Jocko Podcast - 79: How To Get People to Take Action. When to Skip the Chain of Command. Sacrificing Short-Term Health to Reach a Goal. What "GOOD" Can Come From a Sick Child?

Episode Date: June 13, 2017

0:00:00 - Opening 0:00:42 - How to Deploy Decentralized Command when your team changes very frequently. 0:07:28 - How to, and When to Skip the Chain of Command and go above your direct superior's head. 0:34:20 - How Important is Longevity (a Long Life)? 0:43:20 - Should you sacrifice Health in the short term to reach work objectives? 1:00:42 - How to deal with family members with anger issues. 1:13:33 - How to get people to take action when they over-analyze and over-think. 1:18:41 - Handling a team member who takes "ALL" the responsibility but has sub-standard work.  1:39:40 - What "GOOD" can come from a sick child?? 1:55:27 - Support, Cool Onnit, JockoStore stuff, with Jocko White Tea and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), (Jocko's Kids' Book) Way of the Warrior Kid, and The Muster 003.  2:17:55 - Closing Gratitude.  Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 79 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink Good evening echo good evening and it has been a little while since we were able to hammer out some Q&A Sure questions from the interwebs and so here we are Number 79. Let's answer some questions from the interwebs. What do you got? Cool go First question. Oh, wait. Should we spend a bunch of time with a bunch of fluff and talk about nonsense or should we get to the questions? I say we get to the question.

What about 27 minutes worth of advertisements? Let's get to the questions. Rock and roll. I am a vascular surgeon training residence. How do you apply decentralized command when your team changes every one to three months? Yeah, solid question. And with something like that, what we need to do is we need to get a standard operating procedure in place with clear documentation some kind of a qualification and approval process and then a

monitoring system in place right so this this the reason I can kind of the reason that's pretty easy transition for me to make mentally is because we would have to do this kind of thing sometimes in the SEAL teams when you get for instance you're overseas on deployment in a war zone and you get some guys that show up to work halfway through the deployment or two months into deployment or three weeks before deployment ends you get some guys that show up their seals right so they they understand the fundamental concepts but you haven't worked with them specifically before they haven't worked with the platoon before they don't know the area of operations that you're in

specifically they don't know what kind of mission specifically you're conducting and where the intel is coming from basically they don't know anything other than the fundamental knowledge of being a seal but as far as that particular job goes they don't know too much so what you have to is you have to run them through a bunch of familiarization stuff very quickly about the gun trucks and how your Humvees are set up you got to make sure they can get on a 50 cow on a Mark 48 and a Mark 19 and understand our crew served weapons and how we operate them because our crew served weapons by the way a lot of times we most of the time operate our crew served weapons alone so they got to make sure they can do this Humvees right a lot of the older guys and the sealed teams before the war started they wouldn't know how to operate a Humvee so you had to make sure they can do this. They knew how to do that. They had to understand the mission why we were doing the mission what was important about it. What was the commander's intent? They had to know the rules of engagement Because the military will take a guy that lands in country. They'll give him like a 30 minute brief to welcome to in country and 30 seconds of it'll be a rules of engagement brief and they won't really understand it So you got to make sure they understand that you got to when's the last time they did med training medical training? When's the last time I did that has it been like 12 years since they put on a tourniquet? Okay, not good we got to get him familiarized on that how they're going to stop the bleeding the different I threats that are out there because the ID threats change all the time what kind of trigger

mechanisms are being used and what kind of identifying marks are for IED so there's all this stuff the list goes on and on and so you have to develop some kind of a standard operating procedure hey when a guy shows up this is what we need to do with them boom they need to go through this this this this this little checklist you put together and then if the person's a leader maybe you got to go and do a couple left seat right seat rides with them so does that make Do other people use that terminology? Left seat, right seat? Not that I know.

Okay, so if I was the platoon commander and you were coming in to take over for me, we would plan a mission together and I would be in charge of the mission. So I'd be in the driver's seat. Oh, like a pilot, co-pilot. Yeah, and you'd be in the next seat. You'd be watching and you'd be in the passenger seat

and I would be running everything. And then maybe we do that a couple times and you're just watching me. And then we switch seats, you get in the driver's seats, but I'm still there watching and telling you to move a little left to move a little right and then eventually you got it and then I'm going to leave go

yeah so maybe if the person's a leader you got to do two or three or four ops or whatever to get them a good turnover so now in all these situations or if it's not a full on turnover because that you're going to walk away from but if it's just a you've got some other group small entity or people that are coming in you're not going to be able to give them that full hundred percent decentralized command right you're still going to have to keep a little bit more watch on them because you're not going to build up the full level of trusts in one to three months that just not possible so there will be a little bit of limitations but you can definitely you can definitely move pretty far down the path and one other thing that's going to help

like said document and that's really smart to put together a document with very clear roles and responsibilities and expectation and then not just give them the document and say hey read this letter no no you sit down and go over every single thing with them so what you're trying to do is you're trying to condense this timeline of building trust into the shortest possible time and one of the ways you do that is by condensing everything into a simple clear concise format written format go through talk it with them so they understand it and get to do it very clearly like when i was in task unit bruiser i didn't lay anything like that out for the platoon commanders for lay from the Multiple platoon commander and say here's the rules and I did that over a long period of time you know over a year workup now that now within a few months they kind of knew what the deal was

But if I would have if that would have been my normal job and I would have been getting a new platoon commanders every three months Every time they came in I'll be like are you new platoon commanders this is what a platoon commander does this is the rules rules rules and Responsibilities this is the Expectations that I have for you this is when you call me this is when you make a decision on your own lay all that stuff perfectly clear and that way I could more quickly develop a sense of decentralized command now again it's not gonna be be full decentralized command you're not gonna just let somebody run with it they've only been you for three months and you know I don't know I don't know what the timeline is to for a vascular surgeon to get total trust in their subordinate

vascular surgeons or their subordinate team members but I'm sure it takes longer than one to three months so how much can you condense the timeline what can you do to condense it once you get it condensed as much as you can You're still going to have to do a little bit more monitoring than you would normally do But it is still going to be beneficial it's going to be beneficial for them and it will be beneficial for you To operate as much as you can in the decentralized Methodology so when you say condense the timeline that's for the procedure No, it's condensed the timeline to build trust

Oh, actually Okay, so I want to decentralized command is about trust right? Yeah, if I trust you and you trust me it goes up and out If I'm in charge and I trust you, that means you're going to go out and you know what to do. And when you're out there, you know you trust that I am going to cover for you and I'm going to trust the decisions that you make. So decentralized command is about trust. In order to have trust, we have to have understanding. And in order to understand things, we have to work together. So what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to condense the timeline that it takes us to build trust.

And how do I do that? I just am very direct and lay things out in a very simple, clear, concise format so that you can understand it. Gotcha. Very quickly. That's my goal. Next question. When and how is the right way to skip the chain of command when you feel like your direct superior is a part of the problem. Big one. Big one because this is very, very problematic.

And skipping the chain of command is a last resort. It is a last resort. Why is it a last resort? Because when you skip the chain of command, you're breaking the trust I just talked about, you're breaking it. The relationship that you've been building, you're damaging it. It's not good. Sometimes it's unsalvageable, by the way. Sometimes when you skip the chain of command, you will never be able to recover from that.

Now, of course, if there's something that your immediate superior is doing, that's illegal or immoral or unethical, if that's the case, then it's actually your duty to go above them in the chain of command. Now, do you still first report it to them and say, hey, what you did is wrong? We're not going to do that. Yes, you should tell them first unless it's going to, you know, cause you to get in some horrible situation. Now, this is an interesting thing that I thought about. Let's say you and I are working together. Sure. And, and you're my boss.

And let's say you're doing something that's immoral, illegal, unethical, right? And I watch you do it. And I see you leaning towards it. I'm like, oh, I think he's going to do something. that's illegal right here and I don't say anything and then I watch you do it and then I run up the chain of command report you and bust you right You got to be careful with that and and and I think when you work for someone or when someone works for you you need to lay it right out of the gate like hey this is where I stand like I'm not gonna cover for you if you do some stupid illegal things You don't wait for for them to do it and then drop the hammer on them maybe on being overly fair and maybe we

should be all out to get people that are you know doing something that they shouldn't be doing part of the problem yeah I actually I believe that's my belief is when I when I meet you and I say hey what's going on and you make a little crack you know you make a little joke you know you say well you know it's not like the it's not like the it's not like the the customers can really see that money. You know, let's say you're going to skim money from somebody. Right, right, right. Yeah, and you make a little joke like that.

You know, and what you're doing is testing the waters with me, right? You're testing my ethical moral. I'd be like, yeah, there's no way they would ever know. And besides, we pretty much work for it anyways, right? Right. You're going to see if you're going to get that reaction with it. So, you know, we just, you know, sometimes we've got a little charge a little extra on that install. Right.

Maybe we're, maybe we're some kind of installers at a house. And you go, yeah, you know, I usually, you know, throw a little upchurch. charge on here they never know if that's type of wall whatever right yeah yeah you throw that test at me it's my duty if I'm the type of person that's going to report you for skimming money from the customers then I should tell you like hey man that's not cool now yeah no those customers they you know here's my view is those customers that we're out there trying to do this install for they had to work hard for that money and I don't want to be taking it from them now you kind of know yeah you better not be doing that in front of me yeah as opposed to

To me smiling and going along with your joke and then three months later I report you know I had a turnover report to the boss man. Yeah So I don't think that's very ethical evil Yeah, it's kind of like to mislead you. It's a little bit of a backstack. Yeah Yeah, yeah Now are there cases of course where somebody's doing something that's just Outrageously unethical and you didn't know about it or something? You pretty much know though you can tell when people are doing shady things. Yeah, you so so I think that that is something

Okay, so let me put it. Let me close this thought or at least Make a point of this thought my point of this thought is it's the same thing that happens a lot where people don't like to have hard conversations So it's an easy conversation when you say you know those customers never know where their money goes and it's only 12 bucks of thing and It's no big deal the easiest thing for me to do is to smile and say. Yeah, that's the easy and and and that's not that big of a deal and and that's not that big of a deal deal right it gets so much harder the further we go down that road it gets harder and harder and harder because then you start saying hey you know it's only you know we've been skimming like 12 bucks guess what they never noticed this other charge either and

I can get him for sixty two dollars mm yeah and then all of a sudden it's a harder conversation so have the hard conversation earlier it'll make it easier for you so that being said now how Do we escalate above you in the chain of command? First of all, my goal is to not escalate above you in the chain of command. My goal is to actually raise the situation to you and bring it up to you and say, hey, Echo, you know, the way we've been doing this job, you know, I think we should do it a different way. I think there's a better way to treat the customer, whatever, whatever the thing is, better

way to attack this target, whatever the thing is. And I'm going to have that conversation with you, like two, three, four, five times to try and get you to listen to me. Now, if the conversation doesn't work, I'm going to escalate that. It's related even further. You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna actually do a little write up. I'm gonna write a point paper I'm gonna say echo I was listening thinking about what we're doing How we're hitting this target or how we're loading out our guys or whatever And I'm gonna write you a point paper and I'm gonna I'm gonna lay out for you to lay out what my plan is what the cost benefits are

And make that very clear to you So that way I'm giving you every ample opportunity to listen to what I'm saying right and I'm probably even gonna say hey, maybe we're we should run this by, you know, the boss to see what they think. Because if you just keep disagreeing with me and I say, you know, can I, you mind if I bring this to the boss and see what he thinks? Now, what are you going to say to that?

Most the immediates are not going to be happy. But I'm giving you a heads up, right? Because I'm just trying to play open. And it kind of, doesn't it kind of make them reflect too? Or it's like, oh, hey, I'm going to, you know, bring somebody in there. What are they going to say, no, don't bring that to the boss? It's kind of like, oh, it makes it real overt

that they're not doing correct. Yeah. So, yeah, you say, and you might get a boss that goes, yeah, bring it to him. He's going to say the same thing I'm telling you. And then you go, well, maybe I'm wrong. Yeah, yeah. Maybe I'm wrong about this procedure. Or maybe I'm wrong about how we're going to attack this target.

But it is, and also this is a hard conversation to have. It's a hard conversation to say someone, man, can we just bring this to the boss? And again, I'm not saying, you say, hey, I'm going to bring this to the boss. Right. No, you say, hey, would you mind if I got his opinion? Would you mind if I see what she said about this and that way we're We're not saying I'm going to the boss. I'm going above your head. You can't stop me. No, that's not what I'm talking about So

There's that the other thing that you can so that's that's sort of a direct approach with your Immediate boss which starts by the way with an indirect approach of being like hey echo You know, I was thinking about the way we're hitting these targets wouldn't it be smart? Maybe if we hit him from over here. Do you think that would work and now we're just open up the conversation so we've done that? I've done that and we've done that and I can also go indirect with your boss, right? So your direct boss, who's now too up above me and the chain of command, I can go indirect with him at the water fountain. Right? Yeah.

