Jocko Podcast - Jocko Underground: How To End Drama When You're Caught In The Middle.

Episode Date: January 12, 2026

>Join Jocko Underground< How to end drama when you're caught in the middle. How to get out of a massive slump from injuries from life. What to do if your peers are progressing faster than you. Walking the line between taking the responsibility and allowing others to. Got on the path with great results and now my ego may be out of control. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is the Jocko Underground podcast number 196 sitting here with Echo Charles. We have some questions from you all. We will try and provide guidance, recommendations, answers, or at least courses of actions for you to take. We've already been sitting in this room for one hour, not recording, but just listening to Echo, talk about the world. That was your assessment. Okay. All right. If that was the assessment, that was the assessment.

I feel very caught up on AI now. I thought we got to the bottom. have a lot of things. Okay. There are many levels of courses of actions to be taken and many people who need courses of actions. You being one of them. Yeah, I'm not, I'm no better.

I'm not above it. You and me both. All right. Well, there you go. All right. And here we go. Let's get to it. Okay, first question.

I'm looking for guidance on how to handle a sensitive family situation appropriately without destroying relationships. My wife's parents have long had marital conflict and issues. About a decade ago, her mother had an affair. Her dad chose to forgive her and stay in the marriage, but it's obvious the issue was never fully resolved and seems to be recurring issue today. Frustratingly, both parents would frequently put my wife

in the middle of their disputes and share highly inappropriate details about their relationship, including sexual and personal issues. My wife and I are in our 30s. Her parents are hitting their 60s. She always tells me how, uncomfortable and upsetting this is, but it's too kind to firmly set boundaries herself. I believe it's very unhealthy for her to be put in the middle all the time.

And I'm unsure whether my role should be to support her in setting boundaries or to directly address her parents myself in a difficult but necessary conversation. What is the most effective and disciplined way to handle this situation while protecting my wife and maintaining respect? Yeah, it's just an unfortunate situation and you know, it's just so weird like who's doing this? What is wrong with people? Honestly, it seems like it might be a good idea that if you could be the one that like addresses the parents. I don't necessarily think that that would land very well. I think they'd give you the, you know, she's our daughter and this is our family and that kind of thing. I think she's going to have to be the one. that stops this from occurring herself. And I think she could start, if she's a little bit, what's the word?

If she's a little bit cautious about, or nervous about setting boundaries, like hard boundaries, I think she could probably set boundaries without setting boundaries, meaning don't give them what they want. you know when they start saying this stuff like hey I'm this not my business my wife is a pro at this by the way yeah because my wife is none doesn't like the drama yeah right the drama and you know someone gives a little bit of drama she'll

sort of you know okay and just not talk about it anymore but if someone's like actively trying to engage her in drama then she'll she'll say something like oh this is nothing to do with me she'll like literally say that um she'll still say I don't want to be involved in what you're talking about she just says that to him and so like I said if someone throws a little drama her way no big deal she'll just you know be pleasant you know okay well that's you she will kind of won't respond what like a reflect and diminish kind of a even even less even even less of a reflect just like uh you know if you tell me that you got some drama at your

house and I don't want to be involved in it just like oh You know, did you see the football game last night? You know what I mean? Just like, hey. So we'd call that pleasant gray rocking. Gray rocking. Pleasant gray rocking? What did you hear that from?

Well, gray rocking is what, I mean, the prescriptive behavior you should demonstrate when a narcissist is trying to manipulate you in one way or another. So what do you do? You just, it's kind of like a reflect and diminish, but it's more of just a diminish. Like you don't give them anything really, you know, but you don't confront them. You don't anti, you're not like budding heads. Nothing. You're just like how you said.

Like, oh, yeah, yeah, right on. Okay. Yeah. And then you kind of change the subject. Just we're not talking about this. So I think that this dude's wife could definitely do that, you know, what did you say? Gray rocking.

Gray rocking. I think she could definitely gray rock of, you know, oh, you won't believe what your dad did last night in the bedroom. Be like, I don't really know, need to know about that. Can you pass me the, you know, mayonnaise for this chicken casserole that we're making you know what I'm saying like like we're not doing this because even when you sit and listen to someone and you become their sounding board like i don't think i don't think the daughter even deserves that right she doesn't even deserve that dude

leave this poor girl alone uh so then i think she should try that try gray rocking or black rocking gray so try gray rock try gray rocking and just not giving responses and not engaging in it and just dismissing like why I'm not talking about that like you know and to your point like not like I'm going to walk away when you say that and show you that I'm mad about it but just like you wouldn't believe what your dad did last night in the bedroom just be like hey can you pass I don't really know about I don't want to know about that hey can you pass me the chicken salad right like just not engage in this stuff not totally make them even more mad but you know Cause in what you get?

You don't care. You know what I mean? So you just got to kind of, you got to find that little fine line. So I think her, I guess it's just really just diminish. Like it's like no reflect. It's sort of absorb and diminish.

I guess is what we'd say here. Absorb and diminish. Just like take it and be like, oh, that's weird. Hey, can you pass me the chicken salad? Like just let's do that.

