Jocko Podcast - 99: How to Ask For Help. How to Deal With Incorrect Feedback. Maintain an Unpredictable Schedule.

Episode Date: November 8, 2017

0:00:00 - Opening 0:00:13 - Is Important Paperwork Important? 0:10:59 - As a strong leader, is asking for help okay? 0:15:19 - How to deal with incorrect feedback. 0:26:17 - Taking Ownership VS Being The 'Easy Button' 0:30:11 - Should you appear passionate about your job? 0:41:04 - How to be disciplined when you come from an undisciplined background. 0:57:44 - People will mock you if you take leadership seriously in THIS way. 1:10:44 - Important tips to lead a team of volunteers. 1:15:51 - Should you continue training Jiu Jitsu if you hate it? 1:30:00 - How to maintain a good personal schedule with an unpredictable work schedule. 1:33:03 - A letter from a Trooper that we all can learn from.   1:38:35 - Closing Thoughts. 1:40:34 - Support: JockoStore stuff, Super Krill Oil and Joint Warfare, Origin Brand Apparel, with Jocko White Tea,  Onnit Fitness stuff, and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual.  2:04:07 - Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 99 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. It is a day for Q&A. Sure. Right into it. All right, let's do it. Jocko, hey, Jocko, as the director of our sales department, I require my guys to fill out sales call interaction logs.

I have one guy who thinks because the sales are up, this no longer is important, nor does he have the time. How do you handle situations like this? Okay, so as I got this question, I'm like, okay, I've answered this before. I'm not going to answer it again. I've gotten something close enough. And you know what's interesting, I talk to some people now. I talk to a lot of people and they say, hey, you know, on a Q&A, I know what you're going to say. Yeah.

You know, and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's awesome. They say I still need to hear it. Sure. But I know what you're going to say. And I said, okay, cool, that's good. That means, you know, people are starting to expand their brain a little bit, maybe, see a different perspective that they might not have had before so that's good in my opinion right now Also what I realize is as you answer as I answer these questions

There's additional information right that comes out once you make a certain level of understanding then there's more understanding to be had And so that's what I realized with this question as I thought well Okay, there's the standard answer right the standard answer is okay that you got people and they're not doing what you want them to do And what do you do then? Well, the fact is the real standard answer that everybody now knows if you've been listening to podcast is They need to know why they're doing what they're doing They need to know why it's important They need to know how them filling out those forms will

Help the company and therefore help the individual that needs to fill out the forms because it'll provide better Intel With to the company that will provide them more accurate advertising Which will in turn make them be able to sell more which will in turn make the Cost to produce the product go to down because they're selling more and that means he has better pricing to sell things with and he'll be able to sell more and make more money and so you have to tie that whole thread through That's kind of the standard answer Which everybody should know if someone's not doing what you want them to do you need to make sure they understand why they need to do it

Why it's important how it ties back to them. Okay, so boom We get done with that standard answer now there's the next level right now we're going like to purple belt and and Here's the non-standard answer here's the advanced dancer or the purple belt answer is okay now let's ask yourself this piece of paper that you're having him fill out is it really actually important is it actually important what purpose does it actually serve because you're you want this guy who's a who's a good producer his sales are up and you want him to continue to fill out these sales interaction logs so that you can track and make sure that he's

making enough calls that he's got to write the right approach that he's using the right verbiage when he's talking to his customers or clients and so you want him to fill the top but now he's actually doing well and you got to ask yourself like okay what purpose is this thing serving now that the guy is doing well what purposes is it serving maybe at a certain level you say you know what you don't need to fill that out anymore if you'd sell 10 units a day you don't need to fill this out anymore if you sell a today you got to fill out your logs because we got to check and see what you're doing that that's or are you just making this person do it because

that's what everyone does so if you can't if you can't answer the question yourself why it's important then maybe you should check why you have this thing in place so again we put things in place to help people but at a certain point it is possible that they don't need to do it anymore The some salespeople if you know maybe you want people to make eight phone calls a day and you want them to log down what they did Okay, what if this guy's doing 28 phone calls a day and and he wants to get to 38 phone calls a day, but he can't because he's filling out your paperwork Yeah, okay, so if people are meeting the numbers Maybe you raise the bar a little bit make him and and you give him more freedom He's got the self-discipline right he's got the discipline to make call. He's making the numbers his numbers are up

Okay Give him some more freedom Maybe he can turn that into more production if he starts to lag off guess what? Hey bud if you keep selling 10 units a day We're good. You don't need to fill out this crap You go to nine you're back on the back on the filling out of paperwork Guess what he's gonna do you're gonna sell 10 every day? He's gonna sell 12. He's gonna sell 15 Yeah, and then I would tell him I'd say look if you sell 15 units a day I'm gonna fill out a piece of paperwork that says you're awesome

I'm gonna do it every time you sell 15 units Yep, that's good. Boom, little fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's it. There's the, there's the white, maybe three-stripe white belt answer. Everyone should know at this point, followed by a little bit more advanced. Purple belt move.

Umapata. Sure. At the same time, that's not to say that it's guaranteed not important. Not at all. You're just saying make that evaluation. Not at all. And there is a chance that I'm wrong, right? That the paperwork that gets filled out actually really does.

does get put into a data file that can then be used to to you know target certain customers or follow up with certain customers and if that's the fact you explain it to the guy and how it's going to benefit him and we're back to answer number one which worked yeah which is fine yeah right and wrong right and wrong are interesting concepts yeah and and people sometimes get wrapped around right and wrong yeah they just think that there's a right answer and there's a wrong answer yeah and and and and Many times neither question or neither answer is right or wrong or both answers are right and wrong. So you got to open your mind on these things. You got to open your mind. You know, it's like we talk about with jiu jitsu schools. Should a jih Tzu, should a jitza school be strict, bow to your professor, everyone wear the same uniform, not allowed to ask people to roll? Or should it be, hey, where whatever you want, the instructor's named jaco and go in there and cruise. and train hard.

Which one is right? The answer is they're both right. You can both of those have benefits. And some people flourish in one kind of school and some people flourish in another kind of school and you can't say one's right or wrong. Same thing. I used to run in the slot in the steel teams with tactics. Like should we enter the room like this or like this? And the answer is actually, well, which is better in that scenario?

And sometimes this one's better and sometimes that one's better. And so if your mind can be more open, you'll be able to use more options, which is beneficial. Yeah. That scenario kind of reminded me of one of my friends. It was a friend of a friend. And it was actually my friend's friend's wife.

And she was saying, yeah, she's kind of making light of the fact that they force their kids to watch a charger game or something on this day or whatever. And the kids don't like football. or the kid, the one kid. Don't like, doesn't like football, doesn't like watching football, doesn't like this whole thing. And she was like, oh, no, it's a tradition, you know? So, you know, we make them do it.

It's a tradition, all this stuff. I'm kind of thinking like, okay, I mean, that's cool that it's like your tradition, but like no one likes it. Like, so what is the tradition doing? I mean, I understand, like, if you have a tradition, everyone likes it. Or the tradition and it improves, like, I don't know, the cohesion of the family or something like that. And, you know, for all these beneficial reasons and one way or another beneficial, But if you're doing it just for the sake of the tradition like this paperwork situation and also what are you doing if you're telling your kid like no you'll watch the football game Yeah especially now that everyone hates the Chargers because they left San Diego. Yeah, this is a long time ago

Yeah, yeah. But, but if you tell your kid, hey, no, it's a time for our family to get together, and you don't got to watch the game, but hang out, we're going to have some hot dogs. Yeah. You know what I mean? And we're just, that's what it is. It's not about staring at the screen watching something that you don't like. Yeah.

It's about hanging out, you know, grandma's coming over. Yeah. Auntie's coming over. Sure. We're going to cruise. We're going to eat barbecue chicken, right? Yep. That's different than, hey, you sit down and watch the football game.

Yeah. But when kids reach a certain age, they don't want to hang out with you For a certain time period. That's what started my whole argument right there. It wasn't an argument, but that's what started my little discourse. Yeah, at a certain time period, your children are supposed to rebel against you. Yeah.

Somewhat, because they have to convince themselves in their mind that they're gonna leave. Yeah. And they're gonna be on their own. And something in their mind triggers that to be like, okay, I need to separate myself from these other humans that have been caring for me Since I was wearing diapers. Yeah, and now I need to get that out of my head and figure out how to survive on my own. So they do that by rebelling against you and say, I don't watch this stupid football game. Yeah, I want to go to my friend Mary's house. Yeah. We're going to do something over there, right? That's where it heads. Do you think that there's an element of like a prey, you know how like when you're a kid and you hit like 13 12, 13 years old, you start to get this like empowered feeling, you know, because you're like physically kind of growing up. And then your parents are kind of you have this feeling of oppression not that your parents are all those things are totally that's exactly what I'm saying So you're I'm like it's like an actual rebellion like you can oppress me no more Yes, I don't have to ride with you. You know I don't have to walk with you in the law

No, I'm out Yeah, and and you're trying to do that because you realize Subconsciously that these people are not going to be here I need to learn how to fend for myself I need to get out of the nest Yeah, yeah, yeah get out of the nest Start flapping them wings But yeah, exactly right But the tradition

Just for the sake of the tradition Because actually my whole argument with the lady Was that Was trying to not necessarily prove But try to find out whether or not She even thought about it Like why are you making your kid do There are traditions that are important

Right within a family Within a culture But if you lose fact If you don't understand The meaning of the tradition Yeah Then it doesn't make sense to you Yeah

So then you don't care about it. Yeah. But if you say, hey, look, this is our family, and this is when we get together, this is the only time. It's our tradition. Yeah. So we're going to do it. Yeah. And that way we get to know each other, and that we keep connected.

Yeah. We can help each other. Cohesion. Cohesion. Next question. Jocko. As a leader, at what point am I allowed to go to others and say, I need you? Because I recognize I'm not capable of pushing forward, forward on my own.

Or should that be an instance where I need to take a step back and apply more discipline to my life and find a way to push forward by myself? Okay, you are allowed to say that to your team member immediately that you need them. Absolutely. If you, of course, you need your team because if you didn't need your team, why would they be there? Yeah. If you can do everything yourself, then you don't have a team. Yeah. Right?

You just do everything yourself. So while you, of course, should be working hard and you should be applying discipline, as a leader, It's your job to actually lead things and to let other people support and make things happen and there's nothing wrong with that you and also you don't want to be stuck in the weeds doing my new things so If you're not capable I think what might be holding this individual back There's two things number one is I feel like I should take extreme ownership of everything Yeah I feel like I should just do everything myself that is not what extreme ownership is Extreme ownership isn't doing everything yourself and also what can come into play is you're eating ego because you don't want to ask people for help and that's not a good sign you

there's nothing wrong with asking people for help if you need it in fact that's the humble thing to do hey echo I don't know how to quite finish out this you know this thing up this project I'm working out can you give me a hand with this I don't know how to work a video recorder can you show me how to do that right whatever so so there's no problem with that you're allowed to ask you can you can say that immediately in fact your team should feel that you are counting on them and relying on them they should know that And then put your ego aside ask for help no problem that doesn't mean you're giving away that doesn't mean you're not taking ownership

That doesn't mean you're not applying discipline It means you're working as a team together to accomplish mission again if a if a if a mission is so easily that you can accomplish it yourself You don't need a team why do you have them? If you can do it all yourself just by applying discipline cool You don't need anyone else if you're you're but your mission should be larger than one human being can accomplish So that's why you have other people on board to help you out Yeah. No problem You know, like, I always think when, when that happens.

