Jocko Podcast - 550: The Company Commander's Playbook for Leadership

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

>Join Jocko Underground Full Episodes< Using the Marine Corps Company Commander's Handbook as a guide, Jocko and Echo discuss what every leader should know before taking over a team: setting expectations, establishing a command philosophy, earning trust, leading through influence, and creating a culture where people thrive.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 550 with Echo Charles and me. Jocko Willink. Good evening. Good evening. So that we know that leadership is the most challenging of endeavors. No doubt about that. And yet, you know what? It happens all day every day.

In if you think about every capacity, every industry, every different team, right? Large, small, whether they're accomplishing some simple low risk task or completing the most complex, dangerous high risk tasks imaginable. All that is done through leadership, all of it. Now the Marine Corps, the military out large, I'm going to talk about the Marine Corps for a second, does this all day every day. And in the Marine Corps, it's in every capacity.

Not every job in the Marine Corps is hazardous life risk or high risk scenario. Some of it is simple, you know, safe administrative tasks. They do have the other end of the spectrum, obviously combat, dangerous tasks. tasks that they're doing missions and they get it done and much of this happens at the company level in the Marine Corps and in the Army led by a company commander these these are officers that have been in the Marine Corps for maybe eight to 10 years something like that a company

generally speaking is somewhere between 150 to 250 Marines somewhere in there which is when you think in the military everything is the same do you think that as a non-military person if I said how many people are in a are in a Marine Corps company when you think oh it's always 172 yeah I used to think that yeah I used to think that yeah I think but the military they make adjustments and they allow variables to dictate what they're going to do so but generally speaking Marine Corps company is going to have between 150 to 250 Marines in it and they They do all kinds of different jobs. Obviously, you got your rifle company.

They got your combat, right? Rifle company, weapons company, reconnaissance companies, light armored reconnaissance. You got combat assault companies. You got all kinds of things that their job is to close with and destroy the enemy. But then they also have headquarters company, which handles like the administrative stuff and the communications and the medical and logistical support for a battalion or for a regiment.

You have combat engineer companies, which, by the way, see a ton of combat, maintenance or supply companies, communication companies, intelligence companies, there's all these different companies that have different tasks, but regardless of what the task is, it's all executed through leadership, obviously. And the Marine Corps learned a lot of lessons at that company level, and they passed some of these lessons on through the company commander handbook. and I was reviewing this the other day, reading through it,

and I thought there's some lessons learned about leadership in here that are worth sharing. So this is, once again, the United States Marine Corps Company Commander's Handbook. And this thing,

it was originally written in 1989, but there's been updates 2006 up to 2010. And they say that this is a generic guide written for commanders or prospective commanders of company level organizations we designed it as a handy reference which presents guidelines advice and time tested lessons derived from years of experience in leading and commanding Marines we did not design it to replace the need for an officer to study his profession

or to supersede Marine Corps orders directives and manuals and you can see this is like a it's kind of a bare bones just putting out the word like hey this is a guidebook like it's not the manual It's a guidebook, little company commander handbook. And so this first part is talking to when you're preparing to go into command. And this is a big deal. This is a big deal in the Army and the Marine Corps, company command. It's a huge leadership position. You know, this is you get done with your platoon commander and then you're going to have

some kind of a probably disassociated tour at some point. They're going to come back and be a company command. Above that's battalion. So this company command, these are the guys that are still, they're still in the mix, we'll say. And actually a task unit in the SEAL teams is the equivalent of a company commander.

So the task unit commander? Yes, task unit commanders is an equivalent level, even though the task unit commander is less people. And in a lot of ways, the company commander in the Army or the Marine Corps, Much more responsibility because you have a lot more people and You're gonna be running all kinds of stuff. It's a little even even a platoon in the SEAL teams is like 15 to 20 maybe 25 people and in the army or the Marine Corps like 40 40 plus people

So it's a bigger unit the maneuver element like the combat fighting element that you have Jen again generally speaking in a company of Marines is like almost all of them. Whereas in a SEAL task unit, generally speaking, again, things change. It's, there's variables, but you have your support element is included in that. So like in Tasking Bruiser,

we had like 40 seals, but we had 100 people. So 60 of those people were CBs and Intel people and radio people and communications people and computer people, like they were there. And they're all part of this task unit? Yes. Okay.

The task unit has all those people with you. Okay. So you technically, you're in charge of 100 people, but, and it could be more. It could be 150. It could be depending on the situation. But only 40 of those guys are shooters. So the CBs, for example, that were attached. Yeah.

Attached to you guys. They are technically in task unit bruiser. Yeah. Technically they're part of task unit bruiser. Yes. Yes. They are technically part of Tasking to Brueger, but I would, you know, any one of them would immediately clarify,

I was a support guy, Tasking a Brueger. So, but yeah, they were there in Tasking a Bruezer. They were, they made it happen. I mean, we would have been incapacitated if we didn't have our TBs, our intel people, our communications people. All those people were great. And we had some really awesome people. I should get some of those.

I should get support. I saw my radio man who was like a young guy. and I don't want to say his name, but he was great. And he's a guy that I had, I put his, like, office right outside of the tax cooperation center. And I was like, I, he's like, I said, you need to be here. Because when I yell your name, when I need something, I want you to be able to hear me. So I'd yell at his name. Let's say his name was, you know, Smith.

I'd be like, Smith. And he would immediately be there. And great, dude. But the last time I saw him was, he was a, he was. He's a master chief, like he retired as a master chief. So should get some of those guys on there, get their perspective on what it was like. So this first chapter is assuming command,

and it starts off with preparing for a command. And this is a good, interesting thing. Many officers say, many officers say, I would do anything to command a company. If you're one of those officers, do you really mean it? Are you suited for command? Have you really considered all that commanding a company entails?

Try honestly to answer the following questions. do you really want to command? Are you sure your motivation is more than simply having command experience entered on your record? Are you willing to dedicate yourself solely to your unit? Is your family willing to assume a role in helping you to create a happy Marine Corps community? Is your family willing, if necessary, to be secondary to the unit? You don't see that on paper very often. I know I've said it a thousand times.

And I've heard of, I hear people say it. Your family's going to come second. Often. not all the time but often Do you like to be with young people? Can you live with their energy? Their points of view. They're probably that goes on this whole list.

Are you and your family willing to live in a goldfish bowl open to observation and criticism by both subordinates and superiors? Are you able to do many things at one time? Can you manage a complex job? Are you willing to take hard knocks that come from assuming responsibility for failures of your subordinates? Are you confident that you can produce a superior unit from average? men can you inspire men to achieve outstanding results you're gonna get like you're gonna get you're gonna get dudes and there's gonna be a bell curve some great most of them

will be cool and a couple losers slugs you're gonna have some studs and some duds and some in between that's what you're gonna get can you turn that average group into an outstanding unit are you flexible when dealing with changing situations are you willing to risk new ideas all you willing to take reasonable risk to allow your subordinates to grow and to become more productive decentralized command has risk a lot of it sometimes are you willing to let your subordinates be creative are you accessible to your troops does your manner invite communication mine doesn't always that's for damn sure that's for sure do you really listen can you withhold judgment until all the factored so this is

just the opening salvo to get you to think through these things And these are somewhat rhetorical questions. I don't think anyone's gonna fill this out and be like, oh, actually, I don't think I really want command. Yeah, no. You know, they should put together a list like this before trying to go to buds. Even though some people, I think everyone would just be like,

oh, no, serve something bigger than all those questions. People would figure out how to answer them. Yeah, it feels like to, like how you said, it's a rhetorical question. So it might go over some people's head, I think. You know, it's kind of like, oh, yeah, I'll fill this out. Easy. Yeah.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And then when it comes time, you know, you kind of forget or whatever. Well, they kind of got you covered here. Because the next thing it says is if you are honest with yourself, you will probably answer no to some of these questions. Yeah, yeah. Only if you are completely honest in answering these questions where you gain real insight into what lies ahead.

So ask yourself some questions. You know, that's a really good thing to do. When you have a goal is ask yourself like all these types of questions about what that goal is and figure out what the real day. deal is what is it you really want. I've worked with companies and companies are trying to grow, right? Trying to scale. And when you start asking them why they're trying to scale, all of a sudden they

realize they don't actually want to scale. What they want to do is maybe make a better product or have the opportunity to get higher income. And the only way they can think of a way to get higher income is to just scale. They want to grow. They want to grow. They want to grow. And with growth comes problems.

It's not, problems don't become less when you grow. They become more. And, you know, they want more freedom so they're going to grow their company. Okay. Well, hold on a second. Just make sure. And look, obviously, sometimes the answer is to grow. Oftentimes that is the answer, but not always.

This is before assuming command, and I'm not reading this whole manual, but determine what your company's missions are and analyze them, obviously. Study the FM's, the field manuals on how your company's supposed to operate. This is, you ever heard me say, hey, there's, There are stupid questions. There are stupid questions. If you're taking over a role and you haven't done the basic background for what that role requires and you ask questions that are real obvious, you're stupid.

That's a stupid question. You shouldn't do it. Obtain copies of your units, SOPs, be familiar with them. So you don't want to show up a day. Oh, hey, how do you guys do this? It's already SOP. You had that manual for three weeks. You didn't even look at it.

You don't care. Get in good physical condition. Hell yeah. You cannot do your best unless you are an excellent mental and physical health Brush up on the MOS and leadership skills you need to do your job your new Marines will see you as being out of touch if you cannot converse with them at their level of knowledge Again, this is stupid questions. What kind of gun is that? Get a feel for the environment by visiting higher headquarters staff officers who help support your company. Makes sense. Hey, hey, give me some feedback on this company. What do they do well? What do they do?

do poorly. Establish a good relationship with your fellow commanders, obviously. Find out how they operate, gain from their experience. Ask for ideas from the battalion sergeant major, right? You got your senior enlisted guy. He knows what the deal is. He's going to give you some really good insight. Maintain, when discussing the status of you, you're going to be positive and maintain an open mind.

What others say may or may not be correct. That's an important one. I was very, I would say I was pretty solid at. Trying to take information, gossip as data points, and not becoming too skewed or biased on something that I heard. Yeah. You know, I hear something about a guy, that guy's a piece of shit. Like, okay, well, first of all, who's the source?

Second of all, how did, you know, that was three years ago, you know, I work with that guy back in such and such. You're like, bro, you don't think that guy's matured at all in the past nine years. Yeah. Take it easy. Yeah, that when you said, um, data points for the first time or whatever.

Oh, it's a data point. And you said it to me too off air. We were talking about something else here. Like, oh, that's a data point. And it's like that was such a good way to like clarify and kind of illustrate that concept of not going. You know, you hear, let's say you hear one thing that's like kind of bad about somebody. And then because I think, I believe that it's natural for your mind to just be like, oh, well, he's a piece of shit. Because of, you know, that one thing.

It's like, no, no, no, not necessarily. you know in fact I was talking to I was talking to my friend and we were talking about somebody where we let's face it's something came up huge yeah it's a it's a public thing so whatever and you know he had run into a scenario this guy not my friend we're talking about this guy who ran into a scenario and he's like yeah you know and he's explaining all what this guy is known for and it's like it's all bullshit and I was like I wouldn't I wouldn't say it's all it's all It's data. Yeah, it's all day.

Yeah, it's exactly right. Because one thing doesn't necessarily have to do with the other. Is you what I'm saying? Two things. Anyway, but, you know, without going too deep in the details, it's true. But that's the trap you can fall into. You hear one thing and think that data applies to everything. Doesn't necessarily.

Well, yeah, once you get into the, like the news media. Yeah. I mean, you have to accept everything as just data points from, you know, spin that's been put on with the whole nine yards, you know. But keep that in mind when you're, you're learning about people. Like people have all kinds of opinions about other people. And just remember that that's not the perfect picture.

Well, there's this show called Forensic Files. I know I brought it up before. There's a what a show called show? Forensic files. Is it a documentary? Yeah, yeah. So it's real life. Yeah, real life.

Real crimes that have been committed, you know, and they get to the bottom of how they solve these crimes, right? So when they, every once in all, you know, they'll show the suspect, right? And they'll be like, suspect, John Smith is an unemployed electrician, like he includes unemployed.

You know, I think just for the drama, but every time he says that, I kind of think to myself, Brian, you didn't have to say that. You didn't have to say unemployed, you know?

