Jocko Podcast - 499: Squelch The Noise. Disciplined Frameworks to Avoid Manipulation.

Episode Date: July 16, 2025

>Join Jocko Underground< How overreacting to headlines, battlefield reports, or business setbacks creates unnecessary panic and poor decision-making. Using the analogy of a “squelch” button on military radios, he explains the need to filter noise, assess information logically, and avoid emotional responses. Leaders must detach, gather reliable intel, and act with calm deliberation. From combat to media consumption, Jocko emphasizes processing input through disciplined frameworks to avoid manipulation, maintain perspective, and preserve credibility and mental clarity in chaotic environments.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Janko podcast number 499 with Echo Charles and me, Janko Wilink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. So I see a lot of people freaking out about things on a kind of regular basis. People reacting, people overreacting, even in some cases, panicking based on what they hear, what they see, what they think, the way things are presented to them. And that's not good. by the way, in combat is, that's a disaster.

In combat, that's a disaster. If you're freaking out when something happens, it's a disaster. But it's not just a disaster in combat. It will cause problems in business and it'll cause problems in your life too. One of the things that you have when you have a military radio and they don't have them anymore. They don't have a digital version of it. But have you ever heard of a squelch button before? Yes, yeah.

Yeah. So squelch button on the old radios that we used to have. There was a squelch knob and you would turn that squelch knob to get rid of the white noise like a white noise is a is a lower level signal that's coming through the air at all times and you don't want to hear that white noise don't want that in your air so you turn that squelch enough so that it blocks any of that lower level noise you don't hear it anymore but then when someone else on that same radio frequency keys up their radio it breaks through and you can hear what their communication is so that's what you do you adjust it so that you can't hear the white noise because the white noise doesn't mean anything it's just noise it's just causing distraction it's breaking your concentration and also it's drowning out the other important sounds because if you got white noise and then someone

makes an actual radio call you might not hear it because it didn't break squelch it was already in there it's just mixed in with everything else so as a leader and as a person, you've got to figure out a way to do that same thing for the various inputs that you're getting from the world. And there's a lot of them. There's definitely a lot of them. You got to figure out what matters and what doesn't matter, what's important or what's not important. And this is a skill that you kind of have to develop. This isn't something you're just naturally going to be born with, you know, as a human being, you're going to, as an animal,

you're going to like be paranoid and pay attention everything on the battlefield there's a lot of things going on there's you're going to have some kind of problems right you're going to have enemy movement you're going to have friendly movement you're going to be getting reports over the radio you're going to get updates for the operation you're going to get any contact's going to happen somewhere timelines are going to get shifted and changes intel's going to come in while you're in the field people are going to be crossing phase lines at very moments execution checklist is going to be getting executed adjacent units are going to be sending up their reports so there's going to be a lot of things that are happening out there not going on and you have to learn to apply that that that squelch to things that aren't going to impact you now it's important to say that you can't just ignore right this happens on a radio as well if you turn up that squelch too much nothing will break through it So now I've just silenced everything.

Oh, everything seems quiet. Yeah, because no one's breaking squirrels. So you can't crank it up to where you can't hear anything else. That's like a form of target fixation. But you got to turn it up and then you back it off until it breaks. Then you put it back and you go back and forth. But you have to, you can't pay attention to all those things that I just listed simultaneously with the same level of care about each and one of those things. Enemy movement, friendly movement, reports, updates, enemy contact.

Like you can't, because there might be an enemy contact that's five or six sectors away. Do you need to know about it? Do you think you need to know about it? Feels like you do, but if it's far away. Yeah, you kind of need to know, but you don't need to focus on it. Like you might recognize that if I call the QRF right now, I might not get them very quickly because there's another element in a contact a few sectors away. So that's just, you just have to, as I say sometimes noted, right?

You've got to be paying attention. You've got to put it into the, you know, that's why you say Roger, right? Roger, I understand. There's an enemy contact with a friendly unit, a few sectors away. It's not going to interfere with my operation at all unless I need QRF or unless I need Kazivak. So those are things just to keep in mind. So if I'm thinking I might have to call QRF, if I'm thinking I might need to call a quick

reaction force and I know that there's another element that's engaged, I might call it a little bit sooner than I would if I knew I had them on standby immediately. So those are the kind of things you got to pay attention to, but I'm not asking for more information. I'm like, well, what, how many enemy fighters are there? And are there any casualties yet? And what maneuver elements are entering the field? Like, I'm not asking for amplifying information. I'm just taking it in and it's noted. And it might increase, right? So I pay attention to it a little bit, but things might change. The enemy might start maneuvering in our direction or there might be a helicopter now entering the zone or what started off as like small arms fire now has escalated into some

kind of a complex coordinated attack. I need to know about that because now I know if I call for QRF they might not be coming because they're going to be over in this other sector dealing with that massive problem. So when you turn up the squelch, you can't turn up the squelch until it blocks everything out and you still got to pay attention to these other things but you can't let them distract you from what's actually happening now this is this is very this is adjacent to the thought which we've talked about before that the first report from the battlefield is always wrong now that's an extreme statement right and usually this this quote is attributed to patent uh the first report from field is always wrong. I wouldn't say the first report is always wrong, but I would say the first

report from the field is not going to be completely accurate at a minimum. Now, why is it that a report from the field, the first one and the second one, and the third one, why is it that you have to kind of pay attention to those and not commit 100% when you hear a report from the field? Well, the first of all, when you get a report from someone from the field, that's coming from one person. It's one person that is seeing something happening. It's not corroborated with anybody else. It's wrapped up, by the way, with a bunch of fear, with a bunch of stress, with a bunch of anxiety, which means it's already amplified. And that person only has their perspective. So if it's just their perspective, it's inaccurate because there's a lot more things.

