the difference is people, some people sell that and there's too many people that buy into it when what they should be buying is, hey, hard work and dedication and discipline is what's going to mentally prepare me. Not this other stuff. Yeah. At the end. Yeah. So, yeah.

So really, like I said, the SOP by technicality. It's a ritual, but here's the thing about it being only technically a ritual Because if you take that away Not necessarily the SOP because that has a full-on function You know what to I hate to cut you off just to talk about what we just what we're talking about here, right? Because I said hey with the podcast and I've said this before we have a ritual that I do I you do it to When I come I brew the tea I'm put my my pens in I do the folder I print the stuff out I have put the knives in the bag I have a ritual that I go through

But to case and point, case and point, that is not what prepares me for the episode. That is not what prepares me for the recording. What prepares me for the recording is what is spending 10 hours, 12 hours, 15 hours, diving into a book, looking up words, I don't know, doing background studies on battles that I don't understand that are mentioned offhand, researching some general that gets mentioned. That's what prepares me. That's what gets me in the mindset to record a podcast. Not the ritual.

The ritual doesn't actually mean anything. anything without that core deep preparation that's done. And that kind of settles our point here. Yeah. I by no means. Very nicely. Yeah, I was going straight technical and you, I think you're absolutely correct.

And sometimes, because I would fall, like, especially when you're young, you're like, just anything that'll help me, you know, like, did I tie my shoes in the wrong, you know, like superstition goes in there? You know, that feeling where you're like, dang, you're just stressed about something. So anything that'll help.

And then after a while, you kind of go to yourself, man, it doesn't matter what order I put my shoes on right now. It doesn't matter what color my socks are right now, you know. Man, I used to have this thing where I'd be stressed to go to school for whatever it is, like intermediate skin, you know, when you're like a new school year, it's just a little bit stressed. Not full on, but still I was looking for little things. So is this weird, even thinking about it right now, it's so weird. So I'd have, you know, music in your car on a tape.

So I liked Bushwick Bill, who's a... this rapper and ghetto boys anyway. No idea. And it had a bunch of swearing in it, but it was just a great, great album and I liked it. But I had it strangely, in my mind, if I listen to like negative stuff,

I'd have a negative day. And some people might say like, well, that's kind of true. But no, I don't think so. I think it doesn't matter really what music you live. Maybe a certain music might put you in a certain mood, but that's up to you. Yeah, we're actually going in a whole other direction

which I'm fine with going there. I have always found that music to me, like the words in the music, I'm barely registering what they are. I know them. I might even be singing along with them in my mind, but the words generally aren't having a huge impact. I mean,

I've listened to all kinds of rock and roll music throughout my years. If I would have followed along with 10% of the lyrics, I would probably be a heroin addict. in the gun or somewhere, right? Because you can't just listen to the music and obey what they say. In fact, you shouldn't do that.

Most music is, a lot of music is negative, right? I mean, a lot of music is very negative in what it's saying. So, yeah, that... So what you're saying is the ritual of listening to the right music is important or not important? No, not important at all.

I'm just saying I used to, like, kind of... I don't want to say fall for that trick, but I was young as like an intermediate school. So you believed it. You believed... At the time. If you listen to negative music, you might have a negative day yes and not the kind not the kind where it's like i'm going to listen

to this and then i choose to go this will fire me up to do what it wasn't that it was a superstition is what it was and i'm saying my point for the whole thing is you don't like how people like basically hang their success or failure on some visualization or some ritual yes and agree that the point i'm making is i would have to like remind myself of that like man the music like nothing bad's going to happen to me because i listen to bushwick bill talk about this thing. I got you. I will say this, though,

that is a conscious decision that you made. Whereas if you were just listening to, I mean, music changes your mood. Music changes my mood for sure. When I hear a certain music, I get a certain reaction to it and I will get into a certain emotional state

from listening to a song that's about something or not something else, you know, that will have an effect on me. Now, I don't know that, my point is that the lyrics themselves don't really mean anything. I guess if they do mean something, though, and they hit me a certain way.

Music definitely will put you in a different mood, in my opinion. Yeah, if you let it. Like, if you're using it or something like that. I would say it puts you in a mood unless you don't let it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because if you just listen to it, now there's times where you listen to, you know, whatever music and it's just not going to hit you,

but some music that you might have a core thought about. Now, does this go back and negate my earlier point that music doesn't affect my mindset? Does that do it? Might, right? Now I'm going back on what I said Because I said, oh, music doesn't affect your mindset I guess I am going back.

Well, yeah, but ultimately I think I think really it holds up where you Yeah, look, the music mind Here's the deal. Here's the deal. You're going into a stressful combat situation And you didn't get a chance to listen to your song Can you afford to be like, oh no, I can't go?

No. So that's another reason why, yes, I'm staying with my original point. Yeah, I agree with you. Stick with that. Don't let anyone. way you. Don't let them. Still a ritual by technicality, though.

Jocko. Is this question number five now? Yep. Can you speak about winging it and when it's best to just go for it? And when making a plan, without the time to do so, is the best course. Okay. Yeah, I can definitely talk about that. Well, winging it is never the first choice.

and when you see people in the seal teams or in the military, if they're winging something, it's something that they've practiced a lot. It's something that they have planned broadly before, and they've so much experience in that, whatever that type of operation, that they can actually get away with it, right? And a good example, if you take a jihitsu example,

like Dean, Dean Lister, he can wing it in a match. Jeff Glover can do that to a ridiculous. this level of just winging it in competition and just show up and just do what he does because he's got you know those guys at that high level have a mental fluidity that's going to be very helpful for them now there's other people that are very high level jiu jitsu players that don't wing it that are very much more methodical and i'm sure there's some cases with both jeff and dean where they probably should have been more methodical but i mean jeff is straight up suicidal in many of his matches.

I mean, and that's what's beautiful is, is that he moves so much so rapidly that people can't hang with him on that level in most cases. So that's why he is winging it. Like every movement that he makes is winging it, but case and point, he puts himself in those situations all the time.

You come to the gym and watch him train, he's letting people put him in the worst possible situations and figuring a way out of it. So the reason he can wing it competitions because he's he's he's put a practice and discipline there in the background and if you saw my seal platoon or task unit we could wing it on operations all the time because we were prepared because we knew each other so well because we had standard operating procedures that covered so much of the things that would happen during an operation where we would be quote unquote winging it

so even though we're winging it we're not really winging it because we have all these standard standard operating procedures in place that we didn't really need to plan. But if you have time to plan, then of course plan. Do as much planning as you can. Dig in and plan every detail that you can plan. Now, when it does come to planning, I think the most important part of a plan, the thing that makes a plan the most effective is its flexibility. And making a plan that is so flexible that when you do the actual operation and you come up against unexpected things

which are absolutely going to happen, you have the flexibility, you have options, you have contingency plans to deal with. Now, so plan as much as you can. But the problem is, with all that emphasis on Planning, sometimes people become obsessed with planning. And they plan and they plan and they plan and they plan and they plan and they plan and they plan and they don't want to execute. And if they do execute, they execute late.

They missed their opportunity. So that's why that's why Patton said, I got this note written down here, Patton said a good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. Right? That's what we're talking about. come up with a good plan. Don't come up with a perfect plan that takes you two weeks to come up with. That's not going to help you.

That's something you need to keep in the front of your mind. And that is especially applicable in a tactical decision that's being made in the field. Right? Something that is unfolding. You see the enemy maneuvering.

