Jocko Podcast - 91: How to Win Back Authority. What to Think About When You Don't Feel Like Getting After It. Being a Renegade Leader. What to do When You Can't Get Through to Someone. Balancing Decisiveness w/ Carefulness.

Episode Date: September 6, 2017

0:00:00 - Opening 0:00:20 - How to Be an Effective Renegade Leader. 0:11:03 - How to Train Jiu Jitsu when Deployed. 0:25:54 - Being Decisive VS. Carefulness. 0:45:14 - What to do with a Star team member who slacks off. 1:00:14 - What to do if you can't get through to a person. 1:08:40 - How to re-gain respect/authority after you've lost it. 1:19:43 - No Bad Teams, Only Bad Leaders - Explained. 1:41:29 - What to think about when you don't feel like GETTING AFTER IT. 1:45:33 - Support, JockoStore stuff, Origin Brand Apparel, with Jocko White Tea and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. Extreme Ownership Muster 004 in San Diego. 2:25:15 - Closing Gratitude.  Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 91 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. And we are rolling straight into Q&A today. So questions from the interwebs. Echo Charles, go. Go. Okay, first question.

Jocko, I've just finished about face, the book. Amazing book. Interested how you modeled your, style on hackworth though hack was a renegade and always bending the rules to break to the breaking point but in extreme ownership you talk about for example not pushing back on higher command when it came to Iraqi troops have listened to podcast too but was hoping you could go into it a bit more yeah so I guess that that's a good question hack he was kind of considered a renegade but but also he was also a total company man you guys you guys

got to realize that there's that dichotomy there there's a guy that hack loved the army he loved the army he wanted his uniform would look super squared away he followed all the rules and regulations that and he supported the leadership all the time when the leadership was right and that's what makes him a good renegade in my opinion and i was very much the same way i was all about the navy you know i was all about the dames as a matter of Tony you know what Tony used to say it was a little thing we got going in T u bruiser that spread around but of course it came from Tony first which was all Navy all the time we'd just be joking about you know I think I don't know what

originally caused it but like guys would make fun of me because I would wear like jungle boots or Dan or boots out to on Liberty with a pair of like old jeans yeah because when you're when you're like that kind of old just raised in the teams you don't even know any different and you're like oh well I'm going out and I need to wear shoes cool where's my jungle boots that's what you end up like and and you're into it you're not like you think it's good you think it's normal like this is the way things are that's not and and so I supported the teams and hack supported the army of course but this is the thing if the leadership was wrong or there was something being passed down that was wrong and it was a big wrong like if it was

a little I wouldn't be like oh man this is crap there making us wear a different pair of shorts now because like that would happen like some new commanding officer would come in and change some thing right and some guys we go man why we got to do that way it's like dude be quiet you know just be quiet you know they're giving you new shorts wear the new shorts you know oh they're telling us we can't wear baseball hats anymore cool don't wear baseball hats yeah and some guys we go man they're sure it's who cares it's like I don't care what I'm wearing on my head you know like oh you want to issue us different ball caps find whatever but then if it was a larger issue then or obviously if it was something that was like

actually wrong like criminally wrong or morally wrong or something like that then yeah I'd be like no we can't do that so the reason that I didn't push back on Iraqi troops and working with Iraqi troops when we got to Ramadi was because as I looked at it I realized that it was the right thing to do and yes it was going to be more dangerous and yes it definitely took us out of our comfort zone but as I explain in extreme ownership if we didn't train those people up if we didn't train the Iraqi soldiers and take them out and get them fighting and get them squared away on the battlefield then Americans would have been doing it forever so it was the correct call was to do that now I've talked about the same same thing when they told us a ratio

they gave us a ratio of how many Iraqis we had to have for every one Iraqi we had to have I don't know what they're I forget what the number was seven or or for every one seal we had to have seven Iraqi soldiers they said that something like that I forget what the numbers were and I said that doesn't make sense to us because sometimes we only have ten guys to go out and I'm there's no way I'm sending only one seal with 10 Iraqi soldiers not doing it need a corpsman need a radio man need a machine gunner need a leader like that that's what I need so and when I pushed back because I didn't push back against ball caps and because I didn't push back against some stupid uniform change uh they were like

oh yeah well that actually makes sense jocco we don't want you to go in the field with only one seal so I would clearly push back if it was something that didn't make it same thing with like the martial arts training that they had us doing in the in the late 90s and early 2000s it was not good and I was told everyone hey this is not smart this is not good this training is dumb we need to do other training that's better and and same thing you know things go oh like here's another like stupid example they wouldn't want to issue a platoon the the radios you were going to take on deployment because they didn't want you to break them or whatever and So they'd issue not enough radios for everyone.

And so now everyone doesn't know how to operate the radios. And you're basically operationally testing the radios while you're going through your workup. So I said, hey, this is garbage. Issue everyone radios. If that's how we operate, that's how we need to train. Gotcha. So in the training, they wouldn't issue the radios. Yeah, there was like a time period where we were low on radios.

And they said, we're going to keep these radios for deployment. That doesn't make sense. Yeah. I got a good idea. Buy more radios. Yeah. So, you know, those were things I'd push back on it. And you were always pushing back on the type of training.

That was gonna happen and who is gonna be how you're gonna run the training so When something when it made sense to push back I pushed back just like Hackworth did now hackworth did it on a massive scale because he eventually pushed back on the way the war in Vietnam was being run And had I been smart enough and the war didn't take the shift that it took and we didn't move towards counterinsurgency and we didn't make those adjustments that the that the that Colonel McFarlane implemented in Ramadi maybe maybe I doubt it maybe I would have been smart if to say hey we're not running this war right we need to do something different and run out the chain of command but but at the time you know colonel McFarland made great decisions he led he had a great plan a great strategy so I was 100% on board but if you know Hackworth that didn't happen they were not fighting correctly against the Vietnamese and and they were taking

massive casualties for a hill that two days later they've given back And so he was saying what are you doing and the other thing you know when he took over the hardcore battalion They were fighting for months and they had they had literally killed Of almost no enemy. I think it was zero. I think it was actually zero enemy and yet they had taken all kinds of casualties themselves And so he's saying wait this is wrong This is wrong. So I think that's that's what being a leader is You support the stuff you support the command. Yes of course you support the command when it makes sense and as long as it makes sense.

And normally it's going to make sense. You know what I mean? Normally it's going to make sense. Not like the admirals and the generals are saying, hey, how can we lose this war? Let's come up with a stupid strategy. No, they're doing the best they can. So it's not like it's a regular occurrence.

I mean, like I said, when I was working for Colonel McFarland, he was a smart guy. He was a brilliant guy that had a great strategy. I'm like, okay, awesome. I'm here to support. And I'll tell you, when I did, and I think this is important, is that even though I was kind of a renegative,

And I was more rebellious when I was a kid obviously I was a I was young when I got the seal teams And so you know we would push all those things that I said oh we got to do this that was me when I was a E4 in the seal teams, you know what do we got to do that? We should just be able to do whatever we want You know we were just stupid but as I got older I realized that You need to you know you come across as a renegade quote unquote to come across as a big rebel that doesn't well Immediately when you go and push back on something everyone just dismisses you You oh yeah Jocco he's just a loud mouth he just he just pushes back against everything he doesn't want to do everything his way No you want them to say oh wow hold on a second if Jocco is pushing back against this

Yeah, then this this must be something wrong here because he doesn't push back against stuff he tells the line all the time So we should listen to him that's what you want to build that's what I did my best to build And that's how I think it would be comparable to the way Hackworth led and the way that I tried to Obviously, I ain't no Hackworth, but I stole as much as I could from him. And the weird thing is, I'll tell you this. I always say I stole from him, but it wasn't like I was sitting there reading the book and going, I'm going to do what he did here. I think it was just absorbed. And even the naming of Task Unit Bruiser, like when I did it, I wasn't thinking this is what Hackworth did, but it was real obvious that that's where I got it from.

I didn't think, I'm going to rename this and we're going to turn this thing around based on. We're not turned around, but we're going to build this based on, no. I was like, you know what, we're not going to be tasking at Bravo, because that sounds lame. We're going to be tasking at a bruiser because that sounds awesome. You. And then later, you know, I was like, I'm like, oh, God, that's exactly what Hackworth did. I obviously stole it from him.

Yeah, yeah. So, appreciated Hack. But that's what I'd say. Be a renegade, but that should be, that should be in the background. That should be in the back of your mind. In the front of your mind should be, hey, I'm a supporter of what's happening. Yeah Kind of like the willingness to be a renegade if you have to yeah, yeah

If you have to and believe me I've known all kinds of good seals that were two renegade Yeah, yeah, that's just like I'm a renegade yeah, they're just straight up hey I'm a renegade and and you know that just The only guys that could get away with that were guys that were so Ultimately operationally squared away. Yeah, yeah that people go yeah, you know he's kind of a maniac, but dude. He's really really good and really tactically sound and all that and they could they make that happen now as you get more and more senior homie don't play like that yeah after a certain point it's done and you've got to get you got to play the game that's what you got to do as you get more senior you got to play the game and from like your subordinates viewpoint if if they look to me and go oh jocco

was just playing the game he's just doing yes I am yes I am because this way gives me more ability to control everything that's going to impact you people that work for me. So yes, I'm gonna play the game so you don't have to. Yeah, yeah. You're welcome. So, yeah, check. Yeah, man. Makes sense. Next question. Jiu-jit-j-j-j-jitu during your time in Iraq. If you like, please paint me a picture how to imagine a BJJ class from you as an active soldier. Did you have a ghee, mats, and how would it differ from a quote unquote normal class?

Um, so yeah, I always brought mats with me starting with 1998, I think is when I started bringing maths with me. How do you bring mats? Do you just be like, hey. In military transport, you build something called a pallet. Oh, right. So you get a big pallet, and they're like eight feet by eight feet. Yeah.

They're pretty big. And you put stack all kinds of stuff on them. Yeah. And, you know, you got your weapons. Just whatever you like. You got your engines. You got your motors. You got your motors.

You got your boats your your zodiac boats you got paddles you got all this I mean all the equipment Everyone's personal gear is on there their op gear their body armor It's all on these big pallets and when you go on deployment you'll have eight pallets eight of these giant pallets And so on some of those pallets there would be mats so who is it up to though? You know you're talking about Weapons and zodiacs and and then that's like who yeah it up to? Well, whoever's in charge Which which a lot of times was me So then it made it real easy. Yeah.

And even if it wasn't me, I mean, everybody, you know, if people are bringing something to help everyone get better, you know, people, yeah, that's cool. So is it like an approval process? No, man. You just like this is what we're doing. Bro, there was guys bringing all kinds of crazy things on ballots, man. I remember guys, well, you know, guys would bring surfboards. I mean, they'd pack their surfboards on pallets. They'd pack weights and squat racks and anything that you want.

If you're going on a six-month deployment to a remote location, yeah, you're going to load out a squat rack. And a bunch of bumper plates and if that remote location has waves you're packing surfboards If it has if it has you know rock climbing you're gonna pack rock climbing gear Yeah, that's I'm telling you this is one of the things that it's really hard to The seal teams it's really hard to have that I think we I think in the seal teams have that better than Most people is just this this autonomy to kind of make things happen and do kind of cool stuff Yeah, yeah and I'm not saying no no Whenever gets to do that but you know I I don't think a regular army unit or regular Marine Corps unit would be putting

You know seven surfboards on their yeah So where's the where's the limit though like so what can I let's say me we're going can I get a Like a TV can I get a TV and B cair TVs like big screen? Yeah, yeah yeah It just it also depends on where you're deploying what you're doing what the mission is Because you know my first time to Iraq we didn't have much of any of this stuff obviously, yeah We just had our op gear, basically. And, but the second time, the second time I went to a rack, we brought more, but we actually had to weld a squat rack.

It's pretty awesome. There's a, there's a Marine, that there's a great Marine that was with us, and he ran, he manned the radios, and he was just a, just an awesome guy. And he was, he was a Marine, but he was, there was Marines across the river, and so he was supposed to keep continuity, and he got assigned to us. Anyways, awesome guy. and he knew how to weld he was from a farm up in Montana or something so he knew how to weld and he had the gear and we didn't have a squat rack and so our C B's because there's a bunch of C Bs with us too they got they were able to like just come up with stuff yeah they'd make anything happen my my my head C B was just could see B that's C B's build things and they also acquire things let me see that way is combat builder it's it's a combat engineer You're a battalion, it's a construction battalion.

That's what it is. So it's CB for sure, but it's the C-Bs. And so, yeah, they build things, and they also are very good at acquiring things. You know, things just show up at your base and my guys were awesome at acquiring things. And we didn't have a squat rack, which is crazy to me to be, have no squat rack, right? Why don't you have a squat rack? So this, this marine welded a squat rack. Now here's the interesting part.

The squat rack, he was, he was tall. He was like maybe six four or six five maybe not that tall but he was the marine guy the marine welder So on this squat rack there was you know there's adjustable things to to put the bar on Well this didn't have adjustable things it just had two hooks and there was one hook at his height or one set of hooks at his height and one set of hooks at my height Everyone just had to figure it out from there Yeah, but but yeah, so yeah you could bring you could bring that if you wanted to and so so yes we brought mats I I brought mats on that deployment and both, actually, both my deployments to Iraq brought mats.

And then one of the class, like, well, generally you're training with people that don't know anything. And I would have trained with them in the workup, you know, so they're starting to learn and they're like, you know, low level white belts or mid-level white belts or even high level white belts. I don't think I even had one blue belt

on either one of my deployments. And the good thing is, their team guys, they're athletic, they're strong, they're in good shape, they wanna learn. So they learn fast, they're tough. They're, like I said, strong and athletic so you're gonna get good roles yeah I mean what the more you teach them the better the roles get talking about ghi or no ghi we never I never traveled

with a ghee for the military I don't think and so what what I started wearing almost all time was cammy pants and a t-shirt and what's cool is I did that when I soon as soon as I started jihitsu I was training with other seals that were in camy pants and and a t-shirt because it didn't make sense to wear like a camy top yeah and so what's cool is without knowing it when no one was training no gie I was actually training no gey because I did was just training with guys with t-shirts on now they were wearing pants but but anyway so yeah that's what we'd wear cammy pants and a t-shirt would we

occasionally put on op gear occasionally but but not not very often the other thing you got to watch out for with with my former organization in the SEAL teams is there's guys that would go nuts like they didn't want to tap because you get major egos and so guys could occasionally go psycho sometimes when I when I pit certain people against each other sometimes I'd have to basically officiate slash be a safety officer to make sure that no one actually got killed because they'd be trying to kill each other and no one wants it's happening after they're hey man you can't you know you're about to your arms about

to get broken stop so you had to do some of that and I'm I am a bit of an instigator yeah I mean you see it now I still do it on the mat Today, you know, I mean, if there's two guys that are going hard against each other, but maybe they're not going super hard. Yeah, yeah, they could go harder. It's real easy to escalate that. Yeah, I know. And so I would escalate matches between guys as well.