So when you're getting mortared When you're getting mortared You're sitting getting mortared I've been sitting getting mortared before And when you're sitting getting mortared The whole world could be getting mortared It might as well feel like you're the whole world's getting mortared And I haven't been in like a World War

Not even in the same realm As a World War I artillery bombardment I'm talking taking some mortar rounds And by some let's say two or three mortars at a at a crack but when those mortars are inbound and you know that they're coming your way you might as well like it feels like you can't you can't accurately judge what the what is happening in the world all you know is we're getting mortared so if I was to call you and you are headquarters and I'm like we're getting a mortar barrage right now well what does that

actually mean does that mean three mortars are going to hit in my vicinity and there's 60 millimeter mortars, which are not even anything, comparison to a 120 millimeter mortar. Like there's totally different things. So, but when I'm calling you and telling you, I'm getting mort,

we're getting mortared right now. Like, what's your reaction? Is your reaction, okay, we need to send a casualty evacuation. Do we need to get aircraft overhead to try and identify the mortar positions, these enemy mortar positions? Well, no, because the fact of the matter

is we're only going to get three mortars. And then they're going to be gone. And the people that shot the motors are already in a vehicle and they're driving away. So it doesn't really matter. So what we have to do as leaders, do we got to, we got to, we got to take a wrap off. Have you ever heard that expression before? Yeah, from you. Okay, you heard it from me.

You think it's a civilian expression at all? Take a wrap off. I think it might be. Maybe. It means, freaking calm down is what it means. Take a wrap off. Another translation for that could be detached. a little bit, take a step back, and process what is actually happening. Now, listen, everything

that I'm saying right now, look, we're talking about combat, but I'm going to get into how this applies to everyday life. But there's an Army manual, Army Techniques, publication, ATP2, TAC01.3, intelligence preparation of the battlefield. IPB, it's a real buzzword back in the day. IPB. IPB, IPB, intelligence preparation of the battlefield. And they break down a process in that manual of how you bring information and intelligence into your world and make sense of it.

So according to the manual, IPB is described as the, quote, the systematic process of analyzing the mission variables of terrain, enemy, weather and civilian considerations in an area of interest to determine their effect on operations. That's a long way of saying. They're trying to figure out what is what picture is being painted. And some of the steps that they have are, number one, identify and intake relevant data, determine gaps, initiate collection. So you're going to look at the picture.

You're going to intake relevant data. And the first thing you're supposed to do is determine like, what are we missing? That's the first thing you're supposed to do. what are we missing? Which is an incredibly simple yet, yet profound technique when you hear something instead of reacting to it, react by saying, hey, what are we missing? What an incredible process. We hear something.

We see something. Instead of making a judgment about that thing, instead say, hey, what are we missing here? What are the gaps? And once we figure out what the gaps are, then we initiate. collecting so that we can fill those gaps. So we're trying to paint a more clear picture. That's step number one. Step number two,

analyze and process data for operational impact. Okay, so now we're starting to collect this information. And then the last one is refine and corroborate threat models using process data. So that's the last thing that you do. You're actually going to process and refine it and corroborate it over and over again. And and what's important is this whole process is an ongoing process. It goes on and on. It's a continual refinement.

They say here, this is a quote from that manual. A key aspect of IPB is refinement. The conclusions made and the products developed during IPB are continually refined throughout the operation. This information is incorporated into the running estimate as, new information is obtained and further analysis is conducted during situation development. This refinement ensures that the commander's decisions are based on the most current information and intelligence available. So what that says to me is another good, simple, yet profound

way of thinking is to never think, I know something. I know this is what's going on. I know this is what we're dealing with. That's not happening. In fact, there's a funny expression that we were taught in the SEAL teams to use, which appears to be ATB. And this was a huge deal because if you were passing information, intelligence, so we're out doing a reconnaissance back in the day, about there, and you're looking at a target site.

And we're out in this target site and you'd see, and by the way, these are training operations that I'm talking about, you'd be out at a target site and, you know, they'd set up these cool targets and they'd be you know they'd make fake missiles you know face fake ground air missile and you'd see them pull it out on like a trailer and these guys were um bad actors but they're seals but they're acting like bad guys right and they pull out the the trailer with a missile looking thing on it and you know as a new guy you write back hey they've got a they got a surface to air missile you know that's on a launch trailer and what they teach really quickly is no no that's what a

appears to be because you don't know what it actually is. Yeah. So very important. Yeah, that's a, that is a good one. There's a another one in the same vein instead of saying yes or I think so. You say, I believe so. And the only reason I think it's different from I think so is because when you say, I think so, it sounds really unsure, right?

Where it's like kind of ambiguous almost, you know, sometimes. And if you say yes, then you're doing what you said is a violation where it's like, well, you don't know that for sure, you know? But it's like, hey, it really appears to be so I believe so, you know, kind of a thing. Yeah. To sort of narrow it down, but leave that wiggle room for like, hey, but keep in mind, it could very well not be the case, you know, kind of a thing. Yeah. And plus it's actually an interesting set of words, I think versus I believe. Yeah.

Because I think means I'm leaning towards like, yeah, that a, that's, that's a, that's, you know, That's a missile. Yeah. Right? I think it's a missile. Yeah. As opposed to, I believe it's a missile because we know that I, what I believe could be wrong. Yeah.

No, well, what I think could be wrong too. But. Yeah, it feels like, tell me if it feels like this to you. When someone says, I think, I think, it feels like there's such a huge margin for like, hey, I'm not sure. Like, there's, I think. I think. Oh, so you think I think is less compelling. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. That's what I, that's what it feels like. Yeah. That's what you believe. I believe so yeah. Jack. Good, yeah, those are good points.

So then there's another manual. FM2-TAC22.3, human intelligence collector operations. And this outlines of methodology as well. Do you know what human intelligence is? Yeah. Humint. Yes, hum, I'll look at you. Freaking tactical echo has entered the chat.

Yeah, man. These are, yes, interacting with other human beings. beings the other human beings generally speaking are called sources in the military we call them sources so that would be someone that is you know has knowledge usually a local national and they're a source for knowledge we call them a source and so we have teams that gather human intelligence from various sources human sources there's also sources that are digital sources but generally when you talk about human you talk about the human sources you're talking about a person so this

says, quote, processing identifies and exploits that information which is pertinent to the commander's intelligence requirements and facilitates situational understandings. Examples of processing include developing film, enhancing imagery, translating a document from a foreign language, converting electronic data into standardized report that can be analyzed by a system operator and correlating dissimilar or jumbled information by assembling like elements before the. the information is forwarded for analysis. So that to me is huge because before they even start to corroborate and look at this information, it's already getting filtered.

