Jocko Podcast - Jocko Podcast 25: Jody Mitic(Pt.2)Q&A – Mental Prep, Stressful Situations, “Soldier First” Principle, Jody’s Wife

Episode Date: June 1, 2016

0:00:00 - Opening & Random Talk 0:14:51 - Mental Exercises for Stressful situations (Jody and Jocko) 0:22:47 - Opinions of "Soldier First" Principle. 0:33:30 - Silencing Distractions to achieve goals 0:54:40 - Mental prep, and routines in and out of battle. 1:11:26 - About Jody's wife, who was the medic who saved him when he was wounded. 1:20:53 - Dealing w/ being away from Family. 1:28:01 - Jody's workout methods. 1:48:04 - Handling doubts in life.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 25 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. And once again, we have this evening Jody Middick. And if you didn't listen to the last podcast, this is our first double guest. He's been on the podcast twice. We went so long on the first podcast that we had to break it up into two podcasts. Jody had a lot of been through a lot of stuff, had a lot of stuff to talk about. Canadian Army soldier sniper served in Afghanistan. Member of the city council up in Ottawa, he's been on TV.

He wrote this book right here, boom. It's called Unflinching the Making of a Canadian Sniper. And he was wounded in Afghanistan, lost. double amputee below the knees. And we talked about that on the first podcast. If you haven't listened to that one, listen to that one first. So you get the context of what we're about to go into tonight. But welcome to the show once again, Jody.

Awesome, man. Thank you. Appreciate it. Echo Charles. Good evening. Good evening. So this one, since we already talked for a long time on the first one. Didn't feel like a long time.

No, no, it didn't. But this time we got some, we did get some questions from the interwebs and it was. Now, do you strictly pull from Twitter or do you get emails and Twitter? I get Facebook and. What about your Instagram? Okay, the problem with Instagram is you can't copy and paste from Instagram on my phone into the document that I travel with and keep going. So Twitter is the one that, Twitter is the easiest one.

Facebook's fine too, but I primarily use Twitter to get the questions from all the troopers out there that. And it keeps the questions short. Yes, you have 140 characters. Yeah, yeah. And we know, I've got now, so I have something called the podcast question bank. Right. Which I've captured every question that anyone's ever asked me.

They're in there. And I just, every time I, you know, you got a chance of coming up in the lottery every time. Nice. Because I go through it and I go through all from the beginning and just look for questions that are pertinent. Maybe the pertinent of the topic that I'm talking about that night. Maybe it's pertinent to something that's going on in the world. But I just pick them and say, oh, yeah, that's a question that people have.

Or I'll see a repetitive question. A bunch of different people will ask me the same thing. And then that becomes one of the questions. But that's kind of how we've been doing it. Right. So do you find you get, because you, you know, I don't want to hash it out too much, but like your podcast went from non-existent to number one in about like six days, something crazy like that?

Like you left the Joe Rogan podcast. Right. Did you, did, started your own. Hit number one. And like now like do you get too much correspondence? Like how do you keep up? Like I've noticed you are your like you must make Twitter a daily task. Oh, I have to.

Yeah. And I'll be honest with you. I don't know how long I'm going to be able to keep it up for. Yeah. Because. So you're approaching critical mass. I'm approaching critical mass where I'm going to have to where I'm not going to be able to. Because right now I read every single.

I'll probably always read them all. I mean, unless it just gets crazy. But I at least read them. And I'll try and respond if it's something quick. If it's not something I can respond to immediately, I'll just put it in the question bank. Would you ever consider getting someone to do it for you?

No. Like, not answer, but like take it all in, record it. So you don't have to check yourself? Maybe, I guess.

That seems like something Tim Ferriss would tell me to do, which is, He'd tell you to hire a kid in Pakistan and do it for $8 an hour. Right, no, and maybe that's a smart thing to do. The problem I find with that is I wouldn't, if I was wanting to talk to me and I was one of the troopers out there,

I'd rather have, take the chances of not hearing anything back from me, but know that the guy that actually read this thing was me. I'm 100% with you. I've had people tell me to hand my stuff over and I'm like, uh-uh, because that's me. Yeah.

There's one reason why I interact with Jocko on Twitter. It's because I know it's Jocko. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's the feeling most people would have. I know I would have it. Guess who I unfollow on Twitter when I realize, oh, that's not, that's not him or her? Oh, okay, so never mind. Yeah.

For me, it's like if you're in a leadership position and you lead, you send someone else to do your bidding. That's, to me, is not good. And I wouldn't like that. I was a follower. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, the whole point to social media. And the other thing is, I get a lot of, you know, good feedback from people. And also, people always like, oh, you inspire me.

And you know what I say? You inspire me, too. Because there's people that are out there grinding it out in their worlds, in their lives. And I say, man, the world is fooled with a bunch of people. Not a bunch of lazy slackers that I'm used to. you get on the Twitter the Jaco troopers, man, they're getting after it. All of them are charging.

They're not getting on there and saying, hey, I don't feel like I'm going to get after it today. I think I'm going to say, no. They're like, it's 407, and I'm in the game. And I go, damn, I got to keep my game in check. I love it when I see, like, I'll see, because you always put the picture of your watch when you wake up.

Yes, I do. And then I'll see, like, a retweet with, like, you know, somebody else's watch. And there's, like, a thousand watch. watches with like your picture and there's right next to it and I'm like oh it's 6 a.m. where I am. Oh, look at that. I love you man, but I ain't getting up at four. That's just me. Yeah. I don't have any legs. So I got an excuse. That's cool. Right. I don't accept it. But it. But it's, I feel the same because it's like it's a duty now. Yeah. We've put ourselves in a

position where others turn to us. So now we got to turn to them. And if we don't show up, Uh-oh, who are we letting down? I'm not, it's not that I'm letting me down. Yeah. You know, it's that you're going to let down all, what do you got like, 25,000 Twitter followers or something? It's about like 40, 40 something. Yeah.

That's 40,000 people that are waiting for your 4 a.m. Yeah. You know, that's good, but it keeps you, keeps you on, it keeps you sharp, right? Keeps you on the days. I say it, I got days where I'll look at my prosthetic legs and I'll be like, ah, the last thing I want to do is put those things on today. And then I'll think about everybody.

else that is in my position and says and I get it because I get the same thing right oh hey man thanks for being who you are and I'm thinking about them well they're going to get up so who am I you know and I love when I following guys like you though

helps me go I'm a lazy bitch people see I get a lot done look at this guy and then oh look at her look at that kid oh man I better step my game up yeah a bunch of normal people a bunch of regular people with regular lives are doing what they can to get ahead and dig in and make something happen. And that does fire me up.

That does fire me up to see people getting better. And wanting to. Yeah, I just had someone today. This woman came into my gym. And she said, they called me down. Oh, there's someone here to see you. I come down and it's a woman whose daughter is fired up for the podcast, fired up for the book. They actually named it.

They have a CrossFit gym. It's called CrossFit Overwatch. Ooh. I like, you can be tingles. Yeah, yeah. So they, and they did that because of obviously because of, you know, Overwatch as we talk about in, in the book. And so yeah, here's this woman.

She was like, to be honest with you, she was kind of tearing up a little bit like that fired up. How humbling is it when somebody feels like that around you? It's motivating to me. Yeah. No, but it's, to think that you can have that. that you like yeah in my case me that joey middick the guy who just wanted to be a soldier and somebody is that like fired up to meet me that they're shaking right damn well i i got i got

i got to keep i got to keep my game up yeah and it's weird too and we actually talked about this on the podcast once is like don't put me on a pedestal as if i'm something great because i'm not man i'm not i'm a i'm weak and soft and do stupid things. You know, I mean, don't put me on a pedestal, but put yourself on a pedestal. You know, put yourself on a pedestal and rise up yourself. Don't worry about me. Springboard off my back and go to a higher level.

That's what I want to see happen. That's what I don't want, I don't want people to put me on a pedestal. I want them to stand on my shoulders and go higher and further than anything I could ever do. That's what I like. Did it take you, this is a personal question on my end, did it take you a while? to say, like when somebody would say, you inspire me and thank you for being who you are, did you accept that at first?

Or did you have to tell them like, no, no, no, I don't. Like you just said, like, I'm nothing special. But how long did it take you before you would accept that compliment without dismissing it? I literally went right. The first person that said that to me, I said, no, man, you inspire me.

You know, because you're, guess what? I've had a great life. I've had a great life and I'm stoked, right? But look at you. You're saying I inspire you? Look at you inspire me. You're a single mom with two or three jobs getting after it. And by getting after it, I mean waiting tables, working in as an admin assistant and then doing some babysitting at night.

Yeah. And helping with homework and making lunches and and and. Right. Oh, so Jocco is really, really, no. Actually, you are. Yeah. you're fired up yeah I just I asked because it took me a while because I I had a real hard time with people looking at me like that and I actually would I would be like dismissive of it at first

I'd be like nah what are you doing what are you talking about it I'm just I'm nobody special like don't don't don't say that and I realized I was being a bit of a dick by completely dismissing their feelings for for for the situation and and then it was Until I realized, though, and then that's when I realized, I went, oh, this is, this is real. These people actually do feel this. And I'm, who am I to dismiss their feelings? You know? So I started trying to use them to be stronger and realize, like, you know, like, this is real.

Like, people are looking up to me, so now I've got to live up to that role. I'll tell you another thing that I tell people when they say something like that to me. I tell them, look, there's many people that have done way more than me and sacrificed way more than me. 100% And the fact that You think that about me The only reason you think that about me Is because you know me

You know who I am Because I stepped out of the darkness And And into the public view Yeah But otherwise There's a bunch of A bunch of warriors

That they're never going to know their name They're never going to be able to say Hey, you inspire me So there's throwing that in my direction And I tell them, look, you don't, I don't inspire you. You get inspired by what I stand for. And what I represent is thousands and thousands of servicemen. Seals, yes, soldiers, yes, Marines, yes, all of them.

Yeah, yeah. That's what you're saying. And so on behalf of all of them, I get it. Because you know what? Those soldiers, those Marines, those seals, those guys in special operations, they inspire me too. And so I think there's, that's kind of the... So it's a give and take.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, no, I had to ask you because I went through such a, with the legs and everything, I was just trying to accept not having legs. Never mind that I had a woman come up to me and say, I had like, I had several actually, but this was like maybe the first, I think.

She said, I lost 100 pounds because of you. And I'm like, first of all, you don't even look like you weigh 100 pounds. and I'm like, huh? What did I do? I'm just being me. And that was the one that really in my mind, like at that moment I went,

okay, I got to reevaluate what's going on here. I can't just dismiss this as I'm just Jody Middick anymore. Clearly, clearly there's something going on. Well, I think your story in particular strikes a real chord with people because you had to overcome some crazy adversity. And by the way, your adversity while challenging, as you know well, there's guys with much more challenging adversity than you've had 10-fold,

a hundred-fold. And so, you know, for me, it's a joke. For you, you at least get a sense, but you and me both know, and we've seen guys, and we know guys that have had it, like I said, infinitely worse than you. Unimaginable. Unimaginable. And so those guys that get up with their issues and press on and drive on, look. to them for inspiration.

