Jocko Podcast - 478: Be The Comprehensive Human The Moment Demands. Jason Wilson Pt.2

Episode Date: February 19, 2025

>Join Jocko Underground<Jason Wilson faced many challenges growing up-the types of challenges that make many men turn down the wrong path-the demonic path that destroys people and ruins their souls. But, Jason was able to break away from that path-and get on another path: the Righteous Path...and he has helped thousands of people do the same through his books: Cry Like a Man, Battle Cry, and his most recent book, The Man the Moment Demands: Master the Ten Characteristics of the Comprehensive Man. He is an author, the founder and director of The Cave of Adullam Transformational Academy, Star of the Lawrence Fishburne-produced documentary, called The Cave of Adullam, he is a lifelong martial artist, and he is a husband and father.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 478 with Echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink. Good evening, Echo. Also, back with us again for round two. If you didn't listen to 477, we brought on Jason Wilson. He's back again, and we are going to talk through where we, we're going to pick up where we left off last time. So last time, again, if you haven't listened to that one yet, go listen to 477. We cover kind of, you know, Jason's background growing up, you know, what he went through. And how he ended up sitting here today talking to me,

went through a lot of struggles as a young man and a lot of temptations, a lot of off-ramps that he could have taken along the way. But by the grace of God, he's here sitting with us and we'll get back into it. So the movie comes out. Now, is there possibilities of other movies? Yeah, the main goal was cry like a man,

make that into a movie. And that's what Lawrence really loved that book. He would tell me you can't even make this stuff up. Like we would have to get this out. And so we'll see what happens. Definitely would love to do a movie on that book. I think it would be really, well, I know it would be really powerful. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, so that's the end goal. It'd be good because, man, people need good examples. And for someone that has been through what you've been through and to still live a life that is exemplary is just such a great example for people. And look, you're not, you know, it's cool if we make a movie about, you know, the football star or the rock and roll star or whatever,

but to make a movie about a normal man. Yes, yeah. That does extraordinary things in a normal environment. You know what's, man, you're making me think of a lot of things that like, man, the path that I took trying to attain certain things came when I just did what God wanted me to do. So, for instance, I always wanted to meet certain rappers and influencers. And here it is Lawrence Fishburn calling. Rappers reaching out to me that are real popular. Not for producing. Just being a regular man helping boys and men heal and be authentic. And that's really humbling and

to some extent sobering like man if you just walk in your purpose you know pursue that and I'm chasing music and all these other things she's like no I need you to chase me and when you chase me you'll find your purpose and then when you find your purpose now you'll live up to your name which jason actually means healer and so actually healer the lord of salvation and so I embody that that meaning and so it's just just looking back even looking at the books on this table like man there's three books from a young man that's been through so much you know uh well old man older man but yeah it's everyone needs hope man you know uh as dark as this world can get at times you know i'm convicted to shine my light more a friend of mine in jiu jutsu i wanted to stop i said man

this is too much you know he says well when are the good guy's going to get in the light and i never forgot that. And then when Christ says we are to let our light shine in such a way that men to see our good works but glorify him who is in heaven. So we're supposed to be bright. We're not supposed to blind people where we should give them enough light where they can find their way. And so when I found that, I found the peace that I've been yearning for that nothing else could give me and the purpose. So yeah, you're triggering a lot today, man. Yeah, appreciate it. That's wild.

You know, we were talking about, so I've written a bunch of kids' books. And when you write books, the publishers want to keep you in the category that you've been successful in. So, you know, I had written at the time, I had written a book called Extreme Ownership,

and it did incredibly well, like off the charts, very lucky, blessed with that scenario. So what's the next thing I delivered to my editor, my publisher? I say, I want to write a kid's book. And my publisher, he just said to me, hey, look, no, it's like you're, you know, that's not, that's a totally different genre and it's fiction and it's kids and it's totally different.

And you don't want to, if you do that and it doesn't go well, your next book for your adult book is not going to be this thing you want about a million reasons. And look, to his credit, you know, he's from that industry. I'm naive and dumb and, you know, he's trying to help me. and just say, listen, it's not worth the risk to do that. But I had the story in my head. I knew what I was going to write it. And so luckily, you know, I just said, well, I know you don't want me to do it, but I'm doing it. And wrote that book.

And again, just very blessed, did incredibly well. And then I followed it up with two, three, four, five, six, five more books, kids books. and they've all been, you know, successful and now they're, you know, we filmed a movie on it. So it's going to be so nice to see this movie come out and the positive impact it's going to have. The messages that are in it are just, they're just wholesome, good messages delivered in a way that people are going to be, It's going to give a good role model to kids. They're going to see a good way, good path forward. They're going to see that you can step up.

You can face challenges. You can face the hard things in life. There's going to be hard things in life. And it's going to help kids out. Are you in it? I am in it. Yes. Now, the role that I play is a real stretch for me as an actor.

Why do you laugh? Echo, because check this out, Jason. In the movie, I play. I play a retired seal commander, Lieutenant Commander, retired seal, lieutenant commander who owns a place called Victory MMA and Fitness where he teaches kids jiu-jitsu.

So that's the role that I play. And, yeah, it was a big stretch. You know, hopefully I didn't make Chris Pratt look too bad, you know? Man, he's good. What a great guy. Yeah, what a great.

And you said he reached out to you for a buck? So I didn't know he was following me. And so I was just blown away that I had inspired him in any way. And then to find out he's a believer as well. And I messaged him about just letting him know like, man, I'm just blown away. And then when this book came out, The Man, the Moment Demands. I said, would you like a copy? I could send it to you.

He was like, man, I love your work. Absolutely. This, this and that. And when the fires happened, he didn't respond. So I wondered if he didn't get it. And so when you brought up that he's a major role in this film, I'm like, okay, thank you, guy. I just want to get him this book because he's a really cool guy, man, from what I could tell, man. He's a great guy.

Yeah, his house was spared. But, you know, the fires in Pacific Palisades, this is common knowledge, right? The fires were in Pacific Palisades in Los Angeles, California, just south of Malibu, just north of Santa Monica. that area was almost completely destroyed. And his house is, you know, like right in there, right smack dab in the middle of it. And by the grace of God, his house was spared. But I don't, but I don't even know what that means.

Like, I don't, can you imagine trying to move back into your neighborhood and there's nothing there? Like, there's nothing there but like ash and smoke and chemicals. And there's no, I don't know if they have power. I don't know if they have water. Like, I don't know what the situation is. So, yeah, if you send it to them and, be a male. Well, I'll...

It was in the midst. It was during that time. Yeah. I bet he didn't get it. But yeah, he's just a great guy and he does a great job in the role. It's amazing to watch guys like that. You know, they're just... So he's such a pro. And he cared so much.

You know, he brought that movie to life because when you know how it is in Hollywood, it's nothing short of a miracle to get something actually made, right? So, like, for you to have the documentary made, that's amazing. For sure. And it's going to take a minor miracle to get Cry Like a Man Made. Oh, absolutely. And what really bothers me is you'll go watch most movies that come out. You're like, how did this get made? How did

cry like a, how is Cry Like a Man not being made into a movie? And there's some random thing that's not good for human beings. And it's getting made. And it's getting promoted. Is this similar I heard, like even with Disney, they live off of the one hit and the rest of the movies. Even if they fail, they still survive. I'm hearing it's like that in Hollywood. So that's, I know that's how books are. Yes, they are. So with books, you know, they publish 100 books.

They want one of them to be a hit. And if one of them is a hit, they can survive for another year. I'm sure Hollywood is something similar to that. They, no one, you know, it's super expensive to make a movie. Especially once you're because filming a documentary even that's expensive but that's not as expensive as Damn a feature film yeah for sure you get like you get like between one and three minutes of movie a day so on a 12 to 15 hour day of filming you get one to three minutes of movie I didn't know that yeah because it's crazy they film it from this angle they filmed the grief

they were filming this right here they'd film all of us three from a distance they'd film it over echoes shoulder pointed at you over Echo's shoulder pointed at me over your shoulder pointed at me over your shoulder pointed echo my shoulder pointed at me over your shoulder pointed echo my shoulder pointing that's what was that nine takes right there nine takes well it's ridiculous and it's expensive and it's so weird too like we're in this we're filming in this martial arts place and echo is telling the story later huge He's like, gosh, man, the way they've got the sun coming into the building right now,

like this is incredible. This is just such a beautiful shock because the sun is coming through the, and it's perfect time of day. Cutting through the cut, like the, and there's a little bit of sweat and steam in the room so you can see the rays of the sun and echoes look around going, man, this is incredible. They just nailed the timing. And then he realized a half an hour later, it looked the same. And then a half an hour later left.

He realized, you know what? It wasn't the real sun. It's not real. It's just the big light that looks like the sun. I showed another buddy of mine. There's a scene in a country fair, in a fair, you know, with a Ferris wheel and the different rides and the popcorn things. And one of those scenes is shot there. And it's at sunset.

And so my buddy, I was showing him some pictures that I took. And he was like, dude, they nailed this shot with the sun right there. It looks so amazing. And I go, bro, that ain't the sun. And this is a picture of the sunset. You're watching this. You can see what you think is the sun. And I go, bro, that's not the sun.

He's like, what? And I go, that's a light. Really? Yeah, it's incredible. So everything that you see in a movie, it's so weird. It's not real. I know we know that. Like, it's not supposed to be a surprise.

But things that are in a movie, they're not real things. And, you know, even at that, we had this fairground set up. it's totally fake it's it's not real but they have hot dogs they got popcorn they got people eating fried dough like people with tickets people getting on rides it's it's and all the and every single one of those people is is an extra is an actor and it's out there you know doing the thing it's it's crazy wow man it's crazy wow but the but so so because it's so expensive because you have to put so much money up front that movie has to do really well on the back end so you're right they have to make movies they have to cut budgets down they have to

make as many movies than they can and then go across their fingers that one of those movies is a big hit and the the whole streaming thing now has disrupted everything so it's wild times hmm it's wild times and the thing is with for my perspective is it opens up the It opens up the story to so many more people. So like a movie compared to a book is just going to be so much more accessible to so many more people. So if they made your book Cry Like a Man

into a movie, so many more people are going to see that then are going to be reading the book. Unfortunately, you know, I wish it wasn't like that but those are the facts of the case. Yes. As that's what Charles likes to say. And streaming actually, it was the cut the movie, the lifetime down like that three weeks,

now. Oh, I'm sure. It's something like that. By the way, we didn't mention this. The, the documentary is available. Your documentary is available on ESPN. Yeah, ESPN Plus. Yes. PM Plus. So if you want to watch that, it's awesome. It's awesome to watch. It's awesome to follow up of that. Those kids. I'm sure you can even do a follow-up of that, those things. Because that was made what? Three, three years ago, four years ago? Yeah, we started shooting. We stopped shooting right before COVID. Oh, so that's like four years old. Yeah. So you should, you'd be checking back. in with these kids in a couple of years. See how they're doing.

We could do that. Yeah, I still talk to them. But yeah, we, thankfully, Helen, who was Lawrence manager, like, pushed to shoot in December because we didn't know what was coming in 2020. And so we lost two years there pretty much. Gosh. And that's what happened. Yeah.

And it was unfortunate, too, because the boys who were going through the ride of passage, we lost two years with them. So it was very tough, yeah, very tough time. What's the percentage of people that stick with it? the program at the cave. What's the age? What age do I start? Eight years old, we started eight until 12 years old.

So it's eight to 12. Yes. What are the percentages of kids that make it through those years? Hmm. I'm gonna check on... Is it most of them? Yeah, I would say almost all of them because we have an 800 kid waiting list right now.

And so if you're able to get in, the parents, you're not leaving. You know, they want you in there because of what it does to you outside of the Marshal. All right, please. There was part of the movie. I was watching the movie, and they're talking this woman, this mom. And I forget the exact thing, but she says, you know, my son was doing this, my son was doing that.

You know, I tried this, I tried that. And she goes, he needed the cave. My wife and I were watching it. My wife started laughing. She's like, oh, I know that feeling. He needed a cave. Yeah, that's crystal. Yeah.

Yeah, that was. I think that's Gabe's mom. Yeah, sure was. She knew what was up. He needed. The cave. And that's what they say when they come. If I'm out, you know, mothers, one mother literally joined our gym where I worked out

at to make sure she ran into me. Yeah. Yeah. So you got 800 kids on a waiting list. Are you, is there not a way to, to, for lack of a better word, franchise it so other people can run a program? It is. The problem is you have to be more than just a martial artist.

So now you have to deal with psychology, emotional intelligence. And a lot of men haven't dealt with their own. things to be able to help a child. And so I have great martial artists to come and say, hey, I want to help. Great, I give them a book. Let's dive into you and see where you are. And I don't hear back from them because, you know, we're running front of bullets to save our families. But when we have to deal with our own issues, we won't go in that direction because it's painful. And a lot of it, a lot of men don't want to unearth those memories. And because, again, it's going to bring forth emotions that we are taught from child.

childhood we shouldn't feel. And so, yeah, it's heart-rending. You can say, well, 800 kids, that's a lot. But at the same time, it's like, man, many of these kids will age off by the time we call them. And so our goal is to make an academy, a school, middle school. That way the cave will be a part of the core curriculum as well. And that way we could definitely reach more kids at one time.

What's the next step in that program? Well, we're actually going to do a summer camp this summer to pilot it to see what it looks like for an eight-hour day for a young boy where he has his core curriculum as well as etiquette training. Like we do dining etiquette, financial literacy, grooming etiquette as well. And so we get to see what it looks like this summer. And I've had several people, investors like, look, you do this. I'm behind you. I have teachers who've retired because they're tired of the school system. They say, look, I'll leave my job.

If you do a school for boys and it's centered around the cave, I'm there. Now, you can scale that. That can be scaled. I've had a bunch of people ask me about a warrior kid. So the kids books, I wrote Warrior Kid. I've had people ask me about that since the day the book came out, you've got to do a school with this. And that's one of the first steps that I've looked at is like, okay, well, maybe we could start with a summer camp. My son went to a wrestling camp called J-Rob.

It doesn't exist anymore. Unfortunately, it didn't survive through. COVID, but the guy Jay Robinson, he was a ranger in Vietnam, and he was a champion wrestler, and it was a great program. I mean, it was just a great program. My son went out there, and he went with his best friend. I think they were 14 or, I think they were about 14 years old in between their freshman and sophomore year.

But, you know, they had to write down all their goals. They had to write down all their weaknesses. They had to write down all their strengths. had to write down what they were going to do to get better. They had to write down what they eat every day. They had to write down how they felt. They had to write down how they performed. They couldn't.

One of my favorite things, you know, when you sit on the floor, when you sit on the mat, you sit, you lean back on your hands. You're not allowed to sit like that. Absolutely. Yep. So it's like all those little habits. And he came back, he came back a better human. And I remember, so you got to, you,

every day you're getting graded. And if you get a certain demerit, you can't get this t-shirt. There's a t-shirt that says I did it. And that's what the kids want. The kids want to get that t-shirt. And the last thing that you had to do was a 12-mile run.

And my son had hurt his ankle, like early. And so he had a bad ankle. And I was worried, I talked to him on the phone, and I said, you know, you got that run tomorrow. I said, what are you going to do but with your ankle? And he said, I'm going to go to the athletic trainer and tell them to tape it up so it can so it doesn't move and I'm going to get it done and he did and I was like okay cool that's like that's what I like to hear you know tape it up father like

son that's awesome man but but yeah when when you talk about a school turning the cave into a school man that would be so good and that's how you could scale it that's that's that's what I see we've tried so many other ways and it's like and it's a need for all cultures I honestly You know, it's interesting on social media. You would have the, I guess they call them trolleers. He said, why aren't any white kids in there? I said, well, there's no sign that says colors only. I said, so that's not on me because God didn't give it to me just for it to be isolated

in one community because it's designed really to help boys in general because all of us are jacked up. You know, when that video went viral, I thought it was just a black issue as far as being emotionally incarcerated and hypermasculative. no it's a man issue and we all need help and our kids are learning from broken men who are walking around with broken boys inside and so it's it's definitely something I know is cross-cultural I have friends who are Mexican especially this man you get some of this Mexican blood in the cave that's what they tell me all the time and because they know especially in their culture that

you know, provide and protect. And it's like, but I'm unhealthy. You know, I'm not even patient with my kids. I'm not even, I don't even love myself really. And when you can teach an eight-year-old, these principles, and then around an academic setting where typically all of their issues are and everyone abides by these core principles and teachings, and then the centerpiece instead of physical ed,

you have the cave. You're talking about, changing a whole generation of boys. Then you're talking about changing a whole generation of men, fathers, husbands, presidents, leaders. That's where it is. And that's what we're going. We're going to try it this summer and see how it works and my desire is to scale it.

And I don't want it to die with me. That's my greatest prayer like because of my body's aging out, man. It feels like it's almost time, you know, and it's like, but this is. this can't die with me. You know, so God, what is it? And it's like the school, the teachers, the men like, they're, I got high quality men. And you know how many teachers are desiring for something like this?

So now all you need is that one teacher for the cave, but you have the whole wraparound. Now it's a lot easier. Yep, yeah. And so when there's funding for that, you know, a guy gets insurance and everything and he's had to teach. And your focus is the emotional stability training here. to make sure that they have a foundation

to be better academically. Then you incorporate job skills training, like real life training. This is all stuff. When people asked early on, and what would a warrior kid's school look like? And this is exactly what I would know from. I literally was like, oh, job.

This is one of the podcasts, one of the early podcasts we did. It was teaching about how to do maintenance on a vehicle, teaching about how to use tools, you know, how to do. basic framing and trim work. And I guess if you're there, we'd have to do some tile work as well. And fix a hole in the wall.

That's what I was telling my friends who were going to teach the construction module of the school. I said, I don't want them to be master carpenters, master plumbers, master tile setters. I need them to be, like we would say, anything, everything, they have to be at any given moment. So fix the hole in the wall so you don't have to pay $125 for a drywaller. Do you know how to change a flange on the toilet? How do you stop a leak?

I mean like these are big, this is where your costs are going to come. And I'm like, you incorporate that with community service, financial literacy at a young age, open bank accounts for all of the students to start saving and investing at nine and ten years old. It's over.

