Jocko Podcast - 73: Confronting Abuse of Authority, Overcome Over-reacting, Tips for a New Leader, Alternatives to Firing Someone.

Episode Date: April 27, 2017

0:00:00 - Opening 0:00:44 - How to never over react to situations. 0:08:41 - How to handle being a NEW leader standing in front of your NEW team.  0:13:57 - How long to get the (BJJ) Blue Belt? 0:28:56 - Managing people who out-perform you--Best Approach. 0:34:32 - Effectively lead a team who's members' goal is only to be "THE BOSS." 0:45:59 - Lessons learned from 70+ episodes of JOCKO PODCAST. 1:07:11 - How can Jiu Jitsu reduce fear in life? 1:19:26 - Navigating Jiu Jitsu with nagging injuries or being injury prone. 1:29:10 - Capitalizing on a team member NOT being a team player. 1:35:37 - Confronting abuse of authority. 1:48:10 - Dealing with situations where you can't fire someone due to unions. 1:51:52 - Taking "Ego is the enemy" too far? 2:00:48 - What to do when you're over worked and coming up short.\ 2:04:10 -  Support, Cool Onnit, Amazon, JockoStore stuff, with Jocko White Tea and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), (Jocko's Kids' Book) Way of the Warrior Kid, and The Muster002. 2:30:30 - Final Gratitude          Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 73 with Echo Charles and me Jocker Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. It has been quite a few episodes since we did some Q&A and A and answered some questions from the interwebs. We had a series of guests, hit a couple books, and just kind of slid. A little bit on Q&A. So, Q&A. Yeah.

Let's rock. Let's. Quest number one. Question number one. Yeah. Boom. Question number one, Jocko. Do you have to make a conscious effort not to overreact to situations, or is it natural slash ingrained now? I would say at this point, it's fairly ingrained.

And I don't overreact to a lot of stuff anymore. In fact, sometimes I just don't react to stuff. To be honest with you, when things are going on, I'll just be sort of, okay, yep, nod the head, you know, listen to what's happening, listen to the people freaking out. And I don't, yeah, I don't overreact to a lot of stuff. That's, I think it's pretty ingrained right now. And I would say that in order to get there, you know, in order to try and move in that direction, because that is the best way to be. Again, I'm not saying to be a robot. I'm not saying you should have no emotions and you should never show any and I'm not saying that

But you shouldn't you should have some control over those emotions Especially from a leadership perspective, right? That's what I'm talking about here from a leadership perspective So one of the things that you can do is when you when you when chaos starts to hit You know picture that what does this look like from the outside? What do I look like from the outside when somebody says something to you that's It's traumatic or is going to cause a disturbance or it's going to cause problems immediately think yourself, okay, what am I going to look like from the outside right now? What am I going to look like to them if they're recording this in your head like they're recording this and we're going to go sit down and watch it later when they first came out with in the SEAL teams when we started recording people as they entered rooms and as we did primarily close quarters combat scenarios. So you've got guys in tight quarters and they're making very quick decisions and you. And you. You start seeing what you look like. Yeah, yeah.

And it makes you better. You know, that's one of the reasons why you do it. The same thing with Jiu-Jit-to. You've watched the tape or M-M-A. You watch the tape of what someone's doing in football. They do that in every sport, right? They watch the tape. See what you look like.

See what mistakes you made. So when someone hits you with something that's disturbing or is going to cause problems, picture that you're being recorded. And you're going to have to watch the play-by-play later. Yeah. With your team and look at what how much you lost your temper or how much you got frazzled and what a disaster you were So that's what I would picture or as you start to move in the direction of a I'm not going to get Fraseled by problems. I'm just going to listen. I'm going to assess. I'm going to make decisions and move forward

Yeah Yeah. Yeah pretty easy. Yeah pretty simple Dang yeah that that play when they say play let's go to the videotape. You know, let's play it And went in football, man, in meetings, they, you know, big screen projector, the little laser pointer. Yes, exactly. So, man, when you mess up and everyone's looking, what are you doing here? They pause it.

And it shows you like mid mess up, you know, man, it's like they put you on the stage and just throw tomatoes at you. That's what it feels like. Yeah. That's how you get better, though. Yeah, agreed. Totally agree. And in a way, I told you I used to do this where it had to do with more.

more like getting mad like if I find myself getting mad you know same thing overreaction kind of where I'd really shame myself kind of like man that's embarrassing you got mad kind of thing so it would be on my mind the whole time where anytime I felt myself getting mad it'd be on my mind like oh look at me I'm being one of those guys yeah so it's kind of the same thing but it's in your own head kind of thing yeah and it's it really boils down to something I talk about all the time detachment yeah that's what I'm talking about being able to picture yourself what do I look like right now am I appearing to be a panicked stricken loser yes or am a calm cool collected leader that's gonna step up make a good decision assess the

situation and move forward yeah let's look like that guy the winner the leader what about if you're like what about what about if you're tired like you didn't get a lot of sleep for few days serious right now yeah yeah no factor no okay it doesn't affect you know people you're right People get irritable when they get tired. Yeah. Which I actually find amusing. Yeah. But that's a real thing.

Yeah, it is a real thing. You know what that means? You need to, if you're one of those people that's going to be in that mode, you need to be aware of that. And you need to focus even more on not overreacting and acting like a baby because you're tired. Like a baby. Yeah. Like a baby. Yeah.

What is a baby? Do you start crying? Yes. And that's actually kind of the point there where, you know, I used to be one of the, before I had kids. You know how when the kid is actually. acting up. You know, your friend's kid is acting up. And then you're like, oh, I want a bratty kid.

But the parent of the kid always is like, oh, he's just tired or she's just tired. And you're like, you thought it was a lie. She's just tired. No, your kid is a brat. That's what you kind of think, you know. Your kid's not tired. Echo always judging. No, I think most people without a kid that's how.

And after a while, especially when you have kids, you start to realize, oh, yeah, man, there's a difference in kids behavior yeah and may must be fundamental because this is a one year old we're talking about you know it's not like he learned to start crying when he's tired it's like when you're telling you're just less patient even as an adult you've been tired and you're like waiting for something whatever when you're when you're tired and you're waiting for something and it's not coming like as quick as you expected yeah what you're used to here's the problem that i run in with with waiting or being held up or when i this is how i realized i was a control freak, kind of, is going to the airport.

Because if you're running late in the airport, you can't control TSA. They're going to take, and of course, if, if I'm on time for my flight, waiting in the TSA line for five minutes is not a big deal at all. If I'm late for my flight, five minutes is an eternity and they're pathetic and their losers and they're slow. And it's all on me. It's all on me because I went to the airport late. So I get to the airport early because I don't like to have the feeling of things I can't control So I'm gonna do the best to mitigate it that's one of those situations if you get all tired and then you get all Angry and you start crying like a baby then guess what get more sleep and or and or because sometimes you don't have the choice and you get less sleep

So put yourself in check and Try and get control those emotions instead of acting like a baby. Yeah, I put in in the warrior kid book one of the lines is Mark, he's all bummed out. And the line was he started crying like a baby. And the editors were like, you know, you might not want to say that. You know, it kind of gives a bad thing about crying. Crying's bad and crying's babyish. And I said, no, actually, you're crying like a baby.

And babies cry. And, you know, when you're a 10-year-old kid, you shouldn't be crying like a baby. And it's him saying about himself, you know. So they were a little sensitive about that one, but once I kind of debriefed him on it, we were good. The line remained. Mark, in his own words, broke down and started crying like a baby. Right.

Yeah, because crying like a baby technically is not the same thing as just normal crying for stuff. Yeah, that's true. You're crying like them. Because why they say crying like a baby, really? It's probably because babies cry for literally everything, right? Anything that they're not happy about the baby cry because he doesn't know how to talk.

So if you're crying like a baby You're just crying for every little thing There you go But if you're just crying over You know Hawaii 5O Or you know whatever the movie is you're watching Then that's way different You know what I'm saying

Yeah The line remained That's the good thing That's the key right there Next question Any advice for a second lieutenant One month into IOC And a couple of months

From standing in front of a PLT Platoon Of Marines for the first time You know what? I almost didn't answer this one because I answered it all the time for every different person that's going into a leadership position. But I'm going to answer it one more time just to make it brief. We're going to make it quick. But if you're going into a new leadership position, whether you're going to be in charge of a Marine Corps platoon or an Army platoon or a SEAL platoon or a division at a company or a sports team, whatever you're going to be in charge of.

The principles are the same, right? We're gonna be humble number one We're gonna listen We're not gonna act like we know everything because we don't because we're new There's gonna be a gunny sergeant in that platoon that actually does know a lot of stuff You don't you go in there asking acting like you do you're gonna take suggestions You're gonna you're gonna ask for advice you're gonna heed the advice when it comes your way Now you're gonna work

Harder than everybody else that goes without saying you're gonna outwork everybody buddy they're gonna respect that and then when the time comes to be decisive and you've taken on board the various inputs you're gonna be decisive once you've been decisive that doesn't mean that you're gonna hold on and burn in with that idea that decision that you made you can change your mind sometimes that's the one thing that always freaked me out about politicians when a politician would change their mind and everyone say oh they're a flip flopper they change their mind it you know more information comes to light and your attitude can can evolve

you know your opinion can evolve that's not that's not a horrible thing to me. Now, if you have somebody that's flip-flopping their fundamental principles, that can obviously, and if the reason for them doing that isn't for new information, it's because they want this person to vote for me or that group of people to vote for me, well, then that's obviously a different thing. But for you to analyze your decision and then let it mature and change, that's not that big of a deal. And it's and and and people get paranoid that that your troops won't respect that.

Like I said we were going to come in for the West. So we're just going to. I'm not going to change my mind because I'll look weak. No, no, no. You actually look weak by maintaining a stupid opinion or maintaining course. That's a bad course or bad decision. So so don't do that. Just be humble.

Be decisive when you have to be or when you when you need to be. And then also remember there's been all these other leaders throughout history. thousands and thousands of years that have stepped up and taken charge of stuff and gotten after it. So you're going to make some mistakes. So is everybody. The people that you're working for made mistakes too. That gun re-surgent made mistakes. You know, he wasn't perfect.

So you're going to make mistakes. Not that big of a deal. You make a mistake? What do you do? Own it. Learn from it. Move forward. So that's what you do with the

new leadership position and good luck man the platoon commander platoon commander that's what you want to be and that's what you got go and get it Semperfy and thanks for your service

yeah that's I think that's one my opinion is that the this question and this answer that you just gave that I don't think that gets old because that's a hard one and no one feels comfortable

actually let me rephrase that the people that feel comfortable I'm ready to get in there take charge they're generally the least ready and are going to have the worst performance because they're their their their egos big and they believe that they're gonna crush it This guy this second lieutenant he is humble. He's aware he's you know hey man what can I do how can I be ready for this that's that's that's the perfect place to be at Yeah like a healthy amount of doubt. Yeah Leif Leif told that story a couple times where when he was the executive officer to seal team or the ops officer to seal team If he called out and I was running training So his seal team was going through training and he would call, you know, the platoon commander, the troop commander.

And he'd say, hey, you know, how's everything going out there? And if he's, if they answered, we're crushing it. Right, right. Leif would say, uh-oh, we got issues. Because factually, he knew, he knew, he knew, he knew, he knew I was running training. There wasn't anyone's going to crush the training and I was running. And so if their answer wasn't, you know, hey, the training is really hard and we're doing our best. We're learning a lot.

Yeah. Those guys, he'd say, okay, they're good to go. go see him, you know, in a week or so. If they said they were crushing it, he'd say, yeah, I'm going to come out and see you guys tomorrow. And then when they get out there, he'd say, what's going on? I'd say, yeah, it's not good. So, yeah, that attitude of we're crushing it is generally an indicator of you're probably not doing the best job. Yeah.

So stay humble. It's the indicator of how they're going to move forward to, you know, like their attitude. We're crushing it. I'm doing great. Yeah, no, that's, yeah. You're not. You're not doing great. None of us are at a minimum we can do better right so the minute you say I'm doing great Yeah going backwards next question How long did it take you to get promoted to a blue belt and how often were you training during that time

So real simple question it took me I think about nine or ten months to get my blue belt She and when I was at that time I I was yeah at SEAL team one I was in the training department and I had a lot of opportunity to train at that time Clinton years not a lot of money to to train to to train that in the SEAL teams so less trips shorter trips less travel so we were staying around a little bit more no war going on on top of all that so We were home a little bit more and so I trained all the time. I would go to lunch at lunch I would zip over To Fabio Santos. Oh, okay and train the lunchtime class and then I'd zip back and do work and then we get done and go back

And I would do the beginner class and then I would do the advanced class and then I would roll with Dean and Higgs and James Nielsen And Craig and the rest of the guys that were there at Fabio's at the time and we and Fabio used to kick Dean and I off the mat and Like nine o'clock at night. Yeah, take it too long. Yeah, and he'd say, why don't you guys get a life? What are you doing? And we'd say, we're just training that you did too. You say we got a life. It's right here. I'm living. This is it. And so it was mostly at Fabio's like, you know how you said you'd like train with your, you know, your guys who weren't trained or whatever. Was there that going on? Yeah, yeah. Anybody that wanted to roll with me, I had the same policy that I have right now.

You want to roll? Cool. Yeah. Let's roll. I have my gear. It's in my bag right now. If you want to train, we'll train. Oh, it's, you know, Thursday afternoon and it's two o'clock and we don't have any work to do and you want to turn.

Cool. We'll train. So, yeah, I was doing that all the time. And the thing is once I got blue belt Because I think I got blue belt pretty pretty quickly And but I was at blue belt for a long timey because Because I Right as I was probably getting close to getting my purple belt

I left I left California and I went to Virginia Beach once I got to Virginia Beach Steps into a new dojo with Gustavo Machado And you know started training with Gustavo and I'm just a blue belt right and so So he's got to know, learn me, figure out what my personality's like, see what my potential is as a person. And I trained really hard there. But I was also gone a lot traveling. And that's when I was traveling a lot on the road. And I would train with guys on the road.

