Jocko Podcast - DEF 02: "Why" Can Bear Almost Any "How"

Episode Date: December 15, 2023

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Discipline equals freedom. Episode two, Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Why? Why? I'm going straight to the book on this one right here. Discipline equals freedom, field manual. Why?

Over and over and over again, I am asked, why. What drives me? This happens to this day. I still get asked this question. And I think people are looking for, hey, maybe he's going to say something that then I can hold on to. Right? Like, tell me why you're doing this.

So then when I know why you're doing it, then I can do it for that why as well. Unfortunately, I don't think that works. I don't think it works 100% of the time. Maybe it works 70% of the time. But what it comes down to is my why is not going to be the same as your why in many cases. Back to the book, what drives me? When I was younger, I was preparing for war. What a way to grow up.

What an awesome way to grow up. And it's weird because I was preparing for a war that at time didn't exist because it was the 90s. And in the 90s, there was no war going on. There was little skirmishes that would break out around the world. So what I was preparing for was the unknown. What I was preparing for was something that I didn't understand. understand fully.

And in my mind and in many of our minds, we prepared for like a dragon that was a thousand feet tall and breathed fire. And so that's what we were getting ready for. We weren't preparing for a kangaroo. Did dragons kind of look like kangaroos a little bit, right? Yeah. Sure. It depends on what depiction of the dragon, I guess.

But don't dragons, they kind of have, they're back on the, aren't dragons on two feet kind of like a kangaroo some of them yeah the well you know like a Godzilla scenario yeah yeah kind of but then if you look at like my last drag but you know you get the last dragon I think it's called or dragon heart sorry that's a four-legged dragon right there so we could go both ways yeah well what I was preparing for was a big giant the most evil dragon you could imagine that's what I was preparing for back to the book I knew that somewhere out there another man was also preparing that man was my enemy he was working training planning and preparing to meet me on the battlefield i didn't know when i didn't know where so all that changed once the

war started it was like oh you're going on deployment in 12 months and you're going to afghanistan you're going to iraq you're going to wherever where you know there's a war going on so you knew you knew who the enemy was we didn't even know who the enemy was back then it was like well it could be some terrorist, it could be some insurgent, it could be some, we didn't know what it was, partially also because I was young and dumb. So we're training for the unknown. You know, this reminds me talking to Brian Sargent. Sure.

He said when he was, you know, he was a really good wrestler. And he would train for wrestling. And when he would visualize who he was going against, they never had a face. because he didn't he said he didn't want to to be opponent specific because you're not sure you know you're going through the brackets and maybe this guy upsets this guy so you're not going to go against the guy the number two seed now you're going against the number four seed but I didn't prepare for him so he'd prepare visually to wrestle people without faces and I feel like that's kind of what I was doing but in doing that it makes you prepare in a lot of ways it makes you prepare hard Right? Because you're just if you're smart you're thinking worst case scenario Like maybe you're thinking oh well the way the bracket's gonna be set up I'm gonna be going against the number 12 seed that's gonna be pretty easy I know that guy he doesn't have a real good sprawl him take him down easy then all of a sudden you're going against some other guy So that's a problem

So when you prepare for someone with no face Non-specific what that should do is increase your fear levels which therefore you requires you to do increase your discipline levels. So you're gonna train harder. Back to the book, but I knew that at some point we would meet and I wanted to be ready, ready mentally, ready physically, ready emotionally. So I trained and I prepared

and I did everything I could do to be ready for that day, waiting. So that's an awesome driving force to have in the back of your head, right? For me, at least it was. For me, at least it was. It goes on. So I trained and I prepared and I did everything I could to be ready for that day. When I became a leader, I took the same approach to prepare my men in the same way, to train

brutally and without mercy so we could fight brutally and without mercy. And by the way, that's what I used to say at trade at. And when a team would check in, I'd say, hey, we, we'd, we'd We train brutally and without mercy so we can fight brutally and without mercy. That's what you need to do. That's how you need to prepare. Back to the book, and the day came, we met the enemy on the battlefield. We were ready and we fought and we won.

Then one day, it was over. I was no longer a soldier, no longer a leader of men. I was no longer preparing myself or my men for war. So what drives me now? The answer is simple. The men that did not come home. Mark and Mikey and Ryan, but it's not only them. There are others, hundreds more, thousands more, countless more, who fought and died to give me the gift of freedom.

And for them, I will make every day, every minute, every second. Second, I will make it all count. I will live to honor their sacrifice, a life worthy of the price they paid for me, for us. I will not let them down. So that's a broad, overarching driving force in life. That's a broad, in other words, that's so deeply embedded. That's such a huge driver. That's almost like the psychological driver.

