Jocko Podcast - 61: Confronting People Who've Been Talking Behind Your Back. How to Deal with Anger Management Issues. Be Careful With Praise.

Episode Date: February 7, 2017

0:00:00 - Opening 0:01:35 - How to Deal With Anger Management Issues. 0:10:35 - Is it possible to exhibit too much Extreme Ownership? 0:17:57 - Jocko Spars Jiu Jitsu with Rickson Gracie 0:39:02 - In a NEW Leadership role, When to use Firmness right away VS. When NOT to. 0:45:10 - How Praise can hurt performance VS How it can help performance. 0:53:42 - How to Detach without Seeming Completely Cold. 0:59:36 - Discipline in one Area does NOT Make up for Slack in Other Areas 1:07:51 - How to Confront someone who has been talking behind your back. 1:11:43 - Support: Cool Onnit, Amazon, JockoStore stuff, with Jocko White Tea and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book) and The Muster002  1:49:35 - Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 61 with Echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. So it's been a few episodes since we got into the Q&A. Sure. So today we're going to go right into questions that come. They actually come from the interwebs. Sure.

People out there. So everyone that gives questions, appreciate it. Thank you for the questions. I can't answer them all, but talking to some people out there, if you listen to the different questions, you can figure out your own answers to a lot of them. You like learn the formulas and then you can apply. But thanks for the questions. Appreciate it. Sometimes when you, in my experience, anyway, when I think, okay, I'm going to ask Jocko this question and then you either write it out or you even, you even,

Even when I remember the other day when I busted out questions and when I say them out loud, it was like a few weeks ago and I say it out loud when I'm, as I'm saying it to you, I'm like, oh, I know that's already because you think, you know. You realize. So you can kind of utilize that whole. So you've started to get the formulas in your own head. Yeah. And now as you're saying to me, you say, oh, I know what the answer is.

Yes, exactly. How do I get out of bed in the morning? Get out of bed. How do I be mentally tougher? be mentally tougher. All right, rock and roll. First question, go. Jocko, hi, Jocko.

Today I had what I believe you refer to as disciplinary breakdown. This morning I found out that I had to take additional credits in college that I believed were completed. So he thought they were complete. He had to take more, as it turns out. In a fit of rage, I took my phone

and threw it across the room in frustration. I felt really good at the time, But five seconds later, I regret it because now, broken phone. And I lost control of my emotions. So do you have any mental tricks or anything in general that you do when you're slightly irritated or outright furious? P.S, this used to happen a lot more. I started jih Tzu and haven't rolled for three weeks. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I felt great whenever I was rolling consistently.

Maybe. Anecdotal, however, we do know that jih Tijitsu soothed. It's the soul. So, well, one of the things in me, and you've talked about this too, when I realized that losing your temper was a sign of weakness, as soon as I made that connection, I said to myself, this is weak, I'm going to try not to do it anymore. And what's weird is when you're a kid, I don't know if you remember this, but when I was a kid, and you'd see someone get angry and it made you afraid. and so for a while I saw it as like a power you know it's kind of a way to achieve power that you can lose your temper and then all of a sudden you have this extra strength and so when you're a little kid and when I say a little kid I mean when I was 13 14 years old I thought

hey if I go if I could get that rage going and people are scared like I used to feel that's a positive thing and then like I said as I got older now you know now you're talking 16, 15, 16, 17, I realized, hey, this isn't, this isn't cool. This isn't strength. It's actually weakness. And when I realized it was weakness, and I didn't realize that overnight, but I started getting the idea that that was weakness. And now when you see someone that is in control, and even when bad things are happening,

they're standing stoically saying, okay, let me take another look at that and I'll get it done. You know what I mean when they're just okay then you realize okay this guy is really unflappable which is a lot more impressive. So again, you got to be able to detach from this and you know I like to take pride in the fact that I'm going to keep my cool no matter what happens and definitely once I was in once you're in the single teams you definitely want to be that guy that's keeping your keeping you cool no matter what's happening whether it's people are doing the wrong thing or you just want to be the guy that's hey okay come back over here we need to redo this

You just want to be that guy. That's way more impressive than the guy that says, I can't believe this. Don't be that person. So, and I've talked about this before, what are the pre-event indicators that show you or reveal to you that your temper is about to be lost? What are they?

Is it you clench your fists, right? Is it you raise your voice and you start doing that stuff? Do you start to heavy breathing? Do you flare your nostrils, right? because that's an animal thing where you're gonna take in more oxygen so you open up the nostrils because you're about to get after it.

Do you, you know, does your, your head, you know, shaking or whatever? Just like these things. What is it, what indicators do you have when you know that you're starting to feel that? And as soon as you feel that, you detach. You go, oh, that's what that is.

That's an indicator. And it's a weakness. And I don't like weakness. So I'm not going to allow it. And then, you know, take a breath. I like to, say, you know what? Here's a good one. You want to get through that moment.

Nod your head slowly in the affirmative. Right? So when someone's telling me something that's making me mad, I'll just slowly nod my head. Like, I understand. This is the way things are. I accept this. And this is I'm calculating what my next move is going to be.

And then you know, you see, whatever, you know, guys will count a 10. You know, you tell your little kids that. Tell your little kids when they start losing their timber, you know, you need to count a 10. Count to 10. Count a 100. Count 2,000, whatever it is you got to do and get control because, like I said, if you're losing control, it's not strength, it's weakness. Yeah. I said this before where I read this book called Mind Game.

Small little book. Talked about anger management. Like if people have anger issues. Yeah. You realized it was low or they said it was low self-esteem. They say, yeah, anger issues stem from low self-esteem. And that was really embarrassing. You know, I didn't have anger issues, but I'm saying if someone ever told me like, oh, you have low self-esteem or something like that, that would be pretty embarrassing.

I always thought. And so to me, I took that as an extreme being so sensitive to the, even the expression, low self-esteem that I was like, oh, I can never get angry again. It says right there, everyone gets angry, you know? So that was always on my mind. Anytime I started to feel mad. I was like, okay, I feel mad right now, but I don't want a low self-esteem, so I better act right, you know, kind of thing. And then after a while, it just became habitual. But the, you know, I say like there's a difference between how you feel and how you feel.

how you behave. Like you fit, you have feelings, you know, but then if not, most people, you know, you're mad,

yeah, these mad feelings. So what are you going to go and straight up behave mad? You know? No. Then, yeah,

and a lot of people do it. And a lot of people actually behave mad and justify it because that's my true feelings. But again, they're two different things, man.

Don't, don't act on your true feelings in front of everybody. Most of the, Don't do that. No, not good. Not good. Yeah, I dig it though.

Like, you know, because you know that feeling. Because if you act on your true feelings, by the way, the reason I'm saying that is if you act on your true feelings all the time, you won't get the long term place where you want to be. Oh, yeah. Your true feelings do not lead you to your true destination. Yeah. Right? They don't. Oh, my gosh.

So don't. Especially when you're at. Keep your true feelings focused on the true destination that you want to be at. And the true feelings that you have of the anger and frustration. and want to yell at somebody and all that other stupid stuff. You know what you end up with? A broken iPhone because you hooked it at the wall. That's what you end up with.

Bro, how's this? Storytime. I'll make it quick. Okay. So one of my friends I used to work with a long time ago, my name's Chris. So this driving gets cut off or something, you know, road rage situation.

True feelings, right? True feelings. Oh, that guy, I want to beat him up. I want to hurt him. Right. I'm road raging. Yells something or whatever. Maybe the other guy yelled at him first.

I don't know who started what. But they pull over, get into a fight. That's kind of in a way at the time that feels like the fantasy right there. I wish I could fight this guy. I hope I'm going to. I hope he's right there so I can fight him. I don't know. Whatever.

That's your feelings. So anyway, Chris gets in a fight with this guy on the side of the road. Grown adult, by the way. Fights the guy, tears his peck, tears it. Chris tears his own peck. Yes. in the fight. I don't know if he won or lost.

Whatever. But he's coming to work. I'm going to go ahead and tell you lost. He lost. It doesn't matter. Torn Peck is a six-month injury in the surgery. Yeah. You know,

can you work with a torn peck? Well, most of the time, probably not, you know? And all because, you know, the guy cut you off or wasn't going fast enough

or it was going, you know, too fast, whatever, you know, it's one of those things. And that's, that's what your true feelings get you. Yeah,

especially in the moment, especially when it's anger. Yeah. It's weird. We'll have to explore that at some point because I know it doesn't make sense. I'm not sitting here saying everyone suppress all your feelings. Yeah, all your real feeling. Yeah.

But the stupid feelings that you have suppress those. Yeah. Let them manifest themselves over time for a long-term result. That's going to be what you actually want from life. Usually the anger. Yeah, anger for sure is wonderful. But anger, jealousy, ego, all those things. Those are all things that if you just act.

on them all the time, you're not going to have good times in life. I'm here to tell you. And every single feeling, when you're drunk. Next question. Those are not good. Yeah, don't act on those either. Next question. I led a session based on the book Extreme Ownership to my team at work.

I'm not the leader, but everyone, including our manager, was very supportive and enjoyed the session. The challenge from a team member was, is there such thing as taking too much ownership? won't you start feeling guilty about not succeeding completely? This guilt would not be a good thing. Thoughts on handling this. Well, there's definitely a thing of, you can definitely take too much ownership, but not for that reason.

I've talked about this before. If you're taking two, if you and I are on a team and I'm the leader and we've got a mission, and I take so much ownership that I say, okay, echo, this is how we're going to do everything. You're going to listen to me. I own this and I don't give you any ownership.

Now it's not your plan. And so now you don't execute. it the best way and you don't buy into it and all that stuff so that is how you take too much ownership takes away the if you take too much ownership as a leader you take away ownership from your subordinates and so you've taken and again it's that's overt ownership if I take overt ownership now if I give you the mission and you go out and execute it and you mess it up and I say okay I go I didn't give you enough guidance I didn't give you the support and give you the training I'm going to own the mistakes I'm going to own the failure overtly but covertly if I'm

giving you the mission, I'm going to say, hey, you take it and run with it. So that's where you need to be careful of that. But guilt for failing is not a valid cause not to take ownership, right? Guess what? When you fail something, yeah, you're going to feel guilty. But it's a different kind of, it's more of a disappointment because things didn't go your way. And I'll tell you, when you feel guilty, when you feel guilty to me is if I know I haven't done, my best. I know I cut corners. I know I didn't invest the time. I know I

didn't give it everything I could as a leader. That's when I feel guilty. If I give it everything and I've done everything I can and I look back and of course there's going to be things that you didn't predict. Hindsight's 2020. We all know that. There's going to be things where you look back and you say I wish I would have made a different

decision. But you have to say okay so what are you going to do in the future? Be indecisive now. Are you not going to make decisions? Even at that moment when I made the decision which which was wrong now that we can see hindsight well what were you going to do you're going to wait and sit around and do nothing and now we get attacked we get maneuvered on we get the competitor moves or the enemy moves on us so what so you might feel disappointed that you made the wrong decision you might feel that type of guilt but well the real guilt for me is if i i didn't give everything i could to the

situation so that's what causes guilt to me Now, the failure, an actual failure, it shouldn't cause that level of guilt. It should cause you to dig deep and figure out what happened and want to re-attack it. That's what it should do. It should cause you to want to figure out where you failed, where your team failed, and what you can do to ensure that never happens again. If you want to call that guilt, you can call it guilt, but that is not a reason not to take ownership. You know, I might call it disappointment.