Absolutely. Look right past me. Look right past Jody. Look at those guys who are doing what they're doing. And that to me is where inspiration comes from. And so I guess inspiration's around you everywhere. It really is. If you open your eyes to it and you look at what other human beings do, it's amazing.

Yeah. It's amazing. I love it. I love humans. Humans are such, we're such a species that study. you know like so anyway I know we wanted to get to the interwebs but I wanted to have that discussion with you

before we moved on because it was just important to me to hear that the discussion yeah has been had Roger and I think it's yeah I think it's I think it's awesome I think it's awesome and yeah like I said I see why people are coming up and telling you that yeah I agree with them actually

well thanks buddy all right you make me blush we need to get to some questions from the interwebs now oh okay now I'll get it all right here we go okay mental exercises to learn to control one's pulse and breathing in really stressful situations or when very nervous what do you do mental exercises so we touched on this very briefly in the last episode which was on the book and where I talk a little about sniper training.

Visualization is probably your biggest tool. And in my experience. Train, train the shit out of it. Train, train, train. And when you think you've trained enough, keep training. But when you're not training, think about it. Think about it. The more you think about it,

become in tune with yourself. Okay, I'm going to get a little spacey here, little earthy. Just sit there. Because you know what you do when you're a sniper? You fucking sit there. You have a lot of time to yourself. You can't really talk because you've got a job to do.

And what you got to do is you just got to, no, my heart rate's going to go up here. But I got to do my best to make sure it doesn't overwhelm my motor functions. And you can control it pretty easily if you prepare yourself for that moment. but it's all about preparation, training, and visualization. Even like, even making the shot, you know, like Tim Kennedy was on here, right? And he talked about dry firing. Consider dry firing that this is your dry firing for controlling yourself.

For your brain. For your brain, exactly. Dry fire your brain. I like that. And it only comes from experience. Now, I guess there's probably some exception as a rule out there that are just born to be cold-blooded killers that second they get behind a barrel. But for me, it was visualization and just preparing to accept the feelings that were coming and also overriding them. Because they could still be happening, but you can still control yourself with the right kind of preparation.

And it's also a perishable skill, funny enough, I realized. I don't know if that answered the question, but I think that's, I think that's good. And I think for me, one thing that I know I do, and this is a, I guess it may be considered a technique, but it's like the technique creates the solution. Let me explain this to you. One of the things that I do in stressful situations, there's something that I always try and do. And that is no matter what's going on, I try and. remain calm in my voice.

So when things are going crazy, I try and get on the radio and say, hey, we need two more people over here. Not, hey, we need two more people over here. Roger that. So if you're going to talk in a calm, controlled voice, then you can't be breathing hard. You can't be excited.

You can't get angry. You can't get frustrated. You have to lock all that up. And get it under control before you open your lips. lips and start saying something. And so I'm always very focused on I am going to sound calm, cool, and collected when I open my mouth. That way, and in doing that, the only way to make that happen is to do everything we just

talked about. Control your breathing, control your pulse, control your emotions, get all those things under control, and then say, all right, we need two more guys down here immediately. Now. and everybody goes, oh, okay, let's make this happen. And coming from you especially, in your case, you were the boss. So if you're, if you're calm, cool and collected, that translates to your troopers. It absolutely does.

So when we, and it would, for us as well, when we were doing Overwatch, you know, six to six three, you move into your left. Where? Where are they at? No, no, no, no. To your left, right? Think about what happens when you do that. So imagine if I went, Oh, shit, six, they're on your left, they're on your left.

Right, I'm freaking out. They would, it all would be lost. But you're that voice. Because we're over, snipers are Overwatch. The troops feel better when they know, okay, the snipers doing Overwatch. Okay, we can, we're going to be okay. So if I got on the radio and talked the same way.

So, you know, nope, okay, yeah, adjust fire 400 meters north. You know, fire for effect. Roger that. You know, like, you got a, that's a good point. I didn't even thought of that. Yeah. I think airline pilots train that too. Because, you know, when you hit the turbulence,

and they're, oh, hey, guys. Sorry about that turbulence, you know. Yeah. Just go ahead and put your seatposts. Yeah, yeah. Actually, if you hear Sully, the guy that landed on the river, he's like that. Yeah.

Like, yeah, we're going to have to ring down the river. I think they have to teach him that because that's where people are so apprehensive is when they're in the plane. My favorite part about that is, uh, he's like, yeah, we'll be in the river. And the guy's like, uh, say again, we'll be in the Hudson. Roger out. And the plane, it's like real time you're watching the video. And he's just like, yeah, yeah, we're in the river.

We're in the river. It's all, man. What? And by controlling his voice, in order to control his voice, he's got to control his breathing. He's got to control his temper. He's got to control his emotions. And so that's what I do in those situations. And I'll tell you what, if I haven't, if I don't, if I'm not in a situation where I need to talk, I'll just talk to myself.

Be like, okay. You know, just say that in my head. Yeah. All right. What is the next movement you're going to do? I know we're spending a lot of time on the. first question. But that's what saved my life. Oh.

Staying. If I had gone into shock, dude, I'd be dead. Right? And I say it in the book. I say, I did my best to go into the zone. So I know I'm bleeding it. And I know this and I know that. But in my mind, it was let the system do its job. Everything's going to be fine. Jody. It's okay. And I just kept saying, talking to myself, you know, visualizing what, okay. the chopper's going to come in, you know, and I just visualized each step. And my, my, but the whole point to it was I couldn't have my pulse, you know, jackhammer. Otherwise, more blood's lost.

More blood lost. And then you're, and what happens, right? Blood gets sucked into your core when you go into shock. And, and that sucks it out of your brain, sucks it out of everywhere where you, you know, I needed to stay conscious. So, so anyway, long, long answer for one question, but this is also something, you know, you got to learn. Practice. Keep practicing it. You'll figure it out.

Yeah, and always, and we talk about this again all the time on the podcast, inoculate yourself to these stressful situations. That's right. Colonel Grossman, that's the guy's name. Yes. Stress inoculation. Yep. Inoculate yourself to the stress so that when you get used to it.

Yeah. The more stressful situation, I mean, training, going through training, man, they put all kinds of stresses at you so that you learn to deal with it. And if you want to learn how to, that's your time to practice controlling all those things. Absolutely. And I'm not trying to go level seven Zen Buddha on you all. Like, you need to get in the mind state to control your breathing. Like, no, it's a practical thing.

It's a real thing. It's not a yoga thing. It's a practical real thing of, hey, calm down, take a deep breath, get yourself under control. Now it's time to talk and give clear, concise orders that are calm. Yeah. Or make that shot. Or crack one off if you're in the sniper zone. Lack a bad guy.

All right. Next question. What does Jody think of the soldier first principle in the Canadian Armed Forces? Is expertise such as his being lost due to this? I think they're talking about the universality of service, which means everyone must be able to deploy. So I didn't realize what it meant until. I lost my feet.

And in my mind, you know, this was something else. Okay, I can't deploy anymore, but I can go to the sniper school and teach the next generation of snipers. Sure, but you're not going to get promoted and this and that. You know, like, huh?

I was supposed to get promoted to sergeant. Like, what are we talking about here? So, university service says, if you are not deployable, you're not employable, and you can't be promoted and you can't get any courses and this, that, and you're not.

So because of it, we lose a lot of corporate knowledge, right? So like I said, I was what we call a master sniper, an advanced sniper. And that doesn't mean I get access to the Canadian temple of sniper. Sniperdom to see the secret 13th scroll or anything. It just means I'm allowed to do the paperwork and hand out qualifications and stuff like that. Now, it is a very difficult qualification to achieve, and they spend a lot of money getting me there. and that value is completely erased with my injuries. So Soldier First is if you're not deployable,

then you're going to get... You're unemployable. Okay. So under that system, you get however many years to recover from whatever your injury is. At that point, if you're not recovering or going to recover, they will then begin the process to release you from the gain of force. Yeah, that's jacked up.

they're convinced that it's required because of the size of our military, where my take is, I believe, it's the opposite. Because of the size of our military, you want guys like me doing the training, the guys with the experience, the guys who want to be there to train the guys, and can't deploy for as long as possible. Now, I'm not saying put me in a spot and leave me there for 15 years to become a dinosaur, But allow me to pass on the knowledge I have and remain useful. Right. And they say you can for the limited number of years, and they offer these things that they call extensions in that.

You're not going to get promoted. So forget about a better pension. You're not going to do this and you're not going to do that. And the dichotomy as the word that I never used to use that word as much. I used it as one of the few people used it. but not nearly as much as since I started listening to the Jocko podcast. The dichotomy of it is that our version of the Pentagon, I'm going to get a lot of trouble for saying this, but there's a whole lot of people whose physical fitness probably keeps them from being able to do anything, and they're not getting released.

They're not being booted. No. And it's one of those like open secrets. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And I'm sorry if people get mad at me for that and stuff, but I'm willing to run half marathons and do crossfit without legs and stuff like that. And you still don't want to promote me or keep me?

Well, I'm going to point out a few issues with your system. And I don't blame the military, right? Like the military is a system. Like we said, the big green machine will roll on with or without you. At some point you got to worry about you. And that's, at some point, I just started working. more about me than about than about mommy,

the big mommy military. But then I, you know, when I look back over my shoulder every now and then, and I go, tell me that guy over there's deploying. Show me what, show me his med, how many pull-ups can he do?

Yeah. Yeah, and so anyway, it's, I believe it, I'm sure someone somewhere thinks it's a good idea, but I think the military, the Canadian forces should re-examine what it actually means. Because it's very black,

white. Yeah, that's... And there's no room for... Oh, well, okay, so here's an example. Real quick example, and we can move on. We used to have... We're in no rush, Jody. We used to have a thing we called acting lacking.

So you were acting as sergeant lacking qualification. And it would be a way to, like, promote guys that maybe can't quite get, you know, maybe they have an injury or something. And they got rid of it. as we went back into combat, basically. So you had all these guys getting smashed in combat now getting told like, yeah, we can't make an exception

so you can't get promoted. So I was one of them. I was on the cusp of being promoted sergeant, just had to come home and do what we call, it's called a small arms course and it makes you an expert in all small arms in the infantry and how to train with them to train troopers. And then you get promoted sergeant.

And when you learn some sergeant, urgent leadership stuff as well. But I was number one in my regiment to go do it. And after I got wounded, they're like, yeah, sorry, man. I'm like, well, can I just be acting lacking so my pension is better? Like, oh yeah, we don't do that anymore. Yeah, that's, I can see why. I mean, we're only in combat.

Guys are getting smashed all the time. So why would you want to promote them? You know, like, the administrative side of the military can be very heartless sometimes. Yeah. And I remember when I was in San Antonio telling this to some medical colonel, and she was like, huh? She's like, I promoted a guy who's in a coma the other day. We don't give a shit down here.

No. If we think you deserve it, you get your promotion. Because we know it makes things better for you when you get out. So should I be bitter about not getting promoted? No, I'm over it. I'm bitter you didn't get promoted. How you like them apples? Yeah, thank you.