And then, you know, I'd just roll with everyone. So, yeah, what would the class be like? We'd teach some moves, just like a regular jituitous class, teach some moves, go over some stuff, and then roll. And that's it. Pretty simple. Good times. Yeah, I found that if you can do little drills with yourself, if you go, if you're a high-level guy and you're going with a white belt, especially if they're athletic, what you do is you know how like when you roll with a guy who's maybe one level, give or take from you, you, or let's say they're one level lower, you'll kind of slowly put yourself into better or worse situations. You won't go all out or nothing like that.

Yeah. But this is kind of counterintuitive. If you go with like a beginner beginner, but they're athletic, what you do is you try to, you think of a finish or a position. Yeah, as fast as you possibly can. Oh. So if you're like, okay, I'm going to start on the bottom.

So you're going to force them on. No, no, well, depends on what you mean. You're going to go as fast as you can. You got to force it. Yeah. You have to force an arm lock. If you say, I'm going to finish this with an arm lock, you're going to have to force him into that position somewhat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you can set it up, sure. Yeah, exactly right. That's what, that's really the drill is that you got to set it up. Given what he does. And he could be retreating the whole time. Sure, so it's going to take longer. It's just, that's just how Jiu-Jitsu is.

But that's the drill in your head. Rather than, you know, let's say, an intuitive method to roll where the white belt is. Let's just go light. Let's see what he does. Let him even get a good position on you. And then I'll work out or whatever. But no, don't do that. Be like, okay, I'm going to treat this person like a person that I have to in real life subdue with.

And you choose whatever way. That's a good game to play, actually. That is a good game to play. And then you get real good at that. Like going from one thing and then it's also I don't play that game very often I don't know what there's something that snaps in my head sometimes I'm like okay. I'm gonna just smash this person But you know sometimes I'll be watching the clock and when there's 40 seconds left I'll be like I'm gonna try and submit this dude in the next 40 seconds or this is when I'm going against someone that's good

You know what I mean? That's honestly I'd do that with you sometimes where you can feel me chilling and I'm all of a sudden I'm like oh wait There's only 30 seconds left and I have to go super hard to try and get you and sometimes I don't give myself enough time And so then I have to learn to get better. Yeah, and yeah, me saying that agree. Like I don't do that in training. Because what I hardly, my lazy instinct is I always go just enough better than the person I'm going against to maintain and eventually finish them. See, and that's good because you give the other guy good training. Yeah, and that's kind of the point with not, you don't want, if you go in regular juice class and you're like, you know, upper belt mean like purple brown black belt and you go against a white belt, you get.

paired up with a white belt I'm not saying necessarily to do that all the time because it's kind of you kind of it's a relationship you have with your training partners so if I'm like okay every white belt I go against or any beginner I'm just going to go as hard as I can it's like bro what are you doing to the guy sure good sharp that that's why that's why for what you're saying for blue belts to do that is not good for blue belts do that white belts they don't have the skill yet yeah yeah that's true it should be like purple belt brown belt black belt yeah that's going to be that's going to be like okay I'm going to Test my efficiency on making this happen really quickly.

Yeah. Blue belt against an athletic white belt is going to be it's going to be World War Seven. Yeah, yes. True. And there's injuries that are waiting to happen. Yeah. Because a purple belt generally is not going to get injured, not going to generally injure someone

from being in a bad position. Blue belt white belt, maybe. It could be some bad scenarios. Yeah. And so really the point in doing that is like in a scenario like your situation where you don't have anyone to train with except for beginners that are all athletic. hungry so it's like okay well what do I do you know you know it's cool I would come home from deployment better at jiu jitsu than when I left for sure that happened on every deployment

when I came home I was better at jiu jitzu than when I left but not only better than I was but I was in keeping with the standards of the guys I was training with yeah so you know I'm rolling with Dean before I leave and I come back and I am now doing better than I was against Dean before I left where he's been here training the whole time. So that says to me that is an effective way to train. You know, you just, you just and so that's why there's really no excuse. A lot of people ask, you know, what should I do? I live four hours away from the closest gym and get some friends, put some mats on the ground, watch YouTube and start training with each other. And occasionally when you get the chance, go somewhere to a school once a month, once every two

weeks, so you can learn. Yeah. Yeah. And I think in your situation is kind of a, Not necessarily unique, but kind of a specific type of situation where you have all the fundamentals essentially down. True. True. So, you know, like habitual stuff, stuff that you just automatically do with certain techniques, which is the correct technique, you know? So I think that you'll benefit more in that way where you can train with beginners and train a way and get better. But I'm talking about when I was a blue belt myself. Yeah. I still got a lot better when I would be on deployment. Yeah. And when I was a purple belt, when I was a brown belt. Yeah still still it's just like a little just a smaller version of that idea where if you're a beginner and you're like okay I've never

taking jih Tzu I'm gonna start on YouTube or whatever I don't think you can benefit for those situations oh no you can definitely benefit from those situations Oh no you can definitely benefit from the not as much you can benefit You can definitely benefit yeah it's better it's a thousand times better than not doing anything and not train Oh yeah and if you got one person that has that gift of being able to like understand what's happening Maybe you got a wrestler in there, bro, that's going to help you so much. Or maybe you got someone that did judo. Maybe that's going to help you so much.

But even if you don't, you just start looking at it and saying, okay, what's happening in this, what's happening right there? Okay, try that arm lock on me. And you get some of those good YouTube videos that really break things down well. Yeah. You can learn a lot. I think you can't because I didn't have to learn that way. Luckily. Yeah, yeah, luckily you got to train with the best guys in the whole entire world.

So, you know, hey, you know, to each of their own. Kind of nice. Spoiled. Yeah. Actually, Hodger, Gracie, who's, you know, We not even arguably Top three all time Ever he and he was actually telling me

He's like I don't have like a team of world class guys to train with He's like sometimes I train with Browleyo sometimes Because he's in England He's in England. Yeah so he has like he's like I only train with my students and who are good and they give awesome training But they're not I don't have world class training partners like my opponents do kind of thing And The results speak to themselves kind of pretty amazing Yeah

So man to kind of teach their own But all these things yeah can be beneficial even even if they don't necessarily seem like it Yeah and you know what I think actually this is leading to is like you get what you make out of Yeah exactly yeah, there's people in the UFC that have done the same thing that came from some random camp and they're training hard and they go and win The Connor McGregor he didn't come from he didn't come from Greg Jackson Yeah, yeah he didn't come from American top team He came from a you know their school with Kavanaugh.

And obviously they're doing something right, but same thing. He didn't have the highest level guys to train against. He trained, I'm not saying slagging off their training partners, but it's not, it wasn't a known camp when he came around. Right, right.

He's, so he's a guy like that. Max Holloway, he's out in Hawaii, right? He's training hard, but he's coming out here winning the UFC championship based on, you know, his training partners. So I think guys that, that actually understand what they need to do,

they do it, they get it done. They don't make any excuses. Nope, at the end of the day. They don't even want any excuses. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but the end of the day, that's it, right? Check. Next question.

With life decisions, is it better to be decisive and take actions to move forward, even if sometimes those decisions are wrong, as opposed to being paralyzed by indecision and fear, thus getting maneuvered on by life. I ask this because I struggle with life decisions and have trouble committing to one path due to eclectic interests. After listening to your podcast, I'm thinking it's better to be aggressive

and maneuver on the battlefield of life as long as I'm prepared to adapt rather than sitting around and letting circumstance dictate my actions. Well, it sounds like he kind of answered his own question there, which is good. Yes, it is better to be aggressive. It's better to be decisive. This Does not mean burning bridges and I think we've talked about this before it doesn't mean that you just you just say I'm quitting my job right now Because I'm gonna go start a new life as a Whatever your new job is gonna be right I'm gonna start a business selling widgets and I'm just gonna go all in because I'm committed Well you you know how long it takes produce those widgets and where you know so there's a lot of issues with that you know There's a way though to to mitigate risk on your decisions and actually

Actually at the at the camp we were in up in Maine there was a lot of guys that were you know listen to the podcast and one of them Really good really good guy He was talking me about his business and the business which I'm not gonna go any details, but he's basically saying look. I got this business It's going well. I want it to do better and I'm kind of weighing this decision between bringing on He says no I want to bring on like six people To really help expand and grow and all that stuff. He said, but if I do that and we have a couple rough, you know, if we hit some bad luck, I might be upside down and not be able to handle it and

And and what I really am scared of is like that's not just me, but it's now it's my family. I got a wife and I got kids and now I'm hedging the The comfort and safety of my family. So I don't know what to do and I said, okay, well, do you have to go all in? Right? Do you have to Turn around tomorrow and go you know what we're going all in I'm gonna hire these six people we're gonna expand and hopefully if everything goes right We'll do really well You don't have to do that you don't have to put that much on the table Instead I said I said well how many people do you actually really need right now And he said probably one or two and I was like okay Why don't you bring on one and and start to see where that goes and be prepared to look for another person to bring on two and then as those

Those two people work out and you're starting to fill their labor every day and they're they have work to do because you're expanding the cool bring on three and and guess what if you hit a hiccup and things start going sideways for whatever reason that's cool you don't have those additional four people or three people on board that you're paying payroll to every month which is normally what kills businesses or one of the common things that kills businesses so it's the same so so that's a good example right and he was he thought to himself and he looked at me said absolutely I'm gonna go do that Yeah, yeah, and so he's probably back at his job right now running his business and probably Hiring a person to start expanding not hiring six people and putting all of his chips on the table Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, where it's a cool gamble. Let's say the percentage of winning is 70% you're like yeah, I'm just gonna do it There's a 30% chance you lose and now your now your family has no house and no food So that's not what we want to do so why not just put some of your chips on the table Yeah, and you can still win and make a little bit you still you still improve your position

So we got to do that with life too like I said you don't quit your job to start building widgets when you don't know what you're doing You got to why not just build the widgets in your spare time Yeah see what not yeah start putting those things on the internet start seeing how they sell start getting a little income from them Let them grow and then finally when you feel like the balance start to tip Maybe there'll be a last minute jump where you be like okay now I'm gonna go for it Yeah, but what you're committing to is something solid something tangible and something that's making money Right we're not jumping in and committing to something that's an unknown we're gonna commit something To something that's known and and I think it's important to note that that right there

Is not a lack of commitment and this is you hear these like you know people on the interwebs They'll be like you know why you haven't made yet because you haven't committed a hundred percent That's why you if you want to do it you got to commit with everything you've got well and so what people think is Okay, well I'm just gonna quit my job because I'm gonna go for him to commit and then I'll be successful because this guy over here told me if I committed I'd be successful It's actually not true You can be a thousand percent committed to something and you can still fail I got bad news for you that's the reality You know that's the reality of do you think the people at Blackberry weren't committed to their game? You know what I mean? You know, but what happened to Blackberry?

It's it's they were committed but they made some bad decisions and guess what now Blackberry is not really in the game anymore Well they think they changed games. I'm not 100% sure but People think that that because you didn't quit your job and put Go all in and put all your chips on the table that you're not committed and I actually don't agree with that and I'll and I'll get here's my example If. Okay, I think that commitment is actually harder To do when it's a long-term Commitment that you're going okay. You know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna stay at my job, but I'm gonna work three hours a day on this other thing I'm gonna be manufacturing I'm gonna be making my widgets three hours a day when I get home at 10 o'clock at night

I'm gonna go until one o'clock at night I'm gonna go until one o'clock and the morning making my widgets that's commitment it's actually smart commitment it actually in some ways takes more commitment to do that then it does just to quit your job and say I'm all in because now you're holding you're balancing all these different things you're carrying more of a burden so that actually takes more commitment the problem is that people they they get weak and after the fourth night of making widgets at 10 o'clock at night they go yeah I am not I'm good it's cool I have a job I have a job yeah and so that's weak I you know an example be

What if you could get in Excellent physical condition In three hours? But it was just like the hardest three hours That you could imagine Think about that And your body would transform From whatever crap condition you're in right now

Into a specimen And it's going to take three hours of just hell Yeah How many more people would be an amazing condition? I think a ton more because committing for three hours to something even it was going to be super bad people would be able to do it What takes more commitment and the reason everyone's not walking around like a perfect specimen is because it doesn't take three hours It doesn't take three weeks. It doesn't take three months. It takes a daily grind that goes on for years that you have to hold the line on on the way you eat on the way you exercise on Your life and that takes real commitment. Yes so it isn't a lack of commitment. It's planning

It isn't a lack of commitment. It is mitigating risk and don't confuse again. I think that the person that commits To something and still maintains this other income stream for example that person is at least as committed if not more committed Then the person says you know what screw it. I'm going all in over here. I'm forgetting about you know quitting my job and that's not a smart move. Yeah. And it takes more, that's actually an easier. That's my point.

It's easier in many ways to go, you know what? I'm quitting this day job. I'm quitting my nine to five. I'm sick of that cubicle. I'm sick of that construction site. I'm just going all in over here. That is an easier move.

That takes less commitment than saying I'm going to shoulder the burden of working 15, 18, 20 hours a day for the next two years until I can get this thing stood up enough to where I can execute it. Yeah. Yes, it's almost like people are conflating the commitment. You know, it's like they, almost people want to,

want to do a big show of commitment by quitting their job, but it's more of just a show of commitment. It's a show, exactly. It's either you're committed or you're not kind of thing. Yeah. And then, so a lot of times with these big shows of commitment comes just an immense amount of stupidity, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Meanwhile, you can either commit or don't commit. Yeah. You know, yeah, sure. If you don't quit your job and you make widgets It's and you don't commit, sure. It's like, all right, you can facilitate your non-commitment. Yeah, yeah. I dig it.