You come up with a quick plan and you execute. Because every minute that you're waiting to execute, the enemy is maneuvering on you. That that, That lull in enemy fire, that's not them retreating and running away. No, your mindset has to be that that's them maneuvering on you. They're getting a better position. They're setting up, getting ready to crush you.

So don't let that happen. Make a plan and go. And that comes back again to flexibility. If you come up with a good plan and you go as that plan is being executed, you've got to pay attention. You've got to pay attention and watch how it's unfolding. Don't put the blinders on. And you've got your plan. and now we're going to go

and we're not going to look around anymore we're just going to follow the plan. No, you have to be observant. You have to observe, orient, decide, and act the whole time. You can't just come up with a plan and stay on that track because when you come up with a fast plan

you're not going to have thought about every single detail. And you don't know what the enemy is going to do anyways. You don't know what your competitor is going to do. You can't guarantee that. So when you see them start to react to your, what you executed, now you've got to be ready to react yourself

and get the upper hand and take the offensive. So there's one more, there's one more little dichotomy to this. And I'll just say it. Even though I'm saying you've got to adapt your plan and you need to adjust as things happen, you also want to stick to your plan. Those things are completely the opposite of each other, right?

I'm saying adapt and change your plan as needed, but I'm also telling you to stick to your plan. But for instance, if you rehearsed a or if you have a standard operating procedure for your order of patrol. So this is the order of, you know, the point man. And it's Jones and then Smith and then Washington and then Jefferson. And that's your order patrol, right? And those guys are always marching in that order. And so we know each other.

We know how to work together. We have fire team integrity. We have a standard operating procedure. And we're going to attack a target. And when we get closer to the target, we see that, hey, you know what, maybe it be better to move this guy over here and move this guy over here. And so let's change our standard order of March, our standard patrolling order, because it'll be easier when we get to the target. Don't do that. Don't do that.

You have your standard operating procedures for a reason. You have them. And when you start pulling yourself out of the standard operating procedures for no good. reason that's going to come back and bite you it's it's not going to work out good so be flexible this is going to be an interesting statement be flexible but stick to the plan but be ready to adjust but stick to the plan and that's totally contradictory and I know that and I apologize but that is what leadership is leadership is balancing those dichotomies and leadership is when hey we've stayed with our standard operating procedure we're going to hold

through it through this little thing right here you know there's been us there's a little small terrain feature we didn't expect we could change our plan right now and adapt to that in the unlikely event that or the the small chance that something happens and will be better for it at that moment no stay with your standard operating procedure but then when something dramatic happens and you need to make a change you do it aggressively you do it dynamically and then you continue to observe, orient, decide, and act, and keep beating the enemy inside the Oudaloupe. That's it.

Next question. Jocco. Yes. An echo. Oh. BJJX partner is training in another gym. Now my head coach banned him from coming back. Um, question.

So dojo loyalty versus freedom. Okay. What up? So there is some tradition behind this, actually. Yep. And the tradition is actually the tradition of the Crayonch. That's the name of the guy. So Crianci is a, it's a Brazilian word, and it's a name, right?

It's a name from a character in a Brazilian soap opera. You're looking at me like you didn't know that. Did you know this? I didn't know that. Oh, you didn't know this. I mean, I know Crionchch. Yeah, of course. Everyone knows Crionch.

in the Jiu-Jitsu. Crionchi came from, it's a character in a Brazilian soap opera that was like a backstabber. Like an unloyal guy. Yeah, yeah. And so when, especially back in the early days for me in Jiu-Jitsu,

which was pretty early days in America for Jiu-Jitsu, in the 90s, if anyone was going from gym to gym, or even left a gym permanently to go to another gym, they were labeled this horrible, word. It was the worst thing you could call somebody, right? It was a crayonch. Okay. Yeah, this guy's

a cronchy. And that meant that they were a traitor. Yeah. That's what it meant. And there's also, so that's, there's a tradition of it in jiu-jitsu, right? Of this idea that if you change gyms or you train at a different place, you're a cronch.

Now, there's a little backlash against that. There's people that have you know, as a matter of fact, we used to joke about being like Team Creonch as we were all, you know, training at different places and trying to find the best places to train. But there's beyond that, there's a, there's a martial arts kind of tradition as well, which is, you know, loyalty and gratitude to your instructor, right? That's a, that's a fairly understood tradition, not just in the martial arts, but in any arena where you're learning something from somebody that's putting their time and effort into you to instruct you in something. and there's also a practical level of reasoning behind this.

And that is competition. Yeah. Right. So if you're going to be competing and you compete with a guy at your gym that's got an unbelievable triangle and then somebody else comes from another school and they are basically rolling with that guy and they see he's got a really good triangle. Now you're in a competition against that guy and he tells his buddy, hey, that guy you're going to compete against he has a really good triangle. Watch out for his triangle. That can change the outcome of a match. Yeah, he knows the details of it, all that stuff.

That can change the outcome of a match. So there's a practical level to it. You know, there's also sharing moves, right? And if certain schools might have a really good series of moves or moves, and all of a sudden someone goes to, you know, train somewhere else, they can share that move. And that's bad. And, you know, what's interesting is in every business,

most businesses that I work with, I should say. they have their own little worlds, right? And they have their own kind of loyalty and creonchy. And if you're at, you pick an industry, people are good in that industry. When they change companies, they bring with them the same kind of thing. They bring maybe some secret sauce, maybe some moves, maybe they know some personalities. They know the weakness of that other company. So when they leave, there's a loyalty factor that comes into it.

Now, that being said, loyalty goes. both ways and I've talked about this before the student should be loyal right but the teacher has to be loyal as well that means they have to be teaching solid stuff that means they need to you know train correctly that means they need to offer enough classes all kinds of things right there the teacher owes some loyalty to the students and on top of that on top of that this is America right this is America and in America you pay to go to a school. You pay money, right?

It costs you money. And I always use this example when people ask me about this. In America, just because you normally get your pizza from dominoes doesn't mean that if you feel like it, you can't call up Little Caesars and have some coming kids. It's America. And if, guess what? If Little Caesars makes a better pizza, you're going to maybe order even more often.

So there's competition, right? and you want to end up where you get in the best pizza. And there's, so there's some advantages to looking for that good pizza. There's, there's, and there's some advantages to travel around and good training at different places because you're going to get different schools with different instructors that have different specialties and different styles. So that can be advantageous. There's also some disadvantages to school, like going. into a bunch of different schools. Number one is your teacher doesn't really know you.

So now your teacher doesn't know your style, doesn't know what moves would be good for you. They also don't see you progress because you're only coming back every once in a while or whatever they don't see you getting any better. And they're not, they're not really maybe as comfortable teaching you everything. Because you're not really their student.

And you know what, man, it is a, it's a powerful thing to teach someone jiu-jitsu. And it's an effort. And there's an emotional component to it. When you teach somebody, Jiu-Jitsu, there's an emotional thing. You're giving them something. Yeah.

And there's an emotional level in there somewhere that says, you know what? I'm giving you this. I'm not going to hold it over your head, but, you know, there's a little something there. I'm not going to say you owe me anything, but you owe me a little something, right? Wait, wait. Like what you, like, so I taught you this. So now you need to go. and not mess it up or you got to represent?