And it went on deployment, trained with guys on deployment. And then it would come back into town. And so I didn't get consistent enough with him, eyes with him, where he said, hey, this guy's ready for his purple belchi. So by the time, I might have been close to him thinking, okay, you know what? And then you start looking to him for a purple belt went back to San Diego got back to San Diego and now I Check back into Fabios. Well, it's been two years bro. You need to you know you need to prove yourself again. So it was almost like I was at the bottom of the of the pecking order in terms of time and rain even though I'd been a blue belt for a long time. So I ended up being a blue belt for a long time. I want to say it was a blue belt for maybe like five. years yeah that's and I was a good blue belt don't get me wrong sure of course you

and but you know it was a long time you you when you when you jump around from school to school and the instructor doesn't know you well enough and doesn't see you on a regular basis and can't assess your improvement because that's the thing with jiu jiu jitzu in my opinion you're you don't get your belt there's not a level playing field for every person so in other words it's not hey these the skills required for blue belt and now you get your blue belt and then you've learned these other four you know these other 127 other moves and now you get your purple belt now there's three hundred and ten moves to get your it's not like that at all yeah and in fact it's also not

hey how do you as a blue belt do against this other group of blue belts what it is and I know this sounds a little bit cliche but it's it's really how good are you against you right because if somebody you know you let's say you get somebody that starts jiu jutsu when they're older you know maybe they're 55 years old they're gonna go and they train until they're 62 or they're training and training and training their skill level they're getting injured they're having issues they got to work they got to they get about to do a bunch other things and they can't they're a hobbyist right they're not focused and they can only train so much they learn the moves they get better 10 years go by there's a chance that they're going to be a black belt

Based on the fact that, hey, as a 55-year-old person that came in here and started training and the moves that you've learned and how you've applied them, according to your athletic ability and your physical capability at the time, hey, it's been 10 years, which is a pretty rough number for, like, you know, for getting your black belt. So that's acceptable. But you might get a kid that's a really good athlete that in two years can destroy that guy. Yeah. And he's not getting his black belt. Because you're saying what is your potential how good can you be as a black belt that's the question So really it's almost a compliment The longer it takes you to get your belts that means in my opinion that means the better you're gonna that means the better that

That means the better that your instructor thinks you're gonna be Yeah, that's my that's my thought and not everyone does it like that you know some people think oh if if this purple belt can beat that purple belt You know this purple belt's better yeah and if this purple belt can beat the brown belt then I need to give him his brown belt Mm. Not too many things people think people think that way. You know who thinks that way? The purple belt. I can beat the brown belt. I should be a brown belt. No, no wrong. Yeah. So. So true. And there's so many, there's so many of those little things, like the reason an instructor might be influenced to give someone. I mean, typically, they're not going to give someone a belt based solely on the fact that he taps out that, you know, brown belt. So, but it is influenced by that. It is. There's all these weird things. There's stuff like guys. Sometimes I'm. watching like two blue belts and they'll see that I'm watching and it turns into a death match

because none of them wants to tap actually you know what I just saw a video of a guy with a Camara I think you put it on yeah I saw that live what got injured is elbow you think it because it looked like his elbow yeah maybe like crack yeah yeah didn't tap to the Camura yeah the Camer is a beast man yeah Camer is a beast you know you can not tap to a footlock you can not tap to a heel hook yeah he'll hook can go really sideways yeah But you don't have to, Kimura. You're probably going to have some issues, man. Yeah, it's so terrible to watch.

Like, I've seen guys, like, get there. You know, their knee and stuff in a heel hook. And it's like, oh, dang that. Yeah, but, man, the Kimura, when you see the guy's arm just bent that way. Yeah, man. And I didn't post that video. Someone else posted it. I would never post videos like that.

In fact, I don't like to watch that. I saw it live. Is that what I did to your shoulder according to the success magazine? Almost. Almost separated your shoulder. Separated it did not people and not do that I know it sounded nice and dramatic Yeah, but it didn't happen yeah I don't think you've ever almost said no no yeah but as far as As far as people getting instructions being influenced on why to give guys belts or a higher belt

Like some instructors for example they'll be influenced now by to give a guy higher belt because I want to have more black belts under me You know we have a team of black belts and And typically that'll have a lot to do with sales, you know, like where I can be like, hey, I have, you know, a team of, you know, and I've heard the sales pitch, you know, where it's like, hey, we have seven black belts on the mat, three world champions. You know, that's good. That's good. So people might be influenced by that. And then they'll be like, okay, maybe I'll give these two guys their belt. So now we have four black belts or whatever.

There's that. And then there, if that's the reason, you know, I mean, it is good to have 10 black belts in your association. Yeah, yeah. That is good. Yeah, for sure. And but then there's the opposite too Or guys will be like if they're And this typically happens if they're competing

So if a coach is like A I got these five brown belts They're obviously on the level of black belt Knowledge performance all this stuff But when they go in the tournament in the brown belt level They're killing we got gold medals Gold team medals every time So then there's that

Sandbagging Sandbagging exactly right So there's yeah there's all those things In regards to the belt I said this before I'm gonna say it again the belt really doesn't have to do with how good you think you are or how good even you know you are if you're like hey I'm tapping you know I'm a white belt for example I'm white belt and I'm hanging with the purple belts I'm tapping blue belts I'm giving them a hard time

so I should be a blue belt it doesn't matter doesn't matter at all and I you know it sounds like an exaggeration doesn't matter at all it's a little bit of a thing no it doesn't your skill is evaluated by your instructor. That's the reason why you can be at a certain level. Leave. Come back and still not because your instructor. You can be going dominating everywhere. The instructor has to evaluate you. Yeah, that's exactly what happened with me.

And it wasn't a negative thing. It was like, hey, you've been gone for two years. We've got to see where you're at, Jocko. Yeah. And it's not a one day thing either. You can roll back in here and get your purple belt just because you've been training for two straight years. Yeah.

It doesn't matter. Yeah. And you know what's interesting, too, is this, obviously, this applies to, people in the business world, people trying to get promoted. And the more you're thinking, hey, I'm better at this job than this guy. There's something else going on. There's something you look at. And the more frustrated you get about not getting that promotion, not getting taken care of, not getting noticed.

Just do your job. Work hard. You know, don't worry about the promotion and the promotion's going to come. Yeah. In most cases. Yeah. So that's my advice. I wouldn't even frame it where I would say in all cases

There are exceptions like everything else But in all cases that that is the situation And think about this too when you when you when you in regards to like your belt Right jiu jitsu belt if I'm a white belt jocco you're my instructor And I'm like hey I'm winning all these tournaments All of them gold not a point score all by submission I'm typing up blue belts and purple belts sometimes hey Jock give me my blue belt I can't do that

You like it's not up to me even if I beg you I go on the internet I post this petition it's not up to me see this is this is the thing You know when you hear in martial arts like Old traditional martial arts like you will learn humility Yeah, and you will learn discipline and they would teach it you know by Teaching it by talking about it in did you do you do it's real yeah look you will be humble yeah and when you flare up and say where's my belt? That's you not being humble.

That's you not, you know, just saying, hey, I need to work harder. I need to keep getting after it. Yeah. And so you're learning that lesson right there. That's part of the lesson. That's the way it should be. You know, and again, I, I've mentioned this before on the podcast. Just because someone is a jiu-jitsu person, just because they're a black belt doesn't

mean they have the same, it doesn't mean they have like the best morals and values. It doesn't mean that at all. There could be people selling belts. There's people that sell belts. Oh, you got to take 10 privates with me at $1,000 each. And then, then you'll. That's how you get the black belt. Okay, cool.

No, not cool. So there's a bunch of things like that, too. You know, oh, I want you to go open a pilot school for me somewhere. So I'm going to give you your black belt, even though you're not that good. So that way you can give me my, you know, 12% of your annual earnings. You know, things like that happen. And there's, you know, even worse things that happen. But the bottom line is, in a pure jiu-sit-sense, you should be working hard in getting promoted.

as it comes from your instructor. Yeah. So essentially the promote- Is this sort of like an indirect way of you talking to me about your belt? No, not at all. Actually, if it does apply to me, I'd say... Doesn't matter.

You don't even care. Well, less than anyone cares or doesn't care. Of course, I think everyone cares in one way or another. But I'd say the approach, it more has to do with the approach. Like, just like how you said, focus on getting better. Focus on the learning.

That's it. The belt is just a symptom of your learning. It's an event. Mentuality, essentially. Same thing. Or back to the fact that it doesn't have anything to do with the person,

only the instructor. On the flip side, what I said about, you know, if I think I'm, I think I'm a blue belt and I'm not getting my blue belt. What's up?

It's not up to me. It's up to the instructor. No matter what. Same thing is if you, you're like, hey, promotion time. Hey, Echo, here's your blue belt.

And I'm like, I'm not ready for this blue belt. I suck. I can't even do this. I can't give the belt back. I can't like take it off and then put it, you know,

I mean, I'm sure there's some kind of excitement. There was that thing that happened long time ago with, with Ensign. That wasn't that long ago. It was like a year ago. Yeah, that's long time ago. Okay. But nonetheless, you know, I can't give it back to you. When you get promoted, you're ready for it.

So put your belt on and start getting after. Right. It has nothing to do with your opinion. That's the point there. So yeah, it's your instructor. And then keep training. Yeah. Because sometimes people get their belts and they stop training.

Yeah, and that's an interview. Here's the thing. I'll admit there was a point in my life where I was like, Concerned about that. I'm like oh, I'm you know better than this guy. I'm not gonna say when which belt It was not recently mind you, but that's that three weeks ago I guess I should sit But man, I remember and when I think about that time man, I wasn't learning that much at all I was just focusing on like oh, how good I do so like you know your game kind of is closed off

You don't learn much. You're concerned about you know all this stuff and if you're happy who You're not taking any risks not learning. Yes, exactly right and gets you and it just messes up your whole Jiu Jitsu experience because you had that You have that added element of stress. It's not good. Don't do that. Don't even ask about belts, I think. That's a good, I think a good tip. That isn't, that is a great policy.

Yeah. That's the best policy for belts. Don't ask them train hard and you'll get what's coming to you eventually. But sometimes people will ask you, hey, when are you going to get your blue belt? Or, you know, you know, people will ask you that. Whenever I'm ready. I don't know. Yeah, whenever I'm my instructor.

A lot of times people ask me when I'm going to get the red and black belt sheet. I'm just kidding. No one asks me that. The coral belt. Interesting. Yeah. Good. Next question.

What's the best approach to managing people that outperform you? I think this is a simple question as well. What you do in this situation is you give them all the support you can and let them run. I'm happy. If someone's outperform me, that's great. You know what else I'll do? Try and learn from them and see what they're doing. Try and spread the word.

If I'm in a leadership position and someone's doing outperforming everyone, great. How can we take that? How can we teach it to everyone else? How can I give them support so they can run even faster? This is no factor to me. I love it. You should be surrounding. The more people you can bring on your team that outperform you, the better you're going to do.

Check. Easy money. Next question. Next question. Yeah, a lot of times that's hard, though. You know, and I know what you're going to say. You touch your ego. Oh, am I going to say it in that voice?

Is it not true? We know it's your ego. It's 100% ego when you can't support somebody that's doing better than you. It's 100% ego. Why else would you not support them? They're helping the team win. I know. They're helping everyone do better.

Yeah. Why would you not support them? Because your ego, because you're like, ooh, that hurts. Yeah. I want to be the guy.

And you know what you look like then? You look like a jealous. Baby. Little baby. Word of the day. Baby. You look a little jealous little baby. Because you're trying to hold them back and everyone can see it and everyone can tell.

Yeah. Just don't be that person. Yeah, that's a good point right there. Everyone can tell. Everyone can tell. Everyone can tell. What's going on.

It's one of those dichotomies. is that people can be so ignorant to things, and yet so perceptive to things. Yeah. So, and the things like that, they're so perceptive too. Yeah. Echo doesn't like to see Jocko outshine him. Yeah.

That's why he's trying to hold him back. Oh, he's not sending him on that trip. Yeah. We can win that deal. Oh, he's going to go instead. Yeah. Hey, I won the deal, guys. Yeah, I'm great.

No, wrong. And even down to the smallest little things, like, you know, Hey, I don't know. We'll say John is the guy's you're subordinate, right? You're jealous of him because he's dope. And when someone gives John a compliment about how good he did, just the little looking on your face. So obvious, you don't know.

And you know how you say that some people are so like ignorant of some things and so perceptive. They're ignorant about the stuff when it applies to them. Yes. Somebody else. It's like, oh, yeah, you know, I'll point those out all day. Good point. Like when people, I got this from Sam Harris.

He had this example where name dropping, when you do some name dropping, not everyone but most people, it's easier to recognize it when other people name drop than when they do themselves, you know? So funny. So true. And there's, if I name drop,

I immediately feel like a flush of just disgust. Oh my God, I just did that. That's so bad. Yeah, yeah, it's true. So bad. But it's hard to pen it to you. You know, speaking of that, I was just texting back and forth with Tim Ferriss and Joe Rogan the other day.

Name job. I'm just kidding. I wasn't. That's how you know, that's an excessive name drop when you say their first and their last name. That's it, you know. Well, I don't know. What's worse? Like, hey, you know, I was just texting.

I just got a text from Tim. He was letting me know about. Yeah, you're right. Well, Tim who? Oh, Tim Ferriss, my boy. Joe Hogan, my boy. Yeah, we were kicking in old school. Yeah, that's like, like pseudo advanced name dropping where, where you say the first name,

that but like like amateur name dropping is first and last name okay so I was actually black belt name dropping yeah just first name name base yeah actually more like one straight white belt you know it's just a little bit more advanced still name dropping is what's the high is there a way to appropriately name drop somehow how do you do that I'm sure there is not say their name I was talking to someone the other day so this is a similar situation I was talking to you know met some people the other day and and and the girl says you all you always you know, oh yeah, we were talking about

the East Coast and she said, oh yeah, I went to college in Cambridge and it was, you know, it's a good place. And I was thinking to myself, I didn't, you know, oh, where'd you go to school? No. We'll leave it at that. But that was sort of a high level name drop. I lived in Cambridge. That's where I went to college.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Only one fucking college to talk about going out there, right? Right? So I'm just, you know, oh, was that a high level? Was it? Or was that just an honest conversation? Yeah. Might have been just, might have been, just her not wanting to sound like, you know, hey, you know. Right.

She didn't want to, she didn't essentially want to name drop for the reason that people normally name drop. But here's, I think there is a way that, like, effectively and like legitimately, if, for lack of a better term, name drop. And that's like if you, if you, because name dropping typically, it's like, you know, it's almost like a weak attempt at breezing over, you know, I'm texting with Joe Rogan, you know, or they'll like say their little credentials, you know. But I think if you say, you know, I was texting with my friend and it was actually Joe Rogan, you know, and you make it like a point to emphasize like that this wasn't just anyone.

It was Joe Rogan. So you're actually excited about it. Yes, you know, exactly. So that I think that's an effective way because it kind of can maintain your humility there. But you know, people are like, you know, I'm just texting with my boy, Joe Rogan, whatever kind of thing. more like I'm just no big deal and BD. Yo, NVD, man.

