Jocko Podcast - 84: Importance of Trust, Discipline, and Creativity in Leadership. "18 Platoon."

Episode Date: July 19, 2017

0:00:00 - Opening 0:02:56 - "18 Platoon" by Sydney Jary.  Trust, Discipline, and Creativity in Leadership 2:30:58 - Take-aways and lessons learned. 2:51:11 - Support, Cool Onnit, JockoStore stuff, with Jocko White Tea and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual.  3:18:25 - Closing Gratitude.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 84 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. Gentlemen, your life expectancy from the day you join your battalion will be precisely three weeks. The florid, mustached major who addressed us at the small reinforcement camp a few miles from Bayou obviously had misplaced, had a misplaced sense of humor. or he should have been sacked on second thought he definitely should have been sacked not that any of the dozen infantry subalterns took the slightest notice of what to us were the ramblings of an old fool he was probably no more than 40 the fourth battalion the Somerset light infantry was in

129 brigade and was a pre-war territorial army battalion with close links with Bristol and Bath in the United Kingdom till late June 1914 it was a close-knit unit which had almost been decimated within a period of 48 hours on 5th of July three officers and 62 other ranks were required as reinforcements between the 14th and the 18th of July of further 12 officers of whom I was one and 479 other ranks arrived and even then the battalion was still below its full strength of 36 officers and nearly 700 NCOs and men this will give some idea of the appalling level of infantry

casualties which had to be accepted in order to enlarge the slender and vulnerable Normandy beachhead because I had the had had previous experience of six-pounder anti-tank guns the commanding officer lippy Lieutenant Colonel C.G. Lipscomb posted me as second-in-command to the battalion's anti-tank platoon which consisted of six guns but my stay with the platoon was short and I was quickly sucked into the real infantry battle as commander of 18 platoon in D company on the 31st of July immediately after the battle of brisk Corsard D company had just lost their commander Tim Braithwaite

who lost a foot and gained a military cross and 18 platoon their commander so that right there is the beginning of a book that we're gonna look at today it's called 18 platoon it's written by a guy named Sidney Jerry J a R Y R Y R Y who was born in Essex in 1924, joined the army in 1942 as a private soldier. In 1943, he was commissioned. And from July of 1944 until June of 1945, he served as the platoon commander for 18 platoon.

And the chances of survival for an infantry subaltern in a rifle company during the campaign and northwest Europe were slim. Most survived for only a few weeks. Sidney Jerry survived 10 months from July, 1944, when he took command of 18 platoon in Normandy until the end of the war near Bremen in early May of 1945. So this guy, this is amazing.

This guy, Sydney, Jerry, he's the only platoon commander in the in the British second army to survive as a platoon commander from Normandy to the German surrender one guy one guy and this is the guy it's it's amazing and you're going to see that his attitude is I mean the lessons that he learned he was young coming in he's 20 years old 20 year old platoon commander coming in inexperienced kind of lived a sheltered life you got to check out some pictures of him he has that look too he looks sheltered look he looks like you know sheltered it looks like a little young whippersnapper so we'll go back to the book here as he breaks down what a platoon was at this time in 1944 the war establishment of a british infantry platoon was 36 men

it consisted of three rifle sections each of 10 men including a brend gunner each commanded by a corporal or sometimes a Lance Sargent. There was also a small platoon headquarters with a two-inch mortar detachment, a piot, which was an anti-tank weapon, the platoon sergeant, and the commander's Batman slash runner. On July 31st, 18 platoon consisted of 17 all ranks, 12 of whom were recent reinforcements. Hill 112 and Brickrsegaard had claimed the rest. So think about that. You're supposed to have 36 people in your platoon and they have 17, of which 12 are replacements,

which means that 29 people had been casualties. There's seven people that had been either killed or wounded. They're sorry, seven people out of this 36 that hadn't been killed or wounded, that remained in the platoon right now. So that's what we're talking about here. And again, he's coming in, no combat experience. He rolls in and going back to the book. I sensed instantly that a tight grip was required, particularly so because those few

who survived Hill 112 had witnessed what was, without a doubt, the most horrific tragedy that befell the battalion during the entire campaign. So he's about to explain what they had been through. He wasn't there for it, but he knew and he had heard what they had been through. And I'm going to say that again, this is the most horrific tragedy for the entire campaign. This is what they're coming off of and this is who he's going to take over for. This is what they had been through. Back to the book.

During a company night attack, one of our soldiers had been hit in the lower chest by a rifle or machine gun bullet. Passing through his body, it had not killed him outright. The bullet's devilish course lay through the soldier's webbing. equipment pouch which contained a 77 phosphorus smoke grenade which exploded caught on barbed wire the poor soldier lay disemboweled for all around to see his writhing body a smoking mass of burning phosphorus responding to his agonized screams to put him out of his misery his platoon commander shot him through the heart and finally through the head after the poor man's final frenzied please not there sir through the head Doug Proctor was witness to this sublimely courageous incident which seared itself upon all our hearts so that's what you're going to take over for can you do that I mean is that like legal you know like if they found out that that happened I have no idea what the legal ramifications are but the moral

weight on the shoulders of the men that witness that is is unbelievably it's it's hard to imagine what that feels like back to the book to the NCOs sergeant Jim Kingston and corporal Doug Proctor immediately reported to me and explained forcefully and in great detail the poor state of the platoon as they knew it to be so you've got these guys these are the senior enlisted guys in the platoon Jim Kingston and Doug Proctor you're going to hear a long about them and they're coming to him here's this new guy checking in and they're coming to him and they're you know get telling him how what what a bad state the

platoon is in back to the book while they did so I was conscious of being weighed up was I fit to be their platoon commander they were responsible anxious and discriminating NCOs that stands for non-commissioned officers the the senior enlisted guys and my apprenticeship was to start immediately they were startled by my tire previously warned by a young officer who'd fought in Tunisia that battle dress was most unsuitable for bat battle I'd come prepared in sand-colored corduroy trousers and a stout pullover not unlike that now worn throughout the army among my prejudices was an acute dislike of steel helmets they gave me headaches on exercises in

England I had been obliged to wear one but the surge of individualism which now engulfed me convinced me that this was an article of equipment best left out of battle. So he shows up and he's kind of dressed out of uniform. He doesn't want to wear his helmet. He's wearing corduroy pants. Back to the book, battle schools in England had insisted that infantry officers should wear the same equipment and dress as their soldiers,

the idea being that they could not be then be so easily identified by enemy snipers. They also decreed that one should carry a rifle or a sten gun. Clearly, this was ridiculous. How on earth could your own soldiers recognize you in the heat of battle if you went through such lengths to disguise? He had the same attitude as Lieutenant Lee in Korea that was wearing the orange vest. Do you remember that? So he could be identified in battle by his own men? That's what this guy's attitude is.

I'm not going to dress like everyone else. They need to be, they need to know that I'm out there. They need to be able to see me. Back to the book. I dispensed with a rifle or stend gun too because I'm hopelessly short-sighted. And I did not fancy trying to command a platoon while got up like a Christmas tree, meaning covered in a bunch of gear. As a concession to impending battle, I sported a 45-cult automatic pistol with two spare magazines.

The 38 Enfield revolver, then general issue throughout the Army, managed to combine total mechanical reliability with complete ineffectiveness. I once fired six shots from, one at a target pinned to a plywood board none of which even penetrated the board Neither did I hit the target which gave me little confidence in this weapon the nine pounds I paid for the colt proved a sound investment so there's a lot of people that like to talk about what type of Sidearm there you've got a big proponent for the cult 45 Yeah the old classic again important to remember that he's not even carrying a rifle

because he knows his job This lead and I used to do it when we had seals seal leaders that would spend too much time on their gun I would say hey you know what they used to carry in the Marine Corps and the army if you were a leader you know what they'd carry they carry a pistol So give me your rifle and we take it from like you you need to be leading not shooting Laif talks about that a lot oh yeah it's very you know Laif talks about his mentality which was he wants to shoot Yeah he's from Texas you know he just wants to shoot his gun and he's realized hey I'm not here to shoot my gun yeah I'm here to you know be a high port and be off my gun and leading Yeah, that's my job and these guys took it to the point where they're not even carrying a rifle

Yeah now he's talking about his senior leadership a little bit his enlisted leadership back to the book Jim Kingston was short quiet and shy with the shrewdness of a countryman although he had lived and worked in Bristol all his life He barely raised his voice but had total command over his section there was no argument with Jim that that's another thing you'd find about this book this book it it takes so many stereotypes from from Sydney Jerry on down like these stereotypes are just out the window of the way this platoon was and there's a classic example you know you you picture the senior enlisted guy this bra you know gunny highway scenario not happening now he now he talks about Doug

Proctor back to the book Doug Proctor although a Somerset came from nodding him also short he was positive direct with unfailing common sense and like Jim quietly dominated his section so there's another and i got to see some great leaders there's some guys that were in were in t u bruiser that were quiet when they were in t u bruiser and when i was putting them through their next workup i was thinking to myself hey are they going to be able to step up and lead and that's exactly how they did it right there they were just like quiet professional and controlling, but they didn't run their mouth to get it done. Back to the book, I had not previously met any platoon like this one.

They were quiet, thoughtful, and unabrasive soldiers. There was little swearing, and there existed a tranquility in their relationships with one another. Their eyes implored me not to fail them. Two factors were immediately apparent. Firstly, the platoon required quiet, firm, and confident leadership. So that's a good assessment. You can see these guys don't need anybody yelling at them. And here's his second point.

Secondly, if I failed to use my imagination and slavishly followed the battle school drills, most of the platoon would not survive another major battle. So all the things he learned, the standard typical stuff that he'd learned, That wasn't going to work. And it hadn't worked. That's why they had so many replacements come in. Back to the book. In fact, the problem that faced me with 18 platoon was identical to the one facing General Montgomery, our Army Group commander.

How to fight and defeat the cream of the SS Panzer divisions in the close Normandy-Boucage and still retained sufficient infantry riflemen to live and fight tomorrow. The problem was a difficult one. obviously I must set an example and always lead from the front however if I became over eager and got myself killed or wounded the whole object of my previous training and my responsibility to my platoon would be cast away I would in fact be letting down 18 platoon so he knows he's got to lead from the front same time he knows got to stay alive he knows got to stay alive and this Normandy fighting here he talks

about Normandy being a defendant paradise meaning when you're on the defense in Normandy it's it's a paradise for the people on defense which was the Germans back to the book we fought from one hedgerow to the next up torturous overgrown sunken lanes ideal country for the German defender but appalling for attacking infantry however no arm but infantry could take and hold the Normandy Boccage Boccage is like a trees shrubs mingled together It was here that I served my apprenticeship and the platoon developed its character which despite constant depletion by casualties over the coming 10 months it would retain until the end of the war It was also here that imperceptibly I became possessive with 18 platoon It was mine to be guarded with an almost maternal jealousy that resented all criticism of my soldiers That's building at this point Most important, it was in the bocage that I began to appreciate how vital is grip.

Grip on oneself, grip on one's soldiers, and grip on the situation. Unlike characters in novels and films, most men react nervously to real battle conditions. Discipline and regimental pride are supports, but in decisive, moments of great danger, the grip of the leader on the lead is paramount. Infantry section and platoon commanders must possess the minds and hearts of their soldiers. Strength of character is not enough. Successful leadership in battle, although complex and intangible, always seem to me to depend on two factors. Firstly, soldiers must have confidence in their leader's professional ability. And secondly,

They must trust them as men. So there you go. They got to have confidence in your ability and trust. And this trust topic comes up all the time. And I use the word relationships kind of interchangeably with trust. I always have to remind myself to point that out that when I'm talking about relationships and building relationships and business on the battlefield and life, relationships are trust. That's what they are.

We build a relationship on trust. And I guess you could have You know relationships that aren't built on trust that those are like another thing You know I have a relationship with that guy but you know Yeah, so but that's not that's not what I'm talking about right about good relationships Yeah Those are based on trust and those are obviously The most important thing to him

So first is confidence in their ability and second is trust I like this part it helps too if a leader has the reputation of being lucky Field Marshal Montgomery placed great importance on the principle of making the enemy dance to your tune Nowhere is this more important than in platoon and company battle It is decisive because if you do not dominate events your enemy will There you go. That's jiu jitsu right there be first Yeah, you got to be first you got to dictate the pace you got to you got to be proactive

Back to the book sound leadership like true love to which I suspect it is closely related is all powerful. It can overcome the seemingly impossible, and its effect on both leader and lead is profound and lasting. Even after the passage of 40 years, brief mention of the battalion's finest officers and NCOs brings a smile to the faces of the survivors of my platoon. Their resentment of those who failed to lead when it mattered most still runs astonishing. deep so leadership can overcome seemingly impossible this is why leadership is the most

important thing on the battlefield now he's going into his so that's kind of his assessment and this is based on his experience which we're about to get into then he does more assessments there's more more he talks more about what he learns about leadership as a whole but you have to kind of understand what he went through and figure out where he learned it from the first his first command in battle here we go back to the book we were to attack this rugged hill from the west with the fifth Wiltshers on our right and the fourth Wiltshers in reserves the the approach march to our forming up place had been a nightmare of swirling

abrasive dust shelling and the stench of exhaust fumes from the tanks which transported us forward we were due to attack at 1500 hours with a company leading on the right and B Company on the left. We followed B Company. B Company moved off quickly with our company deployed about 300 yards behind. Their forward platoons had barely crossed the stream when concentrated Spandau Fire

came from the front and from both flanks. So Spandau Fire, this is kind of a generic term that the Brits used for German machine guns. They're primarily talking about the M.G.42, which is a big belt-fed machine gun. very similar to a modern what we have M60 or Mark 48 machine gun a big heavy belt fed machine gun which lays down the insane amounts of suppressive fire so here we go they're getting hit from both flanks from with these machine guns back to the book there must have been about

12 machine guns firing at one time this devastating display of firepower stopped the battalion dead in its tracks there was no way forward or around it and no way to retire some of the guns had engaged D company over the heads of B company and private Morrison 18 platoon was killed so there's his first guy lost I like this the way he starts off this next sentence here first word powerless so he's in his first combat situation he's got one man killed and how does he feel powerless here we go powerless and crouching in a hedgerow, I tried to identify the Spandau positions. This proved impossible as they still kept up their crushing display of firepower.

In my ignorance, I expected that the enemy machine gunners would soon expend their ammunition. They did not. Nor did they in dozens of subsequent battles. So he's waiting for them to stop shooting? They don't. It just keeps coming. Captain Scamel, commanding A company, was severely wounded. Major Thomas, commanding B Company, was killed.

