Jocko Podcast - 96: How to Introduce Extreme Ownership to Your Boss. How to Deal With Your Spouse's Trivial Issues. Leading People Out of Complacency. Strength and Weakness.

Episode Date: October 18, 2017

0:00:00 - Opening 0:00:34 - How to introduce "Extreme Ownership" to a failing boss. 0:07:13 - Respecting people who don't have discipline. 0:16:35 - How to get a team member to pull their weight if they become complacent.  0:24:23 - As a Teacher, how do you effectively demonstrate extreme ownership with students? 0:50:05 - When you experience darkness on the job, how to deal with your spouse and be supportive when dealing with their trivial problems compared to your serious ones. 1:00:53 - As a leader: Calling out poor performance VS Extreme Ownership. 1:08:12 - Is it normal to get bruises, cuts, and scrapes from Jiu Jitsu from training partners going rough? 1:34:53 - How to get "noticed" to be selected to be put into a leadership position. 1:40:44 - Can you be weak and strong at the same time? 1:43:53 - Support JockoStore stuff, Origin Brand Apparel, with Jocko White Tea and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual.  2:04:56 - Closing GratitudeSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 96 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. And we are going to roll right into some Q&A from people of the interwebs. Yes. Well, they're not actually of the interwebs. They're from around the world. Right, everyday life, but through the inner web.

Is where we receive questions. Yeah. Cool. Yes. It's been a while, right, since Q&A. It has been a while. all since Q&I. That's cool. All right. Well, first question. Recently, at my job, we got a new supervisor, one who happens to be retired Army after 20 years. He and I had a pretty heavy run-in to which

resulted in getting HR involved. The end result was that I would not be written up for what he claimed I was doing. He tried to make an example out of me almost as soon as he got here, Assuming I was easy to, he assumed I was an easy target. Anyways, to the point. Even though he and I had a falling out, I'd still like to see the guy succeed at his job and become a great leader. After listening to your podcast over the last month, I'm making an effort to improve our relationship at this job instead of just avoiding the man. I've recently purchased your book, Extreme Ownership. How would you suggest I present this book to my new supervisor and read, or to read, without I'm feeling as if I'm being.

belittling him as to say he needs work on his leadership. I think he could benefit from it greatly. Good question. It's actually a question I've answered on here before, but I'll answer it again because I even learn when I repeat. Sure. This is my latest version of what I tell people when they're in the situation. Yeah, updated version.

Because you get better at things. You figure out better ways to overcome challenges, especially when you're presented with the same challenge over and over again, which I kind of am yeah some challenges like this one so here's what here's what you do you give it to him and you say you know hey boss or hey person hey I got this book and I'm trying to really emulate the principles that are in this book it really hit me and I would I was wondering if I could ask you a favor if you could just look through this book kind of see what the principles are And then if you see me falling out a line with the principles that are in this book, let me know so I can fix them.

Basic things. Like if I'm not taking ownership of problems, if I'm not keeping things simple, if I'm not supporting other people around me covering and moving for them, just let me know. That's all I'm asking because I'm really trying to do a better job. Could you do that for me? So then the person says, well, yeah, okay, fine, you know, and then they read the book. And when they read the book, sure, there's a chance that there will be. We're thinking like, oh, this book is about everyone else and it's not about me. Right.

Right? That's possible. There is also a chance, a higher chance that they read the book and go, whof, I make a lot of excuses and I blame other people all the time. I'm probably not doing a great job as a leader. And that might be subconscious. I see that sometimes now where people are subconsciously making adjustments because they don't want to admit that they're the person that's, that's the problem. They don't want to admit that they're the problem. So they make these little adjustments kind of subconsciously.

And other people will tell me. that the boss is like changing, oh yeah, they're changing their game. They won't admit it, but they are changing their game. So that's what you hope for is that they go through that transformation from, you know, not taking ownership and treating people bad and not trying to build relationships and all that stuff that makes them into a bad leader into taking ownership, building relationships, covering moving, keeping things simple, all the stuff that makes you a good leader. That's what the hope is.

Now There's also a chance that this person's gonna hold a grudge Right we we we got a deal with that and I'll tell you I was recently talking to someone that had Stepped on the toes of another business another business another sales division and you know sales people are Sort of known for being Protective and aggressive look protective of their territory well this guy kind of stepped into their territory a little bit Cause some bad bad vibes Giant rift and he's like you know what should I do? You know I I feel like all this animosity now

And it's one of those times where I just said to myself well what would I actually do if I was in that situation How would I try and get this problem solved? Well, what I would do is walk up to the person who I stepped into their territory and cause problems And I'd say hey Hey, hey, I wanted to tell you I totally was out of line when I stepped into your territory that that was completely my fault and you know I was just got target fixation which is bad I didn't talk to you which is bad I stepped into your world which is bad and I left the disaster and I'm sorry that's that all that stuff everything that I just said all my fault and I want to let you know that I completely

recognize it and number one anything I can do to try and redeem that and and make it up and make you realize that and anything I can do to support and help you move forward I don't I will not Let that happen again. I just want to let you know that. So boom, just step up, be humble, apologize, and say, hey, can you, what can I do to help you? What can I do to support you? That's where I would go with this question and then sort of an addition to that question. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's kind of like, you know, when you give your boss the book, right, and be like, hey, this is what I'm doing. Is that kind of like when you get, you know, like if someone has a bad, bad breath and then you put in gum, you know? You eat some gum and you say, hey, you want some gum? Yeah, that's very similar. You just break out the gum. You know, I was like to do this, you know, just to make sure. I was like to have a piece of gum just to make sure, you know. Yeah.

Oh, you want one? Yeah, yeah, you can have. You might want to take two. Oh, check. Because you think, you're like, oh, wait. Yeah, shoot. What if I had bad breath in? Let me handle this before anyone can smell it

You check. Oh, you know that just reminded me because I laughed sure it just remind me of two things I just saw on the on the interwebs One was a person that said Something negative about about the podcast or the book And he said look this guy should just smile He doesn't he never smiles and anything and someone of course was like you might want to listen to his podcast because he laughs a lot and then someone else Said this guy should just pick up a guitar. He doesn't he doesn't know anything about freedom and I was like you know anything about freedom of And someone else got on something. He does play guitar.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Hater's not, do a little fact-checking with your hate. Yes. That's all I'm saying. Uh-huh. If you want to throw some hate around, just do a little, a little fact-checking. Because we're over here laughing.

Yeah. We're playing the Git box from time to time. That's what you call it the Git box? The Git-box. I don't think I've ever heard that before. Yeah. You gotta be old-school in that one. All right.

Next question. Jacob, do you still respect people without discipline? Interesting. Okay, so first of all, my baseline as a person is to respect people. That's my baseline. Now, that is not the same as something we've talked about before, which is that doesn't mean I expect a lot from them. Okay? You see the big difference there? I respect people. Hey, I respect you. I respect what you're doing. That doesn't mean I expect that you're going to be humble or you're going to be hardworking or you're going to be brave or you're going to even be a slightly decent human being. I don't expect any of that. But, but. But I and let me let me phrase this carefully That doesn't mean I don't treat them with respect now you notice I just changed this Yes, it's not just about I actually respect you it's I'm gonna treat you with respect There's a big difference right right yes I'm gonna I'm gonna treat everyone with respect But as far as actually respecting someone

No, no I'm not just automatically respecting people now treat them with respect because I don't know who they are I don't know what struggles they've had in their life. I don't know what they've been through I don't know that so I'm gonna treat him with respect and it's a very similar like a jiu jitzu perspective you don't know as okay Jiu jitsu perspective no gee right you don't know how good someone is no belt yeah you you don't and and this is another thing when you when you know how good someone is and let's say you're better than them if you really understand jiu jitsu you realize that better than them because you've been training longer fundamentally right of course are there some people that are just amazing athletes sure sure but 98% of the people

you've just been training longer than them or you just were born a lot bigger than them or a lot stronger than them but you look at them and say you know what if this person if we flip this around and this person be training longer I'd be the one getting crushed right so there's that now so so yes I treat people with respect and my my attitude is generally to say look I don't know what they've been through so I'm gonna I'm gonna treat him that way now that being said when someone just throws away their potential because they lack discipline that kind of bothers me I mean it doesn't mean that I don't respect them but I am definitely disappointed and in conditions where there is a gross lack of discipline

Just a gross lack of discipline. I do move beyond just mere disappointment. And I do get into the realm of I do not respect that person because they lack discipline. So there you go. So it's like a respect meter kind of thing. And you're starting at the baseline. Yeah. Yeah.

I always start with treating everyone with respect. Yeah, yeah. You're going to treat everyone with respect. Yeah. And if you don't, you don't know who you're disrespecting. Yeah. Right? Who are you disrespect I mean you could be disrespecting first of all you could be disrespecting someone that is Ben through a lot that maybe you should learn from You could be you know you're walking down the street and you disrespect you could disrespect someone that's a psychopath with a gun

Yeah, and now you're in a shootout with them people are getting you know. I mean you're probably gonna win if you train hard but still. Yeah Innocence might be you know bystandards you just don't know here you just know who people are. Yeah, that's a good lesson to learn from Jitsu men You don't know how good people are. You don't know not just not just how well they train but what have they been through that day? Yeah in their life. Yeah, you know you meet some people in the wrong day and they could be really a real problem. Yeah So just be careful and you know what's funny I was thinking about this that being said my My buddy from Scotland his name is Colin and he sent me a text the other day and he was listening to the podcast and he's a very avid listener of the podcast and And he said, he said, finally after 94 podcasts, I understand what that being said means. Mm-hmm.

And he's right. He said that being said is basically the verbalization of the dichotomy of leadership and of life and of things and of the world. Because that being said is when you recognize that one side of things is, is balanced by another side of things. Yeah. And it's true in everything there is, right? Like you could say jiu-jitsu is the best martial art. That being said, if someone wrestled in college and they're 262 pounds and you're 145 pounds, it's going to be problematic for you.

And you could say it about leadership. Hey, it's good to be aggressive and assertive. That being said, if you're overly aggressive, no one's going to want to work for you. So it applies across the board. It's those opposing forces. So I think it's a good tool. Mm-hmm. To use when you think about things.

What is the other side of the argument? What is the other side of the situation? Yeah. And knowing and studying the other side will make you understand everything better. Yeah. Yeah. That being said, it can be very difficult to understand anything for it. Very hard. That's life, really, right?

So the no expectation, and I think we talked, I know we talked about this before, but you say, I don't have any expectations. I have low expectations. Yeah. Even though expectation, a lot of times people will take that as like you expect low performance out of me, you know, which is different. No, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right. You're correct.

Yes. Yeah, because that essentially means that you do have expectations. They're just like negative. You know, I expect like low performance out of you. I expect you to do the wrong thing or something like that. I, my expectations are low. My hope is high. Yeah.

I hope that you are, you know, hardworking, very diligent, squared away, human being. that's... So technically, so obviously you know the difference between expecting performance or just having a clean slate, no real expectations, and I'm going to take things the way they come. Obviously, you know the difference there. So what would you call when someone says, I have low expectations of you? Sounds like they expect you to do junk. Yeah, that does.

That sounds bad. I have low expectations. Right. So, but when you put your hands up and say, hey, no expectations. Okay. That sounds different. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. So I guess my expectations are closer to the no expectations.

Right, right. Yeah, I don't expect negativity. Yes. But I don't expect much either. Yeah. Human beings, I like to set a low bar. Right, right. And then let the, be pleasantly impressed.

Yeah, yeah. Makes sense. So it's kind of like the expectation or respect or and the respect meter is kind of at this cool, acceptable baseline. Right. Just fundamental stuff. Yeah, fundamental stuff. You know, don't, you know, whatever. Yeah.

Don't step on my feet. on purpose the first time you meet me kind of thing and then with every little action bigger small with every experience with that person the the meter either goes up or it goes down and it depends on the violation or the whatever the element that's going to impress you right so let's say someone it's weird now you know how like we get impressed by like stuff that it seems like you're supposed to do did you just say we because are you talking about me too i think so okay i don't know that's a total assumption but like okay okay Are you impressed with people who keep their word?