I'll tell you what I'll call it. I'll call it motivation. You know, and you know I don't throw that word around easily, but if I fail at something, I'm going to be motivated to make sure I get it back in line and get that thing squared away. So take ownership. If, you know, take ownership, get things done right. And if you fail, don't feel guilty.

Don't get guilty. Get aggressive. Find the problems and get them solved. That's it. Reattack. Yeah, man. Makes sense. Yes, so the guilt is what kind of like,

dang, it's all my fault. Like, no, you know, taking ownership for sure, but it's like, dang, it's all my fault. This failure, look at everyone's, I don't know, a guy lost his commission or on it. Right, right. Dang, that kind of guilt. Dang.

Yeah. And, you know, I say this with the businesses, you know, like you just said, you make someone lose their commission because you couldn't get the deal done fast enough, you couldn't give the guy the support that they needed. Now they lose commission. You can, sure, you can feel guilty about that.

Is that a reason not to take ownership of it? Absolutely not. It's a reason to take more ownership of it and be like, okay, buddy, Echo, I know you lost commission on that. Here's what I think I let you down. Here's we need to communicate better. Here's what I need to prepare and be ready to support you next time. So this doesn't happen again. Are you with me?

Right? As opposed to saying not taking ownership and saying, well, you know, Echo, that was kind of, you know, those deals don't always work out. Maybe you should prepare better. Does that make me feel good as a leader? No. Makes me feel like a idiot. It's kind of like the swamps of sadness. The swamps of sadness.

The swamps of sadness is like when you get. Don't want to visit. It's from the never-ending story. It's basically you go through these swamps and it's super hard. No. But it makes sense. It's a metaphor for life. Okay.

So this is a movie? It's a movie. Okay. It's a classic. Never-ending story? Yeah, the never-ending story. Anyway, the swamps of sadness. they're hard to walk through them.

It's like, it's hard. It's a swamp. Quick sand everywhere. Quick swamp, whatever. You know, it's not actually sand. But so you sink. And the more you sink, the sadder you get. The sadder you get, the more you sink.

So you got to like, you know how you say, oh, like if someone's feeling guilty in this case. Or if you get sad, a lot of times you get sad and you're like, oh, I'm such a sad. It's the downward spiral. The downward spiral. Exactly. So you got to fight the sand. You got to fight the swamps and sadness and get aggressive and work. It's not easy.

Totally not easy. That's why it's why it's. How do they cover the fact that if you're in the swamp and you're sinking, if you panic, you'll also sink more? Oh, yeah. Because you're getting aggressive, because getting aggressive might just be like thrashing around. Now you're running out of breath as you're sinking. Yeah. Do they cover that now?

No, they don't cover that part. Miss that on the metaphor, did they now? No. Rethink the swamp's a sadness. No. No, well, I don't think that that was part of the point. Because that happens for real. In the water?

You know, when you're in the water and something starts going wrong. Yeah. Yeah, if you get panicky, your breath is going faster, your oxygen's going quicker, you're going to die. Yeah. You have to relax. You have to relax. You have to relax. You got to relax. Yeah. And just switch into problem solving mode. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't let this one. But it is true that you can go in the downward spiral. Yeah. And, you know, we see that in people's lives, right? People's lives. They, they, they mess. They lose their job. And instead of going, cool. Opportunity and somebody just hit me up on social media the other day. It's like lost my job good. I got an opportunity go out find another job. I'm gonna step up like that's what you do. Yeah, yeah

And as opposed to lost my job. Oh no, what I'm gonna do and now you start going down the downward spiral because now you can't pay your rent next thing you know you're losing your apartment. Yeah, and now you can't pay your car payment either and now you're losing your car. So what do we do? How does that help? Doesn't help don't help don't panic get aggressive figure out what you're going to do next take advantage of this situation next question next question can you talk about the experience of rolling with hickson how impressed were you uh i answered this on twitter someone said how impressed were you i responded all caps impressed so jiu jitsu i was this is back in this is

Well, it's back in the day. So it's back in the day. And I was at Team 1 at the time. And so I think we're talking 95, 96 maybe. Maybe even, yeah, 95, 96, maybe 97. I think it was 97. And I was, yeah, it was 97 because I was working in the training department. And I was into Jiu-Jitsu, but I was a blue belch.

And I wanted to go and train with Hickson, right? because if you don't know anything about Hickson, for those people that aren't jiu-jitsu players, Hickson is the, he's considered to be the best ever at Jiu-Jitsu. And above and beyond just being the best ever, Hicks and Gracie, being considered the best ever at the sport, he has a high level of mystique about him.

and you know there's a bunch of reasons for that mystic and there's a great story and you know where I don't know the story when the guy from Japan challenged him yes yeah so guy from Japan he beat one guy in Japan and his teammate said I will fight you at any time the guy came to Hickson's Academy and challenged him to a fight and Hickson wasn't there at the time they called Hickson and said hey this guy from Japan's here to challenge your honor Hickson's like oh I'll be there 15 minutes. So Hickson came down. They wanted to record it and he said, no, you can't.

He goes, I will record it. I will own the video and we will fight now. And Hickson annihilated him. And that's one of the mystique stores. And actually the guy came back a little while later and brought him a show gun helmet and a samurai sword or something like that. I think there's some drama before that though. I think the guy went back and was like, yeah, him and like a bunch of people beat me

or a bunch of people beat me up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they reported it. And then somehow, I forget the details, but somehow he was persuaded to just tell the truth. Yeah. Well, they had a video of it. Hickson. Yes.

Hickson actually had it in that video exists. Yeah. So the guy told the truth. And then it was cool. And the other thing that's crazy. Well, the other thing that adds to the mystique of Hickson is that everybody that rolls with them, every multiple time, you know, five times, six time, seven time, world. champion jiu-jitsu person rolls with him and they say, I was helpless.

The guys that are winning, dominating the world championships or saying, you know, I was helpless and he's above and beyond anybody else that I've ever rolled with. So, and, you know, Hickson's now probably 50-something and he's not like rolling with the competitive black belts anymore. But this is, you know, five years, no, maybe 10 years ago. He was doing that. And he wouldn't compete, but the guys would come to train with him

and he'd destroy him. And there's some great stories online that a bunch of really good black belts have said, I mean, really good black belts have said, you know, I was rolling with Hicks and he just annihilated me. So this is,

for me, you know, I was a blue belt, but it was a pretty good blue belt, you know, back in the day for back in the day. And this is the beautiful thing. You know,

I was at, I was at SEAL Team 1. And so there's something in the military. You can get no cost orders, meaning, hey, You don't have to take leave, but we'll give you orders to go somewhere. And we're not going to pay for it because we don't we're not going to waste government money or spend government money on what you want to do, but we'll let you go do it. So I got no cost orders basically. See what team once said, hey, you can go up and train. And so I did that. This is at the old Pico Street Academy. And it was weird. The Pico Street Academy was kind of a

a, it was like a dance studio or something where they would lay down mats. And I went up there. I think I ended up staying up there for nine days. I stayed at some crappy hotel around the corner. And when I got there, Hickson wasn't teaching. So I go there and I, you know, hey, I want to train. And the guy that was there, Le Mans, who's, you know who that is, right? Yeah.

Yeah. What's the Harris? What's his last name? Oh, I don't know. I just know. Miss Le Manson. Right. So, LeMole, awesome jiu-mong, awesome black belt.

you know, Hicks and Gracie Black Belt. And so he's teaching and he's, you know, and I was coming from Fabio Santos, who's another Hickson Black Belt. And, you know, my, my original instructor in Jiu-Jitsu where, you know, he made all kinds of incredible Jiu-Gi-Gi-Gytoe. You know, you got just all kinds. Greg Train, Dean, Higgs, James, Craig Cole.

I mean, all kinds of really good, high-level guys coming out of Fabio. And then there's a whole, there's like another generation of Blackbelts that came out of Fabio, too, who are all awesome guy, Tino and just a bunch of really good guy, Eric. Anyways, Le Mans was another Hickson Black Belt, and he was sort of the instructor at the school. So I get up there and I'm taking the classes.

And he teaches two classes a day or maybe three classes a day. So I'm just taking three classes a day while he's teaching, you know, one's in the day. And he has one in the afternoon. He has one at night. And I'm taking all the classes and I'm learning, you know, his style. And at this time, honestly, the styles weren't. If you go to a different school now, you can, there's a little bit more variance in styles between schools at this time man it was all closer to the source right so all the

styles were so it was closer to now now we're actually getting beyond that because now with youtube and everything and everyone competing so much all the time there's a much quicker transfer of energy but five years ago eight years ago when you went to a different school there was a much different style but at this time 20 years ago there was there was you know it all came from the same source hickson so it It was much more similar. So I'm going to these classes two, three times a day, and there's 10, 15 people, you know, and they're good.

You know, we're all probably about the same. You know, there might have been a purple belt or two. And Lamont was awesome, super cool guy, real casual guy. And so that's what the classes were like, super casual. We'd lay out the mats on the wooden floor in the dance studio, and then we'd train and shoot the breeze. Kind of like a jih Tzu class just laid back, a little stretch, maybe learn a move or two, had some roles. A little bit more relaxed, Fabio Santos runs,

he's more old school and more regimented. You know, Fabio, you're like going to get in there. You're going to do your warm up. And then you're going to learn some moves, and then you're going to train. Lemo was a little bit more laid back, cool, chill, teaching really good stuff. So that's Monday and then Tuesday and then Wednesday.

