Jocko Podcast - Jocko Underground: Is Social Media Divisive? Losing Faith in Humanity.

Episode Date: July 18, 2022

Social media being divisive.Losing faith in humanity.Shoe collections.Letting go of control at work.Toxic work habits.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is the Jocko underground podcast sitting here with Echo Charles Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I'm sitting here with echo Charles We were gonna I I proposed you're back from Hawaii after you're ready to get back in the game on the mats of justice. I sent you a text hey Train at this time we'll record done when we're done You denied yeah you did not want to do it. You did not want to partake I had literally zero percent interest in you know up on that Yeah. Why? Okay.

Okay. I don't want to make this too long of a story, but we do run that risk. So if a bunch of people just left the chat. First off. First off, you're correct. I am back from Hawaii and I am back in the game 100%. So in Hawaii, let's say it was a slacker trip. Okay.

I worked out a little bit, but I drank a lot of beer. I'm not partied or nothing like this, but like, You know, and I don't really drink that much beer. So anyway, diet kind of fell off. Anyway, so when I get back and, you know, we all feel like that. When we get back from vacation, I'm getting, I'm going hard. In fact, setting straight up goals with numbers, with numbers. Check this brother out.

So anyway, the past week has been strong, strong like on the path. Good numbers way ahead. I'm ahead of schedule. Training Jiu-Jitsu is on the schedule and has been, I've been training all week. Lifting everything. Okay. When you text me today Right

A Jiu Jitzi training was not part of the schedule Because I have a schedule Like I have a plan like I'm training this day This day this day this day Jiu Jitsu should always be on the schedule Every single day Yes

See I'm not there Yet Okay That's not that's not where I'm at In the program You know what I'm saying Okay So anyway

And I'm like in the middle Or in the middle of my workout Literally in the middle of my workout At 10 o'clock in the morning And you're over here. And you're over here. How are you working out at 10 o'clock in the morning? I am currently training.

Do you have a job, sir? Anyway, I'm currently training. Like a lunchtime workout starts at 11.30. A morning workout goes until 7.38. Hey, man. What are you doing at 10? We'll call it a brunch worker. We have some people in town.

We hung out in the morning a little bit. You know, I got to the workout. Hit it hard. All good. the middle of it then here comes your text what kind of lift was it like what did I do today okay so oh shh was a bad question yeah you're about to get detailed way more detailed than anybody I did a put it this way I did a shoulder circuit okay I did an arm circuit and then I did it a MacCon yeah like a

aerodyne thing anyway the aerosol bike so you were tired I was in the middle of a workout so you can't just roll in spontaneously changing the whole program can't do that it's not how it's going you know That's not how the workout program works. So you say let's train, which is going to be like less than however many hours. Then I said let's train after we get done recording. Correct. And you said no to that too.

Nope. Wasn't part of the program. Not part of the program. So I like how that's in your mind, that's justification. Yeah. Like that's legitimate. You might as well have just said that's against the law or against the Constitution of the United States of America. That's how you're talking around because Jiu-Dilis.

Correct. So here's the weird thing. That's freaking ridiculous. What you just said right there, you're like, you're on, you're on to something. It's because I thought to myself, like, why wouldn't I? Because I felt a pressure. You know when you're like, you know when someone asks you to train. And you got to know what you should morally do.

You know what the right thing to do is. I wouldn't go that for. But a little bit of that way you just said is true. Because it's kind of like, hey, it's not like I don't want to train. It's not like I don't want to do jihad. Like, I feel like me saying no to training is me saying no to a training opportunity. It's what it felt like, especially you did. You, Jock, have a way, and I think other people can vouch for this.

You have a way of, like, saying stuff without saying stuff. It's a text, bro. It's a text. I said, do you want to train it? And then we record afterwards. So you can imagine how powerful that is. So I feel it. And I felt it.

There's no exception. You're like, oh, yeah, let's train. I was sending brain negative brain waves towards you. Oh, yeah. Loud and clear. But every once in a well. So now I'm in a conundrum. I'm like, do I give in to Jocco's frequent pressure?

It's positive peer pressure. Exactly right. So you can imagine my. Would you feel better if we trained right now? No. You've got to be kidding me. Well, then again, I don't know. Answer, honestly.

If we would have trained right now, had a good role, did six, seven rounds, pretty chill, and you would not feel better right now. I don't know. And I honestly say, I don't know. And this is why. Because I think I went, you know how like you get on the program. like for a week or however many weeks. You might not know this, but this is part of the game sometimes,

where you kind of go too hard. If you go too hard with a workout and too hard with a diet, then you can like go into overtraining. Okay. Is that where you're at right now? No, no, no. But maybe. That one, that jitzy would have put you there.