Hey, oh, yeah, thanks, boss. Yeah, everything's going great. Yeah, doing a great job. Yeah, I'm on Echo's team. Yeah, yeah, no, it's really good. It's good. It's a tough mission. But, you know, we're always exploring new ways to do it.

You know, we're looking at some other options. I was thinking of another way to hit those targets, too, kind of like coming in from this direction. Oh, that's all I did was just. drop little plant a little seed you know have that conversation come up and I'm just just gonna that's what I'm gonna do plant the little seeds and try and get them to maybe say oh that sounds like a really good idea what did echo think of that I I you know actually I haven't talked to echo about it in full detail but I will now I go back hey man that boss asked me

about this and he was mentioning you know I mentioned this other way of doing it and he thought it might be a good idea and I just want to give you heads up in case he says anything I didn't really have a chance you know whatever so we're just we're playing the game a little bit that's good right that that that that line I just want to give you the heads up I feel like that's like real good when someone says it is however it also gets uh it's also a way of saying hey I ratted you out I radded you out I raddage you out depending on what it's followed with it's like hey I just want to give you heads up the boss you know asked me about this and I didn't know how to respond so I said this and he

might come and talk to you just I just wanted to give you heads up right that's good That's different. Just to give you a heads up, I talked to the boss earlier today. I told him what your deal is. Something like that. That's not going to go good for you. So, yeah, there's all kinds of shades of gray there as well. And, you know, I worked for a while.

I was the Admiral's aide. And so I worked for a really great guy, great Admiral, who I had a really good relationship with, you know. And if I needed something, he was going to give it to me. And so when I was a task unit commander, Which is what job I went to immediately when I got done working for the admiral. I literally had a direct line to the admiral because I had his cell phone number. I had his office number.

And if I wanted to call him, he wanted to talk to me because we were friends. But that doesn't mean that I went to him and did all kinds of, you know, I didn't do that. No, I never took advantage of that at all and was always professional. but there is this one little story where as odd as this might sound we're getting ready to go on deployment and we needed a what's called a large format color printer yeah and it prints out big pieces of paper large format and you need it because you need to make battle maps and you need a good one because when you got on an operation every single guy in the platoon has a map so you could have You might need eight, 10, 12, 15, 30.

You might need 30 color laminated maps to go out on the mission. And for whatever reason, I think we had one. It was kind of crappy. And the boss, the admiral, you know, I talked to him before I was going on deployment. I don't know if he called me or I ran into him or whatever. And he's the admiral in charge of everything. And he's just, you know, getting a feel for what's going on. And he says, you know, hey, do everything you need for deployment?

Because he knew I was leaving in a couple days or a couple weeks. And I said, yeah, you know, sir, we're good to go. You know, right now, believe it or not, I'm just waiting on a printer. You've got to get one of those large format printers for battle maps. But other than that, we're rocking and rolling. And like that afternoon, I got back to my office and the Commodore. So now it's two bosses above my immediate boss at the SEAL team and one guy below the Admiral. You know, I had like a message for me.

He was like, hey. And luckily, I was friends with him. He goes, hey, I guess you need a printer. Let me know what kind. And he's like, thanks for the heads up. And I was like, hey, sorry, sir. I just saw him in the quickie mart or whatever. But yeah, you know, you got to, you got to, you don't want to abuse that stuff at all.

And you got to be smart about it. And it's always is. I'm telling you, it's always, it's not good to skip the chain of command. It really isn't. It's not going to, it generally is not going to benefit you. It generally going to put you in a bad situation. It's gonna give you less leverage with your immediate boss because if I went above the chain command on you Even with you get redirected by our boss you are pissed

Yeah, and you're gonna you're gonna sabotage Yeah, it's like it's like it's like really it's a version of going behind someone's back. Oh for sure it is Yeah, and it almost even feels like even if you tell them it feels like all you're going above my head Yeah, it's a really it's a really it's a tough one you gotta use caution with that one and also I'll tell you what else it is

it's an easy it appears to be the easy way out like if you're not listening to me I'm just gonna go above the chain of command instead of me influencing you explaining to you writing point papers to you building a relationship with you so that you trust me instead of doing all those things that take time

and effort intact I'm just gonna skip the chain and command and tell your boss that's that's another negative about It's a cop out. You shouldn't need to do it. I can't. Like that printer story I just told, like, other than that, of me going above the chain of command, and that was almost a comical thing.

Like I said, I was friends with the Commodore, too, who always took great care of me and was laughing when he left the message. I go, thanks for the heads up. You know, he wasn't mad when he said that. He was, you know, he was laughing because here I was getting ready to deploy to Iraq, and what I want is a printer. That's what we need, which can tell you how dialed in we were and how much great gear we had, because the only.

The only thing that was left that we needed was a printer. You know, that's where I was at. I got all the, everything we needed, but I needed a printer. So you went above his head and I get it, you know, for the printer. But you got to, you know, other than that, it's really hard for me to think of other times in my naval career where I went above someone in the chain of command. It just didn't happen, you know, I'm going to take the time to build a relationship with my immediate boss and they're going to do what I want them to do. Yeah. They're going to give me what I want them to give me.

They're going to support me the way I need to get supported. That's what I'm going to do. Yeah. up the chain of command. Skipping the chain of command isn't really leadership. Yeah. So try not to do it. Kind of like when you're a kid and you got to deal with your older brother or something, but instead of dealing

with them, you're going tattel on them, something like that. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's the same similar thing. Not that my little brother tattled on me ever in his life. Yeah. Interesting how you, and it seems like this is a common theme too, how you're like you want to try

the most and the best you can to deal with it yourself. Like the most for sure like from the beginning own it I mean just like how you were saying how like if you got to fire someone you know where you want to get to the point where deal with it in the beginning yeah like you can't like just let them do the wrong thing you be like yeah that's cool let them do it for years and then be like you know what you're fired because of all these wrong things and you didn't even bring it and think about this too like on the unethical things you you might be again I'm gonna I'm gonna walk a fine line here but you might not recognize you might not

Recognize that what you're doing is unethical you might be like hey jaco you know, you know, I just I always hit everyone with this little extra twelve dollar charge You know no big deal. No one ever notices it and you know we're working hard and you might just hey man it gives you Food for your kids and you're working on a bunch of rich people's houses so they can afford 12 bucks And it's not that big of a deal to you and maybe somebody that you started working for did the same thing and that's kind of just the standard operating procedure Yeah Whereas I was like man you know what that's not good you know that's actually it might not seem like a big deal, but you're taking money. You know, you know, that puts money on your table, gives, feed your kids, it's taking

money off their table. Yeah. You know, and whether they're rich or not, money's money. Yeah. I don't feel, I don't feel like we should be doing it. You know what I mean? I can might awaken you and get your ethics back on track and you might be a good dude. Because just because someone was skimming some money doesn't mean they're a horrible

person, right? It means that they went down the wrong path. Just because someone goes down the wrong path doesn't mean they can come back, they doesn't mean they cannot come back to the right path man if I was if I was you know executed every time I did something that was stupid or or bad or you know I shouldn't have done I would died a thousand deaths by now right we grow up and we learn these things we become better people but we only become better people we only learn these things if somebody teaches them to us yeah now we can

learn the hard way which is you know you all the sudden someone looks at you and goes wait what's this charge for 12 bucks and then they pull up all your receipts for the last five years you've been working here and then they realize you've stolen money from the company and sold money from these customers and they're going to prosecute you because stealing over X amount of dollars is a felony you know what I mean so then you learn your lesson but that's not the lesson we want to learn so having those tough conversations like you're talking about having them up front and whether it's your right whether it's counseling somebody whether it's dealing with you know my boss who I want to tell like hey

I think there's a better way to do this any of those the earlier you do them the easier they are to have And the longer you wait to do them, the harder they get. Yeah. So. Also, too, it's just an overall help. Like, I don't know. It's hard to not draw the analogy, not the analogy, but the comparison between, like, your boss and subordinates type situation and parenting kids. You know, like, for sure.

Just like are you saying, sometimes people don't know necessarily that it's unethical or they don't know it's that unethical or something like that. That's, that's, I mean, in my situation with kids, like, they don't. don't know. Essentially, they don't know better, you know. Like, I don't know. You take a permanent pen and you draw all over the walls. You're four or five years old. And you're like, yeah, sure, I've been drawing on paper this whole time. So there's no reason for me to think, sure, I should draw on the walls, but there's really nothing to tell me not to. So they do it. And then they go get like beat or something like that or just yelled at or something, some, some punishment, straight up punishment instead of, you know, okay, you didn't know that. You have to know this.

You know, it's like that kind of stuff. I got to tell a story. We were, I was going through officer candidate school. And there's a manual and you're going through officer candidate school. I can't remember what it is. But it's all the rules of officer candidate school. Everything you, this is how your uniform is supposed to be. This is the way your locker is supposed to be.

These are the way you stand in line at the Chow Hall. All the, every single rule is in this book. And I forget what it's called. So you live by the code of this book. And it's very specific rules. And there was a kid who was going through officer candidate school with us. and he was from another country he'd been raised another country and became an American citizen but he was from another country and grew up in a really poor you know a really poor kid so good

for him I mean he had achieved an incredible amount finishing college going to officer candidate school was awesome but he had some habits from growing up in the third world that were a little bit different for you know for Americans and one of the things that he would do is he would urinate in the shower and and not just while he was taking a shower but when you come back from a class or something you know you'd everyone have to go to the bathroom at the same time and so you know guys would go in and fill up the urinals and then there's nowhere to piss so what are you going to do oh well he would just go in the shower and it's a big open shower you just go in there and piss right in the drain like it was nothing toilet shower

yeah toilet shower whatever and one of the american kids uh and i'm calling kids these guys were all you know actually we had a but some of them were new kids fresh out of college the kid the the kid that was urinating in the shower was fresh out of college and one of the older guys who was like me was a prior enlisted guy he came to me and he said hey man this kid's urinating in the shower like all the time and I said I said okay well you know run the water he's like brand I gotta get the he's like I've he's like you know my squad's in charge of cleaning the showers and so these are my guys on there on the ground cleaning up his

piss it ain't cool and I was like all right cool I'll talk to him so I went and I said hey man I said hey you know officer candidate whatever can I can I talk with you for a second he goes yeah and he comes in my room and I said hey man you you um you know you're you're you're you're pissing in the shower just wait for a toilet and he looked to me like I was telling him that he shouldn't breathe air right he was like well why and I said I said well no because you know you're you're you're you're pissing where everyone walks around and and he goes yeah but the water to drain it's all pipes and he goes and I said no it's it's not just just don't do

And he goes, it's not in the rule book. It was what he said to me. And I go, what do you mean? He goes, and he named the manual. He goes, it doesn't say in there that you can't piss in the showers. I was like, well, it doesn't say you get pissed on my floor either or in my bed, but I don't want you doing that. But it was interesting. My point is that his viewpoint was like this was totally normal.

And he was a great kid and a hard worker. But for him, he was just like, what are you talking about? Why wouldn't I piss in the shower? All the pissers are taken. I'm going to go pissing the shower. Well, next question. Let's move on. I got work to do.

And so I had to explain to him, hey, man, listen, it's a little different. And people that are cleaning the showers don't want to be down on their hands and knees in your piss. Yeah. So, and he said, okay. And he, he listened to me. And, but I could see that he listened to me, but he didn't 100% agree with me. Right. Right.

He was like, okay. Like, if you say so. Yeah, he kind of did that, you know? Yeah. And it was one of those where I, I'm trying to explain to him the why, but it just, it's like you're saying. Like, he literally didn't understand that. That was not acceptable from a hygienic point, hygienic, is that right? Hygienic, hygienic from a hygienic point from a, you know, a moral or a morale point of the team that's in there cleaning up.

So that was, that was good times. You never seen that Seinfeld, you watch Seinfeld ever? You know what that is, right? I know it's a TV show, but negative. That's what they talk about. He gets caught. One of the guys gets caught, taking a league. in the shower at the gym you know you go to the gym and take a shower and then it's like you

know they catch you and they're ostracized basically I think they even took his matter I don't know but he's like yeah you believe this there whatever you know they're mad at me for you know pissing in the shower at the gym and he's like he's like why why are you confused that they're mad at you kind of thing and he's like it's all pipes you know he's trying to defend it and you can kind of see where in a small teeny tiny way if you don't think about it yeah Like why not it's going down the drain you're not pissing on the on the people Hey I was deployed on a ship And I was an officer as an ensign. So I just moved up from the from the troop birthing where I used to be with the enlisted Swine so we used to proudly call ourselves

So all of a sudden I was up in the in the in the officer area in the what they call those areas? The officer country They have little signs officer country, you know no enlisted allowed Elitist yeah totally lead us so I'm in there and I'm living with a we actually had four other seals the seal officers in this room if one of the seal officers it was a sink in the room but no bathroom so you just had a sink you brush your teeth shave whatever but if you want to go the bathroom me to go down the hallway where the showers and the pissers were and so one night I'm you know I'm like get stirred awake by some

noise and I see one of the my fellow officers is pissing in the sink right in the sink and you know I was like hey man what are you doing He's like, I'm not walking all the way down to the bathroom. I was like, yeah, actually, yes, you are. That's where I brush my teeth, Holmes. And he was the same way. He was kind of surprised, like, what's wrong with you? It's just piss and it's the same pipes.

