Jocko Podcast - 87: How to Act as a Leader. Importance of the Warrior Culture and in Leadership. "The Clay Pigeons of St. Lo"

Episode Date: August 9, 2017

0:00:00 - Opening 0:09:22 - "The Clay Pigeons of St. Lo" by Glover Johns  2:08:50 - Take-aways and final thoughts on the book.  Warrior culture. 2:21:36 - Support, Cool Onnit, JockoStore��stuff, with Jocko White Tea and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. Origin Brand, Origin Jiu Jitsu Immersion Camp.  Origin Brand. Extreme Ownership Muster 004 in San Diego. 2:57:39 - Closing Gratitude.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 87 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. I'd been away from infantry and from the army I'd grown up in for far too long. Walking through the gates of Coleman barracks was stepping into the welcome past. The old army had not died after all. The 18th was military perfection. men stepped smartly across meticulously kept the grounds,

starched uniforms, blue infantry scarves, dazzling shined brass and boots, snappy salutes, and cheerful, good afternoon, sirs, marked my journey to the HQ where I'd sign in. The spirit of this fine unit was already infecting me. The hot, stifling, windless day, the ragweed pollen that blew in from adjacent feet,

covering the camp and immediately activating my hay fever the run-down boring camp itself none of it mattered as inwardly I was transported to an island oasis untouched by turbulent seas and it was all thanks to one man the battle group commanding officer who would forever be my model mentor and friend Colonel Glover Johns was the finest senior infantry commander I'd ever seen or ever would see again. We shared a mutual abiding respect almost from the moment we met. He was my kind of soldier and I was his He was a warrior Patton's aid before World War II then during the war he'd hit the beaches of Normandy as part of the 29th division and fought from those bloody shores all the way across Europe until vicar was achieved as a battalion commanding officer he'd headed the task force that captured the critical French town of Saint Lowe in Korea he'd served as executive officer then regimental commander in my own 40th division his reputation there was awesome one story that made its way through the division was that a wild new

XO had come into the two to fourth gotten down on his belly in the mud to check the unit's machine guns field of fire and promptly moved two-thirds of the machine gun bunkers that had sat there for two years later when he took over his commanding officer the 224th and the unit moved to a new sector he'd outposted a spur about 200 yards in front of one of his companies so the North Koreans couldn't do it first but this move was considered seizing ground and against the no-win rules of the war and soon the X-Corps commanding general flew down to John's position to discuss the matter with him after examining the situation General White told him he could keep the spur but was never to advance again even his outpost line without express permission from core his blue eyes

sparkled like those of a wise and truly tested man who long since realized that humor could be found in just about anything. He had seen his share of horror. His cheeks were rosy and the dueling scar that crossed one of them in no way detracted from his rugged yet gentle old soldier face. Maybe the scar even enhanced it. I don't know, but it sure gave him more character and provided a good yarn to boot. In any event, Colonel Glover S. Johns was a 49-year-old.

stud. Colonel Johns was a basics man and a total soldier. He taught and insisted that his company commanders teach things like terrain appreciation, the knowledge of which was a basic tool of a soldier's trade to be able to look at a piece of ground and appreciate the slightest differences in the contour, to notice how the ground unfolds and be able to think there's cover over there, cover, the one essential providing protection from direct enemy fire to recognize a streamline a gully or a treeed area as an avenue of approach through which a unit could move unseen to understand and identify the best ground from which to launch or repel an attack shoot scoot and communicate the morning battle drill began with fire and maneuver one man firing while his buddy moved

a fire team moving while its counterpart fired Colonel Johns likened it to a fighter's bobbing weaving and jabbing We kept the mythical enemy pinned down while we jabbed our way to close on his position That's cover and move by the way The colonel was right there with us to set the example And we did it until we got it right We'd end up black and blue running hitting the ground and rolling into firing position where we're with full field equipment on is not without pain but no one bitched because John's again

and again reinforced the simple equation the quicker you get to the ground and you get your weapon to position the sooner you'll be delivering effective fire on the enemy and the longer you'll stay alive still this truism was just one part of the overall strive to better your best philosophy that characterized though first the of the 18th under Colonel Johns and deputy commanding officer couch in couch's words it was our policy to encourage excellence among the soldiers particularly in bayonet training unarmed combat shooting and total physical fitness this is what really makes a soldier if he mast masters these subjects

he'll fight from my experience in Korea I could not have agreed more. So that's a little opener from a book called About Face. My favorite book, it's written by Colonel David Hackworth. And he's talking about a guy that was his commander in the early 1960s. Hackworth had gotten out of the Army and then came back in after a couple of years because he realized civilian life was not fun. And so he came back. in and he got stationed in Germany and this guy by the name of Colonel Glover S. Johns

who by the way he dedicated Hackworth dedicates he dedicates the book to infantry men and to some other soldiers that he worked with along the way but to Glover Johns he says dedicates his book to Glover Johns who showed us how to lead so Glover John's outstanding combat leader and luckily we can all learn from Glover Johns not only from what he passes through Hackworth in Hackworth's book but also from his own book Glover S. Johns wrote his own book called the Clay Pigeons of St. Low about his push from Normandy and across France that Hackworth just referenced. Now it's interesting when we go into this book the clay pigeons of st. Lo he he writes the book in the third person and he says

that it was just easier for him to write it that way so in other words he doesn't say I did this and I did that he says major Johns did this and major John said something else but what's interesting is he said that one of the reasons he was able to do one of the reasons that he did that was because the guy that was commanding in combat was a battalion commander in combat was different from his normal self right and so he had this combat Johns combat Glover Johns that was out there leading things and he had normal Johns that was the way he lived his normal life but it was easier for him to write and more natural for him to write about this major Johns guy in the third person

and he also likes it because it can gives him it gives him the ability to kind of detached from and explain what was going on so when you hear it it's all about major Johns instead of being about me and about I but it's it's him and even though it's written from the third person it is absolutely a first-person account from a battalion commander in combat close intense combat and let's pick it up going to the book the clay pigeons of st. low sharp ballistic cracks pounded his eardrum so rapidly they seemed like one impossibly prolonged rifle shot he was instantly paralyzed with overwhelming fright the radio operator Jimmy slumped forward at his feet another man stumbled past to fall

into the ditch ahead then Newcomb cleared the eight-foot hedgerow apparently with one jump but the major was too shocked to move his stomach nodded itself into a tight ball it jammed against his pounding heart while his breath stopped completely for an instant Then came in jerky gasps. The hair on his head felt as if it were rising like the hair on a cat's back. His skin prickled all over. But the most awful thing was the cold, empty feeling in his guts. The burst of German machine gun fire lasted only seconds, but it seemed like a lifetime

before he could reach up and snatch a grenade from his pistol belt. He'd never heard a bullet crack by, inches from his head. He didn't know they sounded like that He thought there was a German with a burp pistol behind the nearest tree on top of a hedgerow He grabbed the pin on the grenade But before he could throw it something made him stop and yell anybody on the other side He got a quick answer hell yes Before he could lower his arm

The blast of a rifle right in his lap made him flinch He squirmed back even closer against the hedgerow as Martin and Grimsell went into action They'd been at the front all 11 days since a continuous line had been established in Normandy. The crack of bullets was nothing new to them. Almost side by side, lying flat in the ditch, they fired methodically across him and over Jimmy's head. Mechanically, he checked the pin in the grenade, then still little dazed, hooked it back onto his belt harness. He looked at the man who had fallen in the ditch. and now was trying to weakly push himself up.

It was Lieutenant Sadler. His face already greenish-gray with shock. He had been hit five or six times in the head, chest, and both arms. Major Johns knew instinctively that Sadler was as good as dead. He called to him to lie still and take it easy, but the Charlie Company commander was already beyond hearing. Johns felt that he ought to do something constructive, something to get their minds off the tragedy that had just struck but it was without inspiration

merely numb hey you guys yelled Grimzel let's scram out of here that brought the commander out of the days he'd been in ever since the deafening burst of enemy fire perhaps two minutes before he leaned forward and shook Jimmy's shoulder come on Jim it's all over now you can get up but Jimmy didn't move Major John's shook him again. Then he saw blood oozing slowly, thickly, brightly across his own shoe. Gently, he pulled at Jimmy's far shoulder. A neat, clean little bullet hole in the boy's helmet came into view, so the major knew

that Jimmy was dead. Something impelled him to pull Jimmy over until he could look into his face. The eyes were closed, and an odd little half-smile made Jimmy look as a little. if he were asleep dreaming pleasant dreams slowly the major lowered him back to the ground and for a fleeting instant watched Jimmy's lifeblood continue to flow across his shoe so that's his really his first experience in combat and you can see obviously it's it's a of a wake-up call and the whole book the whole book is like this this it's an incredible book the the way he describes the battles and how they're laid out

and with the way he lays out his own thoughts and what's going on it's just it's it's it's an outstanding book and it's one of these books where as I had to consciously say to myself okay jaco you cannot read this whole book on the podcast we need to you know people need to read it for themselves but the book is the the description of combat like that that opening is phenomenal so let's go back to the book now where that first battles over and he's having some thoughts here we go back to the book as he walked he couldn't keep his thoughts away from the hot spot he'd been in a few minutes before and the lessons he learned so quickly but it's such a

price in little more than an hour of his first fight he lost two company commanders two radio operators and three other men besides just escaping death himself as he thought about the crack of those machine gun bullets his stomach began to squirm again until by a conscious effort he forced it to behave he couldn't understand why he hadn't been hit to Jimmy's head had been not more than two feet from his own new in the front and Sadler directly behind him had been hit. The whole burst must have missed him by scant inches, he decided,

and he very seriously thanked God for his safety. At the same time, he promised never again to risk the lives of others if he could avoid it. It was a bitter lesson repeated every time the eyes of his mind focused on Jimmy's bright blood oozing over his shoe or on Sadler's sudden death. He looked down at the shoe shuttered at the still red stain and tried to scuff it off on the grass On his way to the regimental command post the major passed a knocked-out Sherman tank What distinguished this smoking brown Hulk from others he had seen that day was the single blackened claw-like hand and forearm that was thrust out of the turret toward the sky The fingers were separate and more than half curled like the talent of a striking eagle

But this hand was not striking it seemed rather to be calling down an imprecation on the fate that had let it die There in agony so now he gets to the regimental commander well boomed the regimental commander What's going on I've just been trying to get to you John saluted it as he answered Sir, we're stuck at the second hedgerow, and I had to use my reserves to protect my flanks. It doesn't look as if we'll get to LaForge today unless we have better luck later. Have many casualties? I don't know about the companies yet because I haven't had any reports from them except the yells about their flanks and counterattacks. But Nab was wounded early.

Sadler is dead, and I've lost two operators besides three other men out of my own CP group. He was still too full of his experience not to want to tell about it The colonel listened sympathetically well he said when the major was through we've got to keep going regardless Division wants to get Laforge tonight So yeah you just had that rough day first day of combat guess what we're still going and it you know one of the things that in that opening paragraph that I pointed out was you could see his reaction When that first gunfight broke out his reaction was sort of Overwhelming overwhelmed by the whole scenario but his two guys and what happened is and you know he talks about this in the book but he had gone on to Normandy but he wasn't in charge of a battalion yet he was sort of back with the regimental command and then one of the battalion commanders was out of the fight and I forget if the battalion commander was killed or wounded but he went and took this battalion commander's job so he was wasn't on the real front lines until they were starting to push through France a little bit

then it was only a matter of days but these well I guess it was 11 days because these guys he said that these other guys had been on the front lines for 11 days so these guys it's been 11 days but guess what they're they're they're getting shot at boom they're in there they're in the mode they're returning fire and you could see they're returning fire really close so close that it scared him yeah and and that's one of the things that you know a lot of times I talk about Sim munition and training with sim munition and how awesome it is and that's totally true and I love training with sim ammunition and it really is very beneficial for your tactical skill level But you also absolutely have to do live fire and the reason you have to do live fire

I mean there's a bunch of reasons you have to do it you know you have to learn to shoot real bullets and hit real targets or with your bullets But also guns are loud and you need to condition yourself to be used to having a mark 48 machine gun four inches maybe not four inches but like 16 inches from your head and your buddy is dumping rounds down range and you have to be able to think during that and not be overwhelmed by it yeah the the simeanition this one's gonna ask like how what's the difference in loudness it's not even comparable so is it so it's not even really like a gunshot no it's not like a gunshot it's not comparable it's not the noise is not comparable the noise is is less than a cap gun

Oh okay yeah like an airsoft or something like a gun is loud and a mark 48 machine gun This is really loud and it's sending little shock waves yeah every round is like a little shock wave that you get And so that's why when that's why it is so important to train live fire and it's also important to be comfortable Not only yourself shooting in close proximity with other people but also them shooting near you because you've got to trust the guys that around you Now there's standard operating procedures that there's things that you don't do that keep it safe but it's still I mean when somebody makes a bad if somebody makes a really bad mistake they can walk into your field of fire yeah and so you have to be heads up but you still have to take shots

with people that are really close to you yeah in a firefight by the way well yeah in a firefight but if you haven't done it during training your first your first minute in a firefight is gonna be just just overwhelmed and you're not gonna be overwhelmed by enemy fire You're gonna be overwhelmed by your own guy shooting the mirror and you're gonna be hitting getting hit by brass and and Just it hurts hot brass. Yeah hot brass and the the links coming out of a mark 48 are like little weapons themselves And when they hit you yeah we had a one of our machine gunners was a A lefty and he picked up and started shooting who he he picked up a machine gun and started shooting left-handed and that dumps the brass basically right into your right by He had a bruise on his on his right arm that looked like somebody beat him with a with a baseball bat in the arm

That's what a mark 48 ejector port does to you doesn't play around So again going back to the situation he's in right now he's he's had all these casualties and they're like the major says hey Yep, regardless we got to keep going which is which is the way war actually is Yeah So that night He has a little company little huddle with the company commanders and you know just to just to kind of spell this out if you're wondering what this is all about So he's got the He's a battalion commander so and he's actually got this written out in the book but a battalion

In 1944 was about 900 guys nine hundred men 28 officers You got three companies the three companies are brought broken down into three platoons each one of those platoons has a platoon leader each one of the companies has a company commander you a captain and so that's what he's talking about so he so those are your kind of your 150 man fighting elements are these companies with three platoons in them of 50 people each about and it's weird because people always think the the military is everything's perfectly structured but actually this this changes all the time not based on but based on your mission you know sometimes you might have a platoon that needs to get plused up or a company

short of people so there's no there's no consistent just all the time number let me see what he says the actual number that they were supposed to have in a company at this time was each rifle company was made up of six officers and a hundred and eighty six men that's what they're supposed to have in them now you're gonna find out real quick that they rarely have even close to a hundred but that's what they're supposed to have so at this point he's bringing in these three company commanders to talk to them about Kind of a plan and also to get a debrief on on what happened during the day and what their plan to do ahead

