Jocko Podcast - 83: Your Children Are Watching You. How to Stop Making Excuses. Gaining Credibility Once It's Lost. Bad Bosses. Warrior Mentality While Getting Dumped.

Episode Date: July 12, 2017

0:00:00 - Opening 0:01:14 - A letter from a soldier to his sons from a fox hole in Iwo Jima. 0:09:54 - A letter from a mother to her daughter before her execution in Czechoslovakia.  0:53:29 - Recommended strength and conditioning for BJJ.  1:08:46 - Can you gain credibility back once you've lost it? 1:16:22 - How to lead a team dealing with the loss of a member to suicide. 1:24:14 - How to manage a team with a bad boss without creating division in the team. 1:30:51 - What is the "warrior mentality" when dealing with getting dumped by a significant other. 1:41:11 - False Motivation VS Authentic Leadership. 2:01:25 - How to stop making excuses if you are a  "chronic excuse maker".  2:05:02 - Support, Cool Onnit, JockoStore stuff, with Jocko White Tea and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual.  2:29:26 - Closing Gratitude.  Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 83 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. On the 19th of February, 1945, after three days of heavy pre-landing bombardment, which attempted to destroy the heavy fortifications that the Japanese had built, On that day, the 19th of February, 1945 in American amphibious forces, primarily U.S. Marines of the 3rd, 4th, and 5th Marine divisions, along with soldiers from the U.S. Army's 147th Infantry Regiment landed on the island of Iwo Jima. by the end of the first day some battalions had a casualty rate of over 80% on the morning of 20 February 1945 Marine Corps first lieutenant Isaacs was taking cover in a foxhole about 300 yards

from the beach when he was hit by a Japanese mortar strike he was severely wounded in his left arm and in his head he was evacuated to a hospital ship offshore which is where he died the next day on February 21st 1945 and it was about two months prior to that on December 17th 1945 that First Lieutenant Leonard Smith Isaacs had written a letter to his two boys. Now, I have a lot of people ask me questions about parenting. I got four kids, so people want to know my thoughts on it. People also obviously ask me about war, and they ask me what kind of advice I have for my son. And I think that First Lieutenant Isaacs answers many of these questions a lot better than I ever could. And here's what he told them in that letter.

December 17th, 1944. My dear little boys, I'm writing you today, just a week before Christmas Eve, in the hope that you will get this little note at Christmas time. all of this coming week will be holidays and I can just imagine the fun you will be having especially when you know it's just a few days before Santa Claus will be coming if it were possible I would like to come down the chimney myself and crawl right into your stocking wouldn't that be a surprise I would enjoy it even more than you but since your dad is far away and Santa Claus has the only reindeer that will fly through here I'm afraid we'll have to let Santa Claus use them. After all, he has so many places to go in such a

short time. I won't be able to give you a Christmas present personally this year, but I do want you to know that I think of you all the time and feel very proud of the way you have been helping your mother while I'm gone. I know that it's only natural for young, healthy, and strong boys like you are to want to play and have fun all the time. But I do want you to think about helping mummy because it is hard for her to do everything while I'm gone. I know that you would like to give me a Christmas present too. So I will tell you what you can do and this will be your Christmas present to me. Every day, ask Mommy if there are errands that you can do for her.

And when there are errands to run, say sure, Mommy, and then give her a big smile. Then during the day, go up to your room and look around if there are toys scattered all around. or you left some of your clothes on the floor, pick them up. Also, when Mommy is busy trying to clean up the house, don't leave her by herself. But ask Mommy if you can help her take care of baby sister. If you do those things for me,

that will be the finest Christmas present that you could give me. Oh yes, and Cece, are you eating your meals like a real man now? Well, my boys, I guess you often wonder why people fight and have wars. And why lots of daddies have to be away this Christmas time at fighting when it would be much nicer to be at home. That's a hard question to answer. But you see, some countries like Japan and Germany have people living in them, just like people you and I know. Those people want to tell everybody what they can do and what they can't do. No one likes to be told how to live their life.

I know that you wouldn't like it if one of the boys in the neighborhood tried to tell you what church you should go to, what school you should go to, and particularly if that boy would always be trying to beat up some smaller or weaker boy. You wouldn't like it, would you? And unfortunately, the only way to make a person like that stop these sort of things or a country like Japan or Germany is to fight them and beat them and teach them that. being a bully because after all that's what they are is not the way to live and that we won't put up with it what does all this mean to you just simply this my boys dad doesn't ever want you to be a bully I want you to always fight against anyone who tries to be one I want you to always help the smaller fellow or the little boy who may not be as strong as you I want you to always share what you have with

the other fellow and above all my boy boys have courage have courage to do the things that you think are right never be afraid to fight for what you think is right to do those things you need a strong body and a brave heart never run away from someone you may be afraid of if you do you will feel ashamed of yourself and before along you will find it so easy to run away from the things that you should stand up and fight against if you and lots of other boys try to do the things that dad has been talking about in this letter It may be that people will not have to fight wars in the years to come and then all the daddies in this world

Will be home for Christmas and that is where they belong Perhaps some of the things that I have been talking about you don't quite an understand If you don't, mommy will explain them to you She knows Merry Christmas and a happy new year. God bless you. Daddy. And obviously many brave Americans stood and fought for what they believed in on that tiny island of Iwo Jima. And they suffered massive losses to gain that victory over the course of that five-week battle. 19,217 were wounded. thousand eight hundred and twenty one were killed and first lieutenant Leonard Smith

Isaacs Marine husband father daddy married at sea thirty four years old reading that letter made me think about another letter I had read from another parent and it's another letter that I find to be just an incredible guide to not only to parent but to living and this one was written not by a father but by a mother and it's not a letter to a son but to a daughter and the daughter's name was Jana then the mother's name was dr. Mialda Horakova and she wrote the letter from prison while she was on trial for treason and for conspiracy on trial by the Soviet-backed communist government of Czechoslovakia after they had taken control of the country in a coup and she and her fellow so-called conspirators were jailed

and tortured and then put through a grandiose show trial and she knew she knew that she was going to be made an example of she knew she was facing death the night before her execution she wrote a letter to her daughter who was 16 at the time and this is some of what she wrote my only little girl jana god blessed my life as a woman with you as your father wrote in the poem from german prison God gave you to us because he loved us. Apart from your father's magic, amazing love, you were the greatest gift I received from fate. However, Providence planned my life in such a way

that I could not give you nearly all that my mind and heart had prepared for you. The reason was not that I loved you little. I love you just as purely and fervently as other mothers love their children. But I understood that my task here in the world was to do you good by seeing to it that life becomes better and that all children can live well. And therefore, we often had to be apart for a long time. It is now already for the second time that fate has torn us apart. Don't be frightened and sad because I am not coming back anymore. Learn my child to look at life early as a serious matter.

Life is hard. It does not pamper anybody, and for every time it strokes you, it gives you 10 blows. Become accustomed to that soon. But don't let it defeat you. Decide to fight. Have courage and clear goals, and you will win over life. Much is still unclear to your young mind and I don't have time left to explain to you things you would still like to ask me. One day when you grow up you will wonder and wonder why your mother who loved you and whose greatest gift you were managed her life so strangely.

Perhaps then you will find the right solution to this problem. Perhaps a better one than I could give you today myself. Of course, you will not only be able to say. solve it correctly and truthfully by knowing very very much not only from books but from people learn from everybody no matter how unimportant go through the world with open eyes and listen not only to your own pains and interests but also to the pains interests and longings of others don't ever think of anything as none of your business. No, everything must interest you.

And you should reflect about everything. Compare and compose individual phenomena. Man doesn't live in the world alone. In that, there is great happiness, but also a tremendous responsibility. That obligation is, first of all, and not being an acting exclusive, but rather merging with the needs and the goals of others. this does not mean to be lost in the multitude but it is to know that I am part of all and to bring one's best into that community if you do that you will succeed in contributing to the common

goals of human society be more aware of one principle than I have been approach everything in life constructively be aware of unnecessary negation I'm not saying all negation because I believe that one should resist evil. But in order to be a truly positive person in all circumstances, one has to learn how to distinguish real gold from tinsel. It is hard because tinsel sometimes glitter is so dazzingly. I confess my child that often in my life I was dazzled by glitter. And sometimes it even shone so falsely that one dropped,

Pure gold from one's hand and reached for or ran after false gold. You know that to organize one's scales of values means to know not only oneself well, but to be in firm in the analysis of one's character, but also to know others, to know as much as possible of the world. It's past, it's present and future. In short, to understand. Not to close one's ears before anything and for no reason. Not even to shut out the thoughts and opinions of anybody who stepped on my toes or even wounded me deeply. Examine. Think. Criticize. Yes, mainly criticize yourself.

Don't be ashamed to admit a truth you have come to realize. even though you proclaim the opposite a little while ago, don't become obstinate about your opinions. But when you come to consider something right, then be so definite that you can fight, then die for it. As Walker said, death is not bad. Just avoid gradual dying, which is what happens when one suddenly finds oneself

apart from the real life of others. You have to put down your roots where fate has determined you for you to live you have to find your own way look for it independently don't let anything turn you away from it not even the memory of your mother and father if you really love them you won't hurt them by seeing them critically just don't go on a road which is wrong dishonest and does not harmonize with life i have changed my mind many times rearranged many values but what was left as an as an essential value without which I cannot imagine in my life is the freedom of my conscience I would like you my little girl to think about whether I was right

another value is work I don't know which to assign the first place and which the second learn to love work any work but one you have to really to know really and really an thoroughly then don't be afraid of anything and things will turn out well for you and don't forget about love in your life I'm not only thinking of the red blossom which one day will bloom in your heart and you if fate favors you will find a similar one in the heart of another person with whose road yours will merge I'm thinking of love without which one cannot live happily and don't ever crumble love learn to give it whole and really and learn to love precisely those who encourage love so little my little

little girl Jana when you will be choosing for whom your maiden heart shall burn and to whom to really give yourself remember your father I don't know if you will meet with such luck as I I don't know if you will meet such a beautiful human being but choose your ideal close to him perhaps you my little one have already begun to understand and now perhaps you understand to the point of pain what we have lost in him what I find hardest to bear is that I am also guilty of that loss I've heard from my legal representative that you are doing well in school and that you want to continue I was very pleased but even if you would one day have to leave school and work for your livelihood don't stop learning and studying if you really want to you will

reach your goal I would have liked for you to become a medical doctor you remember that we talked about it of course you will decide yourself and circumstances will too but if you stand one day in the traditional alma mater and carry home from graduation not only your doctor's diploma but also the ability to bring people relief as a doctor then my little girl your mother will be immensely pleased but your mother would only be truly happy no matter where you stand whether at the operating table at the lathe at your child's cradle or at the work table in your household if you will do your work skillfully honestly happily

and with your whole being, then you will be successful in it. Don't be demanding in life, but have high goals. They are not exclusive of each other. For what I call demanding are those selfish notions and needs. Restrict them from yourself.

Realize that in view of the disaster and sorrow which happened to you, Vera Peppick Grandmother and grandfather and many others will try to give you what they have and what they cannot afford You should not only not ask for it But learn to be modest If you become used to it you will not be unhappy because of material things you don't have You don't know how free one feels if one trains oneself and modesty

How he or she gets a head start over a Against the feeble and by how much one is safer and stronger I really tried this out on myself and if you can thus double your strength you can set yourself courageous high goals read much and study languages you will thereby broaden your life and multiply its content There was a time in my life when I read voraciously and then again times when work did not permit me to take a single book in my hand apart from professional literature that was a shame

here in recent months i've been reading a lot even books which probably would not interest me outside but it is a big important task to read everything valuable or at least much that is i shall write down for you at the end of this letter what i have read in recent months i'm sure you will think of me when you will be reading it. And now also something for your body.

I'm glad that you are engaged in sports. Just do it systematically. I think that there should be rhythmic exercises. And if you have time also, some good systematic gymnastics. And those quarter hours every morning. Believe me finally that it would save you a lot of annoyance about unfavorable proportions of your waist if you could really do it.