But, you know, at the same time, there's a lot of amazing people in a lot of difficult spots of leadership. And, you know, you got to pick your battles, too. Yeah, right. So anyway. Well, I'll tell you, as you pointed out, that's really good what you said about guys getting promoted that in a coma. That's awesome. I can't speak to the whole military. I can say in the SEAL teams, we did a, we do an outstanding job of taking guys that get wounded.

And as a matter of fact, one of my guys who was. was wounded real bad, Ryan Job, who was awesome, Biggles. And he got shot in the face, got blinded, and he was like, I'm staying in, he's telling me. I'm staying in. I mean, he wanted to come back to Iraq before he found out he's blind. Then when he was blind, he still wanted to come back. But then, like, when we came home from deployment and everything, and, you know, he's blind. And he says, yeah, I want to stay in the teams.

And I talked to, I was, I was friends with the Admiral that was in charge of all the seals. And I said, hey, sir, I know this might sound crazy, but, you know, Ryan Job, he wants to stay in the teams and just keep being a team guy. And he's like, we'll find a job for him. Right. Which is awesome. It is awesome, but was he going to get promoted?

He would have, yeah, they would have found a job for him. And he actually ended up. up saying, you know what, kind of became to the same conclusion that you made, which is like, you know what, I can't do the actual job of being a seal. Now, he had tons of lessons he could have passed on, would have passed on, which would have been awesome. But he made a decision, hey, you know what? I'm going to move on.

Okay. And so he got out. So what would have happened? No, there's, he, he was stayed in. I would hope, you know, that was one admiral who was a great guy who had a great attitude in supporting the T's. And that's one thing that that Admiral always said to me. This is an Admiral I worked for for about 13 months.

I was the aide to the Admiral in charge of all the SEAL's outstanding guy. But one of the things that he would say during meetings and, you know, all these politicians that you're talking about, all these administrative people that you're talking about, all the big bureaucracy that you're talking about. And he would ask them they'd go through their big presentation about, we're going to cut this, we're going to do that, we're going to buy this, but we're not going to buy that. And he'd say, how does this affect the platoon?

Oh. Oh. Like, because people would forget that the whole reason you're there, the whole reason any of that infrastructure or anything is there, is how does it support the platoons? How does it help the seals? How does it help the machine gunner? How does it help the sniper out there or the radio men?

The guys that are actually doing the job that we have. And I say this to businesses sometimes. When I work with businesses, and I see that there are infrastructures getting super big and they're starting to impose plans and restrictions. And I say, hey, remember what you're here for. You're here to support this guy that's on the manufacturing floor or this guy that's out there selling or this woman that's working with the patients or whatever business it is.

Because it's very easy to be in a leadership position and forget about what the ground troops are doing. No doubt. And that's a horrible thing. That's a horrible thing. And in this thing that you're talking about, soldier first, which sounds to me like soldier last, because they don't want to take care of the soldiers if they want to do that. Because there's nobody better to prepare soldiers for combat

than soldiers that have been in combat. Yeah. If I want to learn sniper, you know how I want to learn it from in Canada? Jody Middick. You know, I want to learn it from someone like you. If I want to learn how to patrol, I want to learn it from someone like you. I don't want to learn it from a guy that theoretically understands it. Right.

That's not the same thing. I want the real deal. Yeah. It's a policy. Again, they defend it. They think it's necessary. What are you going to do? Big green machine just keeps on rolling.

All right. This is a similar question to one we've already had, but I'm going to do it again. How do you silence distraction no matter how important to achieve your number one priority? on on op when I was still a sniper I actually had a much easier time of this I'm I'm ADD in a lot of ways

and whatever I want to focus on ADD doesn't mean that you can't focus on stuff it just means like when the teacher tells you to focus on something you're busy doing other stuff and so right it's not a deficit disorder it's that

I don't give a shit what you're trying to show me. But that right there, that's what I want to look at. So I, um, I had a way of just, I would, like if I had to watch a crossroad, I watched that crossroad was my whole world. And it wouldn't matter what was, now it doesn't mean I wasn't situationally aware. But I would watch that crossroad like my, my life depended on it. Or somebody's life depended on it. Which, a lot of times it did. And, um, if I have another what I found actually and this is one of the reasons why I'm starting to meditate again I'm seeing a therapist again I'm listening to jocco podcast and reading extreme ownership um no I'm being serious is that I appreciate in my civilian post military post wounded post addiction um phase world I've I've I I've lost a little bit of my ability to push out the input I don't want.

I have a hard, I used to read a book a month at the minimum. And I'm not talking like a book, I'm talking like a book. You know that I showed you, I had the 33 laws of war in my suitcase. I've been reading that for three months and I'm maybe half done. I have a real hard time now achieving that. that zone of zero distraction. And I'm trying to get it back because it's really, I get a lot done. You know, I have, I have my politics.

I have the book. I do keynote speeches. I have my kids. I have all my hobbies. You know, I'm trying to support veterans, support charities that support veterans. And I still get a lot done, but I could get so much more done if I could. could turn off some things in my mind sometimes. And I don't know what, what's happened or what, if this is what an addict's brain is like now,

or if it's just, I'm always seeking something. I get bored easily. That's part of the EDD. I've always had that. But when I found something and latched onto it, I used to be like just, I was 100% focused until I became, you know, I got as much of that as I could. And then I would move on to the next thing. and yeah I gotta be honest

I've visualization though going back to the first question is one way that you can do it and I've started meditating to get my mind back into that state I used to do a lot of yoga and I used to do a lot of mindfulness not training I don't know what people could now it's called mindfulness training back then I think it was just called

reflection or something I call it jujitsu. Yeah. Well, when I'm done the bodybuilding show in November, I will start jujitsu. Oh, you might actually be starting jujitsu tomorrow, my friend. Just don't hurt me. It doesn't hurt. Everyone I know who starts jujitsu hurts something.

That's why I'm holding off. But, and I would, I will definitely come let you rag doll me. But my point is that I've lost it. And I'm probably the last guy to give you advice right now on how, to lock out the world because I have to put on headphones and crank music to get through a workout right now.

And I know this. I didn't know I'm detrimental in it and I'm aware of it and I'm trying to correct it. And it bugs the shit at him. It really does. It makes me feel like less of a person. So let me tell you about a transition that I went through. Yes. First of all, before

the war, the military sent me to college. So I had to go to college and I as I said earlier, as I said before, I was super focused when I went to college. I've been in the SEAL teams for 10 years. I was a go-gitter. I was a hard charger. I was like, oh, you want me to read this book? Boom.

I would sit down and just force myself to read it. And then got back to the SEAL teams. And like when I went to college, I literally read every single thing that I was assigned. And nobody does that in college. Nobody does that. I read every single page of every single thing I was assigned. during college. That's ridiculous.

It's almost a waste of time. It's almost embarrassing. Echo definitely thinks it's a waste of time. But it was because I just could just lock my brain down and get it done. So then get back to the teams. And then the teams, officer and the teams,

you have a lot of administrative paperwork to do evaluations and after actions reports and all these things. And I would do the same thing. I'd just go in a lockdown mode and put my brain on it and boom, I'd go through it and just get it done. I would just be able to focus. So like each thing?

Laser, Focus. Laser focus. That report, done. Gone. Memo. Gone. Report.

Done. Done. Okay. Okay. So I go to Iraq the first time. No big deal. I go to Iraq the second time. You know, it's a much tougher deployment.

It's guys are getting wounded. My guys are getting killed. And I come home and I get put into running the training and with running the training, all of a sudden, yeah, there's administrative requirements. And there was administrative requirements overseas as well. And you know what we did? Locked him down and got them done. I get home and I remember the first time I got to do,

I think it's evaluations, which in the military, in the Navy anyways, doing evaluations is a real pain. It's a real big administrative task. Administration or evaluations of all the troops. So at this place I was at, huge running training, I had 100 guys and every one of them is like a little mini term paper or something. It has to be perfect.

Right, right. It's in a person's military record forever. They're really stressful about it. And I used to have no problem just to hammering those things. out. So I get back from that deployment and I'm sitting down and, you know, I start doing it. I'm like, ah, this is stupid. This doesn't matter. I don't know why I'm doing this. I'm sorry. How do I have to do that? I kind of started saying the same things that I would always brag on people for saying. Like, this is stupid. Oh, now your men are stupid. You don't want to fill out the report and take

care of your guys. You don't want to write a good evaluation. The rest of their career isn't worth your five minutes to write this? Okay. You know, so I, but I heard myself saying this. Right. And what the constant undertone of all this was that this stuff doesn't matter. Combat was what mattered. And when you get back from that situation where, man, your buddies are getting killed, you're getting wounded, your friends are getting wounded. This piece of paper, it doesn't matter. And you say to yourself, I don't care about this.

and at some point and it didn't it took me maybe two or three months I did what I had to do to get by but as I sit there and I looked at myself and I said you know what combat doesn't matter anymore

you're not in it you're not in it right now this is now what matters your mind was still there my mind was still there thinking that that was all that matters And like I said, on our last podcast, actually, it's in the past and it doesn't matter anymore. So you know what you have to do? You have to be a man and you have to do your job now and this is what matters now.

And that to me made a big transition for me. And I haven't even thought about this until you were talking about it because I remember what it was like to go from when I went to college and when I was before I deployed reminding, I would just be. so laser-focused people, be able to just burn through things. And then when I got back and it was not there and it was all because I thought, ah, this stuff doesn't matter. This doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. What matters?

You know, there's guys getting killed overseas right now. That's what matters. And I had to say, you know what? No, that stuff doesn't matter right now. And, you know, and also I was in charge of training. And I said, what matters is doing this, getting guys trained to go overseas. And I became obsessed with that and slightly psychotic about getting guys ready for combat.

I mean, I was preparing them for what they were about to go into. For what they were going into. And, you know, you could, I'm sure there were many seals that went through the training that I was overall in charge of and would attest to the fact that I was probably borderline psychopathic at that point. But I think that's not running my training. No offense, dude, but I want a psycho running my combat training. Yep. So I think, but what? Go ahead.

Okay, you were just going to say you think. I think that telling yourself and recognizing to yourself, why are you trying to do this thing? Because you're trying to do something because it does matter, right? It has to matter in some way. Even if it's just filling out the paperwork to get your license from the DMV. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that doesn't matter. Oh, actually, you know what it does matter.

You're going to get arrested if you get pulled. You know, it's like, no, it does matter. These little things, these little stupid, meaningless tasks in life, they actually do matter. So you know what you do? You line them up. And you freaking crush them. That's what you do. That's what you do.

You line up these stupid, meaningless things, and you crush them. And you use them as an exercise in discipline. They become an exercise in discipline. Oh, this thing doesn't matter. Guess what? I'm going to crush it now. Bring it to me. Where's my DMV form?

Watch me fill this out. That's what I'm going to do. So maybe I turn like some little meaningless things into a personal competition of discipline. How consistent are you making that happen, though? I'm I'm consistent And let me tell you So for instance

Since we started the podcast I have to read You know Basically a book a week And then once I read it I've got to go back into it Yeah you do like a book report And go back through it and say

And how is this going to flow together? What part So I'm spending a lot of time on that right now And I've been able to do it Every time so far Okay So I think my consistency Because I've lost

My ability to be consistent instant. And that's what's really bumming me out. Like when I, your book isn't, I mean, it's thick, but I should have been able to read this in two or three solid days of reading. Yes.