Absolutely. Right. Yeah. That's an example. So you're supposed to keep your word. That's what your word is. You keep it, you know? That's kind of what the whole defining characteristic.

So you're saying, you're saying some other person might say, well, I just expect people to keep their word. You're supposed to do that. I remember, like, how Chris Rock on his little stand-up thing, he'd be like, oh, yeah, people want, like, credit for stuff you're supposed to do. Like, he's like, I take care of my kids. It's like, yeah, you're supposed to take care of your kids, you know? Kind of thing but when you think about it are you impressed with someone who takes good care of their kids You kind of are right? Yeah, but that's not to say you expect them not to though Right really you just you just you just have what I'm saying which is no expect close leaning towards no expectations

Yes and then when you experience it you kind of fall on one side of it you know whether it be like yes That makes me happy it makes me happy that you're doing what you're supposed to do that's what it is right there Right? Pretty much. Like when you showed up today, I was happy. Wait, you were ahead of time. Well, yeah. When I showed up and saw you here, I was happy you were here.

But you're supposed to be here. We agreed we were going to be here. Right. But I was happy. That's cool, I guess. Maybe you were just stoked to see me. Yeah. I wasn't impressed, but I was happy.

Okay. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of it. Anyway. I don't even know what you're getting the bottom too, but maybe we could do another question. Just your expectations and respect. You know, really the meticulous and specific dynamics of that. That's what we're going for there. Okay.

I think. Anyway, next question. Cool? Yeah, real cool. Jocco. What do I do when one of my teammates isn't really pulling their weight? They used to be pretty good, but things have gone downhill. How can I get, how?

can I get them to fix themselves it is extra tricky because he's a friend of mine okay well you got your your teammate slash friend that's not pulling their weight and how do you get them back in the game first thing I'm gonna do actually the first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna help them I'm gonna help I'm gonna take some weight off of their shoulders I'm gonna I'm gonna actually step in and say oh yeah hey echo you You know you got that project working on and you know with that little assignment you got hey I gotta stay at the office a little bit late tonight anyways I'm gonna knock you just give that to me I'll just hammer it out tonight I'm gonna be here anyways because I gotta pick up my kids late from school

Is that cool? Just take a little weight off sure just do what you can you know maybe just Carry some how do you know what that person's got going on at home? Yeah, right? What are you gonna jump right down their throat And get all in their face make it worse and get things worse when actually that person Has a sick kid or has a problem with their husband or wife or whatever and now we're getting in their face and getting their grill about it. Yeah. No, I'm just gonna lean in and give them a hand. That seems like what a good teammate would do, especially if the person's your friend. So get in there and hopefully They'll say, hey, hey, thanks. You know what? I got this problem at home or thanks. I got this health issue going on and you hey, no problem

That's and guess what we just built a little relationship. We bonded a little bit tighter We were friends now we're even a little bit tighter friends. Yeah, yeah. So that's a positive thing now Now, there's also a chance, of course, that, well, and to continue down that story, eventually they get healthier, they solve the problem at home, and they get back in the game, and then we're all good. And guess who the next person that might need a little assistance? It might be you. You might be the one with a problem, with a health issue, with a sick family member, or whatever,

and you're the one that might have to lean on them. You want them to get in your face and start yelling at you about pulling your weight? Or do you just want them to say, hey, I got some capacity right now. Let me help you out. Yeah. Right? It's it's so clear how you want to handle that number one you just want to take some ownership of what's going on Now there is also the chance that once they've come back or that you you help them out and they like

Start looking at you and saying oh, you know Jock was just gonna do all my work for me Jock was just gonna you know I can just lean on him he's just gonna do everything Oh I gave him one task I'll get I'll let him do this other task that I've been assigned I'll let him do another task that I'm gonna sign And if people start giving me their work to do good I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do their work yeah I'm gonna do their work and if they want to me to do all their work I'll do all their work and eventually they won't have a job anymore and then I'll take their job And then I'll have I'll get promoted and I'll hire more people that are gonna do the right thing and get after it

right so that's okay when some when somebody wants to put themselves on report for being lazy by allowing you to do work their work for them allow them to fill out that report in full detail and And and the other thing is so then do you do you jump up and down and say look I'm doing echo's job look I'm doing no no no no you don't do that You don't do that you don't do that you don't do it because you feel like you need to do it but you don't sure You the recognition will come you just need to be patient of course on top of all this there is some indirect coaching that you can do to try and get them up to speed you know as opposed to saying you're screwed up echo and said you say hey echo I got some extra capacity with what's going on is there anything I can do to help you out You know is there any support that you need because I know you're this part of the task is a little bit bigger than mine and so you know is there anything I can do to help you get the job done Do you need any support from me because I'm actually elevating you a little bit by saying your task is harder and challenging and bigger and more important

Or you can also say hey, hey Is there anything we should we need from the boss to to help us down here any support that we should get from up the chain of command? Because I think if we go with a unified front, we could get some help I'm actually feeling pretty good about my area of responsibilities, but are you feeling good about yours? Because if not, maybe you need some more support we could get it from if we go to the boss as a unified front and make it happen And then you say, oh yeah, well, you know what I got this and I need another person or I need some more man hours or whatever the case may be We get you moving in the right direction and that's it What if they're just slacking? They're just slacking. Cool.

Let them slack. Yeah. Let them slack. There's also a thing where a lot of times when I come and take your work from you, if you're not just a turd, you'll be like, hey, you know, Jocko. Hey, you did this last week. I got it, man. It's no problem.

You as a human being will feel like you're not carrying the weight for the tribe. And when human beings feel like they're not carrying the weight for the tribe, they want to help. They feel like they're not going to get their piece of meat, right? So they want to help out. You ever seen that you know, that's what your mom used to do to you when you were a kid Just they'd just be cleaning you something and you go out of you feel like, okay I need to help. Yeah, 100% Or you'll see, you know, your wife will do that to you. Yeah, yeah, she'll do that to me all the time

Actually every single time. So you know how like, you know, I don't know Saturday comes, you know We don't have any plans on Saturday. So I'm cruising and my wife starts taking on this kind of big cleaning project the garage Whatever I don't know garage in my case and then she'll kind of walk to be like hey You know what do you want me to do with this thing that I found in the back corner of the garage What do you want me to do with this? Yeah, yeah, well no well yeah of course that happens all the time But as far as the example for this the comparison is she'll be like hey can you clean out this whole thing right here and I'll be like I'll be like, oh yeah, you know, like I didn't really plan on that whole big project right now.

So, you know, maybe I'm kind of doing this unimportant thing or whatever. I'll be like, yeah, I'll do it in a few minutes. But then I'll see her doing it. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm doing? And then you're doing my work about all right, I got to do it. I can't let her do my job because it's kind of my job now. Yeah.

Well, one time my wife on the opposite end of the spectrum, we were planning to redo my backyard a little bit. And we were going to put in like a five foot retaining wall. With you know concrete block and dig a foundation and all that and then re backfill the soil to fill it up to the level of the five foot retaining wall And so I kind of talked about my wife with you know I was gonna you know hey this is what we're gonna do we're gonna build this retaining wall We'll put some steps here or it'll be good we can backfill we'll have a level yard to be really nice and so so then like on a Sunday at like 1 o'clock in the afternoon She's like why don't you build that retaining wall today Yeah, and I was like, you know what, it's a little late in the day for me to start that project right now.

Why, you got to get it all done? Because this was like a nine-day project. Yeah, yeah. That's why. Oh, she wanted you to build it right there in there. Hey, what are you doing this afternoon? If you're not doing anything, how much you build a five-foot concrete block retaining wall over here with drainage? And then backfill and put sod down.

That sounds like something you could do in the afternoon. Yeah, yeah. I'll hurry up, too. Unless you're weak. Next question. Get into my microphone. Whichever. Jocko.

I'm a high school teacher. I consider myself the leader in the classroom. How do I demonstrate extreme ownership in the classroom? For example, one of my students misbehaves. How do I take extreme ownership of their behavior? Okay, one way to do this. And I do this with my kids. I did it with my platoon guys.

Do it with Jiu-Jitsu kids. Whoever. And what you do is you do exactly what you're saying you want to do, which is you take ownership. So what that means is you take ownership of their behaviors. So when something goes, when the kids misbehaving, you say, hey, what am I not making clear to you that you continue to act like this? Because obviously I must be doing something wrong because I'm the teacher and you're in here acting like an idiot and disrupting everything. What am I not doing well? how could I convey this message to you that that you shouldn't act like that not only that

but how can I better make you understand that what you do right now is going to affect and impact the rest of your whole life because I want you I'm supposed to convey that to you as a person that if you get engaged in class you're going to have a more successful and better life and that's what my kind of goal is and so what I want to know is how I can better explain to you that your behavior while you're in here from classroom attendance to having big outburst to skipping class to not turning in your homework to failing tests all those behaviors that you kind of display on a regular basis I need to find a better way to explain to you that the way you are acting right now will absolutely dictate where you're going to be

in the future and it in by the way it's not a positive thing it's not a positive thing at all your life is going in the wrong direction and as a teacher I'm supposed to move it in the right direction so what do you think I could do better to help you understand that so there we go that's that's that's well that's one method and by the way I've used that with my kids too that's a very effective method for parenting is isn't why did you not clean your room It's how did I fail as a father to it to make you understand that basic fundamental hygiene is a positive thing? Mm-hmm. Where did I where did I fail?

And that's actually the cleaning room example isn't a great one, but when it's something a little bit more um severe than that something like when they really do something that's that's outside the lines, right? Mm-hmm. And you say instead of saying you know you went outside the lines you're messed up instead you say I'm sorry that I Couldn't convey you the importance of these lines and why we don't go out them and now now now now now I'm looking at you and I'm thinking I don't know what mistakes I made and I let you down as a as a father Because clearly you don't understand the boundaries of of what is good and what is bad and I feel like I let you down

And that for my kids provokes a better reaction than you that you screwed up. Yeah, yeah You screwed up. Um Now Going on the other thing you can do here is you can explain how their behavior Of effects and impacts everyone else in the class and that you as the teacher is not only responsible for their behavior, which you are But you're also responsible for teaching every single person in the class and and that you you're you as the teacher is not only responsible for teaching every single person in the class and and that you're you're you're you're you're you're you're You own that you own the education of these other kids and that you're not going to let one kid Destroy the experience for everyone else because that is not fair and you will not do it

I'm not gonna let that happen not gonna let you come in here and impact all these other kids with your negativity and your bad behavior These kids are here to learn they actually want to do something with their lives They want to take over and dominate they want to win and I'm looking at you and I think you must want To lose because that's where that's where you're heading. That's what you want to do is lose in life Because these other kids they want to win So I'm not gonna let that happen I'm not gonna let them lose because you want to lose if you want to lose You can go do it on your own time in the principal's office and then you maybe you have to kick them out of class Maybe you have to suspend them for or whatever and

I think that then you have to let people understand that just like you take ownership they should take ownership of their lives right That's a fundamental thing that you're getting at and Lastly and this is something that I think is very hard for young kids to understand Young kids meaning the ages between like 15 and 20 25 maybe even 25 some kids get it earlier, you know some kids understand it earlier But understanding this thread of this this thread of the passage of your life and that the way that you act right? Now affects the where you're going to be in a week in a month a year in five years and ten years and kids do not understand that they do not understand it I didn't understand it when I was Yeah, 12 15 18 30

You know what I mean like well? I think I think actually what one of the things one of the best things for me is that when you join the military They they show you that thread and it's very clear they're like hey you do this and you get promoted you do You do this and you get advanced. You get this and you get your paycheck. You get this. Oh, and you do this other thing, you don't get a paycheck. You didn't do this other thing, you go to the brig. You do this other thing and you won't make it through seal training.

