Jocko Podcast - 501: Bullets To Burning Buildings. With Army Combat Medic Rob Black

Episode Date: August 13, 2025

>Join Jocko Underground<Frontline Army medic Rob Black recounts his time with the elite Brigade Recon Troop in Ramadi, fighting alongside Navy SEALs in one of Iraq’s most dangerous cities—and how those experiences shaped his life after war.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko Podcast number 501 with Kerry Helton and me, Jocker Willink. Good evening, Carrie. Good evening. Once we arrived at Camp Ramadi in June, everyone could tell we were not in the north anymore. Mortar attacks occurred daily, and we were located right against the enemy held parts of the city. I said that correctly. The enemy controlled over 75% of the city, from government buildings to hospitals and neighborhoods. However, we held the edge of the east and the west sides of town.

We had a transition of authority scheduled around June 2006 from their brigade to ours. We would officially assume control of the operation and they would go home. The plan was set. On the night of the turnover of authority, our brigade would attack the city. We would simply push from east and west and meet in the middle no matter how long that took. Our unit was again attached to another battalion, and we were still serving conventional roles. But as a bonus, we would be in a close relationship with SEAL Team 3 task unit bruiser and began planning for our small kill team operations. We were a specialized unit within our brigade.

If there was something another unit couldn't do, an area they wouldn't go in, or a sniper they couldn't kill, they called us. We were embedded with the asymmetric warfare group personnel who helped us develop small kill team tactics Sensitive site exploitation procedures and mission analysis techniques We partnered with the Navy SEAL team Task unit bruiser and built lifelong friendships with them as we fought against the enemy and that right there is a little excerpt from a book called Chop That shit up which is by retired command sergeant major Dan Pinyon and Dan was the first sergeant of the brigade recon troop in Ramadi and tasking a bruiser we worked alongside them a ton and they were a small group of well-trained

well-led soldiers and they were moved around the battlefield from hot spot to hot spot wherever the fighting was most intense whoever needed support they were sent and because of this this troop, the brigade recon troops suffered the highest casualties of any company-sized unit in Ramadi. And we covered some of this and we reviewed the book, Chop That Shit Up with Dan Pinyon himself on podcast 482. But before we hit record on that, Dan had brought one of his guys down, one of his buddies and had a chance to talk briefly with Rob Black, who was Dan's combat medic in Ramadi, who, did one tour, one tour in the Army. And that one tour put him on the ground in Ramadi in that brigade recon troop.

And he got out of the Army. He's now a firefighter. He's a paramedic out here in California. And meeting Rob, I asked him if you want to come and share his experiences in the Army on a podcast. He was a young frontline medic, first tour in Iraq. and he saw intense combat on a day-to-day basis in the worst parts of the city

against the determined enemy. And thankfully, Rob agreed to come on and talk about his experiences before, during, and after his time at war, his successes, and his struggles and how he got through them. Rob, thanks for joining us, man. Appreciate it. Hello, wow, what an intro.

Good Lord. Got the day off from firefighting, huh? Oh, yeah. Right on, man. Luckily on vacation this week. that's that's that's good deal firefighting's uh kind of cool when it comes to that right i love it is it like that across the whole country i know in california it's like you work 24 hours then you get three days off then you work 24 hours then you get three they get time off yes so uh does everybody

do it that way no so there's different like schedules and shift patterns uh the department i work for we're currently on an 11 day work period it's about to go to a possibly 10 day work period and it's kind of funky so we used to do 72 hour shifts and shifts. Um, so it used to be three days on, four days off. And, uh, with our union and our collective bargaining, it's gotten cut down significantly because like the mental health issues, that's been at the four. Wait, you do 72 hours straight? Yes. So crazy, huh? Yeah. So it's kind of a schedule that was, it's been around since like the 1970s. So now with like modernization, population growth, call volume, they take into account all that data and everything. And they're like,

okay, that's like kind of way too long. So. Yeah, because you don't get to necessarily sleep, right? Yeah, depending on where you work. Like, I work primarily in the city of Marino Valley. So it's a pretty large city. I love it there. I've been there since 2014. And it was a firefighter there, paramedic there,

and now I'm an engineer there. I was fortunate enough to go back there. But yeah, three days long, it can be rough at times. Like, you really have to, like, truly depend on each other, especially when it's, like, big incident happens, just endless calls. But, like, that's what's so fun about it. It's just it's never ending.

And that's what I love about the job. Like in its totality is that you never go into work and it's the same thing. Like you could have a plan like last shift we were doing like we had to redo the stickers on the ladders. And then you go into work and then all of a sudden the tones go off. Then you're on a rolled over car on the freeway. Something like that. I love it. It's the best job in the world because it's never the same thing because I don't know what I'd do at a desk.

It's deep. Right on. So yeah. But the schedule patterns do change depending on department, what their call volume is. And it's crazy that like 65% of the nation is volunteer firefighters too. So in California, we're paid because we live in Southern California, like obviously like a geographical paradise, right? But the Great Basin causes a lot of these like horrific winds that just drive the fire season crazy. Because it causes those Santa Ana's with the wind pressure changes.

and we just get those volatile winds. We just happen to live in that area of the country where wildfires run crazy. Yeah, we do. But where else would you rather live, though? Nowhere. Because you can go to the mountains, the beach, everywhere. I love it down here.

Yeah, California's epic. Well, we'll get in some of that firefighting stuff, but let's get a little bit. I want to just get a little bit of background on you. So you grew up in California, right? Yes, sir. What was that all about? I grew up in Boyna Park.

So right next to Knott's Berry, farm. I was actually like my first job. What did you do there? I worked at Lucy's lunchbox and then I worked at Edison in Sok City like the water park during the summers and I did food service. So it was my very first job. My mom took me over there, uh, dropped me off. I did like a little interview and they're like, oh, you're hired. Were you like 16? Yeah, I was 16. So it was really fun. It was good for like the times. I met I actually still, uh, talked to a couple of guys that I worked there with, but for a 16-year-old, it was great. It was a lot of fun. And what your parents do? My mom's a bus driver. So she worked for OCTA for well over 30 years, I believe, like 33 years.

So she, like instilled in me like the work ethic. She'd get up three in the morning, go drive her route, come back, pick me up from school, always there. My dad worked for food for less as like a distribution. I believe he did like truck distribution. And he bounced when I was eight. So one day he came in and said, I'm going to go live with Uncle Dan for a little bit. I didn't understand what that meant. I have a daughter who's seven now. So now it's starting to hit me like, holy crap. Like that was kind of like the age. Like her birthday is in a couple months. And my dad came in and said, I'm going to go live with Uncle Dan for a little bit. And I said, okay, well, I'll see you later because I didn't understand what that meant as a child. And he left for a year,

didn't call, didn't write, I asked where he was on my birthday. My mom's like, I don't know, I haven't heard from him and like give all credit to my mom. Like she kind of shielded us from all of that crap that we didn't need to know. Yeah, that's legit. Fighting that battle for like myself and my sister, like, because I had no idea what was going on. I didn't understand like why my dad wasn't around. And little did I know like that caused. And we can get into it a little later on.

Like my dad leaving was like the seed that was playing. that why the trauma that I went through in Iraq was like so horrific because it like planted the seed of like abandonment. So like when my friends passed away in the military, like it just it dug up all those old feelings from when I was a child and developing and it caused a lot of problems. But when you're eight, you're just like, oh, well, was that coming back tomorrow? I was playing Game Boy and I knew my uncle Dan like just from holidays and stuff. but like we just had this like very estranged relationship like I was growing up he would they went to

it was like a vicious court battle I remember they wanted me and my sister to testify and my mom stopped it she's like absolutely not like she was great she protected us from everything like a great role model instilled the work ethic but then he would get me and my sister every two weeks um but like our just our relationship like wasn't there like I collected baseball cards and coins when I was a kid like I told you I'm a dork but like I collected like baseball cards and he was still buying me that when I was like 14 I was like dad I haven't I'm not even into this anymore it was just he went from like being my father who was always around to like this just man that I now had to go with every two weeks and it was just I know we kind of like grew apart so what were you into in in like school and why

not. So I played football at halftime. I was in the band. So I went to school in La Palma, California. I went to Kennedy High School. I was in the drum line. So yeah. So it started in fourth grade. My mom dropped me off one day. I said I wanted to play drums and just took off from there. Did you play and did you play like rock and roll as well? Oh yeah. So I had a drum set. One of my best friend Sean, he played guitar, so I'd go on like tabcrawler.com and kind of taught myself how to play guitar and bass. Was I any good? Probably. No, absolutely not. I could like fiddle around and do some power chords. Yeah. I was super, super into band. What kind of music did you like? Uh, so me and my wife just went to Warp Tour this last weekend. Oh, Jack. Nice. So that, uh, that kind of like encompasses,

like the style of music that I really like, like, Rise Against Seos and Pennywise. Um, We saw in Berlin, they were incredible. Like, it was great. State champs, like just pop punk. I think, like, a day to remember would be, like, my ideal band where I'm, like, the super hard breakdowns, like drop D guitar, like chugging breakdowns. And then super poppy choruses, like, I miss her.

I love it. That's, like, the best style. But, yeah, so I had a drum set, tried to start a couple bands in high school. It's just trying to get a bunch of 16, 17-year-olds, that I get on the same page. Did you name any of the bands? No.

Oh, okay. No. Because I had bands growing up and we would change our name like every couple months. What'd you play? I played bass, guitar, and sang. And none of those very well. In fact, for all of them pretty bad. You know, you can kind of get away with bass and probably one of the most controversial things

that I've ever done online was I said that if you can play guitar, you can play bass, right? No. Yeah, I know. people freaked out then but you let me let me let me say this if you can play guitar you can play bass i mean you can play bass you not be might not be able to play bass not like you know geyser butler or anything but you can play bass you can you can play the baseline you know it's not that hard to play a simple baseline which is what i did i played a simple baseline and sang and we always we i always joke we made more like band t-shirts, you know, because we'd always make t-shirts for our bands.

We made more band T-shirts than we made songs. You know, I think I was just really stoked about the idea of just being in a band. So the big question is, did you pluck or did you use a pick? Both. Both. Yeah. It was kind of, you know, it's, I mean, again, I just went and saw Black Sabbath final show ever. Oh.

And, you know, just watching Gieser Butler, who's always been. You know, Black Sabbath is my favorite band of all time. And watching Geezer Butler play, like, you couldn't imagine doing what he's doing with a pick. It just not happening. You know, he's just so freaking insane on the case. Be like flea. Yeah. Just hammering.

It's incredible what they do. But, yeah, we never, you know. We're going to have to hear some vocals. Yeah, just basically just picture me, you know, yelling like an idiot. That's pretty much the vocals. You know, we had, so my buddy, he had the. Because we went to the studio one time. And we laid down a,

but we made a bunch of songs. And he, my buddy, Elgin has the master, like, real to real tapes. Like the four track? I don't know how many track.

I think it might have been eight track, but it was a big real to real thing. Old school. And I was like, bro, we got to get that. We got to get the music off of it. Because there was a couple.

Oh, for sure. There's a couple bangers on their son. A couple bangers. A couple bangers. K dog, you'd be into it. There was a song that I wrote called Myself Strong, which was pretty legit.

But, so he brought him to, like, the most forensic sort of recovery place, and they're like, hey, we can't, we can't get anything off these. So it's all lost. Yeah. Which is very sad. You still remember the songs, though?

I do. I can, yeah. Yeah, between the two of us, we could probably put them back together. So it's just you and your buddy? He's jamming. Yeah, jamming. Isn't that the best, though?

It is like just hanging out and like bringing up like, hey, let's just do a couple covers. Yeah. It starts from there. And then you try and make your own. You're like, wow, this is extremely hard. Dude, I'm the opposite. Well, so I still like where I still play. Like we have my buddy's garage.

He has like a little mini studio in his garage. We call it the hole. And we still go in there and jam. Oh, that's right. And the funny thing is is we joke because we don't play hardly any covers ever. ever and we just play 33 minute freaking just crazy songs that we only play one time ever. So it's like the doors. Yeah, it's like a freaking crazy jam band.

Yeah. But that's rad. Yeah, it's cool. That's a freaking huge stress reliever too. Yeah. Music is great. Yeah. It just takes you into another place.

Do you still play drums? No. So like, I don't know. Like I just lost interest in it one time, which is weird, right? That is weird. So like I was super. I think you need to get them back, dude. I know.

I know. Those digital kits that you can put on headphones. I know. I was, I was just talking to my wife about that. You could buy like the digital ones. Do headphones make hardly any noise. Yeah.

Yeah, I know. I was super into music and then I just kind of like lost it. I don't know. So at what point did you start thinking about joining the military? So I was in high school in 2003. I graduated in June of 2003. And that's when the invasion started.

It was March of 03, correct, when the invasion started? So my uncle was a paratrooper in Vietnam. He was in the 173rd Airborne. And so I was talking to him and it just came up. He's like, well, what are you going to do? I was like, God, I don't know. Like, all my buddies are going to go to Cyprus College. Like, I think that's a good idea.

He's like, I think it's your time. Damn. And I was like, oh, shit. Like, you have a lot of problems, Uncle Jack. Like, I don't know. Like, I don't know if I want to be like you. And he's passed away now, but him and I have always had like a, we had like a very interesting relationship. Is this your, your mom's brother?

My mom's brother. So she would see, she saw him coming home from Vietnam. And when I told her that, hey, I talked to Uncle Jack, he thinks it's a good idea for me to join. And this is when like, you turn on the TV and it's like the invasion, the invaded. We are invading Iraq. Like, we've reached Baghdad. They're pulling out in Saddam's, like the, like the, what? What was it, the big statute?

Like the big, she's like, no, go to college. I will pay whatever it costs for you to not go. And then for some reason, I was like, okay, now I'm going. I was like, I need to do this, like for myself. And especially like I told some of my friends and like people in high school, I was like, hey, I'm thinking about joining and they laugh. They're like you? Like, you're going to go?

I'm like, yeah, man. Like, what does that mean? So it was kind of like, I don't know. It kind of like inspired me. to like really want to do it and I had an interest in medical I knew I wanted to do something medical I just didn't know what like I watched saving private Ryan and I really like connected with like Wade like he was the medic with the with the Rangers that went through and he was he always seemed like the calm cool collected like took care everyone like hey give us a fighting chance like I love that

scene and so when I went around to the recruiters then I went to the Navy and they said we can only promise you and I'm not sure how the Navy works but I believe it was a branch like we could offer you like medical branch but whatever is open at that time then you'd be placed there like if they needed x-ray text at the end of basic training then you'd go do x-ray or dental or whatever and then the army was like no you will be a medic I was like okay perfect um so that was like my decision point and I met it I made like a little uh on my cell phone like a little uh thing like two weeks after I graduated high school, I'm going to make a decision. I'm going to either join or I'm going to sign it for college.

And I made the decision to talk to my uncle one more time. He showed me all his medals. And then I was kind of like, this is going to sound really lame. But like my dad left. And so I looked up to my uncle and he's like showing me his medals. And he was kind of like he like impromptu father figure in a way. I guess striving for like his approval. And I was like, hey man, like, will you go with me to the recruiter, talk to the recruiter?

and he was like I'd never seen him interact with me that way and I was like holy shit like I think I'm getting this this guy's approval and I joined and then I went off to fort sill Oklahoma for basic and then went to how long how long did it take you to once you signed up how long did you wait around for it before you went so I signed up in two weeks after high school so probably early July and I left October 9th for basic training because they had like the delayed entry program was your mom completely freaking out at this point? pissed. Pissed. She's like, why are you doing it? Like, you know there's a war, right? And I'm like, yeah, but I'm probably not going to go. And what did you say you had for siblings?

One sister. Is she older or younger? Older. She's, uh, her name's Mary. So she's five years older. And what was she saying? Uh, she didn't really, whatever. Yeah, she was kind of like, just supportive. She was very supportive. And so you go out to Fort Sill, how was boot camp were you, did you regret your decision or were you into it? That was my first time on a plane. Damn. I had like that's that was my life in Orange County. Like I worked at Knott'sberry Farm. Like my biggest concern was like if the Froyo machine was broken.

Like I was like Boysenberry game. Like just it was I mean I was born on third base. I didn't hit a triple. Like I know that. You know what I mean? Like I was very, very fortunate like the life that I had in like end my upbringing. Like I know that. And.