I told you how successful I was. Yes, not very. And that bugs the shit at him. And it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, you know what though? I think this is, it's a failure on my part. I think that this is the same thing that we were talking about on the last podcast, and I think

Echo said, when you say, oh, you know what, I'm not going to finish this book right now. It's, I don't really want to. It's sort of like when you say, oh, I'm not going to quit oxycodone. No, it's not that I don't want to, though. That's what I'm saying. You say, but I don't want to do it right now. I can push it off a little bit. You accept that. You accept that answer. You accept that answer. The soldier Jody wouldn't accept that answer. Would not. Do you self-talk?

Not really. Not really. I'm not a guy that says, you know, I'm going to do this or I'm going to do that. I just do it. Right. I just go and do whatever that thing is. I think because you're, you kind of have become that. So it's more of like, I mean, put kind of crudely, that's habitual for you to just do it. You know, remember how it? And it was, I think it was kind of funny. where I use this example, like how you said,

use it as an exercise of discipline. So I said this example one time where I was in line at the grocery store and I had a 12 pack of beer. Do we have to relive this story right now? And I was standing in line and there was maybe three, four people in front of me. So I'm like, all right, it's going to be a while for me to get up there. This beer is getting heavy. And you decided you were going to hold the beer.

Exactly right. I remember this story. Yeah. So exactly right. But it wasn't that, okay, and the reason I decided to hold the beer wasn't because that benefited me right then. It was an exercise in mental toughness. But here's the create, okay, we're way off the question,

but physical tasks, sure, no problem. Yeah. Because it's visceral, it's real, I can feel it. But to sit down and read the report on the sewer charges that are going to be coming in on the tax report for the city next year, what's going on on Twitter? It's kind of the same thing, though, really. But I'm wondering if my brain hasn't replaced the oxy cotton with social media.

Yeah. Like, I had to quit drinking because, okay, we now we're way off the thing, but the hardcover came out last September. The hardcover of Jody. I'm flinching the making of a Canadian sniper by Jody Middick. It was printed by Simon & Schuster. Available on Amazon through jocco store.com. Click the link to Amazon.

but yeah okay yeah so i already said i already said it i already said it so anyway the hardcover came out i drink i drank every day from the day it came up that so we had 450 people at the event uh kevin newman my buddy who's who's he's a well-known news anchor in canada does an interview with me on the stage and we get standing ovation we go out we celebrate me the president of the company my editor we have a good night in the next day if i was i was a good night the next day if i wasn't having one drink, I was having 10. And that went from September to the new year.

And I was getting fat. And I was sleeping in because I'm hung over and I'm not going to the gym. And I went, hang on, what's going on? Because I have my job as politician. I'm daddy. You know, I'm a friend.

You know, I'm advocate. And then, you know, the book is, it's a job, right? You know, selling a book's a job. Full-time job. I need nine days a week and 30, six hours a day to do it. And so I had to make, that's one of the reasons why I decided to do the bodybuilding thing.

Because I'm like, well, you can't drink. And it'll be right till November because I need that. So I'm trying to figure out if my brain is looking for a new habit. Because I was diagnosed before as like anti-addictive, if that's even a real thing. But I had a doctor tell me once. He's like, you're pretty much an anti-addictive personality. Like you won't get addicted to stuff. And there I was addicted to oxy-cotton.

even though it's a physical thing more than a mental thing, but I still wouldn't trust me with a pill right now. Yeah. Anyway, I think we got way off track, but I just... Again, and I don't know what your therapist is going to tell you. I'm going to tell you what Jock would tell you, though. These little things are things that you... I know you know how to do them.

You've done them your whole career in the military. You are watching a crossroad. And I know that might sound exciting to people that are out there that are thinking how crazy that must be. No, there's times where Jody was watching a crossroad, and there was nothing going on for four days. And he was watching that crossroad. And so you have that in you.

You just got to tell yourself that, you know what, this stuff now, this is what matters. And how are you going to tell yourself that this is what matters? It's because this is how it connects to the strategic picture. You can't say that this matters because of what it is right in front of me. Just like when you're looking at the crossroads, you're not thinking, oh, this crossroads is important because the Crossroads is important.

No, the reason it's important is because you are supporting keeping guys alive, which is going to help a mission out, which is going to help the overall strategy win. The commander's intent. The whole nine yards. So I'm the commander now. You are the commander. And also, what's your long-term mission? And that's what I kind of, you just said it yourself like, oh, I picked bodybuilding because you

just gave yourself a mission. So what's your administrative mission? You know, Echo's made some big advances lately because he started freaking reading books. Nice. And he wasn't doing that before. But he He got the long-term mission of, like, you know what? I'm going to learn as much as I possibly can. So you got a long-term mission with your constituents to be the best city councilman and represent.

So when they ask you a question, you're like, boom, that's kind of the core of psycho stuff that I would say. If anybody ever asked me a question, like when I was going to college, if they asked me any question about any of the reading, I'm going to know it. That's just a bizarre, what's that OCD thing? be like, I'm going to know everything. So you have four kids, you train every day, you get up at four in the morning. I got to get up at four in the morning. That's it. That's my answer.

Sorry to riff on you guys on that, man. I know you wanted to do the questions, but when that guy, when that, like, the first question was easy because I'm like, oh, I'll just talk about what I used to do. And then that one was like, well, if I was to try an answer right now, I'd be lying. I'd be a liar. And I can't. I have my moments still. Don't get me wrong.

I'll have moments where I'm like, this has to get done, and I'll fire through a speech or I'll write a report or whatever it is. And then I lose it. And it's like, ah, fuck, it's gone. And that's actually reinforcing what I just said. So when you have a near-term mission that you know what the outcome, you know what the result is, you know what the end state is, you know what the commander's intent is. Like, hey, you've got a speech in two days. Okay, now it's in one day. You can sit down and concentrate and get it done.

which where you've missed the connection now is the connection between these menial tasks that don't mean anything and how can I put them to a long-term strategic goal. And one of those long-term strategic goals you can put into place, if nothing else, is I'm going to discipline my mind to do these menial tasks like a soldier. And that's pretty cool. That's a T-shirt. Thank you, Jocko. So whoever asked that question, thank you for asking it, although I went off and talked about me for the most of it. Speaking of tangents, Echo's going to take it a little further out there. No, no, it's not a tangent.

It's what you said, how you said, that's what a soldier does. So that's like a little exercise. And I did this before. I did this in a couple of times where, like, one was how I quit drinking was I figured out, and you can do this with your diet as well. I figured out that basically through all the stuff that I read that you're wanting to eat junk food. or drink or whatever is your brain tricking you because it's built to it's evolved for a certain environment that that environment doesn't work isn't around anymore yeah yeah so now we're an environment of abundance that has to do it don't mean anyway came to the conclusion that it's your

brain falling for a trick your physiology of your brain falling for a trick makes you want this stuff how he says how jaku says that's not what a soldier would do I had it in my mind I'm not going to fall for that trick. I'm not a sucker. That's not, you know, doing this is what suckers do. I'm not a sucker. This is just like self, talking to yourself. So I essentially shamed myself out of drinking. Yeah. Just like he's doing the, basically the inverse into focusing, you know? I just remember, like, I'm the guy that we, in Kosovo, I quit smoking in a day because I

couldn't run up the hill next to our camp. I said, well, obviously these things aren't good anymore. and I literally I even had a pack on my pocket for like a week I just like yeah oh yeah okay throw those out I want that guy back and I'm in search

I think it's been 10 years since I was wounded I think I'm gonna find him again probably on the stage for this bodybuilding thing or something but yeah I just couldn't answer that question without talking about that

because I wouldn't have been truthful at this point in my life and that's what's cool is maybe that question right there is something that is forcing you to face that. I mean, you might have had it in the back of your mind, but now you're going, you know what? I can't answer that honestly, because I'm not there right now. I'm not. But I'm going to get back there real quick. I have my moments. So stand by,

people. Stand by. Soldiers coming back online. Reboot, Jody 3.0. All right. Next question. This is, I'll just read it. How you prepared mentally, what kind of discipline you had routines in and out of battle. How I prepared mentally routines in and out of battle. Yep. What kind of discipline you had and routines in and out of battle? I'm going to fall back on

mental routine I think is probably your biggest. Because the physical one is easy, okay? You come back. So battle doesn't mean you're in gun fights all the time. You know, like we say if we're standing still we're patrolling, right?

You know, it's just a static patrol. So, you know, you got to make sure your gear is good. You got to make, you know, are your batteries changed, right? You got, like, there's all the ways the checklist. Checklist, checklist, checklist. As a leader, it actually makes it easier, I found, because now I have a reason to check their stuff and check that their routine. So my routine stayed solid, right?

Because I had other guys I had to worry about. So rest is a big one. I used to have to order my guys to go to ground because there's only three of us and I used to my, Barry especially, I'd be like Barry, you need to be useful.

I need you to sleep. So my routine was like, make sure enough rest. Because you know that the saying mission before man? Sure, except when the man is the mission. So I need my man to be good.

Yeah. I was going to say if you abuse your man too much, you won't accomplish the mission. Yeah, like, you know, you know, you know the sacrifice the body. Well, let's wait. Let's think about that.

Because the body is what needs to get this thing done. There's only three of us. And in our case, you know, if you're a sniper, you're, you might be alone. You might be with one or two other guys. I can't afford to have a guy run head at first through a doorway to get through it because I need him to be useful after. You know, if you have a platoon, sure, you sacrifice Smith. He runs through the door. Hey, okay, you got 29 more guys. I can go through the door. So my routine was always like, you know, makes your Everything's topped up. Keep an eye out.

You know, do the mental checklist. And then visualize. Like, out of battle, I would try to, you know, I'd be on my, I remember, I'd lay on my bunk. And I'd always end up with my right foot crossed over my left foot and my, and my, and my arms up here on my chest. And I'd have my head back. And I would be going, okay. So, okay, we go down, you know, and contact left.

I would try to like, you know, visualize these things, you know, because as the team leader, I had the radio and I was security, because my boys, when they're in position, you know, my spotter is spotting and my shooter is shooting.

So like they're 12 o'clock. So I'm now everything else. Everything, the rest of the clock for them and for myself. So I was constantly rehearsing mentally what could happen. I'm calling it. I'm practicing a call for fire. I'm practicing an,

calling in an air strike. I'm practicing a nine-liner. I'm practicing just a grit. Do you guys use that term? What is the nine-line? Nine-line is a casualty evac. Call for fire, nine-line. Yeah.

No, no, but grit, like group range indication. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So my first, even with all the visualization, my first actual grit in a battle was did the bad, did a bad guy over there. It's supposed to be 6-3. uh, 300 by that tree,

you know, all, you know, um, uh, for effect or at your own time or something like, the calm, cool,

collected voice. But, you know, the guy was like 40 meters away and it was like, and my sniper was actually looking over him. Wave. He's like, I'm,

you know, I'm looking at that stuff. And I was like, fuck it. And I just shot on myself. But, uh, but my point is that,

even with all that practice and visualization and training, you know, that was my first attempt. So I was always just trying to make sure that my routine off the battlefield was putting my mind back, but in a controlled setting. You know, and then also, like I said, make sure, okay, yeah, how much sleep did you get? Okay, good, good, good. And that's the routine that, you know, you got to get the guys to relax, especially, like for me, I had to, I just had to make sure. because I only had me and two other guys.