But I was like, no, do me a favor. Just walk on down there. What if he urinated in the sink regularly? But every single time when he was done, he scrubbed the sink with, like, Lysaw and stuff. Bro. It's all psychological, huh? Well, it's not just psychological, but that doesn't even make it worth it.

Now, you might as well walk down there. Right. I dig it, but like, what if that was just his thing? I mean, well, how would you feel about it? Don't piss in my sink. Yeah, right? It's like a, it's like a, what do you call? Like a customary almost for reasons, of course.

Yeah, the reason is don't piss in my sink. No, you gotta think about it. Actually in college, we played football in a way to like a nice facility too at U.H. But the showers were, like guys would do it all the time. And, but the showers were shaped different where, like let's say you're facing the shower right or you're facing the wall at the bottom of the wall was like a gutter trench yeah trench yeah so it went down so if you did and one guy's would it would go you weren't ever standing in it you know so if you're standing in it that's like obvious you know

but but guys would do it and when i first thought i was like dang you're just openly doing it like one of this i actually mentioned this name is before i'm not going to mention because it's pissing the shower but he's like talking to me while he's pissing in the shower almost like it was a straight up toilet it was understood he's like yeah all talking to me and I'm like all right that's how so again it's more like the ethics of the like the culture almost it's what it seemed like yeah what it seems like to me is don't piss in my sink I agree oh yeah the sink is different is a totally different ballgame yeah shower okay understood right like you said it goes down the drain it's there's water flow all over it.

Yeah. You're washing off anyway. You're washing off. There's soap coming over it. But you know what? I got a good idea. Just as a general overall rule, pissing the toilet.

Yeah. Yeah, try the toilet. Yeah. Do that one. Yeah. The same way you're probably not going to brush your teeth in the toilet. Yeah, you wouldn't do that. That's what the sink is for.

Now, if you want to brush your teeth in the toilet, have at it. I won't be mad at you. I'll be mad at you, bro. I don't know if I can hang out with you as much or whatever. But, yeah, I understand. It makes sense. And we're talking about pissing in toilets from talking about skipping the chain of command. Oh, yeah, that's right, because the guy at OCS, officer candidate school.

Yeah, you got to pissing in the shower. You got to let them know. You got to have the hard conversations. I wonder what ever happened to him. He was a hard work. Where were we from? Somewhere like Vietnam or Laos or something. Maybe Thailand.

Yeah. Some Asian country, Southeast Asian country. Hard worker. That's smart. Yeah, I would say My opinion about taking a leak in the shower is you shouldn't do it But if like this guy who's like oh that's normal That doesn't like totally surprised me though

Yeah, no it doesn't surprise me But makes sense that guys didn't like it though for sure Next question And and don't skip the chain of command if you can avoid it Yeah, by the way. Yeah, don't do that either Yeah, that's a yeah Anything going behind someone's back it just fit it just like how you said it's like sometimes you can't repair that yeah it's hard to repair oh man hard to repair

hello how do you rank your longevity in your priorities longevity this is talking about staying alive for as long as possible and of course i mean i want to live oh like how do you yeah yeah how do i personally that's the way it was the question the question is actually directed at me jocco willing question for the podcast how do you rank your longevity in your priorities longevity being how long you're going to live for and for me I mean obviously longevity has some level of importance I do want to live for a little while longer but and I think that generally my lifestyle and my focus on health and fitness in a broad way align with living for a little longer

so you know working out and all that stuff is good but There's also an extreme and I don't know if you know this I don't know how much you know about this or if you've ever read about it But there's an extreme side of longevity Of trying if you if your goal in life was to live as long as possible There's an extreme version of that do you know about this? I don't know how so well one of the biggest things is You you you do a calorie restriction massive calorie restriction yeah you're talking like massive calorie restriction and that's what one of them you and and believe it or not you do extremely low levels of physical activity yeah right you you basically if your goal was to live as long as possible you would

want to live they basically in a bubble yeah and do nothing yeah but but eat very little and and just lay there no jiu jitzu did no surfing no lifting heavy weights none of that stuff Now, when you're in that mode of longevity, pure longevity, you are not prepared for anything in the actual world, right? Yeah. Because your heart can only beat so many times, and the less you use it, the longer it's going to be lasting. But, and I'm sure I have that not quite right. But the problem is if you're not in good shape, when you get surprised, your heart can't handle it.

That's the kind of people that have heart attacks. Their heart can't handle all this madness when it comes. So I'm not going there. It's not worth it for me to for me to live my whole life as a sedentary person Half starved and completely unprepared for anything to happen to me outside of my bubble is not happening. I'm not gonna live that way So where does it rank in my priorities? I think it's it sure it's an important thing, but I think my general Lifestyle aligns with it enough that I don't think about it as much and I think overall living life is more important to me than just living. Yeah.

So, got to live life. What if magic, like a magic wizard guy says, I'm the, you know, gatekeeper of your whole life, whatever,

your life and death situation. He's a grim reaper. That's who it was. And he said, I know when you're going to die, you know, you can't help it. I just know the future,

whatever. I will give you 20, extra years right now you're you know 40 something years old the day you're gonna die whenever that is I can't tell you that maybe 90 maybe 80 whatever but I'll give you 20 more years of fully functional life but you gotta stop doing jiu jitsu right now you can never do it ever again I'd probably choke him out next question but otherwise you'd be just as functional you can lift you can surf you can you can you know you can get after it in any Every other way, just no jiu-jitsu.

No martial arts in any way. Oh, you know what? I would double-leg him. And then I would pass his guard, and then I would choke him. Dang. Yeah. Yeah, makes sense. And I'd take his sickle, and I'd free the world.

So a jihitsu-free life is not life. That's what you're saying. I think the minute you start restraining yourself from doing things that you want to do, you would need to take serious considerations in what you're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also think that hypothetical questions like that are completely ridiculous.

No, they're not. They're mental exercises. So my, that's why. And then in that case, I will stay with my first answer. Yeah, I agree. If the Grim Reaper came to me and maybe an offer,

I would double leg him, I would take him down, and I would choke him out. There you go. I might kill him. Yeah, that's true. I might kill death. Yeah, there you go.

See, boom. And you can't do that. without you just do so as far as the double egg and choking someone up so back to your um how you say you know how the longevity yeah thing i did know about that actually yeah and it and it makes sense because that's a lot of things like if you want to be the safest you possibly can in life right same thing you're just going to live in a bubble with no threats of any disease sterilized bubble no murders no car accidents no nothing never drive never do anything the same thing right You'll be so safe.

You'll be the safest person in the world, really. Yeah. But as far as quote unquote living life, you know, you go one day out in the wild. Oh, you're dead. Same thing. Like, if you restrict all your calories, no hard physical activity, no sun, you know, all this stuff. The moment you go to everyday life, which is physical in some, it's less than before, but still physical. There's sun.

When you go out there, oh, you're dead. Oh, that's right. So it's like all or nothing. Yeah. Take vitamin D pills. Yeah. The other thing is with calorie restriction is I think, and, you know, I'm reading about this stuff all the time and, but you can get a lot of those benefits by doing some intermittent fast. Yeah, testing for sure.

Yeah. And you will feel good on the intermittent fasting. Yeah. 24, 48, 72 hours. That's the most I've done. So, you know, and maybe I'll do some more in the future. Tim Ferriss did like seven days. Dang.

Actually, you know, I don't know, man. Yeah. Yeah, but and see and that's that almost goes into a whole honestly when I did 72 hours the last time I did it Same thing I've done it a couple times now every time I feel fine yeah, I don't feel any of this stuff that people talk about Yeah, well yeah so I mean it's this is almost I feel hungry for a little while Yeah, but I do I wasn't like oh God Right I wasn't gonna die no yeah you were no But you're talking about a whole different thing now what people are gonna say people are gonna ask on this

the interwebs to talk more about intermittent fasting no don't ask me there's like actual research out there go and Google it look up in a mass minute fasting and read about it don't ask me I'm the wrong person to ask yeah ask smart people yeah and again that the intermittent like if you're talking about like just preempted like 10,000 questions on Twitter because it's true don't ask me Google it and look at these really good research paper there's all kinds of stuff coming out about it right now now what's weird about the internet and science in general is in you know there's a one article that says it's great you can find two more articles that say it's horrible and you can

find three more articles so you can always counter everything yeah I mean although the split hairs but that's not necessarily about science in general it's more about a specific person's viewpoint well yeah based on what they've got arrived at for sure um and especially with diet in health, it's so, it's so ambiguous and so adaptable and stuff like that. So, but if you're talking about fasting, that's, that's, you're talking about something different. Like, you know, people fast for a specific reason. Yeah. Or even that kind of a general reason, but it's like, fasting alone isn't going to make you achieve whatever it is you're doing, you know, it's a complete, just like lifting, like with lifting, you need nutrition, you need rest, you need all the stuff for a specific

results. And then there's all kinds of different lifting, you know, so you can't just be like, oh, yeah, I want bigger muscles. So I'm just, you know, just. gonna lift that's it no nutrition I'm not gonna eat at all or no rest I'm not gonna rest at all so the point there is when you go trying to live as long as you possibly can it's like you have to like that has to be the objective just to live everything else is everything else is out the window so you yeah I don't I agree with you I don't think that that's living necessarily I don't think there's too many people that are just on the full on longevity gig Yeah, but there are some yeah I know I know one not gonna mention his name

Jack I guess it'd be your little secret next question similar question Yeah Jucco prioritize and execute is it wrong to sacrifice health in short term to accomplish work objectives and how would you make up the time lost So yeah absolutely sometimes you have to sacrifice workouts for health and health for work objectives there's no doubt that's life Yeah and work in many respects is life and that's kind of another topic But try and love what you're doing try and enjoy your job if you don't because if you enjoy your job Then work is life is an okay thing if you hate your job then work is life is not a is not a good situation to be in So try and get into things and do something that you enjoy doing and if you don't enjoy it You know find some kind of an exit strategy but

that's another topic going back to this topic is it okay or is it wrong to sacrifice your health in the short term to accomplish long-term work objectives and yeah even in the seal teams we did that all kinds of times a lot whether it was in training or for a mission where our priority or our mission or our training takes priority over workouts and over eating healthy and over everything so there's times where that you're you're a hundred percent focused on some kind of mission and that's what you're gonna that's what you're gonna do and That's okay. That's what we did in the seal teams and that's what everyone does and it's and when you get done with that how do you make up for lost time? You do some hard workouts and maybe you go eat super clean or you fast for a little while or whatever it is that gets you back on track you just get yourself back on track

What you have to watch out for is a pattern A long-term pattern where work takes precedent over health for multiple weeks right multiple weeks and months right if it's if you're talking about months we're in a bad situation like if you go week two weeks where you just were crazy and work it was crazy and you you you know you know your health took a little to went down a couple notches on the priority and a couple weeks goes by and you cook for that I'm glad I'm got through that and the the the hard season's over or the whatever the you know you know people in the finance world and tax season they're just busting their ass for two three four straight

weeks it's really hard it's understandable and you know retail people around Christmas time there you know everyone's got through little sick little sick little things real estate people in the spring time and the summer starts rolling around their work it's it's there's cyclical things and that's cool you work hard for two three weeks where you just have to get after it but when that starts turning into months in in multiple weeks and then months and then secular months of your health is taking the backseat we have a issue now that being said there are not too many jobs that consume 23 and a half hours a day of

your time they're just not that many jobs that do that now what in what you might be facing here is you might be blaming your job for you being lazy that that can be be happening that's a strong possibility actually because you can make time for a 20-minute workout right 20 minute workout right 20 minute workout like that if you get 20 minutes you get in there shake it out a little bit and you do you know couple hundred burpees go as hard as you can you just got a workout that took you 10 15 20 minutes right well yeah longer than that for me but yeah but you see what I'm saying though I do yes fully you do and then if you can do that if you sprint if you do 10

sprints right doesn't take you much time you do go go knock out three four five sets of Go knock out a couple hundred pull-ups how long does that take it doesn't take that long Right take you 15 minutes you're done so then maybe at night you just roll up there you grab your kettlebell and you knock out some swings it takes you seven minutes We're not talking about a bunch of times. So are we being lazy because we're not carving out 15 20 minutes half an hour you know a lot of people ask me about what the workouts I do when I'm on the road a lot of times when I'm on the road I fly into a city. I get there 11 o'clock at night. The next time,

next day I'm working with a company at 8 o'clock in the morning. And so my schedule's tight. Why am I in the hotel room? The hotel room gym sucks for one thing. And I'm going to bang something out quickly. You know, it's not going to be an hour workout. No, it's going to be like 20 minutes sometimes.