Their companies were badly cut up. On our right, the Fifth Wilchers had fared no better. With their CO killed and casualties mounting, their attack also foundered. As the afternoon turned to evening, shelling and mortaring increased, much of it passing over our heads, thus isolating us from the reserve battalion. So the Germans are mortaring over their head so that the reserve battalion can't get to them. Shortly before dark a troop of tanks arrived one of which was able to cross the stream and give us some brave close support Undoubtedly it increased our morale but it was not enough to get the whole attack underway again

Any movement by B company to our front brought down instant and concentrated spandau fire The same applied to us a few hundred yards to their rear Fortunately the enemy did not seem to have any anti-tank guns so our armored friends were comparatively safe but the fact remained that about 12 spandos had halted a battalion attack without our locating even one of them that's what suppressive fire does that's what that's what a big machine gun does you got 12 big machine guns that's stopping 700 people from moving that's called suppressive fire that's why you know when you heard roger hayden talk about how many heavy weapons they how many machine guns they'd carry they I think they had nine out of a

platoon of 14 that's why yeah as dusk fell a new plan was made C and D companies would advance in single file through A and B companies and using the cover of dark darkness infiltrate the enemy position once through them we would climb to the top of the hill and consolidate a cold and damp mist descended which with fading light gave us welcome cover but also wretched discomfort we were still in shirt sleeves which became damp from the sweat of our exertion climbing the steep lower slopes alert with pistol in hand I anticipated a sudden brush with an enemy post not a shot was fired by some miracle we passed right through their positions without being to deck detected our luck had changed

so you're gonna see of quite a bit of that is as they what the Germans were doing at this point defending hard but then instead of staying and dying in most cases they would retreat and so they'd fight really hard for a while and then retreat and they'd advance if they had an opportunity but you're going to see a lot of that back to the book we now had to advance across a large orchard so i deployed the platoon with two sections up and urged them forward as fast as possible suddenly in the middle of the orchard we came across a young girl in a clean white dress sitting with her back to an apple tree sketching now I just talked about this the must of the random things that happen in combat and this is what I'm talking about and how do you train for that? How would you ever if you're running a battle problem to train people? What are you going to do put a white girl in a white dress and sitting with her back to a tree sketching?

Doesn't make any sense. How do you deal with it back to the book? She seemed quite oblivious to the mortar fire in 18 platoons warlike appearance How to stop pretty young girls from interfering with battle had not been part of my training as an officer cadet nor had it appeared on the curriculum of any battle school Which without exception had despaired of my future as an infantry soldier Fortunately, there was a farmhouse beside the orchard and it had a cellar where she was persuaded to shelter while we got on with our battle I reported what it occurred to our company commander who told me that I was being quite ridiculous Really Jerry you're being absurd with that remark. I realized that he had been a schoolmaster a breed with whom I had been in conflict and until quite recently a breed with whom I'd been in conflict with until quite recently so this guy has the the attitude of a schoolmaster which in England is a little bit

different and especially in the 1930s and 40s you know the strict I think of a pink Floyd you know the headmaster how can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat that guy that's what he's comparing him to his next sarcastic remark I would be obliged Jerry if you would kindly get on with the war he gave me little indication of what he wanted my platoon to do nor did it inspire confidence We were still over 200 yards from the meadow surrounded by cornfields which was the company's objective And now became apparent that our company commander had an academic and detached attitude of mind which made it quite impossible for him to command the company So the company the commander's not in the game there's one thing to be detached from your emotions to make sure you're not getting caught up in the mayhem but

It was another thing to be so detached that you're not even aware of what's going on. And actually, I had a name for this when I was running training. Battlefield aloofness is what I called it. Because we'd get these guys, you'd get these guys, and we'd be running these crazy battlefield problems on them, and there'd be not to be crazy. And you'd go, I remember one time there's a, the task unit commander, there's all this mayhem going on. The platoons are getting overrun, and people are getting, you know, shot with paintball, and they're not hitting their objectives. and I walk over to the company commander. He's sitting in a Humvee.

Sorry, the TU commander, the troop commander. He's sitting in a Humvee. And I, like, the windows up because they're bulletproof windows, but he doesn't want to get shot with paintball. The windows up. He's just sitting in there. He's got his headset on of his radio. Like knock on the door.

I'm like, hey, man, you know, what's going on out there? He's like, well, I'm trying to gather that information right now. And I'm like, bro, you ain't going to gather anything here, but dust. Yeah, you need to get out there and make something happen. Because his idea was, you know, I need to be detached.

Yeah. Which I talk about being detached all the time. But there's a difference between being, and you see the same thing in businesses, where the boss or the leader has no idea what's happening on the ground floor. Right? He doesn't know what the workers are doing.

So he's so far detached that he's, you know, let them eat cake, right? Right. That's where this guy is. Wait, so why is that? It's because what they just, In a way just depend on them to just handle it on their own. They think they're gonna handle it on their own which is a good attitude to have until they can't handle it anymore Right right once they can't once a once a team or a platoon or a business unit can't handle it on their own and they're failing

You have to get you have to go do your job. You have to step up you have to step down Yeah, as leader. You have to get in there and square that stuff away. Yeah, yeah. So it's that without the Get in their part right. It's just like all right. Just call me when it's done. Yeah, yeah. And the problem is somebody's got to sort these problems out. Yeah, yeah. They're there. They're real. Yeah.

And they're not getting better. And you might take you a minute to go, okay, wait a second, these problems aren't getting better. What should I do? Once you realize that they're not getting better, you've got to get in there and make it happen. Yeah. This guy's not doing that. Back to the book, he behaved like a supercilious umpire on an exercise in England. At any moment, I expected him to admonish me for bad tactics.

And the schoolboy in me feared that I might be sent. to the headmaster for a beating. So they continue on. We seized the highest point which faced the enemy and the other platoons quickly deployed to give all around defense of the other flanks.

After being mortared, the company required no encouragement to dig in. It's a real motivator. Getting mortared will make you shovel hard. The company commander walked round the platoon positions, eyeing everyone with distaste.

Nothing pleased him and he suddenly announced, that he must sleep which he did in my slit trench getting not a good feeling about this company commander just looking at everyone like negatively and then all of a sudden he wants to sleep I don't like this guy and of course he sleeps in in my trench now this is good there's another officer that's there that's present a guardian angel was watching over us in the guise of Dennis Clark Dennis some years older than me was exceptionally kind to me and tolerant of my immaturity.

Pay attention, this is good. He took me by the arm a few paces away from my platoon. Who the hell is in command of this shambles, Sonny? I muttered the unconvincing explanation that it was our company commander. Looking me straight in the eye, he drew a deep breath, which managed to express both exasperation at my explanation and sympathy with my predicament. You and I know that he is not. So what are you going to do about it?

I asked him if I should take command. His expression hardened. Yes, you bloody well should. Some demonstration of loyalty to my wretched company commander was obviously required. I blurted out that he was really a schoolmaster and not a professional soldier, so he's kind of defending him. Dennis put his arm around my shoulder and whispered in my ear. So was I, Sonny. So that's awesome.

The company commander is not leading. And this guy, Dennis Clark, who I think he's artillery, gunner, pulls this guy's aside and says, bro, you better take charge of this. And you better do it quick. Back to the book, we were now well dug in on our objective. The company commander was still asleep. Dennis was arranging defensive fire tasks for me. I had assumed command of D company without a word passes in between our company commander and me

In practice it made not the slightest difference because because like a bad Preparatory schoolmaster he saw his role as one of examination and criticism This he continued to do despite the incredulous stares of the NCOs so he's taken charge and and he hasn't even said anything He's just done it. He just took charge and all the guys the guys continued to walk around did stare glare at everyone but that doesn't matter so this is a classic example your leader's not leading i i've given this answer it's so many times but this is a classic this might be one of the best examples your leader's not leading that's fine good step up and lead yourself back to the book by dawn the enemy had retired

and elements of the battalion moved forward to consolidate and strengthen d company's position the whole operation was very amateur There was no doubt that the new company commander could not command a company in battle nor could I Who is just beginning to master the rudiments of commanding a platoon He was removed within a few hours I think Dennis had something to do with it But he was not the kind of man to confide in 20 year old subalterns So that's another classic thing right there is that this guy Dennis who is another

officer Probably went and said to get this guy out of here get this company commander out of here But when he does it, the company commander gets removed and he doesn't say anything to Sydney Jerry. He doesn't rat it out or brag about her or make a big deal. He doesn't say anything. It just happens. It's like when I had a mutiny in my platoon. And the commanding officer's like, no, we're not firing anyone.

You guys get out of here, shut your mouth and go back to work. And we were like, okay. And then a few days, like a week later, he got fired. But it wasn't because of us as far as we know. Like no one said anything. We just knew he got fired. Yeah. Well, what reason?

Hmm. We knew we had something to do with it, but same thing. So you don't need to create distrust and disloyalty and not even just those words, but you don't need to create drama. Yeah, yeah. Don't create the drama. Yeah, that guy's going to go in somewhere. He's getting built somewhere else. Hey, you guys won, everybody.

Yeah, yeah, we're not doing that. Yeah, yeah. We're not doing that. We're not building up our own ego by disparaging someone else's. Let's worry about the whole team. How's that sound? Sounds like a good idea to me. Yeah.

Back to the book. I now have little doubt that. For the first two months in Normandy, we lack two things. Comprehensive and imaginative training and personal experience of battle. We were also seriously handicapped by our casual attitude. Too many junior officers did not think for themselves. And persistently relied on the narrow teaching of battle schools whose dogma had assumed the proportion of holy writ. So whatever he was taught, he was taught.

He was taught that that's the only way you can ever do it and these guys and I've talked about this many times on the on the podcast The goal when I was running training was to actually get the people to think It wasn't get sure you have to establish the baseline standard operating procedures that's great And those need to be rock solid But once those things are established you need to make people understand that you don't always follow them And you need to cut off a piece of that standard operating procedure and insert some other thing and bring it a another standard operating procedure and mix and match them so that you get something that's effective you need to think That's what a leader needs to do and leader needs to think

Back to the book the British infantry platoons and companies were over trained and board stiff with basic infantry tactics Which as far as they went were good much of this training unfortunately had been in the hands of battle school instructors Who themselves lacked battle experience and imagination These tended to become pedagogues Disciples of DS directing staff solution about which no argument

could be tolerated so DS is that he mentions it a bunch is like that's their solution the directing staff you can't argue with them they're the cadre yeah yeah

possibly like most of our entry infantry they suffered some consequences of the pre-rora shortage of creativity intelligent regimental officers too few of them were professionally dedicated to the extent that they could

visualize how battles would be fought and identify the problems that might arise when planning them. They seem to lack the capacity to think relentlessly through these things until solutions were found. Much of their time had been spent policing the British Empire. Also, unlike the Germans, we British instinctively avoid displays of keenness. The enthusiast, particularly if he is innovative, is an embarrassment. thus the battlefield became our teacher and inevitably it exacted a grim price in blood and time so as your training you got to push yourself hard you've got to put yourself in situations and I don't care what you're training for I don't care if you're training for combat in a seal

platoon in an army infantry platoon or if you're in the business world and you're training your leaders to handle situations or you're training you're training you're training you're your customer service reps to handle situations what no matter which one of those you're in You need to push people hard you need to put them in worst case scenario so that they need to learn how they need to learn how to think to get out of those problems I recall with embarrassment An incident at 45th Infantry Divisional Battle School during the spring of 1944 and Exceptantly tall and good-natured Canadian officer had been sent to the school to give a talk on the street fighting he had experienced in Italy It was an interesting talk, but some of his advice ran contrary to that being taught in the school.

When the lecture was over, the chief instructor, with insulting condensation, thank this shy and kindly man for a vivid word picture, and turning to the students, warned us that, as this officer's experience was probably unusual, we had best not stray from the DS solution as taught at that school. So you got a combat veteran coming back with experience from street fighting in Italy and He'd come back with some different tactics and they tell him you don't listen to that guy. That's just a rare case Close mind will get you killed this is starting to talk about their overall Sort of formulation of combat plans and how they operated back to the book the most successful actions by 18 platoon were fought without the support of artillery or armor we had learned in a hard school how to skirmish

infiltrate and edge our way forward the right or left flanking platoon attack so beloved of the battle school staff would rarely succeed in the Normandy Boccage I remember with horror being locked into timetables of meticulously planned large battles these invariably left the junior infantry commander no scope for exploit If you found a gap in the enemy defenses adherence to artillery program which rarely could be altered Effectively stopped any personal initiative so what that's saying is you have these the artillery That's gonna drop bombs. They're gonna bomb or strike with artillery at certain regions and certain times So you might see the enemy running away and you have a chance to gain a superior tactical position

But you can't because you know that that's where the bombs are good that's where the artillery is gonna be hitting in the next 12 minutes So you can't go so now you sit and wait So he got locked in by that. Back to the book. To me, the preparations for these battles assumed the demented proportion of a Kafka-like nightmare ballet in which the anonymous, they, ordained that we must perform a choreographed ritual dance macabre. I felt trapped and helpless. No solo parts were written into the score, nor was their scope for small groups of performers

in this mammoth ballet of machines. Undoubtedly, far shadows from the Somme, that's the Battle of Somme, clouded my emotions, but instinct told me that this kind of show would be unlikely to succeed. The irony was that this support was planned and given to the infantry with the best of intentions. The Somme had cast its shadows on our artillery and armored commanders. Both genuinely believed that in their hands they had the Pansia, which, would protect us the infantry from the terrible slaughter of 1916 instead they put us in a straight jacket so very interesting viewpoint and and it's something that we need to pay attention to because

you've got to be flexible you've got to be flexible and that's exactly what he's talking about and these they would make these plans that were so comprehensive and there was no you weren't allowed to deviate from the plans and when you're not allowed to deviate from the plans and something starts going differently than what you expected You're trapped. Yeah. Back to the book, far too much time

had been spent fitting the infantry and armor junior leaders into the big picture and too little time spent training them and stimulating their imagination,

initiative, and individual resourcefulness to probe, draw conclusions, infiltrate and exploit weakness in the enemy's dispositions. So he's criticizing this lack of initiative,

lack of creativity, and the training to get that initiative creativity back to the book after the first of August 18 platoon never failed in any attack sometimes we took a little longer than planned but we always got there in the end in defense we never lost one yard of ground nor did the enemy ever penetrate our platoon position and we always dominated no man's land with our patrols whether persistent patrolling is always sound policy I will argue elsewhere

So he's saying once he kind of figured it out they didn't lose anymore. They didn't lose any attacks and they didn't give up any ground It talks about the armor our armor was accused of being tiger shy meaning scared of the tiger tanks of the Germans and I don't wonder why The devastation caused by a single hit of an 88 millimeter armor piercing shell needed to be seen to be believed And this is an overall statement for the infantry and armor the British second army the sheer ferocity of the fighting in Normandy came as a solitory shock for which they were in some ways unprepared. So it was devastating for these guys. Now we start pushing out out of Normandy and pushing into the Sien. And here we go.