I thought we made it out of that question. Go ahead. No, but you know, like, let's say it's like something that's just a pain in the ass. And you don't really need help, but you just don't want to do it by yourself. Oh, okay. You know what I'm seeing? Then, yeah, then you should just do that by yourself. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of where this is coming from ultimately because it's like, I'm not saying that if you're the, if you're, if you have a position in a company. where you shouldn't be doing some sort of task because it's not financially efficient to have, you know, a person that's making $150,000 a year doing a task that someone that's making $10 an hour should be doing. So you shouldn't do that. That's not what I'm advocating. And a company won't won't be doing well. Yeah.

If you're paying people $150,000 a year that you could get someone to do for $10 an hour. I'm not saying that. So don't get me wrong. Yeah. But that's why we have a team so that you can focus on going forward and whatever it is you need to be focused on. And somebody that's below you in the chain of command, that's a member of your team that's getting paid $10 an hour can do some of the stuff that you need them to do. Yeah. Yeah.

And the question actually is really clear because it's because, quote unquote, because I recognize I'm not capable of pushing. You know, it's kind of like it's obvious to you that you need help. It's not that you're, you know, raking leaves, and I don't want to do this all by myself. So, hey, you know, you tell your brother, come help me. It's not that. It's different. Yeah.

And if you need to get the leaves raked and you need them done by Monday so you can get them in the bags so that the dump truck can come and take the leaves away and you can't physically get it done, then you say to your brother, hey, can you give me a hand? I need these done tonight before the sun goes down. Yeah, yeah. I'm not going to be able to make it in time. Can you give me a hand? Yeah.

Your brother says absolutely. Hell yeah. Got your back. Next, Wesh. What's the best way to deal with feedback you don't agree with? My manager gives me feedback on my personality that I don't agree with. I'm only in the company five months, and he doesn't know enough about me to make the comments he's making. I find myself wanting to contest with what he's saying, but I don't know.

believe this will ultimately end poorly for me it's frustrating for me to listen to feedback from him about my personality when my friends and family would disagree with him okay again this is one of those questions that I think people that listen to the podcast know what the answer is what you do when someone's giving you feedback is you listen to it and you try and make adjustments get in their head and figure out where this is coming from they're obviously saying this for some reason and maybe the reason is because they have a big ego or they don't understand people very well and that's fine and if you know that then you just learn something about them

But also you you might not know yourself as well as you think you do and And obviously if you can test what someone saying You're gonna look like you can't take critique so you're right that's not a good approach to take Furthermore what you're saying is that your friends and family wouldn't agree with this guy Well guess what they're your friends and family right? I It's like the dude's mom that you know the dude's mom always thinks the dude's handsome Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, dude's not handsome But his mom thinks he's handsome and he you know your friends and family think oh I

I can't believe they'd say that about you well that's your friends and family There's a reason why you have friends because they like you Yeah, they they they whatever person part of your personality is is Not cool they're over it or they can deal with it. Well this this boss The manager can't deal with it. He has not a deal with it yet so like I said when someone gives you critique you should actually listen to what people have such a hard time with yeah and you should actually listen and say okay well maybe I'm too aggressive maybe I'm you know too

closed-minded whatever whatever critique point you're getting listen to them maybe someone's like hey I don't think you take critique very well and you're like what you're talking about yeah of course I take critique well you don't know you know that's what that's my point so and the other thing like I said is in doing this the manager's actually telling you something about their personality and and their views and their judgment so learn from that learn what they're pretty they're teaching you about their personality which is going to help you better influence and manipulate and work with work with that person in the future and perhaps help make them into a better

leader and a better supporter of what it is that you're trying to do So Calm down relax one of the best things you can do when someone when someone says to you hey I think you're screwing this stuff It's like oh hold on. Let me let me let me let me grab a notebook. I just want to take notes and make sure I understand where you're coming from so I can I can make some adjustments. I'm always looking to get better. Yeah That might be a little extreme, but you know Yeah, no Hold on a second. Let me get my notebook. Yeah, so I can take notes because I want to get better. Okay, I over did that just a little bit If you say it in that tone. Yeah, it's it's but not some people

People, some people, they'll take notes. You know how like some people they like taking notes? I kind of feel good. When I was running the West Coast SEAL training, the good officers, like there would be some officers when I'd be putting out word to them, they'd be taking notes. Yeah, that's good. And I was, you know, when I first saw it, it was kind of like, surprise me. Yeah.

Like, hey, this guy's just straight up taking notes on what I'm telling me. He's a one-on-one conversation. He's sitting there like taking notes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got to remember that stuff. But if he said it with your tone, it would be like, hold. Oh, Jacker's gonna say something. Let me get out my notebook.

Oh, no, that's sarcastic. Yeah, yeah. But there's also, not just being sarcastic, I was leaning towards more like the brown noser. Oh, that guy, okay. Oh, Echo, you're gonna give me some feedback? Hold on one second. I wanna get my notes out so I can make sure I do

exactly what you're telling me to do. Thanks, buddy. Yeah, yeah, see, again, with a tone. Yeah, I think, you know, there's that middle. Middle ground, I think. Yeah, who is it? Sarah Armstrong, I think, pointed out on Twitter.

Something about tone, tone and body language in some psychological survey makes up more than half of what is actually being said. Yeah. And I heard that too. And I was like, eh, that sounds cool. But I mean, you know, maybe, maybe not. Because if someone says something, it's pretty clear. But then it's kind of stuck with me.

And it's true. Like, I could literally say the same, like, I don't know, 10 words to you in all these different tones. And they would mean 10 different things. Oh, for sure. Like you can like It's actually baffling and surprising how much we can actually communicate like if I if I make a joke to you like something you don't know my level of sarcasm You don't know necessarily you have to know the person you know like so there's all these things that that have to be in place for you to effectively be communicated too Yeah so like let's say you overhear a conversation in the next room like you could easily miss the whole point of the conversation even though you

You heard every word because you don't know if they're joking you don't know if they're serious You don't know if one guy's mad you know if one guy's getting scolded and they can take the same exact or they can say the same exact words But they're just saying different things coming from different places. That's where you get through you end up a lot of Communication problems with email yeah where someone emails a joke Yeah joking about something and then someone takes it seriously and next thing you know people are flying off the handle Yeah I always had that rule in my sealed platoons and task you weren't allowed to joke on the radio Yeah, yeah yeah And the main reason for that rule is because you don't want other people outside your organization to hear it and take it the wrong way.

Same thing. But it's the same thing with email. Unless you know someone really, really well. That's really, really well. It's better to keep the sarcastic comments and just be straightforward and speak plainly when you're in email, when you're communicating with people. It's a lot, it's a lot easier. And then even with that, see, brother, there's no escape from this. Even with that, you could easily come off as like two.

rigid or maybe or is like dang is this guy does this guy not like yeah you know like you're exactly right it's your second email and he's like that's why communication is important that's why learning how to to write well is important that's why little words that you put in matter yeah into phrases into sentences they matter yeah yeah the event invention of emojis yep I've been using some emojis yeah no you're very into emojis I am now yeah I I I Sometimes I must say that I think you communicate very well with emojis because even though you don't sometimes use any words in a text to me, I fully understand what you mean by lightning bolt, lightning bolt, lightning bolt, lightning bolt, rainbow, rainbow, lightning bolt, thumbs up. Shock a fire.

Yeah, very clear, right? Yeah, no, I know. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah. I agree with that. Shaka fire. I forgot about fire. You do quite a bit of fire. Yeah, the lightning bolt and fire I use and then the shocker for sure and the rainbow with you I use a rainbow a lot Because I got to lighten up the mood But it helps it's weird. It seems like a child thing

I don't like emoticons. I don't like emojis. Yeah, but you're kind of like that in real life too No, I know, but it's it seems like to me it's see I don't know Yeah, it's like a kid maybe your little daughter would do it or something Oh, my daughter will send me 875 emojis from my wife's phone. Yeah, yeah, all of them. See, if she can feel them. Yeah, man. And I send back, okay.

Yeah, yeah, see, but you're like that in real life, too, though. That's the thing. Like, if you, like, if you, you know that you're running the risk of sounding too, like, you know, like stoic or whatever. You know, like, if you have to answer a question with yes. When, in whatever the question is, it's a yes or no question, and you answer yes, affirmatively, right? you'll put yes period and that'll come off as like oh jacca's like I don't know what up with this guy

is serious or something you know instead of yes exclamation point yes two exclamation points lightning bolt fire rainbow or something like that that gives away a little bit more like you know yours just like yes as if you're just looking someone in their eye going yes that's what I mean

I know that's what I'm saying you're really like that in real life most of the time right on Anyway, lightning bolt fire Yeah, man, those emojis Throw them in there, don't overdo it Double shaka. Double shaka, yeah?

What's the highest level of emoji approval You can send me? Three lightning bolts, three fires, three shakas, three rainbows. For sure.

If you go four, it's like, that's too much, like you shouldn't do four. Four is dumb, you know? Oh, Plus, depends on what I say, though.

So, like, if there's, if it's a word, the vowel in the word, they'll be like, that can be infinite. What do you mean? Like, if I put, I don't know, you know how like you'll tell me something exciting and I'll put, I don't know, I put dang, instead of D-A-N-G, I'll put D, lowercase A-A-A-A-A-A-D, depending the level of excitement, A-A-A-A-A-A-A, that can go infinitely, by the way. That can spend 20 text messages even, over 20 days. And that's how infinite it can be. Then the first half of the azer lowercase, the second half of the azer uppercase, the N, maybe 10 ends, 3 G's, all capital. Then, you know, then. So it depends.

It just depends. It just depends. Well, like I said, I think you communicate well with the embargo. But, yeah, that's what I'm saying. On a serious note in regards to communication, that is effective. You know what I mean. You can sense my level of excitement as opposed to cool, period. Yeah, yeah.

No, no, you're, you were, you're better with hieroglyphics. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's funny. Amen. It's life. Anyway, next question. If you were, if we're ready, you're ready, all right? Sorry.

No, no, all good. It puts me in a good mood, I guess, the rainbow emojis. It does, man. Sheds light of things. Dearest Jocco speaking of Lighthearted Nice emotions Dearest Jocko

You just skip number four Okay my bad My bad, my bad, okay Jock what is the difference Between extreme ownership versus the easy button Can you elaborate? I just need a little more clarification

To connect the dots in my situation Okay, again So as a leader, yes of course You are supposed to take ownership of everything extreme ownership of everything. That's what we talk about all the time But does this mean that you say I will do this and I will do that and I will do the other thing? I will do everything that the team is supposed to be doing No, that's that's not what I'm talking about now ownership does mean that you get things done You are responsible for making sure things get done that's what ownership is it is our team is in charge of something if our team is in charge of a project and and we don't get it done it's my fault it's not anybody else's fault so that's

what it is it means you take responsibility when things go wrong it means you take responsibility for problems and you get them fixed that's definitely ownership now the easy button and when I talk about the easy button in a negative way because that's what I'm doing here it's when your subordinates come to use and say how should I do this or what's the best way to execute this or can you can you can you tell me a good plan on on how we should make this happen or even hey there's bad news can you come tell my people because I don't really want to do it now if you say yes to those types of things on a regular basis then what you're doing is you're actually

you're actually stunting the growth of your subordinate leader because instead when you come to me and you say hey jocco we got this mission we got a plan how do you think we should do it if I say okay we should come in from the north you should you know set up an overwatch position here you should move through the target from this direction you you didn't learn anything you just took what I told you instead I say well go come up with your best plan and come back to me and brief me on it And so now you might be kind of bummed out because you wanted you didn't want to have to do this extra work But now you got to go do a little extra work but now you're learning and in two or three times you're not even come to ask me anymore

You're gonna come with a plan and because we already did a cycle cycle after cycle of you say hey here's my plan And be saying hey make this adjustment and you come back next time you say here's my plan and I said make this little adjustment And eventually you know to make those adjustments on your own and You can do it by yourself and that's what we want. I don't want to stunt the growth of my subordinate leader so I don't want to be an Easy button So you're providing the easy button like that's what they're talking about when they say easy button Yeah, yeah if you want to be the easy button you don't want to be the easy button for everybody else and I also No one's gonna be able to take your job from you which is actually what you want you want you want to make everyone

My subordinates so good that they can take my job for me that means I can step up and look forward and look forward and Lookout and they can do a better job of handling what they've got to handle and eventually when it's my time to get promoted I got people to take my place and we're all good Of course that doesn't mean leave them blind or let them fail don't do that give you want to give them rope But you don't give them enough rope to hang themselves You give them enough rope that they maybe get a little knot in the rope and it gets a little bit sloppy and you and then you go over to me say There's a knot here. Let me help you get that untied and now you give them the rope again

Right, right. So you don't, you know, in a, in the military, you don't let someone go to a mission that's real where someone's going to get hurt, killed, or mission failure because you wanted to not be the easy button. No, you don't do that. In the civilian sector, you don't let someone lose a big client or lose a bunch of money or make a mistake that costs a bunch of capital because you didn't want to be the easy button. No, no. Now, might you let someone make a little mistake? Sure. Little mistake that cost them a little bit of money?