But I mean, maybe he did, I don't know, but it seemed like you was saying it for you to paint your own picture of this person. You see what I'm saying? What if he was just unemployed

just for a little bit? You know what I'm saying? I agree. Anyway. And then it talks about, you know, get to know your, the managers of the base facilities, check out the training here. It's all good stuff. Observe your junior officers and your non-commission officers. And then it says, take time to sit down and write out your philosophy of command.

Include those things you plan to do to establish the type of climate you want in your unit. To begin, begin to formulate your goals, milestones, recognize that you may have to alter them as your appreciation of the situation increases. And then determine what you will say when you first meet with your platoon commander's executive. officer first sergeant staff non-commissioned officers and n cos and then it gets into this this philosophy of command and i think when i was reading this i was like oh we should probably do this on the podcast successful commanders are those with a well-developed philosophy of command and a clear vision of what they want their companies to be as a result they focus their energies and the energy of the company to make things happen this may sound easy but consider what happens when a new commander

fails to communicate his philosophy of command to establish a future vision or to think through a system to measure progress toward that vision. So what do you end up with? You end up with indecision by subordinates. They feel as they feel out, as they feel out the new commander. Constant initiation or revision of policy as the commander's intent is discovered, reduction of energy and focus as subordinates try to follow their commanders changing directions of March, inappropriate use of people and resources as priorities change and delays

in building subordinates trust and confidence. So that's what happens when you don't have this philosophy of command. Now, I will tell, I never did this. And it wasn't when, when I was in Task Unit Brouser and I got done with the job and Seth Stone took over the job. And I came down to his office, which was my old office, like three days later. And he had like the full philosophy of command up on his board. And I was like, oh, nicely done, Seth Stone.

I think that my philosophy of command was so inherent in my in my reputation that like it was kind of already there. You know what I mean? But for him it was like a good move. Like, hey, this is what we're doing. Especially because Seth probably I would say was leaning towards being too, you know, being too friendly. With the boys, you know? So I think that helped him like, okay, this is, I need to get this down on paper for you guys and for me too. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

But that was a step up. You know, I was like, oh, okay, he's, he's going to hammer this out. Yeah. And then it says, here's some key ingredients before you assume command in your philosophy. These are my values. This is how I plan to exercise command. These are my goals and objectives that are important to me. this is how I evaluate.

This is how I will reward and punish. Like, imagine if you just put that out day one. You're doing so good. Hey, here's what's important to me. Because a lot of times you take over and people are kind of like, oh, wait, wait, what's important to this guy? Like, oh, is, you know, they're, oh, wait. How does he get, he's, oh, he's decentralized command.

Oh, he's going to micromanage me at first and he's trying to make sure I know how to do my job and he's going to let me, like those kind of things. Ask yourself these questions as you take command. How do I want this company look two years from now? How do I make that happen? How do I measure progress toward that vision? How will I know that my subordinates understand my vision and my methods of getting there? What are my priorities for the short term for the long term?

What is important for me on a daily basis? Good stuff. So again, anytime you write down stuff, you become detached from it, but you also are setting a goal and setting a standard that you can now aim towards, which is important. talks about meeting with your predecessor. And again, you know, we're talking about Marines, but this is anybody that's going to take over some job somewhere. And, you know, you're meeting with the guy that had it.

It goes, and if you're relieving a commander who is simply moving on to a new job, it's a good idea for you to have a conference with him, get to do his views and strength and weaknesses and organization and key people. Cool. If you're leaving someone who's being removed because of poor performance, a conference with your future boss is in order. Discuss some problems that have arisen. And this is, I did that.

I did that one time. You know, I took over for a platoon where the platoon commander was getting fired. I've also taken over for situations like when I took over tasking commander was a good, good to go task. You know, the guy was done with his job. Trade ad. I took over trade ad. You know, like, normally you're going into someone that's doing fine. If you're going into something where things have been askew, you know, you definitely want to meet with the guy's boss for sure.

So you figure out what the problem is. And then you, you know, generally speaking, got to identify that problem really quickly and get things moving in the right direction. In that particular case, and I think in most cases, if the boss is getting relieved, I would, I would treat it out of the gate as if the boss is the problem and the boys are ready to move in the right direction. You know, that it's not a cancer and everyone's pissed off. Even when I took over when I took over when the platoon planner got fired Not all the guys wanted the guy to get fired some of the guys liked him Oh damn so some of the guys were like no he's good to go and some of the guys are like yeah He sucked and generally speaking

The I would say the there was probably he probably had five guys that were kind of on his side And they weren't bad guys, but they were just kind of like oh you know they had a good relationship with them Yeah, and then probably five of them were pretty neutral like well yeah, he probably could have done better but but you know, I don't need you fire the guy. And then five of them were like, dude, this guy had to go. Yeah. So it was a little bit of a mix. It wasn't like when my platoon commander got fired when we had a

mutiny on him. Then it was like rapid, rabid hatred across the troops. Yeah. Which we were all just freaking assholes just hated it, right? So you could get anything. But my, but taking over that platoon, my assumption was like, oh, the guys are all screwed up. In fact, I thought, you know, the guys were probably squared away. Well, what I was.

I thought was there's a bell curve. There's going to be some good guys. There's going to be some bad guys. Do you go in there and immediately cause there to be a rift between the guys that were lovers and the guys that were haters? Like, that's not a good move. Like, hey, guys, I'm not worried about that. I kind of did what Delta Charlie did.

Hey, look, I'm not worried about the guy that got fired. I'm looking forward to working with you guys. Obviously, you know, take another page out of Delta Charlie's book. Just take it out. You apply it. Yeah. That actually happened to us, too, in football, the whole coaching. Oh really?

Staff got fired. Damn. And some guys. What part of the season? Like after the season? Yeah, yeah. It's like in the transition. And there was lovers and haters.

Yep. Exactly right. Some guys, in fact, some of the guys were like, hey, we want, they like rallied and like went to, I think, to athletic director. To no avail. Like this. What side were you on? That's classified. Okay.

But, um, nonetheless, there was. There was a. PTSD. There was a spectrum. Uh, to be honest, I was neutral. There were not, you know, I was kind of all over the place. because some of those coaches I was like happy with like I had. Why did they all get fired?

They're pretty straightforward with with that. They give you a chance and then if you don't have like a winning season after, you know, however long. It's like they they replace the coaching staff. You know what I'm saying. Maybe a new philosophy or whatever. But yeah, I liked I liked some coaches and some coaches I didn't like as much. Whatever. Check.

One more note on this meeting with your predecessor. One of the things says, I'm not reading all of them. attempt to learn the long range goals and objectives of your predecessor. It is often difficult to alter the momentum or direction set by the commander, and you may not want to. I'm going to tell you it's going to be a hell of a lot easier. Whatever you can kind of resurface and continue with that they were maintained is going to be good. You know, unless it's some loser move, but you don't, obviously, you don't take the loser things.

You take something that seems positive, keep going. And then we get into the taking command part, fast, forward a little bit. It says, avoid referring to your past, specifically your credentials, which you feel qualify you for command. This is something we were just talking about this before we hit record today is when people kind of lead with their credentials, it's a red flag. I'm going to be straight up.

It's a straight up red flag. When someone explains to you, hey, I went to this school and I graduated with this degree and I got this qualification and I did this and that, nice to meet you, it's a red flag because there's something wrong with them. Like I'm going deeper than just like a leadership red flag. Like those people are weird, right? Those people, those people, they're insecure, right?

They're trying to prove themselves out of the gate. They feel insecure. They got to tell you what they've done in the past. When someone's just like, hey, good to meet you. I'm Fred. It's like, oh, cool. When someone's like, hey, I'm Fred. I went to Harvard.

I graduated this. I was a football captain. and I'm an Eagle Scout, and, you know, I've been, I did three combat deployments. You're like, okay, dude, great. You know what I mean? You just, God, you're like, I'm doomed. Like, this is going to suck. When someone's like, hey, I'm Fred, and you find out later that they went to Harvard,

you find out later that they had three combat deployments, you find out later that, you know, all that stuff, when you find it out later, you're like, oh, sweet. But when they front load your ass with that stuff, it's like, bro, this is going to suck. Yeah. I feel like there's some things, and actually, what do you think about this? where there's some occupations that maybe just part of the tradition or the culture they say like the title you know how like some doctors will do that

or like um yeah obviously there's some of that it's like just the formality of right right the formality yeah but but there's a huge difference okay yeah yeah that's a huge difference that's what i was wondering about your personal opinion where it's like are you how should i say do you notice that too yeah i do but i also notice when someone when i'm talking to someone for like 20 minutes and they're like well actually i am a doctor Yeah, you know what I suppose I'm like I mean I haven't I don't know if the last time I had a Person like introduced themselves as like doctor such and such right I don't know Maybe that's been a while yeah, but it's a red flag in my opinion if you have to lead with that stuff

It's a red flag if you're a person that wants to lead with that you feel like I'm compelled to do that don't do it I'm telling you it's so much better to not do it yeah and everyone will find out eventually that you went to Harvard and that you're an eagle scout and that you got caught everyone's gonna find it out eventually Yeah don't don't don't don't don't don't don't front load people with that yeah painful you're right there's a big huge difference between like just the title like the formal like title right you know like some people they have a formal you know like even judge you know like some judges where and then it's contextual as well like you're in some kind of formal like setting or something that leaves some people sometimes people kind of like like

the other people you know like I'll have people address me as like commander willing and first of all I wasn't a commander I was a lieutenant commander okay now Now people all the time, even in the military, will be like, it's like calling a lieutenant colonel, like sometimes just like, hey, the colonel said this, Lieutenant Commander, you know, it's not, it's not a violation when someone's like, hey, Commander Willink. Like I would respond to that all the time

while I was in if somebody called me that. What's the difference? One pay grade. Okay, so Lieutenant Commander is right before Commander. Yes, one is one before Commander. But it's not like some big violation, like stolen valor. Like, oh, they called the, you, Chaco's trying to be a commander. As a matter of fact, when I was going on deployment with Tasking to Bruser,

I was a lieutenant, which is an 03. And they're like, hey, they're like, just put, you can just, we're spot promoting you. But it's sort of like, it's not official. And I was like, hey, hold on a second. I'm not going to go interact with Marine Corps and Army Corps. Army officers and and be lying. That's bullshit. And so they gave me like an official.

They officially promoted me to that rank so I could be so I would be equivalent. Otherwise it's like, bro, I'll just be a lieutenant. It doesn't matter. I'm not going to go and like walk around because it's a big deal in the army and the Marine Corps. That's why I'm, that's why the SEAL teams are just, oh, you just, you know, just put it on. It's no, no, no.

It is a big deal in the army in the Marine Corps. Like that's a big deal. I'm not going to go and lie like meet a brigade commander. and have him find out somehow at some point, be like, wait a second, you're not even a freaking lieutenant commander, you're not a no four, you're lying?

Like that's horrible. So they gave me the legit promotion so I could do it because I was, you know, not going to be over there freaking lying to people. Yeah. So,

uh, yeah, kind of like the belts in you get to where you can't just roll up. You can't give a different belt. Yeah, you can't. Yeah, exactly. It'd be like if you were going to a school and I was like,

Hey, just, you know, just wear a black belt. You'd be like, bruh. You'd be like, no, no, no, no. It's not a big deal to whoever this karate guy is over here, but like in the jihitsu world, you just don't throw a black belt on. Shit ain't happening. Okay, so important early impressions. The way you come across two Marines initially will provide long-lasting impressions.

Some tips are. Set the example on personal appearance and behavior. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Look sharp. Now listen, don't don't get crazy. My goal in appearance is to nothing on me will cause you to think about my appearance.

Yeah, yeah. I don't, and that's in this looking in the military, there's a little bit of like, hey, you want to, you want them to look, you can go, oh, he's squared away. Yeah. Not just he's standard. You want a little bit more, a little bit like, oh, he's squared away. The only thing I'm showing you is that I'm squared away. I'm not trying to get you to look at me more. In the civilian sector, there's a lot of, hey, I want you to just look at me and notice me

because of my pants or my shoes or my whatever. It's like, no, no, no, no. Set the example, be squared away. Yeah, it feels like, I think you might even put it into these words long term. You want to look as good as you can without being distracting about it. Yes. And so it's like, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

And so with a uniform, like you just want that uniform to be super squared away. Yeah. personal appearance and behavior next one be honest be yourself yep otherwise they're gonna see through it avoid the my unit syndrome you have been getting given stewardship not ownership and an opportunity to serve those above and below you better that's a big red flag too now it's there is a little bit of a there's a little bit of a of a dichotomy here not a dichotomy there's a little bit of a different take because sometimes you'll hear a Marine or a soldier and there's a little

They're saying like, we don't do that in my platoon. You know what I mean? And they mean it in a good way. It's a good way of seeing it. But to be like, all right, gents, now that I'm the commander in my platoon, like, that's what we got to watch out for. Yeah. There's a different time.

