Jocko Podcast - Jocko Underground: It's Harder Than It Looks. Acting, Podcasting, Speaking. Filtering Disinformation.

Episode Date: April 18, 2022

It's Harder Than It Looks. Acting, podcasting, singing, performing.Adding massive value no matter your rank / position.Filtering Disinformation.How to avoid coming across too harshly.Boy Scouts and Eagle Scouts. Discipline at an early age.Favorite books.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 48, sitting here with Echo Charles. Yes, sir. And was thinking through sort of, let's call it the lifespan of the podcast that we do called the Jocko podcast. And there was a while where, a little while in the beginning, and someone asked me about this the other day, there was a little while in the beginning where we were considering, I was considering, instead of doing it once a week, doing it like once every two weeks, maybe even once a month.

And we sort of talked about that. We kind of broached that topic a little bit on the podcast itself. And I think that was me kind of trying to socialize that idea a little bit with the people of saying, hey, this is not a real sustainable workload of the amount of effort that it takes

to put into doing the podcast and by the way, doing this podcast, doing the Jocco podcast and this podcast and the unraveling podcast and the Warrior Kid podcast. Like all these podcasts, they're not really my primary job. So there's people that have a,

like the primary thing that they do with their life is do a podcast, but this isn't really. Oh, like other people do podcasts. Other people that do podcasts, like that's what they do in their life is they do podcast. That's kind of it. you know, which is cool.

This is one portion of what I do. And so the workload is not like, oh, one podcast a week was a lot. I don't know if I can handle it. It was that one podcast a week plus a bunch of other things I have going on. It didn't seem like it was sustainable. And so I was kind of, you know, socializing the idea with the people of like, hey, you know, we're maybe thinking, well, the feedback was not good from the people. They were like, no, hell no.

The first person I told about it was a guy, he was a guy I was working with through Escalam Front, and he was like a big listener to the podcast. I don't know how deep we were. We maybe were like 50 deep or something like this. But when I started to tell him, I was like, hey, we're thinking about going to once, you know, once every two weeks, maybe once a month. He was like, I don't know if that's a good idea. He was saying as if I was cutting off oxygen to people.

So that made me rethink it. Some of the feedback we got. But yeah, the workload is tough because there's no, there's no staff. There's no one like helping to prep. There's no one doing any research or anything like that. And so, so that's, so we just kind of stuck, stuck to it. know and then after a little while after like another probably 50 podcasts I said to myself that this the the discipline that was imposed upon me by forcing myself to do this thing was hugely

beneficial it was making me read more it was making me write more is making me think through things more it was making me question myself and what I knew or what I thought I knew. So essentially, there's a lot of things that I've thought about and put out that I never would have put out if I hadn't had been squeezing on my brain to put it out. There's a lot of books that I wouldn't have read and wouldn't have known anything about if I wouldn't have been saying, hey, I owe a podcast. So therefore, I have to read this book because otherwise, maybe I'd be, you know,

watching Netflix and, you know, eating popcorn in front of the television. for four hours, but no, I'm reading a book for four hours. What am I doing on a Sunday? I'm reading a book. What am I doing on a Saturday evening? I'm reading a book. What am I doing Saturday day? I'm reading a book.

What am I doing Monday afternoon? Oh, I'm prepping. So the benefit that that's given me has been great to put myself in a position where I kind of have to do this stuff. And I think right now we're going to keep pushing. Now, we, you know, explore some other topics that interest me. But yes, there are other topics in the world that I'm interested in and that have influenced me and that I've learned from besides just war. Now, war obviously is my primary mode of thinking.

Is that weird? Well. A little bit weird. Yeah, for the normal person. If I'm going to, if I'm going to make a comparison, I'm almost always going to go to war. I'm always always going to think about some kind of war because the comparison is like, okay, here's an example. We're going to be able to see the example very clearly because it's going to be a life and death scenario. This is going to be a pressure leadership situation.

Like war is good for that. And that's why I kind of think that way. But I also have gotten things from things that aren't war, from other aspects of life from jiu-jitsu is another huge one. But, you know, from surfing, from playing music, from listening to music, from just from other activities and other things and other people in life that I've met along the way. So, you know, maybe some people will be like, I don't want to hear about that stuff. And that's okay, right? That's okay.