Or is it like don't use this to, I don't know. What do you mean? I think it's a little bit of both of, you know, I'm investing all this in you, right? Sure, you're giving me a hundred bucks a month. But what I'm giving you is worth more than a hundred bucks a month. Like, we know that, right? So give me something back.

What do I want back? I want you to train with me? You know what I mean? Just, hey, you're going to go to another school? And you're going to train there sometimes? I understand that. But oh, wait a second. Now I'm just your part-time teacher?

Okay, well, I'm not going to invest very much in you anymore. Right, yeah, yeah, I got you. So there's an emotional component to it. Now, again, back to the advantages because there's a dichotomy of everything, right? You're rolling with different people at different schools. Like I say, one thing that's nice about our school is we got different instructors with different styles. Yeah. I mean, between Dean and Jeff, they are literally at the opportunity.

The opposite end of the spectrums, which is freaking awesome to have. They're at the opposite end of the spectrums of the jiu jigsitou, right? They're just crazy different. They almost don't look like they're doing the same sport. And when I train with both of them, I don't feel like I'm doing the same sport. It's just a different, it's just a totally different game. But then you got James Nielsen, who's got his own style of jihitsu, which is insane. Greg Train, obviously.

You got him coming in hot. Who am I missing? Adam, he's teaching his own little different style. Who else? Jeff Reallel. Jeff Reall's got his badass game, fast. Me, I don't know what, I don't teach myself, but I'm sure that there's a different element there.

Yeah, but you coach up and stuff. Like people learn from you. I know, like a lot of stuff I learn from you, you know, and like you're like a tutelage, whatever. You know, like you train with Jeff all the time. You're going to learn some real creative dynamic stuff. You learn from Dean. you're going to, you know, learn a lot of stuff like in, you know, in that way.

So, so I think a lot of people still, even though you're not instructee, they do learn a lot from you. Yeah. And I do teach from time to time. But yes, I do. And I do when I teach, a lot of times when I am teaching, I might not be teaching the class. Right, right. But I'm saying, hey, buddy, check this out. Yeah.

Put your hips over here. You need to do it. So, so those are advantages. You know, if you were at a school with one instructor. Yeah. Then I could see where you'd be going, man. okay there could be an advantage if I go try some other instructors again there's a trade-off because now now you start learning something I actually see this more with striking

with with striking training where guys that move around from different coach different striking instructors a lot they don't it's not like jiu jitsu where you can incorporate it in and you learn something from some other guy you bring it into your game and you change it a little bit When I see people move striking coaches a lot, I see their game actually deteriorate, in my opinion, because striking is more instinctive. It's an instinctive thing, right? You're throwing your combos and you let them go. Like you let your combos go and you react. It's just something that happens.

It's more mechanical. So when you train mechanically to react and to throw your combos the way you're throwing them, and then all of a sudden you change that and you want to throw them a different way, I think it's, trips people up. I think it sends them backwards a little bit. Whereas Jiu-Jitsu, you can incorporate new games, different parts of games more fluidly. And also striking when you're training, striking. Jiu-Jitsu, sure, you learn

moves from your instructor, you learn some timing stuff, but it's like instruction. But then you have to train with a multitude, like all your training partners in Jiu-Zitsu, and that's part of your training. So if you go striking, it's not really like that. In fact, most

strikers, they'll stick with a one coach, And then they'll have a multitude of sparring partners. Yes. You know what I mean? So that changes. And jujitsu just by its own nature is already like that. Yeah. You know what I'm seeing?

Yeah. And when you spar against other people striking, though, your fundamental movements, they'll change a lot less than they will when you're rolling with different people. You're using more your body. Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're, there's just, striking is linear. Yeah, more than.

And jiu jih Tzu is completely not linear. So therefore, when you're training something that's linear and you're, you start going off that line, it trips you up, in my opinion. But with Jiu-J-2, it can be beneficial at times to train with some other people. Advantage is in different advantages. So I guess to get to this question, long-winded answer, one, you know, what is it? The head coach banned him from coming back. That's a bummer.

That's a bummer. I'm sorry to hear that. I've never banned anyone from our school for going and training in another school. I'm not intimidated by that, right? If someone goes, hey, I'm going to go train at this other school, I'm like, cool. And they come back because they get there and they go, okay, this is cool, but I'm going to come back to where we get this training that we have at victory, right? Which I'm comfortable with.

And if someone goes somewhere and goes, oh, I like this place better than victory, that's cool. Good luck. I mean, it's all, and, you know, in a year they come back and go, yeah, I'm coming back, you know. I don't get mad at them because everyone's on their own journey, I guess you could say. Everyone's finding their own path, and I'm not going to force people down a path. I might recommend a path, you know, I might say, you know, and I do that. You know, that's what we have the gym for. It's like, here's a path, man, and it's wide open.

It's a beautiful path with incredible jiu-jitsu practitioners. So I don't, I'm kind of bummed out. here you know that that happens but I do understand I think that's what if I was if I were in that position where I'm at a school and my training partner leaves and then he gets banned that I don't like that I don't like that yeah I think it's a bummer yeah I think so do I agree with and here everywhere is kind of different here is kind of a situation here in southern California especially in San Diego yeah we got the jiu jitsu everywhere everywhere yes So, and it's literally on every street corner in some cases.

Yeah, you can literally walk comfortably. It's like, what, one block to the next one. Yeah. And it's a good one too. That's the thing. Yeah. There's just schools everywhere. I'm sorry for those of you that live in the non-jujitsu parts of the world.

I'm sorry. We have a lot of judicature in San Diego. Yeah. We have like R.J. And Southern California in general. Orange County, L.A. is crazy. Yeah. So you figure in San Diego, what's going to kind of be a result of that is, like,

like our situation, for example. We have Dean, who's kind of the main guy who kind of came in with the school, right? Remember Dean had the small kind of school, into the boxing club, came to throw down, is what it was called, it became victory. But with Dean was like a bunch of guys, like you, Elias, James Nilsen, some other guys from Fabio Santos. And we all trained together. Elias was instructor, like all these guys. And then some guys went and opened their own school. Now, so not as a result of that whole situation.

Sure, we have other schools, but they're kind of still, our guys in a weird way, they're different things. So if I go train with Elias, which Johnny Faria, another one, he was my instructor for a little while,

I'll go train with Johnny sometimes. And then, is that a crayonchy situation? Yeah, I mean, even technically, is that a cronchy situation, though? Oh, you're asking me technically?

I would say, I would tell you this, back 10 years ago, yeah, that would be a major croncial situation. Is it right now for me? No.

You know, I want you to get better at Jiu-Jitsu. Right. You know, and if you got an opportunity to go, you're going to go train at another school, that's cool. Yeah.

Because it's, it's going to make you better. It doesn't, it doesn't offend me. You know what? I'm not a jealous husband. Right? I'm not jealous of,

of that. I don't think, oh, what if he goes and never come? I know where it's at, right? And so it's all good. You know who I'm coming home to. That's right.

that's right well I think the culture just in general shifting and I think this is this like in southern California is going to be more like this like way more laid back of course you get you know little little tiny little groups of people who still believe that

even though but really the community is like that in fact if you consider Studio 540 that's a Crayonchi gym yeah it's an actual they might as well be called Crayonchi capital all the way down to the instructors now Fabio Santos to teach there one day Fabio Santos has his own gym by the way Arizona Academy, by the way.