It's already getting translated. It's already getting kind of put through a bit of a filter. And then they forward it for analysis. And when they say forward for analysis, what they mean is sending that information into, that's been gathered into the senior intel officers. So up above them in the chain of command, the G2 or the J2 or the N2, whatever organization you're working in. And it says, quote, in this step, the G2 or S2 integrates evaluated, analyzed, and interpreted information from single or multiple sources and disciplines into finished intelligence products. So there's a lot that's going on before we're making any moves.

And again, this doesn't mean that we don't react at all when something happens. get a piece of information, right? There's, there's small moves that you can make. If we hear that, oh, there's another sector that is an enemy contact, might we start to monitor their radio channel? Yeah, we might do that. Like, hey, let's go ahead and monitor see what's going on. Might I pull back some of my positions?

Let's not get overextended right now because if something goes bad in this other sector, look, we're not there right now. But if something goes bad, they're already an enemy contact. Might I say, hey, you know what? Let's hold what we got. Don't don't don't get any more spread out right now. Let's just hold like that's just a little iterative step and 10 minutes go by and they go Contacts out cool. We continue with our mission, but we can make these little

iterative decisions without saying oh the other other another elements in contact collapse security. We're going to go support them. We don't even know if they need support or not. So we could pre-stage the team. We could we could we could kind of slow down slow roll a little bit. I could give you know if we're back on base we could give a warning order. I could say hey echo we might have a Q or F, we got to do our heck, we might have to go out in this sector. Hey, echo, make sure the vehicles are pre-like, I could, I could make some small little movement in the direction in case things start. Maybe I just have to, you know, update you as a key leader. Maybe I bring the platoon chiefs and the platoon officers into the room and say, hey, here's what's going on. Just to keep my breast to the situation, just give them a situation of what's happening. So we're going to inform the team

as to what's going on, but we're not going to freak out and we're not going to be taking a bunch of actions about it. And this goes back to the whip, the whip theory, which is when headquarters or corporate decides to make a little change, which takes them four seconds to make. And this came from being on a deployed on a ship in a seal platoon. And we got a mission tasking from our headquarters that was on another ship and they said hey you guys are going to launch on the navy boats at such and such a time so we spend the next four hours lugging all of our boats up to you know to the or no they said helicopter we're going to launch on helicopters we have to lug all our boats up to the flight deck bring the gas up there you got to you got to coordinate getting the gas

up there you got a firefight like navy dudes that are firefighters they got to go and set a corridor for you to bring the mo gas called mo gas up there get everything staged, build these limp ducks are called limp ducks because you got to slightly deflate the boats and then you wrap one inch tubular nylon around them and you rig them up with,

damn, with honeycomb cardboard. You got to put the engine because they're going to drop like 10 feet. You got to, it's a real process, bro. Yeah. It's not fun.

So five hours into this, we're almost done building these limp ducks and we get another call. Actually, you guys are, you guys are going to launch, you know, directly from the well deck, which is nine stories below, the big, the back of this giant ship lowers down, this, this, like, ramp lowers down and you can just launch your boats from there.

So they go, hey, actually, you're not using helicopters, you're using the boat. You're going to launch off the ramp. Okay, cool. Great. We're breaking all this shit down, throwing away honeycomb, getting the fire crew set up, lugging everything back down serves, re-rigging the boat for sea. Four hours goes by, we get another call. Actually, you know, you're going to go ahead and do Helos.

By the way, this is just someone said, oh, yeah, they'll use Helos. Okay, cool. You know, actually, it looks like there might be weather. Okay, well, just send them on the boats and said, okay, cool. They're making a decision in four seconds. We actually did this. We re-rig the boats down in the well deck.

We got told Hilo again. We went back up top side. Did the whole freaking rigum roll again. Got told no again. So this really happened. This really happened. Yeah. this is and I'm so glad it happened to me when I was a young enlisted guy

because it made me you know you've heard that saying don't forget where you came from I never forgot where I came from from this event right here dude you freaking lug 55 horsepower motors up and down damn ladderways on a ship nine times you're pissed yeah and you know that they just went oh yeah okay well we'll go and launch from the well deck that's fine yeah and then four hours out oh no no oh there might be weather okay well we'll go ahead and launch from the helos that's great okay boom yeah so that little whip that little movement at the top can create real problems for your people so you have to understand that as a leader and it's not it's not just in combat situations not just in the military it happens in business as well

where some little reaction happens in the business world and we say oh there's going to be a new regulation Let's make this change to the widget that we're making. And you don't recognize what it's going to take to make that change to the widget that we're making. You guys used to give me hassle me about this, you and your brother, Jade Charles, because I'd say, well, just make an app for it, or I'd say just program it or whatever. And you guys would both start giving me a freaking stupid lecture about how long it actually takes to do stuff. But that's the same thing, right? It is the exact same thing.

That's what I was thinking about the whole time. Yeah. Yeah, as a non-military person, it's still very clear where these, where that miscommunication can kind of exist. Even with like video stuff, I mean, not to go too deep enough video compared to military operations, I was like that. But it's the same thing where, yeah, if you don't know how it works, you're like, yeah, yeah, just change this text to say this. But meanwhile, it took like three programs and eight days to render out this text. So it's like, okay, I'll change whatever you need to. And then midway through the change, you're like, yeah, you know what, now that I think of it, yeah, probably just go, you know, bring it back to the original.

And it's that same thing conceptually. Yeah. So interestingly, what got me, what got me thinking about this topic was, was not just was business, but combat, but more important life. And specifically right now, the media. and every type of media that's out there. And as I mentioned, people freak out about things that are happening. And a lot of the things that they see that are happening, they freak out in the media. And a lot of that is due to the goal of a headline, right?

The goal of a headline is the goal of a headline is to get you to click on that headline. Right. That's the goal. And in order to get you to click, there needs to be something compelling. in that headline to make you click on it and there's an old the old saying uh if it if it bleeds it leads you ever heard this saying yeah because they want travesties they want emotion and there's there's such a thing there's something called the negativity bias and we've covered biases on on the um underground podcast but the bias the negativity biases we as human beings were programmed

to focus on negative things and the reason we're programmed to focus on negative things because when we were cavemen in order to survive if there was something that was seen as a threat we needed to focus on it we weren't focused on the happy stuff because we would be dead So we're programmed genetically to focus on negative things so when you throw a negative headline out We're all about it. We're gonna click on that thing and negative words will will will translate into increased click rates, which is what they want. That's how they get their advertising line and get you to click on that thing. They need emotional. Emotional triggers, fear, anger, excitement, surprise, but it's a lot easier to make someone angry than it is to make them happy.