I understand. There's going to be some people that just want to hear about war. Cool. That's cool. Maybe we'll make some podcasts that they might not want to listen to. You know, we've had some musicians on here. We've had a photographer on here. We've had, we've had, we've had, we've had, we've had, we've had, we've had,

business people on we've so we've had some other people on the podcast but it's okay because I think if I'm starting to do something that I'm not or if I if I'm chasing something that I'm interested in then I'm happy about it and I pursue it and I'm going to learn more and if I learn something here's the cool thing just like a book if I pick up a book to do the podcast on and I get 20 pages into the book and I'm like this is not going to get me anywhere it's not gonna I have nothing to pass on to anybody from this then I'm not doing it well if I decide to think about it doing a topic and I decide hey you know what maybe this isn't like there's nothing to learn here there's no broad lessons for for the

people I'm not putting it out so I think we just keep driving we will keep driving down this road we don't know what's up ahead I'd legitimately don't know what's up ahead as far as topics as far as like subject matter as far as human beings that we bring on or that come on. I don't know. I don't know where it ends up because I'm not, I'm not sure where the road goes, but it has been a long,

strange trip this far. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like the good, and this is me speaking from a audience member perspective. Jack. I'm a fan where, you know,

there's a lot of interesting books. And, you know, whether there'd be about war or not. There's a lot of interesting people, whether they'd be military people, present, past, or not. But I think what I'd always really enjoy or learn from or both

is kind of your take on all of it, where, you know, colder than hell, right? Cool, good book. You know, I don't know that I would read that book, just on my ownness if you didn't exist. I don't know. but hearing it from you, yes, of course, yes, made it like, oh, that's interesting and, you know, heavy and like all this stuff. But what really, what I really was a fan of was your take on it.

And the fact that I could or someone, I mean, in this case it's me where I could ask questions to clarify or what do you think about this element of that or how does this apply to you or me or whatever? I feel like that part really has the value of it, which kind of goes in line with kind of what you were saying. But even more than that, and rewind back to you talking about doing it once a week. You kind of put in my head where, you know how, you know, in the beginning, when we first started, a lot of people, a lot of people would out, and I really mean it, a lot of people would ask me, hey, like, how do I start a podcast? So much where I put a page on the website saying, this is how you start a podcast. a podcast here is all the equipment or whatever so I didn't have to you know answer the questions all the time um so let me ask you like how hard is it to do this podcast like as far as hardness goes I know this is a

very specific podcast where you got to read and do all this stuff but like just consider that maybe it wasn't that much work for you but just I don't know maybe arbitrarily just sort of think a generally speaking how hard is it to do a podcast doing it versus like seeing it from the outside what you'd expect. It's probably a lot harder than it seems like it's going to be. And I think the weird thing is especially now that there's so many different podcasts and there's, look, there's millions of podcasts and maybe 10% of them are good, right? Which what that means is. So let's say there's a million. I think there's more like more than a million, but let's just say there's a million and 10% of them are good. That means there's a hundred thousand good podcast to listen to and you're not even

going to find them. And so if you're jumping into the podcasts in right now, it's going to be really difficult to get people to start listening to your podcast because they've already got 99,000 other podcasts or sorry, they've got 99,000 other podcasts in their download that they're going to listen to before you get in the game. So I think now it's really hard because there's very little return on investment for having a podcast because the chances of people listening to it are relatively small. Now, if you're doing your podcast because you want to do it and because you enjoy talking to people and you're doing it for yourself, cool. I think that's awesome. And I think that's a great way to go about it. That is kind of how we went about it. We happened to get into

the game when it was easier to get into the game. And we got freaking great. So, from Tim Ferriss and Joe Rogan, you know, giving us some, giving us some props out of the gate, which kind of brought us up to speed real quick. Very lucky for that. But and then we just kind of stayed there because it wasn't really any other podcast that was like what we're doing. So, yes, I think it's harder than it seems. I'd say it's like, you know, oh, I'm going to be a stand-up comedian. Seems real easy

Not real easy I'm gonna be a What else? What else looks easy But it isn't so easy News anchor I'm gonna be a news anchor I could do that

Yeah you just freaking read something Yeah say something about the weather About the weather Yeah I think even actor Yeah acting is big Because people think But when you see someone that sucks at acting And occasionally you know

Someone that's some kind of star athlete Will get put in a movie sometimes they pull it off but sometimes they don't and you oh acting is harder than it looks that's a sad statement but it's true

so I think maybe podcasting is like that I think I think Rogan definitely makes a lot of people think because he's he's one of those people that you know when you watch a good surfer

you're like dude I think I could you know I think I could do that because that person's making it look so easy And Rogan makes it look real easy because he's just kind of cruising through these conversations. Yeah. And then you go, oh, you get into a conversation with someone and it's not going somewhere. Joe Rogan is a black belt at finding a place to pick it up and maneuver it and listen and push back but not too hard. And give resistance enough that it makes the person work, which gives more information like he's just a pro.