Anyway, cool. I digress. Yeah. All right. Next question. What would be a good approach to effectively, what would be a good approach to effectively leading a team where instead of taking ownership of their responsibilities and working towards team goals,

each team member is just trying to be the boss? Okay. So a couple things here. You want to let them be the boss of their tasks, right? That's what you're trying to do. So that makes sense. And one of the ways, if they want to be the boss of everything, maybe you give them a little bit more as much decision-making process you can

as to what task or what projects they're in charge of. So that makes them feel a little bit like they're empowered. And I shouldn't say makes them feel like they're empowered. You actually are empowered. You know what I mean? So there's a pretty significant distinction. Because once again, people will recognize if you're just letting them do it

to make them feel good about it, they're gonna know that. Yeah, okay, Jocko, thanks for the decision. You gave me a choice of one thing. Thank you. The color of pens. Yeah. So, you know, maybe let them

really express their authority and leadership on owning what it is that they're owning. But the question says they're not taking ownership of their responsibilities. So let's make sure first that we're not,

that we're giving them full reign and full ownership. ownership of their responsibilities and we're not micromanaging in there now if that if we're beyond that and we got people that just want to be in charge of the whole thing well cool that's that's actually awesome you want to be in charge of everything if echo isn't our team and he wants to be in charge of everything hey guys check it out right now this next you know project that we're working echo's going to run it I'm going to sit back and by the way next project bill you're running and next project Fred

You're running now we're all gonna get to actually get in the hot seat and you don't tell you what you're gonna see Number one you're gonna see some people like go They wanted to sit in the back and chirp, but they don't actually want to be responsible for anything So that puts them to rest right away You're also what's gonna happen with everybody is they're all gonna see that this thing that looks so easy from the back of the room Is is a lot harder than they think that's what it's like running a seal mission the guy in the back that's never been in charge before is it go we should just do it like this Yeah and that guy you say okay Here, you run this.

And then, you know, in six hours, they come up and say, hey, uh, can you give me a hand with how you're supposed to contact and de-conflict with these other units? Okay, it's a little jiggery than you thought, maybe, isn't it? But you actually put people in charge of things. If they want to be in charge of things, put them in charge of things. It's great. And, you know, don't let them fall in her face. Don't let them get anyone killed.

Don't let them, you know, get anyone injured or lose any strategic ground. We're not going to do that. But we're going to let them have you. opportunity to step up and lead if they do a good job sweet yeah sweet now you've got them you can rely on them you can actually put them in charge of projects now you don't have to micromanage me you don't have to watch over them this is this is a this is a no-lose situation this happened actually one of my one of my uh platoon was going through training and one of the platoon commanders came up to me we were just putting the

the platoon through training and he comes up and he's oh my platoon chief wants to run everything and is it good let him run everything let him run everything that's perfect then you can focus on, you know, other things. Don't worry about it. But ego, right? We want to be running everything. I'm the guy in charge.

Yeah. No. Let him run it. And it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's, the reason, the thing that holds people back from letting other people run things is insecurity. If I think Echo's going to do a better job than me, or I think you're going to do a really good job and you're going to shine and I don't feel like I do a good job, I'm going to hold you back as the best of my ability.

And we'd be like, no, Echo, uh, uh, You go ahead and you go ahead and just stay in your lane there, buddy. I got this over here. No, but if I if I if I if I know if I'm secure in my leadership Man echo. Oh, you want to run this dude? Awesome. Here you go. Here's the plan once you know Here's the here here's the here's the here's the portfolio. Why don't you put the plan together? I'm gonna be over here looking down the road on our next project and looking for our next thing down the road going out and getting another client to bring into the game. We're gonna make this happen no factor. Yeah, seems like counterintuitive is Yeah, it is. You want it, you want me to say, here's how you keep the people in their lanes. Yes, exactly. Yeah, let me tell you what you do.

Let them out of their lanes. Let them into your lane. Let them run some stuff. Yep. Build a new leader. It's a beautiful thing. When you, you know, when you're insecure, you want, you don't want them to shout outshine you, you know, you can tell that where, I think it's natural though, you know, when people,

maybe a little insecure, you know, or if you're not as, you know, or if you're not as a good as maybe you hope or what I think it's natural to be a little bit insecure of course here's how here's how in my experience anyway where I could tell where I'm being insecure where if someone's performing a certain thing and you're kind of like you can feel it consciously you kind of hope that they don't do that good but man that I know that's bad it's bad but that's how you can tell that's how you can tell if you have that feeling oh you should you should definitely you if you have that feeling check yourself yeah you know what Here I am hoping that my own team member doesn't do a good job.

Yeah, that's bad situation. Real bad. You want to hope everyone's doing great. Yeah. And, you know, this happened on deployment. And I talk about it in the book, Extreme Ownership, was, you know, the Delta Platoon commander, he was worried that this element that had come into work in his AO. He was worried that they were going to be better than him and take his job. And he told me that.

And I said, hey, bro, if they take your job, good. I'll find a new job for you. There's so much work. We got work to do. Don't worry about it. Help them. Help them take your job. And I'll find you a new job.

It turns out that their egos were too big and they couldn't let that happen. But that's the same situation. You got somebody that thinks going to take your job and do better than you. Help them and then find new work. Because we're trying to help the team, right? There's a mission. There's an overall mission. And if Echo can do something better than me, hey, here's the turnover.

Here's the lessons I learned. You're better at this than I am. You keep running with it. I'm going to go find something that I'm good at or an area that I can help. That's just supporting the whole team. That's a win. And you know what? Sitting in the podcast studio, it's so easy to talk about that.

But it's so hard for people to do that. It really is. Really is. Yeah. It's one of those things where you're dealing with your actual feelings in the situation. We're not dealing with our actual feelings in the situation right now. But which, but it doesn't that mean that it's, that's good. You know you you're giving a fresh like view you're yeah, you know you are detached. I am

detached right now accurate advice and the more detached and you pointed out some red flags right if I'm hoping that these guys go on the mission and fail that's a red flag that you're being selfish and insecure about your job and what you're doing and if someone can do a job better than you let them do it. Yeah. That's going to help the whole team. Yeah. So it's like you're us in the podcast room we're like you know if you get a guy in the maze the maze of emotions and we're outside of the maze on top we can see the whole maze we're not in the maze of emotions we're on top we can look at the whole scenario the whole maze so we can tell that guy what to do effectively yes you know echo you just described detachment there you go that's what detachment is like that that's

what that's what that's what that's what it's like for me yeah i can see the maze and i remember learning how to step back and step above and look at the maze I remember it. Yeah. Remember learning that and going, oh, that's all you got to do. Yeah. And then I remember taking it from the training ground, the battlefield, and then realizing that that's what you need to do in the everyday interactions with people.

And especially once I got in the business world, then I, the thing that was cool about when we started Eschleon Front, now I would be witnessing, like, I'd go into a meeting. And I would be detached. I would be up above the maze of emotions and turmoil. And so now I would get to see it. And then I would start bringing the leadership and saying look at what this looks like to me Yeah, and they go go I don't like that I don't like that going to the video too. Yeah going to the video and and so then that's how you learn we go to the video look what it looks like from up above the maze and now you see you see what you were doing here in your meeting you had everybody so Intimidated that no one said anything you just gave a 15 minute meeting no one responded in any way to anything you said you think everyone in that room agreed with everything you said not a

chance. They didn't say a word. Why is that? You intimidated them. You bullied them. And now you're not getting any feedback and they're going to execute the plan that they don't believe in. And that's probably less effective than the one that they have coming from the field. Yeah. Congratulations. Congratulations. No, not congratulations. Let's get this fixed. The opposite of congratulations. Like, you know, so I was in the in traffic and someone to think about. I was in traffic and you know how you have the two lanes right? So I'm going to turn left on the light. Yeah. Then the lane next to me, they're going straight. So whoever the person in front of the person that was next to me, both going straight, they were taking too long.

So the lady next to me, she's honking the horn all crazy, like, going like this all crazy. So of course I look over at her and she's going crazy. She looks over at me. She's like, like, do you believe this kind of thing? All going nuts. Meanwhile, I'm looking at myself. You know, other people around me, they're just like, well, this lady's going nuts, you know? So that's an example of being on the outside looking in her she thought it was justifiable honking the horn looking nuts

But meanwhile we're on the outside looking at her like bro, you know how you look and you know what that situation is? You Didn't have anywhere to be She did well I was that red like she was you know you know what I'm saying though She's a person that hadn't left for late work late and she was gonna be in trouble and blah blah blah And that that 30 that that that 10 That eight seconds was probably like three was an eternity for her. Yeah, she's just going nuts just like I was talking about in the airport if I'm running late for the flight TSA takes five minutes It could be no factor or it could drive me completely insane Yep and that's that was her and you know what these days when I screw something up

I don't get frustrated like that you know that's what we're talking about the first question I'm like oh my god I look at myself and God I can't believe I left late yeah do this I'm I'm an idiot Yeah I won't let that happen again I said that in 1996 and I haven't let it happen. Boom. Dang, yeah. See what I mean?

I was outside the maze of emotion. Here's the thing I know. I know how she's feeling. All these guys not going. Go. Green light, go. It's time to go. Universal.

Yeah. So I understand the feeling, but look how you look from the outside, you know? Did she check herself at all? No. When she saw you? No.

She looked at to me for some emotional support. Yeah. As if you believe this guy, you know, get crazy with me kind of thing. thing. That was the look. Yeah, man. So I dig it. I think that's another

understand the difference between feeling and behavior as well. You know? Like I feel I know that's a frustrating thing. It can be. But don't behave like that. Calm down. Person. Next question.

What have you learned about yourself or learned in general over the course of the last 70 plus podcast? So the biggest thing that I learned have learned in the past 70 podcasts is that I have a lot more to learn That's what I learned and the amount of information out there that will help us get better and smarter and more effective as humans the amount of information is is is pretty boundless and also You also see the repetitive themes that we see over and over again that constantly come

up and reinforce themselves now with that I think that seeing these repetitive themes but each with its own little angle give have given me a better I don't want to say a better understanding but I guess I don't know what other word do use a more granular understanding of of human nature and of leadership and of war and of life because you get to look not you know Nothing teaches better than experience, but you can't experience a thousand years of life in reality, but through reading and understanding and seeing what other people have gone through, you do get some level of experience. And I know you just went to, you just did the FTX with, with echelon front.

You went to shoot some video with Laif and JP. And for those of you that don't know, echelon front, we do leadership and management. management consulting and sometimes we do field training exercises where we take people out and we teach them how to shoot and we teach them some fundamental tactics of fire maneuver and then we give them missions to accomplish and so you know you I know you just went out to do your first one and when you got back you know you said I kind of felt a little bit of what it's like to be in a firefight and then you kind of backed off you like well no I didn't I didn't you know I'm not trying to say that and I said no actually you did feel a little bit of what it is like to be in a firefight because you saw people

maneuvering and you were getting hit with with plastic rounds that hurt and you knew you need to get down and you saw the people getting frustrated and you saw people getting frustrated That's that is is it exactly like combat? No and there's also a You know the step up to real combat is huge because now you're gonna die if you screw up But there is a glimpse and there is a there is a certain level of understanding that you absolutely gain from those scenarios that you're put into And it's the same thing when you read a book and you read it the right way and you gather the information from it You you don't have the experience itself Yeah, but there's no doubt you can learn from it So I think for me that's

That's the biggest thing is really reading with a lot of intent to pull lessons out Seeing the multiple lessons seeing the different things from different angles and I've talked about this before You know when you learn an arm lock from seven different instructors they each teach you something a little bit different and something that works and some detail that you didn't see and then on top of that when you learn an arm lock from the bottom and from the top and from the guard and from the close guard and from the open guard and from this cross side and from the mountain you every one of those different angles that you learn it from you get better you get each one of those angles makes you better at the other angles too so I think that's the biggest thing for me is just learning how

much I didn't know and then taking what I can bring on board and assimilate a It into my view and understanding like I said my view and understanding of the world of human nature of war And of life Yeah, it's been it's been fun for me and educational I agree I think I mean obviously approached this thing from a different position But you know the no complaining thing or people would be like no complaining I think that really got really Reenforced in me. It's one of those things where what is it? Who said it? Yoda

Where he says either do or do not. There is no try. So a little bit different to see either you do it. Yeah, you know You know you said that in part oh from the Star Wars series Empire strikes back. Yeah. Okay. Do or do not There is no try got it He said a lot of other cool shit but nonetheless When you know when you're tasked with something or your I don't know Wife asked you to do something or whatever You either do it or you don't do it don't do it don't do it in Complaintly about it the whole time you know where that and that's a common thing where it's like

all right I'll do it and then they'll do it then they'll complain about while they're doing it or after they do it or before they do or before during and after that you know so it's one of those things where and don't even complain in your this I'm just saying this is what I've kind of learned overall and it's it's weird because this wasn't necessarily a specific lesson but it's just it kind of just gets incorporated into your brain where you just kind of don't even complain in your own head you know you know when you when you yeah I don't know I don't know.

You're like, I can't believe I'm sweeping the floor. What about all this stuff that I do and all this stuff? Don't even do that. You know, okay, I'm tasked with just like how you, it was, you regard it. You compared it to doing paperwork. You're like, yeah, yeah, good. You don't want to do paperwork. No one in the world wants to do paperwork.

Yeah, but you do the paperwork and you do that, you crush it as you say. You do that paperwork the best you can. I'm going to crush this paperwork. Yeah, exactly. So, man, if I got a sweet, floor I got to you know wash dishes I got to whatever watch I'm gonna do this the best I can why in fact take pride in that you know take pride not necessarily even in washing of the dishes I say yeah take pride in that but not necessarily just that take pride in the fact that

you're the guy who can wash the dishes that good you know depend on me hell yeah I can do that give me more stuff I'll do it more let me not say that last part because you have other things to do sometimes but I'm saying anything you're tasked with do it the best you can for I mean that even sounds kind of cliche like oh I've heard that just do everything the best you can but to really have that happen kind of in your mind where you regard all your tasks whether you like them or not that way where you can do them the best you can it it's that's that's a life improving situation yeah yeah and going back to what I was I just thought this while you were talking general mattis he he said the other day there's an article about him because he's extremely well read and he has a

personal library of 7,000 books. Very smart, very well educated, very well read. But what he said is very similar to what I said. He said, you know, I wouldn't get, I'm not going to get surprised because what I'm going to face on the battlefield, someone else has faced before. And he made a couple comparisons. I can't think of them off the top of my head. But, you know, when I saw this, you know, he said, when I saw this for the first time, I remembered this historical situation. When I saw that for the first time, I remembered this historical situation. So I know, I know, Never was surprised by what I was seeing because I had seen it before maybe only in a book But at least you have a heads up and that's what you're looking for and what's cool is

If you extrapolate the war which is what we're doing on this podcast taking the war piece of it And extrapolating the human nature piece of it and that's gonna give you a broad look at the way people act the way humans act and interact and that's what I think has been really good for me to just really the other thing is when you you know when you teach a jih Tzu move and you get better at it just by teaching it yeah understand it more well for me by writing the notes and putting them in the podcast and then thinking about which direction I'm gonna go and what I'm gonna talk about I've learned it better you know I've become things that used to things that I may have

known instinctively before and done for 10 years just like when we wrote extreme ownership there was things in there that I said You know as I was writing what happened. I'm like oh yeah I did it here. I used to do it there This is where I learned it but I never really thought about it Until and even going beat before that when I took over the training for the West Coast SEAL teams I would with the first time I wrote down the laws of combat The four fundamental laws of combat Yeah I had known those I had I had acted that I had performed them for years

I had never written them down until I took over training and saw a platoon and said these guys aren't doing these things that would make them successful. Boom, I wrote them down. That was it. And once I wrote them down and started to talk about them and show guys, they made even more sense. And I saw them even easier when people would make a mistake. So I think that's what's been good for me is it's been a real great mental exercise.