You have to squelch. You have to create a squelch button in your mind. So that you pay attention to it, but you don't overreact to it. Some, some, let's look at some headlines we've had last, uh, I went back to the year 2000. The reason I went back to the year 2000, I was on deployment in the year 2000. And they, they had this thing called Y2K. Do you remember this? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Here's a headline from the year 2000. Y2K, the end of the world as we know it. That's a freaking headline, dude. Straight up. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that goes hard for sure. That's a headline.

So that's meant to fill you with fear and make you click on it. But it's also getting registered. You're registering that. 2009, WHO declares public health emergency as U.S. swine flu cases rise. Remember the swine flu thing happening? What about 2010? Avian influenza, the looming threat. These are just headlines.

I'm reading. Just headlines. 2011. U.S. debt ceiling crisis could the U.S. default? 2013. Ebola in the air, a nightmare that could happen. And by the way, that's CNN. This is not some, you know,

Off-brand low red thing. This is CNN. 2014, new Ebola cases may soon reach 10,000 a week. Officials predict. That's New York Times. 2016. Brexit will cause immediate economic collapse. Immediate economic collapse.

And by the way, that's the BBC. That's the BBC. Again, these are not small. like little unknown organizations. 2016. Economists. A Trump win would tank the markets. 2018.

North Korea will launch a nuclear strike by 2018. I'm going to say that again. North Korea will launch a nuclear strike. Bro. Straight of nuclear war. 2019. Climate catastrophe by 2020. 2020.

Bitcoin will be worthless by 2020. That's CNBC. New York will be underwater by 2015. That's an old one. Election meltdown is a real possibility in 2020 presidential race. Author warns. Then, I mean, look, do we need to talk about COVID? 2021, COVID-19, the end of the world is we need.

know it. Bro, have you ever had a cold before? Shit got wild. 2022. Global food shortages will spark mass riots. 2023. Forecast for U.S. recession within year hits 100% in blow to Biden. And by the way, that's from Bloomberg.

That didn't happen. The economy still grew. 2024. Election officials say democracy is still at risk in 2024. look these are ones we now remember right golf stream you know the golf stream like the the atmospheric movements yeah golf stream could collapse as early as 2025 studies suggests so these are the kind of headlines that are being written and and listen these again these aren't things you can just turn off the squelch on like you got to pay attention to things you got to be you got to say noted

You got to say Roger. Yeah, especially if it's going to be the end of the world. Yeah, especially you got to play close to attention to that one. But those are headlines from, you know, big organizations. When you get down to like the YouTube level, here's YouTube. Here's some YouTube titles I pulled for you. Each one of these has like a million plus views. World on the brink, nuclear threat escalates in Europe.

massive cyber attack shuts down major banks are you safe i like how they're now speaking to you the next pandemic new virus outbreak sparks panic again all these with over a million views china taiwan tensions explode is war inevitable i guess these questions a lot of these are come in a question format. Extreme weather destroys cities. Is this the new normal? Deadly heat waves sweep the globe, millions at risk.

Millions. Like I remember, you know, when I was a kid and growing up, there'd be heat waves in New York City and, like, people would die. Yeah. They'd be sad. Of course, yeah.

Financial meltdown. The next great depression is here. Now, listen, again, do you need to, Can you just ignore these things? I'm not saying ignore these things. Do you need to pay attention what's going on in the economy? Yeah, do you need to pay attention what's going on with the weather?

Yes. Do you need to pay attention what's going on with health in the world? Sure. Do you need to pay attention what's going on with global politics and make sure that, you know, China's not invading Taiwan? Yeah, pay attention to those things. But if you allow yourself to just to freak out about this stuff all the time, you're going to be in a bad spot.

But that's what you're, so what you're up against, what we're up against, what we're up against is this type of provocative, fear-inducing, clickbait 24-hours day. And by the way, we also lose the fact of what actually important. Like, what headline are you going to run when there's a real threat? What are they going to say? What can they say that doesn't sound as bad as millions at risk, right? Or war is inevitable. Like, what are they going to tell us when war actually isn't inevitable?

What are they going to say then? or when it is the end of the world or when the end of the world is coming how are they going to notify us of that if we don't believe them because they've been crying wolf day after day year after year so this was kind of an interesting tool i thought uh FM once again going back to the human intel collection operation it says normal policy of not relying on single source information should help prevent deceptions of this type from being effective And it also says the Army uses a standard reliability matrix to rate both the source and the content of the reports, acknowledging that initial information is often of uncertain value until confirmed by other means. So they have various descriptions. The first thing they talk about is reliability. So reliable. This is the best form.

This is the A level. Reliable. No doubt about authenticity, trust. Worthiness or competency history of complete reliability you know how many media sources fit into there? Hmm. I don't know one I can't think of any Usually reliable minor doubts history of mostly valid information That's B C fairly reliable some doubts has provided valid information in the past Okay D not usually reliable

significant doubts has provided valid information in the past. Okay. E. Unreliable. Lacks authenticity, trustworthiness and competency. History of invalid information. Dude,

do you know how many media outlets have put out invalid information? Invalid. That have an actual history of invalid information? It's a lot of media organizations. And the other crazy thing is they don't even, they don't even admit it when it happens. Yeah. They just let it ride.

It very seldom do they correct their story. Especially now with the internet, they can just kind of sneak in and change it. And then the worst rating is reliability cannot be judged insufficient information to evaluate reliability. Actually, I don't think that's the worst. I think E is the worst. There's reliability cannot be judged, which again, that's a category to think about. When you hear something or you garner a piece of information to say, you know what, I can't even judge whether this is accurate or not.

I have no history. I don't know, I don't know where this information is coming from. I don't know what the source is like. So then you get into what's the likelihood that this is true or not. The highest level is confirmed. Confirmed by other independent sources, logical and consistent with other info. Just imagine if you just got a piece of information and you just ran through this matrix. You said, wait a second.