And so that was my first time getting on a plane, ending, or geez, going to Fort Sill, and I remember it was just so flat, like, because that's where the artillery is. Like, that's home of the artillery, like, king of the battle. It's just flat, windy. And I do remember, like, the in processing, I was still like, oh, this is kind of weird. I'm not, like, sure what I'm doing. But the second day of, like, boot camp, we were, like, sitting down for the PT test and we all had our like we had these colored vests on and I

remember sitting down and you had to turn around so you couldn't watch the guy that was going and you had to put your head your head between your knees so you couldn't watch so they didn't want anyone seen and that's when I had that like thought of like what the hell am I doing like because it is like five in the morning like and we're out here doing a PT test like I was just in band like not that long ago you know like I could get college paid for and now like they're telling me I get a GI Bill so I can go to college after. Like, this is kind of crappy, man. And then and then it breaks you down so much to realize that you're like nothing and you have to work as like a team to succeed because regardless of what people say group punishment works,

if you do not fall in line with what the platoon is doing, like you, you're all going to pay for it. And it's great. And then I went to a medic school at Fort Sam Houston, Texas. That was 16 weeks. And how was that medics goal? Now that you're a paramedic when you look back how how good was your training like in the SEAL teams the medics in the SEAL teams They get freaking awesome training like it's is outstanding. I want to say is a it's over a year long That's insane and they get an incredible amount they do like they go into Like emergency rooms and work on people they get live tissue training all the time. It's crazy the amount of training they get how is your training? So the first eight weeks is National Registry EMT training.

So you're an EMT basic. So you actually, the first eight weeks is like the in processing of EMT school. So you're getting up to a national standard or training. The second eight weeks is military training, like military medicine, like how to just all the tips and tricks. You're basically just a trauma machine. So to correlate that on the outside was kind of hard because usually, and for the most part in the military, everyone's healthy. Like nobody has like seizure problems, heart problems, nothing like that. So when I went to paramedic school, the trauma aspect was easy when I was doing that portion of it.

But in paramedic, that's so like very little of like what you need to know to be a paramedic. It's very sick geriatric patients with chest pain, diabetic, seizures, all these like all the pathophysiology like that I had to learn all the cardiology, the pharmacology. Like it was all new. So I do remember meeting up with the SEAL team medics a couple of times. We just like looked at each other's aid bags. And I believe one dude was a sniper too. He's like, I'm the medic and the sniper. Yeah.

We actually believe it or not had a couple guys that were medics and snipers. Well, I remember rapping with him like during one of the briefings because we went to your guys is one of your briefings. We stood on the outside. I was still blown away that you guys were like on a first name basis because I was like, I don't even know why I'm in this room. for one, because we're doing outer cordon for you guys, like for you guys to go and do the work. Like, we're just the, we're going to hang out on the outside while you guys go take care of that. But we were all briefing in there and you guys are just calling each other by your first name.

So like calm, cool, collected and like it was just so like well orchestrated. It was like the Chick-fil-A drive-thru. You guys are just like so smooth like an operationally sound. I was like, holy crap. Like, I don't know. I was just blown away with like how smooth it went. like the briefing down to like the entire operation like hearing the seal team's on the radio there was no inflection in the voice it was calm cool collected and i remember like i believe

we talked about it before like caught falcon like there were three like i a injured yeah and the radio traffic was just like hey we have three injured yeah we're going to exfil and it's like dude these these guys are machines yeah yeah we had a good crew and i'm thinking about the snipers the sniper that you're talking about right now. It was one guy that I talked. I believe he's like an Asian guy. Yeah. So that's Johnny Kim, you know, who's.

That's like the astronaut, right? So I saw that. I saw like a news article and I'm like, dude, I'm pretty sure I met that dude. You did. Because we were, him and I were sitting, we're outside just going over like, the breakout session after the brief. And I was like, hey, what do you carry in that thing? And he was showing me like his aid bag and just rapping with him.

And he's, and I looked at his. weapon. I'm like, dude, that's a gnarly weapon. He's like, yeah, I'm a sniper too. I'm like, yeah, and I heard, like now he's a freaking astronaut. Like, and this is after he went, he's a doctor too. He went to Harvard Medical School. Come on. So, yeah, that's Johnny Kim. One upper, huh? Yeah. He's, he's an awesome guy. And actually the other, the one of the other snipers in that platoon was also a corman. It was, uh, Kevin Lace, Dauber's his nickname, but he was another medic, uh, sniper, which is definitely a weird. That's crazy. It's a little, It's a little bit rare.

You know, it doesn't happen a lot. The fact that we, first of all, we had 13 snipers in my task unit, which was a lot of, that's normally like maybe you'd have five or six maybe, but we had 13. It was, again, like when you have Corman that are snipers, two of your medics are snipers, that's just random. Yeah, just random. That's overkill. But so when you're in medic school, going, rewind in a little bit back to going to medics school, what do you, do you feel like you got pretty good? training there? Oh yeah, for sure. So you were ready to rock? You're basically like just a trauma machine. So one of like the final drills is you have to be able to treat four critical patients with

one aid bag. And it's kind of cool. Like they set up like loud speakers and I have to go in. They have like flashing lights as simulating like a battlefield. And then you have to like crawl over to like the casualties, assess them like tourniquets, bleeding control, say like what your interventions would be. And you have to treat four critically wounded. patients to pass. So I thought it was really good. The training that I got. And then I got orders to go to Friedberg, Germany. That's where Elvis was stationed. Oh, that's right. He was in the military. Ray Barracks. There you go. Freaking legit. So you show up. How's it when you show up there? I was good. I was actually put in the 501st forward support battalion because the brigade

reconnaissance does not have a medic assigned to them until they deploy. So I was out. actually in an aid station unit until we deployed. And did they tell you, hey, once we deploy, you're going to go into the aid recon trip? No. So that was kind of a funny story. We did all this training, like up until, like we knew we were going because first armored division deployed in 2003 and the initial, they came back in 2004.

So we were, we were slated to go back in 2006. So we knew we were going in January of 2006. I was in the support battalion. So all of my training was geared. towards like casualty receiving. So like being in Charlie Med? Yeah, so I was in Charlie Med. So in a way, it worked out to my benefit because I knew all the doctors, all the PAs.

I still keep in contact with some of those people. But I was in Charlie Med. And before we deployed, I did a couple operations with Dan for the training. And when BRT requested a medic, they requested me. So I got called into my CEO's office. They're like, hey, you're being reassigned. You have orders to go with BRT. And this was like right before the deployment.

So I got those orders before we went on two weeks of leave before we were going to deploy. So I got the orders did Christmas. And we were deploying like two weeks after January. So how did you get caught up on like your soldiering skills? I didn't. So that's what that's what was wild is I did a couple. Like just I was attached as the medic to brigade reconnaissance for some like training stuff. But then when I got assigned to them, I was kind of like on the outside.

I'm like, uh, what do you guys do here? Like what's a Calvary scout? Like so I was like way behind the learning curve. So I looked up like their job description, what they actually do. I'm telling you like I was like way behind. And little did I know that they'd be like they were on like the forefront of like, hey we like go into like gnarly shit. It was a huge culture shock, not only like fitting in with all those guys because I went

from being in platoons and a company like co-ed, so like with women. And then I got to BRT and I had, I remember like doing PT like one of the first times. I had dirt on my pants. And I just got lit up by the exo. He's like, I don't know who the fuck you think you are. I don't know. We don't do that shit around here. Like your stuff will be cleaning.

you'll be wired tight. I'm like, okay, this is, this fucking game time. Like, shit needs to be wired tight. So I kind of got like a little free pass because I was a medic. But, yeah, I learned, I tried to learn their job to the best of my ability. The guys were great on like training. Every time they were doing training, I'd jump in, be like, hey, like, what are you guys doing? They noticed that.

So, like, later on in the deployment, when guys were going home on leave, like they had me be a driver. And this was when we got there, we went, we landed in a telephile. And then that's where you guys kicked off deployment was in Talafar that's what a little background. So Talafar, uh, what was that? The third ACR had been up there with, um, with, uh, Colonel at the time, McMaster, H.R. McMaster. And he, they had used the counterinsurgency strategy up in Talafar and it had worked really well. And so this brigade that was up there that took their place, the 1-1 AD, when they got up there, there was not a lot going on in a good way, because what McMaster and third ACR had done had settled out the insurgency,

and that then freed up the 1-1-A-D to go to the other area that needed to be suppressed, which was Ramadi. Yeah, we were up there for, I think, approximately four months, and then we got the order to start con-we-packed-packed everything up, and we're going to Ramadi. Did you feel like you got a little more up to speed while you're up there as far as your soldiering skills. It gave me that that time that I needed to like learn who they are, what they did, how they operate. Like this is what a Calvary Scout is and this is what we need from you. Like because being the medic, you're kind of like those extra hands if need be.

But also like I wanted them to rely on me. Like I want, I didn't want to just be an observer. Like I wanted to be part of like the team. Yeah. Because I wanted to help as well. So it gave me that time to watch their training go through like what they do, what they actually do. like everything radio's mapping all of that like so it gave me that time to kind of step up and kind of learn their job in a way and dan pinion like you know he was on the podcast uh what was it a couple months ago and and you see dan pinion you know he looks like a i mean he looks like a normal guy now you know i mean he's just a normal guy like we all look like normal guys and he looks like a normal guy bro back in the day like when he was dude he was a freaking beast like he was

He was kind of like a, what do they call it? Central casting. Like he was straight out of central casting for like first platoon first sergeant or troop first sergeant. He was just a big stud, like angry looking dude. Yeah. And just a beast. And that was your, that was your leader.

Yes. Absolutely. So that's what, yeah. Very well said. I'm not even sure what to say to that. But yeah, it's. Like, that was our leader. And it was due to, due to the leader.

And like, not trying to jump forward too much, but like the guys I was with, like, Sergeant Marco, Sergeant Gonzalez, Sergeant Garcia, like, that whole leadership core, like kept us alive. Because when we got orders to go to Iraq, I got bought into that, like, hearts and minds. Like, we're going over there to, like, you know, help people. and being a medical, but like, oh, yeah, I can get to, like, help the community and do, like, community medicine. And those guys had already deployed.

Like, they've been there, done that. I believe Sergeant Marco, he was in one of the ACRs that, like, pushed up, like, guys on their second deployment. And I was kind of, like, naive to the whole thing. And I remember sitting there one night, like, we would have to pull guard duty in Biage. And that's where we were stationed. It was like, just on the outer skirts near the Syrian border. we do missions to the Syrian border to see if they were bringing arms in or anything like that. But nothing ever happened more than like a couple mortar attacks.

And I was just like dying to get in combat because you're hearing these stories of like, oh, dude, when we were in the shit and this, my medic's so good. Oh, the medic that I had before did this. The medic before like did that. And I'm like, dude, I can do that too. Like, you know what I mean? Like jealous girlfriend. Like, dude, hey guys.

Like, I'm right here. And you never. you never can totally prepare for combat. Like, because instinctually, like the first time I was ever shot, I didn't even know what happened. Because I was standing on a wall,

a cop grant, I was standing on a wall and a couple shots hit, like the cinder block and brick wall in front of me, and it shot up all the debris, and I dropped to the ground just, and this is like my brain is off. I have no clue what's going on. I dropped down.

And Sergeant Gonzalez ran over to me. He's like, where are you hit at? Because he thought I got shot because I dropped down. And I said, what's happening? He's like, we're getting fucking shot at. Are you hit? And I said, I think I'm good. And he checked me.

And he's like, fire back. I raise my rifle up. I was like, I don't see anything. He's like, just fucking fire at anything. And I just shot at a building. Like, I chose a bill. And I'm like, boom, boom. And then I was like, oh, shit.

like I just got shot at. Like my brain just could not process what was happening. How old are you at this point? I was, I just turned 21. Like I had my 21st birthday two weeks before we deployed. So like I was home on leave for like Christmas leave and then 21 years old like we got shipped out. So that was like at cop grant got shot.

I was like, dude, I have no clue. And then after that you're like kind of good. You're like, oh shit. Like that's what rounds sound like when they're being shot. at you. And like, what movie is it like the crack and the whiz? Like, yeah, the crack is like super close. The whiz means it's like near you. And you get used to like hearing it. You're like, oh, shit, that's not even close to us. That's not even near us. But like you, you, you never know how you're going to react or what you're going to do or even prepare to be shot at or even

fire back. Like it's, it's a life altering experience. When you, so when you roll down from Talafar down to Ramadi, What was it like? Was it like April or May or something like that? I believe it was May. And you know like you've been mortared a few times up there, but nothing, nothing crazy. How, at what point did you recognize like the seriousness of Ramadi versus the other battlefield I was so naive like we would do missions and do you remember those like white apartments in Ramadi?

They call them like the Chinese apartments. So I remember we would like drive by and like get a couple pop shots or anything like. that. And we were getting hit by IEDs like quite quite frequently, but they were never like hurting anyone. Like it'd be like small bits of shrapnel. And then we got orders to keep going up and down route Gremlin, which neighbored the train station and the university.

So when it got to its worst was August 4th. So that's when we were doing, I believe it was civil affairs. And I'm sure Dan will correct me, like if I'm wrong. But we were doing civil affairs on another town over. And White Platoon was heading back in and near the university and near the train station, White Platoon got hit. So in the book, it explains that like it's an S curve, right, in the road where Sergeant Story.

and Sergeant Best got hit. And it was also our interpreter who passed away as well and Mike Hayes who got thrown from the vehicle. To say that the road is an S curve, it's a little more dynamic than that because it's a road that's going from a raised like hill, and the left turn is inclusive in that S turn. So when they planted that IED,

it was a command detonated IED that ran into the train station. they were making a left-hand turn on an S-ter, so it already, like, the Humvee was already kind of tilted. And I remember we heard this, like, loud explosion because we were pretty far away. This loud explosion, I believe. Were you on base or were you in town? No, I was in town.

So white and red police, we were both doing missions out at the same time, just in different locations. But we were all, I believe, we were somewhere near the university. And then white, we heard the calls for white blotene, like, hey, we've been hit. We drive over there. I grabbed all my shit.

We're driving. You could see the column building, like, just a black column of something burning. And I'm like, what the fuck is that? Like, and like I'm saying, like, naivity, like, you don't know what you don't know. And before it was like, oh, they got hit by an IED. Like, everyone will probably be okay because that's what's happened before. Like patterns repeat themselves. You know what I mean?

So we pull up We pull outside security We get out and the vehicle was on its side I remember that I believe Doc Herod already took Hayes I believe he was gone or Or they might have still been there And they said hey story and best

Are either inside or they got thrown And I remember I walked around The outside of the vehicle and there was a hole blown in the underside of the vehicle that was larger than the turret. So that hole that was blown in the vehicle reached all four tires. And I remember looking through it, I was like, I can see through that thing. And so me and me and one other guy, like, I grabbed my aid bag, and I remember walking through a field, like near the train station because we were looking for him. And we were calling out to their names like, hey, you know, Clint.

like where are these guys and we were looking at each other and um and then someone told me like they're still in the vehicle and i was like no like there's nothing left of the vehicle what do you mean they're still in the vehicle and it's just this like this unreal like thought that that they're gone like what do you mean they're still in there like they were just here like they were just playing poker a couple nights ago like those are your boys and the interpreter was in there too. When it hit me that it was like, this is like the real deal is we would carry body bags on our vehicle.

And they told me to go get the body bags. And I was like, what the, like, what the fuck? Like I put them in there. Like, so I was the driver. So I had to inventory everything. I knew where everything was on that piece of equipment. Grab the body bag. And I think Sergeant Marsh walked.

over with an arm. It was the interpreter's arm, just an arm. He's like, open the bag. I unzipped it and he like dropped it in. And he's like, all right, take that over there or whatever. And I was like, dude, where am I? Like, what the fuck am I in right now? And that's when I was like, this is for fucking keeps.

And you don't realize like how much you can have disdain for other people because they just killed your friends. Does that make sense? I remember getting back to our tents and I just broke down crying because I was like, what did we miss? Because we drove over that road multiple times that day. And how long has it been there? It was a command detonated IED. They had to have dug it up. They've had to disturb the road in some way. They laid wire into the train station and detonated it. How did we all miss that? Like it's just the guilt that you carry with like, dude, maybe I maybe I should have saw it when I was driving because I drove by it on my left side, getting out to the village that we were in. Like it's unacceptable. And I don't know. I think about that and

being over there every single day in my life. Like it's, it's terrible. Like I, yeah. We were, you know, Speaking of Johnny Kim, he was not only a sniper, not only a medic, but he would also do lead nav in our, in the Humvees. And he'd be in like the front vehicle in the nav position. And we were going across the bridge, ECP3, I think, drove across that bridge. We're going to go driving our vehicles to cop Falcon, but we went through Tamim to get there. And we're driving slowly, you know, like really trying to be careful, looking for pressure plates. and, you know, whatever, what do they call is crush wires and stuff like that,

as opposed to looking for command debt stuff. But we're looking, you know, we're driving, and I'm in vehicle too, you know, because it's normally driving vehicle too. And so I'm just sitting there and all of a sudden, like, the vehicle stop and Johnny, like, thought he saw something and, like, guys get out with white lights to try and look around and find the, we don't think it's anything. So we drive. We continue to cop Falcon.