It is also good for the training of your will and perseverance. Your photograph showed me your new hairdo. It looks good, but isn't it a shame to hide your nice forehead? And that lady in the ballgown, really, you look lovely, but your mother's eye noticed one fault, which may be due to the way you were placed on the photograph. Wasn't the neck opening a little deep for your 16 years? Don't primp.

but whenever possible dress carefully and neatly Jana please take good care of grandfather and grandmother their old hearts now need the most consolation visit them often and let them tell you about your fathers and mothers youth so that you can preserve it in your mind for your children in that way an individual becomes immortal and we shall continue you in you and the others of your blood and one more thing music I believe you will show your gratitude to grandfather for the piano which he gave you by practicing

honestly and that you'll succeed in what Pepeck wants so much in accompanying him when he plays the violin or the viola please do him that favor I know that it would mean a lot to him and it would be beautiful and when you can play well together play me the area from Martha my rose you bloom alone there on the hillside and then sleep my little prince by Mozart and then your father's favorite under your window by Chopin you'll play it for me won't you I shall always be listening to you just one more thing choose your friends carefully among other things one is also very much determined by the people with whom one associates associates therefore choose very carefully be careful in

everything and listen to the opinions of others about your girlfriends without being told I shall never forget your charming letter today I can tell you which you once in the evening pinned to my pillow to apologize when I caught you for the first time at the gate in the company of a girl and a boy you explained to me at that time why it is necessary to have a gang have your gang little girl but of good and clean young people and compete with each other in everything good only please don't confuse young people's springtime infatuation with real love do you understand me if you don't aunt vera will help you explain what I meant and so

my only young daughter little girl Jana new life my hope my future forgiveness live grasp life with both hands until my last breath i shall pray for your happiness my dear child i kiss your hair eyes and mouth i stroke you and hold you in my arms. I shall always be with you, despite international outcry. Milada Horakova was executed at Prague's Pencrack Prison. Again, there's just so much to be learned

from those letters. And as parents, there's so much for us to teach. And I think the thing that It hits me is that these are all things that we know. We know them. We know to take care of our health. We know to wake up and exercise. We know we should choose our friends carefully.

We know we should be our own worst critics. And we know that if we have been wrong about something, we should simply admit that and move our minds to what is right and what is correct. We know we should work hard and help people. We know the value of freedom. And we know that freedom must be fought for. And we know that we should be brave and that that is possible only through a strong body, mind, and heart. And we know all those things.

We know them. Teach them and live them. Set the right example by living them. because our children are watching watching in and you know actually you I think you have to do more than just set the example I think you actually have to to tell them I think you actually have to tell them and you think about the power of these letters the power of these words but it's also a real challenge with kids with your own children It's a challenge because there's a whole crazy parental child psychology that's going on here

Right you got the rebellion Or the trying to please you or the competing for attention or the I can't do anything good enough You got all these psychological things that are going on with your kids and it's hard It's it can be very hard just to be straight with your kids about stuff It can be hard not to micromanage them. That's one of the hardest things because you know so well

all these things that we just talked about. You know them and you know that they're the best things for your kids. And yet if you push them too intensely, they're going to push back. Or they're going to push, they're going to head into a different direction because you pushed them there.

But I do think that there's some real value in taking the time to explain what you've learned the mistakes that you've made and I think it's key not to so much focus on telling them how to live I think this is the key is not so much focus on telling them how to live but telling them how you have lived the mistakes that you've made and how you try to live so that maybe they can learn from some of the mistakes that you've made without having to learn from life itself, which sometimes life is a much more brutal teacher.

In fact, most of the time. And if you have to learn from life, sometimes you don't win. Harsh. Yeah. Parenting is challenging. Part that I thought, think is very important.

The most, important maybe is when you said our children are watching so you know how remember the old saying do what I say not what I do yeah that doesn't work no because you tell someone hey don't don't don't don't don't try cigarettes meanwhile you smoke they're and be like okay don't try cigarettes you know whatever you know they're they're always like every day all day every day they're watching to see how do I act I don't know how to I'm a kid I don't know how to act I don't know what to do in this whole you know like when you walk into a party of someone you don't know and maybe it's a really nice party or something and maybe it's a different culture something like that you're looking

around what do I act are we taking off our shoes right here okay we're taking off our shoes okay are we are we are we are we eating now are we waiting for a prayer or something like what do what do we do you're constantly looking on how to add now kids that's the their whole life. Yeah. How do I act? I don't know how to act. So, of course, you're there the whole time.

You got things figured out. You got a car. You got a house. You're providing my food. You're going to show me how to act. So you start saying, hey, don't smoke. Meanwhile, 100% of the time, you're acting in a way that allows for smoking. You're like, okay, we're smoking.

By the way, it's the same exact thing from a leadership perspective. Yeah. The way you act as a leader. It's not at I mean that you're not going to have people that are as moldable as a kid is But there's no doubt if the way you act as leaders the way your team is going to act There's no that's a hundred percent yeah and if you act like a clown your team is going to act like Clowns if you take your job seriously your your team is going to take your job seriously If you're very well balanced in between those two where you you take your job seriously

But you still have a good time with doing it your your team is going to follow you with that as well I remember when I was a new guy in a seal platoon I would be watching those my leaders all the time and taking you know when they didn't do something when they didn't hold the line when they were late or didn't bring the right piece of gear it was just yeah you just look at them and shake your head now I wanted to perform but what that meant to other people's like see it doesn't matter if we really perform that well look the boss doesn't even perform well yeah and so you're setting that example yeah your subordinates are watching yeah everybody's watching you know how people will be like you know hey I'm the type of person that does this you know I really and everyone knows Brad no you're not we've been watching you that the whole time I've known you kind of thing so yeah especially like the boss too even even I mean you get all kinds of different people right in the work environment so you you're like driven it comes from yourself you're like really self like motivated and stuff pretty much yeah kind of so

let's even if you have a bunch of self motivated people they're still watching you like so if you're like kind of the leader and you're like hey you know we're we're punctual people We get a work done early like we're this guy and then meanwhile you're coming in late or whatever the boss is coming in late and He's slacking you can tell he's slacking he's passing like his job off you know onto others and that in that kind of stuff at the very least They're gonna look at you and not have the respect that I think you should have as a as a boss or whatever Yeah, the very least and that's if you have self-motivated people But otherwise the normal situation I've I remember feeling that all the time where I was like this is

I'm not going to listen to this guy, man. Yeah, man, it's, you know what's interesting, too, is just think about, and I know we've done other letters from parents, especially from parents that are, you know, headed for death or at least a high probability of death. But what would you say to your kids if you knew you were heading there? And is it not worth telling them that at some point, While you're alive and you can you can say hey look if you know I'm alive to tell you this stuff

This is what I want you to know again now what's crazy is even with that You have you can't override your kids with Act this way you can't do that you got to approach it you got to flank them You got to flank them you got I got to flank my kids You know they're not I think the classic example is my son He's got a jiu jit-to. right he's been training in jiu jitsu 10 years right he's 14 he's been been training in his whole life right but he's he's not as good at jiu jitsu as I am I mean he's just not because he's

been training for 10 I've been training for 20 something so you can beat him I can beat him yes yes but but check it out what's funny is I'm his dad so when I tell him hey son move your hips over here do you don't need to do that I'm thinking to myself you've got to be kidding me You've got to be kidding me that is the client to me that's the ultimate example of your kids are not going to listen to you They're programmed They're programmed to reject you at some point. They have to move on right That's the way the species works if they just

Continue to take from you and they don't Reject you at some point and get away from you Then you didn't do a good job as a parent because now they're relying on you so but that comes a little price the price is that rebellion right the rebellion's gonna come and it's you know you can you can identify it you know my youngest it's so nice you know you tell her something and she's just got the big eyes and she wants to help and wants to please and wants to do and and understands and I'll tell you something else there's another end of the spectrum too because my oldest daughter she went through the rebellion she's already through that and she got through it

pretty quickly to where she would like look at me and think to him think you could see it in her eyes that she's thinking he knows what he's talking about and I'm gonna listen to what he's saying now it does it's probably like a 50% right yeah it's not it's not a hundred percent I'm not just dialing in a hundred percent victory on telling her what to do because otherwise what's sad about that this is what's horrible about that if you could get a child to actually do everything that you wanted them to do they would dominate in life right because you would just say okay I want you to study hard I want you You work out. I want you to do everything that I'm not doing because I'm lazy and I fell short of my own goals You'd have them do all that stuff They're not gonna do it So you gotta flank them you gotta figure you also gotta figure out which ones are important Right which ones are really important don't waste your leadership capital Yeah, yeah on you know getting your kids to dress a certain way right that's one parents will spend all kinds of leadership capital on getting their kids to work dress a certain way

And the reality is I mean obviously you got to You got to remain Some standard of decency Sure And cleanliness Sure That's another lead by example situation

Yeah yeah it is It is my daughters Went through a little phase of wearing the short Really short Jeans or not not jeans but shorts Yeah I was like okay cool I was walking around one day at my house I had like a pair of workout shorts on or whatever.

I just pulled them right up. Yeah. And we're just walking on. How do I look? Hey, if we're going to show off, let's just show it off. Hey, I got a little something too. I do squats. Check me out.

The girls collapsed in agony. Yeah. I'm all collapsing. Stop. Dad, stop. No, that's disgusting. Hey, if we're showing off butts, let's show them off. Like I said, I'm over here on the squat rack.

Let's sport it. Got it. Flana. You apparently are. flaunting it so let's all flaunt it let's go into town who's coming with me yeah no man no no but you can only spend so much leadership capital on getting these minor corrections made what you want to make sure is that they have good morals and values so go out in town they know where to draw the line on doing stuff that's good or not good

yeah you know somebody asked me a question on Twitter I didn't actually answer it fully but you know he's like hey you seem to be real black and white about good or evil but I think there's a lot of shades of gray in there and and I totally agree of course. I mean there's there's massive amounts of shades of gray in good and evil and then at some point you get to evil yeah that you go from like hey this is bad to evil and you go from you know hey that's pretty nice to good yeah those those are things that exist yeah and you want to keep your kids you know out of the evil yeah right and if you waste all your leadership capital trying to

push them from doing okay into good and doing the best and you're gonna wear you're gonna wear it all out in my opinion if there's some parents that have done a better job than me that's awesome and they were able to just to keep their kid 5.0 in every category across the board for their whole existence without the kid turning into a crazy you know rebel because that's what happens to some kids that get pushed that hard yeah yeah i think that whole again that whole leading by example thing man is like as long is you're consistent and lead by example they can see you know they'll see the benefits play out right in front of their face yeah but man these again you can't you can't be like hey clean your room meanwhile the rest of the house including your room is messy and i tell you to clean your room

all the time you're never doing no how's this so one of my friends uh one of my best friends named Scotty Lewis he's a cop by the way you know on the big island so this guy would um he was never my roommate but you know I go to his house a lot of time and he was real like clean clean he's super clean guy

and he'd get kind of mad not mad but just uncomfortable when things are dirty you know so you know if he has a roommate or something like that and I remember thinking dang bro scuddy you're real sensitive about that whole thing you know being clean and they're like for real clean clean a clean

clean. Not a clean freak necessarily, but almost. Borderline. Borderline, yes. So, um, and just from knowing them and stuff, I knew that his parents they would like, you know, clean his room and stuff like that. Not all the time or nothing like that, but

they were involved in cleaning and stuff. So it kind of went opposite to what I thought. You know how like if your parents tell, if you got taught to clean your room from a young age and you had to do it the whole time. Yeah. I always thought that yeah, that, that that would carry over when you're out of the house and you go to college,

you go live on your own that you'd clean your room all the time. I thought that that was kind of it. But I started to hypothesize that that's not it. This is what it is. If your parents provide an environment of extreme cleanliness, whether you do it or they do it or both or whatever, but the environment is consistently clean, when you leave that environment,

that'll be what you're used to. So it'll mess with you if it's not. And that's ensuring, Enough. We went to the big island, you know, cruise with him. And we go to his house and it's like a museum, just spotless clean, not his, his parents' house. And I remember thinking like, yeah, that my little theory, I think, is correct. Yeah. Like, if you're used to cleanliness. Did his parents help him clean or not? Yes, fully. So here. And here's the thing about it. Because because you could also get the kid that the parents are neat freaks and the kid rebels and just becomes a slob. Yeah. So, and yeah, maybe. And I'm sure there's all kinds of. the circumstances that maybe do that, I'm sure. But I mean, generally speaking, the environment that you get used to functioning in. And also, there's parents that are slabs that the kids are very neat and orderly because they don't like that.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, maybe. And again, these are all, you know, I'm sure there's so many. I've never encountered that. Well, my, I think the key is here, what you can't do is just try and push them like crazy. You just have to guide them in what is correct. And what you have to really show is like the benefits.