What did you say? If I'm on the program and then the, and I'm doing like, if I double my workout, we'll say, or whatever, is that part of the program? Yeah, this is what I'm going through my head, by the way, to justify me saying no and not feel like guilty or whatever. So, but then, but then I thought back to my whole, like, my whole life. It's just a text, bro. I just want to train.

I thought back to my whole life when I started, like, working out and doing stuff and when I first learned about, like, working out in programs and stuff. I've always done that. I always, like, even if it's, like, good for me, it's not part of the program. doing it because it's like it's almost it started off with like okay if I do something different than the program how do I know if this program actually works if I didn't follow it correctly right so but then I got so like so strict to that idea that it kind of mutated into this like so how to drinking beer in Hawaii not working out for three weeks out how that fit on the program it was that was not

on the program okay but nonetheless that's what I was like contemplating in my head but here's the thing look after working out I go into a recovery period. Jiu-jitsu with you, by the way, is not a recovery period. That is the opposite of recovery period. So we did not train. No, we did not train today.

Maybe we'll train tomorrow. Actually, tomorrow I've off. So don't even bother me tomorrow. Okay. All right. Well, here we are. Can you do this? Can you make it through this?

Did you get K dog in here? Get Carrie in here because you're recovering right now. You got to go use a thin. a gun on your on your shoulder whatever whatever that's true it's true all right well talk a little bit i got to ask a question um the topic the topic is is a common topic that you hear a lot of people say it's you know um with social media out there no one there's no consequences right and someone's asking me you know hey isn't it seem like social media has no consequences and it's just it just makes anybody able to say anything yeah and and that seemed like a really good launch point for me

to like launch into like hell yeah social media no one no one would say that to my face they would have to pay for that kind of thing and and I was my my actual response was well actually I don't really like I'm not going to let some random unknown person on Twitter bother me right so that's my recommendation my recommendation is you don't let social media bother you because it's a lot and I guess we have to give some credit to Joe Rogan on that because he tells people all the time what does he say he posts and ghosts but he did not read in the comments and he tells everyone don't don't read the comments. And I think I can,

I can actually read the comments. And sometimes they're funny and whatever. But I don't let them get me mad. Yeah. How's it going to get you mad? It's a random person. And they got to be bothered. You know,

what's going on in their world that they came onto your area and started putting comments down? Like they got, they got issues, man. You ain't got to worry about these people that are doing this stuff. That's, that's where I'm coming from.

That being said, there is a phenomenon that occurs on social media and it's sort of like a mob, right? Not just social media, but like the whole news, everyone can kind of get caught up in group think. And I was just going through some of the psychological causes of mob mentality. And I was looking at psychology today.com. And I realize there's just when you see the the psychology of a mob and you compare it to this what you have on social media, it's the same thing. So in a mob, there's deindividuation, right? Meaning you're part of a group so you don't feel like you're yourself anymore, that you're part of this group. And that happens on social media. You see a bunch of people chiming in.

Well, you're going to chime in too. You lose your own individual thought. So that's number one. Number two, it's the same type of thing, but your identity, your personal identity. When you're part of a group, you lose your personal identity and you take on the identity of the group. So this happens on social media. That's why social media is so divisive. Or I guess it's one of the reasons why social media is so divisive.

One of the other reasons is because if you can't smack someone, more in the face now but but it is one of the reasons because people kind of lose their identity or they want to be part of that lynch mob that's throwing the hate hate hate like let me jump in you know the other thing that's funny about Twitter is you think you're going to say something and everyone's going to care about it you know like no one actually does you know hey actually it's going to be interesting with with Elon Musk trying to buy it and he he's been saying I want I need to know how many of these are real people yeah and they won't tell they won't tell them so he's like I'm out bro he's like I'm out

you know that's like you're going to buy a house and you say well how many bedrooms on the house they say we're not telling they say 10 bedroom right and you say well that's a big house damn that this is going to be a good deal and then you kind of get word that some of those bedrooms aren't even there and you say it might be a A five bedroom? So now maybe I should be paying half for it. So that's Elon Musk. So a lot of these Twitter responses and stuff,

they're not even real people, apparently. Yeah. So that's going on. Then here's what's going on. Another thing from psychology, emotions. It says being part of a group can lead to heightened emotional states, be that excitement, anger, or hostility. How factually true is that with social media, right?