They're pushing in the next day, 28 August D Company occupied Haricourt. This is the only operation of war that I ever know. to go precisely as planned our supporting field regiments softened up the objective with their 25 pounders the company advanced over open farmland in immaculate formation and consolidated exactly on time the only thing lacking was an enemy total bag one dazed German one dead German and one dead hair rabbit so the only one that ever went well was when there was no enemy to fight against there was There was two Germans one of them was dead the other one was dazed and that was their their last battle in France back to the book experience in Normandy had removed

Anxiety's regarding commanding and understrength platoon so he hasn't had enough men he's supposed to have 36 he's had like 17 18 19 in the attack particularly at night a platoon at full strength is just too big to maneuver quickly three rifle sections of about 20 above about seven men each plus headquarters was ideal in defense it was a different matter the more riflemen on the ground the better our short stay in the menzel Milan gave me time to think the first opportunity to do so since I took command of 18 platoon it also gave me time to meet and talk with other young officers in the battalion it was then that I realized that 18 platoon was no ordinary platoon it had some undefinable magic no quarrels little swearing despite the war that was but despite the war there was something peaceful

about it a helping hand was always available for anybody the emotional links were firm and true I was a happy man so he realizes once he starts talking the other platoon commanders he's got this really special platoon that gets along great and he's he realizes it back to the book no young officer can command a platoon in battle on his own in Normandy I'd seen platoon commanders served by poor NCOs struggling to gain some semblance of control over their bewildered and frightened men I'd also seen platoons with good NCOs go to pieces in the hands of an indifferent officer Jim Kingston Doug Proctor

and Owen Cheesman set the standard end tone for 18 platoon without them I as the platoon commander would have joined the ranks of so many poor young officers who never achieved grip now to another he's putting together another plan as they're advancing it and obviously this is a long book I'm doing an abridged version hitting some highlights you should get the book obviously get the book by the book back to the book at zero 400 hours on 24th of September Douglas this is the new company commander Douglas Douglas held a long O group by candlelight in the cellar of the farmhouse at which much to his annoyance I kept falling asleep we were ordered to advance straight eastward down a narrow country lane from the orchard to the main road and consolidate after the O group and O group is what they call like when their when their officers get together and pass the word they called O group after the O group I made myself Unpopular by asking why we're advancing towards an area of considerable German opposition when my patrol had found a better route

By which we might outflank the enemy So that so he's saying hey wait why because his patrol his platoon had been out on a patrol and found a better route and he's asking why And he kind of gets shut down I was just 20 years old at the time and And even then I knew I was incapable of disputing orders without giving a fence We started at zero six hundred hours two platoons leading on either side of the track the third following in single file down the track itself on either side were the small holdings We're small holdings a few allotments and bungalows Surrounded by small picket fences

The platoons advanced through the gardens and vegetable patches and passed on either side of the bungalows the rear section searched each one quickly and while they're searching these little bungalows as they're on patrol they find this back to the book during one of these hurried searches one section found a Dutch family the widages father mother son and daughter riddled by schmitzer fire that's a German machine gun they lay in awkward postures of death amid their ransacked home a visit from the SS No tears came nor did they come a half an hour later when we came upon the charred wreckage of an American Dakota It had carried US parachute troops of the 82nd Airborne Division and their torn and burnt bodies littered the orchard like charred and mutilated rag dolls

There was a further irony Attached to the front window in what remained of the Dakota's cockpit was a tiny teddy bear untouched by floor two months before a lonely teddy bear and an impersonal pool of blood had brought forth tears now I was collected and objective when faced within the span of 30 minutes with an atrocious murder and mass carnage by fire and he's referring there in the beginning of the book one of his first experiences he's by a slit trench and there's a dead guy soldier in it and there's a little teddy bear and and for some reason you know he's young he's inexperienced and it gets gets makes him super emotionally starts crying and and now he's a little further in the war he sees you know this horrible murdered family and these tragically you know burned and killed paratroopers and he's able to detach emotionally from it back to the book the enemy decided to make life unpleasant for us

as possible by sudden unpredictable concentrations of heavy artillery right in the middle of our company area We called them stonks so he's gonna use that word it just means we're getting bombed One of these shells unfortunately fell right into one of 16 platoon slit trenches No trace remained of the two men that were Manning in it manning a brin In my platoon Lance Corporal Jack Lee and private Peter Filmer were buried in the trench they shared other members of their section quickly dug them out unharmed very dirty and remarkably cheerful the self-propelled guns increased their activities filling the sky above the company with ugly black air bursts they could place these with uncanny accuracy to burst about 25 feet above the road junction outside company headquarters the casualties mounted company sergeant major Sammy Jones and spot

Martin the Jeep driver were both hit outside company H.Q. It was Sammy Jones who committed the battalion's only atrocity. Late one summer evening as the shadows from high trees and hedges fell across a small field in Normandy, we took some young Woffon SS soldiers prisoner. One of them, a short, stocky, and fair youth of about 18, proved insultingly truckingly, Casing the young lout by the scruff of his neck samri roared you can take that glint out of your eyes my boy and putting the wretched youth across his knees He gave his backside a sound whacking that is legit and that's again you know Sidney Jerry and he talks about How proud he is that his men is his men's behavior is so upstanding throughout this whole miserable experience and even when they see atrocities committed like by the SS

they still maintain their discipline and their character and this is this is what he does oh you're a little punk kid I'm gonna spank you you know tough little SS soldier getting put over the knee and spanked so after the attack so now this is again This is happening after one of these attacks and and the whole the whole basic premise of this book is attack rest attack rest attack rest so as I'm reading I'm kind of picking out some of the attacks that they're going on and they're just moving through France and then through Germany that's what it is I should have explained that earlier but this is after one of the attacks it's interesting he says this

smiling faces vanished and the gray look returned once more men walked with one air cocked in the air for approaching shells and with a slight stoop if you remember what I'm talking about JP I was talking about how like you see guys they have this natural little stoop yeah that's what he's talking about mm and JP didn't have no stoop if he was standing up like you stoopless he was not yeah he was stupeless he was stoopless he was standing up ready to get some but these guys as and it's contrasted because when they're on the attack They go into like JP mode.

They're standing up straight. They're ready to get some. But then once they're on the defense and they're just waiting to get shelled, they start to stoop. They start to crouch a little bit. He continues. Back to the book. The jokes began to peter out and the cheerful good morning sir ceased.

When I went around the platoons at Stan 2. Moral was always hired during an attack. Sitting around and being shelled is not an occupation to be recommended. So there's a good. lesson there if you or your team is being defensive about things your morale is going to go down because you're waiting to get hit so go out and hit somebody you know go on the attack don't wait around don't let your morale drown here's another attack back to the book scrambling out of the culvert we set a fast pace up the side of the road to a company's positions

this immediately brought small arms fired down on us but by then we were then two 200 yards of their slit trenches, so on we ran as fast as we could. Being soaked, I began to steam. My boots squelched and seemed to drag me back, clawing at my feet as in a bad dream and stopping me from reaching the inviting cover of the slit trenches. A company was dug in with two platoons forward in an orchard face to face with the enemy who were in dikes only a few yards beyond. The third platoon was to the right rear protecting the open flank and company headquarters

to the left rear centered on some farm buildings it was to these farm buildings that we ran hurling ourselves onto the straw on the barn floor we lay panting and gasping for breath john a cock a company commander appeared round the door of the barn he looked haggard and worn i doubt he had slept for a week the whole company area was covered by the most intense spandau fire and defensive and the defensive battle here was one of fire supremacy which the Germans had undoubtedly won a company's morale was low they had just lost Harry Barnes one of the platoon commanders who refusing to take cover strutted about in his usual manner he took a complete burst of spandow fire under the arm

Harry was an amazing and fearless fellow who didn't care a damn for anything even after the burst hit him he still lived for about three hours the men respected Harry and with their idols shot down in front of them they were very jumpy another time you have to watch out for morale obviously now if you remember this book started in the summertime and now we're starting to get towards fall and this this was something I'd never thought about before When fall comes, you know, the sun is up for a shorter period of time. So here we go back to the book.

The nights became longer and the dawns gray and chilly. The sunsets were red and vivid and the days, though beautiful, shortened rapidly. As the nights lengthened, the hours of stag lengthened and with them the mental and physical fatigue of the company. So they have to stay up, you know, rotate through watches at night. You just don't get to sleep the whole time. So if it's if it's dark for longer, you got to stay awake longer at night. So it's starting to wear on the company itself. Back to the book, there was there is one incident small room when remembered by itself in a life of such incidents

but very but to me very vivid in my platoon there was a young lad aged 18 named Biddle He was of slight of build fair and looked a mere child He had a pleasant personality and was liked by everyone He had joined the company at La Menzel Milan after we had crossed the sien at Vernon in August One morning there was a crack and a short interval of silence soon the shout went out stretcher bearers echoed through the orchard I ran towards the commotion and saw Biddle writhing in agony on the ground at first he looked on hurt but as I tore open his tunic I saw a clear wound through his abdomen coming out by his spine he soon became numb and was no longer in pain but was very frightened and shivered we dragged him back behind the house and applied field dressings to his stomach and his back in case the wound started to bleed his young life solely ebbing from his body our stretcher bearers quietly and reverently carried him away the scene is now too poignant to remember

without shedding a tear after Biddle had been evacuated the morale of the platoon dropped while standing in his slit trench by a sniper at least 300 yards away and you know it's it's interesting and I didn't go into this part but there's a part earlier in the book where He basically disparages somewhat the use of snipers

and he talks about how they usually don't gain you anything but it's interesting what it does to the morale of a platoon isn't it? And he doesn't completely know he explains that there's usage and there's believe me

there's probably no bigger believer in the use of snipers in the world than me but it's interesting you know he he he basically you can tell he's a very guy with you know this extremely high moral character and he kind of gets the feeling when he explains it that you know he didn't feel comfortable with sniping because people aren't expecting it there's not a battle happening he felt like it was a cheap shot hmm interesting but it's interesting the effect that it actually has on his platoon in this moment here we're gonna get to a point he's got Germans are in a

dyke they're just ahead of 18 18 platoon and 18 platoon is kind of pinned down and remember this character from earlier Dennis Clark Dennis Clark was the was the guy that pulled him aside and said hey you need to take command of this company well like I said Dennis Clark or I thought I'd remember and I was right Dennis Clark was a was an artillery guy that called an artillery so here we go back to the book I was saved by captain Dennis Clark M.C. Our tame gunner Dennis had a virtuoso touch where 25-pounders were concerned

Sniping with one gun that should get the buggers out he said with total confidence Moving his 19 set into my that's a radio moving his 19 set into my platoon position No easy task in daylight. He gave us a display of the most brilliant professionalism we had come to expect from the night 4th field regiment by firing with only one gun and making his mean point of impact beyond the dike containing the Germans he slowly decreased the the range yard by yard until one shell exploded in the dyke out came five very wet and shaken panzer grenadiers during this episode all the platoon had to remain in the bottom of their slit trenches because Dennis' shells came over our positions with minimum clearance.

I doubt if any experienced infantry officer would deny that the Royal Artillery during the Second World War were the most professionally competent people in the British Army. So again, an interesting dichotomy, because in the beginning, he talks about how the artillery can trap them, because it's being used in this broad plan that's locking in where there's no deviation. But here He's talking about how brilliant it is because he's directly coordinating with it He's explaining to the artillery officer where to put those rounds What the problem is and then letting the artillery officer solve it

So there's a dichotomy there just like there's a dichotomy with the snipers Back to the book after a few more days in the orchard We were becoming increasingly exhausted and our fighting efficiency deteriorated This condition existed not only in my company but throughout the battalion Consequently, the news of a move back to rest came as a colossal relief to us all. But we did not know who is going to take over our positions. The takeover was to be at night and was to be carried out as quickly as possible. If the enemy discovered it, a determined attack could cause endless confusion and slaughter.

During the late afternoon of one particularly unpleasant day, Douglas appeared, that's the company commander, appeared with an American captain and two lieutenants from a parachute battalion. of the 101st airborne division. They padded around the company area in their rubber-souled boots with the eyes of the whole company following them. So the 101st is coming in to relieve them. Having reconnoitered our area,

the Americans returned to the company HQ to discuss administrative points for the takeover. The plan was for the American company commander to bring his company down the main road and single file along the edge of the ditch. When the head of the column reached our company HQ, they would be met by guides from each of our platoons to lead the American platoons to their positions.

As soon as they were on the ground, our platoons would withdraw and assemble on the road. This may sound simple in practice, but at night in close contact with the enemy, it certainly was not. This type of operation leaves two companies particularly vulnerable during the handover. A determined enemy could attack and turn the operation into a massacre. This is one of, and I've said this before on the podcast, one of the hardest, things to do is link up with friendly forces on the battlefield and if you're under fire It's it's even harder so this one they're trying to do it not under fire trying to sneak and make it happen Back to the book the rest of the day was spent packing making sure the enemy noticed nothing of this antit

activity we put our spare ammunition onto the carriers with great coats and blankets the whole afternoon was strangely quiet There was no activity from the enemy and we in turn kept quiet The sun went down amid a fiery looking east the sky was threateningly gray I went around I went round my positions with sergeant Kingston before the Americans arrived all my men look tired and could hardly muster a smile as I went from slit to slit many had contained two men and now contained only one together with some momento of his former mate a mess tin or a blood-stained jacket even a packet of

cigarettes wet and limp with dew I wondered how many more momentos would be there when the Americans were relieved about an hour later the Americans arrived they loomed up in the darkness by the roadside padding along in their rubber-souled boots without a whisper I thought at the time what splendid troops they were and how excellent their equipment I was particularly impressed by the silent and quick way they were led by their squad commanders to our section positions so there come the Americans who leave them the hundred and first airborne division who's just outstanding soldiers they're just awesome and we worked with them I mean one of my plato in Ramadi worked with you

lived with them the first of the five oh six the band of brothers and You can tell their reputation that the guys in Ramadi upheld that standard in every possible way, but it's rooted all the way back to these soldiers right here Sounds like this is what struck me when I read that I was like oh this this that that tradition of Excellence in that unit has gone from World War II from these guys right here and it's that same attitude that I saw with guys in Ramadi The same attitude now he makes it statement here about this whole big operation which was called market garden which was this giant operation to try and cut off the Germans seize multiple bridges and there was three bridges they were trying to seize and it it didn't reach its full effect it wasn't like a complete mission success

they didn't achieve every objective that they wanted to so here we go back to the book market garden was a sad operation complete success coming so close At a stroke, the war in Europe could have been finished in 1944. Undoubtedly, mistakes were made both by the first airborne division, particularly their planners, and also by 30 Corps, and there was no shortage of bad luck. However, in my experience, most battles are riddled with misfortunes and mistakes and of the sort found in this operation. It was not a failure because the ground was taken and a prerequisite to both Operation Veritable and the Rhine crossing. So it wasn't like a total failure. Back to the book, I'm convinced that had the Supreme Commander General Eisenhower given Mark and Garden the unqualified support that it justified, it would have totally succeeded, despite its crop of tactical errors and planning and execution.

