Jocko Podcast - Jocko Underground: Claustrophobia. How To Get a Strong Mentor. Entrepreneurship Advice. Should a Competition be Equal For All Players?

Episode Date: August 6, 2021

ClaustrophobiaFinding a strong mentor.Food quality vs food quantity.Advice on Starting a business.Should I take a promotion?Equality among competitors?Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is the Jocko underground podcast. Number 27, sitting here with Echo Charles, sometimes known as Echo Charlie. Sure. Hell yeah. So the last one of these that we did, we were talking about this psychological study called the Monster Study, which is really messed up. And also kind of shows the kind of influence you can have over another human being, especially a young, malleable human being. but then we were talking to Hicks and Gracie the other day on the Jockel podcast. And he was talking about how he how he overcame claustrophobia.

He went into the Hickson Vajito. And I know I kind of wanted to say something during the podcast, but it would have sidetracked the podcast. Let's face it, we could have had a 45-minute, maybe one-hour discussion about your experience of claustrophobia. Yeah. So I figured I made a little note next time we get on here. We could talk about your experiences with claustrophobia, which were pretty gnarly.

And then you got over it, kind of, I believe. Yeah. Where you got? What was it like? What did it feel like? You and I used to train. Yeah. And you sometimes would tap out from not a submission, but just from claustrophobia.

Yes. Well Yeah I had a guy You were in my Patoons And he would We'd roll

And I'd roll with everybody So but by the time He would show up Because I'd roll with people Sequentially Hey you come at 515 You come at 530 Whatever

By the time this guy Showed up I would be You know Sweaty And he would He only probably rolled with me

Three times Because after that He just didn't want To do Jiu-Jitsu Yeah But he I remember him Just getting

So angry You know I'm a cross side or I'll mount it or something and he's just like he's tapping just like just get off me Yeah, like walking around the mat angry Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Yes, and it was claustrophobia. Yeah, but he expressed it through anger and and And frustration, but just really just anger. He hated it. Yeah What was your feeling like? Well Funny ask this because I do think about it because it that you don't like when you see on the movies or

or whatever, or you hear about people when they have it really bad, like they can't go in an elevator even, or like in a crowded space or whatever, where it's not, it's not even that, not that at all. It was more the idea that I can't, like, I can't get out of here.

Like, I can't move. I can't get out of this tight, like, space. Yeah, well, this is reminding me of Admiral McGuire's story about being in the torpedo tube. with water in there and a rig and three other guys. 21 inch circle, by the way. I saw a comment,

somebody read that and said, 21 inch circle, that's the size of Echo Charles's arms. Yeah, man. So that's a little tube you're in. Yeah. And so even that, yeah, I'd feel it with the water and stuff.

Yeah, that's crazy. Here's the thing that would always help, though, is if I had something else on my mind, Like if I was doing something, like I've had a job to do or whatever, then it takes it away fully. So the times where I felt it and I really had to like, okay, so Jiu-Jitsu, right? Where it was- Because you really like Jiu-Jitsu. Yes.

You really like Jiu-Jitsu, everything but that. So you kind of had to force yourself to get over that. Yeah. And you, there was only a handful of people that I felt it with, though. And you, because your side mount is freaking, is not only heavy, because you put a bunch of extras on your side control. like your heaviness, you know? Like when you walk around at what, 2.30 or whatever, you don't feel like 230.

Like I've had guys who's 300 pounds that their side control is not that like hard, you know? Just your regular side control. Not the kind of like you're trying to put elbows or nothing like that, just regular resting side control. Whatever. It's like heavy. It was less about the physical feeling.

It was more about the mental feeling. Because if, let's time I'm going with like a real, a new jiu-jitsu guy. And he goes side mountain. He's 270 pounds. I know, like, when it's time, I can get out of here. If I make it a point, like, I'm going to get out, I can get out. So whatever.

But with you, it's not like that. So I can be like, my life can depend on it, and I probably won't get out of here. So, and then not to mention, I'm probably tired or we'll say I'm not full energy. Right. Little short on breath. Little short on breath. Like all that thing, and you put it all together. It's like, oh.