Same thing with the Higgs, like all. These are guys who came from other academies. And they invite whoever. And they actually have other academies. Yep. And you can go visit all the time. You know, everyone knows each other. So it's like the culture is different.

And I think, I think with our gym, it's not as, not as pronounced as that. But we definitely, I mean, people come in every day from all over. You know, how many different gyms were represented today for open mat. There was guys from all over San Diego, guys from all over the country. Victor Showing up from Seattle Trooper wanting to get his game on Right on

You know Ivan Salivary guy Yeah that's right Yeah, beast mode up there Yeah, he was good And that's the cool thing You said it, Dean said it He said I encourage you to go to other gyms

I mean not to be some weird spy But he's like bro, if you want to go get training Because I was going up to Eddie Bravo's This was a long time ago When he was at like Legends And I was going up there for work whatever And, you know, I knew about that. Or it's like, oh, is that kind of backstabbing if I go train.

What year was that? You didn't tell me that you were doing that. Actually, it wasn't about Eddie Brabizlone, but it was about something else. I did tell you. And he said the same thing. He was like, bro, you get as much training as you can. Yeah. You know, if you want to be a part of this, like, Association Academy or whatever, then that's

up to you. And I'm glad you're here or whatever. And I don't think personally that you're going to do it, but you're here to learn to learn jujitsu. Yeah. And if you can learn some jiu jihitsu over there, like more of a certain type than you can hear or anywhere fine go do it yeah he said the more judicious you learn the better so i was like that's a good quote from dean lister right there yeah the more jihitsu you learn

the better yeah and then and then so even to kind of go above and beyond that is when you okay let's say you know what i got to interject here is especially for some of these academies out there man jihitsu it it's like you're a doctor because you went through 10 years of school to get your black belt just like a doctor goes and what sucks is When you're a doctor, you make X amount of money. It's a very steady paycheck and you're kind of set. Jiu-jitsu doesn't mean anything. That black belt that you worked 10 years for doesn't get you paid.

So the reason I'm saying this is some of the people that are more defensive about this, if they're an instructor and they have a small academy, they need, you're financially supporting them. They worked hard to do that. They've invested in you, they're counting on you. So when you just go, ah, you know, I'm going to go train somewhere else. That not only does it hurt them emotionally, like I said, because man, when you put some effort into somebody, you feel like, oh, you're going to leave after I gave you all that. And you didn't give it to him because they paid, but you gave them the value that you get out of Jiu-Jitsu is not worth $100 a month. It's worth a thousand dollars a month. It's worth a ton of money. Keeling put that on his, uh, on, on some social media post that he because he got his black belt. And when he did, he's like, well, you're rich when you got something that money can't buy. And that's the truth. Right. Right.

But that black belt doesn't get you any money. It doesn't mean anything. So there's another component to this whole thing that if you're leaving and going to different schools and someone's thinking, oh man, I'm going to lose, you know, this is how I feed my. There's, you know, Jiu-Jitsu is, you want to become a jih Tjitsu instructor. You're generally not going to become a rich person, right? Not financially rich. So there's that component too. Now, luckily, we have a big gym and it's a little easier for guys to come and go.

You know we're not sweating it as bad. And yeah, so you got to keep that in mind as well that your coach that's poured more than what you've paid him. Yeah. Because I don't just want to say, hey, look, I'm paying for this instruction. So you owe it to me and I'll go do whatever I want. That's two base of a statement to make. You're right. Truly, Jiu Jitsu has more value than the $100 a month that you're paying for it.

Yeah. And you really, as a quote unquote customer or member, I mean, everyone's different. Sure, there's exceptions to this, but generally you don't want that anyway, even if you think you do. Like, I can be free to come and go. And technically you are free to come and go as you as you are. But don't think that like everyone's going to be just 100% fine with it all the time. Because when you come in, like I said, like it's kind of a two-way street. Or hopefully, I hope my coach takes pride in what he taught me.

For sure. I hope my coach is like, I care about how good you become. For sure. I hope he's not the guy who's like, give me the check. I'll teach my moves and who cares about how good you get. And I don't want that guy. You don't want that guy. Yep.

So there is that. And so that makes sense. It is that too-ish street. But as a competitor or a practitioner, a guy learning, so that's a student, especially when you reach a certain level and you've been training with kind of the same, even like 20, 25 guys, we'll say. You've been training with these same 20, which is a lot of guys, by the way, to always train with. You've been training with them for, I don't know, whatever, eight years.

We'll say and then you go to another gym man that's a way different look so it's like fresh brand new types of training You know oh it's like you're almost going to competition But you're not competing because when you compete you get to go against people you've never trained with it before Yeah so yeah different guys different and that's aside from even the different techniques you know what I find when I go in those situations when I when I train with somebody that doesn't I don't train with all the time It's you you feel a lot better at jiu jiu jitsu because they don't because they don't know your game Yeah, you know your game and you you know you know You know, everyone's got their own little special thing. So I always feel like a little bit better when I go.

Yeah. See, and that's part of my point where if you train the 25 guys, those 25 guys, they know your game. And not to say it's not good training, it's good training, but they know your game. So it may not be as accurate as far as like competition or something like that after a while. So when you go to these new places, you get, that's an additional layer of training you get. Yeah. You know, another subject on this is it kind of always bummed me out when I would hear from my jiu-jitsu friends. that have we've been in San Diego for 20 something years and all of a sudden be like oh we can't

come to your school because our instructor doesn't want us to and I always be like bro yeah so so that's like I wouldn't tell somebody that I'm not trying to control people yeah and that bums me out so that actually brings up another subject that I feel like I have to talk about because we got a lot of people out there that are starting jiu jiu jitsu for the first time a lot of troopers that are getting in the jujitsu game, which is awesome. It's awesome. And I get a lot of people saying, oh, what school should I train at in wherever? Throw a dart at a map in America, and that's what they're asking me about.

First of all those instructors. Now, generally, you know, somebody that does jujitsu will look at a website and see what a guy's credentials are and say, yeah, that guy looks like a legit black belt or a legit brown belt. Or even a guy asked me the other day, is it worth learning from a purple belt if there's no one else around? I'm like, absolutely. Absolutely. So, but people ask me about these schools, and I kind of give them my best guess. Like, you know, I'll take a look at the website and, you know, see if there's a black box.

You don't need to ask me, by the way. Google, look at their record, make sure that they do Brazilian jiu-jitsu, not some other form of jiu-jitsu. Just, you can figure it out. You don't need, you can go to the school and assess. But what I want, the main point that I wanted to bring up isn't that. It's just this part here. is that being into Jiu-Jitsu doesn't mean that a person is a good person. And being a black belt in Jiu-Jitsu doesn't have anything to do with their character as a person.

And I hate to say that. And there is a level of to be a black belt in Jiu-Jitsu. Sure, you could say in general it means you're a command. committed person. In general, it means you're a hardworking person. In general, it means that you've been humbled by your experiences on the mat, in general. But it is no way a fact. And there are people in the jiu jitzu game that are swindlers and thieves and they're untrustworthy. And there's black belts in jiu jitsu that can be bullies. and there's people in jiu jitsu that can be predators and you know jiu jitsu it's a power and sometimes

people that are power hungry recognize that power and they pursue the gaining of jiu jitsu power and then they abuse that power so like any abusive situation where one person has a perceived power over another person, it can get very ugly and there's all kinds of abuses that I've seen take place over the years in the Jiu-Jitsu world, financial abuses, physical abuse and even sexual abuse. So I just wanted to get that out there.