Yeah. You're sitting there, you know, you just got done with dinner. You're feeling chill. You pick up your phone and you see that, and you decide to get all mad. That's what happens, man. That's what happens to people. It's crazy.

And then you chime in and here's the thing. If you're mad and you post something and I see that you posted and it's going to make me mad that I'm posting, it grows. What a crazy thing. Yeah, it's real. It feels, I think this was Joe Rogan, actually, who said this. He made a really good point, right? So Twitter, wherever, wherever.

When you post something, you write something, you post it. When you posted it, it's there. It's not like someone said it on the street and then they're gone, and then you kind of would forget about it. You posted there. It's for you to see, whenever, forever, and for everyone else to see. So it's almost like someone makes it a point to go on record to say X, Y, Z. That's what it feels like.

it's there there's an additional something to it I think it's definitely it's definitely in some ways more than just saying yeah yeah if I walk by you and I say you bald bastard or whatever cool but if I put it and post it well then it's out there it's actually like comparing it to like I don't know maybe you're a UFC fighter or a musician or something and someone in the crowd he's yelling you suck you know kind of thing it's like that's lame but they don't really care because the show goes on other stuff happened and whatever you forget about it. Yeah.

But this is like, like I said, I'm going on record forever saying this one thing, you suck and it's like right there for you and everyone. So it kind of feels like it's more official or something, you know, but even though it is literally the same thing. Well, also the thing is just like in the teams, if you ever let anybody know that something's bothering you, they're going to ride that thing, bro.

They're going to ride it to the moon. So you can't let that happen. And I think it's the same thing here. Yeah. If you're getting all frustrated, hey, wait a second. Who are you to say that to me? Like, you see, if you read Twitter, people say that kind of stuff. Hey, who are you to say that to me?

Yeah, yeah. What have you done? They say that kind of stuff. I've seen it. Right? Yeah. That's like a legitimate conversation with an unknown entity. Yeah.

That has no place. It's funny because, like, you know, when you talk about it like this, something you might call detached. Yeah, it's a detached perspective. Seems real obvious, you know. Like, if you were to ask someone, true or false, it's okay to get into arguments on Facebook with people, true or false. I would say false. Most people would say false and pretty easy, too.

Unless you get some nuanced thing and someone's like talking about exceptions and all this other stuff. But generally speaking from a detached perspective, it's pretty obvious, you know? Like, should you let people you don't know or care about bother you? Yep. by posting stuff on Twitter. Should that bother you? It's like, no, obviously. And then check this out.

Let's say you and I knew each other. Should you and I get in an argument on Facebook in front of all of our group of friends? Yeah. Because you could say, well, we don't know each other. No, no, I actually know Echo. Why would he say that? Yeah, yeah. Would it be appropriate if you're going to, if you and I are going to argue there's a party and you and I argue,

and you and I argue the best way to do is you and I start yelling in the middle of the party? Publicly. Publicly. Yeah. And then just multiply that times a thousand or 10,000 or 100,000 because it's on social media. So none of this stuff makes sense. None of it makes sense. And yet people are getting all ate up with it.

This is kind of a similar thing. Acceptability. Behaviors that are usually seen as unacceptable become acceptable when others in a group are seen carrying them out. Just the whole rules change. I can say whatever I want. Echo called them that cool I can say something even even I can edge it up a little bit Yeah, you know what I'm saying and anitome this is a Obvious one people feel anonymous when they're within a large group which reduces their sense of responsibility and accountability

Yeah, that's why people in riots go break windows and stuff they don't think they're gonna get caught Diffusion of responsibility being part of a group creates the perception that violent or unacceptable behavior is not a personal responsibility but a group one So you're getting out of it. Basically. Everyone else is hating on Echo. I'm going to throw a couple jabs in there too. Yeah.

You know, never mind his feelings. Yeah. And if he gets mad and somebody got to pay the price, it's kind of like, I know in the group it does feel like that though. Where let's say there's a hundred people in the group we're all doing something bad. I kind of feel like one one hundredth of the like responsibility of it. That's what it feels like. Definitely. That's the psychology of it as well, 100%.

You know So yeah Just go wild right? Yeah What it feels like Yeah that's exactly what happens Dude The last one is the larger

The group or crowd The more likely There will be a de-individuation Of and diffusion of responsibility So what you just said If there's 100 people Do you feel one 100th If there's a thousand

Then you feel one-one-thous Which is no guilt whatsoever So that's what we're seeing the mob mentality on the internet is the same thing that happens in a big giant riot and out of control, protest, whatever it's going to be. It's literally the same thing, which is why you as a person should be careful not to get caught up in the mob doing dumb stuff. Because even though you might get away with it, it still is not good. Yeah. Right?