Is this, is this logical and consistent with other info? That's a predicate to saying, I believe. believe this. It's like, oh, this actually makes sense with everything else I've heard. And by the way, there's other independent sources. That's something that we can confirm. Make sense and confirmed by other independent sources. Okay, cool. Then there's probably true, logical and consistent with other relevant information, but not confirmed. See, people confuse these sometimes. Yeah. Because something can be logical and consistent, but unconfirmed. Yeah. And also, I think, Sometimes we as people mistake what something means when it's logical.

Like logical, if you really understand the definition of logical, sometimes you understand that some people don't know what that means. Yeah, there's also the fact that, have you ever heard there's a thing with Nancy Pelosi? And she's, she's kind of in a press conference type thing. and she goes through this loop of how you get someone to write a story or a document of some kind, a book, magazine, newspaper article that sort of calls out an idea that is not true. But then you fast forward and people start to refer to that document as if that document is true,

but people don't go and check the original document. And so you end up with this, I, I, I, again, this is, I'm not giving 100% accurate information right now because I can't remember the whole loop, but it was a whole loop that she described where you basically are creating a reality by someone writes a newspaper article about something. Then someone writes another newspaper article and refers to that article. And you go a few layers deep and all of a sudden this thing that is not true at all becomes true and people are referring back to it. So you got to watch out for that too in this day and age. Then there's number three, possibly true, reasonably logical, agrees with some relevant information not confirmed. Number four, doubtfully true.

Not logical, but possible. No other information on the subject, not confirmed. Improbable, which is not logical contradicted by other relevant information. And then the same thing you get this category of cannot be judged. The validity of the information cannot be determined. So what I'm saying is the reason I'm walking through this. is that the army has an entire methodology to process and categorize information that it receives. So, and I would even say we could probably sit down and develop another matrix on how we're going to react,

meaning like the lowest level of reaction might be, hey, let's inform people, let's inform the leadership. And the highest level of reaction means, let's get our gear on and get ready to fight. You know what I'm saying? Or whatever that case may be. But we should, as humans, in this onslaught of information, we should at least put together some kind of a thought process in your head where you can squelch out and you can correctly categorize a lot of these reports and these emotional headlines that come in that are literally meant to spin you up.

That's how they're written. And then we have to modulate our response so that we don't overreact. So there's a bunch of things that we can do that are going to help us not overreact, not freak out. And it's by making sure that as you intake information, you process it correctly, you actually think through it. And then you modulate your response accordingly. Now, in order to do this, of course, we have to detach. And detach is a skill that you can learn and you can practice. But there's a protocol for it.

And I've actually was talking to some people and I, and I've made a couple little additions to my detachment protocol for people to make it easier for them. You've heard some of them before, right? So what's the first thing we're doing is we're going to take a step back? Literally take a step back. Like there's something going on. Something is making your emotions start to increase. Take a step back and take a breath. Right.

That's the first thing we're going to do. And then we're going to look around and we're going to broaden our vision and that makes us more calm and the breath makes us more calm. And taking a step back makes us more calm. All these things are set to make us more calm. Now, I'm going to give you another. These are a couple little things that I've added to my detachment protocol that I think will help people be able to detach.

And I'm not sure if there's a better word for this, but I'm going to use the word touchpoint. It's like a physical action that you can take that will force you mentally to utilize your brain. So, for instance, if someone is, if someone, this is a little bit of a joke at Eshleleon front, like if someone's asking a question of me, I'll sort of like put my hand on my chin and my finger over my mouth. And everyone jokes that, you know, it kind of looks like the thinking, man,

you ever seen that statue? Yeah, except for I put my hand kind of over my mouth. And everyone jokes that, oh, you do that so, I do that so I don't interrupt you. Like you're trying to ask me a question or you're making a comment.

I literally will put my hand over my mouth to keep my freaking mouth shut. because I know if I'm jumping in, overreacting to what you're saying, it's not going to be good. You could do something like that. You could clasp, maybe you clasp your hands. Like, you feel your pressure starts to rise.

Like, clasp your hands and like tap your thunds. Do something. Put your fingers on your temple. Like, okay, let me think about this. Like, just do something physical. I mean, I used to like, when I had my gear on, I would like just like put my hand on my pistol, like just check where it was.

I'd put my hand, you know, you check your safety. You're just going. going through just doing something that's kind of getting your mind and body connected, right? And at the same time, getting your mind and body disconnected. So you're doing something physical that is going to help you recognize that you're in control of the situation. And then the other part here that I've been telling people lately is like, have a diddy. Have a diddy, a little something that you can say that will get you to frequent. and calm down, right?

You know, you might say something like, uh, recognize, analyze and react. That's something that I learned when I got to seal team one. They're like, oh, and things are getting crazy.

Recognize, analyze, analyze, and realize what's happening. Look around. Analyze what the situation is, and then react to it. Um, you know,

reflect before you react. Something like that. Wait for the deaths to settle. Just, you know, it's even that right. Okay. Just wait for the desk to settle. Uh,

don't let, don't let the spark start a fire. Cool, cool, cool, head's clear a path. Cool, cold head, have a little

ditty like that that you can say to yourself that will help you not act like an idiot. I have one. What is it? Perfect form.

Is that when you're lifting? Perfect form. Yeah, you can use it even when you're not lifting, though. So it's basically prevents you from being emotional.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. One of the best ones came from, General Mattis, who said, engage your brain before you engage your weapon.

This was his guidance to the first Marine Division before Operation Iraqi Freedom. He said, quote, use good judgment and act in the best interest of our nation. You are part of the world's most feared and trusted force. Engage your brain before you engage your weapon. Share your courage with each other as we enter the uncertain terrain north of the line of departure. What great advice. But it's a little ditty that you can say to yourself. Oh, you're about to engage your weapon?

