Jocko Podcast - Jocko Underground: Chat GPT VS. Jocko Willink

Episode Date: May 30, 2023

Chat GPT VS Jocko's principles. Having trouble speaking up in meetings. Red teaming and critical thinking. What path to take as a young man. NoFAP?How to be successful regardless of your residence. Getting on the program?Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 91, sitting here with Echo Charles. Chat GPT. Yeah. It's coming. Matter of fact, you could say it's already here. So I've been playing around with Chad GPT, see what the deal is. You've used it for something?

Yeah. What have you used it for? Plenty. So actually, I found a lot of stuff. I don't want to go off on too much of a thing. But chat, GPT turns out so far, in my experience, to be like an assistant. person who's down to do all the research you need them to do forever um what have you researched

oh the last thing I researched was actually you I said write a script about X Y Z written by Jocko Willink how'd it do bad terrible I've tried that too it's not it's off yeah it's it ends up with a you get you get over the caricature that's what you get a caricature of My writing or of me yeah my personality. Yeah, it was literally here's the the put it this then again. I know it's just a state of Of like how it is right now. I understand that like literally like next week. It could be better in theory. It actually is better right now. Yeah, but currently Given when I did it a few days ago, whatever, it was poor it did a very poor job very poor job. It was using words that I literally witnessed you say, I would never use that word. And it used that word.

Do you know what it is? What? Warrior. Yeah. I mean, you use a word. But there's a very specific time for that. Yeah. And that's what I mean.

And it's not an often used word. Yeah. Like you, I forget the exact context. You said it, but it was under certain circumstances. You would say, I would never use the word warrior. Yeah. For like, for that. that thing.

Yeah, used it. Yeah, more than once, by the way. Well, I was playing with chat GPT, so I asked it,

I asked chat GPT. What are some flaws from Jock-Willink's principles? Pretty straightforward. It does a pretty good job. It does like a 90% job, but here's the problem. The 10% is like real critical.

Yeah. It misses. It's like saying, hey, 90% of the, the ingredients for your steak were correct. You know, butter, salt, pepper steak, but the part that the ingredient misses is steak.

It landed on me as a very generic result, like a very generic, like response to your, your prompts. So I asked at this prompt, what are some flaws from Jocko Willink's principal? And it said this Chaco Willink is a former Navy SEAL author and motivational speaker known for his disciplined and no-nonsense approach to leadership and personal development While he has a large following and is respected by many there are a few criticisms associated with him Number one it says and it gives both that chat GPT really likes bullet points and lists It's a first one it says aggressive and militaristic approach

Some critics argue that Willinks leadership philosophy and communication style can be overly aggressive or militaristic. His emphasis on extreme ownership and discipline may not resonate with everyone as it can be perceived as rigid or unyielding in certain contexts. So I actually agree with that that that perception because what does it call it? It says critics well actually I guess it's this is what's my fault. It's my fault. It's my fault. because that's what kind of what I look like. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I look like that.

I look like aggressive and militaristic. Anybody that spends any time actually going into the principles themselves will realize that it's the opposite of rigid. In fact, keeping an open mind is one of the key components. Humility is one of the key components. Listening to what other people have to say, all these things are key components. You've heard me talk about this stuff for years. So rigid and unguided.

Yielding are actually the opposite of the way I have always led. Yeah. So now I get where it comes from because I also wrote a book called discipline equals freedom. So they take that one thing and extrapolate it out to be an unyielding form. I mean, anybody, well, I was going to say anybody that's ever worked for me. I wouldn't, I don't know if you work for me, but you've definitely worked with me for how long, seven years? Seven years. How, officially?

How rigid and unyielding would you say my leadership style is? Not rigid and not unyielding, I'll tell you. So there you go. So out of the gate, what would you give them for a grade on that? On that statement. Well, it's hard to determine what they actually mean because at face value zero or what do you say, one to ten? I give them a one. I would say one.

And this really just reflects of like what you guys talk about where you're like default aggressive, right? That's literally saying you have a shirt about a default aggressive. So Chad GPT is going to pick that up and be like, well, some people don't like that aggression. They don't like that, whatever. But then the little caveat, which is very important, by the way, it's actually bigger than a caveat. It's like kind of the key component is aggressive isn't towards people. It's towards making things happen. And then you're like, oh, hold, there's only one person.

You've got to hold yourself accountable, not others. So like accountability, right? I'm big on accountability kind of a thing but for myself it's aimed at me exactly right so all right they get at 1.5 so well you give him a 1 we'll just give him a 1 sure okay so they get a 1 on that one next one is lack of nuance willink's messages and advice often emphasize personal responsibility and discipline which some critics argue can overlook systemic or external factors that influence outcomes they argue that his approach it's weird that there's the they right some critics quote They like I've never seen this stuff before, but it captures it.