Here we go back to the book He thought a moment and this is this is a one of the company commanders named Lieutenant Ryan and he's talking and he says He thought a moment and then added we might make it across the road if we pour a lot of smoke and mortars into him and then rush him But it'll take but it'll but it's getting awfully late to be beating around in this kind of country So trying to figure out how to move forward in lieutenant Ryan that was kind of Lieutenant Ryan's suggestion let's mortar him put a bunch of smoke out and then we can move but guess what it's getting late and if we're running around once it gets dark it's gonna get scary Ryan stopped and looked at Kenny it was Kenny's turn and Kenny you're gonna find out is a legit badass Sir I only had a few minutes to look things over before Weddle came along and invited me back here to see you but that orchard is a terrible place no cover anywhere

machine guns covering every inch of it we lost a lot of men in there the first time he paused but we'll do the best we can well rough or not we're going ahead the major stated flatly by the way Kenny just took over for for one of the company commanders that had been wounded or killed now they start pushing and all of a sudden they're pushing forward and again I have to skip through this book and I'm trying to highlight the leadership scenarios or the things that reveal the way human beings react in hard situations but when you read this book yourself you can really follow the tactical decision-making process and also how the battles went and what happened obviously I can't go through the whole thing

right now but at this point they had started pressing and all of a sudden he sees guys are running away running so you know as the company commander and he talks about this where he positions himself and obviously he doesn't position himself right on the front with He's back a little bit and at this point guys start he sees guys are running back towards him at first he thinks it might be Germans No, it's Americans. It's his guys and here we go back to the book the major got to his feet he started a crouching run to the left He had nearly reached the end of the field when four or five men yelling don't shoot don't shoot Piled over the hedgerow that separated Charlie and Baker companies He stopped Carbean alert as he lowered his gun wondering what this was all about a figure stepped out from the hedgerow and voiced the

same question what's going on here anyway just what's this all about it was lieutenant Iperian arms spread wide to catch the running men carbine slung over his shoulder the picture of calm he caught the leading man by his jacket which piled the others up in a tight little knot the man panted crouts paratroopers they're right behind us run Iperian glanced over the man's shoulder unmoved well now I don't see any crowds just look the men looked back all they could see were several Charlie company men standing quietly rifles ready the leader of the runaways relaxed then shuddered violently Iperian went on I don't think there's any crowds chasing you at all

let's just go see about this the man tried to pull away from him but there were he cried there were I tell you they came right over the hedgerow and shot down right down the whole squad they got the sergeant and all the rest we're the only ones left they nearly got me look he poked a finger through a hole in his jacket but Iperian unimpressed moved in the direction of Baker company even as the man protested dragging him along while the others followed meekly well Iperian went on let's just go see what Captain Wettle has to say about the all this he called softly to the men guarding the company

flank see anything no sir the answer came back quickly and calmly the mortar observer and his little group of panic-stricken men disappeared over the hedgerow the major knew he had just seen a wonderful example of leadership at its very finest Iperian quickly calmly and efficiently had stopped what could have been a route so one leader steps out and really what he's doing if you think about it he's detached because he wasn't in that situation where Some Germans came over and obviously shot at him or a close range killed a couple guys You know would have would have wounded this soldier who got shot through his jacket But he just gets he kind of gets the guy to detach hey look there There's no one there calm down. Let's go have a look. Let's take a step back And that kind of calmness

Prevented everyone because because what can go in the other direction? Right? Well can go the other direction? You see people running? That's what happens you see people running you start running and you know that that was very interesting in the in the in the I don't know if you remember some of those police shootings where I remember there's one in New York City where something like 57 rounds were fired at somebody that was unarmed and everyone's going why why was everyone shooting and I'll tell you what happens is you know for some reason they think if you think somebody's has a weapon or a suspect or is going to do something bad and now you got five or six people that are holding a gun on them well When one person starts shooting when people are not detached and when people are caught up in the moment

Everyone starts pulling the trigger and it's it's it can be really devastating can be really devastating Yeah so but when people are used to that kind of stress and they're calm and they're detached one person takes a shot You you you actually you actually assess and say okay. What is he shooting at? I need to get cover So there's that's why you're you're detached you you're you actually you actually assess and say okay. What is he shooting at? I need to get cover. So there's that's why you That training is so important to get people at a high stress level and still think through things and still be detached The stress is going to be there put it in a box Monitor it don't get in it Yeah, because you're gonna make bad decisions you might not make any decision you might just go off your reactions

Which are I'm sitting here with a gun people are shooting I'm gonna shoot too Yeah, that's not I mean it's like I you say when you're not trained you don't have experience in those types of situations like you're the shooting example yeah it's it's it's it's a It's one of those things where you see it in Jiu-Jitsu when you start, it's exact, literally the exact same thing where, so in a shooting situation, one guy shoots, you hear the gunfire. Basically, your brain just says, okay, it's on. Yeah, it's on, 100% let's go. A full speed, 100%, it's on. You can't, like, shots are being fired. It's not not on.

You got to go 100%. So in Jiu-Jitsu when you first start, you know how the guy's just going full speed the whole time. Yeah. You're in a spot where it's like, you can't move here. You can't, you're completely trapped right here. That's a mission necessarily, but you're trapped. And like it's going crazy, you know. Just because you don't know.

It's on. It's either it's on or it's not on. Yeah. So when you're trained, you just know. The difference is, though, what you're talking about is an individual, individual moment. What I'm talking about is group, it's a group think scenario. Yeah. Where, you know, just like it happens when there's a gunshot and everyone starts running, people to put the people in the back of the crowd don't even know what they're running.

Gotcha. They just see people running. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's true. Well, you imagine how amper. You are you think there's a bad guy in a dark alley and you're you're there with four your police partners or your or your your military partners. You're looking down now. You think there's an insurgent there and all of a sudden around cracks off. You're lucky and there's a there's a situation that happened where there was an Iraqi soldier that had an accidental discharge. You know what that is like we like it was layf's platoon and Laif's Laif's platoon was taken down a building and I was actually outside the building you know because we were taking down multiple the buildings but they

were in one building and all of a sudden crack a couple rounds get shot off and you know what it was actually I'm pretty sure that it was I'm pretty sure Andrew Paul this is a whole cast of characters I'm pretty sure Andrew Paul is that like the head of the train or close to the front of the train in inside that they were inside this building rounds get fired and Andrew Paul's thinking okay I think I think I remember Andrew Paul tell me this Andrew Paul's like okay well we're gonna grenade these we're gonna throw frag grenades into this next room because people are shooting at us and it was a guy another heads up guy a couple feet back That knew where the gunfire came from and where it came from was an Iraqi soldier friendly Iraqi soldier had cracked off rounds and Accidentally accidentally and you know luckily that that guy was a great guy if really heads up guy grabbed him almost killed almost

Choked the shit out of him right there But can you imagine you're clearing a house where there's suspected insurgents and all of a sudden rounds are fired? Yeah. Well, now you're, but this is the discipline. Yeah. And the guys knew, okay, the guys didn't all just freak out and started shooting. Right. The guys were, you know, somebody said, hey, somebody grabbed the person that shot.

Hey, that was an AD. Okay. Wrap it back down, wind it down. Everyone calm. You know what I mean? So there's the difference between guys that have been trained really well and when you haven't been through that kind of training. And also, luckily, that was, that didn't happen. on the the second night of deployment we were you know further into the

appointment where guys had been through it's just like we just talked about guys had guys had been through plenty of firefights at this point so they weren't freaked out that there was gunshots they were like okay wait a second where is these gunshots coming from but that could have gone really really nasty so train train realistically all right at this point and and also just like some of the other books we've read about World War II where we've got you know it's basically a movement it's basically continually moving trying to take down targets trying to move forward trying to get through France

trying to get to Berlin that's that's the situation and it's the same thing here these guys this these battalions and this regiment and they basically the whole task force is trying to move from from city to city or town to town through France and that's what's going on here so it's it's a continual series of attack dig in attack dig in attack dig in attack dig in and you know you can tell from the title of the book what they're going for is this this final you know some city of st. low and France so at this point there's an attack that they were getting ready to go on and he's trying to figure out why it got

canceled and he's talking to the commander and he says I think I think you got farther from where you started than anyone else so he's telling he's telling major John's your battalion went further than anyone else back to the book In fact, I believe that's why division canceled your attack. If you'd made LaForge, you would have been way out on a limb and stood a chance of being cut off. Major Johns, elated at their comparative success, was thankful that he had not renewed the attack and perhaps made another 500 or 1,000 yards. They would have been out front like clay pigeons for anyone to knock down.

It was the first time he had seen a practical application of what was popularly known as the big picture supposedly concocted for edification of high brass and war correspondence yet sufficiently vague to cover a certain amount of error on the ground so the reason I wanted to call that out is he's admitting that from his perspective like why are you stopping my attack and at this point they had they'd gotten bogged down then they were ready to go again then they got back down and now they were ready to go and they get told stop And so his first reaction is kind of what do you wait? Why are we stopping?

We've actually got some momentum right now. And then he finds out that from the big picture, the reason you're not attacking is because you're too far out ahead of everyone. If you get go any further, you might get surrounded and cut off. Now, this is a situation where understanding why, why is so helpful. And especially if you push that all the way down to the frontline troops and to the frontline leadership, that's out there thinking, Hey, we finally made some offensive progress and we can move and we can really take it to the enemy and now you're telling us to stop. What is going on? The headquarters is stupid. They don't get it. They don't understand. Actually, they do understand. But they need to do a better job of explaining why so that the people know.

And moving on to this next section. Here, he's checking out kind of his line now that they're now that they're dug in a little bit. He'd gone to regiment. And, you know, it's really easy to forget that these guys, and I talk about this a bit, but the best type of communications that they have is when they actually run wires between different, between regiment, between battalions, between the companies, they try and run wires because the radios are fairly temperamental on whether they work or not. So they use radio as a backup, but the primary communication is running a wire. And he had just gone back to regiment to meet face to face, because meeting face to face. is very important and you know he just comes back up and he asks one of the company command actually I think it was his his ops officer newcomb he says hey any news and newcomb his ops officer says nope everything's quiet as a church the S3 looked at the battalion commander in the starlight and grinned as he went on now major you don't have to concern yourself

with everything up here you just leave the details to us we're used to looking after them So a little bit of decentralized command. Don't worry about it, boss. We got this. We're going to be all right. Now next day rolls around, and here we go. Back to the book, around 100, the Germans shelled the battalion heavily, but they didn't follow up. Follow this up with an attack.

By 1,100, the wounded had all been evacuated, and the wire lines had been relayed to the regiment. The major instructed Grimzel to collect all five company commanders and meet him as soon as possible at the crossroads of the edge of the woods from which they had, first attacked it was only a little way from the regimental command post to the edge of the woods He got there well before the others when they came up a few minutes later he know he missed Newcomb before he caught the meaning of their odd manner Grimsell's set face should have given him a hint as the S2 stepped forward saluted very stiffly and said with visible effort to keep his emotions under control sir I must report that captain Newcomb is dead the others look silently at the ground and tears begin to stream down the gentle

grim cells face the news struck the major with the force of a physical blow of all the fine men he had met since taking command of the battalion Newcomb had been one of the very best he was quick willing and intelligent wise far beyond his 24 25 years he also stared at the ground for a moment and then asked quietly how did it happen Ryan spoke up same sniper same place as the dock so a dock had been killed earlier by a sniper one of my men warned nuke to stay out of that gap in the hedgerow but he took the steel part of his helmet off and sat down on it right square in the gap itself the sergeant who thought the captain must have gone nuts all of a sudden was coming after him to drag him away but too late

The sniper got him right in the temple. Johns felt numb inside. But to dwell on his sorrow wouldn't help. Notting solemnly, he leveled his finger at Captain Weddle. You are now a lagoon red three, but you will retain command of your company until we complete the move into these woods. Weddle, equally grave, replied,

Yes, sir. I have a little news, too. Lieutenant Chadwick got half his helmet knocked off by a burp gun during all that shooting a while ago. He caught either a part of his helmet or some of the slugs in his arm. He's out, but he isn't hurt badly. He'll be back.

Major Johns, who had never met Chadwick, merely nodded again. It didn't hurt so much when you didn't know the man. Furthermore, a wound, regardless of its severity, lacked the awful finality of death. Chadwick's temporary loss

meant one less officer, whereas Newcomb's death left a hole in his heart Although he knew Weddle would probably be a good S3, too Newcomb in the four short days he had known him Had become a friend Grimso had moved a little away from the others He was leaning against a tree his head down in the curve of his arms

Sobs shaking his body He and Newcomb had become close friends for years And had worked together daily The Major spoke to Captain Menzer the headquarters company commander See the lieutenant Grimzel is pulled off somewhere Where it's quiet and given a chance to lie down and get some rest If he objects tell him it's an order

I don't want to see him around anymore today Men sir small and dapper saluted sharply Yes sir I'll look after George all right These guys are taking casualties at just an Incredible amount and you know you see a couple things in here that we've heard before you know you see the major realizing that that grimsel he's done he needs a break and you know he says get him off the line get him somewhere you can take a break and you also see these

guys filling billets and just getting promoted you know battlefield promoted the guy was one of the company commanders Weddle he becomes the he becomes the operations officer boom on the spot it's it's really you can see why this book was one of Hackworth's favorite books so now they're they're hold up for a while and here we go back to the book 10 days dragged by while the battalion sat in boy de brettel if the days were sometimes dull they were rarely

uneventful men were wounded or killed nearly every day by artillery mortars or the fire from self-propelled 88s that could move unseen into positions from which they could fire into the tops of trees of the bois and then pull back before the artillery men could bring fire on them those casualties were bad enough but they were to be expected there was one incident that the battalion commander thought they could have got along very nicely without regiment had directed that the battalions erect barbed wire along their whole front which they did cheerfully but when a truckload of anti-personnel mines came down the major looked at them with misgivings those things were as dangerous to

the people who laid them as those as they were to the enemy he thought so he supervised the mine laying carefully meticulously noting the location of each mine on a large scale sketch of the area being mined the day after all the mines were laid he heard the flat muffle muffled roar of a landmine at once he ran toward the sound he got there with the aid men to watch with sorrow and anger while they evacuated three men from the middle of their own minefield one of them was dead the last litter carried Iperian who badly hit in the legs with several fragments did not know how severely he was hurt the other wounded men unconscious was being placed on the medical jeep when still another litter came around the corner of the little farmhouse that stood on the edge of the woods the man on this litter had his eyes closed his face twisting horribly he jerked over he jerked all over bringing his legs up so hard the aid men had to hold him down on the litter the major looking at the man in wonder asked what's the matter with him the aid men were contemptuous ah said one this guy never got hit by nothing he was in a hole 50 yards from where it happened but he

started screaming and yelling and carrying on something awful we thought he was hit but he ain't got a hole in him he was like this when we got to him Johns realized he had just seen his first case of neuropsychosis commonly called combat exhaustion or C.E it wasn't the only one he was to see so you got friends I guess that's is that friendly fire? Is that friendly fire when you hit one of your own landmines? Nightmare. Now, and also, you start seeing some psychological damage to guys on the front line.