That being a Jiu-Jitsu, black belt, brown belt, purple belt, blue belt, white belt, doesn't make someone a good person. So you need to be careful. Jiu-Jit-to doesn't make you a God and it certainly doesn't make you a saint, but it does give you power and everybody has to recognize

that there's people out there that are, their goal is to abuse power. And I think the same thing goes with any glorified position in life. You know, and I actually see that sometimes with, you know, a standing, a company a being a veteran like being a veteran doesn't mean that you're a saint by any stretch

of the imagination being a seal right I know a lot of seals and there's plenty of seals they got out of the seal teams and they're upstanding awesome citizens but there's also scoundrels and miscreants and swindlers like I said and they're using the seal name that they have to promote themselves and to take advantage of other people. So keep your guard up. Keep your guard up and make sure you judge people, not based on what jih Tzu belt they have. Or what veteran status it is that they brag about,

but who they are as a person. And I just wanted to get that out there because we sit here and talk about jiu jitsu, and there's so many great people in jih Tijitsu, man. It's wonderful. You roll into something, you see somebody with cauliflower ears and you start talking to them. It's great. And you, you know, there's just a bunch of great people.

I mean, we were on the map today for two hours, you know. And we trained for an hour and 15 minutes and they were just hanging out, just talking because that's what we do. And we're talking about everything. And so there's great people in Jiu-Jitsu. It's a great family situation. But you do have to be careful. it is not a blanket

blanket statement that's because someone's a jiu jit-to, black belt, for instance, that they are a trustworthy person because there's some scumbags out there. Yeah, man, and that can, and the fact that, and I talk to Brady about this

every once in a while where you go in jiu-jitsu and it seems like everyone just identifies with each other. And later on you find out, oh, shoot, that guy's like a lawyer and that guy's a doctor or that guy's like a different religion that guy's a plumber.

and that guys or whatever and this person's from this area and we all just get along on the yep everyone gets along and the black belt he has so much like he tumble like for the most part it's pretty you know everyone's really good in jiu jitza for the most part right and that's why you can kind especially if you're kind of new or maybe like the first year or something like that where you're going around and dang my whole year of jiu jitsu has been great people come on the man and oh my gosh all my new friends that's a big one man all my new friends is so cool and i got this whole thing. It's like your whole life is better.

And then so your guard is down in almost like a conditioning way. Yeah. You're just like, hey, if you're into Jujitsu, you must be dope in every way. And then you get these like outliers that they're in the game, you know? And they take advantage like they're or they can, you know? They can for sure. But yeah, you got to always kind of watch out for that kind. Yep.

So just if your spider senses are going up or first of all, turn them on. Yeah, turn them on. Turn them on. And if they go up, start to maybe ask more questions than you are. and don't get yourself in a situation where you know you're going to regret what's going on because you believed that someone was a good person because they had some status that you consider to be an honorable status you know hate to say it man I hate to I hate to have to uh kind of bring that bring all that all that jihitsu down in this you know there's and I'll tell you something else there's aspects of jiu jitsu where people lose their minds right they get crazy and you know some of it you know with the whole school thing we just talked about where people People start going crazy about who owns students. Right? No, like, no.

I don't own any students. I'm happy to have people that train at my gym. And I'm happy to work with them and train them. I don't own anybody, right? And there's people that get that crazy. There's people that get crazy parents that go psycho on their kids. I know. And go level seven, you know, living vicariously through their kids.

and push their kids till their kids hate Jiu-Jitsu. And I'll tell you, I pushed my kids too hard when they were younger, for sure. That's looking back, you know, everyone was the big parenting advice

from Jocko, man, I pushed my kids too hard. I made them compete too much, made them compete in harder brackets, older kids, heavier kids all the time. And it made Jiu-Jitsu not fun. But I didn't break them mentally from that.

So you got to be careful that. You got to be careful of the whole, you got to be careful of, Jiu-jitsu is a power and it's really easy to get suckered into the point where you feel like you should exercise your power over other people on the mats or otherwise

You know, if you ever Going to the gym and it's making you feel really good to tap everyone out Like you're feeling better than them Yeah, just start to check yourself man Because that's not helping you Because there's someone out there that can tap you There's someone else and if you're taking those abuses out on other people So again, to begin

beginners in jujitsu it's you're gonna get tapped out you're gonna get tapped out a lot but there shouldn't be anyone that is smashing you and abusing you that's a much higher belt than you right you know another white belt might not even get that yet they're just happy they're submitting you right but anyone that's been around a little bit more they should be you you should feel like hey that guy just he didn't abuse me yeah she didn't abuse me she just beat me and i know what happened and it's cool. Yeah. And even that,

that's kind of weird and interesting too, where abuse can come in weird different forms too, you know? Like if, because there's a difference, okay, so like Jeff Glover, for example,

if you, if Jeff Glover is, because he has fun when he rolls, that's a big part of his game. And let's say, oh, I'm a new white belt, maybe,

you know, and I come and roll against Jeff Glover and he, and let's say it's a, I don't know, six minute round and just in training and Jeff taps him out. 25 times

that's not that's not abuse no no you're just he's just doing some mission hold on you he's doing his thing or whatever if someone's like grinding you and doing you know abusing you or trying to make you look stupid

or something like that because like oh yeah I know jujit you don't kind of thing or maybe there's some girls that he's trying to pray then that starts to get into abuse but don't ever watch me and dean roll because when one of us is having a good day and the other one's having a bad day

it's straight up abusive right but that's It's you and Dean. We have fun, though. And you'll notice that when you establish, like, solid training partners, that becomes part of the game. I'm going to try to abuse you. And so that's different.

That's what I mean by so dynamic as far as, like, recognizing what abuse is. Because if you get tapped out 25 times, and it seems like, dang, you didn't have to, like, go black belt on him. He's a white belt. Well, yeah, he went black belt on him, but he wasn't abusing him. You know what I mean? That's like that's well within the confines of the game, you know? For sure.

There's a big difference between that. I know this, to translate this for people that don't do Jiu-Jitsu, yet, uh, think about also this with any status structure, right? In work, in the military,

in, in the hierarchy of any company or industry, where if you're feeling good about bossing people around, yeah, you're doing something wrong, man. Yeah. You're doing something wrong.

If your goal, of what you're doing is based on you if you're saying, look, I'm going to be the best and I'm going to be this is what's important to me.

If that's what you're saying as a leader, put yourself in check because that's just pure ego coming out. When you're saying, look, I want to be the best in this. And I think there's a weird thing that happens with people that are go-getters and they hear someone that's a go-getter.

They'll hear some person that's been successful in business. And that person that's been successful in business will be like, you know what? I said I was going to be the best, and here I am, I'm the best. You've got to set your goals, you've got to put them out there, and you've got to let everyone know

that you're going to run them over if you get in your way. And that sounds really cool. And I guarantee, if you went back and you followed that person through their career, they were not like that. They were politically sensitive. They understood other people's needs They didn't go hey nice to meet you

I'm gonna take over this business No, they didn't do that They said hey nice to meet you how you doing What are we trying to make happen here? They made it a goal for the team Even if the deep underlying goal is a is a selfish one let's say The outer goal Should not be that

It should not be hey I'm gonna be the best I'm gonna be the ruler of this company I'm gonna be no we don't want to hear that Like when you you know I just take all I want to be the president of the United States. Who wants that person to be president of the United States? I sure don't. I don't want that person in the president of the United States.