Sure. So they learn a lesson? Sure. But you don't let them fall in your face. You don't let them hang themselves. So that's that. Next question. Dearest Jocko.

A question for you in the podcast. Our fire department promotion process has role-playing scenarios. In those role-playing scenarios, I lose points because I'm not outwardly passionate, quote-unquote, enough. I would have to fake it to succeed, and I'm not a fake person. Is this worth it? To fake it when seeking promotion. It's not like I'm gonna fake it once I attain the promotion. Okay.

This is a very cool question. I like this question a lot. And actually on this guy, sent me this question on Facebook. I responded very quickly and simply. My response was, play the game. Yeah. So fake it.

Play the game. Yeah, yeah. And you know what he wrote back? Got it. Yeah, yeah. So good for him. Yeah. Because what everybody, I think,

thinks I'm gonna say is like no you be told yourself no you don't play the game you're not gonna get up there and act all passionate about stuff you're you you're hardcore no yeah play the game now you you because you what you're doing you play the game you want to do a good job and you're doing your job and doing your job and doing your job requires some level of faking it yeah now does this mean that you're a fake person no it means that you're trying to do a good job think if every time that you're Boss came in with a dumb idea and you your reaction was to say that's a dumb idea Yeah, yeah

Is that gonna get you anywhere or every time a customer had an idiot idiot idiotic complaint about something? You were like hey, you're an idiot Yeah Or every time your wife said You know is this chicken dry and you said it's drier than a piece of cardboard in the Sahara desert Is that is that is that Would you benefit from that? How would that work out? The answer is you would he would not work out well in any of those cases

You have to play the game. Yeah, you have to play the game and I know I know that that's hard and I'll tell you what I did to get myself over playing the game I turned it into a game in my head I was like I'm I'm I'm I'm gonna build a relationship with this boss that I don't like I'm gonna do it I'm gonna build the best really that's my game I'm gonna come this guy's bro right When I was at officer candidate school You got to do the most ridiculous rules

They have these these rules that you've got to follow that were really annoying And you know what I did I I executed the rules Harder and more stringently than than anybody thought was even remotely necessary and had fun with it I played that game I you know if I've got a peer that may be I'm competing with or there's some tension I'm gonna support them I'm gonna play the game that's what I'm saying you gotta play the game now does this make me a bad person or a fake person no why because you're doing this the reason you're playing the game the reason you're acting this way is for benevolent reasons right this this guy at the fire

department he he's not trying to get promoted so that he can usurp the powers and then take over no he trying to get into a position where he can better lead and serve and and and step up and raise young leaders underneath and that that's what you're trying to do you're not trying to sneak into a position you don't deserve and you're not trying to build relationships so you can take advantage of people for your own benefit that that would be a fake person yeah in my opinion you're trying to move but if you're trying to move up in rank so you can do better and you can take care of the troops and you can increase readiness there's nothing wrong with that and if you don't play the

game to at some level you're not going to get promoted and guess what then people that played the game that might be less less qualified to do that job they're going to get the job because you wouldn't play the game you're too stubborn your ego is too big so you got to put that aside and I'll tell you something else learn from what you're being told if if you're showing no passion if you're showing like a zero emotion that's bad people will not connect with you and if they don't connect with you they don't follow you if they don't connect with you you're not building relationships with people if you don't have relationships with people you don't have a good team so

show a little bit of passion Sometimes you got to fake it. That's fine. You're just a really unpassionate person. Cool. Show a little bit of passion. Fake it a little bit. Learn it a little bit.

Yeah. Because it's actually going to be beneficial. Yeah. I would love for you to fake it for a little while until you start caring. What are you not passionate about? Are you not passionate about the job? Are you not passionate about you're a firefighter about saving people's lives? Are you not passionate about having a squared away department?

Of course you're passionate about that stuff. Otherwise, you wouldn't be, you wouldn't be sending me a man. message saying hey how do I get advanced how do I do I do better yeah you are passionate about it and that's fine it's good um I say it all the time you know if you don't have any emotions that you're a robot and robots people don't follow robots yeah so sometimes you got to show a little bit of that emotion and passion to connect with people and that's okay yeah don't be scared homie yeah because that's really the thing right is showing it of course you're passionate about but showing it because different people they're something Brian I dig it I don't want to always be like showing how fired up I am all

the time or whatever in in whatever scenario whatever but you're right that does help yeah like when you you want something's excited about it's it's and there's a there's a dichotomy here yeah because there's some people that will show too much emotions yeah and there's some people that will not show enough so you want to be somewhere balanced in the middle yeah yeah that's true and I dig it too when because it does feel like faking it because like in football the tradition is like to be fired up on the sidelines and let's go let's go you know like that kind of but probably sometimes you're not have the energy for that or sometimes you're kind of just nervous and you want to focus on what you got to do or whatever you know but it's kind of part of the game you know and and it does

help the people around you too it's like okay he's fired up okay maybe I'm not fired up now but he's kind of get me fired up you know and it kind of like helps the team yeah but yeah sometimes it doesn't feel that comfortable to do express outwardly you know how passionate but it helps Plus, it's fake, like, faking it, that's like a framing thing, too. You know, like you frame it, like you're faking it versus how you said you're playing the game. Right. You're playing the game because you want to do a better job. Yeah.

You want to get promoted. You want to, you want to get promoted for the right reasons. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, that's good, I think. If you can kind of bend and stretch yourself in an uncomfortable way for the benefit, you know? You know, I think where people, I think that term of faking it, no one wants to be a fake person. Right.

Yes. Which is why you're correct in that the way that's framed Yeah Is I'm being a fake person Yeah And no one wants to be a fake person Yeah At the same time

You have to Grow Yeah And you have to adjust And if you're going to be in a leadership position You're gonna do things that you don't That you wouldn't Man I do that all the time

I mean when I was in the military You know, I worked with people that I've said this before. I work with people both below me in the chain of command and up above me in the chain of command that I despised They never knew it. They don't know who they are right now Dang But you know I'll remember you got it. Does that make me a fake person? No Makes me a professional makes me a professional at doing my job because I wasn't gonna get let some little personal emotion of mine or some Oh that guys does this and I don't like that so I'm not gonna like him And and now we have an adversary relationship and now I got a problem.

Yeah, no, I'm playing the game. Yeah, play the game. So where's the line? What is a fake person genuinely? Well, I was gonna as you asked me what the line is the line is if you go against what your principles are. Yeah, you know, so if you've got fundamental principles that they say, oh, if you want this job, but what we need you to do is fill out a report about Billy saying that he did something wrong that you know he didn't do wrong. Hmm. Right? And you go, no, I'm not going to do that. That's, well, that's bad, right? That's now, now you're not just playing the game. Now you're going against your principles of being an honest person about what's happening. Yeah, that's really what it is, right? Like the honesty. When you're a fake person, so like, if someone's like, oh, I'm faking it or I'm being a fake person, how you said?

A fake person. Like turning on some passion, some manufactured passion for the sake of the team and stuff like that, that doesn't feel like you're a fake person. Fake person is kind of like you'll sit like someone I don't know for example someone's in the room and you're like hey You're great that shirt looks great and you're doing a great job they leave and be like that guy sucks Right the reason I'll tell you the difference the reason that someone the reason that you would consider someone and be angry that someone's a fake person is when they're doing it because They're doing it for personal benefit Oh yeah they're saying like if if if if if you were my boss and I come in and I say hey echo

I really like your new haircut looks great I don't really think that I think your haircut looks dumb But I'm gonna say that anyways and everyone knows that all I want to do is get that next promotion Yeah That's being fake Yeah makes sense That's being fake

But if if I'm saying Because what am I really doing what I'm doing is I'm making an adaptation I'm growing I'm doing something that I'm uncomfortable with Because I know it's gonna make me a better leader Well That's what I should be doing is trying to become a better leader Yeah

Now again if there If in this whatever organization, what you have to do is do something that you don't agree with. And it's the wrong thing to do. And you do it anyways? Well, then that's almost a totally different thing. There's that. Then there's, hey, I'm gonna kiss ass so that I get promoted.

It's all about me. And that's probably what we think of the definition of a fake person. Yeah. Guys. Next question. I saw a weakness in you on your latest podcast. You seem to overlook the fact that some infant children were raised in undisciplined environments with undisciplined parents.

They grow up having modeled these undisciplined examples. I hate the fact that I have gross undisciplined behavior. Solving this is a major priority in my life. You have zero idea of what it, of what this. experiences like for me you seem blind to this struggle like a father who would ignore their child's struggle and offer only the words man up so this is a good question and I see where this guy's coming from for sure and I know that it can be very very frustrating to try and become disciplined and I apologize that I

haven't talked about the fact of of what to do if you come from an undisciplined family or you have undisciplined parents I haven't really talked about what to do in that situation But there's a reason that I haven't talked about that before and that is because you don't get discipline from your parents You don't get discipline from your parents from your grandparents from your older brothers and sisters You don't get discipline from an external source You have to get it from you that's what self-discipline is you get it from yourself you get it from you So There's people from every possible background

From no parents to crazy parents to You know drug addicted parents to super squared away parents and everywhere in between on that spectrum that are completely disciplined people More disciplined than anyone I know It doesn't come from your parents you don't inherit it and there's another piece here it's called ownership right it's called ownership and if you're if you want to blame other people for the problem and I say this all the time if you don't take ownership of the problem the problem's not gonna get solved so if you blame your parents for

not having raised you in a disciplined environment you're not gonna solve that problem you're looking at your parents saying if you would have done a better job being more disciplined for me I would be more disciplined now so that means that means you can't do anything the fact the matter is it's wrong you actually can do something and it doesn't matter what how your parents raised you and brought you up you can have the discipline you need to decide to do it so as long as you're blaming other people I mean if you blame me for not discussing it you blame me for having zero idea what that experience is like you blame your parents

for not raising you this way as long as you're blaming other people as long as you're counting on other people to give you discipline as long as you do that you will not have it so again I'm sorry I should have made that I should make that more clearly and I'm trying to make it more clearly now and like my parents my parents are good people they had successful careers as as educators in public schools and my mom eventually became went into school administration my dad taught in high school for 30 something years and they were good hard working people and And but I'll tell you, they were no, they were no extraordinary preachers of discipline.