And, you know, that guy's not going to be any good. He can't fight. He's literally screaming and jerking around. They have to hold him down. All right. Now the battalion is going to move and take over a whole. area from the third armored division and it's in moving into this area it's got 300 replacements coming in so so think about that battalion supposed to be 900

people and they're getting 300 replacements so that tells you and again I am breezing I'm skipping I'm not even breezing I'm not not breezing through I'm skipping so much of the fighting and combat in this book but it's just going on continuously and at this point they're going in they have They already have 300 replacements. So they've had 300 people, you know, taken out or either wounded or killed. So at this point, Lieutenant Ryan's company is on a patrol and they're going to go set up an outpost into some pretty rough area. And as the patrol is out there, here we go.

Then came the first shots from the patrol They were going in well and it looked for a few seconds as if Ryan was going to get to his outpost But a flare of three red star clusters floated up from the German lines and all hell broke loose again Every kraut gun that had been used to help stop the third armored plus probably a few that had come in late Opened up on about 150 yards of eight of the able company front It was concentrated thunderous murder such as no one in the battalion had ever seen before Ryan's line was a mass of seething leaping flame that looked as if it were fed from below rather than from an inconceivable

torrent of shells that came on and on and on the barrage switched suddenly from the company to the battalion command post area itself the battalion commander and his staff hearing the first wind of the shells Dived for the new command post hole Where they huddled while the walls shuttered and dirt rained down from the roof Concussion blew out the candles but nobody was hurt The German gunners switched to sea company for a few rounds Then right went right back to their prime target able company

While they were pounding Kenny's company a single short call came in over the 300 which is their radio Abel 6 is clipped. That meant Ryan had been hit, but there were no details. 20 minutes after that pretty red star cluster went up, all was quiet again, except for some moans and cries for medics that floated back from Abel Company. But at least no German infantry had come in under fire. In that 20 minutes, the company lost 54 men plus its company commander. Almost every man in the patrol had been caught above ground and was killed or wounded while most of the other casualties came from tree and hedgerow bursts that sent fragments down into the holes.

The men of the command post group gathered around the hole silently watched the parade of walking wounded that filed slowly by on their way to the aid station. Occasionally a man would stumble or waver whereupon a messenger or wireman would jump to help him. Every aide man and litter in the battalion was already up at the able line and the first litters were not far behind the walking wounded Some of the victims moaned and a few cried out a little now and then But most were very quiet. Johns was glad he could not see their faces in the dark The last litter went by with no word from Ryan Johns was beginning to hope he hadn't been hurt badly when four men loomed out of the darkness each carrying a corner of a blanket

Ryan was half sitting half lying in the makeshift litter gritting his teeth at the pain of the wounds in an arm and a leg they laid the blanket down gently in front of the major who stripped off his coat and laid it over the company commander Ryan managed to work up a feeble grin

it didn't work too good did it boss when you're the company when you're the battalion commander and you come up on the plan with the company commander and you think you've got everything right and you lose 54 guys in a company in 20 minutes and your company commander comes back and says it didn't go too good, did it boss? It's a heavy weight.

Now, they do end up pushing forward. They get some ground and he's out checking and you're going to find this out and he talks about it but he goes forward to find out what's going on and make sure the guys see him. And at one point he's going to, checking an outpost a little outpost where they're guarding this certain area and all the guys in the group are focused on a tank an old burned out tank that's out there in front of them and

He comes up to them and here we go back to the book John's pointed to the corner Does it take all three you to watch that tank while the whole German army could crawl up to within 10 feet of view without knowing it? The sergeant's mouth dropped open God major. I never even thought about it after they shot at us from the tank last time well you better damn straight start thinking about your flanks if you want it if you want to end up being able to think at all I wouldn't give a damn if they knocked all three you stupid bastards out but if they got you they'd have a good chance of getting into the middle of your company and I wouldn't like that now damn you start thinking again you know what he's detached

Those guys just got shot at from that tank. They're not worried about their flank. They're worried about that tank. Another sniper being in there. Another machine gunner sneaking up into it. So he's detached. He rolls up and sees, hey, I see that you're focused on the tank, but you've got to keep thinking. Going back to the book, orders came down during the night directing Lagoon Red.

Major John's first battalion of the 115th Infantry Regiment would relieve Lemon Red by midnight of the following day. Lemon was codenamed for the 116th whose red first battalion was holding the line to the left of where Lagoon Red had hopped off nearly three weeks before So they're going up to relieve and and hold the line they're going up to to do to take positions and hold them Meeting the commander of this of this group they're taking the place of back the book the big commander to introducing himself shook hands all around then he took a deep breath and started in on a careful detailed briefing fellows he said this is a hot spot I know you've all been in hot lots of them before but please take my word for it this one is really hot he paused and looked at the officers as if to make sure they were going to take his word for it then he went on we've got Nazi paratroopers on the other side of the hedgerows

they're the best that Hitler has and they know it they don't give us much rest we don't give them any we have casualties every day so please do your best not to cause any more than we have to take anyway my boys have been here for two weeks now and they're getting right touchy so if any of you get snapped that don't take don't pay attention to it just go on and they'll get over it so this guy's guys are pretty burnout at this point and they do this they do this turnover and he goes out and again the turnover happens there's more combat there's more casualties and then he's going out but they had things settled down and he's going out to check the line and here we go back to the book as usual major johns asked a number of men how they

were getting along he got one answer that surprised him a sergeant said well sir everything's okay it's a tough spot but i figure we're as good as any other outfit to hold it down and somebody's got to do it but i sure wish the major would get around and see us more Does the men a world of good to see you down here in the lines? The major who had thought he was getting around about as often as any battalion commander should was seriously concerned because this sergeant didn't seem to think so Instead of being annoyed He was pleased that the man had the uncommon guts to say what he thought whether or not he was right So there you go battalion commander

Instead of getting all mad that this sergeant says something he's actually thankful He answered okay Sarge you'll see me around a lot more in the future the sergeant saluted sharply Whereupon stone this is a new company commander stone and the major went on stone trying to stammer out an apology for the brash sergeant Johns cut him off but not before Stone had volunteered the statement that he himself thought the major got around more than any other battalion commander he'd ever seen The fact that Stone had not seen many battalion commanders did not escape Johns who smiled to himself as the company commander lapsed into an embanked silence on the way back to battalion he reviewed his own approach to the problem of

leadership he knew that he must prove himself especially his courage to every man in the outfit if he expected to get the maximum from them he felt that he had done so fairly effectively as far as C company was concerned because he stayed with them that night for the counter attack that had threatened their left flank also his personal intelligence service told him that a company had approved the little battle he and Grimsel and Martin had had with the machine gun that had killed Jimmy and Sadler so he's got his own you like notice that his personal intelligence service that means he's got I've talked about this before where you got your own guys

that are telling you what's going on so his own little guys had told them that a company they respected him they knew he was gonna get after it back to the book but it was apparent that this going to be a company by company proposition Baker company didn't seem to be impressed he'd have to do something about that now this is just another thing about leadership there he's on a field phone and again I talked about how they put these wires in and he's on a field phone and he gets done making something happen on the field phone and puts down the phone on the table the phone rang before anyone could say

anything John's picked it up barking red six that's his call sign the operator's voice came through clearly are you finished yes I am he slammed it back on the table weddell shook his head you forgot to ring off major sergeant Wilson gives the operator's hell if they don't make sure the lines are clear sergeant Wilson was the acting communications officer the original man had been killed and Wilson was doing a fine job he'd been in for a commission for quite a while Johns picked up the phone and twisted the crank on the leather case the operator answered instantly yes sir what's your name operator private

Henderson sir the voice was a little uncertain okay private Henderson you keep doing your job the way you're supposed to don't mind me if I snap at you once in a while I'm sorry he finished he started to lay the phone down smiled picked it up and added finished so again you can see he's a guy that doesn't get all crazy when when you know when people come to him and say hey you're supposed to sign off the line I got to keep these lines open you're not signing off line are you done you see ego maniac leaders do that get crazy on stupid stuff they're not following their own rules now talking about this network talking about these communications here we go back to look this this network of communications

enabled three men to keep accurate minute by minute track of all that was going over on the entire front covered by nearly 600 men from this one spot they could direct the lives of all those men actors in the most thrilling and awful drama of all time so the way that they're doing this and I should have explained this earlier is you have the the battalion commander and he has a small staff of people that stay with him most of the time his operations officer his communications officer his intelligence officer and what they do is when they get to certain positions they find a command post a CP and when they're in the field what they do is they dig a big giant foxhole and

they make it as good as they can that they put logs over the top of it they put dirt on top of that or sandbags or something so they're pretty they're trying to get pretty secure in there from overhead artillery attacks and then they run wires out to set up communications with all these all the company commanders who have their own little command posts and obviously this thing isn't permanent because it has to be mobile because tomorrow night the next night we might move another thousand yards or 500 yards and then that that that foxhole that we'd dug isn't doing us any good anymore but from this little command post that they set up they're they're running this whole show now he talks about his decision-making here back to the book if he made a wrong decision he could cause men to lose lose their lives needlessly or if he was clever or lucky he might by moving a single squad or platoon or calling for fire support defeat the enemy and gain

additional glory for the unit all without moving from his communications when in a defensive position such a is this then he's talking here about like some of that drama that happens back to the book a single rifle shot could mean the death of a company commander or it could mean nothing a mortar round might wipe out an outpost and lay a company open to a surprise attack or it might only kick up a little dust and scar a few trees a volley of artillery fire could come through the roof over their heads or it could burst harmlessly in the the fields outside a burst of fire from the orchard could mean another pig because they

had killed some pigs that they thought were enemy or a full-scale German attack each sound built up a certain amount of suspense to greater or lesser degree the ring of the phone itself built the tension higher and higher until the first words that came in would perhaps screw it even tighter or dispel it entirely so That's the life that they're living and just high pressure all the time. But you hear a massive explosion and this is the same thing. I think Leif was talking about on the podcast. You know, you'd hear an explosion.

You've no idea what it is. You don't know if it's friendly. You don't know if it's a tank round being fired. You don't know if it's an IED going off. You don't know if it's a mortar round impacting. You can't, maybe these guys got to a point where they could tell the difference. But I'll tell you what, you get into urban combat and the sound is refracting off all the buildings. It's hard to tell where it came from and it's definitely hard to tell what it is and by the way

The artillery rounds that hit are what is being used as IEDs So you don't know what it is. Yeah, it's really hard to tell but it was weird too and in in in Ramadi There was constant gunfire like you when you were outside you just hear It was always out there you know even if it was even if it was on the other side of the I mean you you can maybe not the other side of city but if it was in downtown Ramadi and we were back at our base you know we'd go up on the rooftop of my building and sit there and you could just tracers all night you know the Marines down in the government center were getting attacked for the 14th night in a row you

know the outposts the army soldiers or Camp Kregor was getting mortared I mean it was just constantly happening so what was it were you if it's closer that's when it's the concern or I guess it's just context in general right no just yeah this the overall context with for us for me it was like okay you know we just you just knew that there was constant fighting yeah constant was going on yeah and yeah I mean obviously if it was closer than the the louder it is and the closer it is the more of a concern it becomes certainly yeah he talks about again this is a subject we hear about all the time the German mortars and

gunners must have registered to because they had the exact range of every foot of Hedro held by the battalion on the 10th of July they covered almost every foot of the hedgerow That sort of gunnery was rough on the men They never knew in the first round would fall, but once it had splattered with its flat crash They all knew that six or maybe a dozen more were coming each one a little further up or down the hedgerow When you heard that first one you pulled the bottom of your fox hole right up to your belly and prayed When you heard the second one you knew whether or not they were coming your way If they were coming towards you it got right rough each round was a little closer and they were so damn deliberate about it that the waiting was worth worse than the crash of the shell itself

You lay there and counted the seconds between the shells until you knew that the next one was yours The 20 seconds or so was the longest one in the world because you never knew it you were safe until the shell hit it could hit anywhere outside your hole even a matter of inches and you were okay if it hit in the hole with you you'd never know it of course actually only a few shells ever made direct hits on foxholes but some did and nearly every man had seen a foxhole that had been hit there was always the little tail fin section left on the surface and after the litter bearers had come and gone there was only a pool of dark muck to show that somebody had been in the hole It happened twice that day

So this one you can I don't know if you quite followed what's happening these guys are in a hedgerow So they're in a linear position, right and the way you work mortars is you make small adjustments on them And and the way that you fire at targets when you don't know what the Differo Distances you put the first one's gonna be long and then you you adjust a lot shorter So then you come back and it's called bracketing so you you know you might come back five clicks And then that was now you're now you hit in front of the target now you go back now you go forward again four clicks it hits a little behind the target now you come back three two one and then boom you hit your target So on the mortar thing There's like the actual tool that kind of well there's the yeah you're adjusting the elevation

Yeah, yeah so it's like there's like a little guy up and down a little dial it's going up and down to to fire at what angle you want to fire yeah yeah so what you do is when you shoot a mortar you you the first one you go long the second one you estimate short and then you basically can split the difference between those two you're gonna be pretty close and like you work with a a legit mortar team yeah and the third round is gonna be pretty damn spot on yeah but what he's saying here is the Germans they already knew the exact settings for where to put

Oh yeah Like oh we see movement at this part of the hedgerald They don't need to take they just go to their pre-designated settings Yes They can put a round right on that So they kind of figured it out beforehand They figured out beforehand they know the exact because what you what you have to you know the distance Yeah

You know the distance at the mortar shoots at a certain elevation But what they don't know is if you're trying to shoot at something that you don't know exactly where it is Well then you have to estimate the distance which is a little bit challenging to do Now a good sniper or a good mortar men are going to be pretty close You know snipers know that Hey, this thing they get it down to really you know how many meters it is and same thing with a good mortar man But even that you know when you're talking about a far distance of 800,000 meters you might be off by 50 meters and that's that you know Being off by 50 meters with a mortar is a big distance not gonna kill the target that you're trying to hit

But with these Germans at this point they already have everything measured and dialed They have a range card is what we call it a range card means like I know exactly I'm when you set up in a position you get out your range finder and you find out what the range finder and you find out what the range and distance of everything that you're looking at so you know exactly how far as you can dial in your scope boom oh I see somebody over at that corner that building that's 832 meters boom crack remember that game battleship remember that I do remember that day the old school yeah it's like you can't see it but you yeah and you're kind of a little bit it is you're basically your first round's gonna be a little bit if you hit something then you got to you're like a just yeah so what the Germans like I said the Germans had these things pre-registered and then what they would do is they would just drop they would just hit the whole hedgerow they go right down the line and these guys knew that once the first round goes it's either going to be moving away from me on the head row or toward me oh yeah yeah and so can you imagine the the damn pressure when you're sitting there that first round goes and now the next round where's it going to be further away from me meaning the Germans are going to are dialing away from me right or are they dialing towards

me and then how many rounds are they going to go because if they do enough rounds you're you're gonna be all right yeah that's battleship you're not there the game that's exactly what that and what's interesting is those like he said is that if the if the mortar hits outside of your foxhole by an inch you're probably going to be okay because the mortar blast goes up and out when it hits the ground if it hits in your foxhole you're dead and so there's this this kind of randomness that you're dealing with going back to the book a little after this after 1700 general gearhart came striding through the trees behind the company post hole he came on serious business that of giving orders for an attack if he carried them by

himself they were important gentlemen he said with the edge to his voice that was impressive the division attacks tomorrow at zero 600 all along the line this is the drive for st. low there were few details the battalion would attack as the general had said at zero six hundred the first battalion would advance in a Southwesternly direction with the village of Belle Fontaine as its initial objective That was about all there was to it except for the usual information concerning artillery support Supplies location of regimental command post and that sort of thing so pretty Pretty broad orders like hey this is what we're gonna do we're gonna attack tomorrow zero

six hundred the mission is to get st. Low back to the book by the time. By the time order got down to the platoon leaders and their part their part was pretty simple all they in turn had to say was all right gang let's take the next hedgerow when the company commanders had gone the staff discussed the plan of attack the question bothering John's most of all was where to put the advanced command post group he wanted to hold casualties to the barest minimum yet he wanted to be as far forward as possible so he's talking about where should he actually position himself and his small team of battalion staff where should they position himself it's funny too

because when we talk about battalion staffing you talk about I don't know a battalion staff can be pretty big when you're in a big battalion but this is not a big group this small group especially because they've taken so many casualties back to the book there were a number of good reasons for this in the first place keeping the command group close to the companies made a lot of difference in communications particularly in this close wooded country a Clump of heavy trees or a high hedgerow could spell the margin between having contact and not having it That was a supreme importance

Second if you had and this is why I was talking about keeping a plan simple Because when you start getting split up from people and you can't maintain communications with them The difference between not having communication and having communications is Is night and day. It's disaster and success. It's victory and defeat back to the book Second, if he had to move a bog, if he had to move to a bog down company or to any trouble spot, he wanted to have the shortest possible distance to go. So he wants to be close enough to have good communications.