Game changer. Yeah, you know. I think there's going to be such a high demand for this kind of stuff. I think the demand exists right now and I think it's just a matter of the market supplying it, which, you know, clearly you're going to make a stab at it this summer. I'm sure it's going to be awesome.

Hopefully I can get out there over the summer. Man, they'd love to see you. Especially that, so we have like four of the peer instructors who were four of the guys you gave the rash cards. Oh, right on. So they would love to see you. If you can swing that way, when you were just there for your product. Yeah, yeah, a few years ago. We couldn't meet up that time.

Yeah. I'll come and do, come and come and hang out at Meyer. They sell, they sell joccal for a little bit. Yeah, for sure. Let me know. Yeah, we'll make that happen. Picking up where we left off last time. So the book Battle Cry.

Talk about the premise of the book Battle Cry. I wrote that book in the midst of COVID. And so talking about dealing with your inner wars, your battles. And so many men were because for the first time in their life, they couldn't, there was no escape. There was not, I couldn't say, hey, honey, I'm at work. I'll be home late. And now I have an hour to talk to you so I can go to. bed. You were in the house

the entire time. Children, wife. Did divorce rates go up or down? Did they? Oh yeah. A friend of ours who was a lawyer, she was like maxed out. It was too much. Because people never dealt with their real issues, especially the men.

So we're taught to sweep it under the rug and keep going. And so that's why I wrote that book is let's yell a battle cry and wage and win our inner battles before they become external wars. And that's what the premise of that book was and to send them out to battle the real battle and it's within us you know that as a seal you know a matter of fact a gentleman named ryan made he was a psychologist for uh the navy seals 15 years

i met him he works with the royals now okay and he was just intrigued by the cave of adelaim he was like you don't know you're doing psychology here he says but i'm intrigued because it doesn't turn into a challenge he said that was my greatest struggle with the seals it's like it always turned into a challenge when you're trying to get men to deal with the emotion side. And I said, I get it. He said, how are you doing? I said, well, I think I just model it first. You know, when my kids first saw me cry, the armor, the crack in the armor when my mother had a stroke, I couldn't be this stoic teacher anymore. And when that tear came out and my students saw it, it not only liberated me and the fathers who were there, but it liberated them. And that's when you, you know, you. And that's when

that video went viral because they had already were used to being transparent in that moment. And so when I looked at, when I met with Ryan, he was like, this is really a gift, man. And like, you should try to do it with more men as well. And he would share stories with me about the seals. Like, one, it's like you guys have to swim across. Like, you're not going to make it. What is that called? When you're swimming, it's, I forgot how far you have to swim.

And it was like he was saying that a lot of guys did. even make it all the way through. There's so many things like that where a lot of guys don't make, whether it's a 50 meter underwater swim. That's what it was. Which again sounds kind of easy until you have, you know, a cough and a cold because you've been in and out of the water. And then you got to jump in, do a somersault, swim, you know, they make everything as a little

bit, even, even like a four-mile timed run. The four-mile time run in first phase is 32 minutes. That's, that's... that's nothing. You know what I mean? Any high school athlete can do that, no problem. But you get it there and you got a cold

and you did you know, 708 count bodybuilders at 2 o'clock in the morning and now you got a 4 mile time run at 4 o'clock in the morning. You see guys fail. And by the way, the 4 mile time run is anywhere between 4.1 miles

and 4.5 miles depending on where they park the truck What the tide is like. Did you guys run with gear on as well? Those runs are boots, cammy pants, and t-shirt. So that's a game changer as well. Yeah, yeah, it is.

So it could have been any of these things that your friend Ryan was talking about. He didn't share a lot, but when he said, they said, you don't understand what you're helping them work through is what the seals do and how much emotions play a role

even on the battlefield. And that's what drew me to you, man, hearing how you, especially at Ann Arbor, you were talking about the emotions and how you have to control them in the moment or you're done. And I'm thinking on the battlefield if you're frantic. And we need ammunition and you're lost emotionally. We're done. And so, yeah, I didn't know the, well, that seems

attainable running, but when you add all those other factors in, that's why I was taking aback when you said that like, man, I could do seven minutes miles a good day. Yeah. And I tried to get that down, but my knees is like, you need to peloton. Jay, Jason. But yeah, I know if we did a schoolman, especially even with your book, what you're talking about in the movie, it's already a demand for it. That's why the boot camps existed,

and the Scared Straight programs, it was just the wrong formula. It didn't work. It made. Did they do, or do you know about research about the Scared Straight program? Did they, like, track and did it help any of those kids? Well, I don't know.

about the research, I can tell you about the boys that I knew who went through it and the schools who participated, they stopped within a year. No kidding. They didn't see the improvement. You didn't deal with the core issues. You didn't deal with the why. You know, it's similar like martial arts, you want to know how it works,

but not why it works. In a real fight, techniques will look different because you're not, you don't have a compliant attacker. Even when you're rolling with someone, you still know this guy. You know this girl. It's a lot missing from that. A role the gym is different from a role in competitive match, which is different than a fight,

which is different than a fight to the death. Like each one of those things has its own little. He said to the death. Yeah, got to pull out one of these. Oh, it changes significantly. And that's why I love when you said the best self-defense is a gun. Then you said if someone pulls a knife out, run. Yeah.

People don't understand. Like, dude. You know, there's a whole category. I was going to talk about this a little. the last podcast we did but I was talking to a young a young seal the other day and so when we when we do training we do force on force training which means you're going to fight other live living people and we use paintball a form of paintball it's called sim munition and it and it you use your real gun but you have a different barrel for it and now you're shooting paintball but

it's your real gun and it's very realistic it's very realistic Because, you know, your pistol has some munition. If your primary goes down, you switch it, you're moving down the hallways and you can put down cover fire. But there is still something that's missing. And it's very similar to what you were talking about in the last podcast with knife fighting and like how there is a certain psychological element that you cannot train properly with a fake knife. just like there's a psychological element that you can't train properly with fake bullets. And it's this.

It's this right here. So if you're a bad guy and you're down the hallway from me, you can come out of your doorway and start shooting in me. And you could put down a whole magazine and get good, accurate fire on me by looking down your sights and shooting at me. And if I'm in the hallway, I'm going to get killed. What doesn't exist.

exist in that situation is the actual human fear that you would have as a bad guy sticking your head around the corner now when you're a jihadist you don't care if you live or die there's well some jihadists don't care if they live or die so they're just going to do it anyways but some of them are going to be like oh well I don't actually want to die right now and you see the guys doing the medal of honor runs like you'd see young young seal freaking we'd be in a paintball fight in training you'd see a young seal go out charge cross you know the the edge grab a wounded guy who's been shot with paintball and drag him out of the street that's it is cool and guys do that for real my guys did that for real with real bullets

but it's it's different when it's real than it is with training there's just a difference there so the closer you can get to realism the the more you're going to understand it you're never going to quite note and that's why I like you know your instructor that said hey we're going to use real knives they're dulled but they're real you ever seen those knives that have the sparks in them or whatever it's called yeah yeah the electric ones yeah the elect have you seen those you know what a taser is right yes it's like that so it's like a it's like a knife taser so it's it can't stab you but you get shocked and you feel it and you feel it like a like a legit shock so that way you get that real fear because, you know, you see the fake martial artist that's like,

oh, and someone comes out a knife with me or the knife, I do this, this, and this, it's like, bro, you don't do that. You go, ah! That's what you do. Yeah, you're not doing any of that. You know, I thought they to touch you? No. So, like, think about that stuff.

Can I ask you a question? So I always wanted to know, is it true that that swim you were just telling me about that that Ryan talked about, if a seal goes under, does he, like, pass out for a while and you revive him? I heard about that. I didn't know how true that was. To get the fear of death out, is that accurate? He might have also been talking about something called drownproofing. And in drownproofing, they tie your feet together and they tie your hands behind your back.

And then they put you in the water and you've got to float, well, I forget what it's called, survival float for like 10 minutes. Then you've got to swim. I think it's 100 meters. It's down to one end of the pool, back to the other another pool, and back. to where you were, so it's 100 meters. And then you have to do something called bobbing, which is you basically go down to the nine foot section, the bottom, and you push off with your feet.

And then they have a bunch of dive masks on the bottom of the pool. And you have to, after you do the bobbing for 10 minutes, then you have to go down to the bottom of the pool and get the mask off the bottom of the pool in your teeth. You have to get it in your mouth and bring it up and then tread water until they tell you you can stop. And then you like dolphin over the side of the pool and they pull you up and they go.

That, so that's very challenging. I'd say that's more challenging for most people than the 50 meter underwater swim. Now, do they let you drown? No. Do people have shallow water blackouts? Yes, they do. They do. Where they're trying to get it done and they can't and they just go to sleep and then people

jump in and save them. But what you have to learn in those things, in those, one of the key components of that is if you panic, you're not going to pass. How much would you say percentage-wise and still training is physical and emotional? Like, what would your percentage be? It's impossible to say what the percentage is

because depending on who you are, the test will be different. Okay, I got you. Right? So if you are great at running, running isn't a problem. If you're bad at running, running is a problem. And if you're emotionally calm or if you're just used to the water, you're going to be fine in the water. If you're not used to the water, it's going to be a problem.

If you can handle some chaos because they're going to make things chaotic, if you can handle that chaos and you can take a step back and take a breath, you'll be fine. If you can't, you're not going to be a problem. You're not going to be fine. If you can't handle someone yelling and screaming at you, it's gonna be a problem. If you can realize that they're doing their job and you're gonna do your job, keep your mouth shut, keep going, you're gonna be fine.

So what it is is there's probably, you know, just, they just figure out everyone's got a weakness and they're gonna find it. And they can make you quit with that weakness or you can overcome that weakness. You can embrace the weakness and go, okay, I'm not good in the water, I'm gonna practice in the water.

I'm not good at running, I'm gonna practice running and you can overcome that thing. But people ask that sometimes, you know, is it mental or is it physical? The answer is it's both, because like it doesn't matter how bad you want to do a rope climb. If you've never, if you haven't trained your muscles, you're not gonna be able to, you can't miracle your way up a rope climb.

It ain't gonna happen. You have to be able to have the physical strength to do it. And if you don't, it doesn't matter how bad you want it. You know that, uh, you hear coach Ripato, from starting strength, like gun to your head with squats, gun to your head, you can get to a point where you can't do anymore. Now, generally speaking, that's heavier loads, right? Like if you do a true one rep max and I put a gun to your head and say, give me one more, you can't do it. Can't do it.

Now, if you're doing 20 rep squats and you guys. got your 20th one and I put a gun to your head, you can probably get one more. You can probably get one more. You know, and speaking to seal training, like, you know how many pushups you can do? You can do one more. Like you can always do one more.

That's true. You can always do one more. It's gonna be sloppy. You might have, you know, what you can, oh, you're just gonna be, and they'll do that with squats. They'll do that with sit-ups. They'll do that with push-ups.

Like, how many squats you can do? You can do air, like body weight squats? You can do one more. You can do one more. That's true. Somebody puts a gun to your head. you can do one more. I mean,

it would have to take hours. It would probably take 12 hours before I put a gun to your head, echo and said, do one more squat, and you failed. Like, you just, you know,

especially if you're like, okay, you could pause for three seconds. You could pause for seven seconds. Be like, all right, I'm going to start. I'm going to start.

I'm going to do it right now. And then you go, okay, okay, okay, okay, I'm going to go. And then you do it. You got one more, because you got just enough rest to get it done.

You could probably do that kind of indefinitely. but the heavy squat like something that's your two your two rep max you're only going to do what you do so when it comes to seal training some of it like a rope climb

you can get to a point where you can't do any more rope climbs it doesn't matter how bad you want it unless you've trained so you have to be physically ready but then the mental stuff is like go getting that water again you don't want to get in that water again hey they put you in bed in a warm bed

halfway through hell week they go hey listen Hey, class, you know, we just got in trouble as instructors. We're being too hard on you guys. The Admiral just gave the order that we need to put you guys to bed for eight hours. And then you're going to spend the rest of hell week dry. And everyone goes, oh, wow. They don't think it's anymore. Everybody knows the scam now.

But you know what? You go, you get in bed 20 minutes. You fall asleep instantly. Dry clothes, you get in bed. You fall asleep instantly. And then boom, they come back in. They're screaming and go, we get wet again. A lot of people quit right then actually they don't do it on Wednesday. It's like it's like a Monday Tuesday

Tuesday thing. It's one of the more it's one of the bigger barriers to take a person Take them to maximum discomfort then give them maximum comfort and then rip them back out of it That's that's a good way to get people to quit and they do a really good job of getting people to quit So it's all these things it's all these little challenges there's so many little wickets that you have to get that through you have to be strong you have to be calm you have to be lucky because there's a certain amount of luck involved you know you run down the beach and you're doing rot landing with the boats on the rocks and you blow your knee out like hey it's just it's terrible it's very risky uh to try and get through that training but thanks for sharing brother i just i wanted some confirmation on a lot you hear a lot

and i know uh Ryan's legit but the other things you were here like I'm gonna ask jaco here himself when I see him yeah but thanks for sharing man you know what happens to is sometimes in storytelling people want I want you to feel what I felt so you know someone will say do they put you in the pool and they drown you so there's an evolution called life saving where you have to rescue a seal instructor that's supposedly drowning so The seal instructor will be in the middle of the pool, and you'll be next in line, and the seal instructor will look at you and go,

help, I'm drowning. Like, they'll say it just like that. You jump in the water, and you go to try and drag them to the back of the, to the side of the pool. Well, as soon as you make contact with them, it's a grappling match, and they're going to try,

they're going to, they're pulling you to the bottom. They're going to, you know, get inverted on you. They're going to choke you. They're going to do a bunch of stuff. Now, do they actually... Echo laugh at all right. He's having a good time.

Do they actually drown you? No, they don't actually drown you. But if I wanted to explain to you what's going on, I'd say, dude, they're drowning you. So it's one of those things where I think people try and tell a story and they want to invoke the emotions from the people that they're talking to and our human language isn't good enough for me to really convey like, bro, they drown you.

And you go, well, you know, so those kind of rumors can get spread that way. but people do pass out underwater people like the the training is definitely very very difficult and it and it tests not too many there's a very very very few people that don't have some kind of challenge going through seal training you know very few people that's clear you know not a lot of people can make it through it yeah yeah and again

That being said, if you're like an average high school athlete, which was me, I was an average high school athlete. I wasn't like, I read in your book, you're like, I was naturally athletic and really good at football. I was like, oh, cool, good for you. It wasn't me. So if you're an average high school athlete, they can train you up to where you can do what you got to do to be a seal. But that's where the mental part comes in. because if that's all it took was being an average high school athlete,

everyone would make it, but they don't. Only 20% of people make it, if that. Got it. Wow. So eventually, and your latest project has been assembling this idea

of the comprehensive man. And that's the subject of your latest book, which is called the man, the moment, demands. And as I read the book and I put together what that means is it's what you've been talking about a lot in different situations. You got to bring forth the proper characteristics

at that time to deal with that particular scenario. And so that's why we have to be not just the man that responds to everything the same, but you got to be the man that the moment demands. So as you shared about your daughter, you know, that moment. Yeah. Yeah. Doing that stuff all the time. You say just a little introduction here. While I've outlined 10 characteristics of the comprehensive man in this book, it's vital to remain open to evolving.

Remember, once you've allowed someone else to define you, you can never be all you were created to be. Therefore, instead of simply conforming to perceived expectations, the comprehensive man becomes whatever the, the moment demands. And to me, I talk a lot about having an open mind. And that's exactly what this is. Like, you've got to have an open mind that when your daughter, for instance, reacts a certain way, you may not be correct to respond the way you were treated or the way you treated your son or the way you treated your wife or the way you treated

her three months ago. Three days ago, three minutes ago. minutes ago. You say this man is not defined by societal demands. In fact, this man typically chooses the opposite path of the one laid out for the masculine male, as you can see here. And you've got a chart here. So on one side of the chart, you've got the masculine male, which is sort of what

society is put forth. And then on the other side of the chart, you've got the comprehensive man. So the first example you give is the masculine male suppresses his emotion. and hides behind a facade to appear strong. The comprehensive man expresses his emotions freely without fear of being judged. Now, we talked about this on the last podcast. There are times when you have to suppress your emotions.

There are times where it's not appropriate to express your emotions freely. And what I like about this book is, you've got to do the appropriate one at the appropriate time. You've got to be the man that the moment demands. Yeah. How often, like I share even, I think it's Battle Cry, the huddle principle. Remember, they was just talking about the comeback.

They thought Patrick Mahomes would make a comeback against the Eagles in the Super Bowl. They compared him to Tom Brady when he was down, what is it, 28 to 3 to Atlanta in the Super Bowl. And Trey Flowers is a good friend of mine. He played on that team. he was talking about Tom's leadership in that moment. So as a husband, you know, you become a comprehensive man. Now you're a verbal process, so you don't, no longer repress your emotions. You still have to read the room.

Okay. So the huddle principle says if my family is surrounded and we're in the huddle, like Tom Brady, I can't say, hey, look, no team has ever come back from a deficit this great. I'm tired. I already got three Super Bowl rings. I'm good. So let's just pack this up.

Y'all ready? You know. and we're done. So that's not what I'm saying. So like you're saying, Jocko, you have to be wise and read the room. So you go to the huddle, see where everyone is at. I have to ask my wife, hey, what's your capacity right now to hear something heavy that I went to today? Is this a good time for you to receive?

She either said yes or no. So that gives me permission to share. You can't as a leader, you can't come to the huddle and say, we're done, we're going to lose. You know, I'm just telling you, I don't even have confidence no more. You got to know when. Now, for your children, sometimes with my son, it blesses him when he sees me move through fear and doubt. I said, man, you know, I'm nervous right now if I have to speak at a large facility or whatever it is. I'm nervous.