If someone says, I'm going to be the CEO of this company. Now, what do you think of that? You think, okay, so this person's ego is really, really big. And you think yourself, you know what? I don't like that. You need to put that. So if that's your attitude and you think you're being fired up, keep that goal internal.

Don't be announcing that goal. state your goals and let the world know you're here. No. Because you sound like an egomaniac. What you should say is like, you know what I want to do with this company? I want to help this company grow the best I can. And you know what's important to be about being in a leadership position? What's important to me about being in a leadership position is making sure that the people underneath me, they get better and they reach their goals.

This isn't about me. This is about the people that are on my team. And I want to make them successful. Now, who wants to work for that person? I do. Sign me up. But when I say, hey, boss, nice to meet you. What's your goal here at the company?

My goal is to be CEO. Yeah, to be the boss. So you're going to step on my back to get there. Sounds like fun. Don't sign me up for that guy. I don't want to work with that person. I want to work with somebody that's about the team. And I don't want to work with somebody that's going to be abusive.

Just like I don't want to train at anybody's Jiu-Jitsu Academy. That's going to have that abusive mentality. And they're out there. So I wanted to tie that back into the business world. I'm the instructor. I'm the instructor. I'm your instructor. You don't go to no place.

It's like Napoleon Dynamite. You know, bow to your sensei. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They make fun of that. And it's funny. And there's, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. There's a lot of tradition in jiu jiu jitzu as well. You know, you bow to your instructor.

You bow when you come on and off the mat. Yeah, that's different. I'm not super into that stuff. You know what I mean? I'm laid back. You know, I'm pretty laid back when it comes to the jihitsu tradition. Yeah, most of the bowing to the instructor in Jiu-Jitsu is more like it's like bow to Jiu-Jitsu almost like and not bow like bow down It's more it's like show respect like if you go to even more traditional schools

Even when Morango was teaching at our school You know you bow to all the instructors because they're the ones providing the jiu-jitsu and then you bow to Helio Gracie Because he's the one who kind of provide you know so it's more about the Jiu-Jitsu Yeah, yeah Not like bow to your sense it doesn't have that feel and you got to make sure that you're not getting that crossover yeah it goes from hey bow to jiu-jitsu and pay respect to a beautiful thing yeah to bow to me yes and it's the same thing in the business world if you're saying look there's nothing wrong with treating your CEO with respect and your CEO should be treated with respect or your boss you treat

your boss with respect absolutely like hey boss what do you need me to do hey sir in the military you know you call those senior officers sir there's there's nothing you shouldn't feel degraded by doing that but for instance in the military If it's like, hey, you call me, sir. You know, okay, I see what I'm dealing with here. In the business world, if people are, you know, if you as an individual are thinking, you better show me the respect I deserve. You got issues.

You got issues. You got to earn that respect. If someone's not giving you respect, don't look at them and demand it. Look at yourself and demand that you become a better leader where they give you the respect not because you asked for it but because you deserved it yeah yeah there's a big difference that's funny man give me the respect i deserve give me the respect i deserve most of the time most not the time most of the time when someone says give me the respect i deserve it's when they are being given the respect they deserve which is probably not most of the time when people are saying give me

the respect i deserve they're asking for yeah they need to get their head together awesome we got time for one more. That's one. Jocko, I have had a few rough months. Some setbacks at work that hurt me financially, which is stressed out my family. I'm laid on some payments. I'm falling further behind at work. I don't want to tap out, but I just don't know where to start.

Well, you know what? That's just kind of the way that life works sometimes. it's it's Murphy's law when things go wrong they always seem to happen at once and they just compound on top of each other and it's it's pretty easy sometimes to to feel beaten when you're faced with all those issues and all those problems and they all hit you at the same time but let me tell you that that doesn't mean give up in fact it means the opposite it means it's time for you to fight harder to dig in means it's time for you to go on the war path and that starts with one of the fundamental laws of combat leadership prioritize and execute what's the biggest problem

what's causing the most stress family okay sit them down explain where you are at be blunt be up front and then give them the simple plan of how you're going to get things back on track don't sugarcoat it you give it to them straight next you got some some late payments creditors up. Explain to them what's going on, set up some kind of a minimum payment plan so you can start making some progress and get them off your back. And then you've got your job, right? You're falling behind at work.

Okay, talk to your boss. Face it. Tell him that you're going to step up your game. Tell him you're going to be at work early. You're going to be at work late. You're going to be at work during lunch. You're going to be wherever. you need to be whenever he needs you to be there tell him you're going to get after it and tell him that

you're a hundred percent committed to supporting him and the company and the mission and then you get started and i'm going to tell you right now it won't be easy it will be hard because life is hard that's what life is and these challenges these challenges that you face they're going to do their best to take you down do not let them stand up dig in line up those problems and confront them face them fight them do not let them In fact, let those challenges raise you up. Let them elevate you. Let their demands and their trials make you stronger.

Let the adversity you face today turn you into a better person tomorrow. So in the future, you look back at these struggles and you say to them thank you you made me better and i think that's all i've got for tonight so echo let's close it on out how can everyone get on board with the program here and and support the little podcast we got going enforcement not reinforcements enforcement. So, indeed.

A few ways. First, on top of supporting this podcast, you're going to want to support yourself, I think. Supplementation. We always talk about this. I know, I know. Anyway, on it has the best supplements. We all know this. Crill oil.

Got my krill oil in. Echoes in the game. Actually, I'm staying on it every month. Anyway, so on it. Onit.com slash jaco 10% off. So supplement your wallet as well. So the krill oil, that's for your joints, warrior bars as well.

I think that one's a good one. Shroom tech. Yeah. Shroom tech. Shroom tech is kind of, okay, so. Victor was talking about it. He's like, I'm on Shroom Tech today. He was all fired up.

Yeah, so tell me what you think about this. So I used to take Shroom Tech all the time and be like, and I felt like it kind of. and I felt like it kind of gave me an advantage. Because you know how cardio conditioning and stuff is a tool in Jiu-Jitsu or can be if you use it? Do you think that's an advantage? Do I think cardio is an advantage? Do you think taking Shroom Tech is like, oh, he took Shroom Tech doesn't count?

Because I took Shroom Tech and tapped out someone who I don't tap up. There's two ways to look at that. Well, I'll tell you what. Shroom tech is really good. Shroom tech did not make you tap out the person that you tapped out. But indirectly, it could have. Okay. So I guess the answer to this would be Since you were able with shroom tech to do more

It's pushing you harder so you're stepping up your game overall Yeah, I'm allowed to train better Because you can train harder because of your shroom tech Yeah So it is as far as I'm concerned Permissible to do that because you're just trying to get yourself better And shroom tech helps you do that Yeah

Now you might have to give a caveat Put this little asterisk next to your tap out I was on the shroom tech So it's you know Quite there. That's like a wind. And today when we got done training, I was like, you know, I didn't take any shroom tech today. So maybe, you know, and you were like, I either did.

And so I said, okay, it was a level of playing field. Even Stephen, yeah, the, it's like when you run the 100 meter dash and the wind, there's a strong wind, like you'll get the record, but there's a star there. Astro says wind aided record. Oh, really? It says wind aided. Yeah, still your record, but it's wind aided. Everyone knows that. Yeah, they try and do you like that.