Yeah, of why it's good to keep things in order. Yeah, you know, if you're gonna spend an hour looking for your car keys just think of your productivity at that point. It's no. Yeah, yeah, so you got to watch out for that. Yeah, but yeah, that was my little hypothesis. I think it's true though, because think about like think about just the environment of the the consistent environment that you kind of that someone will come from they always in a way sort of for lack of better term create recreate that environment or try to when they leave so like you know how like kids they come from a chaotic people yell all of yeah they're gonna probably yell a lot or let's say they don't yell let's say they'd never swear right like I grew up in a household and they don't swear and swearing's like not that good when they go out they won't just start swearing though they'll be sensitive to swearing for sure you know for sure so I think that again if if the environment is provided consistently I think that's that's gonna have a big consistency goes a long way

I think it's the number one thing. Sarah Armstrong always says that. Yeah, I agree with a thousand million percent. Be consistent. Right, even like small little things, like, for my daughter, for example, it's, the routine is, when it's time to go to bed, it's brush teeth. We do stories and questions, which is like just, you know, some stories that I made up. And then questions, like basically a quiz. It's like rudimentary education, like solar system stuff.

And you make it like a game show quiz. So it's fun. And then Bedtime. That's it. And sleep. 100% No deviation unless we're outs.

Yeah. But that's how you roll. That's the routine consistent. So now I don't get any pushback. And my daughter is a pushback. She is. Master. She got a strong will.

The consistent stuff, she just knows. She just go. You can be playing. She's got a little spark to her. Yeah. Actually, she's got a lot of spark to her. Yeah.

Got it from mom. Yeah, there's just a ton of you know I as I was going through these I don't remember where I let read the You know I don't remember where I read this letter for the first time from Milada Orakova but there's so much Good stuff in there choose your friends carefully I mean just look just when she's kicking it off You know life is hard. It does not pamper anybody that's a good good thing for kids to understand yeah you know welcome to life it's gonna be hard get a custom to it but don't let it defeat you boom yeah that changing of your

opinion one was yeah yeah and admitting when you're wrong like hey if I made this if I made if I had the wrong theory that's okay yeah in light of new information new information here we go I'm changing that's okay I always kind of freaked me out with politicians I think we've had this conversation we've had this conversation before politicians people say oh he's a flip flop flip flopper And that's a negative thing. It's a negative thing if the person is flip-flopping just to get votes. Yeah.

But if new stuff comes to light and they say, you know what? I kind of changed my opinion on that one. Yeah. Yeah. Or the culture shifts, man. Like there's certain things that's even, I mean, back to your thing with the short shorts. That's, I mean, the point here is a little bit different. But you have to contend with cultural shifts.

That's a new reality for me. Like in, in Hawaii, for example, when I grew up like just the swimsuits were, you know, sure, you wear bikini but it's like a normal bikini so I come I go to college I come here I move here I go back this is like you know 10 11 years later I'm noticing the bikinis in there it's just way less material and I'm like dang this they're showing a lot but everyone's just you know little kids and stuff like I'm okay and my younger brother who lives there he said that's just how it is now it's like man you you wouldn't have got away so that's that's some stuff that I had to like go okay I'm not going to expend a bunch of leadership capital fighting not just my kids

but fighting culture as a whole yeah that's what but then there's things that cross the line right yeah I'll tell you what is it's you wearing those short shorts that's crossing the leg you don't want to see me in those short shorts no you don't want to have that happen so um like I said a ton of good information from Captain Isaacson from Dr. Horrokova but you know speaking of learning and teaching and questioning. Speaking of question time. Sure.

I think we got a little question time to contend with. Yep. A little Q&A. Yeah, might as well. So let's ask Jocko some questions. Let's do that. I like your answers to questions, Jock. See, that's kind of the good thing

about knowing your phone number. Uh-huh. I can just text you with questions. Like, first my own questions. A gross mismanagement. of your time it is potentially however I'm pretty quick to answer yeah abruptly and short answers yep because you pretty much know what the answer is gonna be I do and sometimes you just need that backup and that's or that that that that

reinforcement you know you know how like you're like man I really have having this issue with myself or whatever like I'm gonna I'm gonna ask Jocco I mean because it's real I'm really confused not confused but you know I'm really I need the I don't have you. I'm really one. I'm gonna ask Jocco and you can be texting Jocko the answer or the question and you're like, I know the answer. Like as I'm reading this question to Jocko, it kind of puts it into.

Yeah, yeah, so I don't send it. So you get about maybe a third and like a quarter of the questions that I actually had had for you. Yeah. That's good. Yeah man. So you know, the Jockle effect is real. Question number one.

Jocco. I keep trying to ask around my BJJ school if anyone follows. LOS S and C program. Dude, now you just abbreviated S and C. You know what that is, right? No. Oh,

it's strength and conditioning. Okay. Sure. A hundred percent. That's like a known thing. That's a known thing, especially for someone that's jacked like yourself. I know.

That's into strength and condition. I don't write. I've never seen that. Yeah. That's a real thing. Maybe I don't write that. Maybe I just do it. Oh, credit.

Just kidding. Credit. I drop. You can go home now. Anyway, I'm asking around my Jiu-Jitsu school, if anyone follows a strength and conditioning program for comps, which is competition.

Very good. Nicely done. You're up on things. Everyone keeps telling me to just roll for strength and conditioning. What do you think about that? Okay, so rolling is obviously the base. Sure. Right?

You need to roll. And that has to, this doesn't mean include rolling. Like we're going to go roll however it works out. It means rolling with. rolling with some kind of structure around it so you get your short rounds You got to get your long rounds

You got to get your shark tanks you got to get your positional drilling You got to get your consequence free drills like Dean Lister makes us do Consequence free drills where you're gonna start in a position where you might get tapped out but it doesn't matter Right, right or you're gonna start a position where you might lose position but you're gonna do it anyways and and then Glover That's what Dean does actually Glover does the Consequence drills where you're already like starting in the arm lock Yeah, yeah. That you're letting a person take your arm and you're starting there and you're just gonna see what you can get out of it or start in the triangle not the triangle Yeah, that's some Jeff Glover

Yeah, we did that too. Yeah, crap right there But it's good for you. It's good. So you got to you got to do that you know and the short rounds by short rounds. I mean short intense rounds Yeah, right? If you, my attitude in a three minute round is completely different than my attitude in a 20 minute round or even, I mean, the ultimate. And believe it or not, my attitude in a 20 minute round is different from my attitude in a no time limit round. Really? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. Especially because in regular training, even if you get the submission, if I submit you in form. I still got him to do another 16. So I might go all hard for four minutes and get the submission, but then I got to go another 16 minutes now. So I'm gonna I'm gonna have some tactical now if we're now what's different is if it's no time limit After four minutes I get you work we're kind of done. We can go again Yeah, but we're also we can just be done right got you but if you get them in one minute

We're probably going again. Yeah, it's like an unbigure Actually four minutes is probably going again too, but like eight minutes. So I might I might not submit you in one minute or even four minutes because I want to get you to a point where I know I'm just going to have to do this one dive Yeah, yeah The psychology But so yes, you have to roll now But you still need to get stronger right in a classic example this is a big Andy big Andy Burke right Great jiu, but he wasn't super strong

Yeah, and I was I said to him hey, start doing pull-ups start doing push-ups and dips and squats just start to him and he did He listened to me and in a matter of a month he felt completely different because he wasn't working out He was just rolling and he was rolling hardcore but just rolling compared to actually getting stronger And then he went on to Powerlifting and Olympic lifting and and now it's like okay I got to contend with actual Strength and power here so that that definitely makes a difference you know his skill was getting better but it wasn't I was feeling his skill getting better You know, but we're all getting better at the same time, but all of a sudden, they started getting stronger. So strength that's the strength part, right? Now the conditioning part, same thing. Jiu Jitsu allows you to rest and that's actually a positive attribute of your Jiu Jitsu game if you can rest while you're doing it. Yeah, right? That's one of the good that's that that proves that you know what you're doing now

That's actually a negative when it comes to working out because if you do something like a row or a bike or a bike or a a sprint or a MedCon workout on a timer there ain't no mercy slacking is not rewarded you're you're you're you're racing against the clock and so those things are gonna push you faster for longer periods of time harder than just a roll well so bottom line for strength and conditioning in jiu jitsu yeah you got to do jiu jitzu for got to be your base and then you've got to do strength training to get stronger and that's deads and squats and cleaning jerks and snatches and overhead squats and all the key lifts and do that means doing singles and doubles and fours and fives and sets of

20 I mean it means getting stronger and then you got to work your metabolic conditioning and how do you do that you go hard you go metabolic condition You do you do met cons right you mix in lighter weights doing more repetitions Short and you got to mix up the rounds too going short rounds long rounds to bot do you know what tabata is? Yes The tabata protocol I don't know the exact is there exact number there is an exact number the exact number for the tabata protocol Sure 30 30 nope 20 seconds of work 10 seconds of rest okay so for me that's like the shortest round rounds you're doing is 20 seconds of work 10 seconds of rest then you got also do long rounds and then you do you know a lot of times I do three on one off for rounds That's a boxing right a lot of times I'm doing five on one off

That's MMA and then above that you start to get to jiu jih Tzitsu which is ten minutes one off But what's interesting is if you're doing a ten minute round and then one off and then another ten minute round and the one off That blurs into one big round So a lot of times when we got a guy that's competing black belch or a or he's doing a 20 minute fight or a 10 minute fight a 10 minute, 10 minute grappling match, one round of 10 minutes or one round of 15 minutes, you got to have him take a bigger break in between sometimes during the training so that they're actually coming in there fresh and they can work through the problem again. Otherwise, they're just going through the one hour roll level the whole time, which is not good for him. and obviously you got to learn technique you gotta practice technique

because jiu jitsu is what's gonna win and like I just had somebody hit me up on social media and they said because I told a story at some point on this podcast about rolling with a black belt girl for the first time

is the first time I ever rolled with the actual black belt girl and I was thinking oh you know I better bring my A game a little bit so I don't get caught here and then as soon as I started rolling with it was like that's not happening And the guy says, Does this mean that you can't defeat a stronger opponent with Jiu-Jitsu?

And I said, no, absolutely. I watch girls lighter, weaker girls, tap out bigger, stronger guys on the regular. But what that situation was, not only was I bigger and stronger, but I'm also skilled at Jiu-Jitsu. Yes. So it doesn't apply.

Yeah. And there's this element of Jiu-J-Zitsu, and this actually kind of goes back to Andy When you get Andy with his His skill and technique And then you add some strength and conditioning to it It's like you know

So what you do if you don't have if you're not Big and Strong You can't really bully anyone on the mat And bully I don't mean bully bully I mean like you can't just turn on this like You're saying if you're not if you're not Yeah And strong yeah have you ever seen Jeff Glover Bully people because I have well he bullies in in a different way

Yeah so So and that's what I mean by bully like you can't just impose your Strength on someone well I'm gonna have to disagree with you you can impose your technique yeah I think yeah I mean Jeff Glover will bully guys on the mat if they're out of line for sure yeah but in it's in a different kind of way so you're talking about you well you can't go strength you can't just start bullying physically bullying yeah you have to technically bully yes so so accept that yeah so let's say your technique is is is similar And but you have straight up weight strength and conditioning. Yeah, it really plays a big factor for sure and Sure and not to say that you'll be able to necessarily tap the guy out, but him trying to tap you out when you have strength Conditioning and size it's like it just gets real hard. No for sure and unless you well you the key component there that you mentioned is that I have to have similar Yeah, because you can be a two hundred and thirty five pound

like guy super strong athlete and if you don't know jujitsu Jeff Glover's gonna wrap you up like you don't even know what's happening he's 150 pounds yeah yeah yeah and he and I've seen him with that obviously with what roughly 100% certainty with yeah yeah you know even beyond roughly 100% it is really really close to 100% yeah if you don't know jiu jitzu 245 pound muscle head yeah going against Jeff Glover you're getting tapped out even if you do know jujitsu there's a there is a thing there is a video I think is Crappler's quest I think it's still online right now yeah Jeff Glover goes against this huge guy yeah for sure I think he was maybe that guy

knew some some level of jiu jitsu fighter yeah it was a jujitsu match yeah and oh man it's yeah it's just crazy to watch and that was when Jeff was like 13 or something yeah and he was crazy back to fight he's still crazy but yeah um yeah so the girl you know the girl thing and I remember that question was on Twitter right yeah like hey doesn't jiu jitsu allow you yes yeah so again yeah perfect exact I mean that that's the answer there because yeah you have all this experience but you know how like how we always talk about like when you lock up with someone you know you can get a really good idea of what they're about to bring to you yeah unless it's james nielsen then you lock up and you're like what is about this should be pretty easy oh i'm getting

swept yeah you're not just happened for sure for sure there are exceptions for sure but Generally speaking, you know, even just not even beyond just strength. Strengthen in their grip and their rigidity and their, you can feel the, you can feel the either like they're relaxed. To me, that's an indicator. Yeah. Like someone that just like, they feel relaxed. You're like, okay, this is, this guy probably knows what he's doing. Yeah.