Now, sometimes if I have a little extra time, maybe I'm not meeting with the company until lunch. Cool. I'm going to have a nice long workout, of course. But if it's, I'm due to meet with the CEO. for breakfast at seven o'clock it's gonna be a quick hardcore 12-minute workout Yeah, and that's cool so you got to carve that out and So you know make sure that it's the job

That's doing this to you and not you that's doing this to you yeah So if it is your job truly truly your job is the thing that's making you unhealthy then you got to fix it now What you have going for you is that companies want you to be healthy, right? Companies understand the benefit of having healthy employees not just from a productivity standpoint, but from like an insurance viewpoint. We if we got a you know, we've got health coverage for our employees and all of our employees are are sick and lame and lazy and we're having to pay their medical bills and they can't work. It's problematic. So what you do is you step up and you say, hey, you know what?

We don't have a health and wellness program. I want to run it. We need a little gym. We need a little gym. Oh, it's going to cost money. Yes, it's going to cost money. But I'm going to save you money in productivity. I'm going to save you money in insurance.

I'm going to write a point paper on that. I'm going to win that one all day long. We're going to put a gym in the lounge and we're going to put some mats in the donut room. You know what I'm saying? So we're going to do it. I think LinkedIn has a jiu-jitsu room. You mean? Oh, LinkedIn, the company.

I think I saw a picture of they have a jujitsu room. Good idea. Yeah. to pay me to work there oh you got jih Tjitsu room free members yeah so you get so go you know step up your company I can guarantee your company wants you to be healthy so step up maybe take leadership role and forming the health and wellness program for your company get you know my my brother's company you know it frag mop he uh they don't have a they don't have a they don't have mats in you know obviously in the office but yes

Yet, yeah. We are working on that. It's funny, though, he'll, like, he'll do this. He'll encourage people to go to Jiu-Jitsu, you know? To the point where they have rash guards even. Yeah, we have a pretty good representation from Fragmob at the gym. Yeah. You know what I call everyone from Fragmob that trained?

You know when I nicknamed them? What? All of them? Fragmob. That's their actual name. It's not a gym anymore. No, no, your name is Fragmob. Yeah.

But that's good because it becomes this culture that kind of catches on. You know? Where, and this is just Jiu Jitsu. It can be kind of anything CrossFit or even spin. I don't know, whatever, but jiu jih Tzu is kind of good because it's one of those ones that you can kind of come and talk about it and you know, Hey, I choked you out or you choke me out kind of thing.

You can choke your boss if he's there. You know, it's like that kind of stuff. It's real fun. And they even have like rat, like I said, rash guards. The rash guards, like if you work for a frag mob, it'll say staff on the back. It'll have like, you know, they do like AI and, you know, development and stuff like that. So the, the staff.

staff one will be um what does it have on the sleeves like digital digital circuitry yeah yeah and then um the other one says we'll say security that's like you know friends of yeah yeah friends or the family whatever between the hardware and the software rash guards right right that's what i mean that's exactly what it is so the soft the guys who actually work for fragomob have the software rash guards that has like circuitry on the design and then the the hardware oh no sorry the software is or the little zeros and once like matrix the code yeah yeah yes exactly and the security guys who were. Anyway, nonetheless, that's kind of, that's like a good look, because that's not really an official program in Fragmon or in a company. It's just, it's kind of the influential element of the culture, you know, where it's like, and you know, my brother, he, he pushed that, you know, not kind of overtly, I guess, but it's more, it was like, you guys, it was like, hey, you should come down.

I'll give you a rash guard and okay, cool, and guys, and it was funny. There's a time there's a bunch of Fragom people in there, just going. Interesting. But yeah, that helps. It does help for sure. Now, the thing is, if none of that works, if your company's just dragging you down and you've checked and double-checked and triple-checked your own discipline or lack of discipline. And you realize that it's the work that is bringing down your health.

In that case, you've got to follow the procedure. You've got to find an exit strategy. Create an exit strategy. Save up your money. Line things up. Get the ducks in row in the execute. Because your health is going to be. more important than everything else yeah then everything else all that the money

you could possibly make if you got a sacrifice a year and a half two years and you gonna grind it out like an investment banker that shows up on Wall Street is gonna grind for two years and their health is gonna suffer but they've got a goal at the end of that hey understood you sometimes you got to do but you got to at the end that two three years he if you're not there and you're not where you want to be and you're starting to decline in health they're gonna get some stuff you won't be able to recover from so Make your decision then you come up with an extra strategy and move on do something else

Yeah, and health health and even like fitness is Is this thing is called systemic versus direct you know as far as being beneficial so exercise is like one of the few things in your little hierarchy of Like needs or whatever That affects everything else like if you if you're an unhealthy person versus a healthy person the healthy person the health person will be better at everything else he'll be better at making money he'll be better at all relationships he'll be better obviously health-wise in and of itself I mean obviously if you've got some guy that's brilliant and really out of shape versus a guy that's an idiot who's in great shape the brilliant person's probably going to make more money and do better in

the long run I mean we're talking you have to put them on a level in intellectual playing yeah you're talking about the same person oh yeah then for sure for sure but the Your person was gonna win but it so can compare that to the directing like will people be like hey Making money is important so it's more important than health but his thing making money doesn't Improve your health making money doesn't necessarily improve friendship or romantic relationships Necessarily in fact a lot of times it damages them a lot of the times health doesn't damage anything It improves everything there's not Anything that I can think of anyway that health makes worse yeah or being more fit makes worse get healthy stay healthy

stay healthy. Yeah. Stay on the program. You know what? And it's one of those things, too, man. Like working out. When you're on the road, that's a big one, right? It's hard to, like, get a solid workout on the road because you're busy or whatever.

But there's, this is going to sound crazy, but when you think about it, it's not, not crazy, but sound kind of unrealistic. Where, okay, so this is what I've been doing recently when we went to New York for the muster and, like, all these other stuff. Before I go, I'll research jujitsu gyms and fitness gyms where I can work out because, like, you said, the hotel gym is like, if you don't have anything else in, but you still have to, but you still have to have to, but you still have to have to. Okay, good. But research where are the gyms and prepare like okay, how long is it going to take me to get there? Work out, get back, all this stuff, and then you fit it in your schedule. And here's the thing, if you don't want to fit in your schedule, then don't work out. Then health is not for you then. But if you're like, oh, you're asking, you know, this kind of question where, you know, is it wrong to sacrifice health and all this stuff? That means you're concerned about health. Then be concerned about health. You can fit it in. You're surprised what you can fit in. Just like you don't have to get that good of a workout, but you're fitting it in, but here's the thing You can fit in a good workout. You just got to make room for that you got to plan it's a psychological win too like I if I'm going to speak somewhere At a minimum, I'll do a couple hundred burpees before I get when I wake up

Yeah, that just gets the blood flow and you're ready to rock and roll Yeah At the muster I there was no break in the program I went to 24 fitness I've rolled a hard one at hanzos and then we rolled that at the muster which wasn't hard necessarily but there's a lot of roles in there and so man it was there was no break in the program but the point is because I knew that that was I made time exactly right it was important and I don't want to say it's important like it's the number one priority I'm saying it's part of the the whole what I'm doing it's not part of what you're

doing then don't be healthy then don't make it part of what you're doing I vote against you on that one I say make time be healthy yeah I think so too that's my opinion but I'm saying You know how people, you know, like, people will be like, I don't have time. My job is so whatever. Hey, if you straight up don't have time, then you don't have time. Health is not for you. You chose everything else over health. And that's up to you.

I'm going to go on the limb here that most people, you can make time. That's the point. That's my whole point. Wake up a half hour earlier. Yeah, because you know, you know when you really don't have time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like one time, I don't know, two or three months ago, we were, we came in and we skipped Jiu-jitsu to record the podcast right and I was like man we skipped jiu-jitsu to record

the problem is good we had no choice right it was like we didn't do that we weren't gonna get a flight in the afternoon right and we just had to do it yeah and so yeah occasionally that those things happen yeah so consider that right so it's either skip jiu-jitsu one day and get the podcast out or don't we could have chosen train jiu-jitsu don't do the podcast but at that point given all the circumstances the podcast that one day It's keeping jujitsu one day is more important for that one day because it's not like we're giving up jiu-jitsu completely for this It's not that we're actually holding the line with the podcast

Exactly right and that was important that day because we're kind of faced with that thing what do you give up? So what that's the question? What do you give up? Do you give up? You know a movie and room service? Do you give that up? Yes give that up like I said hey if you don't have time You know I go to hotels. I don't even turn on the TV Yeah, Ben I don't even turn on TV because I don't have TV at home and so I I don't know a year or two ago I went to some hotel and I've turned on the TV and next thing I know You know an hour and a half went by and I was watching some movie from 1986 Zool-lade going you've got to be kidding me turn it off

You know what I always do I hang my chalk bag on the TV That's my that's my standard operating procedure I hang my chalk because you know they're all the thin TVs now when you travel when I travel so you bring your chalk bag? Yes I bring a chalk bag I bring sweat bands for my rest because I sweat I bring a chalk bag I bring a chalk bag I bring my little notebook. Dang, that's good. Um, a mobility wad, ball to do some mobility work.

Yeah. And I bring some one inch tubular nylon that I used to stretch. Oh, dang. Yeah. So you're good to go regardless. And occasionally, like when we went to the muster, I brought rings with me. Yeah, I saw that. That was good.

Because I knew I was going to be on a tight timeline. I knew I was going to have to, you know, get some workouts done. And I traveled a little bit heavier. Yeah. Because I normally travel really light, but I had an extra bag. So then no rings. Amen. No factor.

You were there for a while, too. Yeah. A couple weeks. Yeah, I was in Austria and then came back to New York and then from New York to Texas. So there's a road trip. Yeah. Dang, see, and you made it happen. And you're busier than the normal person, in my opinion.

Kind of busy. And from, yeah. But again, man, I think, you know how that old saying, I think, I don't know, you might have said. It might have been Henry. I don't know where I saw it. But it's like, there is no free time or spare time. or you know work that there's just time you know it's it's one of those oh do that that is Rollins that's a wrong yeah so it's like time so there's no spare time there's no

free time there's just life just time yeah so you better just get on it so unless you're like Peter Atteer remember when he was talking about what Peter Atio was talking about like there is no time you're just working the whole time like you can't oh oh when he's at med school yeah yeah so if you're in that situation that then that makes sense you're not gonna be like hey I'm gonna not doing this part of my med medical program You're pulling over the side of the road to a park to fall asleep for an hour. It's because you haven't slept in nine days. Yeah.

So there are exceptions for sure. But again, like if you're doing room service or you're, you know, you're watching the game or you're stopping at the bar or doing anything. I'm not even saying necessarily destructive things. I'm just saying things that aren't conducive to your quote unquote work that's keeping you so busy or whatever that are essential. If you're doing these other things, then there's where you can make time. How can one ever have time? If you don't take time. I like it.

Next question. My wife and kids are quick to anger. Sometimes it's explosive like a moab. Mother of all bombs. Other times it's a slow grinding war of attrition. Being a student of your podcast, I've learned the worst strategy is to directly attack their fortified emotional position.

It seems like this is a good opportunity to employ the flanking maneuver. How do I effectively flank their anger without appearing weak okay first of all flank yourself because that appearing weak thing that's pretty much in your head really it is it's legitimately in your head and that's the first thing you need to do is that's your ego talking when you don't want to when you don't want to when they hit you with something that they're angry at the thing that's hitting back is ego that's what's hitting back so first thing you got to do is okay i'm gonna check my ego right now because i'm gonna win the

long war in fact you have to be careful when you start calm when everyone else is angry, you have to actually be careful not to come across as aloof or, you know, arrogant. Yeah, yeah. Like when people are getting mad, okay, okay, for instance, if your wife is super mad about something and you show no emotions and you don't get mad at all, they get madder sometimes, right? Yeah. You don't even care about this, you know?

So, no, so you got to give a little bit, you know, I'm not saying it, you know, a little bit of a I get it right but then what you want to do is absorb oh they want to get mad cool absorb take the screaming give the head nod of understanding in a only marginally emotional way that pretty much communicates that I understand you're mad and I'm I'm listening and I hear you you know I get it and let them get it out of their system just let them get it out of system then let them calm down and then after you've given them the time to kind of calm down and settle down and I mean it's longer than you think me it's it's longer than you think let them let let let let let when you think they're calm wait on extra 45 minutes

if not two hours probably two hours yeah because they're not calm to be safe they just stop screaming right right so and then what you do is and then what you do is and which you do is you kind of take it on yourself you're gonna own it right and you say something like hey you know that thing that made you mad I want to make sure it doesn't happen again I you know what can I do better to make sure that you don't get mad about that right you take you take ownership of that what do I need to adjust and what exactly is it that that I did that frustrated what is it that frustrated you what can I do to stop it maybe it wasn't me maybe you're mad at the

printer but you know how can we fix that because I don't want you to do and and then you know so you have the that kind of conversation and you know you're gonna slide something tactfully and they're tactfully because again you're still dealing with like you know possible flare-up scenarios happening so you know but you but you say something like you know we both know that nobody benefits when people lose their temper right I mean we got to be careful you know no one it's not doesn't do us any good when people lose the time we everyone knows that right so you slide those things in there you're

giving that kind of like a little mini lecture indirectly about what's happening and then when you have other conversations now we're in just a normal day-to-day thing you drop things about temper you know you talk about temper be well you know it's a weakness and it's no one makes good decisions when they happen and then those are temper everything some of the dumbest things I've ever done was when I love you know everyone knows that but you know you see you start sliding those things in there that it's bad for your decision-making it's bad for relationships it's bad for your

health it's bad for life and again you're not directly saying these things You're subliminally saying you're you know it's man I remember one time I lost some of the dumbest things I ever did when I lost my temper and I kicked the wall and I broke my toe and I put a hole in the wall and the landlord came That's when I say I hate when I lose my temper Mm-hmm and you start getting them in the even thinking about it over time and this is the thing it's a long war And there's gonna be relapses along the way Mm-hmm, but you got to just hold the line Keep it steady, absorb, and then flank gently to get them to start self-recognizing where they're at and what their temper does to them. Temper is crazy.