It just doesn't make sense. And, and also, you shouldn't let the mob affect you. If they're common at you and getting all crazy, they're not hurting you. They're saying words to you. They're putting little digital, uh, letters together. Yeah. So don't take it so seriously.

Imagine if, imagine if social media was just 100% like fun. It was just all Just for whatever reason No one took it seriously Yeah like they took it as serious as they should kind of a thing Like like basically we weren't Yeah the illusion of all this wasn't there It was like it was like oh yeah it's just

Yeah that's funny That's kind of how I That's kind of how I feel sometimes Yeah and okay let me ask you this Because you're kind of in a unique position right Where you have like a ton of followers So you know when you're in that kind of public figure position, right? You know how it's obvious from the outside to be like, hey, you need to expect this kind of stuff,

like strangers saying bad things about you potentially. Like you've got to expect that kind of stuff versus someone who's not a public figure who just is sort of cruising on there and just doing normal everyday stuff on there. And then they take some hate by somebody. They don't know. It feels like, hey, man, I feel like they would get affected by it just naturally a little bit more than a public figure type person. Yeah. Or should I say the public figure person should be affected by less,

just because it almost is super obvious that it comes with the territory almost kind of a thing. You're going to, people are just going to come at you. I mean, just like, you know those little bird scooters? You know what I'm talking about? They're like little electric scooters. Yeah. And you can drive around. There's like one called bird.

There's one called Lyme. I think Uber has them now. Okay. Well, they put them out in like the neighborhood where I live. and people just destroyed people just destroyed them bro they hawked them off the cliff they threw them through windows it was like mayhem wait you can like rent them or something yeah you have an app on your phone you've seen these little people on scooters right so you have an app on your phone and it cost you a dollar a minute or what I don't even know how much it costs but you get on them you scooter around right well people and then you just leave it there right yeah just leave it there where it is and this is the same well and what I heard was they have this in Europe right in Holland or something and in Holland or France or wherever people drive them they park them and they let them for the next person Where I live they just hawk them off the cliff They run them over with cars

They smash them through windows So there's just gonna be people like it seems like a good idea right hey you get this little thing It's real cheap you can because sometimes something's too far to drive right or sorry too Too far to walk too close to drive you know it's a nice little happy medium. I'll jump on this little scooter cost me 50 sense. But somebody just goes, oh, I'm just going to hug that thing through the window. So you got people out there that are just going to break shit. And they're going to, they're going to do, they're going to do mean stuff.

They're going to be problem, right? So yes, if you're on social media, somebody's going to huck a scooter through your virtual window if they get the chance. And you've got to be ready for that. Now, look, that's the way kind of America is, right? America is a little bit more wild than some other countries. You know, we have a little bit more wildness to us. People go out wilding, like just getting after it.

And then you throw some booze in the mix. You don't know what's going to happen. True. So the same thing's going to happen in life, right? In social media. And you got, you can't take it. You can't get, you can't get upset about it. There's no, the thing is, a virtual scooter thrown, thrown through your window isn't real.

Yeah. Didn't even. You can just don't ignore it. Move on. No factor. But what percentage of that, or should I say in your brain where if you see a bad or negative comment, like what percentage of that is like you being insecure about something that's actually true? Oh, yeah.

That's real too, you know? Yeah. So it's almost like it doesn't matter who says it. Someone you know, don't know, a bot. It doesn't matter because if it affects you like, oh, I'm insecure about that. It's like it's kind of true, you know. Yeah. And then you go, I mean, maybe I should.

should, you know, lift more. I know, but, that's, you know, that's the, the challenge, right? You got to, you know, guess what? Here's what, here's what's the reality you got to face.

You're not superhuman, Superman, right? Yeah, and people can look at me and be like, oh, look at Joggle, he's got gray hair. Brutal. Like, yeah, I do. What?

What am I, how's that supposed to, you know, what am I supposed to do with that, you know? Yeah, yeah. He's old. Yeah, I kind of am. I don't think I'm that old. I don't feel old.

What's the worst thing that you can remember someone saying about you? I'd have to go review comments, I guess. Yeah, because there's like, there's different types and levels of insult, right? Because some insults are just like complete throwaway. Like one of mine that they insult to me. They said that I should die. Obviously, like, okay, like that's going hard.

It's a comment after my own heart. It's comical how hard they went. Like it's so obvious, you know, it's like that kind. But then if someone said something about like, I don't know, just something that's a little bit more down to earth. Oh, like, like people. People say stuff about your, your appearances on the Jockle podcast a little bit. Yeah. So.