Because the person that doesn't know what they're doing, they're going all psycho. Yes, doing, making like little micro moves that are incorrect. You know? Yeah. Just even putting their foot right there. It's like, bro, your foot should not be right there right now. Kind of thing. Yeah, you can tell real quick.

Yeah, so, but it does go into the strength part as well. So, like, you know, when you grab someone's wrist or they grab your wrist or something like that, you're like, okay, because a lot of jujitsu, this is weird. A lot of jujitsu is knowing what's important and what's not important. For sure. So, you know, these. That's not just, you're not just, you know, with, with kids and with being a leader. And you want to expend your leadership capital trying to get your, trying to get your team

to do something that's not really, truly necessary. Yeah. That's not going to help your cause. Yeah, it'll jam you out. It's not gonna help you in jiu-jitsu if you're focused on something that's not important and to know what's important and what's not is very important as a leader as a parent and is on the jiu-jitsu player Matt Yes of justice and very hard by the way it takes like a lot of experience Yeah, you consider these guys who are like if you do a light role with a really really high level guy That's when you can start to see okay this guy really thinks that this arm position is really important because he'll he'll fight till the death to kind of maintain it and

You know, so, but what, just back to the girl real quick, the girl situation, when you lock up with someone strength wise, you know, you feel like I said, you, what they're about to bring. So again, and when you have the more experience you have, the more you're going to know with like more accuracy. And I think that's what you mean. And actually this point of taking that point and transferring it into leadership is so critical. And I'll tell you, I am really good at knowing what's important and what's not. And just. And you can see people that get all spun up about things and You know just okay they're spun up about something it's the same thing with family life You know your your wife gets all spun up about something like what are we gonna do We're gonna keep doing what we're doing and we're gonna be okay you know oh you oh you want to focus all your time and energy on that That's fine go ahead you know that's cool I'll support you and you can make it happen But you know think about how important something really is when you're getting spun up about something Yeah just think about how important it really is and

There's a good chance it's not that important. There's a really good chance it's not that important. There's usually four or five things that are really important as a leader that you need to focus on. And that list, the further you go down that list, the less important things are. And I see leaders get spun up on things that are on the list number 47. And they're acting like it's the most important thing and it's going to ruin everything. And it's like, no, it doesn't not that big of a deal. Yeah.

So learn that. Is that why you wear the same clothes every day? You know I wear the same? Because fashion is not important. It's not important to me. Not for jobs. Those short rounds are good when you do short rounds in jujitsu. And they kind of trick you too.

Because like Jeff will do that. He'll be like, hey, three minute rounds. So you have this thing in your head like, oh, it's only three minutes. Just go hard. But meanwhile, you only got 30 seconds draft before you got to go again. So you're doing essentially a Metcon jiu-jitsu. And that's good. That is good.

For that kind of stuff. Yeah, man. It's good. Yeah, agree I like to say some guys say you don't need Strength and conditioning because you the more The any time you spend doing physical activity Should be on your jiu-jitsu they say that's interesting

I would Like to agree with that it sounds good But I would do if I'm gonna do Jiu-jitsu six hours a day I'd still do strength and conditioning for 20 minutes Half an hour 45 minutes That's one of the good things about Jiu-Jitsu You can have different philosophies and still be successful

Because there's that is true I think like I think it's Dillon Dennis or somebody. Marcel Marcel Garcia only does you. Yeah, I know. And Dean used to always try and convince me that. Yeah, yeah.

I'm just gonna do jiu-jitsu. Yeah. And I'd say no. Well, Dean's all crazy strong, though. Yeah, I know. He's such a weird. So it's kind of easy to say, oh, just jujitsu in my house. He's always just do jiu-jitsu.

I mean, just, I don't know. I don't do grip strength training. I can hold anything for six hours. Yeah. So check. All right. Next question. Jako, I have a question about leadership.

I'm a firefighter. And some of the guys on my department. have been pushing me to step up and put in for an officer's position. And I'm honored. But when we were going to a call, I was presented with an opportunity to lead and passed it up. I don't know what I was thinking.

I can't believe I did that. Did I just lose credibility? If I did, is there a was to get that back away? Right? That's what he meant. Yeah. If I did, is there a way to get that back? Thanks.

Okay, so first of all, this is just a general rule. If you want to lead, always be ready to lead, right? Be ready to step up. Make sure you're not stepping on people's toes, as always, but be ready to lead. And the way you do that is you think about you, what are you doing in certain situations. You should always be thinking about that. You should be thinking, even if you're a trooper or a follower in a certain situation, you should think, okay, how would I lead?

What would I do right now? What moves would I make? What would I do if a contingency happened right now and what are the possible contingencies that I could be looking at? What are they? And if you're thinking that as a as a Frontline guy when the opportunity pops up and just jump on it boom there you go Then when it does happen of course you got to stay detached because you want to make sure that you don't lead too far You don't overstep your bounds and step on toes. You got to be careful that so you need to live with that mindset and that will make you such a a better leader when the moment does come if

you're always thinking about if you're always watching like he talked about earlier I'm watching the leader I'm seeing what they're doing I'm seeing what I might do differently I'm still supporting them I'm supporting you if you're in charge I'm supporting you but I'm thinking I might do this and then you watch what would my what would the results of my decision have been compared to what they did so you you can be thinking like a leader even though you might not necessarily be in a leadership position so live With that mindset. That's what you need to do.

Now, as far as you passing up the opportunity to lead, which, yes, your admitting was an error, first of all, I'll say this. It's probably not quite as obvious to everyone else as it is to you in your mind. You're thinking, oh, man, I blew it. This was my chance. I bet the guys went back from that call

and didn't even think about it. Didn't even think about it again. Most likely, unless it was just some flagrant. I don't want to lead. I'm not ready. If you did that, well, then, yeah. People are gonna that but if you just said if you just kind of backed away from a moment and people people might have realized it But anyways regardless of that you probably guess what I'm gonna say then what you got to do is own it

Right you got to own it So when the opportunity presents itself to explain What happened and what went wrong and what you did wrong Right not making excuses But explain where you were weak you know so you say Hey guys you know Hey remember that last call I should have stepped up and I had the

Had the wrong mindset I wasn't ready to lead and I let not only to let you guys down I let myself down And I'm not gonna let that happen again from now on I'm gonna have leadership in the front of my mind That's what I'm gonna do I'm gonna be thinking about what needs to get done I'm rethinking about contingencies and how I'm gonna lead and I promise the next time this opportunity comes up

I'm gonna be ready to lead So I'm sorry for letting you guys down It won't happen again. Okay. That's that's it. Yeah. Boom. Mm-hmm.

Get the mindset. Live and think as a leader, regardless of what position you're actually in. And then when they call you and the opportunity presents itself, step up and lead. Obviously, that's your default mindset now. Yes. It seems obvious to me. It is. Truly was it always like that even before it's that story that I've told over and over again about being on an oil rig and coming up and guys not know where to go

And everyone freezing and and and me going okay. I'm just to step back and look around to make a call and when I did that that was it And so I when it clicked it clicked or I would say I guess I was thinking about it beforehand because I was you know observing my leaders and thinking about what they were doing and what I would do differently in a certain situation. Yeah Dang. Yeah, that's crazy because even in everyday life, which is what I represent, everyday life. But you know how your wife or girl, whatever, it's like, hey, you know,

what's the dinner situation? What do you want? Oh, I don't care. Whatever you want. You know, that's a time where I always feel this, what this guy just asked, you know? I mean, obviously it's nothing compared to his situation. But they're like, hey, well, you know,

what do you think for dinner kind of thing? I'm like, hey, I don't care. And that's really how I feel. I don't care. I'm kind of down for whatever kind of thing. But that's not why, that's not why she's asking me. She wants me, she wants me to make that decision. She wants me to take the lead.

She wants you to step up and lead. Step up and be like, this is what we're having for dinner. I'm going to go get her. I'm going to make it or whatever. That's what she wants. And really those little, that situation comes up all the time. That's a good point. Just like, you know, the old, actually,

that's kind of like a joke, you know, when a girl says, or when you ask a girl, hey, what do you want to eat? And she says, I don't care, whatever. And then you say, okay, we're going to go eat here. And I don't really like that. Of course. See, yeah, you got to, yeah, I feel like this guy when I do that. That's the point there.

So from now on, you're going to step up and lead. I'm going to do it. Yeah, but I want it to be my default is why. You know how? Like, yours is like your default. Like, oh, this is what we're doing. Yeah. Okay, you know what?

I wish that was true with it when it did come to dinner. Actually, you know what? It kind of is true because I only go to like three places to eat. Yes. And I go to one 80% of it. of the time. Yeah, same here. So the other 20% of the time. So if she says where you want to go, I'm going to say that my restaurant. Yeah. We're going to raglins and OB. But that makes it harder though. Wait, wait, does she like raglins? She does. Oh, okay. It makes it easier. Yeah.

But and if she doesn't feel like it, then she'll be like, I don't really want to go there. Okay, cool. Now it's on you. I gave you my vote. Right. Now you don't want to do that. But I think you still got to do it. You still got to make a decision you got to like because in a way I'm in the same boat as your second scenario there like if she's not in there so I'm just gonna name my secondary restaurant all right there you go maybe she'll say yes maybe she'll say no yeah that got to be my default now though all right step up and lead you know what I you know what I got to do I got to prepare I got to prepare myself well yeah I got to have like five options just ready to go on deck that's what I have three so that's not

Oh, yeah. One, two, three. And they all come in the same order. I must be really boring. Eh. Hey, you focus on what's important. That's good. Well, whenever my wife says, you know,

don't you ever want to try anything new? I say, nope. Yeah. I don't. I don't, yeah. Speaking of which, darling, you're my girl. I'm not looking to try anything new.

I'm happy with, I'm happy with having the same thing. Very happy. Yes. That's actually that I'm going to use that line right there. But what do you do when the team wants to try something new? All right, let's rock and roll. All right, let's do that.

All right. Good tips. All right, next question. Jocko, I'm a sergeant in my country's army. The reason that I'm sending you this message is because of a tragic incident in our unit. This week, a young enlisted soldier committed suicide. He shot himself with his issue rifle. This came as a shock to all of us.

He was a bright, smart, and happy guy. Damn. I'm seeking your advice, Jocco. Do you have any advice on how I, as a leader? Can talk to the guys about it how does a group of soldiers? Soldiers cope with a loss when the reason is so tragic Thank you and obviously condolences to The team the and the the the family of the soldier and I think what you have to do in this situation is you got to As a leader you got to bring this out in the open and I think one of the worst things you can do is pretend that it didn't happen

Pretend that the problem's going to go away And I think what you have to do is you have to explain it, which is weird because in this case Explaining it means admitting that you can't explain it Because you can't explain it Or you're not going to be able to or you're going to be making up something that you're guessing at right? You're not going to know what individual What what individual Situations caused this to happen

You know, because who can make sense of that? I mean a bright Smart happy guy and it doesn't make sense and and and and while you can't explain why you I think you have to address it as a reality and I think you got to address it as something that your platoon needs to fight against just like they would fight against the enemy What is the threat the threat is depression the threat is loneliness the threat is helplessness the threat is feeling like there's no way I out and being aware of those threats is what allows recognition of the enemy so that you can fight him

so I think you got to talk about this with your guys I think that they will become aware of what they need to look out for in others and in themselves so they can alert the platoon that you know John have you guys talked to Johnny man he seems you know Johnny seems a little off right now. We should check in on them. We should talk to him. Or self-recognition. Man, I'm feeling like depressed about something.