You know someone that when they were growing up, they got picked on. And for the rest of their life, they're trying to succeed and do well because they to show everyone else that they got picked on or they got abandoned. Like whatever, that's the kind of deep sort of almost psychological driving force. I feel that. I feel that I have that. Victor Frankel, he said, and this is who was. captured by the Nazis in the in the in the concentration camp entire family killed the only

survivor was him and he has a quote that is those who have a why to live can bear almost any how so you have to know why you're doing what you're doing you have to know why you're doing what you're doing. And to me, this is your own personal strategic thinking, right? We talk about, we talk about on a mission, you've got to understand the long-term strategy that you're trying to achieve. You've got to understand what the long-term goal is. You and I talk about this a lot. We've got to think strategic. We have to think long-term. Short-term, have a donut, taste good right now, instant gratification. Long-term strategy, you're fast. out of shape unhealthy so you got to think long term well that that's what this is

that's what we have to do we have to have something to reach back to we have to have something to reach back to and yeah the steps the steps can be hard so sometimes when we are sometimes when we need a little push for what we're doing right now Now, we've got to think about that long-term goal. We've got to think about that long-term destination. We've got to think about what it is we're trying to achieve. That's what we have to do. Now, here's the thing, those big, giant long-term sort of psychological strategic goals,

which again, if you have them, great. You also have to make sure that those things are on point, right? There's people that have bad long-term strategic goals, right? The kids that rebels against their parents, their parents were mean to them, so they're going to pay them back by being a failure, by being a druggie, by being, getting sent to jail, but they want to like embarrass their parents. It's one of their goals. This happens.

I've seen it happen. Sometimes it can be a positive thing. Oh, my parents were terrible to me. I'm going to prove to them that I'm better. So I'm going to go work my ass off. I'm going to be successful. I'm going to make money. I'm going to be healthy, all those things.

Sometimes that happens. Could go either way. I don't know what the percentage is. What do you think the percentages? I don't know. Tough to call? Well, to be successful, very small. Usually, it's usually more of a damaging, toxic thing.

But, you know, I think if you hit that Goldilocks zone, you know, you got just enough of the good stuff and just enough of the, or a little bit more of just enough of the bad stuff, boom. Just that perfect imbalance Yeah Yeah Well yeah I think I think you're right You need a little bit of both Optimally

You got to have struggle But a little too much struggle Things go off the rails You know that's when you have some real problems But with no struggle whatsoever Now you have a spoiled kid Yeah So you know

And it'll come as no surprise When you think about it A lot of these quote unquote High Achieve have some kind of a weird thing about them, like something's imbalanced, you know, and it'll show itself in some other way. Like, maybe they have trouble with relationships.

Or, you know, a lot of the time, I'm not talking about anyone specific, but to find that out about somebody when they're a high achiever, comes as no surprise a lot of the time, you know, where they'll have something else lacking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, there's some imbalance

that shows itself in some other part of their life, so to speak. That can be a thing as well. So that seems like it kind of lends credence to the idea of like, hey, there was something that was unfulfilled, you know, that's driving them. And it just shows itself, eh, in smaller ways, you know, in bad ways. But the main way it shows itself is in that driver for success. Yeah. That's what we hope for. That's what we hope.

We hope it's not just downward spiral, which can certainly happen. So you got to check your kind of under. underlying psychological strategic goals. But the thing is those things can also be so deep that they're just sort of, they're almost, they don't notice them, right? There's some people, like a normal person, maybe they didn't have some big issue,

but they got a little bit of an issue and that's kind of what drives them, but it's not enough to really push them to excellence. It's also not enough to push them to chaos. So they just end up sort of going along with the flow. And then what you end up with is just, Like okay, what what kind of let's think about this in more just normal kind of not day to day but sort of normal sort of strategic goals that we might have as a human being get stronger gain weight lose weight

Make more money buy a car buy a house get good at guitar get good at Jesus whatever you you pick a thing you pick a thing whatever those goals are when you have when you when you when you think about those goals you have to understand why they're important to you you have to if there's no if you don't attach a meaningful why you will not have the discipline that you need you will not have you will not have the discipline that you need if you don't have a powerful why your discipline will not be powerful if you have a weak why your discipline will be weak. If you have a medium why, your discipline will be medium.

If you have a freaking hardcore why, your discipline will be hardcore. Like when you, in a movie, when, you know, someone does something terrible and that other person has the revenge, why? What a good, what a good, strong why. Or, you know, the boxer that the other boxer killed his brother or something. Now he's got to go fight him.

How hard does that dude train? Hardest as a human can train. Talk about kickboxer. Kickbox. Is that what it is? Yeah, yeah. Van Dam. He kills his brother.

There you go, right? How hard does Van Dam train then? Hardcore. So the more hardcore your Y is, the more hardcore your discipline is. So you got to figure that out. And listen, here's the thing. Sometimes if you think about the why, you'll realize that it's a lot more hardcore than you thought.

So, oh, I want to work out every day. Why? Well, you know, I kind of want to get in shape. That's how, what are we getting there? What's the strength of that? One to ten. I just kind of, I just want to get in shape. Yeah, that's a one, that's a two, maybe.