Yeah. So, you know, that was for me. I shouldn't have said get promoted because for me it was get to seal training and get through seal training. I didn't care about getting promoted. I never did. But to get, when I was 18 years old, to get to seal training and to get through seal training that was a crystal clear path for me and I saw it and as soon as I saw it I said okay I will not veer off that path what they tell me to do I'll do now there's nothing that's that

solid for a civilian right for a civilian to say okay if you do this right now you're going to get into this college yeah if you get into this college and you get these kind of grades you're going to get this kind of job there's no real clear path like that and so it's harder to draw that thread for people but I think you can do it I think you're going to show examples of of where you end up in the societal structure based on your behavior as a teenage person a teenage human yeah yeah that's gonna be hard just straight up that's just gonna be hard for a teacher because because of the time constraints like that or the time limitations you have with it with the

kid yeah I think one thing that is I've done with with my kids is I look at other human beings in the world with them And I explained to them that that's a person. That's a person. I was talking about this with my son. It left such an impact on him yesterday. We were down at the beach early morning one time. Years ago, he was probably eight years old.

We were going surfing. Waves were good, by the way. It was a big day. Hell, yeah. We got done. And so now it's 7.38 o'clock in the morning. And there's a guy that's an obvious drug induced state of mayhem. And he's got five cops and they get him down and we're watching this whole thing and he's yelling

swearing and they they put a spit bag on his head. So he's just full on crazy and you know my son saying What is that dad? You know, it's like oh that's a spit bag so that this guy doesn't spit on these police officers that are down here doing their job and I said this is what happens when you go on drugs this is where you end up you end up with no shirt on One shoe a rip jeans you have a spit bag on your head you're handcuffed and you're going to jail That's where you end up that's where the path leads So don't do those things don't don't start down that path and it's the same thing you know I was with my daughter And we saw what did we see I was pointing out to her again someone a woman that clearly didn't have a place to live You know, she was a homeless person and I

You know walking with my daughter and we see the woman with the shopping cart and it's filled with you know stuff You know crap and sleeping bags and cans and whatever clearly a homeless person But was weird and the reason I specifically point out was because she looked somewhat you know somewhat normal and Yet you could tell that she was she was was not doing well and so you know I said to my daughter I said what do you think of of that person and she says I don't know what do you mean I said well do you think that person wants to be there and she said well well no I said well how do you think she ended up

there and she said I don't know and I said you know I don't know either but that's a real person and when she goes to bed tonight she's gonna be underneath a bridge somewhere she's gonna be cold she's gonna be wet she's gonna be miserable and That is how that's her life. That's where she ended up. So some choices that she made along the way may have contributed to that. And what I'm saying to you is make choices that will contribute to you not ending up in that position. Because those people that you see that are homeless that are addicted to drugs, those people are actually people.

And you can, it's very easy to view them as, oh, I can never be there. They're not there are different species than me. They're not That's I guess that's the that's the point of my story Is that it's really easy for People to look at other people and think that's not I could never be there That could not happen to me and my point to my kids is oh yes, it can if you make the wrong choices Good. Hey, you know what you could be bad luck sure it could be bad luck. It can be bad luck, but most of the time the vast majority of time It's decision-making

Bad decision-making gets you in bad situations and by the way people that go off the path and and then they say you know what I screwed up I did the wrong thing and I'm gonna now fix it that's you don't see people like that that are homeless you don't see people like that that are addicted to drugs because they take responsibility and they say okay I made this mistake I didn't do the right things I need to get fixed and they fix it whereas someone that's says oh it's my parents fault and it's my boyfriend's fault and it's my girlfriend's fault and it's my old boss's fault and it's my pusher's fault and whoever you want to blame it's if it's not your fault you don't have you don't fix the problem you don't take ownership of the problem you don't fix it on a personal level and that's problematic yeah your parents were teachers huh yes both teachers yeah makes that

there's a lot of it seems like there's a lot of similarities with teachers and then parents, right? Because it's both like, you're both trying to guide these young minds. Oh, by the way, kids, teenagers, whatever, yeah, they can't really have, you know, I say they don't understand the correlation between, like, their actions now and whatever. They kind of can't because that part of their brain isn't developed yet. It's the front part. Frontal, whatever.

What's called the front part? That sounds technical. The front part. It's a medical term. But it tends to. average or whatever, developed by age 25. That's why I said, 25. Okay.

So that's typically, you know, give or take, when it's done developing. So, yeah, before that, and it's basically the decision making like, okay, what I, just what you said, what I do now affects the future. And you know how like now you're like, oh, when you do something, you can almost feel the payoff in the future. It's almost like that. You understand it. Now, back then you couldn't.

That's why these colleges, when you go to college at 18 or 17 in my case, they all these credit card little credit card pushers they'll just post stuff outside of your dorm room and be like hey unsecured I don't even know what unsecured means by the way at this time $300 limit just credits free money it's free money that's how they do

all you got to do is fill out this thing and everyone of course of course I don't know what that means I'll pay it back away later so they get you like that but nonetheless yeah so they don't have that part of their brain they don't know yeah so the answer is that I'm kind of drawing from

my childhood. So I had these two teachers, right? One teacher's name was Mr. Tokita, Japanese guy. And he was like a little samurai ninja guy. He didn't really talk that much, like outside of the classroom. And when he'd talk in the classroom,

it was all deliberate stuff. There was no small talk. It was really rigid. We had a quiz every single Friday, every single Friday. Ten questions. Real short quiz about the weak stuff. His little lecture on the board was like,

boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I think he'd even underline the key point. You know so you'd know there was it there was no like hey read this and I'm gonna you know mystery no mystery this is what you're gonna be done he underline the key points and you got to know those key points at the end of the week test every week Boom you take or quiz it's a quiz then there's a test on all this stuff whatever But you were not ill equipped for these tests you knew as long as you were showing up pain Intentia you knew so either you did it or you didn't do it you know so it was and there was no like hey guys

nothing like you you knew what to expect this guy was so consistent with every, every little thing, all the way down to the, like, if you call them Tokita, because sometimes that's how, you know, when you get real chummy with the teachers, just in general, if you're that kind of person, you won't say Mr. or Mrs. Right? So, every once in a while you'd be like, hey, I don't know, Smith, we'll just say if the teacher's name was Mrs. Smith. He'd be like, hey, Smith, and, you know, it's a kind of chummy relationship.

So one time, I might have been this girl crassie. Anyway, he goes, oh, Toquita, because she liked him. I mean, he was a likable guy, that's the thing. But just really consistent and rigid, like a ninja or something. And they were like, hey, Toquita, and ask a question. And he didn't get mad. Nothing like that. He just answers the question.

Real stoic, this answers the question. And as he's shuffling his papers like this, just real. Like, this guy was so cold, cold as ice guy. He goes like this. Boom, he answers the question. And he goes, and that's Mr. Tokita. And then he just continues on, right? And he wants like, dang, that was fucking awesome.

But anyway I did the best in that class because it was one of those things that it was so consistent Like there was no room for slack if you slacked off. It was really apparent discipline equals freedom. Yeah, you know But he wasn't the kind like he wouldn't yell at you It wasn't that I don't yell Yeah So discipline equals freedom you don't need to yell when you when people understand expectations Yeah, need to yell and the thing and you're like this too where you're real consistent

That's a thing too because you know sometimes let's say you're real rigid one week and then the next week. Oh, yeah, that's bad. Or let's say you're really rigid like the whole year. And then, I don't know, you're not, you're feeling, I don't know, you're hung over or something. I don't know, you partied or something. You come to class as the teacher, by the way. And then you're not as rigid that day.

Oh, there's the little, there's the little chink in your, in your armor there. And they'll kind of start to exploit it, these kids, which brings me to my second teacher. I'm not going to say his name. It was in seventh grade, though, where this guy was just all over the place. Super easy to take advantage of this guy who's a music teacher. Wait, was he a music? Yeah, I think so. I don't know.

I forget. But super easy to take advantage of this guy. The kind of like, he'd lose his cool all the time. And, you know, it was just funny to see him react a lot of the time, right? And the thing is he didn't start like that. He started just super nice. Just like, hey, the kind of like people would run over him and he'd be like, hey, you know, we don't have to. He was just super nice, but it wasn't consistent with anything.

Then after a while, I think it was after like a few years. I hear that he's like really mean now. Yeah. Like he loses his temper all the time. Yeah. I'm like, what the heck? It goes, it goes back to just discipline equals freedom, right? And if you would have held the line in the beginning and said, no, no, you don't act like that in here.

Stop. Then if he would have stopped at the minimal or at this small action that was bad, this small bad behavior, if he tightened that up, then it would never get to bid. Then he doesn't have to lose his temper and get crazy. And I'm sure he's a nice guy. I'm sure he's a positive guy. He had the highest hopes and expectations going back to the earlier subject. He had the really high hopes that everyone's just going to be in here to learn and open their minds. And it's like, no, these kids are in here to shoot spitballs and stick pencils into the back of the person sitting in front of them.

Right? That's sort of it. Exactly. Yeah. That's sort of it. And when you realize that, then you don't allow that minimal behavior. And then they just don't get totally out of control. Yeah.

Man, that's hard work being a teacher very much so very much so because again like because It goes back to that thing man where where you only have like what an hour or something With the 45 minutes yeah in a day and that's only for like five days maximum for the week Sometimes less you know if you got holidays or whatever and then they go home or wherever and then they get their influences You know boom boom as they grow up then they come back to your class with all that influence and it's like what what now you know And you got to kind of find a way as a teacher not only to like get through to them just person to person But you got to get them all this material and if they don't like that material. Oh man, that's yet another task, you know So again man if you have that that structure in place and it's consistent and they know what to expect that's going to help because they have this scaffolding

They don't know how to make this you know I got asked one time by a teacher It's kind of a similar question. You know I've done everything to get through to this person. They're just not they're just not getting in the game What do I do now? I was like try a different way Try a different way you know you didn't get through to them that way try to different way How can you get through to them now just like as a boss as a leader as a platoon commander? If you've tried every single possible different way and you've got someone that just cannot do it or does not want to do it and they're negatively affecting everyone else then it's your responsibility as a leader to get rid of them Get rid of them and had another conversation with a teacher one time who had another conversation with a teacher one time who has

had kicked someone out of her school for fighting. And I, I, and, and this, this person's a great person, and a friend of mine, she kicked someone out of the school. And we met at a, at a dinner. And we were just talking and I said, oh, how's everything going? She goes, well, you know, I just kicked this person out of school. And I was like, oh, what's the situation? And she's, well, you know, it's this guy, this kid.

And he's been a good kid. He doesn't come from a great home. But he got into a fight and he hid another kid and I just have no we can't have that at school at all and so me being a jerk I was like oh so you just destroyed his his life basically and she and you know and she's like what do you mean I go well if the kid doesn't have much of a home and he's not coming from a great family the only thing he has is your school and if you don't allow him in school now you kicked him out where's he gonna end up I go did you did you already open up a space warm in prison somewhere because that's where he's headed and I was just I was I was being a total jerk but I didn't really realize that until I saw her

like getting emotional and I was like oh I'm sorry and and so then we had the conversation and what was great was we talked and and we went through this conversation and because what I was saying even though I was being a jerk about it even though I was being kind of I don't know I wasn't being sarcastic I was just being really really offensive because she's a friend you know and we that's just how I am like one of your seal team yeah yeah exactly treating her like another seal but then we talked and I said look but even though I'm I don't mean to be a jerk I'm I'm telling like what I believe to be the truth cracking but

you're you have a great school you have this great opportunity for these kids and this kid who has been well-behaved was oh and this was the other critical part the kid that he got in a fight with the kid that he punched he soccer punched the guy not soccer punch but through the first punch the other kid was the class jerk the class picking on people and always misbehaving that kid didn't get kicked out of the school he wasn't going to get kicked out of the school because he didn't actually get involved in the physical violence. Yeah.

And so then, and I told her that to, I said, look, you got one kid that he finally broke mentally. And you got another kid that just knows how to push people's buttons. And he wanted him to hit him. And now you're kicking the kid out that actually probably should have done what he did. That kid probably deserved to get punched in the face. And anyways, after this long conversation, you know, she went back. And the other key little thing that we talked about was I, I said,

It's okay for you as a leader to say hey look I made a mistake You know what I'm not kicking him out of the school you know why because this other kid acted like a jerk This other kid harassed him this other kid did these other kid things and this child has been a well-behaved child and he lost his temper and that's human and we're gonna keep him in the school and she did that so My point is it's a hard job. Yeah, and And yeah, that's my point big time man and that's and that's another yet yet Another thing that I think we got to balance this in regular society too, but it's so this kid right for example your example where the kid punch the gut. So boom, we have this incident.