I'm feeling dark. It doesn't, I don't know what I'm going to do, right? And on that last podcast that we did, I read a couple excerpts in words from some various combat veterans. And I touched on the fact that several of them from different times. from different wars had written the same thing and they wrote basically that death would be liberating and that it would be an escape from the hell of war from the memories of war and and I should have hit on that harder because I think that what that means to me what that tells me is that is that having those thoughts doesn't necessarily mean that there's something wrong with you right it doesn't necessarily mean that you're losing it these you know the the the writings that I'm talking about the book and then the writing from a guy that I knew doesn't mean that you're losing it and I think that people think to themselves oh I'm I'm I'm thinking about how death would be an easier way right now and And they think that by thinking that they're totally screwed up when I think the realities that is or I even think the reality of the situation is that that's

Obviously a fairly normal thing to think about and you know I When I was in Ramadi I definitely I wasn't thinking about killing myself but I definitely saw that dying in combat would be a relief to the stress that I was under. No doubt. And I didn't want to die, but I'll tell you what,

we joked about it. I joked about it. I joked about it with Laif. I'd be like, hey, if we get in a firefight tonight, first thing I'm going to do is crack a green camel light on my chest

so the enemy knows exactly where I am. It's like, we're joking. Because we're under a lot of stress. But I think my, what I'm trying to say is that those feelings or those thoughts, Don't mean that you're done. They just mean that you're human. They just mean that you're human and I think if you keep them bottled up

Then they might explode So that's what I think you need to do if that's what I need to tell your men that these thoughts happen and that your platoon Your team needs to be on guard against them and the best way to be on guard is to be vigilant to look for the signs to look for behavior and talk about them and then be able to ask for help it's one of the big problems these guys don't want to ask for help because we're macho yeah I don't need help with anything where our egos are too big so we don't ask for help and so we have to put our egos in check we got to pay attention to each other and there's gonna be some people that you're gonna have to pry this out of them right

they're not gonna willingly talk about it so I think that's what you have to do so that you can get somebody some professional help. I'm not a psychiatrist, obviously, and in a normal infantry platoon, there's no psychiatrist in there. But you need to recognize because you're the first line of defense and how can you get that somebody

to a professional that can help them. And to be honest, this doesn't only apply to soldiers, right? It applies to everyone. Don't let these thoughts fester in your brain. You've got to get them out. You've got to put them out in the light. Right, you got to put them out in the light so they so they dry they're like a vampire

They dry up and they wither and they they turn to dust You know, that's what you want to do your expose them so you can get the professional help and get things under control So that's the leadership be straightforward with your troops tell them the truth Explain the enemy threat. That's what we're talking about and how you as a platoon are gonna look out for it and then obviously you got to grieve the loss you got to mourn your fallen comrade and then you also have to get back to work get back to soldiering get back to preparing for the enemy that you will face on the battlefield with with a new awareness that there's another enemy that can lurk inside the platoon and inside the individual and that you have to

protect each other just like you protect each other from a real enemy so that would probably be the the route that I would go good luck brother with that says a it's a hard one for sure next question jaco my leader is not an extreme ownership disciple among other things he's fostering division within our team how do I help lead those who no longer trust in the commander but are awesome guys who want to stay involved how do I bring them back into the fold without threatening our lead or our dear leader all right well first of all you got to become a buffer between your boss and your team that's what you need to do um try and absorb as much negativity as you can and make sure you don't spread that negativity right this and also this is a delicate

situation that we've talked about before If you completely support the boss and act like the boss is the greatest person in the world, the team is going to reject you or there's a high likelihood that they're going to reject you. At the same time, if you completely reject the boss, then you've actually aided in dividing the team. Because now the team is not aligned with the boss. So you have to balance. You have to balance this. And one of the best ways to do this is to put, listen to this, you've got to put the importance

of the mission and the team above the egos and attitudes so here's I'm gonna say something like look guys look guys I know we have our differences with the chain of command on some things but we have a job to do all right we have a mission to accomplish and even though we might not agree with the boss on everything it's our team it's our team and the performance of the team sure it reflects the boss but it reflects us too so what I say we do is a win let's let's win let's be the best regardless of what the boss does or what the boss says let's win to prove to prove that even with a situation where the leadership might be lacking a bit we're so good that we're gonna win anyways Who wants to get some of that, right? There you go.

Let's win despite poor leadership. That's what we're going to do. I'll tell you what, in my younger and maybe a little less politically savvy days, I would have said something like, let's win not just despite our leadership, but let's win to spite our leadership. Like we would just perform so well in the face of a horrible leader. We're gonna show everyone what was up the underdog Cinderella story we're gonna rock So that's cool you know sometimes you're you're winning

Not just despite your leadership but to spite them I've done that a couple times in my career not not the better not the best one It's better to win despite them so despite we got some rough leadership. It's okay And the other thing is you know You even when you're doing that with a bad leader you still got to be careful not step on the leader's toes And the way you do that is really easy, you give them all the credit. You give them all the credit, and that's great.

And that little nagging voice that you've got in the back of your head that wants credit, you know that one I'm talking about, that you go back there. Don't worry about that. I'm telling you right now, you will get the credit in the long run. You will get the credit. Don't worry about it.

You might not get the credit on this one or even this week, this month, maybe not even this year, but eventually you will get the credit and recognition. That you deserve that you want because your boss's boss He knows what's up He knows what's up And your troops know what's up

And so when everybody knows what's up when you have a truly bad leader the truly bad leader doesn't they're not they're not just Walking around fooling everyone in an organization. It's not happening It's not happening and if it does happen it doesn't happen for long It only happens. There's a limited time that it can happen for because every Every idiotic move that that leader makes down the chain of command at least one out of every five he does something stupid up the chain of command too And so how is that group performance so well? We know it's not the leader. He's an idiot Oh, they must have some good junior leadership in there. Who's those guys? Oh, that's Echo Charles. He's in charge of that squad and they're crushing it So don't worry about that just lead and win and give that credit away and it's going to come back to you tenfold

That's what you do kind of in a way goes back to like people are watching They're watching He's a poor leader he's a poor leader people are going to pick up on that Yeah and they're not gonna you know that doesn't mean that the boss's boss is boss is going to advertise that Right because the boss's boss they're a good leader Yeah so the boss's boss is going to come and undermine them Yeah No but when the time comes for a motion when the time comes for a

reorganization that's who's gonna be happening you know that's where the that's where the adjustments are gonna be made yeah that's a good point but we get so wrapped up we get the ego gets you yeah ego gets you yeah kind of watch out for that thing yeah to truly let it go when you don't get the credit and you for real think that you deserve the credit to truly let it go there's the challenge yeah that's a challenging one relish in that challenge laugh at it yeah You know, good. Boss, you did awesome.

Good job. Yeah, because I feel like anyway, when that does happen, you know, when something, and it's not even necessarily someone else gets the credit for what you did. It's just that, like, something big happened and it just went completely unnoticed that it was straight up because of you, right? That's a potential scenario. But let's say you don't say anything. I think that there is a small feeling of satisfaction that you're like, you know, you took

the high road and didn't say anything you know completely get that feeling maybe that's my ego yeah well look at me over here I'm not even saying anything I'm giving away so much credit I'm the man that's like the perfect amount of ego right or perfectly directed ego but because usually it's eclipsed by the fact that you didn't get your credit yeah usually yeah yeah for sure it's hard man I want the credit got to work on that check next question I have a question about the warrior I recently was dumped on a deployment and it's difficult now that I'm home state side. How does a warrior handle this? Is it like any other emotional loss?

I'm trying to use this loss and get after it and improve myself mentally and physically. I'm not sure how to properly submit questions to the podcast. All right. So the dear John letter, the old classic dear John letter. And, you know, agree. Sometimes you can keep it at bay when you're deployed. But then when you get home and you get back to the places the familiar places where you have the specific memories That's that's where the pain starts to come in and that's fine you know that's that hurts that's we get that

But in my opinion I've said this before The person that you built in your mind The person that you had a relationship with that you built in your mind That person doesn't actually exist they're not real they're not real she wasn't who she appeared to be And she isn't who she appeared to be she isn't the sweet understanding fun person that you cared so much about that's not her That's your memory. That's what you built in your head. She is actually the selfish Self centered person that cares about herself first and doesn't care about you that's the reality

And that's fine but a lot of times the pain that we feel isn't based on the reality it's based on the fantasy so you're feeling pain of losing something that wasn't real so let the fantasy go remember that she is not the perfect person that you built in your mind period she's not otherwise we wouldn't be in this situation right now and then move on brother Get after it work out train hard go to jit-to-hike run play guitar just get after it And those things not only gonna distract you from the pain which is good They're gonna improve you as a human being which is good and they're gonna rebuild your confidence

Which is good they're gonna make you feel good They're gonna make you stronger and smarter and better and put you into a place Where you don't need that little made-up fantasy anymore and They're gonna put you in a place where you're gonna find something better than the fantasy now I'm gonna tell you right now the fantasies don't exist The perfect girl or guy for you doesn't exist They don't exist So you're gonna be out looking for someone that's good, but you're not gonna find perfect don't get obsessed with finding perfect If you find someone that's perfect it's it's not true

Everyone's got their flaws So that's what you have to do and you will end up finding someone that's real and I get it man I know you're gonna have some moments down in the hole as Allison Chains put it or Trapped in the heart shaped box as Nirvana put it or so lonesome you could cry as Hank Williams senior put it is it you notice a theme here this is what people go through but those feelings they're temporary so let them say hi let them hang around for a minute or for half an hour an hour or whatever and then kick them out kick those feelings out get them out of there and go

do something else take your mind away from those memories of fantasies and put build some good memories that are real and yeah you know what you can use your anger and your frustration to fuel positivity for sure I spent much of my youth doing that very thing for sure all those breakups yeah I turn those things into into fuel and the other thing I'm telling you is if if you take action with your body your mind's gonna follow and pretty soon you'll be on to the next chapter and you can move beyond this bad fantasy chapter that you kind of got roped into Man shicking girls man

They can get you every time if you let them It's so hard to I mean with so many times You know because when I was a Assistant Patoon commander a platoon commander a tasking to commander what I was doing right? But more in the earlier phases right because once I was you know a tasking to commander I was dealing with a lot less those those problems that would come to me on a relationship level would be something big You know divorce Custody of children

Some kind of domestic violence scenario like real things but when I was younger and I was in a seal platoon That's when you're dealing with guys going through the breakup with the girl and that you know the The method messing with my head man. Yeah, it's messing with my head man. Yeah, of course every guy goes through that Me you ever that's the way it is you get that weird thing kicking around in there and you start getting crazy And what's so funny is what's so funny is When you're on the outside of it, it's so like when you're in the heart-shaped box yourself, you just can't see anything else. It's just devastating. And everyone that's looking at you is like, bro, let's just go to the bar tonight.

You'll meet 17 new girls tonight. Yeah. But I might come back. That was my girl. That was my special girl. No, it's not. I remember, I kind of had a, this is kind of evil, but I had a kind of a standard response to guys when they'd say, you know, hey, you know, I broke up with Jennifer last night. I'd be like oh sweet man let's let's roll I would always and I even carried that honestly

This is like not something I don't think I would do anymore, but even when guys would be like Hey man me and Jennifer are getting divorced I'd be like oh right on bro Congrats let's rock and roll you know I kind of and and part of it was just to kind of spin it like guys man It's not the big deal. It's not the you need you need you know you don't just wallowing it right? You're getting divorced. Okay Here's what you need to do. Here's how you maneuver. But let you know what are you gonna do you're gonna get dragged down by that into that admire or you gonna you know salvage what you can of your life and let's move on let's rock and roll Yeah so that's again it might be a little harsh I don't know that I would still have that react Maybe with maybe if I was still in the juice you know and most in 99 I had one guy that that that in I probably said that to

We have a high divorce rate in the seal team. Yeah It's like an 85 90% divorce rate so I've said this to quite a few individuals over the year. I only had one that ever kind of, you know, was like, no, man, you don't get it. And I said, no, actually, I do get it. You don't get it. Yeah. And it always is a little rougher when there's kids involved and all that. So that would put another little horrible spin on it. But the bottom line is, that is a good attitude to have. Hey, broke up with my girl right on. I'm glad I got out of this relationship before it developed a to something where I did have hooks in me.

Yep. Financial hooks, children, all those things. I made it out, Scott Freep. You know, oh, I'm getting divorced. Oh, you have any kids? No. Okay, rock and roll. Yeah.

You got kids? Okay, well, how's it gonna go? You know, what are you put in line? You know, so definitely hard. Here's a question. Have you ever gotten your heart broken? Negative. You haven't straight up.

Even in high school. I was a boy. Boys get their heartbroken. When, when, tell me. Oh, you know, 10, 11, 12. I'm talking like 21-ish time. Because you know when you're 10, it's like. Okay, 15, 14, 17, 13.

I mean, I think once I was, see, once I was in the SEAL teams, I kind of had that coping mechanism. Yeah, yeah. Because you're in the teams now. Got to be hard. Yeah. And the girls are like, hmm. Yeah, you know, you gotta just kind of, but yeah, the young, that's, you know, the younger days for sure. Every guy goes through that and that's what that's what's hard.