And I'll tell you, I, in fact, I, I never remember either one of them ever using the term or referring to discipline in any way. You know, and actually both my parents worked. They both worked a lot. My dad was coaching sports and we're doing after school stuff. My mom, same thing. Like we were on our own a bunch My parents were gone in the morning We got ourselves to school when we got home in the afternoon. They weren't home

You know, so it wasn't like they were setting up this rigid disciplined manner for me, right? And And you can see this with families many many different families There's families that have kids That the parents are very disciplined and the kids are wild and out of control sometimes that problematically so Right? Kids that come from really good families, but they get addicted to drugs Lack of discipline kids that come from really good families, but they they spin out of control and go in the wrong direction and there's also the opposite

Which is hey, the parents weren't around or the parents were abusive or the parents were drug addicts and and all the come the kid the kid comes out of that and is squared away is awesome And we saw that all the time the seal teams and I've said that before on this program doesn't matter It doesn't matter where your background is. It is what you decide to do Yeah. And I'll tell you another thing. It's not even from the military. Like the military requires discipline, obviously. But there's plenty of people in the military that don't have it.

Right? And many poor, many people lose their discipline when they leave the military because it's not being imposed on them anymore. So, I mean, just go look around. I mean, being in the military does not make you a disciplined person. Being from a disciplined family does not make you a disciplined person. Being in a disciplined group does not make you a disciplined person. What makes you a disciplined person is choosing to be disciplined So yeah, and and also as far as telling people to man up Which, you know, when someone says how do I?

Get up early every day. I say get up early every day. Yeah, how do I stop eating sugar? Stop eating sugar Look, that's the definition of man up, but obviously it's not just men that need discipline in their life I don't think I use that term but what I do take people is to get after it. That's what I tell people to get after it. I tell people to do the things that they know they're supposed to do, right? There's things that you know you're supposed to do as a human being. Things that you know are going to improve your life. Do those things. There's things that you know are going to make you a worse person and make your life worse. Don't do those things. Don't do the things that are making you weaker. Start doing the things that are going to make you stronger and smart. and faster and healthier and gonna make you a better human being and I'll say the same thing to this guy You want to be more disciplined get after it That's it man get up early do some kind of workout eat good foods clean your room make a list of things that you're supposed to do in your life and then wake up in the morning and do those things that you put on the list That's what discipline is and no it is not easy

But you're not gonna get it from anyone else but you And it's worth it. And it is the thing that is going to bring you freedom. That's the key word right there when you said it's worth it. You know what I think? This is what I think. I think like in an environment as like how he put it in an undisciplined environment, right? Or something like that where he grew up in an undisciplined environment.

I don't, obviously that's a very vague expression. Right. Undisciplined environment. Yeah, that could mean. That can mean a lot of different things. So a lot of times like when you're brought up in a certain environment, basically you're kind of taught or not taught like the value of certain things. So if you use like, I don't know, working out or whatever, right?

So I'm going to use myself as an example. My dad was an athlete, you know, not a superior athlete, but he was, you know, he knew like working out was a part of life and stuff like that. and, you know, in elementary school, we're doing sports and stuff like that, you know. Some people, they don't do that at all. So when they grow up into adulthood, some people straight up have never worked out before,

never been in a gym. And, you know, so growing up, they were never taught the value of what working out does for you. They're never taught. So they can't appreciate it. They just simply don't know the value. Sure, they see people with, you know, you know, they're in shape,

where they can do these things and they're very functional, whatever. they see that, of course, but they don't have that value. They don't feel that value. They just never learned it. So it can come off as like this thing for other people, you know? Like, oh, that's what other people do kind of thing. So they don't understand the value.

So back to the point, in their mind, this weird, the connection is not made that it's worth it. Because they don't know the value of it, really. But if you do know the value of it and then you can decide, okay, is this worth it? Is it worth it to wake up every day and quote unquote get after it for this, particular goal or this particular set of goals. So that's what it is. And I think sure the undisciplined environment can maybe provide that, but I think you're right.

I think that once you're like, oh yeah, that's worth it. You know how people, they'll find reasons when it's worth it, even though they've never experienced? Like, you know, like a person who has a heart attack or something? It's like, and they have kids, young kids or something, they have a heart attack, maybe never worked out ever in their life. They have a heart attack. They almost died.

They're like, guess what? I'm working out every single day. I'm a vegetarian now. You know, like doing major, major changes that they've never even thought about making and they'll do it because they decided it's worth it. And they'll be disciplined. They'll find that discipline real quick,

no matter how they were trained as, you know, their environment when they were growing up. Because now I see that it's going to be worth it. That's it. Yeah. And if it's not worth it to you. And that, I think, is what you develop. The value of working out, the value of.

But you develop, you can develop that from anywhere. That's what I'm, that's, essentially, necessarily develop that from any any you can develop that from from anywhere yeah yeah you can get it from yeah exactly right exactly right but the discipline itself just like i said that's gonna come from you your parents can teach it but guess who it has to it's still you it's still you and you can go to the military to specifically learn discipline when you leave it's on you who's it yeah exactly right and just like i said like yeah i know people who are done with the military and are glad they're done with that right they're glad with this waking up early yeah they're glad they did they

they're done with six months they're out of shape they're not doing anything productive it's it's horrible to see yeah yeah but it happens happens with the military it happens with anything it happens when kids get out of high school sports you you know and all of a sudden they don't I don't have to do that anymore I don't have to listen to coach yeah yeah crazy don't listen to coach listen to yourself yourself yeah determine whether or not it's worth it and I'm telling you that you don't need to determine I'm telling you it's worth it oh yeah I'm telling you it is worth it and you know what You actually know it's worth it that's why you're asking this question you know it's worth it you know it's worth it to have

Discipline but you think there's an easier way you think that it's something that people have you think that when Jocco's alarm clock goes off It's like oh just like my father taught me I rise and I shine you know like no It's like the pillow feels soft and comfortable Yeah, and the alarm clock is banging on my head and I don't like it. You know what I know it's worth it to Get up and get after it. I know it's worth it. You know it's worth it. Here's the thing, though.

We all know it's worth it. In a way, you're right. But like, really, though? Really. I'm going to be open and honest with you. I don't think that people know it's worth it. I think they know it's worth it like the kind of on paper. You know, if they have a multiple choice question, is it worth it?

Yes or no. They'll be like, yes. Obviously, I know working out is worth it. But here's the thing. I don't, if you don't know, if you don't, like having good credit, for example. so I never got taught like why really my mom said yeah you should have good credit

that's it that's the limit to my education on credit right so of course I blow it because they get you know I fall for literally all the tricks self-inflicted and otherwise credit gets jammed up so I don't know I don't know the value I don't know I've never experienced the benefits of having good

I don't know the value of good credit so it really didn't mean much to me really my credit was like junk and I didn't care until I got denied for something then I cared you know but just like if you're never into working out until you're in a specific situation where it shows but but but like this guy that's asking this question and I'm glad he's asking the question I'm I'm not I'm trying I'm trying to come off all hard um but he realizes he realizes the value of discipline because he's saying that he wants it right he knows that it's going to make his life better yeah and and

and that's why I think he he he's gotten Jammed up in whatever way. We don't know because I don't know him maybe he's gotten Unhealthy maybe he's you know who knows maybe he's gotten his finances jammed up Whatever the case may be he knows that discipline is better for them him he knows that he does know This isn't a guy that doesn't know yet because sure there's people that don't you know when you're 16 years old You don't know the value of discipline you don't know that the what you're the way you're acting right now is gonna affect you in five years You don't know that you can set yourself your whole life up to be pretty awesome Yeah you don't know that yet you're just like worried

about where you're going on a Friday night right yeah yeah so this guy knows and he wants it and he's looking for where he can find it and where he can find it is in the mirror yeah that's where it is yeah so do it brother good luck get on the path and stay on the path yeah and that's gonna be beneficial when you do that I'm harshly maintaining that like not knowing the value is a big is a big thing it's kind of like Okay, so back to my credit thing. There is a point at the end where, okay, so, you know, like, I don't know, 10 years ago or whatever, I repaired my credit. My credit was repaired.

I went through it. It was painstaking, not fun stuff. But I did it, got my credit repaired, and now I know the value because as an adult I'm functioning. It's useful now, you know? So now I know the value of having good credit because I've been through all the things that having good credit brings you. you through, you know. Now I'm thinking, I'll never go back to bed credit. Right. Never. It's worth it every single day. I'm telling you that I agree with what you're saying. Yeah. I agree with what you're saying. I'm saying that this guy knows the value and that's why he wants it. Yeah. It's like when you

realized that you got denied for something and you were like, oh, oh, credit has value. I understand that now. Yeah, yeah. Something happened in his life where he said discipline has value. I know that now. Yeah. But you did credit repair. And, and what you said was, okay, I need to go. and repair my credit. You didn't say, hey, you know what? My mom didn't tell me about bad credit. Now I have bad credit. Yeah. Yeah. So now, now what am I supposed to do? You know who repaired your credit? Who repaired your credit? Well, it was a combination of my wife and I, but yeah, yeah, yeah. But who repaired your credit? We did it. Yeah, we did that stuff. Yeah. You took responsibility for it and said, okay, I'm going to get my credit. You talked to your wife because she's smarter than you.

And she was like, hey, I will, I will help this. But it was you that said, okay, I got to get this fixed and you got help but you knew to reach out for help but you're the one that ultimately is responsible for it yeah you're right about that like I didn't like I didn't blame my parents and then continue having bad credit right right like you said no I got to get value this this thing has credit has value I need to fix it yeah and you fixed it yeah regardless so what you know oh you don't know how to work out cool then you go hire personal trainer because you know it's gonna it's the right thing to do you know what I mean. Oh, you don't know how to repair your finances. Cool. Go get a counselor that's going to help you repair your finances.

Oh, you're addicted to drugs or alcohol. Okay, I'm going to go find a counselor or join a group so I can get through that thing. No one's going to hold your hand and bring you into any of those situations. You've got to do it yourself. You've got to have the discipline to make it happen. Yeah. Number seven. Good morning. Did you find that people in the military mock those that emphasize the importance of good leadership who take leading and our responsibilities seriously what does that mean mocking like people fun of you yeah like what people in the military making making fun of you because you take leadership super seriously oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah this is an interesting question so it makes me a little bit

nervous because my suspicion is that this individual might be going about being a good leader the wrong way and if you go about It the wrong way people can take offense to it if you're the guy that goes around telling everyone that you're a leader and you're trying to be great leader People will take offense to that You got you like you can't make that part of your thing Right People that talk about the importance of good leadership are they come across as implying that they are good leader And and

That can be offensive especially if you aren't quite as good of a leader as you aren't quite as good a leader as you You think you are. You run around like you don't understand how important leadership is Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just think about that statement right there. You don't understand the importance of leadership echo Mm-hmm all of a sudden I'm basically telling you like I'm a good leader and you're not right? Right When the reality is just the way I'm talking proves that I'm not a good leader Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because I'm talking down to you Yeah, so we have a problem right there and also If if you take leading and are leading responsibilities seriously, what does that actually mean? Does that mean that you can't have any fun with your team?