So, yeah, when you get your Shroom Tech and you set your PR in, you know, in like, you know, a Wad or something like this, you got to put the star there. I don't know, man, but I was on the Shroom Tech. Yeah, maybe, maybe. You don't have to do that. I wouldn't do that. Maybe. I don't know. But you might.

Anyway, nonetheless, Shroom Tech sport, though. There's two. There's Shroom Tech. What's the other one? There's Shroom Tech something else. I'm talking about the support. Oh, it's not. It's immune.

Yes, yes. Immune. Yeah. I take a sport. Yeah. Luckily, I haven't had to take the immune, yeah. But no, that's for general immunity, right? That should boost the thing.

But anyway, that one probably not a P. Performance Enhancing supplement. Maybe it is indirectly. Anyway, on it, uh, it's different on it. Get 10% off on it.com slash jaco. Take the alpha brain to think a little better. Like it makes you think it's proven, by the way. That's saying a lot.

It's legitimately proven. Not like the 19%. The 19% is pretty legitimately. prove as far as I know so Cole Miller coal Miller UFC fighter Mike best I mean I got an email today got his rash guard uh you know he just started jiu jitsu like you know a lot of us have been and so he emails me and says I was going to bring the email and read it it's like short so he's like um he's like hey man I I tapped up my jiu jizu journey is going awesome uh I tapped out my first blue belt today dang and he said guess what I was wearing

I said, I'm not going to attribute it to the rash guard. Specifically. But let's face it, it was the rash guard. Okay, so that being said, there's some trooper rash guards on jocco store.com. I redid the website, by the way. Not much in effect is just kind of redone. Nonetheless, there's rash guards on there. They're cool.

They improve your performance, 19%. I guess, I mean, apparently 19 to 35%. Really, that's the range. range evidently. Anyway, cool rash guards. You can check those out. Jocco store.com. There's some shirts there.

Two. Was that you telling me that you saw someone with a shirt on? No, no. Victor, Victor, was saying. Oh, yeah, about someone.

And that's the thing when, and I said this before, of course. So, you know, if you listen, you know, that I try to put more than just the one layer on the shirt. It's kind of, there's a bunch of inside stuff.

Actually, you talking about the layers on the shirts, it started to become a thing. I'm telling, no, I'm saying, because you know why it's starting to become a thing? Because it is a thing. So, you're going to have to, like, on some future shirt,

you'd have to actually put the word layers. Yeah, layer, layer one. Yeah. That might be dope. It might be. Either way, he was saying how he recognized the shirt. And when you see someone else wearing, like, you know they know. Well, yeah.

So it's not like you see a quicksilver shirt. No. And it's like, hey, I'm wearing Christmas. There's no connection. You know what I mean? It's different. There's way different. There's no connection.

stuff you know if you listen you know you're like oh anyway check them out if you like them go grab one you can support that way and force um and then amazon click through what that it does is anytime you shop on amazon just click through on our website jocco podcast dot com or the store there's a little section there uh people can do a lot of christmas and holiday shopping yeah so if you really want to get your support on if you want to support in the game full speed What I like about that one is it doesn't cost anybody anything. It doesn't. It just supports the podcast while you're doing your normal stuff.

So that's awesome. And it's appreciated. Yeah, man. I guess, I mean, the key there really is to remember to click through before you go shop. That's it. Anyway, it's a good way to support the Amazon. So, yeah, on the website again, you just click on the Amazon link before you do shopping. Then boom, support actively, efficiently.

Solid. And then, of course, subscribe on iTunes. on the iTunes or Stitcher. And there's some other like Google Play is now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Google Play. Yeah, that's a bunch of those little podcast apps. But yeah, be a subscriber, man. In the game, straight up.

Write a review on the, maybe this is, I don't know what this is. It's just one of those things. We're at like 900 something reviews. Oh, yeah. So of course, you're OCD. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm gonna go home and write 100 reviews tonight myself and get to a thousand. Yeah

A thousand reviews Yeah I mean I know What's good about it Is it is If you wrote a review I read it

I've read it I've read all the reviews That are on there And it's cool Because It's good feedback And it lets us know That people are listening

And that they're in the game Yeah Which is cool That is funny And I want to get to a thousand For no good reason I know that That's funny

Yeah Is that ego? Is that ego You think Or maybe OCD or both because you know how like you're like I don't you know how like when you pump the gas you know and you're like I'm gonna I'm gonna get if you're not filling up you're like I'm gonna get right on the $20 market it's like it's a weird thing anyway it's something like that um you know you know like people they'll celebrate hey I got to you know a thousand subscribers or whatever you know people they'll celebrate and they'll post it and be like why didn't you celebrate at like a thousand one or nine nine oh see when I get to a thousand I won't celebrate anything I'll be like I need to get to 2000 And it's not even anything I can stop from my own brain thinking. It just thinks that way.

Yeah. So, yeah, so your thing is like different. Yeah, just like it's almost like a score. And I go, oh, well, what's my score right now? Right now it's 923. Yeah. I want my score to be a thousand. Why?

I have no good reason. Yeah. I'm stupid. Yeah. Nonetheless, subscribe. That's how you can support. And YouTube, subscribe to that, you know? If you're down, if you're into YouTube and watching videos,

subscribe to that. I think I'm going to put out another one here pretty soon. Yeah, we hear that quite a bit. We are going to put out another one. We hear that a lot. I know. You know, hey, it kind of like the email list. You know how like, oh, okay, I'll talk about it a second.

But you know, like the email list, you sign up, the insiders list. You should sign up. And be like, hey, I'll send you, you know, we'll send you some stuff. We're not going to send you stuff every day. It's kind of like the YouTube. Hey, I'm going to put more videos. Maybe not every week, but, you know, there will be more than zero. You're playing hard to get, basically, is what I'm here?

No. Meanwhile, on my end, people are like, hey, Jocko, keep making a podcast every week. I say, okay, cool, I do it. Your end, they tell you, hey, Echo, can you make some more videos? And you're like, you know what?

Yeah, yeah. They can, they can wait. No. Damn, that's the artist in you. No, no, no, that's not. That's the artist right there. I'll, yeah. We'll do some more videos.

How about that? We are all sitting here, holding our breath there, Echo Charles, for you to make more videos. I see what you're doing. You guys are like, I'm stroking my egos. like oh we're waiting for your next video whatever and I'm like yes they're waiting

for my video I'm going to put on the video be like yes I want my video guys and you like have you ever made a video that you got done and you said I'm not even going to release this thing because it's too bad yes I have a whole series oh yeah bro I'm telling you but and we it's yeah there's like one of them's called four people you find on Facebook and like

Conan's in it it's like the people who take one of them is like the people who take pictures of themselves but they want to to act like they're taking a picture of something, you know, but it's like, I don't know, it's like this thing and it just didn't come out good. Anyway, nonetheless, yeah, I am very weary of these things. Anyway, so yeah, support that way. Back to the store, Jocco store.

There's some new stuff. Is it annoying to sit here and talk about, like, this stuff right here? No, I don't think so. I mean, if I didn't have Debbie and everyone's saying, where's the girl stuff? we're, you know, and they're just like, all right, you know, like not saying anything. This is the thing. So just so I think about it, like I always think like, okay, we can probably cut this, you know, hey, let's just run through, you know, how to support the podcast.