Yeah. When you see people lose their temper, it's a total loss of control. Yeah. It's a total loss of control. And it just doesn't do anybody any good. And when you see someone that really loses their temper, you're like, what is wrong? Yeah. Come on yeah and when I was a kid and I used to lose my temper and at some point I just realized

I forget what it was I forget what made me I think it was something my dad said to me There's something about you know something along those lines of like yeah, you lose your temper it's like a little baby Oh loss of control okay, so you you you when you realized it that's because of yeah My dad said to me something along the lines of like you know I think he was referring to an athlete or something someone that just had no emotion and how that was impressive. Yeah. And I was like, hmm, that is impressive.

It's massive control of one's self. Just nothing is going to make me mad. Yeah. Doesn't matter what's going on around me. Yeah. Yeah, it is like a baby, you know? Like I said, you know, like babies, they cry and they, whatever, because they don't know how to talk.

So if they knew how to talk and control everything, they'd just be like, hey, I'm cold. Or, hey, I'm hungry. But they don't know how to talk. So why do adults go crazy and cry? Because they're babies. Because they don't know how to talk. talk if they if they if they cry for every little thing their babies yeah they don't

know how to talk I say actually you know what under um and it depends it depends how much control and all these other little variables but it's like the front part of your brain that's the decision like oh okay I'm gonna make this this this conscious decision right which is the last part of your brain to develop by the way and it's like the conscious decision making yeah the front frontal frontal cortex you know something like and it happens and it fully develops around age 25 by the way so if you're 24, 23, 22, 21, and so put simply, it's like, okay,

my action's not, how do they affect the future? So in one way or another, it's going to be kind of surrounded on that little premise, small little premise. So otherwise, you're just going on straight auto mode. However you feel, that's going to influence. Not totally control,

but that's the thing that's going to influence your behavior. So times of stress, your frontal cortex start to shut down a little bit. Hunger, shut down a little bit. hormonal situations for guys and girls. Oh, so you lose your temper more. That's where hangary comes from. Hangary is one of them, you know,

and it's like all these things, loss of empathy, loss of like all this stuff where your decisions just aren't that dope. Yeah. And so, and when I say hormonal, like that's why you get road rage,

you know, because like guys, if they're on steroids, that's their hormones are up. Or girls, PMSing, it's like a real, you know,

pre menstrual syndrome. It's like their hormones are all so I remember one time my wife started when she was pregnant She started crying during an AT&T commercial Like legit crying so an auto mode Oh my god what's wrong with her some of those are kind of sad They're just emotional nonetheless so why were you crying during Hawaii five oh oh man? I'm telling you they're trying they're trying to make it deep man that show you're watching Notties Anyway nonetheless um it's back to losing your temper and stuff it is a weak thing so it's kind of obvious especially

from the outside to see that look the losing your temper is not cool and a lot of people they think it's cool because it feels good yeah when you're a little kid you respect it because you see someone lose their time oh my gosh she's powerful like turning into Superman right yeah in a way he's mean he's feared but right but right you're not feared but you look stupid yeah you look dumb yeah that's the message to convey to your kids yeah losing your temper is stupid yeah And man, some people there, you could tell they say that stuff with a little bit of pride. You know, it's just me and my temper.

My temper is going to get me in trouble. And they're all like, yeah, you know, proud. I'm a hothead, man. That's like, that should be the kind of, you know you. I wish I didn't. That should be. If you say, hey, I just have a temper. That should be the equivalent of you saying, I don't know how to read.

It should be that, hey, nothing wrong with it. You can get past it. And, you know, whatever. I'm not going to judge you for it, but it's not good. It's not a good state to be in. Be someone who can't control your temper. Just like it's not a good state to be in as a grown adult to not know how to read. No judgment, but you solve that problem.

That's A. B, if you're having, like if your kids have a temper and they're easy to anger, it's because chances are, I don't know everybody, of course, but chances are they got it from the parents. Keep in mind, you're one of those parents. I'm not saying, I'm not saying that you have a temper. I'm not saying you don't But I am saying sure Kids have a temper Your wife has a temper

You got to really honestly evaluate Do I have a temper And understand that Because the kids, they're just these little Seeds of beings Who are like, hey, how do I act? I don't know how to act I'll act how, you know, just how I'm feeling

I'm going to cry. This is my default I'm just going to cry when something's wrong around from people So you're saying if the parents have a temper And show that and act that way The kids will learn it from them Are you going to learn it so There is something like genetic though I think well maybe I guess we don't know if it's genetic or not but there's some we know the father has a bad temper and then the kid has a bad temper yeah but there's no temper gene so what it is is there's a genetic situation for sure that you're more apt to not be able to control certain parts of or not not be able to control but but control less you know certain parts of your brain or chemistry is going to make you lean towards certain types of behavior like impulsive behavior or something like that there is a lot of you there is a lot of you there is a lot of you there is something like that there is

that for sure but again man when you're a kid you're just looking for how do I act I don't know I'm growing up I don't even know how to act so the first thing you're going to look at is the people the authority figures in front of you the parents if the parents aren't there who are they looking to I don't know the guy next door the guy on TV the guy up the street the guy in the music video whoever I don't know whoever's doing better than me that's it so if you're you're the parent and you're losing your temper all the time kids gonna lose their temper that's what they're gonna learn how to act so point there is if you lose your temper or if your kids are losing your temper you start with yourself because you know the kind you know the kind there's

certain things that's real easy to see when someone else does it yeah most things but yeah but yeah you simply don't see it sounds like this guy here that asks this question he's saying his wife loses his temper and that could be where the kid is getting the the modeling from right right and he's saying he doesn't. Now, is there a chance that he does too? I guess so, but it sounds like he's prudy together, and he's saying, look, I just need to get them to calm down. Right.

So, yeah. In this situation, I'd say it's probably the wife who's losing her temper, and then the kid is imitating or modeling, and then we have this scenario happening. So what we need to do is explain to everyone in the family that it's not good. We're not losing our tempers anymore. Yeah, and the reason I say it, too, is, again, I'm not saying he does lose his temper,

but I am saying that it is a possibility that, Because if let's say me and your husband and wife and you lose your thing. How about we're just bros? Yeah, but we're in a, you know, who's the wife? Okay.

Me and my wife. Okay. If she loses a temper, her temper, and I'm taking the direct approach, right? Yeah. Which I understand now. You're going to lose my temper back.

I'm going to go fire. I'm going to fight fire with fire. You raise your voice. I'm going to raise my voice. The kids over there in the corner. How do I? act oh that's how I act right there that's a possibility and kids will become antisocial that's the thing goes on it's one of the things one of the many things

anti-social I told you about that book called mind games small little book forget the author like pretty clearly and concisely laid out if you have angry issues like what up with that it's insecurities change my whole life low self-esteem next question next unless we want to go no you sure next question Okay. Jocko Willink. Tactics to flank slash shift a ferocious analyzer from paralysis to go. Meaning what?

Some who overthinks things and hesitating and planning and planning and planning. Well, there's a couple things here. The person is above you or below you in the chain of command. So if they're below you in the chain of command, you, you know, you explain to them. You say, look, we don't need perfection. We're not going to have 100% solution. We don't have 100% of the information. that's a good enough solution we need to move forward let's execute and you know what

I'll take if things go wrong don't worry about it I'll take responsibility for it I'm not gonna blame you which is what you're gonna do anyways as a good leader so that's what you can do for there below you in the chain of command if they're above you in the chain of command guess what same thing you're gonna tell say same thing like hey boss we don't need perfection here look boss we're not gonna get all the information we need we're not gonna get a hundred percent solution we got a 90% solution and let's go for it and if things do go wrong you can blame me I don't care so boom the weather they're above you or you know below you the chain of command you might

change your tact or your verbiage a little bit but it's the same same overall concept you got to get them to understand that we don't need perfection we need to move forward and the other thing is you explain the cost of not moving the cost of staying still the cost of being reactive instead of proactive in basically the cost of not being aggressive because that's what we're talking about is a lack of aggression and so what does that look like will you explain to them that the longer we sit the better position the enemy gets into the longer we wait the less we know about what is actually happening think about that one the more you sit here and you're planning the less we know what's going on out

there the things are happening they're changing they're evolving the enemy is maneuvering There's developments on the battlefield or in the marketplace and you don't even know because you're sitting in the planning space The longer we wait the less time we have to recover if something does go wrong So if we sit here and plan for 47 days and on the 48th day we step out and we start to execute something goes wrong We're not going to make the 50 day mark because we spend all that time planning So the longer that you're sitting around the last time you have to recover and adapt and adjust and the longer that you're you wait while you're doing planning the less relevant your plan actually becomes so that's what you need to make people understand and there's people that are just habitual and chronic

ferocious analyzers and those are the people you got to watch but you've got to continually just get through their head that the more we sit the more the enemy maneuvers and if we let them maneuver on us anymore we're going to get killed that's it pretty easy well it's not easy It's a simple concept. It's hard to get people out of their own heads just like this like everything else It's hard for the ferocious analyzer to recognize themselves as that They think they're doing a good job They think they're they think they're actually being thorough and you're a wild man. You're a cowboy. Are you crazy? Yeah No, I'm not crazy I remember one time my first deployment to Iraq

They said hey John this is after I've been there for a while and they wanted for some reason they wanted to know The minimum requirements for us to go out on an office I said I just need a vicinity of the target and of radio frequency to talk to the local Conventional units there and they were like well don't you need a sport? I was like all these other things I was like no we'll figure it out mm just send us yeah We'll go and there was other things that we would do as we'd move to a target we'd align things up and we'd but we'd be good Yeah, but sometimes people wanted to plan out every last detail well and that doesn't work the details are not gonna stay the same the things that you're planning on on are going to change.

So don't sit there and plan every last detail because it's not going to help you. Man, that's actually a pretty good point. Never even thought about how you say if you spend too much time planning, you know, and then you jump in the game all late. It's like, dang, you have no time to make any adjustments. Can't react. You better go perfect because that's all, that's the one shot you got at it. And guess what?

It's not going to go perfect because things don't go perfect. Yeah. Things are not going to go perfect. Not going to happen. No such thing is flawless execution. Dave Burke just wrote an article that was on Business Insider. That's what it was. Flawless execution doesn't happen.

Yeah. You know, he was a top gun senior instructor for three years. He knows about flying. And he knows how hard they worked towards flawless execution, but it didn't exist. The flawless execution was analyzing their mistakes, seeing what they can improve upon. That was the flawless execution for them. It wasn't the actual act of flawless execution. You know what they had?