He also wants to be close enough that if something's going wrong, he can get there and make things happen. Third, the group couldn't afford to stay far behind in any event because they fully expected the German paratroopers to close in around them as soon as they started to advance. If the command post group were too far from the rifle companies, it would have a good chance of getting cut off and destroyed or captured then there was always the consideration that the men like to know that the old man was not far behind and to see him once in a while when the stuff was flying around so these are things he's considering they're getting ready you know it's now getting closer to the attack back to the book the staff was uneasy they didn't want to turn in they couldn't say why there had been other nights like this they all sense that everyone shared

their own nameless fears now they start their movement suddenly a terrific firing broke out every German cannon mortar rifle and machine gun that had fired around that day cut loose simultaneously the sound of mortars coughing on the German side blended with the scream of incoming shells Grimsel and Hoffman slid down the steps of the hole before the first round is hit the phone rang Major Johns grabbed it red six Charlie Sixer were catching hell down here with mortars and artillery. I think there's enemy infantry coming in under the fire. So the idea is cover and move.

You do this as an infantry platoon or company or battalion. You put suppressive fire. So you start launching mortars at your enemy. And then while they're all taking cover, you advance. And so that's what he's talking about. He says, I think there's enemy infantry coming in under the fire. fire stone broke in the operator having wisely sensed a crisis and cut him into the circuit so the other company commander now tunes in same here major only i know there's infantry coming in

they're already in the road with us so there's about to get some his voice and manner were normally extremely quiet and easy going now his tone was strident with urgency had it been anyone but julian stowen the major might have thought it showed near panic Okayed to both of you he answered as calmly as he could stuff's coming in here to Fight him and keep me informed Major Johns doesn't get excited about stuff Very often he says oh you're getting attacked cool fight him keep me informed. Yeah, that that's that's how you eat Yeah now at some point all the wires that I talked about that were so important for communication

The crowd back at the aid station they had a cat they captured a guy cried Wettle suddenly he must have been part of patrol that came through and caught all our wires Hell there haven't been enough shells to failing falling to cut them all the smart bastards They even knew when we checked radios as well so these guys Set a small group of Germans went through the lines Probably right after a radio check Cod all the wires Yeah, that's that's how you kick off a an attack right you screw up there

communications now at this point they are this is turning bad real bad and and this is again there's so much great information in here and so such good documentation of way this combat takes place but suffice it to say at this point I'm skipping forward they are getting really crushed they got mass casualties they are there when they advance So imagine this. Remember I talked about the Germans know exactly where their mortars are going to hit. Well, the Americans will storm forward and fight hard and get to another hedgerow.

When they get to this new hedgerow where the Germans were, where they just beat the Germans out of there, the Germans have that hedgerow dialed as well. So now as soon as they get positioned, they start getting immediate effective fire from mortar. So this is a total nightmare, and that's what's happening. And at this point they're completely bogged down and this might be you don't get to hear a story like this very often So the regimental executive Colonel Smith lieutenant Colonel Smith shows up so above the chain of command of the battalion is the regiment regiment and the the senior person in the regiment is the colonel the regimental commander and this is his executive the person the one down from the regimental commander is this guy lieutenant lieutenant colonel smith and he shows up and here's what he says what's the matter

Johns why aren't you getting anywhere Smith gasped and this he's gasped because he's running into this position the major pointed to the bloody trail to the dead men to the shells that were savaging the trees and finally in the direction of the nearby front from which came the plotting sound of mortar fire his eyes were their usual snap and he answered dully they're too tough Smith blinked several times he was obviously trying to think of something to say something that would inspire this listless battalion commander to new effort well he finally brought out you gotta get going right away regiment has got a move you just got to get going

John shook his head he wasn't having any not today was all he would say so We're talking mentally defeated at this point And even the regimental commander coming in or the Regimental executive commander coming in Telling him hey you got to move you just got to go which is that that That encouragement this reminds me of of In Jiu Jitsu tournaments you ever seen a coach saying like you got to get on top Yeah, you got to do something. Yeah, got to get out of there. Yeah, that doesn't help me. Yeah

So that's what he's saying hey you you just got to go I'm getting mortared my guys are getting mowed down I'm not I can't do it so back to the book then for some reason both men looked up the hedgerow toward the rear Colonel McDaniel the new division chief of staff was striding toward them oblivious of the fire just as he reached the command post a volley of four rounds screamed in the field just beyond the hedro the concussion tumbled him into the hole with the major and Smith but McDaniel did not lose his natural dignity and he was smiling as he said hello Johns Smith how we doing now we got a leader coming in that's very calm and very cool and just got blasted into their hole by the way yeah and he looks up smiles and says how we doing John's made an effort to perk up a bit but his voice lacked conviction or forces he told McDaniel all about the situation the chief of staff surveyed the scene weighing it all very carefully before he answered when he did his His tone was serious and he was not smiling. Johns, when you were on maneuvers in Louisiana or at VMI and while you were studying at Leavenworth, you saw situations where units had to be sacrificed knowingly in order to get a job done, didn't you?

The battalion commander nodded. When you saw those things, you probably never thought very much about them, just accepted them as a matter of course in war, didn't you? The major nodded again. You never stopped to think, probably, that there might come a time when you and your unit would be the one that had to be sacrificed to enable the parent unit to accomplish its mission. The Major's eyes were opening wider as he shook his head. Well, I don't know for sure, but maybe this is that time. I do know that this is the highest ground on the core front and the key to the entire defense of St. Lowe. Corps expects us to break it and we think you are the man to do the job at whatever cost

now don't let us down without another word he got to his feet and walked back the way he had come the regimental executive tagged after him Johns watched them go suddenly he remembered that the general what the general had said to him the day before I'm counting on you He turned to Weddle Who had watched this little drama With detached interest Leroy the major said as he squared his shoulders and pointed To the sinking sun

Take a damn good look at that sun old boy Because it's probably the last time any of us will ever see it Let's go John's never knew later Just what he did the rest of that afternoon And early evening He remembered moving around the command post forward again and he knew that he had needled the company commanders unmercifully

threatening them with relief of their commands begging pleading anything he could think of that would work with that individual at that moment he found that there was a comparatively weak spot in the German lines opposite Baker again he badgered Martin into persuading the artillery to give him all the fire that he could hit that spot at one time that meant a lot of guns when they all fired three rounds as fast as the gunners could load them a hundred yards of German held hedger went up in flame and smoke and dust again most of Baker company streamed across the field and into the gap blasted by the artillery that took the heart out of

the paratroopers and the paratroopers he's talking about our German paratroopers who began to fall back all along the line it was no route the Germans retired from their flanking threat Baker posed having gained a place in their main line but they fell back slowly fighting every foot of the way the tenacious paratroopers slowed the weakened battalion again but they could not stop it entirely the company commanders and the platoon leaders together with the battalion CEO had thrown off their apathy taking a second wind and were not to be denied at dark thanks to the inspired leadership that had been provided in a few short minutes by colonel McDaniel the German line was broken beyond repair

The battered American battalion had made 500 bloody yards. As dusk faded into darkness, the firing began to diminish, only to flare briefly again on the left. Then it died away into silence. Kenny called in, Kenny called in to say there had been a light counterattack on the left flank. He had easily kicked it off. The Major did not ask for permission to halt the advance. He gave orders to dig in for the night after, after he was sure the companies had close contact on their flanks.

So there you go. That's just an amazing account of not only of leadership, but of what leadership was capable of. I mean, Johns was pretty much done. He's literally saying not today. They're too tough. And the way that McDaniel convinces him And explains to him that you know those times?

Those times when you were doing exercises and they'd sacrifice a unit to that they can accomplish the mission? I'm not sure, but I think you're that unit right now. And we're counting on you to get it done. You know, that's one of those things too where that's where you're, that's where you know from a leadership perspective, you're now, you know, entering a situation where duty is going to be the most, important thing to you and you also know that the mission is the most important thing you've got you've got to put that at the top of your priorities and you know you're going to sacrifice guys and it's going to be a nightmare but the alternative the alternative is you're not going to win you're

not going to win that's the alternative is that your team is not going to be able to achieve this And, you know, at this point in the war, this war was not settled yet by any stretch. This war was not settled. And so to give up ground and start to let the Germans reorganize and let them start to gain high ground, which is what they were fighting for here. That's not just going to affect your men. It's going to affect everybody. And so I've said this on the podcast before. The definition of a team is when the members of the team think the team is much.

more important than themselves and that's what you see right here they realize John's realize realizes that look we're gonna be and the title of the book is clay pigeons you know what clay pigeon is right yes what you throw up in the air and shoot out and it's just it's a sacrificial piece of clay and that's why the name of the book is the clay pigeons of st. Lo because that's in many cases the situation that they're in so this is This is different than when Napoleon says, hey, if you get told to do something and it's not smart and you do it anyways, you're culpable. John's, he can't say, look, no, this isn't smart.

He knows it's the right thing to do. That's the big difference that I'm trying to get at here. This isn't a guy who's saying, look, hey, we're going to charge this machine gun nest and I'm going to lose half my platoon, but it's not going to make any big deal. and I'm a bad leader because I sacrifice my platoon for a meaningless machine gun nest. This is a guy that knows that this objective is important, knows that this high ground is needed, knows that the success of this, not just this mission, but the success of this whole, this whole assault on France and thereby Germany is writing on what they're doing. Now, you could break it down and say, well, you know, they could hold back and they could wait.

well what happens when you hold back and wait do the Germans have more reinforcements that they're sending their way you know what's what does that actually mean and so he is calculated in his mind you know what we need to do this for the good of everyone we need to do this one point now fast forwarding past some more of that fighting they they do a good job of kind of of they've they've knocked out some of the through through some fierce fighting They've knocked out and they've moved forward and they've hold up and now they start advancing again And here we go back to the book one one well placed stubborn hostile machine guns stop that flank attack cold So they're attacking and they get stopped by one well placed machine gun the German gunner got off got half of the small squad that tried to rush him through the smoke and the attackers had to withdraw dragging their wounded with them

Mortars and artillery left the German undamaged Rifle grenades couldn't quite hit the narrow slit through which he was firing. Two grenadiers trying to take extra careful aim had also been hit by concealed German snipers. When the major arrived, it looked as though progress had stopped. Using the battalion radio to the rear command post and the artillery phone from there, he adjusted 18 successive rounds from one gun of the 110th Field Artillery Battalion in a vain attempt to sharpshoot the machine gun out of existence but he couldn't hit it and after each round burst on or near the hedgerow the enemy would reply with a disdressive burst

There was only one answer a tank and miraculously a tank appeared So that's what I'm talking about he's he tries with there's a one machine gun that's holding up this situation he gets on the radio radio and cars artillery artillery which is similar to mortars they're they're bigger and more powerful But it's the same thing it's indirect fire you're putting rounds far up in the air and they're through a big arc that's going thousands and thousands of feet in some cases in the air and then coming basically straight down on a target and it's when I say it's hard to hit a target He's fires 18 rounds to try and hit this machine gun bunkered in machine gun can't stop it can't help it So he needs a tank and then miraculously And if you don't know anything about my Incredible affection for tanks and for tankers

Because of what they were able to Do in the Battle of Armadi to not only for themselves But to support and save my guys time and time again I'm a big fan of tanks In fact, I love tanks and tankers that's straight up That's the way it is and this is why this is why right here back to the book one steel monster lumbered up behind Johns who yelled instructions to the tank commander

The gunner watched carefully while an infantry squad leader fired a clip of tracer bullets at the slit that hid the machine gun and then swung his short barreled Little 75 into line It crashed once and almost simultaneously with the muzzle blast came the crack of white phosphorus shell as it hit the slit the smoke blossomed up from behind a hedgerow indicating a direct hit with that a single paratrooper came running toward them a few moments later everything on the front cut loose the enemy and the company charged and another hundred yards of french real estate had changed hands and then the major the major wished every machine gunner in his outfit could have seen that position as an illustration of what skill tenacity and guts could do to build and defend one machine gun position so machine gunners tanks yeah it's credible what a machine I mean you know what a machine gun is right I mean machine guns I mean a normal like a mark 48 machine gun or the old M60 Roger Hayden talk about carrying the 60 right and in our boys last deployment my last deployment to Ramadi guys are carrying

mark 48s or mark 46 is which is a smaller round of five five six round M60 that's what Rambo had right that is in fact yes yes and commando by the way Arnold's first thing okay I'll take your word John Matrix to be exact no those is he okay the M60 sure the belt fed machine gun hell yeah they're they're not that big of a weapon I mean it's big and believe me when you're carrying it 800 2,000 rounds it's big enough but if you think about a whole you know a battalion worth the guys are getting stopped by a guy in a machine gun yeah in a good position now he had snipers snipers covering him two snipers apparently were covering him but that's that's

that's that's not many people that's why when you're on the offense you need more people yeah than being in a defense position you know a defense when you're in a defense defense defense position yeah and you're allowed that you have time to set up that's why when you go back to well when you look at normandy we look at this whole if you look at world war two as a whole that both the the allies and what we did in in Normandy taking the beaches and what you did every time in a Pacific taking the beaches you're going against bunkered positions like this yeah fully and it's just incredible the tenacity that it takes

to make this happen yeah isn't that the whole in a way the whole idea between being guerrilla warfare where it's like we're just we're kind of it's we're not fighting we're not fighting and then all of a sudden we're fighting and that that is that is behind guerrilla warfare But this isn't guerrilla warfare. Even without sneaking around. Right, right. You're in a uniformed soldier, German, and you go, okay, I'm going to set up a bunkered position on this high ground where I have the enemy channelized in this area and I have good spread on them.