And then LeMont, you know, in the afternoon on or in the evening on Wednesday, or I think it was. I figure what day, what was like Wednesday or Thursday. I think it was Wednesday. He's like, hey, Hickson's going to teach tomorrow night. And I was like, awesome, right? So I come in Thursday night. I'm pulling up in my 1990, whatever, like Dodge Caravan pull up and minivan man.

And there's like cars, more cars. And I was like, hmm. So now I walk in and it's, it's, there's people everywhere, right? It's crowded. It's crowded. It went from like 10. or 12 people in a class. Now we,

there's like a hundred people there. I'm serious. We had to lay out like all these different mats and everyone is quiet. No one's talking. It was, I was doing it. So Hickson's there and he's,

you know, like in a corner. You know, just cool, chill. And he looks at Limon and he, you know, gives him like a head nod. in the moment's like okay we're warming up and I was like okay so everyone gets in the line and we start doing the old school jitza we're running in a circle silence like no one's saying anything it's just silence

and so you could feel the presence of hickson there's a hundred people now and there's 10 times as many people and everyone's quiet everyone's serious and then you know we get done with like a 20 minute warm up of stretching and exercise Guys just getting after it. And then he gets done. He gets us all in the circle.

And the circle's huge. And then, you know, Hickson, like, walks out into the middle of the mat. And then he sits in the center. And, like, you can hear a pin drop. It was that, it was that awesome. And then he taught class. He taught class. And I took notes.

And maybe at some point, we can go through all. those notes that I took, but there's one of the most important lessons that I learned about jujitsu as a whole. I learned that during that time. And I actually, the way Hickson told it, I've translated into my own way of saying it, but believe me, it's close. Like, what it was, what it is, is this, okay? And you've probably heard me, I teach this to this day, is if you're playing basketball or you're playing soccer, I think soccer is what Hickson used as the example. If we're playing soccer and I want to, or if we're playing football because you played football, if I faint to the left, right, you as a defender, you have to react to me. You if you don't move to the left, I'm just going to go left and you're going to be lost.

So when I fake to the left and now you move, I can quickly adjust back because I'm one step ahead of you. It was a fake. It wasn't a full commitment. So I can get by you because when you move your weight, your weight is a real thing. And you have to place it into the ground. And when you put your weight into the ground, it takes a quarter of a second to pull that weight back off the ground and put it in the other direction. So the difference in Jiu-Jitsu, the guy on the bottom, when you fake me, I don't have to put my weight anywhere. My weight does not have to follow you if you're on the bottom.

The guy on the bottom in Jiu-Jitsu, he doesn't, if you, if you shuck and jive, my weight, I don't have to plant my weight. That's really hard to like faint one way and then run the other way. It doesn't really work. Can you do it? Yeah. But it doesn't work consistently in J-Giv-Gi-Giv-Gy. Jiu-jitsu and so that was this huge lesson to me that I've always remembered and what and the other part of it is was the hip movement and how to move your hips on the bottom and if you don't move your hips on the

bottom you're you're gonna get your guard passed and if you don't control the hips when you're passing then you won't be able to pass the guard so I have a real I had a real focus for a long time of how to keep my hips mobile on the ground so that people couldn't pass my guard. And it's something that I still concentrate on. And when you're passing the guard, if you, and again, this is another thing you might hear me tell people like,

oh, you got control my legs. Cool, you didn't control my hips. And you can control my legs, you can put pin them on the ground, I can still move my hips eventually. It'll be a little bit more tricky, but I can do it. So those were, those two points

that I learned from Hickson, I, I really focused on them for a long period of time. And so that was awesome. And then, of course, I rolled with Hickson because I was friends with Fabio, and Fabio told him I was going to be there. And so he was a great guy and, you know,

rolled with me. And like I said, I was a blue belt. And I was a good blue belt, right? Meaning when I rolled with, when I rolled with brown belts and black belts, which there weren't a lot of at the time, I did really good. You know,

I mean, we were all competitive at Fabio's school at that time. You know, us guys that were really hardcore, because Dean at this time was, he might have been a blue belt or a purple belt, but we were the guys. Higgs was a purple belt at the time.

So we were the guys. And, you know, when guys would come from Brazil off the competition circuit to come and train at Fabio's when they'd stop by, you know, those guys would have a brown belt's,

black belts, are going against Dean Lister and Higgs. I mean, those guys were not getting, it was, you know, Dean and Higgs were awesome. Dean was phenomenal. Higgs was phenomenal. And I was in the mix with those guys, you know. So we were good, is what I'm saying.

So what did it feel like to roll with Hickson? I thought about this, and I thought about a way to describe it, and this is the way I am going to describe it. It's going to be hard to imagine, but try and imagine it. Okay. If you ever felt very quick, large amount of very quickly rolling water or flowing water.

Yes. So a river, a giant hose, a pipe with water, like coming out of it. And when you stick your hand, like you can't barely resist it, that much water. So imagine that feeling of force, but it's not going fast. It's going slow. It just, it don't, you can't stop it. And wherever you, but just like water. So it's like that much force.

but just like water wherever you go to stop it it just goes around it and it was that's that was what what it was like and um really really just phenomenal jiu jit-sue and i mean even at that time and remembering back to it it was another level of jiu-jitsu for sure that was was awesome now so yeah that's that's rolling with hickson i still actually i got some mutual friends with hickson and uh i i see him occasionally. And, you know, the cool thing about Hickson is he's got a personality that I would love to tell you that he's, you know, like a stereotypical peaceful warrior master that seems content with where he's ended up in life and with his experiences in life.

but with Hickson I get the feeling that he's a guy that fighting is in his blood right and even though he's a mellow guy and he has nothing to prove to anybody I think

and it kind of feels like the way I feel he likes the taste of blood you know what I mean and even though even though I'm kind of the same way Like I feel like you know I'm pretty mellow I mean I don't I don't have anything

I'm not trying to prove anything to anybody I guess maybe I am in some ways But I'm pretty mellow But I still I like the taste of blood And I love that feeling of combat And that's kind of what you sense That's what I sense from Hickson And so yeah awesome

And maybe we'll have him on here sometime Hicks and Grace. He does have that mystique. It is crazy how that is. You know, and it's because it's real. Yeah. Because it's real. You can go and like I said,

Google Hicks and Gracie stories, Hicks and Gracie black belt stories. There are stories where he would line up 10 black belts and say, I'm going to submit you all with an arm lock on your right arm. And he would do it. Yeah.

And he would do it. And that's, and so, yeah, that builds you some mystique. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One time I went, I was going to film with him, just like a quick video clip.

It's me and Halleck. So we went to Crohn's Academy, Chrome Gracie's Academy. And so I get there and he's there already. You know, and he'd. So guys were leaving. They were done training. Guys were leaving. And Hallick's like, hey, I'm going to be like 45 minutes to an hour late.

So it's just me and Hicks in there. And the whole, like everyone's going. on. So he's like, yeah. I was like, oh, yeah, I'm here to film. No, I was there to film, man. I would have been, hey, you got your geese? He had his geese.

He had his glee. I was scared. I submitted to the mystique. But no, we're, you know, we were waiting for Halleke. Oh, yeah, howluck to me later, whatever. He was like, yeah, yeah, I know he told me or whatever. So he's like, he's kind of just there looking at me. So we just sit down.

I got to talk to Hicks and Gracie for like 50 minutes. Yeah. Just about whatever, you know? And he's kind of looking at me like as if to say like, so what up? You know, who are you? Yeah, no, he's now, man. You know, like all cool, but he was still Hicks and Gracie. So my mind kept while we were talking, my mind kept going into like jumping outside of my brain and thinking like, look what you're doing right now.

You're sitting with Hicks and you know how like after we roll and we don't have anywhere to be, we'll be just talking about stuff just sitting there. Most people that's how. And I was doing that with Hicks and Gracie. Just me and him. Bro, that's crazy, right? Yeah. I mean, you know, as someone who knew, I know who that is from the beginning,

even before I even started Jiu-Jitsu. I know who that is. So yeah, man, I was like, how I. You know what else is funny, too, is that night, back in the day, he brought his sons with him. So Hawkson was there, and Cron was there.

Cron was a little tiny kid, man, tiny kid. And Fabio told him that I was in the SEAL teams and stuff, and that's, you know, so he had a little conversation. That's another funny thing. He said, And so when we got done rolling, and we were talking, like yours is saying, and he says to me, he goes, you know, I said, hey, thanks for roll or whatever. He goes, yeah. He said, you're, you're very comfortable in bad positions.

Hey, right off. I'll take it. I'll take it. I do this too sometimes when people used to ask me, hey, what was it like rolling with Hicks? And I'd say, okay, let me get in your guard. And then I'd get in their guard and then say, okay, now. And then I'd say, okay, now just relax and let me pass. And then I would just pass their guard and mount.

And I'd say, that's what it feels like. Yeah. Yeah. I train with Dean all the time. And so, you know, there's no one that I roll with on a regular basis. I roll with some really good guys. But when Dean is mounted on you or when Dean is on side control on you, it is insufferable. It's a bad position.

It's a bad position. And especially because, like, I'll roll with other really high level guys that aren't from our school. And when I roll with them, if they get a position like that, they don't know. know exactly my every little escape. Dean knows exactly. He knows all 14 of my escapes. He knows them all.

So you're more trapped. I'm more trapped. And it's the same with him when I get to position. I know what he's going to do. I know. And so he and I joke about it. You know, but neither one of us want the other person to be,

especially a cross side. You know, and we don't want that. Yeah. But actually, I guess it's an accident, asking too, if you can take punches.

Well, for sure. It is. Being comfortable in bad positions in Jiu-Jitsu is kind of like back when you're talking about the, when you're in water and things are going bad. Don't panic. Don't panic. So if you're comfortable in bad positions, that's like you have the ability to, yeah, to not panic.

And that helps so much because when you panic, you gas, you're, and you make stupid mistakes. Oh, yeah. And Jiu-Jitsu, you make stupid mistakes. So yeah, man. I'm just going to push this leg out of here. Oh, now he's grabbing my arm.

Yeah, yeah. He wanted you to do that. It's good. Compliment. All right. Next question. In podcast 54, the armed forces officer. Remember that book?

The Armed Forces officer. Yeah. One of my fakes. It's 1950 edition. Yeah. Can you expound on the difference between these two seemingly contradictory quotes from the manual? A firmhold at the beginning pays tenfold dividend of the timid approach followed by a show of firmness later on from General Malone's story of World War I compared with. And General Malones, if you remember, the story was there was a messed up unit.

And he went in there was like, all right, get squared away. Get these boards in place. Get out of the mud. You need to get your uniforms together. Just tighten them up out of the gate. Like firmness, right? Firmness right out of the gate. Yeah.