And you know what? I'm saying guys specifically, but the girls are the same way. Both guys and girls go through these horrible breakups. When you, and this is the other thing that we got to realize as parents when you're 16 years old, we, you know, I look at my 15, 16, 17 year old daughters, right, as they were grown up. And and I think, oh, they got a boyfriend. Whatever. He'll be, this guy is meaningless. In their lives, I factually know that these guys are meaningless.

Yeah. In terms of the broad spectrum of their life. Yeah. But guess what? When you're 15 years old and you got a boyfriend, that is your whole life. And so when something goes sideways, I had to say, oh, I had to remember that myself. When I saw my daughter's distraught over something, I'd say, okay, here's what's going on. This is her whole life, and I try to explain to him.

This guy, I understand that you like him and that he was good and blah, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, let's remember you're only 15 and you're going to meet another nice guy and there'll be other opportunities and blah, blah, blah. But, of course, it barely, barely gets through to their heads. Yeah, fully. They can't even imagine a nicer guy, a different guy, no. Because he's the bad. Oh, yeah. And so, yeah.

Dang, boo. Yeah, you're on question restriction from now on. No, bro. I wanted to know. I think we all wanted to know. Next question. Jocco. What's your take on false motivation versus authentic leadership?

Okay, false motivation versus authentic leadership. Now, there's two kind of, um, two kind of ways of understanding this question the first is from like a really heavy leadership perspective and that is of trying to lead without actually believing in what you're doing and that's leading without understanding why and not believing in what you're doing and that's wrong right and this is in extreme ownership of course and we talk about on the podcast you can't do it if you don't believe in what you're doing your team's gonna see that and they won't believe in it either which means they're not

going to go above and beyond to accomplish the mission period so you got to believe what you're doing and if you don't believe it then you got to ask the question up the chain of command find out why understand why so you believe in what you're doing and eventually you're going to get the answer right eventually you're going to understand why you're doing something you're going to believe in it or you're gonna you're gonna convince the chain of command that that's not a good method and you need to go a different direction and there might be some rare in extremist case where you actually don't you know you're I'm being told to do

something and I don't believe in it and I'd say no I'm not gonna do it in like Napoleon said Napoleon's maxims if you you you actually have to refuse to do it if you don't believe it's the right thing to do then you don't do it that should be a very in extremist because our as a leader when we're being asked to do something or told to do something or led in a certain way They're leading us towards victory Right? They're leading us towards an aligned victory If it's on the battlefield, it's winning the war if it's in business. It's creating profit and creating a good product and

And and growing the business right those things are That's what you're trying to do so if echo if I'm the boss and you come to me with a with Something and say hey, I want to do this If it's gonna make us more profitable, why would I say no? Right? So we're going to move in that direction um so from a high level false motivation doesn't work if you don't believe in something it's not gonna work out for you now from a micro level from like a front line level and the buds instructors used to joke

about this that false met of motivation is better than no motivation have you ever heard that is that a common expression no false motivation is better than no motivation and we don't want that to be true right because we want motivation to be this pure golden thing that fuels performance but the fact the matter is and of course we talk about all this all the time motivation doesn't hold up right motivation doesn't know how many motivated people motivated people didn't make it through seal training a ton of them they're all motivated you how many of them didn't make it through training a ton how many motivated people do you see that don't accomplish their goals that they have

Right? The world is full full with those people. There's a ton of those people. Yeah And that's because motivation doesn't hold you up. We all know this. It's discipline that holds you up. It's discipline that gets things Going and it's discipline that gets you through things But this is an interesting little spin if you have the discipline to press on Why not have a little fun with it right and that's where I think false motivation can can come in and you can make some things fun For instance, it's cold, wet, and miserable, and we have to go swim over the beach and do an operation. Let's get some. Right?

Sure. Or it's 118 degrees with massive humidity, and we have a 14 kilometer patrol to get to target. Let's get some. Right? Who ya. Or the water is 41 degrees, and we are about to launch on a four-hour dive. Right? Hell yes, let's do this, right?

That's false motivation, but it's backed up by discipline, and it might not be real, but it absolutely beats the hell out of, this is going to be miserable that I don't want to do it. Right, what would you, if you and I were going to go do something that was going to suck, would you rather have me say, uh, echo, I really don't want to do this, but I'm disciplined, so I'm going to do it? Or would you have rather have me say, echo, this is going to suck. Let's go get some right you rather have the false motivation

Yes sir strap on the pack and put on the mask and fins and fire up the false motivation After it now I will tell you this I wouldn't even be sarcastic with false motivation I wouldn't even blink and I actually my this is the difference my my false motivation My my false motivation is even false I actually believe my own false motivation Yeah, it's working and by the time stuff came out of my mouth. I meant it I I meant it so I don't know at some point in my childhood False motivation turned into like an actual fuel and just just regular motivation

Maybe it's because I realized that I wasn't counting on it to get me through things I was just having fun with it rock and roll Do you think also how you know you like you'd always say that you were kind of into just being hardcore Even in like normal stuff Being hardcore for sure whatever So you know when you think back and you're like okay. I'm gonna take the hard route or whatever After you finish it you kind of feel more proud of it for sure like do you think that that played into it? Yeah That is like I can be yeah for sure for sure be more hardcore

Yeah yeah like I said like the meaning of the meaning of the music hardcore when I was a kid was being hardcore Yeah just the actual meaning of the word and so yeah it's real easy to go from that to like hey I'm gonna do something that sucks and I'm gonna have a good time with I'm gonna laugh about it Yeah and it is contagious Yeah, it's so contagious I'm actually not like that now and if if you're gonna do something that sucks and if What'd you say you're gonna like that now? No, I'm actually like that now. Oh, okay. Not to you know hundred percent, but in a lot of things, man. Like my, um, my daughter, she's four. She weighs 45, 47 pounds. So I'll be sitting or I'll be laying on the couch. Not paying attention. She'll climb up on the couch behind and jump and land like you know what a knee drop is. Yeah, atomic knee drop. Yes. For a while, just so you know, for a while in my house, there was no rule. In my house. Actually, there was no, there was only two rules in my house when my kids were like When my older kids were like, you know Seven six whatever that those types of ages that your daughter's out right now, but a little bit older

There was two rules in my house number one don't touch me when I'm eating Number two no atomic knee drops Because they would do it to each other. Oh yeah, I didn't mind them doing it to me, but they would atomic knee drop each other Yeah, so I had to have two rules and plus I wouldn't have a lot of time to eat And all of a sudden it's like they want to hold on my arm No, no, no, no, no, no, get away from you when I'm eating like a rabid dog And it's funny one of them the reason that's fresh in my mind because we were just on a trip and and you know my kids were explaining to my youngest daughter that

Well, you know when we were little Dad was meaner And he wouldn't let us touch him when we were when he was eating like you just did Yeah, yeah And of course I said well that's because she's cuter than you all of you I don't mind atomic knee drops anymore because of you

because of the very reason like you gotta be hardcore it's because like okay you got a four year old kid yeah right so think of how fun that is for her to atomic knee drop you which is another reason why I'm like this now so she'll climb on the couch atomic knee drop while I'm not ready by the way

onto my ribs so she didn't break my ribs she didn't injure me to any lasting degree But if the normal mindset is like, why did you jump? Why did you do that? It hurt. Yeah. Let's face it, 45, 47 pounds, top of a couch, atomic knee drop, both knees, by the way, all the weight.

You know, velocity, all that stuff. Hurt by the normal standard of things. So the typical mindset, I think, would be like, don't do that, especially the shock and all this stuff. But default is just like, whatever. Do it. Do it harder. And yeah, sure, it is a cash to one too because she will and does.

But she thinks it's all fun and all this stuff. But yeah, that's that mindset and that came directly from you. Like, B.R. It's like, Jocka wouldn't complain about that right there. Oh, you'm gonna let that happen. Yeah, it's really embarrassing if you complain to your four-year-old daughter.

Yeah, you hurt me. You hurt me. About anything. Yeah. Right? About anything. I agree. That's the setting example you were talking about earlier.

Yeah. You complain about anything and you're wrong. Agree. You know? So just suck it up. Yeah. Say bring it on. Yeah.

False motivation. which becomes real motivation, which for the only, like I said, the only sort of reason for motivation for me is just funny. Just funny. It's not gonna actually get you to do anything, but just let's have fun. I'm gonna do it anyways.

I'm gonna let the atomic knee drops happen over and over again. And so why, when I could go through life, just experiencing them and accepting them, why not have some fun with the atomic knee drops and the long cold dives and those hot weather and the, you know, dehydration, and the hypothermia. Why not have fun with all those things?

Yeah. And I mean, you probably know, but it's unbelievable how much that helps yourself. You know what? I think maybe because my view of motivation is so low, that to me it's just funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like false motivation is just funny.

Yeah. And it, but it is fun. Yeah. It's a fun thing. Yeah, that's all that, and that's kind of part of what I mean. Okay, so that, you know, the mats. I don't know if you noticed. I brought the mats in here.

Yes, I did. Whatever. So those mats there, I think just like 16 of them. I forget how many, but they cover a full two car garage. It covers it perfectly. It's a lot of mats and the two inch thick ones. So to move them, you know, up the, you know, the topography. Is that even?

So you had like some legit challenge. No, yeah. And I'm not even saying that. Here, here. This is what happened. You got after it. So I came in. Put the mats right there.

Boom. I don't know, whenever the other day. And then, you know, I walked to Jade's office, my brother. You know, he was like, oh, hey, what are you doing here? I was like, oh, just put the mats in here. He's like, you put the mats in here? What? Do you, do you, what, did someone help you with that?

I looked at him in the eye and I said, I don't need help. Oh. But it was a joke because that's a line from this thing. Oh, I know. But the point there is just that attitude, you know, like, no, I don't need help. No, I don't, you know, because I'm trying to be like jaco, you know, fucking hardcore. I don't need help Little kids can't hurt me

You know it's like that mindset You know it's like that mindset is chin You're turning into a complete savage Little kids can't hurt you And you can carry the mats by your own Yeah and you're by your own That's another thing That's another little expression

I used because my son When he was could before he could talk well He would see when he would want to do something He'd say let me he'd say I do it by my own Right right He's trying to say by myself or on my own Yeah

Mixed it by my own So that became that became a thing here's a legitimate one that that just changed it changed This specific thing where you know how I'd like I'd be the kind if I didn't get enough sleep I just I'd let it ruin me mentally So if I didn't have something specific like I'm important to do so just throughout the day oh I'm tired you know whatever So now I never admit that I'm tired ever so that's a good great starting place yeah I've explained that I've explained that to my My son is is you just don't admit ever that don't let those words come out of your mouth Yeah tired. I'm sore I'm whatever just just stop

Yeah, when you get in the teams you that's just that's just up putting up a red flag of being a complete pansy Don't do it. I know, man Don't do it as a matter of fact, you know what's jacked up is like I won't even Let's say you and I were to go out. Let's say it was wintertime and you and I were to go out and I had a sweatshirt with me Mm-hmm because I knew it might get cold right but we're out already and I have the sweatshirt in my hand You can't put it on. I won't even put it on. You can't put it on. Yeah, yeah.

Because then you might say, were you cold? I'm cold. I mean some warmth. Yeah, yeah. Oh, dang, that's a good one. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to do that too. Or should I say not do that?

Yeah. Bro, I don't know. Remember that? I think I told this story before. Remember time we were driving from L.A.? It was like late at night. And you're like, yeah, I know I'm this big bad team guy or whatever, but I'm kind of tired right now.

And then almost like you just. It was painful to let the words out of your mouth. You know, like you let them slip and it really hurt you. So it was like maybe like three seconds later. You said, but fuck it, I'll just drive to Montana if I have to right now. I'll just get in the month. I'm going to team guy mode. I won't tell them, buddy.

I was tired yesterday. I was driving. And my wife says like, are you haven't been sleeping much? Are you okay to drive? I was like, yeah. And I actually did the same thing. I was kind of like, well, I'm super tired. I can drive indefinitely.

Yeah, yeah. I don't know, though, though. I mean, you, I don't know. Maybe you're different. Maybe not. No, I actually, no, I don't encourage people doing that. Yeah. Don't encourage it.

That's a horrible thing to do is drive when you're super tired. Yeah. Yeah, don't do that. Bro, on Kauai, it's, it's happened here before, but on Kauai, it's really boring to drive. Because it's so easy. It's just so, like, you don't. So when you get, like, tired or sleepy or whatever, it's really easy to just fall asleep, super easy. And that's hard because you can't control it.