I suppose it was just one more casualty of the American mania for dispersal of effort However it was without a doubt the most exciting and imaginatively planned battle in which 18 platoon ever fought and I'm proud to have taken part So he's talking about the focus of effort he's talking about You if you spread yourself out too thin you're not gonna you're not gonna make it happen we call that prioritized and execute What's the biggest priority? Let's put our resources there They didn't do that and therefore didn't get a full mission success now of course what resources were there what was available there's no one has unlimited resources no one if you have that you have no

issues right you just crushed problems with manpower all right so now they're moving beyond market garden and planning actually planning he's planning a patrol through a village back to the book battle school teaching at the time prescribed a strength of 12 to 20 for a fighting patrol here again my instincts and experience did not conform to their teaching he's a rebel how can you command and control that number of men in the dark particularly in a skirmish Douglas the company commander tolerant of the absent absinency of my opinions on these matters left the planning to me so cool Douglas is a little decentralized command you

figure out your plan then I like this the composition of the patrol I based on personalities and not on a battle school or day number So imagine that you're you're planning based on the personalities of the individuals you have The countryside being comparatively open I decided to take a brand gun being steady Williams and Filmer would fill the bill admirably If we ran into trouble they could provide covering fire for any assault we might make or if things went badly they could cover our withdrawal Cover and move Obviously, the assault party required strengthening, so I decided to take a total patrol strength of six men, one Bren with seven magazines, and three armed with stens with five magazines,

and four thirty-six grenades each, plus a pair of wire cutters. I carried my colt, four grenades, and an umbrella. My umbrella had been a source of amusement to the platoon since I had found it on the roadside in Mook. Apart from keeping me dry, in or out of a slit trench, it was useful. when prodding for mines and brought some fun and color to our lives. Jim Kingston and Doug Proctor thought otherwise, maintaining a disapproving silence which I failed to notice.

So now they're out on patrol. Moving down the bank to the right, we crawled forward in the mud and wet grass until we were almost past the orchard, from which came the sound of digging and voices. Suddenly a challenge came from our front, followed by a shower of stick grenades thrown from a trench just inside the orchard on our left.

One of the grenades landed between my legs which were stretched out and spread apart as I lay flat on the riverbank There was no flash its explosion seemed muffled and more importantly owing to the soft mud I received not a scratch The game was up now the concentrated fire of the three stands poured into the German into the surprise Germans putting away my pistol I threw three thirty six grenades in quick succession into the orchard hurriedly reaching from my umbrella which eluded me and then ignominiously ignominiously We beat a retreat so he gets a grenade throw on him and actually had this happening to you bruiser some guys were out on a patrol They were in an open field they had cover from one side because they had pre-planned how they were in across his field and while they were out there They got hit with machine gun fire and then mortars and they got mortars dating like on them and

and Luckily because it was they were in like a muddy field Like almost rice paddy scenario the mortars when they hit they went into the mud and so they exploded but there was no all the The strap and all absorbed by the mud. That's a lucky day for D.U. Bruiser right there Boys were a little fired up when they came back from that one now they get back into a defensive perimeter I remember Knights and defensive positions Like Grosbeak stretched out in a slit trench trying to get an hour's sleep before going around the platoon positions to check that everything and everyone was all right One felt and was dirty and in the small hours of the morning with boot laces cutting into swollen feet a foul tasting mouth and an aching stomach

Life had little to commend it The dirt and discomfort worried me more than the danger Danger for some reason that I've never understood exhilarates But despite every effort to keep clean, it did not always prove possible, and that was unbearable. Never once since have I not been grateful to sink into a hot bath or slide into a bed with clean sheets. We went to extraordinary lengths to keep the dirt at bay. Once in Normandy, I washed and shaved in the rainwater in the deep ruts made by carts. afterwards I discovered that 400 yards away the opposition had been overlooking my ablutions

A decent lot who obviously approved of my personal hygiene so they didn't kill him Hey, this guy's just trying to be clean. Let's let him continue Back to the book during the campaign 18 platoon carried out three types of patrols reconnaissance standing and fighting the first two invariably useful because they provided information if only negative fighting patrols of which I led many were a different and contentious proposition unlike the German and American armies we had a vigorous policy regarding fighting patrols particularly at night and when things were static on both sides on the defense the thinking behind this policy

seemed to me at times to be superficial and probably left over from the great war World War I if when detailed for a fighting patrol young officers queried the wisdom of its given object there was always the standard reply i quite agree with you but it all helps to dominate no man's land there is undoubtedly a certain validity of this argument but was it worth the consequent loss of good young officers and nCOs i doubt it shortly after the war i was able to briefly voice my reservations to me my illustrious army group commander that's Montgomery by the way after giving me my MC that's military cross ribbon he stepped back and said crisply patrolling is bloody isn't it when I stammered that it seemed a bit hard that it was always the same people chosen for patrols he replied with a twinkle his eye one day you'll command a battalion and you'll understand the problem for a 20-year-old subaltern exchange like this with a field marshal was

heady stuff but Monty's mischievous humor and utter lack of pomposity coupled with his single-minded professionalism extended his personal influence to the most junior soldier in 21st Army group we felt we knew him and that he knew us often he did so that's a great little interaction You know, he says patrolling is bloody work, isn't it? And, and Sydney, Jerry says, yeah, and the thing is, it seems like it's always the same platoons that get made to do the patrolling. And he says one day when you're in charge of a battalion, you'll understand why that is. And the reason why that is, because you've got the good guy, and that's the guy you're going to send out.

You're going to rely on the people that get it done. This isn't interesting. We've got another patrol that they're getting ready to have to go out on. and the patrol was to probe between the roads and advance if possible as far as the forest Beyond this its purpose was indeed vague Douglas called me and another platoon commander to company HQ and explained it to us He then suggested we should toss a coin for it An embarrassing situation arose I thought that the winner would lead the patrol The other officer anticipated that the loser would I lost the toss and got the job so so so

Imagine that you and me are saying all right there's a dangerous patrol we're gonna have to do Let's flip for it I'm thinking heads If I win I get to do the patrol you're thinking if you win you don't have to do the patrol Right, right Not everyone was quite as fired up I guess as a city Jerry was and they wrap up A relatively kind of Uneventful patrol relatively uneventful patrol and he

Returns and they're having a cup of tea and some biscuits Sure In true British form Back to the book It was then that I suddenly realized that I had been commanding 18 platoon for three months To be precise three months and two days Before I joined the battalion in mid-July I had been warned

That my life expectancy would be about three weeks It seems strange to me now But at no time did I anticipate being either wounded or killed I was just too busy for thoughts like these and I had become totally absorbed in my grim responsibilities in July I had been ridden by doubt about my ability in my innocence I had expected success in battle to be the prerogative of a Victor Laudorum which is like the champion I now had no such doubts or illusions. Furthermore, I had discovered just how much soldiers resent and fear a young officer who

sees battle as a means to win his spurs, possibly at the cost of their lives. So when you roll in and you're Mr. beating your chest and you're going to prove yourself to the world, yeah. Don't be that guy. because you're going to write checks with my life and we don't like that my duty had become clear to me it was to command 18 platoon with quiet confidence providing I made them only once my mistakes would be forgiven if my soldiers were to go were going to place their very lives in my hands they in return were criered of me a serious attitude to my profession

If I could achieve this with a light touch so much the better. That's an interesting comment. So, you know, he's saying, look, what they require is I got to be serious. I got to be as serious as possible. And it's like you ever heard the term minimum force required? Yes. Yeah, you probably use that as a bouncer, right? Hey, you've got to use the minimum force required.

So what he's saying is that as a leader, the lighter touch the better. The lightest touch you can use to lead is better. That's a pretty cool statement. That's a good thing to think about How can you lead with minimum force? Every time you go and you use more than you Then you need you're you're over-exerting Right and who knows what kind of you know you're taking away initiative you might be stamping out morale So lead with that minimum time so in this point they're in a They're in a position And there's three of these Mark 3, 75 millimeter self-propelled assault guns.

So they kind of look like tanks. They got big tracks. They're Germans. They're German. And they're sitting out in front of them. They're in a static position. The company's in a static position. And there's these tanks sitting there.

Three of them. And Douglas looks at them and he's thinking himself, hey, I don't know what those. They look like they're functioning. They don't look damaged. And so Douglas is saying, okay, well, we need to find out what's going on. Even if there's no one, even if there's no one in them right now, it could be a place where they use snipers later. So someone's got to go check him out. So Sidney Jerry, the guy, he goes out alone, kind of sneaks out there.

He does stuff alone a little bit more often. Actually, he does stuff alone. There's another story I didn't mention, but at one point, they're, He hears noise like one of the guys reports it's nighttime and they hear they hear noise in this field They think there's enemy out there and he's like well, there's one way to find out So he I think he does grab another guy in this occasion, but he goes out and he's going through this field and it's like a cornfield or something and he can't see and he's He's trying to think of a reason to quit He's like I just want to go back this isn't smart and as he's as this is taking place and this is just

is climaxing all of a sudden he hears a bunch of cows in the field yeah so he's doing another solo operation here trying to find out what these tank like assault guns are doing out there back to the book climbing up above the tracks I put my head into the cupola which was open a familiar and terrible stench hit me inside was a sharnel house six inches away a set of bared teeth set in unrecognizable black and incinerated lump grinned at me beside it a charred and bony arm reached up in agony spread on the floor like a pool of tar lay the melted remains of the driver i had entered dante's inferno my head reeled and with my mouth nose and lungs filled with the stench of death i

fell back to the ground. Although unmarked by fire on all on our side, all three assault guns had brewed up and were blackened on their sides which faced the enemy. With no stomach to look further, I ran back to the company forgetting to look for American minds. Never again did I look into a knocked out tank or self-propelled gun. I reported to Douglas that nobody in their right mind would use them for an observation post or for any other purpose later that day he asked that's Douglas asked the commander of a Sherman tank to fire some armor piercing shells into each of them positioning his tank hold down beside 16 platoon's positions which were to our left the tank commanders the tank commander first selected the assault gun I had visited

his first shell hit it slightly above the tracks like the hammer of Vulcan A red glow blossomed on the armor plate around the point of entry and slowly faded. It was followed by a second and third shell until a mirage of heat appeared above it, and for a second time the funeral pyre blazed with an incandescent ferocity. The Sherman Gunner then turned his attention to the next assault gun, which, despite being penetrated by about six armor-piercing rounds, failed to brew up. His first shot at the third caused a massive internal detonation, no doubt due to ammunition stacked within. A volcano erupted from its coppola, sending a dense cloud of black smoke and red sparks into the air. A truly Wagnarian end for the warriors entombed within, but it revolted me.

For the rest of the day, I brooded. This communicated itself to me. my NCOs and soldiers who stole mystified glances at my grief for an unknown enemy. During the afternoon I wandered across the road to a lone house where Dennis Clark had his observation post. I was looking for solace from a wise and good friend. The post was filled with gunner officers. There must have been a dozen of them setting up their equipment in preparation for an attack

by 214 Brigade. activity precluded any solace for me immature and undisciplined my imagination ran riot what were they like these men whose already incinerated remains had been blasted into oblivion by the 75 millimeter shells of our friend in the Sherman my attitude to war was ambivalent undoubtedly I was part pacifist but despite an abysmal record in mathematics and particularly in geometry I was moderately logical for my age this clearly ruled out total dedication to pacifism I had previously discussed the concept of conscientious objection

with clergy of all denominations but none of them could give me constructive answers to my questions the privations and suffering of 18 platoon hurt me an infantry subaltern is faced with a conflict which cannot be resolved one gets emotionally involved with those under one's command without this bond few men will respond and consequently little can be achieved however to win battles decisions have to be taken and orders given which at times may seem to be a betrayal of this trust before battle the commander must exude confidence and enthusiasm whatever fears his private thoughts may hold just how thin a line divides this from deliberate deception I call it the commander's dilemma a pretentious phrase but there is nothing to be done about it in nicholas

montserrat's book the cruel sea poor commander ericotson makes the point with poignancy it's the war the whole bloody war we've just got to do these things and say our prayers at the end there was another side possibly caused by adrenaline danger attracted and excited me I felt elated and until the battle was over

I was impervious to exhaustion commanding a platoon in battle demands not only a clear mind but also considerable emotional force I suspect it is the same transmitted force that exists between a conductor and orchestra. Forty years later, the dilemma of my ambivalence is still unresolved. I find the suffering inflicted by war unacceptable, particularly amongst women, children, and animals. Thank God I was spared the horrific sights at fillets.

On some days, I am a pacifist. and yet I'm still attracted by the sounds of guns and but for an extraordinarily happy marriage would have found it difficult to resist the lore of soldiering so what he calls the commander's dilemma is what I call the dichotomy of leadership and that one is the premier of them all and that is as a leader as a combat leader you are going to love your men and care about them more than anything else in the world and with that you are going to make decisions and make plans where you are sending those men into a situation where they can be wounded or killed and that's it and that is the

ultimate dichotomy of leadership that is the hardest one to balance back to the book a new officer arrived named Humphreys he used to play cricket for Worcestershire he came on the same day that sergeant oxlin received a well-earned commission in the field douglas told him about sergeant oxland and with great consideration he went to 17 platoon's position to offer his congratulations While they talked, just one salvo of 105 straddled them. One shell fell into second lieutenant Oxlin's slit trench and both were killed instantly. Like me, Ken Oxlin has survived five months.

Humphreys survived not a full day. Is there a mathematical formula by which survival can be calculated? Who are the survivors and can they be recognized? Over the past 40 years, I've often pondered this, but still offer no real answer. I suspect, however, that is something to do with attitude. Attitude seems to me to be a parameter, which restricts not only our relationships, but also our creative effort. Further comment is unwise. Humphreys, one could argue, had little time to develop an attitude to our kind of existence.

undoubtedly a self-fulfilling circle develops newcomers inexperienced in the perils of the battlefield suffered the highest casualties knowledge of what can and what cannot be risked postpones the fatal reckoning for the soldier for the commander however junior battlefield experience will not only protect himself but also all those under his command and that's the that's why training is So important. So important. And that's why when I got done with, you know, deployment to Ramadi, that's why I went to training Because I knew that right there And I was thinking, you know, I didn't know how long the war was going to last and when we left Ramadi

Ramadi was still horrible and when the task unit came in relieved us man, they were getting after it And I didn't know how long that was going to last. I mean it ended up not lasting that much longer that kind of intense fighting but it was impossible to tell at that time we were just barely seeing stuff start to get start to get better at the end of our deployment just barely started to see the first indications of that the fifth Duke of Cornwall's light infantry had attempted to attack Hoven village through these ghastly woods and had taken heavy casualties their rain-soaked bodies littered the paths and clearings while carrying out a reconnaissance I came across one of their sections lying along a small path facing the enemy at first I thought them alive until I saw that the studs on their boots were rusty and their webbing equipment was bleached with rain

Their battle dress was starched with mud and their hands and faces were green German booby traps were on or near many of the tracks and I was told by the company commander of the fourth Wilchers from whom we took over the position that some of the bodies were also booby-trapped don't try to bury them he said I was temporarily commanding the company because Douglas had been given a well-deserved leave in Brussels although militarily comparatively uneventful Hoven has a special place in my memories it was without a doubt my most the most grisly and horrifying position that we ever hold held but more importantly it was the place of price at Charles Raven's triumph.

