Jocko Podcast - Jocko Underground: Developing Prejudice Against Others and Loyalty Toward Your Own. Eagles VS Rattlers.

Episode Date: June 26, 2023

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This is the Jocko Underground podcast number 93 sitting here with Echo Charles. This is me, Jocko Willink. And we're going to talk about the Eagles versus the Rattlers. You know anything about this? No, you don't. This was the culmination of an experiment that was a psychological and a sociological experiment that was conducted in the late 1950s, early 1960s. A guy named Musifur Sharif, he was a Turkish-American social psychologist. He was alive from 1906 to 1988 and back in the day you could do some wild stuff with

experiments right and actually I don't know we can discuss this one wasn't I actually think this one was kind of okay I might be wrong but and also it's an experiment that you can see just play out all the time so they took 22 11 year old boys and they brought them to a camp they're all white kids with similar middle-class backgrounds so they're pretty similar kids 22 of them they split them into two different teams at first they didn't even know each other they didn't they weren't together at first and they spent a few days just doing activity separate they didn't know the other team existed so they just show up at camp they have 11 guys total on a team

And they start doing like hiking together. They're swimming. They're playing games like fun, not competitive against each other games, but like, oh, let's try and do this. Let's swim over there. Let's go for a hike. Just kind of doing things together. And they just did these cooperative events as a team.

And they started to like form bonds and become friends. This was like a four or five day period. And they ended up each of them independently coming up with names for their little team. One of them called themselves the eagles. The other ones called themselves the ratlers. And then they took they made shirts. They made flags. They like got kind of fired up. They were part of this crew. And then they took the two groups and they brought them together. And they started to put them in competitive games and situations. And they started to develop a prejudice. against each other and they would do things they would like have a picnic they

would they would do a combined picnic but one of the teams they would set it up so one of the teams would get there early and eat all the food from the other team and then that kind of escalated the Eagles eventually burned the Rattlers flag the Rattlers invaded the Eagles cabins and stole their gear and vandalized their stuff and eventually the researchers had to physically separate the two groups then they put them into a two-day cooling off period where they just got to relax they didn't they didn't create any more hostilities between them and then they had them during that time right words to describe what the other group was

like and you can imagine know the other group is conniving and you know evil and and all that kind of stuff. And my group is good and we're upstanding. And then what they did was they brought them together. And now they had them work, and this was really interesting to me. They had them work on projects together where in order to be successful they had to work together.

And it was mutually beneficial to both teams. And when they did that, that they found was the best, way to unify both groups together and unify both groups together and reduce conflict a superordinate goal this is interesting this is what I've been calling for the last two years I think is climbing the ladder of alignment what do we actually what are we aligned on and with the other interesting thing is when they just had them hang out together for instance they'd say hey you guys are going to

to watch a movie together tonight or you're going to come and eat together tonight. It didn't help. Didn't help unify the teams at all. They would still, they'd argue about what movie to watch. They'd argue about like how much food. But as soon as they had a superordinate goal to that they needed to work together on, that's what bonded the group. So this out of this came the realistic group conflict theory.

It's basically that groups will get competitive over resources. All that stuff is real obvious This is one of those things we're like You know, you think to yourself Yeah, no kidding, you had to do an experiment Even this whole thing Oh, you had to do an experiment To figure this out

This is so obvious This is like every group of kids That hangs out together And there's another group of kids At the other end of the street And they hang out together And if there's scarce resources They're gonna fight.

That's the way it is. And I just thought it was an interesting a real clear example of the fact that we're tribal animals. And if you're not paying attention, you can become part of a tribe. You don't even recognize that you're part of this tribe, and you start thinking things that you have no actual reason for thinking, but you're thinking of them.

And if you're not paying attention, that can happen. So my overall advice is pay attention. You don't want to be an eagle. You don't want to be a rattler. They have no fundamental reason for this anger and prejudice against each other. But then it escalates from little things. You know, it's just a little thing. Oh, you ate some of our cake.