It's like you think you can just, I can control it. And sure, there is little tactics. Like you can do little things that, you know, inflict pain on yourself, whatever. But, man, it's really hard to control. Once you fall to see. Yeah, no, don't do that. Don't do that.

You wake up in a bridge enbunkment just dead. Or wake up dead, yeah. Yeah, that's bad. That's not good. The, I was reading this thing on motivation. And it said in this book, I'm not saying that this is true or not true, but it said it made sense.

where motivation, people misuse the word motivation and they confuse it with inspiration. So inspiration is like when someone gets you all revved up to do something, right? It's like what you're saying like, you know, let's do this or you see a mansion now you're inspired to work hard for stuff or whatever. Listen to some speech, some quote unquote motivational speech.

It inspires. It doesn't motivate you. Motivation is your bare, raw motive, the motive for you doing it. So let's say, I feel like I said this before, But the let's say I want to get in shape you know girls will get in shape for their wedding You know that's the motive is to be in shape for the wedding okay so that doesn't go away So she's not necessarily inspired meaning she's like she got infused with some feeling Yeah, you know you just have motivation wouldn't go away but it would well it no no here's the thing the

The only thing that's gonna get her there is discipline yeah yeah because the motivation she wakes up at five o'clock in the morning to go get a workout in before she goes to work It's real easy to just be like you know what I'm not feeling motivated today Right, right, I'll just get the get the wedding dress you know let out a little bit Yeah, but that just means that the motive motivation the motive isn't strong enough to overcome her Feelings or lack of inspiration. Yeah, that's why I don't rely on it Yeah, you're not gonna find a motivation that's strong enough to make you do the things that you have to do all the time You don't you can it doesn't exist it kind of well it depends it just depends so consider a fighter stop consider a fighter with a fight he To make weight bro. Yeah, you're right guys don't make weight sometimes guys don't make weight all the time

That's what I'm saying though the motive and you know what you know when that you know when that motivation failed that motivation failed you know five weeks ago Yeah when they should when they five guys burgers yeah they had a five guys burgers yeah you're right yeah you're right so the discipline holds the line yeah it does totally now you can have fun with it and you can be motivated to have discipline and you can say oh Like Pete Robin from origin geese I was up with him and And he's like got a bet to lose weight and he hit me with some false motivation because we were out we were out and you know we were ordered I was ordering big steak and just getting after the grub Sure. And I said like how many more pounds do you have you know we're talking about it? I was like it kind of suck to sit here. He's like no. I actually enjoy watching you eat delicious food You know little false motivation coming at you but in a funny way. Yeah and instead letting it out like that instead of being just miserable Why not just have some fun with it? Yeah.

Yeah. That's my advice. Yeah, fully. But then the difference, though, like I said, I agree. You're right. I mean, the point I was maybe making was a, was just the technical difference between motivation and inspiration. You know how it's a, hey, you motivate. No, right.

You got to know this podcast. No, because both those words just don't do much for me. They're flimsy. They're weak. Yeah. They're weak words. And they're weak. And the actual subjects are.

week inspiration all right right motivation like it's not gonna get you there come on it might get you through like a the first three minutes of of you know you and I were just talking before you came in here you said there was moments in your workout today when you could have easily or yesterday you could have easily called it like hey man I'm sweating I got a good workout but you didn't yeah you held the line yes discipline discipline it was actually I created false one it just truth be told you're right but I've created false motivation for myself.

I just say, you know what? I'm going to do this. Actually, it's the way for me to facilitate discipline for myself is I want to do this because I'm going to feel better afterwards. Oh, yes. You know, that whole deal. You're talking about discipline there. And then you contrast it with how junk I'm going to feel if I don't.

Weak. Embarrassed for myself, by the way. And when I said that, you know, how a workout has many opportunities to stop. Yeah. So one, the first opportunity is in the parking lot. In this case, I went to a gym. So. Bro, if you walk away.

When you're in the parking lot, you got issues. Bro, I've done that. I've done that like four times in my life. You have to admit that on the podcast. You should just lie. Well, it makes this current story more significant. So boom, that's the first opportunity. Second opportunity is before you warm up,

which is pretty close to the first opportunity. God. Have you ever quit then? Yes. Oh my God. Twice. One time it felt real good because I justified it very effectively. And the second time I was like,

I just got to get after it tomorrow, whatever. tomorrow whatever nonetheless then then it's after the first body part deep or the first sort of you know you have I'm gonna do you know MECON first I'm gonna do squats first you know it's after the first exercise Yeah, really yeah yeah okay that's one opportunity like to me the biggest hurdle is getting there which which is when you have your gym at your house that's that hurdle's gone I agree that it gets easier To to hold the line for sure after you start but there's a part at the end you know how like how you just said you like to do your Metcon like afterwards? No, lately I've been doing Metcon before and lifting heavy afterwards. Yeah, yeah, that's what I meant.

But you're right, I could say, you know what, that Metcom was a little bit heavy. Yeah, it's hard. So maybe I'll just call it good on the heavy part. Yeah, exactly right. But man, I feel so good when I'm all loosened up. Yeah. Yeah, so same deal with me. And I, you know, every opportunity to quit was passed.

It was waived. Well done, Echo Charlie. Yeah, man. So last question. I got time for one more. Yes. Jocko, I am a chronic excuse maker. How do I stop making excuses and get things done?

The chronic excuse maker, how do you stop making excuses? This is actually pretty simple. And I said it the other day, and you have to realize, you have to know. You have to accept. that all your excuses are lies. They are lies, all of them. Think about the things that you tell yourself the lies you use to rationalize taking the easy road.

Taking the easy road and leaving discipline behind. Think about them. You don't have time. That's a lie. You don't have support. You don't have the equipment or the gear. Lies. You don't know the best way.

Who cares? That's a lie. Or you're too old or you're too young. Of course you're too old or too young. Lie. And there's, you're too busy. Sure you are. And you're too tired or you're too sore or you're just plain not feeling it.

Lies. Lies. Lies. And the list goes on and on and on and on and it doesn't stop if you don't make it stop. So recognize, recognize the excuses are not valid. They aren't. They're trumped up. They're conjured up.

They're fabricated. They're lies. And how do you stop the line? lies you stop the lies with the truth the truth the truth will set you free the truth will stand and the truth will deliver you from procrastination and laziness and the downward spiral that comes with a lack of discipline so don't believe the lies believe the truth and the truth is you have time You have the skill you have the knowledge and the support and the willpower and the discipline to get it done So cast out the lies burn them down and listen to the truth

And live the truth and go out and get it done Think that's all I've got for tonight So echo, speaking of the truth, could you perhaps explain to us how to support this podcast, if we want to? If we want to, sure. What you can do is support yourself. I think I made this analogy before, you know, in the aircraft, pre-take-off. They go through the safety instructions in the event of cabin pressure loss. Oxygen tank mask comes down put on yourself before you're infant all that I mean that's a good kind of thing where you support yourself

Then you can help support others So support yourself this is how with supplementation like it and again. I'll say this again I'll say it every day if I if I am compelled if I'm motivated to Inspired to either way I'm now into supplements Not a bunch but before I was like no supplements you just get good nutrition and anyway so krill oil and I think this is a daily thing

by the way and I think you can maybe relate I think daily on how happy I am that I take krill oil and I don't like thank my lucky star nothing like that I'm just saying there are daily things that it's on my mind that I'm like this experience would be different if I did not take

krill oil straight up that is true so I got a so I back my car into the garage. Loading mats? Oh yeah. That was another time, but this was more recently.

So it's getting, you know how you fill up the five gallon things of water. Yeah. And I talk about that. So I'm putting it, like, you got to maneuver it because I sit in the garage. I should have pulled out, but whatever. I'm maneuvering. I'm hardcore, man, big time. So I'm maneuvering.

Got to take it out. And I don't want to, you know, so you, it's hard to explain. But you know when you're in tight space. Whatever, man. Whatever. It's true. It's actually. It's applicable everyday life.

The creole oil isn't just for deep squats heavy. It's for taking five gallons of water in a jug out of tight spaces where you've got to kind of twist, you know? Yeah. Because you don't want the car door to hit like the other car door and dent it. It's a good time to have the krill oil in you. Yeah, man.

And really that's, well, that's part of the payoff as well. Big part is the everyday things. It's true. For sure. Yeah. There'd be times where I would be sitting down a long time and I stand up and I'm surprised on how little pain I feel. Not pain, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. But you ever been like that where you think like, yes. I'm going to feel like, oh, this is going to be stiff or this is going to be hurt or whatever, and it's just simply not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That part is real.

So get your krill oil in the event of you even wanting krill oil. These are my experiences. Obviously, Jocco's as well because you take krill oil as well. Indeed. Get them from Onet. Onet.com slash Jocco. If you want the 10% off. Also the alpha brain

So the cruel oil, that's like, I don't think that'll ever go away. No. The alpha brain, I am using a lot more. I'm reading more to coincidence. Maybe, maybe not. One might be causing the other. Correlation may not be causation. But I'm just saying that is happening.

And I will admit this as far as workouts go. I'm getting real into the kettlebells. You've always been into the kettlebells. Yeah. Yeah. Not always, but, you know, 15 years. No, no, no, no. You've been in the game for a while.

No, I would say like maybe 10 years or something, 12 years. Yeah. Okay, maybe it has been 15 years. Yeah. Because I just remember that picture, Joe Rogan. I think Joe Rogan and I were talking about the picture of Fador. Yeah, Fador. Yeah, I looked that out right when you guys were talking about.

Fador with the pictures. And I was like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah, yeah. Kind of hard to get them back then, though. Yeah. Well, yeah, so I think it was Joe Rogan saying how, like, somebody introduced him to America. And that's what it's a Russian guy. Yeah, man, they're really good.

Again, being careful every single moment. But I'm to the point right now where, like, you know, you get kind of good and it gets even funer like anything. And then I'm like, oh, let me get that heavier one now. We'll get the heavier one. But I will say this about the kettlebells, about my experience. I started off the kettlebells getting these designer ones, you know, primal bells on it. Zombie bells. Actually, I didn't get the zombie.

I got primal. the legend, werewolf ones. Anyway, they're cool, right, cool to look at. So you know who I'm kind of like?

Who? I don't know if I should be proud of this or ashamed of this, but I'm like the kid, you know, the teenager gets their driver's license and there's two types of kids. There's the one kid who the dad's like,

hey, you got to learn to walk before you can fly. So you got to like, I don't know, I'll make the down payment. You make the payments. That's what my dad used to say. Or you make the down payment

or whatever, you know, like you've got to work for this first car and it might not be the, you know, The BMW, whatever. Then there's the other kid who rolls right into the BMW. You know, hey, good job.

You're 50 now. Big, big time of your life, time in your life, whatever. Here's a dope car. Congratulations. Love you, son. You know, then there's that guy. That's kind of who I am with the kettlebells. You know, I didn't like pay my dues, you know, when the kettlebells were new and all this stuff.

Straight to it. Yeah, I went straight to the BMW. The dope kettlebell. We're off. Yeah. Anyway, a lot of cool stuff on there. On it.com. A lot of cool stuff on there.

All legit stuff. That's, I think, the real compelling thing for me anyway. It's because I know these supplements, man. They're whack. I've heard of people getting their supplements and then, you know, the supplement was like contaminated with something. And then they say, oh, yeah, they just mix all the supplements and the same thing.

And the fat, it's like it can be really whack. Nonetheless, on it, that's the good ones. Quality. So yeah, if you want 10% off on it.com slash jocco. Strongbone is a good one too for your tent. It's in my experience. Also, Amazon. So where do we get these books?

Sure, we didn't do books today, but we do what, what, 66% of the time, would you say? Probably something like that. Yeah, maybe more, sometimes more than one book. Well, yeah, last time we did three books. Three books, boom, all on the website, by the way. Yep. So anyway, if you, this is another support yourself situation. A lot of time people ask, hey, you know, which book was that again?

You know, and they got to go back away. People ask for me for a reading list. Hey, do you have some kind of reading list? I'm like, yes, I've got a reading list. It's on joccalpodcast.com. And by the way, are there books that, are there good books that you've read that you haven't put on the podcast? Not really.

When I read a book and it's good, it's going on the podcast. Yeah. If I read a book and it's lame, it's not going on the podcast. Now, there's some books that are informational, but they don't cut it for the podcast. Yeah. I wouldn't recommend them. I'll tell you a little, a little, I just read it.