Wait, did I engage my brain first? That is what we have to do. And if we do that and you don't allow yourself to get spun up or you don't allow yourself to get frazzled or flustered or emotional, you're going to be in a much better situation. You have to detach. You have to assess. You have to put that information that you're receiving through that matrix in your head and then you just make good small iterative decisions that move you in what you believe to be

the right direction without expending a too much time too much effort too many resources too much leadership capital you don't go overboard and if you do that when you receive information again we're not i'm sure some people say oh you're you're ignoring this stuff it's going to the economy is going to collapse or the what the the uh the uh the uh the uh the uh the uh uh weather is going to get bad or the cities are going to be destroyed it's like okay okay I'm not saying ignore everything but I'm saying put it in perspective if you're freaking out about everything then nothing really matters and you're not you're just hearing a bunch you end up hearing just a bunch of white noise you need to be able to squelch enough of those things what's pertinent right now

and if you do that this is going to make your your business life your family life and you need to be your emotional health a lot better. And it's going to make your decision making process a lot more sound. And that's going to improve everything in your life. So that's what I got. How often do you think is, is it that people react in these ways because they enjoy it? I think there's a little bit of that. I also think if you're, I think once you're aware of it.

of it. It's not a hard thing to, it's not like an addiction. Now, some people, I think, to your point, there are some people that like to get angry. They want, they're looking for something to make them mad, right? That happens. But a lot of people, I think, and some people I think learn this just, they don't learn it consciously, but subconsciously, they've all gone, oh yeah, that's another freaking crazy headline, right? Right. Yes. But then they get hit with that one headline that gets to them. You know people that they're more happy when they're mad. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, you know, they're clicking on these things and they're getting mad and they're swearing at the TV or whatever. Yeah. You know, rage tweeting. Yeah, yeah, hell yeah. I think there's also a decent percentage of people that this, they need this protocol in their life. Oh, yeah.

You know what I mean? I believe most of us need this. Yeah, I mean, there's people that really get frustrated. and and over things that they have very little control over. And by someone, by entities that are literally trying to get them to be emotional about the subject. That's what they're trying to do. And so I think setting up a little protocol. And the other thing is, is a lot of these things, I mean, if you look at the headlines that come out every single day,

there's like a catastrophic thing that's happening every single day, right? Every single day there's a catastrophic event that's about to unfold on all and we're all going to die. Or whatever the case may be. Almost every single day, I'd say there's something catastrophic like that.

Right. And so if you're constantly in that cycle, I don't think that's healthy, man. I don't think that's healthy. If it's truly getting to you in an emotional way, then I don't think that's very healthy. I don't think that's very good for you.

And I also don't think it's not just from like a physical health thing, but what do you, how do you eventually differentiate between what's real and what's not real? Like what's an actual threat and what's not an actual threat? And how are you going to contend with a new threat to our existence every single day or a new threat to the economy every single day or a new threat to the environment every single day or a new threat to our society every single day? Like every day there is a major imposing existential threat. And if that's where you're at, it's not healthy. And even if you're just getting angry all the time, like that doesn't help you interact with your family or your coworkers. Right.

So there's very few things that are going to matter that much. And so if you don't learn to squelch some of these less important things, and again, I'm not saying ignore them. Like, yeah, there's tensions between. China and Taiwan. Should you know about that? Yeah, should you pay attention? Yeah, there's war escalating in Ukraine.

Okay, well, yeah, you need to pay attention to that. There's Israel and Gaza going on. There's, that's bad. We need to pay attention to what's going on over there. But each one of those things, if you got really focused on it, you could, you could overfocus and you could turn your world into white noise and you might forget that your kid just came home from school and got an A on her math test. And maybe you should like congratulate her and say, good job studying.

Yeah. You know, you know, you probably know a few people, you know, one or two people who tend to catastrophize things. Every once in a while, if I come across someone like that, I'll kind of smell it on them that. I feel like they're just, they're kind of enjoying it. I'm not saying it's making them happy, but I feel like they're getting some kind of a payoff for being like that. Well, well, from a leadership perspective, it's not good. Right? From a leadership perspective, if you catastrophize things, it's not good because, because first of all, there's very few things that are actual catastrophes, right, that are full on catastrophes, global catastrophes.

There's just not that many things that are full on global catastrophes. So if everything, or the same thing with, you know, with your business. Like there are very few things. Hopefully you've got a business that is sound and secure enough that there's not many looming catastrophes that could take down. your whole business, right? I mean, very seldom do businesses get taken down by a singular event. Very seldom does that happen. But they make mistakes and they have to recover from those mistakes. But if you as a leader, everything is a catastrophe, that hurts. That's going to hurt because people want to trust you. But you're saying that the world's, the sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling,

Skying's falling, the sky never falls, but you've just lost leadership credibility each and every time. Now listen, when something is a true threat, you need to address it, obviously. But catastrophizing everything that occurs is not going to be beneficial for you as a leader. People will lose trust in you if everything is a disaster. Everything is like, oh my gosh, the sky is falling. You're crying wolf all the time. The sky is always falling. People lose trust in you as a leader.

So you have to be very cautious in, allowing something to appear, something to come from you as if it's going to be a catastrophe. What does it take to take down a business? I mean, we'll do another review of some of these companies that have made some kind of a mistake and had some kind of a catastrophic impact where the company failed, like Lehman brothers, like they, in the financial crash, went under. But there's a bunch of other ones that were in similar situations. that didn't go over under.

Yeah, you're right. That's a good way to put it in perspective where it's like, what does it really take? So you could go down the list of that, you know, that list that you said. Like, okay, you know, the end of the world as you know it. Like, what would it really take for it to be the end of the world as I know? You know, kind of a thing.

It's like, well, it's kind of a hard, that's a big statement there, Channel 8 News. And then by the way, like if it was something that took down your business, or what is what is going on with the rest of the world there might be some kind of a legitimate global scenario that's happening but again what does it take to cause a global scenario like that's got to be something absolutely massive you know even with covid 19 which was a global phenomenon and depending on where you were it may have had little to no impact on what was happening look at it may have had a bigger impact you know people died from covid but there's also a lot of people that just kind of carried

on. And so, but that's in the last, in the last, we, I guess the global economic collapse of 2007, 2008, that was, you know, again, depending on who you are, guess how much that impacted me? I was in the military. I'm collecting my paycheck every two weeks. Guess how much it impacted me? The global economic collapse. It didn't impact me at all. I didn't even, I didn't know it was happening. I mean, I saw it on the news. I saw it like a headline, but I, I, I, I didn't, it didn't impact me at all. I didn't have any big investments. I didn't have a bunch of real estate.