Does that mean you can't laugh at yourself when you've made a mistake? Does that mean that you are trying so hard to give off the impression that you are a great leader that it appears to everyone else that you aren't really who you act like and that your character is is disingenuous? Right? If I'm if I'm constantly trying to put up this front that I'm the great leader, Everyone starts looking at me thinking that guy's not even he's that's not that's not the real him He's just trying to rock around like a like a He's not true right you think about that you're trying to build trust and as a leader We we're trying to build trust we talked to you dick winners talking about honesty being the most one of the most important traits of

Of a leader But if we're putting up a facade and how we act that does not come across as honest Yeah, and that doesn't build trust in fact it builds the opposite and And also if you have to put up a leadership front, if you have to put up a leadership front, if in other words, if sometimes you have to act a certain way, fake it going back to something earlier. If you have to act and fake like a leader,

that means you might be insecure about your leadership capability and you will come across as insecure and people can sense that insecurity. So that can be very problem. also if you're so into being a good leader that probably means that you have issues Giving up the reins that means that you are probably micromanaging Because you want to be a leader you want to prove to everyone that you're a good leader and so you start micromanaging and No one wants to follow a micromanager. They don't want to do that and if you add

All these things together What what? What do? people end up doing they end up mocking you they end up mocking the things that you think are important like leadership itself they start to make fun of it it's oh man the it's like the needle I think its name is needlemire in animal house is is that the right name I don't know I'm doing a movie reference yeah this is messed up all I can give you John Belushi that's yeah so there's it's like it's like the leader the the the the ROTC guy yeah he's yeah I that's like mr. leader and

everyone makes fun of him yeah he's trying to be a great leader he's trying to be the authoritative figure everyone is making fun of him so you have to be careful in this case I would recommend you move to the center a little bit more meaning that on the one hand you have a leader that isn't building relationship isn't building trust expects people to do as they're told and and treat treat that leader with respect to even though they haven't earned it. That's not a good leader. On the other hand, you have leaders that are too close with the troops,

has very personal relationships, two personal relationships with the team and has lost any semblance of authority over the team. So there's your two extremes. You want to be balanced in the middle. You want to build relationships with your people. You want to build your team up. And also forcing leadership onto people

does not work any more than forcing a religion or a diet or a diet or a, workout or a political belief system and can you make someone from a from a leadership perspective if you have authority over other people can you make someone bow down to your program mechanically for a little while yeah you can you can but if it's not from them if they're not part of it willfully it's not gonna work over time. So, you know, don't beat people up verbally with your leadership lessons.

Don't make it your external religion that you are forcing on people. Internally, yes, of course, obviously, I always thought about leadership. I always thought about leadership. But I wasn't barking it. And I don't even think, I don't even think, like, My best the people that taught me the boast about leadership they never said the word to me about leadership Right and I'm not saying that that's the best course of action because because Sometimes it is good to

You know pull someone aside and say hey This is the way you're acting right now in front of your troops and that that's not going to be effective Sometimes that is good Especially once you've built the relationship because if I don't have a relationship with you echo and I say hey I need to talk to you Hey the way you're treating your guys right now isn't going to go over very well with them What's your reaction gonna be you're gonna be pissed? I'm You think, oh, you don't know my guys.

I know them better than you. We're going to have a problem. I accomplished nothing. My coaching and mentoring of you was horrible because we didn't have a relationship. So you're not listening. And obviously, of course, when I start coaching and mentoring,

that implies that I'm the greatest leader of all time. That's my implied statement. You suck, I'm great. Which people reject that as well, especially when you're not that great of a leader in the first place. So don't talk about it so much. just lead be a good leader open up discussions take a wrap off come from the flank instead of going

straight on maneuver tactically and tactfully get into their heads and make better leaders by actually leading yes kind of like that lead you know lead by example kind of thing it kind of makes you like the question kind of how you said in the beginning it makes you wonder he says The question is do you find the people in the military mock those that emphasize the importance of good leadership? You kind of think to yourself, I wonder how this person is emphasizing the importance of good. Is he the guy at the party who, you know, people are talking about, I don't know, the food or something, then he just bust out leadership stuff. You know, that guy, you know, who's like everything under, like the ROTC guy. Yeah, like the ROTC guy.

Just everything. He's just pushing it everything, you know, leadership is everything. Leadership is everything, right, we weren't even talk about that. Leadership is everything kind of thing. And by the way, this is coming from a person, me, that I literally talk about leadership all the time. That's how you actually think. Yeah, and I actually think that way. And I get up on stage and in companies and in front of military members and police officers. And I talk about leadership.

That's what I talk about all the time. Yeah. And that's what, you know what's interesting? That's what makes about face by Colonel David Hackworth. one of the best things about that book is it's not a leadership book. He doesn't talk. He barely talks about,

he barely says a straightforward sentences that this is how you lead. It's all from the flank. And that's why it gets you so well because it's from the flank. Yeah. It's not a book about leadership. It doesn't even say,

you know, how many books get published all the time? You know, this is a leadership book. I wrote a book with Laif. How to lead and win. Yeah. Hackworth did it better. Hackworth's like, oh, this is about war.

Read it. Yeah. Yeah, in a way. I dig what you're saying, but obviously that's your job. Well, I guess my point is that if you're, if this is coming from someone who talks about leadership all the time, literally wrote a book about leadership.

Yeah. And I'm saying, hey, you might not want to talk about leadership. That's my point, right? Yeah, yeah. That's my point. Yeah. Good point. Just, just, just back off a little bit.

Yeah. If you were like you know you go on the road you do one of your you know your deals and then you know at dinner With your family you start going into your leadership stuff with them That's what you shouldn't do. Yes, yes, but I'm what I'm saying is with your team with your platoon You don't sit there and say all right today. We're gonna talk about leadership again. Yeah, you don't quote unquote emphasize the importance of Good leadership right you you just lead you just lead yeah do that they're smarter than you think there you know what you're into doing all is you're kind of condescending you can't help it because you're treating them like they don't know you want to talk about the importance of leadership they

know what the importance of leadership they're in the military yeah in fact an example of their reaction of how people take it when you start preaching to them you know how they take it they mock you that's a lesson learned you that's a lesson learned if people are mocking you They're not taking you seriously. That means you're doing something wrong. What you're doing wrong in this case is you're condescendingly talking to them about the importance of leadership. They know what the importance of leadership is. They're in the military. They know how bad it is to have a bad platoon sergeant or a bad platoon commander. They know You don't need to rub it in their face. Yeah. I remember I think I told you the story about one of my friends. I'm not going to name his name because I'm certain you know he's a Navy SEAL. We're at a party and he got he got joke and he's Sitting at the table explaining to all of us how badass Navy SEALs are yeah like for a long time too This is and he even said those words Navy Seals are just so badass like we're so badass and this is why and all this stuff

It's the exact same thing because we know Navy SEals are badass but you sitting here Telling us how badass you and all Navy Seals are is gonna make us mock you a little bit Yeah, they're gonna get mocked a lot you're gonna get mocked by other Navy SEALs are By the way. For sure. Doing that stuff. Anyway. Check.

Well, I'm glad that this guy is asking the question. I'm glad that the guy is focused on leadership. And I hope that these points can come across and be digested with no, you know, it's really easy to get offended by what I'm saying, right? Yeah. If you're him, you're like, well, he just doesn't get it. You know what I mean? It's really easy to say that.

Yeah. You know, it's easy for him to say. He doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm the one that's here I'm trying to get these guys to be better You know I'm trying to get my platoon to understand the importance of leadership I know man I know and I respect that I like the fact that you're have that mindset man That's true that's awesome that's awesome that's awesome come from the flank a little bit Come from the flank man you're not gonna you're not gonna you're not gonna get that get it done this way Yeah, it's kind of like if you try to convince everyone that you're the most humble person in the world

You know nobody more humble than me yeah, I'm the most humble I'm humbler than that guy I'm humbler than you. I'm humbler than anyone's who've ever lived. I'm just the most humble guy in the world. It just doesn't work like that. No, it doesn't work that one. Next question. Jocko, how do you lead a team of volunteers?

How to punish or discipline them? Can't threaten to fire them because they're all I have. I know a leader does so much more than threaten and punish, but I need some guidance. Try to motivate but feel the need to do it. Do more. Thanks. Try and answer this one quickly. Because this is kind of a question I've answered before in a different form.

Do they understand why they're doing what they're doing? And do they understand why it's important? Do they understand how what they are doing will benefit them? Do they also see you working hard to try and make things happen? So those are just the basic questions. Let's just get those out there every time. Every time someone's not doing what you want them to do, do they understand why they're doing what they're doing do they understand why it's important to the mission and do they understand

how being successful in the mission will benefit them so so let's just get those out of the way next what can we do here have you gamified the situation at all how you like that gamified right have you gamified the situation because I realize that's a term that's getting thrown around now but we would gamify stupid things all the time in the seal teams to make them fun yeah right how much brass can you pick up let's see I'll pick up more than you my squad will pick up more brass and you'll pick up all of a sudden we're running around the range trying to pick up One of the most miserable things that you have to do in the zeal teams is pick up brass off the hot range in the summertime

And you do it for for like two days because once you get done with all your work you got to go pick up Millions of rounds of brass spread out all over the desert in in August in the Imperial Valley It's hot it sucks, but guess what we're gonna do have a contest Yeah, you know, so what are you gonna do to gamify it? Like what kind of cool competition? Around some short-term goal can you set up? That's gonna be that's gonna make it fun for them some kind of cool reward What about some kind of friendly bets around achieving something like I bet if I raise this much money

You know I will go to work with a pair of underwear on my head or you have to you know what I mean Whatever these stupid bets You know what we used to do in the teams is we'd bet one dollar One of my old run-in-mates We we had something like critical I bet you one dollar Yeah that was like the biggest bet you

You could make because it's just it's pure pride. Yeah. Yeah. And then we'd always have fun if you were collecting or if you're giving the dollar. Collecting the dollar was just totally glorious. Yeah. Giving the dollar was shame. Yeah. Yeah. Like you could add like okay when you give me this dollar. A, it has to be in front of everybody. B, you have to, I don't know, you have to do it while like walking on your knees or something. Something real community meaning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But we didn't even have to do all that. Yeah. Between me and my run of mate, if we won or lost. the bet it was like you know and in in you wouldn't even ask for the money you just look at him in this buddy mind he had one of the most classic looks when he give you the look

when I lose a bet to him and he gave me the look I I I wanted to cry yeah yeah he lost so much more than that yeah lost a lot so maybe you make a bet for a dollar and if that's not working okay now that's not work if you can't game of five you can't have fun with it maybe ask them while they're why they are there and and out what their motivation is for being there and how you can tie that into something concrete and then also like you might have some people that aren't really into this and then lower your expectations of this particular group of people and go out recruit some people that want to get after it Yeah have some fun fun goes a long way. Yeah Fun goes a long way having fun doing things goes a long way and and that praise thing to you know when you said like add like a reward or something for because a lot of times especially volunteers where so you know and we all feel this like

even at work you can have like a super fun job but you get you'll people generally speaking to get complacent in one way or another you know when things are routine or things are you know not as exciting or whatever um and you know when you're volunteering and that happens it's kind of like you're not tied there by a paycheck really you know which is just it's just a powerful tie you know that people have to work it's like yeah i don't like my job but it's pays the bills and paying the bills is a big kind of thing. So if you add that element of excitement or fun or, you know, little personal payoff in one way or another,

I think that helps a lot of the time. Indeed. And that tends to happen too. If the, I'm not saying this person is doing this or not doing this, but like if they become kind of complacent and not recognizing how much they, they appreciate the volunteers, you know,

like if they're just like, oh yeah, this is just business as usual, you know, thanks for coming in. That's kind of it kind of thing. And they're, you know,

then it just gets kind of blah, you know, like there's not the payoff that they used to have, you know? But if you can kind of keep that going, keep them in the game. Next question. Do I need to keep training jujitsu if I hate it? I mean, can I just live my life the way I think it should be, which is of health, energy,

and becoming a force of nature as a doctor without dreaming up of some invisible enemies on the street that I've yet to come across in preparing and spending my pittance of wage, of a wage on lessons that I hate in every sorts of ways for something that might be avoided, physical clash, if I learned to use

wit and saving my money to move into a good neighborhood, and I've been successful in preventing physical clashes to occur. I've learned basic ways to escape the mount, I can run, I'm fairly strong, isn't that enough? Okay, so, yeah,

bro, um, Jiu-Jitsu is not the meaning of life. All right? Jiu Jitsu has a lot of I mean I find Jiu Jitsu very enjoyable I get a lot out of it beyond Physical training beyond self-defense yeah, I get a lot out of it and I apply it in all different sorts of realms in my life But if you hate it And and you've learned some basic ways to defend yourself the escape them out maybe some basic guards type stuff