Your real job, your nine to five job is an enabular to you not committing fully. Yeah. Yeah. But by no means is that, you know, proof. Yeah, yeah. And it's important to note that don't confuse, and this is another mistake. So people make mistakes on either ends of the spectrum. The other one is don't confuse planning and mitigating risk.

with not taking action because that can happen too. You have to make things happen every single day. That's what you have to do. If you don't take action, if you don't move, which is what this guy's asking about, then yeah,

you're paralyzed and you're never going to get anywhere. But all you have to do is chip away at that thing. You've got to make a little bit of movement every day. You want to write a book, and this is something I'm familiar with now because I'm writing books. I'm writing another book right now. Hell yeah.

And you know what I got to do? I've got to chip away at that thing every day. Every day. Yeah. Every day. There's your commitment thousand words a day 45 minutes maybe an hour that's what it takes and guess what if I can't get that hour for whatever reason Guess what I'm gonna get to 20 minutes? I'm gonna get 30 minutes. I'm gonna get something to get in there. I'm gonna do work

Because I'm gonna be close to my goal than I was. Yeah, that's the way it is Yeah, man and I think you got to see that live didn't you? Yes You know honor like it was my honor That's but that's where it has happens where else is it gonna happen right yeah we're flying back from Maine right I was you know echoes cruising good yeah I think I fell asleep couple times yeah you were kind of in and out but I was I was I was hammering I was I was doing what I have to do mm-hmm because if I don't do it then when's that when I'm gonna get that hour that was that was four hours

I had right there yeah technically five yeah couldn't get my computer out for the first a little bit oh yeah they didn't let you so whatever oh good yeah I was kind of at times I was peeking over your shoulder like reading oh what's jocco writing over here and then I see uh what was it I saw the name Kenny Williamson in there oh no I know what jock was writing right now yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah or you know you got to be you got to have a progress you know like you got to take that step you know do it um sounds obvious but man how many times if i know this like my friends and you know whatever uh you go on i don't know online or whatever and you see people complaining

about you know stuff never happens for me you know fml you know fml means yes stuff never happens to you that's right and stuff never happens for you that's right yeah that is life yeah stuff doesn't happen for you in life yeah you got to go and make it you know i've explained to my kids you want to make money, you have to take that money from someone else. You have to take it from them. People aren't just going to walk up and give you money. Yeah.

Right? That doesn't happen. That's never happened to me in my life. No one has ever walked up and given me money. Yeah, me neither. You got to take that money. They got to give it to you. You got to make them.

You got to take it from them. Yeah. They want that money too. So what are you going to give them that's going to allow you to take it from them? Yeah. So, yeah. Guess what? Nothing happens for you?

That's right. Nothing does happen for you. You have to make it happen. Yeah. That's the default aggressive mindset. That you are going to make things happen. Not going to sit around and wait for things to happen. It's not going to happen.

Yeah. It's not going to happen. Oh, well, guess what? I read a story about this, such and such a person, and they just walked into this, you know, agency, and they thought they looked, did a really good job and now they're famous. Okay, that's great. Base your life on that percentage chance of happening. It's not happening. Yeah.

I actually look at that and just think, might just be. The chances of anything like that happened to me are zero. Nothing good is going to happen to me like that, that I'm just going to get a good deal like that. It's not happening. Zero. Yeah, yeah. So if you're going to get it,

you're going to have to make it happen. Yeah. Next quest. You know what I'm saying? That should be the red flag right there then, right? Basically for someone who's like, you know, when am I going to get my big break or, or, you know, nothing happens for me kind of thing.

That should be the red flag, right? When it's like, yeah, yeah. As soon as you're talking about, The fact that you're not that things aren't coming to you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that should be a real big red flag Nothing is gonna come to you not happening Not happening You gotta go and make things happen

And once you have that attitude, I'll tell you what it's a game changer. Yeah, it's a game changer Once you realize that that book that's so good that's in your head is not gonna write itself Yeah, once you realize that widget that you have this plan for isn't gonna build itself Yeah, then you'll realize like okay, I'm gonna have to make these things happen and and you Even then, guess what? You can make a widget that no one wants to buy. And you can write a book that no one wants to read. And if you're not okay with that, which is another thing that happens.

People say, well, you know, no one will like it. Okay. Well, if that's what you think, well, then don't even write it. Unless you want to write it for yourself. Then write it for yourself. And cool, be proud. Be stoked. Be happy.

Yeah. It's interesting. Let's say a book, right? For example, this kind of reminds me of where, you know how, let's say, I don't know me I'm a let's say oh I'm a I'm a pretty good writer in fact I even wrote a book before whatever and then my friend on Instagram Facebook whatever someone my neighbor whatever they write a book and they they release it and then they write another one and let's say it's not even really that good but it's out there they're like look at my new book and you know

they got people support oh that's awesome you wrote a book and I mean while I'm like kind of sour grapes a little bit I'm like I'm a better writer than than that person meanwhile I didn't write any more books you know I'm over here or you wrote one yeah yeah I wrote a one yeah I back in the day long time ago, you know? But, you know, I'm saying I'm in that arena, you know, and I'm kind of in my mind hating on this person. There's people that hate on them that never even wrote a book in the first place. Yeah.

Oh man, I'm a better writer. I'm a better film guy. I'm a better carpenter. I'm a better fighter, whatever. All kinds of people doing that. All kinds of people that will just be saying, I was a better whatever fighter. jujitsu player carpenter

whatever you name it yeah meanwhile taking no action software engineer I could have done that why didn't you yeah exactly right I'll tell you why because you weren't committed and the commitment that we're talking about is at night

yeah night that's potentially or early in the morning or in the middle of the day whatever you know it how you said like you're you're not doing these enormous Of commitment like either you're committed or you're not and if you're committed it's gonna show itself by your action

You know a lot of these people again back to the guy who's like hating on His neighbor doing quote unquote mediocre work like oh that's John that's not that good Hating on it you know what this just made me think of this sometimes you'd meet a guy that was say I'm going to seal training Yeah and and they'd kind of be brag about it and you could see in their eyes that that right there was good enough for them. Oh yeah, yeah. Like I'm going to seal team training.

Yeah. You know, no one calls the seal team training, but that's the kind of person because they just want to... Right, right. And you, I know, I'd hear guys saying that, yeah, I'm going to seal training.

The guys that generally have a better chance are guys that, you know, you say, oh, what are you doing in the Navy? And they say, oh, you know, I'm, you know, I'm, you know, just got done with A school and I'm starting hoping to go to seal training. You know, you have to pry it out of them.

Yeah, yeah. That guy's a better chance. The guy that's already bragging, basically indirectly bragging because he's implying that he's going to make it. Those guys are going to have a little bit more of a rough time now. This doesn't mean they're not, this doesn't mean don't be confident. Yeah. But that's what I'm saying is some people that are like, I'm going for it.

They're happy with just saying, I'm committed. I quit my job and this is what I'm going to do. They're happy to let everyone know that. Yeah. But what they're not happy to do is grind. That's what they're not happy to do. And that's where you make your money, right? Or where you make your goods or where you become successful.

Yeah, there is, who was it? It doesn't matter, but I was listening to somebody and they were talking about, like, commit. Like, people have goals. I want to be a singer or whatever. I want to be a CEO. I'm wondering, I want to be a CEO. Go ahead. You can form up an LLC today and you can become the CEO.

Exactly right. So that's part of the point right there. It's like, okay, you want to be CEO because you see all this cool stuff on wherever about being a CEO. But really what you're pursuing isn't necessarily being this. It is. But what you're pursuing, where you're going to end up and where you're going to find success of the CEO, if you're pursuing the day to day of being a CEO. It's like, I said this before. And it's on the surface, it's lame, but it's actually really accurate. But like if you want to be a gangster, you have to do gangster stuff every day. It's not just like posing with your guns. It's like you got to kind of put in that work kind of thing, you know? So if you're going to be like you can't just be Jocko and start a podcast and just in, you know, put out a book and that's it and start collecting money. It's not like that. You got to you got to go through, you know, however old you are that many years.

There's other steps involved. Yes, exactly right. This death thing. Leif and I used to joke about, you know, because when we started Aschalon Front, obviously, which is me and him, and we'd see some other guy out there

and he'd be like CEO of something. And we'd be saying, well, that guy's the CEO of, and you look at their company and the company has them. Right. The only one person or three people.

Right. Bro, you're, that's kind of weird. Yeah. Like, on the CEO. Hey, I'm the CEO of Jocko podcast. Yeah. You know what I mean? No, it's just you and me.

There's no CEO going on. Yeah we're cruising too hard yeah yeah that um yeah that deal you got to focus on the right things as opposed to the wrong thing check next question jaco I coach high school football what should I do with the star athlete who segregates himself and won't participate in hard drills or it won't participate hard in drills yeah now this one I actually thankfully remembered that I said I would do this because when I got this is a Twitter question and I responded to this Twitter question in one word so you know he says I got this guy star athlete won't participate in drills what should I do with him I responded in one word bench so so of course

you know then people start saying well you know it's and I was like yeah I know we're on Twitter right we're on Twitter there's more to it than what's happening I just answered 798 questions and this was 799 so I'm not going to go into full detail but then as people were kind of chiming and it's like okay I'll I'll answer this on the podcast so we can go into it a little bit more because yes you're a coach your leader and obviously I talk about this all the time leadership is a nuanced thing it takes balance it takes maneuvering it takes chess playing It takes mental jiu-jitsu. It takes all those things, right? So the obvious answer of just like bench. That's my meathead answer and ? Fundamentally we'll get to it, but and fundamentally that may be the result, but let's dive into it a little bit more. Who's the kid? What's his deal? What's his background? What's his attitude? Where's he coming from? What's his family like life? What's his family life like? What is?

What's his past performance? What's his record? What year is he in school? I mean there's all kinds of things we need to know right so now once we've Sort of figured out what do you like now that any one of those things any one of those variables is gonna is gonna change our course of action a little bit because Being a leader doesn't mean you get to follow cookie cutter results or quick cookie cutter solutions to things right? You're dealing with human beings and every single human being is different and every single human being has a little craziness to him that you cannot predict So we're dealing with a kid Guess what a 16 year old boy that kid is even more unpredictable and even more crazy than most right? Because he's got testosterone flowing through his system. He's chasing girls. He's he's just going crazy He's not secure with himself yet. He's got zits on his face. You know, he's got things going on He's got issues. Yeah, and so this kid's crazy and we're trying to deal with him now most kids can get you know they get through that and they're still participating with the team this kid's not

So one of the first things I always say this you got somebody that's not stepping up into leadership position or they're not wanting to You put them in charge of it. You know, you say, hey, Echo, I want you to run this drill. I think the way I'm watching you perform on the field, I think you could really lead this drill well. I want you to lead this drill and show these guys what's up. Right? Oh. So, you know what I mean?

Like, you got a little fired up face on your look just there. So that might take his attitude. And now instead of me saying, hey, Echo, you got to do this drill like everyone else. I already know that you don't want to do that. So I'm elevating you a little bit. Right. Giving your ego a little push, a little massage. And maybe you feel good about that now and I say hey, you know you can run this drill faster anyone else

I want you to lead it I want you to show them how to do it. I want you to make our team better Boom all son you're getting a little fired up so that's That's one solution type right? I'm just getting kind of a broad solution types another solution type is is And this is really easy really easy is when you're talking to someone that you want to improve their performance You don't go to them and and say hey you need to get better because you're just right now you're letting the whole team down and you're just you think you're all good you think you're so good that you don't need to coach you don't need to run drills with the team you need to run drills with the team now your attitude is

what are you talking about so instead of saying that I again I'm going to ego you up a little bit and be say hey man I'm going to talk to you I got to talk to you because I see so much potential with you with your game I see your athletic ability and I see the way that the other guys on the team look at you you might not sense it they look up to you your leader whether you want to be a leader or not and the potential that you have as an athlete is not going to come to fruition unless you at least get some of your potential as a leader in line so the reason I want you to run these drills isn't to make you better I already know you're good I know you're good at the drills the reason I want you run these drills I want you to

be even better I want you to reach your potential and by the way you help and run these drills is gonna make the team better and the better the team does the better you're gonna do the more scouts we're gonna here looking at you so there's that and obviously I'm gonna explain to him why the drills are important for him and for the team and for a man the team together for the all everyone to reach the potential so those are those are good too and I guess overall broadly what I'd be doing this whole time is talking to the person talking to the individual trying to figure out What his reasons were for not wanting to participate in the drills and then countering those reasons with logical

Answers and You know saying hey here's why it's important and explaining it to him and then eventually you're gonna get to a point where my coaching my Explaining my maneuvering my mental Jiu Jitsu none of it's worked and he's still telling me I'm not really Run the drills. I don't need to. Cool. Bench. Next question. You know what I mean? Well, you played ball. What do you think? Yeah. Because I didn't play football. Yeah, no. That's exactly right. I would I would think and I'm trying to put myself in the mindset back when I was in high school. I remember going into my senior year. So you have we had kind of summer training. So it was really like high school summer training. Two days. No, no, no. That was that was for fall. Okay. And that was like a camp situation. But summer training, which was like after spring and stuff. And what they'd call it, they'd call it technique sessions. And all it was was like, you know, I played in high school.

It was kind of like a slapback, which is a hybrid running back, wide receiver type. And so the technique sessions were just kind of passing drills and, you know, just hand stuff and maybe even some footwork. But it was kind of fun. It was just, you know, the quarterback who was there and the receivers and the running backs and catch passes, run routes and stuff. and you know for like I don't know 45 minutes hour and um so I remember going into my senior year and they're talking about yeah technique sessions this year whatever whatever and I remember I was just talking to jade my brother and I was like yeah technique sessions it's the kind of where if you don't go you don't get in big trouble or nothing it's just strongly encouraged you know that kind of

and I was like yeah I'm not going to those kind of because I was real I had done you were the man I had done well as a junior and I knew that now as a senior I'm really going to do well whatever whatever that's that was my little thought I don't need to go to those so I was like I was like yeah I'm not going into those with this kind of tone that like that's for people who were trying to try to get better me I'm already dope kind of thing you know and jade goes he goes oh yeah like super sarcastic like almost offended he was like oh yeah because you don't need that huh and he's and then he said yeah because you're just so much better than everyone actually I think he said both of those and I was like you right up bro it hit me really

hard I was like dang that he's right I was like even if, even if, like even if I really believe, which it's dumb to believe that I won't benefit from that training, even if it's like I'm just like, yeah, I'm better than you. My whole team, by the way, the team sport, we all work together to win this stuff. You guys, I'm better than all you guys. Yeah. Yeah, that's the feeling. It hit me real hard. I was like, I didn't miss any of them.