I purposely tell him that so he can see me move through it. If they constantly see dad is stoic and robotic and he always gets everything under control, what happens when they feel what he feel but never seen that he feels that now they feel i'm a disappointment i can't live up to to to uh wilson's legacy because my dad never falls he's never nervous he's never scared but i'm feeling these emotions and that's why it's our duty as men and father's like look i'm going to show you this side but this isn't the end of the story so you're going to see dad nervous now but i'm going to move through this and let's look at what happens at the end. And that's what's

real important about the huddle principles. Like, you have the freedom now, but with that freedom to express yourself comes a responsibility to know when. One of the things I talk about from a leadership perspective, very similar, is generally speaking,

the leader has to look at the mob. Because by the way, when you're in a leadership position, you're in charge of a mob. And you're going to have a mob mentality in your family. You're going to have a mob mentality at work. You're have a mob mentality in your team. and when that mob starts to move emotionally in a direction, you need to make sure that it's the right direction. And generally speaking, as a leader,

when it's moving in the wrong direction, you're the only one that's going to get it moving back in the right direction. So, for instance, you come into the huddle and you just had a great play and it looks like you're going to score real easy and you're already up on points and everyone's getting cocky and arrogant. You as a leader need to walk in there and go, hey, listen, gents, we're doing okay but this is still a game

we got to bring our A game right now so you can go a little bit hard in that direction if you're down by however many points Tom Brady was down and you get to the huddle and you're like you can see that everyone's dragging and that no one thinks you can win

and you go in there and say well this is still a game but I don't know if we can make it exactly like you said no you got to pull that mob in the other direction so that's why that's this idea of being

the man the moment demands you've got to make sure that you understand what the demands are. You can't dictate the demands to the people. You can't dictate what your nine-year-old daughter needs from you. What you need is this? No, it doesn't work that way. You got to, as you said, read the room. You got to have a relationship that you go,

oh, I can see this is really bothering her. Oh, somebody called her a name. You can't walk in there. Don't worry about kids calling you a name. Sticks and stones break your bones, don't worry about it. Nope, doesn't work like that. She got called a name. It hurt her.

That's her whole world, that classroom. If you can't understand that and get there and give her the man that the moment demands right there, it's not going to work. That's good, man. Even I would tell parents, and I've been guilty of this, my kids tired from work or school. I say, well, no, not work but school. I said, wait until you get a real job. What did you have to do what I have to do? well in that moment I was the wrong man because I wasn't sympathetic to what they were dealing with like you just said school is their world school is their work they feel the same pressure it just looks different with my mother when she had to mention was living I had to learn to say if you fear balloons I fear balloons when I work with kids who are autistic if you're scared if this this knife falling on this table sounds like a bomb to me it sounds like a bomb and so I

I want to be on your side. I want to feel what you feel so I can meet that moment. And that's how I'm able to help kids heal. And with my daughter, her room wasn't dirty because she disrespected dad. It was dirty and disorderly because of being bullied at school. And I missed that. You know, and that's why I wrote this in the dedication is to every man who is tired of being the wrong man in the moment. You know, we can change that.

And so you hit it right on the head, man. It's real important that we. Don't put our kids, and we've been saying this in the previous episode, let them be seven, let them be eight. Like little Jocko was in the seal. What's your son's thing? Thor. Oh, man. Oh, man.

But he's, like your wife said, he's not active duty, a Navy seal. And so how many of us as something not as serious is that, your son isn't you in high school playing football? You know, he doesn't need to practice eight hours a day. He's seven. And we're robbing these boys of life. And we wonder why when they get older, they don't want to work with us. They don't want to work with dad at his factory or his business because there's no purpose here. There's no joy.

All I remember is the hardship. You really got to prioritize the relationship that you have. Because just saying working with another human being. If you and I have a good relationship, but you'll, you'll show up early for me, you'll put out, you know, work hard and we'll get after it together

and accomplish great things. If you and I don't have a relationship, you're barely even showing up for work. That's true. It's the same thing with your kids. If your kids, if you don't have a good relationship with your kids, they're not going to want to practice.

They're not going to want to hang out with you. They're not just not going to work. So prioritizing that relationship and the relationship is trustless and respect, influence, and care. That's how I'd say that again. What is it? That's how I'd,

Those are the components of a relationship from my perspective. Trust, listen, respect, influence, and care. Love it. So if I don't listen to you and you don't listen to me, do we have a relationship? No. If I don't trust you and you don't trust me, do we have relationship? No relationship. If you don't respect me and I don't respect you, do we have relationship?

If I have no influence over you and you have no influence over me, do we have a relationship? No. If I don't care about you and you don't care about me, do we have a relationship? No, sir. So that's what a relationship is. So in order to build a relationship, here's the hard part. I got to give those things.

That means I got to listen to you. That means you got to listen to your nine-year-old daughter. That's good. That means you got to allow your 10-year-old son to influence you. That means you got to treat them with, I'm the dad, they better respect me. You better treat them with respect.

You got to give them trust. You got to show them you care about them. those things are so critical. I always tell the story about my son. My son was probably like 10 years old. He's doing jiu-jitsu. We're all training jiu-jitsu at my gym. And I see him trying to get an arm lock on an adult,

but a smaller adult. But, you know, he's working. And I said, hey, get your hips a little bit more under the, and he looks at me. He's 10 years old. I said, get your hips a little more under that shoulder. And he goes, you don't have to do that. And that's when I knew.

That's when I knew. I was like, oh, he's not going to worry here. this stuff for me. You know, like, okay, I got it. In this book I wrote, Kids book, the kid's book, there's an uncle in the book that comes and mentors the kid.

And one of the reasons why I didn't make it the dad is, there's two reasons. Number one, I know a lot of kids that don't have dads. I didn't want them to think, oh, well, this will never be me. But also, I know kids

don't listen to their dads in a direct manner. They do it indirectly. Your son is watching you. Your son is going to imitate you. Your son is, he's listening at a depth of his soul that he doesn't even recognize. The good and the bad. It's there.

So you got to pay attention to those things. You know, we were at Home Depot just before I came out here. And a longtime friend of mine sees me and we're talking. He knows my son because our kids went to the same school together. So he said, hey, Jay, how you doing? So Jason's driving now. Rolls the window down and they start talking. He's like, you don't really know who your dad

is right now. You're really too close to see him. And I looked at him like, wow, that hit me because I told my wife when she was pregnant with Jason, I said he's going to refer to me, my sobriquet or nickname will be and. Because my dad can do this and this and this, you know. And when he gets to the age of when he's trying to learn independency,

I'm like, don't confuse it with being isolated. But I had to send men around him like you did. That was an excellent move. I have Chris, who's my main assistant in the cave. He's the big brother to Jason. My spiritual brother Ron Lee, he is Jason's uncle. I got brother-in-laws. Because I know as long as we have the same principles,

I don't care how it's conveyed. And that was such, that was so wise because one of the things that breaks my heart in the cave, mothers say, well, he's feeling this way because his dad isn't there. And so I'm glad you put the uncle because, again, like I didn't take advantage of my stepfather when he was there. I want when kids see that movie, they won't miss the other men in their lives that could be father figures. He may never be dad. You know, no one should replace dad and can, really.

But there are other men that can help you get there on that journey, man. So that's wise. And a lot of times as fathers, we have to put our ego and pride aside and say, hey, I want what's best for my son. Yep. Yeah, part of it is your kids are programmed to break contact with their parents so they can leave the nest.

They got to do it. That's it. If they just continually just like live off of you like a parasite, they know that they have to break away. And for them to psychologically, They got to create some kind of boundaries. They know they got to. And it hurts.

And that's what we have to. I tell, I had to tell so many conflict resolution sessions with fathers and sons. I tell the dad, you're not conveying the real emotion. And so in the book The Man of Moment demands, I have the earthquake of emotions. The surface emotion is anger. We quick to go there. That damages everything we love at the surface. But if we could address the emotions at the hypercenter, where they begin.

So I say, you know, if my friend is Steve, I say, you're not angry, you're hurt. You're not angry. You're not angry. You're scared. You're not angry. You're sadden. Express those. And when fathers learn to be transparent, like, I'm still going to be dad, but I'm going to let him know your action hurt me.

My son has told me. He says, it wasn't the yelling. It wasn't the discipline. It was the fact that I knew I had hurt you that make me want to change. And so when a father can allow them. that side to be seen, it's a game changer. It worked for me and my son. And I love also parents say, well, how do you know when it's too much? Like, you know, parents' greatest fear is giving their children too much attention or too many resources. And they kind of let their kids fend to life

themselves or if their kid doesn't want to speak to them. Now the parent is in their feelings like, well, you don't want to talk. I ain't got to talk to you either. The worst thing you can do, as a parent is to let your child go silent. Just let them be. And so often tell parents, well, what can you live with? And so what do you mean? Well, could you live with yourself, humbling yourself, putting your ego aside, putting this parent title aside, and going in and doing whatever it takes to make the connection, or would you rather receive a phone call that they overdosed? And always, it's like, I want to put the work in. And so I give them example of my son. He's like, said my therapist told me he's like don't worry they'll come back this is this is nature they have to do

this so little jay he's a teenager he wants to be in his room by himself i'm like what's wrong why you responding that way he's like nothing dead i'm just chilling or how about dad i had a bad day too you know and we missed that as parents so now instead of being intrusive like just blatantly like hey don't cut the light off don't close the door this i say son How you doing? Hey, dad, can I come in? Sure, got permission. Hey, do you mind if I can do my work in here with you?

Can I just lay down here? And if he gives me permission, now I'm just, the presence is what he's feeling. Kids don't really care about perfection. They want to know that you're there. And without saying a word, my presence in that room allows me to maintain, like you said, the relationship. I'm respecting you. But at the same time, I want to let you know that you mean every. thing to me. That's the last part, right?

It's care. I care about you. I'm just sitting here. And I don't, it's just like being in the same room with you, is good to go. That's it. You're going to say anything to me. I could stay here on my iPad and work or read a book, but as long as I'm here, you know, and as a father, you know, you don't want your son not to admire you or call you,

hey, dad, you know, but we have to let them grow. And you have to remember, too, that, man, my mother, I never talked to my mom like that, or my dad, and I never thought anything was wrong. We forget that we two were teenagers. Sometimes we just want our own space. It doesn't mean anything is wrong. I just had a long day just like you, dad and mom.

And so when we give our sons and our daughters that space and that we're connected, like you're saying, that your world is important to me just as mine, parenting becomes not so much as a battle. That's when you get that relationship. That's when the child says, wow, you leave the room like, he respected me. He asked, could he come in here? Even though you pay all the bills, but the fact that you ask is teaching him something about manhood and being respected.

So that's good, man. I need to write down that acronym. I'll text it to you. And is that in that book there? It's actually in this book here called Leadership Strategy and Tactics Field Manual. I need all of that. I leave here, man. You're going to be getting a package of books.

All right. At the cave for sure. Thank you. Okay. We made it through one of these things in this chart. Next one, exudes the male, the masculine male exudes only masculine characteristics. The comprehensive man exudes both masculine and unquote unmasculine characteristics. So this is, again, this is the thing we talked about in the last podcast.

It's like, you got to have both sides. If you're just one side, you're not functional. or you're not functioning at optimum rate. I tell the teenagers who like sports, especially like basketball, what if you only could go to the right? Dribble to your right. You're exposed, okay?

So you want a comprehensive game. MMA exposed just traditional martial arts. You can't just know one style anymore. It's the same thing with manhood. You want to know as much as you can so you can meet the moment of a fight, an argument, or an intimate moment with your wife. Can you really be locked in?

You know, does it have to be all physical, or can you speak to the emotions of your wife, you know, and talk to the little girl in her that's still broken and needs to be healing? And that's a challenge for a lot of us because we're taught sexist performance as well. Like, how long can you go? What can you do? You said, no, I'm just going to be present. You know, I shared in the book, Nicole had an incision vertically. And she had very self-conscious about it. And one day, because I was just, open, God says, I need you to kiss that scar from the top to the bottom. And I did that in foreplay, and she just wept because it liberated her because that was what she needed because my wife loves me. And she says literally she believes God created her. One of her main reasons being here is to help me fulfill his purpose through my life. And so I was emotionally available for her where it wasn't about the sex anymore. It was about making sure I met the moment in that bedroom to heal her. And when she cried, it was just a beautiful thing.

And that's why the writer bought it. But that came from the work. Like you're saying with the seals, you know, how many times you try to do the rope climb if you're not trained, if you haven't exercised those muscles, it's not going to happen. So even if you read all of our books, if these men are out training in real time where it matters the most practicing when it matters the most in those moments you're going to blow it and so that's what's real important is like i'm looking at your books man and i'm like it should be some bad brothers out here yeah but it's a difference between you know reading it and then

applying it man it's like uh jiu jitsu man you could have hicks and gracy himself come and teach you a course and you could read his books and he could show you the videos and the first time you get on the mat, you're going to get worked. Because you've got to do the thing. Yeah, second and third time, 10th time.

It doesn't matter. Yeah. Going on here, the masculine male feels threatened when another man is more successful. The comprehensive man is not threatened to buy another man's success, but inspired by it.

Seems so common sense. And yet look at what drives our world right now. The masculine male views women, as subservient and sex objects. The comprehensive man respects women and values their superior qualities. The masculine male feels fear but will do anything to prevent anyone

from knowing he is scared. The comprehensive man feels fear but openly admits it and thereby makes wise life decisions. It's a real liberator to be able to say, oh yeah, I'm nervous right now. I'm scared about this thing. I know I went through that

with like, you guys and going into combat. And you could see him, brother. They're scared. Because you might die. Yeah, I mean, is it. And you don't want to let your friends down. And you don't want to see your friends get wounded or killed.

And you've never done it before. And so you see, you know, a guy goes to the bathroom four times in 20 minutes. You're like, oh, he's scared. His stomach is turning. And so go say, hey, man. I just saw you go to the bathroom four times 20 minutes. You scared? No, I'm not scared.

Hey, bro. You're scared. It's all good. I'm scared too. We're going to be all right. That's us getting focused right now. And as soon as they recognize that, it's like, oh, okay. Okay.

You liberated. I mean, just me hearing you say it, you know, as much as I admire you, you know, it's like, it's liberating, you know. And if your team, that's what Joe speaks highly of you, you know, your leadership in being the example, you know, a lot of these guys just talking and it's not real life. And so to actually see it, someone you respect and he's still human, it's like, you give them the permission to be human. It's like, okay, but I'm not gonna succumb to this. So that's the other side.

Yeah, we're gonna get our gear on it, we're gonna go. There you go, that's good, man. Wow. The masculine male is a slave to his thoughts and emotions. The comprehensive man masters his emotions before his thoughts become toxic. And going on in the pages that fall we'll explore the 10 characteristics of the comprehensive man covering each vital area of a man's

life I like to think of these characteristics as part of three general themes the dynamic characteristics call you to take action the deeper characteristics inspired you to look within and the devotion characteristics focus on your closest relationships and we're going to jump into some of these you've got the dynamic characteristics are you've mentioned some of these already the fighter the provider the leader then you get the deeper characteristics the lover the nerd the gentleman the friend and then finally the devotion characteristics the husband the father the son and Take a look at some of these things here and I feel like you and I could talk for like oh easy weeks But that's why hey get the book because you go into so much detail and

It provides different perspectives and different angles of the issue so For me, that's how you gain understanding of things. You know, you want to learn an arm lock, cool, learn the arm lock from the mount, learn the arm lock from a cross side, learn the arm lock from the guard, learn the arm lock from the back. Each one of those perspectives,

you'll understand the arm lock better, and every one of your arm locks will become better than it was before. And that's what I feel like the book does is gives different perspectives on these different characteristics. The first one you talk about here, the fighter. The fighter discerns, when to engage and when to walk away.

He masters his ego and emotions to ensure he stays in an advantageous position. Boy, is that smart. Yeah, yeah. That was my, typically we would put quotes at the beginning of each chapter. And I'm like, well, wait a minute. How about putting the definitions for each characteristic at the beginning? And at the end of the book, it becomes a man's creed when he says them all together. Yep.

Yeah. So. This is interesting. He masters his ego and emotions to ensure he stays in an advantageous position. So you got this, you mentioned it earlier. I didn't cover it. It can get the book. So I can't,

I'm not going to read the whole book. But you got this earthquake of emotions. And what you talk about here is anger, right? Anger's kind of the one that bubbles over the surface. For the Hawaiians here, this is like the volcano, the magma coming out. Lava.

Lava. Underneath, what's leading to the anger? The anger is just what you see, but underneath that is distrust, lust, anxiety, fear, loneliness, insecurity. And I kind of think that if you put ego underneath all those, like, what do we fear? Fearing? We're fearing that we're going to look bad. Why do we distrust? Because I don't want to get, I don't want to be the guy that, that looks like a weak over here.

Lust. What are we trying to prove? How much of that is just ego trying to prove something? Loneliness, I don't want to be alone. My ego doesn't want to be alone. Insecurity, clearly ego. So many of these things, and I know when it comes to actually getting in fights with people, if you take away alcohol of the ego, there'd be peace.

Egos leads to so much. I do. I don't know. I was talking on the Joe Rogan podcast. about an incident where there was a road rage incident and both the guys had concealed carry and they killed each other. It was a mission.

In front of their families. Yeah, they were with their families and not one could disengage. They pull over, arguing, start shooting, kills each other. And I often ask men, I say, look, imagine yourself lying in your own blood while looking up at your family crying and you're taking your last breath.

Ask yourself, is it worth it? Or was it worth it? And it's not. I had to learn many times like, hey, my son is in the car. This is one I'm not going to do. It's not worth it. At the end of the day, it's just not. I tell a story of a bus driver who nearly runs me and Nicole, my wife, off the road.

And I pull up to the side, of course, to see, you know, what's going on, you know. And I see his body language, you know, basically pointing at me. I know he's using profanity, so I ignore it. Keep going. Point to the, about your, the ego. We're going to the same shopping mall. He follows us. Parks the smart bus and walks aggressively over to my wife and I. I'm armed. And I know once you cross three feet in my radius, it's a threat to me. Like I have to, it's, I'm not fighting you. There's no jiu-jitsu. I'm killing you. By the way, pause. Echo, you're about to hear just the very legit activities going on.