And the only weak spots I've got, I'm going to cover them with snipers. Three people holding up a battalion. And just think, you know, if then once you get that position, we have mortars already dialed in when you get there that. that are going to start hitting you. And then the next thing you do is you've got to move again. Well, guess what? We've got another three, four, five guys in machine gun positions, mutually supporting each other.

That's why these American allied fighting forces and the Americans here and the Americans in the Pacific going against hardened, bunkered positions is incredible. Yeah. It's incredible. Now, he's given kind of an overview of war. And here we go. thus goes battle a rush a pause some creeping a few isolated shots here and there some

artillery fire some orders some smoke more creeping another pause dead silence more firing a great concentration of fire followed by a concerted rush then the whole process starts all over again the defender this is this is good information the defender will almost always hold out some reserve even though his front line is being torn to At least he should. He may inflict all the damage on the attacker that he can while giving ground slowly. Then, when he thinks the attacker is weakening, or when the defense has reached a certain piece of ground that the defender has chosen for the purpose, he launches a counterattack with his

reserves. The attacker has used much of his strength, his men are tired, probably short of ammunition, and are almost inevitably somewhat disorganized. Then the defender throws fresh troops into a counterattack overground his men. No, unless the attackers are very strong, they must inevitably suffer. Often then they are defeated and thrown back or destroyed. So there you go. I mean, this happens in mixed martial arts.

It happens in sports. It happens on the battlefield. These guys are pushing forward on the attack and you take away, you chip away at them a little bit. You give them ground, you give them ground. And then when they get spread out, they're low on everything. ammunition boom then you hit him on a counterattack on the ground that you already know back the book such counter attack tactics have been standard almost as long as there have been organized armies The Germans employed them so regularly that they were never a surprise

But the enemy could never muster seem to muster the strength necessary to make their counterattack stick Their efforts often halted in advance as they had the night before but they rarely gained back any ground and were almost always costly to the counter attackers even the best and most proven tactics still require judgment and the force to do the job the Germans rarely had enough of either so there's a little breakdown on what's happening with the Germans first all they're not using good judgment they're just like standard operating procedure we're gonna counter attack every single time and when you counterattack you're taking losses especially if not gaining ground so their standard

operating procedure we're gonna counterattack and they're not gaining ground and so what are they doing they're losing guys And the more guys you lose the less guys you have to counter attack with the next time. Yeah. Now, they had a, they had a group here that was working in the battalion. They were called the commandos. It was just like a little elite group that they were using. They would guard the command post, but then they would also, when someone's going down,

they'd get out there and get after it, super aggressive. But they were running so low on people that they needed to put, the commandos team back out into the companies the regular companies so there had been a little commando unit a little special unit within the battalion and then he had to take those guys and put them back out with the with the regular companies now here we go back to the book in the middle of the afternoon the CEO moved up close behind a company to watch their contingent of former battalion commandos go into the line sergeant Turner who had made it who had been in charge of the platoon of the

command of platoon was with them Seeing the major, he fell behind long enough to say, Sir, we're going in there to help our buddies from old A company lick the hell out of those bastards. But when we get through this, I'd sure like to come back and get another bunch of commandos for the battalion. His cool voice ended on a rising note. All right, Sergeant, you get us into St. Low, and I'll promise you you get another platoon of your hellraiser just as soon as we can spare them from the companies. John's return to the sergeant's... John's returned the sergeant's salutes and watched the man as he ran to catch up with the others.

An hour later, a weasel, which is a small-purpose tracked vehicle, flying a red cross-flag clattered out of the woods, carrying a load of wounded on litters. The battalion commander, who was passing the spot, stopped when he saw the wounded. The little commando sergeant lay on the litter on the near side. Seeing the major, he yelled for the driver to stop. Johns went over to him and the boy both his legs wrapped in dirty bloody bandages grabbed his commander's shirt and pulled himself up on the litter He was crying openly and unashamedly as he burst out with a flood of invective They got all my boys major

We didn't get off the LD which is the line of departure I let you down major I let you down He stopped and sobbed bitterly before he could go on major Johns could feel his own throat constricting as he held the tightly gripping hands that shook him again and again as the sergeant poured out his grief and rage and disappointment we had to get that gun damn the dirty bastards god damn god damn I let him get me with a fucking machine gun and they got all my boys too god damn he sobbed uncontrollably while the weasel driver began to let his clutch take hold but

be back major sir I'll be back I'll be back sure boy and I'll have your old job for you any time you just take it easy and get those legs fixed the major was walking slowly beside the litter trying to gently disengage the grip on his shirt the sergeant let go and fell back on the litter exhausted John's looked up at the aid man who slowly shook his head the sergeant would not be back they are finally pushing into st. low and and they have to go down this or the direction of attack that they're taking is down this down this single road that heads into st. low and the Germans have it dialed they have it ranged you know with artillery ready to hit it and here we go and they have hit

it they're starting to hit it with big rounds back to the book Johns noted that the German fire was coming in slowly There couldn't have been more than two or three guns firing as they were all big ones They didn't fire rapidly that was a break, but just one of those big shells in the wrong place As the next one began to how the men began to look for deeper spots in the ditches Johns yelled keep going damn it's not here yet the men kept going forward for several more seconds running hard now the shell was nearly on the ground before the major yelled again down although the men hit the ditches John was too excited to remember he was in the

middle of the road he went down on one knee the shell burst a hundred yards ahead again nobody was hit the instant burst the major was up yelling let's go running as he yelled his men got up and ran to Hoffman and Grismell or Grimsel catching the idea moved further back down the line of men to relay commands and call signals on the shells when the next one hit all three officers did the same None of them got off the road here and there non-coms without orders began to fill in the gaps staying on the road themselves by the time the third shell hit the whole column was working as smoothly as if it had been on a parade ground drill And they were losing no time they kept going a few men were hit but not many oddly oddly enough not an officer or not

Oncom was knocked out of the middle of the road though each leader only went down on one knee One shell burst not 25 yards ahead of the major but it hit just around a small bend in the road and he was sheltered by the bank He ran forward through the smoke and dust nearly falling over a man who is rolling crazily half in and half out of the ditch Johns grabbed him by the arm to help him to his feet crying come on boy let's go The man tried to get up but stumbled awkwardly forward Only then did John's look down and see that the soldier had no feet He was trying valiantly to stand on the stumps of his two legs where his feet had been sliced cleanly off just at the ankles John's laid him back gently into the ditch and changed his tone

Maybe you better take it easy a while son you stay here until one of your buddies gets here. There'll be along in a minute The man himself was an aide man and not another was in sight, but the battalion commander had no time for one man So after a quick look to see that the stumps were not bleeding profusely he patted the man on the back saying see you later bud Then he ran to catch up to his place in the column a little further down the road after another burst he saw another man lying in the ditch not making any move to get up and go although he didn't seem to be hurt John stopped grabbed him by the arm and yelled again come on let's get going Looking blankly up at him the soldier pushed a camera forward saying plaintively I'm a cameraman This rocked the major for a moment Then he said well you can't take any pictures in that ditch get going

So again you see leadership in action You see him having to actually lead and set the example and his other the company commanders and eventually the the senior enlisted guys all follow his lead of what he's doing we got time to run we got a minute whatever whatever it is 30 seconds we're going to get up we're going to run as hard as we can when we know we're going to get hit with the shell we're going to get down and take cover pure leadership now once they get kind of into st. low there's a colonel shows up starts getting told what to do back to the book the colonel

giving orders again I want you to clear this town as quickly as you can there aren't many Germans in it but there are a few and I want it all clear your battalion is the only infantry we have with the task force as you are the ranking officer you will be in command of all the troops in town he looked closely at the major who nodded trying to contain the elation he felt knowing that he would have command on the ground of what would undoubtedly be a historical action the colonel thrust a map at him here's a large scale map of the town itself now get going major John's turn to for Wendell weddle and Grimsel his two staff officers turned company commanders both were

almost at his elbow he drew them to one side and divided the town between them so now they're kind of on the outskirts of st. Low and they're starting to clear the town and we have so the companies go out and start clearing the town and they've set up a little makeshift command post for for major Johns and and he's standing there with he's got he's got a bunch of new guys with him too He's got all these replacements because remember an hour and a half ago when I said hey these guys have already had 300 Replacements well that has kept up the whole time they're getting all these replacements so at this point This is an interesting leadership story here. He's got some new guys that show up

And There's he's standing in his new command post and these new guys he sees like a position that needs to be taken To make sure that you know, we we have some security around the command post and these new guys he sees like a position that needs to be taken to make sure that you know, you know, we we have some security around the command post and And so here we go he motioned to the PFC and three other men standing nearby. They came forward rifles ready. So these are three new guys Just replacements just showed up And again the probably the most fire they've seen was running into the town with St. Low avoiding big giant Howitz or shells that are hitting them back to the book see that alley there said John's pointing I want you to take these three men and go down to the end of it looks like about a hundred yards where you will set up an outpost

Lieutenant Lickery will come around later to see how you're doing The PFC squinted down the alley, nodded a trifle uncertainly, and started toward it. The others followed, but the major was too preoccupied to note that there had been no briefing and no assignment of positions or duties. They just trooped off down the alley together like a bunch of men going to the post exchange. Two minutes after they left, the sound of German machine gun fire came from the direction of the narrow passageway. John's turned to look.

Out of the alley pelted the four men. toward him the private first class panted sir there's a machine gun down there the battalion commander didn't know whether to be amused or angry there was no telling what the new men were apt to do if they didn't have leadership of an experienced or well-trained non-com or officer he decided to be gentle yes I heard it now tell you what to do you take these three men again assign one to take a place where he can shoot at the gun or where you think the gun is then take the other two and see if you can't come around behind it and get it for me

So they'll cover and move real simple little cover move you you get where you can shoot the gun have that guy get where you can shoot the gun and then you guys maneuver behind it Cover move beautiful the PFC took that in Knotted somewhat less uncertainly Motion to the men to follow him and started purposefully back down the alley in not more than five minutes there came in rapid succession the sound of the machine gun a few rifle shots two grenades and running feet Johns had moved across the street looking for the best place for a temporary command post he turned toward the mouth of the alley wondering what would come out this time two Germans showed first running toward him at full speed before the major could bring his submachine gun up he saw the PFC and one other man prodding the Germans from behind with bayonets they spotted him and poked the prisoner in his direction they stopped in front of him before he noticed the m g 34 the pfc was dragging behind him so they actually had the

German machine gun the man dropped the gun in front of him saying here's the gun you wanted major but this is all that's left to the crew we had to kill two of them sir major Johns gulped nodded and motioned to gay was another one of the guys to come to get the prisoners the private first class and his helpers jogged back toward their new outpost the major looked after them wondering just what sort of training or indoctrination they must have had first to run away from an enemy without trying to fight back and then to apologize for having killed to he looked down at the german that the battered german machine gun kicked it idly and reminded himself to be more careful and issuing orders to new men they were apt to take things a bit on the literal side he was

sure that the pfc had actually thought that the CEO himself had a personal desire for the machine gun they had knocked out and that he would have gone to any ends to retrieve the gun itself in order to bring it back just because the major had added that for me when he ordered them to get the gun yeah that's like a common thing to kind of add right like in you know how back when he used to work at the nightclub you'd hear that all the time like it you know especially when you're managing big crowds so you say hey can you you know can you slide over it on the side here for me and they'd always add the for me I always thought like that's kind of a strange thing to add. I mean, it's so common. So, but when you really think about it, it's like, that kind of a strange thing to add. But I think it like adds like this personal touch. You both.

A little too personal. Yeah. I'll bet. Apparently. All right. Now, he's in the command post. Weddle, who's one of the company commanders. These guys are out clearing the city.

And he hears some commotion comes back into one of the rooms. And Weddell's in there with one of the other officers. or one of the other yeah officers they're working on him back to the book Brooks sobbing was carefully cutting away the officers field jacket and shirt exposing a wide deep gas just below the shoulder John's stomach turned over quickly when he saw the wound the bone was shattered with sharp splintered ends sticking through the bloody pulpy mass of torn flesh that's this is Wettle he's talking about Wettle was damn near right they'd almost blowed his arm plum off the S3 moaned

closed his eyes as he leaned back to let Brooks do what he could with the nasty wound But he pulled himself together in a moment or two and opened his eyes to look at the CEO So here he is Wettles just in agony, but he gets a grip then he looks at the CEO Squeezes his eyes together hard than looks at the CEO and says I was just coming back to tell you He ground out between clenched teeth that we have our side of the town all clear with the men out on the edge and when the artillery caught me in the middle of the street he flinched his face twisted in pain when the aid man who had taken over from Brooks inadvertently twisted his arm as he sprinkered soulful powder into the wound then he went on Chadwick is back didn't know it until I saw him came up just came just before we pulled out out of the little road back up the hill you can put him in command he's good he was gasping at the words now major can you get me out of here I don't want to lose this arm.

Sure, boy, we'll get you out. Just try to relax now. Don't worry about it. Take it easy and we'll have you back to where they can fix it up in no time. Weddle leaned heavily on Brooks, who was still sobbing from the shock of seeing his captain so badly wounded. Weddell and Brooks had been together a long time and Major knew the sergeant would be no good around the command post for a while, so he motioned him to go along and look after the wounded S3. So again, you know, Major Johns realizes that somebody's at their capacity for handling the horrors of war and says, hey, you take this guy back to the aid station.

Now there's a German counterattack. So they're in St. Low that got things decently handled, but all of a sudden they start seeing it. And there's a guy in the field named Barnes, and he's starting to report back, hey, they're forming up a big counterattack. And also, their field phones have been, they lost wires. So they don't have good communications. They see this thing forming up. They're going to be overwhelmed. They're really under man.

St. Louis is a pretty big city. It's all kind of destroyed, but it's still too big for the amount of people that they have. And so they're really scared that there's going to be a big counterattack and the Germans are going to take the city back. So they finally get through. They don't even know who they're talking to. They're just trying to get through to somebody that can pass word to get the artillery to start dropping bombs. And Henderson is one of the guys on the radio. And he says, damn it, man, this is Lagoon Red in St. Low.