And then, like, an hour later, the IED guy. like find like a triple stack there so we found it stopped looked at it or like looked for it and decided it wasn't anything just drove over it like like no factor so yeah the randomness of combat is very strange and that's a good case you know you're saying you guys drove by that shit all day long and that probably you know like you said those guys take time put stuff in there and i'll leave it in there for days if not weeks if not months just waiting for the right time when they can think they can get away with it. So for the earth to have been disturbed three weeks ago, you're not going to see that anymore.

You know, it's like, and they did a good job. They would, you know, they would like put dust and sweep around it and, you know, put trash on it, whatever. Like you wouldn't be able to tell. EOD showed us one time a pressure plate that I thought was like really ingenious. Like say what you will about them, but they were pretty pretty intelligent. Like the hand saw blades, they would take two of those and just space it with cardboard. and connect the two wires to it.

So those two sawblades would never touch because of the cardboard, but you drive a Humvee tire over it. It's going to connect those two sawblades and talk about like efficient, cheap, and you could keep redoing it over and over and over. But with just two sawblades running over an IED, like, I don't know, it was just, it was wild. So we fast forward a little bit. Tell me a little bit about what the brigade recon troops, was doing. And I'll start by saying this. It was almost the exact same thing that my seals were

doing, which is going out, setting up Overwatch positions in areas where the enemy was expected to be. The enemy had been. We thought the enemy might be traversing through. There was going to be other operations that were taking place where Overwatch was needed. You know, we were, and oftentimes we work together mutually supporting each other. But what was, that kind of just talked like what a day-to-day getting spun up for an operation, briefing the operation,

going out and doing it. What was it like for you? So we would always, depending on what we were getting, a lot of times we'd get route clearance. Once a month we got to do going to buy up, like the Baghdad International Airport, to pick up the recruits for the Iraqi army or the police force.

And then we would do, we would convoy them out there and then come back. We were stoked because we got to get Burger King and Sinabon and on biop had everything man. They had that little bizarre where you could buy all the new movies and everything. Yeah. For like five bucks. Talk them down to like four.

Like man, give me three of them and I'll give you ten bucks. Sinabon. Yeah. Oh, so how good is it? And it was like cheap McDonald's like where's this going from? But we were just stoked to get out of there. But like then we started doing like the small kill team stuff.

And it was we did it before. But like I said, like nothing ever really happened. And it was a huge learning curve like for me as well. Like what do I do on these things? Because I'd always be in the back like while guys would like breach doors going in, taking over the buildings. And more than likely we were taking over two at a time. Because for a small kill team, you want two positions.

so one can watch the other one. That way it's a little bit easier. So we get the brief, let it be known, like enemy contact is either imminent, highly likely. I always worried about like moon illumination because no joke over there, like you can see everything

if the moon is bright because there's no pollution, no smog, no nothing. It's just the hum of everyone's personal generators outside. So the illumination played a big fact. and everything. The other thing that was interesting about you guys was you might be supporting any battalion that was there. You know, you guys support the Marine sometimes, which was 3-8 and then 1-6.

You guys supported the 1-35, the 137. And, you know, Colonel McFarland, he was putting you guys, you know, wherever there was friction, wherever there was things going on. He would do the same thing with us. And, you know, sometimes we would work together. Sometimes there was multiple things to support. And it's weird, you know, on August 2nd, you know, I had Colonel Dean, who was a commander of the 135 on the podcast. And, you know, on August 2nd, that's when Mark Lee was killed and Ryan Job was badly wounded.

And I had forgotten that on that day where we were conducting that operation with the 137 in downtown Baghdad, I had a whole other element of seals that were with the one three five at the university doing a big massive clearance at the university and it just you know like it was a pretty mellow operation in relatively relative to what operations could be like and definitely relative to what was happening in downtown with the one three seven but I'd forgotten like oh yeah we were there and had a whole support element had in had seal intel guys out there like doing interrogations and whatnot. And so, you know, depending on what was going on in the city, my seals were getting moved around and we were moving around to support what was happening. And then you guys were doing literally the exact same thing.

And if it was a big enough operation, they'd throw, you know, we'd both have elements out there in various overwatch positions. I might have two or three. You might have one, two or three. And we'd be mutually supporting ourselves and then mutually supporting each other. How crazy is that that like all that happened, what 19 years ago and now we're sitting here. And we're sitting here talking about it.

And we didn't even know it being in the same room together. It's wild. It's wild how things work out. And I don't know. I truly do believe that like things happen for a reason. But there really was like no rhyme or reason. It was like whatever job needed to get done, they'd call us, whether it was route clearance, support it.

I hated supporting the engineers. What were you doing? What were you doing? We'd get attached to the engineers and they would go out with like the buffaloes and just. Oh, so you'd be like the Humvees behind that. Literally looking for minds. Yeah. I know that was sketch.

Like I would rather walk through downtown Ramadi without an IBA. 100% than drive anywhere. I'll walk. I don't care. I don't want to drive this thing. Like it's terrifying because like they couldn't shoot anyway. Like they'd shoot at you and it was always like just pop shots or whatever. But driving was the most terrifying.

I always thought like route clearance like this is this is it. Like this is where we're we're going to get hit. Yeah. My first time going in Buffalo, which was the IED vehicles. I was just catching a ride from one side of Ramadi to the other, but they're still going to do their job. And it's really weird because, you know, when you're out on patrol, whether you're in a Humvee or whether you're on foot, you are actively like patrolling, right? You're checking your field of fire. You're scanning.

You're thinking you're going to get blown up. You're looking at the ground. If I was a dude, where would I be hiding? Yeah, exactly. You're going through all that stuff. And so here I am in a buffalo. and I'm literally just a passenger. You're trapped.

And by the way, they're high up. They got big ass windows. That they tilts over. Like, what are you guys doing? And it's air conditioned. So I'm sitting in this thing for the first time and I was like, it was really kind of, I felt like the way like a sightseeing person must feel when they go on like a double deck deck or bus through London and you're just looking around. That's what it felt like. Yeah.

You know? And of course, the whole time. you can still get blown up oh for sure those guys you know the heroics of those route clearance guys day after day multiple times a day yeah and they would get hit with an IED which meant the IED was now cleared and they would continue on the mission nuts it was freaking nuts so what you're talking about when you guys would when you guys would do route clearance all you're doing is getting in your hum Vs and following the freaking

fucking buffalo. Yeah, we're driving a coffin. Like, we're just waiting. Because we were just providing support for them. Like if some shit happened, we'd break off and go, go attack the element that attacked them. So that way they could finish their mission. I don't know how those dudes, like big props to the engineers

and all those guys that did route clearance every day. Like, God bless you. God bless those guys, man. And like talk about a scary job. But I don't know, I tell people that all the time. I'd rather walk naked through Ramadi than drive. Like any day. Because it was terrifying.

Yeah. Yeah, but I'm thinking for you guys, that's just one of the rotating missions that you did was, oh, by the way, you're going to go to Ralph Climson. It was never like a set. We'd get like durations of like set schedules. Like we had to go to Cop Grant for two weeks. It seemed to be like shorter durations of missions or, hey, come up here. We're going to go do a small kill team. We're going to support this element, this element. Like it was always like kind of random, which I kind of dug because it was never the same thing over and over, which kind of like maybe that's why I like firefighting because it's never the same thing over and over. And you came to my base one time for a briefing. That must have been crazy because also I was really strict with uniforms with my guys when they left my compound. But if they were in my compound, I didn't care. Like, do you want to wear flip flops and a surf shorts and a t-shirt?

Whatever. Just when you go out and you interact with the conventional forces, like you will be in a squared away uniform. Well, in a squared away uniform as a seal can put on, which is not that squared away. but you come down there and were you like damn this seems pretty laid back what was your impression?

Yeah I was shocked like I was telling you earlier like first name basis like that does not happen in the regular army like you address everyone no matter how close you are like by rank and everything

like I don't know it was just I was blown away but like just operationally but I believe like to survive you need to be that close knit because during combat it comes down to like it's not right or wrong

it's like the dude to your left and your right. Like you're not fighting, you're not fighting for any political agenda. If you're on the right side of history, you know, like, you're fighting to get home. Like, it gets to a point where you're like, dude, if I, if I don't, like, Sergeant Gazal is what I always say, like, fight like you're already dead because we are going to die here, like if you don't perform. And the worst thing, the worst action is in action, like, especially when you're taking fire if anything happens, just not being able to decide what to do.

And I learned that early on, like from the leadership and the mentorship of them. But like seeing how you guys operated, it was obviously intimidating. Like you tell anyone like, hey, we're going to go to the seal base. And of course, we're all like, you guys better have your shit like wash, clean. Like they're going to be looking at us because like we're going to be doing outer cordon security for for these guys. Like so they need to be able to rely on us. It's intimidating. And I believe our sniper, David Cantor, I believe he caught on one of the small kill teams like shot a dude that was like,

approaching your position with a couple grenades and you guys gave him a coin. Hell yeah. Yeah. It was, I don't know, gnarly. You know, you lost guys, those are the Astoria Best, August 4th. And then not even a couple weeks later, you guys had Sergeant Quick get killed. It was 19th of August. So we were with Story and Best, like we were in the city, we were already out with Quick.

we got woken up and we're told, or we were in the, we were in our tents. And we got brought in and we were told that like, uh, quick got hit, why platoons in some shit. Like, and we need to do the QRF, like quick reaction force. Like that's our dudes. Like everyone just ran out as quick as they could and got in our Humvees and just waited. And we were idle because they already ex-filled them back to the camp. And then that's when we were told, like story didn't.

make it there were a couple other guys that were wounded but what was really weird about that that operation was it it flip-flopped like red white red-white so we did that same mission the day before and sergeant quick like he and i had like a very interesting uh like relationship so when we were in Kuwait one time i left the quarters without my cover and i was with one of like uh I was with one of my buddies because you always had to travel in pairs. And he's like, hey, where's your fucking cover? And I think I was just going to take a piss or something. Like it was like super short, going to go right there and come right back.

And I told him, I was like, I forgot it. There's no excuse, Sergeant. And he's like, I fucking like that answer. And I said, it's not going to happen again. So like ever since then, like him and I had like a pretty cool relationship. We would joke around a lot. And it was funny when I was going out on the mission first and he's like, hey, Black, don't let anything happen to yourself.

I don't know what I do or I don't know what I do with myself if anything happened to you something to that extent I'm paraphrasing so when I saw him the next day and I said hey don't let anything happen

I don't know what I do with myself without you just joking and fucking that was the last words I ever said to that man so like we got word that like he passed away and I think

I was a newly promoted corporal and in the army it's kind of a lateral E4 position And if you show that you're showing signs of like leadership, they can laterally promote you. And I was like a newly promoted corporal. And I promise there's a point of this story. So after Sergeant Quick passed away, they called all NCOs to the talk.

And this was Dan. Like Dan pulled us up there. And I'm not sure if he mentioned it or anything. But he had, he called all of us into his room. And in the talk, it was like the radio room, he had his own room. And he called us all in there, shut the door. And do you remember they issued us those stupid side plates? And they were like, hey, this is like this new thing.

And I was like, dude, I already got birthing hips. Like, I can't wear side plates. I can't be whiter than I already am. And so I remember wearing the side plates. He called us in there. And under his bed, he pulled it out and threw it in the center of the room. And it was Sartner Quicks IBA. So that's the correct term for it, right?

The IBA trying to remember. And it was after he'd been hit with grenades. So like you could imagine like him placing that in the center of the room. And he said his blood is on all of your hands. He's like, what's missing? And one guy, I don't even know who it was. He's like his side plates. he's like

would he have lived with his side plates and probably not he's like but you guys need to check each other to make sure you guys are wearing your shit this is the last time I'm ever going to say it and that the image is just like burn into my brain like he just died

and you're throwing his gear on the ground and it's taken years to like try and realize like and to try and understand why he did something so like like shock value I guess but it instilled that like this is fucking life or death like you guys need to fucking check each other if you get laxadaisical on the protective equipment that we wear it will fucking kill you and it worked like man that was like so fucking brutal and horrific like I I don't know. It was just, that was tough.

Yeah. Because I remember I was, I was like brand new to this NCO thing. Like, why am I in here? And seeing that, I was like, fuck man. Like,

it's fucking brutal. Yeah. Yeah, those side sappy plates. Oh, my God. Remember, they actually brought a truckload of them

down to Cop Falcon. So we're at Cop Falcon. And they brought a truckload of them down to Cop Falcon and started handing them out to guys. Yeah, I was like, what the fuck is this? like we're already heavy enough.

Like it's already hard enough to move. It's already hard enough to get around. I remember they gave us, there was like a prototype for, it was a fan. It was like this cylindrical device that you could put on the back of your IBA. And we would blow air. It was just a fan. They would blow air up your plate. They're like, hey, you're gonna try this out.

Like, whose uncle is making money off of this thing? Like right now selling this contract to the government. And then I'd see like, like some gunner on a one third, on a one third, one one three or and dude they would have every piece of body armor that you could put on the collar thing remember the shoulder oh my god the shoulder pads the cut like the groin protect the whole nine yards so like the gunners would have to wear all that stuff like it like if you were driving um you had to and like the side plates were a bitch like trying to drive with those things especially like the radio in the way and i don't know this is a freaking pain in the out it was so much

gear and it was so freaking fucking hot as hell heavy and you're op tempo talk you know you're talking about red going out white going out who were you which one were you in what was red and then how often are you going out uh depending on the mission so sometimes we'd go out together and then if it was a mission like route clearance then we'd like switch off or if it was like a small kill team like just for instance like that small kill team but we went first white went second or however it played out it was well depending on like what the what the leader's intent was for that mission and what the operation needed and then you were always on QRF yeah if they were out then we were always on QRF standing by to go standing by to go one minute you had to be ready to go engines on ready to take orders

so always we were just in our tents all day especially if our own dudes were out like we were some guys who just hang out at the humvies like when our dudes were out and just play cards bullshit. It's, you know, when I was a kid, I never pictured a war to be like, it's, it's 50 feet away. You know what I mean? Like, it's, we're here, we're on a base, we're playing cards or we're eating chow or whatever, but in three minutes, you can be like in a complete, an utter gun fight.

A shit show. Yeah. Just getting shot where you don't even know where it's coming from. You're like, where the fuck is that? Like, where are we getting shot out from? It's just, why? because it at the and it always fire a couple shots then run so like by the time where you even could like look to see where it was coming from like oh fuck they're gone like very rarely was it like

they're gonna shoot and stay there because they know that we're gonna freaking annihilate them like their guns aren't zeroed or especially like i remember a bradley one time locked onto a window and just driving like 50 miles an hour just its barrel followed and just destroyed that window how fast it could go and how ferocious it was like it was gnarly yeah bradley's are freaking legit crazy crazy fast um so in in in the book um you know dan talks about uh david dietrich and he was kind of like a kid that was sort of struggling to to make it and he he finally gets to go out on an operation this is a december 29th he finally gets to go out and you know dan and sort of like is saying, hey, you know, fix your headgear.

I forget it was his headgear or his eye pro or something. Iro. And Dietrich, like, gives him a big hug. And it's like, hey, this is the best day of my life or something along those lines. Again, I'm paraphrasing. But, you know, the kid was totally fired up because he wanted to be a soldier. He wanted to go to combat. He had worked his ass off.

You guys had been training him and trying to get him up to speed. And finally he's up to speed. He goes out and, um, he ends up. up getting killed. It would. Now, were you the medic, you were the medic on that operation. Yes. What do you, what do you remember about it?

Just for like a little context of that, we were supposed to go home in December. Because we were, it was a 12 month order. So we got there in January. They were trying to get us home by Christmas. Like that was the rumor. Like the rumor mill was always, hey, they're trying to get us home by Christmas. Third ID should be here. So they should relieve us, if not, like first thing in January.

and I forget exactly when I want to say it was around like Thanksgiving and credit to our officers because like they they always said like we're never going to hide anything from you guys and as soon as they knew they told us they're like hey we're extended for up to three months I remember calling my mom I'm like hey and she thought I was in an aid station anyway like she had no clue what I was doing and I remember calling her I'm like hey they're keeping us here Because it was like John McCain wanted the 20,000 troop boost in 2007. So we had to stay. So this is like now we've been through all this combat. Like we've lost friends.