So what do you do though, right? It's like, that's a problem. As far as problem solving goes, you don't punish the kid. You evaluate what happened, and then you essentially help the kid so he doesn't punch him. Right. Like some people are like,

hey, we got to punish this kid somehow. Give him detention or something. And does that solve the problem? Maybe, yeah, maybe we actually teach someone to control their emotions. Exactly right. Like, why'd you punch him? Oh, because this guy did this.

Okay, there's another problem, by the way. So we got to teach this. kid to stop messing around in that way, you know, and then we got to teach this kid, okay, if you get, you get messed around. You're right. And sometimes the only way some kids learn a lesson is by being severely punished, kicked out of a school, whatever, you know, expelled or something like that. But most cases, what most cases was that really teach them?

That that school doesn't care about them, right? So that's a tough situation. You know, interestingly, in Way of the Warrior kid, the next book that's coming out, sure. The whole, and I'm not going to. going to give the whole story away, but the, the opening chapter, young Mark is in the principal's office. And he's in the principal's office because he threw a paper mache pumpkin at another kid's head. Why did he do it? Because he was frustrated because he got mad because the kid was

picking on him continually, verbalizing verbal abuse. And finally, Mark just got mad and he hucked a paper Meshay pumpkin at the kid's head it bounced off the kid's head and hit and hit miss carpenter right the face too so he got sent to the office but anyways and but the point is where I what the reason I did that is because kids that are 11 years old they still lose their temper they haven't learned to control their temper yet and so one of the themes in the new warrior kid book is that a warrior has to learn to control their temper and control their emotions yeah the lessons that we're talking about right now yeah interestingly enough so thanks to the teachers out there big time man because man as a teet and I have never been a teacher

obviously but I mean just even halfway imagining it man you kind of care about like these kids but you care about them all so and then you have all this the whole spectrum of them you have the kid who's like ooh the teacher's pet as far as the other kids are concerned but meanwhile you love that kid because man he's picking up what you're putting down and he's listening he's giving you apples and whatnot then you have on the other side you have the one that that won't listen to anything disrupting your class you know but you want to That kid like of course you wanted to leave you like stop messing up my whole thing but you want to be successful

Yeah man because like when you you know how you teach someone something and you see him use it? Oh man, that's the best as any kind of Capacity that you know as far as the role that you play like in Jiu Jitsu or something like that Even like another adult. This is all the same right actually I think kids well there's like there's a fundamental human characteristic. I believe that makes you want to help other people Yeah It feels like your influence like living on or something. Yeah, something. I don't know. Maybe.

But man, so it's like, it's like yet that's yet another thing you got to deal with as a teacher, you know? Because you're committed, man. It's like, crazy to tell. Anyway. Next question. Next question.

I'm a firefighter. Speaking of which. I'm a firefighter in Australia. And in the time I've been in this job, I've been several jobs that were very challenging. I've entered burning homes to extinguish fires and search for residents and their pets. I've searched for victims during times of flood

and help people evacuate their homes in times of natural disasters. I've attended car crashes and cut victims from vehicles and pulled deceased people from others. I also know that I'm not alone. I am aware of the fact that while I've been doing this, countless firefighters around the globe who are thousands of times braver than me

and have done things that the vast majority of the population would not be capable of. And that doesn't even acknowledge the courage of our police and paramedics and our military who step up day after day to do what has to be done because of if not me, then who? My question is this. How do you suggest those in the front line deal with the trivial issues at home? I attended a very severe car accident. I had on collision with a school bus full of children and another car. Thankfully, all the children in the school bus were okay, but it took us three hours to cut the driver from the car.

and she had very serious injuries and was airlifted to a hospital. When I got home that night, I was confronted by an upset girlfriend who wanted to talk about some extraordinarily trivial issue, which I struggled to listen to. The whole time she was talking, I just kept thinking about the job and making sure I'd done everything I possibly could have for the driver. But I was also aware of the fact that my fiancé's problems are important to her. so I need to be supportive. I listen for as long as I could.

I listened for as long as I could. Then unfortunately, I just said, your day could have been a lot worse. No one spent three hours cutting you out of a car, so be thankful. I know I can't be alone on this. I know police, paramedics in the military would be suffering the same thing.

How do you suggest is the best way to deal with this? Check. So it was always always my goal to protect my family from darkness and evil in the world that includes these kind of things you want to shield them from this now this doesn't mean to keep them oblivious you don't want them thinking that the the world that you've created for them that's well protected and secure you don't want them thinking that that's the way the whole world is You don't want them thinking that but I sure didn't throw this kind of stuff at my family on a regular basis

But I took pride and I think that that's the answer here take pride in Letting your family or your loved ones live in worlds where their Trivial issues are the most important thing in their world the most impactful thing in the world for them Okay, so that's that's number one and if you get yourself a little bit of Of satisfaction every time your your significant other Complains that um you know the the ice machine isn't really working up to full speed. It's really horrible Right you should you should be proud think of yourself. Yeah, well, you know what? Let me let me take a look at it Maybe there's a kink in the water line. I don't know, but we'll try and get that thing up to speed

So you can have cold drinks Because that's where I want your world to be Right? I want you to have plenty of ice Yeah, yeah So for your drinks or whatever So that's that's it if you can if you can put your your family in that kind of a Protected environment you should be proud of it and you should be and the way they indicate that to you They don't say hey, thank you for letting me live in a protected environment

They don't say that to you They're in an environment. They don't even know that they're in it Yeah, the way they let you know that they're in that environment is when they when they complain about trivial things So that's number one the other thing is try and try and See things from other people's perspectives You know in in This case

My my wife's right? My wife would say things is a big deal to her and for her It was a big deal and like I just said I wanted it to be a big deal for her and also I'll tell you what We're talking about firefighters and military and police but this goes to all Non-uniformed jobs as well if if you can leave your work at work because you think some you know every job there's stresses at every job and you're out there grinding and you're in trouble with the boss or you're trying to get a project figured out and you've got all the stress coming down on you or you've lost money or you've got a huge deal on the table whatever the case may be if you can isolate your family from that as much as you can and I'm not saying to a two an unhealthy level where you're just not telling them what's going on but bear the burden man bear the burden of that you that you hold to protect your family so yeah um that's what i think that's what i think we we do our best to protect our family and our loved ones from the darkness the pressure

the stress the evil in the world again you don't make them oblivious you don't disconnect from them in order to do that, but you shield them from it and you bear the burden yourself so that they don't have to bear it as much. Again, you don't want your kids growing up to be spoiled. You don't want your wife to be saying, if I don't get of a latte this morning, I will absolutely not even.

Right? You don't want to be married to that person. Yeah, not even. I did that pretty good, didn't I? My middle daughter is the funniest person ever. she can do all these crazy, I'm stealing her material right there. Because she'll do that. She'll say, she'll say, that is so, oh my God, it's not even.

You know, and she's kidding, because she knows that there's human beings like that in the world that say not even. There's nothing at the end of it. Yeah, I've never heard that. I think that might be something new. That's not even, you know. I've heard I can't even. Oh, I can't even. Oh, it's the same thing.

Same thing. Yeah, yeah, some updated new age stuff. Yeah, it's just a different angle on it. But yeah, hey, thanks for, thanks for doing all that hard work, man. That's awesome. I know I see firefighters, police officers, military people all the time. I hear from all the time. And, yeah, try and shield your family as much as you can.

Don't drag them down the, down into the darkness with you. Yeah, it seems like a good way. And take pride in it. That's what I was going to, exactly what I was going to say. It's like take pride in, it's like embracing the role as like the captain kind of thing. Yeah. You know, where it's like, yeah, you know, wife's mad about. You know, they put cream in her coffee, and she asked for non-fat milk.

That's from Seinfeld, by the way. And, you know, whatever, and she's pissed. And meanwhile, you know, you just pulled a lady out for three hours, by the way, a bus and car crash, head-on collision. So, you know, you embrace the role. It's like, okay, you know, boom, I'm dealing. One second I'm dealing with straight up life and death and kids and accidents and tragedy. And then one second later, I'm dealing with essentially nothing. right but it's my wife's feelings that's what I'm dealing with my wife's feeling I'm not dealing

with non-fat milk versus cream I'm not dealing with that I'm dealing with my wife's feelings and that's part of the job too so you can't just be like hey I'm gonna do my job one second I'm do my job really good and the next second I'm not gonna do it so good you can't do that embrace the role this the guy who gets the job done regards how big how small so so as a husband this is where I can speak from because I've been a husband for eight years, successfully, because I'm currently a husband too. So there'd be,

you know how like people have little things? I'll have to check with her on me. Please, please check for me too because I need that info. Anyway, but so, you know how, you know people, they'll tell you something and then you'll be like, wait, what did you mean by that?

You're kind of offended? Like, are you kind of digging at me or something like that? You know, like that kind of stuff. even though you know kind of they were, right? Like that was a little passive aggressive, little comment kind of thing. So every once in a while,

when I'd experience that, not to say it happens all the time, but if it ever happened, what I'd do to kind of combat the anger? Because, bro, I'm the kind of where like, if there's like an issue. So you're saying passive aggressive from your wife? Yes.

And what you would do to combat the anger would be? It would be. I'm trying to move this story long. Embracing. No, it's relevant to this, though, and important it. I think it helps. It totally helps where I embrace the role of the I don't know for lack of better than the captain

You know embrace the role like captain where sure she's passive aggressive Whatever you know maybe all over time I'll start to understand more whatever But so I I I I'm like Invision myself as Superman for and her passive aggressive comments are bullets and they were just bouncing off of me just like bullets off Superman Yeah, that's cool

That's cool until the fact that if you don't react and she's gonna escalate She wants some kind of reaction out of you yeah so sometimes you have to give them some kind of reaction yeah otherwise they'll continue to escalate right to a point where you do react yes yeah so I've learned that a while ago yeah no reaction is is is not always good right so and I don't you got to say you got to say you got to say oh that bullet hurt oh um yeah I should be a little more careful yeah bullets are flying around that's wow I need to be a little bit more you know careful of these bullets they can really hurt me Right, but be careful.

But see how your tone and stuff is like there's no anger there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so that's what I meant. It's just to combat the anger. Not the problem solving thing. That's a whole other thing as far as I'm concerned. Like if she's passive aggressive or mad about, I don't know, because I put the dish away when it was wet and, you know,

before I dried it away. That's not what it was, by the way. But I'm just saying if it's just, that's a whole different thing. So if I anger-wise, the bullets bounce off of me, boom, I don't get angry. then I can start addressing those issues, the ones that you're talking about. But I mean to combat the straight up anger. Yeah, keep your emotions in check.

Yeah. Stifling. Like her insults are bouncing off me like Superman. It helped sometimes. Most of the time. All right. Next question. Jocko.