So if I feel like, hey, I'm working on a very specific technique to get out of side control, it won't affect me. It's weird because I'll be trying to work on that technique. But if it fails a couple of times, then I'm just left with the side control, then I'm like, dang, yeah, and then I'll feel it for sure. But it has a lot to do with two. You're kind of over it now, though, don't you? I'm over, yeah, for sure. 100%? I haven't felt it.

I'm probably going to put that to the test in the near future. Yeah. And here's the thing, too. Here's a weird thing. It's also like, so remember there was a time where you thought I wasn't over it or you maybe thought I wasn't. You wanted to quote unquote put it to the test. And then you did this thing. You went side control and you put your feet up on the wall to make it extra heavy.

And I was like, oh, I feel it physically, but I didn't feel it mentally. Okay. Almost like the more. So maybe you're cured. I felt like the more you're trying to do it to me and I know you're trying to make me claustrophob, the less it works. I feel like if you're just like, if you're just like, okay, you got the position and let me just hold it here to set up this or set up that. I'm like, man, there's no escape on this thing. Because you're dedicated to the side control for the,

for the personal purpose of having the side control for a reason. And then I have no choice because you're going to hold it. You know what it might be though? When you put your feet up on the wall and you're like, yeah, go fucking side control, side control, side mount. No, you got determined. Yeah, like it's like a me against you now. So I get to, yeah, it's like I have another job to do.

But yeah, I don't have it anymore. I don't think. I feel like what you have to do. the part that I think is psychological is if you start thinking about it if you start thinking about the fact that you can't move there's some parable about

this village and there's a pot in the village and if you can stir the pot through the night without thinking about and they tell you what you're not allowed to think about then through the night it'll turn to gold and so they tell whatever the thing is they're not supposed to be don't think about

the waterfall if you think about the waterfall it won't turn into gold And so everyone goes out there, they're stirring the pot, and they think about the waterfall, and they don't get the gold. But then someone shows up and they say, hey, just stir this pot all night. They don't tell them what to not think about. And then they just go in there and they start, they're not paying attention to it. Just anything like, anything is like that, right?

If you don't notice someone, if someone says, hey, is that noise bothering you? I wasn't even now I can hear it. Now I couldn't hear it before. Now it's bothering me. Yeah. So you've got to learn how to shut that part of your brain. off and just fixate on other things not get focused on the fact that you can't move your arms yeah or that there's a waterfall yeah he Hicksing brought up a good point though which

I was impressed that he had this mindset so early where he was like he felt a cluster phobia from the headlock and he yeah and then he goes and like works on it yeah in this like crazy way at however 12 years old or something like that I'm like dang like 12 usually at 12 you're like I'm never doing that again I'm gonna avoid the headlock next time, you know? Yeah, for sure. But I feel like when you're, when I am more like in shape and breathing helps and stuff like that, and then the more you know, the more I roll with you, the more, yeah, the less

claustophobia. I'm gonna feel. Right on. I just wanted to bring that up. Yes. Let's roll. What do you got for Q&A? Juna.

Got some interesting Q&A. Hey, Jocco and Echo. I'm a huge fan of the podcast. I appreciate everything that you guys are doing. Since listening, I went from being a high school dropout. to maintaining a 4.0 GPA in all my college classes while working full time and training at least three days a week in jiu-jitsu. I have dreams to pursue the military once I complete my associate's degree and I cannot thank you enough for the motivation and mentorship that I've received from the

podcast. With all that being said, I feel I'm lacking a strong male figure in my life. I'm a married 21-year-old female. My biological father isn't in the picture. My husband is paramilitary and struggles deeply with depression. He's very mentally unstable and struggles with wanting to end his life often. I feel like I don't have a strong male figure to lean on when I need help or advice. I truly want what Dakota Meyer spoke of having with you.

Someone I know I can call and trust. My question is, how do I find a fatherly figure as an adult? Is this something I should let happen organically through Jiu-Jitsu or in the future through the military? do you think this is something that I should just forget and move on from instead if it's something I should pursue actively what does that look like tangibly thank you for all you do awesome so here's what I think of mentors and I have talked about this before you've got to kind of build

your own mentors in life and the chances that you have someone that swoops down to mentor you the chances of that happening in a really overt way. Hi, Jocko, how are you doing? I want to be your mentor. Well, great. You have experience and the things that I've always wanted to do, so you're going to be a good mentor. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast.

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