Yeah. So thanks everyone for listening and making me do this podcast once a week, whether I like it or not. Yeah. And actually, yeah, and that's another thing. Where you know we almost went to one podcast every two weeks and and so I was just talking to a buddy mine that's in a company that I was talking about he was one of the few guys when we I kind of was thinking about this idea of of you know going to one podcast every two weeks And we were driving same as Mike and great guy great leader and we're driving and I and I said hey, you know, I'm just we're driving to go do Some work was working with his company and I said you know I'm thinking about you know maybe doing the podcast once every two weeks instead of once a week

And he was driving and I was just the passenger and and all of a sudden you know he just kind of He said hey I you know I I just I I don't I don't think that's a good idea and I was oh my God, you know and he was really he said look You know you can't do that you know really we're listening to the podcast We expect it to come out on Wednesday it's got to come on Wednesday and then he was like okay and he compromise the least is look if you're gonna do it Then you need to you know you need to give us a more like a six month warning so people can start to get used to and That was one of the things that swayed me to say you know what I need to start keep hold the line on the podcast

That was the other thing what it's hard Okay Yeah Hey jocco mister sitting around saying hey if it's hard do it anyways and here I was it was kind of hard so it's gonna start to get Yeah no hold the line jocco I'm talking to you jocco Practice what you preach you know what I mean Yeah. It's hard.

You got to read a book and you got to underline take something. Oh, so what? Do it anyways. There it is. Bring it. All right.

It's true. You can thank Mike for the podcast continually coming out on once a week. Yeah, every week. Thanks, Mike. But it, um,

one of the other things, kind of like what you're saying a second ago is, um, you kind of either do it and get it done. Like, this is what, personally in my experience,

I'm from experience where, you know, like, you'll ask about about something, like, hey, what's the status on this or that? So it's either done or it's not done, like, where you can be, oh, you know, I would have done that, but, you know, I did all this stuff. All that stuff after you said, I would have done that, but, like, that doesn't matter at all. Either you did it or you didn't do it. Either you were like, you know, kind of like how Leif says, you either effective or you ineffective kind of thing. And the more, and I think it has a lot to do with just hanging around you more where I'd tell you about something. And you'd be like, okay, is this done or whatever? Is this about to be done or where are we on this?

And then I'll say, oh, yeah, it's done. Then it's like, okay, you have this kind of look of okay, like solid, like thumbs up kind of thing. But if I say, no, not yet because of this, right when I go into because you have this kind of weird haze that goes over you, like you don't care. You're nice. You're nice, well, and you're not like, what do you mean? You're not like that at all. But I can see the little haze go over you like you don't care at all about these excuses that I'm about to say or these justifications that I'm about to make. quite well yeah so and that was early on now I just know it's automatic it's like either the answer is

yes or no and if it's no and it should have been done then next time I see it should be done and that applies to everything and I make the analogy where nothing out of the story where my brother would be like hey buy me some wine I'm like wine you ever been into wine section bro it's huge hey give me this wine it's called this you know it's the cabernet I don't know whatever you call that that should be like the beef jerky section there's that's how big the beef turkey section yeah bro yeah should be but no as of now it's wine and if you go in there and he wants some specific wine and it's easy to go in there and be like you know what this wine section is too vast I'm either gonna grab any wine I see and that's it or I'm not

gonna get it don't task me with this big tag I'm just going in here to get some letters this struggle is real and you know you got me treasure hunting in the wine section and so I'm not gonna do that but I had it in my mind that I'm like no I'm You want some wine? You want this one? All right. Well, I'm going to get it. So, because when I come home...

You're not playing around. Yeah. When I come home, either I got the wine or I didn't get the wine. And you don't want to be the guy who didn't get the wine. No matter what your excuse is. I'm telling you, bro. Apply that to everything. Apply that to something important, you know?

Jade's wine is important, by the way. So unimportant. Jeez. Nonetheless, yeah. All good things. We got from this podcast, I think. Next question. Does the you know what else is cool about this podcast?

What is people that hearing from people that have done made some awesome progress. Yeah, and that's awesome that that's that's that's that is actually the best thing about the podcast. Yeah. Is hearing from people out in the field that got promoted got a new job moved to a leadership position lost 72 pounds gained 12 pounds of lead muscle mass. You know, whatever those. Whatever the achievement was. I talked to a guy the other day that that stopped biting his nails Right like you don't think much of it. Yeah, but he said he bid his nails for you know 34 straight years and tried the little nail polish that goes on there and you know you you go to the hypnotist and you go to all these different things now and you know what you know what you finally said? I'm not gonna bite my nails anymore right not gonna do it I'm gonna impose my will Yeah, switch to manual. Yeah. So here and everybody that does that kind of thing is awesome.

That's definitely the most that so I guess I'm going into not what I learned right this the general overall reward of the podcast. Yeah. Is to talk to people that have made some significant progress in their life and they attribute that progress to listening to the podcast, which I always reattribute when they comment about it back to them because I I didn't stop biting your nails. You did. I didn't lose 72 pounds.

You did. I didn't get promoted. You did. That's you. That's not me. That's you. Yeah, man. And so it's cool that you got a little,

little boost from the podcast. Maybe you saw something a little bit differently. That's awesome. But, you know, you out there in the field, you're the one that's making it happen. Yeah. We're sitting back here, maybe providing a little cover fire, little cover and move going on.

Yeah. But the thing that's cool about that, too, is, It's it proves what we talk about on here all the time, which is the human will is so strong Yeah, but people sometimes people go through their life. They didn't know that they had it right and so they just got to get recognized That hey, you've got this strong will That you can you can you can use I was I was I was listening to an interview with Jack Black of tenacious D and he was talking about when he first discovered that he had a good singing voice and he was in high school and he tried out for some school play and then

he was supposed to sing this part and he hit that note and when he did he said to himself like wow you know I've got this thing I got this Lamborghini I didn't know I had this I got this extra gear that I can kick into and that's exactly what he says by the way he's just got this extra gear that's what I think people listen to the podcast they all of a sudden realize I got this extra gear. They got this thing that they didn't know they had because they never had it tested before, never talked about it, no one ever showed it to them. They didn't recognize it for whatever reason. And all of a sudden they realized, oh, I got this human will that is stronger than my weakness.

And I'm just going to engage it. Watch this. Yeah. Nail biting? No more. Jelly donuts? Not happening. Yeah. Getting outworked at work, not going to happen. Yeah. And it's, I think it's surprised because I'm one of those people, straight up, where I was surprised how much, how little. little actual will it took to make these little changes, you know, because and it's good because it does like these books and stuff. It puts it into perspective where these guys are really

exercising their will, you know, with these crazy things. And all that is is an illustration. That's it. It didn't even take me hearing that to understand that, oh, it doesn't take much will to do a workout when I didn't feel like it. It didn't, it didn't take that for me to recognize it. That's just an illustration. It took me actually doing it and being like, that wasn't hard at all. It seems hard. And here's another reason why people don't realize it. I think I was one of those people who didn't realize. Because everywhere you look, you're always seeing like the four helpful tips to stop biting your nails.

Or the four, all these like external things. You know, they go into it, go to a hypnotist. You know, go do something outside of yourself kind of thing. Put some nasty tasting nail polished on your fingers. Yeah. So it makes you not want to buy all this stuff where really all you have to do. Just how you always say all you have to do is. Do it you know you don't do you want to stop biting your nails okay stop biting your nails and if you really look at it like that

Where like if you would have said to me oh you don't feel like working out go work out if I would been okay I don't feel like working out So so so I'm gonna go work out and you just keep it that simple that's all you got to do right you like you're done with a workout You're like that was easy I'm gonna do that next time you almost kind of look forward to doing it every once in a while You like look forward to exercising you will you just like you get look forward to certain workouts sometimes Not always. Right. Sometimes I'm like, oh, good. I got squats today and I don't want to do it.

But sometimes you're like squats. Yeah. So you can get the same feel about mobilizing your will. Yeah, it's like that. Yeah, exactly right. That's exactly what it is. That's actually one of the reasons. I was listening to, you know, Brady guys, they have that the Trooper Project podcast.

I was listening to one with Arbil, either Arbor or April. I don't know how you say it. Arbil. Yeah. I just know him from, I just know it from. Yeah, but I just know him from Twitter. Yeah, yeah. So I've never heard his name pronounced.

So I don't know. Savage, big, you know. Yeah, a beast. And they were talking about, you know, what music you listen to in the, you know, when you work out and stuff to get nuts. And, bro, I don't listen to any music. And that's one of the reasons where, well, that's why I did it. I was like, I'm always trying to distract myself from the pain, you know, and let me listen to this music to get me fired up or to make me feel good kind of mentally. And so I can get through the pain of, you know, I don't know, Metcons or whatever.

I'm like you know what I'm gonna do listen to no music but it turns out I like that better now because you just feel more in touch with like what you're doing But oh here's a here's one so I'll do a What are they called they're kind of like front squats but you hold the two kettlebells like this? Yeah, they're like I forget what they're called but So I'll do 25 reps of 25 so it's hard so when you get to about 12 You're like oh you got you know you kind of start to hit a certain type of wall and then when you get up to like 16 18 you're like oh you know so what as a result of that i would play little numbers games in my mind so i'd count backwards from six six five four you know i mean so you's kind of like oh i'm approaching the end it'll be done soon kind of thing but what

what i started doing is like nope i'm gonna count them one two three four five and you'll and in the beginning i started to feel like dang when i'm getting up to 12 i'm like oh my gosh the pain is coming and it comes and you're like dang and then then instead of playing more mental games, like, let's just count down from here. Because so the end is, you know, in sight. Nope. I'm going to count up now. And when you count up, the numbers going up give you this weird mental picture, like the pain is coming more now.

Because you're deeper into this thing, you know? And it's like this, it's almost like mental abuse you're doing to yourself. But after a while, you kind of look forward to that. You kind of look forward to those higher numbers, you know? It's like bring it kind of thing. And it gets you, it essentially gets you even more fired up. Yeah. That's good.

Oh, I'm telling you, embrace the pain. I agree. Does the inability of the average person to defend themselves make them more susceptible to fear generally in life? And can Jiu-Jitsu, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, reduce societal fear? I think it's a pretty obvious answer. But, yeah, I mean, obviously, if you can defend yourself, it's going to give you more confidence in the world. And if you don't know how to defend yourself, you're going to have more fear in the world. That's just the way it is.

And I know that Jiu-Jitsu definitely gave me a lot of confidence in the world because when you're looking at someone, you at least know you're not a pushover at a minimum. You know, I'm not going to go out easily. So, yeah, I think if you don't know how to defend yourself at all, I think you're definitely going to be more susceptible to fear. That's kind of common sense and also the the thing with not knowing when you don't know about things you You are more scared of them you've been confrontations because you're on them on the jitza mat you're in Comfortations all the time and if you do an occasionally you know occasionally you should put on boxing gloves and box and even strike during Jiu jitza you should do that stuff so you recognize what it's like to be in a fight and then you have you'll be less afraid of the unknown because it's known. We're always afraid of the unknown.

Well, now this is known. Now the other thing is the better you are with jiu-jitsu and the better you are at fighting, the less apt, the less likely you are to have to use it. Because people will know that by the way you're acting that you're probably not a person that should be messed with. And the other thing is, I think when people actually know how to fight, they put up less of a front about who they are

about trying to act like a tough guy because hey man I'm feeling pretty good you know I got no problem saying hi to you I can say hi to you in the street like hey how's it going no big deal I'm not feeling like you're gonna take advantage of me now because I know how to fight so a lot of jiu jitsu guys are super nice guys you know because they're not trying to prove how tough they are because you actually know how tough they are yeah so I think that's pretty

obvious you know that's the many benefits of Jiu Jitsu from a personal level. And then as far as societal fear, I would also say, yes, it's helpful. Because if you can handle yourself on a personal level, right? Then you can handle yourself in other dynamic situations. And you're more aware of things and you are better at staying calm, right? Jiu Jitza teaches you how to stay calm.

Well, yeah. You get in a bad situation. If you panic, you're going down. And you get in put bad situations all the time. So you get used to it and you realize that you need to, to attach and you need to get out of your head and can't panic and can't get claustrophobic you used to get claustrophobic and you don't really get claustrophobic too much anymore allegedly straight up and and also with jiu jiu jitsu and you know mixed martial arts training boxing moitai wrestling you overcome adversity you have to and so when you know how to overcome adversity on the mat or in the cage or in the ring that's going to help you in real life overcome adversity so I think that those are real simple reasons why jihiz is good if you didn't think I thought jiu jitz

is good I do think it's good for good for everyone right update right and really there's a lot of martial arts you could put in there I'm talking about jih Tzu but it's the same with boxing it's the same with with moitai it's the same with wrestling it's the same with judo sometimes I forget to mention judo I shouldn't judo's also very effective martial art. So I think all those things are very helpful for personal, overcoming personal fear and giving people confidence and thereby overcoming societal fears as well. Yeah. This is kind of a side note with with jiu jitsu for us. Let's say, and this more applies to this concept kind of has been coming up recently where, you know, your first day in jiu jitsu, where you, I think you and

me and kind of our time where we started jiu jitsu, we didn't look at. at it in terms of like pulling guard I didn't even know you started jiu jitsu in 1992 I'm just saying from 92 all the way to about I don't know I don't know the date but I'm saying if you like old school jiu jitzy where you probably started jiu jih T because of hoist gracie if you're one of these people one of us that's why I started jiu jih Tuihs gracey one ufc one two you know where we looked at jiu jiu jitsu as okay if I get in a fight with someone I want to be able to win the fight even if he's bigger than me it wasn't because oh I want to be this

the next world champion, you know, concerned about how to effectively hold, you know, the most points over somebody. How am I going to score points in this? Yeah. Or when I pull guard, like, the coolest, like, flip move I can do or whatever. And I'm not saying, like, that's what it is. I'm not saying that, but that is in the game now. So sometimes, as a result of this, sometimes you can go with no jiu-jitsu experience.

You don't know about twice gracey necessarily. You haven't, you know, that isn't what compelled you to learn jiu-jitsu. You just hear great things, like, you know, from DACO or whoever. And you're like, hey, I want to go learn jiu-jitsu. This is the best fighting thing according to Jaco. I'm going to go see. I'm going to go see what up. And then they go in there and then let's say the first day,

they'll learn, you know, just an arm lock from the bottom or, you know, something that if you don't go in with the full context of what jujitsu is, it won't translate. You know, you'll learn a move and you'll be like, wait, how am I going to go win a fight now? You know, it's like, cool. That's a cool move. It's kind of like, you know, a guy, hey, let me show you when you're a kid, let me show you this finger lock. And you're like, that's cool. But how are you going to get my finger, boy?