I'm leading a project that involves a few of my team members and about 10 other team members from other functions. The project has high visibility in the large organization over 10 billion in revenue that I work for. so the pressure to execute is high. We have had some issues with cross-functional team members meeting their deliverables to keep the project on path, but we're pushing, sometimes dragging everyone along to make things happen. Recently, on a formal review with the leadership team, the question was asked,

why is this project behind? I'm a firm believer in providing protection for your team, so my response was, there are excuses, but to be honest, they're just excuses. so we're doing everything we can to get it back on track. Trying to take the brunt of the performance miss on my shoulders, no additional comments were made in that meeting and it ended. My boss was on the call and pulled me aside the next day

and voiced his opinion that I should not hesitate to call out the lack of performance on the other functional team members. His thought is that doing so does not allow the leadership to coach, mentor, and or fix the issues correctly. I understand this logic, but I don't feel that, True leaders point fingers or throw others under the bus your thoughts would be appreciated Okay, so first of all Your boss has a little bit of a point, but it's but it's also there's some limitations to it number one

You know our goal as a leader is to build relationships with people accomplish the mission Et cetera, et cetera So if if we if we start just calling people out in front of a senior leadership on a call, well, are you forming a good relationship with people? The answer is no. You're actually making them mad and they're saying the first thing they're going to do when you call them out is call you up as soon as the call ends and they're going to say, dude, why don't you tell me that? Why are you telling me this in front of the boss? So here's the deal. You should not ever have to throw someone under the bus without plenty of warning, right? Without plenty of them to know and expect and be

prepared with an answer that's what you should be doing it's kind of like that escalation of counseling that I talk about like you start off by just saying hey man You were late you know what's up and you go all the way to like okay if you're late again and there's a whole Slow escalation or depending on how fast you need to get it done but with this one it's the same thing you say hey echo you know you're you're part of the project well do you need help right now? What's going on? You don't seem up to speed and then it then we escalate to hey echo you just missed another you know target date This is the second target date you've missed we get we got a problem And then it's hey echo do you not have the sports you need what do you need because this isn't working out and then it's look the only way I'm going to be able to do this we got to bring us up to the boss I think you need more people and that's another important thing is is you frame it you frame it in such a way That it's not hurting them but it's actually helping them so I might say on the call hey you know

Alpha team is working really hard but they need more X Y and Z to get the job done so you know I think we should give Echo and Alpha team more X Y and Z to get the job done so you know I think we should give Echo and Alpha team more X Y and Z okay because he missed a date and and I know they're working hard or you say you know I think we need more people allocated over to alpha team I think they've been over tasked and they could use some support so let's give them some more people or you can even say I'm moving two people from my team over to alpha team temporarily to give them some additional capacity over there because their task is more demanding than what I've been assigned so all of those things are letting everyone know bringing the problem to the attention of the of the group so that now you say actually jocco here's what's going on i don't need two more people i need four more people or you know you say

okay um hey i don't need anyone else if you're one of those people the ego gets in the way and you say i don't need anyone else and you'll say okay well you miss two time marks you miss two you know dates well i don't need any more people okay okay well let's see if you can if you can make this next date then i guess you Don't but if you miss another day well then I guess you need more people so we we move through it like that so yeah You do have to discuss things you can do you can discuss these things you can bring them up in a way that they are not offensive To two people they don't throw them under the bus but they do however Signify that the bus is around and that if we aren't careful you might get hit by the bus and you got to give people plenty of warning It's the same thing with same thing I've talked about in the past with skipping the chain of command you know you

You shouldn't be skipping the chain of command unless you've given so much warning and you do it in such a way that You know, they actually know it's going to happen. They expect it's going to happen. They kind of agree with you So be careful with those things again if someone's doing something immorally legal Unethical and you skip the chain of command because you've already tried to solve with them and they're not doing it Well, then you might have to just go get some Because if you're culpable if you don't So form good relationships with people don't form and antagonistic relationships you know I just had a conversation with a guy when I was in in Boston

Similar situation, but you know he he he was saying he there was a situation he was in And what he said was politically It was he didn't want to address it because politically if he dressed it it might explode and I said well if it if the if it addressed if you address the if you address the situation It's like a classic case I know how to do this more efficiently This experienced person doesn't want to try my method Okay, and I said, well, why don't you present him with the method and say, you know, hey, here's how we should do this. And he says, no, I don't want to do that because the person that I want to get to use the new method is really close friends with the boss. And if I form that bad relationship, it's going to be bad. And I go, would that affect your overall mission, your ability to do the mission to have bad relationships, not only with your immediate boss, but with your boss's boss? And he's like, yes, it would. And I go, then it doesn't sound like a good plan. There you go. There's your answer. Because even. Even. though you have a better method and you might say like a direct a person with a direct train of thought mindset would say no you go you tell the boss's boss that this is

the method and we're gonna be more efficient if we do it this way well now you've just exploded a bomb on yourself and it's gonna be bad so I gave him the classic hey why don't you say listen I think I've thought of a new method I think we might be able to get some efficiencies out of it but since I'm not as experienced and don't know the systems as well as you do I would love to get your feedback on how it works I think that you're the only one that could really know how to do this concierge so experienced and smart and brilliant all that stuff and awesome and you try and feed him some of the new methods so that he can try it and either say yeah this stuff's pretty good or

you know what there's some things that you didn't realize young buck and we got to get him fixed so check try and form relationships positive relationships not antagonistic relationships. If you throw people under the bus, you're not forming good relationships. Check. Especially that surprise one. That's rough. Dang. Yeah. Next question. To give you a little backstory, I tried my first jujitsu class last week, and during the rolling part of the class, happened to get matched up with another white belt who has been going to the gym for over a year. During the roll, I got thrashed around a bit and tap to what I've been told was called a cross-collar choke.

I ended up getting gey burns on my neck and my face. The game right there. As well as getting my lip split. Having trained Muay Thai and sparred for a couple of years, I'm used to physical pain, and that didn't exactly bother me. What did bother me was marks that were left on my face, which in addition to just not looking good, I can't have, because my job requires that I meet with clients,

face-to-face, and these clients, might make judgments and assume I was in a street fight. I also think the white belt I was rolling with went a little too hard on me, but I don't know enough about Jiu-Jitsu to determine whether or not people go full speed every role. I know that in Muayai in boxing, normally we try to tone down the intensity level for newbies, especially the first time they spar. So my questions are, one, does Jiu-Jitsu normally leave you with lots of marks or scrapes on your face? I don't mind occasionally getting them

but can't go home with them after every class. That's it. Or first question. Second question. Do people normally go full speed in rolling? And if not, how do I get him to stop without sounding like a giant wimp? Okay. So number one,

does BJJ normally leave you with lots of marks to scrapes on your face? The answer is no, not normally. Will you occasionally? Yes. You will actually, you will get dinged up. You'll get black eyes. You'll split your lip. You'll have Ghee Barnes on your face. Yeah, it's going to happen.

But it's not regular. Yeah. It's not regular. It's what do you think? Once every three weeks. On your face and neck? Yeah, once every three weeks. Once every three weeks.

Maybe four weeks. Yeah, once a month you have something visible while you're wearing a suit presenting to clients. Given the normal amount of training, you know, like if you're straight up competitive, you know, mode two times a day okay well then it does more of course then yeah it's more but normal training Yeah, and then the next question is do people normally go full speed in rolling and if not how do I get him to stop without sounding like a giant wimp So this is actually funny because if you think about it think about this He's kind of complaining in a way that the other person was going too hard right? Yes and yet He didn't tap to this until his face was scraped and got thrashed around. So what I'm saying is

It takes two people to escalate a situation and without knowing it he escalated the situation because he resisted as hard as he could he's only been training for a day and he's going to there fighting like crazy instead of just relaxing and being like hey, you know I've only been I've never trained before. Oh, you're gonna choke me out cool. Yeah, you know instead of learning and relaxing You allow yourself to get caught up in the primal instinct of fighting for your life, which is what happens when people start juditsu. The primal instinct takes over. And it's also ego and the will to win. It takes over. And they just want to go so hard. And they can't believe that this little guy's joking me. They're not going to let it happen.

So that is actually your ego. And it's also your ego. And I tell people all the time, one of the main reasons people get hurt. in Jiu-jitsu is because of ego you either don't tap number one which is just stupid or You you you don't say no to rolling with people that you know you shouldn't roll with That's it and when I say don't tap it's like it has to do with with the way you're rolling to right? I mean if you're just gonna fight everything so super hard Because you want to win well then you're gonna end up having a much higher chance of getting injured So I fall into that sometimes too

You know if I'm it like I had a hurt knee the other day and you know maybe like a month ago my knee was a little hurt and I was rolling but I hadn't been doing a lot of stand-up and all of a sudden I was escalating with whoever We're like andy or someone and all of a sudden I was standing and I didn't want to give up the Pazish right? Yeah, and as I'm standing there. I'm like oh this is your ego right now you you have no reason to sit here and fight on the feet where your where your knee is actually bothering you and Mm-hmm. Just don't be an idiot and just pull a guard. Mm-hmm. And so, no big deal, right?

Okay, pull guard. It's whatever. Did you pull a guard? I did, yeah, because I was realized I was being stupid. Mm-hmm. And if I'm, there I am, I've been healing and I'm almost good to go. And now I'm going to jeopardize it because I just, I want to stand up and get some, right? I want to win.

Stupid. Yeah. Stupid. So that is what you have to do. You have to put your ego and check, and that is a huge part of J-Jitsu. That's one of the things that makes Jiu-Jitsu so impactful. It's so humbling. You're,

Can't withstand it and despite how hard you fought against this guy in this question That guy was still gonna tap you out you didn't stand a chance you didn't stand a chance Yeah my first class versus a guy who'd been rolling for over a year over a year Yeah, you don't stand a chance you don't stand a chance you don't so what what you want to do is you want to learn So put your ego aside relax Talk and if you get good someone that's going so you don't want to sound like a wimp That's what gets you hurt what's cool is When somebody's 58 years old and they're on the mat and some some 22 year old blue belt that weighs 80 pounds more than them says,

Hey, you want to roll? And the older dude says, no, man, I'm good. I'm not rolling with you because their ego is in check. Yeah. And they realize that's not going to get them anywhere. Yeah. Rolling with this big idiot. Yeah.

That's not going to get him anywhere. So they're saying, no, I don't want to roll with you. Their ego is fine. They get, they're over it. Yeah. So put your ego in check. You won't get marked up a lot. and people people will go full speed if you're going full speed that's the answer the harder you go

the harder the other person's going you want to go in there and get to a level seven death match with every person you roll with you're going to get them you're going to get them especially with especially with people that are around your level yeah because if the person's a purple belt or a brown belt or a black belt you can go nuts on them it doesn't even matter to them they're just going to be laughing at you although you can you can offend them and I've seen some black belts and some good jujit jujitsu practitioners that get offended if someone attacks them with fury like they have a chance and you go okay cool you want to be like that i'm going to smash you and and i've done that from time to time you know where someone just they're in there they're like they think it's their day or whatever

and they think they're going to get you yeah and you go oh you're not going to get me but now you've now you're going to get god yeah it's not going to be fun yeah that tends to happen though not if you're well within the confines of just Jiu-Jitsu stuff like um but if you start to drift towards the edges of etiquette so like let's say like if I'm if you know I'm gonna spar with you and today is my day and

I start stiff arming you hard and doing that kind of stuff stuff that's it's legal but it's like yeah for sure you shouldn't you know it's like that kind of stuff that'll make a higher belt mad I think well and you you are correct you are correct just someone going just someone going level nine psycho yeah instead of just being oh you you want a roll Hey, cool. Hey, we're going to use strength.

I get that. I get that. We're going to use strength. That's the way it works. That's part of the game. That's why we work out, right? Yeah. I get that we're going to go fast.

I get that. That's cool. But you want to just go level nine psycho? Cool. That's not going to work out good. Yeah. Just cruise, man. Have a good time.

Yeah. Nothing wrong with that. I'm a huge advocate of cruising for sure. But I'm, I support, like, guys going hard. For sure. Even like young guys, I mean, like where this guy. But the thing is. is this guy is saying how does he stop it yeah the way you stop it is by relaxing exactly yeah yeah

yeah you know and i go hard yeah right yeah i go i yes you're right yeah i mean i train hard for sure but um like if i don't know you yeah and you want to just go level nine cool we'll go level nine but you know yeah it's all it's all the the spectrum of of jiu jitsu and also i get it though like you know, he doesn't want marks all over his face all the time for, I mean, to me, you don't even have to say because of work, you just say, I don't want marks all over my neck and my face all the time, you know? That's work because that's actually what I do want. It's cool, but you know how like, okay, so I don't wear a mouthpiece anymore, so every once

in a great while, like I'll bite my tongue on the side sucks. And then you can't eat for a few days, not that good, yeah, it's, or you ever get your jaw? You're kind of exaggerating, but. You can't eat for a few days, no, it's hurts to eat ketchup. Yes. Next question. Salad with Italian dressing really hurts. Stings.

Yeah. That's more right. You're right. Eat percol. That's exaggerating. But, or if you get like a jaw, like this is what I'll get, my common one. You'll get your jaw whacked. Like by a knee or something, incidental suck.

Yeah. So you can't bite down on that side. Yeah. I don't like that. Yeah. So you kind of can't eat for like a week. You got to drink through a straw. Anyway.