Guys have like literally lost body parts. Like we were just so like tattered. I believe one out of every three of us got a purple heart. Like we were just like trying to get by. And then in November it's like, hey, we're not going home. it's like shit okay so every mission after that you're like we should be fucking home by now like this is bullshit like why are we going on these missions and so and by the way you know what when i had uh general macfarlan on here i forget the exact numbers but from like the time you're extended

the one one ad lost like another 30 soldiers you know it wasn't like oh we're extended we have to stay longer it's like no we're extended we have to stay longer and we're going to continue to have to fight every single day against a determined enemy oh wait the weather cooled off. They wanted to kill us. It wasn't a hundred and fuck outside to where they like were miserable too. Like when it cools down like they want to get us like and they'll wait. They waited for us and and on December 29th, it was we went to cop firecracker to support the Marines. We pulled up into their A.O and we got this small kill team mission to where we would take over two buildings. We infilled at night as we always did infilled at night. Infilled at

night and then did our operation throughout the night, got everything set up. And I remember I was laying down and then all of a sudden I heard over the radio. Like we heard the shot so everyone's up and we're like, oh fuck. And you kind of like sit there because it was just a single shot. And it's like, okay, like when's it going to start? Like, you know, just all hell breaking loose. I'm where I sat up and I'm like, okay, like let's wait and see like how this plays out, listen to radio traffic and then go from there. I sat up and I forget who was on the red. They're like, hey, we need fucking black over here now. Like, this is bad. So the way it worked is we had two, we had the two houses, but you had to go outside of the house and turn a corner to get to the other one.

So I was in house, let's say A and Dietrich was shot in house B. Well, we would go downstairs and every time we infill at night, we'd take those, like, big-ass zip ties that they'd give us to, like, use his handcuffs if we took any prisoners or anything. We just zip-tied the door, like, completely shut. And at this time, like, we're still not hearing anything. Nothing's going on. But they were saying that, like, one of the guys has hit, and we didn't know who it was. And it's, um, so, I remember, like, cutting, like, I think it was Sergeant Gonzalez or Sergeant Beal was, like, cutting the zip ties off the door. I'm like, fucking hurry up.

Like, oh my gosh. like get those things off like we need to get to our dude and we knew it was a right and a right so we needed to get out i was in the middle so like you get in the middle like so we can watch like because you're not like you're the medic like we need to get you over there so i got in the middle sergeant gonzalez led uh we made a right made a right we're pounding on the door like hey fucking let us in and you could hear them cutting their zip ties on their door inside and it was just this like masonry building like this concrete um like a concrete building it had a stairway up and then up again so it made like a 90 degree turn when we got to

the second floor landing um the one of our guys there bag was just holding a Israeli dressing on his head and I'll never forget like the look he gave me because like just the whites of his eyes were like do what the fuck so I remember I I dropped down I took my shit off drop my bag and the first thing I said is like where do you get shot from and they said that window over there and there's a window probably 10 feet away I said get someone on the fucking window like because they're either going to throw grenades in because they already know we're in here or like at least get someone over there look like so we don't take more casualties um I dropped down um I took the Israeli bandage from bag I said I got it and I like I pulled it back and it was like if if you had to describe it was just

like a human brain, it looked like someone mixed like jello and like chicken fat. And just like the amount of heat that was leaving his body was like insane because a lot of heat leaves through your head. So like I peel it back and it's just like steaming like you just took the pot off of like boiling water. And I put the dressing bag on his head. I grabbed his hand because he was he was still shaking and i said hey dietrich if you can hear me squeeze my hand because he was still breathing and uh like he didn't give a response i said buddy if you can if you can hear me squeeze my hand please like we're going to get you out of here so place the dressing back on wrap it up he's still like losing heat um i threw a collar around his neck and um i just remember i was like

hey someone give me the litter someone threw a litter on him. Then he started to do, when you have like severe brain damage, your body starts to get in to what they call like decoderic kit and deserabate posturing. So I'd only read about it in books like from like the military training. And he started like posturing. So I was like, oh shit. Like this is bad.

We get him on the litter. And as we're carrying him down the stairs, that like aggressive turn. from upstairs like on the landing we couldn't get all of us to carry him at the same time so i was like fucking give him to me so i grabbed him and i just started carrying him down the stairs and i said let's put him back on the litter when we get outside um carry him downstairs there's just like prune matter like all over me just shit everywhere where we put him back on the litter I was like, hey, I need four guys to tell me carry him. And this is when, like, Dan was at the end of the road,

it was probably like a quarter mile away. Like, we were in the middle of freaking nowhere. I get down, he's posturing now. He's posturing in. He's like, shaky. I'm like, fuck, dude, he's fucking, like, this is horrific. I said, Dietrich. Like, you're good, dude.

Like, you're good. like we're we're already outside like we're gonna get you out of here man and fucking then like grenade started popping off and it was just the fucking machine gun fire i didn't know where the fuck it was coming from like my only concern was like him so i covered him and i'm just like blocking him because i didn't know where shit was coming from they were like hey fucking pop smoke like when i tell you like our leadership over there was fucking top-notch. Like they took care of us. Like they were the most brutal like war fighters that you could ever imagine

that could make decisions under pressure for the greater good of the platoon and us. They knew to pop smoke. They had communications with getting him out of there. And they laid down suppressing fire. like it was just so perfectly coordinated that we were able to like pick him up um pick him up we ran him out of there and got him got him off to the aid station but it was uh then we had to like run back to cop firecracker and that like we're still in the middle of fucking city it's like dude what the fuck like we know they're out here they we know they're watching us the streets are empty like you know some

shit's going to go down when all the kids leave. Like when the kids are playing outside, it's like, oh, dude, nothing's going to happen now. When all the kids leave the street, you're like, oh, fuck, like what's going to happen? Like when people start emptying the street, but Lieutenant O'Hare asked me, he's like, do you think he'll be okay? And I said, well, he's never going to be Dietrich again. And they called us, they called us into a meeting. It was in like one of the top stories, like Hop Firecracker, and they let us know that he passed away, and I was like, fuck, man. Like, I just started crying. Like, I didn't know, I didn't know what to do. Like, I felt like I failed him. Like, I, like, why, like, why didn't I save him? Like, that was my job.

Like, that was, all I was over there to do was, like, to save lives and then to compound off of that. It was story best. Like, why didn't I see that? lady like why did i say to quick like i don't know what i do with myself if something happened to you like that like what like this is fucking hell why am i here like what am i doing and you just want to like quit and give up because they just keep coming for you fucking day after day and then not but like three days later route clearance mission you're like like i am going to fucking die over here And all I was, I remember telling myself, like, thank God, like, I don't have kids. Or, like, thank God I don't have a fucking wife.

Like, my mom will be sad. But, like, dude, like, this is the fucking end. It was brutal. And nothing ever prepares you for that. Like, how do you prepare for that? So, like, watch your friends pass away. It's fucked up. Did you take leave?

whatever the the when you go home for two weeks did you do that at some point during that deployment I did I went was it I went in July so okay um we'd still we were in Ramadi and that's when we were just getting like peppered by the IEDs like every once in a while and my first day back um I want to say it was like July 24th so we were doing we were over by the university once again and this is like kind of taking it back so now we're back in July we were driving by the university and I was the tail vehicle and all of a sudden like the vehicle in front of me just blows up and I couldn't like I didn't hear anything and it was the vehicle directly in front of me just like I have never in my life experienced or seen just kinetic raw energy blow a solid Humvee just into the pieces, just obliterated it. And you know how like the Humvee window, like the windshields are flat? I'm tall. So I had to like bend over and I looked up and I'm just watching like shrapnel fly in the air.

And it hits me. I'm like, oh fuck our dudes. Like our dudes are inside. This is my first day back off the leave. So like I just did, uh, hung out with my grandma, my uncle. My uncle's asking for stories. Hey man, what kind of shit you're getting in over there? Like fuck yeah.

Like he's all into it. And Sergeant Marco told me, he's like, you stay right fucking there. Do not get out because they were planning the secondary IDs. So we thought it was like the primary waiting for the secondary. There were four people in that vehicle at that time. So Sergeant Gonzalez, he gets out of the vehicle. He's on fire. Like he's jumping on the ground, like rolling around.

There was another guy. His name was Robertson or Robinson. He was a replacement. And another dude, he was in. the back seat, he got out and he was like trying to kick himself away from the Humvee because now it's cooking off. No movement from the driver door and the gunner was thrown. So Sergeant Marco gets out and we're still like right by the university. So I'm like, holy shit, like we're in a horrible spot. Like they can see us from everywhere. And my gunner,

Neen, I was like, dude, I'm getting out. Like, I'm going. And Neenon's like, if you get out, I'll shoot you. And so I'm just sitting there holding my aid bag, like just ready to go. And it felt like eternity. I'm like, dude, just like, let me go. Finally, he turns around. He's like, come up. And Strickland wasn't getting out of the vehicle.

So we, like, we opened or I opened the door. It's just like shit's popping off. It's on fire. Strickland would always drive with his arm up on the radio. So I opened the door. He's kind of like hunched over. And I remember I just grabbed him like by the handle on his back, pulled him out like he was weightless. Like just so much fucking adrenaline that I had.

And I was pulling him off like out of the Humvee and I looked down. I'll never forget. Like I was dragging him and I looked down and his arm is hanging on by like just the skin. Like, and I was dragging it in the dirt. So I had to like pick him up onto my chest. And like I said, like weightless. Picked it up. Patched him up. Robertson, his foot was like blown open, had a gnarly head wound. Patched him up, went over to Gonzalez. I'm like, where are you fucking hit? He's like, my legs, my legs, my legs, he kept saying his legs. And I couldn't find anything. Um, and we got everyone out of there in like 13 minutes.

Like it was super super fast. But that was like my introduction back from leave. And that was and like Wirt was thrown the gunner. I believe he broke his pelvis or his legs. Like he was just thrown super far. But those were like, um, I don't know. That was, it was gnarly. Yeah.

The reason I ask is we, well, first of all, in the seal team, and in the Marine Corps, we do shorter deployments than you guys. We do like six or seven month deployments. You guys are doing freaking 12, 14, 15, 16 month deployments. And so you guys get leave in the middle of it, which I honestly don't know, like, that seems like it'd be really psychologically hard to do.

Go home and just be everything normal for two weeks. And then especially like you're going to go back and you know what you're getting into, that seems that could be really hard to do. There were stories of guys that just didn't come back. They're like, yeah, like they left there. Because you'd go to Kuwait and like check in all your stuff and fly home. They just never would come back.

Just stories. I never personally witnessed it, but I could see how that would happen. But I don't know for me it would be the guilt. Like I wouldn't want, like I wouldn't want another medic unless it was like Doc Herod there with my guys because I was like if anyone's working on them it's going to be me and that's what that's what I took at least like some pride in like if my guys are going like I'm going too and I hope I did a good job

and good by them um looking back you can always like pick apart everything like maybe if I would have done this maybe if I would have done that but you just you end up in this cycle of like self-loathing that is not good it's not healthy and it just it's toxic and it's like I just became a fucking miserable person. Like just, because like survival's guilt, survivor's guilt for one is, was like a huge thing.

Like, fuck, I wish I would have died because some of those guys had wives and kids. I'm like, then part of you is like, I wish I would have died. And you're like, huh,

fuck, I could probably, I could probably do that now. I could probably still kill myself. And it's, I know it's like taboo to like talk about it, but it's the reality of everything. Because the brain is a very,

very scary device and the way that it's wired that if you tell yourself something enough times like you'll actually start to think it's true and over time I wouldn't talk about things that were actually like going on in my head and like thoughts that I would have and it just compounded on top of itself on top of like my job like horrific shit that I'd see at work that would bring up like old memories like this still to this day the smell of a burning vehicle I have to like take a second, be like, okay, I'm not there. Like, I'm not in Iraq because that smell was the first time, like in Iraq was the first time I smelled the burning vehicle and my brain associates that with my dead friends. So luckily, like over time, I've told myself like, all right, if I smell it,

like, it's not, I'm not there, I'm safe, I'm fine. But it can just be a roller coaster of like pain and anguish. And I became a pretty, terrible person to like not only like myself but to be around but I just wouldn't talk about it and I wish I wish back then like looking back hindsight's always 20 20 I wish I would have like gotten the help that I need I wish I would have been honest because I was going to the therapist but I was never like 100% transparent like I would never go to I wouldn't show up to the therapist and be like hey I watch videos online of Humvees getting blown up and wishing that I was in the Humvee like because I was scared of them saying, like,

you need to get locked up in treatment. And then I would never tell them, like, hey, I, I fascinate with, like, killing myself. It was always like, I'm good. And they would say, like, how are you doing? Like, no, I'm good. Doing good. The antidepressants are working.

Like, they fucking weren't. They were not working. Like, they were making it worse. And it got to the point, like, I would just go years. with just saying I was okay, I'm okay, I'm okay, I fucking wasn't okay. Like I wish, I wish I would have like reached out to my friends and been like, hey man, like, are you going through this too?

Like I'm like super infatuated with like ending my life. And I would never tell anyone that, but I also like got off on it because it was my secret. Like I just held on to it like it was a sense of power. But in reality, I was just, I was losing it like every day. And like through therapy, they explained. that your neurons can get like rewired. And when you go through something like so traumatic, like what happened in Iraq,

it's not necessarily the events that happened in Iraq. It's when your brain was developing, the seed was planted. So when I lost my friends there, your brain associates that with like possibly my dad leaving. So I went to therapy. I ended up having to go to 30 days in Utah. lot.

And you're now in the mindset of like accepting that you're going to die. Oh, yeah. I thought I thought I was dying over there for sure. And then so how is, you know, you're powering through, you're going in the field every day or every other day at a minimum. You're on QRF. You're sitting in overwatch positions. You're doing route clearance. And every time you go out, it's like the gut-wrenching, like, the gut-wrenching, like,

like oh yeah this you know probably coming today you hit a point where you're so numb you're like fuck it like it's not like if i'm gonna die it's how like and i hope it's glorious like you get it's twisted and then you look at you don't even look at as horrible as it sounds like the population there you don't even look at as like humans you look at them it's like a threat it it's terrible like the way that you would like view another human being like it was totally different like the just the the the parallels that happen like from getting there being like yeah hearts and minds like I'm a medic I can actually help people community medicine to like I need to like either kill everyone just to make it pack home or I need to find a way out of here like just the two extreme parallels that I never thought I'd get into like my brain

wasn't I don't think equipped to like deal with that I just I didn't realize what I was getting myself into yeah you know I was having a conversation with a Marine that was in Ramadi with us and and he had hard time coming home. And I was like, bro, it's not normal. It's not normal for a person to like risk their life every single day and watch their friends and their troops and people that rely on and people that they're responsible for to die. Yeah.

Repeatedly. Like that's not, hey, I get it. You know, everyone experiences death. You know, if you're a hunter, you go out, you kill, you know, you go out, you kill an elk. You kill a deer. If you're a farmer, you know, or a rancher, you kill a. cattle if you're a normal person you know your parents get old and they die you know occasionally someone you know gets sick in a terrible situation and they die but like to just be surrounded like when i was a kid i had i had a friend that died i think he had some kind of a heart

problem this was maybe in fourth or fifth grade and you know it was like shocking but that was one kid and you're a little kid and i don't even think you're really old enough to process it yet but when you're in combat in Ramadi and it's like oh oh another person just died today oh let's go to another memorial service oh another oh now it's one of my friends out oh it's another memorial service every other over and over and over and over again that shit's not normal and so for people to for people to get tripped up and be like oh well number one i'm going to die and if i don't die then there's something wrong with me because i should be dying and there's no way i'm going to make it home anyways And by the way, these people that are trying to kill us, fuck all them.

Hate them. Yep, hate them. And, you know, people talk about like, oh, you know, like the Vietnam vets will go back to Vietnam. And people are like, oh, Jonk, do you ever want to go back to Iraq? And I'm like, no, no. Well, what about when you're older? I am older. I don't want to go back.

Like, it's not happening. I don't want to go there. I want to see it. No. So as you're, what happened mentally, like, as you started getting short as all of a sudden And it's like, oh, you think you might actually be going home. To insult to injury, I was stop lost twice. Because my ETS date was in October, because I signed up October of 2003.

