Jocko Podcast - Jocko Underground: How Do You Measure Up Against You In Your Prime?

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

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This is the Jocko Underground podcast number 163 sitting here with Echo Charles, getting ready to provide some courses of action for various scenarios presented and also answer some questions. Let's get into it. It's true. Yeah, the principles of a lot of these questions, like if you take the principle of it, you can apply it to like your own scenario. Of course.

That's kind of the deal. Of course. You know what I'm saying? That's what I'm doing. It's a good, good functional use. Because let's face a lot of these questions. They don't directly apply one-to-one to me, but kind of the fundamental principle a lot of time, I'm like, you get to hear from a different angle, little reinforcement. 100% check.

All right, first question. I'm currently a firefighter turning 30 this year. I'm lucky enough to be in a very physically demanding specialty surrounded by guys who are in great shape. I'm the oldest one in my rank, but have no issue keeping up and leading our PT sessions. My question is this. Can you compare yourself today to your 20 to 25 year old prime? If you had to do a PST, how would your times and numbers compare then and now? Obviously, work output variables are impacted by age, but how have you been able to keep performance high through aging?

Thanks for all the lessons you've imparted. You guys impact so many lives. Well, first, thanks for your service as a firefighter. That's awesome. It sounds like you're getting after it still after a long time. Turning 30 this year. Oh, maybe not that long of the time. So, PST, which is a physical screening test, and we used to take PSTs.

And I went through a couple different iterations of PSTs when I first joined the day. Back in the day, we actually took the Navy, like the regular Navy, PST, which was very easy for us. And then they made, then there was a couple different iterations that I did over the years. And they were all, I can't even, it's too many to remember. Let me put it that way. But that being, and to remember what the specifics, the standards were, I definitely can't remember. But this much I do know that if I, if I had to take a PST, I would train for it. And I would be kind of like in the same ballpark as I was then.

My younger self would need less time to prep for it But and the main thing the main reason is because running and swimming Because swimming was part of the PSD was part of the CLP. It wasn't part of the Navy PSD, but the CEL PSD was swimming You had swimming so and surfing and swimming are not the same thing They're similar, but but it's even more differentiated in the seal teams because swimming in the seal teams is with fins So you have fins on and so it's it's very different than surfing muscles because it's more leg muscles and Finning is different than running you're not like oh I'm a good runner so I can fin no it doesn't work like that So it would take me some time to get back in the game for those two things and the rest of them were like pull-ups push-ups and sit-ups which no factor

So I think it would be somewhat similar in Jiu-Jitsu just FYI in case anyone's wondering I would kick my ass and when I was 20 to 25 years old I would just annihilate my 20 to 25 year old self total destruction but you know for the spirit of the question here you know I would say the biggest deficit between being 20 and by the way 20 to 25 I don't think is prime. Is that prime for you? For what? For like physical strength, agility. I guess what was the oldest you played college football?

20 or 21. Yeah, so you didn't, you weren't your prime at 20 or 21. They say, I mean, prime is, it depends. Because from what I understand, like, if you have like what's called muscle maturity, they say about 30, between 30 and 32 is kind of the prime for muscle, just muscle. Like, I think it's like strength in size or whatever. but athleticism I don't know

but it feels like a 21, 22, 23, 23, 24 years old scenario maybe even 25 after that from what I understand I don't know but I was doing a lot of different

or much different things after the age of 21 yeah the biggest deficit I would say like would be the dynamic lifts right like big cleans big snatches, big cleaning jerks.

And there's also another deficit, which is when I was growing up, we didn't do those. Like in high school, we didn't do, like every kid now does cleans and snatches and cleaning jerks. Like that's every kid now. Every kid Olympic lifts now. When I was a kid in the 80s and the 70s,

we didn't do that. So I don't have the really good muscle member. You know how if you did something to your kid, you can just do it forever. I don't have that. And so then, And as you get older, you're like, well, do I really need to max out? Or do I really even need to go max weight for a clean for?

And you start saying, what's the risk versus reward? Now listen, lift heavy for sure. But you're not going to lift as heavy because the risk versus reward is not, is not, doesn't make sense. So that stuff would be the biggest deficit for me. but the running, swimming, pull up pushups, I think I'd be fine. The other thing, so I have, the biggest thing I've noticed about getting older, and we've talked about this before, is I need more warm up now.

I used to go to Jiu-Jitsu and just get on the mat and start training. Slap hands, I wouldn't even jog around the mat one time. I would walk out, slap hands with Dean Lister, and start fighting him. you know what I mean and now I need like one five minute round of movement and rolling and then halfway through I'll go live my second round but I'm still like not still quite there and then in the middle of my third round I feel good and then between three and eight rounds I'm like that's where my kind of optimum then you're getting tired or whatever right so that's that I definitely need more warm up in that my shoulders are less mobile than they used to be and I'm I

work on it, you know, I stretch every day. I even insert stretches, like some very specific shoulder stretches into my workouts. So I have one where I put my shoulders up behind my back and I have one where I pull them up over my head. And I do that very regularly in my workouts. They're part of my workouts to try and keep, you know, try and make progress. But thankfully, I will say my shoulders were injured. I've had injured shoulders before. And right now they're not injured, which is, you know,

knock on wood, we'll take it. So need some more warm up. I don't go as heavy as I used to on some of these dynamic type lifts. So that's probably where you'd go. Oh, you're, you're weak now.