Flawless debriefing. flawless analyzation of what they did wrong Yeah But it wasn't gonna be perfect opposite There's no such thing doesn't happen Yeah So if you're sitting and planning that

Trying to make that happen It's not gonna work for you Yeah so don't do it Just jump Just go Next question Jucco got a quest He actually wrote that

Yeah he did He's fully in game Got a quest How would you deal With a team member Who tries to take all the responsibility but cannot do as good a job as others. I don't know if it's sincere,

helpfulness, or a desire of power, desire for power. Ooh. See, there's a little twist on that one. Yeah. You see that little twist that puts a lot on that question right there. And so you got a guy that's trying to take all this responsibility for everything. Not really as good as he should be to be in that position,

but trying to take responsibility. And yet the person that's got the quest, he doesn't know if it's sincere trying to do. just help out the team or a desire for power so is it helpfulness or is it their quest for power where they coming from how do we figure that out well for one thing if someone is truly trying to help the team they will have an open mind to support and suggestion and help from other people they'll be open to that because they're just trying to do the best for the team if they're trying to take or maintain

which as we know is driven by ego there you don't want help and they don't want suggestions from people either they're just gonna do it my way I got this no it's mine so that's the difference so there's gonna be two different ways that I'm gonna handle this situation so for a person that's actually trying to help and trying to do a good job I'm gonna bolster them up I love it the fact that they have some shortfalls that's okay you know I'm gonna do them to give them some support I'm gonna put some people on their team that can help cover some of those shortfalls I'm gonna try and set them up to win and learn and be

educated while they are winning and if they're humble which I'm assuming that they are because they have this attitude that they're trying to help out everyone then while I'm doing this whole process of course I'm coaching them and I'm mentoring them and I'm giving them suggestions and I'm turning to someone that can do a good job in that situation so that's pretty easy you got somebody that wants to take ownership and responsibility and they're doing it for the right reasons boom let's help them out let's support them let's get them training let's get them knowledge and let's get them up to speed we got a

upcoming leader I dig it if it's an ego driven person and they are maneuvering for the power well then what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna let them get humbled by the experience because remember it's stated that they're not as good as they could be at this job they're not particularly good at what they're trying to take control over so that's fine I'm gonna let him get humbled by it Now, I'm going to assess the risks. I'm going to make sure that no one's going to get hurt or no one's going to get killed or we're not going to fail a mission or in the business world make sure they're not going to lose

millions of dollars or we're not going to suffer some kind of a strategic setback, but I am going to let them fail a little bit and let them see that they're not as good as they think they are. I'm going to let them learn about humility. Right? I'm going to let them learn about humility. now if they learn if they are humbled by that and they realize that they're not as good as they realize that they're not ready to control everything and they realize that they need help

if they learn from it and they don't just cast blame then they'll become a much better leader you will actually help them by letting them get humbled if they just get done and they just cast blame then we see them fail and now we have legitimate reason to say look I can't put you in charge you just failed I can't allow this to happen again So that's how I would basically handle that situation now of course there's all different kind of gradations of Of those realities and the answer will be somewhat scaled as well right? So you that's what you do you scale the answer maybe you give this person a little bit of help but you know, you know, maybe You're not gonna give them any help at all you know them fall flat on their face

Maybe you're gonna bolster them up a lot But you're still gonna talk to him and say hey listen you need to step back and get more in the weeds on some of the lower level stuff because you're not ready to manage this yet You know so it's cool but that's my basic overall Concept of where I would be going with that do you find that like even with the expression extreme ownership or in this case I'm familiar with that it's all the responsibility do you find that Not people get confused but you know yeah like people will kind of get confused you know how you say okay take responsibility because it seems like anyway from what I told think I totally understand with extreme ownership is here I think I totally

understand oh I like it I like we're coming from you take responsibility sort of you take responsibility for the mistakes and the solution yes that is a extreme ownership so and then but then it from what I heard like sometimes when people ask questions it'll kind of this one's kind of ambiguous but sometimes people will ask it ask a question or make a statement comment whatever in terms of take responsibility or take ownership of like not of the problems or the solutions but but like before the mission like this is my yeah this is my you can overstep you can be you can use too much extreme ownership you can say hey this is my echo this is my

mission I'll tell you how to do it no input from you that's all me yep yeah and by the way I'm taking all the credit too and we get back which is actually equally wrong right I should do is say hey I will Echo I'm in charge of this but hey man I want you to come up with a good plan I think you got a great insight I think you know the terrain better than me can you come up with a good plan and then we get back if it's if it's a successful mission I'm like hey guys everyone look at what echo did and I tell the commanding officer echo ran this great operation I think he's ready to step up in leadership he really did a superb job if it fails what am I doing pointing the finger at echo no I'm coming back and say hey boss Here's a mission failure these are mistakes I made here's what I did wrong here's what I'm gonna fix next time

That's real simple so would you say in a nutshell? Extreme ownership applies to Problems and the solutions to those problems and that's all no it applies to everything It applies to everything because even when I say hey echo want you to come up with a plan for this You come back and brief me with a plan? I still take ownership of the plan It's your plan but I go through it. I say okay. This looks like a good move. Hey echo I'm looking at this right here. I don't know if this is the best way to execute this.

Right, right. Here's the issue. So I'm not taking ownership of it that I'm pulling it away from you, but I'm definitely going to make sure we win. That's the thing that drives me crazy sometimes with leaders is they don't realize it, but they're making excuses because they'll say, oh, you know, I let, I let me, I'm decentralized command, so I can't control everything. No, actually, you are responsible for everything.

And if I got three teams out there and you're one of the team leaders, and I come to you and say hey echo here's the plan I want you to execute I still have to look at the plan I still have to make sure that I agree with what you're doing have to make sure you're not doing something that doesn't make sense right yes I do have ownership of the plan yeah absolutely like it's your family member or something yeah yeah that plan is like it's I love it like a son kind of yeah the plan is the plan you came up with a plan you created it it's my grand kid yeah right yeah so you're it's yours but I'm still gonna take responsibility and ownership of

got you but where people it's when you your ego starts flaring up and I start saying no it's my plan and we're going to do it my way that's where we have issues yeah but yeah the ownership doesn't stop and it just doesn't stop when you're in a leadership position it doesn't stop you own everything up and down the chain of command it's hard to do it's hard on your ego for sure yeah because it kind of seems in a way counterint to i guess if you understand all the little subtle dynamics of it because you know how like if the plan fails boom that's one extreme ownership is really going to show it's it for it's a super successful flawless plan it doesn't it's more covert because it's more internal because you got to give the

credit for sure everyone else everyone will we'll sit there and go oh jocco's you know he's he's given the credit to echo for the operation you won't show up as extreme ownership for sure it'll be harder to see yeah and people will say dang people know that I was in charge right they know I'm the overall okay so I'm still going to get some credit right it's more covert but but it's way Mark overhead and it's better. It's better. That's that's the hard thing. That's what's so hard for people to realize they want so bad to raise their hand and say yes, it was me. It was my operation, but it doesn't help you. It doesn't help you. It feels good for like half a second and then you realize you just deflated yourself. Is that kind of like when you make a donation to charity, but you want like everyone to know that you did it? It's kind of like that. Yeah, I guess it's similar to that. Similar concept, right? Like in a weird kind of profound way. I guess we'll Just move on to next question how the profoundness of your last statement Just saying on a certain level it's the same thing because you know you did something good You know or you are something good or whatever but it's like saying I'm I'm the most humble guy in the world

You know I'm just super down to here's the other thing about this when I give you the credit for success Yeah not only do I win covertly in that you look at me and go man he he gave me a couple of corrections that were critical to this operation he's not even saying anything so you have even more respect for me which means you're gonna work harder for me in the future you're gonna do even more and we're gonna look even better so I am gonna ultimately win yeah because my team is gonna be kicking so much ass all over the globe and people are gonna say wow you know this these guys are just winning everywhere they go well and and and and so it's very very positive whereas if I

took that credit from you on that first operation and I took it from you how hard you working on that next one not as hard not as hard you know maybe you're a great guy yeah maybe you're a great guy but you're just a great guy but you're still not going to go that extra little edge you're not going to do it because you're not going to get credit and you're not going to do it because you don't care that much about making me look good as you would if I was taking care of you yeah there's nothing better than having guys that you're taking care of they know you're taking care of them and they're going to do anything for you like they're going to do anything they're you you know and you'll do anything for them it's a

mutual thing it's real yeah it's a real thing yeah it's like the gift that keeps on giving it is it's a powerful tool you know that's why the book's been so popular and it's and it's it's why the book has been so popular because when you when you break it down and people see what it does they realize how powerful it is yeah and it's and it's also you know another reason that the book is so popular is because we put it in a very clear way yeah and it's easier to understand it doesn't make it easier to execute, but it makes it easier to understand for sure. Yeah. It's crazy too, and someone said, it might have been someone at the muster. I don't know, could have very well

been on Twitter. I don't know, but, oh, someone was saying how it's so interesting how they started to realize that it applies to their relationship with their like husband or wife or for sure. And I always kind of look at all this stuff is primarily that, you know, because I mean, who do I, especially now, who do I work with? You know, I'm like, oh, I don't have to like, I don't go through these extreme ownership, struggles, you know, with you. So it's more, you know, so to me everything

just applies to like your relationship with your wife, my one, whatever, you know? So, and it all translates all of it. It does. Yeah. When you take ownership of stuff, you, it's when you take ownership of stuff, then you can control the outcome. Yeah, it's crazy.

When you don't own it, you don't get anywhere. Yeah. And that, that, you know, you have a, I don't know, disagreement, argument, any ripples in the water where the instinct is to point fingers, you know?

But when you, even though the other person is really in the grand scheme of things, you're both to blame. I know that. But they do have their huge role in the issue, in the problem. Don't do that. Don't even pay attention to that.

All you've got to do is shine the light on your own things and say, don't. I mean, and how you say, don't be, don't like, be hard in yourself. You know, like that kind, like the kind, I suck. suck it's not that it's no it like what did I do this is what I can do exactly right so what's interesting is and you said it from the beginning but it is interesting to just watch it play out

so it's almost fun but it's more just real interesting where when you do it and you just keep doing it you always do it that's the thing consistently do it you just watch how the other person just changes yeah and just becomes kind of the same thing and before you know it like the ripples in the water are pretty much gone yeah and what's you need someone in the team has got to start doing it that's that's one of the hardest things yeah occasionally we'll work with a company where everyone's like oh yeah extreme ownership no one is actually doing it yep when no one is actually doing it and all they're saying is like I wish that guy had extreme ownership and that guy should have extreme ownership and I don't see anyone

else taking ownership and hey I haven't seen anyone else taking ownership therefore how can I take ownership you know we send out when we work with a company we'll send out surveys you know pre class surveys and then post because we'll do a number of sessions so we'll send out to the leadership team that we're working with how's it going and we'll send out a week later two weeks later three weeks later four weeks later and sometimes when you get a team where no one is taking ownership and and literally you'll hear people say well the boss isn't taking ownership so how can I take ownership if the boss isn't even taking ownership they don't realize that when your boss isn't

taking ownership it is an opportunity for you to take ownership and to excel and to gain respect and trust and power and power which is a good thing because you're doing things for the good of the team so you want to have power right I want to have power when I'm when I'm a team leader I absolutely want to have power and the reason I want to have power so I can distribute it properly amongst my team and I can utilize it so we can be successful in our mission So when you have your CEO isn't taking ownership Awesome. I'm gonna take ownership and when the rest if the CEO is truly not taking ownership and I do Everyone else looks at me and they start to I elevate my position that CEO becomes irrelevant

Because all he's doing is sitting around point and fingers I'm taking ownership of things and solving them I'm actually gonna end up in a superior position now I might not get promoted to the CEO Today or tomorrow or in two years I'm actually going to end up in a superior position. I'm actually gonna end up in a superior position now. I might not get promoted to CEO today or tomorrow or in two years I But when this information gets back to the board or to the directors or whoever, they realize that there's one person that's mutually respected by everybody and that's you because you took ownership and when you take ownership you solve problems and when you solve problems you win But somebody has got to start it and it's hard sometimes in some situations you get the the What's that word they use like the caustic environment right toxic the toxic environment where Everyone's just so so defensive about everything and it's difficult those are the difficult situations to to work with you and all it takes is the transition of one human one person in that team to step up and say you know what This stuff that's going wrong is my fault CEOs don't worry about him

He's got enough problems. He's got a deal with the he's got a deal with the shareholders meeting we don't we don't we need to protect him yeah yeah you know what this is my fault that this happens and here's what we're gonna do to fix it here's what I'm gonna do and that just changes the attitude and of course you're gonna have two or three people in that defensive toxic environment that are gonna look at him go yeah it's right it is you're right it is yeah yes you're right it is it is my fault and here's what I'm gonna move forward here's what we're gonna do to change but it's hard to be that person to take that first step and then you gotta keep that going you know but again man after a

little bit you see the guy next you he's starting to do it then the guy next to you know it's in extreme ownership the book it it it's pointed out but it's not super crystal clear that when I was taking blame for the blue on blue that happened everyone else was to you know those guys were saying hey it was my fault I did this was my fault I did this yeah and that was because that was that wasn't the first time these guys had seen or heard ownership you know when we were going through training and something was screwed up I'd be like hey this is my fault this one and so everyone had that really good attitude yeah yeah so

And that happens in a company. So what you're saying, it does. That's one of the best things about this idea, this principle of extreme ownership, is it spreads throughout the company. And will you get people on the team that will not take ownership of things? Yes, of course you will. You will get that person. And eventually they will either leave or you will fire them.