But so yeah, I get it. But just like how you said, man, it's that ego. And I'm insubes. support of ego it's kind of what gives Jiu Jiu Jitsu and doing Jiu Jitsu it's luster really the guy like Like what if I roll with you and I tap you out But you were not going hard at all

I don't want to do that I'd rather get tapped out by you Every single time than tap you out when you weren't going hard As far as like my jiu jiu jitsu Yeah journey kind of thing Yeah but but at the same time like bro if you don't want that beef If you don't want to go with some big guy going hard Brad just say sorry bro I mean no disrespe the main concern is not disrespecting the guy like you know how you I've asked people to

roll and I know I'm maybe a little bit more big or whatever than like the average guy right so I'll ask someone to roll and they they won't even answer they'll just look away straight up look away and I'm like okay I really got to kind of understand okay maybe they just don't want that beef and they don't know how to say it to me respectfully you know I've never had anyone like look away that's weird yeah I had a time you asked them I okay I I asked a guy to roll and he acted like he didn't hear me and looked away. I went to the next guy of standing up to maybe that kind of helped, didn't help my situation, but whatever.

I asked the guy right next to him. Same exact thing. He acted like, oh, he was kind of in a conversation. And then all I mean, I got a little bit frustrated. I said, so no one's rolling here. That's what I said. So that's what we're doing. Everyone's saying that no one's wrong.

And then like someone rolling with me, I think, whatever was a little while ago. Dang, the intimidator. No, but here's the thing, here's the thing. Of course, at the time, it's a little bit frustrating, and this is kind of part of the point, where if they didn't want to roll, because maybe whatever, I was too big, and they were, like, small or something like that,

then you can tell the guy, hey, respectfully, like, I don't want to roll with you. I fear injury, I fear whatever, I fear marks on my face or whatever. No problem. I dig it, and I understand. Even if there's no one else to roll with it. But you're saying have the respect

to tell you the truth. That's the thing that you need the little pump of like they're scared of you Ah Wouldn't that be the opposite though? Nonetheless That's that's the thing though Like you that's what you have to in my opinion you have to address it's like and the other thing The other thing about this and I because I may have the that being said like if someone wants to roll with you

If you're a healthy human being man get it on that's you know what I'm saying? That's what I was saying When that happened I get it if you have a situation And this is one that I need to I always have to watch out for like if I have a let's say I'm injured and Let's say I normally do 10 rounds nine rounds eight rounds like that's my normal training And and when I'm injured I'll be like okay I'm only gonna do like four rounds I'm only gonna do five rounds but then someone's like let's get one more Yeah and that's the hardest thing for me is to say No because my instinct all the time is like oh someone wants to roll let's do it

Let's do it. Yeah, let's get it on that's good with me let's get it on Yeah, and so And I Yeah again This is all part of it and to and this is a total opinion or Philosophy or whatever But yeah that's how it should be That's what I think too. That's how it should be

You know like if I ask you to roll and you're just sitting there During the rolling part of Of training and you're just sitting there essentially waiting for someone to ask you to roll Really that's what it is right You know and you'd like turn your head then why are you here? Like you're only gonna roll with you ask me to roll and I I was like hey man I got a tweak me I can't roll anymore today man no you're good with that fine yeah 100% you go home and like I jack that up as a winning yeah yeah that's what I would do 100%

but yes no I'm talking about being selective with who you roll like I won't roll with him because he'll tap me out I won't roll with him oh that's totally lame yeah he goes he goes hard and I'll get tired I don't want to roll with the toughest people yeah okay and again that's like your philosophy and I agree with that but if you're like being selective like that guy's too big and advanced, he might mess me up. Look, if you're concerned about actual injury, that's one thing. But if you're like, like, basically the situation that I explained I was in, and this is what I think, given all the information I kind of gathered from the situation,

they didn't want to roll with me because I was maybe, I don't know, big or intimidating. Were you higher belts than them? Yes. That's really weird then. No, but see, and that's what I thought too. I was like, well, maybe that's why are you here? If you're a lower belt, if you're a lower belt and you're smaller, you have absolutely nothing, no shame in getting tapped out by a big dude that's a higher belt than you. That's what I was saying.

Because I was talking to my brother and Greg about it. Did you do a breath check before you went in there or something? Maybe a ghee check. Maybe you just smelled really bad. No one wanted to roll with you. No, bro, because the fact is I did do those checks. I do them every single time. That's why I know.

But I talked to my brother and Greg about this. Yeah. I was like, I was trying to be understanding, you know, but at the first part of the conversation. With Greg Train? No. I don't think Greg was there at that time. Greg, you might underestimate Greg Train. You might be like, oh, just roll with this little guy.

No, you see his ears. You're like, I want that. I was talking to them like the next day or something. So they weren't there. But so Greg was saying the same thing as you. He was like, nah, you don't do that stuff. Why are you even here that? You know?

But Jay brought up a good point. He said, well, it doesn't matter why you think they should be there. They're there. They pay their membership. and they're there to learn jiu-jitsu. They have the right to train with whoever they want and they have the right to not train with whoever they don't want to train with. Jay Charles with the free will.

It's true. But that that very thing applies to this guy right here. Casting etiquette out the window with Jade Charles. Right, yeah. And that's kind of the counter argument which is legitimate by the way. There is the etiquette of the mats. It's like if you go to a 24-hour fitness gym or whatever, you're the guy, you're not, I mean, now nowadays they have a sign says re-rack your weights,

but there's certain things that you do, Just you just got to do for the etiquette you know you know Akbar do you know Akbar? Yeah, of course Okay, okay Akbar. Yeah, he's a beast right and he fights at 155 so he'd walk around at 170 strong yeah and not scared to not use not scared but you know he and I would have wars wars Total wars every single time mayhem and we had a packed always sure is that I will roll with you no matter what No matter what is going on I will roll I will I will I will I will I'll roll with you and it was always like he'd come in for for me it was you know I'd roll in from either work or I'd be done training with a bunch of people and then he'd show up or for him it was he'd be done with like a crazy sparring session Yeah, but yeah so I always I always told him no matter what I'll roll with you because and the reason I told him that is because I didn't want to roll with him

Yeah, because it was always freaking hardcore. It was always because he moved all the time and he was so strong and so fast and bony yeah, and his submissions are savage and And he was a guy that I was like I didn't want to roll with him and that's exactly why I made a pack with him I would always roll with him. You got to do it. You want that beat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Because it is a siege to roll with it and there's guys like that and you know like, you know, it's funny. You know Taylor and Andy by the way. They're like that if you make it like that. But if you don't, well, you might be different because you're kind of in a different position. But when you roll with them, if you start to go light, they'll just go light. The whole time, by the way. But if you turn out the heat, then they'll turn out the heat. But, yeah, that's a big thing where, like, some guys, man, you're like, okay, I got to get mentally ready to do this, you know, because they just bring a lot.

Yeah. And depends how your game matches up with them, too. You know, your game matches differently with different people. Yeah, that's true, too. Big time. But, yeah, this guy, you know, does it normally leave you with lots of marks? Not really. I think you're right.

And but the more, the more, you know, ambitious, hungry white belts you roll with with the ghee, yeah, the more marks you. And the more your ego forces you to fight them as if it's a death match, level nine. Yeah. Yeah. Very true. And then do people go full speed? You know, what, 50, 50 maybe? Well, actually, no.

Technically, it's awful speed, right? Yeah, yeah. Like, can you cruise? Like, I always do a warm up, one warm up round with Andy. No one else with Andy and Dean Dean won't do a warm-up round with me because that's when he attacks me with full strength Andy is awesome and we always do one round just to break a sweat we're just cruising and then the next round we'll go And when we go I mean we go I guess maybe there's some gradation at the high end of the spectrum and I will

Recognize a difference between that like let's say for instance you say Like I'll know I don't want to let Andy pass my guard today right like for for like a little I think he's got some new offensive move that I seen him been pulling off and I go if he gets this position on me today I'm gonna be in a real bad situation so he's not passed my guard so then he'll feel like I'm going harder Yeah, yeah, yeah because a lot of times you you pass my guard okay cool whatever now you're cross side now Trying to escape that what I mean? You know what I mean? It's it's it's like when you're competing we're when you're when someone is competing with you in Jiu jitzu Especially with the ghee it's so noticeable in a competition How hard they grip everything and how you can't get a millim

meter of movement that that you don't have to fight for yeah do you can't simulate that in you can't simulate that level of intensity yeah on the mats yeah that only comes in the training yeah yeah in the church on the training mats but in a way and i talk to greg about this a lot where it's kind of you know how like someone's being super stubborn like what the day i was talking to him this is what i was talking about like the guy who you get a sweep on them or something and they don't it's almost like they're not even fighting jiu jitsu anymore they just want to get to their feet instead end up because they don't want to play on the bottom right these guys so I was talking to him about that and that it was kind of frustrating and whatever and he was like hey bro like that's like that's kind of

his job yeah I was to like give you an accurate representation of somebody giving you trouble in whatever way yeah I was about to tell that's the same thing that jade charles said like if that guy if you allow that guy to get your feet then that's bad as a matter of fact I went through this cycle with dean where I realized that I wasn't giving dean a good representation because every time he had some Good guard passes that he would do from a little bit of a distance and and they were working well and then I said well why don't I just stand up? Yeah and so then I just started standing up and then all of a sudden he realized he couldn't give me that much space which messed up that guard pass which put us back to both getting better because we were improving the the techniques that we were each using so yeah sometimes Now have you ever rolled with someone that you they're just not doing they're they're they're just they're just they're just not engaging yeah right so they're not engaging yeah and that can be that can be a little bit frustrating yes and sometimes I do that yeah but that's part of an

overall strategy it is part of an overall strategy but yeah oh yeah 100% like the guy the guy who's not in because and again this goes back to why you're doing jiu-jitsu to begin with though so let's say if you if you're doing it like to to compete in a tournament a guy not engaging that's part of your training right there too yeah that is but if you're like you know if this is a fight and you know if you like all elements and let's say you're focusing on like a self-defense situation and the guy's not engaging then yeah you might as well be like I am yeah I might as well train with somebody you're right it is good you're right it is good because also I've gone with like some wrestlers

that they know they're let's say they're a purple belt and jitzu and they're doing a five minute round with you and they're just their goal is to just avoid and knock it tapped out and they're not really going to roll jiu jihitsu with you they're just going to avoid and not get tapped out they're not going to progress like oh they get the double leg now they're in your guard they're going to sit there and hold your hips. Yeah. So, so they're gonna sit there. So for me,

what I have to do? I need to have some moves to get some out of that situation. Got to take some owner for that's though. Yeah, just like the guy who doesn't like tap some who's strong and doesn't tap,

you know? So he either forces you to like injure them or let go kind of thing. That's kind of the same thing where it's a weird dichotomy though because like what do you do now? Now it's kind of up to you. You know the guy,

okay, so if the guy doesn't tap, right? And you kind of get mad. I'm like, Deb, you're going to force me to injure you. You have to take that training as this realistic training where this guy is giving you a very accurate look. Where, sure, you can choose to injure them. Now it's on you.

You chose to injure him. Sure. And whatever you chose, you chose. Especially if he was giving you less of an option. Or you just let him go and understand that, yeah, I understand accurately. You've got to be honest with yourself, that I would have had that submission.

I could have injured him. But don't be all mad because, you know, You know, you should have tapped and give me that win in training, you know, like, don't do that. You know, yeah, you got to keep your mind. Wait, but you said, who cares? Come on, bro. Come on. I said that's your ego talking.

I know, but, but you care, though. I care. What if someone? If someone, because one time out, the reason I was talking to, well, I was talking to Greg, again, about it, about a guy was wrong with who didn't want to tap. And I was mad because he was forcing me to either injure him or he wasn't going to give me that, that win. In training. So what'd you do? I let him go But one time and it was a white belt. He started going hard. You know how this is just a white belt? Like what what submission was it? I'm talking about another story now. I told me okay, because I mean just I'm just saying like more the both okay. So the original story I'm talking that's talking you yet not tap into a Camero. Yeah, he was strong but um so maybe you didn't really have it Bro I had it bro it's I'm not weak either. That's the thing. So he's strong and I'm like okay. I

It's to hear, it's to hear, it's here. It didn't matter. I knew, I knew with certainty where it's like, okay, I'm going to have to injure the person now. And, you know, he didn't have, but Greg made a good point where it's like, that's his job. You know, he's giving you an accurate look of what it's like. So at the end of the day, sure, I could have chose to injure him. And then it's partially his fault. But the thing is, I can't account for whether it's his fault or not.