No, man, I'm committed to this. So there was that. So in that in that Mindset right going in because that's probably what it is Yeah it might be just that And it makes sense like we're in your mind If you don't get it brought to your attention Like that's really what it is

I don't need to do these drills I'm scoring touchdowns every single game Why am I doing these drills that all these non-touchdown Scoring people are doing you know Yeah Just put me in when it's time to score touch that Kind of an attitude you know That's probably what it is or making tackles

Or whatever the position is I don't know So just like how you said make him kind of in charge of it kind of like this guy I don't know let's say his name's Jim I don't know um Jim you know take these guys and show them how it's done

kind of thing in practice because practices yeah imagine if you say I'm not gonna go to this thing the coach came up and he said hey echo you know you missed two practices and you're like yeah you know and he was like hey man I need you to set the example and really show these guys how it's done

and you're not even showing up yeah even and maybe me back in those days, if you would have left out that you didn't show up part, leave that part out, that would have compelled me way more.

Like if you're like, man, you're over here as a junior, killing it and now it's about to be your senior year. You show you guys how it's done. I'll be like, hell yeah, you know,

because it was like feeding the, the ego kind of thing. And boom, I would, oh yeah, big time, take charge in Pop Warner football, which is,

you know, younger guys. In, I played for the Koloa Rams. Dang, they sound ruthless. They are. Still are, by the way. And so my coach's name is Coach Scoval.

And he had this kind of, it's kind of like a policy, kind of the thing where when you do jumping jacks, when you do drills, like, they call them grass drills. It's just like, oh, you do this stuff, you roll, you do these things. And while you do this in practice and even before the game, when you're warming up, you yell as loud as you can. That's it. You yell. Little kids just yelling, getting that stuff. for his reasons and it worked man we're we're good and um so what i would do is i would try to be the like yell as loud as i possibly can to be the loudest guy during the entire whatever you're doing

you're just yelling the entire time the drills yeah when it's your turn not not if you're standing you know you stand up in line got it and then the front three guys go yeah so the coach stands in front of three guys three lines and the guys in the front are doing the drill so he he holds the ball and you go And you just basically shuffle your feet and he goes like that. Then you turn and then you come back and he goes this way turn and then he goes down. Then you basically sprawl, you know, boom, stand back up and ah, you know, and then he goes, okay, like that. And then the three guys run now it's the next guys. Got it.

You see what I'm saying? So, and when you're running, you got to yell too. So I. That's a good cardiovascular work. Yeah. To be yelling because you can't breathe as much. What it does is gets you in the habit of just going hard, hard, every play, you know? And when you're done, you don't have to yell.

You're cruising, you're resting, getting around. And when it's go time, his go time. And habitually, that's how it was, man. It really worked. And so anyway, when I would yell as, and the coach would do this to a lot of kids, when you'd yell super loud, you know how you can just see here, that guy yelling above everybody, he would give that guy attention. He'd look at this guy.

He's getting nuts. Yeah, look at this. Look at this guy. And now the next guy, he's going to try to out yell that guy and go harder, go harder. So it's that same idea. You know, you give that guy props for working hard or showing everybody how it's done kind of thing. And it's like, man, he's going to keep that shit up.

And everyone's going to want it. In fact, Jeff did me like that this week in training. So I go in and just like, okay, after training, it's like everybody, you know. Jeff and Glover? Yeah. He, you know, you do some push-ups or what? He'll make you do some push-ups or whatever. And he's like, okay, do the triangle drill.

You know when you're on your back, you rock back, you do a triangle. You rock back again. Go to triangle the other side. So all levels are in there, beginners as well. And so I'm doing it. And he goes, oh, everybody in the middle of it goes, stop. Watch how Echo does it. And I'm like, if I didn't see what was going on here, I would feel really empowered to show everyone how.

And, you know, so he successfully pulled that off as far as the feeling in my head to a grown adult. Because you were you doing them? Yeah, I was doing it with everybody. And he paused the whole class and said, watch how he does it. You know, so it's the exact same concept. So you stepped up your game a little bit. Yeah, you know, technique, showed everybody, you know? Yeah, no, it's good, man.

That works then. And the point there is, even if you, you. you know that that's what they're doing to you, it still kind of works. Yeah. If you were the type of coach that had already had this happened before and like you just benched guy, and the coach had the reputation that you don't play around,

this wouldn't have happened in the first place? Really, would it? I agree. I think so. So you may have to set the example at some point. Yeah, the only drawback of that potentially is you could, because in high school, a lot of the times, like you can have one or two guys on the team.

even one guy in the team that'll dictate the outcome of the game where if this guy's playing You'll you'll probably win if he's not you'll probably lose and you you have those dynamics in high school So if you run that risk where I mean unless you if you're looking at a bigger picture like well I guess this is a bad example if the guy if you if you if you as a coach Run things in a certain way yeah where you have where you don't allow any slack yeah then the probability of this occurring is going to be less yeah, yeah, It can be done for sure. Like, you know, it's a funny story. Laif tells sometimes as we were doing desert training

and long story short, there's an opportunity to have guys take a break and go to town and have some beer and get a good meal before the field training exercises start. And that's normal what everyone does. But we didn't do that. We didn't take a break, didn't go get food,

didn't go get beers and nothing. We just got after it more. And I didn't really think much of it, but Laif was like, yeah, Of course we wanted to go, but no one wanted to ask you. Yeah. Because it was just like, yeah, no slack. We're not, obviously.

We're out here to train and get something. We're not here to, you know, go into town and drink a beer. No. And it's kind of funny looking back. But I think that you can establish yourself as a type of leader that's just not going to allow, like, what are you talking about? You don't want to do the drills? Oh, but it starts with the little things. Like, who knows what this kid, you know, maybe he didn't want to put on his practice jersey and he wanted to wear this?

You know what I mean? Just like little things. Little things build up and eventually he's seen it just like a normal kid just like a five-year-old that pushes the envelope with everything Oh yeah oh maybe I can't get away of that well can I get away with can't get away with Mm-hmm people like to push the envelope Throughout my life man yeah no slack now yeah, but you can go too far with no slack of course Yeah, and you now now everyone hates you as a coach yeah because you just don't understand you don't listen and you're a jerk Yeah, you've you've gone too far in one direction or you've gone too far in the other direction

balanced dichotomy of leadership gets some yeah next question jaco have you ever had a person you couldn't get through to something that you couldn't manipulate then what what do you do when you can't get through well yeah of course um i've had people that i could not get through to and generally speaking these people are like level 12 arrogance that's they are giant ego that's what causes this there was quite a few seal leaders that I dealt with I shouldn't say quite a few there were several seal leaders that I dealt with that were like that and of several business leaders that I've dealt with that I were like that in podcast number five I read that counseling letter

Corrective measures to a guy that was really arrogant and Despite that letter he did not change and he got fired So what do you do when you got someone that you can't get through to you you fire them? I That's what if they're if and here's what you got to do is what what makes that tricky is that some people And this may this this this make people freak out There's some people that there's such good performers that even though they're slightly negative on maybe their team Participation but they're so good that that that offsets their negativity right and that happens it happens you know what happens with sales people? Sales people are are are

In order to be in a sales position, you've got to be confident, you got to be aggressive. You've got to be somewhat arrogant, right? You've got to believe in yourself. And so some salespeople take that to the extreme where they're just like, I don't need to listen to what you're telling me the new procedures are. Screw that. I'm the one that's doing the big dollars over here. How about you follow my procedures, boys? Right? So that happens. Well, then what you got to do is you got to look. Is this guy producing so well? Now, that can create problems within the team. And you have to balance those things. Is this guy? Is the negativity he is creating Offset by the awesome productivity that he's doing? And furthermore if the guy's that good Hey, maybe we should be modeling some things after them. I got no problem with that if you're the best performer Cool. I want to imitate you. I want to get my people to imitate you so that happens the other place where you might see it a similar situation is a leader that does really good with their relationships down the chain of command for instance but really has bad relations up the chain of command. So again, you got to ask yourself,

okay, if I fire this leader, how many of these people that he has great relationships are now going to leave and what kind of detriment is that to the team? That can also happen with someone that treats their people like crap, but up the chain of command, everyone thinks he's great. And he's getting the mission done, by the way, right? He's a slave driver, and he's creating total animosity between him and his team,

but he's accomplishing the mission. So now what do you do? There's risk. Everyone could quit. There's risk you could fire them and now you don't accomplish the mission anymore. This is why leadership is hard and this is why you have to balance everything. You have to balance those things. But talked about it a bunch of times.

If you get someone, you coach them, you mentor them, you do everything you can, you flank them, you do jiu-jitsu, mental jiu-jitsu on them. You try and get them squared away and eventually if you can't, you weigh against, you know, how it's going to affect the situation. And then in many cases, you got to let them go. And we fired, you know, we fired, I saw plenty of seals get fired from leadership positions. And same thing with, you know, obviously we work with consulting businesses. We see all kinds of people getting fired because they're either not capable of doing their job. They're too arrogant.

And they don't recognize that things are going sideways and they're just thinking that they're doing everything perfect. No, that's not going to work out well for you. Yeah. What did, I think it was Laif. He said, someone asked him, you know, when do you know, when's that line where it's like when it's time to fire someone? And he was like, in a nutshell, there's a lot to it, but in a nutshell, which I thought was dope. He said, it's, you know you're at that point where you fire someone when, when you don't feel bad about it. Right, right.

So it's like, yeah, you tried everything. And there's also people, which there's some validity. to this that say the first time you think you should fire someone you should fire them that's the other end of the spectrum right and what that means is when you're looking at someone and you're going man okay i can save them i can help them that's the kind of advice you give to someone that's that's a that's got a maternal instinct right that you meet someone hey i know this guy's just a good guy and everyone on my team is great and everyone's going to do a great job you can't tell that person what laf and i normally tell people which is when you feel good about it you should fire him because that person will

never feel good about firing anybody just about okay see what I'm saying because he just I did this guy I know he's gonna bake it he's no he's gonna come around you know I and then they then they start playing the the extreme ownership game yeah which is you know if I would have given an echo a better direction he would have been able to do this it's my fault yeah I've given an echo 17 reiterations of this and he still didn't complete it correctly he's fired that's the way it works right there's yeah so that's a balance so that spectrum of of you know being within the confines of being justified firing somebody a certain type of person

you got to say when you don't feel bad about it right right that's like a fire heavy type dude right but there's also someone the reason you shouldn't feel bad about it is because I've done everything I can do to help you yeah which takes work it takes effort it takes tact it takes hard conversations because it's hard for me to go and say echo you know I've been I've been looking at your videos lately and they're they're not really what we're looking for right I don't want to say that to you you know it's uncomfortable and we're kind of like you know we we want to get along so instead I'm like yeah I go that that video is good man yeah it's good but I'm not telling you the truth and then over time our videos aren't looking good enough and eventually I say you know what you know no one's

buying our videos anymore and we haven't gotten any new contracts so guess what I'm going to have to let you go and you're like what he's talking about what he's talking about you said all the videos I made were good now you're firing me maybe you need to be become a better salesperson yeah yeah whereas if I had the hard conversation early and said hey echo you know I know you're creative and I appreciate that but we also need to get the message across for our clients I'm obviously fabricating a business where we're making videos for clients for clients yeah which I know we don't really do a lot of anymore occasionally you do but uh but yeah you got to you got to um to have the hard conversations earlier if I'm the type of person

that doesn't like to have the hard conversations once again I never feel good about it because I never I never gave you any advice so it always feels bad for me to fire someone yeah but if you're following good leadership tactics then absolutely true when you get to a point where you got to fire somebody you won't feel bad about it because you know you've done everything you can you know you've coach them mentioned them and you know that if you keep them on board you are negatively impacting your team yeah which is bad yeah and then Go down to the other side of the spectrum still within the confines of being justified in firing somebody by the way But on the other side of the spectrum you get how you say the what do you call the maternal instinct type?

The person who can like they're just super hard on themselves maybe or they're you know like Even if you did do everything you can you still like I could have done more You know so it's my fault not is I feel like I let them down as a leader Yeah, you gave them 17 counseling chits. Yeah You know they don't belong here. They can't do their job stop. Yeah, I mean while they're going home last at you or whatever yeah yeah you get that kind of personality so it's kind of like how you say you got to balance it you got to be like okay you got to recognize okay what kind of person am I you know or what kind of person is this other person kind of

thing and if they're those maternal instinctual for lack of a better way of putting a person then what was it the first time you feel like you should fire him you should fire them you you hang out on that side of the spectrum you got it yeah how do you regain respect from your employees after you've come across as too nice. My husband and I are business owners with 45 employees in a small software firm. Since adding more employees in the last 18 months, the culture is changing. I blame our easygoing attitude.

Increasingly, there is an attitude problem where negative pushback has become almost a daily occurrence. How do we lead our way out of this? Okay, well, this is a rough one. Not by no means. I shouldn't even said it's a rough one. It's a challenge, right? You have to hit the reset button for sure and you got to let people know that things are changing now I would straight up have a meeting that you you sit everyone down and say hey here's what's happening. We are growing and as we grow we are going to have to evolve just like a person as you get older you have to evolve. You have to evolve. I You have to become more mature and here's some of the things that we're gonna have to tighten up Right is

Instead of you know everyone's just hey if you come in and you want to go you got you know it's your kids birthday Oh yeah no problem death you say look that's not happening anymore We will do our best To let you out for your daughter's birthday. We will do our best To let you go take care of family members when they're sick. We will do our best we will do our best to give you bonuses that you've become accustomed to we will do our best to give you raises annually we will do our best to continue to take care of you but none of those things are guaranteed at all we are trying to be profitable in fact we have

to be profitable in order to continue as a business on top of being profitable in order to grow we have to reinvest in the company we have to to take the money that we make and we have to put it back into this company in order to grow. And we are going to grow. That is our goal. And in order to grow, we are going to have to put procedures and standards in place. Now that will allow us to maintain some control and efficiency as we grow. If we don't do that, we're going to fall apart.

So that is what we need to do. Now, why do we want to grow? The reason we want to grow is because we want to be bigger. We want to create more opportunity for everyone sitting in this room. We're not trying to grow for us. We're trying to grow for everyone. The more opportunity everyone has to advance in leadership to make more money. That is what we are trying to do.