I couldn't afford to lose one of them, whether it was to exhaustion or malnutrition or dehydration or sprained ankles or whatever. So I just did my best to keep that checklist going and visual. And I would encourage them to do the same. I'd be like, hey, what are you thinking about over there? Oh, you know, whatever.

I'd be like, hey, why don't you think about it? Remember when you made, like we're doing that shot and you missed or whatever? Like try and visualize, try and think about it. of what you did. You know, there's a lot of steps that go into pulling the trigger, you know, and, and, um, and then, you know, just think about that. Think about how it happened and encourage that.

You know, I'm, I'm a big fan of, um, of meditation and yoga and all that stuff. Like, if any, like, I think in our side of the world, we've lost a lot of that stuff. And I know we try to get it back and got people that do it are tree hugging, you know, spandex wearing weirdos or whatever, but yoga and meditation and stuff, like, that's all warrior culture from the past. You know, like samurai meditate, you know, ain't warrior monks fasted and prayed. That's just meditation. And they looked inside themselves a lot to try and, you know, a samurai's job was pretty tough.

Call them a pussy for meditating. Make sure I'm there so I can watch. And I firmly believe that that type of stuff keeps you functional for when you hit the battlefield. You know, that self, you know, as Grossman calls it, the self-reflection, self-inoculation as well. So that was my routine. It was just a constant rotation of thoughts and then, but the actions were always to prepare the, you know, the situation for what was coming. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. The one thing that I, that's actually a, like a really practical thing that I did, that, and that is I had, this is, again, this is just like a real practical thing. I had two cots, right? Slept in a cot, slept in one cot. The other cot was all my gear. And it was just laid out, gun, body armor. You know, everything was right there. And when I, when I got dressed to go out, all that thing was empty. And so never forgot anything. When I came back, everything went right back on the cot. Same spot. Same spot. Everything squared away.

So those, that to me was, and I figured that out really quickly. Okay, just gonna, I don't ever want to forget anything. Here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna put everything that I need right here.

So that I had, I didn't even think of it around my, you know how I said I would sit there, right foot over the left, all around me because we had a cot. We had ACOT. We couldn't afford two Canadian Army. Okay, sorry, man.

But around, we all had two by fours around us because we were in like a fob we built ourselves and each nail had it. So I had my chest rig, my rifle, my ammo pouches and then, you know, like, and then all around. But that was what I would, when I would go through my stuff, that's what I mean. Like, I would hang it up, open up the pouch. Okay, everything's there. Close it.

Next pouch. Make sure top up my mags, all that stuff. And I would make sure I'd get the guys to do the same thing. And when you're ready to go out in operation, all your nails are empty. That means you've got everything. Yeah. But the biggest thing with, like people call it routine

and they think there's magic to it. Right. There's not, it's just making sure you do the same thing over and over and over again. You know, as magical as Navy SEALs and snipers want to be, like it's not really that, it's not that mystical, I guess. It's just a lot of repetition. You know, the routine is that you repeat the same actions because that's what makes you good at them. Yeah, and I was telling you when we were driving over here at some point how we used to try and do everything.

Yeah, when you would fire up the cars together. Five or six Humvees lined up for an operation. They'd all be lined up ready to go. And then everyone would like get the word. It'd be like, load them up. And then you'd just see everyone would just get in the zone. Boom. You'd see everyone getting the vehicles.

and then we'd start the vehicles at the same time. There's no reason to do that. No, but there is. That's a Pavlov's dog type thing. There's no definable reason why you would do that. But our deal was, you know, okay, starting up in three, two, one, start up. And then you hear all the vehicle start up at once. And it's just like all those little things would, all those little disciplines would lend themselves to the team being more disciplined.

Those ignition switches might as well have been the switch in each guy's mind. Yep, yeah. As that vehicle is starting, everyone's brain is going into combat mode. And we're together. At the same time. We're synchronized from the word go when that happens. I love it. When you told me that, that was like, yeah, that would be the most badass thing to watch.

A bunch of Navy, could you imagine? A bunch of Navy SEALs load up and they have vehicles all start at the same time. I'd run. I'd be like, I'm not fucking with these guys. I'm out of here. It was an awesome sight of it when my guys, when I was a task for, commander, you know, I'd be sitting on base as guys were rolling out, and

I'd stand out there and salute him like, just like old school rights, but it is, you know, it was and they loved you for it. I love those guys, but the, the, those guys, I mean, every time you rolled out in the streets of Ramadi,

there was a decent chance you were getting blown up. There was a, dude, gunfight was almost guaranteed to happen, but the guys getting blown up. AEDs was a, real issue for you guys, eh? And I was thinking about this today.

The IEDs, we had statistically the most heavily IED road in all of Iraq was Route Michigan going from one end of the one end of Ramadi to the other. And there was IEDs all over the place. I mean, it was

ridiculous and we didn't hit any IEDs while we were there, which I was thinking about that today, because I was thinking about my EOD contingent. We had two EOD guys. And I never told them like, hey, we never had an IED.

Thank you. Never told them that. So you credit them with that? I credit them with part of it. Yeah, yeah. Part of the briefings that they gave, part of the, now there was some close calls, Laf's platoon, and a matter of fact,

it's in the book when the EOD guys were watching the front door. They couldn't quite keep an eye on it, but they did a really good inspection. of it. When they came back out, they're like, something looks different. They went down there and there's a 120 millimeter mortar IED. That would have taken out, I don't know, four or five guys. There was a time where we went over, we went over an IED. The point man navigator in the vehicles was like, hey, I think there's something

suspicious, actually got out of the vehicle to look at it. We're like, looking back, what do you think about that decision-making process? you know, maybe that wasn't a good one. Anyways, we decided, oh, I don't think it is. We drove over it in about half an hour later, the IED clearance team found a triple stack 120. So that's everybody in the vehicle dead. If you hit it.

So, yeah, IEDs were a massive threat. The number of guys that were killed and wounded by IEDs and Ramadi was ridiculous. There was a vehicle graveyard, you know, vehicles that had been blown up and then dragged back in with, I mean, it was massive. I mean, I want to say 50 to 100 vehicles are just piled up

and including MRAPs, which are the mine-resistant vehicles. Those things are in there broken in half. What kind of bomb do you got to put together to do that? We, yeah. Muge. We got real lucky, and I know this sounds weird. My rotation, they had conventional mines. So any purse and any tank.

And there was the occasional IED, but it was usually SV and in the city. SV means a suicide vehicle. So our regimental sergeant major and his driver were killed by a suicide vehicle-borne IED. And I stepped on a landmine. If I'd stepped on an IED, I would have vaporized. But the rotation that replaced us, our sister battalion, that's when we, the intelligence, says guys from Iraq started showing up. And we went from losing a tire,

maybe having one guy get killed through a penetration in the hull or whatever, to we had a whole lav go up and seven out of the ten guys in it were killed. And it was like, that's how quickly it escalated. And suddenly it was an issue for our guys as well. Almost every vehicle we had hit a landmine on my tour. And that was the only time I was ever really,

scared over there. When I was walking or an helicopter or even out on a four-wheeler, no problem. But when I had to drive on the roads in a vehicle, that's when I was like, that pucker factor was the highest for me ever. IDs, man, and the guys that would go out every day and deal with that shit?

Yeah, the ID clearance guys. Fuck, man. Like, my hat always came off to those guys. Oh, yeah. Like, talk about a nerve-wracking job. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

What's that movie? with the EOD guy? I don't know. Hurt Locker. Everybody who does that job says it's a total bullshit movie, but like, could you imagine though that's your gig? Well, like we had embedded EOD guys with us and Csians usually have EOD, Navy EOD guys that are basically like, our guys were like, they go through our training with us.

They don't go through the basic training, the basic seal training, but they go through everything else. Yeah. And our guys... They're like supporters. Well, once our guys... our guys were like other seals they were that good yeah

yeah and but yeah it's not it's amazing but and the guys that are with us they're with us and so they're not quite it's their primary job for us but it's not their primary job right right whereas

the guys that you're talking about the guys that did route clearance if anybody's listening to this podcast right now if you did route clearance in Iraq or Afghanistan Thank you Jocko and Jody Say thank you

Because you saved us so many times Because we drove down those roads all the time My guys drove down those roads all the time And you found all those bombs that saved Our lives and so many lives Kept the supplies rolling Even kept the local populace safe And you know how much credit and glory those guys get

None Not a lot None And in Ramadi There would be the The big vehicle, like a buffalo, you know, Buffalo is like a giant MRAP. You have to climb a ladder to get into it. So there'd be guys in there that would disable the bombs from inside.

They had a big robotic arm, and they would do that. But behind them would be a contingent of Marines in Humvees. And I'd say, oh, you guys, oh, yeah, we're just support. I'm like, oh, get some. Devil dogs. Marine Corps doesn't play around. They're like, oh, you need support. Cool, we'll just get Humvees and roll behind it.

But there's going to be big bombs blowing up. Yeah, we're in the Marine Corps. Yeah. No factor. We'll deal with it. I love Marines. Marine Corps is awesome. Anyway, questions from the interwebs.

Questions from the interwebs. Can you tell us about, Jody, can you tell us about your wife, the medic that helped save you? Now, you kind of talked about this a little bit on the first podcast we did together. So, you know what? I'll tell you about her. So, Atlanta is, um, so. I say her dad was in the army. And he's from Ireland.

He immigrated to Canada, joined the military, and he was an airborne commando. And Canada, back in the day, like that was pretty much, you know, that was one of our most fierce units.

And he commanded the jump school, which is like, oh, wow, that's pretty badass. He did the American Ranger course in 68. Bang. Yeah.

Some old Vietnam Rangers were running. Oh, running the show. Not old. They were young. Yeah, I should have said that. These fresh combat experience Rangers were running the show.

You know they weren't playing around. Yeah, he got kicked in the spine with a steel-toe boot. Yeah. And finished with a broken vertebrae. And, but, you know, so I always say she was drafted into the military at birth. And because she grew up on bases all over the world, Germany. I think South America and stuff. her dad ended up being in a embassy security and stuff.

She became a medic at a high school. I think she joined at 17 as well. She's a little bit older than me. And then she has more citations for saving civilians than she does for saving soldiers. She happens upon, she's like one of those angels, I guess, that just, one woman So here's one A woman had a heart attack

Behind the wheel Drove into a ditch Alana was right behind her Drove Stopped her car Jumped in the car Pulled her out Dead

Atlanta brought her back to life Right there at the side of the road No equipment Anything like that Just skill Skill and determination And kept her alive Until the paramedics showed up

And took over She's got a decoration for that You know She helped save my life and a lot of my friends. And one time we were driving and we came upon a scene and we were in my truck and Aila was still a baby. Still in our baby seat. And so I look up and I see it.

I think she might have been on her phone. I don't know what she was doing. And I see scatter cars, car parts everywhere. and one lone cop standing in the middle of it like a squirrel. And not because he's scared or anything. He's just, he's the only guy.