There's like a positive ownership piece. Like, that shit ain't happening in my platoon. Like, we get that. Yeah. But in like, hey, we will be successful in my platoon. Oh, red flag. Right. So make sure you don't.

That's a very thin line. Yeah. Got to watch out for that one. There's that going, and I noticed that long time ago. I started noticing this where you're right. It's almost like a vibe. It's an intangible vibe where, okay, so, and this applies even outside of the military. So there was a, I went to a bar.

It was young. I don't know, 21, 22, whatever. Went to a bar and I was like, hey, do you have, it was a certain kind of tequila. And I was like, you know, I got, you know, I got this and I got that. I got this and I got that and he said he kept saying my whatever he wasn't the owner you just worked there you know but It seemed like he was kind of projecting like I'm the master of this domain, you know like this is my this or my or if it or so you didn't like it It was kind of off. I was like yeah it was too much yeah, but I've also had like let's say a waiter Be like oh I got a really good state right tonight and you're kind of fired up for it exactly right and it depends on the vibe

Watch out, though. So even a waiter could do it with the vibe of like, this is my, you know, like, it's just the vibe. See what I'm saying? It could go either way. So, man, I dig it, man. Gotta be careful. Take time to talk informally to the company executive. Let's talk to people for Sergeant, Platoon commanders.

Meet with platoon commanders on their turf. Let them do the talking. Boy, do we all have a problem with that. We want to get in their freaking yap, yap, yap, yap. Let them talk. Take the time to talk to the Marines. If they sense you have a genuine interest in their well-being, you'll find out what's on their minds.

Talk with your Marines, not down to them, obviously. Remember to exercise your listening skills more than your speaking skills. Your Marines want to tell you their concerns, problems, and accomplishments. This will be hard if you constantly dominate the conversation. Their one-on-one opportunities with their commanders are rare. Learn to listen. Isn't that interesting? the most underrated skill of leadership listening the most underrated skill of communication

listening the most underrated skill of decision making listening listen listen listen listen the most underrated way to earn respect listen the most underrated way to get people to listen to you listen the most underrated way to deal with someone that's frustrated listen the most underrated way to deal with someone that's angry listen The most underrated way to deal with someone that's sad. Listen. So true. Listen.

Remember that you are not the only one in the unit who wants it to succeed. Remember that a good sense of humor and consistency will make it easier for people to approach you. So in all just great points. Getting out to know your Marines or sorry, getting to know your Marines and it's just out of the gates like get out of your office whenever possible. You know, let your exo, your exo. executive officer, let him run the day-to-day stuff, you lead and command. You can't lead from behind your desk. Marines, this is a great line.

Marines are not in the unit. They are the unit. They want to get you to know you just as much as you want to get to know them. They will appreciate your efforts in breaking the ice. But it's really important to remember that no matter what you do, those guys are the unit. You have a company, the people in your company, you're the CEO of the company. you're a branch manager at your branch. Those guys are the branch.

Those guys are the company. And yes, you can influence them to behave a certain way, but it's them. Seek their opinions, listen to what they have to say. Reiterate to be careful not to talk down to them. That must be an issue that they run into from time to time. You know, you get done with the Naval Academy, you go to the basic school, you've been, you know, you're in the elevated position. You've been told the importance of your role.

It's kind of messed up, right? Because you're in a leadership position. Everyone's going to tell you, hey, this is the most important position. You're in a leadership position. You're taking care of these guys. They're your responsibility. You're going to get elevated head. You're going to get an elevated ego from that.

So you've got to be careful. Remember to tell them how much they are helping you to learn about your job. Always important. Participate in the events that they're doing, athletic events. Visit Marines or family members. members who are in the hospital make unannounced visits to the BEQ what's beke the bachelor's enlisted quarters this is where the young single Marines live dude Zach Bell veteran with a sign yeah his when he was on the podcast and he's

talking about when he showed up to his unit and they had just his unit had just gone back from Ramadi bro that was like classic classic BEQ scenario Like you are checking in you're living with your fire team. You know what I'm saying? You got your fire team leader is like in your room with you He's he's he's in the he's in the bottom bunk. This is this is Marine Corps activity right there So this is make unannounced visits to the BEQ You better be careful. You know give a little bit of ads up might be all right Talk to the Marines in the area Spent some time talking with the sometimes forgotten few the cooks the corpsmen mechanics let them know how important

they are to the unit. Addressing your Marines. Marines want to hear as well as see their commander. Take the first step in establishing good communications up and down the chain of command. Talk to troops as soon as possible after the change of command. Share the standards, goals, and philosophy of your command. This is like, you know, if you're doing this right, you can come out of the, come out of the gate with so much good information and off on the right foot. Talk to the entire unit at one time if you can and then address officers and NCO separately.

If your mission precludes this, the new. do it by platoons and really i think flipping that so that you kind of get you have some good conversations with the officers and ncos so that everyone's kind of on the same page because you might you might miss something and you're like hey we're going to be the we're going to be the hardest working guys here and you kind of miss the fact that these guys have been whatever on deployment working hard working extra hours you know whatever the case may be yeah and guys like bro Yeah, yeah. And so your senior leadership will be able to tell you that.

So just don't jump in with what you think is right, because it might not be right. It might not be right at that moment for the morale of the troops. Beware of heavy-handed my policies tone. Right? Makes sense. This is how we do it. This is how I do it.

New sheriff in town. Don't criticize your predecessor or his policies. Brilliant. You're going to make changes. Don't worry about you. You're going to call anybody out. Beware of making promises that you cannot deliver. Outstanding.

Take some action on the feedback you get. Solicited or volunteer. Not to do so. We'll injure your credibility. Don't let your Marines think that you want to hear what they have to say but never do anything about it. So yeah, when you take over, you got to set that reputation real quick. Oh, this is a problem.

Cool. Let's get it fixed. All good information for when you step into that role for the first time. It's good. Now he's talking about, and I'm going to skipping through, he talks about how you're interacting with the first sergeant, which is a unique thing in the military, where you have like a platoon chief and a platoon officer in the Marine Corps Army.

You have a platoon sergeant. You've got a company first sergeant, but you have a company commander. So you've got a unique relationship that you have to build. and it talks about that, especially the idea of just roles and responsibilities. Like, hey, this is what I need from you? What do you need from me?

Make sure that you have that figured out. Then when he talks about the, the kind of the platoon commanders and how we're going to develop relationships with the platoon commanders, get to know them, learn their strengths and weaknesses, develop a close-knit command team by establishing close working relationships

based on mutual trust and confidence. Again, sometimes people think building a relationship is going out to have a beer, or going out to lunch and that stuff. That's okay, it's fine. But you really build relationships with trustless and respect, influence, and care. You give those things to people,

and they give them back to you. If it works, if I put trust in you and you break my trust, now we're moving in the other direction. If I listen to you, but you don't listen to me, well, we got to get that sorted out. But we give these things in the beginning. Um, ensure that they swim and don't sink. Good point, right.

We don't mind guys struggling a little bit, but we don't want to watch them fail, especially in front of their troops. Remember that you have the responsibility to teach them and pass on experiences for their future benefit. Tell them what to do, not how to do it. Simple decentralized command mode, right? I'm not telling you exactly how to do everything. I just tell you what we need to get done.

Developing your platoon commanders is critically important. You cannot delegate this to anyone. Your company's performance, morale and command climate will depend on your platoon commander's performance. That's on you. That is 100% on you. You are responsible for your direct subordinates growth, right? You are responsible for their growth. Don't stifle their initiative.

Allow them to make mistakes that will not damage their careers. Ensure they don't make the same mistakes twice. Very good advice. When you are using decentralized command and you're, giving people the opportunity to grow, they're not going to be perfect. Do not stifle their initiative. Keep that in mind. Become the buffer between them and hire headquarters.

Keep the heat off them and let them do their jobs all day. Because listen, your commander's going to suck. The next echelon of command always sucks. The next echelon command is always terrible. That's what everybody says all the time. It's not going to be unique to you. Don't let your platoon commanders and your subordinate leadership feel that. Do your absolute best to buffer them.

Ensure they know what is expected to them. Consistently let them know how they're doing. Give them a straight shot to talk to you about things important to them, both good and bad. So they should be able to come to you and say, hey, this is a problem I got or this is what's going good. Don't overreact to their bad news. Killing messengers will keep them from telling you bad news in the future. Yeah, just don't overreact. How's that?

Just be chill. Just listen to what people have to say. include them in the decision-making process whenever possible. Avoid wasting their time with long-winded meetings which don't help them get their jobs done. However, there is great value in periodic commanders call sessions when the commanders sit down with their commander. They appreciate the exclusiveness and personal attention associated with this type of meeting. Yeah, the amount of meetings that happen globally that don't help anyone get their job done is criminal. And we need to do our best to put a stop for that.

Beware of fostering competition between them at the expense of destroying cooperation and teamwork, clearly. And that's real easy to do, especially in the business world where I'm going to get paid more if I beat you in this thing. I'm going to get promoted if I be, oh, got to work, got to be careful. See each of your commanders at least daily on their turf, not yours. Train and teach them to be better commanders. Don't be concerned with which one is best. Make each one the best that he can be. Check.

talking about the sergeant major get to know him he has years of experience obviously same thing with the battalion commander you want to understand what he expects from you you want to be clear on his standards and policies you want to give him an an update on what's happening anything that's significant let him know speak frankly to him about problems and issues that are bothering you yep but you know don't complain about a bunch of stuff you know if you have a legit problem and you've tried to solve it and you need some guidance the legitimate guidance cool and here's what I'm proposing to do does this make sense am I doing the right thing don't just don't just go in there and blabber your mouth complaining about stuff that's not a good not a good move

and then there's a little section in here on um checking facilities which is just like hey you take over it's like taking over a company and you got to go and make sure that What you're taking over is squared away, right? So yeah, you want to go make sure that the freaking bathrooms work and get the printers that you need or whatever the case may be And then we get into chapter two by the way, we're only covering two chapters this. There's a whole bunch more Um leading the company Leadership is an essential skill for an effective company commander our 29th commandant General A. M. Gray who he did a podcast on.

Grayisms defines leadership as the art of getting things done through people. Leadership is a skill that can be learned through study, observation, and practical experience. It is the most essential element of combat power on the battlefield and therefore your most important concern in peacetime. Your goal is to demonstrate competent and confident leadership and to develop that same leadership in your subordinates. In the words of General Gray, it is going to take bold, innovation, innovative, and aggressive leadership to overcome the complexities of the modern battlefield. Only this kind of leadership exercised by both the commander and his staff will provide purpose, direction, and motivation in combat.

At all levels of command, leaders must be men of character. They must know and understand their people and the physical tools of battle. They must act with courage and conviction. Their primary function is to inspire and motivate their people to do difficult things in trying circumstances that's general gray one thing that the warning here you must demonstrate competent and confident leadership well if you don't feel confident about something don't try and fake it raise your hand and say hey i don't know how to do this what does that take what does it take for me to say hey echo i've never done this kind of mission before can you help me out what does that take

Humility. It takes humility, yes. It also surprisingly, shockingly, takes confidence. Humility and confidence aren't like opposites. They're related. They're related. The opposite of the opposite of competence is incompetence, right? Like, hey, I don't know how to do this.

The opposite of competence isn't like I'm going to make, I'm going to pretend that I know what I'm doing. Right. So humility and confidence. Confidence, even though they're not opposites. The opposite of confidence is not humility. It's not, even though it seems that way. Yeah, that humility is kind of part of a greater confidence, right? Like, secureness.

Yes. When someone's insecure, they never ask for help. Right. I don't want to plead the God. I don't admit that. No, when you're really confident, you're like, oh, hey, I've never done this before. You have to have the confidence. You have to be humble enough.