But we can only do that if we, as we grow, we evolve and become better and become more efficient and become more standardized in the next 18 to 24 months. that is what we have to do as a company. So I would have a meeting and say something like that, something along those lines. Lay down the law a little bit. Now, also then you have to change your attitude. You have to somewhat change your attitude

because you are Mr. Nice Guy. That's how you ended up in this position. You know, the husband and wife team, Mr. Mr. and Mrs. Nice guy. And you can and should be nice as a leader. I understand that. But at this point, the team needs to get tightened up. And so you're gonna have to impose some discipline on them in order for there to be freedom in the future

Surprisingly, right? But we know that now I had a friend who was a platoon commander And he was he worked with me and I knew him and when he was a platoon commander He was a real nice guy super nice guy When he was a platoon commander he was a nice guy super nice guy Things didn't work out good for him because I don't know that I don't I don't I don't specifically know what happened but I know that things didn't go great and when he talked to me about it because the thing is when I worked with him we were all bros and I was a young enlisted guy but we know we were all bros but we all had that level

of respect hey you know what we can go out and have a beer tonight but tomorrow morning we get to work I'm I'm I'm in the game and I'm you know I'm I'm I'm telling the line and that's pretty much what we were all like all of us enlisted guys working with this guy and when he got to this new place new command all of a sudden wasn't like that anymore and he was broing out with people and when you get back into work They they wanted to bro out at work and it was like well we don't need to listen to you We were having beers with you last night and that's what he told me he said you know I I was too

Nice of a guy and I didn't get the respect that I needed to be able to effectively run the platoon And it was not good and he said something to me too which I guess I instinctively knew or maybe I didn't, but it stuck with me. You know, it's real easy to give more slack to someone when you have them on a tight leash, right? It's real easy. Yeah, yeah.

It's hard to do the other thing. It's hard to, well, listen to this. When I have you on a tight leash and I give you a little bit of slack, you're happy. You're like, oh, look at Chaco, he trusts me. He's letting me go a little bit. When I give you all kinds of slack and all of a sudden I have to tighten it up, I start pulling on the leash.

Well, guess what? It chokes your neck. Yeah, yeah. It chokes you. I don't like that. And the further I got to pull you back on in, the longer you're choking for. Yeah. And so by the time you get back to me, you're ready to bite.

Yeah. And so that's what you have to do. You don't walk in and put the dogs out and let them run wild to the end of the leash and let them run wherever they want. And then try and pull them back in. Because when you let him go, by the way, you're thinking yourself, well, you know, this is a good dog. So when I let him run around, he's not going to do anything wrong. He's going to be a perfect saint. When there's a chance that's going to happen

And there's a chance that's a good dog And you let him run around and when you say come back he comes back to you There's also a chance that he's not a good dog And when he gets out there he starts running and start biting people Or running in the road or doing whatever bad dogs do And so what are you gonna have to do that dog is you got to pull them back to you And it's actually worse Because we already know this is a bad dog

So now when you pull him back he's pissed and he's gonna bite you Whereas a good dog wasn't doing anything bad in the first place And when you pull him back in, he looks at you and goes, hey, I must have gone too out of control. I'm sorry. I'm back in line now. You see what I'm saying? There's a, the way the whole thing unfolds is bad because the bad dog, he's a bad dog. And he's doing bad stuff when you give him slack on the leash.

And when you pull him back, he's going to snap at you. The good dog, you give him all kinds of room on the leash. He's not doing anything good. And when you pull him back, he goes, he goes, oh, sorry. I didn't realize I was doing something out of line. Master. Sure. I'll keep it in check now and you can give me more slack if you want or not doesn't matter

I want to I want you to trust me meanwhile the bad dog he's just like growling yeah he's pissed So that's gonna be a hard one um like I said it's not impossible but the big thing you got to do I think in this situation you got to be clear Here's what's going on you could even potentially I don't know how well you are of a speaker interacting with people You could even say something along the lines of you know hey look we've been running this real loose and I've been real you know we've been doing everything we could to to run this as loose as possible but we got to tighten it up I think that's I think you could say that because you don't want to say look I've been being nice and I can't be nice anymore that that comes across

wrong but to say look we've been running it real loose here and we've been trying to give you guys as much freedom as we can and we still want you guys to have freedom but we got to put some parameters in place that are going to that are going to allow us to run this business efficiently as we grow and as we scale. You can quote me on that one, by the way. Yeah, it makes sense when you say, be clear and consistent, you know, like how some people, they'll implement rules

and I'm speaking from an employee standpoint where I'm looking at the boss when they're trying to put in new rules to tighten it up, so to speak, because in the nightclub industry, that tends to happen. You know, managers browing out. I like to turn bro out, by the way.

You never heard that have you never heard that before? I don't think so not that I can remember but that's interesting I thought that was pretty common vernacular especially amongst a bro like yourself Bro out yeah broing out with them Yeah, and the nightclub managers tend to bro out with people or You know bro out with girls or whatever the waitresses whatever whatever I don't know if you can bro out with girls. Yeah, I know that's why I got it got it didn't you probably a different word for it Yeah, group of words whatever But nonetheless that tends to happen

So you know sometimes same situation You know you get nightclub in disarray as a business You know then they got to tighten it up and apply more rules and now you got to you know Whatever with the clock ins it's like just little rules that yeah And I negative attitude no all these rules all these damn rules yeah I'm a late person so the whole clock in thing anyway long story but um so Anti-Echo scenario. So when the manager would implement the rules, but they don't follow the rules, you know, it's, man, they just won't take.

And people get more mad. But when you see, there is this, man, and he died to, unfortunately, Joel. He was, he was, he was our boss for, for a while. And he had to kind of do that, like, implement new rules. But this was a guy, he would bro out with you, but, like, it was weird. He did this weird kind of balance where he would break some rules, but then he'd follow rules. But the rules that he broke, he wouldn't care if you broke them kind of thing. These are all small, teeny tiny rules, by the way.

But he was a real consistent person, you know, where if he wanted something done, we were all doing it, including him, you know. And I remember thinking, man, I really like this guy in that way as well, where he's telling us to do stuff, but he won't like. Because there's other managers, oh, man, I can go into it, man. where there's other managers and they were straight up like I'm the manager here at this nightclub and everyone worships me

and it's a weird dynamic in nightclubs anyway and they wouldn't follow the rules at all you know but you had to because you're the employee you know kind of thing but yeah when you're a manager and again from employee standpoint and I see my boss

following the new rules consistently it's so much easier to sign on it's kind of okay that's what we're doing I dig it and yeah if you combine it with like what you said being clear

Oh, I'm down. I'm down for the change. I get it, man. I get it. Yeah. Next question. Jocco, no bad teams, only bad leaders, and always the same relationship with each boss.

Yet you also staged a mutiny. How do you reconcile that? Okay, so what he's talking about? Obviously, no bad teams, no bad leaders is from extreme ownership. And it's actually from before that. Napoleon said the same thing. Hackworth said the same thing. We changed the word.

a little bit but so that's and then the other thing he's talking about is that I always say I have the same relationship with every boss I've ever had whether they were stupid or smart or whether they were aggressive or passive whether they were big ego or humble I always had the same relationship with all of them that is they trust me and they gave me what I need to do to do my job so how do I reconcile then then he's talking about staged a mutiny because we had a kind of a mutiny in one of my platoons broken a day uh... when I was a young enlisted guy. And so how can you do that, right?

If I had all these great relationships with all my bosses, but I staged a mutiny. Interestingly, I actually had a decent relationship with a guy that I staged a mutiny with now that I think about it. So to go back to the earlier question, I'm talking about being a renegade and, you know, being a rebel.

And like I said, you have to rebel when it is necessary. So, and also for the mutiny that is in question, I need to make it clear here I didn't stage the mutiny it wasn't me It was kind of a group effort That was somewhat led by the leadership of our The enlisted leadership of our platoon And it was a movement that I certainly supported

And was on board with and we were kind of the E5 mafia in that platoon Yeah so we were kind of had the voice of the people right Me in a certain group of guys actually from my buds class Who were all kind of Yeah, kind of just fired up about things And, you know, I It wasn't like the thing is it wasn't like the platoon commander had a couple weaknesses, right? And maybe he wasn't the best of tactics or maybe it wasn't that you know, he wasn't the best shot or anything like wasn't the best athlete

No, he was a good athlete He Tactically he was like marginal Um, But what he didn't have talk about this all time what he didn't have is he didn't have any humility at all And so he wasn't listening to anyone that was giving him any input, including he had very experienced senior enlisted advisors. So the platoon chief and the platoon LPO were awesome guys, very respected seals. One of them had been in the first Gulf War on the ground getting after it as much as he could.

So these guys were experienced. And the senior chief was a really, really smart guy. and this guy wasn't listening to him. And so you had somebody that in the situation was it would have been bad for the platoon to have this type of leader in there. And now think about this. If it's bad for the platoon, then it's bad for your mission.

If you don't have a good platoon, you can't execute your mission well. And that's the bottom line to this question. That is how I reconcile this. how does this situation affect the mission, affect our ability to accomplish the mission? How does it do it? If we have a bad leader and it makes us a bad platoon,

then we're not going to be able to accomplish our mission. And therefore, I need to help get rid of this person because my number one thing that I'm trying to do is be good at my mission. And obviously a more unified team is going to accomplish the mission more. Effectively and more efficiently period. So that that is why it is so important for people to understand the mission and the goal and the commander's intent because all of your decisions are based on and guided by that understanding of understanding what the mission is. So you need to put the mission first all the time to make the right decision. Now as soon as I say that, What pops in your head?

Oh, Jocco, you care about the mission more than you care about your men. Not true. Because think about this. If you are executing your mission effectively, you are taking care of your men. That's in the business world,

and it's in the battlefield. Because in the business world, if I'm executing my mission effectively, guess what we're doing? We're making more money. We're being more profitable. We're gaining more clients. We're growing.

And therefore, I'm taking care of my employees because I'm keeping them employed and making them more bonuses and making them more money and offering them more leadership opportunities in Combat same thing if we are good and I execute my mission effectively guess what we've mitigated risk The the best possible way the more we mitigate risk the more people are alive the less casualties we take So if I'm doing everything geared towards the mission then then I am taking care of my men because by the way If I'm running a mission with heavy casualties what about my next mission? Right so if you're my boss and you tell me to charge this machine gun nest with my guys and I say boss You know we we shouldn't do that right now you do you carry out the mission. Okay. Well who's gonna do the next mission?

Right there's not unlimited guys here so you can can't do it you can't run a mission after you've taken heavy casualties just like you can't if you as a business person if you expend all of your capital on one project well guess what you can't do the next project so good job you accomplish the one mission but you can't accomplish anymore on the battlefield if you incur a bunch of casualties for one mission you can't accomplish anymore so in both those cases the more effectively you you handle the mission not just the one But your broad mission your strategic mission the better you do that the better you are taking care of your men and The better you're taking care of your people in the business world

So and on top of that On top of that 99% of the time Your mission is aligned with the best thing for your people. That's what I'm saying 99% of the time if we make more money as a company it helps all my people if we if we accomplish missions and In the most effective and efficient and take the least casualties that's the best thing for my people So back to the question How do I reconcile these things? I look at how I can best accomplish the mission and if it best

Accomplice the mission to rebel against what's happening there's some cases where I might that you might be my boss and I might not like you But you've got a great relationship with the army commander and we're working in their battle space Would it make sense for me to to throw a mute? And get you fired? No, it'd make no sense whatsoever. It's gonna be better for our mission if I say echo sucks But I'm gonna listen to him and we're gonna massage this thing or make things work because he has such a good relationship with this army commander That he's making things happen So I might not do it I might not stage a mit of mutiny not based on the fact that you that your level of sucking But based on the fact that what's more important to me is that we accomplish our mission

And if you have a good relationship with the army commander I'm gonna keep you around if you were if you were in a business situation and you had you were not doing a good job and you're one of my subordinates you're not doing a good job but you have this great relationships with all these clients and we're accomplishing our mission well because you built these great relationships am I just gonna fire you because I think you're doing it fix I think you're a crappy leader of your men no actually I'm not what is best for the mission now I might have third secondary and

Tertiary plans to move you into position where you don't have to handle the operational things that you suck at and I might put you in a position where you're just gonna become You know a business dev a biz dev guy where you're out there meeting greet with people because that's what you're good at I might make that happen But I'm not just gonna go echo as a bad leader fire him throw away the the skill that you do have and now we're not accomplishing our mission Because I ruined all the relationships because now you go to all these all these other partners that we have and you're gonna yeah jocco fired me He's pathetic. He doesn't realize what What we're doing here. I'm going over to this company. Come with me. Bring your business over here with me So you reconcile it by looking at the mission and the mission is almost always

Aligned with taking care of your people and taking care your people in the sense of Imposing discipline or not imposing discipline is being disciplined and making them work and Giving them training them hard pushing them that is generally what taking care your people is taking care of your people is taking care of your people isn't hey you know what echo oh you know uh don't worry about that video that you know to the client i know you i know it's your daughter's birthday you go ahead and go home for the day am i taking care of you if i do that no i'm i taking care of you no i'm not i'm actually hurting you because now we got a bad reputation we delivered the video late the company passes word to the next company it says hey you know those guys are their video is okay but it doesn't

matter because it was late now that's the reputation we have now fast forward six months we're downsizing I don't need you anymore I'm gonna make the you know I don't need four video makers I only need one and you're not the one you know you're not saying so I'm not taking care of my people if I focus on the mission which is hey echo I apologize I know it your daughter's birthday but guess what we owe this video we got to get it done and you got to get in here and make it happen am I taking care of you then yes I am I know it doesn't feel that way but yes I am yeah yeah I didn't making sure they're equipped capable and

Treated fairly yeah Yeah, I said impose discipline on them yeah and like that doesn't work Yeah, but what you have to do is you have to impose this point Yeah make sure there's that guy is in place. There's the dichotomy. Yeah, because you don't want to say echo you will come in and make this video right I'm imposing this on you I'd be like echo we owe this video we said we're gonna turn it Let me tell you the ramifications if we don't do this. Here's what's going to hurt. It's going to hurt this, this, this, this, and this.

It's going to eventually could end up with you not having a job and me not having a business. Yeah. Do you like the sounds of that? No, you don't. No. You might be the wrong guy to ask about this. Maybe you're not. I don't know.