I signed a three-year contract. So I was supposed to go home October of 06. Like, that was my ETS date. Our deployment started in January. So I stopped lost until the duration of like the end of the deployment and the night out process. We got extended. I got stop lost again. They're like, hey, you're extended out another time.

I'm like, God, like, I'm going to get caught up, man. Like, this is terrible. And so I was at the point like, man, I just need to get the fuck out of here. Like, I just need to get home. Like, I didn't have a plan. I had no clue what I was going to do. I just needed to get the fuck out of Ramadi. Like, that was my plan.

And finally it came down. Like, we got the orders. Like, we're packing up all our shit. We're giving all the Humvees to the Iraqi army. So like and kind of and you get like insulted. You're like fuck dude, I worked on that thing for a fucking year. Like that's my baby. Like that thing kept me alive for a year.

And now we're just going to hand it off and they're going to shit all over it. Yeah, they ain't going to run for two more. Yeah, with all the with all the gear in it and everything. So we turn it in. And then I remember like starting to pack up the connexes to go home to get through customs. And I'm like, at what point did you stop running operations and how much more time did you have the pack? I believe we stopped running operations

and I'm sure Dan could answer it. Like we got home on Valentine's Day in 06. So I want to say like mid-February. So we probably stopped running operations about two weeks before that, two to three weeks before that. So at that point you kind of knew, you kind of like thought you made it.

It was the anticipation. It was like, hey, it looks like we might be going home. Then we started to see like the rumor mill is terrible. We started to see like the third ID, ConEx is showing up. So we're like,

oh fuck like it's happening like we're gonna get the fuck out of here and then we had our last mission they said that was it start packing up your shit and I was so fucking I was like I cannot wait to get the fuck out of the army this is not for me like this is like and maybe if I didn't deploy my wife has asked me like do you think you would have stayed in the military and I told her if it wasn't for combat maybe because it was such it was a cool career like you you're told what to do when to do, how to do it. Like, everything is very structured. You know, like, what's going on.

But I didn't realize, like, the combat just, like, I can't do this again. And I, and just so you know, that was not a normal tour, like, at all. Yeah. Realizing that now, I'm like, holy shit. Like, that was, man, that was fucking brutal. Like, the just brutality of man, like, just, I don't know. Like, it's hard to not think about it and, like, associate it. It's a weird, it's a weird dynamic for the SEAL teams.

So when we were wrapping up deployment and we're turning over with guys from SEAL Team 5 and I guess one different, very different dynamic, I suppose there's going to be some people in the army that you would know the people that are coming to replace you. You might know a few of them. But, but like in the SEAL teams, we know these guys. Like they're like our friends. And it was, you know, when I had Elliott and Joe. who were, you know, we were talking about warfare. The movie, those are the two guys are wounded on that operation. But just knowing these guys and knowing that what they're getting into,

and there's no way you can convey it to them. Like, I literally told them, I was the task unit commander. I literally told them, I'm like, you guys are going to take casualties. And, you know, just talking to them, they're like, yeah, we were like, okay, you know, kind of almost didn't believe me. And I can see that. You know, and you're like, you got it like everything you can do. Like pay attention to everything.

Believe me. Like, and so when you're leaving these guys, it's like the most horrible feeling because it's almost like you know and you know that they don't quite know yet. And it's like it just feels terrible. It'd be like, you know, if you're watching something bad happen and your kids are there and you're like, all right, I'm just going to leave now. and there's nothing you can do to help them. Yeah.

And that's what it felt like, like we didn't want to leave. And then you also know, like, well, you can't stay. It ain't happening. And it was a horrible feeling leaving those guys. Because you can only express it so much like, hey, because there was like that, that phase, the transition phase where like, hey, this is, this is what we did. This is what worked for us. Pay attention to this, radio frequencies, that.

Like, you're trying to pass along information, but there's no. there's no way to prepare you for what what was outside of those fucking wires in Ramadi god um so you get on the bird and you're heading home how's that i went from being sergeant black in ramadi iraq in february to rob black out of the military in april so it was about a six week transition because we got we got back out processed and then I was back home with my mom like it was it was just like culture shock like there wasn't really a huge like transition period and I remember just everything pissed me off did you have a plan no but not really I knew that I wanted to go to school and I knew that I wanted to do something and I had that EMT card from going to medics

school. I was like, shit, I'll get a job on an ambulance. So I got hired at Care Ambulance, which was an ambulance service out in Orange in L.A. County. And I worked there for several years. And I worked with some guy, he's like, hey, man, like, why don't you go to paramedic school? I was like, shit, that's actually a pretty good idea. And then in paramedic school, guys are like, hey, man, like, why don't you try the fire service? Oh, that kind of sounds kind of cool. And it just kind of happened. Like, I was never that kid that, like, grew up, like, playing with fire trucks or anything. It just, and it ended up being like that, but my background was always like medical. So I got like into the dorky stuff, like the paramedic stuff, which I still love to this day.

I helped teach at the community college when I can on days off. Like it's a lot of fun. But it was a rough transition because I felt I always walked around with like a chip on my shoulder. Like everyone owed me something or like people should respect. me. And I just remember someone told me one time, like, nobody owes you fucking anything. And it's true. Like, say what you want. Like, the world does not owe you shit. And I don't care who you are, what you've been through. Like, the world does not owe you anything. And nobody is going to tip to around you. And that was a hard life lesson for me to learn because

I was like, yeah, I've been through combat. Like, I've been in the shit. Now that it's over, I can be like Billy Badass. You know what I mean? Like, talk about it in the past tense when like several months ago, I was like, God. just want to get out of your alive like you know what I mean like it's it's just it's wild like and it even seems like a fairy tale sometimes like talking about it just like how how everything like transpired and how everything like worked out it's just it's kind of hard to believe sometimes because even like when guys like I'll work with some guys I'm like you were in the army yeah it was like you're fucking weird I'm like yeah I know man yeah and again it's not like you were just

in the army. I mean, you were a freaking, you know, you awarded the combat medical badge. Like, that means you were working on people in the shit under fire. That's what that means. And so what's like, you know, you're talking about these feelings that you're having when you get home.

You know, it's what we call PTSD, right? This is what we call it. You're working as a medic. What does your life look like and what does PTSD do into your PTSD, do into your brain while you're, how old are you now? You're 24 years old? Working as an EMT? You're 25 years old. Working as an EMT.

I was 22 because I was 21 during the deployment. I literally got out of the military in April and I got hired by Karen June. So within a matter of like five months, I went from, like I said, Sergeant Black to Rob Black driving an ambulance around L.A. and Orange County. And you're rolling up on car accidents, rolling up on morbidly open. beast people that are freaking covered in their own shit. Oh, every day. Just like, yeah.

Haneous shit. Those are my favorite. I'm just kidding. The same people that call over and over and over again. Yeah, the EMS system is, it's wild. And little did I know that that was compounding what it, what had already happened to me. Because like, like I said, you're just reliving it in a different aspect. Over and over again.

Over and over and over again. And like I said, I wish I would have gotten help because it can't. to a breaking point, like eventually, like after I met my wife, I was drinking a lot. There'd be times where I would drink like every day constantly. And then there'd be times where I just wouldn't drink. And my mind would just like go crazy. But what does your mind going crazy? What does that describe that to me?

Trying to process like all this information. Like I had so many thoughts going on that I could never get anything organized. Like I would always get like hyper fixated on one thing. I'd get distracted and be like, okay, I need to do this. And I used alcohol to kind of like calm myself down because that was all I knew. And you don't know what you don't know. And I was like, oh, a beer will just help me like, you know, calm down. And then I'd get excessive with it.

And just like most veterans, you struggle with like some substance abuse stuff and I'd abuse it and just drink a lot until I'd black out because that was the only thing that would help me sleep at night. Like I would wake up, I would wake up during the day and I would beg for nighttime. I'd be like, man, I just can't wait to take my Benadryl so I can fucking just not be awake anymore. Because I hated myself. Like, I just did not. I would wake up, look at myself in the mirror and be like, I fucking hate you. Like, who are you? Like, it was just miserable because I just could not, I could not like organize my thought.

I was just all over the place. I was miserable. I was toxic to other people. Like I would talk down to other people. I thought that I was better than other people. Like just things that were so unhealthy when I was the problem. It's like this is a me problem, not an anyone else problem. And it wasn't until like I ended up meeting my wife.

Tail is old as time we met on Tinder. It's a true romance. Is Tinder like the pure hookup one? You care, you've got to tell me. Yeah, that's like pure, like you're just going there kind of hook up. That then, though, it maybe it was kind of the only game in town for a little while. And then you had all these other little services crop up. And then Tinder became kind of the hookup one.

Yeah, I talked to the young guys at work. There's all kinds of shit out there now. It's like fish in a barrel, man. Like all the young firemen, they're like, audience. You live vicariously through them. It's wild. I couldn't even imagine, like, the dating scene nowadays. but we met she's a horse girl so if you ever love the rough touch of a woman like date a horse girl

she's actually trailering down she's competing in uh in delmar this week so she's trailing equestrian yeah so she does like hunter jumper like so she jumps the fence she's actually like super talent she qualified for freaking nationals damn in Las Vegas she's a stud man like if you saw how did you manage to freaking pull that off dude you're drinking and freaking being depressed and acting crazy. I know. Like what a disaster. She likes fix me ups.

So that's a, yeah. She's got a seizure of a soft heart. She loves hot messes. So and to top of her, she's a freaking lawyer too. She's an attorney. Like full blown doctorate attorney. Like if you, I know I'm fighting out of my weight class.

Like you'll see a picture of me and her and you'd be like, what is she doing with him? Like, what's wrong with her? So when you meet her, How old are you when you meet her? I was 10 years ago. So I was 30. So I'm 40 now. I aged like milk.

So you're 30 years old. Yeah. I look terrible. So you're 30 years old. And when you meet her, you're still drinking. You're still feeling like. Yeah, but she was drinking too. Like we were a fireman and an attorney living in an apartment together with nothing to do.

And we're just partying. Like, hey, where's the next party at? Like going to San Pedro, hitting. like the fish market, it's just drinking all day. And then she calls me, it's actually a funny story, she sends me a text message of a positive pregnancy test. And I was driving on the eight freeway to get my physical for work. And I wrote back, and if, if you know, like, our dynamic of like our relationship, like she jokes a lot too. Like she would fit in very well with like police, fire, military, like that kind of like culture. And I wrote back, ha, ha, fuck you. And,

then like I didn't hear anything and I'm on my way of the physical and she calls me she's like this is not a fucking joke I'm pregnant this is not a drill I'm like and I was like there's there's no way like what are you talking about you're pregnant and I had to pull over and I puked on the side of the road I went to my physical my blood pressure was like 190 over or something like and the the poor girl like in taking me like checking me and she's are you okay like you do not like look okay I said I know this is weird I just found out that my girlfriend is pregnant and I don't know what I'm doing with my life like wild so that that was like the start of our our relationship and we have been together ever since when did you get married we got married in when she was pregnant when she got pregnant and then

and then at what point so you're a firefighter now you're married it's I think uh or you know whatever you're married you got a kid on the the way, it seems like you're going in a pretty good, like from the outside, you're a firefighter, she's a lawyer, she's an equestrian master, you got a kid on the way, you're now married, like you're kind of, like, if you paint that picture for a human being in Southern California, you're set for life. Like you're, you're in the top, you know, 1% of life winners, right? You would think, right?

That's what it looks like from the outside, but what's going on in the day. the inside. And that's what, that's where like the whole factor of like just struggling with like the PTSD kicks in. And it was the weirdest thing. Like, um, we get married. We have our daughter. I'm not drinking as much. Like, I'll have some drinks like when the baby goes to bed, whatever. But then like the dark thoughts start creeping in. Like I'm like, fuck man. Like, why do I deserve this life? It's all about framing, right? So like what you're talking about like, damn you have like the perfect life on paper i'm like yeah but why do i deserve this isn't that terrible like isn't that a terrible like view to have of the world like why am i here now and we made the

decision we're like well i mean you know she needs a she needs someone to play with so we had another kid we had um as a second daughter so it all came to a head like and it was never anything that was like lying in the sand like you're fucking up like you're you're you're doing this. It was all tiny little things like, hey, we don't do that anymore. Because I'd leave for my shift. I'd come home and it would always be like, oh no, like she doesn't eat that anymore. Okay, well, it's been three days. Like I'm trying to catch up. I was always trying to play ketchup. Like I was, like I was this part-time dad that was just filling in for a couple of days just to leave again. And she was at home working full time as an attorney, taking care of two kids. Like, she's just

eating it in the face. Like just she's doing everything. Like, rock star. and then I come in and just screw everything up. But it's all up here in my head that I'm screwing it up. When in all actuality, I was just, I was present and I was there. But I would get in my own head and be like, man, I'm such a failure. Like I don't deserve this life like, like you said on paper. Like I have a wife, a house, a family. Like we got the dogs.

We got the horses. Like everything is great. But inside, I just, I lost it. And so, It came down to like one day. Like I would get like super infatuated with like killing myself. Like just to be. And you guys had.

There's. I remember Dan talked about this. He's got in his book. But Diaz and Rogers had two guys that were in that troop with you guys in Ramadi. Yes. And they both killed themselves. Yes. Diaz was in 2018 and Rogers was in 2021.

Did you hear about Diaz at this? time and when it happened yeah and did that like seem like oh there you go like this this is this is a possible and that's what i'm saying is like you're you're a product of your environment and like you surround yourself with it like you hear you hear the things like oh 22 a day like guys are killing themselves all the time and you feel like that's like your only like recourse or your only answer and like the self-loathing builds up you get in your own head um i was going to therapy but not being honest i'm on these antidepressants that are making me feel like not only tired of all the time but they're making me have like these lucid dreams that are like can these therapists just

sorry for a can these therapists like do do they not are they not able to be like ask a couple questions where you get trapped some way where you kind of have to admit to it yeah I wish no because like you're just like because I was today oh I'm fine yeah because I was not fucking fine and I wasn't honest and feel free to interrupt me it's like it's literally it's literally really your show. Like that's what it says. You know what I mean? Um, but it, it was the strangest thing. Like, we went to the Orange County Fair in 2019 and it was around this time, like July of 2019. And all I did was like, I pulled one of the girls out of the car seat and I put her in the wrong side like, because they have like their designated sides. And I'm like,

oh, crap, I did that wrong. And then all day, I just got in my own head like, shit, man, like I can't do anything right. Like why can I not do anything right? And we had like the picture perfect day at the OC fair. Like just had a great time, good family day stuff, pictures from it. Like it was incredible.

And then all of a sudden like something in my brain fucking switched. And and I know that like my daughters will hear this one day, but like I remember looking at them at the rearview mirror. And I said the answer is like everyone would be so much happier if I was gone. Like, because then there wouldn't be these problems of me, like, choosing the wrong seed or, like, you know, I got him like the wrong bottle or I got him the wrong food. All these things that just seems so, like, minuscule, like, in the totality, that is life. But, like, in my own head, I was, like, totally screwing everything up. I still remember looking at them, like, in the car seats because we have, like, the backwards facing mirrors and, like, looking at them and be like, damn, they're going to be so happy when I'm gone.

And then I got this, like, this period of, like, a late. because I finally had the answer. I was like, oh, I'm going to fucking kill myself. And I was, even my wife was like, God, you've been in such a good mood lately. Like, you're so, like, delightful to be around. And I'm like, yeah, because you don't know what's coming. Like, I'm going to fucking off myself. And my wife knows everything.

I've been very, very open about everything. And anyone's listening to this. And like, you're having these thoughts too. Like, reach out, please. Because I promise you it gets better. Like, it is your own brain. And it's not that there's something wrong with you. It's just your brain trying to understand what happened and make sense of what you're going through and how to get past it.

It's just simply an understanding thing. And you can be taught and walk through delicately through clinician work and be guided through this. And there is hope and you do matter. And do not, please do not kill yourself. So what made you? okay did you come up with a plan were you like okay tomorrow night yeah so I was whatever I had a I have a 1911

in my room and like we would get the girls down for bed like my wife would be in bed she'd go to bed early because she would always have to wake up super early for work she's like you wakes up at like four o'clock in the morning and just hits it and like there would be nights where I'd like go in there and I would like check the closet and I'd just like hold hold the pistol

and she'd be like asleep in the bed and just feeling the weight of it was like empowering and then I'd like hold the clip in another hand. I'm like, yeah, I'm about to fucking rock this through my brain. Like, it was, it was dark. But then when you're when you're in that state, it sounded like a good idea. Like it sounded like, hey, do you want to come on the Jocko podcast? Like, hey, yeah, that sounds cool and healthy.