I'm accounting for what training I'm getting, by the way, what training I'm getting. Not come you know it's not a competition. It's not the street Switching stories I'll make it quick to it was a white belt I was wrong with he was going nuts And I took it personal back to what we were talking about earlier What belt were you at this time? Purple so I was taking it personal I was like well how dare you Try to go nuts on me like just doing stuff it was all within the confines of etiquette But he was going a little bit too hard right

Later I found out that's just his style by the way which is a total innocent thing But at that time I was like no one's like okay you want to go hard I'm going to go hard and I injured him. Here's the thing. I injured him with a submission because I went to Kimura again. And not that I did it necessarily so hard that I hurt him, but he had a bad shoulder. Yeah. And I didn't really know.

He was like, no, no, it's okay. I had a bad shoulder to begin with. I don't think of it. I was going to say I've never injured anyone with a submission, but I have injured a couple people. One of them. Did I injure you? Yeah, my rib, man. Oh, yeah.

No, I injured myself. Yeah, yeah. That's just rolling. No, but I'm saying with a submission locked in, right? Yeah. The times I've done it is, I can only think of one off the top of my head, and it was a guy like you said, just had pre-existing shoulder injury that was like, that was like, ah, tap, and then I'm hurt, and then my shoulder's bad.

Right. Like, bro, you're rolling with me? Yeah. Tell me, and it was a black belt, you know? I was like, bro, come on. Not a guy had seen in a while. But I just go, you know, big, strong guy, got the career, and put it on, and all of a sudden he's like, ah, and injured.

Yeah. And I just said, bro, and it wasn't, I mean, I know the complete limitations of where it's injury or not. And I was not there yet at all. Yeah. And so he's like, yeah, I got a bad shoulder. I should have told you. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's actually why I felt really guilty because I did. I was like, oh, you want to go hard? So I did it hard. I wasn't trying to hurt him. But if he had a bad shoulder, which he did, I understand. It hurt him. And that doesn't surprise me that it hurt him. And I shouldn't have went that hard to begin with as far as like,

Going I know how to do Kimura good. Yeah and and just kind of to clarify my earlier statements like when somebody goes level nine on me It doesn't mean I'm like out till you know I just I just I just know I just go I just apply Level level. If they're at level nine I'm gonna apply level nine point one back to them and put them Yeah, and actually usually I do something to him that forces them to calm down like I'll just I'll get across side and be like Hmm Yeah, keep spazzing keep going nuts right now. I'm just gonna be here we're cruising. Yeah, yeah at level 9.1 but just level 9.1 but completely cruising. Because they can't move

they're fucking bucking and going crazy and getting nuts and then you're just sitting there. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I still feel guilty about that day. I'll never do it again. Next question. Hi, Jocco.

I have read your book, Extreme Ownership from cover to cover, and I learned a lot from it. And I have a question that bothers me. The question is, How can I be noticed by the people and get chosen for a leader? Okay Kind of a another question that I hear you know people get worried that if they're just Kind of putting their head down and working then they were not gonna get notice how don't get notice how they become a leader

Stop worrying about being noticed That's number one stop worrying about being noticed and keep working hard Stop worrying about being chosen as a leader If your goal is to get chosen as a leader if your goal is to get chosen as a leader leader no work hard actually work really hard and then put the team first so all these thoughts and efforts that you have around getting noticed and being recognized instead of having them focused on being recognized and being noticed put those thoughts on making the team successful wow right wow put the team

first that's what I'm saying right now it with this question you're actually putting yourself yourself Self-recognition above the team. So instead of Thinking about that think about how you can help the team win and the more of a team player you are The more people will want to work with you The more you help the team win the more people say I want you on my team and eventually They say okay, you know what? I want you to lead this team because you want this team to win so bad. We want you to leave this team

So that is what you do now that being said right there's always there's always a balance because I'm not saying that you sit back and just and keep your fingers crossed that if you work hard someone's gonna notice you now with this guy who's all worried about being noticed don't worry about being noticed you're gonna get noticed if you work out put your head down but there's some people that they're they're so they might be so humble that they're not gonna get noticed for what they're doing so how do you overcome that well this doesn't mean that you sit

back in your passive there's a and I'll tell you the best way to stand out or one of the best ways to stand out is volunteer volunteer for everything that comes up and then crush it the crappy jobs that no one wants volunteer for those things that's what I used to see you used to see the young new guys in the SEAL teams that's how you tell you get some crappy job you walk out to a group of guys going through training a bunch of platoon guys near you're Hey, I need three guys. There'd be like two new guys that would just be like by their hands would be up before you could get done saying the sentence And you just see the look on their face. What do they want to do? They just want to win and I love those guys

They just like, oh, I'll do that. Hey, what? Hey, I need a couple guys to boom their hands are up. You know, you know, you know, going to say go clean the sewer out. They don't care. They don't care. They're volunteering for everything. And you know, when I got to when I got to the team, that's what I did, volunteered for every as a matter of fact, I volunteered to be a radio. Because I'd heard that it was a really hard job that no one wanted. I was like, oh, okay, I'll do that job. You got a job that's really hard that no one wants carrying a heavy weight. You don't get to shoot it, right? You get to carry an M60. There's a major benefit to that that is you get to unload massive amounts of firepower. You carry a radio. You're just sitting around with batteries. Kind of hardcore in a different way, huh? It is, it is. And luckily, I got I got told two things. Number one that no one wanted that job and number two that if you were radio men, you'd go on every mission. I'm kind of hardcore in a different way. I was. I got told two things. And I was, and I got told two, that I was. And number one, you'd go on every mission. And you'd go on every mission. And, Because they always need a radio man. And I said, oh, that's me. I want to go on every mission. So I'll carry that radio.

But that and everything, you know, you just volunteer for everything. So that's, that's one of the best ways that you can make a good impression is by volunteering for stuff and then crushing it. And eventually people look at you and they say, oh, this guy doesn't care what we give him. He's going to crush this task. And you know what? People like working with him because he's worried about the team. And this person seems like, let's get, let's give him a little. task let him lead something because sometimes when you volunteer for something you're

volunteering for leadership position hey I need four guys one of those people is going to be in charge right for it's not going before guys going equally into some thing right no someone's going to be in charge of it yeah someone's going to take charge of it be that person huh yeah that's good this um when he said how can I be noticed so to work hard yeah but you know how it's like okay that's that's what I want I want to be noticed right so you ever walk into a bar or something and a girl walks in and she you can tell she's trying to be noticed it's a bad look man so what I'm saying is you like if you're trying to be noticed bro people can see that stuff like this guy's just trying to be noticed right here and it's and it does the opposite obviously that's yeah

you're right that's the hardest thing to convince of people convince people of is the fact that if you're just if you're just working hard you'll get noticed you will get noticed it's like um You do something kind of good or whatever brave. I don't know. Hey, look, did you guys all see how brave I was right there? Yeah. You know? Yeah, bro.

No one wants that. No one wants that. You to be the leader. All right there. It's like saying, hey, I'm like, hey, guys, that task, I did pretty good, right? I was really humble. No one's, no one's more humble than me. No one's more humble than me.

Stop worrying about you and think of helping the team and volunteer a bunch, and that's where you end up in a leadership position. Got time for one more? Yeah. might as well last question question for uncle Jake from James who's nine can you be weak but strong at the same time can you be weak but strong at the same time yes you can you can't because you can be for instance you can be physically strong but at the same time you could be mentally weak or you could be the opposite you could be mentally weak

but at the same time physically strong. And I would love to be able to put a priority on one of those. And I know I've said before that knowledge is the most important thing. But the reality is if you don't have the strength or actually the health to back that up or even to function as a human being physically, then your knowledge and your mental strength doesn't really even matter. So that comes into play. And being big and strong is also totally useless if you're mentally weak and you quit. Now, being mentally strong should actually lead you to being physically strong because if you are mentally strong, then you can work and train to become physically strong.

But if you're mentally weak, then you will not hold the line on the good foods and the good workouts and you won't get physically strong or healthy. So weak and strong at the same time, yes, but I say be strong. train your physical strength and exercise your mental strength by doing the right things the hard things the things you know you're supposed to do do them and be as strong as you can mentally physically and emotionally for yourself for your team for your family hold the line and be strong all I've got for tonight so echo Charles speaking of holding the line Mm-hmm. Perhaps you could hold your portion of the line here and explain to people how they can support this podcast in the event that they would like to do so

Sure be happy to. Thanks for allowing me the opportunity. We'll talk about origin, right? American made, of course, from the beginning to end, American made. It's a big deal, actually. Also, supplements, right? Jocko supplements. Wait, American made what? What was that first part? Everything.

I'm just, and that's like a disclaimer. Like, everything I'm about to talk about from origin is American made, straight up. So people, you've been being asked about supplements for a while. Yeah. Probably from the beginning, I think. All right, well, here you go. Here's some Jocko supplements. For your joints.

Crill oil. Super krill oil. So not just crude. It's super krill oil. Jaco super krill oil. Boom. Also, Jocko Joint Warfare. That's like a blend.

Glucosamine. Conjoint. Is it chondroitin? Condroitin. Which comes from, you know where it comes from? C cucumbers. Cucumbers. Dang. Didn't know that, did you?

Actually, I think you mentioned it. But I don't, you know. We know now, and really that's what's important. very good stuff because I would say it is the main thing like joint supplements like krill oil you know these are these supplements help me way more than any protein powder and back in the

I used to take protein powder and you know these weight gainer things and I don't even think that they helped really I'm not saying they don't help but I just you just don't these the joint stuff krill oil especially joint warfare these things help you way more and for longer too by the way

nonetheless there's also some geese on there and rash guards still all made in America from the beginning to that it's one thing to import material from you know other places you know and that's cool too I get it and I dig it but

in the event of you wanting it you know all the stuff to be made in America boom origin mane.com going there see what you like get something if you want also fitness gear. So I was, you know, I'm into kettlebells now. I'm into other lifting too, of course.

But kettlebells are a bigger part of my routine. And just slowly I kind of get more like, oh, you get stronger, you get the bigger one. I took a, I stood back the other day when I was lifting. Stood back and looked at my setup. It's pretty dope. I don't have like the normal kettlebells. I have this one.

The point is, okay, so on it, that's where I get the kettlebells from, on it. There's some other cool stuff on there, but mine are all the primal bells. One few legend bells. They're like the artistic ones, obviously. Kind of when you sit back and you look at your setup, I think that's a big deal. When your setup is dope, I'm just saying. So yeah, you want your setup to be dope.

Going on it, get their kettle bells. You can get the regular ones too. See, and they're kind of understated and I dig it, but, no, man, I'm sticking with a werewolf. I got that big foot one, 90 pounds. been doing some work with that one how big is yours my biggest is 40 kilograms that's only 88 pounds

you might be getting 2 pounds stronger than me yeah every single rap so that's that's something cool it's not nothing it's something anyway on it dot com slash jaco that's a good one same thing go on there you like something

get something good way to support also when you buy these books that jocco reviews from time to time no book today i understand but you want to buy any of those books on our website jocco podcast dot com section called books from episodes all the books by episode boom click through there when you get them and if you happen to do any other shopping boom click through their same thing same deal you know goes it takes you to amazon and you know boom that's a good way to support small action big real you know just a little click go in there shop boom good way to support excellent way to support

also subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already seems obvious I know but you know know sometimes you want to listen to one or two or whatever be like is it worth it to subscribe I think I think yeah subscribe you think so yeah I subscribe to this podcast yeah me too and I have the actual yeah might as well good and that's a good way to support leave a review if you're in the mood too because I mean it makes sense you know where you figure you know people on Twitter they'll say like if something's up like hey you you you there was like a definition remember the there was the one book I it's I'm drawing a blank on

which book but it was a British one oh and there was a mistake no there wasn't a mistake there was the word knob yeah remember we called them a knob and I was like what is the knob yeah and then people on Twitter like boom sending me boom boom boom so it makes sense you know feedback man people were all involved you know so yeah if you want to leave a review leave review you can you can you're in the mood, don't have to, of course, but if you're in the mood, too. Also, YouTube, subscribe to that one. We have a YouTube channel, Jocko Podcasts.