But what do you think? So you mentioned missing your, my daughter's birthday. I didn't miss my daughter's birthday, by the way. Did you say you did or did not? Did not. But my son just had a first birthday. I did miss that, but it's his first birthdays. So I've always thought this is before I had any kids with any birthdays, that the first birthday, that's for the parents.

It's not for the kid. You know, he doesn't remember the first, his first birthday, he never will. I'm definitely going to be the wrong person. But keep going. So missing birthdays, is that like a bell curve? Like, okay, one, first birthday, age one, you can sort of miss that. Age zero, you can't really miss that. Meaning when they're born

Go go go talk to the military people I know I know yeah No you're right and I'm saying if you have the options and you know we're speaking in terms of Okay if you have the option sure go to the no no well I mean you sort of have like in terms of you know We're at this company you're my boss on the video maker hey echo you know we gotta get this video done whatever I don't know that may be even in an extreme case I'm saying in a general sense Mm-hmm which birthdays are more expensive That's ultimately the question and it doesn't necessarily mean in this

Yeah, I'm gonna tell you right now as a guy that was in the military for 20 years The birthday if you're there it's a luxury if you're there for Christmas it's a luxury Yeah, you're there for Thanksgiving. It's a luxury I missed all kinds of that stuff all over the place just like a big joke You big you know you're just not gonna be there okay so now Mm-hmm we're not in the military Uh-huh no just and it's less about missing them or not missing them okay So at the end of the day, no matter what birthday, even right now, you're thinking if you miss them, no huge deal. No.

I mean, and if I actually thought it was a huge deal, I would have to choose an entirely different lifestyle and life. Right. Right. And I'll tell you what, my kids know. Yeah, yeah. And they've always known. Well, okay. So guess what?

Someone's out there getting after. He's named my dad. Yeah, no, no, no. Okay. He missed another birthday. They don't care. I get you yet. No, you're, I dig it.

And but that's kind of in a way. I mean, not to be too specific in split hairs, but I'm going to do it anyway. I mean, not even necessarily you and your specific situation. Which are the most important births? Exactly right. On the spectrum of valued birthdays. Five through 11. Five through 11 are have the most weight.

Most weight. Okay. So not zero. Not when they're born. No. So if you, if you miss the birth of your child. child because you had to work and I'm not saying military I'm saying because you were trying to finish some report or something yeah or whatever or so yeah don't do that yeah try and be there

okay so but comparatively speaking the the birth of your child compared to the fifth birthday you say fifth birthday is more important yeah because they don't remember anything from zero to four right that's just a big blue dang that's a good point and it's just a big buzz like nothing happening yeah I don't know yeah Like all those parents that you take your kids, and I did this too. Actually, I didn't, I did it with my first kids. My wife was like, we're gonna go to take the girls to Disneyland.

Yeah. And I'd say, oh, okay. Walk around at Disneyland, which is pretty close to a living hell to me, actually. Yeah, I agree. Standing in lines in the Anaheim summertime, like just baking. And yet, you know, here's the deal.

The girls are just so excited the whole time and so happy. Me? No. So now I haven't been to any of those things in a long time Actually I went with a business group and walked around where Disney land Disney world and I was like you've got to be kidding kill me now But this is the thing the kids don't remember it you can show them pictures and they go oh that's cool you could stage those pictures Like a moon landing like just set them up and you're like oh yeah

There's Cinderella whatever you're saying before five yeah five years old okay I can Men, that's a good point because when I say now I'm sure there's developmental things happening when they're when you do things when you participate in activities with your kids obviously yeah, but they're not zero and five. Yeah, but you know you could you could probably it'd probably be more developmentally helpful for you to spend a day with them, you know, coaching them and in Jiu Jitsu or coaching them in boxing or coaching them in Moy Thai or coaching them in shooting or coaching them in archery or coaching them in hunting small animals and or coaching them in how to do combat trauma care. Just like general things. Yeah, four year old. Yeah, you're right, you're right. Yeah, that's not even part of the way.

Go to Disneyland, look at, yeah, that's not the question. The question is like the birthday thing. So, so yeah, only because you mentioned. Because by 11, they don't care anymore. By 11, they don't care. Oh, okay. So that's why the cutoff is. Well, my kids were all like, oh, my birthday don't care.

Yeah, so, man, that's a good point. We have a rule. You get to pick to where you go out for dinner on your birthday night. And in the last like five birthdays, we haven't even been able to pull that out successfully. Yeah. So obviously it's going to be what the group is used to. But as far as the kid,

did you missing the birthday for, you know, for the kids' sake? When I was a kid, you know what I used to pick? Because that used to be in my family too. We get to like pick dinner. You know what I used to pick? Yeah. Chicken patties. Dang.

Chicken patties. From where? Oh, just from the store. Just get some chicken patties. I used to love those things. Dang, yeah. I remember in school, I went to Koloa Elementary School. I used to love the chicken patties there.

Yeah. They're dope. The chicken patties are you some like chicken McNugget like a big flat chicken McNugget Yeah and I didn't even like I didn't like steak until I was in the days Because because we didn't have a lot of steak grown up because steak is expensive Yeah yeah yeah, you know what I mean yeah especially that ribby yeah especially that rib eye so we didn't have steak we had Tasted good to me pretty dope and sometimes you know what else of course you want McDonald's when you're seven sure Yeah once go gets some fries and a shamrock shaky

We try I had I had told Because, you know, I love mint chocolate chip, right? So I had told all my kids about the original mint chocolate chip milkshake was the shamrock shake at McDonald's back in the day. Oh, yeah, yeah. Which they'd have around St. Paddy's Day, which, by the way, isn't around my birthday, but it just came to my mind. Yeah, yeah. So when I was a kid, we had shamrock shakes. St. Patty's Day, they're mint shakes.

And when I was a kid, they were amazing. And I was so and I hadn't had one in 30 years maybe more maybe 40 years Hadn't had a shamrock shake and I saw a little advertisement. I said oh kids Guess what these are like mint chocolate chip milkshakes, but there's no chocolate chip So it's just smooth mint ice cream milkshake from McDonald? Yep and I sent my daughter out to go get us all go get us all Shamrock shakes brought them home they were disgusting They were nothing like what

what they used to be. So McDonald's, I gave you a shot. Sorry, Ben. Yeah. I'm surprised he gave him a shot. I am too, but it's been 40-something years since I had a shamrock shake, and I remembered them, so I figured we'll go with it. They were disgusting.

Yeah, they were probably going for... Not even my kids liked them. Not even my eight-year-old who just, you know, is an eight-year-old that just looks at things and say, that's ice cream, I want it. She didn't even like it. No, no one. They were disgusted. We threw them all away.

Dang. So don't waste your money. Yeah, don't waste your money. Yeah, don't waste your money on McDonald's. That's my personal recommendation Yeah, period shamrock shake or otherwise. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not helping you in any way Did you know that they just I mean, it's gonna sound obvious now that I'm saying it out loud They add the green coloring to it mm-to the ice cream to make it green well yeah Yeah, so when you get briars it's white. Yeah, I got it's been chocolate I mean my wife and whatever family the family goes to or the Oregon coast that's where the

Tillamook cheese factory is wait cheese yeah yeah tillamook cheese the real the actual big factory and you can go on little tours and they give you ice cream like okay I want that mint chip of course and they give it to me and they hand it to me I'm like the first time I see it I was like hey that's not mine that's obviously just the regular chocolate chip yeah yeah don't want it over here and I for real said that I was like oh I ordered the mint and he goes oh I Yeah, that's mint and then it all kind of came to me like oh yeah, I'm pretty dumb for if you get briars Briars is white. Yeah, yeah. Which is the preferred brand to be quite honest with you. No, is it okay. All right. Well, at least the sugar at that I've tried at least the ones that I've tried. Yeah. So, so back to the birthday thing. If you

miss the birth of your child technically you're right technically for the question because I'm talking about like how upset or how much is it. The kid's not affected at all. At all, really. But here's the thing. It, like, as a cohesive family, that might be a thing. If you have the option, I'm saying. If you're overseas, come on, man, let's face it. That's a legit, you know.

But if you have the choice. So you miss the birth of your child. That's more of like a family thing. Like, okay. But that's not what, that's not the question. Because so is the first birthday, the first year birthday. That's kind of, it's for the adults. Yep.

It's for the other people. So is the first, second, third, fourth, and fifth. Oh, not the fourth. By the fifth, maybe they're in the game a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, depending on the kid. What you should do is condition them that they don't expect anything good. Yeah, I guess.

You know, yeah, life sucks, man. Life sucks. Nothing special about your stupid birthday. There's a bunch of people born that day, a bunch of people born tomorrow, a bunch of people born yesterday. Get over yourself, kid. Concur. Four years old. I know a bunch of people who turn four.

Anyway. Agree. I think that age. two all the way to 21 that's my opinion those are ones that if they want you there you I don't think that I don't think your dog is gonna watch around at her 21st birthday she better down in Cabo she's not a lot in Cobbo you know check anyway yeah Jocko what do you think about when you don't feel like getting after it you know I put this out the other day and I think it's important all right so

Rome wasn't built in a day we all know that everyone's here's that but Rome also didn't fall apart overnight either it took hundreds of years for Rome to reach its peak but it also took time hundreds of years for Rome to decay and fall apart and that is representative of life because you don't achieve worthwhile goals quickly or easily they take time they take struggle they take relentless pursuit day in and day out that's what it takes but also things don't usually fall apart quickly either at least at first it's it's a slow process a little slip here a little setback over there a little wearing down of Discipline and will over time. That's the thing. Success and failure are generally

slow processes either slowly building things up or gradually Taring them down that's why I say you've got to pay attention watch you have to watch every single second because those seconds they turn into minutes and minutes and minutes turn into hours and hours turn into days and days turn in to years and so that second that second that just went by and so did that one and in those precious seconds you were either building or you were decaying you were either gaining ground or you were losing ground in that second Second so make love got for tonight. So echo if people want to make it count for this podcast. Maybe you could tell them how they can go ahead and do that if they want to.

Sure. Be happy to actually we're talking about origin. Why did Pete choose origin? as the name. He told the story, right? Must be slacking on the listening on that one. Nonetheless, it makes sense because the origin of all these, all the gear is here in the U.S. It just happens to be, but that's a big thing.

The origin. So, what do we make geese out of? Say cotton. You know, okay, we'll just take the cotton, grow the cotton in the U.S. What do they do with the cotton? Turn it into yarn. They do stuff.

Diet. Yeah. Turn it into a fabric. Yeah. Various forms. Yeah. And they do all of that. They don't import it, you know, from wherever.

You know, some undisclosed. American hands. Yeah. Anyway, so maybe that's why it's called origin because the origin is a significant thing. Right? Anyway. All right.

Cool. So origin, what is origin? Origin is the best gear in the world. Straight up objectively. Not subjectively. objectively I got proof boom so I got a ghee we went to this origin immersion camp for Jiu Jiu Jitsu Jiu Jitsu immersion camp no good fun by the way that was your first time in the origin gee wasn't it yes at the camp yeah yeah I saw you with yours it was cool um yeah so

cool camp got the ghee um then I come home got two by the way actually I got two key tops one pair of pants um come home made me want to train more in the ghee by the way i thought i don't know if it was the ghee or the camp or both probably probably both yeah anyway so this whole week i train ghee and every single time i went in someone mentioned the ghee and it's not like it's pink or something like that when they're like hey see i go put on his ghee yeah it's normal you can get the blue i had the i have the white one and everyone it's like oh what's that jeff Glover was one of them and this is a person who's like, you know, if he says it, it's something. It's not like some, you know, fashion person who's, I don't like that logo or that's a cool, you know, anyway, it was someone who knows.

Anyway, everyone asking, like, what up with this geese? Like, going to the spiel made here. I might have lost somebody because it took real long saying it, but nonetheless, it's dope. And then another one was Jeff Higgs. We know who that is. Higgsy. Do you know who that is? I sure do.

Yeah, yeah. The person that Jokha talks about when he first started to get introduced to Jiu Jitsu, the guy who... Reintroduced to Jiu Jitsu. He and I got introduced to Jiu Jitsu together. Then he went out and trained hard. Yeah. I think it was the day he got his purple belt. His purple, I was the little white dog.

I mean, we trained with Master Chief Bailey overseas for like three months. And then we came back. We were in different platoons, but he started training for real with Fabio Santos. Yeah, and the day he got his purple belt, I'm pretty sure it was the day he got his purple belt, he came to my house and was like, let's go train. And I said, oh, yeah, I'm cool.

So think about purple belt versus a white belt. He annihilated me. And he, you know, triangle, arm lock, you know, everything. Rear naked joke. And he's kind of tall, too. Yeah, he's tall, strong. Putting beat down. Boney.

Boney? Like, in terms of when he's impacting you with his elbows, real bony. He's hitting you. Yeah, he's got the bones. Yeah. Cutting. Yeah, he's like...

I guess triangle feels like it's going to cut your head off. Because he's bony. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He knows some good judo, too, huh? Yeah. Yeah. And he's got a real...

He's got a real... He's always in touch with the whole idea of using this to effectively defend yourself in a street scenario. He's always in touch with that. Yeah. He always adds in a little... And if you're in the street, you could do this right here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He did that. I went up to Studio 540. Yeah. For various, I had to train at 10 a.m. I had some stuff I had to do. And then they were only doing no gie at the V. So studio 540. Higgs is teaching the class.

Rob Zeps, he's the owner or whatever. Even he mentioned the ghee. He was like, he's like, what geese is this? Yeah. Well, it's because it's a different material, especially, not only specially made, especially woven, specially designed. for Jiu-Jitsu yeah and I was like oh yeah that's that origin stuff don't worry about that

He's like oh he's like I think I might have one of you know he's the kind of with like yeah one thousand yeah I think I have one of these or whatever and I was like you don't have this one bro and I just kept walking You know anyway then afterwards it was afterwards when Higgs was like he's like this is but I think he even said this is the most interesting Ghee and he was like rubbing it in his fingers you know when he grabbed my sleeve this is the most interesting gear ever seen something like that you know went into my that's the axiom Yeah, yeah, yeah. With the gorilla weave. Yeah.

Because they have a normal pearl weave, which looks like little tiny pearls, right? Yeah. American pearl. But the axiom, that gorilla weave is, is, or is it the dragon weave? They both look very similar. Yeah. But they're both cool. Yeah, one of them looks like, like it's like, I'm not going to say velvet.