And then compared to, okay, here's a quote, it's a mistake for an officer on taking a new post to order sweeping changes affecting the other man in the belief that this will give him a reputation for action and firmness. the studying of situations is the overture of the steading of it. And that's from General LeMay. And General LeMay, if you remember that one, he said, hey, none of you guys would be in these positions unless you were doing things right. So I assume that you're doing a good job and we're going to continue what you're doing.

That's what he said when he took over. So what's going on here is you've got two completely different situations. And the two situations are, one is a guy taking over for a situation, a known bad situation, the troops are lacking discipline. They're not executing the mission. And if you remember for that story, they weren't even doing basic military bearing. They weren't saluting the officers.

They just had thrown everything out the window. That's a situation where you've got to come and you've got to get firm out of the gate. That's what you got to do. Now, they got to know that things are going to change. They got to know it's real. They got to know there's a new plan and they got to know what that new plan is. And then they got to know that there's new standards and they got to know what the new standards are.

Boom and it's the same thing you know Hackworth He did that he came in with some you know if you remember when he took over the the hardcore battalion What became the hardcore battalion the first thing he did was like all those radios and guitars and all this crap that you have sitting around base put it all in the middle of the base tomorrow and we're getting rid of it all That was a big change now Hackworth Then he then he started implementing two changes a day if you remember Hey got to get everyone carry your weapon at all times that's the next change okay get your helmet okay now we got to get helmet covers on he just made one one or two small changes a day after he made some big

sweeping changes out of the gate because it was a jacked up battalion and now now the difference is if you're going into a situation where everything's going fine or okay or at a bare minimum it's like normal well then you don't need to step in there and show that you're the man by making these sweeping changes you don't need to do that it comes across it comes across like the people that you just took charge of have no idea what they're doing and you know you don't respect what they what they what their methodology you don't respect their their performance because you're coming in and saying oh echo by the way the way you report cord the podcast you need to get rid of those microphones you need to edit it tighter your basis to you know what would you be thinking if

I came in and said that you know mean a little bit different but you know I understand your point point being if somebody comes in and starts criticizing you right when you're doing okay when you're doing a good job you're doing a good job yeah me i think you're doing a good job thanks there's some people that get on you about that base occasionally that's you that's really on you you know you're talk higher base but yeah you know extreme ownership on my part so that's the thing if that's the decision you got to make and guess what it's not black and white you don't go into some units it's not like you're going to get a choice between a unit that's doing horrible and a unit that's doing great. You're going to get everything in between. And therefore, you have to modulate your

leadership to reflect. If it's a group that might have a tendency of being a little bit jacked up and they're getting close, guess what? Got to be maybe not sweeping changes, but you might need to make a little statement. Right. If it's a group that's performing awesome, fantastic, top, top team, top whatever, you might need to come and say, hey, guys, I see that you're doing great. I'm here to just keep you guys doing what you're doing. Let me know what you need to support. Boom. And it could be anywhere in between that spectrum.

That's why leadership is challenging. Because you've got to be able to have nuance. You've got to be able to modulate. You're going to figure out where that is. And you've got to test it out too. Once you give that sweeping order, you've got to see what kind of reaction you got. You know, you've got to see the people just instantly rebel. Okay, then let's talk this.

Let's get some feedback. What's going on? Clearly we have a disrespect scenario going on. We need to get the bottom of us. Let me get some key leaders in here. Let me talk to them and get some feedback, which you should do that before you make any sweeping changes anyway. You've got to at least talk to the key leadership.

Get them in the game. Get them on board. That's why leadership is awesome. That's why this stuff is so fun because it's challenging. It's different every single time. Yeah, it feels like, kind of like what we were talking about earlier, where if you start to understand the formula,

all the different details that come out, You can kind of apply the formula in one way and even then still dynamic, but, but you can, you can just get a better grasp. It's just like jujitsu. If you understand the concept that you have to be able to move your hips, there's a bunch of different ways you can get your hips moving. If you understand the concept that you need to immobilize the hips to pass the guard, if you understand that concept, there's all kinds of different ways you can do it. If you understand the concept of totally jacked up team is going to need a sweeping change to get their attention and get them to understand that things are going to change and what they were doing was unacceptable. if you understand that concept that that's what it's going to take,

you can apply it all the way through those gradations, all the way down to, hey, this team is doing great, and I don't need to change much. I just need to give them the support that they need. Conceptual instruction. Very important. Solid.

Next question. Joko. I recently listened to the Strategic Con podcast while on my way to coach lacrosse. And I was impressed how many of the points made between both Maurice and your experience. as an operator translated into the field. Another point of the cast that stuck out,

and now I reflect on as learning experience and coachable moment for myself, was the saying of good work when we recently battled through the first half. The game, lacrosse game. It was a grudge match. Actually, in this one, he's talked, I edited a little bit out of this

because he had a really long email, and we believe in brevity around here. So he's actually now talking about a soccer match, grudge match that they're playing. plan. Okay. So boom, they had a hard first half. It was a grudge match very evenly played until the half when I told the boys they were doing good work out there and that we were matching their intensity and putting pressure on them. Then the first 30 seconds of the second half we were scored on due to lack of intensity and follow through. I suspect it may have been from my good job,

quote unquote, good work, keep it up. Talk we had at the halftime. My question to you is, how does one enforce the fact they were hitting hard out there, give them some words of encouragement, and send them back out without taking a hit in intensity. As a coach of freshman high school boys who are basically wild dogs and need direction plus support, what could I have done different to keep the intensity up in the second half and even after getting scored on? So this is pretty simple, and I've actually talked about this before. I've talked about it with regards to MMA, and I've talked about it with regards

to my seal platoon, my seal task unit, and that is that you have to be very careful with praise. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because in the example that I give in the corner of MMA fights is if you tell a guy, hey, good job, you won that last round. Just keep doing what you're doing. He's going to back off. Yeah.

He's going to back off. And guess what the other corner's telling him. You lost that round. You need to step it up. You need to get aggressive. And that's what they're going to do. They're going to get out there. because I'll tell you most people in an MMA fight,

MMA fight is a, it's like wrestling. It's a very intense cardio activity. Everybody's going to be tired, just about everybody, obviously. So when you get two guys, well, let me rephrase that. When you get two guys that are evenly matched and are going at it hard, they're both going to be tired. And so they're going to want a little bit of a rest. So if you give them that opportunity to back off the throttle just a little bit,

subconsciously, they're going to do it. Because they think they're doing good. They think that won that last round. So you can see that all the time. You see, I mean, it happened, it happened with Rhonda. You know, they're saying, hey, good job, good job. You're looking good. And she's getting crushed.

I mean, that's kind of a bad example, I guess. But anyways, you got to be careful that. And I've told this story before, but when my task unit was going through training, and we were doing CQC, so close quarters combat drills, We're going in the killhouse over and over And you know We broke for lunch or something We come back from lunch and the guy that the cadre

They're like hey You guys are kicking ass This is great. Keep it up You guys are the best task You know we've seen out here You guys are crushing it And literally the next run guys go in the house They screw everything up

They miss targets Just a disaster And I talk to the contrary I'm like don't ever tell my guys again That they're the best guys in the world Don't tell them that You can tell them good job, but don't be telling them they're the best people in the world. It just doesn't work.

And so that's kind of what happened here. Now, the thing is, this doesn't mean that you can never give anybody credit or never give anyone praise because you absolutely have to do that. But what you have to do, you have to proactively counteract the mental lapse in intensity that's about to take place because you just compliment them. So how do you do that? So let's say you're on the lacrosse field or the soccer field. You bring the boys in. You say, look, guys, good half. Good first half.

You took it to them. You showed them that we can hang with them. You played them even. That's fine. Here's the problem. Even isn't good enough. We need to get out there and play harder. We need to step it up.

I actually want you guys to play like murderers. That's what I want you to do. I want you to win every loose ball. I want you to make every tackle. I want you to get your head on every ball that's in the air. You stick to them on defense. I don't even want them to be able to breathe. I want you to work them into the ground.

I want pressure. Pressure up front, pressure in the midfield, and pressure on D. You make them fight for every inch, every ball and every breath. I want you to go out there and take their souls. So you got to counter that. You know, you got to counter the good job. thing. So in MMA, it's the same thing. You know, hey, good round. It was a close

round, but a good round, but listen, you can't let up right now. You need to step it up. He knows he has to step it up. I'm telling you, he knows he's got to step it up. And if you come out weak, he's going to get the upper hand right away. You need to put him away. You need to go out there and crush him. Crush his soul.

Turn it on and put this guy away. I want you to kill him. So that's what you need to do with that. Now for tactical training, same thing. Because, you know, I know this is police officers and SWAT teams and guys that are in the military. You're doing tactical training all the time and you're going to see that as the team comes together, they're going to start to do good. But like I said, if you give them too much, they're going to slack.

Right. So, you know, when you're running your tactical training, for your guys, you say, look, hey, guys, I see some good progress out there. we're making some good runs, but let me tell you, it's not good enough right now. Okay, this is the deal. The enemy can rely on luck. We can't. We rely on our training. We train to be prepared for anything that the enemy throws at us.

So we're going to work as hard as we can and be as perfect as we can. So we are ready for the worst case scenario. So get jocked up for another run right now. And I want you to go in there like a, band of bloodthirsty Viking shock troops on a damn berserker rage and crush this. So you want to bring that kind of counter, right? And then in combat, again, and I just was talking to some guys yesterday, and it's the same thing right.

Complacency is the worst thing that can happen with your team when you're in a combat scenario. So when you're in combat, you know, it's look, hey guys, we're running some good operations. right we got the upper hand and that's good but it's not good enough we cannot be complacent and we can't take our foot off the enemy's throat we are going to be relentless we are not going to give him the chance to regroup he will not get the chance to recover there will be no downtime for the enemy and I'll tell you what I don't even want the enemy to have a chance to bury their dead we are not

not going to stop until there is nothing left to pursue and no one left to bury. So sharpen up your knives, load up your magazines, because we got work to do. So again, we got to counter, you know, the compliments and balance essentially what I'm doing in each one of those situations. I'm balancing the positive affirmations of what is happening with some new goals and new objectives that will ensure that there will be no slack. No slack. So the guy said that there were ninth graders, freshmen.

Yeah, freshman. Wild dogs. Yep. So, yeah. Next question. How do you detach without seeming completely cold? Important question. I'm saying this all the time.