Raven had fought in all our battles since Hill 112, which to him was a yardstick of horror. All subsequent experience was compared with that, his first battle. He was no soldier. I doubt if he influenced greatly any of the skirmishes, encounters, or battles in which he took part. Sometimes he was frightened, and he was so out of place on the battlefield that I often wondered how he became. infantry soldier before the war he had been a clerk in North London I'm sure he was a conscientious and loyal employee and a considerate and loving husband for unlike most of us he was married raven had hidden depths and could be inspired once in

Normandy during a nasty little platoon attack up a sunken lane 18 platoon was held up by the inevitable unlocated spandos straining my eyes through binoculars I was trying vainly to locate these guns when I was handed a steaming mug of tea he should have been observing to his front but judging the moment right he had brewed a mess tin of tea on a solid fuel stove by any standards this was an inspired act he was considerate with our reinforcements, pale, unsure men, some of whom, until recently, had served in the royal artillery and had been transferred to infantry regiments to replace the appalling losses incurred in the Normandy Boccage.

Beside them, Raven looked bronzed and weather-beaten, a hardened campaigner, complete with a German Luger pistol to prove it. Some of the platoon regaled the reinforcements with horrible tales from Normandy and Elst. As little more than a schoolboy, I found these stories amusing. Raven did not. Fear for him was horribly real and never to be joked about. He developed a paternal attitude toward the newer and younger soldiers, a relationship devoid of patronage, but essentially one of kindly understanding.

He spoke to me about it when I thanked him for his help. I admit I'm dead windy, sir. His extraordinary honesty with himself and the rest of the platoon forbade him to attempt to hide the fact. Raven had overtaxed his nervous and physical resources long before we arrived in Hoven Woods. After two days in the position, he came to me late one evening and asked my permission to report sick the following morning. I suppose I should emphatically have refused, but something made me hesitate and avoid dealing directly with the situation I said simply all right Raven but do come see me before you leave he didn't come The matter was never again mentioned I can only surmised the struggle which raged in his mind all that night

While he crouched in his waterlogs slit trench peering into the sinister darkness of the wood I do know however that in Hovenwood a considerable moral triumph over stark horror was achieved by a good man Unequipped for nature Unequipped by nature for war In my view the bravest of the brave So that guy raven had been through all this stuff and Just barely held the line and finally he was gonna break

Finally he was gonna break and he comes to Sidney Jerry and says hey I'm gonna go sick tomorrow Sidney Jerry says okay come and see me before you go He doesn't come back. It doesn't come back to him, doesn't go sick. The book, Infantry Warfare is wretched business. It makes physical and emotional demands on participants that run contrary to all human instinct. The strong minority must quietly help the weak majority.

To me, that is the essence of good teamwork. And that jewel in the crown of the British Army, the regimental system is the strong foundation upon which we all knowingly or unknowingly relied so there's going to be some people that deal with it better than others and you got to help them here's a situation they set up early warning flares so little trip wires in case due to to notify them if the enemy's moving down one of their flanks and here we go back to the book after about 10 minutes had passed we heard the popping of mortars behind Hoven Village and a concentration of bombs fell in the fields where we had laid the flares

Suddenly our left flank was Vividly illuminated as flare after flare ignited Knowing little about these flares we had laid them with the trip wires to top Had we allowed a degree of slack the flares would not have ignited My fault I should have known to throw a little extreme ownership from Sydney Jerry in there for y'all Sure now he's talking about the attitudes of the soldiers and how soldiers you know there was a claim he read an article years after the war that said that people you know people became brutal

from the from the war and here's what he says back to the book does war brutalize one can only speak from personal experience but I think not certainly no soldier of mine was made brutal rather the opposite war developed an 18 platoon consideration for comrades and humanity towards civilians and prisoners of war. I was proud of my soldiers then and this sentiment has increased with the passing of years. I would not suggest that the naturally brutal might not find in war an outlet for their brutality. However, that war does not brutalize the type of decent men, the type of decent and fair-minded young Englishmen whom I had the very great honor. to command we were not an aggressive generation a fact which may explain my

failure to understand some present-day attitudes in the armed services particularly in the Royal Marines and the parachute regiment possibly a degree of personal aggression is appropriate in troops are come who are committed to battle for comparatively short periods like the Marines and the paris when the success of an operation depends on ultra-rapid action however in my experience troops lose personal aggression after about two months in battle after three months they acquire a mature compassion which in no way detracts from their offensive capability they simply know a lot more about war I would suggest that

personal aggression should not be confused with offensive spirit based on professional competence and experience interesting take that aggression that you can maintain if you it's not gonna last forever and and then you're gonna have to fall back on duty and and that mature compassion which isn't taken away from their offensive capability at the book on the 11th of January we returned to the south of fine you know just to go back to that one piece right there dichotomy leadership there's a dichotomy in everything and you know obviously I'm a big proponent of being aggressive and I also always talk about the fact that there is such a things being too aggressive

You're running to your death. No not a good idea Not a good idea and there's probably a good chance that when he talks about people After two months of combat everyone starts to develop a different type of attitude also the people that were ultra aggressive didn't make it Like the like the leader that he talked about that was strutting around The guy was ultra aggressive didn't care about anything and he's dead Yeah So there's a balance you got to have that's the dichotomy of leadership That's why the economy of leadership is so important

And so hard to understand Back to the book on the day after the battalion was relieved in Hoven Woods Someone I suspect I suspect it was the adjutant Tim Watson decided that I should enjoy 48 hours on leave in Antwerp I was overjoyed The large hotel, although faded, was still plushed and filled with officers, including women, ATS officers, from the various base units stationed in the city. Just as I had left the battlefield, I was both disheveled and soiled. Surrounded by the residents, many of whom were in service dress, I could not have felt more isolated and lonely.

So he's getting some leave time, but he's showing up off the battlefield grimy. my first visit was to a magnificent white marble gentleman's hairdressing salon in the basement of a hotel Without a word the barber washed and rinsed my hair twice before touching it with his precious scissors and clippers I remember the feeling of well-being as climbing the stairs I returned to my room Next I took three very hot baths one after the other to rid myself of grime both physical and emotional I think I must have slept for 14 hours before I rose shaved took another bath and decided to explore the city a rather creased battle dress was my best suit and in this I descended the main staircase into the lounge which was filled with the

resident officers all of whom seemed to be annoyingly self-assured I met a barrier I had walked out of a world that I knew into one where I was desperately unsure of myself away from the battlefield this world had no place for me I did not go out to lunch go to nightclubs or meet the girls who were everywhere seemed to be canvassing for these establishments I had wandered too far into dark and smoky battlefields across the sticks to find solace or comfort and the bright lights behind the blackout curtains of Antwerp, I longed to return to the battalion and to 18 platoon, which, without my knowing it, had become my home. With a light heart,

a clean body, freshly laundered clothes, and refreshed by hours of unbroken sleep, I gladly climbed into the three-ton truck that took me there. Years later, I found the same problem after I left the army. Antwerp had been a small taste of the real world and as anyone who has served with good soldiers on grim battlefields will confirm afterwards real life never seems real again. Later there was no 18 platoon to slink back to and without a loving wife it would have proved intolerable. Well that's the feeling that that we get When you get done doing that job and real life never seems real again in comparison I know the vets that are listening to understand that part back to the book on 11 January

we returned to the south of Holland this time to gang ganglet snow lay on deeply frozen ground and life for the and life for the infantry manning their slit trenches became unbearable again the battalion front was extensive D company was in reserve close close to battalion headquarters on the edge of town fortunately gang out was on a reverse slope which allowed us to move freely during daylight hours the cold was penetrating the oil in our automatic weapons froze and until anti-freeze lubricants were issued our brands were useless holding a wide front with large gaps between our company positions necessitated putting out many standing patrols particularly at night the privations suffered by these small patrols usually a corporal and three or four men were harder than the rest of us

some had hallucinations and if you were exact evacuated suffering from exposure keeping fit warm and clean became a great effort conversation dried up The platoon became quiet but never morose at one stage I decided they needed cheering up and I wandered around the section post ready to chat with all of them It was quite unnecessary. I had wrongly judged their mood They just wanted to be left alone now there's a buy the book and read the book there's a chaotic bottle battle at a place called cleave and after the battle at cleave he kind of debriefs here back to the book what instructors at the school of infantry would think about the fighting cleave I shudder to think it resembled no other battle in my experience I had little control and it developed into a section commander's battle looking back over the years it seems military the totally

unprofessional a real Wild West shootout tactically the Germans had every advantage we were strung out in a long column amid shattered buildings and piles of rubbles with the groups of parachute troops attacking from both sides they could snipe at us and engage with our with their spandows from dozens of positions totally hidden by piles of rubble they had the opportunity to concentrate their counter attacks on the narrowest of fronts but failed to do to do so so they failed to focus their efforts I can only assume that we had the psychological advantage the circumstances being so chaotic and disorganized perhaps being

Germans they cannot overcome their instinct for organization and tidiness in the end they departed possibly in disgust leaving us undisputed victors the Germans at this point are retreating and they can see that they're retreating fearing that the retreating parachute troops would make a stand on the edge of the wood I increased the rate of advance joining Lance Corporal Porteus in the forward section running across the level crossing I suddenly found myself face-to-face with a German platoon complete with MG 34 fortunately the gun was mounted on a tripod which was unusual and could not be traversed in our direction from a drainage channel on the left of

the road a parachutist leaped up swathed and camouflaged veil pointing his schmeisser at me from about 10 yards range he fired a whole magazine of about 30 rounds It was like watching a slow running silent movie. I didn't hear the chatter of the smizer, but I do remember seeing the stream of empty cartridge cases fly from the German machine gun. Miracles do indeed happen. One 9mm bullet went through my beret, missing my head literally by a hair's width. Another went under the epaulet of my jacket, penetrating the webbing across brace, the webbing cross brace of my equipment and grazing my right shoulder a third bullet

ricocheted off the surface of the road and disintegrated the jacket finally launching in the palm of my right hand then came the anti-climax the German looked at me in amazement threw away his schmeiser and I with a shrug of the shoulders he surrendered my natural elation was short-lived behind me lay lance corporal portius shot through the heart some of the german platoon ran away across the open fields to our left and were cut down by rapid fire brengun by sergeant kingston section which now wind the railway track to the left of the road the remainder of the enemy came towards us over the level crossing with their hands raised we took 57 prisoners now they're moving along and they are clearing some cottages and they get to this one cottage filled with

rough wooden bunks it had obviously served as an air raid shelter the house having been found clear of enemy jack lee was off his guard as he descended the steps suddenly from under a pile of blankets left the fanatical german paratrooper the only fanatical german paratrooper we encountered the entire battle a large man he seized jack around the throat in an attempt to strangle him private fluid rose to the challenge in a bound he was down the steps and with a mighty lunge transfixed the German on his bayonet a brave lad he undoubtedly saved Lance Corporal Lee's life just eight days before losing his own the German was indeed unlucky as it was the only occasion throughout the campaign on which 18

platoons bayonets were bloodied we usually used them to open food cans having checked the platoon positions and arcs of fire for the brend's exhaustion hit me i fell into a deep sleep during the evening a senior officer i understand it was either the brigade or divisional commander came up to my company position when he asked to speak to me sergeant kingston refused to have me wakened i'm sure that jim was the most diplomatic about it but it says much for our visitors humanity that he let it go by another attack a and c companies were unlawful unleashed and passing B company secured their objectives against some opposition It was now our turn D company advanced across the flat open fields down the left-hand side of the main road into

Zan 10 it's the name of the city Village casualties from the preceding companies in the opposition lay all around about 300 yards short of the town were extremely accurately engaged by a battery of 105s some of their shells exploded on the hard surface of the road with ear splitting detonations and frightening fragmentation pieces of shell casing hummed and wind around us one twirling piece embedded itself with a thud into the trunk of a tree a few inches from my right ear was the only time in the whole campaign when I regretted throwing away my steel helmet I think it was the accuracy and the intense noise of the shelling that caused it one of 18 platoons

Lance corporals a big man who had served honorably since market garden went to pieces It was a pathetic site and to everyone's credit he was quietly removed from the battle He had passed his limit and nothing more can be said So you don't know these guys are brave at one moment and then a week a month two months four months They can't do it anymore they get across the Rhine now they're fully in Germany there's a little bit of a lull in the fighting back to the book early one morning while we were waiting for our supporting armor to arrive our Padre John Williams drove over to see us after wandering around the platoon for a chat he suggested

he suggested that we should go for a short stroll I had now been commanding 18 platoon for over eight months and I suspect that our adjutant Tim Watson a kindly soul had asked him to find out what shape I was in we had not gone far into the next field when he came across some grisly remnants one of our artillery shells must have exploded right at the feet of a German soldier who had been digging a slit trench his splintered and twisted spade lay beside laid by the side of that half dug trench beside which was a smaller shell hole he had been disintegrated into small pieces of flesh and bone

which lay scattered all over the field had I been on my own I would no doubt have shuddered and quickly departed from this horror draped over a wire fence nearby lay a parachute which our extraordinarily brave Padres spread out as a shroud on the cold and damp grass then stooping he walked around the field a lonely figure reverently picking up every piece of that poor soldier to my shame I stood in watched him I lacked the courage to help somewhere beneath those flat damp fields just north of the Rhine that poetic pathetic bundle must still lie now they're an attack again but it seems like things are going their way and we're going he's he's kind of giving a brief to his to his runner when all of a sudden he hears yelling back to the book sir they're charging us sure not from about 150 yards ahead a well-spread out line of about 20 Germans were putting in a bayonet charge brave lads they didn't stand a chance I gave no orders except cease fire not one got within 75 yards of us a few minutes later a possession of Germans with stretchers and a huge red flag emerged from the village behind when they were close to their casualties they hesitated So I stood up and waved them on.

All were unarmed stretcher-bearers, and they moved across our front, collecting their dead and wounded. When they had finished their task of mercy, one of them, I think he must have been a German medical officer, turned and saluted in our direction. I returned the salute, and with that gesture, the tiny battle of cindarin ended. In Bremen, little over a month later, one of our stretcher-bearers, Lance Corporal J. Stevens, was killed by a German grenade as he went to tend a wounded German soldier. 18 platoon, remembering cinderin, were justifiably outraged by such unsoldierly behavior. There is a mathematical formula. Aggression increases the further one goes behind the lines.