You have to have the confidence to show humility. Yeah. It's a very bizarre relationship. The Marine officer's guide defines leadership as leadership is a heritage which has passed from Marine to Marine since the founding of the Corps. It has been defined as the art of influencing and directing men so as to obtain their obedience, respect, confidence, and loyal cooperation. Leadership is mainly acquired by observation, experience, and emulation. Although some individuals possess greater instinctive gifts of leadership than others, anyone can share. sharpen his leadership facilities if he tries now what's interesting here is it says obedience right

and that kind of like triggers me a little bit right because so often i talk about you know we want pushback but there is no doubt that if you are leading correctly you when needed you will get it will be you will need there will be times when you need obedience in any organization in any organization Could be business like hey echo get this done right now like that is I don't need I would say that you once every eight years Echo do this right now I would need obedience by the way It goes in both directions too because there's the times where your subordinates are gonna go boss We need this right now and I need to obey

Yeah, yeah feels like it should be fueled by trust and not tricking fear. Oh, it should be fueled by trust not a thought not rank yeah um par the the another primary goal of leadership is the objective of marine corps leadership is to develop the leadership qualities of marines to enable them to assume progressively greater responsibilities to the core and society bro it's going societal at this point in north china 1937 captain samuel b griffith said wars and battles are not lost by private soldiers they win them but they don't lose them they are lost by commanders staffs and troop leaders and they are often lost long before they start so responsibilities of leaders responsibility leaders this is an important thing number one successful completion of the

assigned mission that's the number one thing you're responsible for sometimes you know at echelon front we always have to make sure we go get the job done mission accomplishment execute the task. That's part of leader. In fact, that's what leadership is there for. The fundamental responsibility of leaders is to successfully complete the mission. The mission of your unit is the only reason for the existence of the unit and its commanders. All other obligations are secondary.

However, all leaders must be positive as to how this mission is accomplished. Marines and or their careers must not needlessly be sacrificed for the sake of accomplishing the mission. I wasn't quite sure. I'm not sure how to read this. Marines and or their careers. I understand Marines must not be needlessly sacrificed for the accomplice of the mission. I get that.

But how would we be sacrificing our career for a mission? And actually, I think the opposite is true. Sometimes people are executing the mission for their careers. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. Which is not a good move. Number two, responsibility to hire headquarters.

While responsibility to accomplish the mission is paramount inherent, in the unit's mission is a leader's responsibility to higher headquarters. There are two parts to this. Strict compliance and vigorous execution of all legal orders, directives, policies, regulations that decisions received from higher headquarters. And two, inspiring confidence in higher headquarters. If a subordinate leader openly criticizes his superiors, he can expect the same from his Marines.

Subordinate leaders should discuss those things that they disagree with in orders from higher headquarters with their superiors. However, if the decision still stands after the discussion, the subordinate must provide complete support. Now, wrote about this in leadership training tactics. There are going to be times where I tell Echo to do something that's stupid. And Echo has the conversation with me and he can't make any progress and I'm like, no, do this dumb thing. No, do it. I told you to do it.

I'm in charge, go do it. Now you don't turn around to your troops and say, hey, guys, this is what we're doing. Jocko came up with this plan and we're going to go execute it and think that they're all going to go, Wait a second. They're not going to see that it's stupid. Nope. And you already push back. You already say, hey, boss, I don't know if this is the right way.

Hey, here's another course of action. Look, no, do it my way. You have to approach that with your troops in a delicate manner to not, to not give the impression that you didn't push back, that you think that this is the best way when it clearly isn't. It's like, hey, guys, I'm not 100% sure why the boss wants us doing it this way, but here's what we're going to do. I obviously haven't learned earned enough trust from him yet. What we're going to do is we're going to execute this to the best

of our ability. We're going to try and pull it off. If at a worst case scenario, it doesn't work, I'm at least going to have feedback for him and explain to him what went wrong and what other elements we need to make this work. And best case, I'll be able to, we will get it done and I'll be able to say, hey, sir, we got it done. Here's a couple things that would have made it even smoother. And he's going to trust me more and he'll listen to me more. That kind of approach is pretty positive.

you've got to be very careful because even that, if you're not careful with that right there, everyone goes, oh, so this is a dumb plan and they won't do it vigorously. So this is definitely an area where we have to use caution.

If you think that the troops don't see when something is stupid, you're wrong. They're going to see it. So be careful of that. Generally speaking, if I tell Echo to take his troops and do something stupid,

and you go. Hey boss, let me make sure. Is it what you want me to do? I'm going to take casualties. We're not going to be able to get it done. I'm going to lose this manpower, whatever. And I go, oh, I didn't know all that. Hold on a second.

Can you find a better way? Yes. That's 99% of the time what happens. By the way, when it doesn't happen, there's something else at play that I don't see. Or that you don't, that I don't see as a subordinate. Well, my boss is telling me to do something that makes no sense. I'm going to try and ask as many questions I can to try and figure it out.

Usually there's some strategic thing that I don't understand. Like, oh. They wanted us to take out this, they want us to take out this, this observation post, this enemy observation post, it's in a very difficult spot. It's going to be really challenging.

Hey, boss, we don't have the manpower for this. It's just a distraction. We're just putting you out there. Okay, cool. Now I understand. So just be careful of that. Obviously,

you're responsible for training your troops, training, maintenance, administration, all that. Welfare of Marines. Leaders earn trust, confidence, and cooperation by looking after the needs of their Marines. Those needs include satisfying the security, physical, and social needs of the individual. Primarily, the leader is responsible for ensuring that the Marine is trained satisfactorily and performs

the job assigned competently. Marines also have personal problems of both a military and family nature. The leader must recognize these. He must make himself and the chain of command available to counsel Marines when they have these problems. Then he must ensure that unit leaders work with the Marines toward solid. solving those problems. Welfare of Marines.

Got to take care of your people. Balance all of the leader's responsibilities, the responsibility to his remains. Of all the leader's responsibilities, the responsibility to his remains is by far the most satisfying. As the leader works with and trains his Marines, a strong sense of loyalty can develop. It better develop.

This loyalty can conflict with the leader's responsibility to the mission. The commander cannot be over. Overly protective of his Marines when directed to order them into combat or to make them work beyond their endurance It is difficult for a good leader to suppress the feeling for his men at times when he must plan for their possible death This is the opening chapter of the dichotomy of leadership You care about these individuals more than anyone in the world and you are literally sending them all missions where they may get killed That is a very difficult thing to do Here it talks about the foundations of leadership

Number one, authority. Authority is the legitimate power of a leader to direct those subordinates to get him to act within the scope of his position. The commander delegates his power or part of it in his name by extending to his leaders regardless of their rank. Now, is that for real? It is a thing. I do have rank over you and therefore I can use my authority. And that can be the foundation of leadership. Is it really truly the foundation of leadership?

No, it's not. It's not. The foundation of leadership is the respect, the trust, the listen, the influence, and the carrots, the relationships that you build. That's where the real leadership is. That's where the real leadership is, up down and across the chain and command. That's where it is. That's the true foundation.

What do you do to earn the respect of your troops? Do you listen to them? Are you influenced by them? And when you have a good relationship, you will. have the the primal authority again go back and listen to that judgment podcast that we did literally the last podcast that we did what 549 we talked about this very thing you have authority but the the real authority the primal authority is a different scenario than just what's on paper and what's on your collar and your rank or something more powerful

of that. And by the way, all the advice that they're giving in this is going to elevate your primal authority. But one thing that diminishes your primal authority is when you walk around thinking that your rank gives you authority. It doesn't. It gives you a little bit, a little tiny bit. Don't rely on it too much. Responsibility. Responsibility is at all levels of command for what Marines do or fail as well as the physical assets under the commander's control. Ultimately, all Marines are morally and legally responsible for their individual actions. Right. So this does give you, when I am responsible for everything and I take ownership of everything,

yes, that absolutely gives you a foundation of leadership. When everyone knows, like, this is a jockless ass right here. Accountability is the reckoning wherein the leader answers for his actions and accepts the consequences, good or bad. Accountability is the very cornerstone of leadership. Yes. Accountability is the final act in establishing one's credibility. Yeah, you blame other people.

You're not going to have credibility. Plainly speaking, the accountable leader is saying the buck stops here. Remember, accountability results in rewards for good performance as well as punishment for poor performance, obviously. Values. The values are the benchmark for leadership. We got benchmark. We got cornerstone benchmark.

and foundation. Values are the benchmark for leadership. They are guides to our thinking and our behavior and that of our subordinates. If a Marine is left without any guidance or supervision, his personal values will determine what he will or will not do. Facts. And this is really important when it comes to kids.

Establishing good values with your kids so that when they're, you know, late night, peer pressure, illegal things happening, legal things happening, crazy things happening, decisions being made, you're not there. You are not there. And their values are going to make their decision for them. Leaders must provide guidance and supervision to inspire and control their Marines. As a leader, you have the power to influence the beliefs and values of your Marines

by setting the example by rewarding behavior that supports military values and attitudes and by planning and conducting tough individual collective training. So I've got some interesting documents that I might be getting into on the podcast, but the changes that happen to people in boot camp, psychological changes. Because hopefully your psychological value system changes somewhat because you're like a dirt bag bum going into boot camp and you come out squared away Marine or a squared away sailor or squared away soldier. That's what that's what can happen.

Your values should be inculcated into you. So it gets into here personal values. Can you identify your own values by examining your own behavior? Think through the following questions. What is important to me personally? What do I stand for? What activities do I spend my time on? What values do I admire and others?

To what or whom do I attribute those values? How do I impart values or beliefs on others? Again, go back and listen to the last podcast about judgment Because we start talking about, I forget what I called them in the podcast, universal, universally recognized values that are positive, right? Integrity, doing what you say, discipline. Like all those things are universally recognized, by the way. So you should figure out where you are. Where are you at?

And that kind of flows right into your unit values. Like, what is your unit all about? And it says the following values are critical to the development of effective marine units. Integrity, trust, loyalty, justice, self-service, and courage. Again, these are all straight out of the list of people. We're all getting judged on these things. Do you respect when somebody doesn't do what they say they're going to do? No.

Do you respect somebody when they break their trust? They lie to you? No. When they stab you in the back and not loyal to you? No. When they do something, when they're picking on somebody that doesn't deserve it, no. When they do something that's selfish, no.

When they are a coward, of course. Like these are values, these are universally accepted and respected values. So you have to have them individually. Leadership traits in trying to learn and to develop your leadership abilities and those of your Marines spend some time studying the traits of great marine leaders.

Remember, the way you see yourself may not be the way way your Marines actually see you. Again, go back and listen to the last podcast. As you study this self-evaluation checklist, be honest with yourself. Step back and see yourself as your Marines see you. How do you measure up as a leader? And it's got, they've got some pretty good things to, to judge yourself on, bearing. Setting and maintaining high standards and appearance and personal contact. Do you do that? Avoid excessive use of profamity. Do you do that? Controlling your temper, do you do that?

Keeping your word, do you do that? So all these things are bearing. Again, these can fall right into the judgment thing that we covered on the last podcast. Courage, taking risks in combat and in peace, acting calmly and firmly in stressful situations, standing up for what is right, regardless of what others think,

accepting personal responsibility for your orders and for your mistakes, making on the spot corrections of Marines who need correcting. allowing your subordinates do their best jobs and make decisions. It mentioned temper there. And it kind of seems like in the military, this, I don't know, if it's performative or what, but it kind of seems like, then again, I'm going off the movie. I was going to say, this is your military assessment of military Hollywood shitty movies.

You know, like losing their temper, you know, like, you know, did the guy get, what was I watch? A few good men. I was watching a few good men the other day. And, you know, my man was losing his temper many times. It was kind of dope, to be honest with you. Hollywood, bro. Hollywood. Hollywood.

Well, it was the last time you lost your temper. Including printers and fax machines? Like, actually lost your temper. Yeah, including. I did have a printer failure. I got a new printer, by the way. And I made it work by myself because my wife was out of town. So I was, like, in charge of IT.

Solid, solid. It's been a long time, man. Do you remember any instance that you've lost your temper, even way in the past or whatever? It's been a long, long, long time. I lost my temper the other day. What was it? I only remember two times in my whole life that I lost my temper. What happened, though?

Well, this is totally understandable. I was at the park. We were riding me and my son. He's nine riding our bikes. And it's a park where the dogs are allowed, but they got to be on the leash. And some people, they take their dogs off a leash. which, you know, it's kind of one of those things where you take your dog off the leash,

the thing mind its own business, or you have full control over your dog, no one's going to like, or trip, right? And it's not a super crowded park either. It's actually super mellow. This is kind of like just, this is kind of a standard park in San Diego, California.

They're all kind of like that. Yeah, like, I understand. You got a dog, because I go to dog parks, you know, with my dogs, you got a dog, it's cool. Like, no one cares. It's off the leash. No, everyone's all good.

Clean up after the dog, for the love of God. But yeah, it's pretty. So you're in the standard kind of park. Is it a high frequency dog park? Nope. It's like a, if you got five dogs there, that's a crowd today.