Pretty good one. On top of the video version of this podcast, we include little excerpts from the podcast. Just little nuggets of, you know how, especially with the Q&A, it's good because it's like, okay, I don't want to listen to the whole Q&A, even though I do mark them by timestamp and subject. But nonetheless, you can. You know, they're little, where you can kind of share it with, oh, shoot, I remember my friend who needed some advice on Jiu-Jitsu rolling or how to do good in college or whatever, you know,

so you can just share it with them. They don't have to listen to the whole podcast. Anyway, there are little excerpts we put on there. Some other stuff, do deleted scenes from time to time. Might add another one of those. Anyway, point is, subscribe to our YouTube channel. If you want to. Also, Jocka is a store.

It's called Jock. Jocco store. Jocco store.com. On there, there are t-shirts, travel mugs. Some bumper stickers. We might be out of bumper stickers. No, no, no. We have bumper stickers.

Some women's stuff on there. Some shirts, of course, with... I feel like we haven't talked about the layers on the shirts recently. That's really disappointing to everyone. To not hear you talk about the layers on the shirt. Or maybe that in and of itself is a layer. Right? You just don't talk about the layers.

You just let them exist. Is this. Layers. That's a layer in its own right. That's what I mean. Layers are just there. Yeah, exactly right. So, there you go.

That is pretty lame if you have to describe the layers. Yeah, it's like describing like the punchline of a joke. Right. It's not a joke. Yeah, yeah, it's just a whack joke. Either way, some shirts on there. Also, rash guards, I think we're doing a warrior kid rash guard. Oh, nice.

We're doing it with Pete. Oh, nice. American made. Warrior kid. Rashgard. Nice. One side says win. The other side says learn.

And the back says, this is about everything. Dang. It'd be good. Credit. How far out of those from being released? We're narrowing down the cut, you know? Because kids are, I was talking to Pete. He's like, kids are shaped different.

There's just shape kind of weird. So you got to kind of, there's some refining that kind of has to go into the shape. But yeah, that's more or less it. Check. Also some, I said women's stuff. But yeah, some hoodies. hoodies should be available.

It's not right this moment anytime. They're available this moment. They're common. Yeah, yeah. Thick winter hoodies. Either way, and if you go on there

and if something's out, which especially now, like I'm trying, I'm really narrowing down my whole process there. But if something's out of stock or whatever, there's a little thing on there,

you just put your email in there. I don't, it's not a spam thing at all. In fact, a lot of people sign up for our email list, which is another thing. I don't really send much.

The point and not that that's a good thing, but I'm saying you know sometimes I get contacted by these people With their advice about stuff and I'm not not trying to say I'm like I'm not being arrogant right But there the people that talk to me about like What is it building the? Oh the okay about the podcast like the brand yeah, you should do more social media Yeah, though they say you know the one of the most valuable you need to get a big email list and you can hammer them stuff all the time And you and you have them forever. And I'm like, I'm like, bro, I don't know, I'm not, you know, we're not here to just like hammer people with, uh, whatever messaging. Yeah.

So, yeah, you can sign up for it. The email list that you made, I mean, I, what I put out like one thing or maybe two things on it, you put out maybe two things or three things. Well, you do one thing you do that's good is you give you this is where it's beneficial. If you want something, you'll find out about it or other year, right? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

And also you've let, you've, you've done some polling. Like, hey, what color of this should we make? Yeah. Yeah.

And that's really what it is. It's more like a direct line, like, for people who like, like, like I care. Like if a new item comes out, item,

something new on the store comes out or something, something super relevant. Like, I'm not going to be like, hey, by the way, let me just send you this

that you won't read or I don't know. Like I won't just, I don't use it to, I don't think it should be used ever, but so I don't use it. to try to like keep your attention on my website you know it's not that i figure i looked at it kind of like i don't know i forget if i heard someone say this or not but it was it really made sense where you know when you sign up for an email list right so a marketer a quote unquote

marketer will look at that and be like okay they just signed it signed up to be marketed to right so every time i entering my email for like do you want updates you know i like i never end my email for those things which is kind of part of the point because you know I'm signed signing up right now to be marketing marketed to so people are going to sign up they say okay I want to be marketed to I'm not going to like abuse like I'm not going to instantly violate your trust should I send out an email to people if I just figure if you truly believe that like that's what they signed up for no no I'm saying should I send out like an email of information or something yeah people yeah so yeah exactly yes that's what I should do

If you think, okay, so think of me as like a person who's like, hey, yeah, I'll sign up for this email. Right. And so I put my email in there. And then, so now your contemplation, I send them an email. If you think that that email legitimately is what I want to get from you when I put my email, then, yeah, send that email. I don't even know what that is. So that's why I hardly send anything. I just figure, hey, if there's a new rash guard, especially when people on Twitter or Instagram, whatever, telling me, hey, do this for a rash guard.

Or, hey, do this for a shirt. or where when the hat's coming out when the hoodie you know when's the hoodie i've been yeah you know waiting for the kids size small warrior kid you we so for instance this is a good one you will email when the when the new hoodies are available boom you email everyone yeah and actually i did one better where i don't even have to email everybody because what if people are like i already have a hoodie so yet they're on the list so i'll do you one better on the hoodie on the store when you click on the hoodie yeah select the size and it's out you can just be like boom put you your email right there you'll only get emailed if the hoodie gets back in stock in your

specific size otherwise you don't get nothing I'm not going to bother your inbox your inbox is sacred okay just because you gave me the key doesn't mean to show up every day okay so cool like that yeah I think so all right I think that's the way to go so marketers whoever's listening to this right now that's that's like you're you're missing out on so much opportunity don't violate people yeah we're not going to violate people's trust for opportunity good job yeah I guess that's We're putting it It's good Jocco store.com

If you look at check Check those things out You know If you like something Get something Good way to support Also Psychological Warfare

If you don't know what that is We all know what that is Should I even Mention what it is Really you should Might as well In case people don't know All right

It's an album Not a song album Not a rap album What is it Like a It's an album With tracks Jocco tracks

And these tracks what they are is obviously you listen to them audio tracks right iTunes Google Play Amazon music anywhere where they sell MP3s so what they are is you put it in when you're when you're trying to get it like you set a goal you're trying to get after it and you're having these moments of weakness diet workout getting up staying discipline create procrastination all this all these points of weakness that you can encounter there's a track for one of them Boom, you listen to it, and it's, boy, it's kind of like Jocko at your fingertips in a way where he's saying, you're like, hey, Jocco, okay, so I have this luxury. I can call you up and be like, hey, you know, tonight, I had a, I don't know, stressful day and I still got some work to do.

I'm thinking of going to Vons and getting some vodka. I don't want, tomorrow, I don't want to look back and be like, I wish I wouldn't have drank vodka. But right now I really want to go get that vodka. It's very powerful, and I think you'd do me some good, really some strong. I have the luxury of being able to call you up and be like, hey, boom, and then you can just tell me, explain to me pragmatically, why I shouldn't do that. Thanks, Jocko, boom, I don't get the vodka. A lot of people don't have that.

Get psychological warfare, you do have that. You just put in the track, boom. You'll wake up early every single time. If you're not feeling like waking up early, you'll wake up early. Same thing with a workout, same thing with procrastination, all that stuff. Anyway, check them all out. if you like it get one of those 100% effectiveness if you still slack after listening to this i said this before i'll say it again there's a problem i don't think you will so there is no problem

boom that's a good one good support right on uh also you can get jocco white tea on amazon speaking of amazon you can joccal white tea that you should drink it if you want a deadlift more than 7,8454 pounds because that's what you will be able to do as soon as you drink your first sip guaranteed 100% jog a white tea tastes good and makes you feel good and it's good for you so get that books I got some books one of us called Way the Warrior kid it's for kids but I think we can all learn from it I know I learned from it from good old uncle Jake got a book called extreme ownership which is a book about leadership combat leadership lessons learned also have a book called discipline equals freedom

Field Manual just came out October 17th. I'm gonna read you a little excerpt first excerpt coming from the and the reason I'm reading this is a few weeks ago. There was a mass shooting in Vegas horrible situation and I deal talk about all kinds of different things in this book about my life things I've learned and one of the things one of the sections in here is called immediate action drills Here we go back to the book, but we can't always avoid high threat areas and sometimes the high threat area doesn't avoid us in the world today conflict and danger can occur at any time anywhere So it is important to maintain situational awareness at all times pay attention to your surroundings look at suspicious people Look at unsuspicious people what are they doing where are they going? What are they looking at assess?

while you assess think of contingencies where is your closest escape route where is the closest cover and concealment cover being a place to shield you from bullets and concealment being a place to hide if you are maintaining situational awareness you should be very hard to surprise if you sense something is going wrong or you sense a threat proactively move away from it walk to the other side of the accelerate your car walk out the door don't wait for things to get worse if you do get surprised and are caught in a bad situation act if you can run away from an assailant do it if you can't run because they have a hold on you attack them put

all your training to use as quickly and as violently as possible as soon as you can break free do it and run if shooting Starts get down Call the police at the first opportunity if the shooting is single shots being fired at a slower pace run immediately and keep running If the shooting is rapid fire find some solid cover to get behind Wait for a lull when the lull comes run that may be your only chance If you are trapped in a room with an active shooter outside barricade yourself If there is no if there is an ideal hiding place hide if not prepare to attack them as soon as they enter the room get anyone in the room with you on board and ready to swarm the attacker

So those are some notes from where to start and again you can take training for those type of situations To a very high degree but if you have no training you need to know what to do in those situations that's that's why I'm put that in there um you know I'll read this one more little section because I got to ask this all the time I'll just do the beginning of the section dealing with injuries and illnesses what are you you are going to get injured you are going to get sick regardless of how careful you are in your training how clean you eat and how healthy you live you are still human injuries and illness will occur My theory for overcoming injuries and illness is simple.

Do what you can. If you are sick or injured, don't use that as an excuse to skip workouts or stay in bed all day. Do what you can. Hurt your knee? Work your upper body. Work the good leg. Hurt your shoulder. Time to work on one-armed pull-ups and push-ups.

Focus on your core and legs until your shoulder heals up. Tendonitis from using the grip too much sound like it's time to focus on sprinting and jumping Pliometrics got a little cold flu same thing do what you can maybe it's just going for a walk a couple sets of sit-ups and push-ups but don't just stay in bed all day so go on to talk about some more of that this book is called discipline equals freedom and If you want to help spread the word on this, go and buy from a local bookstore, like an independent bookstore. Because when they sell these books, they report it in such a way that it helps the book get recognized by some of the bigger media outlets. And when it gets recognized by some of those big media outlets, like the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal, that helps spread the word even more.

And I think that the word that's in this book should be spread because I think it's going to help a lot of people and I think it's going to help them Live better healthier and more productive lives So you can get that book Discipline equals freedom field manual Also for your business We have a echelon front leadership consulting to me Laif Pabin J.P. Danelle Dave Burke if you need our services to help you your business your team your leadership give us an email info at echelonfront dot com and if you have questions or you have something you want to talk to us about here you want to keep this

little conversation going you can still find us always on the interwebs on Twitter on Instagram and on to Facebook Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at jocon go Willink and finally thank you to everyone for listening and supporting this podcast we truly appreciate it and for those of you in uniform thanks for providing the blanket of freedom that allows this podcast to be possible and for the first responders that protect us at home that drive and run towards danger thank you for keeping us safe and to everyone else out there on your mission to succeed to conquer to get better to win keep training keep fighting keep working and striving and

grinding to do more than anyone thought you could more than even you thought you could keep your eyes on the target your head in the game and keep on getting So until next time this is echo and jocco out