He's the first on the scene. And I look and I'm like, okay, something bad happened here. And I see one vehicle in the middle of it all. And I went, Atlanta, they need you. And she went, huh? I said, you see that van? They need you. She jumped out, jumped headfirst through the,

this van was crushed. And she went in there and there were the four-year-old little three-year-old little girl that had been hit with the car was T-boned. She stabilized the little girl's spine, kept her alive until the fireman showed up. They extracted. She was in command of the scene. They were like, I guess I was doing my best to help the cop with traffic and stuff like this

and deal with some of the other minor injuries. And the fireman, like, the first guy to put his head in, he's like, I kind of heard like, well, who is this? And then all I hear is Lano like, I need this. And I need like, she's barking out all these orders. And I got, yeah, okay, hang on. So they're running. They're getting all this stuff.

And they get the board and they put the little, the girl, the, the girl ended up passing away, unfortunately. But zero hesitation. That's my wife. Fucking hero. And, you know, she retired from the military last year and is going through, she's probably going to get mad at me for saying this, but she's going through it. A lot of soldiers go through the transition. Oh, you mean the thing we've been talking about for all night and all last podcast?

She's just, she's just having a tough time figuring out who's Atlanta Gilmore if she's not a soldier. And she's an amazing mom. She's an amazing wife. And she's an amazing person. It's just, in her mind, she needs to find the new her. And, you know, and I'm trying to help her the best I can. but, you know, I can only do so much.

And at some point, she'll figure it out. She's coming around pretty good right now, I think. She's starting to, like, volunteer a little bit here and, like, get out and do some stuff. And, you know, I'm pretty, you know, I'm just proud of her, you know, for the most part. Yeah. You know. That's one of the things that makes that transition so hard is that, you know, before I was talking about, like, combat matters. And then beyond that, you're doing this thing.

You know, for your wife, like she's in charge of saving people's lives, saving soldiers' lives, and that's going to help the strategic mission. I mean, what is going to replace that for her? And the answer, Alana, is nothing. Nothing's going to replace that. Yeah. But you know what? You don't need to replace it. You don't need to replace it.

Uh, whole stock replaced that thing. that's a beautiful, beautiful experience to have had in your life. But don't let it turn into a black hole, right? Like the mass of a black hole is some insane number, just like the mass and the power of this combat experience is the same thing. It's this super powerful experience. But don't let it suck all the other experiences away.

Don't let it do that. Don't let it do that. So what's the what's what else? What matters now? We know what mattered in the past. Right. But what matters now? That's the question.

And there's so many things. I mean, you've got two daughters. You got your dumb ass to take care of. And I am dumb. She'll tell you. So what is it? What are those things that matters? And what's the next mission she's going to find?

Maybe she's going to end up being a paramedic. Maybe she goes, you know, who knows? Maybe she'll end up being an artist. Maybe she'll end up having her own podcast. Maybe she'll end up being a painter. I don't know. But what mattered in the past is awesome. But let's find out what matters now.

Yep. And grab hold of that. Baby listen to Jocko now. Hold on to that thing. And let that thing grow. Yeah. Let that thing grow. Let that thing feed off of the past and bring something new, something bigger,

something that happening, something that's happening now. But that's my wife. Yeah, that's awesome. You must be damn proud of where I can see it on your face. Like, I don't have any decorations for saving people. You know, either do I. Like, you know, I think about what I, what I saw, I saw a lot of destruction,

but honestly, it was mostly the enemy, you know, that I caused. And I'm like, it's easy to step over him. Like, he doesn't look like me. He doesn't talk about. like me, doesn't dress like me. I don't even know that, you know, I didn't know nothing about that guy. Step over him, carry on. She rolls up, let's just take my case.

She knows me. I'm Jody. I'm her buddy. We watched a family guy together. I used to, you know, her ex-husband and I used to, we're buddies, you know, like, you know, all these things. And she would, whenever she would roll up to a scene, it was to clean up the mess the enemy made of us.

And she knew most, we're a tiny army man. Yeah. And our, we're, a brigade for us is like 3,200 guys, maybe, maybe, maybe 2,500 in 2006. So she knew most of the guys that she put in the body bags or like in my case, she says, after they loaded me on the helicopter and it flew away, she was just sad because she knew what I was going home to because of my injuries, right? She was like, she knew more about your future than you did. Exactly. She knew what a nightmare you were.

about to go through. She knew what I was and who I was and what I was now going to be, like have to become and accept. And she says that, she said that in an interview. She'd never said that to me. And I read an interview she gave once. And she said, yeah, I just, I was just devastated for him because of what he was going to go home to.

This big, tough, strong, proud guy had to go home without feet. She's just like, oh. And I guess she said something like, you know, if nobody else looks after him, I guess I got to. God damn it, she did. Next question. Props to Alana. Love you, baby.

Awesome. Kind of a next question, which I paired these two together because this one relates to it. How do you deal with being away from family and loved ones? I'm odd. I'll always have been.

I think this might be where I might be a little bit like you. Do you have you? I just I don't really miss people Yes Does that make sense? Yes

You know what I'm saying I know I can see it Okay you know I don't miss people Because I know I'm gonna see them again Even my daughter I love my daughters Love my daughters And I'll walk in the house

And they're better than puppies right They jump on me and I get daddy daddy The seven year old still does it I get kisses I get hugs I get where were you You were gone so long but like today I haven't spoken to them and I don't miss them

I know that they're out there but on a certain level when I do get home I'm real happy to be home like you were saying to me on the phone like you just want to get home but when I'm away from home you're in the game

yeah especially for this I guess because I'm here to promote the book and I'm here to hang out with you guys so I'm like I'm looking forward and it's like when my dad was crying in the parking lot before I went on my first mission ever, to me it was like, what's the big deal, dude?

I'll be back in six months. And, you know, my best buddies, you know, the guys that I was happy didn't die in combat, I've talked to them every three to six months, you know. I just talked to the leader of that Green Bray team that I worked so much with just the other day after two years of not actually speaking, you know, a couple messages on Facebook and it's weird for me yeah I'm very similar I don't I don't feel the need to continually update people or talk to people and my best example is a guy I went through seal training with did three platoons with him at seal team one was in training cell with him at seal team one and he was my

roommate that entire time so eight years or so we were and we we did everything together drank together hung out together everything we did and I got and then I got moved to Virginia Beach for two years, didn't talk to him. Not one single time. Not a letter, not a phone call. Nothing. Came back, I told him, I was like, hey, what's up, man? Oh, yeah.

Hey, you want a burger with us? You know what I mean? It was just like nothing. You picked it right up. Picked it right up. And that's how I always feel. So, and I kind of do that with my family, at least, you know, I'm assuming that this person is a guy that's thinking about being on deployment without his family.

And so, yeah. And again, what I talked about earlier is I'm in a compartmental. and say, and I'll tell you, this is, I didn't want to talk to my wife and kids every day at all when I was on deployment. I didn't want, you could do it. I mean, if you were on base, you could do it. I mean, for those of you that don't know overseas, most places overseas right now, you got internet, you got satellite phone, you can call home, you can, I did not want to do that with my wife and with my family. When was your first deployment? 2003, 2004.

That was your first one ever? Oh, no, no, no. My first appointment was in 92, 93. Yeah. Mine was Kosovo, 99. You called home on a, you had one phone. It was seven second delay. And you got 15 minutes a week.

Maybe it was four second delay. I just know, like, it sucked. There was no such thing as email. Email in 99. First of all, I didn't even have an email. And so there was one guy on base who was the geek. And he would go back to the main camp where they had the interweb. And you had to give him your email and the password.

And he would download your messages onto a CD-ROM, come back with it and print it off on the clerk's computer for you. I wonder if our type of thinking about it is a response from the fact that we just didn't have it the first time. And then between 99, 2006, in 2006, I had a sat phone in my pocket for every, everywhere I went. I could have called home all day every day, but I didn't. Because I was like, well, first of all, it's a treat.

And second of all, I got a lot of work to do. And I can't be worrying about, one time I was on the phone and a shot went over my head. Hey, Dad, I got to go. And then I think your guy, Chris Kyle, in his book, he talks about being on the phone and then a gunfight starts. And his wife listens to the gunfight because he forgot to hang up. the phone. Are you kidding me? Putting your family through that.

But I think maybe our situation is that we came from the generation where that just wasn't an option anyway. So I would love to talk to some of the newer guys. Yeah. About this subject. I did two, I did three shipboard deployments as a seal. So we used to

deploy on ships. And the first one I went on on the, we didn't have internet. So it was old school. You'd get mail written. in mail. But that was the norm. Once every 30 days or 35 days, it'd be like mail call. Everyone would be all excited. But, yeah, I think that that definitely conditions you to not be addicted to having that.

And I don't think you're helping the home front either to call every day and say, I miss you so much. I can't wait to call home. I don't know if it helps the home front either. I think it actually is a little bit painful for the home front. I was talking to one of the wives the other day of some of our guys that are deployed. Don't get mad at me, ladies. Well, there's a lot of ladies that are deployed too nowadays.

That's true. But I was talking to a wife of a guy I know, and she says, yeah, I haven't heard from so-and-so for like four days. I'm like, huh? I'm like, he's probably on op. Like, you know what he does for a living. You know exactly what he does for a living. Ops can take a while.

He's like, yeah, but usually he gets back to me. And I'm like, obviously he's on a long. up, but their condition now to always hear back from you. You know what? You talked about this in your book, which is life's going to go on. Yeah. And I think that that's something, too, that will help. You know, if you're, like for this guy, that's going to be gone for a long time,

and how's he going to deal with it, except the fact that life's going to go on. And just be cool with that. Things are going to change. The things are going to get remodeled. This is going to be some new rugs in the house. It's going to be a new piece of furniture. The fridge might break, and she'll go. get a new one.

Exactly. And there's nothing you can do about it. And just be cool with it. Yeah. If you don't like the colors she picks, say, thanks for getting the new fridge. Yeah. Thanks for taking care of that. Because I was busy protecting freedoms and democracy in the world.

All right. Next one. What are your workout slash training methods? I usually make it up as I'm walking into the, no, okay. Right now, because I am bodybuilding. and I'm going, like, I'm doing, you might be hearing from Echo here in a second. He's the big time bodybuilder.

Do you bodybuild? No. No. Okay. So I've worked out since, you know, I was 16 with weights, right? But I always, so my first mission in Afghanistan, because I was a driver slash bodyguard, and remember animal stack?

Yes. The supplement, which was basically steroids. Yes. So we would order, we ordered a shit ton of animal stack. And because we had a lot of downtime, we watched, you know, like 24 of the series on DVD, and we worked out. I came home, like, benching, like, whatever four plates aside is, deadlifting, like, I was, like, huge. We looked awesome. What did you weigh?

240 or something crazy like that. And then I tried to get behind my sniper rifle because I was not operating as a sniper, right? And I was like, oh, God, okay, couldn't, too big. Tried, tried rucking. Threw my rucksack on and tried to go up a hill. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. So I had to slim back down.