You know, you got to detach. I also say all the time, if you detach from all your emotions, that means you're a robot and people don't follow robots. I say it all the time. So when you do detach, you can't completely step away. But if you do, you have to do a little acting. Now, first of all, we already talked about this, right?

We already talked about these red flags that show that you're going to lose your temper, that you're going to get emotional about something, you know, your clenched fist and your raised voice and your heavy breathing and your flared nostrils and all that stuff right so you know what those things mean those things mean those things your your signal that mean detach okay so you got to work on that now here's the dichotomy of it is once you are there and once you have detached you actually have to now go back and do one or some of those things that are trying not to do you have to go and you have to do them a little bit in a nice little controlled manner right maybe you raise your voice a little bit maybe you

just kind of clench your jaw and and remember I said to you like like nodding your head in a positive way and that's a that's when you if you're coming to me with an issue and I nod my head to the affirmative you know up and down saying yes I understand yes I understand that's a soothing thing to your team right they see that you're you're okay with it. The opposite of that is when you shake your head in the negative. Like if you're telling me some problem and I'm shaking my head, it's like,

I'm me going, damn, I can't believe this is going on. Right? So maybe that's another thing that you, you know, you clench or drawn, you shake your head to just show the person like,

look, I know we're in a bad way. I get it. I'm not sitting back here like it's no big deal. I know it's going to be a tough. I know we just lost a sale or I know we just, you know, are going to have to plan another mission that we just got back.

I understand that it's hard. You care? I care. You know, I'm with you. You want to give that. Maybe you let out that little sigh of frustration, you know, like a little, like something like that, right? Just going to do that little thing.

Just do that. Just showing that you do got some emotions and you are invested and all that stuff. And then once you see that you've achieved your goal here, that you can see that they see that you have some emotions on the situation, then you quickly get yourself to recover from that. Composed. You get yourself composed. And you've shown them and they've seen,

it's almost like a little, they see like a little weakness and they go, okay, you know, Jocco's are human. They can relate. Yeah, I can relate. He's mad, but you know what? I actually want him to calm down. I actually am glad he's so good.

I mean, he's into it, but I'm glad he's calming down. That's good. Okay, so then you recover, you go back to your calm, cool, collect his self. right that's what we're gonna do now like I said this is do we call this acting I guess maybe we could call it acting but the same time acting means you're trying to pretend to be somebody right you're not trying to pretend to be anybody else you're

being you that's all you're being you're just acting like yourself just showing a little bit more of the emotion and then you would be if you were just completely detached so it's not like you're trying to act like some you know seven days junior yeah you're not trying to do to play a role if someone else

you're just being you so and you already know what you do because you've learned how what the signals are so when you know that you raise your voice and that means you're like okay you just raise your voice a little bit

if you know that you just give a little sides it's those careful things and so yeah I guess it is acting in a way but it's not full on anybody can do it I think yeah yeah you did

I think that's great. This is my opinion. You do it with your kids. You know? I mean, like, oh, I mean, I'm, you know, my kids. Yeah, you got to pretend to act. Yeah, you know, you're mad or whatever. Any good, even happy.

Even. Pretend to act happy? Bad father. No, okay, we'll say excited. Yeah, yeah. Hey, I got something for you. It's a drawing of a happy face. Same as she did yesterday.

You know? It's like, I'm not, the honest truth is, I'm excited about. about other things. We'll just say that. Bro. I'm going to give it. All that love you got for crying about the daughter getting killed or that letter, you're going to, you're going to, it's all going backwards now. People are going to hate you now. No, bro. I'm talking about excitement.

Dude, your daughter draws you a beautiful picture and you don't care about it. It's cold-blooded. What I'm going to give her is a lot of excitement. I'm going to match her excitement, maybe even go one level higher. That's what I'm going to give her. So what am I acting? I'm excited about a lot of other things. A little bit though. Right? Same thing.

Same thing. Same thing. Same thing. Same thing. Yeah. I know. Is it a form of manipulation? It might be a little bit of form of manipulation.

But again, if you're doing it to help the individual and you're doing it to help the team, then is it manipulation or is it leadership? I say, of course, it's leadership. You're not manipulation. Is I'm trying to fool you so you do things that I want you to do that can hurt you. Yeah. We're not doing that. It's not what we're running here. Next question.

Next question. Please discuss how discipline in one area doesn't make up for slack in other areas. For example, a fitness guru who has no savings. Yeah. You know, this is something that we all have to work out, watch out for, is the fact that we focus on our strengths, right? That's what we do. That's what people do. So you get a person that's smart,

a really intellectual person, and they let themselves go physically. Right, right. You know, or you get a person that's a physical stud, but then they're not going to challenge their brain power. Or like the question that was, you know, the example here that was posed,

you know, someone that's a fitness guru or a party guru. I'm throwing that one out there because some people are really good at that. Sure. Or they, you know, they're an entrepreneur common entrepreneur and so they're driving a new Mercedes but it's leased and they're behind on payments right so unstrategically yeah yeah yeah that so you know I mean you take another

example is what about the business person that doesn't have time for their family right yeah and so that's not good so I think the focus here is we try and we all have to be try to be well-rounded and not focus so much on one area that you're going to let some other area go. That's target fixation is what that is, right? You walk into a room and you get fixated on one target, one bad guy. You think there's one bad guy. So you focus all your energy and then you're getting flanked. That's target fixation. You can't let that happen. You can't let it happen on the battlefield. You can't let it happen on life. So look out for that when you do this. And I'll tell you, this is actually a reality of the situation.

I try and maintain this balance, but I've been actually working a lot lately. And this is a clear indicator to me that I've overbooked myself is last week we had to skip a day of Jiu-Jitsu to record. I mean, we don't do that, right? When do we record? We record after Jiu-Jitsu. But I knew I had so much stuff going on that I said,

hey, we got to record it this time because I got to get this other stuff done because I'm traveling and this and that. And so we had to skip the jiu jits. So that is a red flag to me that says I need to tighten up. I need to get my schedule back and check so that I can do the things that I need to do.

Of course, what do I say about the situation? It's fine. You know what? Can't train jiu-jitsu that day because I got some travel coming up. Good. I'm going to heal up my shoulder a little bit more. I'm gonna you know I'm gonna it's it's fine but it is an indicator of when things start going in

the wrong direction maybe I'm getting target fixated on you know too much work at a certain time which to me again I will run this thing in the red as you say I like I like running in the red right I'm in the red and I got no problem like we will go hard and the numbers of hours I've been I will work, we'll have actually no impact on how much I'm going to spend with my family and do Jiu-Jitsu and all that stuff because I'll just do it all. But there is a capacity that you reach where you go, okay, now one of these things that has just started to slide,

now I need to make sure that my levels get re-leveled, I guess you might say. Equalized is what I should have said. So back to the subject, don't be a one-trick pony, you know, be a jack of all. trades and then master a few of those trades. So you can emphasize fitness guru. You can emphasize intellectual power.

You can emphasize jujitsu, but don't put 100% of your effort into one area because eventually it will take, you won't have anything else. And by the way, if you put all your, you know, if you put all your, all your, all your eggs in the, basket of intellectual power now you're unhealthy and you die right that that doesn't

you know I don't care how smart you are you can't do two plus two when you're dead so don't put all your focus a hundred percent into one area don't become unbalanced in your disciplines spread it around and hold the line yeah man it's good yeah it kind of feels like like like you can be understood that um let's say i'm real good at i don't know fitness and it's easy to justify yourself you know like you're you're let's say okay i'm real good at fitness you know i'm a fitness and i go around and then i see i don't know i go to the store or go to some party and i see this other guy who's like socially he's just 100% everyone likes me such a nice charismatic guy

He makes a lot of money, you know, and all this stuff. But he's not in that good a shape. Or, I don't know, he smokes and whatever, you know. It's easy. I think a lot of people, it feels like it's easy to justify, well, that guy's in bad shape, so who cares? I wouldn't want any of that. I wouldn't want all the money, you know, all this stuff. It seems like you can justify that.

And you know what the other guy's saying? Yeah, you might be in good shape. Guess what? Yeah. Nice Toyota, Corolla. You're driving. He's all negative on him. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So both those guys should instead of saying, hey, you know what they should do? Walk up and be like, hey, man, you know what? I notice you're pretty successful financially. I would like to get in the game with you a little bit and learn from you about that. And the other guy should say to him, well, you know what? It looks like you're in pretty good fitness levels. I would like to get in the game with that. Let's work together and improve ourselves and go out and kick ass and dominate.

Are you in? I'm in. Let's do this. Instead, what does a normal person do? They do exactly what you said. Justify, criticize, cut people down instead of building them up. Yeah. And what you have to be careful of, if I was to go to you and say, hey, you know, Echo, I got a lot of money.

I can tell you don't have a lot. I'll help you out. That can be offensive to some people. Yeah. Because you think, dude, who you think you are? Yeah. You don't need your help. I'm not worried about money.

Yeah. You think I'm worried about money when I got abs like these? Yep. So what we have to do is instead of, if I came to you and said, Echo, dude, I want abs like you got. Sure. Can you help me get in the game? And then we form a little relationship.

And now I say to you, man. So what, what's your main income stream, dude? You know, what are you doing? And you say, well, you know, I got these two clients. Do you got a website? No, not really. Why don't you have a website? Do you got any social media to advertise?

You know, and we go through that road and we build up. We take care of each other. That's what we want to do as people. Yeah. Kind of like you ever seen the guys who go, they see like a football player or something. I'll be like, I kick his ass though. You know, you know that kind guy? The guy who can always like some successful person, ah, he, I kick his ass though.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've told the story before in the SEAL teams. It's a, no one, no one is good. All that. If a guy, like, we have guys in the SEAL teams that are literally, you know, world class athletes in whatever. world-class triathlet world-class

sailor world-class whatever and so oh you oh you're your world-class triathlet oh yeah

that guy's really good triathlet that's cool he's a really bad shot someone is going to chime in and cut him down just the way it goes yeah

no slack no slack no slack no slack right we'll go one more I think so yeah

uh jaco would you confront an individual team member when reported by other team members that they're talking smack about you or would you just ignore old classic here what do you do about the about the negative guy that's trying to bring you down and sure you can you can confront them right and you can by doing that join in their in their little game and in in doing that You give them the satisfaction. They now know that they got into your head. And then you're turning your workplace into, you know, your basic grade school gossip hall.