One of the two things will happen. Because when you have a person, when you've got the whole team is going, no, it's my fault. And eventually everyone's, oh, that's not your responsibility. Cool. I'll take that. Oh Echo you can't handle that cool that's not your fault okay then I'll I'll take it and fix it oh echo you can't handle that either or it's not your fault okay I'll take that and fix it eventually you don't have a job anymore Yeah, so if you want to don't want to take ownership of things including problems I will take ownership of all them and I'll eventually take your job in your world and it'll be mine Fazed right out phase you right out like you weren't even there

That's what's gonna happen So yes it's a powerful powerful tool Yeah and the other thing is you see like you see politicians do it all the time they don't take ownership when they make a mistake and when they do it's sort of this lip service of it was my fault it was my fault that this happened but right right but blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and all anyone hears is blah blah blah blah blah blah once as soon as you say but and then you make a bunch of excuses that's all anybody hears yeah and there's just it's so weak yeah it's so weak

to do that and it sounds when like you said when you get used to hearing it when you get used to hearing people take ownership of things when somebody doesn't it sounds like Satan is screaming out of their mouth and and and just horrible it sounds awful it's like a it's like a cacophony of just sickness right that's what it is yeah it stands out for sure you know when we're at the muster it's like I was talking about how when you start taking ownership of things when you start having this attitude when When when you feel yourself about to make a mistake and cast blame on someone else Like you feel like you're gonna throw up in your mouth it's like you it's like you it's like it's like it's like vomit is coming out of your mouth

And then you stroke it back down because you don't want to let that puke out onto the floor Yeah, that everyone see it yep. It's not allowed that's all it is when you blame everyone else. It's all it is it happens all the time and it's so It's it's it's the it's it's like the other thing I talk about with with with stepping back and how you step back off the line and how much visibility you have as soon as you step back off the firing line as soon as you just elevate yourself six inches above what's happening it's the same thing when you start to take ownership it's like the change it's just this little change but it just completely changes the dynamic of what is going on in your business and in your life in your life because it's the same thing in life when people are blaming everyone else they're blaming the market And they're blaming their parents and they're blaming the the debt that they built up and they're blaming the car that broke that blaming everything else that's going on And when you all you and everything when nothing is your fault what are you gonna fix? The answer is you're not gonna fix anything whereas if you go okay These are some mistakes that I made and here's what I'm gonna do to fix them

That's the paradigm change and that's where you start getting on the right path The muster, your line at the muster. I included it in the video. Favorite line, I think, says, sure, I'll take the blame and I don't care. I have a mission to accomplish and I got to get the problem solved. Yeah.

That's what it was. Yeah. It's in the video. Best part of my opinion. Yeah, I will take the blame. And I don't care. I don't care. Bring it.

Bring it. Jocko. We got time for one more. yes I think we do Jocko on the Joe Rogan experience Everlast from House of Pain was on Everlast was explaining how he wasn't in shape and Joe played the good video for him

Everlast said it is inspiring but it didn't always work and the example he gave was his sick daughter who had a lung disease that the doctors can't explain I wondered the same thing how is a sick child good You know, I saw that episode as well, and it's definitely a hard question. And actually, to quote a song, a great song, by Everlast.

And I haven't walked a mile in his shoes, and I've been extremely lucky and blessed. with the health of my family, my wife, and my children, and I am so so thankful for that. But I have been around

disease and I have been around death and of course to say there is something good about death and disease is impossible to do to hell with disease, the hell with cancer and ALS and heart disease and all the rest of them.

Hell with them all. I have nothing good to say about disease or death. Curse them both. Is that where I'm supposed to focus? Am I to latch on to death and disease and ride with them down to the depths of despair? I say, no, no, I will not ride with them. I will not go down their evil path.

Instead, because I cannot find good in their vile darkness, the vile darkness of disease and of death feed their fire. their egos instead I'm gonna look elsewhere we'll look to life and light and I will find good in those places good in every moment I get I'll find good in every breath I'll find good making memories and holding them dear I'll find good in knowing that I will learn from this horrible experience that everything that I'm going through all the pain and suffering and darkness, it'll make the light brighter and stronger and more powerful than disease and more powerful than death. So and shake your fists at the sky and curse death and curse disease and shout to the world

that life isn't fair and that this is not deserved not for me not from my child not from my friend my spouse my brother my sister not for anyone is and all that evil when it creeps back again let it go again life memories sacred memories let those flourish and grow sponge the darkness from your world tonight it's a rough one yeah I think um proud that gang it's like I think that like that like that outlook on it is is important because that's not just easy to do you know especially man and me probably been lucky my daughter had a staff infection you know in her lymph You know the hospital for like week weekend after something like that and you have the viewpoint

You're lucky that that happened oh my you know when you go to a children's ward and you see kids that are just suffering from horrible Diseases it's awful and you feel lucky exactly as you should you know they were lucky to have this yeah and At in that moment when we're in the hospital I'm like you know like you're scared you're like sad scared for them you know it's just But I think that just even hearing that is like it's kind of like it does help you know Yeah, and it's one of the things that you know when I want to you know when you talk about the reaction you have and you know the fact that It's okay to like scream and shake your fists at the sky that's okay for that and then I'm saying you know that you got to let it go but But at the same time, everyone's got to realize that you let it go,

it's coming back. It's coming back. And it'll sneak up on you again. And then you gotta do it again. You know, you gotta go through that. You gotta scream and curse the evil that it is. And then you gotta let it go again. And you're gonna go through that cycle over and over again.

But what you can't do is you can't not go through cycle you can't just get trapped in the screaming and the suffering and the pain you can't get trapped there and it's really hard and I noticed that you know when I had when I had my friends get killed overseas I realized you know when we'd be home and like everything would be normal like maybe would be out Having some beers with the boys or we'd be doing something and all of a sudden like you just get hit with this wave of sadness And it would kind of just almost instantly I'd be like breaking down like Like ready to cry or crying and then three minutes later I'm like out of it. You know, I just had to get rid of it. I just had to expunge that sadness and but what you can't do is you just can't get caught in those cycles and I think that's what happens to people and again

I haven't walked a mile in those shoes But what I have seen is I know that it's hard. I know that it's heart break But you can't let it break Everything you have to try and hold it together. Yeah It's like part of the like going through I know this on a low level. I guess I understand it's like a little level But part of like the feeling that you get is like like what do I do like I feel like I can't do anything and then that provides these feelings, you know But if you start to to understand what it is that you do have to do and one of those things is is essentially like understand it that yeah it's going on don't try to block it or escape do some

escapist activity or whatever just know and understand that it's going on and then on top of that on top of it your job is to be strong you know you know that's that's another thing that I've noticed especially and it happens with anybody but with some of my seal friends that have been in these horrible situations is they're alpha guys that are you know Used to being in control of everything and used to being able to control the outcome and you can't Yeah, you can't control the outcome and then what do you do well? It's like we learned from Charlie Plum. It's like we learned from Bill Reeder you can't control that thing

The only thing you can control is your own attitude your own view of what's happening and if you're if you control your attitude and you make your attitude the best possible attitude it can be that's the best you're gonna do and again I wish there was some I don't have some miracle solution to these situations and no one does if we had the miracle these problems wouldn't happen these horrible things wouldn't happen so what can we actually control well what you control is our own view of of it our own assessment our own attitude and that sounds that's like a trite word but our own

attitude of what's happening and make that as good as we can and are there going to be points where your attitude turns completely dark and negative of course there are how can you not but don't let it be permanent don't let it be permanent for the sake of the situation for the sake of the person you care about they don't want you to live like that so don't and again you know it's gonna be sick sick sickle car from what I've seen it's gonna be cyclical in nature the way it happens the way people deal with these horrible emotions is they go down and then they come up and then they go down and they come up and and when they go down when your emotions go down when you get dragged into

the the the mindset of loss then I think the best thing to do is just embrace it grab it say yeah and like I said shake your fist at the sky and scream and then let it out get it out and then pick it back up and said to yourself okay that was horrible that's darkness that's evil that I couldn't control what can I control and how can I have the best possible view and what can I learn from all this that's It's gonna make me a better person with a better life to live the best I can in their memories And even yeah man

And man when you're in the situation like especially with working out where your daughter's like you know in the hospital or whatever And you're like yeah I haven't worked out this whole week Yeah it's like who cares about workouts your daughters in the hospital you know ooh you didn't make it to jiu jiu jitsu like you don't care about jiu jiu jitsu anymore you just care about this one thing you know but again just like how you said it's like so it's like this big burden in life because really you know a lot of time your kids are like all you have really it feels like so if you don't have them who cares about jiu jitsu who cares about working out i don't have anything you know there's no reason to even do them really but aside from the fact is there is more like to your life And in fact, the more your whole life

Beside them is for them, you know So you gotta get to you gotta kind of you gotta keep that I think Yeah, no doubt and I think that's always an important thing to remember is that If you Surrender to all that Darkness that's the legacy that's the example that's what you're showing as opposed to showing the legacy and showing the example of not giving up of moving forward of driving on and doing the best you can

with life and with the things that are good and again having the attitude to control the things you can control and put them in the best possible light that you can. Yeah, and it's a, and it's a spectrum, you know, I mean, it kind of puts into perspective, in my opinion, why you should do the best you can, when things are going good, because they're not always going to go good. Yeah. It's my opinion.

Anyway, speaking of doing the best you can, working out, we know, obvious, obvious workout. Work out hard too, you know. I mean, maybe not every single day working out hard, but work out hard. When you do work out hard, you might need some supplementation. I think I wasn't a supplement guy. I wasn't before. You know this, right? I do.

I might have mentioned it. Everyone else. But now I am a supplement guy. Happy to say, not the kind of supplement guy who's like, hey, take this power gainer. Hey, what kind of protein powder you take? But even though I'm not against protein powder, I don't take any. But nonetheless, you know what I'm talking about. Creel oil.

I'm going to say to my father-in-law, his name is Ross. I'm sorry for not heeding all of you. Is heating his just advice? Can you heed advice or is it just warnings? Okay. So you can heed warnings and advice. Yes. I should have heated Ross's advice, my father-in-law, about the creal oil.

Eventually, Jock would turn me back onto it or further onto it. So I'm on it now. I think on it. You'd be happy. Literally on it. On it. Pond intended. Onit is the company, if you didn't know, already.

I get, Jock gets, krill oil from Onet.com. If you want 10% off all these supplements, which are what? Shroom tech, good for oxygen uptake is what it is. So when you're doing these hardcore met cons, jiu-jitsu, your body takes up the oxygen, easier more more efficiently corticeps mushroom some science for you right there strong bone that helped me

but I had this and I kind of wanted to report this before but I wanted to take too much time and the jury was still kind of out on it but so I had this tendonitis kind of situation and it's weird it wasn't in like a normal place like in your elbow it was in my deltoid muscle where it inserts

into the humorous bone which is your like bone under your bicep it was like tendinitis and it's like you know the kind of like I'm not injured I'm not out but I got to warm up more I gotta rub on it you know all this stuff and I'm lifting hard I'm not gonna take days off if I'm not injured so Brad this thing wasn't gonna get better

that's the thing about tendonitis like if you keep lifting hard on it it just simply won't go away it's the whole reason there's tendinitis because you're lifting hard on it you know brother this thing's not going away I'm just gonna have to live with it or wait for you know the time

where I don't know have to skip workouts whatever but I'm on the strong bone I'm like all right strong bone let's see what up you know do your thing I'm not saying it was because of the strong bone but nonetheless the tendinitis it's not completely gone

I'm being honest with you but it's pretty much gone I'm warming up normal I'm a believer of the strong bone thanks for turning me on to that check jocco anyway go on there there's a lot of good stuff for a lot of good things from supplements and there's workout stuff

on there too so I already had weights and a gym membership but when you go on there you see the stuff that they have you're going to get some of that too because it's not like normal like kettle bells

you know there's all the cool ones and there's info too on this stuff like I understand that you know a lot of people a lot of us we want more info than just oh yeah Joko takes it so I'm gonna take it

some of us are like that anyway we need more info so there's info on the website be careful you can get stuck on there because it's real interesting and in depth, by the way. So just be careful with that.

Anyway, onet.com slash jaco. I recommend the krill oil big time. To me, if you're not on the krill oil, you're behind. You're like a good one to two steps behind. Like step steps, not like a half step. Like you're behind. If I had a twin brother, which I do, you give us a five-year period, two-year period.

I'm on krill oil. He's not on cruel oil. We do the same exact workout program, same lifestyle. I'm way ahead of him way ahead of him when we're functional is this factual that's it's this my hypothesis okay it's hypothetical is jade on krillov I don't yeah he's on grill but he don't have that same he doesn't get after it physically as much as I do so this yeah it's hard to have that for a basis of comparison for the cruel oil nonetheless good stuff on there and the good thing about on it you can I can say this with pretty with absolute certainty

at this point is that it's the good one it's good stuff because supplements in general, I don't want to mention any store names, but, you know, when you go in the Meathead Bodybuilder store, a lot of those supplements are, they're whack. They just have, like, sparkly, like, labels and stuff and their junk. On it is not like that.

Get 10% off. If you want 10% off, go onet.com slash jaco. That's a good way to support this podcast as well. Another good way to support my opinion. You know what's interesting is, get you read you review books on here and sometimes actually a lot of times when you have the guess you actually have their book and you read their book to them yeah which is like a switch that was and i think probably talked about this but when we had jody middick this is the first time it happened

jody came on and you know i had his book and i was like okay well should i have him read this or should i read this or i just wasn't quite sure and it seems Like the common sense answer would be Jody read this section of your book right. Right right It's kind of like the common sense answer and you could talk about it and for some reason my gut told me don't no we jocco read it I read it right and as soon as we got you know probably I don't know halfway through it Jody said you know something like man here and you read this is like crazy to hear it and it's true when you hear someone else read something to you it's it's different it's different so so that's what I've done every time since you know when we had Colonel Reader on here and he said the same same thing you know it's it's hard when he's like he's saying the most unemotional way he's like when you're reading this to me it's extremely emotional for me to hear yeah you know

but it's in and same thing with with Cap and Plum you know same thing and Mannion as well yeah Yeah, yeah, so it's it's really interesting the way that works and it's definitely it's unbelievable to have the author sitting there Yeah, and to have my spin Yeah, because that's what it is right? It's my it's the way I hear it yeah, and For them to hear the way I hear it They it it hits them from a different angle yeah right so I think that's I think that's where the The interesting powerful part comes from and it's essentially yeah, it's interesting yeah, I It is very interesting.