Then then okay I mean Then step away. I mean you shouldn't be going through life doing something that you hate if I were you I'd still train occasionally even if it's just like once every two or three weeks Once a month just to keep some of the ideas fresh and also also there's always the possibility that'll click in your head and you'll realize this there's like a magical thing that you could get out of the Jiu Jitsu And it's kind of like waking up you know waking up at 4.30 in the morning That's what time I wake up and and first of all I'm genetically predisposed to sleep less than and most people and for instance we just had daylight savings time and yeah and so and I went to bed so I sat back my clock and it was it was like 940 at night so went from 1040 when I was going to bed I set back my clock and now it's 940 yeah yeah and I said

oh cool you know I'll sleep extra hour mm-hmm we know what time I woke up like 2 48 yeah yeah and then I I laid in bed saying no sleep more sleep more sleep more I couldn't do it so I got out about at 3 30 but that's that's me and and and that's that's just me and it depends what your schedule is it depends on what your genetic makeup is for sleep and if you work the night shift then obviously you're working at 430 in the morning or you're getting off at work at 430 in the morning so this just doesn't work and I try and put that caveat on pretty much everything that I say like my workouts what I eat everyone's a little bit

different and I like what I like and and I do what I do and it works for me and you can try it Then if you come up with something that's better I'll listen to you And that's the same with Jiu Jitsu man if you hate it Then you know, maybe it's not for you and and and You know what I what I truly think might my true thought? Is it beneficial for you? Yes, it is Mm-hmm Should you stop doing everything that you don't like just because you don't like it? No, I mean there's something

that you should press on should you get it should everyone have a fundamental level of knowledge of jih Tjitsu it's very very beneficial yeah but if you hate it and and you've kind of come that conclusion then don't do it yeah and and I think also once you give yourself that out once you give yourself the out and you're not forcing yourself to do it anymore yeah it might open up your mind to actually enjoy it and try it and not be miserable about it yeah Yeah, that's what actually what I was going to say. I was like, they're probably, and I don't know,

but easily, some people don't like it straight up. I got to accept that. I know, I know. But that being said, there is a possibility that the environment that this person or that people train in sometimes will make you not like it. And it's not necessarily the jiu-jitsu you don't like. Sure, not it wound up that way. You don't like jih Tijuana anymore because you were kind of.

of you know pushed in the wrong direction as far as like what you like like so you could try a different school try a different school yeah like I said earlier today some schools are really strict and rigid and maybe that would be better for you some schools are real wild and there's no control maybe that that be a better school depending on what your personality is some people like that regimented environment yeah yeah you could you could definitely try a different school but again I think I think the mental hurdle to come over is you've told yourself that you have to do it and now tell yourself you don't have to do it if you don't want to but certain in and you say try a different school it's the environment that you train in so the school is part of the environment

for sure but it's like training partners it's like the which can wind up as the pressure you put on yourself it's like everything you know the whole environment so i know that and people are different people told some people they want that pressure they want people yelling you know like remember i used to tell you like when you start coaching either me just in training you know like you'll get fired up when you see two people training you know like you'll get fired up when you see two and whatever and you'll be like do this with it and you'll start coding it's almost like you're like as a friend you're doing it like just for fun and you're like okay do this and you usually coach up the other guy when i'm rolling with him and that other guy oh he's getting coached by jaco so

he turns up the heat and bro i don't like that because it's now it's like a thing you know i don't like that but some people do like that some people that get some fired up it gets them more in the game you know so i'm saying people are different so the positive Is that this guy happens to be in the wrong environment for Jiu Jitsu for him for himself yes exactly so that is a possibility and just like I said You know he he could very well be putting that pressure on himself like you have to go and everyone's saying how great it is and it's the best thing and if you don't show up to practice You're whack and you're lame or get out that's true you know like if you get told all the time it's the best thing in the world and and and then you show up there and you get beat up which is what happens Yes and you and now you're like how does everyone like this yeah this doesn't feel good to me and you just go in a negative

mindset right at yeah so yeah should be careful that and that's not to mention when you even imply that you don't necessarily like it oh yeah because you suck oh yeah because you're this or you're weak or you're whatever you're a slacker like basically all this negativity you know it's going to turn you off even more so now yeah you hate it now yeah which which there's a reality of it is some some things don't agree with some people right that's that's a reality Like there's some things in the world that I don't I know I I I just don't like them Like when we were driving to LA you're playing some music yeah some of the music that you're playing is is popular music Yeah, I I just don't like it. I just don't like it

And and there's other things like that in the world I'm trying to think of things that I just just like other people like them yeah, and I just don't like them I just don't Pokemon go that's why Yeah, I mean, I've never even thought about Pokemon Go. It seems like a cool idea. You look for things on your phone. I mean, that's not the type of thing that I'm talking about. You know, I guess dancing at the club.

I mean, I don't care about it. I'm trying to think of something that's, I guess music is the best, is one of the best examples for me is, you know, hey, this certain types of music, certain artists. Yeah. Like Leif. Laif Leif likes hair Leif likes hair metal from the 90s He legit likes it Right and I like legit

Do not like it And the reason I use the reason that's a good example Is because that's not far off From kind of the music that I do like Yeah yeah I mean I like I like Led Zeppelin I mean I love Led Zeppelin right Led Zeppelin's awesome

And and the step from Led Zeppelin to To poison I mean you could You could be in the same record category in the store, right? Rock and roll. Led Zeppelin, I love.

Poison kind of turns my stomach. I hate it. And so that's an example of, so some things, they just don't sit well with you. Yeah. And maybe Jiu Jitsu doesn't sit well with this guy. Now, like I said, I think there's a lot of benefits to it. I think you get a lot out of it. Try a different environment.

But if you hate it, don't force yourself to do it. Open the escape. Yeah, right? Give yourself an out and that allows you to feel more comfortable because when you feel trapped Everyone feels like a cornered animal and now you're just pissed off yeah You if you've been like hey these guys everyone I hear everyone talking about Jitsu so I'm gonna try it Yeah, and now your first day you don't like it yeah, but you're like I'm gonna keep doing it because everyone's saying it's great And you just end up in a bad way yeah so be careful with that one yeah you're kind of trapped with it with the junk parts of it Yeah that kind of came about and yeah and you can't really escape it then you're like

rebel against it. Yeah. Yeah. Remember when we were driving up to L.A.? I was playing Carrie by Europe. That is actually technically an 80s hair metal. Yeah, that's an 80s, yeah, for sure.

But you're really mad. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm telling you that music doesn't sit well with me for some reason. You got a little bit even more. And going back to LaFleck, Leifleck likes Metallica, Laflexs Black Sabbath, Leifleaks tool. He likes rocking bands too. Yeah.

For some reason, there's some genetic code in his head that poisons cool. Yeah, just lets it. Right in huh? Mine gets the and hole. Yeah. But then I guess on the other end of the spectrum, you get, we get into music that Laif,

and like Laif likes Pantera. Pantera is a hard band. Now I go one step further than Pantera, right? Sure, of course. Some of the music that I listen to, which I think leaves Laf a little bit where he wouldn't listen to some of the harder music that I listen to, but Pantera's, you know, brushing up against it.

Hey, do you listen to soft music? What do you consider soft music? There's some, I don't know, something about love, I don't know so you know something soft you know what I'm saying I'd say white buffalo white buffalo okay is hard acoustic music but you know he's got some pretty mellow songs he got a song called love song number one what's it about though like is he is it like romantic you know is he talking about his love I would say yes I would say yes yeah it kind of doesn't count because you know how like well how can that not count I

don't know because you know how like like Metallica for example they have unforgiving right so it sounds soft But they're still talking about hard stuff. Okay, and then they have like enter Sandman, which is okay, well, and I guess I'm just not no My answer to you is no like like do you like what about Led Zeppelin by? See, you're still talking about like these aren't soft things like you know. Okay, so I was playing Al Juro Remember? Remember Al Jero? And you were like what the fuck is this and you were pissed? You were mad at me Personally like you and you were like who is this and no no no you know what though? You know what though? I Actually, I played another song.

Oh, who was it? He was like Josh Raiden or something. And you were like, hey, this is pretty good. I was very surprised. It was a soft song. Okay. Do you remember? Well, my musical tastes are varied.

Yeah, yeah. I like different types of music. Yeah, so I guess sometimes. But there's some types of music that I don't like. Yeah, I sometimes wonder with you, like, if you're the kind. You know how some people, they just, just, I like music. Not, I'm not saying me. I'm just saying certain people they are into just a specific type of,

music that's it that's the whole reason for music in their head is like this very specific feeling like some people that um that I'd know before they they only like house music they only like anything other than the house music is like it's just they'll rather listen to nothing so I was wondering if you're like kind of that kind no where because I listen all different kinds of music yeah well at least just not maybe not all different yeah no no okay you're right I listen to a wide range of music various types sure there you go not algero though

i forget the song but it was maybe we can refer back to it later some other time cool all right next question how about that dang i kind of feel bad for the guy who hates jujitsu that's kind of crazy yeah it's a bummer but it's it's not that rare

yeah makes sense it totally makes sense and i was actually talking with you know dave camereo sure i know who that is i don't know i'm person well um i was up with him up in san francisco area yesterday and we were talking about how some people don't like jiu jitzu and you'd think even people that are you would think would like jiu jitsu people that have jobs that jiu jitsu would be really beneficial for them to know yeah they don't like jiu jitsu and and so and i was saying that i've introduced a lot of people to jiu jitsu a lot of people to jihitsu not many of them have

actually stuck with it for a long period of time Yeah, but and and so it's not that rare for people to not like Jiu Jitsu. Yeah, and I, I dig it's like not sticking with it because Jiu Jitsu takes work. It's not like the easy thing that provides just a bunch of massages. Oh, you're saying there's a difference between not liking Jitzu and not actually sticking with it. Yes, yes. So this guy's straight up, I hate it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a little bit more powerful of a statement.

Yeah, yeah, he definitely doesn't like it. People who don't stick with it for the most part. This is just a total guess on my part. Yeah, lazy and lack discipline. Yeah, like, that's a little bit. They just, they, they, they, they don't like it enough on a kind of moment to moment basis to get off the couch and go. That's kind of it, you know? That's one of those situations.

Next question. Jocko, I have a question after reading your book, which I thought was one of the best books I've read since your last book. Nice. I'm curious what, what you did during your seal team days to maintain your schedule, as I would have mentioned. imagine in the teams your schedule changes at any minute to include you being deployed or active during your various missions at night. So, as in life, how do you keep your balance of your schedule when duty calls? In your book, you say, keep your schedule, but how did you work through this when you would be on a mission that didn't allow you to sleep at night? Did you still,

did you still the following day upon return maintain your normal schedule? Appreciate your time response great yeah obviously the teams the your schedule in the teams can vary a lot and you have to adopt to what makes sense and sometimes in the teams you're working 18 20 hour days sometimes out in the field you're going to the field for two three four five days at a time sometimes you're working for 24 hours a day or you work for 36 hours straight because you do planning in the bubble blah so that can be problem sometimes you're doing dives you're doing two dives a day and that takes a bunch of time and it takes a toll on you it's hard work I guess you could

say sometimes we're running around all day or all night running around the desert running around the urban training facility and so the schedule's changing all the time and it's the same thing with business the same thing with business right now I travel and the flight leaves early the flight leaves late or the work all day or the dinner with the clients or the interview or the writing or the the recording of the podcast or the changing time zones and things just change and so what what I do is yes I try and I try and keep the schedule as much as I can and if I fall off the schedule for whatever reason I get back on it as quickly as possible and I think so so yes you do the best you can I think the main thing you have to watch out for is letting letting a change in schedule

or a problem in your schedule be an excuse to fall off the path right that that's what you have to watch out for you know we think oh I'm in a new time zone or I've got jet lag or I didn't sleep well or I need rest from traveling or I did this the other night and so I'm gonna sleep until 930 to morning and just call it good that's what you have to watch out for now sometimes do you need to work till 9th do you sleep till 930 yeah sometimes you do sometimes you stayed up for 36 hours you go to bed at three o'clock in the morning guess what you might need to sleep until 930 that's cool good do it get some sleep but just

be careful of using it as an excuse to go way off the path and just get yourself back on the path as soon as possible yeah make sense Yes, sir. Yeah, that's all me right there like one little thing on my schedule throws off This whole day is gone. I'll do it tomorrow He's got to be careful not speaking of schedule I think we're about good for questions. There's one more thing that I wanted to close out with and you know I get a lot of I get a lot of really a great emails I got a lot of great

messages through social media letters written letters written letters and I get all those kinds of things and I appreciate them all I don't always respond to all of them because there's I I physically cannot do it Yeah, and of course, you know, oh get someone to manage your social media or whatever I'm not doing that Um, if you hear back from me you hear from me not from somebody that I paid $10 an hour to respond to my stuff and say cool get after it like no Not doing that but you know I get I get all these things and I do read So if you send it, I read it. And so I appreciate the feedback and everything.