And this is full, like consider a whole football field size. Okay. It's huge. So we go there, we ride the bikes up there, and we play football and stuff like that. And so we ride onto the park, and this German Shepherd dude, by the way, starts chasing my son on the thing.

And we don't know, like with his mouth open, open. At this point, I'm like, we didn't know if the dog's like what he's doing. You know, it's straight up chasing him. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And my son's nine. So he's scared. This freaking huge ass black, you know the ones with a black face? They look extra scary. Hey, bro. A German shepherd chasing a nine-year-old kid is not, is a is a horrific situation. Yes. That is like there is a, there is a, I don't want to put a probability, a percent of chance on it. There is a not small chance

that this kid is about to get bit. Now listen, would a person that has a crazy dog like that have it off the leash in the park? Most likely not. But do dogs are dogs. Dogs are animals. Yep. Correct. And I've never seen that guy before. Oh, then that's definitely.

Yep. Yep. Sure. Um, I've never seen that dog there. And it had a black face and freaking German shepherd. And it's running chasing. Not the kind like it chased for a little bit and then left. It was chase and my son's like, bro, and he put it on turbo and he's going. He's trying to, you know, all the dogs chasing him, chasing him, chasing him. And I'm like, brother, this dog's not stopping. Like it's for real. And my son is slowly, I can see him getting

more scared and more scared. I said, hey, follow me. Because he's kind of maneuvering out maneuvering the dog a little bit. So I was like, we'll go by the owner and the owner will grab the dog. Is you what I'm saying? And my son, by the time we got over to the owner, he's scared. This is panic mode already. He just flies past the owner. I stopped by the owner. And he flies past the dog just keeps chasing him. And to the point where I'm like, bro, Mike, he's gonna crash. That's how fast he's going. He's going over bumps and all this stuff.

And so I'm like, oh man. So I'm yelling at him, hey, like stop. Come over here and stop or whatever, but he's already in panic mode going. And that when I felt, that's when I felt myself like, hoosh, kind of like losing it or whatever. So I fly over there. The owner's running kind of next to me a little bit. And he's like, why won't he stop to like me about my son? It's your fault.

Yeah, yeah. And I was like, and I just cussed him out. We finally get there. The dog stopped because another person who was coming with their dog and the dog kind of like maneuvered and looked. And the lady like was like to my son, he was like, is that your dog? Like what hell is up with your dog? And he's like, no, it's not my dog. It's just chasing me or whatever.

And she's like, oh my gosh. And the dog's kind of. And the owner runs over there or whatever. And he's like saying this and that. He's like, oh, he has a prey drive and all this stuff. And I did lose my temper. just cussed the guy out and he was like doing some weird stuff like he's just being weird you know like kind of like he's trying to control his temper or whatever it was kind of a scene for sure

and then um he was like he kind of calmed down he was like oh you want me to leave you know I told him a bunch of stuff like yeah I see you failed to observe the old leash or whatever all this stuff like control your dog kind you know like bro you can't like we've been coming to this park for like 15 years before my son was even born. And freaking he comes up there with his freaking dog, freaking chasing everybody, all this stuff, right? Can't control this dog, you know? Really has no,

he should not have been there, you know, kind of a thing. But anyway, it was super ugly. And I remember thinking, dang, I don't think I've ever lost the temper. When you say you lost your temper? Yeah, yelling at him and was. Was any of that was any of that performative? No, that's the thing. And I've done the performative thing.

Okay, okay. Oh, freak yeah. At the club? Oh, hell yeah. Oh, when you were a bouncer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the performative temper loss. No, this was the kind of like, for real afterwards, I was like, bro, I was like out of control because I was ready to fight. Yeah, I did a performative temper loss, like, I remember one time in the SEAL teams. Like somebody did someone, I was like, okay, and I had already talked to him about it.

And I was like, oh. And then as I was talking to him, they were like acting like, this was no big deal. And I was like, oh, time for me to performatively lose my temper. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's that's way different to be performing. Yeah, yeah, no, that's why I asked you to specify. Yeah. Because if you were just, then it's still, that's not losing your temper.

Like to performatively yell someone like that's, that's, that's, that's not losing your temper. There was a, but you, you uncontrollably like just started yelling at this dude. Yeah. Yeah. And swearing itself, which was weird because I remember thinking like, are you know how you almost have this weird out of body experience? Like, I'm like, bro, I'm cussing this guy out like full. volume and my son was like right there he was happy he was like freaking yeah freak this guy freak his dog like and then finally after everything calmed on he's like he's like well you want me to leave you want me to um take him away or whatever like take the dog away you know and i and i said yeah yeah and then he like kind of got his girlfriend how big was this dude

he was like tall scrap would have been good scrap oh i don't know i don't know if he was trained or what but if he was untrained no no i would have smashed him easy easy money I wasn't worried about that. It's been a long time since I legitimately lost my temper. I'm thinking, too, if I, I'm thinking it's not going to be towards humans. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like I think, like maybe I was, you know, doing something with some piece of gear.

Right. And be like, like, yeah. Like, even that is pretty rare. But I'm more apt to do that than like, than, like, then have a person make me mad. Yeah, I agree with you so much because most of the time, like, I feel like when people elicit,

or I don't know, if they do some behavior that causes maybe a normal quote, quote, normal person, whatever that even means, to lose their temper. I feel like you kind of win when you don't lose your temper. It's really like the front running feeling that I have or whatever. The only time I think,

and I think this kind of goes for everyone, no matter kind of who you are, this is the formula is like, when you feel like you're out of control of this situation, when you have lost control of the situation, then you lose your temper. And some people, when they have short tempers or whatever,

I feel like just generally speaking, they don't have control of their situation, you know, kind of thing, just mentally, you know, kind of a thing. It always comes off like that anyway. So yeah, yeah, like with people, it's not very hard to just act right in life. To me anyway,

so when people are not acting right and maybe might cause other people lose their temper, I'm like, this is just a person not acting right, you know, kind of thing. But that dog and the thing just wouldn't stop. And like I said, like I thought he was going to get really hurt, whether it be from the dog or crashing. Yeah.

If he crashed, then the dog bites him. Oh, yeah. It was a little, little emergency scenario. And then the guy like, yeah, when he would yell at it in, he was yelling at my son, kind of like, we were doing something wrong. And he's the one that guy. You know, like it. I think, and this is in hindsight, you know, it's. I've had, you know, weird like weird people yell at me or whatever.

you know, whether it was traffic or whatever, you know. I'm trying to think, oh, I ran by someone and they were like, as if they were going to die. Oh, actually, I know what it was. It was during COVID. And I was on a run. And, like, I was not wearing a mask or following social distancing, right? And I was running on a cliff. area and as I was running like there was a guy dude I mean I'm out running and this dude has

three masks on and a face shield or whatever and I didn't I didn't really I was just like God what wouldn't weirdo and as I'm running like he he thought I had boobonic plague that was going to cause instant death if I went by him and he like kind of freaking tried to scramble to get six feet from me and then you know I heard the you know I just again Like I just kept running you know I wasn't like I didn't even respond I don't even think I respond to people Like I don't think I even respond like when I'm driving in I do like some someone like whatever Something happens and someone honks at me I literally just completely ignore them yeah and just keep doing whatever I'm doing Yeah fully someone's gonna have to like someone's gonna have to pit maneuver me you know just freaking knock me

For me to get me to like respond to them. Even then I probably like re-attack. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I'm with you. And I think just because I was always mellow or whatever. Like it's not that serious. Most things in my life have thankfully not been that serious.

So yeah. The brother, the performative lose temper thing or whatever I did that one. It's fun. You know, Terry, right? Big sexy. He was there. And this guy kept like, you know how people?

Okay, you ever heard of loud talking? You ever heard that expression? Like, instead of me telling you how I feel, I'll just say it over here, off to the side and make sure you can hear it. Because it's almost like this in-between or confrontation. So it was like he was kind of doing that, but in a weird way where he was talking to me, talking about I'm from Chicago and I'm this and I'm that, but not in a way that was saying, therefore, I'd do something to you. But he's saying it to me. And he kept getting closer and closer and like kind of. lumping me or whatever.

It was just more annoying than anything, but yeah, I wasn't losing my temper at all, but then I was just kind of tired of it or whatever. And then yeah, I acted like I lost my temper. Okay, you just reminded me of something. This wasn't a temper loss, but it was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, loud talking.

So I'm on a hike with my family. Oh yeah, yeah. I know the story. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. We get to the most beautiful place, both of both, like what, hey, I'm not kidding one of the most beautiful places on planet earth one and it took you know four hours to get

their hiking our kids you know everyone's hot tired get up there there there's a beautiful like uh you know it's part of the waterfall scenario but the water wasn't running too much where it's just a it's just a majestic majestic swim we're gonna go swim and we we we find a nice little little spot and we kind of set up there we're gonna you know go in the water and everything and all all of a sudden I smells just smoke, cigarette smoke. And sure enough, not eight feet away on the other side of like a rock, there's this freaking family, or not family, but a group. And they're from Europe.

And they're all just sitting there smoking cigarettes. And I just was like, you know, hey. I'm like, oh, that's great. That's beautiful. Hey, can you blow some of that over? I was just doing that kind of shit. Because it really was a bummer. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And yeah. And then I crawled over the rock and I like sat down next to him and I started doing like wafting smoke. I was like, oh, this is so nice. This is beautiful. I love this carcinogenic just into my look. Can you blow that towards me a little bit more?

And these people were meanwhile are horrified. Like they might get chopped up and thrown into the river themselves. But I was definitely, I didn't like lose my temper but I was really, I was really, I was really like pissed. I was like, are you serious right now? You guys traveled up here.

You traveled, you walked up here, and you're going to sit here and smoke four cigarettes in a group. Are you serious right now? Yep. That pissed me off. Yeah, like an anger-driven confrontation. It seemed like, in a way, it seemed like I could find a way where slapping them all would be appropriate.

Like, you know what I mean? I didn't do it, but I could see like walking up to him be like, take a cigarette out of their mouth, smack them in the face. Like you're so You're so lost In what you're doing right now That you should remember this And you need a spanking

Right in your face I didn't do it I'm not gonna provoke this you know Physicality like all that stuff But maybe that would have been the right thing to do It is just like hey slap Turn around slap Turn around slap turn around slap

And then put out their cigarettes On their faces No on the ground And be like, you know, this is a no smoking area. That would have been good, right? This is a no smoking area. After I told you about my one friend that took a guy's cigarette from his mouth

and shoved it up his nose. Yeah, yeah. So like that would have been a little over the top. Yeah, a little bit. That guy dropped when that friend of mine did that. That guy dropped as if he'd been shot in the head with a 300 windbag. Just like, boom, just fell to the ground.

Oh, like, like, like it was just so reactive. No, shit. When my friend took the cigarette out of his mouth and in the most Bruce sleeve right up his nose, direct hit. Oh, brother. That must be painful. Your nose.

The dude just collapsed. Yeah, that's weird. So. It's interesting. Yeah. Don't lose your temper. Yeah, the, um, if you can avoid it. I understand, brother, that,

and I remember that story too. And I was like, bro, I feel you so much because like, certain things are like, and it's kind of one of those things where it makes you even more frustrated that it's kind of that, gray area, you know?

Like if something is a clear violation, you know you can go over there and be like, hey, you can handle it in whatever way. You can be nice about it. You can be mean about, whatever. It's all justified, very clear,

cut and dry. See what I'm saying? But it's like one of those things where people are just flagrantly ruining your time and kind of a lot of other people's time. And it's like, shoot, man, what do I do?

And you just get ads to it. You got kids. Bro. Little kids. They're breathing hard. And here we are. Breathing in your stuff. Not cool.

Cricking tar. Check. Decisiveness. Studying your alternatives and making the best possible course of action. Obviously, picking alternatives and making decisions quickly. And I make a recommendation. Use the iterative decision making process. Knowing when not to step in to make a decision.

Important quality. Dependability. Being places on time or when you say you will be there and meeting deadlines for tasks that you've been ordered to do. Completing the, It's just dependability. Endurance, maintaining mental and physical stamina, having the ability to perform your duties under stress

and for prolonged periods of time. I had a good level of that. Very lucky. It has to be somewhat genetic to just be able to stay awake and keep going for a long time. That's definitely respected. And it's something that you,

I think, I don't know if you can prepare for it, but I think you can like, lock in. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's time to lock in. This is my hypothesis about it. Where if you

formal or informal, if you kind of teach yourself or train yourself to disregard your lack of sleep to just kind of disregard it and truly regard it as a non-factor, you can do it.