Opposing infantry, with few exceptions. like the SS are joined by a natural bond of mutual compassion which few but the aristocracy of the battlefield can understand the public influenced no doubt by writers with literal no experience of battle have strange and sometimes silly ideas about what makes a good soldier ill-informed television programs have added to this misunderstanding few professions can be have been so misleadingly caricatured I had I been asked at the time because before August 1944 to list the personal characteristics which go to make a good infantry soldier my reply would indeed have been wide of the mark wide of the mark like most I no doubt would have suggested only masculine ones like aggression physical stamina a hunting instinct instinct and competitive nature how wrong I would have been I would now suggest the following firstly sufferance without which

One could not survive. So he's listing what he thinks the most important characteristics for an infantry soldier are. And the first one is sufferance, the ability to suffer. Secondly, a quiet mind, which enables a soldier to live in harmony with his fellows through all sorts of difficulties and sometimes under dreadful conditions. As in a closed monastic existence, there is simply no room for the assertive or acrimonious. thirdly below no less important a sense of the ridiculous which helps the soldiers surmount the unacceptable add to these a reasonable standard of physical fitness and a dedicated professional

competence and you have a soldier for all seasons none of the soldiers or NCOs who made a team platoon what it was resembled the characters portrayed in most books and films about war all were quiet sensible unassuming and some by any standard were heroes if i now had to select a team for a dangerous mission and my choice was restricted to stars of the sports field or poets i would unhesitatingly recruit from the latter very interesting and you know obviously you have to put in the context of of his time but there's no doubt that I mean you get a sports star especially these days those guys that are getting paid 20 30 40 million dollars a year to play a game they're probably not going to be the best at suffering in a trench interesting and I

think the key point of that is what he's going back to what he talks about about earlier is someone that can someone that can think someone that is not trapped in in thinking the same thoughts as everyone else which certainly an artist or a poet has to be outside the box of normal thought otherwise they become that they don't become that right in this situation his platoon is kind of pinned down And there's an air raid shelter which has someone in it is firing these things called a Panzer Faust which is like a it's kind of like a bazooko or like an RPG looking thing and He sees where it's coming from and he sees that it's this shelter But he doesn't know who's in the shelter here we go back to the who who else was in the shelter

Women and children sheltering more enemy soldiers with more Panzer Faust and Spandos We were in a vulnerable situation and it was no good pushing forward and ignoring the menace lurking inside that shelter I could have sent two or three men to clear it however experience had taught me that when clearing sellers that the first man sent in is invariably killed instead concentrated fire was poured into the entrance included a peat bomb around us the battle still raged and no opportunity arose for me to insubes for me to

the consequences of an awful decision nevertheless my duty was to win battles and not to gamble with the lives of my soldiers by fussing over too sensitive a conscience so there you go there's dichotomy for you at the one hand he's looking at this shelter thinking there might be women and kids in there but at this moment in time he doesn't have time to find out and doesn't have time to take the most cautious route so they hammer it with machine gun fire and some some anti-tank rounds he never even goes to look but he knows that he can't his duty is to win battles and he can't ditty dally because he has a sensitive conscience doesn't work back to

the book Bremmerhaven was our final objective it was 5th of May 1945 19 days before my 21st birthday think about what you were doing you were 20th I am that's why it's so interesting ready to break out We were concentrated at Wilstet about 20 miles north of Bremen when the end came and by the end I mean the end of the war a hundred and twenty nine Brigade's order was stand down and splice the main brace Which is a military it's actually a navy term Splice the main brace means like drinking light is lit you can drink the war's over I had just given orders for our small part in the brigades move for

forward against 15 Panzer Division, one of the famous Africa Corps formations. In 1983, Jim Kingston gave me his copy of those orders which he had kept all those years. Reaction to the end of the war, like aggression, increased further behind the lines one went. The natural aristocracy of the battlefield, the infantry, having fired a photojoil of very lights curled up and slept We had learned too much to indulge in shallow demonstrations So everyone's all fireworks and getting crazy these guys are like cool I'm going to sleep Since July we'd come a long way from the Normandy beachhead

The battalion had lost 47 officers and 1,266 NCOs and private soldiers killed or wounded After July 31st 1944 no member of 18 platoon was put on a charge no one went absent or deserted Of the original 36 NCOs and soldiers who had landed in Normandy Only corporal cheeseman remained one man Many came after them and lasted a few days weeks or months Few I was able to thank adequately I doubt if any of them realized how much I personally owed 18 platoon.

When I joined them on 31st to July, I was naive and gouch. Due to a narrow upbringing, except for a passionate love of music, my intellect and emotions were unstimulated. My achievement at school had been abysmal. My mind was undisciplined and confidence in myself, nil. This was rapidly swept away, probably within three weeks. certainly before we crossed the Sien on the 28th of August discovering an ability to command a group of men some frightened and bewildered produced a newfound confidence particularly since I seem to be able to achieve it quietly and without acrimony or fuss having to improvise tactics to overcome the shortcomings of battle school training also helped it proved to me that in some circumstances older and more experienced than I others older and more experienced than I could be wrong I suspect that as an only child I had been brought up in too much of my elders a new world had opened before me forethought and planning were demanded imagination and instinct too was that apparently quiet Normandy lane lethal the intense spandau fire and mortaring along a dyke was it a prelude to an enemy his withdrawal did the orchard in front of the village hide 88s my judgment in

these things had proved equal to better than most of than the most and it was the making of me it also brought a few problems I'm now only able to plan and run things in my way as a result I'm probably unemployable however I would never wish to change places with the shy hesitant boy whom circumstances put in command of 18 platoon age 20 I was far too young and inexperienced to appreciate that an infantry platoon was the finest command in the army and that's the success or failure of a battle so often lay solely in the hands of a young officer after careful reflection I doubt that at any time since the war have I carried the

burden of responsibility that I bore as a subaltern in battle when an army Corps division or brigade was committed to battle it was the battalion company and platoon commanders who took over the mantle of responsibility from the generals from the generals and brigadiers in close country forests and street fighting the platoon commander became the linchpin only the company and platoon commanders particularly the latter were able to have close relationship with their soldiers which is a prerequisite for having above average success failure by one infantry company could wreck a divisional battle plan.

Conversely, gallant success, like B company at Zantan, underwrote the battalion's victory. Again, I would emphasize the analog with the bond of professional respect between a great conductor and the members of a symphony orchestra, without which a truly great performance is not possible. Outstanding performances cannot be arranged in a concert promoter's office. They are created by some magic by the conductor and players in rehearsal and performance Similarly, while senior commanders appreciated the strengths and weaknesses of their battalions and brigades They could not extract a great performance from the riflemen upon whom victory depended Only the company of platoon commanders supported by their NCOs could ensure that

42 years on I get considerable satisfaction from 18 platoon successes more so than I got at the time so those are his thoughts and he's the war is now over and a few days after the war ended look after cholera inoculations we were conducted into the world of Frankenstein nothing had prepared us for what we now experienced not Hill 112 not Mount Pinchon else or Hoven could compete with this horror Before the incredulous eyes of 18 platoon spread over acres of delightfully wooded countryside was a factory of death emaciated bodies resembling wax effigies of an alien race from a strange and distant planet filled many pits The stench of death and the sight of such highly industrialized human degradation left my soldiers speechless

Private Macy D Company's Jeep driver aptly summed it up. There is now no doubt that we have fought a just war. That's after they saw the concentration camps, obviously. Back to the book. Within a month of the war ending, 21st Army Group was required to supply junior officers for the 14th Army in Burma. Lippie, the commanding officer, decided that I should be one of them, and by then being intent on a military, career I was not inclined to argue I would gain useful experience of jungle warfare of which I knew nothing about so they're getting orders still a war going on in the Pacific oh you wrapped up pushing from Normandy through Germany through their surrender guess what we need we need people to go to fight in Asia we need people in Burma I was totally unprepared for the platoons for the emotions for the emotions that were unleashed immediately after I was deprived of 18 platoon.

As a Jeep took me away from the battalion, a ghastly desolation engulfed me. I felt like a small boy on his way to a grim and unknown boarding school. The pleasures of commanding 18 platoon in peacetime were being denied me. And it's interesting. So he gets pulled away from his platoon. And he goes in to talk about what happened to the guys that survived that he knew. And I found this part to be fascinating in the how these people went back to normal life. Back to the book, Jim Kingston was demobilized in January, 1946.

And two months later, he returned to a civilian post with the Bristol Corporation Electricity Department. retired in 1975 never married Doug Proctor returned home to his wife and baby son in Nottingham in March of 1946 found the transition from army to civilian life painless returning to his accounting post in the coal industry Owen Cheeseman during the first few days of his demobilization his wife died miserable and forlorn he returned to his old job in Covent Garden and a few years later he met and married Bella who in his own words was a comfort and inspiration to him Charles Raven joined the London Transport as a bus conductor later transferring to the clerical staff and rose by hard work and

study to be a garage inspector Joe Thomas and George Harris went into the building trade industry and Bridgewater. Surprisingly, just incredibly normal paths after this incredibly not normal life. And what happened to Sydney Jerry? So here's what happened to Sydney, Jerry. Back to the book, arriving in England on 9th July, 1945, I reported to the holding battalion of the Hampshire Regiment at Westgate-on-Sea and was immediately sent on 28 days leave after night out in London with three friends also Burma bound I telephone my parents and found them away

Trapping them to Bogner Regis I caught a train from Waterloo and went to see them Staying at the same hotel as my parents were Flight Lieutenant Jack Weatherly's widow Peggy and their three-year-old daughter Anne We're staying at the same hotel as his parents and At once, a bond of deep understanding and affection developed between us. In August, an atom bomb was dropped, and so, at a stroke, my visit to Burma was rendered pointless. So, too, in my heart, was a military career. I soldiered on in Libya and Palestine with the first battalion of my own regiment for two more interesting years,

and finally was demobilized in May of 1947. Within a week of leaving the Army, I attended a job interview. The managing director, who saw me, a pale and thin-lipped man, was a business acquaintance of a relative. He eyed me coldly. Slowly and precisely from his desk,

he lifted a ruler, which he rudely pointed at my face. I understand that you made a slight name for yourself in the war. Be that as it may, people like you, Jerry, should remember that, while you have been gallivanting around the world, most of my staff had remained loyalty to the company. If you can give me one valid reason why I should even consider you for any position, I should be interested to hear it. I nearly hit him. Now I wish that I had, quickly grabbing my hat and umbrella, I rose and told him that if he was the last, last man in the world I would rather starve than work for him with that I left my heart pounding and a foul taste in my mouth I walked aimlessly through miles of streets wishing that I was back on some battlefield with real men soldiers like 18 platoon

Armistice Day brings its problems Pegg and I would like to go to church we used to but found almost without exception a lack of perception and sensitivity amongst the clergy We suffered one armistice day sermon devoted to The curates theory that war being a crime against humanity All chivalry must therefore be hypocritical I wondered whether the German stretcher-bearers and they're wounded at Sinderen would have agreed I took offense. Peg and I have a lot to mourn.

She, Jack Weatherly, and I, 18 platoons, dead. Perhaps it is expecting too much of anyone to understand intense grief, particularly that of a now aging platoon commander who had to lead some of his men to their deaths. We now spend armisticeousy day quietly at home with our ghosts. memories abound during the night I made a habit of wandering around

the platoon position so that each of my soldiers could talk to me I learned a lot they talked about their families and their future hopes I hardly had to contribute to those whispered conversations that some times took place

in the dead of night or in the cold gray light just before dawn I think it may have helped my soldiers to have a confidant invaluable experience of human nature I now treasure the memory weapons also left memories the monotonous repetitive bursts of the Bren the hysterical shriek of the MG 42s for furious rate of fire and the lethal chatter of the stands and schmeisers all contributed to the cacophony of battle tracer bullets seared themselves into memory

fired from a distance the parabola approached almost lazily until suddenly like a storm of fiery demons they accelerated directly past one's head with ear spruiting cracks I shall never forget the brain splitting shock wave as mortar bombs detonated nor the rending of the atmosphere when a stick of nebler warfare bombs straddled one slit trench My memory is stocked with smells. The metallic stench of dead cattle in Normandy, the pungent odor of German prisoners, and the vile penetrating chemical smell from a newly plowed shell crater. Strange fleeting memories too. Why, in circumstance of great danger, did the palms of my hands moisten, making it difficult to grip the butt of my pistol? Why on pitch black nights, full of menace, was it possible to discern enemy movement by fixing my straining eyes slightly to its side? It sounds foolish, but I swear that it works.

After 40 years, I am sure I could still prime a 36 grenade in total darkness or load the magazines of a cult automatic pistol. I remember are dead. Their souls departing, they lay awkwardly like bundles of discarded clothing. At Bedburg, Lance Corporal Porteus lay by the railway crossing. In an instant he had gone, leaving his body, clothing, and equipment. Empty. At Halvin Boom, Private Jones died with a tiny cry, lost in the chill winter air as the bullet took him from us.

Memories are not all sad. since as my adrenaline flowed as an advance to combat. With all the senses alert, one lived for a few hours, sometimes for day, at a concert pitch. Like a drug, it captivated me. I wanted more. Totally absorbed, one pressed on until objectives had been seized. Then I flopped as I had never done since. I remember the mood of pulsating expectancy during the last few hours before battle. Old trusted friends like Dennis Clark and Bramley Hancock would arrive to tie up their artillery support.

Others, troop commanders from the Sherwood Rangers, would appear almost in party mood to marry up with us. The very air was vibrant with excitement and good fellowship, no acrimony, simply an exercise and willing cooperation to help us, the infantry, overcome the day's grim task. But my most treasured memory is the simple and sincere. affection which existed between us all based on mutual trust it was the cornerstone of the platoon success and it survives unchanged to this day this is tinged with regret because Jim Kingston Owen Cheesman and particularly Doug Proctor did not receive any recognition they so richly deserved Jim and Owen were mentioned in dispatches but Doug was left unrewarded over the years this

omission has troubled me particularly because I had not been so had I not been so young and inexperienced more notice might have been taken of my representations I have no doubt that they all earned a military medal on more than one occasion and I their platoon commander failed them in this respect I miss my soldiers the warmth of their presence comforted me and their humor restored my spirits in the brutal world of infantry warfare, although few of them realized it, and certainly none would admit it. Their behavior was noble. Their absence left a void which, but for an exceptionally happy marriage, would have certainly drawn me back into the army for the comfort that only a soldier can

understand. Strangely, I have never since considered myself anything but wraps up. Sure, if I have much because Sidney Jerry seems to capture it and so much of what he talks about explains so much not only about about being a soldier but also about what it's like when a soldier is no longer a soldier to miss the adrenaline miss that singular focus to miss seeing men at their noblest miss the men themselves your comrades your friends your brothers to miss what he calls so perfectly that simple and sincere affection that exists in a platoon affection that I'm not sure exists anywhere else And you hear me talk about when I start talking about a seal platoon about how that's the best thing in the world and Sydney Jerry captures it better than me you miss the mission and you miss the men you miss the glorious day wonder

what would have become of them you wonder why why was it them look about the gift that they gave us that the fallen have given us this gift of freedom and this gift of life but there's there's more the rest of us passes us by that simple and sincere affection that Sydney Jerry describes changes as we change as we age time has no effect on them they remain they remain young and bold and brave and unconquerable remember them as they were and as they will always be and yet walk everywhere with us who smile no more and yet they never stop smiling heroes who live no more yet never stop living who shine and yet never stop shining gift that they give us let go maybe if uh talk about something

else for a little while yeah I would appreciate it sure you know a part that kind of stood out and we talked about this before where there was that part where you know the Germans the bayonets they were attacking 150 yards away and they just get mowed down they just get killed and then the red flag comes up stretchers come out everyone sees fire it's kind of like you know they're following these specific rules. Yeah. And then so they, they collect the bodies and they salute.