They argue that his approach may not adequately address the complexities of certain situations or the impact of factors beyond an individual's control. Again, I think all this stuff is is my fault because the surface kind of image or the surface impression that you're going to get from the title of the books, right? Extreme ownership. Discipline equals freedom. leadership strategy and tactics all those books kind of imply this sort of thing so at a surface value I can see where chat GBT is gonna

miss out here because look I've been we've been doing a podcast we have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours talking about the nuance of leadership and how it applies to all these different situations so and that's critical

so lack of nuance what do you give him for a great on this one. Can we give zeros? Yeah, you can give zero. Okay, as it gives zero. This is why, because literally your second book is called the dichotomy of leadership. So it's like, hey, good point. Like, hey, that's a good point. So lack of nuance is literally like against. Someone's like, there's no nuance. That's literally the opposite of what you're saying. Yeah. That's interesting. I mean, I'm just, I just pulled out the book, Dicotomy of Leadership and the inside Flap says, dichotomy provides the crucial insight and awareness necessary for leaders to understand when to lead and when to follow, when to focus and when to detach, when to tighten the reins and when to let the team run, when to aggressively maneuver and when to be prudent.

Like, it's literal nuance. Yeah. Okay. The only, I can't, for me, giving them a zero would mean they, there's no basis in what they're saying. Yeah. I have to give chat GPT at least the credit of understanding what exists. in some way, I'll give them a one.

Okay. Can we round it up to a one? You make a good point with like zero basis. So like basically you got, what is chat GPT hanging on to to result in this answer or what they latch on to? It latch on to. Maybe it is 100% on you kind of a thing, right?

Where it's like. Yes. What's interesting about that is when it talks about, they argue that his approach may not adequately address the complexities of certain situations or the impact of factors beyond an individual's control. So one of the earliest questions I got asked about this topic was someone said, hey, you know, my daughter has terminal cancer. How do I take ownership of that?

And I said, hey, you can't take ownership of that. What you can take ownership of is how you respond to it. And there you go. So this is actually addressing what is in this. And it's in, I've said that a thousand times, written it. So I'll give them a one that they knew that it's a topic. Dude, that's about it. Next up, simplistic solutions.

Some detractors argue that willing solutions and strategies may oversimplify complex problems. That's the point, by the way. While his emphasis on taking ownership and developing discipline, And obviously this thing is everything talks about responsibility and discipline and ownership, which is kind of like me, I guess. Also, it's kind of getting at least a one. Developing discipline can be valuable. Critics contend that they may not address the root causes of issues or consider the broader context in which they arise. So oversimplifying.

Maybe you're just, okay, this is one of those things where, again, wrote a book called Leadership Strategy and Tactics, we talk all the time about the fact that you can't just win the tactical battle that's right in front of you. You need to find out the long-term solution. You need to find out where the problem is coming from. That's where you need to focus your efforts. I'm giving this a one. I'm assuming I understand what Chat-GPT is talking about,

but I actually will give it a, what do you say, one to ten? Yeah, one to ten. I'll give it a five. Five. Okay, how can you give you a five? Because, and this is just hanging on to that idea of oversimplifying it, because sometimes this is less about your philosophy, though, this is more about you as a human, like actually existing human being, where certain things I think you overlook as being, like normal things,

you overlook it. Like, just because you're you, and you're like, oh, dang, you probably never really thought about that, certain things that much. I bet that you're just wrong. Maybe. Maybe that's just my perception. Let me give you the example. The example is, how do I get out of bed in the morning?

Right? This is what you're thinking. How do I get out of bed in the morning? Oh, you want to get out of the bed in the morning? Set your alarm clock when it goes off, get out of bed. Period. That's the right answer, dude. Yeah, I know.

You can say that there's a bunch of little mitigating circumstances, but the fact that the matter is, if you want to get out of bed in the morning, set your alarm, get out of bed in the morning. Yeah. Well, your, your five just went back down to a one. Nope. You're actually wrong. Still at five. In fact, you're actually wrong, right now. Yeah.

Because this is, this is why. So here's the analogy where like, it's like if two people were yelling in your ear, right? Yelling in your ear and you just said, yeah, just ignore them. Where it's like, cool. Yes. In theory, you're in a vacuum. Sure. Someone could find it you could probably ignore them.