So we don't like that. But now there are times, unfortunately, that you have to address things. And when you do it, you do it professionally. and you do it, your goal is to disarm them. Because remember that this negative person inside, they probably want the confrontation. That's what they want. And so, you know, you say something like,

hey, I heard you had some critique points for me about how I'm doing my job, you know, if I'd love to get your feedback so I can tighten up my game. So you just disarm them a little bit. And something like that will likely diffuse the scenario a little bit. And, you know, hopefully the people will under the person will understand that there are other people that are telling you what's going on. It'll kind of put them in check and stifle the situation. But the preferred methodology for this situation for me is quite simple.

And that is ignore and outperform them. You see, while you're over there watching me and talking about me, I'm working. I'm working hard. I'm taking things to the next level. You keep gossiping and I'll keep working. You keep talking smack and I'll keep working. You keep focusing on everything and everyone else and I'll keep working. And when you finally look around at where you're,

you are and where I'm at, you'll realize that you have nothing left to talk smack about. And you will lose and I will win. And this here applies to when people are playing office politics or forming their little clicks or working their personal agendas. And again, I know. sometimes you have to play those games but let your first course of action let the fundamental core of your reaction be to outwork and outperform every last one of them and I think that's all I've got for tonight

So echo Charles. Yes. Speaking of work. Do work. Why don't you just go ahead and put in some work right now and let everybody know how they can support this podcast if they want to? Yeah, if they want. Actually, you know what I'm talking about?

I'm talking about the work I did today. Macon, lifting all that. Anyway, we'll talk about on it. You want to support this podcast. Support yourself on it. what's good by the krill oil it's real it's real and I thought about this like I'm kind of lifting kind of hard and like I do um like squats right just very like different kinds and different weights and do you do overhead squats sometimes yeah it's not a lot of overhead squats

oh yeah not a lot I wouldn't call it a lot but just one that that I do like one that um you can do it all like front squats right or something like that but I go all the way down all the way down. There's no other way to squat. Yeah, well, sometimes, you know, people don't have the flexibility in their feet or their ankles or whatever, or, you know, you're lifting like 500 pounds or something,

going all the way. Anyway, my point is, it can be hard on your knees. It can't, straight up. Those are the facts. It can be. Anyway, and I'm kind of going kind of hard nowadays. Like, pretty much every day, lift and jujitsu, you know, like harder than I have in the past for sure.

And I don't have, anyway, the point is the krill oil. Yeah. The krill oil is real. I don't have any pain. No pain. No pain still gains, though. Like three a day. Three in the morning and three at night?

No, just three a day. Just three a day. Yeah. I do twice as much as you. Well, you're bigger and older. You mean bigger and bigger. Yeah, yeah. Factually older.

Yeah, yeah. And I was thinking zero before. Yeah, yeah. Keep that in mind, too. But yeah, man, it's good. Crill oil. What's fun is when you think supplements, you think like something that's going to make me stronger,

you know, if I take it versus don't take it. Well, I guess cruel, it does make you stronger, but it's like indirect. Yeah, you know.

I've been taking cruel oil for so long. I don't even know what it's like to not take curle oil anymore. Yeah. Dang, it's just one big mystery now. One big path to victory. Yeah. Anyway,

take the cruel oil on it, ecologically friendly. harvesting of krill watch the video on it dot com on it dot com slash jocco if you want 10 percent off pre-workout which is total strength and performance he'll give you more strength and more performance my anecdotal shroom tech proof by the way I got on I had a bunch of like I said I've been working a lot sure been traveling a lot when you're traveling you're getting on planes with a bunch of people that you don't know and they all kinds of germs as do I and so people get sick and I can't be sick and do my job because

I got to go talk to people and meet people and give speeches and all that stuff so I can't be getting sick so I knew I had critical events coming up so guess what I did shroom tech immune yeah I did the shroom tech immune okay powered through yeah you're not sick now no I'm not sick now no training hard surf today so basically and worked out and got after it So dang immune to the sickness So dang there's another one in the rotation Is that where we're saying? Yeah and and yeah

I cycled it Yeah I cycled it because I knew I didn't want to get sick Now I suppose you could just say hey When do you want to get sick? Right Never yeah

Maybe it's something I should take more off Yeah it's one of those things Kind of like a like a back end computer programmer Where you don't really You're not hit by the success of it you're only hit by the failure of it you know so immune stream tech immune you take it you don't get sick you're like all right you know it's cool you know but yeah no like I said a bunch of events back the TED talk and so what am I going to show up to the TED talk coughing can't take that chance

yeah yeah can't take that chance yeah happen no stuff he knows yeah you know what what are you gonna do no you can't do those things you got to show up and have your game yeah so shroom tech immune yeah And these are good because these aren't like, you know how, okay, so let's go cruel oil. Where that works, your joints work. It's not like it's like a cortisone shot where, you know, you just don't feel like when you get off it, you're jacked. You know, or you're back to zero. It's like, this is stuff that like helps your body do it, you know? That's the good part.

Yeah. It's not, it's not a foreign horrible substance that you're going to become reliant on. Reliant dependent. Yeah, man. It's so good. Um, and we're okay. Yeah, they're all good. All of them.

And there's other stuff. There's cool stuff too. The almond. It's like a three nut butter blend. Good. I haven't tried it. It's gourmet. It's too bad.

It's too bad. That's on you, bro. It's good. And, um, yeah, there's a lot of stuff. Look on there. It's protein powder and it's obviously quality protein powder. If you, if you're into protein powder. Um, Shroom tech for performance.

The pre-workout. That's the one. Bro, if you're, if you're lifting and doing hard, workouts get the pre-workout because it's not stimulants not like you know so so I don't because I work out early in the morning as we know and I don't like working out on an empty stomach or on a full

stomach so I work out on an empty stomach in the morning good idea but I and you told me that you might consider this cheating because I will take it pre-jujits yeah yeah you'll look at you like I'm cheating look at this guy

more so it's not it's but it's not cheating at all but then also on top of that I don't do it I'll do it if every heavy hitter is coming to train I'll I'll I'll I'll do it it's a advantage I remember us rolling with I was on a 72 hour fast and I was like almost at the end of it and I did everything normal I didn't change anything I squatted I didn't pull up so did everything normal worked out surf did jiu jihitsu I was at the end of it and I was rolling to big Eric you know judo Eric and I said I'm gonna tell you something when we get done.

So we rolled hard and it was no, it was just the way we normally roll, you know, and got after it hard. And I said, and he said, what were you going to tell me? I said, yeah, I'm on, I'm on the tail end of a 72 hour fast right now. And he's like, well, it didn't seem to affect your performance. And I said, no, I don't think it affects your performance at all. Yeah. Just straight up getting after.

I rolled with somebody and I got him. I forget who. It was a while ago. And then, and I got him. And you could tell he was pissed. Who the hell was it? Anyway, he said, oh, one of the other. the first thing he said, I'm fasting right now.

Yeah. I forget who it. That's, and that is, that is actually why I didn't tell Eric. Right. Because then it's just an excuse me. Also, and also psychological warfare. Right. If I tell him, hey, I'm fasted. I'm in a fasted state.

He might get all tired up. Oh, you might get empowered. No, I'm not going to let that happen. No, no. Jiu-sitzy was, there's a bind. There's a minding. Yeah, jiu-s is going on even before you roll. Yeah.

When you clap hands. Yeah. Give that little bump. That was an aggressive bump. Remember that time right after we rolled? And you said, hey, you know, did you feel that I was like kind of getting tired towards the end there?

And I said, no, you're like, yeah, because I wasn't. You're still proud you are with that right now? That's like your best line to me. I think you think. Well, though that was a good one. Good one. It was pretty good.

It's hard. It's hard to get me tired of jiu-jitsu. Yeah. You know what it is? Partially, it's not all. conditioning too. I just I know how to conserve some energy. Yeah, but you know how, you know what this is what part of it is, if not a major part, you can endure fatigue and tiredness if you're enjoying what you're doing. That's why for a lot of people, the treadmill is just

hell. Even though the treadmill is not that hard, it's like you're going at like a certain, like a low percentage of output. It's just so boring. There's no like payoff. In jujitsu, it's like it's payoff upon payoff upon payoff. You pass someone's guard. Oh my gosh, man. They past your guard you're like what the heck I got to wage my thing you know it's like this this intricate battle you know that meanwhile you're getting super tired I mean you got to get really but you don't get tired when you do jihitsu no no I don't well me I'm in you know great shape and you know all that stuff you have made some incredible strides though on two areas you used to gas out really really bad until until until you started doing met cons in your training in your in your non-jititsu training

you used to gas out really bad yeah number one number two used to get really claustrophobic and not be able to handle that. Yeah. And they were, they kind of play off each other. I cured you of both foes. Once I realized you were claustrophobic, I was a real jerk for a while.

Yeah, you're like test time. Yeah. Yeah. How you like this? Well, yeah, and what's crazy is there's a third element there is because if, you know, you gas quick and then you get claustrophobic, now you're, that's another enemy. The gassing in the claustrophobic.

That's another enemy. So I'm not just going against you and your jiu-jitsu. I'm going against gas. So that makes me even more like anxiety and like you said they're compounding problems. Yes. Because the more tired you get the worst position you get into now you're getting claustrophic now you panic and you're more tired. Yeah and then let that happen one day the next day what I'm what am I scared of now? Yeah it's just it's the swamps of sadness bro all over again. Well you've dug your way out of that pretty good I think the Metcon had a

lot to do with that you did you just what did you just mentally eventually say like okay when Jocko gets side control on me and it holds me there I just need to to relax and just sit there and accept that I'm going to be here for a little while. Yeah. And a big part of it, because sometimes I'd start to get dizzy, like for real, cost. It's not just a feeling of, oh, I'm just so claustrophobic and that's it. I think it was like a for real class because you start to get dizzy and, you know, you know, like you're not like you're about to faint, but, but something like that, you know,

it was that. It was a condition. That's what it felt like. One of my seal platoons I trained with. And, you know, I used to get the guys and train with them all like in a row. and I'd do like 15 minutes of this guy and then 15 minutes of this guy and then 15 minutes of this guy and then 50 and

just go through the platoons and there's one guy and he was super claustrophobic and he would get so mad he'd be you know just get and I'd hold him you know I'd get a cross sider I'd get the mount and just not let him move

put my chest over his face and he would just you know and he would lose it you know and you'd be tapping me like crazy I'm like there's no submission what do that from you can't tap when there's no submission get off me get off me and then you know finally I'd tap him out and then let him go and he'd be like you got to just stay off me and he gets so mad he's kind of

stop training yeah that's the I mean if you have like a condit Dean did that to me back in the when I had he was like mounted then I'd be like like and then I tap he's it you can't tap from that no man I was like man yeah Dean actually it was funny yesterday maybe the yeah he was yesterday the power was going out like momentarily in the gym a few times yeah well before the power started it was going off for 10 seconds certain lights though yeah but so it was killing the clock yes so we were going when the clock was still running and he was doing that to me right and when he tries to make me claustrophobic or tries to get reaction out of me I just go into like complete detachment mental shutdown not not mental shutdown in a negative way but mental shutdown like okay I'm not going to show you

And he, and so he's like, like basically putting his knuckle into my rib. He's mounted smothering me and rubbing his knuckle into my rib. And I'm just laying there, like, taking it and just thinking about other things. And actually I'm thinking, like, when I get it on top, I'm going to kill him. And then the timer ran out, and he kept doing it. And he kept doing it. And he kept doing it for, like, another 30 seconds. And then he laughed and he jumped off.