Like, it made sense to me. Like, my brain was wired. Like, this is the answer and this is going to fix everything. And this is how I'm going to get out of this situation. like it sounded like you and me talking right now like it sounded like totally normal and healthy like it is terrifying like one thing about the human brain is it can get rewired and just become a nightmare and then i would get on my phone and watch videos of like uh dude's getting blown up in iraq again i was taking myself back there like watching those old sniper videos of like the

musha adeen like all like all the stuff that i'm sure you've seen like from the other side like and just got like like I said like infatuated with it and it was terrifying so it finally came to a head um and I ended up needing treatment how did you like what was the the the turning point where you said you know what instead of me freaking killing myself I'm gonna who'd you talk to did you talk to your wife or what'd you do no it's I took uh I took a bunch of gabapentin I took a bunch of Zoloft What's gabapentin? It's used for several different things. My doctor prescribed it for like anxiety.

So I took a bunch of it to like numb myself. I drank a ton of vodka and I was going to I was going to do it then. But I got so like so jacked up. I couldn't go through with it. And then you. So I ended up getting transported to the hospital. And then in there that's when my wife said like you, you need help.

So thankfully you got too freaking, you got, you blacked out, you passed out, and then your wife, you need to go to the hospital, she takes your hospital, and she's like, yo, you need some freaking help. Oh, I went in an ambulance. Like, oh shit.

It was like the real deal. So, so what is the process now? So what happened after that? So I think you say you went to Utah for treatment? Yeah, so I ended up going to Utah for her. Why Utah? Like you're in California.

why is there some special program out there or something? Yeah, so it's a place called Deer Hollow. So I will say one thing, like the fire service in a hole is kind of made like the whole mental health thing like kind of not taboo anymore. And like we're openly talking about it. And my department specifically like it kudos to them. And I'm not trying to like blow rainbows up their skirt or anything. But like the notifications were made that like I had this incident.

and they said, okay, send him to wherever he needs to get help and we'll deal with everything later. Like they put me off on leave. The proper notifications were made. And I got connected to this place in Utah that could help me. Is there something specific about that place? They helped veterans. Yeah, they helped veterans fire EMS. Like I got up there and they had like patches from all over the country.

like with police, fire, EMS, like, it just helps a bunch of, like, that community. And I got there, I'm like, what am I doing here? Like, I'm going to lose my family. I remember getting on the plane, like, what have I done? I've just screwed up my life.

Like, how am I ever going to be able to, like, face my wife again, face my kids again? Like, lots of shame. And shame is just, like, something that's extremely toxic. It's out there in the ether. Like, it was very, very, like, embarrassing. Did your wife know about like the suicidal thoughts or did she just think you were just now

call it you were being an idiot? Yeah. She just thought I had a fucking problem. And so now when you get up there, you check into this place like what, you know, this process and I think you said it was education and rewiring of the brain, but like how do they do that? What does that sound like? What are they talking about? What does your day sound look like?

So initially it was you'd wake up, do breakfast and you're all living together. And everyone has like different stories. So you'd wake up, you'd do your counseling sessions, your therapy sessions. And it was, have you heard a EMDR? Is that the flashing red lights or is it the magnets? I believe what it's a, I forget exactly what it stands for, but it's like a kind of like hypnotizing therapy where they wave your fingers in front of your face. And it's for like rapid eye movement. And it's supposed to like help you recall like events.

And so up there, I guess it was neither. I said flashing red lights are. magnets. I've had a bunch of friends go to all different kinds of treatments. So I thought EMDR was one of yeah. And it and it sounds like a bunch of like my wife calls it hocus pocus. She she she's like if it works for you, that's great. But like that's like not for me. But they dug up a lot of stuff like from my childhood that affected me that that was like the problem. So like the Iraq stuff was just like insult to injury. It was like re-breaking an arm. So it was like you need help from like, you. You need help from like, your childhood memory.

So then it went from like, like Iraq was like not even what they were focused on whatsoever. But living in the community, they're watching everything about you and how you operate. And they were like, yeah, your childhood was screwed up. Like you have serious abandonment issues. And like that's why you joke so much.

That's why you try and make everyone laugh because you're scared that everyone's gonna leave you. I'm like, oh my God. Like it's crazy what they did in that environment. but you're constantly around counselors for 24-7, 365, one-on-one counseling, talking to other members there, but it also gives you the time to, like, decompress

and be like, what am I doing? They invited my wife up there. So she had my mother-in-law and father-in-law watch the kids. She flew up to Utah, and I didn't know that they were planning this. I was like, yeah, me and my wife were fighting. Like, obviously, we would. went up there and we did like a skit and it was like okay like let's pretend like you two are in like a lover's quarrel and like it started with a skit and it ended up with like uh me telling i forget like

how it transpired and she's like well what the hell like why can't you just deal with your problems i said what the fuck do you want me to say do you want me to tell you that like for the past several years i've wanted to blow my fucking brains out like is that what you want for me like and it turned in like this scenario to her like leaving and crying and we sat outside on like the lawn. I'm like, look, I'm fucking, I am so fucking sorry that I'm like this. Like you don't deserve this. Like you as a person do not deserve this. Like you don't deserve to be put through this. Like we have children together. You deserve to be happy and I'm not pulling my weight as a partner. Like I feel terrible because I'm just, I'm not pulling my weight for you. And she, I don't,

don't know why she stuck through it with me but she did say she's like if you continue your shit like if you don't get help and you're not honest with therapists like you will like we're going to be gone like i'm not going to have you around our kids because i was it was just so fucking bad but like that that 30 days up in utah kind of like helped me decompress constantly being around the therapist that's when like the cat was out of the bag i'm like okay i'm fucking suicidal like they're like Okay, well, like what makes you think about that? So like what you were speaking about earlier, like, why don't therapists like trap you? Well, now the secret was out.

Like this guy gets on these like ragers where he just drinks until he's so numb that he doesn't think about his problems. And then he wants to kill himself. So they already knew the path I was going down. So like my guard was down. Like they already knew how to attack me. And they just broke it down like piece by piece by piece over. the 30 days. And my wife came up.

It was horrible. Like just watching her go through that, like, and knowing that she stuck with me. Like, I could never, I could never repay her for that. Like, being the mother of my kids and then going through that bullshit and, like, just me being a mess, why?

Just because I have, like, fucking daddy issues from when I was, was a kid, they got like perpetuated by like shit that happened in Iraq and then I was feeling all sorry for myself and like none of the shit that happened to me if I would have been an adult about it and actually took it head on and said, I have these problems. This is a me problem and I need to fix it. I would have never gotten to this point. But I also think if I never got to this point, I wouldn't have the life that I have. Like now we had our son. Our marriage is great. she's riding horses like I do not drink anymore I take my medicine as prescribed I'm honest

with my my doctors be like hey yeah I'm having some fucking down days like okay well like now it it's kind of funny because like now they're like well are you thinking about you know and I'm like no I'm not like they're like they're trying to diffuse a bomb like we were we went to go see that warfare movie my wife is like are you sure yeah I'm ready because I can handle things I just handle everything up front now. Yeah, a long time ago, I had it from my friend Peter Attie on the podcast, and he was an ER doctor in Baltimore, in like when Baltimore was just like the worst area.

And one thing that he said was that when families would like have someone get shot, right? If the family, if the family was like a little bit of a solid family, losing someone from their family would make them tighter. But if the family had little fractures in it, then having someone in the family get killed would make the family explode. And I thought that was a very close correlation to like kind of what you're saying,

which is people that you're in the military, you're going through something, or you're a firefighter, you're a police officer, or you're just going through life, and you have something in your past that's like a little crack, right? Like a little crack you had with your dad leaving And you don't know what the hell's going on.

You're eight years old. You have a little crack. And when you get put into the fire of combat, it's like all of a sudden that crack just opens up, right? And gets worse. And then it sounds like you not like just trying to pretend that the crack's not there and just act like it's not there and just kind of turn to your head to it. It just gets worse and worse and worse.

As opposed to going, oh, there's a freaking crack here. Yeah. I see it. It's getting worse. I need to get it together. I need to put some cement in there. I need to freaking fill it in and make it solid again. And I think that's a huge piece of it.

And just the way you're saying this stuff, like being able to reframe the way you look at things, like isn't it crazy to think the way your thought process was, hey, I've got a beautiful wife and two kids and a great job. and I don't deserve this. Yeah. Because my friends that didn't come home, they should be here instead of me,

as opposed to, hey, I've got a great job, a great wife. I got two kids, now three kids. I'm doing my best to earn the fact that I got to come home, and I hope my guys are proud of me. Like that, those are two just totally opposing frames that you can put on the world that you're in. And do you think that, I guess this is my question, how do you grab control of that way, that frame that you're going to put on things? Does somebody external have to help you with that?

Like, how do you make that happen? I think the factor for me was like the external factor. Like, I had that event happen. I wish from the beginning, I would have, because I always felt like it would have been like an impediment on my wife and the kids. like, hey, I need to go get treatment. And she would have said, what, you need to leave for 30 days? Why do you get a 30 day vacation? And it was just, I always, I didn't want to ask for anything.

Like, I don't like being in the way of anything. I don't like being a problem for anyone. Like, one of my biggest, like, flaws is I hate asking for help. I even notice that, like in my day, like, even in my job, like, if there's something like dirty hose or something that I need help with or like getting paid out, I hate inconveniencing people. And that's a me problem. because normally people would want to help like hey man like can you help me go like it'll go a lot

faster if you help me like come clean this hose or whatever and uh i just didn't want to be an inconvenience i didn't want to get in anyone's way and i think like what you're saying framing perspective it it's 100% that because it's not that i don't deserve the life that that i have i do deserve it it's just it's been a bumpy road to get here man and it's i wish i was honest with myself before, but I don't know if I would be here unless that happened. And I know that's very like contradictory and like all over the place, but, but it's true. It took me having a mental breakdown wanting to end my own life to get down to the foundation to like rebuild the home. You know what I mean? And it and it's true like families that are that are like tight net like now with me and

my wife, it's like, okay, well, we can handle, you know, whatever. Like, the kids are getting set home sick from school. It's like, okay, like, cool. We can do it with that. It's actually, like, made us stronger, but it's just the open and honest portion of it. You talked about kind of like having bad days. First of all, what is a bad day? And second of all, what's your, what's your immediate action drill? Like, what's your contingency plan when something like that happens? So, like, normally, like a bad day to me would be like I just get overstimulated especially with like three kids at home like just shit everywhere thing is things are just thrown all over the place something's broken like I just get overstimulated and out of nowhere I'll just get these like bouts of depression to where I'm

just sad for no reason like and it happened to me like several weeks ago my wife's like well what's wrong I'm like I don't know I'm just fucking sad like I don't feel good and it just comes out of nowhere it comes in waves, but, and it's more like the hocus pocus, like I found meditating when I heard about like meditation and like listening to like certain sounds. At first I was like, ah, this is kind of like lame. And then I was guided through it by someone who actually does meditation and does like the therapy for meditation. And on Amazon music, they actually have like American Native American flutes. Oh yeah. So that's like what I throw on. If you, you search Native American flutes, I turn that on. I do meditation. I start doing grounding. Like,

okay, I'm laying in my, usually I go in my room. I'm laying in my bed. I can fill my blanket. I can feel my pillow. I know walls are around me. I know I'm safe. Why am I having these thoughts? And are they true? The biggest thing is like, are they true? So when things would happen like with the kids, be like, man, I'm fucking worthless. Like, am I truly worthless? And it's all about framing. It's like, no, I'm not truly worthless. because I have a lot to offer, a lot to give. And you just start like breaking down those statements in your head. Like, I'm worthless.

I'm a piece of shit. Like I don't deserve to live. And you just kind of like take those head on and be like, all right, well, no, I'm not worthless because I do have a lot to give. I have a purpose. I do deserve to be here. I've worked hard to be here. And then you just kind of like live in the moment.

And I try and clear my brain from everything and just think about nothing. And for me personally, everyone's going to be different. The grounding and the listening to like the Native American flutes or like the yoga music has helped a ton. But just trying to prove that everything that I think is wrong. Because as soon as you start poking holes in the dam, like eventually it'll open back up. And just FYI, man. Like I have four kids, but in my military career, I had three and then I had four, the fourth one towards the end. But like, bro, you just got to deal with it.

Oh, my God. It's just going to be chaos. You just got to be like, oh, yeah. There's just, oh, there's applesauce all over the, you know, computer keyboard. Awesome. There's, you know, a shitty diaper that's on my pillow. Oh, good to go. Like, like, it's just, that's just the way.

Like, you just got to get into it. Yeah, exactly. No, it's, it's just wild. And I would get so worked up for the longest time, like, trying to have a clean house. It's not going to happen. Like, you're just, you're raking sand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's just shit.

It's chaos. And I'm trying to embrace it because everyone says, like, dude, you're going to miss it once it's gone. Like the little feet running down the hallway, like the, like you will miss those days and you're going to miss having the house like just a disaster. So I try and like embrace it. Like when I feel myself getting like worked up or like super sad, I just sit there and like sit around everyone and be like, look, like this is chaos. But but we're in it right now. The other thing is, is like when you say, you know, you get sad, right? Or I guess you're using the word depressed.

Yeah. For me, it took me a little while to like recognize and start telling people that that's fine. Like, you know, oh, you know, you lost some of your friends in combat and you get sad about it sometimes. yeah, of course you do. Like, that's totally normal and totally fine. And, you know, it might be something that you see or something that reminds you or something that, you know, good or bad, something good happens and you start thinking, well, why do I get this?

Like, and that's, it's just like, that's okay. That's just normal. It's part of being a human being, you know? Yeah. I think that is a, I think that's one thing where people can get a little bit sidetracked is they think, wow, you know, I was in combat 10 years ago or 15 years ago or 20 years ago, why am I sad right now that this happened to this guy? There must be something wrong with me.

It's like, no, actually, there's nothing wrong with you. There's not. Actually, you're just sad because you lost your friend, and it sucks, and you're thinking about them, and that's the way life is. It's a good thing. Yeah. You're remembering them, like, hey, man, at least they're being thought about. and you could carry on their memory too.

Like it doesn't have to like sometimes you just wake up. You're sad like you were saying and it's fine. You're a human being. Sometimes there isn't always necessarily a reason. Like you just subconsciously like I've said like sometimes I just get down. And that's fine. But like definitely I'm more self-aware than I used to be because that depression would turn into self-loathing because I'd be like, oh, I'm sad.

I'm such a pile of shit that I can't even be happy. Like see? And it would just spiral. I'm telling you, man, like, I was like, it was bad because I would just believe everything in my head that I told myself. Yeah, I like that. I like that little question you ask yourself, is it true? That seems like a little, like a little, seems like it's not that big of a deal. But actually, if you start pulling the thread on that, is it true?

You start unwinding the ball of yarn. Yeah, no, actually, that's not true. I'm not a piece of shit. Thank you therapy. Yeah. They taught me that. Like is what you're saying true? I don't know.

They're like, no, it's not. So every time you have a thought, like, is it true? Like, am I really worthless? No, you're not. It's not true. You just have to make sure that anything that is in your head, like, it's not reality. And you still go see a therapist on a regular basis? How often?

Right now it's like once every three months because everything's like kind of under control. that whole event happened in August of 19. So like now I've gotten, I'm very open about everything. Like I said, I'm an open book. Like if anyone needs to like reach out, like hit me up on Instagram or whatever.

Like I'll put my like Instagram ID or whatever. If I'm an open book, man. Like I think this stuff is very important. We need to crush the taboo of like a like mental health is weakness because it definitely isn't because I'm not kidding. Like when I came out and I went back. to work and that was another thing was like going back to work. I'm like, how am I going to be around these firemen after they know that I've just had like a mental breakdown? And I had to go to

happy camp for 30 days. Like how how am I even going to show my face? But I'm not kidding. Like say what you want about like going over going and getting therapy. I've had more people come up to me and like, hey man, when did you know it was time? Because I'm having these thoughts too. And that's what's important is that we start the conversation around it. You know what I mean? Like, hey man, like I'm sad. Fuck, man, I get sad too. You get like common humanity between two people, especially two people that have like the same, uh, the same life experiences. Like you and I were both in Ramadi. It's like, hey, it's okay that we both get fucking sad. It's normal. Like, what we went through was hell. When you feel like you have someone else that has also been

through that with you, it builds a community. And for veterans, fire, police, EMS, like, it's okay. Like, it's okay to have some bad days, some down days to have, like, terrible thoughts. Because what we do is, you see the worst of the worst. And I just hope we break that stigma of, like, going and getting help, like, eventually. And I truly believe that we're getting there, seeing, like, the younger generation of, like, firefighters and paramedics. It seems like they're more open to it. And hopefully we will get there.

