Jocko Podcast - Jocko Underground: How To Exact Revenge On An Enemy

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

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This is the Junko Underground Podcast, number 115, sitting here with Echo Charles. And last week, the topic of betrayal came up. Yeah. And so we talked about betrayal, which we kind of discussed the fact that it was a strong word, right? It's a very strong word. Usually things wouldn't quite qualify as betrayal, even though we might throw the word out there. It does happen, though. Yeah.

And that got me to thinking about revenge. because there's times where we're wronged and we need revenge vengeance yeah very popular very popular sentiment that people have that's why there's a lot of movies about it

yeah death wish yeah yeah Charles Bronson did ever tell you had a band called Bronson's children yes you did so believe me death wish was all up in the mix have you ever the original death wish is interesting because he kind of doesn't

he like throws up when he gets done killing people it's a much it's a much more kind of nuanced movie by the time you get to death wish for it he just moan people down it's all good but it's a revenge film unforgiven you ever seen Unforgiven yeah I did I mean yeah back in the day great movie great movie but it's a revenge movie

part of it's not it turns into a revenge movie turns into like the last whatever it is 20 minutes just it may even be 15 minutes the whole movie is just boom it's revenge and that's what we're that's we're there for in the end wait does it is it always a revenge no not really so something happened and then he wants vengeance kind of thing during the movie yeah okay they kill his friend they kill his friend and then he kills them like later in the movie

yeah but it's late in the movie yeah that's not the plot of the whole movie it's not like in the beginning of and now we do vengeance yeah Terminalist. Have you seen Terminalist? With written by Jack Carr? Yeah, yeah. I had no Terminalist. That, Chris Prats in it.

Yeah, you see. James Reese. Yeah, hell yeah. That's just big revenge, kind of in a way, right? Oh, yeah. Like, hey, you killed my family? I'm killing everyone. Yeah.

And we get it, right? These movies are cool. We relate to the sentiment of the movie. We feel good about it. Why? Because that's what we think we would do. And here's the bottom line. You end up in jail, right?

I mean, all those movies, you end up in jail. Maybe you get away with it and unforgiven because it's taking place back in the day. But Death Wish, eventually you're going to jail. James Reese, I suspend. What is it? How do they say? Suspend disbelief?

What is it? You got to suspend disbelief because in the show, he's just like in Coronado, California, just killing 20. 10 people or whatever, commanders from the military. And then rolling, like, he's on the run a little bit. But, you know, there was a manhunt a while ago. Some Navy guy went on a little bit of a killing spree.

And they caught him real quick. Look, James Reese, is he more skilled? Yes, he is. Sure. But what I'm saying is you're going to end up in jail. Which could be worth it, right? Somebody does something someone harms your family in an irrevocable way cool it's on everyone does I get that That's that's a real thing but normally like normal everyday life that's not what we're getting revenge for we need to get revenge for lesser crimes

Or infractions right yeah it's sort of like the same thing betrayal Did well what is it really you know what I mean so I think we can we need to think about what we're talking about. If you're going to go full revenge because someone did something irrevocable to your family, cool, I get it. You want to go full James Reese and just start get your murder on?

Cool. Generally speaking, it's not going to be a great move for normal life, right? When we're trying to get revenge on a normal sort of infraction in life, might even be significant, but not illegal. You know what I mean?

So there's a bunch of the Ellie Wiesel, Vizel, the Holocaust survivor, author he wrote the book Knight. He said the opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference, which is a very critical thing. First person that said that to me was Elgin James. The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference, meaning I just don't care. which is so when you get dumped when you're 15 and you're like I hate her no if you really want to go the opposite of love go to indifference I don't care about you that's where you want to be um Marcus Aurelius said the best revenge is to not be like your enemy it's another good one and then finally Frank Sinatra and we'll kind of hold

this theme the best revenge is massive success this is a good call I agree with all those ideas like those general concepts the best thing you can do when someone wrongs you is move on forget about them and go win that's truly the best revenge that you can get go kick ass if you do that here's the thing let's say you did something that was wrong to me and then I just went and kicked ass and you and I was massively successful with whatever I was doing and then you saw me six years later

and you're kind of the same you and I'm this massively successful that would be the harshest thing I could do to you now if I was to like you do something against me and so I go and freaking cut the tires of your car and I freaking smash the windows and I piss in your gas tank and like and then I get arrested

but I got you because you were late for like Think of how stupid that is. Yeah. You actually win, by the way, when I'm in jail now where I have a big fine and you're suing me, like, you win. Yeah. Especially when I'm in court and they're like,

so you urinated in his gas tank and I'm like, well. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, but he did this thing to me. It's like, no, you were immature. You were stupid. So getting caught up in revenge means you get caught up in some kind of envy

slash jealousy slash anger which are all a bunch of emotions that you're wasting that are going to drive you to make bad decisions ego based decisions and they all give you echo trolls if I'm doing these if I'm angry at you

if I'm mad at you if I'm jealous of you all those things give you the upper hand they give you the W they give you the win the fact that I'm walking around all mad you won. Why am I going to allow you to have, what is it, live in my head rent free? You know what I'm saying?