So then we were going again. and I I got him into got a good position right I got him in the arm lock and I'm sitting there and he's so hard to finish you know

if you don't believe me go watch him go against Jean-Jay in Meta Morse and you know there's Jean-Jet one of the best jiu jitsu practitioners of all time goes for an arm lock on Dean he gets out of it so I'm going for an arm lock on Dean

and the timer goes like it's the end of the round and and he's like oh you can hear him he goes oh because I didn't let go and he goes he goes I said you violated the jiu jihitsu Geneva conventions on the last round and he laughed and then I let him go but uh yeah it's all good that is kind of what that is well the guy tapping and you don't let go that's a violation of the janeva convention for sure the judicistur conventions yeah yeah it's true you can't you can't be breaking those

laws the metcon and getting into condition losing like a little bit of weight or whatever sure it gets in my case it got me in you know better shape and I can you can go longer less classical just in general but the bigger impact was that that's not something I have to worry about anymore dealing with being when I get tired and mentally you become you know what it feels like to be tired because I don't think you knew what that felt like before it was hard to deal with I would say that's how it felt to me like where I'm like, dang, I'm tired. I need to not be tired.

That's the goal now. I don't care about getting tapped out anymore. It's the tiredness is really the fight, the demon here. Not the tapping out. But once you go, the Metcon, like I said, the Metcon and just muscular conditioning in general, it'll, sure, it'll get you in shape. But since you have to kind of do it all the time for it to work, like any exercise, you're used to it.

That feeling, it becomes like common. Exactly. You're inoculated. You're mentally inoculated to. Oh, I'm. I'm out of breath. I'm not. What you used to think was I'm out of breath and I'm going to die.

And now you think I'm out of breath and that's okay. Yeah. I'll recover. Yes. You'll recover in some other position. Yeah. And man, it makes Jiu-Jitsu way funner.

Way funner. You can just go. I went with Andy to 10-minute, you know, with the thing and he's going hard. And it was like, sure, you're,

you know, it's a good, good workout. But it's, yeah, it just makes it way funner. For sure. But yeah,

the point is there. That's why you can endure, tiredness is when you're having a good time when there's little chaos you ever notice even if you don't really roll that you might be different actually no i'm sure you feel this when you go home you feel like the heat radiating from your body still you know even after you go home like dang i didn't really roll that hard because it doesn't feel like it's that hard because it was so like fun you know yeah well i roll hard every single time yeah yeah that's the it's the genius behind it anyway if you want help with your performance was that just

14, 20 minute talk about on it.com slash jaco. Sure. Cool. Yeah, a little bit of some digression, but these are all helpful things, though. Yeah, they are. Very helpful. On it, that's just going to improve your performance straight up. Indeed.

If you want to improve performance, which we do. There's another one. I'm going to go into it. We got some time. So I'm filling up water. You know, you know the big gallons of water. Oh, the five gallons. Yes.

So I go fill up. I got four of it. them. So I put them in the back of my car in the back seat. Yeah. So when I bring them from the water filler thing to my car, I'm grabbing them both and I'm walking across the street. You had two or you had four? I had four, but two at a time. I feel two because there's two like things, whatever. So they're full. I'm walking across the street to, you know, not the street, the parking lot to my car to put them in. And I'm like, this isn't even hard, but they look kind of big, you know. And I'm like, this isn't even hard. It's like, I'm not like stiff. It's not like I'm warmed up,

ready to get after it, you know? I'm like, I'm like, I'm, like okay but then you're walking there I'd handle so it shouldn't be that hard for someone might wait and whatever so I get to the car and I put them in but I'm like hey I need more room to put the other two so I don't just kind of lug them in all perfect for I got to like stretch and put these you know they're five pound jugs so you got to stretch this awkward position but I did it kind of no problem if I went in I've been at times where I'm not in that good of shape my joints are off bro I would have do I would have hurt myself that's how you hurt your back That is how people are their back doing the dumb stuff because they're not in good shape.

Yeah. And that's a lot of times that's really what it is is because your body's not used to like moving all of a sudden like that. But if it is and you got the cruel oil going, that's the kind of things you can do, almost like a superpower. Anyway, if you want these amazing supplements and we know they're the best ones because we all know that. Onet.com slash jocco 10% off. Support yourself. support everyone. Anyway, and if you shop at Amazon,

this is a good way to support. And you know you shop at Amazon. Oh, you know it. Oh, yeah. Big time. Getting books, getting whatever. Click through the website. Again, this is to support.

So go to joccopodcast.com. Little banner, Amazon banner over there on the side. Click on that, then do your shopping. Can support that way. What if you don't think that's a big deal? And you're like, ah, you know what? That's probably not that big video. I'm just going to go right to Amazon without clicking.

That is cool. To me, that's cool. But if you do want to support, but you still think, yeah, that's not that big of a deal. Maybe I'll support another way or something like that. That's cool. But it's not true. That is a big deal.

Yeah. It's a small action. So it may not seem like a bit of it's like, I'll just click through and that's kind of it. But it's a big deal. And it doesn't cost you anything. It doesn't cost you anything. Two seconds of your time.

And Amazon's got some money that they want to give to us as long as you click through. Yeah. They're like, basically the attitude is from Amazon is that's a win, in. They're like, hey, these guys, you know, shoppers are coming to buy stuff from us through Jocko podcast. All right. Cool. Cool. That's good for us. Exactly right. So it's like a circle triangle, three people, three parties, triangle with support. Yeah. Then you get, you know, your stuff. If you got Amazon Prime two days later, one day, sometimes same day. Anyway, Amazon click through. That's a good way to support. And then you can subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already

iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play. Mm-hmm. And various other outlets. And somebody posted that you can, if you have Alexa, do you know what Alexa is? It's Amazon Echo. It's Amazon Echo. Her name is Alexa. And if you have that, I do.

Do you know that you can say Alexa, play Jocko podcast? And then it says back to you, you want to hear the show Jocko. Because they don't, they think that podcast isn't part of the name. because it's artificial intelligence. Gotcha. So just you want to hear the show Jocko and you say yes. And then it says, I'm finding the latest episode. And then it plays Jock podcast.

Oh, so podcast is kind of like a, like a utility word. I want to watch Restrepo movie. Right. And it says, play the song. Yes. But then the song is called Love Song or something like this. Yeah.

Well, the song would probably be called Destroy Planet Earth. Right. In your case, for sure, for sure. Or something like this. Yeah, that thing, that thing is kind of cool. Let's try to ask it. Do you have one? Yes.

Okay. So ask it, what's one plus one? She's going to say the sum of one plus one is two, but I think you already knew that. So they know, you know the little things. Anyway, yeah, that's a good one. Anyway, subscribe to the podcast on iTunes and all the various outlets. If you're not in iTunes specifically. And on YouTube, we do have a YouTube channel.

Put some videos on there. Constantly working on these videos situations. Some take longer, you know, more. more work and whatever time than others but they're out there they're doing it jocco mcnuggets small little clips of the words the advice and philosophies of jaco the TED talk that i did it is on youtube right now yeah so you can google ted jacco willing ted talk or something like that yeah you'll get to see it's good i talked about uh you know war and stuff like that a little concept called the ownership. Nailed it. It's actually good. That's one where you know how you got to condense it down obviously?

Yeah. You have to distill it down. Yeah. That was a good distillation. That was good. Points. Real good. 12 minutes.

Not long. There you go. YouTube. But yeah, subscribe to the, you know, the YouTube channel. We got one of those. Also, Jacco has a store called Jocco store. Ural Jocco store.com. If you're into show.

shirts, discipline equals freedom. Guy in Twitter was like, I like the OG discipline equals freedom. There's only one version of this, but the thing is actually. Yeah. OG the original. The original. Discipline equals freedom. Super simple to the point, if you will.

Good quality. I, you know, made sure that they were good quality shirts. I'm not the kind. You just give away at the ballpark. You know that kind? Yeah. You used to talk about those shirts that you give away at the ballpark. You haven't mentioned that in a while.

Yeah. I'm glad you're back. Speaking of OG, you're going home with your OG examples. I like that. It's true, because that one's cool because, ooh, free stuff, but when you get home, you don't wear it. No, because it sucks. Yeah, it's not good.

It's not wearable. You know that one where your friend gives you the free shirt? They're like, what I did for you? And then you're wearing it's like, it doesn't fit good or whatever. These ones like fit good. They're solid. In fact, this guy Ryan, I know, he said, it's my favorite shirt to wear because it makes me look good.

Like it fits, you know? It's fucking dope. Yeah, I don't. observe stuff like that. Anyway, made an effort, made them, I'm here to win.

Oh yeah, you don't care what you look like. Yeah, that's right. But yeah, they're good. Solid. Look at them.

I'm not saying buy a shirt. Just go to the jocco store.com. Go there. Look at the shirts. You like the shirts. You want to represent? You want to support? Get a shirt.

Get a rash guard. Got some good reviews on the rash guard. Multiple instances of increasing performance and results with the rash guard. Proven. And against Jocko's philosophy, hey, man, they look good, you know. If you care, you know, that you want to look good. Hey, man, there's that element as well, layers.

Yeah. I'm more concerned about the performance than the looks. Yeah, man. So I'll take that 19%. Minimum. 19%. Bonus. You look good to go, I guess.

Yeah. If you're into that kind of thing. Patches. Sure. Patches. the Velcro ones there's a regular kind too but the Velcro one

with the what do you call the color right the regulation yeah the one you can wear I saw shoot I forget his name on Twitter he showed me his patch like collection to the Velcro you know

discipline equals freedom was all up in there it was good it's real good and this one is a big one to support yourself psychological warfare and this is literal like support You know, it's like a spot.