Kind of like, okay, we're good. And then he salutes back. Okay, solid. Now, game on. Essentially game on now. But this is like a war, though. You know, it's different. I mean, you kind of get that same feeling

way on a lower level, obviously. But like you ever watch like a UFC fight? And then the round ends. And then the guys kind of like bump gloves kind of like good round, you know? For sure. Well, two seconds ago, you guys were trying to knock the guy out, you know, just like in this situation. Two seconds ago, these guys were coming to kill you and you killed them, killed them.

Yeah. Boom, it happened round over. You know, let's essentially continue following the rules. And it's weird because it's less about the rules and more about like the respect, you know? It is. And on top of that, you can pile on the fact that when they were in a hundred, you know, Coven Woods, the Germans had booby-trapped the British body, so they were just laying there. They didn't get the same respect back.

But I think that's one thing that Sidney Jerry is very intent on throughout the book, is that regardless of how depraved the enemy acts, they are going to take the high road. Yeah, and you know, I think that's why this book is this book, they give this book to everyone at, at Sanhurst, which is the British Military Academy. They give us everyone. And that's a great reason why, because he sets a standard with his troops and they hold that standard through, regardless of the way the enemy behaves. They don't lower themselves to that behavior. You know, the worst atrocity that gets committed by his soldiers is when they spank a waft an asses. guy on the ass yeah you know that's that's why this book is so powerful and and you know there's a lot of the book is very it's very you know there's there's stuff in there that you you just aren't ready for right um even when he was talking about the the traits that someone should have and you you know when you start thinking about it he's right yeah he's right And if you had the choice between getting some meathead that was going to go do your bidding, even though he might look like a big beast and he's going to.

But then if you think about how's that guy going to act when things get tough or when things become ethically challenging. Yeah. How's that person going to act? So these are. And I love the fact also that, man, he's killing people. He's lead, you know, it's easy to get caught up in the fact that he's wearing corduroy. pants and he's got this there's a part there's another part I didn't didn't go over in the podcast but there's there's a group of of German there's like German some kind of

artillery piece and an artillery team and they're getting the the Brits are getting their guns dialed in to the team and they're gonna start killing them and they make a run for it and they have horses and there's like six guys and some horses towing this this artillery piece away and Sydney Jerry feels happy he's happy that the he's especially happy the horses like you know he doesn't like seeing the the the the animals get killed yeah and so he's actually happy that these guys escape and then he just says you know well that's wrong because these guys can come back and kill my soldiers so he does a he you can see how hard it is for someone to be in these situations

where you have the good conscience, which wants to do the right thing, and at the same time, you've got to kill people. Yeah. And that's what makes combat so hard. Yeah. And even kind of gets you thinking about it.

Remember the Christmas, the Christmas truth, yeah. Where the Germans, the Germans kind of, in that situation, they initiated that, right? They were like, calm.

It was like a mutual initiation. But yeah, yeah, yeah, if you remember that particular story, But I think overall it was almost like a mutual initiation But yes, in that particular story, there was sort of a voice that says, hey, it's okay I won't shoot you or whatever and Yeah, man, it's just crazy how that can kind of emerge from these situations where Guys are just straight up getting blown to pieces on purpose by the way not you know not like some tragic accident like this is that's the intent

That's the intention and then they want to just stop and sing together play soccer and then the next day by the way they're Going back to killing each other on mass. Yeah. Dang. Yeah, that's the thing about, you know, you know, this, a book like this is so revealing of human nature because business people have to do the same thing. Yeah.

You know, if you're a business person and your business is losing money, well, guess what you might have to do? Cut staff. You know, if you got to, and you, you know, let's say we're working with a small business. Or you've got a small business. You got 20 people you know all those 20 people. It's not like a nameless person that you're firing right when you let go four or five people Because you need to save money next quarter or you're gonna lose your building yeah guess what

You're gonna know those people yeah and so it's the same Dicotomy where this boss who wants to take care of his people just like Sydney Jerry wants to take care of his men And all of a sudden the only way to do your mission is you got to kill you got to you got to get some of these people killed Are you gonna fire some of these people? Otherwise our plant shuts down. Otherwise we can't go forward. Yeah. And everyone dies. No one has a job now. So the similarities

Again, that's why it's that's why these Things about war reveal so much about human nature, which is really what this podcast is about it's about human nature And the better you understand human nature. There's two things that can happen number one the better you can lead other people But equally as important if not more important is if you understand human nature you You can understand yourself. Yeah. You can understand the decisions that you're making. You can understand why something's bothering you.

You can understand what you need to conclude so that you can move forward in the best possible way. And if you don't understand human nature, you're, you're, I mean, that's understanding yourself. Yeah. And these books allow you to gather and garner so much of that. Yeah. Yeah. Especially all the similarities. So many.

All the time. I remember in not junior high. Yeah, I was junior high. Maybe early high school. So when I used to play Pop Warner football, where my best friend played for a different team. But we're all, you know, it's in Pop Warner, it's different. It's not by school.

It's by like region, you know? Like, we're not region, I guess, town. I'm in Kuwait. There's no regions. I don't think. Anyway, so the, you know, my best friend at the time, His name was Byron. He, who became a pilot, by the way.

In the military? Yeah, Army or Marines, I forget. Anyway, he played for a different team, but we were best friends. So it was kind of that thing, you know, where you're friends with the guys, but then, you know, you go on the battlefield and you guys are battling and you're back to friends. It's just weird. Yeah. You're not killing him, though. No, way different.

Yeah. I understand. Did you ever see that in Iraq, like any of that, like, I don't know, compassion? Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Even with the enemy types? Not so much with the enemy types. That's what I mean.

But with the civilian types for sure. I mean, obviously. And you'd see guys would go completely out of their way to try and protect a civilian. The enemy over there is a lot. It's different. Yeah. There's a, there's, you know, here you have a uniformed soldier. Yeah.

You know, there you don't have a uniform soldier. You got somebody that's trying to sneak around and bully you up with an IED. and yeah you don't see that same level of now I mean once you get a guy captured that's it you know okay we got him capture zip them up put them in the back of the Humvee I mean that's it yeah so you definitely what what he talks about is this this mutual respect of like look we're sitting in a slit trench getting mortared and when I like when I meet you You're on the other side, but I know that you've been sitting in a slit trench getting mortared all day. Right. That's why we have mutual respect for each other. Yeah

In Iraq, it's asymmetrical warfare. So they're not suffering the same type of situation. Yeah. And they also, you know, one thing that that really throws that stuff out the window is the way that the insurgents treated the civilian populace. Yeah. You know, so we're witnessing non-judicial murders like when executions we're seeing that we're seeing civilians getting tortured we're seeing you know people being beheaded and so when you see that you're there trying to help these people and you start to think look the if you're another infantry men in an opposing army I can I can empathize with you I can understand what you're going through but if you're even if you're another army but I see you raping torturing murdering burning people alive I don't empathize with you anymore it doesn't work that way yeah so not really yeah makes sense now you would get

occasionally you'd get like you could tell that someone would be mixed up in something that they shouldn't have been mixed up in maybe a young kid yeah maybe a 17 18 year old because because some of those kids some of the insurgents were not vehemently you know pro al-Qaeda. Some of them were just, hey, look, I'm going to get paid 50 bucks to put an IED in the road. My gig, yeah. Yeah. And if you paid me 50 bucks to go and plant, you know, crop over there, I'd just as soon do that.

Yeah. Yeah, that's all there is to that in and and But it's definitely a different scenario when the when the people that you're fighting are Are the ones that are committing these kinds of atrocities because even as these guys You know they did you see how you differentiate between like the Woff and SS and like a normal infantry Yeah, he differentiates those two. Yeah, that'd be like if let's say the war in Iraq was against Let's say al Qaeda had taken over Iraq a You were fighting even the hardened al-Qaeda guys or some normal, you know, infantry men from the Iraqi army

me like yeah those guys you'd have been like hey look this dude surrendered okay yeah the the al-Qaeda guys first of all they're probably not gonna surrender yeah and if they do that's they're gonna not get the same treatment that a that a that a guy that's a victim of circumstance yeah right a lot of the germans they're victim of circumstance hey that this guy came into power i was a soldier i'm still a soldier yeah you know and man it's heavy it is But there is definitely a mutual respect that you have for For another serviceman that's you know has been through the same kind of crap that you've been through Yeah

Yeah, man makes sense So with that Speaking of heavy lifting kettlebells Anyway, I feel like we should talk about on it on it great kettlebells Again, I do feel spoiled even every time I pick them up Even though they're dope you know the art artistic ones. Mm-hmm.

Should we call them artistic? No. Because they have names, right? Primal bells. Yeah, just call them that. That's better than artistic. Legend bells. All that stuff.

You know, I feel kind of spoiled because they're kind of like the designer ones. They're designer-ish. Balanced, by the way. You know, I got into that. Here's the thing about the cat. And I said this before. Starting light with kettle bells is critical. My friend Anthony came over.

I don't know if you, you remember Anthony? No. The first day we recorded, he was at my house. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I remember. So he came over the other day, and he was like, yeah, yeah, let's lift. And, you know, last time I seen him, I wasn't so much into the kettlebells. So I was like, all right, we're doing this thing.

Be careful. And I saw him. And he had, I don't think he'd ever done him before. Did you heard him? No, but. Borderline. Well, he just, he grabbed the lightest one. And, you know, I said, start light or whatever. And you could tell his, I'm going to say this with all due respect, if you haven't done it before.

It makes sense. But, like, his form was way off. And I'm thinking, bro, you're going to get hurt right now. You know? Yeah. So I was going to go into like what crazy workout I did, but I'll save that for another time. For now. We're almost at three hours right now.

For now. I just looked at my watch, 253. That's not a good sign. So I apologize to everyone in the world for doing a three and a half hour podcast, which is going to turn into if Echo describes his last 14 workouts. Four and a half hours. In great detail. Nonetheless. Last, so will, uh, crude oil real quick.

I was talking to somebody at the muster. I think it was. I forget who it was. Nonetheless, I was talking about the benefits. Yet again, this is like a common thing. It's true. I don't exaggerate about the cruel oil. It's the kind of like, I can't go back to not taking krill oil.

No, take the krill oil. And I don't mind. Oh, actually, we were talking to Laif. Remember Leif said he ran out of cruel oil? Yeah, and he's all mad at me because he gave me some. Oh, yeah. He held you over. Yeah.

Actually technically it was Jenna Lee who brought me some I think he just gave the order Nonetheless he gave the order yeah yeah so I guess he you know had a part of it got the credit You know nonetheless I'll never go back to no krill oil so where would you get it on it Crill oil what if you wanted to save money go on it.com slash jocco there's a lot of things on there and on it is one of those good companies slash website where anything you need like anything you need supplementation with all the way to down to workouts they got it on there try your best not to get too addicted to the website because it's very vast very robust you're the only person that has that issue I don't think so I will guarantee people spend time like watching the

videos and stuff browsing the products sometimes you can get like we talked about the you know how you get on Amazon and you're like yeah I want to get that thing too you don't really need it just look super cool it's one of those websites Amazon does that yeah so be careful it But I don't think it like prompts you. It's just the list of stuff is all cool. You know, it's not just a kettlebell. It's the really cool one, you know?

So it's that situation. Anyway, on it.com slash jockel if you want the 10% off. And yeah, report back. Tell me what you think. And if you ask me about the cruel oil, I'll tell you. I'll tell you till the end of time. I will not, not take creole oil ever again. If I have anything to say about it.

Another way to support is when you pick up your copy of 18 platoon or whichever books you choose that jocco reads on this podcast on our website jockelpodcast dot com go to the book section on the top says books from episodes click through there heads up if you're looking to get 18 platoon the book you actually you can get it on amazon used yeah for like 40 bucks used copy which they'll all be gone yeah yeah by the time whoever you are listening to this you can also get it From a website RiflesDirect.com, which actually supports the Rifles Regiment in the UK. So you can get it there as well. Or you can buy the used hardcover copies from Amazon.

Yeah. Dot com after you click through. Yeah, click through there. Boom. And, you know, even if you're buying something else, hey, click through. Support the cause. Anyway, another way. subscribe to the podcast

on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, and any other podcast providing platforms also and not excluding YouTube. Yeah.

YouTube's a good one. Video version. I got YouTube Red, by the way. Okay. Wait, wait. What's the benefits again? So one of the benefits

is on YouTube, Reb, you can listen to even if you go to another app on your iPhone, it's still playing. So it's a real, it's a real cool deal. Yeah, I am and sounds real cool. I like the ads. Yeah, I know you do. They're relevant most of the time

Yeah, unless you see the same ad over and over and again. You know what though you know when they play you ever see the same? Well, you don't see ads anymore. No, but for us who may or may not enjoy ads and or still have to you're the only person that enjoys ads you got issues, dude, you know you know how so like here for example. So Ty Lopez right? Yes, I know Oh, good God. He'll have, like, an ad every single time. Yeah, I know. You know, there's this other financial company, which is a weird one, which is really, it's really poorly done nonetheless. So, Tai Lopez, here's the example. Ty Lopez, he'll be like, it'll talk about some stuff.

And then after, it's the same ad over and over. And after a while, you're like, okay, okay, skip the ad. But then it kind of sticks with you. And then you're kind of like. Yeah, that's called advertising. I know. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, but it's kind of like, I see what's going on yet I still am compelled, you know?

So it's like, it's kind of. like it's beneficial almost I'm over here not compelled so not compelled no anyway but I am compelled to subscribe to YouTube yeah yeah okay there you go so you're trying to say you're saying a lot of other stuff right now well you know I go on these tangents and it's relevant I feel like people can relate on some level sometimes maybe occasionally maybe weird people nonetheless YouTube that's a good one video version what's the what's Jocko

podcast is the channel to subscribe to. Yeah. To subscribe to. Yeah. Sure. It'd be cool if you put videos on there more often. I do. I put like two, three a week. Oh yeah, two, three a week now. Kind of. Okay, good. I'm looking forward to that new epic number. I put one on the other, what is Monday? Yeah, okay, that's one. It's

whatever it is right now. Yeah, man. Thursday. No worries. I got you. Go ahead, subscribe to that if you haven't already. And you can get the video version and Xero. which are shareable Shareable meaning they're just shorter and They're shorter So you know whoever opens it they're gonna be more of a chance they're gonna listen to it when it's two three minutes long rather than two and a half

Three and a half in this case hours Long that's just how fired from doing podcasts because they're too long Is that possible? Maybe I guess how they say anything is possible right? That's the thing What else? Jocko has a store it's called jocco store website jocco store dot com see

catchy right easy to remember if it's a store and it's jaccos it's jaco store if it's a podcast and it's jocco's jocco podcast if it's you know if it's keychains i was meeting some people jocco keychains i was meeting some people talking to some people at a group the other day who were not familiar

with me or with anything got respect And they said, oh, well, do you, you know, one of them said, oh, he's got a podcast. And then the other one said, oh, what's the name of the podcast? And I said, oh, the podcast is called Jocko podcast. And she said, this one girl said, did you pay your marketing team a lot for that name? And I said, yes, in fact, I did.