And we've needed artillery's worse than ever needed anything in all our lives, and we need it right now. All our lines are rear. All our lines to the rear are out, and our wire people spliced one and got you. Now, quit asking damn fool questions and tell me if you can shoot for us in St. Lo. So this is going back and forth. They start dropping bombs. And all of a sudden, they start adjusting the bombing closer and closer to them, to their own lines. Back to the book, Angel Fire Direction Center was questioning the,

adjustment the correction would bring the shells inside the no fire line maybe on friendly troops hell yes we got do's on the edge of town who do you think wants this stuff anyways the artillery man was frantic afraid of the safety rules the big guns would make them stop them just when they needed the most please sir he pleaded just put it out there the infantry battalion commander is standing right beside me praying for more of it the last volley was right in there but the Germans are still coming They stand the get them to drop more bombs and barns the guys out in the field calls back in again

That was marvelous do it again some more and then the guys transfer in that repeat range fire for effect give us all you have and give it quick You're breaking up the attack and you're all we have and That's enough that's that they they bomb the Jesus out of the Germans and that pretty much breaks the attack and Again, I'm summing up like seven pages of extended combat. And finally, though, the battle is for the most part over. And they've got stabilized. They kind of set some security.

And here we go. Back to the book, Major John's, his face in his hands as he sat down for the first time in hours. He couldn't help thinking of the death and agony to so many men so needlessly. it hurt damnably deep inside and then a liaison officer from regiment came in with a lieutenant colonel

his staff and all of his company commanders they were from the 134th regiment of the 35th division which was to relieve the first battalion at once Johns could hardly believe it even when he saw his replacement standing there looking fresh and confident he was beginning to think the clay pigeons

were supposed to go on forever fighting all alone except for the artillery the new battalion commander wondered about major staff major john staff so he's got a guy coming in to take over they're getting relieved and the guy says you know hey what's up where's your battalion staff back to the book john's explained and as he did he reviewed in his mind all that had happened in the short 30 days since the first attack in the boy de bretel his whole forward staff was gone Newcomb, Sadler, Carter, and McCarthy dead. Weddell and Hoffman wounded.

Grimsel out-commanding a company. Nab, Ryan, Todd, Stoan, Cordiac, Kenny, and Detman all wounded. Besides, God knew how many other officers he had never even known by name. The company commanders from four companies killed or wounded mostly in the space. of seven short action-packed days he stopped talking while he thought for a moment of all those fine people when he glanced up catching himself he thought he was looking at a ghost there stood Kenny the shadow on his face wavering as the candle flickered in the faint breeze of his entry so Kenny had been wounded and now he's back in an instant his

troubles his preoccupation with the with the relieving officers were forgotten Kenny he cried what in God's name are you doing here well major I heard you got into town all right but we're sort of short of company commanders I saw Todd Detman and Cordiac back there so I thought I'd better get on up here and see if I could do anything the docs will let you go these days if you can stand up straight for two minutes without falling down the major saw that Kenny was exhausted in spite of his cheerful attitude he found out later that he had walked alone in the dark all the way from the division clearing station several miles to the rear in order to get back to the battalion his legs and back were covered with bandages under his new shirt and pants he said well old man there isn't anything you can do right now these nice people have just come in so we're going to be out of this rat trap in a little while you just go back behind mrs. Blanchett here and lie down and get some rest you need it

Kenny did as he was told the strain had begun to bend even his indomitable will at 0 440 the major reported the regiment that the hundred and thirty-fourth infantry had taken over the wiremen took out the phone the major shook hands and said goodbye and good luck to the new arrivals then he and Kenny followed the companies down the hill just seven days ago they had numbered 800 they were now only 450 proud tired men the clay pigeons who had taken the core objective pigeons from Omaha beach to the Elbe the first battalion 115th infantry 29th division had 2,384 counties. I'm including 454 men killed in action

That's that's hard to even fathom Again think about the fact that at this time a battalion was about it's supposed to be about nine hundred men and they taken two thousand three hundred and eighty four casualties So all the replacements that came and kept getting wounded Unbelievable and What's I mean that you got to read this book and get the lessons learned in in also You get lessons learned from that book, but you can also get some of major John's lesson learned from In his book about face and what's

You want to talk about some layers some some historical layers? Check this out so in about face Hackworth talks about what happens in August 13th 1961 the communist in Berlin that started stringing barbed wire and they were now gonna build a wall between East and West Berlin and they you know Kennedy who was president wanted to do something like you can't just you know we need we need to make some kind of a statement here so he sent 1500 soldiers from the first battle group of the eighth infantry division and they were selected apparently by Kennedy by name so Kennedy said I want these guys and the

reason is because their commander was a guy named Glover S. Johns and he wanted them to go and reinforce the British French and American troops who were on the ground in Berlin and then layers Colonel Johns in his position appointed D Company in his battle group he pointed D Company to be the battle group's reaction force and who was the commander of D Company it was a young Korean War veteran who had come back into the army named the time David Hackworth and as I said hackworth points to Glover Johns as his primary source for leadership lessons learned and he

captured them coming succinctly from Glover Johns himself in about face so let's take it back to that book for a minute here from about face all too soon Colonel Johns received orders back to Berlin as chief of intelligence so now this whole thing that they'd gone through with sending this this force to reinforce the French British and in American troops on the ground in Berlin this is pretty much done All too soon Colonel Johns received orders back to Berlin as chief of intelligence Most of us had known the magic couldn't last forever But it didn't change the fact that we were incredibly sad to see him go on 15 January

1962 the battle group fell out smartly for its final review before our favorite soldier the weather was bitterly cold but no one noticed we were all too busy standing tall and greedily soaking in the colonel's farewell address Johns was a leader who taught by example so most of the points he made weren't exactly new to us but to hear it in a single speech this great man's basic philosophy of soldiering was like being led on letting in on the secret ingredients of some magical formula To wit strive to do small things well be a doer and a self-starter Aggressiveness and initiative are two most admired qualities in a leader

But you also must put your feet up and think So there's a little dichotomy he's hitting on yeah you got to be aggressive but you got to think strive for self-improvement through constant self-evaluation you got to be humble never be satisfied ask of any project how can it be done better over inspect or over-supervised allow your leaders to make mistakes in training so they can profit from the errors and not make them in combat decentralized command keep the troops informed telling them what how and why builds their confidence the harder the training the more the troops will brag boom remember that guy

that asked last podcast how do I improve the morale of a group get them get them to have pride Train hard next enthusiasm fairness and moral and physical courage four of the most important aspects of leadership enthusiasm fairness and moral and physical courage next showmanship a vital technique of leadership that's interesting and there's a bunch of in about face hackworth he specifies some of these things that he would that that Glover Johns would do showmanship wise he'd walk down the range and he was a really good shot with a rifle and apparently he would have a guy throw a quarter like a coin up in the air and he'd shoot it because he was such a good shot that and another

thing he did he's about to give a speech somewhere and And in sort of a mixed audience, but a bunch of German sort of political people, Glover Johns gets up and just gives the speech in German. All right. Next. The ability to speak and write well. Two essential tools of leadership. Next, there is a salient difference between profanity and obscenity. while a leader employs profanity tempered with discretion he never uses obscenities next have consideration for others

next yelling detracts from your dignity take your men aside and counsel them next understand and use judgment know when to stop fighting for something you believe is right discuss and argue your point of you until a decision is made and then support the decision wholeheartedly stay ahead of your boss when Johns had finished Colonel Couch gave the order to pass in review and company by company we marched by with just that little extra precision our shoes uniforms and brass earlier attended to to provide just that little extra sparkle as was the custom the company commanders peeled off after their units passed in the review stand and congregated for and final goodbye. Johns had watched the parade with tears in his eyes.

The tears remained as he stood at attention. So tears in his eyes. That is Major Glover Johns. That is the Clay Pigeons. That is the 1st Battalion 115th Infantry, 29th Division. And obviously he is an age. example of leadership and

the men of his battalion the clay pigeons they are yet another example of the indomitable warrior spirit and culture that is

the very core of this nation forget those of you out there right now defending our nation that spirit and that culture it can work hold you up having it in your brain strong in trying times but there's also a dichotomy there because not only does that warrior spirit and warrior culture hold you up you also have to hold it up have to maintain that warrior culture

in the way you think and in the way you act and if you ever start to forget how you're supposed to think and how you're supposed to act then remember colonel glover johns and the clay pigeons st. low that's all i've got for tonight echo charles yes so i guess speaking of maintaining yes maybe you could maintain support of this podcast if you

if you want if they want and for ourselves hey what is fire for effect oh yeah this is awesome so you're on radio

and you're watching you're calling artillery or you're calling a naval gun fire or you're calling air support and you're trying to get them to hit this target whatever that target might be that's trying to get him to hit a building where there's moose sure sure and they get a direct hit and now you say fire for effect yeah that means you don't need to make any more adjustments you can just start hammering that thing boom boom boom boom oh okay so when somebody does something it's on target you like

yeah fire for I got you yep oh dang okay I didn't that's what it is that's one of those ones that you know I I'd hear all you in life always say it and you know certain do we say it that much not no not that much but I that's where I would hear it here it kind of come out and you know how certain terms if you're not familiar with them you can kind of gather what it means yeah you know in the context in the words and stuff like that but that one I never could really figure out exactly what that means as opposed to you know I don't know fire at will or you know all the all these other things that you hear yeah fire for effect fire for effect Because it could, it kind of sounds like it could mean like to distract them or something, to have some effect other than hitting the target or something like that.

Yeah, apparently not. Yeah, apparently it's the opposite. And, you know, it's all good. Yeah. It's amazing to come up with these guys, man. Yeah. And, and I'm telling you, like, and I've said this before, that thread of, and I actually don't like using the word warrior culture. Yeah because because it's so overused

Yeah man It's so overused and it's it's it's it's been so Degraded yes by this horrible meaningless things that guy's a warrior You know what I mean because he you know Yeah committed a crime and actually survived his prison term Yeah that guy's real warrior no no actually you're not yeah you know different But but but there's no other word that I can put on it I

At least that I could think of right now when you talk about The American culture and it's so easy because America's a big place And America's got a lot of good things going for it and a lot like you know the culture of art of art in America's massive Yeah, the culture of music is is is unbelievably powerful here the culture of Education and academia all these things are massive in America and America and Right and and it's really easy To forget The culture this the most

In my mind the most powerful culture that we have now I could be wrong. Oh I mean, what about our Entrepreneurial spirit and culture right? That's huge here very strong Our capitalist culture. We want to make money. We want to grow. We want to do things right those are all really really powerful and I think We tend to forget we tend to forget we want to we want to say that you know the Japanese Bushido culture is this thing we should look up to guess what guess what that Bishito culture versus the US Marines you know storming beaches in heavily defended beaches and that the American warrior culture that's the that's the real deal yeah that's the real deal the Nazis oh the

Stormtroopers oh yeah those were such a warrior culture guess what compare them to these guys Yeah no not happening sorry yeah yeah these and you hear this a lot like that there was a little part in the book where the guy got his legs blown off something like that and he was like I'll be back Yeah, I'll be back he's like and it really seemed like he was he wasn't pissed about his legs He was pissed that he's out of the game for sure like I'm letting guys down I'm going you know yeah I think a lot of times and you know America is kind of one in an example where you know when all things are going real good it's easy to point out the things that are not going good you know like you're I don't know what whatever the case may be like when if everything's perfect the little

imperfections show themselves more you know like if your life is like everything's together where yeah yeah you know your job is good and your family's good or whatever but meanwhile like your I don't know your front lawn is going brown you're like my front lawn's going brown you know it's like that kind of thing um I think that's what we have in the u.s it's kind of like we things are really I think it's more just a matter of percentage I mean I think in America right now it's like a 1% of the population is actually in the military I mean all these world war two veterans there not many of them left Vietnam veterans are getting older Korean veterans are very very rare at this point so and what are our movies about you know

instead of making movies about Saint-Lo they make movies about the aliens attacking or whatever yeah you know so we just it's pretty easy to forget that the reason we're here and the reason we're not speaking German is the reason we're not speaking Japanese is because of this warrior culture here which kind of It's right up there. It's right up. You show me any warrior culture that has the same that, you know, I know there's equivalence. I know that there's other, I know there's other military units in the world and other countries that have a proud military tradition as well.

But, you know, obviously I'm biased towards mine. Yeah. But you tell me any historical unit that you say, oh, these guys were the Spartans and they were the real warriors. Right, right. You know, you haven't really spent much time with a 19-year-old Marine. Yeah, you you haven't spent much time with a with a with a soldier from an airborne division You just you just you got to meet those guys yeah I'm telling you they're the real deal Yeah, and no matter what kind of you know

Historical warrior you want to you want to throw out there I'll put my Americans Against the head-to-head it just in terms of just straight up warrior culture and spirit and I'll go I'll go toe to tell I'll go toe to toe for sure I'm not I'm not trying to say we're better Yeah But I'll go toe to toe to toe with the Spartans Yeah I'll go toe to toe with them

I'm just talking you know My warrior culture against your warrior culture And the way you lived your life You go meet some of these young soldiers And Marines out there Yeah You can come and talk me And special operations guys

You know what I mean obviously Yeah Come and get some Yeah I'm Dig it Come in firefront effect sorry bro I do it it's I just learned the word I'm trying to hit it in warrior culture doesn't get through all of America you know nonetheless we are down to

support ourselves I was gonna make some of a wisecrack about Hawaii but you know yeah you might you might get dealt with no not gonna do that because but no because massive there's a there's a great book that somebody sent me and it's about Japanese Americans that formed up you know we sent Americans sent many Japanese to internment camps in America in World War II they also took a bunch of them and turned them into a fighting unit at the 440 seconds yes and they were they might be the most highly decorated unit of their of that size yeah because but a lot of them came from why yeah yeah yeah

Huge Japanese community in Hawaii. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and speaking of Hawaiian, like, Kay Yunha, like the old school. And warrior culture. Hawaii, for sure. Yeah, so you, am I allowed to just straight up say BJ Penn right now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And my boy, Max Holloway, by the way.

By the way, current champ. Yeah. I remember Max came and trained with us. Yeah, I've told the story before, but man, what a, what a beast. Yeah. You know what? He was training hard. Yeah.

He was trained hard. He wasn't even close to the UFC yet. This was years ago. It wasn't close to the UFC yet. He had some warrior culture in him. Yeah. Get some. Super nice guy too.

When you can consider, like even let's say the Spartans and you consider all their battles and stuff, this is like hand to hand, sword to neck, battles. Just like, dang, that's that's savage. But back in those days, look at all kinds of cultures. So consider Hawaiian culture. If you look at the weapons, like you can look like in museum, just go online, whatever. Look at the weapons that they used in battle and then consider like, That's what you got to use.

It's like savage, man. It's like, so yeah, there are a lot of legitimate warrior cultures. It is different. There's no doubt. And what I'm saying, to, to encapsulate what I'm saying is, America has one. Yeah. And it's, go toe to toe with any of them. Yeah, don't slip.