I got one though that I that was good. I wanted to actually wanted to read on here because I felt that it not only said, hey, thanks for, you know, the podcast or whatever, thanks for the books, whatever. It actually gave some pretty good methodology and really an inset into a mindset that I think will help people doing what they're doing. So here we go, Mr. Willink. go mr. Willink just wanted to share a quick story with you at 39 I had fallen into a 15 year rut of undisciplined alcoholism I was soft and heavy and wanted to change earlier this year I had started working out three to four times a week in my basement I was trying and

failing to get a handle on my alcohol abuse every failure made the beast seem bigger and unbeatable it was like I didn't have control over my body I finished your book on a Monday night and decided that I would get up early the next morning and work out I got up and worked out not much but I just wanted to do something Sit-ups push-ups 15 minutes on the bike worked out twice Tuesday Got up Wednesday and did it again got to Thursday night a normal drinking night and decided to try not drinking made it through Friday same thing worked out morning and night stayed busy and stayed away from the drink thought I should try and push it through the weekend worked out Saturday morning took the rest of the

weekend off and stayed dry Monday morning I got up and started two days again made it through the week with 11 workouts by the second week I felt better than I had in my entire life I was astounded that normal people walked around feeling this good I guess not systematically poisoning your body will do that on the fifth week I got a project at work that was going to require traveling for the next eight weeks I was worried about overcoming my triggers and road habits the normal traveling evening was dinner watch cable and drink eight beers To my surprise the hotel at a sweet gym cool I'll just keep doing what I'm doing Then at the site I found out that we would start work at 6 a.m

Damn, that means I have to get up at 4 to work out I'm 12 weeks into my traveling two a days usually getting 11 to 12 workouts a week They recently moved our start time to 7 a.m. So now I get an hour and a half in the morning and evening I'm 16 weeks clean drop 30 pounds or more haven't been on a scale in three weeks 34 waist jeans hang off of me my sit up and push-up sets went from 10 to 40 to 50 kettlebell swings went from 35 by 10 to 50 by 15 I started to learn how to run as I haven't done it in 20 years now after a day off I can do two miles

without stopping. I do four to five miles on the treadmill and nine miles on the bike besides the sit-ups, push-ups, kettlebells, core, and weights. I look forward to next year's competitive shooting season.

I'm going to bring it. At this point, my cravings are gone and I actually recoil from the smell of booze. When I started this, I thought it would be temporary. Now it's going to be permanent. No reason to waste time with it anymore

Now when I question something your voice comes to me with the hard answer It's only black and white with no gray area One day when I'm standing before the Lord Lord and hear his voice if it doesn't sound like yours. I might be disappointed The book I read those months ago Was the way of the warrior kid I'm working on extreme ownership now Thank you for your service Thank you for producing a badass podcast and thank you for influencing my life. So there you go. And I say this to people all the time. Most important here is it isn't me. It's you. And sure you may have grabbed some little foothold from the podcast or from one of the books, but it isn't me that changes you. It's you. You set the small goal. You achieve those goals then set some more and achieve those and set some more goals maybe a little bit bigger but not that much bigger

You pay attention to the progress this guy is 16 weeks deep 30 pounds lighter Working harder stronger faster more efficient competitive The individual that wrote that is getting after it and changing his life and you can to start small start with changing tomorrow morning just tomorrow morning get that squared away and then move on to the next day and the next and move your life to a better place one little step little victory appreciate the letter and I think that's all I've got for tonight so echo speaking of people getting better, stronger, and faster,

and actually supporting the podcast. If they want to do that, do you have any suggestions for us? Sure, of course I do. I can talk about the fact that origin has a new key coming out. Good on. I don't know that the name of the geese,

you know, geese have names, you know, like, well, origin does. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? That's a cool name, too, by the way. Axiom but this one is called I think discipline discipline I think it's called discipline I think it might be called discipline yeah Not the discipline just this discipline it could be called that sure you could check it out origin main.com right? Yeah Surprisingly aesthetically great

I would say it's I would say it's probably Is the term they use like on brand on brand meaning it it kind of? I? It kind of? I would say it's probably? I would say it's probably? Is the term they use like on brand? On brand meaning it it kind of Fits. Fits. Fits your brand. Okay. Sure. Influenced by jaw. Yeah.

Yeah, it totally does. It, um, it's like, yeah, it's not the kind where, you know how like some geese, like, you look at them, you can tell there's like all these bells and whistles as far as decorations go. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good word. Decorations. Yeah, yeah.

So, but here's the thing, though, there are some, there are some, uh, how should I say, functional decorations. Now that's not actually a good word for it. Anyway, it looks cool. Put it that way. It looks cool. In a little basic way. Kind of lighter weight one for functionality.

But awesome. Nonetheless, look at it. I got a white one. I know you got the black one. How do you know I don't have both? Yeah, I'm sure you didn't have both. And I'm still working on the black one, but that's a long story.

Nonetheless, it's a good one. And a lot like back when we first started everyone would ask them the I don't want to say everyone, but a lot of people, you know, I don't like that. Yeah, I know you don't like saying that. Like yeah, a lot of people. You just have to say some people. Some people. Some people. But the thing is a lot of people, though. It's like a lot of people ask what gee should I get?

I'm making the disclaimer. It was a lot of people. It wasn't the kind like, oh, you know, my little brother asked me once and then asked me again. It was, it's a lot of people. maybe two times a week. Two times a week for two years, by the way. That's a lot of people. Asking the same exact question.

Anyway, they asked like, oh, what kind of ghee should I get or whatever? Now there's like, yeah, origin geese. And then now I'm saying, get this one. This is the one. Straight up. Check. I don't know that I'll wear any other ghee. I'm not saying I won't.

I'm just saying I don't know that I. Yeah. And actually, I don't know if you know this. Did you know that they're going to sell this ghee? and a certain number of them, 400, you're going to get a copy of Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. Oh, dang, yeah. Signed.

I signed them all. So if you want to sign copy, you'd get that ghee and, yeah, it'd be cool. It's like a little package. A little package. Yeah. A little discipline package. Yeah. If you end up hating Jiu-Jitsu, what do you do?

To hang up the ghee. Hang it up. Hang up the ghee. Hopefully you don't hate Jiu-Zitsu like that one question today. Yeah. Hopefully you love Jiu-Jitsu. Most likely you'll love Jiu-Jitsu. You could, yeah, hopefully.

Yeah, if you're getting the discipline equals freedom gie, is it discipline equals freedom-guet or just discipline? I think it might just be all the deaf-ghee. I don't know. Def-guer. Well, yeah, that's good. D.E.F. Discipline equals freedom. It's good.

It's embroidered as the American made. Yeah, and it is made in America like all the words and stuff, by the way. Yeah. That's a good one. Anyway, look at that one. Get that one. If you're still looking for a ghee, get that one. Even if you're not looking for a ghee.

Just look at this key. Brandon Pickworth. He said on Twitter he's gonna get the ghee even though he's not training Jiu-Jitsu and actually I Have I didn't respond to Brandon, but I'll respond right now get the ghee and Train Jiu-Jitsu yeah yeah, yeah it's the kind where he's gonna he's gonna, by the way Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's gonna it's like he but then train Jiu-jitsu dude Yeah, he's gonna come on I get that's my bet I would I almost am challenging him to prove me wrong That's how much he already went and proved to everyone that he could do a hundred burpees and

10 minutes. He was a challenge for him. It was hard for him. Yeah. But he did it. Yeah. And that was his original challenge by the way. Yeah. He's gonna, you can't just get the ghee. Yeah. When you put it on. And this goes for pretty much any like legitimate ghee. When you put it on your your, you're like, you're like, you ever, um, like we, we did it in Maine. Like it happens all the time. When you had, you put on the ghee just to, you know, feel it. And when I grab it, you're like, oh, it's time, you know, kind of thing. Same thing with the rash cards too. Same exact thing. Yeah. Exactly right. Cool the and this geese no different in fact it might even have that

Even more yeah that feeling yeah yeah good nonetheless um yeah so it comes from origin if you didn't already pick that part up Origin main dot com there's a lot of geese on there even if you want to get a another one other than the you know what I do I have all the patches that you know how like like like knock on Nolan and you know all that they'll give you like their their Police patches and stuff like that. I'm gonna have all of them on my ghee, all of them. How many do you have? About 12. Okay, because I have like 90.

I've got so many awesome patches from fire departments, police departments, military units all over the country, foreign. Yeah, I got a lot of stuff. Yeah. That would be a big ghee. Yeah. You got to put them on multiple geese if you got the black and the white. Yeah, well, it wouldn't have enough room. Yeah.

A lot of patches, bro. Yeah. Yeah, and there's certain places you can't really put them to so that even limits you more But I'm doing it I'm starting it and if I run out of space I'm getting another gie boom I'm gonna keep it going I do kind of risk people saying hey, you're not law enforcement Why are you wearing that patch like some of those patches? Yeah, to me seem like you like you give me a NASA one Like that's yeah shoot should I be even wearing this patch? Yeah, we got we got friends at NASA Boom, I'm gonna wear it and we'll say this is from my friends at NASA

Yeah, straight up. Anyway, Anyway, back to origin. Origin, that's all American-made stuff. From the cotton out of the ground, American. To the factory, American factory, in America,

in Maine. Make the material, make the clothing, make the geese, make the rash guards, make the, what else are there? Some bags,

some tag. Yeah, yeah. Gym bags and whatnot. Accessories, I believe they're called. Accessories, yeah. They're like beanie. and t-shirts all made in america yeah i think when i told jordan peterson that i think he liked it yeah even though he's not america yeah yeah and and the supplements yeah from origin labs yeah

those are jaco supplements so here's the thing i'm gonna all go into the details later but super krill there is a legitimate difference between super krill in regular krill oil there is and it's very beneficial. I'm not going to say it right now, but just no. Super krill oil, Jocko brand, joint warfare, Jocko brand for your joints, supplements. Boom, Jocko came out with it. That's the stuff. From the beginning, that was the main supplements, you know, joint stuff, krill oil. You're the number one reason, not even the number, the only reason I started taking it. And I'm kind of mad I didn't take it before. Yeah, you were behind. Yeah. And now you got your own one, which is even better.

Yeah, it's super as a matter of fact Super, yeah, but it's not just a name though And the joint warfare The joint warfare has some magic in it Sure In my opinion Sure And in my shoulders's opinion

Yeah, my left shoulder Both on my shoulders My back and my elbows So yeah, orjimangin.com That's the place to go Also Some legitimate fitness gear Everyone knows I'm into kettlebells now

I get mine from on it They're the cool one straight up That's it I don't think I could go back to regular kettlebells That's my opinion Got the werewolf Got the big foot

90 pounds, 2 pounds heavier Than Jocko's heaviest kettlebell Every rep I think Jordan Peterson was impressed with that too by the way Yeah, he was That makes one of us Also Oh sorry

Onet.com slash jaco That's the one Anyway also Good way to support When you buy books that Jocker reviews, I guess technically I kind of help review them. In a real kind of distant way.