And I will say like my department was incredible like when I went through my stuff and it's only gotten better. We're more self-aware. They're more open to it. There's more programs out there. They're very instead of reactive, proactive, which is good. And that it seems to be the case with departments all around the nation. And we hope it keeps going that way. So firefighting, you say you work 72 hours on.

Yeah. and and then four days off something along those lines it depends on if you have vacation or we'll have like a drop week so it'll only be 48 days on so 72 hours on straight and then you only get four days off like that's a lot of work in one month do you do that that's the schedule all the time there's no time where it's more than four days and it rotates oh well there's like when the fires pop off like there's a thing called the staffing pattern which you'll get stuck on duty for for for resources. The only thing that'll get you home is if you have what's called like annual vacation. Like we call it AAV. So you'll get sent home if you have vacation. But other than that, it's just a hold-all. But there's like when all the fires are popping off and do you get do you get overtime? Yeah. So you work 40 hours straight and then the whatever the other 32 hours you're getting overtime pay the or no. Our pay is all combined to get. So it's all calculated. together and it's all like through our bargaining unit and like through the union so our we have planned overtime so anything past that is time and a half so the money's good but like we're we're starting to see like the generation that that wants to go home they want to like have families and get time off yeah so it's good and like I said our department it's hopefully going in the right direction with like dropping another day and going to 48 on and then 96 off or whatever the the pattern will be whatever it whatever it turns you

out to be it's good it's a move in the right direction because they've noticed that that it's hard on the firefighters and i know everyone's like oh yeah poor firefighters but like it's yeah i don't know three days all the time over and over again that's that seems like a lot to me yeah it can be but it's a lot of fun i love it yeah i love it now how do you like compartmentalize uh what you're doing at work you're seeing people that are you know ODing getting hit by cars uh suffering all these medical problems plus fires and the whole nine yards do you have some kind of a protocol for like separating what you're doing at work and not dragging that home with you um usually on my first day home i'll like go sleep usually if i'm tired it like it gets worse it can like perpetuate things so my wife has

noticed it like hey go take a nap like you're tired you need you need to go sleep. And like I said, I'm just more open about how I'm feeling. Like, I'll say like, hey, like, I feel like really angry right now. Like, I just feel like amped up. She'll tell me, like, go for a run, go out, go do something. Like, I'm just, I'm more open with like how I'm feeling when I was before I felt like it was a problem. Do you get a chance to PT when you're doing 72 hours on? So one hour every day is dedicated to PT. So we'll like go to the gym. We have a gym at the stations. Some guys will go like play basketball, just have fun with it. But if you get a call, obviously. Yeah, then you got to go. And obviously like mission dependent. Like if there's a big

fire that breaks out. And then how much sleep do you get usually? Generally speaking, on a 72 hour whatever cycle, how much sleep do you think you get? There's some shifts where like it's super quiet at night, like where we're not getting that many calls. And then there's just some shifts where it's like pound town. So it's a little bit of lucker to draw. like Friday, Saturday and Thursday. Yeah, there's times where like Tuesday, it'll be like a Tuesday, but like, what is happening? And like there's no rhyme or reason.

And like I said, I work in the city of Marino Valley. Like that place is always busy and I love it. So it's, it's just luck of the draw. Because you could go work at a busy house and run like, I remember why my wife came out and she rode out with us on the engine. We didn't run a call till four o'clock. And she was like, I thought this place was busy. And I'm like, it is.

Like typically, but of course she's there. We don't run any calls. But typically you just, you get really good at naps. It's like being in the military. I could sleep anywhere. Like it warped to her. I slept next to a fence. I slept on a tree.

Like you get really good at taking naps. And what advice do you have for kids that want to go and be firefighters? What's a good, what's a good, uh, stepping stones? How should they make that happen? Right now is a great time. Um, because just like everywhere, like in the workforce, they're just, having a hard time like finding people. You could look at like your local fire departments.

The Explorer program is great if you're between the ages of 14 and they say 21. If you're above the age 18, try and get into like a reserve program. But looking at your local community college, seeing if they offer any fire science classes, go to your local fire department, be like, hey man, I'm interested in being a firefighter. Like I said, hit me up on Instagram. I'll send you the websites, whatever information you guys need. but now is a great time to try and get a job as a fireman. Because we've hit this like precipice of like the seasoned firefighter

is kind of like a dying breed. Like there used to be this culture of like guys would work as a fireman, like just a straight fireman for years and years and years. And it was always respected. And now it's the population has grown so much. And the departments are getting so big that guys, are promoting a little faster. So we're having this like in the interim, we're just having like a lot of movement and a lot of structure. And it's good because we're growing. But right now it's

kind of like a dying breed. So in my department, I worked on an engine for several years. And then I got to, you know, like the big ladder truck with like the driver in the front and like the driver in the back. I finally made it to like the driver in the back. Well, my fireman, Sean Towsher, he he's like, if you took a computer and you built a fireman. Like that was my partner. And then I'm this goofball paramedic that like comes along and be like, hey, I'm on the fire truck now.

And it was like being in Iraq, man, like trying to learn the scouts jobs and like trying to follow along. I never realized how bad I wasn't my job until you're with someone that is like a master of the craft. And then I was with guys like Dallas Smith, Matt Bryant. the big jujitsu guy too. So my captain that I worked with, he's a blue belt. He's kind of a big deal.

Heck yeah. Love loves your show too. He's going to love the shout out. And you were what, firefighter of the year? Yeah. And how did you manage to get firefighter of the year? They ran out of people. So they ran out of people to vote for. Definitely wasn't based on looks. That's for sure. I like to be organized. So I like to come up with like trainings and and things. And I kind of put myself out there. I'm on like a training cadre with like the new higher firefighters. And I think your peers just slowly notice that kind of thing.

And they took a vote. And luckily I won it. And then you're also teaching at a community college? And you're teaching what firefighting? Paramedics. So I help teach. an adjunct faculty and then I help teach new paramedics and EMTs wherever I can feel. I don't do that as often as I would like, but I go in there whenever I can.

I love it because it like rejuvenates me to back when I went to paramedic school and how much I loved it. Like that was probably one of the best years of my life being there and seeing those kids and like how excited they are and like all the questions that they have. They're like, well, what happens when you do this? And you're like, it's cool. Like it's fun. And just seeing like the new generation like coming up,

I will say like the younger generation, they're so technologically advanced and so smart and quick with recall. Like you could sit these students down and be like, tell me everything you know about magnesium. Tell me everything you know about calcium chloride. They'll bam, bam, bam, they're like smoking them like out of the water. But if you sit them down in front of a Vietnam veteran and they have to do this, like talk to like total collapse.

They don't have the interpersonal skills because to no fault of their own, they grew up with cell phones and texting. They don't, they don't have the element of human connection that like our generation has. You can see that. Oh, 100%. They blow us out of the water with smarts. But it's the hard part is applying like what they know in the book and being so analytical into real life. Like, or knowing when like someone's gaming. you like if someone's trying to like pull one over on you just like the street smarts of it like

you know what I mean if someone's being a smart ass and like not answering your questions like that's where I see students like struggle so we'll take paramedic students and it's like dude like you have the knowledge it's just applying it but I love I love teaching because it reminds me of when I was like that too like learning like oh man I can't wait to get out there that excitement and that drive because like if we could just harness like the younger generation of like paramedics and firefighters because they're excited they just need direction and it's it's just helping them and guiding that enthusiasm and especially with like the fire department we've i hope we implement like a search culture and what i mean by that is victim rescue first like a victim rescue first

mentality. So over the years, like, especially with like the economy and like how people are having trouble finding employees, like the fire department is no stranger to that as well. Like we're like collateral. Like we're having trouble finding people too. And like I said, like the dying breed is still the dying breed of like strong career firemen. So we're getting like these newer guys. And in the fire department, we've kind of taken like a defensive posture. like to where we're quick to pull the trigger on like, all right, let's just go defensive.

Like, let's not like really risk a lot. But so by implementing a search culture, just aggressive search tactics when we pull up first on scene to a structure fire. Like that should be our first thought. And that's what I'm trying to like push to this younger generation. And I love it because it's out there. They just need the guidance and like the backing from like,

they need like the support from it. So when you show up. So when you show up to a fire and your first instinct in your should be like we need to make sure there's no one in there. Yeah, let's just make sure. Like don't be so quick to pull the trigger like, ah, let's just go defensive. Like, hey, let's get in there and do an aggressive freaking search. Like let's do victim search right now. And some of that judgments based on what the structure is, right?

It's nighttime. It's in an industrial area. You're like, yeah, there's probably no one in there. But you're like, no, we got to search it anyways. It's all knowledge skills ability. Like if you've been there, done that before, you know the layout of the land. Like, hey, this is in my first due. Like, I know this building super well.

The homeless population usually hangs out like back here. Let's go search. Like, let's get this search mentality back. So the younger generation loves it. We just need to guide them in that direction. And that's what I hope for. Like, I get excited about it, man. Because I love it.

Like, that's the best job in the world was being on a truck company. And like getting off and doing a search. like a nice like not nice but like a good aggressive search and just having an aggressive fire culture even with paramedicine like let's be aggressive with it like let's make a difference with these patients like it is the worst day of their life that's why they called 911 let's give them the treatment that they deserve let's give them the medicine like let's be aggressive as a culture so it's just hoping to instill that because you I hope to leave the fire service better than I found it and I've luckily I found out that I love teaching as well.

Do I have all the answers? Absolutely not, but I'm pretty good at finding them out. And like, by no means, am I like a martyr or am I speaking on behalf of like all fire departments or anyone at all?

This is just my personal opinion and what I see and what I hope for. So I hope no one's like, hey man, what's this guy talking about? It's, this is just what I see. And that's my hopes and purely just my personal opinion.

No, it's awesome. I want to be aggressive. Yeah, I got friends in the fire department, and I've worked with fire departments all over the country, really. And my company, Eschaton front goes and works with fire departments and love seeing that attitude of like, we're going to fight the fires. We're going to make things happen. And that's badass.

And it's bad. Dors down. Get a good interior attack going. Get horizontal ventilation going. Like, let's rock this thing. Like, put this thing out. Like, let's not just let it burn to the ground. Like, let's get in there, guys.

I was like talk on the radio, coordinate this thing and put it to bed. Yeah. And they did the firefighters, the San Diego firefighters saved my gym, you know, the building. I mean, it got damaged, a lot of damage. But they were, they fought that fire. I mean, they went inside. They had guys in the roof. They had to do what did you call it, vertical.

Yeah, like horizontal ventilation. That's when they're on the route. Yeah, they cut big holes in the roof to get the heat out of there so the firefighters could get close inside. Like they did, they did a full debrief with me, walking me through the whole thing, how they fought it. You're turning me on. Yeah, it was pretty freaking legit. Just some roof ops. Yeah, dude.

They would have thought they, it's all repaired now. But I mean, they were up there with the chainsaw, saw and big holes through it all. Oh, man. And they were in communications because the guys that were in the fire, they couldn't get close enough because it was too hot. So they'd call those guys like more holes, get more the heat out of there. And they were able to save the building.

Heck yeah. Yeah, a coordinated attack. Like, so that's what we're talking about. Get holes in the roof. Get lines in. coordinated attack, get it over with. You could see when they took me in for the debrief. You could see where they were running their fingers along the wall.

Like there was a big mirrors in the locker room. And you could see there all over there. And you could see where they were following the wall. Because they couldn't see shit in there because it was too smoking. Oh, heck no. That's what's scary is like going into them. Like your visibility is like super low. So you have to get comfortable being uncomfortable.

I love it, man. I did. That's great to hear. And I didn't do it, but they have like the, uh, some kind of, I don't what they'd call it but it's like a maze oh confidence box yeah so yeah where you get they get you're trapped on purpose like when we do it we'll like tie stuff around like their breather like their bottle like to get them trapped because it's all about it's all about like what we've been talking about like i'm okay yeah like i'm okay i just need to like back up pull it off my bottle and

like get through this yeah have you ever seen one of those things carry negative it looks like uh you know like a maze, but it goes up and down in like little tiny holes you got to get through and they fill it with smoke. You can see it's not, it's not a not one for a claustrophobic dude. Like it's heat spaces. It's fun. I'm a big dude, but I love stuff like that. It's fun. And like they'll have like a slide on it. They'll put objects like we have barrels that will push over. It's cool. It's just meant to show you like that you are safe in your gear to get that confidence that when you are putting out your gym like you are safe like trust your equipment yeah it's bad ass man like i i have a lot of hope for like the future of like the fire department fire ems like it's a great culture it right now is a great

time to get started in it so if anyone's aspiring please like reach out uh i'll give you whatever i have right all right all i'm awesome does that get us up to speed that's where we're at what's your uh what's your uh instagram you were talking about um My Instagram is A-R-E-O-H-B-E-E-8-4. What the hell does that mean? Oh, wait, it's 1984. So it's my name phonetically. A-R-E is R.

O-H is O-H-O-B-E-B. In the 1984? Yeah, 1984. What do you mean? What is that? You have a guy on here named Echo Charles. That's true, but that's his actual name. No, I know, but what kind of name is that?

Yeah, it's 1984. So, A-R-E-O-H. H B.E. 1984. Or just search Rob Black on Facebook. I don't know everything. I'll never claim to know everything, but I can help whoever.

So we got the, before we wrap up, we got the 1-1-A-D Ramadi reunion taking place in January of 2026. Everybody that was there, and spouses and Gold Star families are all invited to come. There's been,

you know, guys from basically every unit, We're been in contact. We're having meetings, getting it all set up. General McFarland's, you know, he's... That's a big deal. He's still in charge. Yo, ha now.

Yeah, and just awesome. And it's been very cool to reconnect with a bunch of those. That's how I got in touch with Dan Pinyon. Like, there's... I got a few more guys from Ramadi lined up to come on the podcast. But, yeah, if anybody's listening to this that was in Ramadi, please look up. It's a ready first reunion.

And look it up. There's a Facebook. There's a website. There's people to register right now. There's an Instagram. It'd be awesome to see you all down there to see everyone again. It's been wild, you know, because there's like going. We have these, what are the Zoom calls, right?

With all the dudes. And, you know, some of them were like enlisted guys, but some of them are the commanders, you know, and everybody in between. And it's wild to sit down and you haven't seen these guys in almost 20 years because it's a 20-year reunion. And you haven't seen these guys in 20 years, but it's just like I have the instant feeling that we're in a brigade meeting.

Yeah, it's like nothing's changed. Like, there you are. Yes, sir, Roger that. We'll work on that. Who's taking lead on that? Yeah, it's just like, boom. Isn't it funny how the leadership is still the leadership? Like even 20 years later, like the role players are still doing the role

playing. Yeah. I had no idea like what we were saying like going into Ramadi. Like I didn't even know what a cop was. Like, what do you mean? We're building combat outposts. Like what the heck does that mean? Dude, I cannot believe that was your, your welcome to the army.

You're going to, oh, train up to be in an aid station. Oh, no, actually, no, you're going to be the brigade recon troop. What does that mean? Oh, it means you to be going out. Yeah. And going in Overwatch position, it's just nuts, man. Yeah. And seeing what you've done and seeing you, look, what the struggles you've gone through.

I think a lot of guys have been through that. And it'll be awesome to sit down and meet and greet with a bunch of people that we haven't seen it 20 years. Oh, absolutely. I know you said you haven't logged in for your vacation time yet. We bid in October. But let's go. Oh,

absolutely. Somebody give this guy some time off up there. No, I'll get it. It's going to be freaking legit. So people can find you. There's your Instagram, A-R-E-O-H-B-E-1984. Carrie, you got any questions?

I did have one question. So, say, us in, white, white, al-W-H-E-E-E-E-E-E-O-H-W. Anthony Green. What are your opinions on that album? I just saw Anthony Greed at when we were young. It still got it. Right on. He's in a new band. I forget what it's called.

We saw them. They opened up for Taking Back Sunday and the Used. We went to that like concert on the Friday night. Yeah. Circus survived, maybe? Yeah. So that was his side project. Right, right.