Exactly, you know, like all this day just doesn't apply to a fight. So just to answer your question, I just did a little, like, tiny instructional thing for some people that hadn't trained before. And it was to support a charity. And so it's all good. But, you know, these people have never done Jitzibs before. And I taught them, you know, the mountain escape, right? And immediately, you know, one of the guys, hey, you know, what happens when they do this? Because he's doing this right here.

Okay, so bring it back in, everyone. And basically, you know, after this happened a couple times, I said, here's the deal. I'm teaching you a new language. Yeah. So far, I've taught you the word the. Right. Right. That's the only word I've taught you, the.

Yeah. I haven't even taught you I, because that would be a context of self-awareness, which you don't have any. Right. We don't have any. You only know the. That's it. That's it. That's all you know.

And actually, I shouldn't have even, I should have said, I just taught you the word purple. Yeah. Because you. You can't the actually can apply to different things right this when you just learn one thing It's it's not meaningless, but it's only it's almost if you walk into a foreign country and the only word you know how to say Was purple yeah in their language. It's not gonna get you very far at all right? Right. It's not no and that's the same thing. So you're right in the context of like a singular move Jiu Jitsu is worthless right now back in the day when I learned five moves and knew of the real real naked joke the arm lock the Camira and no one else knew anything when you can say five different words in a world where no one can speak yeah you have power and that's the way it used to

be now it's not like that anymore everybody everybody watches UFC yeah everybody watches UFC and so everyone's seen an arm lock before everyone's seen a rear naked choke they you can watch a rear naked joke and see that's a simple move you can see how you put that on somebody so yes you are correct but if you got it you got to do more than just the context of like a singular move because that's not going to be very useful to you. Yeah. So when you, I remember watching you, and there was a guy who would commentate, right, kind of a dirty guy, but he, he kind of knew. Apparently he took jiu-jitsu, so he would kind of call it. He'd be like, okay, so no,

Hoys Grisie, he wants to get on top right now, establish his position. He can't get the take down, so now he's pulling guard kind of thing. And then or he'll be like, okay, he's establishing position with a mount, and he's going to, he's going to punch him until he turns over, and then he's going to choke him. And he's calling it, and he does it, right? So I remember thinking, okay, that mount position very, it's very powerful. Or if he's on the bottom, you want guard kind of thing. You can see, you know, because you can't explain.

So when I first started jujitsu, like an actual class, I knew what guard was. I knew what mount was. I knew those positions and why they're important where, you know, like if someone's mounted on you, where Hoyst-Gracy would always be mounted on the person, it's like, it's really hard to get out. He's going to struggle. And if you turn over, you're even worse situation, you know. So I kind of knew that. So I knew the actual context.

And a lot of people, when they go in jiu-tizu just because they hear about how cool it is, they don't have that foundation going in. So, man, I think that I don't know if they'd ask for it or what, but I think when instructors, when a new person, a brand-new person, don't know, zero days of jih Tijuana if they teach that. Like, this is the mount, this is why it's important. You know, just like how you did at the muster where you're like, you know, I can hit you, you can hit, just like that.

And then that will provide content. And then at the end, how you taught a move, you know, of submission or whatever. Then it's like, okay, in Mount, this is one of the many things you can do. And it's like, oh, I get it. And by the way, when I say many, I mean infinite. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. So, yeah, I think that if you, and I guess this goes out to like anyone who goes into their

jiu-suitzoo class and learned, just happened to be on the day where you learn like some kind of arbitrary move, given the fact that you don't know the foundation. With the foundation, any move is going to make a lot more sense. As long as you have that foundation the importance of mount the importance of you know all these other things Of course we all want to learn the submission what cool submission who can I get this guy in who wants to fight me Yeah, another thing that people ask is you know will they they they're he keeps pulling my hand away I go yeah it's a fight You're fighting another person. It's not just who's not magic Yeah, I say jiu jih T's magic but it's not magic. It's not magic. It's an act

It's a fight the person's gonna resist you have to have moves. Yeah, I didn't it doesn't turn into magic until you have all together yeah then it turns into magic and then you bestow it upon someone who doesn't you know yeah it is like magic right man I used to try this little guy George he's a purple belt and I was white belt and man he's he's he's the one who taught me butterfly guard he was small too and he would be flying me around doing butterfly guard sweeps and like straight arm locks and stuff like from the bottom yeah like bro what is this guy doing magic yeah and one time he's like someone at while we're you know how like when you're rolling you can

can kind of talk to people while you're rolling, especially if you're rolling with a guy who's advanced as well, because you don't have to focus on what you're doing kind of thing. So this was an introduction of that concept. Where I'm rolling with George, he's carrying on a conversation with this guy. Not inappropriate. Like, hey, what did you do last weekend?

It wasn't that. It was someone was asking him like, hey, like, how did you do that kind of thing? He's like, well, this is what he's doing. And while we're rolling, he's kind of commentating his rolling. And he's like, so, and this sets up the sweep, which I'm about to get him with. And it, yeah, and he gets me with the sweep.

And keep it to the small guy. That's why it is. why it is kind of magic magic because if I could make this coin disappear if I could actually do that that would be magic yeah if I can take your arm against your will and straighten it out and there's nothing you can do to stop it yeah it's kind of magic too yeah in some way yeah I mean that is what magic is though right when when you make make it make it appear it's like illusion right where you no no but I'm not talking about I'm

talking about actual yeah actual magic yeah no such thing yeah well yeah I don't except for jitzer but it just seemed that way when they don't know when they don't know how you did that yeah how did that yet yet it okay I see what you're saying you're saying so like so it's similar to that making the coin disappear but it really just went behind yeah knuckle or whatever it's impossible I'll wait you like 50 pounds do it yeah let me see how you did that yeah watch this do it again do it again I still don't got it do it do it again do it again good next question

hi jocco i've been listening to you to you ever since i first heard you with tim ferris i've been considering jiu jiu jitsu same thing yeah ever since hearing you guys talk about it so passionately however i've had a shoulder i've had sole shoulder surgery liberal tear in the past and some issues with bicept tendinitis and i'm worried that grappling sport that a grappling sport might make me prone to injury again would you recommend jiu jitsu for someone like me Thanks in advance for taking the time and providing your advice.

So there's another form of jiu-jitsu actually that I don't talk about very much, but it's definitely a feasible thing for a situation like this. And that's the learning jiu-jitsu. Yeah. Right? Learning jiu-jitsu, learning the moves, drilling them, gaining the understanding of how they all fit together and then only sparring in like a really controlled environment. And by that, I mean highly skilled instructor that is. going to hurt you or let you get hurt doing something stupid and that will provide you with enough resistance so that you know moves are gonna work but not taking it to fall on level

27 you know blood bath battle and unfortunately this situation is kind of is very likely and I've seen this before I'm sure you have to where you get somebody that maybe they had an injury or maybe they're they're in some job where they can't get hurt you know oh right right And so or an older person that doesn't want to get hurt because they're in the middle. So I've seen this, people do this before. What they do is they basically take jiu jit-s. They take private jiu-jitsu classes and they only roll with the instructor and they learn moves and they learn how to put together. That's one way to do it is you just find a good, now you, I've heard nightmare stories about this too, where the jiu-jitsu instructor feels the need to prove himself, which is just pathetic.

Yeah. There's no way. When you go in and you tell an instructor, hey, I've got a bad shoulder I've got a bad knee I've got a bad neck I've got a bad back Whatever you tell them and you say look I just want to I just want to learn the techniques and and learn how to apply them in a very fundamental way I'm not here to compete I have no ego and I don't want to prove anything I just want to be more knowledgeable The jih jih Tzu instructor should be more than happy to take you on board and and and let this you know do this You can also do it if you I mean because jiu jih Tzu private instruction is very expensive

You can also do it in a group setting, but what you have to do is you have to keep your ego completely in check unlike anything you've ever tried before. Because every idiot, and by every idiot, I mean every human being on earth, all of them. You take that person, if I take a person that weighs 145 pounds who's never trained any jiu-jitsu or wrestling before, and I say, okay, You know you want me to teach you to here. I'm gonna put this arm lock on you and I take their arm And I say okay, so this is what it feels like when you get arm locked their instinct is well you how are you getting my arm there You won't be able to do that and they're gonna fight it They're gonna fight it always gonna fight it so everyone's ego gets involved So you have to just completely put your ego in check because you think oh I'm gonna roll with this guy over here

But I'm gonna think a little bit stronger and you just get hurt that's how you get hurt yeah especially if you have pre-existing in So you have to do that you have to find the right training partners that are completely mellow and have nothing to prove and are very relaxed and and Experienced in jiu jitsu so if they do catch something that's gonna be a little bit awkward They say oh yeah man I just let you go no big deal no big deal at all and and and and and you do that and then you Slowly very slowly escalate over time once you know and understand Jiu Jitsu you start to go a little bit harder Still keeping your ego in check and all that now if you do that you should be able to get into jujitsu over I'm not a doctor I don't know the condition of your laboral tear so I I'm I I don't have the authority or the or the what the proper credentials to to give you the go ahead but if you do what I just said there's you should be okay now the problem is that's hard to do what I just said it's hard for everybody because everybody's competitive and you jiu jitzus a very competitive thing and when I say competitive it's mentally competitive it just makes

you think I want to want I had these guys in the other day these guys are you know senior executives learning jihitsu for the first time didn't know anything and I taught them you know how I taught them the oompa in the elbow escape to to escape them out I I told them to go through them like just to practice the move on each other they do they do six minutes of it they come back in the middle they're sweating you know some of the pairs are sweating because they were having a level seven battle. Yeah, yeah. And those, and these were, again, 45, 50, 55 year old executive type people.

But you try and teach them a move and they want to fight. So that's what you got to be careful of. And, you know, you don't want to get, you know, you don't want to worse your injuries. You don't want to do other, you don't want to have other sports impacted. You know, you might enjoy surfing or whatever playing. another sport, basketball, and you ruin it, and now you can't play because you did jiu-jitsu? I don't want that to happen to you.

But you can do jih Tzu in a controlled way that you shouldn't need to get hurt, but you need to keep your damn ego in check. Okay. Yeah, and another thing that seems obvious, I think, but apparently is not as obvious. Like, you know how you have laboral therapy, especially if you had surgery.

I've had, yeah, if you had surgery, and bicepteniditis. These are all things that like if you do a, yeah, okay, you got to do a separate program. But you do rehab, like you'll improve that. And that's really the main thing with these injuries. You know how people, whether they have back or they have shoulder stuff that they get surgery, they get it fixed.

And then, but it's still, you know what, you're just going to have that for the rest of your life kind of thing. Bro, if you focus on rehab, like it's a straight up workout where, I mean,

don't push it because that's not what rehab is. You rehab it. But you rehab it. But you focus on that like it's an actual program, like a workout program, take it seriously. Bro, you can, a lot of times you can get rid of these things fully, especially like tendonitis, bicep, tendonitis. Like, I had surgery on my bicep, straight up, torn off the bone surgery.

So of course, I'm going to be prone to tendonitis. But you just, man, you've got to treat it like it's like that's another thing of your body that you've got to develop, you know? Got to focus on it. Tendinitis, you know? So, man, I would recommend that big time where, and you'll be more compelled to do it when you find out how fun jiu-jitsu is and you're like, shoot, I could be. like getting after it rolling way better if my shoulder like just felt better and man you go do some

extra stuff like all these little rotator movements for your shoulder because it's shoulder too serge like during a demonstration you know serge it's not sometimes doing a demonstration pulls my shoulder out which was kind of hurt from like the day before from remember Ryan gillespie oh yeah yeah so he hurt my shoulder then serge heard it the next day anyway so it's jacked couldn't do any pressing whatever do those little bent like you use those rubber band things And I would use the cables at the gym at 24th Fitness. And men, it brings it back. And tendonitis, same thing.

You can get therapy and stuff like that. Do that, man. And it'll help it. So if you didn't do any kind of rehab and then you just jump into Jiu-Jitsu, it's like, yeah, you're going to be way more prone. Yeah. And, you know, the, the disclaimer here is like, it's Jiu-Jitsu. It's a contact sport and you're going to get twisted up. And if you're scared of getting twisted up and you are a,

you know, concert pianist or you're a surgeon you need to accept the fact that this is the this is a full contact sport and you can definitely get hurt. You know, and we have, we have, we have an actual surgeon, you know, we got several doctors, but we have an actual hand surgeon. And, you know, Dr. Luke trains,

ghee, no ghee, does it all. Full speed and full speed, all the time. Black belt, by the way. Yeah, black belt, by the way, MMA fighter too. But but yeah He knows the risks he's cautious He tapes his finger you know he just yeah Take the precautions

Yeah you take the precautions and then you accept that there is a level of risk You know I trained for 20 whatever five years and I hurt my finger you know like whatever a couple weeks ago And and I just hurt the another finger you know these things happen So what are you gonna do you're gonna not train that's a that's that's a possible It's kind of an option, I guess Yeah, it's kind of an option But you can train in a method that you are a lot less likely To get hurt and you can go so far in the spectrum of not getting hurt that you that you could

Really get that possibly getting hurt to an absolute minimum Yeah You know that and that's what I said if you're training with a black belt instructor and you're just doing privates and you guys have a really good understanding Your chance of getting hurt are pretty small Yeah Yeah fully But yeah if you did if you let that keep you from doing it,

I think you're doing yourself more harm than good. And that goes for anything, really? It's like, dang, if you have to go to the post office, but you're scared of the statistics of car crashes, and so what do you do, not go to the post office? Bro, you got to mail that thing, you know? Yeah. You got to get it done.

True statement. Next question. You got to mail that thing, echo. Or whatever, you know, whatever the case may be. When you're stepping into a leadership rule, and you have someone on your staff, who's not a team player, creates clicks,

goes over me and straight to my bosses when there's a problem. And whenever has concerns voices them among teammates and not directly to me, how do I continue in my role? How do I assess myself

and how do I tackle this problem? The biggest thing we got to do is build a relationship with that person. You know, you got to get in that person's head, you got to find out what's going on, you've got to find out, you got to talk to him. You got to build that relationship,

you're going to talk to me They're going over your head You then then you know what when they say well I'm going over your head because this happens you go oh I didn't know that you know I'm gonna get that fix Mm hmm and you build up a little trust and then they say some other problem and you get that one fixed And then you say hey man, you know it's you know it's kind of hurts the team is When you're telling the team things that are negative And if we could work together to you tell me what's going on that's negative and then we've solved the problem

We're gonna do better as a team And that's my goal is just to do better as a team. And I see that you're a leader because people listen to you. And when you start saying negative things, they start thinking negatively because you're just an influential person. And the influence you have over people is something that is going to be, can be very beneficial to what we're doing. If you want it to be, I want you to want it to be. But, you know, I'm not you. You have that.

I don't. So let's work. If you could help me. move this in a positive direction so our team can be more successful. That's the kind of thing I would do here. And the other thing is, you know, ask them straight up, hey, what am I doing wrong as leader? What can I do better? Where can I become, where can I make more things happen?