I don't sleep on that. So, support. Support wise. I'm going to shift gears here. So, you know, I'm talking about kettle bells all the time. I feel like I'm talking about kettle, not just now, I feel like I talk about kettlebells a lot. It's one of those things, you know how like you go from thing to thing,

and you're like, hey, I go to one thing only. Yeah, yeah. You go from thing to thing. Well, you know, I try to acquire knowledge and what do you call, skills? Capabilities, we'll say capabilities. That's important. Participation is required. Kettlebells is kind of like a thing that I recently got into.

And I'm going to be honest with you, getting kind of good at them. Jack, bro, you know, because consider okay, here's, I'm gonna go into numbers, whatever. So my Metcon was, is, was, um, I'll do 135. Clean and jerk. Clean and press, jerk, whatever. Press is like just pressing, right? Jerk is kind of like, yeah, you jerk your whole body kind of thing. Okay, so it's clean and jerk. With 135, you know, the wheels, uh, five and then to burpees, five. walk for 30 to 35 seconds walk boom do it again so anywhere from I don't know I'd say about eight sets would be like a solid one usually why are you doing the 30 second walk by the way it's like it's like it's like it's like you're breathing that's why okay so it helps

wait why should I not do that I don't do that I'd be going 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 so you can go longer Well, I don't want to do that. Well, the contest wouldn't be to go longer. Well, whoever stops the rhythm. I'm saying that the rest is part recovery. Here's the goal that's why. Well, let me ask you this. How long does it take you, like 30 seconds to do?

Does it take 30 seconds to do the 5 and 5? Yeah, no, no, no, no, more than 30. So you do 5 clean and press. Right. Boom, 5 burpees. Yeah, it's more than 30 seconds. Maybe 45 at the most. Yeah, maybe 45, yeah.

I don't know. That's a good question. It's more than 30 though for sure. Okay, well, I guess it might be all right. So you should put that on a timer though. You should be saying like a minute 30 I'm saying like 30 to 30 for 30 for you should be like okay. I'm doing it all because you're saying it like the tabata like yeah well you should do you should do a minute 30 seconds and every no and every minute and 30 seconds you do the five and five okay so that way you get because by the by the six set you'll be like tired when you're starting it right but you don't want to rest more yeah push yourself this is kind of my thought my thought process on it. is I'm going to do a certain kind of work capacity, you know, like five reps of this and five reps of this. And then I'm going to have a kind of an active recovery period walking. Yeah. And here's the thing. And here's kind of the goal.

This is good. I actually am going back on what I said. I think this is actually not a bad idea because, but you need to put it's like when I do, sometimes I'll do stuff on the minute. Yeah. What makes me nervous about what you're saying is like, I like rest for about 30 to 35 seconds. I don't know what that means. Okay.

Because because that could be 40 seconds. Yeah, that could also be it's not you got a clock on. Yes, sir. And that's 100%. So the here's the weird thing about having a clock. Ever since I started lifting rest between sets has been a critical part of my lifting routine. It's from the beginning rest between two. Because it's just what I learned and stuff like that. So I don't think the clock and actual clock is not been a part of a workout ever. Oh, that's good. It's part of it. It's part of it. It's part of it. It's part of it. It's part of it. It's like weights. There's weights. Just like you're lifting those weights. That's what the weights are for. You're going to rest in between sets.

That's what the clock is for. You can't just go willy-nealing be like, I'll just throw on whatever weights. And that's just my philosophy. If I'm not on the clock of a one hour workout for me, it would take like two hours. Yeah. Because I'll just be thinking about something

or I'll just take more rest than I should have taken or whatever. Yeah. And consider this. If you're doing, let's say you're doing five sets of squats, five sets, I don't know, eight, we'll say. And when you're pushing. on your second set you can do more weight than or less weight than on your first set if you rest for less time you're right so if you rest for five minutes you can do way more yeah so that's putting your body through something different than if you would have just rested less so it just depends on what you're trying to put your body through what you can recover from and what kind of results one of the hardest one of the hardest workouts is and this is in this is in discipline equals freedom field manual I I used to do the 20 rep squat workout,

which is you take a weight that you can do 10 times, and you do it 20 times. Okay, okay, sorry. And it's devastatingly hard. Yeah. And I would rest for 20 minutes, and then I would do it again, and then I would rest for 20 minutes,

and then I would do it again. So 30 cents of that. Yeah. That is, that's no joke. So technically, and I believe you, I'm not saying it's easy. I'm not saying that, but that being said,

Technically that's impossible Technically yes you're right it is impossible to do something you only need ten times 20 times if you can do the way that you right Right and for 20 times that's the way you can do for 20 times straight it's not 10 so I get I get it, yeah yeah, but I'm not gonna I'm not gonna you're right But you also understand what I'm talking about I know exactly what you're talking about you're like a normal like you're not maxing out at 10 reps on it with this weight It's like this is my normal maybe if I'm gonna do a set of You would be surprised that the weight you can get like let's say you know you you pick the right weight that you can like I can do this ten times Legitimately and you're like you know what I'm gonna do it 20 times I know but it's freaking sucks I did you're right and but I think that's like a curse the knowledge kind of situation like when you say I'm gonna do a weight 20 times what I can you know let's say for lack of better turn normally do tan but it's not normal also you're like you're basically

you're resting as much as a human being can rest with a bunch of weight on their back Yeah, in between reps when you get to rep 12 you're taking like time But it's it's it's a really it's a losing proposition because while you're waiting there Resting you're actually suffering and your back start to get old Yeah yeah yeah I get it That's why overhead squats are brutal because you're not resting in an overhead squat position and it's like awkward and Yeah, that that's hard the overhead squat situation but and not to beat a dead horse here so like consider if you said hey

someone who's pretty new more or less to working out say hey get a weight you can do for 10 and do it 20 they're going to mess up in one way probably they're going to be like okay I can do this 10 times I know that and I'm going to try to do 20 they can't even get 20 because you said the weight that they could do for 10

they try for 20 they fail at 10 that's how much they can do for 10 or they'll go the other way they'll be like you'll like oh get it and they'll be like wait I got to do this 20 times yeah I can do the bar 10 times So I'll just use the bar kind of thing So you have that knowledge where you're like hey I know the weight that I can do for 10 and it'll be hard

But you know what I'm gonna get nuts and if I really push myself I can get 20 guess what I'm using that weight So you kind of have that because you've been training all the time So I get it yeah you're right And I don't think I'll ever do that even though I kind of considered it last time you mentioned it But then when I got in the workout room I was like yeah I don't know I don't think I'll ever do that maybe I will I don't know actually I'll tell you you what I will do is someone online maybe was you someone was saying a hundred burpees in

10 minutes yeah was that you saying yeah yeah and brannan just texted me yesterday yeah brandon brand yeah he said he's gonna do it i i was considering i'm gonna do it in the first time i did that hard that's so surprised that branding brandon's a good shape you ever see he posts like pictures of himself doing these crazy push-up workouts yeah i can't believe he can't do it that's why i'm so surprised this is what i does a weird he does good creative pushup drills does weird creative pushup drills like what I don't know he's doing some weird stuff he puts his hands

up here over there yeah that's awkward but yeah totally good yeah because you ever try like I got good at pushups when I was thinking actually I'm still pretty solid at pushups but you try to do a push up with you know adjusted you're like oh this is way off it's kind of like goes back to what we were saying it's like what you're used to

with your neuromuscular connection speaking of what we were saying what are saying is something about kettlebells yeah I'm into that now I'm precisely kind of wrap up right now. Then you started talking about other crazy squads and whatnot. That's, you know what? It is my fault. Next time I won't say anything.

Yeah, yeah. See, that's what I see what you did there. Look, you took blame. And you told me what you're going to do to fix it. Dang, extreme ownership in effect. Also, okay, wait. What were we talking about? Oh, yeah, I'm into kettlebells now.

Yeah. And you want to say where you should get your kettlebells? I'm not saying necessarily where you should. I'm saying where I got them. Okay. And if you want, you can get kettlebells anywhere. Where? Really?

What about cool kettlebells? Whoa, that's a different story, my friend. Anyway, I got mine from Onit. I'm not even saying get the cool kettlebells. I'm saying go to Onet.com slash jaco. Look at the kettlebells. You like those kettlebells? If you're going to get into kettlebells or if you're already currently into kettlebells,

get some of those if you like them. I like them. I got one, this small one. It's called Howler. A little Howler monkey. I think it's a monkey Anyway, holler monkey Kettlebell, it's like, I want to say 18 pounds

What's 0.5 pood? 8 pounds? A pooh to 16 pounds. Yeah. No, no, no, 16 kilos, I think. Oh, sorry, 16 kilos, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, so eight kilos, 16 pounds,

give or take, 17, 18 pounds. Anyway, I got one of those from my daughter, so my nephew comes, visits, he's 11. Not into working out. We'll just say that. Yeah. Is now. Is now.

Yeah. So I'm like, you know, he's one of these kids. He's like, you know, he's into math and whatnot. So I'm working out all the time. And I never really thought until someone maybe kind of suggested it to say, hey, come work out with me, you know. So I tell him, come work out. And he kind of caught him at the end where it was Metcon time. And he was like, hey, come work out because I saw him, you know.

And he's like, yeah. He's like, cool. Immediately, too, by the way. Be surprised. I'm not surprised. Yeah, man. I'm not surprised. They see you working out.

They're like, man, I want to be like that. Yeah. You know, in their head. Imagine when you were a kid. Remember you saw somebody that was all yoked? You're like, how do I do that? It's the whole reason I work out, to be honest with you. Like, remember the show American Gladiators?

Yeah. But it was not from when I was a kid. Yeah, no, no, no. I didn't watch it the way you were apparently. Yeah, bro, I was watching that. I was like, bro, I want to be American Gladiate because they were, it was like, because there were the mix between these big kind of almost like bullies. Not bullies, like, I bully people, but they were like, you know, when you play

video game you come against the boss who you look at him you're like I can't beat this guy I can't beat them but you're a normal character or whatever and then they end up with that's what American ladder eaters was in real life I was like dang those American ladder eaters are or money because they're athletic too I was like man I'd watch it I'd do a bunch of push-ups I was in like six-grade or something like that yeah it's a whole reason anyway I think a lot of kids have that in their mind especially the boys for sure in one way another so I was like hey come work out with me and he's like okay it's down his phone yeah he was on the phone yeah he was on the phone not anymore boom out there little uncle Jake scenario uncle Jake 100%

I was uncle Jake at that time legit nephew is there this actually he was video me I was in visiting me I wasn't visiting but nonetheless he comes I teach him the form and kids kind of have good form well he did because they're flexible yeah they're flexible they they haven't fallen into like improper patterns yeah maybe like like adult ever or something maybe I don't know that's just a guess but anyway so I'm like you know just the basic kettlebell swing I say I say this is what you're gonna do do it. I'll do it. I'll show you how. Give him little, little tips or whatever.

You know, it wasn't perfect for him. At first, you adjust and he could do it. Not the kind of all the way up or nothing, just a basic. I was like, all right. And my daughter happened to be there, and so she knows about burpees. So I was like, okay, what we're going to do is you're going to do kettlebell swings. Five. And then you're going to do burpees.

And then we're going to walk for 30 seconds, basically, my breath. But he's doing the kettlebell swings rather than the cleaning breasts. So then you're going to do burpees. Burpees is just jump down, do a push-up, and then jump up. and then jump up in there that's a burpee so he does it I was like well on the you know when you transition from standing to push up there's a there's some wiggle room there for error so I go I tell my daughter hey demonstrate she does she's four she can do it pretty good too by the way so she does it and um so of course he can do it he sees a little girl did so he does it makes the

adjustment boom he's good to go he's ready so I'm getting fired up because mine's about to be super hard like it normally is and he's like you could tell he's getting fired up too you know so I set the clock and we go and his was kind of easy to be on Because the kettlebell swings compared to the yeah and boom that kid did did the whole thing and he's all sweating afterwards, you know And he's the kind where he doesn't do that kind stuff, you know, but you could tell he was super fired up and you know what he said next What he said afterwards he's like hey next time you work out can you let me know there's straight up I was like a dang uncle echoes in the house in the house man in the house yeah So you write a book about that Yeah maybe I will it'll be the best book

ever for kids next next anyway they have a lot of good stuff you ever done battle ropes before yes you have but but not not never have like they were in some random gym I was at right I was like I've seen people doing this I'm gonna do some of them yeah they're like big yeah big ropes and they I guess that's a good exercise I had never done them before but I was considering that I saw some on there anyway a lot of good stuff on it dot com slash jocko check out all the stuff really good stuff for everything basically everything getting after it.

Also, good way to support is when you get your copy of AboutFace, of course, that's already on it, on our website. Jocklepodcast.com. That's the website, if you didn't know. The Clay Pigeons of St. Lowe. That's the current book. We just went over. That one is on the website as well. It's in the little section.

Menu item on the top of the website, joccoopodcast.com, click books from episodes. Boom, the list of books. By episode. Click through there. Yeah, and before you tweet me and tell me a good book that I should do on the podcast, check and see if I've already done it. Yeah, there's like what, like 60 books or so. And a lot of really good books that everyone knows. But if you haven't listened to the podcast and then you're telling me to cover with the old breed by Eugene Sledge or whatever, a lot of times people tell me to cover books that have already been on there. Yeah. So then I got to go and figure out which podcast it was so I can tell you. you to go and listen to podcast, you know, 10. Yeah. Which is with the old breed by Eugene Sledge.

There you go. I think. Yeah, something like that. But if, hey, you want to check that out. Like I said, it's all there by episode. And if you want a book, a reading list from me, that's my reading list. That's it. Yeah.

There's no other books. If a book is good and I read it, it's been on the podcast. And I'll do you one better because I have a small reading list that I added to that list. Oh, that's only one book. But I'm just saying. What is it, mind games? Mind games? Yes.

Michael Powell, you know, that's an easy read. It's kind of like the field manual, a small little version, different subject, but nonetheless. It's not like the field manual, dude. I haven't read it, but I know it's not. No, no, no, probably not. Anyway, back to this. As far as supporting, get your books through there. Click through. It goes to Amazon. You shop Amazon like we all do anyway, right? So when you get these books, like I said, listed by episode, click through there. And if you're doing other shopping, hey, feel free, you know? When you click through there, that's a small little action. Big reaction as far as support those. Kind of like, you know, when you throw sodium metal in water, you know? Oh, I know. Yeah, I haven't said it for a long time.

So I'm going to say it now just to remind everybody, when you throw sodium metal in water, it explodes. Big, huge. I learned that in chemistry class. My chemistry teacher's name is Mr. Bigelow, by the way. Kauai High School. Bark in the day. Anyway, also a good way to support.

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Jocko podcast on you know number whatever where it appears like between one and ten in the business section that is good that's cool but really the tangible benefit for the message is spreading the word right people if they get turned

onto it it improves everybody's life really because if you improve your life in all these ways it improves like your improvement is a direct effect on my improvement because I hang around with you so that's kind of how it's So that's really the benefit. So if you want to help spread the word, you can write a review.

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Emphasis on capital, G-O-O-D. Yeah. That's how. Layers. Layers in the review. Dang, they're everywhere. Where I'm telling you. But anyway, yeah, look, if you're in the mood, leave a review.