There's been times when you've come to record the podcast and you've been like after the podcast, you said, yeah, I got an hour and a half sleep, or I didn't sleep last night. So even Echo Charles, you know, could be like, all right, I'm just going to walk in. Right. So within the past, I'd say three years maybe or whatever, for various reasons, I came up with that hypothesis. That like, because sometimes I'll forget that I didn't get good sleep.

And I'll be like, I really don't feel like working out. But whatever I work out, that's what I do. you know, whatever, how I feel, and I'll work out. And then I'll remember, oh, wait, I didn't get good sleep. But it wasn't a factor during the workout. I did the full workout, full effort, like the whole thing. You see what I'm saying? So if lack of sleep was really that bad, I don't think I would have got the workout.

And it's happened many, many, many times. And, you know, sometimes I'd forget that I didn't get good sleep. Sometimes I'd remember and just disregard it and be like, no, we're still working out. We're still doing this thing or whatever. And it's one of those things where, and I actually read this, where if you, you can trick yourself into thinking you got rest and you can trick yourself into thinking you didn't get good rest. So like if you're like, oh yeah, I can't really function with five hours of sleep. If you tell yourself that, your body kind of accommodates you. But if you're like, oh, I don't care. No factor kind of

thing. And then over time, then it's truly no factor. Yeah. Literally no factor. Yeah. Maybe that's where I'm at. Yeah. For so long I was like, no factor. Maybe, yeah. Maybe I made that my identity

and therefore it's just like who I am. I thought that before. I have seen like friends of mine that when they get tired, it's a breakdown. Yeah, you know what I mean?

It's like, it's like a breakdown. I've literally been like that in my lifetime for a long time. For sure. And I, it's like I have convinced myself, no,

no, I need to go take a nap. I need to get my, that one, two hours sleep back. Otherwise, I can't function. I've like consciously, like, thought that before. And now you decided otherwise.

No factor. No factor. But, yeah, the only concern about not getting enough sleep is the health stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, look, hey, if everyone, if you're freaking out right now, get sleep, sleep is good for you. In the book leader, in the book, Discipline goes freedom field manual. I said get sleep. Rest is good for you.

Got to recover all that stuff. But if you got to push through some shit, you can make it happen, dude. You're, no big deal. You're going to die. You are correct. Yeah, and that's why I think yours is. Genetic because you're you don't have health issues. Yeah and I there's been times where I've been like oh Whatever situation I'm in don't don't I can sleep until whenever and usually like six hours of sleep

You know go to bed at 10 wake up at 4.30 in the morning that's whatever six and a half hours of sleep That's kind of what I need. That's kind of what I need So yeah good to know um enthusiasm what a good quality right consistently communicating a positive attitude to your Marines never complaining in front of your Marines about they or the system praising your Marine success explaining to your Marines where why they must perform tasks expected of them of them in terms they can understand except dude just be positive just be positive it's so easy to reframe things positively I think there's a saying of like good yeah there's no

You know what I mean? So things went wrong. Good. We got an opportunity. I think that's a real thing that you can really do. Initiative, you know, take action. Be a self-starter, plan ahead. Always look to improve things.

Integrity. Telling the truth to both your superior and your Marines. Yep. Using your authority as a commander to work toward the mission accomplishment, not personal gain or glory. Yep. Encouraging honest and open communication in your company. You kind of just glossed over that self-starter thing.

I truly do believe that's a harder thing for most people. Oh, 100%. Yeah, then it sounds. Like self-starters, are you a self-starter? Fuck, yeah, all day. I am, bro. No, we're not. Fuck, most of us are not.

And most of us know that it's like, when you just think about it for a second, it's hard to like self-start. Yeah. Self-start. It is a big deal. When you got self-starters, man, so nice on your team.

Just prop them up and let them run. Yeah. Because most people you're saying are not and you're right. Most people are not. It's not normal. Judgment. Being able to weigh facts and get solutions. Taking all sides of an issue into consideration before making a decision that affects your Marines.

Yep. Being a calm, but not just calm, but being level-headed, right? Not getting swayed by this or that. That's what we're doing. Just good, solid judgment. Knowledge, making sound, talk. decisions, doing all duties well, showing your Marines how they should perform their duties, recognizing correcting inadequate performances of your Marines. Listen, are you always going to be able

to do some job that someone else does better than them? No, you're not. You're not. This isn't saying you've got to be able to do the job better, right? But you better at least know about the job that they're doing. Tacked, talking with your Marines, not at them. It's the third time we're seeing that. Speaking to your Marines with the same respect that you would expect. Hmm. Remember that one. Treat people with respect. So I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

So that notion, but with your kids. So a lot of people, and it's subtle sometimes and sometimes it's flagrant, but a lot of times we don't talk to her. I try to, but we don't talk to our kids the way we would want people to, you know, like you're, like people are not polite to their kids sometimes. I'm going to tell you right now. I'm gonna tell you right you're 100% right the trustless and respect influence and care that I teach for building relationships with employees with bosses with adults with peers with all those people it 100% 100% is applicable to your kids and for some reason we we we we carve out kids and be like oh no that doesn't apply to them it 100% applies to them you want your kids to treat you with respect treat them with respect you want them to listen to you listen to them you want them to have influence You want to have influence over them? You better allow them to influence you.

If you do this, it is going to be infinitely better. If you think you can command respect because you're the dad. Yeah. No. Yeah, sure, you can force them to do the dishes. They'll be pissed at you. This is a kid that's going to end up freaking doing things that they shouldn't be doing. Yeah.

When you're not around to impose your will on them. But if you teach them those good values. And you do that by building a good relationship. They're going to emulate your values. You. And how you talk? to people how you know like it's that's something that I'm so glad that I listened to what I did this thing since the beginning I don't know I mean so far so good but you never know so my kids

always and they still do it literally since they're super small until now they'll be like hey what could I possibly do to make you mad I was like Brian in theory nothing because anything you do is my fault like something I did or failed to do it's like it's kind of my fault I was like And they're like, what, really? What about? And they think of stuff. I was like, yeah, but you think you would ever do it? Like, what if I stole something from the store?

I was like, would you ever steal something from the store? They're like, don't way. So it's kind of like, you know, it's like one of those things. Like I said, I don't know, maybe I didn't think it fully through, but I've maintained it and so far so good. Like the end and they kind of like trust me, you know, when they make a mistake or they do something they think is bad or what, especially my daughter. Like she'll be like, let's say she's on a group chat or something. And I'm like, oh, who are you talking to? And then she won't mention maybe one of the,

this actually happened in the past, she didn't mention one of the people on the group chat. Just because I don't know, maybe I was, maybe didn't. Maybe didn't. She believed that maybe I didn't want her to talk into this person. Just her friends, whatever. Just her innocent mind or whatever. So she omitted that person.

And then a few, like, hours later, she's like, she tells her mom like, oh my gosh, I didn't tell dad, I lied. And she's like all sad and guilty. I was like, actually good on you, you know, for that because like lying by omission is the actual thing but she came on her on her own it's not like mom told me and then I was like hey you didn't you know it wasn't that you know she kind of on her own freaking told on herself because she didn't feel right about it yeah and it was like getting to her yeah it's funny my kids would like tell me

something you know something that was you know there's everything went to a party and people were drunk or whatever like and they wouldn't tell necessarily my my, their mom, my wife, big H. Big H, right. You know, because she might be a little bit more hectic. Right, right, right. Yeah, that's right what I mean. Yes, I do.

But I would be like, oh, yeah, yeah, you know, even to the point where I'd be like, oh, anyone throw up. Right, right. Like, oh, yeah, this girl flew up and she, she was like stumbling. They would kind of tell me what was up. And so that's because, you know, the trustless and respect and influencing care. Yeah. And, yeah, if, if you earn their trust.

if you think you're earning their trust by freaking out when they tell you something, like that doesn't, it's not a good move. Yeah. Not a good move. Yeah, even like the day-to-day stuff where,

and this is just what I noticed and I'm not judging at all. And by no means, am I saying I'm like, the greatest parent, nothing like this. But like, you know,

just your normal day-to-day telling your kids to do stuff, you know, whether it be chores or brush your teeth or, you know, it's bedtime, whatever,

the normal stuff or whatever. Like, I feel like a lot of, lot of times old witness parents talk to the kids like kind of more mean than they would someone else you know like their friend or something like if you're like hey hey take out that trash that trash has been sitting there for a while like would you ever talk to your friend your neighbor or you like that you know or would you just sort of nicely politely remind them usually you probably politely remind your neighbor your co-worker or whatever but meanwhile you're yelling at your kids

all crazy you know yeah the thing that's i think is very scary right now it probably always has been scary but not quite as scary is if you don't have a good relationship with your kids your kids are going to have a good relationship with someone or something else right now the amount of brainwashing that is available through the interwebs is psychotic it is truly psychotic and some of the people some of these kids that have been brainwashed it's it's horrific to see it's really truly horrific to see to see look dude kids are kids are going to do kid shit right and you got to recognize that kids are going to do kid shit but if you know people can be absolutely manipulated they're kids they're 12 they're 15 they're 13 they're 18 they're nine those are impressionable

brains so I would I haven't really had to deal I didn't have to deal with it so much you know some of the horror, some of the horrific stories that you hear of people, kids being radicalized through online, you know, social media is really horrific to see. And if you're, if you don't have a good relationship, you probably won't see it until it's too late, as they say. Because there is a lot of evil out there and kids are the victims and kids are not that not just the victims kids are like the um they're the goal it's the it's the fertile ground is a kid a nine-year-old kid a 10-year-old kid a 11-year-old kid a 15-year-old kid those kids become radicalized and it's horrific to see and so if you're not building your kid and we you're not building your kid and we

You know, what comes with a good relationship with your parents? Confidence. You get that value system. You kind of understand what's right and wrong. Like, all those things are so critical. And what's scary right now is, you know, if your kid is nine years old in the 80s, they go out. Look, you can't monitor everything that they're doing. By the time they're, you know, 13, 14, 15, like when I was 14 years old, I was going to New York City on my own going to hardcore shows.

Like I'm actually kind of surprised I did that shit, you know that my parents were like, oh, whatever. I mean, taking the train by myself to New York City and then go into freaking hell's kitchen and going to CBGBs and there's, you know, it's crazy. It's crazy. At that time, man, you couldn't. It was, I don't know if this exists, but when you would walk through Times Square, every five steps that you took, I'm not kidding. Someone would say coke drugs pot weed hookers like I'm not kidding he was freaking nuts dude How old are you at this? This is the late 80s so I'm in my teens, you know probably between the ages of I mean I was definitely I was going down there before I could drive

So I'm 15 and under and and And you know you if you don't have those kind of pre-standing values Then you go into the world and it could be problematic, but I had to be released to the world. Nowadays, the world is in your pocket. The world is in the computer. And so all this evils out there trying to get into kids' heads, trying to lead them down a bad path.

And it's very horrific to see. It's really horrific to see what kids can turn into. And you know, it's funny because when in the 80s, right, this is when they had the, you know, what was it? heavy metal was being, you know, it's satanic and all this stuff. And it's evil and all that. And then they put the warnings on the record labels from Al Gore's wife, Tipper Gore was this big thing and explicit labels.

And all that made was the kids like, okay, this is the album I want now. But think of a, they thought that like a song was going to, you know, manipulate a kid's brain. Now you get a kid that is interacting with another, human whose goal it is to manipulate people. And I've been trying to find some better information on brainwashing.

You know, I think we did a couple underground episodes about brainwashing. Maybe I'll revisit some of those documents. But it's when you see it, look, kids, people can be convinced. Kids are in cults. When I was a kid, there was people that got into cults that I knew. And their parents had to go and get them, they would kidnap the kids back and get them deprogramed.

Bro, deprogrammed. This is scary. And it's probably happening at a scale now that is much, much larger than it used to be, once again. Because back in the 80s, for me as a cult leader to find someone, I had to go and physically find them on the street somewhere. Now I can just access them through their phone.