And it's interesting to watch it. And, you know, you're a little bit different than a typical person just reading a book, you know? So you really get the, to me, is what it feels like is like, that's kind of how the book is supposed to feel, you know, like when you read it or whatever. So, you know, the point is like, I think a lot of people feel that. So, you know, they say, oh, I want to go get this book. But they're like, oh, what was that book again? I got to rewind it. So anyway, you don't have to do that.

Just go on our website, jocococop.com. There's a section on the top books. Boom. There they are. all the books by episode. Boom, you can get them. And when you buy your books through there, support the podcast as well.

So boom, double, double edge. Double gravitational? No, it's like, no, it's a two-pronged sphere. Now what if you weren't getting a book, you were getting like duct tape? Anything, yeah. So that's the thing, yeah. Our Amazon click-through situation.

So yeah, even if before you do shopping, boom, just click through. We've got banners, Amazon manners, all upon there. Click there. But most people, they do the book. You know, but yeah, if you're doing your shopping as well, do that good support Golf clubs, golf clubs, whatever you like.

Some people do cameras. Some people done some pretty cool high-ticket, high-dollar items, which is very impactful. And then the low-ticket items, lower-cost items, you might not think it's a big deal. But then when a bunch of people do it, it is a big deal, and it's very, very helpful to the podcast. Yep. Good way to support Amazon click through. Boom. also good way to support this podcast is to subscribe seems obvious I know

but you know if you haven't subscribe on iTunes Google Play Stitcher what's the other one that I keep missing I don't know hey man whatever podcast platforms that I post someone said something about SoundCloud I got to look into it I don't think that that's a subscribed podcast situation I don't know they're just audio I don't I don't know either so I shouldn't even say anything but nonetheless I look into it if in fact people are committed to the sound cloud situation. Anyway, subscribe if you haven't already.

Also, YouTube, if you want or are interested in the video version of this podcast, it's been on there since number seven. I think seven was the first video episode. The other ones are on there, but they're just audio with the picture of your head. No, I think it's

your head. Yeah, it's up. It's face it. But yeah, if you're interested in that, go to YouTube. Don't you wish we had video from back then? I do. Kind of. I'm so bummed out. We don't have it. Yeah, the closest you have is like a picture of me trying to what was it what was the you're setting a periscope periscope yeah yeah remember the first one we did live on periscope we tried no we did we did it live on periscope huh yeah just try and capture that video i know nonetheless video that's the point there if you want to see you know i guess what we look like if you don't know i don't know i feel like

the guess that's where the value comes in well for sure everyone likes to see roger hayden the heroes it yeah yeah right yeah right that's a good one too because he's like like his stories man it's fun he he acts things out a little bit as he sits yeah yeah but in this real mellow kind of nonchalant badass way you know it's real good um but yeah youtube subscribe to that one if you like um also yeah it's the video version of the podcast yes but we i will take a little excerpts and we'll post those as well so you can you know if you like if you're into sharing little lessons with your friends or coworkers, whatever you can do that.

So you don't have to share the whole podcast. I'll put some other stuff on there. Interesting stuff. I think we'll think up some other stuff, just in relation to it. We've been spitballing about some stuff. Anyway, if you want to see what that is, yeah, go on YouTube.

It's not like YouTube costs money. Or does it? No, it doesn't. It's free. YouTube Red costs money. Yeah. Yeah, we're not dealing with YouTube Red. We're not doing that.

Not yet. No, I don't charge for content. Oh, no. No, we're not going to do that. No, no, no. But I was thinking about getting YouTube. Oh, right. Yeah, that's a whole other thing for sure.

But yeah, YouTube, subscribe. You want to support that way. That's cool. Also, Jocko has a store. It's called jaco store. Jocco store.com. So this, I keep forgetting everybody's name, but very clever guy said, hey, this was a haiku. And then I went through it.

I was like, dang, I'm so. But I was like, ah, it's not a haiku. Because the way he said the jaco store, yeah. So why don't you change it? So it's a haiku. Because it might Yeah, I guess. Okay, here we go.

Also, Jocko has a store. It's called the Jocko store. Jocco store.com. Boom, there's a haiku. Nonetheless, jacocco store.com, that's where you can get, if you want shirts, rash cards,

hoodies, some patches, Velcro, regulation size, and color. Some women's stuff on there. Anyway, the point there is, if you like T-shirts, you want to represent, get a shirt.

Boom good support They're good shirts too They're not the free thing when you put on a get after a t-shirt Yeah, do you get a little bit? Yeah, you want to get after it more and actually that it that actually sounds kind of funny But when you think about it's super obvious so like you know how like I mean I don't know It's it's a liter it's a literature thing There's a literature thing

It's called something it's called something like the dressing of the warrior Yeah, yeah. And you'll see it in movies. They do it in movies. We see the guy putting his boots on and putting his gear on and putting his sword and picking up his shield. That's Donning his helmet. They do it everywhere from Night movies to Gladiator movies to Soldier movies in the modern day. You'll see these scenes. Well, they do it in literature too So there's a little something that there's a little reality to that like I'll tell you what used to get me was flipping down so night vision goggles you wear them on your helmet and they they they they they they flip up when the lights are on when you're you're getting ready to go and then when it's time to go Yeah, flip down your nods and for me Like that was just game so game on it's so game on when you flip down those nods And so when we even when I got back from my last deployment I'm working training and we go out we'd still be on night vision

We'd go out at night to observe the troops and run the opposing forces and all that But I get out on the target area and Flip down my nods and I'd like go in a full combat mode. It's just so good on So I think sometimes you put on the get off shirt You sort of feel little something. Yeah, I think it was gladiator that movie when they're like I don't know it's like the emperor or something came up and then there was like this small act of defiance from the gladiator guy and then all the guards behind them They all flipped down their thing and boom we're ready to go real quick. I think it's gladiator probably Might have been something else nonetheless. Yeah the modern version of that right with these like and it did happen to me when the first shirts came in the discipline equals freedom

I was like, oh, the shirts are, and I put it on, and I wanted to, like, go work out in it. You know, and they make sense. When you get a new rash guard, it's like, where you get a new ghee or something, you're like, oh, can't wait to go practice in my new ghee kind of thing. Like when little kids get new shoes. Yeah, I can't write faster now. Oh, yeah. In football, when we split in Pop Warner football, we'd get the new shoes for the season. I can't wait to go to practice.

Practice super hard. It sucks, too, especially as a little kid. But you just want to when you get that new stuff. Nonetheless, so, like I said, jocococcal.com. get yourself a new shirt. You get the one that says get after it. Guess what you're going to really want to do. Get after it.

Some other ones on there. Pretty cool, I think. And they're good. They're quality shirts. That's, in my opinion, that's even more important than what it says on them. Because they're wearable. I can print like, yeah, Jocko's cool sayings on a junk shirt. You wear it one time, you're like, all right, you know, maybe I'll wear that again.

But it's not very wearable. I don't look that good in it. It's not the case with these ones. ones look good I've had multiple people say it's my favorite shirt to wear because I look good in that that's kind of the case with the first round of travel mugs the the silver ones oh yeah like they were not as high quality as what we went to yeah they said no they said discipline equals freedom yeah the silver mugs they said discipline equals freedom they looked you know they looked pretty cool but we needed higher higher quality yeah yes

So it's essentially the same thing. You get the mug, you're like, cool, my new mug and all this stuff. That new travel mug is going to, is going to distance. That's going to replace your whole cup cupboard. Straight up. It did with me. And I didn't even expect that. But yeah, 30 ounces.

And it fits in your cup holder in your car too. What's the black on black? Discipline equals freedom. No one can see it. Except for you. Well. The owner. No, you can see it.

Here's a good thing about it. It's black. It's you see look at it. It's black. It's not shiny it's not so it's matte. It's like matte brush is shiny black and then yeah then the logo and stuff is shiny black so people have to look a little extra hard to see it Yeah, but there's a subtlety to it that's powerful it's for you it's for you it's for you it's looks dope they call it They call it murdered out in their cars black with black rims Looks good and it's double insulated dot with is that double insulated? That's what it's called yeah When yeah your ice you put ice water in there you leave it overnight next morning still you still have ice water even if it's a hot

night even if it's a hot day outside it's amazing I left my name my car you know you go where'd I go grocery store you know you spend a lot of time in the grocery stores no no I was coming back from somewhere left it in my car with I it was just ice I drank all the water and left it in my car came out later that evening boom I still in the car hot day it's amazing it's a miracle yeah anyway those are good high quality quality PPA free, all that stuff. Anyway, jocco store.com, if you didn't know already. Also, good way to support yourself,

and this podcast by happenstance, is psychological warfare, is what it's called. If you know what that is, it's an album with tracks of Jocko telling you how to get through your moments of weakness in the event of you having a moment of weakness. Getting up early, procrastinating, even being creative.

It's like for everything. being creative. Like, how can you get talked out of writer's block? How can you get talked out of that? It's weird, right? Yeah. You will be talked out of writer's block and write into creativity. Yes, exactly, right?

And same thing with workouts. Anyway, for all the little moments of weakness that you might have, don't worry, Jocco's there. Get it. Psychological warfare. You can even buy the individual tracks, too. Let's say you're like... Just, no, but that's not as good of a deal.

No, but I mean, really, 99 cents. Yes, it is a good deal. It's a great deal regardless, in my opinion, because look, my whole thing wasn't the wake up early. It was going from not working out to work. You know how it's like, okay, I got to work out today. But I'm on the computer. I'm doing something. It's a little late.

This is important to. Exactly. I should really focus on my craft right now instead of working out. Exactly. Right. So the workout day becomes a rest day, you know, impromptu. You know, kind of. And that was kind of my thing.

But so there's a track for that, you know. So if all I need is really that track, the diet. the diet thing I'm not you know that week when it comes to like the diet stuff so you know so maybe I don't need it but I'm not saying to do that I'm saying there's that option so you get the one it's on iTunes it's on Amazon music

Google play Google play pretty much anywhere where they sell music MP3 online MP3s boom it's on there it's called psychological people that want alarm clocks people always want an alarm clock or ringtone yeah just put it no no alarm clock if you want to wake up

to like Someone telling you to get up that's then that someone right jaco yes yes yes Because people want me to do something like that but I'm like we already did it that's one of the reasons why we did this Yeah, yeah, you download that specific file to your phone and then you yeah you make it make it your alarm lock Yeah, psychological warfare jocco willing boom you can also get Jocko white tea on Amazon and people ask if I ever drink energy drinks and the answer is yes, I drink joccal White tea it's my energy drink sure no need any other energy drinks no that actually sap your energy once there once their crash hits you yeah talk of white tea that's not

gonna happen you'll be going strong way the warrior kid the book I wish I had when I was a kid that shows kids the path you can get that book as well as for adults that we need to get on the path there's another book out October 2017 discipline equals freedom field manual it's the path that's it extreme ownership of course combat leadership from the battlefield and translated into strategies and tactics that can be applied in any leadership situation extreme ownership get it and then get it also you can also get echelon front leadership and management consulting into your company you got lay fabin you got

Pete Dunnell you got Dave Burke and you got me you can contact us at info at echelon front dot com of course the muster leadership conference but not your normal conference it's not your normal conference so don't whatever your vision of a conference because I've spoken at a bunch of conferences that conference it's not that it's different it's different the normal conference you're waiting for the break and then you're gonna disappear to your hotel room for like 45 minutes waiting for the happy hour all that other stuff that's not that's not we're doing here at the conference at at the muster the the the muster starts at

eight o'clock in the morning everyone's there at seven o'clock in the morning after we get done with PT everyone's there at seven o'clock in the morning including all of us we're hanging out we when we started eight o'clock we started eight o'clock boom it's go time so it's not just your kind of typical conference thing we get after it knowledge interaction solving problems we go and we go hard I just peaked out the microphone I don't do that normally but we go and we go hard next one is in August or sorry in Austin Texas July 13th and 14th at the Omni Barton Creek resort which only has 300 people we're over we're over halfway sold out right now

so register quickly if you can't make that you can come to San Diego September 14th and 15th for must at zero zero four we look forward to seeing you there and until we do see you there if you want to talk to us you can find us drifting about inside the interwebs on Twitter on Instagram and on thatch faceable echo is at echo Charles and I am at jocco Willink and as always to the military personnel deployed all over the world thanks for everything that you do for us to the police firefighters EMTs first responders thanks for keeping us safe and make sure you stay safe as well to everyone else that's

listening thank you for listening thank you for supporting thank you for spreading the word thank you for getting up early and thanks for working hard than your enemy and as echo said earlier thanks for taking advantage of when times are good because times will not always be good until next time this is echo and jocco