Listen to this line because this is great. The book, go ahead. Yeah. And so he comes over to me and I tell him, I tell him to stop right there. I said, because once you cross this, it's a problem. And he didn't know I was armed, but I was, my wife is with me. And I was going to, he would have died that day because I'm not grappling with you and my wife is here. Okay.

And I'm armed. So anyway, what's interesting to your point, Jaco, about the ego, I had to make sure that was in check because now I wanted to act like a human being. Because once I have to go to animal mode or lion mode, there is no more conversation. And this wasn't that type of aggression. For you to stop, and I tell you to stop, let me know where I was in this situation. And so we started communicating and I allowed room for us to be men and humans, and we were able to work through this and shook hands and walked away.

And the main thing was knowing that I'm still a man because I didn't try to just completely punked this man out. Because the old me would have had, it had to be unequivocally, Jason was the dog in this situation. But as Nicole was protected, I said, you know what?

Now it's time for me to practice what I teach. And in that moment, long as I'm in control, no one's harmed, no one's in danger, let's communicate. One of my boxing coaches will always say if once, if we always have to go to fighting, we're no different from the animals. If we can't reason or talk through conflict, you know, when the last time you seen a movie with two, I guess, gangsters or not gangsters, just say two men who were in conflict, resolve it verbally. And so again, it goes back to your point, which I love again how you put the uncle in your book. We need examples of it for our sons to see. And so I was in that moment, I didn't know what was going to happen. This guy was a big fellow walking towards me.

But to be able to end there with peace was worth it. No one injured. And again, people miss, yeah, you arm now, but if you kill someone, you got money to pay. You see, it's a lot more. You're going to jail instantly. Go to jail instantly. Yeah, yep. That's like when you take the concealed carry course,

yeah, out here in California, it's, what is it, a two-day course, Echo Charles? Yeah. Well, yeah. It's three. So it's probably, I don't know, 20 hours or 21 hours, let's say.

18 of those hours are telling you all the trouble that you're going to get in if you use your weapon. Like, they're trying to let you know what's up. I've been looking for the line in the book because you, which one? What you actually said to that guy is like you're entering my three-foot arc zone of safety.

And if you proceed further, it will result in your... Yeah, I did, yeah, I did. It was very robocopies. Yeah, it was like full robocop activities. And I was like, yeah, that's kind of like one of those things where, you know, when someone is just very cool, calm, and collective, and you go, oh, this guy knows, my friend Hoyler Gracie, he was surfing. He's...

He's... Of course, yes, yeah. And some guy started talking smack to him, you know, out in the water. And Hoyler said, hey, man, I surf for fun. I fight for a living. If you want to go to the beach, let me know. The guy's like, I think I'm good. Wow.

Well, yeah, that's in the fighter chapter. That's actually, I think that's in the gentleman chapter. I talk about the alpha alpha male. Yeah, it is in a gentleman chapter. We'll find it. We'll find it. We'll find it. It sure is.

Yeah. Next section. Next characteristic. The provider, the provider ensures the provision of essential resources, guidance, and support for his family, friends. community and himself. So that's what we're doing. We missed it himself though.

A lot of us do as men. We don't provide for ourselves. And that's what makes it living miserable when somebody, everyone is living off the fruit of our labor and we don't take care of ourselves and what's deep. How many times have you heard wives encourage husbands to go on vacations or trips with their boys and we don't? You know, we think that we got to worry about terrorists

breaking in the house. We got to hold down the fort. It's like, my wife they have girls trips. She's literally like, look, I plan it. Don't worry about anything. Get three of your friends. Get out of here. And a recent study said that for our mental health, men need at least two

hang nights a week because we don't do it. We're stuck in performance mode. Must have turned in jihitsu. Yeah, it's true. It's part of it. 100%. Oh yeah. No, that's the camarader as we talked about earlier. It's very important. Yeah, but even outside of Jiu Jitsu, you still need that time.

The crazy thing is, especially if you train with Echo Charles, you're going to get hang time. This guy over here, hey, look, you get a solid hour of training. You get a solid hour. He's like a one-to-one ratio. He's wanting to tell you about all kinds of things going on, you know? But I'm here for you, bro. We're here for each other.

That's part of our thing. But that's what I loved about the Jiu-Jitsu community was different from a lot of the R-Side training. The camaraderie was just, yeah. The intimacy of jujitsu. Like I can say this. You know, you know, like you just brohug people? Sure.

I did not do that until jiu jitsu. It wasn't part of my thing. It was like, no, like, hey, dude, you keep your distance. It was kind of like, hey, you're entering my arc of, you know, safety if you get in here. But once you change jitsu, you say, three foot zone. You're out in my three foot zone. Do not proceed. Oh my goodness.

That's real, though. Yeah, there's a lot of men like that, like that. To this day, right now. Oh, my goodness. Next one. And by the way, you have so much deep. Each one of these is a chapter. I'm kind of skimming through it here.

Next one's the leader. The leader guides and inspires others. He knows when to speak and when to listen. Leading by example, not intimidation. One of the notes that you made in this section was, I think this is an important thing to talk about, you can't save everyone. And this is a heavy burden, especially, like,

so the first book I wrote is called Extreme Ownership. And that is a very heavy burden to bear, right? When you're in a leadership position, you own everything. And so some people, they'll interpret that as, you know, Echo Charles works for me. I'm responsible for his actions. I take ownership of everything he does. Totally true.

So what do you do when Echo is not showing up to work? He's showing up to work late. He's not accomplishing his job. Well, you take ownership of that. Hey, Echo, did I make this clear to you? Hey, Echo, do you need more training? Hey, Echo, is everything going on okay at home? Like, is there anything else you need from me?

Do you need more resources so you can get the job? All those things. But eventually, you can have someone that does not belong in that position. You can have someone. that you for all you can't save them. And then the priority of the team takes precedence over the priority of one individual. Because now I'm dedicating all my time and effort

and focus on Echo and I'm not paying attention to the rest of the team. And by the way, he's letting the whole team down and now we're not getting the jobs that we were trying to get. You know, we were putting bids in on jobs, but it was costing us a little bit more. We were performing late. They get bad Yelp review because Echo didn't.

See what I'm saying? So you can't save everyone. Same thing, you know, when you're interacting with other people. and I know in your position, you know, you've got story upon story of people that couldn't save. Yeah, and like, especially with the students that come and you don't reach them all, and I would stay up late and overextending myself going over the house and trying to help the parent resolve an issue with their son.

And I learned I was reading the scriptures when Yeshua or Jesus was Mary poured the oil on his head, and the disciples were upset because they could have sold it. was expensive to feed those in need. And Yeshua, he said that the poor will always be with you, but I will not. So Mary was there in the moment. She knew what she was doing. But the disciples weren't. They were thinking about the cost.

What I learned and took from that teaching as well is that there will always be boys in need. There will be. But am I in the moment? Am I teaching to those he wants me to teach in that moment? because some will leave, just like if I'm a shepherd. I will leave the 99 to go after the one, but I can't neglect the 99. And as a youth worker or a minister or leader and you really care and you're working with the kids,

sometimes you'll think it's your fault that they made that mistake. That liberated me like, no, I gave you everything you needed. You made that mistake, but I still be here for you. And so now I can go to bed when I need to go to bed. eyes tell them I'm going to teach you. I'm going to give you everything you want. I actually do an analogy where I take an empty glass and I grab a picture of water for every new group that starts. I say, this glass represents you. This picture and its contents, the picture represents me and the contents. This water represents the love, the discipline, the sacrifice, my commitment

and other qualities that I'm going to pour into you. So then I start filling the cup up all the way to the brim right when it's about to spill over. And I put the picture down and I asked the class, what has to happen now for me to pour more water into this glass? And then look, they said, well, we have to drink it. I say, exactly. What I used to do, I would keep pouring. And now all of my effort is wasted. Until you drink everything that I give you in here, I can't pour anymore. And if you leave with this full cup, that's on you. You can always come back. but I don't worry anymore. I pray for you, but there's another boy

that just came in as you walked out. That's the importance of me being in the moment because there will always be someone in need. I understand that now. It's not my job to save everyone, but save the ones that come and those that I can. I can lose myself and my family in the process of going after who he doesn't want me to go after.

Yeah, it's a perfect metaphor, and it's the same thing. You know, when I was just talking about echo, I'm pouring water in echo. give you more training you know sit down with you give you counseling mentor you but eventually if you're not drinking that water I can't I can't help you you can't echo well I know not echo but the person that we're trying to have metaphorical you know he would cause more harm to the whole mission you know and so

unfortunately you have to learn to allow people to leave you know and develop and Trust what you've poured into them will come, you know, full circle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. Getting into part two here, the deeper characteristics. And this one starts off with the lover. Echo Charles. Yes, sir. Just checking.

Does it make it sure you're with me? The lover knows that love is demonstrated through action, devotion to Yah, loving his neighbors, and maintaining his own well-being. And this was, to highlight one section of this, you talk about, or on the last podcast you mentioned that you don't talk about self-love, you talk about maintenance, which is, you know,

a more approved term we can use as men. Proved manly term we got going on there. So you talk about that in here. Yes. preserve energy and time. Declining allows you to channel your resources and activities that truly matter. Gain respect for boundaries.

Saying no establishes healthy boundaries and garners respect from others. So there's a movie right now. I haven't seen it yet. It's about Elvis Presley. Have you seen it since it's called Elvis? And my wife watched it, but she said it was heartbreaking.

because Elvis was Elvis and everyone was taken from Elvis. They just took from him. And, you know, he, they fed him the drugs that he needed to keep him going. They gave him the bad food. They kept him, you know, sedated. They got him up on stage.

They pushed him out on stage. They took, they took, they took. And it was just a terrible story. And that, that's, you know, it's kind of, like what you're talking. You could lose your family trying to help kids, trying to help other people. You have to set some boundaries. I didn't know that about him. Yeah. It seems like a common thing for celebrity singers and entertainers. Michael Jackson was similar. Yeah. That's unfortunate,

man. Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, it's, I think especially, you know, these, when you're a young artists and you get an opportunity and you sign that contract especially in the old days you know these people would sign contracts and they'd give away everything and they would get nothing in return well they think they'd be getting something in return but they would get totally worked over they would get the fame but not the fortune yeah um enhance well-being avoiding situations that generate stress or discomfort nurtures your mental and emotional well-being. Your choice not to attend matters because your decision directly impacts your own experience. Yeah, a lot of people I was talking to how do you turn it down? Like when you get the money, you get the success

and people invite you to come to an event and they try to make you feel guilty for not attending. I'm like, well, if your event isn't a success because I'm not there, maybe you don't need to have the event. You know what I'm serious? It's like, I'm tired. I need to be with my family. I need to recover. And I don't see my name on the flyer.

You know, so I have no guilt anymore telling people I can't go. You know, and then people who are demanding, like, well, I need an answer now. Well, my wife will tell you, that's going to be no. Because if you're rushing me, it's best to say no because I say yes, I'm a commit to it.

I say, oh, no, you need the answer now? Oh, it's no. Because I've had time to really process it. and make sure it's a good decision for me, you know. It's like, I'm over it, man. It's like you're not pressing me into anything anymore. You know, everyone had a saying, don't get caught up in everyone's calling

because you could miss your calling from him, you know? And it's like when you're popular, you seem like you have the antidote to so much, you're good. It's like a natural resource until they wear you out. Then they go on to the next and to the next. I'm okay, man. And, you know, I work my way out, you know, from my home. I don't need the accolades from people.

And none of that. It means it's encouraging. But I know accolades are like the breeze. It's going to go. It's just, you know, it is. All glory is fleeting. It is. It is.

But when you, your family who really love you and for who you really are, I work from that space, you know, like a woman couldn't, there's not one woman who could flirt with me and compliment me more than my wife has. So it means it literally is like, I see you coming from a mile away. I already heard this. I already felt this. My kids tell me how great you are, dad, get me a plaque, greatest dad, it's in my office. Like, that hangs up. None of my awards.

That's in my office to keep me locked in. And that's what matters, man. When we're old men, I tell all these men, like building all these buildings for corporations, when we're sitting on our front porch, 70, 80 years old, those buildings are going to forget us. Those people are going to forget us. Only thing will be on our hearts of mind is my wife next to me and where are the kids. Nothing else matters, man. It just doesn't.

It's vain attempts for affirmation that many men seek because they didn't. get it, then when they get it now, they're stuck in the performance cycle and their lives of misery. And it's just not worth it. Just pull back. Like you say, reset. We see the problem. It's reset.

This isn't the life. This isn't the path. Acknowledge what's going on for real. You know, what you didn't get and let's do something about it. And that's why, you know, your book's on leadership is important because we think we know how to lead, but we don't. You know, we, it's a lot of it is, is an intent. It is do what I say.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah, real leadership is very counterintuitive. You know, it's, your instinct is, well, if I want my kid to do something, I just bark orders out of them and they better do it. It's like, nope, that's not the way it works. It's not the way it works with your kids, not the way it works with your team, with work. Was the friends?

Ryan, Ryan, the guy Ryan made, I told you with Psychologist for the Seals, he told me, and I never forgot this because Shalom has like high anxiety when we, my kaba poo from the last episode. He has high anxiety in the car. on car rise, you know. And he said when he would train dogs, the thing they would teach is never let the stress go down on the leash. Oh, yeah.

I said, hmm. And so it made me pondered like, does Shalom feel any anxiety from in our home? You know, when I'm in the car, am I anxious now because he's going crazy or am I staying still? So now, just recently, I stayed calm. I made him stay in his seat. So everything's cool and it worked and I know this because of what I do But when you have a dog going crazy in your car

You lose it for that moment but I'm like wait a minute I'm the leader here I got to set the tone and as men we want to be respected and treated as leaders But then we miss the moment when it requires for us to really lead We start looking at where everyone else isn't doing instead of getting in the mirror say like you said What am I doing? Am I giving you this? Are you yet doing you have the right tools for this. As a father, am I patient? Did I really ask him? Did I offend him? Am I really present, son? Is there anything else dad could be doing more of that would make your life better? Those are things leaders do. And it requires for you to sit there. Like you say, and listen

and don't judge your children like, what do you need? Dad, I would love for you to be more intentional. Put the phone down when you come home. I advise men if you're feeling a disconnection, leave the phones at home and go for a walk. And they always come back like, wow, my relationship with my daughter or son is completely different now. Because in that moment, if you're jaco, everyone knows you, you're literally telling your children,

I stop this world for you. And we're going to walk and it's slow. We're not getting around this block anytime soon. And that means a world to the children, man. And to the staff and to echo when he's out here. Charles, be late. Prioritized self-maintenance not now allows you to prioritize your needs, enabling you to recharge and show up more fully later in areas you select,

including those connected to your family job and more. Promote authenticity, embracing refusal of fosters authenticity as you live in alignment with your purpose open opportunities saying no to the wrong opportunities create space for the right ones strengthen confidence asserting your choices boost your conference and reaffirms your independence from the desires and urgencies of others oh boy yeah what's that sign they hang up like your your lack of planning doesn't create doesn't mean my emergency yeah something like that yeah doesn't constitute and emergency emergency.

Yeah, that's what it is. Exactly. The next one, the nurturer. The nurturer cultivates growth and development caring for individuals and environments

within their influence and beyond. How does this play a role? Major, especially, I use myself as an example. As far as nurturing with the boys that I work with, that also entails me

nurturing their parents. Everyone is involved in that child's life. I can't tell you how many mothers have cried, literally in my arms, for giving them the opportunity to just be mom. Because now I say, look, if the father's in active in his life,

let us be that. Because he needs you to be mom. He needs the nurturing side. And that's what the disconnect comes with so many single mothers is because they have to now become part of dad. The son doesn't need that for mom. I can say,

in no situations, he does need it, but he desires the nurturing and the love of mom. Majority of fights happened, not because kids talked about our dads. You said something about mom, right? Why? Not because mom was a disciplinarian. It's because mom was loving, caring, always gave me second and third chances. The other guy, that was dad, you know?

And so deliberate them to nurture mom and then also nurture dad along through the process to bringing, I've had so many beautiful. moments where sons and fathers can reconcile. Literally fathers in different states because of the popularity of the cave of Adelham and what I do, there come. Then I slowly reel them in and nurture them. I understand. Empathetic. What's your story? I never met a father who wasn't actively in his son's life or daughter's life that didn't love them. There was always a story. So to be a great coach, you've got to be a great nurturer. The greatest coach's beyond the physical aspect of what you're doing.

You get into their head. You get into their lives. Like Green Bay's legendary coach of Vince Lombardi. It was more than football. It was life. And that's what's missing from coaching. And a part in there I talk about comprehensive coaching. I got it right here highlighted.

You got to do more, especially now, because a lot of the athletes, their entire lives are visible now. And so now you're not only dealing with their parents And what they've been through, you're dealing with the social media aspect and the NIL and everything else. Like, how can you help this kid process these things? And lastly, when I'm speaking was at Damien Lillard's camp, a Formula Zero, which was really cool. And to hear these young boys, he had the top 40 recruits in the country.

And to hear them express this pressure of having to put on or put up for mom, basically make to the NBA. so the family be taken care of. I helped them by nurturing them through that moment. Like, look, I understand the pressure, but I need you to be, again, to our point in the previous podcast, I need you to be 16-year-old Tommy, 17-year-old Tommy, 13-year-old Tommy. You're not supposed to provide for them.

They're supposed to provide for you. And I asked them, I said, do you think you were created to play basketball? And then look at me, were like um no no one's ever asked me that so where is this pressure coming from you can't do this forever you created to do more than that that comes from a nurturing spirit to be present and caring doesn't mean i'm coddling them or won't push them that's nurturing as well i love you so much that i'm a sacrifice my body which is i'm in great pain to make sure you get this lesson today

I have had my kids. I can't hit my students. Y'all can hit me because I need you to feel what it feels like to be powerful. To get past your fears. The scripture says, faithful are the wounds of a friend.