I realized this I had a book selected for the podcast like three weeks ago and I got a hundred pages into it It didn't cut the mustard for the podcast Yeah, and I'll tell you the one of the major reasons for those of you that recommend me books a lot One of the major reasons that it didn't cut the mustard for the podcast is not only was it not a first person account But it didn't even have like a lot of excerpts of first person accounts It was just factually this is what happened this is what happened. This is what happened. It was very well Well detailed as a good book, but it wasn't podcast because if you if you want to do that if we're just gonna read facts dates facts elements maneuvering

That's that's you could just listen to the audio book right? Yeah Yeah, or just go look on Wikipedia Yeah, and it's gonna tell you the dates and times and where the units maneuvered and who won the battle and how many people casualties they were Right all that stuff's in there We don't want just that I want to hear what the people were thinking. I want to hear them from the human beings Yep. So even though there's people send me books if you're gonna send me a book look for the first person account if it's not a first person account Like machete season that's not a first part account but it it interviews the killers. Yeah, so you're hearing the first person accounts Yeah, man. Yep and that reading list so that reading links reading list is pretty

Pretty well vetted then like straight up if it doesn't pass the Jocko approval of recommendation It's not going on it's not going on this podcast not going on and then therefore You know, subsequently. No, I'd rather not do a podcast than put a lame book on the podcast. It's not happening. Boom, and that's the standard right there. So, docopodcast.com, top menu,

little thing says books from the podcast. All of them by an episode. Yep. And what I'm kind of starting to do is like, let's say, you know how, like I mentioned that book, it's called Mind Games. Just a small little book. I think it even talks.

Did you put it on there? Yeah. Somebody tweeted. I didn't know you put it on there. Yeah. So I'll put that kind of, if you're, if we mention a cool. book and let's say for what let's say it doesn't fit or you didn't get to it or whatever but

there's some sort of a for lack of a better term buzz going around it yeah put it on there nonetheless point there is get the books from there click through there that's a good way to support small action big reaction and if you're just gonna shop for duct tape and other you know stuff that you need oh do that too click through the website double support double support yes dang still one action one big reaction. You understand what I'm saying? Also, subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, Stature, Google Play, and other podcast providing platforms. Oh, that's a good way to support, of course, and also YouTube. Put some excerpts on there when, yesterday, today, today. Yeah, yesterday. So those are even,

and I knew this before, but those are getting more and more, in my opinion, significantly valuable. because even I I don't memorize every word of every podcast but when I go through and I kind of look at it and then you know I listen to it listen to the three minutes or whatever it's like a good little reminder it's like a refresher and that's not to mention

let's say if I totally forgot it you know yeah and not to mention if you hear it and you go that reminds me of Bill he's having that issue going to send it over to Bill no problem shareable yep and he's gonna he's gonna probably watch it as opposed to hey Bill

here's here's the podcast I was talking about with your issue it's three hours and 27 minutes long get some exactly you're right bill might not listen to that quite yet he might get around to it might not not if he's in a hurry not if he has a busy life still might find a way anyway but they are shareable and they're quicker so you can when you click on you can listen to them their excerpts including those and also other videos I'm gonna put on there but you know we're working on those so yeah YouTube subscribe get some as they say also jaco has a store

it's called jaco store jocco store.com that's the website it's an online store it's a good one just did a little revamping of it a little bit a little bit more user friendly not that it wasn't user friendly before but you know you can I don't know I think it's a little cleaner or whatever but

you know nonetheless the shirts are still available there if you like the shirts you like the designs get some. I'm not saying just hey guys support by buying shirts. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying go to the website.

Jocco store.com. Check them out. If you like them. Get them. Support that way. That's how. Also some travel mugs on there. Some bumper stickers.

There's hoodies, but should we be wearing hoodies right now? Well, we shouldn't hear. Yeah. We live in California Southern California Some people live in cold places

Like where Alaska Oh yeah huh Yeah that's true Norway Yeah that's true Also rash guards on there though So is it too soon to have like another rash guard

It's too soon huh I don't really necessarily think so Yeah I actually think more rash guards Is better Is better the more the better yeah Well, hey, we got two out, so there's, you know, rash guards on there as well, some women's stuff. And, yeah, if you want to support that way, get yourself a garment. There's a sick rash guard.

The sick rash guard from, like I said, I've been hanging out a little bit with a guy named Pete Roberts from origin geese up in Maine. Yeah. My home of record for the military, by the way. Dig it. New England. Dig it. And he made a, he made a rash guard like a special fourth of day. July day rash guard and I'm gonna go ahead and say affirmative it's out of control

You gotta check it out it is George Washington Waring a gie Riding a snake a giant snake the don't tread on me snake So it's I don't know if he's gonna make a lot of them, but if you don't have one I think we all should We basically have one. Origin main.com. You can get one of those.

Origin. Origin Maine. M-A-I-N-E. Origin-M-A-N-E. And what, you know where, you know where they're made? What you guess where they're made? Well, you figure Maine.

No, you figure, oh, well, if he's getting a rash guard, they're probably made in China. Maybe. Or maybe they're made in Pakistan. Maybe. Or maybe they're made in Taiwan. Maybe.

But there's also a whole bunch of places that make them like Sri Lanka and Vietnam and Thailand maybe they're made there you'd be wrong on every single one of those because you know where they're made America they're made they're made in Maine yeah so you might want to order one but do they source like the material everything it's from May it's from America Pete's crazy Pete he doesn't play around specially woven he's woven he's woven he he weaves his own material for geese to make geese with. Dang.

Yeah. Yeah. That's straight up made. That's straight up. That's just this made America. The cotton comes from South Carolina or something. Shipped up to Maine. Looms.

You know what, you even know what a loom is? Yeah. Fruit of the loom. So it's like here. And here's how I put it together, ultimately. So a loom,

it makes, you know, it's a weave stuff, right? Yeah. It's a basically a big weaving machine. I mean, there's more to it than that, of course. So now,

Remember the brand fruit of the loom? Yeah. Oh, I get it. That's the fruit. The fruit of the loom. Well, there you go. Origin actually has their own looms. Once again, here, in Maine.

Yeah. In your hometown. Layers, bro. Layers. Anyways, check those out. Yeah. And you'll be, to say you'll be fired up. I'm going to go ahead and say you will be.

Inspired. And it's funny, too, because the rash card design, the American, the Fourth of July Rashgar design, it's, you know how things can get so over the top that they actually become cool? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.

That's where it's at. That's where it's at. Like me, I'm all about the subtle designs, right? You know? Oh, what should we do? Mega black. And then don't put much on it. That's me.

He took the other direction. I'm going to have a giant snake. I'm going to have George Washington with a black belt on in an origin gea. I'm going to have, you know, know that's what I'm talking about yeah America that's kind of like on Kauai when you go to the North Shore and you can go north north north or you can go west west west and you go

too far because it's like a circle mm-hmm before you know it you're essentially at the same place well yeah that yeah see oh okay yeah yeah yeah at first I wasn't following you yes you do get to the same place yeah so you went he went too crazy he went too great but he went so far in the world in the realm of crazy that it became dope You know, because you have like, we consider dope is like the perfect mix of the crazy and understated and current contemporary or rebellion against. Yeah.

But he went in that one direction that you don't really go for, you know, mass acceptance and then he took it too far. And now it's right into. Right where it needs to be. Dopeness. Speaking of dopeness. Psychological warfare.

Hey, here's a question. Tough question. psychological warfare is this false motivation wait let me explain what it is so psychological warfare is an album with tracks of jocco saying basically you know in moments of weakness on your journey whatever waking up early sticking to the diet you know trying to get stuff done you know anti-procrastination stuff you can play these tracks and jocco will tell you how to get over that weakness for that moment So the question is, is that false motivation?

Because you did mention that you can use the false motivation. Yeah, well, maybe you are at that point. Right. It is possible. You just can't depend on it. You can't be like, hey, this is my whole thing. Yeah, that's a good point. It's going to get you there.

But if you're not disciplined yourself, those tracks aren't going to do anything for you. Right. Yeah, exactly. So what? Because they are pretty good. Yeah, they're pretty powerful. Well, it's like, I always say, And I know we got to make psychological warfare too.

I've got to continue to gather a couple more tracks that I'm thinking about and what people have been asking for so that they can, you know, have a little, little spot if they need it. Spot. Exactly. Yeah. So just. You know what I was thinking of naming psychological warfare too? What? Psychological warfare too.

Dang, bro. Dang. Advance, bro, advance. But yeah, that is what it is. It's a spot. So just like false motive. That can be just like a spot like you can't roll into the gym with your workout partner and be like hey, I'm gonna get under this bench It's four or five on there. I want you to do the whole thing. I want you to

Upright row yeah, that ain't you know yeah you don't that's not what a spot's for it's not what any of this thing is for It's I'm gonna do this in the unlikely event that I run into Something that might cause me to fail you got me that rest of the way. That's it So it's psychological warfare is too by the way but in my experience and opinion you can lean on that pretty heavily it'll get you through it's my opinion also

jocco white tea on amazon you can get that there and I guess I got asked on Twitter if I ever used any performance enhancing drugs you know and I said no but honestly let's just go ahead and face it white tea is

kind of the king of performance enhancement as far as I've seen So obviously it's the only substance on the market that is guaranteed to add 7,554 pounds to your deadlift So is that performance enhancing? Yes Luckily it's not being tested for right now. You know by the US DSA S P you saw it? Yeah, them so so right now you can get it. Yeah get it you can just get that that

massive increase in everything that you do that's cool also weigh the warrior kid and man so many people have been posting pictures of kids doing pull-ups and kids pulling tires and kids studying flashcards and kids making their own warrior kid codes and memorizing the presidents and it's honestly it's awesome to see kids in their first jiu-jitsu class it's so good to see so Everyone that has posted that and shown what's going on and spreading the word Thank you for doing that and if you really actually want to support this podcast don't worry about the podcast don't support the podcast Don't worry about it go buy this book for some kids that you know because the feedback is just it's awesome

It's awesome to see and I can see that is absolutely impacting kids and I I just couldn't be happier about that. And if you want to help, don't worry about me, don't worry about Echo Charles. Get this book for some kids. It's the book we should have had when we were kids. Agree.

Get kids on the right path. I guess if you really wanted to support, you could get it through Amazon. Right. Then you'd be good. Do double gravitational. Double gravitational. Also, discipline equals freedom field manual.

So many questions that I get asked are answered in the book beyond what I you know workouts food sleep plus it's also contains the core of my belief system what keeps me going how I overcome setbacks everything it's all in there and I'll tell you it's not a normal book this is not normal this is not a normal book in any stretch my publisher says he's never seen a book anything close to this it's outside the box of anything I've never seen anything like it so we're going out on a little limb here yeah it's sort of like the podcast because there's not too many pod there's no podcast

that's doing what we're doing is there sure I don't know well I haven't heard one not that I haven't heard one yeah so it's sort of like that yeah yeah we're entering the same zone in my opinion there's words there there's pages there yes like normal books but there's patterns there there's layers there and it comes out October 17th so ordered up you can get that first batch you want the one that

says first edition right sure it's the one you want on the inside cover the one that says first printing that's the one and also you know you know your friend that's off the path you know yes your friend oh you grew up with this friend

they're off the path get one for them it's not normal not a normal The one that needs discipline get him this book also of course extreme ownership Combat leadership lessons from the battlefield to use in your business and your life wherever you're leading Whoever you're leading extreme ownership you can pick that one up also echelon front leadership and management consulting me Laif Babin J P. Dennell Dave Burke You want to get your leadership team

Unified email info at echelonfront.com. We'll come and make it happen and finally the muster The first muster that we did in San Diego sold out the one we did in New York sold out the one we're doing in Austin sold out So if you wanted to come to those and you didn't make it sorry you know But we are back in San Diego September 14th and 15th back at the Omni hotel down town muster zero zero four new material by the way new material but same attitude same passion we're gonna bring it we're gonna burn it down we will see you there and until we do see you there we'll see you on the interwebs on Twitter Instagram and that's Facebooky boh

echo is at echo Charles and I I am at Jaka Willink and thanks once again for listening to those in uniform, especially those overseas. Thank you for being strong and brave and standing up for what you and we believe in. And also thanks to police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics and other first responders. Thanks for keeping us safe here at home and to everyone else out there. Like first lieutenant Leonard Isaacs asked See how you can help people ask how you can help them and clean up what's around you

And never run away from something you're afraid of and as dr. Horakova told us whether you're at an operating table or a lathe Or a sewing machine or on a construction site or your child's cradle or wherever you're working Do your work skillfully honestly and happily and with your whole being do your best in everything you do and as they both taught us remember Our time here is short so get out there and live and until next time This is echo and jaco out