I'm not going to do that, but it looks like that, you know. No, it looks like diamonds. Which one was the one, I remember? We were looking at them. And they were saying like, I was like, dang, this looks super luxurious. That's not the one I have, by the way. It was like this other one. I don't know which one was which, but nonetheless, people seem to like the geek.

And the pancer dope, it has the, it's like, you can choose drawstring, but it has the, like, you know, like surf shorts. Yeah. Where they have the Velcro boom and it's like fitted. They go in sizes like of your waist. It's not just like, er, which actually I'm not against the whole A1, A2, A3. You know, I'm not against that. It's actually fine. It's cool.

Super simple. But this is good. It's like when you get it, you can order your pants size. Boom. So you know when you put it on, it's going to be dope. Anyway,

and it is dope. And, you know, the public responded in that way as well. So, oh, also. And Rashgard's T-shirts.

Yeah. We're going to make a bunch of other stuff. Yeah, yeah. There's some cool stuff on there. And the point is really sure. I'm talking about the ghee. Why?

Because I was all up in that ghee this week. And it's fresh on my mind. And it's, you know, one of those things that sticks in there. Also, at the camp, you know how like when you give your laundry? I only had that one.

So you give your laundry, you're out of ghee. You can't go to the next session unless you get another ghee, which is kind of, I wasn't really about that. But so I would use them twice in a row, and they dry surprisingly fast. It's not even a surprise. They dry fast. They're not 100% cotton.

They got polyester, I think, in there with silver-coated. They they're not not kidding It's anti-microbial silver coating on it Yeah, not like silver you can see it Yeah But yeah that's why silver that's the thing That's the same thing with mine when I pulled mine When I pull mine out of the washing machine after the spin cycle it's almost dry

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah Yeah but dang it feels comfortable It's nice yeah so yeah man anyway so yeah So origin main main main main like the state main main M A A AIN E eat so origin main.com going there is a lot of cool stuff There, a lot of it. So yeah, check that one out. That's the best gear in America all made in America.

Best gear in the world, all made America. Also, Jocko has some supplements. So still on origin, mane.com, right? There's a part, and I was, because I was looking for them, you go on the top. Yeah. And it says labs. You click on there. Boom, that's all the supplements.

Super krill. Mm-hmm. Because normal krill. You mean Jocko super cruel? Jocker. You couldn't just do the krill oil, huh? You couldn't. No, no, no, I got super cruel.

Yeah, super krill. Why get krill when you can get super krill? One of those deals? Superkills got the capes on. All right, cool. There you go. And, you know, joint warfare, which is, you know, a blend of joint refurbishing. Yeah, yeah.

Furbishing. Is it a furbishing a word? Refurbishing, right? But the refurbishing is just doing it again, right? Yeah. And that's got the things that I always take. Yeah. Eucosamine, curcumin, chryton.

And the chondroitin is in the form of C cucumber. Sweet. That's where it comes from. Sweet. So, yeah. It's legit. It's not interesting, I guess you could call it layers. This is exactly what you were taking for years.

Yeah. And you were like, hey, guess what? Origin in the house. Let's just make that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, sometimes I'd have to combine different things before. Yeah.

But now I don't have to combine anything anymore. Oh, they're already combined. We're going to combine it into one pill. Yeah, one deal, yeah. Boom, there you go. It's warfare. Joint warfare. Against joint weakness.

Yep. It's a good idea, too, by the way, because now I got two kids. Remember when I told the story, like, you know, when you wake up? Yeah. And my daughter, she was three. Yeah, I'm going to tell it again. So she used to jump on my back when I get. When you're right when you wake up that's your least warm that's when you're trying to warm up and get do physical stuff

The least warm you'll ever be just in everyday life is when you wake up. Yeah those first 12 burpees are are hard when yeah or before you do the Burpees that moment so this is the exact moment when my daughter you know 40 pounds or so jumped on my back my shoulders My back on my shoulders whatever she chose and you know after I took krill for I think it was like five six days boom I could easily do it. I didn't have to like focus on my form nothing like that. Now I got two kids. And my daughter who's older is heavier. So

not this morning. Yesterday morning, I go to wake up for school or whatever. I already have my son. He weighs. I don't know how much he weighs, but he's one. I have him. She still wants to jump on my shoulder. I have him because he's like, oh, and then he sees her jump on and so he's like, so basically I'm the, what do you call it?

The vehicle that they're riding on. Early in the morning, by the way. Still no problem. Still going strong. So yeah, man. That's it. That's a joint warfare situation right there. And krill, super krill.

Get on it. You'll be glad you did. Also check out on it.com slash jocco. This is where I get my kettlebells. And I mentioned this. I got the gorilla ones, 72 pounds. So I'm cruising, right? Not lifting, cruising.

And Jade comes. My brother comes. I was like, I was like, yeah, go check out those new kettlebells I got. And he goes. Oh yeah, yeah, those are cool. I was like, go ahead, pick them up. He goes to pick that. It's like kind of heavy, you know?

But I've been doing kettlebells. I was like, no, let me show you. Not even warmed up, nothing. Speaking of krill oil. Yeah, it was actually really the krill oil springing into action, really. Boom, I do it. And, you know, had to show them what up. Nonetheless, that was done with those kettlebells, which are dope, by the way.

I'm not going to say get the designer ones I'm not going to say that I think you should but I'm not going to say to do that I say go on there on it dot com slash jocco check it out you like something get something they got cool battle ropes and any kind of exercise stuff like the new stuff

functional training equipment keep your workout interesting if you care about your workouts being interesting unlike Jocko Jock doesn't care about that stuff

don't get addicted to the interesting information like I did I think I'm past that addiction now but you know you do run that risk

on it.com slash jaco that's a good on also good way to support is when you're buying these books at Jocko reviews we didn't review one today

but you know in the future Jocko might and it has in the past we organize these books by episode on joccopodcast.com. Go on the top. Click on books from podcast. Boom.

All in order to support the podcast. Click through there to get them. Boom. It takes you to Amazon. Supports the podcast that way. Also, if you're doing any other shopping, hey, feel free. If you're going to buy a new video camera in the event of your video camera breaking on the plane, when you check your luggage and the video camera's in there, you want to get another one.

Boom. Get it through there. All good. Big, uh, big support on that one. What? It seems like an opportunity time to talk about your other video camera.

Sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Actually, it's a good story though. Yeah. It's not like a tragic story, which it kind of felt like when you mentioned it. I was like,

oh, it brought me back. Okay. So here's a story. We go to Maine, right? Technically, we go to Boston. Then drive to me. Yep. Right.

So, you know, to drive to you, we rent a car, you know, the car rental place. And I have three bags. Well, you have what, one, two? Yeah, two bags. So five bags total. My computer bag and my suitcase. Yeah. So five bags total.

I have a big bag with equipment in it. Suitcase with, you know, all your jujitsu. And then the third bag, which was a carry-on, pretty big, you know. Most important. Most important. Kind of. has a it has an important camera

in there that I use my favorite camera I have ever had really good camera has some value to it we'll say and it's a red camera yeah it's a red epic epic W technically

red epic W it's an awesome camera is it the best you can buy or is there one more it depends on what you mean but best but it's it yeah there's one sort of level okay well I'll put you this

it ain't cheap no it ain't cheap at all In some places in the country you could buy a house for the cost of this camera. Yeah Yeah, yeah so it's an expensive camera. Yeah, and and you'd think like okay Echo's gonna take really good care of this stuff. Yeah, which I do really that's why I carry it on Yeah, boom boom you know doesn't even trust anyone touching it he's gonna carry it with him. Yeah, okay continue So boom we get in the rental car we got apparently got five bags to account for Was there there was no there's some kind of confusion you know what happened? Yes, there was yes remember? Yes remember when you were getting in what was like an expedition? Yeah, something like that and

Those new ones have that automatic tail door that goes up. Yeah. And you know what it was? I think there's like a sensor under the bumper that if you like put your foot under there, it closes. Like if you know, like a hands free closing the door situation. So the thing started closing on me. On Jocko, yeah. And the girl, the rental girl was trying to save me.

Yeah. And she couldn't. Yeah. So it was like, too strong for her, which was kind of funny because I didn't even care. And I just kind of like put my back into it and stopped. But I was watching her kind of chuckling because she's trying to. to stop it and it wasn't stopping. It was, she was looking, she had a look on her face like, I was about to die.

Yeah. You know, straight up. Like Indiana Jones, I was gonna get my head cut off by the door slamming shut. And I was just kind of like laughing at the whole situation. Yeah. But that caused some confusion, apparently. It was like, it was like a little micro emergency that happened. And so I was like, boom, flustered, but wait, what all the bags are in or not?

And we were trying to fit, remember, because we, you were trying to get the seats down. Yeah. Maybe three quasi-major things going on at once. No, no, no major things going on. And, you know, for the sake of story, I'm just going to continue. So, boom, we get it all, all loaded. I apologize to everyone for asking. We get it all loaded.

And at one point, like, we were like halfway up. This is a three-hour drive, by the way, if we don't stop. And we did stop. So it was like five hours or something like that. So we stopped and I remember, hey, I don't know. We stopped and got fried chicken, by the way. It was good. It was really good.

I loved it. Yeah, I was stoked. Nonetheless, I had a thought, and it was literally lasted three seconds. Like, I don't really remember putting my camera bag in the car. But what am I to do? Not put it in the car? It's like the most important bag. So whatever.

So we just continue. We get up there, and right as we pull into, like, park. Like, five seconds before. We're talking like four hours later. We're in the back country of Maine. Yeah. Like not even knowing. First time there, by the way, which I don't know what that even means.

But either way, we're there. And I'm all pumped up. Yeah, even though I couldn't roll because my rib, I was stoked to go in and see everybody and hang out. Yeah, you can see everyone. You can see everyone's inside the light of the gym. Yeah. So they can't see that we're outside.

Yeah. But I'm stoked. So it's, yeah, the beginning of the deal, the adventure, if you will. And right as we kind of rolled to a stop, I'm thinking, man, did I? You know how you kind of count. We're here. And now you start to account for it. And I don't remember that stuff.

So the first thing you do I look in the back seat because that's where it would have went. not there and I look in the back not there and you know you get that cold feeling that just rushes over your body like oh my god so I'm like man

so whatever I tell you and you're like oh you know get on the phone you know call the airport and bro you ever tried to calling the airport for something? Yeah I was yeah okay I told you this afterwards my opinion was at that point I was like that thing's gone 100%

99% gone 99. 99.99% you're never going to see that thing again I had already cut it away emotionally and detached from it. And I was kind of throwing you bones like, oh yeah, call the airport. Maybe they can help you.

That was actually nice of you. Because you really, you seem like you care, not necessarily about the camera necessarily, but you cared about me. Yeah. You know, like I really thought that thing was gone. There's no chance of getting it back.

Get over it. Yeah. And I was a little bit, I said, you know, is there podcast recorded that you don't have copies of on there? And you said, no, they're all uploaded.

I was like, good thing. Yeah. Because we're never going to see that thing again. Yeah. And I was thinking I'll see it again in three months maybe when they finally recover it from Austin found from

the Boston airport by the way or I get my insurance money for it down the line and then I got to go through the purchase process which is a thing big gut check and but we don't have it for this trip for sure and later on I found out or realized that we have the podcast like

SD cards in there so well we guess we could have just bought some anyway nonetheless we get there and I'm calling the airport and right when the airport recording picks up. Yeah, I just get this feeling like, oh my gosh, I'm just completely going through the motions right now. No one's going to pick up and be like, sure, I'll look for it. Yeah, I got it. No one, that's not going to happen. But I keep calling. I'm like, I'm not going to be the guy who didn't do everything I can. So I'm calling it or whatever. Meanwhile, we got to go talk to Pete.

We got to, you know, all this stuff. And actually, you released me. You go, hey man, go ahead. I'll make these calls. And I was like, okay, cool, you hang out. Just make this totally worthless effort because you're never seeing that thing again. I'll go hang out with people. Yeah, so after like a few minutes that I go in. I'm like you know what? Let me whatever Let me kind of cut it away as you're saying. Let me at least embrace that you know what we're doing Go in and you kind of kind of casually in a way mentioned like hey there's some guys from the Police Department if that came across casually I shouldn't have made it come up because I met a bunch of guys you know everyone saying hi and a couple guys. You know yeah

we're cops and Ravilla down in Massachusetts and you know right by Boston. Yeah, right. I Right next to it. And, and I met them. And then you strolled back in, and you met a couple people. And then I said, you talked to anybody? Well, yeah, I talked to this. And, you know, they're going to look, whatever. I'm thinking, yeah, things gone.

And I said, you know, if there's anyone in the world that could, like, make something happen right now, it's cops. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's, Boston cops, Revea cops. And, and I just said, I said, bro. And I was a little, this is my ego. I was embarrassed for you. I felt bad that you had to go and tell somebody that you lost this sick camera.

And so I just said, hey, man, those guys over there, they're cops. And if there's anyone that's going to get this thing back, it's them. Yeah. And I'm thinking, you know the whole story where, like, the oldly. So did you not think that they were going to be able to help? I thought that they'd be like, oh, you lost your bag? Like, everyone does every single day at that airport? Oh, we're cops, bro.

We have crimes to solve. Yeah, no. I'm not going to go get your stupid back. My attitude of that thing being gone actually changed as soon as I connected, I said to myself, oh, they're cops. We're going to turn this over to them and they can make things happen. That's good. And even me, when I was like, okay, I'm going to mention it to these cops.

And these cops are going to be like, diva? Like, what do you think our job is, you know, to go recover your lost luggage? Like, three hours away, by the way? No. So I'm like, you know what? Jocko said to do it. I'm just going to do it. This is another go through the motions thing.

So I kind of timidly go Dennis and Nate. They were there. They just rolled or whatever. And I was like, yeah, I lost the bat. And they were like, what did it look like? Like they kind of were into it. I was like, oh, this is promising. You know, like they actually care because I was thinking they'd be like,

man, that's a sad story, bro. I'm going to go talk to Jocko again, you know, kind of thing. I thought that was going to happen. And they were like, no, bro, they get on the phone. And they're like, what did it look like? Boom. One more question. Like, well, where did you leave it?