So that way, and what you're doing is you're letting down your guard, you're letting them, giving the opportunity to hopefully be honest with you about what you're doing wrong. And then you can give them, you know, you can correct those measures. Now, there is a possibility that this person, you're letting them, you're is a jerk and when you say what am I doing wrong they go back and say this guy doesn't even know what he's doing he's so that's why you need to take it slowly and feel the situation out and and make an assessment of how they're gonna react to these things and build a little bit of a little bit of leadership capital with that

person before you go and say what am I screwing up because it's go dude jocco doesn't even know what he's doing he's asking me what he should be doing so don't if the person's a jerk you have to watch out for that so that's we're going to build a relationship first It's like building a relationship seems like a very Common theme far stretching solution. It is very much so You know you take the extreme example of I'm a hostage taker and you're my hostage And I'm threatening to kill you what are you supposed to do build a relationship with me? You want to get me to see you as a human

That's what we're talking about. It's the same thing. That's an extreme example yeah, but this is the same thing going on here. It's a really don't by the way I heard this was starting It was on the news. I forget how old the girl was. It was a kid though a girl a kid, and she'd all she did was blabbed to this guy who kidnapped her and he wound up letting her go. There you go. Because she built their relationship with him. So this team member that's creating clicks and doing all this negative stuff. It's because he doesn't know you. Yeah, and he's just going I don't know. I don't know. Jockel is a mystery to me. He doesn't hang out. I don't know. He's he's bad. There's a separation. Yeah. So I'm going to close that separation. I'm going to blab to him. I'm going to blab to him. I'm going to build a relationship and we're going to let that little kid go. Yeah. Yeah. I remember working in the nightclub where, you know, you have different bosses, different managers, they work different shifts or whatever.

So one guy, his name is Matt Gilmore, tall, tall guy. I love that guy. He was real, I don't know, for whatever he said, I could just relate to him, you know. He was just real nice. And I don't know, the way he talked was kind of not funny like a comedian, but just kind of, you know how some people when they talk. just kind of entertaining, you know, every time every once in a while they'll use certain words

that's just kind of unique to them. It's like, oh, I like that. Anyway, really liked him. And so I was hoping, and he would usually work on Friday, Saturdays, right? Because he was kind of high up. And then there was this other guy. I'm not going to say his name. Nonetheless, it was this other guy. And this guy, he was like the full-on kind

where he had this air about him where I'm the manager of this club kind of thing. And on off times, if he'd be at like a party or something that we were cruising or whatever and he'd talk about how yeah you know I'm in the office doing these sexual things with this person and just you know real real douche for lack of better than real douchey kind of guy and one time he was um there was this rule long this long time ago there's this rule you can't go upstairs there was like three levels in this club so you can't go upstairs it's like this high end kind of

lounge you can't wear jeans upstairs it's just there's a dress coat I hadn't been to that one yeah no no no you would not be welcome flip flops and shorts or no no you won't even get in the front of there, apparently. So one day on my off night, I had jeans on. I went upstairs real quick just to talk to one of my friends, cake nuts, and because he was up there. And so I was talking to him, and this guy, this manager, the one I didn't like, he was up there.

And he'd be like, hey, the rules apply to everyone, you know, go downstairs. So I'm like, oh, you know, I'm just, I will. I'm just going to talk to him. He's like, the rules apply to everyone. Go downstairs. Like, not be nice about it at all. So I'm like, all right, whatever. That's just an example of one experience.

the next week he comes in on his night off jeans upstairs or whatever and as a joke not being a dick as a joke i was like hey you have jeans on i was working and he's like he goes he's oh yeah well my title has a bit more letters than yours does yeah that's what he said to me so you know i'm not sure where we're going with this no that i was going to say that's an example of him not building a relationship with me he certainly did not. Matt Gilmore wouldn't have said that. He would have either compromised with me the first night or he would have laughed at my joke and be like,

ha ha, good point, whatever, or both. He probably would have done both. Still friends with Matt Gilmore, by the way. Okay, next question. In light of recent events, what is the best course of action when confronted by an obvious abuse of authority resulting in personal injury due to an innocent person to an innocent person to an innocent person to an innocent person that that occurs in one's presence

At what point is it acceptable to physically engage with the assailant? Even though the assailant has some kind of authority. Sorry, that's two questions. What what? What's the recent event? Recent event is the person on the airplane getting dragged off and injured? Yeah, because the was overbooked and all that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Overbooked flight. Yeah, so what and you know obvious I guess you could put more recent events is you know if you if you could have a Police officer right right that's doing something you could have a bouncer you know I'm sure you have plenty of stories about your nightclub days besides just wearing jeans in the wrong area I know is a big violation but so so here's what here's here's here's my answer to this what do you do in one of those things has happened first of all the people

that are in the situation are wrapped up in the situation they're they're emotionally mentally wrapped up in the situation the situation is escalated they're caught in a storm mm-hmm and you're not in the storm you're outside the storm so what do most people do and they see that storm going on what do most people do tell me panic no they pull out their iPhones and they start recording the situation that's what they do that's what everyone does hey oh there's a fight going on world star let's video you know what I'm saying I've impressed that you know about world yeah well they have a lot of good fights on there

You have to watch. So yeah, well, because you learn from you see the way people act. You see some human nature in in videos. So that's what people do. So what you actually want to do instead of pulling out your video is you want to try and get them out of that moment emotionally. You want to talk to them like a normal person engage with them. You know, hey, hey, sir, you need to calm down. That's just a police officer. He doesn't mean any harm. Hey, hey, you know, officer that that guy's not. a threat to you right now you know just take a step back it looks like he's trying to relax you know you want to talk to them disengage him get their heads out of those bad scenarios yeah and you know be in a calm voice say some things like i said say something hey officer there's a lot of people that are videoing this right now you know just a lot of people saw what happened so let's it's you don't have to do anything else you can let's let's get this person under control i can give you a hand whatever you know you just want to you and and you and you and you're And of course, what is their initial reaction

gonna be back at you? But just back away or, you know, shut up. You know, you don't know. And so you need to absorb that, right? Say, hey, look, I'm not giving you any threats at all. I'm just here to help out. I don't want to see any trouble. Don't want you to get in trouble.

You just want to talk to people and get them to get them out of that emotional storm that they're in. Both sides, both sides. Because it's a really nasty situation. You know, when you don't listen to me, when I start to hurt you, when I grab your wrist, let's say like one of those like police pain compliance type moves, I grab your wrist and I start to twist it.

You as a human being, the natural instinct, some people might have the instinct to comply, but a lot of people have the instinct. If you grab me and start hurting me, I'm gonna pull away. Okay, you're resisting. Now you're resisting.

So what I need to do, I need to go harder. Well, the harder I go, the more you resist. And you see where this is going. Next thing you know, I'm beating you in the head. Because I don't know how to use a chokehold, unfortunately, because in some areas, choke holds are illegal. So, again, as the outsider, you want to pull them out of that. You want to talk to them. You want to get them to see that outside of the emotional storm that they're in both sides.

Both sides are an emotional storm. Physical intervention, you know, now we are talking like this is a serious step. Start stepping into these scenarios, you don't, you know, you want to be very, very careful about stepping into one of these situations. And even that physical escalation should be or physical intervention should be just with the sole purpose of de-escalating, right? You're not walking over and, you know, grabbing a guy. No, hey, you know, it's like a hand on the shoulder. Hey, sir. A officer, hey, you know, TSA agent or whoever you are. Hey, let's just come. down let you want me to give you a hand getting this person under control you know you you don't want to get these people to where now you become because as soon as you do

that you just ended the storm yeah you you part of the storm now yeah even though you're trying not to be you're you're you're entering the storm so you got to be very very cautious about what you're doing there and you know what would I do in a situation where I saw someone getting you know beat to death you know I'm gonna do what I just said you know Now might I go a little bit further because I have a lot of experience and maybe I can handle a situation and de-escalate it physically? Yeah and you know you see this sometimes where something will be escalating and innocent civilians will come and help an officer secure a person. So those there's ways to do it. Yeah. You just got to be very very cautious when you do those when you do that because the other piece of this is and again you see this on on YouTube. You don't know what happened to get to this point. You don't know. know who that person is, who the perpetrator is, right? The perpetrator might look totally innocent, but you don't know any background.

So when you start stepping in there, you might be stepping in there to defend a person that just shot a person or a person that just, you know, got caught doing something or a person that really did resist the cops hard and do some damage. So I don't, I don't know. And I'm generally going to side with a police officer, right? I mean, the police officer, I'm respecting that they, that they're doing the right thing. Yeah, and so to step in there and start making something happen is not going to generally work out in a good way. Maybe you can help them get the perpetrator under control. But, yeah, to make the assumption that because a cop has escalated to a point of violence that the cop is an out-of-control crazy cop, it's not an accurate assumption. Yeah.

Most likely, that's the wrong assumption. Yeah. You know, cops are not walking around waiting to beat the crap out of people. That's not what they're doing. They don't want to do that. When it happens, it's something something has generally led up to it when we see it in a case that isn't like that. That's why we see it because it's now news. It's now news. Yeah So be very very careful about that again. You know most of the time, you know, just try and de-escalate it verbally ask if they need any assistance. Ask if you can call 911 for them and get more assistance for them. Ask if they need any help talk to that you know do that take that approach if you have to to physically intervene especially if you have some experience you know let them know what you're doing do you need any help do you need any assistance that type of thing and I'm sure we'll get some feedback from from some cops on this one yeah

and it'll be good yeah yeah I feel it when I was back to the bouncer situation when guys would you know a fight would break out so in a club when a fight break breaks out is more chaotic than you know in the street when you see two guys fighting so it's a little bit more dangerous when you jump into the fight to try to break it up because if you just jump in and grab the guy the guy doesn't know if you're trying to break up the fight or if you're a guy you're just another attacker yeah exactly right so he's going to start swinging or whatever um and that's not to mention any of that guy's friends who sees you do that in the dark you know all this you know the dark nightclub lights whatever so

he might hit you whatever and then you know bottles can be it it can be dangerous so if you jump in there with before you even touch the person You're already saying break it. What I would always say is either break it up or or calm down like come down guys. Break it up, break it up before you even touch them and they hear that. So when they feel you they don't feel a punch got it's like come down, calm down. And they feel you kind of it's more of a light given or compared to the guy who he's fighting with. It's not a punch.

It's not a wrestling moves. Nothing like that's like you're breaking it up. And you just gave me a good reminder too if you're on the outside and you see something like this going on like if you're on that plane you see this this this passenger you're getting roughed up. You know, hey, hey, hey, passenger, just calm down. Do what they're telling you to do. Just do what they're, just comply with what they're doing to do. You know, just relax.

You know, you can take it. You know, I definitely heard cops say this. Actually, I heard the guy that was on Sam Harris's podcast. Like, if you want to got an issue with what a cop's doing to you, bring it to the court. Let your lawyers handle it. Don't handle it right there. Because you're going to lose. You're going to lose that situation.

You're going to end up hurt. You're going to end up injured. be a bad scenario so same thing tell the tell you know if you see someone getting getting roughed up then hey hey man we're all watching just comply just do what they're telling you to do and take it up to with a lawyer later just try and get that person to calm down because that's you know chances are you know the police officer he's arrested thousands of people put his hands on thousands of people that person that's getting roughed up they haven't they've not been arrested you know I

I can guarantee you that United passenger probably never been arrested in his life. So here he is. And like I said, you start to pull me. I'm going to resist. I don't, people don't pull me. Nope, but don't pull me. But now all of a sudden we got an incident going on.

So if someone's saying, hey, listen, just listen to what they're telling you. You need to just calm down. You don't want this to get any worse, that type of thing. Yeah. Talk to people and get them to detach a little bit. Yeah. And obviously the United situation isn't, isn't this real linear situation where it's like, hey, that's the passenger's fault.

he should have just went with him kind of thing. You know what I mean? There's all, there's dynamics. Honestly, all I know about, I don't know anything about it, other than I saw the guy getting dragged out of the plane. That's the only part I saw a guy getting dragged out of the plane. And I saw the good Gracie, the Gracie breakdown of that of how to defend yourself in that situation.

Yeah, no, he was, he was, it's just a long story. He was, there was, that does apply. You know, if you're getting arrested or, or taken off the plane or whatever, and you you choose to fight for your rights right then and there. Hey man, that's a battle that you're gonna, you gotta do that, you know, and there's consequences to that. When you mean you got to do that? It's like, you ever heard the expression if you want to be a gangster,

you got to do gangster stuff? Okay. It's actually gangster shit, but. But, but you're not, you're not advising. I'm saying, if you want that beef, then you're going to get that beef. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. So, so yeah, do it.

But like I said, especially with like the cops, if they're arresting you and you're like, hey, you violated my rights. So I'm going to fight you right now for my rights. Yeah, if you want that beef, okay, but it's, you're going to be more, you're going to be safer, first off, and more effective if you fight for your rights administratively later, you know? And so nonetheless, kind of on attention there, but the, oh, when you're helping the cops or whatever, it's the same way as if you're a bouncer, you kind of identify yourself kind of thing, just like how you're saying. and it is easy, I think, too, and they call it availability bias, right? It's easy to be like, oh, these cops are beating this guy up,

and I see this on YouTube all the time where the cops just beat up these guys, you know? So these are bad cops or whatever. But it's like anything where, how you say, it made the news because it's this bad cop situation. It's in your mind, you know, all the good cops and the legit arrest, all that, the millions of, they're not on YouTube. Yeah.

Exactly. And even if they were, that doesn't stick in your mind. That's like business as usual. You know, okay, okay, whatever. Here's an exciting video of a police officer doing his job. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

No one wants to watch that. They want to see somebody screwing up. And they forget about it. It's totally not in their mind. So yeah, anything's, you know, being screwed up or anything that just has this emotional impact on their mind, they're going to think is like way more common than it really is. So I think it's important to kind of keep that in mind always, you know? Absolutely. Next question.

If you have a subordinate that hasn't improved after talks and instruction, but can't, but you can't fire them because of a union, what do you do? I'm going to find something that they're good at. And I'm going to get them to focus on that. And, you know, as a leader, that's what you're trying to do. As a leader, you got to make your team members. If you got team members that you can't get rid of for whatever reason and they're not quite doing what they should be doing or they're not up to speed, what can they do? What can they offer to the team? When I find out what you can offer to the team,

I'm going to have you focus on that. That's the way it is. If that causes some kind of disruption because, you know, Echo can only move 10 bricks a day and everyone else is moving 200. And so now everyone's all mad because Echo's not working and not carrying his load.

Well, I'm going to, you know, number one, I'm going to look for a job for him where no one sees him not carrying bricks, right? Hey, instead of doing that, you're going to organize the bricks over here. You're going to count bricks because you're weak.

Yeah, so you're going to be the brick counter. So that's what I'm going to do. I'm just going to change it up. I'm going to find out what they can do. That's what that's what you have to do as a leader. And by the way, I'm not going to give up on them. I might not invest a ton of time, but I'm going to keep saying, hey, you know, if you want to move from counting bricks to move in bricks, this is what you got to do. Here's what you got to do.