Circus, man, you're taking it back. Yeah. I love like the song seven years, bury your head. They perched on the side. stills, oh man, love it. We actually caught a, me and a buddy mine caught a circus live show. No way. In LA, a few years back and it was awesome, man. Anthony Green still got it for sure. Good energy. Like, he puts on a good, like he's just an energetic dude, like in his stage presence is really good. 100%. What's the playlist looking like now? Like what do you

got going on? For me? Yeah. It's the same garbage I've been listening to. Like, I'm so stuck in the, like, if I try and get into new bands, I'm like, I'm just going to go back to what I love. Like the Rufio, still yellow card, Blingwin, AT, like all the typical bands that I still love. Nice. I got caught up in, you know, post-hardcore 2003 to like 2009. That's what's on my phone.

And that's just, yeah, you mentioned a day to remember too, freaking still. The all-time low. Me and my wife saw I have Ralevin last year. That's awesome. Yeah, I did definitely. a little bit of the used to. Oh, we saw them live with Taking Back Sunday.

Holy smokes. Incredible. Like, one of the best shows I've ever seen on. Like, it sounded like the album. Like, it was, you know, when you see bands and sometimes it's like disappointing, me like, like, man, that kind of sucks. It sounded like the album. They were incredible.

Right on. Yeah, I went harder, the harder route, but definitely those guys were in the mix. Yeah. On the chill days throwing on some ASN or, yeah, anything. Oh, sorry. No, no, no. Big dick over here. My bad.

Geez. Sorry. Sorry, I'm a little harder. Yeah, sorry. I like real music guy. I'm putting up 225 for sets, bro. My bad. Ripping it out.

Have you guys had a carb since the Bush administration? Like, Jesus Christ, when you guys eating elk over here? God damn. Elk and mulk. Yeah, just fucking beefy. God, make me insecure. Jack. What else?

That was it? Yeah. Nothing else? No freaking deep Ramadi questions. I always wondered like for you guys, for like you sitting here because you, because you've been hanging around for so long and just, you know,

sitting here with someone that was seeing like my guys from the outside and what did we look like? I'm always curious. Like what was that? You kind of gave us, you know, some of that today. Like, rolling into it. Organized. It's always,

it's always cool to like get another piece of the picture as somebody on the outside looking in where we hear from the, the task unit bruiser guys, right? And then we hear from the leadership, General McFarland, you know, and some of the other key leaders. And then we, we hear from some of the Marines and the army guys that were on the ground. It's just all these different perspectives that paint this picture of what it was like in the Battle of Ramadi. One of the things that you brought up today that I thought was super cool, Rob, was what it was like to go meet with and plan with the seals. You know,

we know what it's like from the bruiser side, I feel like, as a little bit of the little. listener, you've described how you presented that to the bruiser guys where it's like, hey, we're going to be squared away. We're going to be in uniforms. We're going to have haircuts. Everything's going to be super squared away. But to see it from the Army perspective, too, where it's like, oh, shit, we got to wash our stuff and make sure we're, you know.

Well, you're going into the SEALs talk. Like, you're being, one, you're being invited in. so you're like, oh shit, like I hope we don't screw this up. And then you need to instill that like, can we trust these turds? Like, if we show up and we look like a bag of ass, they're going to be like, these are the guys watching our outer cord on? Well, what's funny is that's exactly the same thoughts we had. Like, you know, we were like, we need to show these guys that were squared away.

Oh. And the other thing is, is like, we looked at you guys the whole time. We looked at all the conventional units like, oh, cool. We're going to go do an op. It's going to take us an hour. or maybe we'll do an Overwatch. It's going to take us 24, maybe 48 hours. Maybe 72 hours will be out there.

And then we'll go back and we'll, we have air conditioned spaces. And we got, you know, my guys had the video game freaking things set up. And we got decent chow. And it's like, oh, yeah, when we're back, you guys are going to go back out again. And then you're going to back out again. And then you're going to go back out again. And so we knew that you guys were just getting after it every single day. And that's why we had so much respect for you guys.

And that's why we did everything we could to support. you guys as much as we possibly could. I know I got some more battalion commanders coming on in the near future. And it was the same thing. Like for us, you know, for us being in a SEAL platoon, like we got 30, 40 SEALs. You know what I mean? When we're doing a big operation, it's 30, 40 SEALs. When we're going to battalion op orders where there's 700 freaking dudes going in,

Iraqi army, U.S. Army, 30 or 40 or 50 armor pieces going in, bro. It's like you're in a movie. Like, I was in heaven. I was like, this is freaking epic. Well, that's what you guys, you guys live for that. Yeah. That's why you guys join the seals.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I talked about this with General McFarland, but everybody feels the same way. It's like the inter-service rivalry that you hear about is like, just was not there. You know, it's like, what do you guys need?

How can we help? we're going to support. And that's the way it had to be. That is true. Like the humility amongst like the co-ops, like how everything was working out. Like at least, and I was, I was very like, like, Dan's going to give you the perspective from like the leadership and like how he was running his platoons. I was just the only thing I needed to worry about was like, did I have rounds in my rifle? And did I have a couple IVs and some band-aids?

So it just like filling in those gaps and like giving the different perspective. Like I hope I provided that. Oh, for sure, for sure. And we've had a few of the front line dudes here, you know, just front line soldiers that were out there getting after it, getting after it, and then getting after it some more. That's what you guys were doing.

It was freaking, it was, we watched in awe as you guys, as you guys did your thing. So anything else, Kerry? No, sir. Freaking epic.

Rob, any final thoughts, brother? I just hope if, if anyone is listening, do not give up. It does get better. I know it sounds very, like you've heard it before.

During my darkest times, I did rely on a lot of my friends that I've had like lifelong friendships with. And they were all there for me. I could never repay them for what they did for me and my wife, my kids. Like there is hope. Do not give up.

You aren't a worthless piece of shit. Like it's okay to be deprecate. It's okay to be have good days have bad days and it happens and it's going to keep happening over and over again like it's a lifelong journey with this like mental health crap and we can all get through it together like as a community military fire police EMS like we if we all band together like there's nothing that we can't do. God that sounds super like lame right it sounds like it also sounds super true. No it truly is but it sounds like very gimmicky. You know we just talked about being on the battlefield and how it's like hey whatever you need. We'll where there will support each other and it's the same exact thing you're talking about it truly is and and my instagram's out there i'll give you guys like my information if you want to put it up like if anyone has any questions about like the fire department ems getting into it if i can help in any way shape or form like at least guide you in the direction because i i never have all the answers but but i will try and find all of them i have a lot of resources too like a lot of friends

that that could help me out as well that's awesome man well great great final words man don't never give up man never um thanks for joining us thanks for sharing your experiences it's just awesome awesome to see you thanks for your service in remoddy uh as i said man it was an honor to watch you guys there's an honor to serve alongside you guys and and know that we were mutually supporting each other on the battlefield and we can still mutually support each other now absolutely um so we'll never forget you guys we'll never forget the heroes that you guys lost and uh thanks for your service in the fire department as well i know it's a hell of a job And thanks for continuing to lead and serve to this day, brother.

Thank you. Thank you for having me on and thank you for this opportunity. I truly appreciate it. Awesome. Thank you. And with that, Rob Black has left the building. Frigan awesome to see him. It's going to be awesome to see all of you that served in Ramadi with us down in Texas in January.

come to the reunion, the Ramadi reunion. It's going to be epic. Seeing everybody, they got music planned. They got events planned. I think there's some kind of golf activity going down. So if you can, you know, try and make it happen. It's going to be, it's going to be really cool. It's been very cool to see all the, a bunch of the people on these Zoom calls that we're doing. So if you can make it down, look, look at the, you know, Rob, great guy. you know, clearly had some struggles, had some stuff to get through. And like he said, don't give up. And like he also said, you know, we support each other on the battlefield.

Let's keep supporting each other. You know, let's keep supporting each other. So if you were there with us, if you're Gold Star family, please come down to Texas for the ready first Ramadi reunion. We look forward to seeing you there. And that's what we're doing. Also, I know that Kerry, you've been, you've been a strong. struggling a little bit lately. Not so much with mental health, but more with trying to hit your

protein activities, right? Is that what we're doing? Well, struggling in a good way, I would say. It's not like a bad struggle, you know. We're just trying to hit goals and, you know, sometimes that's challenging. Because Rob was talking about the beef in the room, right? Rob was talking about that. So what are you trying to hit protein wise? So 200 grams, you know, trying to hit 200 grams a day. And what I, a while back I started oh so what are you going with one gram per pound of body lean body weight or or something something like that roughly that's what you're doing roughly but 200 grams I started tracking it again a little while back I go through these phases right where I'm like super dialed into my tracking and then life happens right we get busy so started tracking again I noticed that my

protein was way down I was you know getting like 120 125 grams just because I'm only eating two meals right I'm skipping breakfast. I'm doing like a big lunch, big dinner type thing. How many grams are you getting 125? Well, it was like it was roughly 125 because it was two portions of meat a day, right? And one of those portions wasn't a four pound steak,

four pound piece of rib eye. And that was before and you throw like a protein shake on top of that, right? So that gets you to like 130, 130 grams. It's like, we got to get those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers. Rookie numbers. So how many mulks a day does it take to get your numbers? So I'm kind of fortunate, right, because I'm at the Jocko Fuel media offices and we kind of got the goods, right?

So I can get it. That stash, boy. So we get that. You know what I texted the other day or are you in the office? Yeah. You know what I needed? What? I needed Jock Fuel.

I was low. I was low on the iced tea lemonade energy. I was going to be like, bro, I'm going to swing by there and grab a something something. Get that stash. Yeah. I ordered it. By the way, if you order Jocco Fuel right now, like I just ordered, I ordered, I ordered four cases of icy lemonade

go. Let's go. And it's here. It's like here in three days or something like that. So we got you covered. So do you, are you making those kind of super power shakes too, like protein shakes with, do you put three scoops in? I've triple scooped.

And so it's RTD usually in the morning or, you know, early afternoon. And then in the evenings before the meal, I'll hit another like shake blender style. And double scoop for sure. Sometimes you get crazy, get that third one in. But that helps with consistency, too.

You get that, like, milk shake. What flavor you're going? Chocolate all day. All day. I've been heavy on the chocolate train. Uh-huh. Yeah. I got some, have you tried the pro series yet?

I've tried the pre-workout, and I gave Ashley at JoccoFuel, like a four-paragraph feedback. Because you were so hyped. I was so hyped, man. It is insane. The protein is, it's really, really delicious. So we got a pro series coming out. Anyways, all the stuff that we're talking about, you need some fuel, you need Jocko Fuel, you need energy, you need hydration, you need protein, you need cold protection, immunity

protection. We got you. Go to joccofuel.com and check that out. Also, you can check out OriginUSA.com. I know, so I sacrificed my Chelsea boots, which Echo is upset about, apparently. I never would picture Echo. First of all, it's hard to even picture Echo wearing any types of shoes at all. If he is, he's wearing those, whatever, those converse, like, elastic chucked-tailed.

No laces. Hell you. That's what he sports. Or slippers, you know, flip-flops, as we call him. But in front of him, I gave you the Chelsea boots. I watched it. He's holding the grudge. I watched it on his face.

Like, as you passed me, the boots, like, his experience. expression kind of dropped. He was upset. But they're working out for you? Oh, dude. Yeah. So we had a little, we had a little date night scenario the other day. And yeah, I had to shoot you a picture afterwards because those are so clutch when, and I'm not, I'm not a super fashionable guy, you know, but, you know, little button up whatever, short sleeve button up, some jeans. And I throw on, those Chelsea boots, man, and it is, uh, it is game over. Compliments from, um, you know, money on those. So yeah, big, big fan.

Those Chelsea boots are insanely comfortable. Yeah, they are comfortable. I did try them on before I gave them away. They're just not really my, you know, to say I have some style of some kind is kind of a weird thing to even say, but they're not something I would be wearing, right? So I'm not going to just have them sitting there in my closet.

I wear the mock toes kind of, that's what I wear right now. Uniform. And then obviously origin jeans all day. You know, they have, I got the first, where my wife got a pair of the test pair of female origin jeans. So those are common. And they're like, my wife was freaking pumped.

She was like, dude, these are great. These fit perfect and blah, blah, blah, blah. So we got some, we got some ladies jeans on the way. I think we're going to run like three or four thousand pairs, something like that. So we'll let you all know. But the thing is, the stuff's made in America, of course, 100%. So you don't have to have something that's embedded with a, communist, communist threads.

Communism free. Yeah, it's communism free 100%. So there you go, origin USA.com. Hey, speaking of fashion, you're wearing a jaco store shirt, the sugar-coated lies shirt. What is that, crispy cream or something? This is the gank. This is a rip of the crispy cream logo, but this is actually a shirt locker shirt. So this is one of the kind of cool designs that you will see.

in your shirt locker subscription. And of course, this one especially every time I wear it, people are like, where do I get them? You know, got to let them know. Let them know, share a locker. Check out jocco store.com if you need anything to wear. We got you covered there. Books, I written a bunch of books, but also, once again, Daniel Pinyon, Command Sergeant Major, retired. He wrote this book called Chop That Shit Up, which is the best title.

And when you get the story behind that title, you'll know what it's all about. But check out this book. You heard some of it today with Rob Black also covered it on the podcast. But check out the book, man. Great book from a great guy. And then Eschelon Front, you know, we talked about some of the things that we experienced in Ramadi today. And, you know, there was a lot of lessons learned. A lot of lessons learned from a leadership perspective.

And we took those lessons and we eventually started teaching. teaching these lessons learned to, well, originally, we taught them to SEALs. And then once I retired, we started teaching them to civilian companies and teams and whatever. So they caught, they caught on because they're effective. They're approved in combat and they'll work, no matter what leadership endeavor you're into,

they will help you. So Eshlonfront.com, we got leadership consulting, we got events that we do, we do keynote speeches. We do, we will have, help you in your leadership journey. And it'll improve every aspect of your life. And then also embedded in Eschalonfront, we have Extreme Ownership.com,

which is an online leadership school. And so many people, so much good feedback on it. So leadership is everything. Leadership is everything that you're doing. If you're interacting with other human beings, you're leading. So check out Escalonfront.com. Check out Extreme Ownership.com. And we got you covered.

Also, if you want to help service members, you know, we lost Mark Lee in Ramadi on August 2nd. And Mark's mom, she turned that into the most positive thing you could imagine, which is her charity, America's Mighty Warriors. Incredible organization helps out so many veterans. If you want to help or you want to support, you want to get involved, go to America's Mighty Warriors.org. Also check out Heroes and Horses.org. Again, you can hear the struggles that Rob went through. It's tough When guys come home

And Heroes and Horses.org Takes guys, takes veterans Takes them up into the mountains I think it's a 41 day Vision quest You get a horse And then you break the horse Or whatever

I think they call it breaking Maybe they have a nice reward for it now Because it's different They do it in a different way It's like you You build a relationship with the horse And the horse starts to trust you And then you can ride

the horse and then you ride the horse in the back country for 41 days of Montana. It's freaking awesome. Great impact on people. So check out on Heroes and Horses.org. And then Jimmy May has got an organization beyond the brotherhood. Again, it's beyond the brotherhood.org. It's taking guys that got to get out of the seal teams that need to move on to the next chapter of their life. So you can you can check that out as well. If you want to connect with us, so here's Rob Black. He made a lot of real generous offers, you know, for people that want to reach out to him. Whether you need some help, you know, with your mental health, need some help getting into the fire department, becoming a paramedic, EMT, whatever.

He's obviously a super generous guy, and he's on Instagram, and he's at A-R-E-O-H-B-E-E-1984. And if you want to connect with us, you can check out jocco.com. And on social media, I'm at Jocco. like Kerry's at Carrie Helton. Just be careful. Don't waste a bunch of time on there and it'll wreck your life. Once again, thanks to Rob Black for joining us.

Grateful for your service as a firefighter and as a soldier. It was a hell of a fight there in Ramadi. The fact that you were 21 years old and you and your crew just stood tall and took the fight to the enemy. It was an honor to serve with all of you. Thanks to all of our military personnel out there. around the globe right now with a reverent salute to the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines of the Ready First Brigade Combat Team for the blood, sweat, and sacrifice in that Godforsaken city.

Thank you for what you did over there, and I hope to see all of you at the reunion in Texas, January, 26, 20 years. I'll see you there. And finally, thanks to our police law enforcement firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, Border Patrol, Secret Service, all of you first responders out there every day, just like Rob Black, in some cases with Rob Black.

Thanks for keeping us safe here at home. And for everyone else out there, just remember what Rob closed out with. Don't give up. Don't give up. There's going to be some high points. There's going to be some low points. They're going to come.

They're going to go. But don't, no matter what, don't give up. That's all I got. Until next time, this is Kerry and Jocko.