The feedback from everyone out there on psychological warfare, it's 100% effective. See, bro, I told you. Listen to the track, sugar-coded lies. If you listen to that track, you could be in Krispy Kreme Donuts after not eating for three days. And you will go in there, you listen to that track. You will not eat a donut. You will not. No, no, it's true.

It's absolutely true. And the wake-up thing, do something. I was going to say, the wake-up, you will get out of bed. Yeah. Because, this is the thing. You know what's being told to you is true. You know it's true. Yeah, man.

Part of your brain is saying, you know what? It's not true. Yeah. I don't need to get up right now. One donut's not going to kill me. Actually, it is going to kill you. So you're not going to eat it. Yeah.

So psychological warfare. That's a good. good one. By the way, I listen to it. Jocco listening to yourself. Sometimes. Well, you know, I was kind of like, wait, do I actually listen to this? Now I listen to it. Well, it could actually, in a way, be more effective for you because it's really you talking to yourself. Actually me. Yeah. It's like you talking to yourself. It's like your brain is like the voice in your head. It's true. And this is a good one. Just like the krill oil and just like the on it stuff. It's not like like get up and get after it. Like it's not like. It's not like like. Like, wait, let me explain what it is. It's these tracks on an album you can buy from iTunes.

And it's on Amazon other resources. Yes, Amazon music. Yeah, you can just purchase these MP3 tracks. You can play in your phone before you're about to, when you're having moments of weakness. You're going to skip the workout because you don't feel like it. Or you're going to skip. You're going to mess up your diet because you're too hungry and it looks so delicious. Or you want to press snooze on the thing.

You can put it as your alarm or whatever. You buy these tracks and they're for different situations and it'll give you a little spot. We'll say that. Jocko will be there to give you a little spot. Anyway, mental, a mental spot. Yeah, psychological. It'll fight the urge to be a slacker, quitter. But it's good because it's not like the get up and get out.

It scares you out of bed so you'll get out of bed. It's not that. No, it's like psychological worker. Yeah, it tells your mind to think the certain way, you know? So it's really you doing it. It's like a spot. It's not a kinetic strike. It's psychological warfare, which is actually more effective.

Yeah, because you're doing that. It's like the cortisone shot versus the cruel oil. We prefer to let our body do the work. Yes, exactly right. And we prefer to let our mind do the work. If you're getting out of bed because someone's yelling out of you, okay, well, that's okay. But it's better if it's you that gets yourself out of bed

because you use psychological warfare on yourself. Yep, because you did good things. with the information that you were presented with. It's good. And I'll add, I'll give it to you. I'm going to pat you on the back. You know, Pat Jocco on the back. It was psychological warfare.

It was number one. Is it still number one? On iTunes since day one. Well, hey, don't pat me on the back. Thank you, everyone that's gone and bought psychological warfare. Thank you. Yeah. That's awesome.

Yeah, fully. But you got to admit it's like you, you know, you did that thing. Well, no, actually, you got to admit that if no one wanted to. to hear it and wanted to get after it, then I would be talking to myself. So it's like we're like a little group of like, this is a good thing we're doing there, you know, get everybody out of bed and stop eating donuts. Speaking of good things, if you want some jocca white tea, sure, it's in stock. It's on Amazon.

If you're in America, get it on Amazon. If you're in a foreign country, go to eBay, parole resourcing. It's the official listing. You can get it there. you already know what what the tea is going to do for you you already know that you are weak you will become strong you are stupid you're going to become smart you are lazy you're going to become aggressive just going to solve all your problems but you know what that's the side effect because it also just tastes good so which ones you're going to go and i'll tell you what right now

we are assessing and likely going to put jocco white tea in cans oh right like the like an energy drink okay but you know an energy drink doesn't help you right right it's whack yeah this is boom oh you're in 7-11 good stuff like sugar caffeine candy negativity stimulus or boom here you go is there caffeine in joccal white tea yes there is oh yeah a little bit a little bit but it's good for you actually a little bit micro exactly Thank you, Echo. Micro dose. I'm not going to get you all jittery.

So, Jocka White Tea, you can get it on Amazon. When you're on Amazon, you can pick up the book Extreme Ownership by me and my brother Laif Babin. And what's cool is our company, Escalon, Fron, we work with a bunch of different kinds of companies, leadership and management consulting. And it's always cool to see and hear about how the book spreads through those companies. Somebody, you know, somebody heard about it. Somebody heard me on Tim Ferriss or somebody heard me on Joe Rogan or somebody heard me on this podcast. And it gets in there and a guy, it spreads.

It just spreads. You know, a guy buys it for his team and then he buys it for, you know, the CEO, gives him a gift and the CEO buys it for everyone. So it's really cool to see that. And it's cool to see how it helps companies align their culture and align their leadership team. So go out, get it for the people you work with. Give them the tools to lead.

And, you know, the deal is you make a little investment, get in the book. It's 20 bucks, right? You give that book to your key team members. It's going to make your life easier. Return on investment, good to go. And while you're doing that, you can get this book, another book. right here it's um it's called way of the warrior kid and this is the deal this is what we have to watch out for order it now why order it now if you're not going to get it until may

second that's when it comes out here's why if we don't order it now it's going to happen the same thing that's a half with jocco white tea the people that are printing is like oh no one's ordering it so we're not going to you know we'll print 12 copies the day it comes out we're going to get a lot of orders and everyone's going to have to sit around and wait for the thing to be printed so what we're We want to do is give them the indication that, yes, book is coming out. We don't want to end up with jocco white T-style barren Armageddon on our hands with the book. And I'll tell you, it is, you know, it's a book.

It's a kid's a kid's book, admittedly. But I'm going to tell you, Uncle Jake, who's in the book, who teaches his nephew how to get after it. Uncle Jake's got some lessons for everybody about. discipline, about working out, about overcoming fear, about diet and exercise and life. It's a book about life. And should I read? Wait, how did you get that? I know your author, but you got a physical copy right now.

The physical copy that I'm holding in my hands right now is called a galley. And they give you it so that you can see and make sure and you can go through it and correct it. Oh, like a final edit. It's like a final edit. Yeah, yeah. And this one's pretty good. It's pretty close. Give us a little.

Give us a taste. So here we go. So at this point, here's what's going on. At this point, basically the kid, Mark, he's,

like I said, he doesn't know how to do, he can't do any pull-ups, doesn't know his times tables. He's getting picked on at school, doesn't know how to swim. Guess what? He's a 10-year-old kid in life.

Life is hard. He's realizing that. He's bummed out, he's been sad. His Uncle Jake comes to live with him for the summer. His Uncle Jake used to be in the SEAL teams. He's getting out so he can go to college. But during the summer, he's living with his sister. So now when Uncle Jake realizes that Mark has all these issues, like I said, what does he say?

When Mark freaks out and cries and says, I got all these issues, Uncle Jake says, good. We can solve these problems. And then he says, look, you're. not really getting after it. Do you need to be, instead of being this kind of wimpy kid over here, you need to be a warrior kid. And Mark sort of, what's a warrior kid? And so at this point, they're talking about like, do you actually know what a warrior is? And I'll go back to the book right now.

So here's Uncle Jake. Do you even know what a warrior is? and Mark says, yes, I mean, I guess I know a warrior is someone who fights in wars, right? And Uncle Jake says, that is one part, but what else? I'm not sure what else. So do you think that the only way to be a warrior is to fight in wars? And do you think that anyone who fights in wars is a warrior? I guess so.

Well, you guessed wrong. There is a lot more to being a warrior than just being in a war. Warriors are people that stand up for themselves. They face challenges. Warriors work hard to achieve goals. They have the discipline to overcome their weaknesses. Warriors are people that constantly try to test and improve themselves. And yes, war is the ultimate test, but not all warriors go to war.

And then Mark says, but how can a kid? be a warrior and uncle mark says or uncle jake says by doing everything i just said a normal kid doesn't push himself a warrior kid does a normal kid doesn't work to constantly improve himself a warrior kid does i look at all these problems you cried to me about yesterday a warrior kid wouldn't cry about those problems. A warrior kid would do something about those problems. And then Mark says, do what? Do what? Do whatever it takes. Every problem you have can be overcome, every one of them. You can't do pull-ups. You work out and get stronger until you can. You don't know your times tables. You study and train your mind until you know them cold. You can't swim. You learn how. You get

picked on, you learn how to fight. Fight? I asked, yes, fight. Just like anything else in the world, there are techniques to fighting, like learning a sport. And when you know the techniques and practice them, you can defend yourself from anyone. You really think I could learn all that? I know you can. Like I told you last night, I had to transform myself when I got in the Navy.

I had to get stronger. I had to learn to fight. I even had to learn to learn. But I did it. And if I did it, so can you. Do you want to? Do you want to overcome all these challenges you face? Of course.

And then as they wrap up that conversation, they were out in the park when they're doing that. And Mark says, we walked through the park and back to the house without saying another word. Something had already changed. Sounds like we're about to get after it So yeah Fun book

You might want to get after it And also on top of that The book is coming out May 2nd That's cool May 4th and 5th guess what's going on The muster right there Marriott Marquis in New York City Basically two months away from right now So sign up book your ticket

Get your hotel room It's going to be awesome Lave's going to be there. I'm going to be there. Obviously, Leif's going to be there. J.P. is going to be there. ECHO is going to be there. Dave Burke, newest member of Echelon Front.

Marine Corps. Boom. Fighter pilot. Boom. Top gun. Boom. Top gun instructor. Yeah.

And by the way, with all that, he was on the ground in Ramadi with Asking a Bruiser doing operation after operation after operation as an Anglico team leader. So the guys out there for their control. he's coming on the podcast soon as well. And as just like the first muster, there's not going to be a backstage. There's no green room that we're going to be hiding in. We will be out front.

We will be talking to you, discussing things, taking ownership of the problems that we all have and get them solved. So we will see you there at the muster. Extremeownership.com. And until we do see you there, We will see you on the interwebs on Twitter, on Instagram,

and maybe we're going to see you on that Facebook. We'll be interacting with all of you. Echo is at Echo Charles, and I am at Jocko Willink. And to the military men and women that are out there right now in harm's way, putting your life at risk for our great nation. thank you all for our freedom. And to those that have fallen for the cause of freedom, we will never forget.

For the police fighting crime and the firefighters fighting fires and the rest of the first responders out there, thanks to you all for keeping us safe and to everyone else out there. Thank you for listening and thank you for supporting this podcast. and thanks for being here with us. You, we hear from all the time, from all over the world in every walk of life.

Thank you for joining us as we make our way through the world trying to extract every drop of blood from this life by pushing forward every day with everything that we've got. All of us and getting after it. So until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.