So I'm your friend. I love you. I take yours, though, for you. That's nurturing as well. And so when we get past the nurturing is exclusive to women and really look at what it is, it's a great quality.

that makes us great leaders. And if more leaders, world leaders especially, led even from the principles of your book, this world would be better. If leaders could show some empathy and says, you know what, I'm not going to bomb that city. I need to meet with the leader again because there's so many people lives at risk

because of this decision is rooted in wanting to make sure I'm seeing a certain way that I'm not taking advantage of. So again, nurturing looks different from men, and that's why I say this world is in dire need of a nurturing love from a man, because it's different from a woman. It's strong, but yet it's gentle. It's safe. There's peace there. And that's why I really stress the point of men being nurturers and not being milk sop, okay, but being a nurturer.

It's an interesting thing that I would try and explain to young leaders in the military. So when you join the military In a leadership role They tell you take care of your people Take care of your people take care of your people take care of your people Take care of your people It's beat into your head But people misconstrue what that means

And it's the same You know thing that you're talking about Taking care of your people Doesn't mean coddling them It doesn't mean what you call it of A milk what you call it? Milk soap It's like you soak bread

And it's just like You take the soft That is not good. That is not taking care of your people. No, it's not. Taking care of your people is pushing them. It is making sure that they have discipline. It is making sure that they're well trained.

It is make sure that they are not in their comfort zone. That is a form, if not the form of nurturing. It's also what you did for the young man who was scared. Kept using a restroom. Yeah. Yeah. You went where he was says, look, we all scared right now. That's nurturing.

You helping to do. develop him to get past that moment. And that's what's wild. You know, as I was thinking about your, the idea of scaling the cave, trying to get other people to understand how to read a young kid that's going through. Because I work with leaders. And I go to work with a construction company. I go to work with a finance company.

I go to work with an insurance company. I go to work with the manufacturing company. the leaders the questions that i'm going to get asked they all have the same roots so i'm assuming that in your role when you see a kid start to cry you're like oh it's going to be one of these three things you're not you're not being jerk you're not not listening to them but you're like okay this kid's got oh he's mentioned that's gonna go here

and you learn how to interact with people in a certain way you can pull the string you can get to the root of the problem and you have a solution there Like you tell me a problem, you got a problem with one of your employees or you got a problem with your boss. I can start pulling the thread and it's almost like, remember those choose your own adventure books? It was books. It was like you, if you want to go left, go to page 20. If you want to go right, go to page 19.

So I feel like when I'm talking to someone that's in a leadership position, I'm basically just just pulling the thread and I'm going to, is it left or right? Oh, it's right. Okay. You have an employee that has a bad attitude. Is he, how long has he been with you? a year. Okay, cool. So you don't know them that well.

But what's your relationship like? Do you know them well or not really? Not really. Okay, so you don't spend it way. And I can kind of just narrow it down and eventually go, hey, you know what you need to do is build a relationship with that person? Give them some more responsibility so they feel like they're more valuable. And they go, okay, I'll give that a try.

And it works. So I'm sure that you have that as well. Yes. With these kids, that's going to be a hard thing to scale. But I do believe. that it is scalable. I do believe that you can train people where they go, where they can identify problems

and they can move through and they'll build to help these kids out. Yes, I do. And that's one of the reasons I wrote this book as well because that would be the trainer-trainer manual as well. So if you can navigate

through all 10 of those, you understand pretty much all that a young boy is going to deal with. And you got to go do it. You got to do it. You got to go do it because... I have things in place where I can test teachers

with kids and see how you respond. And I need a kid. David, I gave you $150 to not listen to this instructor today. I want to see how he responds. We do a lot of that too. We do a lot of role play. Yes, sir. It's like, oh, I trust me, I can be the most combative employee you've ever met.

You're like, and I'm good. You know, like you got all your little leadership solutions. I got answers for all those that are going to make things worse. That's excellent. But, yeah, so, you know, you mentioned this, this, the five Cs of comprehensive coaching. Just great stuff. Yeah. Constructive approach, character development, cognitive performance, compassionate communications, Christ-centered.

These are just solid things that I think will really help people out as they try and move through this. Moving to the next one. The gentleman. The gentleman exudes respect for others and himself through deliberate and approach. etiquette without compromising his values and this idea of etiquette goes back to Something we talked about on the last podcast which is protocols like there is a protocol That people don't learn for this interaction with a person that you've just met for the first time this this interaction as you go into an office and you're wanting help this protocol when you sit down in in the book you lay out a you know etiquette at dinner.

Yes. Those are the kind of things that we don't have protocols for, and it's not good. It's not good. The reason I, well, I had experience with my dad, he would pick me up on Monday, that was his quarter-pointed date, a day for us to spend time together. Make a long story short, you know, we went to my favorite restaurant at the time, Red Lobster, and I had no idea when we were eating that I wasn't practicing good dining etiquette.

He never taught me. So he drops me off at my mother's house and I'm thinking everything was good. Then about maybe 10 to 15 minutes later, I hear my mother yelling and arguing with someone. I go in her room. I say, Mom, what's going on? She said, that was your dad. He was upset at me for not teaching you how to eat at the table. So as a young boy that hurt me because I'm in a car with you, you didn't say a word.

I'm at dinner with you. You didn't teach me. But yet you condemn me to my mother who you. you thought she should teach your son how to eat correctly at the table. And so that wound, once I was able to heal it, I said, I'm going to create a training for young men that they'll never have to go through that. And dining etiquette is so important. Jocko, I can't tell you how many jobs I got when I was in construction, just how I presented

myself at the business dinner. Or at breakfast, one job I got is funny. I'm with a contractor and I have my portfolio. We didn't have iPhones back then. We had literally pictures with us. And I forgot I hadn't washed my hands. My food, it came. I already cut my pancakes.

I said, excuse me, I need to go wash my hands. So I go to the restroom, wash my hands, come back. And I'm going to show my portfolio. And he says, no, I don't need to see your work. You got the job. I'm like, how do you give me the job and you have been seeing my work? And he points to my pancake. He says, anyone who cuts me,

their pancakes like this can cut my towel. And when I looked down, they were symmetrically cut, like a pie chart, literally. And I had no idea the practice that became a part of who I was. And I have young kids who would go off to college. They would get scholarships solely off how they conducted themselves at the dining table. And they would text me, Mr. Wilson, it works.

I just got a $5,000 scholarship or $10,000 scholarship because that's where a lot of business is done. How many young our sons when they want to go on their first date or finally maybe take the woman out of their dreams and one of the greatest intimidations for a lot of men is what do I do with the silverware? How do I enter the table, exit the table, you know, which fork is for what? I mean, it's a lot there. But I love teaching it from a combat perspective as well. So when we teach them how to hold the knife and the fork, we actually use it like its train. And so the kids love it and they learn how to balance the knife and the fork here.

Put your index finger at the neck of the fork. And when they cut on the test, we have tough peter bread and they can't scratch the plate. So I'm teaching them. What is it like a paper plate or you just mean audio wise? No, the audio why. I don't want to hear any scraping of the plate. Once you cut, take your time to cut it up and use that fork to control that piece of peter bread. And then you got to cut it into four pieces.

So now if you have a steak, I don't have to worry about. you butchering it at the table. You know how to use your utensils and how to eat correctly. And, you know, the napkin placement, how do you, do you fold it or do you just throw it up there when you have to go use the restroom?

And the confidence these young boys get and then the fathers who are looking like, hey, I need to do some of this training as well. And it's more than just about the dining experience. It's about the social gathering as well because a lot of our children are disconnected. They don't know how to communicate because they use their phones.

And so without dining etiquette training, they can't have their phones at the table. And they're graded upon conversation as well. Like, can you make a conversation entertaining or engaging? And it's really a beautiful thing to see when kids get the epiphany, like, I don't need my phone to communicate. Because this is what real life is, you know. It depends on what circles you're in.

And so that's the gentleman, especially the shivery peasant. peace. You know, it's very important to teach our boys how to be respectful and kind, not just to women, but elderly people as well, you know. For me, I have affinity for the elderly care because of me caring for my mother. But, you know, I think every man, if you're strong, you should be the protector of those who are weak. And same thing with women. You're not pandering to them. It's a cold of honor. Literally shivery was a code of honor for medieval nights. Like, how did we let that go to your point in the last podcast?

In this book, The Way the Warrior Kid, at one point the uncle says, you know, if you want to be a warrior, you gotta go and research what being a warrior actually is. And so he goes and he goes and researches in the library and he gets the Navy Seal code, the Ranger Creed, the, he gets the Bouchido code, or the, what is it, the seven Bouchido characteristics,

and he has the, the Viking code in there, and he's got the chivalry, the code of chivalry in there. All those different things. And then he assembles his own code. And this is another thing that's in the book is he doesn't get issued a code from his uncle. His uncle doesn't say, you're a warrior kid.

This is how a warrior kid behaves. He takes all those ideas and he plies him into his life. And then he comes up with his own warrior kid code. This is how I'm going to live. You know what's so back to the book a little bit. as I was reading this section, right? It's talking about, you know, dressing nice and tucking your shirt in and all this stuff. And I'm super laid back.

Like you can see me a tagger shorts and flip flop. That's what I wear. T-shirt short flip-flop. That's kind of my thing. And I was kind of like, oh, you know, I can't really relate to that. And then it just, I'm so, it's so crazy because I am so particular about, like, I have a consultant. and company asked on front, this is the uniform. Like this is what you're gonna wear, we all wear it.

Like, you shave, you have a haircut, you have, you know, the pants, the belt, the polo shirt, the black t-shirt, like it's all a thing. And what's funny is, in the military, I was very strict about how my guys looked, making sure that they were wearing the proper uniforms, making sure that they were wearing uniform things. And then there's this old saying, and I realized that, you know, you get a lot of your DNA when you're in your first seal platoon and you get a lot of your

DNA from like hearing from the older guys in the seal platoons well when I was a young seal one of the mantras back then was avoid wearing a uniform at all costs mean avoid wearing your full navy uniform at all costs but if you have to wear it look perfect and that is exactly I want to wear a t-shirt and surf shorts and sandals but when it's time to go to work I'm going to I'm going to look as squared away as I possibly can't

And that's what my mentor's I talked about in that chapter he was wise He says why isn't your shirt tucked in And I'm like I don't need to wear my shirt tucked in I'm just chilling you know I'm just going to And he just looked at me and kept Continue to write and he's a multimillionaire very successful Yeah

And when I went to go for this estimate Not to self Exactly I said you know I'm going to tuck my shirt I'm going to tuck my shirt in this time. I got a contract I had never gotten in that area in Michigan. And the guy said it was my presentation. My hat was embroidered.

My logo was embroidered. Shirt tucked in. I didn't have my work boots on for estimates. I had two sets of boots, one for work and one for estimates. Had to take measure for work, take measure for estimates. When I'm in these multi-million dollar homes, you don't want thin set falling off while you're measuring in a kitchen countertops. So I learned like, this is skill.

And even one of my mentors, when it took me a little bit longer to get into like what this is really about, he knew I love martial arts. He says, I'm going to tell you this. He says, you're wearing the wrong armor to the fight. He says, you're the circles you're in now. You need to look a certain way for right now. And then you get to the level of Steve Jobs. You can wear a T-shirt and Levi's. And you go back again.

Yeah. He said, but until you get there, wear the right armor for the fight. And it was a major difference in all of my networking and business dealings. It changed a lot. And I, you know, I tell the young boys, they wear their du rags in public. And I say, well, what's the original intent of this du rag? Where is it meant to be worn? They said, home, shirab.

They called me that. It's the sense. Sharaff, in Hebrew means servant. I said, well, why do you have it on in here? And even with my son with the dishwasher, that's his thing there. Like, he doesn't watch this. He just throws them in the dishwasher. And I'm looking for like utensils or dishes like where where's everything?

They're in the dishwasher. I'm like, okay, stop for it. Wait a minute. Do you live in a bathtub? He says, of course not that. I say the dishwasher is not the proper place to store the dishes. This equipment is meant to wash everything. When it's done, you take everything out and put it where it belongs in the cabinets.

I'm a trip at home. That's why we can talk forever because I see where it like. but it's like I'm not wrong that's the inventor of this did not make this dishwasher for dishes to be stored so let's use it for what it's for and so it's funny when you talk

to kids in a way that's respectful and then like encouraging to really think a little deeper they change you know and so that's what's really cool and especially like flip flops like we went you know Andy Fasella right so that's my guy so he's

sponsored the cave to come out to first form I say on the note for the parents, no slides, flip flops, none of that, you can't wear any of that. Why? I said, well, first and foremost, from a combat perspective, I would love for you to have on some slides trying to fight me. Okay. Secondly, you're not lounging where we're going. And so Andy and his team at first form, they did an amazing job with us, showing them the

business side of how things are done. And when they were finished, they were like, wow. So you do have us put the chair under the table for a reason. Like that's where it belongs. Did you see anything out of order in first form? The dumbbells, even the way they're turned, everything is lined up perfectly. There's nothing wrong with that. It depends on where and who you want to be around in life.

And so it's a certain criteria. I mean, you come to our building, it's spotless. Our kids like, no, this is how it's supposed to be. It's not supposed to be dirty. My car is clean. My kids are saying, Mr. Wilson, whenever your car is ever dirty, I said, when should it be dirty? You're saying it like I'm wrong for keeping it clean. My car should stay clean if I can help it.

You know, so those are principles with teaching. You see a mark on the wall. Wipe it off. It doesn't belong there. Or the kids, all our kids do all the janitorial work of the building. We pay them instead of outsourcing it to a janitorial company. Awesome. It's one wall in our cold plunge room.

For some reason, they keep hitting my wall with the tools. And I said, you know what? This is the last time. I said, because this isn't making sense. All of you are teenagers. You're not paying attention. I say, and I'm not going to paint this wall dark so that you can continue to doing something not the correct way.

I said, so the next time I have to patch this wall and paint it, it's coming out of your check. I say, because there's no reason for you to keep nicking my wall. The principle is what? Attention to detail. Stay focused. What is causing you to jam hit my mom? Are you rushing?

You shouldn't be rushing because we have enough time allotted for everything to be done in excellence. And so they're missing the jocles of the world, the echoes myself, in the everyday environment. When they don't see it, they can't be it. And then you wonder why communities look the way they do because it's an absence of us or men who, could be on that level. They just need the nurturing or the coaching and then they got to have the application to do it. But yeah, man, it's all

about, I'm just like you, man, like everything I mean, on the table, everything is lined up. If you meet my wife, she'll tell you like, oh, he's next level. So your car, clean, everything, my home,

when you walk in and we had a guy come out because we saw some bugs come in. He looked on the floor, he was like, well, it's definitely not from your house not being clean. He says, it's the cleanest house I've ever been to in my life. Like, who cleans it? I said, I do. It's a principle.

I like my home in order, you know, and when you show boys that way without condemning them, and they take to it my son, my daughter does it now. They were fighting it their whole childhood, but it's worth it, man. It's worth modeling it. the results even better, man. What'd you do when your daughter had the dirty room? That's when I didn't understand. I was just a masculine male.

I thought it was disrespectful. I would yell. Why can't you do what I need to be done? I'm always the one got to clean up around here. And I completely missed all that she was going through in middle school. And I remember one time when I knew something was wrong, I went to help her with running track, you know. So I surprised her at the school.

And I'm just trying to help, you know, teach the kids how. to run. She comes in a circle with all her friends and me and yells, why are you here? I want, you shouldn't even be here. And that crushed me. And so I was in her space, you see, but I hadn't developed, to your point, the relationship. I wanted it, but I overstepped my bounds because she didn't really, she looked at that action of love as me being protective dad, trying to make sure everything is correct. But was deep, Jocko, when she came, I had, to go back in the school because she had forgot something. She had already been in the car with Nicole. I get back in the car. I said, I found that everything is good. And when I turned back around,

I hear her burst out into tears. And she just started crying. She said, Daddy, I'm so sorry. I was so mean to you earlier. And I couldn't meet the moment. I didn't know what to say, because I wasn't tapped into my emotions. I wasn't emotionally intelligent. I say, it's okay, baby, I understand. But I should have dug deeper then. Like, what triggered that? What did that do to trigger that response? I don't blame you for that.

That came from somewhere. And I missed that. And that's what I give me in in this book. It's like, you have it. You just got to tap in. Tap into your humanity, what you feel. Stop fearing that. Your kids need all of you,

not just a protector and provider. So now that I'm able to give my daughter that, I mean, she's 29 now. I wish I could go back, but I can't so I don't linger there. I just make the most of where I am now. I want to be more present with my son. I know I could even do even more. Like, what does that take? Can you give me my report card today?

Where is dad at on intentionality? Where is dad at with patience? Where's dad at with understanding and seeking you out, you know. Where am I at, you know? And that's what's really important, man, right now. And so many men, they wanted, but because of the way we were raised, they fear being that way. Like it's somehow we'll make them vulnerable, susceptible to harm or being mistreated or impassively dismissed. And so the comprehensive man, he's courageous, but also compassionate, strong, but sensitive.

He lives from the good at his heart instead of the fear of how he'll be perceived. He's authentically human And that's what I want for men You know stay strong But when a moment requires you to be sensitive Be sensitive Echo Charles Yes

Your daughter's room is not clean What's your protocol I asked her to clean the room She doesn't clean it Discipline or freedom Like the shirt said Discipline equals freedom Yeah

Okay she cleans it But then the next day Two days later it's dirty again. Yeah, clean your room again. Are you asking me, hypothetic? Like, I don't know. Like, in real life?

In real life, yeah. Yeah, we say, we say clean the room. I say clean the room, she cleans her. And then, but, but, like, a couple days later, it's dirty again. You say, say, clean it again. Yeah. Yeah. What about now?

The room cleaning thing is not an issue, I don't think. She keeps it clean? In the house. No, no, not constant clean, but yeah, she shouldn't mess it up for sure, 100%. But even your response now, after this conversation. Yeah. And it's dirty, say back to back, you know, in one week. You still just say clean your room?

Well, I think there's a big, bigger picture here, especially if we're drawing comparison. So I'm not as squared away as you are. So I allow a lot more slack with the room cleaning scenario. But yes, like if one day, let's say, see, nothing's really going on right now. And we'll say, and then I see the room messy. And then I'll be like, okay, yeah, okay, we got to clean the room. She got to clean the room. She cleans the room.