I realized I'm like, oh, being a meathead is not conducive to being a sniper. So I always try to tailor my body around being a sniper, especially after that. And, but now, like I said, I'm going to be 40 in January. It's going to be 10-year anniversary getting blown up in January. and I wanted to quit drinking, and I needed a new goal to move towards. So I said, I'm going to get into bodybuilding. And if you know anything about bodybuilding, I don't want to look like Phil Heath. I want to look like Arnold when he was in the 70s, when they still looked human.

So you picked a realistic goal. Yeah, something where I might not need supplementation from another country. And not that there's anything wrong with it, whatever, man. of, to me, my view on that stuff is if it gets you to where you want to be and you're not hurting anybody, who cares, right? It's your body, do whatever you want with it. So, but for bodybuilding, you look good. So I'm doing the physique class, which means you wear board shorts and you don't necessarily have a routine, but they tell you how to pose. Like they, like, we want to see your abs. We want to see your glutes, whatever, whatever. So you

kind of just stand a certain way. And I take direction. well, right? I'll be on the parade square basically. So you look good, but you're not really good for much when you're in that condition. So I want the picture of me with a six-pack. I'll be 40. I'll have a glass of water. It'll all go away. And then I'll celebrate the 10-year anniversary of getting blown up. And at least I'll know that I've got like somewhat of the type of body I used to have back. Okay, all that being said, my training now is being directed by my buddy Nick and I do whatever he tells me. And right now it's chest and arms one day, back and shoulders another day and legs another

day. Can you squat? No. How do you? What do you do? It sucks because that was my favorite exercise. Of course. Of course.

But there's got to be some like modified. I do a hack squat. Okay. There you go. You know the machine? Yeah. So I recently discovered it like in the last six weeks. I discovered this machine hack squat.

before I was doing leg press and curls. I can't really do extensions because the stumps are a different length. And where the pad rests across my shins, it puts too much torque on my stumps. But then I found this hack squat thing, and it's made all the difference. So I, you know, slap as much weight on it as I can stand and I just squat. Because it's almost like a squat. Yeah. It's pretty close, but I'm supported.

So my wife, Atlanta's noticed a firmer ass. There you go along. Things like that, you know. And so anyway, my routine is just that. And, you know, the food is, I'm a big baby when it comes to food. I've never eaten my vegetables. And I don't care what Nick says or what my mommy used to say. I'm not going to eat them.

That's what my food eats. You know, I'm a meat and potatoes guy, pretty much. And that's about it. I'm the worst eater of food. like fear factor with Joe Rogan's old show I would be the worst contestant I would be such a well I might be able to pull it off because I've eaten some pretty gross things because I had to right but um like I just don't like a lot of foods I'm the same yeah and I don't care what anyone tells oh come on you just got to try it I'm not I'm not trying it yeah I just smelled it I

want to throw up get away from it it's something I don't want my mouth how about that okay how about you just get me the steak without any spicy or sauces on it like I asked for, and the plain potato I want next to it. Yeah. And I'll throw some butter and some pepper on that bad boy. That sounds like a good point. That's what food tastes like, and that's what I love. You know, Atlanta makes fun of me because my favorite ice cream is vanilla.

I'm like, my life is exciting enough. I don't need no strawberry sprinkle bubble gum ice cream. It's bringing my vanilla. Maybe a brownie on the side. Yeah, I don't know. I do go with the mint chocolate chip milkshake. but oh really mint chocolate chint chint so what about what so you're like steak and potatoes do you are when you go to this bodybuilding thing you're going to have to drop a bunch of fat yeah so i'm dropping

the fat what are you got to do that by diet right that's diet and so what are you going to do what do you know what next going to put you on for a program for that we start that next week you think he's going to go like no carbs all fat he's he's a proponent of the old school body building where you never want to be in ketosis really but he's a bodybuilder. I want to get him to re-look at the physique stuff. Because, you know, if you read Arnold's new

update modern book on bodybuilding or encyclopedia of bodybuilding, which he rewrote in the 90s, they still went by the whole fuel the muscle with the carb thing, right? But they looked amazing. So they're like, they might have been on to something

because you got to think about, they were on the juice. Well, Arnold's, Most of those guys, they say, in the 70s, they weren't juicing. No, actually, you're completely wrong. Those guys were absolutely juicing 100%. In the 70s? In the 70s, absolutely.

And it wasn't even- Not like today. Not like today, but Arnold was absolutely 100% on steroids, as were all those guys back in the day. And they weren't illegal yet. But in the book, he says they didn't really know what they were, like, their effect. They knew they helped. Oh.

But they didn't have it down to a science. You know what their effect was? 27-inch arms or whatever? Yeah, they didn't have it to a science, but they were absolutely 100% on the sauce. Right. And it wasn't illegal at the time. Yeah, that's right.

So that might be where that idea comes from of, hey, they weren't on anything. They were absolutely on stuff. That's how they got so completely yoked. Nick, yeah, they did look pretty good. You said that earlier. They were like, oh, you don't want to be natural, like, Schwarzenegger in the 70s. Well, they still looked human, is my point.

They looked more human than they do now. Like, did you, have you watched Generation Iron? Yeah, I mean, the guys now are just mutants. Yeah. And that's great. Good for them. Amazing. But I can't, I need to lose weight to be on prosthetics.

Like, I can't be putting on that kind of weight. Yeah, yeah. So, Nick's thing is ketosis is bad because you risk losing muscle mass. And that's kind of counter to the whole bodybuilding thing. the transitional period you do risk that if you're not in ketosis and it varies from person to person

some people they go through they switch over to ketosis right away and you know the risk you know they don't lose out but some guys it takes weeks and yeah you muscle muscle muscle muscle muscle yeah I'm like I'm not that big yet

at all but I mean we're still we got till November and as long as it's you know it'll probably be a protein heavy with the normal carbs, rice and potato, sweet potatoes, stuff like that. Like a little bit of olive oil and coconut oil and stuff. You just go lots of fat, pretty good amount of protein, no carbohydrates.

Yeah, no, so echo those. But this is my thing. This is after the bodybuilding, yes. That's how I eat anyway. Oh, okay. I do love me some pasta, though. And Atlanta and I will crush a pizza. Like, we'll, oh, yeah.

That's our thing. Friday night, we get a pizza, we rent a movie on iTunes. You've got to get the occasional pizza. It's understood. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But occasional. Yeah.

But my general rule for myself is that it's usually a high protein, like low carb diet. And if, and I like to eat, like if I'm not eating, I like to be taking in like a shake or something, like every three or four hours. Have you tried to intermittent fasting? Yes. Yeah. How'd you like that? it's okay I don't mind it I like it as far as convenience goes

I'm not eating today I'm gonna work more yeah and I I did a 48 hour fast a little while ago just out of randomness like one day I worked all day or traveled or something I didn't eat and then the next morning I worked out right away and then I had a phone call and then I did something and I was like dang it's been 24 hours

I'm just gonna throw 48 on this thing so I went 48 it was no factor did squats so you have zero intake Or do you have a coffee? No, I drank water. Just water. Drink water. And you know what?

I did squats, rolled Jiu-Jitsu both days. It was no factor. Yeah, I did a 48-hour, but I had coffee. Did you feel all right? Oh, it's fine. I felt fine. Like, I had a little bit of tightness for a bit. But, like, whatever.

Like in the stomach? Yeah, I'll tell you, once you read the Forgotten Highlander or any of these books, where I'm talking about these people that are just going months without. food or the people up in North Korea eating, what is it, root and salt water soup, that's your meal? God. Oh, we found some weeds out there. Do you ever have the dichotomy in your mind of if I was a caveman, I'd be fine, but then you

realize it's 2016 and why are you depriving yourself of something? Or why aren't you taking full advantage of the technology available to you, whether it's protein shakes or or supplements like on it. I feel like you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I agree with you on those points, but a lot of people think that the benefits of 2016 are a twinkie, you know? Oh, yeah, no.

You know, a bag of potato chips or whatever. And that's, I was picking my kids up from school yesterday. And I was sitting in the office waiting from them to come down. And then there's this young fella sitting over there by the next to the principal's office, eating his lunch. I assume because he can't be trusted around other kids at lunch or something. I don't know what the deal is.

And he pulled a twinkie out of his lunch. I almost fell over. Who gives their kid a twinkie at lunch? Yeah. That's supposed to be Christmas. Maybe. When I was a kid, I don't know about you. When I was a kid.

Oh, you're thirsty? Here's a Coke. Oh, you're still thirsty? Here's another Coke. Oh, you're hungry? Potato chips. My mom would read the ingredients on stuff and be like, oh, there's way too much sugar in this shit.

I got cocoa puffs for my birthday. My parents, oh, I was, I was like. Rice Krispies and corn flakes the rest of the time. Thank you, mom. Yeah, I was lucky charms. I mean, we just ate. And it wasn't like my parents said, oh, this might be bad. That was just what people bought when I was a kid.

No, my mom was on top of that stuff. And I have that too. Like, there's sugar and like a loaf of bread now. Yeah. I give my daughters a two-slice sandwich. that's like 12 grams of sugar if they eat the whole thing I'm like why is there sugar in the bread

And and like I'll be I'm not I'm like an 80 20 guy Whatever that you know the 80% Like 80% of the time I eat pretty good 20% of the time I'm getting after some crap right

I'm a lot like that And most of the time it's because the other day I was doing some I was added to them I was traveling And it wasn't the pretzel wrapped hot dogs That we are all so fond of It was but I was legit hungry, and I knew I was getting back early enough in San Diego that I was going to be able to get a workout and train.

So I had like a milkshake and a double meat sandwich of some kind. Where? Where? Some random place in the airport. Oh, the airport food. Oh, yeah, dog. Yeah, yeah. It was good time.

Airport milkshakes. Ooh. Milk shakes are tasty. milkshakes are tasty So do you make That kind of stuff at home though to try and trick yourself Makes what kind of stuff at home So to trick myself into thinking I'm having a treat right?

I got I get my blend tech I'll put coconut milk in Sugar free because you got to actually search for that one You can't just Oh Anyway so put my coconut milk in I throw in a couple scoops of protein I throw in a couple scoops of organic

organic sugar-free peanut butter, which you got to search out again. Did you know they take the peanut oil out of peanut butter now? That's insane. Why do they do that? They sell it off, and then they put the vegetable oil in. So now you got to search out real peanut butter. Thanks. Thanks, world.

Anyway, so I put in a couple scoops of real peanut butter that I get at the bulk barn and a scoop of glutamine. But when I, and then I ice it, right? And then I spin it up, and it's kind of like a shake, like a milkshake. Send me the recipe if it tastes good. And I'll put a shot of espresso in often. And it just makes me feel like I'm having a treat. And so I'm like, oh, that's my sugar tooth satisfied for the morning or something.

I think I've said this. My treat that I give to myself is dark chocolate. And by dark, I mean 85%. It's almost bitter. And I dip it directly into coconut oil. The on it coconut oil, I dip it right in there and scoop that in. And that is money. Yes.

It's so good. I'm going to try that. So good. And the other thing about, if you eat, if you and I, we like broke out some Hershey's bars here, milk chocolate, you take one bite, you want another bite immediately. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You want another bite immediately. You don't, but you do. And you do it.