You know, as long as you're honest, that's the main thing. And, you know, get colorful with it if you want. Those are actually the fun ones. Like I said. Anyway, leave review. Yeah, sure. If you feel like it. Subscribe to YouTube.

We have YouTube. If you didn't know, everyone knows, I think. Yeah. Yeah, because we see it all the time. But in the event of this being the first time. But why wouldn't you subscribe to it then? Why wouldn't you? wouldn't someone subscribe to it if I were a person who oh wait if you're listening to the

podcast it makes sense yeah I don't know how many reasons there would ever be to not subscribe yes here this is what's the reason I listen to podcast audio I look I go to YouTube and I only watch people playing first person shooter video games you know how that I don't know if you know this but this that's a thing like people will watch other people on YouTube videos playing shooter games. Okay. Let's say I'm only into that. I'm probably not going to subscribe.

Or, actually, this one's actually the legitimate one that I can kind of dig and relate to, is if my YouTube subscribing situation is only to kid stuff, only to get stuff, because every once in a while I give my phone to my kid. Okay. And they watch like, you know, they watch like Peppa Pig, I don't know something well and then you click on the reason I say this is because a lot of times the podcast is Just what the podcast is on YouTube but like the other day you released a deleted scene It wasn't even deleted just pre-recording we were just talking yeah before and people seem to think it was pretty funny

Yeah even I thought it was quite funny yeah because when you detached it is really funny but the thing is if someone wasn't listening if someone's not on subscribe to YouTube They would never know that that existed yes And then you miss it and it's pretty funny. Yeah, I thought it was funny too. Yeah, even though it was kind of kind of harsh. You know, would you call me getaway sticks or something like that? Messed out. Anyway, yeah, see, now you're you just went into the reasons to subscribe. Oh, there's a whole reason good because, you know, the excerpts that we make put out just cut tiny segments, three minutes nowadays. Even though the deleted scene was 16 minutes. Yeah, you know, that's different. But. But it was pretty funny. Yeah. But the excerpts, you know, they're just like individual ideas that you talk about.

Boom, shareable. All good. That's a good reason to subscribe to YouTube, one of the many, my opinion. Also, Jocko is a store. It's called Jocco Store. Jocco store.com. That's the URL. On there, what do we have shirts?

Rash guards. Rash guards, we started for jiu-jitsu. But here's the thing. Rashguards are for surfing and bodyboarding. And jack-gards. Steal jacking steel. Yeah, cycling. These are all that's what really like a say it's a spandex shirt. There's little Things yeah, I guess the term rash guards only applies to surfing and because it doesn't you're not worried about getting a rash when you're lifting weights. You're not worried about getting a rat I guess yeah, I guess yeah, yeah, I guess so yeah Guard you against rash or or ringworm or yeah, so nonetheless. I mean the point there is is

is that it's for everything, just because you hear Jocco talking about Jiu-Jitsu all the time. You know what it's not for everything? Because I don't want to see you at the club in a get-after at Rashgard. Well, that's, you can speak for yourself. Because if I saw someone at the club with a get-after at Rash-Guard, I would say good evening to that person. Oh, that's a good point.

And I guess that's like that way from him. You can't be mad at him. No, actually I can't be. No rash guards when you're out. Not doing activities. I'm not a supporter of that. Yeah, you know what? To be completely honest, I don't know that I would support it or recommend it.

I mean, just like, hey, I'm going out. I'm going to the supermarket put on my get after at Rashgar. I guess if you're just like, you never know what's going to happen. Yeah. You might want to be ready. Right. It's true. I know you get some good workouts in the grocery store yourself.

You know, you're carrying the six-pack next to four, you know, long line. Yeah, it's true. If you're in the Rashgard, your compression, you're ready. It's absolutely true. And, you know, you want to look into that. Go to jocco store.com. So the shirts on there, you know, I try to add like a new one every what, like month or so. I don't know what your goal is.

Yeah, I don't know if I actually have a goal. I've been wearing Bronson's children t-shirt. Me too. Yeah, that's the one. Because that's, that's. Yeah, that's the shirt that you made. The one that you made with my face on it or whatever, dang. So I'd always get caught up on the front.

Like, ha, ha, that's funny. The front and all the layers on the front, but on the back it says, good evening. So when you wear that one, that's when people are going to talk to you the most. You know how like, you don't worry the one with your face on it ever, do you? No. There's no reason for you to.

No, it would be weird. Yeah, it would be weird. I already have my face. Yeah, you don't need two of them. You're wearing my face right now. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, look at that. But if you wear that one, it says,

good evening on the back so I I never really thought of this I haven't worn it I don't even have one but that's the when I'd wear this one good people will say something they were like good or be like oh you're good it's backwards you're sure it's backwards I don't know or who's that guy in your shirt whatever people will will say something to you the good evening one they'll talk to you even more but they'll do it from behind they'll tell you good evening every single time interesting you haven't worn it yet how do you know this no because I know I know I know the compulsion like I know the feeling that's my hypothesis anyway, and from what I hear from the field.

Anyway, go on there. If you like something, get something. That's a good way to support. There's some hats. Oh, really? Released? Coming out. Within one week. How about that? Cool? Okay.

All right, there it is. I better have like nine of them lined up at my doorstep because I need some of them hats. You got it, bro. I promise. So yeah, some patches on there as well. Anyway, check it out. If you like something, get something. also psychological warfare

if you don't know what that is it's an album with tracks Jocko tracks is Jocko talking getting you through various points of weakness in your I've been really trying to think of a word to say other than journey

I haven't yet so we're going to stick with journey so when you're on your journey you're trying to wake up you're trying to wake up early maybe I will do it you're trying to work out when you're trying to work out you're trying to

Workout every day. Every day, no. Even on rest days, you're doing a mobility watch for you like this. Yeah. Man, sometimes you want to turn those workout days into rest days, so don't do that. And if you need a little spot with that, you listen to psychological warfare. There's a track for that. For any point of weakness, like I said, get after it.

Psychological Warfare. Amazon music, iTunes, various other MP3 outlets, Jock willing. Now, first, if you haven't heard yet, we are now in league with origin USA. Little company that we are now a part of. It's been months in the making. We've been going back and forth with my boy Pete Roberts and who actually this is you want to talk about layers. The reason that we are linked up in the beginning, was because of Sarah Armstrong. Sure. Who heard me talking about how cool origin was. Yeah.

That they make everything in America. She sent Pete an email and said, hey, I know you run this company. And this guy was talking about you. You guys should talk to each other. Guess what? We talked. And now we're getting after it. Dang.

And we joined forces. So we're planning all kinds of things. And gear, geese, rash guards, planning some supplements, believe it or not. Is the rash guard back in stock? Not yet. We were doing a little We're doing a lot of building right now Yeah, yeah, yeah But we got all kinds of things coming basically you know basically I want to make everything that I use to get after it Yeah, I want to make

Yeah, so so everything and I'm and that when I say everything is not a long list I don't use that much stuff to get after it. Yeah, I use a pretty small list Yeah, but I want to Make it and I want to make it in a So if you want to check it out check out origin main.com because it's in New England Which where I'm from do you know no big deal layers layers indeed and also if you want to get Into it like now you want to find out really what's going on there's an origin immersion Jiu jitoo camp in Maine I realized I hadn't even explained what this is

You ever see see I'm from New England so I know what this is I know what a camp is you you may or may not know people in other parts of the country may or may or not know a camp in this form is in this situation it's a big lake and on the lake there's a property and on the property they have a bunch of little cabins a bunch of them like multiple cabins and when you go to a camp you stay in the cabins and then they have a kind of a central area well we are renting out the entire camp I don't know how many cabb it's like dozens and dozens of cabins right all these things on a lake and then there's a main kind of gathering area

well guess what we're putting in the main get guess what we're putting in the main gathering area let them max so we're gonna go you you know if you want to come you come up you come to main it's three hours from Boston it's an half an hour from Augusta Maine we're gonna be there echo and I are going to be there Tuesday Wednesday and Thursday there's two sessions that are going on the first one is the 20 the 20th through the 23rd I think Yeah, the 23rd, so Echo and I are going to be there Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. So we're going to be a part of both sessions.

And so come to that. And what we're going to do is we're going to train jiu-jitsu, but you can only train jiu-jitsu so many hours a day. So what else are we going to do? We're going to hang out. We're going to cruise. We're going to do some kind of, there's a big lake there. So you can't surf in the lake, but we'll figure something water activity out, right? And they're making lobster, and I don't like lobster, but I'm going to have steak.

And you can have lobster and and uh, yeah, so we're gonna be hanging out. Wait, so the lake, is the lake cold? Can we swim in the lake? You can swim in the lake regardless of how cold it is. I don't know about, I don't know the temperature of lake, but Maine, summertime, it'll be, it's not going to be freezing. Okay. I don't think. And if it is good, it's good for your muscles. Right, right. Recovery. And also during this, so during this thing too, if you come up or if you can't make that and you want to come up for this anyways, we're having the grand opening of our new origin. In Farmington, Maine. So big factory 20,000 square feet. I think it's bigger than 20,000 square feet

Everyone's invited to that come hang out. You know, I was thinking we do like we'll do like a Q&A or something We'll hang out. We'll bring books. We'll just we'll just kick it. So Come up to that that is the 23rd of August in Maine. Come and hang out like I said. What is the jiu-jitsu part of it? What how does that work like the you know there's two weeks? You can go for the whole thing. No, it's not two weeks. It's one week long. It's from the 20th to the 27th, but it's broken in two sessions So so what you mean sessions like what we all just roll you have different teachers They there's like a big multi seminar yeah, but but you know I think we're doing I think it's three sessions a day of jiu jitsu Yeah, I mean how how many sessions can you roll hard at so some of them's gonna say hey, you know, you know, I'll drill some technique with you or hey, maybe you can go over some foot lock stuff with me or what I mean? Yeah, I think there's gonna be some of that and but then there's also a bunch of different black belts gonna be there Yeah, hang out, show moves.

Yeah, yeah. Immersion. Yeah, immersion. That's how you learn. Gotcha. So I know Naco Nolan's coming to that from the West Coast. Respect. Yeah, he's coming out.

He just hit me up. So, yeah, come on up to that. We're going to have a good time. Also, when we're there, we're going to have some Jock White Tea. So if there's anyone that wants to instantly deadlift 8,000 pounds, you can get the Jocko White Tea. If you need to crush an academic test, get Jocco white tea. Get jockey white tea if you need some right now you can get some on Amazon books we've got some books

For your kid or whatever kids you know we got the way of the warrior kid There's lessons in there for everybody check it out if you want the first edition of discipline equals freedom Field manual order it soon or go to your bookstore and tell them you want to get it pre-order it Whatever you got to do Amazon Barnes and nobles your local bookstore get it Now, I'm going to tell you, don't get this book for your wine-sipping book club. Not a book for them. They won't like it. You're part of that club.

Don't get it for them. You can still get it, but don't bring it to the book club. Yeah, yeah. They're sipping wine. They're not in a game. But if you want to get stronger, tougher, smarter, healthier, and more prepared, all-around, better person, get the book. Discipline equals for your field manual. comes out October 17th, which means they're printing it almost now.

So that means if you don't order it, isn't there going to be backed up? You're not going to have it. Everyone else is going to have it. They're going to have an edge on you. Maybe you never recover. Like that battle I was talking about earlier, you know, someone else gets the edge on you. You just can't make it. Also, extreme ownership, own it, refer to it, highlight it, implement it, spread the word, get it for your team, your company, your organization.

wrote that with my brother Laif Babin so if you don't have that and you have copies for every single person that you've ever known get it for him also echelon front leadership consulting assessments instruction me Laf Babin J.P. Dinell Dave Burke get the team organized and coordinated for action and for victory that's my recommendation if you want to get that process going email info at echelonfront.com finally the muster is September 14th and 15th in San Diego all the other musters have sold out more than half the tickets for San Diego Diego have already sold out so this is gonna sell out don't get left out in the cold you can register at extreme ownership dot com and if you need to talk to us before you see us at the immersion camp in Maine And before you go to the muster in San Diego, you can find us on the interwebs, the Twitter, the Instagram, that Facebook, eboa, and also. You're on Snapchat?

I'm on it. I'm learning from my children. Okay. Good. That's the way people communicate now, the Snapchat. And I look to the pages, guess what? Wall Street Journal's on there. The Economist is on there.

It's not, it's not this thing for your teenage 14 year old kid anymore. Well, it is, but yeah. Well, maybe. It kind of got out of the basement as well. So it kind of grew. I don't know. There must be something to it. I don't know.

I'm talking rubbish, but I have a Snapchat. I don't use it. And I haven't like, you know, I think you got to like confirm your account. I was doing it because my daughter likes to make the faces. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crazy faces. My youngest daughter likes to do that too. Yeah.

So she did it on my wife's phone all the time and then she hit me up for it. Like, hey, let me do she calls it Snapchat. So she's like, let me Snapchat. She doesn't know what it is. She thinks it's just a face thing. So I'm like, all right, so I tried to do it. And so now I've got to confirm. I was like, no, so I didn't.

But I'm, yeah, I guess I'm like one foot in, one foot out kind of thing. Well, I'm not, I haven't posted anything yet. Yeah, yeah. I almost did. I was like trying to figure it out. Yeah, yeah. Dang, that's good, man. But Jade told me, this is what Jade told me, which was smart.

Yeah. This is what Jade told me. Your brother Jade. I said, you know what's just I don't really understand it. And he goes, that's why you need to do it. I know, bro. And I was like, wow. I said to myself, okay, you're right.

Don't like, oh, I'm afraid of something. Why am I afraid of it? Don't understand it. How do you overcome that? Yeah. Because apparently it's a good method of communication. And man, Jay, and not to say, Jade said so, so it's right. I'm not saying that, but he's real smart with that kind of stuff.

Like he knows, he sees, he knows the trends so he can like predict shit, those stuff like how, you know, like how to work and who's going to, he's, in fact, He what he does now is AI artificial intelligence with applications and stuff like that so he he knows that stuff So it's like when he kind of says he can't help but be like ah, you're right, you know even if you don't know you're like well Consider the source kind of thing in fact he got me into Cryptocurrency investment so I invest me and I'm up 30% that's all I'm gonna say about it So I'm like I hate to give him him the credit for that but you can't help it Yeah good

Well you can find us on the interwebs. Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jago Willink and finally thanks to everyone that makes this podcast possible. First our military whose strength and true warrior culture allows us the freedom to do what we want to do and thanks to the police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, first responders who are ever vigilant and always ready I was just driving back from Yosemite and there big forest fires up there and all kinds of people had signs out

saying thanks to the firefighters so thanks for you guys up there in the mountains fighting the fires and to the rest of you that are out there working building making and squeezing every ounce of life that you can crushing every minute of every day out there leading in the face of adversity and doing everything you can to be everything you can to all you thanks for being in the game with us and thanks for getting after it so until next time this is echo and jaco Out.