Oh, well, then we're going to take your cake and we're going to smash it. Okay, then we're going to burn your flag. Okay, we're going to raid your cabins. You let that go? If the researchers let that go, who knows, man? Maybe someone's getting killed. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

That's basically what gangs do. Yeah. That is. So be careful. Yeah, big time. And obviously, you know, you explaining that whole thing, you can think of all the different examples, varying levels of it, where the first one comes to mind, obviously, is the sports fans, right?

They always get into the fights and, you know, and the thing, 100% based on a sports team that they have probably never played for, never going to play for, probably don't even know personally, you know, they don't have a personal relationship with not one single member of the whole company, not even just the team, like no, nothing, never met them in real life, whatever, and they're still that unified over the fact that they play in that city, you know? And you're right, it stems from like that one commonality, right? That one like a common interest in whatever way. And then

from there it just grows, almost like you forget the common interest, you just have that feeling, and then you just move forward almost automatically in a way. So it's like, okay, someone who opposes the San Diego Chargers. I know they're not in San Diego anymore, but my psychological example is San Diego Chargers. So anyone who opposes the San Diego Chargers, they're kind of like the enemy in this little seed in my mind. So anything that kind of confirms that just exacerbates it more and more and more.

Same thing about your presidential candidate of choice. You know, oh, that freaking Trump supporter or that whatever supporter, you know, kind of a thing. And I'm not that. So they're on the other team and then freaking hostility from there. Hostility. You know, when JP was on the podcast, and we were talking about getting a platoon to break when we were running training,

all you have to do is create some little bit of, little kernel of animosity between the troops, and they just self-destruct, bro. And that's what's going on. That's what's going on in America. You know, it's like, oh, what you should be thinking is you should be thinking, hey, if I'm mad at Echo because he believes this thing,

that's actually, no matter what, where I'm at, that's bad for, that's bad for everybody. It's bad for America. Yeah. If I'm mad at you because you have a different political belief than me, and instead of me going, oh, yeah, well, you know, it's America, you can, he can support his ideas and I'll support my ideas and we'll see which one goes, goes further. And I'll continue to work against what he's think, but I'm not mad at him.

Yeah. But the minute I'm like, no, I actually hate Echo. Yeah. Now, because that colonel grows, man. Yeah. It grows big time. And now actually, I don't just hate the fact that you don't like this one political thing that I like. Now I hate everything about you.

Yeah. Now I hate every political belief you have. It's been weird to watch the way things have flipped upside down in the political spectrum. Where like, for instance, the Democrats pretty much being like pro big pharma now is kind of crazy. Yeah. And then being basically pro-war. in Ukraine when you know when you would traditionally think of where who's supporting the big companies oh it's the Republicans yeah or who's supporting war oh it's the Republicans now you have

a literal flip of that yeah yeah and it doesn't surprise me given this one thing that I witnessed from some insider so I'm not going to name nobody's name but so this one insider had a meeting with someone, another insider. And this meeting had another person involved in it who said, we're going to block this and it was like some bill or some thing, right? We're going to block this bill, even though it's a good bill. And in fact, we all talked about passing this bill like two years ago, but since they kind of formulated it in or finalized it or whatever,

I don't know the terms. But since they basically announced it first, like it's their bill, they want to block it, even though it's like literally the one that they had. You know, so it's a good bill. Everyone agrees on it. But since they did it, it was the other political side. Since they're bringing it out, we're going to block it. That's how deep it goes.

Like the whole country at risk, by the way. Oh, yeah. So that kind of stuff. Freaking idiots. Oh, yeah. These freaking idiots. That's what they are. They're a bunch of freaking idiots.

They're donkeys. I've mentioned this a few times. And there you go. That's a little taste of what we are doing on. the Jocko Underground podcast. And if you want to listen to the whole thing, go to jaco underground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this.

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