Yeah. So it's it's really disturbing and we've got to be this is why we have to build good relationships with your kids and your kids have to have the value I got asked the other day on an interview like oh, you know this kind of the the standard kind of jaco joke of like, hey, you know, I'd love I can't imagine what you would do to a guy that was coming to date. You're one of your daughters. And he's well, how would you treat someone? How did you treat someone like that? And I was like, well, quite frankly my daughters can handle themselves they have strong values they're strong minded and they do jit-to and i'm not i've told my girl since day one i'm not always going to be there so i don't have to look over your shoulder and make sure that you're being treated correctly you will be treated correctly and if you're not you'll stand up for yourself i says i don't have to do

guard my daughters my daughters guard themselves you you want to get heel hooked you want to get straight knee locked but but that's the thing is the way this is done is by developing those strong relationships. And by the way, this is what they're talking about with the Marines and the Army. When you have a Marine, an 18-year-old Marine, like what kind of relationship does he have with his platoon leader, with his platoon sergeant? And if his platoon sergeant is like, hey, we're Marines. We don't do this.

We don't do that. We step to example. Like all those things. Bro, they're making the right decision out in town. If their platoon sergeant is like, hey, we're Marines, we party, we drink. Which by the way, when I got to SEAL teams, that's what it was. That's what we do. I was like, okay, that's what we do.

I was brainwashed. You know, hey, like, this is what we do. Okay, this is what we're doing. You know, that's what we're doing. We're getting drunk, going to party. That's what we're doing. Okay, that's what we're doing. Nope, nope.

So what you do when you build a relationship with your kids, get the right values in place. And again, am I saying that you necessarily need to force those values down their throat? And I'll, no. I will tell you the same thing that I told you about, when I never have like a command philosophy like Seth had. And it's because people knew me. They already knew my reputation. They weren't going to be like,

oh, are we going to train hard? Like, no, no, they knew it. And my kids was kind of the same way. I never like sat them down. I did have, I'll try and find it. I did have like a way of the Willinks or something like that.

Hell yeah. But it ended up being a way of the warrior kid. Like the code, the warrior kid code is what that became. But I never, I shouldn't say I never. I even though I wrote that one time like for my kids But I wasn't like hey here's the rules and like the willing I didn't I kind of wrote it and just like hey guys

You know I don't even know if I even really freaking reviewed it film But they knew yeah they knew they knew like oh we need to get really good grades I never said like you need straight A's no they just did it I never said hey you can you know you you you need to work hard never said that they just did it So you have this and I then you're actually a good example of of this where yeah like shoving values down your kids throw to whatever like as you've said many times like that's not how it works and really put real simply simply if you can provide an environment with consistent values displayed what you're for and against or should I say what you're against and for two you know you can't just be like hey we're the willing we don't do XYZ meanwhile you're not really shedding light on what you do you do or your saying we don't do these things, but you're doing that. Exactly right.

Or sometimes doing them and sometimes not. You see what I'm saying? It's wishy-washy. But yeah, you don't have to have a list of values or whatever if you're living the list of values every single day. So, like, and this is usually how it works too where, like, I know it is fun when you're talking about your girls where it's like, oh, yeah, they might get heel hooked or whatever. That's usually not what it looks like. It's usually like when a guy will like enter their life that is like substandard to their values

or whatever, they simply will steer clear of them. Just naturally, they won't have to put on this big show of rejection. It's not that. They just like, they're not, they don't gravitate towards people. It's like if me and you were cruising or I'm walking, I don't know, down the street, you know, we're going to some restaurant and we see some like homeless people doing drugs. We're not going to be like, hey, let's go see what they're up to. That looks like that's fun.

We're like, no, we're just going to steer clear the homeless people. See what I'm saying? It's an extreme example of like how that works. So you get like any girl, young girl with good, strong moral values or whatever, this bad boy, you know, player dude or whatever, he's not really going to show up on her radar as an attractive thing. So what I'm saying? And even if he does by looks, like he immediately will go off the radar because it's like,

you just sort of steer clear. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like what you're attracted to in life, you know? You're right. You're right. And again, I want to, I want to restate this. I don't, I said that I never really, I never had like the, the command philosophy for my guys.

I never really had like, hey, this is the, this is what we're doing willing, this, recite this code to me. I'm not saying that that's bad. I, I, I'm just saying I simply didn't do it. I think that I had, you know, sort of a strong underlying tone in my existence. Consistent. Consistent. Yeah.

That, that said that. If I was listening to this podcast right now and I had a three year old and a five year old, I would be like, oh, no, no. Okay. We're writing a code. I would get the way of the warrior kid. I'd be like, okay, we're going to make this, we're going to make this for us. And we're going to start to, again, we're going to start to live it.

Not to dictate it to your kids, not to cram it down their throat, but this is what we're doing. And when your kid goes, Daddy, why can't we get, you know, why can't I get some ice cream? You know, you don't say, because that's against the code. You go, well, let's talk about what that does to your long term. Yeah. And if you really want ice cream tonight, you can get ice cream tonight. Cool. But let's think about low.

You know, having living. it and being able to convey it in a way that makes sense, this is just good. That's what I would recommend. And the consistent part is huge. I remember a long time. I forget what we were talking about something. Sarah Armstrong would just was like consistency as you know, she's a her parents or her kids are adults like mine.

But, you know, that's one thing that she talked about was, hey, it's about consistency. It's kind of like, it's kind of like training a dog. You know what I mean? Like with a dog, you, you let that, if you, if your dog's not allowed to go past a certain point in the yard. Yeah. And you correct them seven times. Generally speaking, they won't do it anymore. If you correct them once and they go and they get away with it.

And then you correct them again and they go away with again. It's, you don't, they're not trained. So being consistent in letting the, the kid see that you live this way. way is extremely important. And when you fall short of it, another thing, when you fall short of it, you need to own it and explain that you're sorry that you let them down, that you're sorry your behavior is, you know, you shouldn't have been doing whatever it is that you were doing. You know, if you lose your temper with your kids, you need to explain, you need to apologize.

This is bad stuff. Yeah. When you do things that are wrong, you need to own it. And I think that the, that's the, that's the, that's the, you know, that's the, you know, the reason that I put the code in the warrior kid book is because people need a code. That's why I wrote the code, the evaluation of protocol with Dave Burke and Sarah Armstrong. The reason I did that is because the same thing. I'm like, you know what?

I wrote the book, I wrote the kids book, but humans need a code. They need a code because once you have it, then you go, okay, wait a second. Is this for real? But it's important that you've got to understand the why. You've got to understand. You can't just say, we, we. keep our room clean you can't just say that right you need to say we keep our room clean and ready for action and the reason we do that you know this might not be in the code

but you say and the reason we do that is here's some mistakes that you can make here's here's why having a dirty room can trip you up what if the firefighters come and there's a fire in the house and they're coming in through the window to rescue you and they trip over something and fall down and else and they can't get you out of there there's a reason for this so they got there's got to be a why it's kind like standard operating procedures you have a platoon you have standard operating procedures, you just can't impose them on people, they got to have the understanding of why this standard operating procedure exists. So even though I, I'm telling you, I did not write a code for, you know, my platoon or for my task unit or even really for my family.

I strongly recommend that you do it. Kind of like in this thing, they write, hey, write out what is your command philosophy and explain it. Like, explain to your kids, hey, guys, when you make a mistake, here's what I'm going to do. I'm not going to lose my mind. I'm not going to, you know, punish you out of anger. But there will be consequences, especially if these following things are broken. You know, I mean, and they should know. They should know what the limitations are.

They should know what they can and cannot get away with. And there's some lines. There should be some red lines. You know, like if you cross this line, your whole world is going to change, which is something I told my kids. There was a couple lines. And I actually only told that to my son.

It was like a couple lines that if you cross these lines, in fact, I swore at him. You know, when he was like, I never swore in front of my kids. Never swore in front of my kids. I never swore in front of my wife or kids. I say, I use the past tense because now, you know, they're adults and so I'll swear in front of them now. but you know at a certain point I told my son like hey if this thing happens your whole

fucking world is going to change he was he was probably 13 right around the time frame where your world you can make really bad decisions and I think he understood that in no uncertain terms like so far you you have a good that's another thing is like you've heard me say treat your kids like adults as much as you can't yeah and I treated my kids like adults even when they were 12, 13 Okay, you know you, I trust you, go out, you're going to do this, you're going to do that, sleep over, you know, party, whatever, 15, party, beach, like, you know, drinking, like there's that, all that stuff is happening. Okay, you can do it. I trust you, you trust me. So, important stuff to think about.

Back to these traits here. Unselfishness, clearly, you know, if you're selfish as a leader, you're going to be, you're going to be looked down upon. loyalty displaying faithfulness to your country the core your unit your seniors your subordinates and your peers displaying enthusiasm and carrying out an order although you may privately disagree with it again you got to be careful with that one got to be careful because they'll see it what you really should do is ask the question why up the chain of command and you're going to realize that you're doing it for a reason because the amount of times that I was I always bring up well you get order to do something dumb the amount

of times I was actually ordered to do something dumb was minuscule miniscule My bosses were always like, well, hold on a second. What did you say? And I said, well, it's this, this and this. And here's the secondary effects. Here's the church. They're like, oh, didn't see that. Okay, cool.

Jock would go ahead and do what you want. That's most of the time. Most of the time. Yeah, can you do something that's like, hey, guys, this is going to suck, but here's why we're doing it. Hey, we got to go do this thing again. But guess what? It's because the whole battalion screwed this up.

And now we've got to do a repeat. We can't just, we don't want to skip out. Does anyone here want to look like the people that said, hey, we don't want to work hard tonight? No, of course not. We're Marines. We're going to go do this. Boom. I think this is the last thing we're going to get into is leadership principles.

And these are stuff that we've covered before. Know yourself and seek self-improvement. Evaluate yourself by leadership traits. Determine your strengths and weaknesses. Achieve self-improvement by reading and observing. Ask your friends and seniors for an honest evaluation of your leadership. This will help you to know your weaknesses and strengths. Important.

Be technically and tactically proficient. Of course, know your job. Again, these are stuff we've done. covered before know your Marines look out for their welfare this is one of the most important principles might be the most important principle should know your Marines and how they react to different situations a Marine who is nervous and lacks self-confidence should never be put in a situation where an important instant decision must be made knowledge of your Marines personalities will enable you as a

leader to decide how to best handle each Marine and to determine when to closely supervise each so put your Marines welfare before your own of course determine what your Marines mental attitudes are Keep in touch with their thoughts. Encourage individual development. Share the hardships of your Marines so that you can better understand the reactions. Check.

Keep your Marines informed. Marines by nature are inquisitive. Explain the why. Detect the spread of rumors and stop them by replacing them with the truth. Build morale and a spriticor by publicizing information concerning successes of your unit. Yes.

Set the example. Set the example. As a Marine leader, your duty is to set the standards for your Marines by personal example, your appearance, attitude, physical fitness, and personal example are all watched by Marines in your unit. If your personal standards are high, then you can rightfully defend the demand the same of your Marines.

If your personal standards are not high, you are setting a double standard for your Marines, and you will rapidly lose their respect and confidence. Remember your Marines reflect your image. Leadership is taught by example. There you go. Be physically fit, well-groomed, correctly dressed do not expose your personal habits to criticism I'm not quite sure there's a

couple other ones in here but do not expose your personal habits to criticism I think what that means is don't do shit that you will is open to criticism like if you're acting like a drunk idiot idiot you're it's not good if you're falling out of runs it's not good you know and it's saying personal habits so whatever like uh you know you got you're you're you're missing your car payment, your car's getting repoed. Like, bro, that ain't looking good. Yeah, that makes sense.

Exercise initiative to promote the spirit of initiative in your Marines. Avoid over supervision. Number six, ensure that the task is understood, supervised, and accomplished. This principle is necessary to exercise command. Before you can expect your Marines to perform, they must know first what is expected of them. You must communicate your instructions in a clear, concise manner.

Boom. the most important part of this principle is to accomplish the mission. Otherwise, all leadership, supervision, and guidance in the world are wasted. You got to get the job done. Train your Marines as a team. Teamwork is the key to successful operations. Teamwork is essential. From the smallest to the largest element in the entire Marine Corps.

As a company commander, you must insist on teamwork from your Marines. Train, play, and operate as a team. Be sure that each Marine knows his position and responsibilities within the team framework. Reward and discipline the team never publicly blame an individual for the team's failure nor praise one individual for the team's success Good number eight make sound and timely decisions Consider the advice and suggestions of your subordinates whenever possible Develop a sense of responsibility among your subordinates another way to show your Marines that you are interested in their welfare is to give them the opportunity for professional development assigning tasks and delegating authority to accomplish task promotes mutual confidence and respect between the leader and the subordinates.