Yeah. Right. You take a couple squares of 85% chocolate and it's like it satisfies it and it doesn't make you go, oh, that was good. And it takes the, it gives you the satisfaction. It takes longer. That's my special treat. To eat the dark chocolate I find as well.

Don't you find that? It stays in your mouth longer. The taste. It's just a little bit bitter. Get the dark chocolate. But the coconut oil. With the coconut oil, makes it a little bit of,

just makes it so good. How have I not heard this on your podcast before? I don't know if I've said that. Why on it? Coconut oil, by the way. I love on it. I've been using it before it was called on it. But why their coconut oil?

That's the one he got. Yeah, it's the virgin coconut oil. Yeah, yeah. It's really high quality coconut oil. Which is a, what I do. And actually, it's good to, in supporting on it, I actually do support this podcast. So, uh, whoever asked about nutrition, it's, um, ah, you know, one thing I will, that was me that asked about nutrition. Wasn't that? No, the question was about working out. We kind of delved into

nutrition. Oh. Okay. Well, Jock, um, the other thing, my guts got destroyed by the antibiotics in my recovery and it took me figuring it out on my own like why was I constantly having like diarrhea why was I constantly not like just an upset stomach and then I started re okay what causes it do I have IBS or blah blah oh no I was on six months worth of a of antibiotics killed everything in your gut and then I'm had I've had staff infections like I had a year one year where I had like four staff infections in my stumps in a row and it just like just ha you know it just hammers because I was getting sick and like, so I'm like, what's wrong? And then I realize, oh, okay.

So now every morning I, like, I keep a bottle of kombucha in the fridge. Every morning, I just shake it up, take a swig. I have a probiotic pill that I take with that swig. And that's made a huge difference. And I'm always seeking out different ways to keep the gut flora happy. You know, so like apple cider vinegar. Apple cider vinegar and kombucha and the probiotics, those three additions, I've made a huge, difference in my in my in my system like my immune system alone and then I like I just

started jack and massive amounts of vitamin D E and C into my body and then I've I've kept a real close eye on like so as a kid like you know when we were eating lunch I didn't want onions or mushrooms because as a kid I didn't like them and I found out later as an adult well I'm actually slightly allergic to them so whatever your body tells you pay real close attention, you know, because nothing will screw with your gains or your workout routine more than feeling like shit, right? And, and so if you eat something and you feel like shit after, you know, pay attention to that because that can take a lot of energy away from your workout and just from your day, you know, like you go rolling to work with a headache because

you ate something that you're actually allergic to. Like that can really mess with your mood. So I pay super, that's, so one of the reasons why I'm such a basic eating. eater is because I've learned that that's how I feel best and I function best when I have minimum sub like minimum like additions to like you know when you go to the get breakfast right nothing better than bacon and eggs in the morning until they bring your home fries and they're covered with paprika Montreal spice shit all over them and I'm like why would you do that to my potatoes potatoes are delicious with a little bit of bread butter and and salt Oh, they come like that

Can I have some without it? Ooh, yeah. Okay, you know what? Keep your potatoes. Because I've learned that if I have that go in my system, I'll spend a good half hour on the can. And that's time I don't can't afford. So if anyone is like, you know,

when you're, the big part of your routine is the fact that you have to have the energy and like just not feel like shit when you go into the gym. Yeah. So that's why. By the way, Just so everybody knows the probiotics, and there's bacteria in your stomach that's supposed to be there.

That's good for you. Yeah. And that's what Jody's talking about. That's why he drinks kombucha and has the probiotic pill because it keeps those things alive. And what he was referring to earlier than that, when you take antibiotics, it actually kills all that bacteria. And then that makes your stomach not be able to get that. That's why they came out with the yogurt a few years ago. the,

whatever it was called. Acetophilus. Yeah. And I don't know. There was that yogurt and they started selling it because it'll replenish your good flora.

Yeah. Whatever, whatever. Yeah. A few more into webs. We got one more question. Do you ever have doubts? If so, how do you handle them?

Yeah. I talked about the doubt I had answering that second question. if you don't have any doubt, I'm going to be real suspect of you as a person. So we all have doubts. Hey, folks, sorry to break it to you. Jocko occasionally has doubts. He'll never admit it, right?

But doubts are part of being human. And if you're not doubting yourself, you're not challenging yourself either, I believe. This is just what I think. So I try to approach my doubts. head on unflinching, you know. Did I have doubt the third time I got sent into battle school? Yeah, big time. But put on the best uniform, put on, you know, get in the best shape,

polish your boots to the highest standard, be prepared to get shit on, and bulldog your way through and smile while you're eating that shit sandwich. You know, like the doubt is, yeah. You ever heard that, like, you ever talk to someone and they talk about what they want, they really want to be doing? Okay. So I have a, I have a buddy of mine. He's a cop. But he really wants to sell T-shirts.

And he's like, yeah, well, you know, I'm just waiting. You know, there's a time. There's a time. He even made a T-shirt for me. And he's probably going to listen to this. And he knows who he is. And, bro, I told you this at the time. He said, let's sign a contract for 12 months.

And this, I'm like, you know, I don't, um, six months tops. And, you know, if that. And he's like, why? What's the matter? I'm like, well, I just, I just don't think you're going to, this is it. This is where you're are. He's like, why? And I'm like, because you're not putting the, like, you're a cop.

You're not a t-shirt seller. And he, he's, you see, he's doubting himself to take that leap, you know. Did I have a doubt when I put my name in for the election? Hell yeah, I did. I've never been a politician. I was a gunfighter. I was a sniper. But I deal with doubt by dealing with the situation.

Does that make sense? Yeah. Because I want to know that I can, A, get through it. And if I fail, I fail. That's, hey, man, I fail all the time. I failed reading your book. You know, I failed making to the airport in time yesterday. But, and I have doubt all the time.

But I also have enough confidence in myself that I'm willing to try almost anything. And I don't know if that's really. the question that was asked, but the answer is the same, because fear is the thing that holds you back from almost anything in your life. Was I nervous when I put my hand up to volunteer to go on sniper course?

Hell yeah, I was, but where did I want to be? I wanted to be on sniper course. Was I nervous the first time I was in charge of a sniper team going into combat? Uh-huh, but guess what? There was nowhere else I wanted to be. Doubt is your mind telling you, telling you, you know, to think about the things you need to think about anyway, right? Like,

the doubt is there for a reason. It's a self-preservation mechanism. And you need to use that doubt to put the thoughts into your mind to visualize the successful outcome. Like we talked about earlier, visualization. You know, I picture failure all the time and then I picture how will I deal with it. You know, doubt, doubt to me is just a question to ponder and then move on you know so that's that's how I do it I'm going to say for me I agree the doubt is really how I know that I'm pushing myself into a zone that I'm not used to but like the enemy I respect my doubts I'm not afraid to them but I'm not afraid to them but I respect them.

I'm going to watch them. I'm going to listen to them. I'm going to understand my doubts. But I'm not going to be afraid of them. And I'm going to destroy them. I get chills when he talks like that. And I think that's about all we've got for tonight. Echo Charles, how can everybody just step on up and support this podcast?

Yeah. Well, there's a few ways. As we're talking about earlier, if you want to do some Amazon shopping, click for a book called Unflinching. Sure. Unflinching. And what we do, and this is no exception, is all the books that we talk about, we list them on joccopodcast.com. We have listed what kind of what they're about and what episode they're from and stuff like that. There's a link on there.

You click on it. Boom. You can buy it from right there. That's the paperback right there. Paperback. And also one of the coolest pictures ever taken of me. Yeah, I was checking out your picture here

and you have that little fun meter patch. You had that thing pegged. For those of you that don't know that weren't in the military, that was one of guys wear different random patches. And some of them are, you know, proud historical patches of their unit.

And some of them, and if you get this, if you order the hard cover, it looks like that, you can't see it. But on the soft cover, you can see Jody's got the little and everybody in the military knows with this is a little fun meter patch and the fun meter is

pegged. Meaning, oh, I'm having all kinds of fun here. So that's awesome. There they are. Paperback, hardcover. I like hardcover. That's what I do. That's good. But yeah, do that. So we'll list that one obviously. I can get through Amazon. And then if you guys like the shirts, discipline equals freedom. And the one with Draco's head on it. I'll get you on

too, by the way. Thanks, but yeah. Get one of those if you want to support. And then, of course, do your shopping at Onit in the event of you wanting supplements that actually work because you got to watch out for supplements, bodybuilding and stuff, a lot of supplements. Not regulated, they can put anything they want in them and sell them to you. So get Onet supplements, my opinion. Jock.com slash Jocko. 10% off.

Get your Shroom tech. I think Shroom, depending on what you're doing, if you're doing high intensity, sustained exercise shroom tech. AlphaBrain, if you want to think better. and creole oil if you want your joints to hold up with the passage of time. Do they still have the Shroom Tech immune? Yes, they do. I love that one. I find that one good for when you're traveling.

You were into on it even before. Yeah, I forget what it was called, but Audrey, because he was on Rogan, right, like years ago, before they started on it. And he had these two supplements, because Arbrae used to like to party, take out from that statement, whatever you want. But that's how he would put it. And he had a supplement called Roll On, I believe. And it was meant to, like, roll on to the next day. And you take it when you're hung over. Gotcha.

And I started, I ordered it. And because when I was very sluggish and all that from the stuff, from my addiction and just, you know, the whole immune system. Like, I was looking for anything. So anyway, that's why I started using it. Yeah. They have one. It's called New Mood. It's for like.

Oh, I love New Mood. You know. Love it. Yeah, yeah. Man, they have a lot of good stuff for all kinds of stuff. Yeah, man, so get on that. Jocko or jaco or on it.com slash jaco, 10% off, boom. And if you want to hit up, if you want to keep hearing anything from Jody,

you can get him on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, he's all up in the game. At Jody Minik, Middick, M-I-T-I-C. And the Jody Middick podcast will start being posted on IT. If not today, then very short. That's right. And today being, what are we, Saturday? This goes up Wednesday.

People are going to be listening to this. You don't know when people are going to be listening to this. Right. You can just tell them, listen, check out the Jody Middick podcast. The Jody Middick podcast on iTunes. I'll be talking about all kinds of cool stuff on there. That's Jody. Echo is at Echo Charles.

And I am at Jocko Willink on all those things too. Jody, you got any closing words? Once again, just thanks everybody. You know, this is a real honor for me to share the same space as someone as as incredible as you, Jocko, and Echo. Meeting you has been a pleasure. High quest. It's my continued seek, you know, I have a thing I call it, I seek knowledge.

You know, I'm seeking the knowledge to continue to grow as a human and continue to learn who I am. And it's experiences like this that make it, that make it happen. and make it possible. And just thanks, man. This has been awesome. Well, again, thanks for coming on yourself. And as I said before, most importantly, thank you for your service.

The world is a better place for what you did in the Army and for what you have done and are doing with your life. It's an inspiration to everybody that hears it and knows it. And everybody else that's out there listening. All those troopers, I tell you, go do the same thing. Go follow the example set by Jody Middick and so many other brave veterans and brave people in the world that face their demons. Whatever those demons are, they face them and overcome them and make the world. a better place by making themselves better people.

So go out there, make yourself better. Look that demon in the eye and get after it. Until next time, this is Echo and Jody and Jock. Out.