You got to keep working. You got to keep getting stronger to work on your deadlift. You know, get a little bit stronger so you can carry more bricks. So it's, you know, and that happens. It doesn't just happen because of unions. It happens for all different kind of, it happens in the military. You can't you get a guy that he's in a situation where yep, he's not going to get, we're not going to let him go. You know, we've got to keep X amount of people in country.

Okay. So this guy's one of the people in country. We're not allowed to get rid of them. Okay, cool. Well, what can he do? Maybe he can count bricks. You know, I'm going to have him be the best brick counter we got. You might have to do a little isolation too.

You know what I mean? You might have to isolate them a little bit. Again, because you don't want people thinking, oh, echoes over there. you know in the air condition and he doesn't do doing carrying his load and so that can cause problems. Yeah and Jocco's just letting it happen. Yeah, Draco's letting it happen.

You know, so you might have, you gotta figure this out. How do you isolate them a little bit? How do you make sure that they're working? You know, maybe you can only count bricks but don't have you working more hours, you know, or doing some other thing to make up for your slack in the brick carrying category.

Yeah. Bottom line, as a leader when you get somebody that doesn't quite do what they need to do. do and you can't get rid of them, find out what they can do and take advantage of it, using it to the best of their ability for supporting the team. Yeah, it kind of seems like, I mean, given what you just said, that, I mean, this might dumb it down too much, but it's a situation where you are making the best of it, right?

Exactly. And what I found in life, when you make the best of something, you don't get plagued with all it because, let's say the two scenarios. One, you're making the best of it, two, you're not. So when you're not, it's going to be burdening you every day. Echo's only moving 10 brick. That's going to bother me every day. It doesn't have to, by the way.

You're still going to move the same amount of bricks. We're going to get the same amount of work done. 10 bricks, 100 bricks, 200 bricks, whatever. But meanwhile, you're getting tortured all day because the fact that echo's not moving as many bricks or isn't air conditioning from whatever, that's bothering me every single day. But if you understand that we're making the best of this situation,

that's not going to bother either. We're making the best of it. It's the best situation. Very true. Better attitude. Yeah. Make the best of the sitch. Next question.

Ego is the enemy. Can you take that too far? I can joke about myself all day and be okay. But also, I don't want coworkers not to take me seriously. So that's actually kind of two questions. It's talking about ego and it's talking about choking around, right? Those are two different things a little bit. Like self-deprecate.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so can you, can you be too humble and put your ego in so much check that it hurts you? Yes, actually you can. You know, hey, Echo, how's it going? I'm in charge. I'm really horrible at this. I just don't know what I'm doing, right? That's not good.

You know, it's like I said to the Marine Lieutenant, right? Am I tell them to go into check in and say, hey guys, I, you know, I just got here, just got out of the basic school. I don't know anything really. Do you want to follow that guy? No, that's not what I'm talking about So can you be overly humble? Yes, like I said, it's okay to admit that you don't know everything But that doesn't mean don't be well prepared That doesn't mean don't be confident that you can figure things out that doesn't mean you can't ask good questions Right? It doesn't mean that you don't report in without knowing

The nomenclature and the fundamentals right? That's gonna you know I a jaco just checked in but he knows what our mission been he knows what our mission statement is he knows what how our basic processes he already looked at all that he knows everyone's name yeah I'm prepared I'm prepared so that's what you want to be that's not saying I have no idea what I'm doing right now I just got here no no that's not what we're talking about so don't be overly humble most people the reason I talk about the other one of be humble all time is because most people tend letting their ego be inflated. That's what most people tend towards. So I tend to talk more about, hey, keep your ego and check when you work checking. Because most people, they're so scared of looking bad. They say, well, I know how to do this. Right. Never seen it before. I know how to do that. Never seen it before. I know to look stupid. Hey, guys. Hey, I've been put in charge of this. I know you guys have been doing it for a while. Looking forward to learning from you on how you execute it and driving forward and keeping kicking ass in this mission. Does anyone get mad at that? No. Mm-mm.

It that's a lot different than hey guys. I have no idea what's happening. That's too much. Yeah. So don't go there Be humble, but not not passive put your ego in check, but don't turn into a baby word of the death The second part of this is a question about joking around too much and that's you know that's different from too much ego and absolutely you can joke around too much Now of course and we've talked about this a good team and a good leader, they're having fun. They're having fun with everything that you're doing. And I always had fun. I always had fun.

I still have fun all the time. I'm having fun. But if all you do is joke around all the time, then when it comes time for the joke to be over, people won't take you seriously. So that will be problematic. You know, I had a rule that was no joking on the radios. Right. So if you were on a radio, you weren't allowed to make jokes.

No joking on the radio. And what's cool about, because, You know in tasking a bruiser when I was a platoon commander when I was a assistant Patoon commander we had fun all the time we laughed we joked we had a blast with everything We did no joking on the radio you see what I'm saying yeah that was a law no joking on the radio and what was good about it Was as I think back to that what that translated to was we're not joking around in the field and that expanded like when we're briefing we're not joking around It was a very clear distinction of course did people have Did things happen out in the field sometimes?

We're like, oh my God, this is hilarious. Of course that happened. But the general, 99% of the time, 95% of the time was, hey, we're in the field, we're working, we are serious. That's the priority. Did we have fun in the field? Yes. Did I laugh in the field? Yes.

But the priority and this norm was we are going, we are serious and we are, that's the priority. So don't joke so much that you don't get taken seriously. One time I was with a senior ranking officer, a flag officer, meaning an officer with stars. And we went to go brief. I wasn't attached this unit, but they went to go brief this unit. Or we went to go receive a brief from a unit. And in the brief, in a PowerPoint slide, these guys had put a slide in that was an inappropriate slide. And it was a crude joke.

And it was really funny. I thought it was really funny, you know? I was like, oh, that's pretty funny that these guys did that. You know, I saw the slide. They had it up there, and it was completely inappropriate and vulgar, right? That's what it was. They didn't know this general at all, and he was a very straight-laced guy and didn't appreciate that kind of humor. And they had like the welcome slide.

The next slide that came up was this inappropriate vulgar slide. What was it? What was it? It was. You don't have to tell me. It was, it was. it was it was inappropriate I'll leave it at that and and you know it was like there was a chuckle in the room and at the same time there was nothing but silence in the room and you could feel the discomfort and

and since like I said I thought it was funny and I knew it wasn't going to go over well as soon as I saw it I was oh yeah this is not good and the reason I'm telling this big long story is because I have another rule don't put jokes into your slides in PowerPoint no jokes because you can you can articulate the joke because you can feel the room out yeah yeah see what's going on you can get it get a taste you can get a feel for them if you if you walk in if if they would have had a chance if I could have said freeze the first slides up you've you've met the general here for for five minutes do you want to remove that slide they'd be like oh absolutely let's get it out of that because they could see that

he was a serious guy and and not you know one to be that wants to be seeing that kind of thing. It didn't take, it wasn't hard. It was a pretty easy book to read. But you don't have that opportunity. There was no, hold on, we're going to delete this slide. No, there it was. Boom.

Welcome. It was after the slide of, you know, this is where we are. It was the welcome slide. And I said, ooh. So, no joking on the radio. No joking in your slides. Keep your slides clean. And the risk benefit, you tell a good joke.

Hey, that's great. You get, you know, two credits. Right. If your joke is bad and considered inappropriate, it's negative 39. I know, Brian. So it's not worth it. Yeah, it's not worth it. Yeah.

And again, I'm all about, you know, you want to have fun. When you're briefing, you want people to be entertained and have fun. But you don't want to have inappropriate stuff, no. Yeah. So that's that. For both these, for both these things, am I joking too much or am I being too serious? Am I, you know, is my ego too big or am I being too humble? it's a balance it's a dichotomy leadership and you got to find the right spot in the middle and you got to check yourself and you got to

You know if your team is joking when they shouldn't be joking guess what? You're leading them the wrong direction Yeah if your team is somber and doesn't have any spirit You're not having good enough time so you got to find the balance there same thing with ego you know are people talking with you and communicating with you and being open with you and telling you when they disagree with things or is no one talking to you? Because if that's the case, your ego is so big that they don't want to talk to you. So find the dichotomy leadership, find the balance between those two. Dang, that's a good one if they're not talking to you. Yeah.

Because you know how at work you're talking with your friends, you know? And then somebody comes, that person comes who you're like, oh, you know. For whatever reason, you're not necessarily talking about them or nothing. But they come and you've got to stop your conversation, you know? Yeah. That's like a little indicator. You know, if you roll up to sit, you see people across the room talking. And you're like, hey, that looks like a cool conversation or whatever.

Or I'm going to go say hi to Paul, whatever. And you go and they stop talking and they stop laughing. They just stop talking and they give you like small talk or whatever. That's an indicator. Yeah. Yeah. It's an indicator. It could be actually either one of those two.

If people are having a good time and you walk in and they stop laughing. Oh, so you say, okay. And if you walk in and they're having a conversation that they don't, they just, you know, don't want to talk to you. They're probably they probably don't like your big ego that's slapping them in the face Something put your ego in check We got time for one more one more Jock do you ever get worn down by everything you're trying to do and the things going wrong and things not working and having to work so hard only to come up short What do you do then? Of course

I mean of course of course I get worn down. Of course, I get frustrated with stuff. Of course, things don't always go my way. And of course, I come up short sometimes. Of course. But what do I do when those things happen? I keep going.

It's really that simple. I put one foot in front of the, other I move forward another inch another centimeter I write one more sentence I I in place one more brick on the wall I got through one more workout I step out onto the mat one more time because worn down isn't beat and frustration is not gonna kill me and the things that Don't go my way. They just turn into targets that I'm going to attack harder.

And when I do come up short, it's okay. Because I just learned one more thing that's going to get me over the top. So at those moments, at those low points, those times when it seems that defeat is starting to get the upper hand, You don't need some grand plan and you don't need a pep talk and you don't need a miracle. You just need to keep going. Just to keep going and don't stop regardless of what you are hit with. Because if you don't stop yourself, then nothing else can and nothing else. Will and I think that's all I've got for tonight.

So Echo, why don't you go ahead and talk about how we can support this podcast if we want to. If we want to. And support yourself if we want to, which we do, by the way. So we talk about on it, on it, supplements. Physical and mental, by the way. So I think, you know, I don't know. if we failed to mention this or we just been mentioning it a little bit less, which is alpha brain. We haven't talked about it.

I feel like we haven't talked about alpha brain that much recently. Been taking it, by the way, but not talking about it. This is good. Okay, so it's a new, they call it neutropic or neutropic? Something like that. That helps your brain. Nutrients to your brain, boom, directly. So two forms, the instant, it's like powder.

You mix it up with your gatorade. or whatever whatever No you don't need to mix it with Gatorade It doesn't You can mix it on its own Right right There's two flavors

By the way There's peach And then there's natural spice And the two flavors Taste exactly like what they sound What they're named That peach It tastes like peach

Yeah And natural spice Kind of natural spice A little natural spice But it's also It's got a little peach But it's got a little natural spice Right

It was like Dang I didn't know those two flavors yeah I have both that's why what is this one this one is all this one is natural spice that's natural spice yeah dig it boom but they have they they they they taste sweet right so you don't need to mix it with gatorade and you shouldn't be having gatorade anyways because it's just a bunch of sugar right in water maybe not a punch but we'll say some some electrolytes in nonetheless mix it with whatever you want man um or just pour it into your body it's powder that's the thing compared to the capsules

yeah whatever you like You know the powder one is called instant so it goes to your brain quick quicker. That's just an assumption Nonetheless here this is what it does which is cool. So you know how like you know how you're talking to somebody and you blank out on some something like somebody's name? No Whatever, but I guess you do it happened today It happened today because you gave me a word. Yeah, I don't think that's happened before wait. Oh before we were recording Yeah, no while we were recording live Quaintance. Yes, acquaintance. I didn't have enough alpha brain. No that was before we were recording anything. I think

No. All right. Well, there it is. Either way, that's what it does. You need more alpha brain now. No, I think you do. I think I'm right because I took two of these and I think that I'm correct.

Nonetheless, it doesn't even matter because what it does is it makes you do that way like actually you don't even do it. And I don't, I mean, maybe that's a deficient something about some kind of deficiency when that happens. You know, when they call brain farts.

I'm having a brain fart. You know, you don't get brain from it. It's a cosmic shame. It's like gas X for your brain. Essentially. You know how like gas xx. You know what that does, right?

So you don't do that. You don't have to think of words anymore. They just come, boom, for real. Now, I don't want, I kind of don't want to bring this up, but I will anyways, because I don't want to give people bias. You can tell me what cognitive bias is. But if you heard people, like your brother, Jade,

who says when he takes alpha brain, his dreams get all crazy. Yeah. So that's another thing that I, and I've seen, I've talked to other people that, more vivid dreams right with the alpha brain yeah so that's another thing just to be aware of yeah now just I what kind of cognitive bias is that that's not a call of availability bias because I said it

and now you're waiting for it and so now you have a vivid dream you think it's the alpha brain that's oh right right that's like that's a placebo effect yeah I guess but you're attributing it to something you're attributing it to alpha brain oh yeah huh so anyways that is a bias you may notice that your dreams become more vivid. I don't notice it, but I've heard some people say it. I think I heard Joe Rogan talking about it. Yeah, I heard of him much. And Jade is one of those people who said.

He said it before I even heard anyone else. He was like, oh, that's like a good thing. He didn't, it wasn't a complaint too. That's the thing. Lucid dreaming. Lucid dreaming. But yeah, I like- I don't have lucid dreams.

I have savage nightmares is what I have. And I wake up in a pool of sweat. And it's just, uh, get some. An alpha brain fueled savage night. Yeah, don't need that. We're not going to visit that one. Hopefully that doesn't happen to you, but the benefit that I am going to claim,

and it's proven too, by the way, in a double-blind placebo test, official off-brain helps with your recall, like your memory and all that stuff, which that's essentially what it is when you think about it. When you forget little, that one word, boom, that recall, boom, boom, boom, boom, it's just firing.

That's how, off the brain. So, yeah, if you're about to do something where you've got to think and talk a lot, which is everything, thing get on that alpha brain man you'd be glad you did i i took what i used to do a lot so before i before i knew how to switch to manual mode regardless i would take a pre-workout and alpha brain and it helped was money yeah actually got one of my better workouts on that little formula so i just kept doing it but you know how you do something over and over again whether

physiologically or otherwise you just you tend to lose that yeah it's like if you take caffeine all the time yeah i guess Yeah, in a way it's the same thing. Although they say alpha brains like take it all the time. Right. Take it on the regular. Yeah. Be in the blood.

Yeah. So mine more less had to do with like the direct effect of alpha brain in my memory and recall. It was more about the kind of workout I got, you know? That's placebo by the way. Maybe. Maybe not though. That's the thing. Or maybe I was just thinking of more cool stuff, you know?