Also makes a note operate through the chain of command. Give your Marines frequent opportunities, perform duties usually performed by the next higher ranks. Let people another later chance. Let Marines know that you will accept honest errors without punishment in return. Check. Resist the urge to micromanage. Don't give restrictive guidance, which destroys initiative. assign Marines positions according to demonstrated or potential ability good number 10

employer command according to its capabilities successfully competing a task depends on how well you know your unit's capabilities assigning a task that your unit has not been trained to do will result in failure failures lower your unit's morale self-esteem and confidence seek out challenging tasks for unit for your unit but be sure your unit is prepared for and has the ability to successfully complete the mission important sometimes I'll get asked you know I got bad morale in my team or whatever and you know how can I improve morale win and even winning small things look not stupid things but small things it's okay if you do that you'll be you'll make some progress

and over time you can take on bigger challenges and you'll be all right and this is the last one that we're going to cover seek responsibility and take responsibility for your actions I think there's a book about that. Yeah, I hear good things. You are responsible for all that your unit does or fails to do. You are responsible for the decision and its application regardless of your subordinate's actions. You must issue all orders in your name. Stick by your convictions and do what you think is right, but accept justified criticism.

Never remove or demote a subordinate for a failure resulting from your own mistake. It's important. And just remember, stick by your convictions doesn't mean keep doing the same thing when it's not working. Learn the duties of your immediate senior. Be prepared to accept responsibilities for these duties. Take every opportunity that offers increased responsibility. That's a rough one. Perform every act, large or small, to the best of your ability.

Stand up for what you believe is right. Have the courage of your convictions. That doesn't mean close your mind. That doesn't mean don't listen to people. in fact I would add a caveat try and understand other people's perspectives because what you believe is right might not be right carefully evaluate a subordinates failure before taking action ensure that the apparent shortcomings are not due to an error on your part they probably are they work for you you're the boss take ownership consider marines that are available salvage one if possible replace when necessary you don't always you always just

get a new Marine. In a seal, the seal, you fire a seal, you're probably not getting a replacement. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. Can't count on it. In the absence of orders, take the initiative and to perform the actions

that you believe your senior would direct you to perform if you were present. And then closing it out, here's the summary. These leadership principles are proven guidelines, which, if followed, will substantially enhance your ability to lead Marines. Remember, by implementing these principles,

you'll earn the respect of your fellow Marines, juniors and seniors, and you will become an effective commander. So there you go. Anything we have not heard before? I don't really think so. I don't really think so. Why do we need to keep hearing it over and over again? That's the question.

The answer to that is because it's against our instincts. Our instincts are telling us to do the opposite. Blame other people, work in silos. That's what our instincts are telling us to do. Leadership is countertuitive. So we have to pay attention. It's a good guide. This is a little guidebook.

Kind of let you know, little reminders. Reminder, to pay attention and do what you're supposed to do. Not what you want to do. Not what feels good. Not what seems right. Not what you can convince yourself of. Not what you can debate with yourself about. Not what you can rationalize.

Do what you're. you're supposed to do do what you're supposed to do that's how we're leading also part of leadership we heard it a couple times today physical fitness it's true man you got to be physically fit should be your number one strategic goal in your life does that sound crazy to me that does not sound crazy no the number one strategic goal of your life should be to be healthy as you can yeah yeah it needs to be because once we lose that Now look, does that mean that every season of your life, it's going to be the number one thing? Nope, there might be three weeks where, you know, work is consuming or kid gets sick or something you got to do.

I mean, I got a friend that had a very sick daughter and he, like, physically wasn't able to do anything for months. He was explaining to me. It's like awful. But that's what you do. You know, you take care of family. So are there going to be seasons? Yep. where the strategic priority becomes taking care of your daughter?

Yeah, absolutely. As soon as you get through that, guess what? Get back on the path. You got to get back on the path. The health, again, I'm going to quote RFK Jr. A healthy person has a thousand problems. A sick person only has one. So if you want to contend with the world, all the problems that we have in the world,

all the things that we've got to do in the world, you're going to contend with all those things. You've got to be healthy. So that means, guess what? We're getting after it. We're lifting. We're running. We're sprinting. We're training the jiu-jitsu. We're just generally getting after it. That's what we're doing. And when we do that, Echo Charles, is there anything specific that we need? Some fuel. We need fuel. Hey, check out Jocko Fuel. We have everything that you need. We got protein. Get the best tasting protein. Get the most efficacious protein. We got protein that tastes like dessert. We got the best energy drinks that are clean and healthy. We get hydration. We got supplementation. We got everything that you need. Creatine. Get on the creatine train Get on I just someone just hit me up on social media

They're they did doubled their creatine dosage They're getting into my zone No I think no they doubled their creatine dosage And they're half my zone okay my zone yeah what are you doing 10 grams a day Yeah morning night morning morning morning two two scoops in the morning No mix with hydrate no it makes the hydrate water you know some other good stuff The muscle drive do you have muscle drive no you got to get on the muscle drive muscle drive is it's very interesting it's very helpful like it one thing that

kind of especially for me because a lot of times I'm not hungry in the morning right but I know my body needs a little bit of fuel yeah me too that muscle drive is good to go and it gives you it's like satiating oddly enough sure it's kind of makes you for your body goes oh cool thank you we're good for a little bit right right we're good for the curves of hunger for for weight cutting got some folks weight cutting obviously we have a gym where we compete and people are cutting weight and that muscle drive has been clutch yeah clutch i was talking to Nate and he was like uh yeah he's been cutting some weight and he was like good to go yeah maintain the strength cut the weight so muscle drive we got all kinds of great products so available kind of anywhere right now but if it's not

available at the store that you go to well ask them for it and in the means Time also joccofuel.com. You can just order it. We'll ship it to your house. We got an amazing Logistics team and they will get it to you ASAP usually ships same day by the way It's kind of crazy you know the the jocco fuel team. There's so many so much data is gets analyzed sure but I know like on a daily basis usually I use that I get the report on on a Fridays but every day the logistic team knows how many packages to ship are outstanding that day and it's like oh yeah we got we get seven packages that didn't go out they're going out first thing because of

whatever you know but you know you're shipping thousands of packages like oh yeah we get seven that didn't ship it's pretty on it pretty amazing yeah so the logistics team joccofuel.com they'll get you what you need they'll get it to you stat oh yeah also since we are training yep and we're training jiu jit too hopefully origin USA.com. We've got Jiu-Jitsu geese, J-J-2 rash guards, J-J-J-J-T-T shorts.

We got everything. But not only that, you're not training J-J-J-J-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-ROT. We're also going to go to the restaurant with our spouses. Sure. You're going to need jeans. Origin USA jeans.

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We're rebuilding the manufacturing capability in America. We're rebuilding the economy in America. And we're rebuilding the communities in America. So go to origin USA. and get yourself some American made goods. Freedom. Let's go. Yeah.

Shout out to those little, what are those, the dry fit kind of hoodies that you get? Mm-hmm. You know, what do you guys call this? Burr. Yeah, yeah.

Bro, that's like an everyday scenario. Yeah. Everyday scenario slash, I have one of those at all times with me. Yeah. So when I travel, I have one in my bag.

It's real small. I have that and I have the win shirt. Yeah. That thing goes with me. wherever I go. You can survive like 90% of such scenarios that you'll encounter in the continental United States with that right there. I'm so with you. So the way you called it the wind sure. Yeah called the wind shirt. I forget the technical name for it. Okay so is that the jacket. It's like a jacket the zipper right? Yes. Okay. I'm 100% with you. Brer because it fits anywhere. Fits anywhere.

You can put it in your pocket if you need to. Yeah. Yeah. That thing's so clutch. And the reason we That's one of the first things that we made like outerwear and when we started reviewing like, hey, what are we going to make? I was like, hey, we're going to make a win shirt. The reason I knew that is because in when I was in the team's work in the day, I would carry that win shirt with me because it saved me. It saved me. You're getting this. Because when you cut that wind out. Yeah. You're kind of good. You're kind of G.TG. And look, if it's a torrential rain, it's not waterproof. Yeah. But, you know, like the light rain that you're going to get that you can seek shelter from, you know, you'll be okay. But the wind, sometimes we get in situations, you can't escape the wind, you know? So you gotta break that thing out. And then when you have that little,

and I'll tell you what, just kind of made it into my arena and this is kind of an admission on my part. Sure. Because you remember I used to hassle you about the lightweight hoodies. Yes. Well, that stealth wall, shirt is clutch.

And once again, it's way smaller than like a hoodie hoodie because it's just thinner. Yeah. But that wool, that stealth wool is GTG. So I have one of them

has little buttons on it. There's a name. There's like a special name for it. And then there's one of them that just has a hood. Yeah. And so, yeah,

they're really good to go. Yeah. So with you. We got some stuff for you. OriginUSA.com, 100% communist free. It's true. Also,

don't forget about Jocco store. You know, you want to represent T-shirts. We've got some hoodies on there as well. Summertime is about to end soon in a month, whatever. Either way. Either way, we've got something for you. Discipline equals freedom. Represent. Good.

Represent. Stand by to get some. That's a little sleeper. A lot of people have been, like, they see that when they grab down too. Don't forget. And also get after it. That's a real good one. It's a real good one. We've got a new get after it.

Well, it's kind of old, a few months old. But available, nonetheless. Also the short locker subscription scenario. New design every month. This month I got a fun one. You got to check out the website to see what it is. Yeah, new design every month. It's called the shirt locker.

Teasing. Teasing everyone. You go check out the website. Just give us a brief description for it. If you're Generation X, you're going to know. You're going to know you can be happy. That's not even remotely close to a description. Yeah, yeah.

It's a hint. Okay, great. Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah. Either way, it is available on jocco store.com. Check. Also, we got some books.

Put your legs on by Rob Jones. Need to lead by Dave Burke. Extreme ownership. The dichotomy of leadership, strategy and tactics, discipline equals freedom field manual. And wave the warrior kid. Mikey and the dragon.

We got everything for you. We got everything for you. So check that out. Also, Colorado Craftbeef.com. If you need steak, which you do, go to Colorado, Craftveef.com and get the best steak that you can find here in America. Ashlandfront.com, we teach leadership principles.

You heard a lot about them today. We teach them. We bring them inside your organization. We help you with the problems that you have through leadership. So check out Eshalomfront.com. Also, Extreme Ownership.com. This is our online training academy for leadership skills. Check out Extreme Ownership.com.

If you want to get engaged with that. And if you want to help service members active and retired, you want to help their families. You want to help Gold Star families. Check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got an amazing charity organization. If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to America's mighty warriors.org. Also check out heroes and horses.org. And then Jimmy May's organization, Beyond the Brotherhood.org, got a swim going in New York City.

So if you want to get involved with that, go and check out Beyond the Brotherhood.org. And then of course there's warriors and need.org taking our aviation field from the military and getting you into the civilian sector. 30,000 jobs waiting. So get engaged with that. If you want to connect with us, check out jocco.com. And then on social media, I'm at jocco willink. Echoes at echo Charles. Just watch out for this freaking stupid algorithm and the stupid people that are trying to build the people.

They're not stupid. They're not stupid. They're trying to brainwash you. Trying to brainwash? Look, I talked about kids. They're trying to brainwash me. Trying to brainwash Echo Charles. They're definitely trying to brainwash all of us.

Even if the brainwashing is merely to just stay there longer and look at more stupid shit, they're in there. So it's a monster. Don't let it get you. Thanks to all of our service members that are deployed around the world right now. They're in harm's way. Clearly, we've been taking casualties. It's awful to see. But we thank you.

you for executing the missions that you're on and security and stability for America. We thank you for your sacrifices and thanks for what you do. Also, thanks to our police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, Secret Service, as well as all other first responders. Thanks for what you do to protect us here at home. And everyone else out there, just remember some of these lessons from the Marine Corps, 250 years. They've been gathering these lessons. Pay attention. of what you're doing pay attention to how you act set the standard control your tempo echo Charles yes sir keep your word own your mistakes be on time be physically and mentally prepared don't complain

don't complain always improve these are the things we need to do and if you if you keep these thoughts of front of mind if you don't get pulled off the path by your lizard brain which is constantly like it's not a lizard it's a comodo dragon it's might even just be a straight up dragon and it's trying to grab a hold of you and get you to you to eat a donut get you to scroll a more get you to lose your temper it's not all doing all those things modern distractions it's trying to it's trying to employ your emotions trying to employ your ego just keep the real elements of being a good person and a good leader front of mind and if you do that you can lead yourself and then you can lead others and that's all we've got for tonight and until next time

this is echo and jocco out