But the normal person, the norm, they can't ignore them. Like it's, you can't. You can't ignore. It's too loud. It's too close to your ear. You can feel the warmth of their breath. Like there's so much, so many things that bought that I think anyway. I don't know. I can't read your mind. But there's certain things that affect certain people in certain ways that don't affect you in certain ways. I feel like I'm not human now. I feel like we're doing. False dichotomy. I feel like you just assume a lot of the time, not all the time, but maybe more times than you realize that certain things are literally like normal. This is normal things. for everybody. I think I got asked this on Twitter, maybe. I'm almost positive. I got asked this on Twitter and I responded. The question was like, hey, what do you do when you're, because you know how a lot of times when I'm doing Twitter, I'm traveling. And so someone wrote like, hey, what do you do when you're on a flight and a person behind you keeps kicking your chair or there's a baby behind you screaming and hitting your chair while you're on a flight? What do you do? And I wrote, I wrote, I wrote,

I write three chapters from my next book. Like this is no factor to me. Like literally no factor. So when you talk about people screaming in your ears and what, there's some people that have some kind of a medical trigger that goes off when they get yelled at, no, it's not true.

Like you're not, you're not, that's not true. If Captain Plum can be in a prison cell in Hanoi and, and take ownership of being annoyed with his cellmates, I think you can take a little ownership if someone's annoying you by being loud. Right.

Yeah. And see, now you're going like with these kind of absolutes where you take this extreme situation, like probably one of the most extreme situations ever. Can you compare that to everyday person and be like, look, like what the hell,

you know? But isn't there some validity to that? Yeah. Because if a human being can be locked in a prison cell, in a prisoner of war camp, and decide that he's going to take ownership of things that are really true. bothering him yeah in an area where he's trapped yeah then someone's talking on a plane

or yelling on a plane and you're gonna let that drive you crazy we want to lash out like is that where we're at so well in real life yes because that extreme situation does that's a very extreme situation and in certain situations yeah a baby crying is I'm probably not even hear that in certain situations especially the more extreme the situation so again like you it's comes down to simplifying it like that, where it's like you're taking something like literally a million steps down the road and you're saying,

that's the same as step number one and two. It's different. There's more to it than that is what I'm saying. And I'm not saying it's bad or good. And in fact, in theory, that's how you operate. It's how everyone operates. That's the whole point. There's so much.

That's the mistake. The mistake is saying, instead of saying, oh, I want to write a book, people say, oh yeah, how do I write a book? I say write a thousand words a day. It takes one hour. Find that one hour, a thousand words a day people act like that's the craziest thing they've ever heard

people want to get up in the morning oh you don't you set your long clock go oh people want to you know they're having trouble working out every day cool you know what I do go work out every day yeah and I'm not these are not I think I think you're actually you actually could be wrong here you're over complicating things because that's human nature that's why simplicity is such a powerful tool yes well yes and I agree with that I sure could we sit here and say there's a whole these different mitigating circumstances that will unfold when someone, the alarm clock goes off

and they're up late last night and their circadian rhythms off and they want to wake up their wife and they actually were feeling a little bit sniffly in the, when they, their nose is a little bunged up as they slept and there's like a bunch of things, right? A bunch of reasons and probably you need more rest and, you know, the podcast

told me that sleep was the most important thing for longevity, like all these things, right? There's all these things. Sir, yeah. They can all keep you in bed. Yeah. Pello feels good. Yeah, yeah, I get it.

One blanket feels good. Right. And it's less about any specific thing. What I'm saying is you as a human being, not your, the things you're right about the thing. Like I said, from being like your approach to it is correct. Just a little oversimplified to a level of five out of ten. So I'm saying. So again, this is like you personally.

So you know what? For the sake of brevity, we're going to go with five. We're going to go with your complete. We're going to get full credit. We're getting at five. Look, because everything's super complex. No, no. No, no, no, no, that's not what I'm saying.

That's not what I'm saying at all. See how you're oversimplifying the thing again? So you got, look, do you know what tolerance is, right? Do you believe or do you know or believe? I don't know. Maybe you don't believe this, that different people have different levels of tolerance, like actual tolerance for what? Anything, just anything.

Yeah, different people have different levels of tolerance. Exactly right. So even just that alone would make things clear that it's not just like, hey, no, you just do it. or aid, no, just ignore them. We're like, just the individual nuance of tolerance. It in and of itself makes it not that simple. The approach is the same. Okay.

Like, hey, let's work towards this. Let's work towards that. Here's, I think, where the mistake kind of comes in real life. When people will be like, hey, everyone's different. Hey, it's easier for Jocco because he has high tolerance for this stuff or whatever. Therefore, it's okay for me to slack. It's like that when they comes, when someone comes to that conclusion, And I'm not excluding myself either when they come to that conclusion and use it as like a crutch

There's where the problems well that's definitely problem so I understand the usefulness of your simplistic approach Okay, so that's a good point and we'll give it a five and for those of you that want to believe the echo Charles system of complexity and everything's a harder and makes a lot more difference and everyone's different there's always in jaco's this I'm some kind of a freaking robot Cyborg so that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast so if you want to continue to listen go to jocco underground dot com and subscribe and we're doing this we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control and we're doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast which will remain as is free for all as long as we can keep it that way but we but we are doing this so

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