Sure. Live in my head rent free, which is what's going to happen. If I can't forgive you, forgive and forget. And I know that's a big ask. Forgive and forget. It's actually, here's the good thing. When I forgive it when you do something wrong to me you wronged me You stole my girlfriend you

Borrowed money from me and some investment thing you didn't pay me back You like those kind of things this kind of thing we're talking about right? Yeah, it's not illegal for you to steal my girlfriend It's not if you you know Presented an investment to me and I invested money and then you just didn't pay me back because everything went to shit and that's not illegal I mean sure it could be some form but I'm saying in this case not illegal um what else could you do to me that would require some type that would make that would fuel me for revenge that's not illegal that's not illegal yeah the girlfriend thing oh you you oh talking trash me in your back

I told you about I told you about this job offer I told you about this job Ham and apply for this job and then you went applied for the job and you got it mm-hmm get you back yeah not illegal but it's definitely enough. I mean, it's a life-changing situation, especially you got the job that I wanted. You're getting, you know, $82,000 a year. I thought I could have had that job.

So those kind of things, the worst thing I can do is be all caught up in it and let you live in my freaking mental headspace forever. The best thing to do is be like, hey, I hope that job works out. Good for you, bro. Good luck. It's sincerely me.

That's the best thing I can do. And I know that's the best thing I can do. a big ask and I know that people have a hard time with that but I'm going to tell you right now it's the best thing for me and it's the it's going to sound weird it's the worst thing for you it's actually the worst thing for you because I want to have revenge on you the best revenge I can have on you is that you realize that you're a piece of shit and then I'm a good person and you screwed me over that's the best thing that's the worst thing for you and it might take five It might take eight years. It might take three years. It might be immediate. I don't know.

It might be on your deathbed. But the worst thing that I can do to you is make you realize that you were a piece of shit and what you did. Yeah. And that I was a good person that you did it too. Yeah. See what I'm saying? Yeah. It's kind of strange. Now, look, if you're a sociopath and you're like, whatever, you didn't apply for the job quick enough. It's my job. Okay. Cool. Nonetheless, even if it doesn't affect you at all, it's still the best thing because now I can move on and carry on with the rest of my life. Yeah. Yeah. So here's how you get revenge and it truly is the best way to get revenge. Forgive and forget and go win big. That's my recommendation. So there's a I've always had like kind of these weird questions about revenge. Forgiveness actually more than even more than revenge. But like forgive can you forgive someone who isn't sorry? Yes, like you know the old school like, oh, you know, I was bullied when I was in high school and They're like oh, I forgive him, but then the bully guy is still a bully and you know, I don't I'm not sorry about that like freaking whatever you do they're you're a dork or whatever Can you can't you can't yeah, you can yeah just like you're you're a flawed human being kind of thing and hey man, I feel sorry for you. It's not your fault kind of thing I'm gonna move on. Yeah, the whole even

calling it revenge. If you can't forgive them, at least move on. Yeah. Forgiven is going to make it easier for you. Yeah. And I think just the way. But if forgiving is too hard for you, at least just move on.

Be like, you know what? That person's an idiot. I'm moving on. Yeah. And they're out of my life. I'm moving on. Yeah. And forgiving's actually pretty easy.

Like it actually you do a good job illustrating it in the warrior kid books. Or especially the second one with the Nathan James. Nathan James. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, hey, people are flawed, you know, and especially with the bullying thing, for example, where, like,

there were somewhere along the line, they learned to bully other people in whatever capacity. And they're, like, flawed. That's not a good quality to have no matter who you are. Like, even a bully doesn't necessarily overall reflect on himself and be like, you know, what, I'm really glad that I'm a bully, that I bully weaker people. Like, no one's really like that. And even if they are like that, let's say they're a psychopath, whatever sociopath, it's kind of like, damn.

No one wants their kids to be a sociopath. Like that's a bad thing to be, no matter how the individual feels about it. So it's kind of like, hey, that's a flawed individual. So, man, I got to kind of forgive in that way. Now, functionally, it's different where if they're causing trouble, then yes, the trouble has to stop for sure. But as far as forgiving someone, that does make sense. Vengeance, I think, and be wanting revenge. I feel like that's like a, it's kind of.

of a slippery one where if you're in the headspace that you want revenge, you have a problem. Like you're the one with the problem. Yeah. So yes, if you're just like, hey, let it go and then just move forward and try to improve your life for sure. Sure, incidentally, that could be revenge if the other person didn't get their life together. But what if you're like, you know what? I'm just going to use that as motivation.

I'm going to get my life together and I'm going to do well in life. But meanwhile, what if that person who bullied you in high school will say? What if they got their life together too? And they're doing just as well. It's kind of like, you know? Yeah, if you truly let it go. That's what I'm saying. Oh, yeah.

I'd say it was easy. Yeah, fully, fully. Yes. And I am not saying it's not, it has no bearing on like what you said for sure. I'm just saying me trying to understand vengeance in and of itself. Like if I have this massive drive for vengeance in whatever way, even if I'm like, I'm going to kick ass in life. And that's my version of revenge. Just that the fact that I want that revenge could be.

a problem because you never like I said what if this other person is like awesome yeah and then you could let it eat you up for the rest of your life and it probably would always compare and always look at them and always be like they didn't deserve that yeah what they did to me yeah exactly it's gonna eat you up man let it go yeah yeah big I'm kind of that ironic but here's the other thing that is the look and this isn't if you're a bad person over time you're gonna lose yeah Look, it might take a long, long time because we have people like Madoff, right? Bernie Madoff.

He's a bad person, scumbag. It took 75 years or however old he was before it finally caught up with him. Yeah. So, yes, there are people that can ride that social. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jaco underground.com and subscribe. and we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms

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