Maybe a three at best. Yeah. One to ten, maybe a three at best. Yeah. But if you start thinking about I want to work out every day because I have kids and they're young and I want to be healthy enough to do things with them. and healthy enough to walk my daughter down the aisle. I want to be it.

You know what I'm saying? Yep. All of a sudden. That's escalating. Especially if you get an indicator that you could lose it all, like health-wise. Yeah. So, like, you know, you get these guys, I have, you know, my cousin's husband. He had a heart attack.

Young guy, like under 50, before he was 50, had a heart attack. How'd that why? What happened to that why? Bro, that Y wins sky high point. So, yeah. And it was the kind, he didn't, like, it wasn't the kind of massive heart attack. You know the kind, you can have, like, a little mild heart attack. So I guess he was like a little mild heart attack.

medium heart attack. Yeah. Oh yeah. Freaking right then and there in and boom. Life change. Life changer. That why went from, you know, I don't really enough. Kind of like to enjoy myself. Yeah, because he wasn't like this big like super sloppy. He was just a little heavy. You know, like most, you know, most people I guess in a way. So yeah, just a little heavy. So that why was at about a three. So what happened to his discipline? Still going. We'll say that. So we got strong. So you need to look at your why and you need to figure out how to reinforce your why you need to reinforce your why sometimes a lot of times oftentimes that means taking a more strategic look at your why a more long-term look not like just like well you know summer's coming and I'm going to that pool party in July July 4th

pool party I want to be looking good that's actually a pretty good short to medium term it's a good Short to medium term. It's a good short to medium term. But if you had a heart attack and you realize you might not live anymore. So start thinking about that. So yeah, take that short to medium term. Take the Fourth of July pool party at the Charles residence. We're going to go there.

We're going to be looking good. Right? Hell yeah. Take that. But then add to that, strengthen that, reinforce that with an even more powerful why, which is your health is what your family depends on. Strengthening that why? Oh, you want to get you want to save money.

Well, why do you want to save money? Well, because I would I really like to look flashy when I go down to the club in a new car or whatever. Yeah. Right. That's sure. Like you said, that's a pretty, that could be a medium. You know, coming from Mr. Cadillac over here. When you're a little kid and you want to save some money for the freaking Optimist Prime action figure.

Yeah. Bro, it works. Yeah. Well, those things were kind of. of a big deal back oh yeah yeah I agree and just a but you know you just that translates over to a bunch of stuff you want to save for that and those new Gucci sunglasses like how you say you want to flex in this event or in general or whatever like it brought it works straight up it does but you can reinforce that why by saying hey I'm not saving for a pair of Gucci sunglasses or a

flashy car. I'm saving for a house so that I can have stability and freedom and security for me and my family. All of a sudden, that Y is reinforced. Then maybe that Gucci bag doesn't look

so good. Then maybe that flashy car, maybe we don't need to get the Cadillac, maybe we can get the Yukon. You know what I'm saying? The GMC version. What happened? Sure. Because you realize, hey, I'm going to strengthen my discipline because my why has been reinforced and is more powerful.

Now, that being said, that being said, sometimes the dream can be too far away. You know what I mean? The dream can be too far away. Like, dude, I won't be able to get a house for, because when you start saving for a house when you're 20 years old, you might have six years of saving before you can get a house.

Six years. And six years when you're like, well, you know what is the week. So if it's today and I'm 20 years old and I'm like in six years I've done my calculations I make I make $32,000 a year. I'm going to save whatever 10% It's going to take me this much time and take me six years to save up my down payment For my $280,000 house So in six years I'm gonna be able to buy my house that I want

And then tonight someone's like yo you want to go to the club let's put let's throw some money down And out come the hindo's right? Yep So you lose track of that long-term goal. That's why it's good, as you said, to have some intermediate goals, some more short-term goals, about how much money I'm trying to save this month. And then what you do is you say,

listen, as long as I save whatever that number is, if I'm going to save $1,000 bucks this month, as long as I do that, I'm going to save $900, $800, $700. As long as I do that, I'm going to have $180. I'm going to blow on a Friday night. That's going to be my reward for saving.

So what does that mean? Means I'm not going to buy the Starbucks coffee that cost $8 every day for this month. That means I'm not going to waste my money on this stuff. It means I'm going to cancel my subscription to whatever freaking streaming services coming in at $18 a month. You're going to make moves so that you can get a short-term reward, but you're still going to have the discipline maintained for your long-term reward. You're going to focus on the thing right in front of you and do it so that you can. eventually accomplish your long-term goal. And that is the discipline.

And if you want some more discipline, go to theDeafreset.com. If you need fuel, go to joccofuel.com. Gear, go to origin USA.com or jocco store.com. And leadership, go to echelonfront.com. That's what we're doing. Stay disciplined. And until next time, this is Echo and Jocco.

Out.