She cleans the room. So I don't think ever in her 11 and a half years, she's ever been like, no, or I will and then not, you know, whatever, you know. She's always clean the room. But then let's say, I don't know what, like every day it's back dirty all the time or whatever. Yeah, I don't think that's ever happened. Even if it did, I don't think I'd make a big deal. I would make a big deal.

But not even making a big deal, but ask her why. You know what I mean? Like literally sit in the room and say, hey, baby, you know, mom and dad expects the room to be clean, but we're noticing that it's becoming dirty more frequently. Like, is anything going on personally? And she may not share, I'm just saying that, you know, there's a cause and effect for every behavior.

And, of course, you know, no parents should be like I was as dogmatic about keeping a room clean. And make that unequivocally clear. I'm saying let's not miss the signs that are there. Yeah. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, for me. I'm not saying a dirty room.

room always equates to something going on in her life that's stressful. But for her not to hear, you know, you know, a request of a parent, you know, like my son's room stays clean a lot. It doesn't mean that he's impervious to drama at school or stress. Like the clean room doesn't equate to your kid. It's all. That's what I'm saying. Are you willing to dive a little deeper, like emotionally? I'm willing and do you dive very deeply emotionally with, both my kids for, uh, for various reasons. I think, but I think you're right though, but when I say, um, different comparisons have to be drawn or whatever since I'm not as squared away or let's say

it's not as high on the priority list as far as like, hey, room needs to be clean. Like the default should be clean, right? That's kind of my I'm like it can look, if it's freaking super speaking span, hey, big up to you for doing it. If it's not, I'm, it's not going to move me either way. If it's chronically dirty or unsanitary or something like, like this, then, okay, I'm going to say something about it. And then I'm going to gauge what's her reaction.

You see what I'm saying? And her reaction typically, or 100% of the time, is positive. Like, she's never talked back. She's never whatever. She's a very nice girl, you know. But yeah, I think it does start with me as, you know, one of the many lessons we've learned today. It starts with me and kind of my, for lack of better term, standard, you know, as far as

just cleanliness in general. It applies other things. You know, it's deep eye sheer transparently where mine came from. mind, this desire for everything in order was my dad, you know. He yelled at me, cursed at me, because I had a hairbrush on the kitchen table. I didn't know it was unsanitary. Instead of teaching me why, he just yelled at me. And as a result, that room turned into, hmm, this means you don't respect me. But my daughter's room would be cluttered, closet packed with clothes, and understanding psychology now, there's a direct correlation to a

a lot of that. It is. And so a lot of times we miss that as parents because we're busy. We have a lot going on. But nothing's more important than that. And that's why I always go back to, Jason, what can you live with? Could you live with being a successful author, but a failure as a dad? No, no, no. I'd rather be a failure as an author and successful as a dad. So that's cool, man. You're locked in with your daughters. And how old are you now? 47. 47, yeah. And, you know, how are your children you said seven my son is 11 right and yeah 11 awesome yeah that's good man yeah um if i could go back that would be my thing i was sit in a dirty room with her and talk you know um like what's going on and that's that's what i missed yeah yeah

yeah this is one of the many many many many things that will come up with the children But it's such a common one, right? Yeah. But, and then you got a, you know, for me, it was always like, for me now, how do I prioritize the relationship, right? And, hey, your room is messy. How much leadership capital am I willing to expend? Because you know what?

If your room is messy, I'll shut the door. My house isn't messy. My house is clean. Now if you have plates and hands in there, then I will take the plates and I will put them on your bed face down, right? Possibly. No, but I wouldn't do that.

I've done that a couple times. Not regularly. Not the normal. But for me, it's like, I want to give my kids as much freedom as I can. And I want to treat them. in a way where they are responsible for what's going on in their world. Case and point, if you got a bunch of clothes on your floor, I know those clothes didn't make it to the hamper,

and I know that I'm not getting washed. So you're going to run out of laundry. So eventually, that kid, whether they're 8, 10, 12, they go, oh, if I want to have clean clothes, I need to move the clothes from the floor to the hamper to the laundry. Otherwise, they're not getting cleaned. Now, I will say this little disconnect. my wife will go in there pick up the clothes put him in the clean and fold them up put it back

this is why we get along so much my wife if my son doesn't bring a lunch to school j um little jay doesn't have lunch at school i'm like can he learn today he's not he's not going to die i promise you he's not going to start to death my wife would be uh scolding my son about not cleaning the dishes while she's literally cleaning the dishes while she's literally cleaning the dishes that he didn't clean. And I'd say, darling, it's funny. My wife would go on a trip. My wife, you know, she cooking dinner, making lunches, cleaning, everything, just awesome.

When she goes away, I didn't do any of that stuff. Kids did, the kids will do everything. Like, they'll make the dinner, clean the dinner, clean that they do everything. The laundry, sweep, clean, everything's like that. But you just have to, like, give them that void where they can make that stuff happen. So yeah, I would say parenting, it's like, you know, look, if your kids are, the room is unsanitary. Yeah, for sure. Or if it's a danger to firefighters that might have to come in there, like that you can brief your kids on.

They can understand why. Hey, I'm not just, it's just not me because I'm a weird OCD, neat freak. No, hey, if firefighters got to come in here and they're tripping over stuff and there's fire, like, that's going to be terrible. You can't have stuff on your floor. Like, you can't have stuff on your floor. Boom, you know, you can kind of explain that. they can understand the why. But if all you do is, you know, impose your standard of the way you want things,

that takes a little bit of, it's not respecting them. It's not allowing them to influence you. And it can disrupt the relationship a little bit if you go too far with it. Yes, for sure. Now, if they go too far with it and now they're not respecting your house and there's ants on the floor and that, then we can have a conversation about it. the sixth rule of the warrior kid the warrior kid keeps things neat and is always prepared and ready for action that's good got to have that neat road that's good this is like from the seal team's like

you keep your gear squared away yes yes you keep your gear squared away for sure that's the way it is and to me that's like oh yeah i i kind of my minimum standard i call it functional cleanliness That's good. Like functional cleanliness. Yes, there you go. If you go to my garage gym right now that I have, there's chalk on the floor. It's not overwhelming.

It doesn't, but it's there. I use that gym this morning and I use chalk and I'm going to use it tomorrow morning and the morning after that. So it's functionally clean. Now if I go in there and like my kids when they're working out and all of a sudden there's crap everywhere, now it's not. Functionally clean. I can't use it.

Yes. So that's kind of where I draw the line with that's really good. Stuff on the floor, I can't walk through your room. That's a problem. Yeah. It's not functional. That's good. So functional cleanliness is my is my minimum standard.

I'm going to take that. Now when you get into like a professional environment like the cave, that is a professional learning environment. And it is an example to everyone that walks in that building. There is only one standard for that. There you go. And that is the standard of excellence. Yes, sir.

If you walked into, you know, a military building that represents, there's something called the quarterdeck of a Navy building. The quarterdeck comes from a ship, but there's one in a building as well. And it's where you enter the ship. Well, it's where you enter the building as well. When you go into a Navy quarterdeck, like the quarter deck of SEAL Team 1, that thing better be spotless. It better be outstanding because that's representing the team. So there's the only standard is excellence. Absolutely.

That's why when you're having guests to your house, it's like the standard is raised. So when we're having, you know, when when my mother-in-law is coming over from England, now the standard, I tell my kids, hey, your grandma's coming. This, look, you know, you can't have dish by the bed. If it's just me, dish by the bed for one day, no big deal. Slack. Grandma's common. No slack. Clean it up.

So technically your functional cleanliness is because technically even if you're going business environment, the cave and you want sheer excellence, technically that is functional cleanliness. Yes, you're right. And you really want to go big picture. Let's say Jason Wilson more squared away, a lot more clean,

we'll say, then let's say the average person. If you're trying to maintain a culture of a certain level of cleanliness, that's functional. Yes. Just because, I mean, the standard can slide, but it's still functional. It's very good. Yeah. Even, now that you bring that up, Jack, I'm with my son.

He has his desk in his room where he does his homework. And I let some things slide. I've learned a lot, you know, since raising my daughter. Like the hoodies and be on his chair, I'm like, my man, that's supposed to be on the hanger in the closet. And I let it go, you know. And, but when it's chore day. Friday, Fridays, you know, like, hey, let's lock in, you know, but that's, yeah, I'm going to use

that functional cleaning this, yeah. And in the cave, you know, we take, we have the parents take pictures of their bedrooms, and they send them to us, and we have fun. It's fun in the cave. We'll show the kids' rooms, like, look at this room, and they're like, oh, why is that out? And the point is, like, can we do better? And so now it becomes a fun game for them.

Well, my next picture, my room's going to be tighter. And then those that do, they get these awards, excuse me, they get. get these awards for that. And it changes the culture of the kids. And the parents say, wow, like now that this is an order, I see it now in this homework. It changes because clutter does a lot to your mind as well. See, that becomes something a little bit different. That becomes a corrective measure for life, right?

Which I can't support that anymore. If you have somebody that they're living like a slob, they're not doing their standard protocols on a daily basis and you can then imprint upon them, hey, you got to start your day off right. You got to make it. Like for me when I was in the SEAL teams, when I would leave my, I would never leave my desk at the end of the day, I'd put every, I'd square my desk away. I wouldn't get out a pledge, spray it and wipe it down. I wouldn't do that. But there would be no junk sitting on it. There would be no stack of papers. It would be squared away. If someone walked in there they'd go oh this is a squared away desk same thing at my house like it's like oh

a couple days can go by and my desk can get some you know like working on a book over here and i got some stuff and some mail came in but after a while it's like oh no this is not okay so you got to square that away but if you have someone that's whole life has been wild and we want to teach them how to control their life control their emotions control their behavior well we can teach them by teaching them to control their room. Teaching them to control their bed when they wake up in the morning. Those are things that you can do. That's what they do in the military.

Look what they do in the military. They drop a quarter on your bed to see if the thing bounces, to see if you've got it tight enough. They're teaching you, here are the protocols to be disciplined with your room. Then it's going to go to the behavior. Then it's going to go to how you do your job. Then it becomes your emotions. Then it becomes how you function.

So that's great stuff My friend Gabriel again was the Marine He said the same thing He never understood The cleaning this aspect of being a Marine What does this have to do with battle? He says you'll know when we get out there Everything has to be in order

Yeah but I'm like Even when my son is like Now I'm thinking about it It is Like he'll make his bed It looks good on the top So I left up this Spread

The sheets everything is out of order. He just wanted to get by dad. I said, this is a problem. You're creating a bad habit. And he says, how, dad? I said, well, it's not done in excellence. So you have a book report due or something's due

and you can just do the bare minimum. You're going to do that because you programmed yourself to live that way. I said, but I'm coming behind you. This is my opportunity. This is a perfect training ground for you, son, because you're still here. So now, not only do you have to remake the bed, you're going to wash all of the

Lennon because you haven't watched this and why I see the slop stains on the pillowcases because I don't have time to check behind him like that. I'm not that type of dad. And he appreciates it. It's like, man, I love you. This is love. Like, I wish my dad did this with me. Don't yell at me demonstrably and give me no reason for, you know, your action.

Tell me why and how this will hurt me long term. Son, do everything to your best ability. In building, if your sheets were the foundation and the cover was just the bricks, your house will fall because you didn't lay it solid. That's what I love about ceramic towel. You get a stress crack in the tile. You don't have to tell me too much.

I know the foundation wasn't laid correctly. So we were all muts at our tile. We couldn't use cement board. So we would do it the old Italian way. We would pack our cement and screed it off and the floor would be level in all four directions and have the metal lab underneath, I knew my floors, none of them cracked. Whenever I saw a stress crack in a towel, bad foundation.

Someone didn't put in the work where it mattered the most, thought it could be hidden, get your money, and leave. And so little Jay, you learn that, and it's like, I agree, Jock, you can't let certain things slide. You don't want to be overbearing and, you know, major and the minors, you know, if functional cleaning this is the best. but even with that bed being made that way, I don't ever want to see it that way because now I'm allowing a spirit of laziness to set in because the only reason you didn't do it, either you didn't get up on time because the alarm,

I heard you hit snooves five times. Okay, not already going to create more anxiety than you need in the morning, but also let's stay to the principles. Is this how it's supposed to be done? It's not about being overbearing. Is this correct? If not, they're going to go in life and you wonder why the police giving you a call.

He thought he could get away with it. She thought she could do this. No, here are the principles. They apply all throughout life. And I agree with you. It was like, give them room to make the mistake, but then correct it. And give them the right advice on how to move forward. And again, they don't come with manuals.

See, what bothers me about that story is the fact that he tried to get one over a year. You see what I'm saying? He's good, man. Because that's, you know, for me, like, there's, like, lying in the sand. Like, if you lie to me. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We got a problem.

Yes, major. Yeah. We got a... You got a problem. You got a problem. Because I'm very understanding. And if you straight outside the bounds and you made a mistake and, you know, I ask you about it and you tell me what happened. You know, here's...

Most people are surprised. about this but like my kids like I didn't have curfews for my kids you come home you know go to a party you know you're in 10th grade going to a party cool you don't have a good time what time they need home just you know don't do anything stupid they come home at midnight they come home at 10 they come home at one like okay now if they because I trusted them because I trusted that they were going to go out and they had good values to make good decisions and and did that were they perfect kids nope no you know there were there was times right to be like oh that's that's not that's not okay but when they told me the truth it was like

I'll work with it um but I wanted them to have enough freedom that they knew that I trusted them they knew that I respected what they were doing and and then put trust in them which means they could trust me. And you know what that meant was they could talk to me. You know, my kids would tell me, oh, you know, this happened at school or this kid's doing this something. So I felt like it worked out pretty good, like, you know, with the kids.

But it's such a, it's a balance, right? It's a balance. But then a couple red lines, you know, that you can't cross. Lying is one of them. Me too. That's major. There was a saying when I grew up, if you lie, you are still.

and it seemed to be always true with a lot of my friends who a lot of their parents. And I would tell Jay, you know, you don't ever want to lose my trust. Because I give my life for you, that goes without saying. But anything my son needs, I make it happen. If I can make it happen, I'm going to get it for you. If you're doing what you're supposed to do. And so those random checks, you know, for functional cleanliness is always good. Even going underneath the bed, like, my man.

What is this? No one that we missed this. We used to wear the same like Nike socks. I stopped. I just bought me some straight black ones because I got tired of not having enough. Mommy, I brought gray ones. I brought gray ones because my son's same ring. Once he was my size, everything was disappearing.

Yeah, yeah. I was like, no, my man. And so just like, is this supposed to be there? And I know, and it's no argument. That's what I love. It's like, you got me, dad. That's all I can say like, okay, Google, let's do better. Let's not let this keep happening like laundry when he's folding the clothes like, my man, it don't take three hours.

I said, I know what it is. It's your phone. I said, watch, I'm going to take this phone away. Let's see how fast you get done. Boy, that phone is like a corrective measure you can use on kids now. Like you just said, take you three hours to fold the clothes with your phone. If I take your fold, you're turning into a freaking master Chinese laundrette. You know,

blah, blah, blah, pop, stop just getting told them. Our son told me and my wife,

Nicole, we were bragging to another couple like, yeah, when we took J. phone, he's so much nicer and kind.

We really think it's the social media pulling him away. He was like, nah, I just wanted my phone back. And I'm like, man,

I'm thinking, you know, it was some science behind what we were doing. He was like, nah, how's just being nice? I'm playing the game.

We'll take it. We'll take it. Yeah, exactly. We'll take it. Exactly. Next section here, the friend. The friend loves at all times and is steadfast in the face of adversity,

willing to lay down his life for his companions. It seems so obvious, right? Seems so obvious. But boy, isn't it important to lay down a good foundation? Absolutely. So that people understand. You know, I had a friend call me up and you need something. And, you know, it was a little bit of a big.

ask he called me up he said hey I need it's like here's the situation I'm in I need this and I was like all right friendship dues are up I guess I'm in you know what I mean that's what we're doing yeah I don't just talk this game like you need something he called me called me on it okay we're doing this then but so important to for people to understand what that what that actually means absolutely like you know a friend is someone you can call and they're going to answer the call and they're going to step in and we're going to get stuff done. Absolutely.

I told little Jay, he was disappointed by some kids at school when he was younger. And he said, they weren't a good friend. I said, well, really, son, there's no such thing as a good or bad friend. They either a friend or they're not. I say, so when you remove that,

you understand what a friend is now. And so that helped him a lot like, hmm, okay, they either a friend or not. This is not my friend. And so, yeah, you don't need an adjective before the word friend. strong enough to stand on its own. Check.

Part three, the devotion characteristics. First one, out of the gate, the husband. The husband emulates Christ's love by sacrificial giving of himself for his wife's well-being, treating her as you would like to be honored.

That's a big one. Yeah, this is the one that you couldn't think of earlier for these little sayings. Happy wife, happy life. Yes. It's like, okay, we understand what that means, but there better be a little something more behind that.

Yeah, and it never was a term of endearment. You know, as men, we were taught to give that life to our wives so that we have some peace and they'd be quiet. That's what that came from. And so women are starting, they're getting up on game. Like, wait a minute, if you're not happy, I'm not happy either, you know. And COVID exposed a lot of it with the divorce rates. They thought everything was good.

because they got pretty much what they wanted, but their husbands never really dealt with the tough conversations because they weren't good verbal processes. Would you say verbal processors? What do you mean by that? Meaning someone that can articulate with their feelings with composure, not having to, for me, my thing was hitting the table. I'm sick of always, boom, and I would do that.

Instead of saying, well, no, Nicole, every time you question my leadership with finances, it actually hurts me, and it actually reminds me of a time when my father wouldn't trust me with such and such. And I would like for you to please trust me moving forward. And more so, what have I done to blow your trust? Instead of saying, why don't you submit to my leadership?