I wasn't upside down on my mortgage. I had, at that time, I had two houses and I kept paying my mortgage because I kept getting my paycheck and my mortgage was a fixed mortgage and it was just normal. So this global event didn't, you know, it just didn't impact me that much. And look, some people, I had, I had a friend. He tells a great story. He's a seal. and he had bought, I think he bought eight houses

during the no doc loan scenario. And it's so funny, he tells a great story because he'll be like, yeah, I was walking around the team thinking everyone was so stupid. And yeah, he just thought everyone's so stupid. He's the smartest guy in the world because he had now eight houses.

Eight houses, bro. Yeah. And he said he had a moment where he had asked like his one of his loan guys like hey well what if the value of the house doesn't go up and the guy's like oh then you can you just slowly start selling them off and you know it'd be no factor every one of his houses he was able to save his house but he lost seven houses and it was in like 45 days or something like that like it all just fell apart so yeah it greatly affected him

but that was a glow most of the guys in the teams with me didn't affect us at all. We were all just walking around like, oh, we were talking about like, you know, uh, who, what's our next training trip? You know what I mean? We were talking about what are we going to have for dinner? We weren't talking about this global global where people killed themselves. Like people killed themselves because they lost everything financially.

That was a global economic meltdown and I didn't even barely know what was happening. Wow. And I was not the only person. So. And by the way, the houses. I owned houses at the time. Like I said, I owned two houses at the time. And I think they lost like, they're by the ocean,

which was a good thing because they don't make more ocean front property, not ocean front, but they don't make more coastal property, right? There only is what there is. But in San Diego, like the eastern parts of San Diego, where they have track homes and people had bought these track homes and they could just build more track homes, and they built more track homes and more track homes. And those, those, some of the,

those things lost like 40% value, but I lost my, my homes, when I go back and do the research again, because I didn't care at the time. Like, I didn't care. I was like, I didn't even know what was happening.

But when I look back now and you look at the, the charts of how much of values went down, like coastal San Diego went down 10%. So like a house that I bought for 200 grand, you know, went down to what, 180? But I was sitting there paying the mortgage. Like it didn't even phase me at any way,

shape or form. So these, to have a true global catastrophe, and by the way, you know, diversify yourself so that you have, you're not relying on one thing. And again, this just comes down to leverage and not putting yourself in a position where the bank can take your house from you, right? Don't put yourself in that situation. Again, this, you know what else? I was driving a 1997 Dodge Grand Caravan. You know, I was driving a 10-year-old. old minivan. And so I didn't have some big loan out against my, for equity on my house. You know what I mean? Right. Would I have wanted to be driving a F350 super duty? Sure. I would have loved that. But guess what? I wasn't going to put myself in that situation buying an $80,000 truck. When I got my

minivan, I bought a used, my minivan was used and it was like, I don't know, what was it? $4,800. Who knows what it was? But it wasn't, it wasn't like an impact to my monthly budget. And I damn sure didn't have to take a loan out against my home in order to buy it. So you got to set yourself up correctly. That's actually a good point. You don't want to put yourself in a scenario where you can be impacted by a little ripple, right? Or a big ripple.

Yeah. And even that does go for these health things. Because you know how like if you look into it, the healthy you are, the best. off you'll be in these sickness scenarios. So it's kind of like that's another method of diversifying yourself in a way where it's like, yeah, sure, it can, it can be, it can affect some people for sure. But there's a certain element of it that's kind of up to you a little bit, you know, not fully, not fully.

You can get a horrible disease tomorrow, but there's also a lot of diseases you can fend off if you're living a healthy lifestyle. Just like economically, if you take a hit, if you're, as you said, diversified a little bit you know maybe it won't be affected affected as much and you have to worry about these click baity news reports coming in coming up at 11 yeah that's the that's when i first realized they were doing it by the way back in the day yeah the local news story 11 yeah like is your credit card killing you more at 11 you know like i don't know i made that up yeah no that's a good that's like sounds one i just saw today you know yeah the well you know that fake news report that i made

Then you were part of you, the robot one, right? Where at the end it says, is your weight loss pill killing you? More than, anyway, that was an homage to the old school local news. And now there is a weight loss pill that can kill you. Well, I don't know if it will kill you. I think you can make you go blind. No, I'm serious. I read some catastrophic report that the weight loss pill can make you go blind.

Hey, man, that's yet another example. You know, if you're taking a pill to lose weight, then it's like, maybe that's not the right way. Because if that thing turns against you, you tries to kill you, you know, you'd be in bad shape. But if you can just lose the weight the regular way, you know, you won't have to worry about any murderous weight loss pills or anything of that nature. Yeah, I think they made those pills for people that are like morbidly obese,

but now someone that's got to lose like nine pounds to fit in your pair of jeans is going on it. Hey, man. Run your unit. I agree with you. I believe that that is a good protocol. call yeah check well like I said detach take a step back take a breath do do a little touch point and say that little ditty whatever you're going to say I'm not going to re overreact or whatever say say what you're going to say get that little ditty going in your head you're going to make

better decisions you're going to have a better life that's what I'm saying and speaking of better life and you just mentioned this part of the life that we can control a lot of not all of but is our health so what did you train today already I did one light yes but I did another one later

what did you do a light road work road work yeah what did you do for roadwork one hour it's like a hike down and down the canyon do you listen anything or you just oh natural today today I was listening to I go sometimes sometimes on sometimes off

today I was listening to Huberman which I text him right afterwards It said this one goes hard. What was it? It was the one about, they were talking about fractals when I turned it off. Damn.

But, well, you know, these different patterns in life that just repeat themselves, how big, when you go big and small and stuff like that. A lot of it was just like, you know,

like a lot of them, but this specific one was interesting. Just how your mind works. Was there a guest on there? Yeah, there was a guest on there. I forget his name. Oh, I don't know, but it was a good one. You'll have to Google that one.

Well, or just open the podcast and press play again, but nonetheless, You did work out, but you still owe more. I owe another one. Yeah, we're good to go. We're solid. You're in the game.

We're trucking, yeah. So when you're working out, did you work out yesterday? Yes. Yeah. Yesterday I had a good day yesterday. Training, a lot of jiu jitzy training. Your yesterday was what, a five? Was it a five?

No, I lifted, ran, and then I trained jihitsu twice. Yeah, that's a five, right? And it imminently qualified. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a five. That's like, yep. It's really hard to get better. Oh, yeah. That's a five.