It should take three minutes. For some reason, it turns into a 15 minute conversation. Yeah. And I don't, I don't, it's, I never intend to do that. And then when I listen to it, I actually laugh at most of it. And I think it's pretty funny. So I don't know. Well, maybe we should do like a two-hour podcast of us just talking about how to support the podcast.

Because it might be pretty funny because you're laughing right. now I was laughing a second ago and maybe that'd be the greatest topic ever okay so in that regard I'm not saying this is proof but this is evidence and this happened more than once by the way so you know a guy will order a shirt and it's online so you can't try on the shirts so people be like hey well you know what's shirt sizes or whatever and they'll say hey I need a bigger size or I don't know I got to change my address or something where you know they require another shirt Yep. So there'd be times I'd be like, oh, I'll just send it to you.

Like it got lost in the mail, whatever. I'll just send it. So I just send it. And they're like, no, no, no. Here, this is what it was too. And that happened before. But here's a very specific one I'm thinking about where I sent apparently two shirts. They got two shirts.

They were supposed to get one? They're supposed to get one. Okay. Yeah. And they were like, I got two shirts. I'm keeping them. Tell me where to pay. Tell me how I can pay because you can't go and click another.

you know it'll go in the orders and you tell me where i can pay i was like i keep the shirt that that's all you know give it to somebody and they're like i demand to pay like part of the reason is to support this the podcast you know yeah so and i'm kind of like dang there are enforcements out there who embrace the reinforcing that's why that's why i think that's why i think this is relevant well yeah well i guess my point is is that when we're talking about this stuff what should be a 30 second thing turns into a 15 minute thing like it's happening right now and when i listen to the podcast and i'll start going oh here come the advertisements i got to make a note to say shorten these down and then i say oh you know what that was actually funny as hell so i don't know maybe i'm maybe i'm just

ultra sensitive yeah maybe just like the ritual thing maybe dug in so what were you saying the store yeah the store so hey there's there's some new stuff it's the first time where I'm saying it publicly but there's hoodies and they're pretty cool apparently that's what people have been saying you know Joko said so good I like them also I redid

the patches where they're FD you know how JP last week said federal dark earth apparently it's flat dark earth okay not to be confused with flat earth that's people when people think the earth is flat we don't want Eddie Bravo to

get fired up about being flat Does he think that? No Is that one of his conspiracy things that he believes in? Oh, I don't think so, no. He believes in all kinds of crazy conspiracies. How do you know? How do you know?

I don't, man, I'm not going to argue. I'm not going to argue any of that stuff with any of the problem. I don't want to. I'll talk to Rubber Guard about it with him. I don't want to talk about nothing else, man. That's too, he's got too many facts and figures about stuff. You know,

facts and figures about all kinds of conspiracy stuff that I don't want to argue with. Yeah, it's I'll I'm good with him being in that world I don't want to enter that world I'm staying out of that world Yeah You know why? Because I guess I'm too blind to see the reality Yeah, you're not well

Okay, I'm just stay blind on that stuff You're all good But the so flat dark earth is a color So we got it's the official one where if you know Is it three? Is it three by three? Two by three Okay, so anyway So that's coming as far as the new stuff on jocco store.com

Nice So yeah look at that joccozor.com Look at the stuff on there If you like it, go grab one. You can enforce, reinforce, and support this podcast that way. Which is awesome. Appreciate it. You can also get some jaco white tea, which I've been drinking liberally all night long,

and I'm feeling pretty good right now. How do you have some because we're out? Yeah, well, so I got massive quantities. I actually told our supplier, we will never run out of this again. How do we make that happen? And they told me how to make it happen. so it's going to be back in Amazon directly and we will never run out of it again

that's my hope I ordered a lot of it I ordered a lot of it because I didn't know that people were going to be so into it and then I realized because you know sometimes you're in a bubble yes and you think something's really cool and no one else does I have been in that bubble many times in my life

where I thought something was really cool and then I get outside the bubble and people don't think it's cool my whole life so I was under suspicion that this situation where I like this tea, this random tea, and then I got it tweaked to my specific liking and I thought, well, okay, not only have I taken a random thing and then I've tweaked it to be specifically what I like, I'm thinking to myself like, what seven people in the world are going to dig this? Well, what I should have done was taking it

and giving it to a bunch of people and said, hey, is this, what do you think of this? And they, because by the time we did that, we basically did that and you realize that it It tastes really, really good. It's a unique flavorful taste. And I think that's like part one is that it tastes really good. It doesn't taste like anything else. It's just got a very, it doesn't taste like a juice. It doesn't taste like a tea.

What does it taste like? It just tastes like it. It tastes like what it tastes like and it tastes good. And universally, universally people go, oh yeah, that's, that tastes great. It's just a universally good tasting thing. And then on top of that, You get the microdose of caffeine. Just the microdose.

So it's this thing that just comes in subsurface and just gives it to you. But it doesn't override your normal senses. And then on top of that, you got the antioxidant thing, which for all I know, it's just repairing and taking care of your body, right? So you combine all those things together. And we got something very popular on our hands. And again, I thought that inside my bubble, I thought it was something inside my bubble was going to be popular. But now I realize that it's a very it like everybody loves the way it tastes and everybody loves the way it makes you feel Yeah, so what I got to do is order you know through the manufacturer

Ordered a ton of it and Go online Yeah, make it and and you know some people also said hey, you know what? Jock Stuff cost too much and It cost a lot because we got a high quality Container to put it in the tin as it's known Luxurious tin the luxury The luxurious tin.

You know what it was? Deluxe. It was deluxe. I knew I didn't say luxurious. I didn't, I forgot to rewind that part. But the tin costs a lot of money to make. And so that's what it is. Well, when people said it was too expensive, I said, oh, okay, cool.

I'll put it in a box also. So we got it coming in a box. You can still get it in the tin because you need at least one tin. Oh, yeah. Multi-purpose tactical. Multi-purpose tactical. You probably need a few of them in your house. Pens, check.

Screws and nails. Check. and T itself, check, and then you're also going to be able to buy it in big box with a hundred count in there. So we're taking care of you on that end. Yeah. Again, here I was.

All I was wrote down to say was, we have Jock White T. Yeah, yeah, yeah, instead I talk about it for eight minutes. What is wrong with me? You got to. And you know what? I think it's too much Jocka White T has got me talking.

It got me mentally engaged at such a level that I need to just take it easy. Called the positive feedback loop. Also, we got a book, Extreme Ownership. It's about combat leadership. Therefore, it's about all leadership. Written by myself and my brother Laif Babin. And if you buy the audio version, it's read by myself and my brother Laif Babin.

So you can check that out. It's also at Amazon. Appreciate it. Following that, if you happen to want to continue this little conversation that we're having right now, or you just want to get after it on the interwebs that's cool you can do it we are there we're on Twitter we're on Instagram and you know that we is at that face bookie echo echo is at echo charles and I am at jaco willing and thanks to everybody for listening for joining us as we join you trying to figure out how to get better into my brothers in arms in the

military overseas hunting down evil and destroying it you all out there stay aggressive and stay ahead of the enemy and the police and law enforcement thanks for holding the line and fighting crime. And the firefighters, of course, thanks for your vigilance and your courage under actual fire. And the rest of you, troopers out there listening,

honing your skills, building buildings, creating creations, designing designs, developing developments, working on what you are working on. Thanks for your relentless pursuit of excellence and of growth and of progress. And most of all, thank you for getting after it.

So until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.