Yep, exactly right. Real original like that. Yep, so original. But, hey, man, you know, could be worse. So back to the store Jocco store that is There's some t-shirts on there If you want to represent

You know the t-shirts carry a message The message has Layers Actually I guess technically the shirts have layers Because the message is one of the layers of the shirt You know what I'm saying Anyway go on there jocco store.com If you like something get something

That's a good way to support Are there shirts coming out this week That's my question to you Yeah that's the intention Okay because I'm getting angry Yes I understand I understand. Don't make me get in your business.

Hey, normal face. Normal face. My face is way normal, but don't make me come and get in your business and do your job for you. Because if you've ever heard me talk on this podcast, I talk about when people don't do their job, that's awesome, because then I can take their job from them. Right, right. You got to step down. So just think about more of my mindset is, and you may want to step it up over on your end. Oh, dang, you're about to jump into the song.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. None of respect. I dig it, and we're going to try to get that. Yeah, let's try. for you. No, let's do. You know why you're saying this right now?

Because you can't wait for the shirt that you designed to come up. Because you want to recognize. Also, I think you might be sabotaging and sabotaging my efforts. I made the better shirt. Uh-huh. And you don't want to print it because you're self-conscious. Uh-huh.

And that's not going to stand. Well, I will give you the respect because there's, is in fact layers to this shirt as well so all right how about this more layers more layers yeah yeah you could be right I think you might have more layers than the standard I guess we'll see we're gonna find out about that one anyway jococcal star com some women stuff on there as well some patches some rash guards some cool rash guards yeah indeed some hoodies other stuff anyway go on there check it out if you want something get something good way to support also psychological warfare if you're having

trouble if you're having trouble if you're like me and sometimes used to or currently having trouble with not feeling like working out not feeling like it so you're considering skipping the workout waiting for tomorrow making your workout day into a rest day if you're having that problem this is what you do go psychological warfare search on iTunes Google by Amazon Amazon all these things anywhere where you can get MP3s you search psychological warfare Jocco Willink and it's an album with track

and these tracks will help you through anything that you're feeling that weakness like I just mentioned whether it'd be waking up early or skipping the workout or cheating on the diet and I say cheating on the diet because you made a promise to yourself you're not going to eat those donuts you made a promise and then now like all of us

eat the donuts no that's not the promise you made just think I can never eat a donut again for sure Exactly right you can't because everyone in the world will like someone will be there with a with a camera Yeah, and they'll get me Yeah yeah paparazzi candy Yeah, yeah and consider this like what if you knew 100%? No one's you know Watching or whatever and then you're eating the donut

Can you imagine the guilt you're feeling? Yeah I feel like too much guilt. Yeah, yeah you can do it you're done Donuts too much guilt No but in the event of other people not you jocco other people feeling that weakness There's a track for that remember back When iPhone kind of came out and there's that thing there's an app for that remember that you always say that oh there's an app for that There's an app for that that was like an expression. Okay look with this there's a track for that You just made that up right now anyway psychological warfare check it if you need that if you need that that spot because really that's what it is it's a spot in life

when you're trying to lift heavy things it's good to have a spot if you're lifting light stuff or not lifting at all you don't need a spot so don't even worry about that if you're not doing nothing don't even get this you don't even need it if you're not doing anything in life don't get it you know what I'm saying yeah makes sense right get it check exactly right all right all right like I said 18 platoon you can get that at rifles direct.com from the UK it supports that regiment which I'm all about also you know speaking of rash cards and stuff check out origin main dot com my boy up there Pete Roberts he's kind of a he's Kind of a psycho, actually.

Kind of a madman. He's all about manufacturing in America, which I'm all about to. And I'm going to go into this at some point, but like he wanted to make geese here and he couldn't get the fabric. So he went out and bought old abandoned looms from abandoned factories and hired like old timers that knew how to work these things and refurbish him and rebuilt them. And has made these looms, brought them back to life so that he can make geese and rash cards here in America in Maine. and like I said that's kind of crazy borderline psychopathic which I kind of like and yes that's kind of why we're kind of working on joining forces in some way yeah Pete origin warpath it's going down we're going to make something happen I'll keep everyone

informed as we finalize the plan that rash guard that you mentioned yeah and posted the video of that was a lot nicer is a lot oh yeah nicer and legit than I when you see it it underplayed it you're like yeah well you didn't know I made it I made it sound like just kind of cheesy yeah like you didn't realize it was actually savage yeah but the thing is that rash guard it's all I already sold out you know so now he's printing a bunch more but there but he's got to we he's got to weave the material yeah yeah right or he gets he gets he gets he gets It's one of his producers here in America.

We've some material. So anyways, check out that origin, main.com growing company. We're getting in league with them. Big time. Also, jocco white tea on Amazon. Here's an actual, again, this is a certified verified report. I have a cat that used to catch one or two mice per month. I forgot to pick up a tea bag after I brewed it.

And the cat ate the tea bag. Now my cat is bringing home raccoons full grown rabbits and even the neighbor's dog So be careful don't let your cat get it unless your neighbor's dogs being annoying no that's shock away tea You can have it and it's not doesn't taste the thing is doesn't taste like normal tea It tastes like victory all right way the warrior kid boom Also this is a warning about way the warrior kid when you order way the warrior kid Just go ahead and also order a pull-up bar some flashcards some healthy food and a jiu jitig because when your kid gets done reading this factually

They're gonna want to be stronger better tougher and smarter so supply them the way they need to be supplied Quit playing around get some also the discipline equals freedom field manual There's no book like this doesn't exist it is not a normal book It's kind of like the podcast this podcast is not for everyone not everyone wants to listen this podcast that's okay I'm not making a podcast for everyone we're making a podcast for people that like to get after it so this book is not for people that want to read junk sure some people don't get the podcast some people aren't gonna understand the book they're not gonna

know where it's coming from that's okay I'm not I'm not I'm not tone we're not toning down the podcast right no we're not saying oh you know what I think everyone would like it more if we did more you know interspersed some some jokes throughout it and maybe if we made it a 45 minutes and do a little fun presentation can I get some backup music just to kind of a little jangle to make people get in the spirit we're not doing that not happening yeah if you want to listen to a little jangle or a little you know metallic riff to get you in the zone on the beginning of the podcast that's cool if you want that that's awesome there's other podcasts that offer it we don't offer it here you know what you're going to

get with the book if you're looking for a you know 50 shades of gray you're not going to get that it's but that's the cool thing the cool thing is that the publisher let me do whatever I wanted to do so I did and I made you're going to feel You're gonna feel that the that the feeling of the podcast Is the same feeling that the book so cool it's Little heavy mm-hmm little dark right sparse right sure get after it that's in there anyways Discipline equals feel freedom field manual order it it's it's not printed I'll give you a living give an example it's not printed on white paper So straight up, let's just go from there. It's actually printed the background is all

images black and white images. I know that comes as a big surprise to everyone and then put over that is words so there you go little indicator as to what the field manual is like you can get that you can pre-order it now of course extreme ownership it's a little book it's about leadership actually it's about combat leadership and how you can take the combat leadership principles that we learned on the battlefield and apply them to your life you can get that book to if you want it We also have echelon front consulting Me Laif Babin J.P. Dinell Dave Burke We will come and help your team align your leadership so you can crush your enemies

You just heard Sidney Jerry saying it a leadership is the thing that makes you overcome Seemingly impossible things So if your leadership isn't squared away you're not gonna over Overcome them. So you need to get in the game. You can contact us info at echelonfront.com if you want that Also the muster we just got back from the Austin muster Outstanding outstanding it was awesome so many great people in there lessons learned knowledge spread Tim Kennedy was there Tim Kennedy showed up And it was cool and I didn't realize it until

We were at Jiu Jitsu And I think I came up to you and said this during Jiu-Jitsu. So the last night, we had Thursday, then Friday, and then Friday night we go to Jiu-Jitsu. We went to 10th Planet at Austin, Austin, 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu with my boy Curtis. Curtis. Todd White was there. And Todd White. Representing. Yeah, he's an old school.

Like, me and him are from the same era. Dang. Yeah. We're from the same era from back in the day. Only he's a better artist than me. Yep, be tough. So, but we went and, and what I realized is this, you know, like, Way the Warrior Kid, people say, oh, man, I wish I had that book when I was a kid.

Yeah. And Extreme Ownership, people say, oh, man, I wish I had that, I wish I had that book when I started out my, you know, when I got promoted five years ago. And you know what I say about Way the Warrior Kid? I wish I had it when I was a kid. You know what I say about extreme ownership? I wish I had it when I was an assistant platoon commander. I wish I had it yeah I didn't have it and what's cool about the muster is

So that feeling when you go to the muster you're giving just like we're just given this massive amount of information Pragmatic information that you can take and you can execute with Yeah, and so when we were at Jiu Jitsu I realized man we just all this and these people in this room just got all this information and it and it's so practical that you can take back to your team and then on top of all that here's a little something else jiu jitzu yeah because um well only one quarter of the people that came to jiu jitzu had ever trained jih Tijuana yeah the other what was there 50 people that had never trained before so they're getting this gift yeah the gift of jiu jitsu a little intro yeah yeah

yeah little intro and they'll I would say 50% of them we'll go back and start training yeah maybe more I wish it was a hundred percent yeah it might be it might be yeah it'd be yeah it depends what you're into you Yeah, it's hard. It was always bizarre to me that when I introduced someone to Jit-to, it wasn't a 100% conversion rate. I know. It should be a 100% conversion rate. Yeah.

100%. Oh, you just choked me and I couldn't stop you. I need to learn that 100%. Otherwise, I go through life vulnerable to being choked by anyone. I don't like that feeling. Yeah. No, I don't like that. The mustard two is sprinkled.

And I don't, and I mean, sprinkled hard, by the way, which is a very critical, compelling part, in my opinion, is the, the same. Social stuff and I don't mean social like you're just cruising and not learning. I mean the people you meet Oh yeah, well you definitely are gonna meet good people there yeah because everyone there is in the game big time and they're all looking to get better They're all invested to get better. Yeah, and and the other thing is You know, we're hanging out. Yeah, I say all the time. Yeah, yeah. No, there's me Laif Dave J. J.P. Echo we're not there's no green room. It doesn't exist We don't even take breaks just like no way you guys when when When we take a break to let the audience like go to the restroom or grab a you know a cup of coffee or

a jocco white tea we we just we just stand there like we step down off the stage and we get everyone lines up and we talk questions and you know what I was doing this time was I was like instead of answering one person's question just to that person I was saying hey everyone come here because he's asking a question everyone coming over whoever is near near but hey hey there's there's 12 people standing in line yeah and instead of answering this one question that This one guy whispering? No, everyone, come up here. Come on up.

And you can all hear this. Because who knows? Maybe some of those questions. Maybe it's something you're going to experience in the future. I don't know. But you might as well listen. And maybe you have a better solution than I have. Yeah.

So it's like a little roundtable. Yeah, brainstorm. Yeah. Yeah, it's cool. That's true. We take breaks. Everyone, there's breaks throughout the thing. No, you take breaks.

Yeah. Jocco and leave. Don't take breaks for us. Because break time is talk time. To you guys. Come up and ask a question. Yeah. Sign a book

Whatever. Yeah. No green room. No green room. So that's the muster And by the way, they've sold out all of them that we've done have been sold out now the next one that we got coming up is September 14th and 15th back the Omni hotel in downtown San Diego California Muster zero four it's gonna sell out this is a known fact so if you want to come it's September 14th and 15th that is right around the corner So if you want to come to that that come to that extreme ownership dot com is where you can register if you want to also my the way this is interesting if you train jiu jitsu or if you're interested in training jiu jitsu origin up in Maine has this immersion camp that they do I'm going echo's going with me we're going up there it is there's

two sessions that they run it's the 20th August 20 to 23rd or August 24th and the 27th those are the two different sessions or you can come for the whole week Anyways I'm gonna be there for those middle three days like Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Thursday so I'm gonna be there for the last day of the first camp and the first day of the last day of the last of the second camp and I'll be on there on the middle day We're gonna be training rolling talking hanging out eating lobster eating steaks Just generally getting after it so you know to origin main.com and If you want to come up, there's not a lot of spaces for that.

It's not, that's like, I think the most they're going to go is 200 people. So that's not a lot of spaces. So if you want to come up, register quick, and I'll see you guys up there in Maine. What I like about it is, unlike the muster, where everything is scheduled, like, we don't have a lot of break time. And even the break times are working. This thing, I mean, you can only train jiu-jitsu, what, six hours a day, maybe? Dang, bro. You know what I mean?

Two hours in the morning, two hours at lunch, two hours in the evening. Oh, yeah. So that's six hours. You know, you're going to sleep four hours. So you still got 14 hours left in the day. So what are we going to do? We're going to kick it. Yeah, we're going to cruise.

There's a lake. There's kayaks. There's a zip lines and whatever. Yeah. Or we'll just go lay in bed and try and recover from the jiu-jitsu sessions. So, yeah. A bunch of good people coming up. After that, if you want to come up and hang out.

Do it work. We'll see you up there either at the muster or we'll see you at the immersion Jiu-jitsu camp. Wait, how do you register for that one? Origin main.com and then you click on the immersion thing and you'll find it or you press Google Figure it out. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah, there's a certain element of like if you can't figure it out Don't bother. Yeah, and there's also a certain element of like, hey, register now and go to this thing. Oh, yeah, today register today. You know, they always say, today yeah yeah I know they say that today by the time this podcast comes out it won't even be today yeah it'd be like so uh all right also until we're at one of those events if you want to roll with us

virtually we are on the interwebs the twitter the instagram the facebook echo is at echo charles and i am at jocco willink and finally thank you to everyone for listening to this podcast and for supporting this podcast which by the way is made possible by our military who protects our great nation from evil this podcast is made possible by police law enforcement firefighters EMTs first responders that keep us safe and orderly here at home and it's made possible by each and every one of you out there working in the economy making and creating and building so don't stop doing that and ever stop remembering those that went before us that still shine down on us and remember that we are not here long and time is fleeting ever fleeting so you might as well

make it a good hard until next time this is echo and jaco