So it was more enjoyable workout. Could have been that. Perhaps. Maybe. Maybe not. Nonetheless, we can stick to the evidence and the proof. You'll recall stuff better. memorize things better

it's good all day every day um also i got that strong bone remember a few weeks back i was like hey what that was a strong bone now you're all on that yeah the facts strontium it's one of those things here's the thing too you read the thing so calcium is that's the that's the flagship element mineral element whatever calcium that's the one that gets all the credit for your bones it's like you know the stront Trantium is like the stepchild like as far as recognition,

but strontium is super important and you lose that, you know, when you get old and whatever, but that's what, that's what strong bone is. Yeah, you think. Strontium. Yeah, you think it's strong bone, makes your bones strong. Which I think that's on purpose, dude. It's like a little play on words.

You think so? I think so, no. Aubrey, he's smart like that. Anyway, I take that strong bone. I did it because, as you know, I got bicep surgery. Tending on my bicep ripped off my bone. So if I'm still lifting I still do curls

Whatever I said it I don't need that thing ripping off I don't need tendinitis I don't need problems I don't need issues Got on that strong bone Also I take krill oil Jock would you take krill oil

Affirmative I think you've been taking Crill oil longer than I haven't And when I say I think It means I know Long time Even though I've been hearing About great things about

Crill oil From day one So anyway On the krill oil That helps with joints it gives you this feeling I said this before I will say it again

it gives you this feeling where and this physically it's not emotionally feelings are emotional just FYI yeah no feeling though if I flick your finger

you're gonna feel that so this is yeah no no all good all good you feel like like if you're sitting down for a long time and then you stand up

yeah while you talk about it when I stand bro when I stand up well you're on krill oil so you this applies to you too when we stand up if greg train was here like we were like a few weeks ago if great train was right he wasn't on the krill oil we all stand up after the same amount of time two hours ish he will be compelled to be like oh make that sound not crazy but he'll be compelled to make that sound whether he makes it or not he's gonna feel like

making it me i won't you you won't krill oil makes your joints young Again, for lack of better term. Anyway, it helps, though. Yes, but in all seriousness, if you are like lifting weights going hard. Yeah, take curl oil. Yeah, take the krill oil. It'll, I mean,

where would one get it? Do that. Onit.com. If you want, 10% off, you go on it.com slash jaco. It's the best krill oil, too. That's the thing. You can get lame krill oil anywhere.

Maybe not anywhere, but in other places, we'll say. But the real deal, the good stuff is on it. You don't want to get lame krill oil from no name krill. Yeah, you want the hardcore krill. It's true. Do you know how like like asai berries? Yeah, you know, like you know you can get junk asa'i like the reject assayne paid like cheaper. Actually this you want to grill is actually super good price anyway and you get 10% off from on dot com slash jaco. That's the 10% off part.

Nonetheless back to the assay berries. You can get the junk kind and try taste junk asai berries and then taste good assay berries. I Bro, the difference is like you can tell the difference big time. It's like night and day. Same thing with the krill oil. Take the good one, man. Forget the lame one. It's just my opinion. Anyway, another good way to support podcast.

Amazon click through all you do, before you do any of your Amazon shopping, click through the website, jocco's podcast.com. I got a little hint from somebody in the field that said, hey, when you tell people to do Amazon click through, what you should tell them is to tell their significant other to click through. For instance, in my case, my wife buys more things on Amazon than I do. I'm in the game.

I'm supporting the podcast. But what if my wife doesn't know about the click through? Right. She needs to get in the game. Yeah, double the support right there. So don't just you do it. Get your family, get your wife, get your husband. They're not in the game get them in the game

Yeah huh Because a lot of times yeah A lot of times the other spouse Is buying the stuff on Amazon Yeah And they don't know how to support you Right They don't know about that website

Or they're just less compelled Or they forgot Yeah And you don't really technically You don't know if they forgot or not You know If you're clever He heard this from Sam Harris

I knew this already I'm be honest But I heard it to reinforce it Where some people They will click through And before they do this show shopping they get that little URL boom save it to favorites save it to what do you call it bookmarks the tab on the top so boom it's it's there it's it's in the front of your head now it's a good way

to support small action takes what three seconds if that if that yeah and huge support it's like huge reinforcements enforcements actually that's how strong support it is small action big reaction yeah like sodium when you throw it in water anyway subscribe to the podcast If you want iTunes could you help yourself could you Google play that's the best example you can think of Okay, really you don't need to say anything else man you said it we're good over here. Yeah, I can't think of the other one Subscribe if you want iTunes stitch or Google play all these podcasting Providing platforms and you know you get on the list you know you click on my podcast Boom automatic it'll be it'll be the new one updated every week so you can just click play you don't got to do that

search anymore you know when you do that you go on there and you hey let me see this podcast you got a search podcast you got to type it in on your new phone it's actually not that big of a deal but it'd be even less of a big deal if you subscribe you just click on my podcast boom updated automatically right there so subscribe to the podcast that's a good way to support leave a review if you're in the mood chocolate said something extra dope you're like hey i like that leave a review feel free like no i don't want What do you call that muzzle? Like what you put on the dogs to stop them from?

Yeah. We're not trying to muzzle anybody. I was thinking about a muzzle over here for some reasons. See? See? And it's good that you exercise a no muzzle policy. And I think that policy should extend to anyone who's listening and want to support this podcast.

That's what I think. And apparently that's what you think too. And I like that. Obviously. Yeah. So subscribe. Also subscribe to YouTube. Yeah.

We have a YouTube channel. I know. I say it every week. I'm going to say it again. I'm say it this week. we have a YouTube channel. Video version of this podcast is on the YouTube channel, which is cool, obvious, right?

But with strong recommendations from Jocko, from others online, they recommended that you cut out little excerpts, put them on YouTube, even make a playlist, which I did and did. I did all of that stuff. So there's excerpts on there. If you want to listen to three minutes of Jock's opinion

on what gym, what home gym, what equipment makes a good home? home gym you want to listen to that boom it's available right there how should i approach college boom jaco's advice right there so these exes i think they're actually the more i kind of look at them and stuff i think this is a valuable situation you can you can share em easy and people are way more likely to listen to little excerpts and the whole thing if you're trying to get one um you know element of the podcast so yeah youtube subscribe to that good way to support good way to support also jaco is a store called jaco store if you want to wear t-shirts and represent we've got some new ones we got a new one

on there um but regardless the new ones old ones whichever just go in there see if you like one get one good way to support and boom t-shirt also hoodies rash guards which are not my words other people's words they're pretty dope. So, you know, if you're into activity that you like range of motion and you want to represent and you want to support, get a rash guard. Those are good.

I did them for jiu-jitsu originally, but bam, if you surf, if you, you know, do CrossFit, metcons, whatnot, cycling, run marathons. I'm listing all the things that people send me pictures of them doing in their rash guard. So that's what I'm going down this list. Other stuff.

If you do all that, perfect for that too very perfect can something be very perfect it's either perfect or not right yeah I think yeah either way there's women stuff on there

some patches velcro regulation size and color um hoodies as well also maybe the travel mugs are on there maybe not nonetheless I'll talk more about the travel mugs later

next time also oh jocco store.com I think I said that but you know there it is a reminder jocco store.com is the website okay good way to support and support yourself psychological warfare what psychological warfare is I know said it before I'm saying it again psychological warfare is an album with tracks not music tracks jaco tracks and if you are you know I'm starting to not like the word self-improvement

I already don't like that word. Right. Yeah, it kind of like... Never mind starting to. Yeah, you know, it's kind of... I already don't like it. Yeah. And I'm to the point I'm like midway through not liking it.

You know, the phases is like, boom, boom, you hear something. You're like, okay, that's cool and acceptable. Mid phase is like, that's cool, but I don't like how it sounds when I say it. And then the last phase is you don't, you just don't want to hear it. I'm in mid phase. So, but I'm going to use it, you know, for just for the greater good. If you're on a self-improvement path, journey journey is another one of those words that you know you're waking up early you're

doing workouts now consistently you're consistent consistently eating good what about studying and reading and getting smarter too yeah studying reading um you know writing even anything creative you know man when you that and that's the thing that jams people up when they're like hey i should do this i should write my ebook or i should i should do a journal i every day or whatever, you know, and they'll do it one day and then they just won't do it anymore. You know, that's the thing. So anyway, regardless of what you're doing, these tracks, psychological proof, these tracks will help you through this at times of weakness if you're trying to get up in the morning

and it's that day, you know, you had a long night and a hard workout that morning that you're looking forward to or not looking forward to. And you're like, you know what, I'm just going to snooze. Or I'm going to skip the workout. You listen to a certain one or two or three, these tracks, it's Jock and he'll get you through that moment of weakness and you will work out, you will wake

up early. 100% probability with very few, if any, exceptions. Also, on Amazon, while you're clicking through, you can get some Jock white tea, which has some pretty good effects.

I just pulled a couple reviews out. This one here says drinking Jocco's white tea has had the following effects on my life. Getting after it up 55%. Extreme ownership up 92%. And also, by the way, cruising. Oh, dang.

Up 108%. So that's important. Also, deadlift went from 325 to 555. 20 pull-ups instead of sets of five. Solid. That's a good improvement. I don't think anyone would brush that aside. Oh, 20 in a row instead of...

Instead of... It's at a 5. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. There's another person that drank the tea and I thought that this was important because it could happen to other people. Okay, so this person bought some Jocka white tea for myself and my next workout was so aggressive. I got a strongly worded letter from the UN to cease hostilities.

So I don't like seeing UN involvement on our workouts, but if you're not careful, it might happen. And also there's another person. I hadn't talked about front squatting. But you know one person that has been drinking jocco white tea is now front squatting about 2,000 pounds So again just chocko white tea no big deal Double triple quadruple placable plasibo ultimate tested Flawless Numbers yeah so yeah jacquil white tea man tastes good and it is good

Also right now way of the warrior kid it's out We've been waiting for it I've been waiting for it Boom. Thanks everyone for picking it up, getting a copy. If you haven't gotten it yet, get it. You know what? You probably don't, you probably wonder if you need it. Maybe you think you don't need it. So, a little excerpt.

A little excerpt for you. Now this is young Mark, he couldn't do any pull-ups. He couldn't do any pull-ups. He's in fifth grade, couldn't do any pull-ups. Getting made fun of. People are laughing at him because he can't do any pull-ups. his uncle uncle Jake

he stays with him for the summer uncle Jake's in the seal teams uncle Jake gets him on the workout program what you and I commonly refer to as the program gets him on the program

and it's been a few weeks now and uncle Jake realizes that Mark he's been doing negatives and he's been doing assisted pull-ups and he's been doing the pyramids but just hanging on the bar doing all those things getting ready

and uncle Jake realizes now he's ready to do his first pull-up. So he says to him, you know, okay, you're going to get on, you're going to do your first pull-up today. And we'll go back to the book. There you go. He said, giddy up. Get on the bar.

And here's young Mark. I was filled with fear. Every time I had tried in the past, no matter how hard I pulled, I could never get my chin over the bar. Now, with Uncle Jake standing right here, after all the work he has done with me, I just didn't think I'd be able to do it.

it I stood there looking up at the bar well what are you waiting for said Uncle Jake I slowly stepped up on the box and reached up for the bar the bar was cool in my hands and I noticed something that I hadn't thought about my grip in the past my grip always felt like it was gonna slip off the bar my grip felt different now it felt strong I concentrated and then after taking a big breath, I pulled, and I went up, and up, and up. And soon my chin cleared the top of the bar. Yes, I had done it. I let myself down slowly and dropped off the bar. I looked at my uncle. He had a big smile on his face, a big smile. He was happy, and I was even happier.

It felt so good. I looked at Uncle Jake and yelled, yeah. As I curled both my fists towards my shoulder like I'd seen weightlifters doing magazines and I could actually tell for the first time in my life I was starting to get some muscles nothing huge but they were certainly there muscle man mark I shouted as proud as I could be then I saw uncle Jake's smile disappear hold on there muscle man said uncle Jake I didn't know what was wrong but something was I think it's a bit early for a celebration early i just did the first pull-up of my life i think it's the perfect time for a celebration i told uncle jake that's a problem uncle jake said a problem why is a pull-up a problem not the pull-up mark the celebration it is way too early for celebrating but i just did my first

pull-up ever but your goal isn't one pull-up your goal is 10 pull-ups you did one Sure, you have a reason to be happy. One pull-up is better than zero, but it's a long way from 10. No matter what you're doing in life, you can't take your eyes off the long-term goal, especially to celebrate. You can assess. You can try and figure out some lessons learned from what you did right and what you did wrong. You can even do a little celebrating for the small victories.

But don't go overboard. need to keep your head in the game so come over here give me a high five and then get back over there and start doing more work on the pull-up bar this is only the beginning I walked over to uncle Jake who brought his hand up in the air I slapped it hard and he said solid work now get back over there and get after it yes sir I told him just a little another little lesson from uncle Jake you can't get Crocky when you make the little achievement You got to keep your eye on the ball so that's it

Check out that book Order it way the warrior kid It's a kid's book. That's what they're telling me I think we all learn a little something from it I know I learned from writing it You can also pre-order a book called Discipline equals freedom field manual And it's we're dialing it in right now

It's gonna come out October 17th It isn't a workout book It isn't a workout book it isn't a philosophy book it isn't a photography book it isn't a diet book it's got all those things in there but how do you categorize it

where are you gonna put where you're gonna put it in the bookstore where's it gonna be where's it going to be on Amazon you know where it's going to be it's going to be in the get after it category and you know what it's going to be the only book in there so you can order that one

you can also order extreme ownership of course if you want to lead and win you can get that book for you and your team if you need some leadership training live you can contact our company echelon front echelon front is a leadership and management consulting business we teach your company to lead with the same principles of leadership that we learned in combat so if you want to get us in the game with you email info at echelonfront dot com we have the muster zero zero two coming up at the Marriott Grand Marquis, May 4th and 5th, leadership, strategy, tactics.

If you don't make that one, guess what? That's okay. Texas, July 13th and 14th at the Omni Barton Creek Resort and Spa. I'm going to tell you right up, straight up. Don't come for the spa. I'm not going to see the spa. If you can't make the one in Texas, San Diego, September 14th and 15th. Follow on operation

We've been there once. We're coming back again Come get your leadership game on improve yourself as a leader and as a person We'll see you at one of those musters look forward to it when we're not at the musters We can be found on the interwebs On Twitter on Instagram And we gonna be here laxing on that face That easy book Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocka Willink.

And thanks to everybody for listening and for supporting and for asking these questions and for helping us do what we do to the military personnel overseas. All of you are deepest thanks and appreciation for your service and sacrifice. Stay safe. The best way to stay safe is to stay aggressive. to the police, firefighters, EMTs, first responders. Thanks for staying sharp, training hard, and standing watch for us here at home.

And to everybody listening, life isn't easy. And it's not supposed to be, sure, there's victories and there's triumphs, but there's also losses and setbacks. But those losses and setbacks only win if you let them. So don't let them. Don't let them win.

No matter what happens, keep going. Keep getting after it. So until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.