Okay, boom, back on the phone, back on the phone. These two guys, I'm like, oh, this is, it's starting to kind of look up. And he's like, okay. So they hang up the phone. He's like, just a waiting game now, just a matter of time. I got this, I got this guy. I'm like, for real? They're like, yeah, man, just waiting game.

Bro, they said, we're talking. They called all their bros out there. And there's like a force of troopers went out there to get in there, had that thing recovered in what? 20 minutes. 20 minutes. So they hang up and they're like, just a matter time, bro. And then we just start talking about other stuff. Yeah.

You know, kind of teasing me a little. bit whatever I deserve it probably even ten times that but and then we're talking about other stuff boom his phone rings he's on it he's like is it off the mine shift bag and all this is describing it I don't even know that's how out of the I'm like yeah I think so go inside and he's any any bust out my laptop or whatever it's matching the description and in my mind I'm like there's no way he found it like a cop's not going to just roll into the Logan airport yeah and find my bag no way that's going to happen but sure enough he's like oh yeah fragma because it has a frag mob sticker on my on my laptop he's like fragmub I was like that well cold feeling turned

into just warmth in love and rainbows on this guy I was like that's the one they're like and you know they're kind of they didn't actually high five but they're kind of like almost like you know this was this little task they kind of bonded together and just like that 20 minutes man it and then someone and then who drove it up um Robbie yeah that's his name right Robbie yeah yeah I owe him a role um actually there was another guy Callahan who was the guy who went and grabbed so it was like a coordinated deal man and man that was like that one of the more heroic things that has happened to me in the in the recent past so got the camera back got the camera back and the computer

yeah and we're good so in the event so the point is in the event of you shopping for cameras can't get a red camera on Amazon but if you want to get like a Sony HD handy cam you know whatever you're using because it broke in the luggage I'm not saying that happened to me I'm just saying if that ever happened You want to get another one boom you can go through their jockel store.com click through and thanks to everyone that got that camera back Yeah much appreciated and the laptop with all kinds of videos and important stuff on it Yeah, actually there's you guys rocked in the laptop but but yeah man Dennis and Nate the primary guys Mr. Callahan I didn't meet him but he's done because you recovered that and then Robbie I owe you a role

Oh you two rules I owe you a lot man yeah You're the man. He's the one who delivered it. It's a big up to all of them, big time. So, also, back to support of Jocko podcast. Subscribe to the podcast. iTunes, Stitch, or Google Play. It's a good way to support.

Kind of, kind of obvious, like, oh, yeah, you subscribed already, but some people, maybe they didn't. Maybe they're just kind of maybe wish, not wish, wash, but, you know, kind of still on the fence. But yeah, man, do it. You can unsubscribe if we're not delivering value. I don't like to use that expression, adding value because everyone uses it thinks it's cool I thought it was cool

nonetheless if we're not adding value you cannot subscribe if you want also subscribe on YouTube what's the recent development oh your book this discipline equals field manual field manual which you'll talk about later yeah we put a video on there kind of a little summary I was real excited to see that video come out yeah and I was we you know we were texting back and forth and you said well how about you know we'll put it out tomorrow but it's ready and I said just put it out now yeah yeah yeah late and then you said launching in three two and then there was and I went to my YouTube on my phone and I was uh

refreshing refreshing refreshing refreshing refreshing and I wanted to catch it like the first person to catch it I'm refreshing refreshing refreshing and this happened I got a ping from my mail on my phone And I switched to mail and it said Jocko podcast has uploaded a new video So that's one of the benefits of subscribing to the YouTube channel if something comes out you can have it email you if you want it to You can have it email you when something new comes out and otherwise there's no way you'd know yeah So if you if you care about that kind of stuff Which you know this one of those deals where yeah sure you get the video version of the podcast If you care what we look like just fine actually people play it on their team

like in their little home gym or something like that which it's cool it's kind of like we're all there together You know yeah, and then yeah some excerpts in there the video that you made for the book Yeah I think it might be your best video ever it might be I think it's up there man I was yeah I was talking it's real good I was talking to somebody on Facebook and like oh hey that video's cool And I thought about like oh I was like yeah man thanks for that but I thought about it's like wait Jock kind of did all the work Really, you know, you're the one working out, your words, you're saying the words. I said, all I did was put some cool music and some words on there.

Yeah, but you made all that other stuff happen in there, the words and the way it's all coordinated together and all that stuff. Put some lights on there. Nonetheless, you know what, to be honest, I like how it came out too. Yeah. It was good. You think it might be the best one? Hey, man, you know, it depends on what you mean by best, you know. I don't know.

Impactful? It's impactful. Sure. It's a good one. I liked it. Yeah, it was, uh, but if someone who wasn't. subscribe to the YouTube channel yeah they might not never know that that video exists that's true and that that's that hurts or no Facebook or no Twitter or no

nothing yeah yeah so choose your your well I tweeted that one out but I don't always tweet out when something comes out yeah yeah that's true you know yeah don't always do that sure so if you subscribe you'll know regardless of what my actions are that's true and you know choose whether or not you want to alert you know sometimes you don't want that alert every single time but sometimes you do you know I'll put some deleted scenes on there as well anyway nonetheless yeah YouTube channel we have one and it's cool I think it's cool jocco thinks it's cool

I just got a little thing YouTube kind of changed their look on YouTube I don't know if you notice that well I it's hard for me to judge because I have YouTube red now oh yeah no ads so dope nonetheless I like the ads ads actually they did a good thing with the ads now now you can click like I don't like this ad or you can give that so you can kind of narrow down the ads you see. I like the movie trailer ads, you know?

I don't like any ads. I don't watch what I want to watch. Everyone else get away from me. Yeah, yeah, I dig it, man. I dig it fully. Nonetheless, point there is, subscribe to the YouTube channel is a good way of supporting the podcast if you want to. Also, Jocko is a store.

It's called Jocco Store.com. Of course, very creative name. By the way, I guess technically I came up with the name. Yeah, you did. Just store. Is your store, Jocko's store? I concurred with the name. Yeah.

So, what do we have on the store? If you don't know already, we've got shirts on there. Rash guards, travel mugs, some bumper stickers. Patches. Hats. Did you bring mine today? Top hats. You don't look like you did.

Yeah, no, I didn't. Bring yours. Serbo. You owe me nine. Yeah Nonetheless, they're on there Jocco store.com I guess technically

You could go to your own store And get a hat or nine hats As a case maybe you Okay, I'll do that today Thank you. Yeah, yeah, if you want to. Some women's stuff on there. Some hoodies, we want to get a thicker hoodie

That's what we're doing, right? I know you said it a bunch of times. But yeah, we'll work on that So there it, boom, hoodies. I think what? What's the next move? What's the next thing? winter hoodie winter hoodie yeah yeah I think it should be I think I'm gonna put a

warrior kid rash guard on there too for for worried kids doing no gijitsu or even gie you know you wear the rash card on you the glee sometimes yeah yeah yeah I think that'd be dope all that stuff nonetheless jocco store that's where you get jocco stuff it's pretty cool so I'm not saying to buy something I'm saying go on there check it out if you like something get something good way to support also psychological warfare If you don't know what that is, it is an album with tracks. Jocko tracks. It's Jocko saying stuff to you.

So if you listen to it, it's not like a story. Right? Like a lot, you know, a lot of times. It's not music, obviously. It's not Jocko singing hardcore, which you do from time to time, by the way. You ever write, and here's kind of a rhetorical question. Okay, have you ever ridden, not you, Jocco, but the people out there? Have you ever ridden with Jocko for five hours, three to five hours in a car?

No? Okay, let me tell you what it's like Part of what it's like It's Jocco drumming Even in the airplane by the way Drumming on what do you call that The handle in the door like you're doing like drums And then singing under his breath Hardcore stuff

What else were you singing? I don't even know He's like Tom Petty or something Anyway I have no idea Yeah but it was songs All as I know occasionally I'd look at you And you'd be looking like

Can you please stop? Yeah yeah Which I got a kick out of me Yeah, yeah. Or stop the car and like, get out or something. Yeah, you get out and walk. Yeah, yeah. I'm playing drums.

That was the look for sure. Yeah. Wait, no. You get out. Stop playing drums and get out. That was a look. Nonetheless, these tracks are not that. They're him,

him, Jocco, talking to you, telling you pragmatic ways to get over your current weakness. What weakness? Okay, so let's say you're trying to stick to a good diet, right? Trying to wake up early or all of the above right at this moment actually Yeah currently on 48 hours right now currently yep feeling good too I guess technically I'm fasting too because I ate a salad oh

Hardcore workouts yesterday and today rolled last night 70% ribs a little tweaked still But Andy Dean light rolls a little bit with NAM I think that was it but yeah no fasting the whole time Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dang. Yep. So technically, am I fasting if I ate a salad at like 1145 last night? Well, yeah.

And that was it. I drank some coffee. Yeah. Fasting, right? Yeah, yeah. Fast. 24-hour fast. No, right now.

No, 12-hour fast. No, you're not fasting. No credit removed. Is there such thing as an eight-hour fast? I think that's just life, dude. When's the, I think it's like, four and a half-half. If you're not doing at least 12 hours. Okay, 12 hours is the cut-off for-

I don't know what the cutoff is, dude. I'm not a doctor. Yeah, but you're, well, you're fasting right now currently. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What if, like, you just didn't eat yet? Whatever. Then I just didn't eat yet.

There's a difference. Yeah, so what's the difference? That's the question. I don't know. Hey, you're a man of humility. You say, you don't know when you don't know. I like that. Nonetheless, back to psychological warfare.

If you're trying to stay on the fast or wake up early every morning, you know, or stick to the diet, stay on the program, whatever, in whatever way. Ways that you have opportunities to slip. This is an album with tracks that tell you why you shouldn't slip on your waking up early, your diet,

you're working out. My whole thing, you know, like I said before, if I don't feel like working out, I kind of tend to be like, well, maybe I'll rest today.

Maybe I'll do it later. You know, that whole thing. Not good. Yeah, this helps with that. It'll just tell you like why. It'll,

in a nutshell, it tells you the benefits of not slipping and the repercussions. of slipping in a pragmatic way but it's jaco telling it to you so it works 100% of the time my experience speaking of fasting people ask me this all the time when you're fasting do you eat anything yeah i do actually sunflower seeds sunflower seeds because it takes you like 37 minutes to have one little tiny seed to get it chewed up and so it's but they're but they're good because they keep you occupied and you're chewing and they taste good and blah blah blah sometimes i'll grab a handful of nuts just mixed nuts just maybe one in the morning maybe one at night yeah one handful and

jocco white tea boom that's the the things now sometimes i won't eat the nuts but i don't know i i i'm you got to be careful that you don't have 13 handfuls of nuts yeah because that's like i'm just talking like a handful of nuts right um but jocco white tea i have that for sure and you know what if you call me now or you want to put like, oh, you weren't really fasting because you have jocco white tea and you had a handful of nuts. I mean, if you think about the amount of calories that I burn on a daily basis, a handful of nuts is basically

insignificant. But whatever, maybe I'm doing it wrong. That's okay. I'm just telling you what I'm doing. I'm not telling you to do it. I'm not telling you to copy what I'm doing right now. I'm just telling you what I'm doing right now. Don't imitate me. Go find a professional to talk about fasting. I'm just telling you what I'm doing.

Jock white tea, let me tell you, taste good. Feels good. and increases your deadlift about 12 fold or so yeah so that's real good for you you can get it on Amazon also on Amazon you can get some books extreme ownership combat leadership I appreciate everyone that gets it for themselves and then gets it for their teams and sends pictures of 47 extreme ownership copies stacked up I got something else for you that's awesome get it for your business associates Mm-hmm people that you work with but they're not in your company

You get it for them and that's gonna improve everything in your world too because then they start taking ownership of problems and everything gets better So no and I've got I've had a lot of people that have said Hey, I gave this to this person. I gave this to this you know partner that I used to have and now he's got his own business But we're working together and I gave him the book and now we're working together even more So there's a good idea for you way the warrior kid this is awesome at the origin camp a bunch of people from all over the northeast brought their kids up to meet, hang out,

get a signature and all that. And what's cool, this is what's cool. Kids tell the truth. You know what I mean? They don't even, they're not aware of, they don't care about your feelings at all.

Yeah, no. And it's awesome to, you know, I always say to kid, oh, did you read that book? And they go, yes. I go, how'd you like it?

And they all say, oh, I love it. It's awesome. And we know your jaco. And thank you for writing it and those kids are getting stronger and smarter and tougher and better So you want to help out kids that you know get them this book right here Discipline equals freedom field manual That's what it is it's a field manual for those of you that don't know what a field manual is in the military a field manual is the

Instructions on how to do something in the field whether it's attack a strong objective or whether it's do a reconnaissance or how to conduct a patrol the field manual gives you the instructions on how to do that and that's what this is the discipline equals freedom field manual is a field manual on how to implement discipline into your life there's zero amount of fluff in here There's zero yeah there there's nothing in there that you're gonna say to yourself. I think jocco might have just thrown this in here for you know kind of take up some space in the pages didn't happen rather not do it rather burn the whole book Don't care about that books not long enough cool read less Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's what it is get it from your local bookstore So go down to the neighborhood bookstore and tell them you want this book or you can get it from Barnes & Noble You can get it from Amazon let them know what's up It's in the get after it section of your local bookstore

If they have one if they don't have that section they need it so they can put this one book by it in there getting after it your video is awesome by the way thanks job for your business if you need to help aligning your leadership and improving the way that your whole team leads together check out our leadership and management consulting company it's called that'schelon front me Lafe Babin J.P to know Dave Burke you an email info at echelononfront.com finally the muster September 14th and 15th I'm pretty sure it's sold out by the time this podcast comes out we've been able to squeeze a couple more people in at each of these even

when we were sold out we got in like four more people three more people seven more people check might be completely sold out but extreme ownership dot com and it if you want to we're going to pretty soon get the dates for the 2018 musters going so start looking to that and get registered as early as you can and until the muster if you happen to want to keep cruising with us kind of hard we are on the interwebs on Twitter on Instagram and the feschi poha echo is at echo Charles and I am at jaco Willink and finally to the military members out there sitting on some forgotten barricade holding the line to protect us thank you to the vets that stood on the wall and did their time thank you to the police law enforcement firefighters EMTs other first responders thank you for what you do day in and day out and to the rest of you with goals and dreams and aspiration make sure you remember that seconds

turn into minutes minutes turn into days and days turn into years so make those seconds count and until next time this is echo and jocco out