This is a great day. Yeah, yesterday was a one, which was good. Wait, what is it? Two is kind of a little. So it was a one. I didn't, I had to modify more because of injury. Yeah. I don't know.

We did it. We got through a BTN for sure, better than nothing. Check, check. Hey, when we're working out, need fuel. We recommend it. JoccoField. Go check out joccofuel.com. At jocofield.com, we got the goods.

We pretty much have stuff in stock. If it's not there, going to be tough to get, but we, we pretty much keep everything full stocked up at Jockerfuel all the time, joccofuel.com, free shipping over 99 bucks. And by the way, if you used to, if you used to get Jock Fuel in the day, it might take us like a few days, like four, five, sometimes six days to get it shipped. Now we, we ship either the same day or the next day immediately. So everything's in stock. We ship it quick. We got a bunch of loyalty programs. And we got what you need. We got milk protein. By the way.

I've been just drinking milk like it's crazy. Like a day like yesterday, there's no way I would have gotten my macros done if it wasn't for just drinking milk. And have you tried the root beer? No. I don't really even like root beer floats, but we got like a root beer float powder.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. GTG. Look, you need protein to rebuild. We got the best protein, the best tasting protein. We got go drinks, go energy drinks. I just had one. I might even have another one. because we're recording some underground podcasts.

So I might be going deep. Greens. What else, man? Hydrate. Joint warfare. You know, I had a friend of mine text me the other day, and he's like asking me about peptides. He's like, hey, have you tried peptides over 40? I haven't a hard time recovering.

And I was like, bro, I haven't tried peptides. I hear good things. Exactly what I told him. I used an echo Charles quote. I said, I hear good things. But I said, here's what I do. Joint warfare, super cruel, time more. I'm like, do that.

And I will say I ripped off from, I was talking to Sloan. And Sloan said he heard Mikey Musamechi say that after hard training, he goes for a jog. Now, I already run, but there's a difference between running and jogging. And Sloan was saying he feels good after he goes for a jog. I was like, oh. So what I've done is have extended my. jogs a little bit and and taking a wrap off of like the also run intense sometimes but just like a longer slower jog and I will confess feel pretty good after it it feels like it feels

like it kind of evens you out get the blood flow through the you know the the rest of the areas instead of going out going you know when a run is a chore it's like all right here we go like that's what a normal run has always been for me and I just sort of said oh okay let's see what this other type of running it feels like it feels like it feels pretty good. So that's what we got. Do those things and you will feel better. Check it out, joccofield.com. Also, you get at Walmart, Wawa, vitamin shop, GNCs, military commissaries, Afees, Hanford, Dashtores, Wakefern, Shoprite. H.E.B. down in Texas, H.E.B. down in Texas, has been out there taking care of those flood victims, which is awesome. I know Laf rolled out and

is helping out as well. So great to see. Thanks to H.E.B. for what they're doing. down there and I know we got some jocco fuel heading out there as well we also got some jocco fuel heading up to the firefighters up in Washington right now so thanks to all the firefighters that are up there fighting those fires and the rescue workers looking for flood victims yeah that's that's that's it hEB supporting them down in texas also jocco fuel available at meyers weggman's uh harris teeter public's down in florida lifetime fitness shields and a bunch of small gyms everywhere if you have Jocco fuel at your gym email JF sales at joccofuel.com and we got you covered also origin USA we got we got we make clothing here in America which is a big deal because people did not think

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We're about to record some of those. That is us answering your questions. Check that out. Jocco Underground.com. We've got YouTube channels. Also, I've written a bunch of books. Dave Burke wrote a book. Yeah, good deal too.

Called Need to Lead. You can pre-order it right now. It comes out October. You don't want to get that second-a-dish. Do you want to get a second-to-dish? No. I want to get you on the mailing list for the second-a-dish? No, sir.

Thank you. You got to get that first-a-dish from Dave Burke. Also, I've written a bunch of books. I've written a bunch of kids books. Check those out if you want. We have a leadership consultancy. It's called that Shalom Front. We solve problems through leadership.

The problems that you have inside your organization, regardless of what they are, their leadership problems. In order to solve those problems, you need leadership. Leadership is the solution. So go to eschalonfront.com. If you need leadership, consultancy, inside your organization, we can help you. Or you can come in one of our events. We've got the muster coming up December 7th through the 9th in Orlando, Florida.

If you want to come to these things, you've got to register early because they sell out. So check out the muster. Check out some of our other events. FTX, council. Just finish the council. They're awesome. We do the battlefield. Women's Assembly, September 11th through the 13th in San Antonio, Texas.

So we got a bunch of good stuff for you. Check those out. We also have online training to teach the skills of leadership. Go to extreme ownership.com if you want to learn how to lead. Leadership is a skill. It's actually a bunch of skills. You know, you just don't pick up a basketball and you're able to shoot a free throw. That doesn't happen.

you need to learn the skill. You don't pick up a guitar and you can play Led Zeppelin. It doesn't happen. It's a skill. Leadership is a skill. If you want to learn the skill of leadership, go to extreme ownership.com. Also, if you want to help service members active and retired, you want to help their families.

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Beyond the Brotherhood.org. If you want to connect with us, you can check out jocco.com or you can find us on social media. I'm at Jocco Willink. Echoes at Echo Charles. Just watch out because that algorithm will get you,

drown you in electrons and you'll lose your life. Also, thanks to the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps for holding the line around the world, leading from the front. Also, Coast Guard out there, did some epic work down there in Texas.

So thanks for what you do as well. Also thanks to our police law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, all other first responders. Thank you for keeping us safe here at home.

And for everyone else out there, let's get some final guidance from Colonel David Hackworth. He wrote a book called About Face. It's my favorite book. Here's his statements here, quote, The worst thing you can do is overreact.

If you lose your head, you lose your men. Panic is contagious. I learned in World War II that the slightest bit of excitement in a leader is transmitted to the men. You might be afraid, but the fear gets magnified in the troops. Somebody has to keep his cool. If you're a decent leader, you don't dare lose it for your own good. You've got to keep your unit up there doing its job. if a leader loses control, the whole unit can fall apart.

Calm, deliberate action saves lives. End quote. And there you go. Listen to hack. That's all we've got for tonight. And until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.