Indirect, yes, indirect, distant way. Anyway, those books, very compelling books. When you get them, go through the website, joccalpodcast.com. Little tab on the top says books from podcasts, go through there. Buy the books through there. That's a good way to support. Take it at Amazon, shop just the way, you know, Prime, one day shipping, whatever you choose, just like anything else.

But go through that as a good way to support and do any other shopping you have to do. Carry on. Good way to support. Also, subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, depending on what kind of platform you prefer or is available to you. Because iPhone, I think, doesn't have Stitcher, right? No, my iPhone has Stitcher. Oh, wait, no. Android doesn't have iOS.

know Apple yeah I don't think you could listen to it maybe I don't know either I don't know but you can get it man yeah podcast is out there you can subscribe to it the point is subscribe to it yes yes subscribe to it on now one so good leave a review if you want if you're in the mood leave a review also subscribe to it on YouTube the video version of this podcast is a good one still and I still do get the the whole thing like oh echo you don't look like you sound mm-hmm and I remember change the way you talk Yeah, yeah. Or change the way I look.

I don't know. You never know. Get skinny. Yeah. Get less jacked. That is. It is kind of an intuitive thing. Hey, YouTube comments.

Like one out of every 20 YouTube comments is echoes jacked. Yeah. Oh, that's funny. It kind of is because you wouldn't think that you could determine what someone looks like by what they sound like, but it feels like you can. I think a lot of times you can. I don't know though actually now that you think about like talk show hosts on radios and yeah you don't know what yeah it's kind of can't I guess it's it's it's it's harder to do than you think yeah it feels like you can yeah you feel like if someone has like a I don't know like a deep voice you think they're huge or something you know like something like that not necessarily true yeah not true at all remember that Seinfeld one no there the guy was like she I think Elaine who's the girl in there she's like she's like oh he had a a good looking voice or something like he sounded like he was good looking or something like that

how'd it turn out uh i think i don't know i forget i think he was good looking jeez that was not worth telling that story you didn't even remember it yeah the analogy i didn't remember it but it reminded me of that nonetheless anyway youtube subscribe to youtube that's the point there regardless of if you want to know what i look like or not doesn't even matter what i look like really barely maybe a little bit i guess maybe i see because if I see you out in the wild, we can recognize each other if you know what I look like.

Beneficial. There's times when people will recognize you and you'll like say, oh yeah, this is Echo Charles and you can tell on their face, they're like, oh, wait, are you sure that this is Echo Charles? You know, kind of thing? I've encountered that for sure. For real, like I know.

Oh, okay, for sure. Just listen. That's cool. I dig it. But if you want to avoid that kind of situation, subscribe to YouTube. Good way to do it. And good way to support.

Also, jaco is a store. It's called jaco store. Jocco store.com. We have t-shirts on there if you want these t-shirts. I'm wearing my good t-shirt right now. I haven't worn this one. The original. The original.

It's really high quality. Layers, too, by the way. The good is backwards to look at in the mirror. That message is for you. If you think about the whole message of good, I mean, I know you said it. You know, you're like, good. kind of thing, but you were kind of,

like you guys had the, the luxury of you being there to be able to explain it. If someone's going through like something hard, it's, you can't just automatically just say good. It kind of comes off, kind of weird. Yeah. Potentially. That's why I put this backwards, because it's like, you tell yourself good. You see what I'm saying?

That's the layer. That's the little inside to the layer. I'm not going to go deep, and I'm not going to go into any of the other explanations for the other layers, but just know that they have layers on all the clothing on jocco store.com. Check it out. I'm not saying to buy something. I'm saying, go on there, look on there. If you like something, get something. Good way to support. There's a women's stuff on there. T-shirts, like I said, some patches, rash guards for jihitsu or anything physical, cycling, anything requiring range of motion, maybe some compression situations.

high aesthetic value but not too high because it's more about functionality that's my take on the whole deal but they do look good and they have layers hoodies are in being shipped out right now they're in heavy do you have one no dang girl sorry well we are in California so yeah it's not that big of a deal you know you got your old one it's all good uh but yeah there's some hoodies on there. Some Warrior Kids rash guards are coming. Boom.

Because people have been asking me about that. I wore one. That was like a test one. And I wore one when I was training with Dave Burke. And they're like, oh,

Warrior Kid Rashgard, you know, whatever. But I was trying to narrow down kind of the colors and stuff. But they're narrowed down and they should be available within the next week and a half.

Where are those made? Those are made all in America. Nice. All in America. Warrior Kid Rashgards. Also, there's another kind of cool. fun one but I won't talk about that one until later.

Also, good way to support yourself, psychological warfare. If you don't know what that is, it's an album with tracks, Jocko tracks, and there are to aid you in the event of you needing aid in your campaign against weakness on your path, on the path. Okay, so here's the thing about the path.

It's not always going to be easy. You know what I'm saying? I know what you're saying. Yeah, every day. man, this is not a one-day gig. This is an everyday gig. Every day is a Monday. Yeah. On the path.

Here's, I will say this, though. Okay, so, and you read the letter for the guy with drinking. I could relate to that deeply, deeply could relate to that. And in a way, and I don't want to go too deep into it, but in a way, the, my situation was, in a way, harder because the drinking wasn't prevent. me from working out it wasn't preventing me from doing like a lot of stuff it was only preventing me from doing like a handful of things but those things I really wanted to do but it was really preventing me or it was put it this way it was making it super difficult and then just

a fact of like I'm drinking every single day you know kind of thing and the more you do you know the more you get in the routine it on some with something the harder it the harder it is to just straight up break that routine especially when it provides the payoff is like drinking does Chemically, I mean, you know, like when you drink. The instantaneous payoff. Exactly, right. Not the long-term payoff. No, long-term payoff.

Negative. Like, not even proportionately more beneficial to stop drinking. Like, you know when he said, wow, this is how everyday people walk around feeling good. Yeah, that's really an impactful statement. Right, that's so true. That's exactly what I thought. I'm like, dang, no wonder freaking these feet, Jocko doesn't drink, right? So no wonder Jocco's doing all this stuff.

I could do all that stuff too. That's how you feel. I'm not saying I'm doing all this stuff. I'm just saying that's the feeling so I could dig it. Anyway, point is when you're on this path, it's not always easy. But psychological warfare is there to get you through those difficult parts. Parts that you admit or that you can admit

that you need maybe a little push, little help, little spot. Waking up early, procrastinating. That's a big one. skipping the workout, that kind of stuff. Psychological warfare. Okay, so there's a track for every little weakness you might encounter. Skipping the diet or slacking on the diet.

That's a good one. But yeah, check that one out and, you know, see what up? Good way to support yourself in your, on the path, when you're on the path and support the podcast as well. Also, you can get some jaco white tea, which tastes like victory and will make you feel really good. You can get that on Amazon. The books way the warrior kid number one which we just covered obviously

It is not just a book for kids yeah uncle Jake has something to teach all of us myself included It's for adults and teenagers and anyone else that wants to have a better life can I add something about where the word kid Which and I I'm on a cycle I just read it over and over again like as just like a routine To your daughter yeah she's four and a half so she can't quite read yet um But there's little things in there that it's like this is really good that these kids are getting this message because it's stuff that as an adult you're like Dang, I never really even though you know it like okay and this is what it is when you're like how do you expect to be good at something if you don't practice Like little kids don't know that they don't they straight up don't yeah and got to practice I feel like we've kind of forget that in a way no we absolutely do yeah So yeah

It's for sure there's a lot in that book and sometimes I read that book and I and there's even more in there Then I even recognized you know what I mean? Yes, because I the lessons that are coming out of my head. They're so important They're like beyond my own comprehension. Yeah, and I was just explaining the book Way the Warrior Kid to which is gonna come out And I was I was just talking through a with a guy yesterday like what what it's about And as I'm explaining everything that it's about It's a lot of stuff And it's a lot of really important lessons Yes

But yeah It starts with the way the Warrior Kid The second Warrior Kid book will be out April 28th, 2018 Actually speaking of books There is extreme ownership A New Edition A New Edition is out

It's not a totally new book It's a new edition of it It's going to be available November 21st You can get it for pre-order right now On Amazon if you want it It's got a new forward in it So Laif and I wrote a new forward. It has some color pictures in it. Also the new cover is black. We changed the cover from white to black. Why?

Because black. It's dope. Yes, because it looks cooler way cooler. Also, and this is interesting. There's a new Q&A section in the back of the book that is actually from this podcast. So I kind of rounded up the most prominent leadership questions that that that that, that we've answered on this podcast and wrote them up and kind of ed had to edit him a little bit to make sure that they made sense without without everything we talked about today without the tone and the the pacing of what's being said so i had edit them a little bit but they're they're what they're what the answers were given on this podcast and they're all from everyone's questions so everyone uh appreciate the questions everyone that listens to the podcast you helped us write this next section of this book echo charles is in it as the question Asker so echo Charles is in the book and I'll hold it up if you're on YouTube. There's the new book right there Boom discipline or sorry extreme ownership available November 21st Also you can get the book Discipline equals freedom field manual It's a manual for getting after it so if you want to get after it get get the field manual Discipline equals freedom thoughts and actions they're both

in there it's been great again getting great feedback appreciate everyone's feedback it's pretty straightforward book no fluff involved not not making you read a bunch of words to get to my point sure here's my point no you can get it anywhere that they that they sell books including obviously Amazon Barnes and Noble you can get it at Walmart by the way Target the publisher shipped it out to everywhere so you can pick it up it's a good book to give to people in my opinion It's it's it's it's not just like giving someone a book you're giving them something a little bit more than a book Yeah, yeah it's it's like it's like something a little bit more than a book it's I don't know if I can't I can't explain it too well right now

Look at it yeah, yeah you can look at it it's it's not normal I would say it's not normal If you want the audio version of that book which I lot of people have been asking about the audio version is available it is not on audible and it is not going to be on audible it is made and we put it together echo directed and produced the album that also has tracks so it's an album with tracks and it's available as mp3 anywhere that you can get mp3 tracks for sale iTunes Amazon music music Google play wherever whatever MP3 platform you utilize you can find it there and if you like the leadership

principles that we talk about on this podcast and you want to get them for your team or your business we have a leadership and management consulting company it's called Echelon front it's me it's Leif Babin it's J.P. Dinell it's Dave Burke you can email info at Echelonfront.com or you can just check out the website echelonfront.com and if you have more questions or you have answers to the questions that we covered that are better than the answers that we gave today and you want to share them with us

that'd be cool I want to learn you can find us we're actually on the interwebs on Twitter on Instagram on dash facey boeh ha Echo is at echo Charles

and I am at jocco willing and to close out I want to say thanks to our military that's out there on the front lines I recently got reports of ISIS in Iraq sending kids to to surrender to coalition forces, but they've been laden with suicide bombs and rigged to blow up. And as these kids would approach the areas set aside for surrender to American forces, they would, the Americans would see the terror in their eyes and realize that there was something wrong.

and American military men, especially explosive ordinance disposal technicians, would risk their lives time and time again to go disarm these bombs, risking their lives so that these young children can live. Who even does that? I'll tell you who, America's servicemen and women. They are the finest, and we thank them for their service. and sacrifice and to police and law enforcement firefighters paramedics other first responders Thank you for doing your job extremely difficult often thankless keeping us safe here on the home front and to everyone else that is listening Remember this if there's something in your life that you want to change then change it

you have control and if you don't think you have control then take control get a grip on your life getting after it so until next time this is echo and jocco out