Babe, why don't you trust me? Because that's the heart. That's where I'm speaking from. That's hurt because it hurts me that you don't trust my leadership. What did I do? How can I improve? And when I communicate that way, my wife drops her guard because she's hearing my heart

and now she meets the moment and come right there with me and so when you're a verbal processor you can speak the true emotions behind what you feel or your thoughts without actually losing control in the moment. A lot of times

Nicole, she joked about like she could be wrong and because I lack composure now I have to apologize to her for the way I talk to when she was initially wrong. So now when I have to call her on something and she does it too i can see it i'm like i'm not losing this like no no i'm

we're gonna stay here i'm gonna stay at this level here we're communicate like no you were wrong why did you say that no because that wasn't right why no let's stay here no no no let's stay in no no no why did you do that and keep it right there and eye-to-eye contact and communicate the heart of the matter now i'm not yelling or anything and we're going to hold each other responsible for the way we're treating each other and there is no outs we're going to labor with each other and work with each other and communicate tell men stop holding it in learn how to verbalize it because holding it in it's like a champagne bottle life is going to shake you eventually it's going to pop and you wonder why you lost control with the simplest offense like man that thing her saying that did not warrant that

reaction it's because you held it in learn how to communicate in way where she can hear your heart and not be on defensive, you know. A lot of times we're yelling our body language, a woman who's small in stature, she's going to back up. She's going to try to protect herself, guard herself. But when you communicate, just like you do a lot of times, I hear you, and I'm locked in. But if you yelled at every time you talked, you wouldn't have no one, no one would come. And so that's what a verbal processor is. He's verbalizing what he's processed. And a lot of times it's men we can't process because we suppress or repress what we feel in. And that's been a game changer for me and my wife is not sweeping things under the rug for the sake of peace,

but truly having peace by bringing these issues to the forefront. You know, we have a saying, peace is not the absence of chaos, adversity, and trials. It's being in the midst of those things and still remaining calm at heart. And that's how I view it at home. if there's an issue, I'm not going to sweep it under the rug. It's going to be tough. Let's talk about this. But this conversation doesn't need to turn into an argument.

And I'm not going to let it turn into that. Voices start raising like, hey, well, let's table this, but we still need to continue this conversation. And as men, we have a right to say, hey, Nabe, they're so used to us coming to the bedroom because they can give us some. Like, no, that's not I'm sorry. I need to hear you say, I'm sorry, uh, Jock, for hurting you. You know, my words weren't right and I shouldn't have said that to you. Then after that, we can have sex, man. But I want to make sure, you know, again, I've seen so many couples, you know, marriages fold because they don't face it head on, you know.

And when you're successful, you have money and resources, you can hide a lot, you know. and Nicole and I have chosen to go to hard path and really work through this, the issues that happened before we met and then those issues that created the issues when we met. Like, we're still working, even today. Everything's fine, but we're still working like, hmm, you responded that way. Where did that come from? And just sit with that for a moment. Well, Jason and I fear losing control because when I was eight, that's how my home feels. felt for a moment. And so I actually keep a picture of her in my phone during that time of her life. So if we're ever at a place in a day where we're not getting along, I look at that picture to

keep my heart tender towards her because typically who you're arguing with isn't the grown woman in front of you. It's the child. Same thing with the husband. It's not the 40 or 50 year old man. It's the 15 year old boy who never was healed. That's why he's so reactionary. Like how do we learn how to communicate that without feeling that our wives would use it against us and vice versa. Yeah. I always want to let people know that when we talk about communication, when I talk about communication and I'm talking about good communication, I'm actually talking about listening. and you know me you know there's a joke we're at echelon front where I work I do this I sit there

and listen to someone and I put my hand like this like kind of like the thinking man what's that statue the thinking man yeah but you know people notice that I do it and I'm like yeah that's a way of letting you know letting me know that I need to keep my mouth shut and listen to what this other person's saying and going a little bit further my goal is when you and I are having a discussion is I want to try and figure out how you're right and I'm wrong. That's my actual goal. I'm like, okay, Jason and I were going into some business deal and he wants to do it this way and I want to do it that way.

I sit down and cover up my mouth. I listen to what you have to say. And my goal is to figure out how you're right and I'm wrong. That's my goal. Wow. And it's very helpful tool for opening up my mind, you know, because otherwise it's like, you know, when I'm like, you know, Jason thinks he's got a good idea, but I know my idea is better. So okay, how do you want to do it, Jason?

And I'm just look like, you said something on the last podcast. Am I just listening to respond? Which is a totally different thing than listening to hear and listening to understand. So I know, I know that the de-escalation, you know, the de-escalation fact, like I don't yell at my wife and my wife and I haven't yelled at each other. Maybe ever. She got a little hostile with me over Christmas. We were doing ice bath. Sure.

And so my whole family, this was last two Christmases ago, I think. So my whole family, it's in Montana, and it's like, it's in the snow and there's ice. And we have to chop the ice thing. So my whole family were out there, we're having fun. And my son had heard Andrew Huberman talking about brown fat and how the ice bath will improve your brown fat, which brown fat is good for you. And the brown fat is located around the. clavicles and the upper back. So my wife is, so we're all taking rotations in the ice bath.

And we're outside. We're in the jacuzzi, but we got the ice bath out there. So whoever's not in the ice bath, we're all sitting in the jacuzzi. So my wife is in, so my wife gets into the ice bath. And my son this whole time has been yelling at everyone. Get your brown fat in there. Come on. You got to get down to your neck.

Yes, absolutely. So my wife is in there. and I'm like, come on, darling, get your brown fat out of there. Hostilities were received. She said, don't you tell me about that's like that. I was like, okay, darling. Nicole will never cold plunge. And we had one at the cave facility.

She would not do it. We had that boy at 38 degrees. And the record is 22 minutes in that. Yeah. And we were taught, actually, Andy Ficella taught me to go to the earloes. Yeah, that's to get the brown fat enough. You're talking about refocusing. Yeah, yeah.

Nicole would never cold plunge. We have a sauna. She's cool with that. But yeah, she would yell at me if I ever made a cold. And dare I hold her shoulders down in the water? Like you can't get that. You can't get out. You got at least do 20 seconds.

That happened, but the whole family's like, oh, you know. So you guys did it outside. Yeah, yeah. But my point in saying that was like, you know, other than that outburst. We'll call that winter of 2023 You know like I really like listen to what my wife has say and I try and figure out how she's right and I'm wrong It's usually not that hard But so you know again when we thought when we talk about my point in saying this is most people when they think of communicating

They think of me I'm gonna talk I had I was working with a client at Eslam front and he was having an issue with one of his employees and he was gonna give him a call And so I'm like okay, yep, sounds good. So he gives him a call, talks to him, calls me back, he says, oh, I just had a great conversation with so-and-so. I said, oh, that's awesome. I said, what percentage of time did you talk and what percentage of time did he talk? And he was just quiet because he knew. He knew he had gone on the thing and said, you know, Jason,

I was thinking about what you, you know, the last project that you work on, you showed up a little bit late. And he went on and talked and it was a great conversation for him. But what's Jason thinking on the other end? Jason's like, oh, here it is. Big boss man laying into me again. I can't get two words in edgewise. And so just think, just keep that in mind.

You know, when communication, the best communication is when you listen. When you listen to what the other person has to say. And that allows you time to think how you can really articulate and verbally process correctly. what you want to say. That's good. Because otherwise, man, if you're just listening, that was a great listening to respond,

what you said earlier. So, so, so smart. Don't do that. That's good. That's good. You got another section in here staying in shape. Just gonna throw it out there.

We're working out, man. We're working out. You got to stay in shape. Yeah. You got to stay in shape. You know, that's one thing I noticed my wife would tell me, I train jiu-jitsu a lot.

And if I don't train, she'll you know for a couple days she'll like you need to go train you know because my attitude is just like starts becoming a little bit maybe not you know it's a little bit more unhappy because jih Tzu makes me very happy. Jiu Jiu Jitsu makes me very happy you know what I agree man I even think it's we should never allow the warrior to die in us you know as you get older I've been convicted of that a lot lately leaves to get back and train, get some guys maybe my age, you know. The time for me to go into jihitsu gyms is so hard because of my job and porn.

Like, because either it's real early or it's an afternoon when I'm teaching. And I miss it, you know, and when that warrior dies, a part of you go. And I think every man, no matter our age, if you can't go as hard, do something. You know, don't let the warrior die. And you get so busy that you neglect that side. And then you wonder why he comes out at times that he shouldn't. That's probably what your wife would see. You know, and it's like, I remember my blood pressure was the lowest when I was getting thrown the most.

My anxiety was, I could deal with anything. Man, the way I was getting, whew, whipping, and you had to stay calm and you couldn't really plan your heart fall or your breakfall. I was in life, I was like, there's nothing, nothing. This is nothing out here. But when I stopped, I noticed like, well, this is anxiety. I don't do this anymore. You know, after taking care of my mom with dementia, you know, like, you can't control nothing. And you learn to accept more than to try to control anything.

And when I stopped training a lot because of the injuries, I'm like, I see it immediately. You can see something is missing. And I believe we should never let that warrior die in us. I don't care if you can just if you got to do Tai Chi do something do something I'm looking forward to my Tai Chi days

Yeah You're gonna ask some Jiu-Git-Suh You're gonna call it Tai Jitsu It's probably something now Is there something Tai Jitsu? There probably is That sounds kind of fun of it Yeah

I always say do what you can Yeah I agree Yeah I totally agree Yeah next section The Father Clearly this is one way We've been talking about the father desires his children's trust and provides a safe space for them to receive love, learn from their mistakes, and conquer their fears. Desires for his children's trust.

That's a very important way of wording that. It doesn't say demand children's trust. You got to earn that. You got to earn that. And how do you earn it? You got to give them some. And there's a little bit, there's not like, there's risk. Kids are always going to do what you want them to do.

Kids are going to make mistakes. Kids are going to do dumb things. And if you just if you just snatch all their trust away from them, look, sometimes they deserve that. Sometimes they're going to get, you know, grounded. Yes, sir. You know, they're going to lose privileges.

Echo and I talk a lot about children and privileges. Because when you start breaking down the privileges that your kids have. Yes. Yes. House, roof, food, phone, power, bedspread, pillow, clothing. Like, it's a wrong list. So when we start revoking some of those privileges, can tighten things up real quick.

Yes, yes. And it's needed. Good reminder. No, but this is just a great chapter. And obviously, the details that you put in here represent a lot of the stuff that we've been talking about today. And...

The sun is the last one. The sun is the last one. I made that. It's the shortest, but the most important. Because, again, that took me into a, battlefield where I couldn't just be masculine. I had to be nurturing, long suffering, patience, more tenderhearted, and that was caring for my mother. And that was really the most important characteristic that God used to shape me into a comprehensive man. She didn't need a provider per se. She

still needed some help with assistance. She had social security and some pension. Protecting, I would say maybe when bill collectors would call and she just, just, you know, couldn't afford it anymore or doctors. I remember sitting in one appointment. He literally was just pushing psych meds on her, sight meds on her. And I was like, do you know her backstory? He was like, no. Why do I need to know the backstory?

I said, so you know exactly what to prescribe or if she needs prescription medication. My mother, what she went through, he didn't know any of that. And that's when we wanted to get a psych evaluation. So that was the protector. But what my mother really needed during that time was the nurturer. Because the nurturer, to some extent, is the protector as well. He's caring. He's combing her hair.

Things I would never have done, fouling her fingernails, painting her fingernails, washing her up when the caregiver Kathy could. That's why I said we have to be more than masculine. Don't get rid of your masculinity, your attributes. Again, now you've got another deficit. We've mastered that. let's stretch a little further and grow a little further to become comprehensive as men. Then the world I know will be better because now we're not just limited.

We're multifaceted instead of monofaceted, I guess, you know. And so that's why I close with that chapter because, you know, no one wants to see their parents go through an illness like Alzheimer's or dementia or cancer and then to be present and stay there. no matter how hard it is, no matter how late it is. How many times she forgets the answer you gave when you say it 20 more times without an attitude. That does something to a man.

Yeah, it just, and it shaped me into who I am today. And what's interesting is that that video went viral, I think three months after she passed. God knew what he was doing. It was like he was training me for what was coming. me. He says, if I don't help you get your emotions and check, if I don't teach you how to be comprehensive, if I don't show you really what sacrifice is. Sacrifice isn't doing what needs to be done. It's doing what needs to be done that you don't want to do. And that's when I learned like,

I got it now. And when she passed, a friend of mine, like a spiritual sister, she said, you thought you were releasing her, but she was releasing you. And that hit like a ton of bricks. but she was like a sense and my mother that whole six, seven year journey the phone calls two in the morning mom is an actor

she's very combative and need you to come by and I got to be at work in five hours and I would leave angry at God like why is this happening and he says really think back to when you were young and you would come home at three in the morning and mom would stay up all night

and she didn't know if you made it and she lost the son already and I say, you are just and I would just go and take my medicine. And when I got the lesson, he freed mom and then mom freed me, you know, to be the man this moment demands and just walk in my calling unashamedly and to give me in a message that I didn't create. It came from God. And it's how he created us to be.

One of the greatest wars in the Bible is David. and he cried and prayed the majority of the Psalms, but he still was the king and the warrior. And that's all is, man, we desire to be human. And so. Well, like you said, you close out the book with that chapter. I want to close out the book for this episode here. You say this.

This is actually, I'm closing out with something from the beginning. You say, take action. Throughout this book, I will encourage you not only to read, but also to take action. The only way you can change the man you are is to free yourself from pre-existing paradigms. So at each step of the journey together, choose to act on what you learn.

Start now. So it's, you know, something that I didn't really mention about the book is, you have like, like things throughout the book that are procedures, you know? Like you said, it's an instruction thing. So you have some procedures, actions to follow in each of the chapters. Like here's the topic and here's some actions you can take, whether it's cold plunging,

whether it's making a budget, right, like sit down and make a budget, whether it's managing boundaries, setting up boundaries, whether it's taking your family out to dine in a public place that's a little bit above the standard of the normal place that you go to. whether it's sitting down and doing drills for silent communication, communicating with your spouse without having to talk. So you got and you explain how to do them. And then finally there's a part of it that's throughout the book. And that is the affirmations.

It's like it's, you call it a mirror drill. Did you make that up? Well, I don't know if I made it up. It's all with science behind talking to yourself in the mirror. But for me and what I notice is that we have a hard time looking at ourselves. without trying to shave or make ourselves look better, but just intently look into your own eyes and see something good.

A lot of men's retreats I go on and the things that I would hear, the self-condeming words, like, look at you loser and like, man, this is your normal talk to yourself. And so I wanted to put the mirror drill in there for you to not only look at yourself in an intimate way, like, I'm not this bad guy.

I may be wounded, but I'm not this bad guy and I can improve, but also to say the things that you won't do anymore. Like one line in there is that I'm not an alpha male. I'm a human being. I'm bigger than that. Like, I would not be limited by just that one definition. You know, respecting women, the gentleman chapter. You know, I will respect my elders and those that are in need.

looking into your own eyes telling that man in the mirror who you will become is a very powerful exercise and that's why I put that at the end of each chapter yeah each chapter has one and then has affirmations as well thoughts to go through so really good it's like it's not just a book that you can read it's got action steps that you can take to progress towards being

or becoming the man that the moment demands. That's where we're at. What are you working on now? What do you got in the hopper? That's what I want to work on if I can. Yeah, I would have to take a moment just to rest for a month. But as I'm saying that, it's like a pastor that told me sometimes like airplanes,

warplanes, they have to refuel in the air. All right. And so that's just where I am right now. I would have to refuel in the air. My assistant has to take a break for a moment from the cave. I don't know if indefinite is the answer, but I have to give. Chris? Yes.

Okay. Yeah. He has a big, beautiful family and has to do some things. And so I may have to gear up. And well, I will have to gear up and finish this group. And so I'm like that war plane. I'm going to have to refuel in the air. But when it's time for me to land, I'm going to take full advantage of it.

So that's my focus is. The group that we have right now, 47 boys, make sure they finish the right of passage strong. Is the right of passage for those 47 boys? So the boys are in the program for four years? No, no. We've narrowed it down to 18 months and 10th training. And then after that, they go into the other core curriculum as far as the dining etiquette training, grooming etiquette, financial literacy, speaking and communication as well as community service and construction skills.

That's awesome. Yeah, thanks. So these guys got 18 months. How far are they? Well, they're finishing, wow, October. Okay. And then what's that, what's like the final? That's good.

I'm glad you asked that. They go off a retreat, a weekend retreat, no technology, and they're on the cabin with counselors and psychotherapists. And so it's faith centered, of course, but imagine the child, he gets to undo his trauma as a child. So for three days, they're in isolation, and for at least eight hours a day, they're doing introspective work on where they are right now. I mean, it's powerful.

We have one moment where the fathers come, and they have to communicate how much they love their sons and how proud they are without saying a word only with the eyes. When I say everyone is crying in a matter of like two minutes, it's powerful. because majority of times our words can't really articulate what our hearts really want to convey but the eyes can when you just sit and stare you know and it's powerful so that's the last day and the camaraderie the way they join together and the issues they came with they burn them and it's really powerful we get through some psychodrama where they can go back and then we are praying what was really said, why wasn't that said?

Just powerful. So imagine now you're undoing the trauma. You're helping them release it as middle schoolers. Now there are men with healed boys inside. Is there a physical component so, you know, we get baptized? Yeah. What's the physical component where we now say you are a graduate? Yeah, that's at the end.

We have a ceremony as well. It's actually during the weekend after they finish all of the training, they go through a ceremony. We give them, actually, it's a sling in the stone of David. There you go. Yeah, it's really good. It's really powerful. And then they slay the giants they meant to slay that weekend. It's really good.

And how's the trajectory of the boys that have graduated in the past? They're all performing. Great. You have, you know, the stragglers, some that you have to watch a little more. mom say he's not doing this can you give him a call but the majority are stellar you know again it it stem not from their inability to perform academically it was the inability to express what was really going on inside and once you give them that freedom to do that it's amazing what happens to these boys you know it's um it's it's it's it's a it's one of the greatest it is the greatest work that i could do

I won't say it's my life's work yet because I'm nowhere near gone, but it's definitely to see boys' lives transformed and in their parents. I see why I stay under spiritual attack a lot because you're literally changing the trajectory of some kids' future. Yeah. And so you've got forces of darkness that don't want that to happen, and that comes with being a soldier for God, you know. It just, I don't, I'm not aiming to.

please anyone here, but the reason, him who sent me to complete the task that he sent me to do. Do any of the boys or have any of the boys come back to become instructors? Yeah, we have six peer instructors right now. Those are the ones you gave the rash cards to. Got it. Yeah, and they would love to see you. Yeah, they're phenomenal young men and some still, you know, they do sports and still come back, but we have a good core of five or six that's faithful in there. you know in martial arts look how many black belts are created and how many are teachers you know like you know where are all your teachers like friends of mine who run jihitsu gyms is like man

I can't get someone in here to sacrifice their time to do what I did in them you know you have maybe three or four faithfuls as many students that come through these doors you should have to tell teachers hey I got too many teachers right now and so it's always going to be a sure You know, the harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. And so I just pray to the Lord of Harvest to send me laborers. And he sends the few who are faithful. And I think it's going to, if it was like that in his time, I think we're pretty much set with what it's going to be like.