You're getting old. But I'll kick your ass, old self. You know what I mean? So that's, That's kind of where. And I go, and another, here's another thing is like, I go through, as I've explained many times, I go through various cycles of working out where, you know, at some point I'm on

the squat train. Then I get, you know, kind of reach the, you know, I'm not, I'm not taking it to the peak. Yeah. Because the peak takes, removes, first of all, removes other aspects of fitness. Yeah. And it starts increasing. risk with with very little benefit. I heard John Donnerher talking the other day and he's like, I can't tell the difference

between someone that can bench 300 pounds on the mat and someone can bench 400 pounds on the mat. Now, in the world of weightlifting, the difference between 300 and 400 is, is huge. They're different people. They're different people. But, and I'll tell you the same thing. I mean, you know, very different people that have different, you know, like, you can look a one dude and be like, this guy can probably bench 185.

Yeah. And this other guy can probably bench probably 350. Yeah. And yet the person with the 185 can kick your ass. So and feel strong. Yeah. So I, I go through like various cycles of fitness where I'm, you know, doing this. I'm doing that.

I'm chasing this. I'm chasing that. And usually in the summertime is when I kind of, you know, to start chasing the the endurance type stuff because I'm getting ready to hunt in the mountains and you'd have good endurance so so if they hit me with this question and I was in it was like late August early September I'd probably be like all right let's go although the swimming again the swimming you'd have you got to go rebuild some of those muscles I have like you have some you know you swim so much in the seal teams that I would have some muscle memory you know that would go I could

get it back faster than taking someone that never had 20 years in the pains. But yeah, that's where I'm at. So the running, you think, pretty solid. Yeah. You know, give you a little bit to get back on the horse a little bit. Give me some time. Yeah. Because I run regularly, but there's a difference between running.

And actually, I do jogging and I sprint, which is a good combo. Good to go. but if you're going to start doing like a three mile run which is what the PST was in the seal times that that's like a specific all right cool got to get in shape for that right so yeah yeah be all be all good and that's to meet my old times yeah so I wonder I don't know what I mean depends on the era

and obviously I didn't have any kind of PST scenario going but if I remember football numbers those are way different that's not real life numbers you know 40 time like who's gonna run a 40 outside of sports, you know. But that's actually very recommended. What's all just sprinting in general? Sprinting in general, dude. Sprinting in general, dude.

But sprinting falls. There's some weird, do you heard that thing that most people over the age of, most people never sprint again after the age of like 24 or something like that. That makes sense to me completely. Which is horrible for human beings. Yeah. Not sprint anymore. Well, there's a lot of things that are kind of that could be.

Then again, that's a whole philosophical thing, you know. I mean, there's a lot of things that that we don't do anymore. which could be looked at is like, oh man, that's too bad, but it's kind of like, well, it's not as useful now. Like what? Sprinting is not as useful now.

Okay, but give me one more example. And when you say sprinting is not as useful because you're not playing football or basketball or whatever. Well, you know how like, or you know how they say, okay, we're less physical nowadays, right? Because of technology or whatever.

But it's kind of, it's a two-way street where it's like, yeah, because technology doesn't require us to be as physical anymore. No, that's, I think that that's bad too, but at the end of the day, it's only in regards to health. But as far as like sprinting, if you just consider this approach, I'm not saying it's good, bad, not in between, I'm not making a judgment. I am saying if you look at it like this where it's like, yeah, isn't that bad that people don't sprint after the age it will say 24?

It's like, well, good or bad, I guess if you don't need to sprint, does that impact your health? Yes. I guess, I mean, and then in what way you have to think? Well, maybe, yeah, when you do have to sprint away from the, you know, coyote chasing you can hurt yourself. No, but sprinting is really good for your health in a bunch of different ways as well. Yeah, you'd have to consider in what specific ways? I'm not saying that it is or not. I'm just saying, okay, in what ways?

And then I'm saying, okay, so if I don't sprint, am I more at risk for what? So I understand, yeah, hurting yourself. You've got to run away from something. Yeah. But I don't know if, is it really? reasonable to say and I don't know the answer to this so bear with me but will you say okay does lack of sprinting contribute to all cause mortality 100% I'm gonna I'm you said I'm not gonna go up I'm saying like it is it does we can go look at the facts does it contribute to heart disease risk I bet ah well I don't know well and then again I don't know I truly I'm telling you I I'm saying yes so you think I'm kind of trying to justify it since I don't really sprint I'm just trying to like make up for it. Oh, you don't sprint?

I thought you sprinted in your MacColns sometimes. Yes, sometimes, but it's not part of the routine. Okay. I do hills, yeah, hill sprints, hell, yeah. Okay, well, then you're sprinting, bro. What are you talking about? I'm not sprinting, but... I will say this.

I have not sprinted probably for like four months. Okay, four months. That's like the age... We said 24. Now you're sprinting at... How old are you? 47. 46 and five months you've sprinted.

That's still pretty good. I'm... I'm rarely talking about myself unless I say myself. I'm saying just saying in general. But hey, cool, man. I dig it. My numbers would be pretty close to aside from a few things. The running stuff, I'm out.

I'm out of that compared to how the number of my running numbers back in the head. Well, that's why for you, you were training like, like you said, a 40. Yeah. Right? That's a very specific thing. And you're doing it very regularly focused on that thing. So that is a little excerpt of what. we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast.

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