And then again, like my wife has that one escalation point where if someone really is trying to drag her into it, she'd be like, I don't want to be involved in this. She will literally, I've heard my wife say that to, you know, other people. Just like, hey, this is nothing to do with me. And I don't want to be involved in it.

Just straight up. Yeah. And it's a pretty good, it's a good boundary. But there's also, I think there's enough of a, of a preamble with the gray rocking. It's like the preamble of gray. Like if you say something to me and I'm kind of like, hey, dude, can you pass me the chicken salad? And then you're like, hey, but no, this is really what happened. I go, hey, can you?

I need some more pepper on my chicken salad. Can you pass me that too? And you're like, no, this is really what happened. I go, hey, look, dude, this is not my bit. See, I kind of gave you a preamble of like, hey, dude, this is not my thing. And now you crossed it. You pushed me. You pushed me.

And finally, I go, hey, dude, it's like when someone's going to fight you and they're like, they're staring at you. And you look at them. What are you looking at? And you're like, hey, man, I'm not looking at anything. And then they go, oh, you think you're a tough guy? You think I'm nothing? And you're like, hey, listen, dude, I'm not looking at, have any problems.

I'm just here chilling out. I got no beef with you. Carry on. And the guy's like, oh, you think you can just carry on when you're staring at me like that? Hey, listen, bro. Now, like, you can see where I'm going with this. Eventually, the dude's going to, like, he's getting, he's getting like a two piece or a three piece. You know what I'm like?

But he kind of knew, he kind of had it coming. Right. Right. Yeah. And I think that's okay. So I think if that's what she does, she kind of sets these, these types of boundaries, number one, by not responding. It's kind of like when you train a dog, to be honest with you, like when your dog is doing something that they want attention,

you just cannot give them attention. And that's what both of the mom and dad in this situation, they just want attention. They want to get that little thing going, and your wife cannot give it to them. She has to absorb and just diminish and just change the subject. And eventually, if they keep trying to drag her into it, role play with her role play with her some methods for breaking contact you know this is none of my

business I don't want to get involved in this hey this is for you to figure out not me hey I'm you're a 60 year old married woman or husband this is your business not mine I have my own family I have my own life this is not my this is not my deal or whatever you know role play and then then she's just got to kind of hold the line and just not broker and the thing is these parents are so manipulative. Like they like you said they're narcissistic weirdos that are trying to get the daughter involved in this freaking crap. That's crazy. Can you imagine like I wouldn't want my kids to know if I gotten an argument with my wife about you know what we were going to have for dinner much less like what's happening in the bedroom like this is crazy talk. These are weird people. Matter of fact,

this husband should be like let's I would I would be trying to create a little bit of like family distancing like how often are they around maybe we could create a little bit of like family distancing because this is weird stuff like you're talking about sexual stuff with your parents that seems to me very strange um so I think a little bit of role playing a little bit of absorb and diminish gray rocking maybe you can look that up and see what that maybe you can get some more details on that and then she's got to hold the line and um Keep supporting. Keep supporting her. I don't think you, I don't think this will escalate to a point where you have to get involved unless it starts to create massive negative impact on you and your family, which it shouldn't because I would break contact before. I'd be like, hey, no, we're not going over for dinner that night. Nick, oh, we're actually busy. Sorry, we can't make it. Oh, you know, we actually, you know, I would, I would create a nice, gentle amount of distance between this kind of weird, crazy behavior. I don't want my kids around it. I don't want to be around. I don't want my wife around it. Family's family cool we'll stick by our families, but we don't have our families drag us down into weird scenarios

Not happening Yeah, I agree the the two that I've been in the situation in a way Or you know you're kind of in between you know of two people yeah who Who sort of made up but they sell their issues, you know So I've been in the situation And what I found was a being consistent with the gray rock Mettin Because if you're not and someone feels like oh wait I can kind of get a

what I need sometimes. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like a little bit of a thing. Variable reward. Variable reward. Exactly. Right. So that might be.

And then another little tactic, which I use very effective, is the look on the bright side tactic. So if they're like, oh yeah, can you believe, you know, can you believe your husband or your dad did this to me, right? Let's say the mom was saying this. You'd be like, yeah, I know. But yeah, like, you forgave them, you know. So that's such a good thing that you did, you know, how you forgave them.

And, you know, you guys stuck it and chose to, you know, know, make the relationship work. You keep and you keep that consistent, and they'll realize they won't get what they want. That's the big thing is you're training like a dog. You're training these two people that they're not going to get the treat from you. And the treat that they're looking for is just in interaction. It's sympathy.

It's even anger. Like, I can't believe it. It's all those things. And you're not going to, you just have to. That is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jocco underground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control.

And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast, which will remain as is free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections better communications with us and to do that we are we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us so thank you it's jaco underground dot com it costs eight dollars and eighteen cents a month and if you can't afford

to support us we can still support you just email assistance at jocco underground and we'll get you taken care of until then we will see you mobilized underground