So that's what I'm saying. Like, what's the worst? Because like, some people, like, if they're against the war or something, they're going to say some negative stuff about you, like, you know, like it. Yeah, you know, and it's like, well, if. Oh, you supported the military industrial complex. Right. Yeah, you're right. I can't have that make me mad.

I mean, that's a real thing. Yeah. By my participation in the military and in fighting wars, I definitely, the military industrial complex definitely benefited from me. Yeah. So really, that's like the two battles, right, that you're fighting on social media. One, to understand it's social media. It's not real life.

And two, is the battle kind of with your, own like it's like you guys you guys talk about having an honest self-assessment kind of thing it's like it's the battle with that kind of a thing you know I wrote in leadership strategy and tactics I was like oh how do you receive criticism from someone that you don't like you don't respect and that really you don't think even deserve to give you any criticism yeah and I wrote I was like oh what you're doing a situation like that is you listen to what they have to say yeah and you try and figure out how you can apply it to me make yourself better. I know, but that's like that can prove as one of the hardest things to do ever, ever in life. That is if it's from someone who A has no like let's say their status, their position in the company, their whatever, their expertise or whatever, they have no business criticizing you.

Yep. Or giving you like negative or critical feedback or whatever. That's A. And B, if they do it in like a condescending or a tone that's off in some way, They put those things together, brother. It's impossible. It's borderline impossible. Check this out. I've been in situations where I have been fully approved and should be fully authorized to tell someone something. And they've been like, couldn't take it, couldn't take it. And I'm talking, you know, you get like a young seal officer that has never been on deployment before.

Literally knows nothing. I'm at the tail end of my career and I have a decent amount of knowledge and I might say something like and this wouldn't happen very often and usually when it did happen it usually would result in like a real problem because this means a person's just not going to be not going to get it. But you know I give him some hey you might not want to whatever you might not want to push that many guys in the building right out of the gate. Well what if the okay you think to yourself it's crazy and I'm not even I'm not being a dick. You know, hey, hey, dude, if you're, that initial entry, you might want to push everyone. They might get a little crowded in those first couple rooms. You got so many. And instead of being like, hey, cool, yeah, that makes sense.

Or even like, cool, I'll consider that. Even that would be, you know, hey, I'm not right about everything. Just offering a suggestion. But think of that. So if you get someone that's, that you, that doesn't have any business telling you this, and you don't think they have any business telling you? But people are crazy, man. The ego is so crazy.

The ego is so crazy. People don't even recognize what's happening. They don't even recognize what's happening. They can't even understand the ego blinds people so much that they don't even, they can't attach from it. I've had people that I've, that like read extreme ownership, red dichotomy, listen to the podcast. And I'm talking to them. and they can't detach and see that, you know, like, well, the company's doing this wrong. Hey, I get it.

You know, it sounds like the company that you work with doesn't have great communication. It definitely seems that way. What you need to do is adjust the way you're interacting with your boss. Well, my boss won't tell me what's going on. I get it. I get it. But you need to change the way you interact. with your boss well why is it my business to change like that's what they're

saying to me yeah that's good and that's pure ego yeah so it's very very difficult to get that thing under control that's why what you just said you you're almost kind of beside yourself you didn't almost didn't have the words to express how hard it is to have someone that you don't respect give you feedback and accept it you know what's so good though is like let's say your team is getting debriefed and you're getting debriefed by some guy that you don't like and no one likes on the team and then the guy walks away and everyone's and you go he made some good points yeah it's so disarming you know it's

why will that guy's such a piece of shit he shouldn't have well you know he did have a good point about our headcount we could have done that quicker yeah and just you know like let's move on let's just listen to what somebody has to say yeah this is not easy man yeah I get it I get it I'll tell you what though it is it does seem like there's a a repeated, a repeated gravitational pull that you kind of have to just overcome. And then when you overcome it, you're like, oh, you kind of get, break free of it. But it doesn't, you don't break free of your ego one time. And now you're like, cool.

You break free of your ego like 38 times a day. 38 times a day, something happens where you're like, oh, like, I can't believe echoes in here, tell me that. No, it's like, oh, okay. you know what hey echo thanks with feedback on that and then you get home and your wife's like you're late for dinner and meanwhile you just worked a 19 hour shift and your wife's oh you're late for dinner and you know it's you want to slap back or clap back whatever the expression don't slap your wife you want to you want to you want to you want to go hard right yes but what you got to do is you got to break that that that is a little excerpt of what we are doing

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