It's going to be the few. And I'm just thankful for those few. I mean, they're testing right now. This is the first time I couldn't be at their fortitude test. Oh, sorry. And no, it's not sorry. It's a blessing because they're growing. You know, I hear the praise report from yesterday.

They did well. They pushed through. What's the fortitude test? Fortitude is the ground. You have to fight, you know, so it's building fortitude. That's what we teach the jiu-jitsu. So do they have to go against a certain number of people, do certain skill sets? Yeah, the drills, then you have to roll live and then full contact, punching with boxing gloves while you're on the ground, hip escape from under the standing attack, everything.

And then you got to spear. component as well where you have to recite all of the answers to the questions that we taught you about fortitude you know one of them is that when christ said that he that endures to the end shall be saved so enduring to the end do you have what it takes to endure without complaining and so that's what the fortitude module is about and to see the students grow in that and i remember several of my teachers and coaches when they couldn't make it they purposely stayed away so that their black belts could have that experience because you got to give them a shot if you're always there how will they grow you got to let them grow and so it was man

god is like i need you to be in this space you know transition and move forward and uh so yeah this was a blessing this is how he got me away and i always wanted to have a sit down conversation with you man yeah yeah you and me both uh all right second us up to speak Yes, oh good. So people that are looking for you. I think we went through this before. Mr. Jason Wilson.com. And then you're on Twitter,

Instagram at Mr. Jason O. Wilson. And then you're also on YouTube at Mr. Jason O. Wilson and Facebook, Jason Wilson. And for the nonprofit, for the charity, for the cave, it's the union spelled the, yunion.org or it could be a little easier savingboys.com okay so we got a new one savingboys dot com yes all right savingboys.com and then on twitter youtube instagram it's at cave 313 and then

facebook is cave of a doleum transformational academy you know why you were talking we were talking about scaling a lot this episode that's why i called it cave 311 because hopefully it will be another area called. Cave 619. That's how we did. Cave 858. Yes. 808.

Yes. 808. Yeah, right that. Awesome stuff. Let me come out there. Let me be the, let me start that one up out in Hawaii. Yeah. Echo Charles, you got any questions?

Yeah, I got a question. So I need your opinion on this one. Sure. So in the spirit of what was it called, the wearing the right uniform for the right battle yes or the right armor for the right battle right yes let's say hypothetically as a jiu-jitsu person I've let's say I've let's say I've a black belt that I've had since the day I got my black belt let's say I've had that black belt for I don't know 25 years or so all right we'll say so it's real old and

yeah and then in the future I get a brand new black belt that's like super like made really well really good looking black belt you know made by honorable people the whole deal but it's brand new right is it a violation or is it directly in line with the right uniform for the right battle if i save that new black belt just for media appearances and i keep my old one for the action is that is that right or is that wrong man this this is crazy uh one of my friends tyrone gooden he's a machado black belt Jiu-Jitsu, when we were working on just marketing his gym, I was like, man, I appreciate, trust, my belt is raggedy, I get it. I said, but for this picture, let's do a new one.

For these holding all of these awards you got, let's do the new one. So you're right on point, yeah, definitely. Yeah. So that might mean I guess. So what? You setting me up for something. No, I was just wondering in your opinion. Jacko, what you think.

There are various opinions on the matter is what I'm saying. So I have a black belt. I didn't get it 25 years ago. But I did get it, oh, geez. 20 years ago, 2005. Wow. Okay, yeah, yeah. And I've had the same black belt for 20 years.

And it's old, and it's weathered, and it looks pretty cool. Yeah. But it is definitely. But so Origin USA, which is a company that makes Jiu-Jitugi's all in America, 100% American product made from American material. We don't have any slave labor. We're not paying communists. We employ people and they earn a living and they learn a skill and it's awesome.

And we started making jiu-jitsu belts. And so the boys sent me a beautiful origin USA black belt. And we were just deciding, you know, we're kind of discussing what to do with it. What? Debating. We were debating. Was that a debate? Well, I don't know.

If I remember correctly, you chose. I haven't chosen anything yet Okay, it felt like you were really unhappy with my opinion on the matter I agree with Jason Wilson Yeah, yeah, media black belt It's like it still gets the glory You see I'm saying

But it like the newness and the you know And the pizzazz gets I did a ad for Tyrone Where I had him Hold his black belt coiled And it was weathered and torn And it said over 20 years As a black belt

And that's a powerful imagery Right there So it did depends, you know, that was the right armor for that fight. But for media, um, for the novice, you know,

when you see, when you see a media, when you see someone that's wearing an old black belt though, do you think a little bit of respect? Oh, for sure. Absolutely. But you think that's more respect is more warranted on the mats. I would say the respect would be the wrong word.

I would say, um, like I said, there are varying opinions on this matter. And I respect both of them, to be honest with you. But I think, in the spirit of right uniform for the right battle if there's going to be two different belts

of just such polarizing appearances you know and one is going to be chose for one and one's going to be chose for other boom that's the way i see it currently like it for pictures and then you know you're trying to get recruit more students and parents they don't know what that weather belt represents like man they must be poor here you know yeah yeah take pride in your appearance if we're really want to go deep on this yes we do if i'm wearing my black I could wear my old belt because it's like contrasting and if we're in a white ghee and I wear my that crispy black yeah yeah I see you I see yeah so that's maybe that's the protocol maybe that's the working protocol now what kind of

protocol is it that I want my ego to be gratified by people seeing my black belch just in general in general yeah maybe I need to be more humble yeah so and this is a whole other issue but I'm glad you brought it up so you know how like because there's two kind of philosophies and sometimes there's some overlap. You know how some people say, hey, it doesn't matter the belt. It's like it's just a matter of you learning and gaining skills and like all this stuff. And the belt is just almost like an ego thing. And actually could be dragged into the realm of it's kind of like a hierarchy subjugation thing.

Like where the black belts, we stand up here. You guys are the lower belts, lower belts. Like what do you mean? You know, so it could be that too. You see what I'm saying? But I think the real value in the belt is almost like a standard of reminder to tell you like, hey, like you have to maintain a certain, like, level to yourself. That's good.

And it's like a reminding you get to wear it. Just like anything else. You see what I'm saying? Like any kind of, I don't know, I guess any kind of uniform, really, you know? That's good. Like, you know, when you play football or whatever, you have, your number? And a lot of people, they stick with that number, you know? And then if they do really, really well, they retire the number.

It's like a thing, you know? So I don't know. So, I don't know. So, when you talked about those shoulder pads I had on in the last episode, how I missed the catch. Yeah. Because the ball went past my hands and hit those chest and the shoulder pads. I had those on to impress the cheerleaders.

Yeah, because you wanted to look bigger. Yeah. And so there's the ego again. Yeah. I played receiver two, by the way. Yeah. I knew that was going to. You need the shortest shoulder pads.

I had the linebacker shoulder pads from the 80s. Okay. The ones looked like you were a gladiator. Yeah. They're the ones I had on, man. Any other questions? Exactly. One last thing.

I brought it up, well, kind of on break or whatever. So Lawrence Fishburn has a movie, which happens to me in my favorite movie of Lawrence Fishburn. Not as well known as like the Matrix

and stuff, even though I do like the Matrix. Are you not going to talk about Apocalypse now here? No, not Apocalypse now. It's called Always Outnumbered. I never heard of that. Always outnumbered,

always out. Didn't get like the promotion and, you know, all this stuff. But in my opinion, one of his best, in my opinion, it's my favorite movie of him. Wow.

But it's about, basically he just gets out of jail for some heinous charges or whatever and he just gets out of jail he has to rebuild his life in like south central and he's struggling with the old him but he's freaking you know he's bent on really forging the right path but he's struggling hardcore struggling and then um so he's trying to get a job he's trying to hold the job but he's kind of mean a little bit you know so it's like you kind of sympathize with him but you're like you can't be doing that you know you're rubbing people the wrong way kind of a thing and then kind of out of nowhere like this kid comes into his life and now he has to kind of mentor this kid because the kid comes from you know bad background but the kid wants to do the right thing but he's in the wrong path thing so it ends up being um kind of like he's trying to rediscover a new life for himself and this kid or whatever it turns out it's really good really

well done too how old is this movie 1998 if i'm not mistaken i'm gonna write that down yeah there's always outnumbered always outnumbered oh it's both or it could be just the one i always knew as the one there's yeah there's a lot of people like bill cobs in that i think natalie cole's in that Isaiah Washington's in there He was the main actor He's the main guy Socrates Fort Low That was your favorite

Oh I've seen it many many times Yeah It's really good Very much worth the watch Oh yeah 100% Jack Brattle Yeah good to meet you sir You too man

Awesome Jason any closing thoughts Jason any closing thoughts No man Thank you for having me man Long time coming Appreciate you Keep doing what you're doing man

It's affecting a lot of people more than you know. You know a lot, but it's more than you know, man. Appreciate it, man, and back at you. And thanks for joining us today. Thanks for sharing all your experiences and your lessons learned. And, you know, thank you for what you're doing right now

to help so many people, children and adults, to find the path of the most high and move them toward the light. Yes, sir. Thank you, brother. Appreciate it. And with that, Jason Wilson has left the building. leaving us with a lot to think about leaving us with a lot to work on a lot of ways to improve

mentally spiritually physically yes sir to become a comprehensive man the physical part for working out yep we're training jiu jitsu sure boxing moitai wrestling yep yep yep yep and yep lifting of course lifting as you like this say running. Hey, as you're doing all that stuff, you're going to need fuel. We recommend you heard review, impromptu review on the last podcast

from Jason Wilson, real time. Drinking hydrate, he was drinking. Loving it. Check out joccofuel.com. By the way, you can text joccofuel to 24672. I'll send you like some voicemails. Yeah. You can get in the game with that one.

So check it out. Joccofuel.com. We got protein. We got energy. We got malk. We got hydration. We got joint warfare. Super krill oil.

Time. We got all time war. We got everything that you need. Creatine. How's your creatine? Consistent. How much a day? Oh, five to ten grams.

That's not consistent. It is. Consistent would be five grams or ten grams. Oh, no, no. Every day. Well, because I lost my scoop. That's a whole other story. The wish we don't want to hear.

No, you don't want to hear it. But so I use like a, you know, like a plastic spoon. So I just estimate it. But I overestimate rather than I'm going to say, you're probably doing, you're probably doing 14. Maybe. It's 18. It is what it is.

Get on creatine. But every day though. Every day. That's why I say it can say every day. Get on the creatine. Yeah. Also, we have this stuff available at Walmart. We have it available at Wawa.

We have it available at vitamin shop, GNC, military commissaries, A-fees, Hanifer. We're dash stores in Maryland, Wake Fern and ShopRite. H-E-B down in Tejas. Have you seen the displays in Texas at H-B? They're legit. Meyer, so if you're up in the Jason Wilson area, you go to Meyer and get yourself some.

Wegmans out there on the East Coast, Harris-Teter, Publix, we're now in Publix down in Florida, rocking. Lifetime Fitness, Shields, Dix, sporting goods. added to the list. So we're getting out there. If you need it, you can get it. Jocko Fuel. Go and check it out.

Also, origin USA.com because we're training jujitsu. Gee, no ghee. Both. We need to wear a jihitsu uniform. We want to wear one that is American made. That's not made with slavery. That is not made by ruining the environment.

So go to origin, USA.com. We also have jeans. We also have t-shirts. We also have hoodies, which I'm going to be putting on here shortly. We have shorts. We have workout gear. We have hunt gear. We had everything that you need. Boots. Did you get a new pair of boots yet? Not since the last one. Okay. The new boots are awesome. Yeah. So the one you had on the other day when we're making a mock toe. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Very luxurious. Very they're epic. Epic boots. So we got everything that you need made 100% in America. Maine and North Carolina from 100% American materials. OriginUSA.com. Check that out. It's true. Also,

Jocko store called Jocco store. So jocco store. Right. Discipline is where the merch is. What's new at Jocco store? Tell me about it. Before I get to what's new, let me tell you what's existing has been existing.

Discipline equals freedom stuff. Shirts. Hoodies. Some hats on there. Some shorts on there too, by the way, don't forget about those summers coming up. Maybe not soon.

but kind of soon. Just keep that in mind. The shirt locker subscription shirt scenario, new design every month. This month, this one equals freedom instead of drinking. That's essentially my little impromptu working title. Okay. That's interesting. If you click on shirt locker, you can kind of see the sneak peek.

What's the sneak peek? Give us a verbal. Verbal. It's like instead of dosiques, it's like, oh. Ex disbelief. Got it. See, look at you. Hey, man.

It's good. Anyway, yeah, news. That sounded very uncool in your initial description and now real cool after you explained it. Yeah, I think a lot of it is in the execution. For sure, sir. It sounds like you executed properly. My good, my good man. So far, so good.

So anyway, yeah, Solon joccas are what's new? Okay, I've been talking about socks for a long time. We finally got socks. That's new. Also, this, probably within the next, I don't know, four weeks. You're going to have new discipline equals freedoms. Shirts. New design.

Check. Anyway, there's this place on the bottom of the website. You can sign up with your email in there so you can be on the list. So you get informed when these new things kind of pop up or whatever. So you get first crack at them. You know, a lot of times we can't be ordering like millions and millions of these things. So, you know, in the event of them being in limited supply, be sure that you get kind of the head of the line scenario, you know, through email. So yeah, it's all like taco store.com.

It's true. Also check out Coloradoecraftbeef.com and primalbeef.com. Awesome steak from awesome companies, awesome people. Colorado Kraft Beef has beef sticks that are like a Snickers bar for life. They're good for you. They taste good. They give you what you need. That's at Colorado CraftBeef.com.

And then Primal Beef has jerky now. Which is freaking legit. Primalbeef.com. Check out their jerky. Look, get burgers. Get the beef Franks. get the stakes but get some of that jerky too

because it's fire as the young kids say subscribe to the podcast subscribe to Jock Underground subscribe to the YouTube channels psychological warfare you can check that out flipside canvas.com

also books so you heard from Jason Wilson today he's got three books the first ones cry like it a man cry like a man that's the kind of the origin story battle cry his first guide book

and then finally Finally, this most recent book, which we covered today, The Man the Moment Demands. All those are by Jason Wilson. Great books. Please check them out. Give them as gifts. They will help people.

Also, I've written a bunch of books, including a bunch of kids' books, which I obviously do a really bad job of telling people about. So I'm telling you right now. If you know a kid, any kid, between the ages of three and 38, get them the warrior kid books. It will make their lives. better. Also, echelon front, we have a leadership consultancy. You heard me talk some leadership principles over the past couple podcasts. We put those principles to work at Escalonfront, making

companies better through leadership. So go to Eschalonfront.com for that. We also have a bunch of events that you can come and attend, everything from the muster, which is a leadership conference, to the FTX to Council to Battlefield. Got a bunch of awesome events. So check those out at eschatonfront.com. We also have online training. The online training can be found at extreme ownership.com. And this is training for leadership skills. And you might think, well, I'm not a general in the army or an admiral in the Navy or the chief operating officer of some big company.

I don't need leadership skills. Actually, you do. You heard us talking about them today. And the last podcast with Jason Wilson. You interact with other people, including your wife, including your husband, including your kids, including your coworkers, including your friends and your peers, the people you train with. If you interact with those people, which you do, you're in a leadership position. So we want to teach you the skills of leadership.

So go to extreme ownership.com to check those out. And if you want to help out service members, active and retired, you want to help out their families, Gold Star families, check out Mark Lee's mom, mom, alie. She's got an incredible charity organization. and if you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to America's mighty warriors.org. Also check out Heroes and Horses.org. This is Micah Fink's organization.

I want to go there and visit with him. It's up in Montana. Takes our veterans up into the woods where they go through a cleansing of the soul. That's Heroes and Horses.org. Jimmy May. has an organization beyond the brotherhood.org. And also you've got theunion.org.

This is Jason Wilson's organization, the why union.org. Also savingboys.com. Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, at Cave 313. Also, if you want to connect with Jason Wilson on the interwebs, Mr. Jason Wilson.com. And Twitter, Instagram, he's Mr. Jason O. Wilson. So check those out For us, you can find me at jocco.com You can also find both of us on social media.

Do you have some kind of an internet web website? Nothing actionable. You know, you're going to go there and you're going to be like whatever. It's like, you know. So don't worry about it. So if we're looking for you or me, they can find me with jocco.com,

but they can find you at equitral on the social media activities. I'm at joccoe Willink on the social media activities. Just be careful. because don't let those activities turn into an addiction, which is what happens. Thanks once again to Jason Wilson for coming out here and spending all this time talking through his lessons learned, his protocols. Outstanding, much appreciated. Thank you, Jason, for continuing to help people around the world.

Also, thanks to the men and women of our armed forces who are out there on the front lines currently protecting us and our way of life. Also thanks to our police law enforcement firefighters paramedics EMTs dispatchers correctional officers board patrol secret service and all the other first responders who are doing the same thing protecting us right here at home Thank you all and everyone else out there In the book battle cry by Jason Wilson He refers to a quote that encapsulates a powerful idea and that idea is You must be broken broken to become whole and I think there's two aspects to that number one if you want to

become whole you got to break yourself that means you got to push yourself that's how you become stronger smarter better that's how you become whole I think it's also important to think about the fact that the world's gonna push you the world is gonna push you and break you but that activity is what makes us strong and powerful and whole in the end so if you want to be a comprehensive human in a sense in the end we must go for broke the Zecco and Jocko out