And it seems, because he's so good at it that it seems kind of like it might. be pretty easy. Yeah. So, you know, hey, I'm just going to kind of do what Joe Rogan does. It's a real,

it's a real ambush waiting a half of your ego. Oh, we'll tell you right here. Man, that is so, so true. Because, like,

especially if you've been following him from the beginning, where, you know, when they started, they were on this, like, the most rudimentary live streaming website. It's called something,

Justin TV, or sort of Justin. TV or something like this, where him and this guy, Redband, Brian, they would like, And Eddie Bravo would be on there somewhere.

And they're just talking. And they're like, you listen to it. I'm like, why am I listening to this? Even though it is kind of fun to listen to it. It's just guys talking trash and having fun, making jokes and stuff. So even that then, like even that, he had skill in that, which is literally unseen. Like even him making like dumb jokes on the fly or whatever, they're kind of funny. He's a comedian, so he knows how to do that.

So, and as he evolved just, and it seemed really natural too, where he just got more and more to the conversational kind of part of it. But at the same time, it wasn't like this prepared performance like you might see on TV or something like this. And, you know, some people, they can do a performance at a play or something like this. And you'd be like, oh, he nailed that. I don't think I could do that or a singer or something. But a conversationalist, man, it's kind of like the better they are, the less you see

of the craft, you know? And to most of us, we're like, oh, man, that'd be the best job ever. All I got to do is nothing. Basically just be me and talk to these freaking cool people or whatever. whatever. So yeah, like then so when we started, um, when you would talk, you're like kind of the same way where you're just literally the exact same person off the mic as you are on the mic. But when you get on the mic as a normal person, it's like, oh, oh, you're on the mic. You're on the mic now and it's way different. Just like how you said the actors, like you know, I can act

and once all the cameras are on and everyone's watching you and the microphone's in your face. And you're like, oh, like, right, you don't know what to do. It's like, yeah. At Eschelon Front, when we're making, like, videos at Eschlam Front for training, for putting out Word. And everyone's joke is like, everyone knows what they're going to say. And then the camera hits record. And everyone just goes into brain lock and it takes nine takes to get a 45 second video. It's true, bro.

That's real. You know, so that's like a skill. It's one of those unseen skills, you know? And it's really, really critical. So that's what I noticed. And then here's when I really noticed it. When we started and then a lot of people that we know, they come to me and ask me, hey, I want to start a podcast and all this stuff.

And I'm thinking to myself, oh, yeah, I know how you feel. Freaking like when I heard Joe Rogan, freaking I wanted to start a podcast. My dream career would be that right there. Just sit in my own house. My basement or some place that I made up and talk to my friends and talk trash. And just get paid for that? This is the best job in the world. kind of do have your dream job in a way.

Yep, I do. It's even better because there's no pressure. I can just let you talk, you know. But so I understood, but they'd be like, hey, what advice do you have or whatever? And that's what I would say. And here's another phenomenon that I would see where some people, some people, they embrace the cameras and all that, and then they act like a different person. It's like all of a sudden they're this like dramatic expert now.

You know? And I's like, bro. It's like, it doesn't sound right. So that. And then the other main thing as far as advice that I would give and I still will give is like you got to keep doing it. Well, okay, I'm going to say this because a lot of the people along the way that we saw that would like start a podcast and then would stop. Yes. And it's probably good that they stopped.

Look, there's a lot of people that started a podcast along the way. and like they would tag us, hey, just did our first episode or whatever. Tell us what you think or something like this. And I'm talking, this is like five years ago. This is, and I listened to them and be like, you know, hey, sounds good. Whatever. I'm not like, I don't even know who the person is. What I'm going to say, like, hey, what I recommend is your format.

You know, I wasn't going to do this. Yeah. Like you, you, because also I never think that I'm going to be right about stuff. I don't think that I don't even think I don't think and didn't think I was right about the our podcast. Like, hey, I think this. This is going to be the big, you know, this is going to be, people are going to really want to listen about the freaking Holocaust and the Hull of the Moor and a prisoner of war camps. That's going to be great and lovely.

People are like, I didn't have that feeling. I thought some people might like to listen to it. So I wasn't going to tell someone that had done a podcast, like, well, I don't think people are going to want to listen to because I'm not normal. And I don't know. I don't know what normal people are going to want to listen to. So I think what you're saying is you're not going to get track. Very seldom are you to get traction quickly, but also there's a chance you're just not going to get traction. There's a chance that whatever you're doing, maybe isn't that it doesn't appeal to people.

And what really sucks about that is there's a chance that you, whoever you are, don't appeal to people when you're in that mode. Whatever mode you're projecting, because you're right, like I said, at Eschlam Front, like when we hit record for some one minute video, Like I just say what I would normally say and I'm done. There you go. It was like, oh, I did it once? Hey, you want to know about decentralized command? I'll say it. And then cool, press stop and walk away.

Some other members the team, they like get in the mode of like, okay, I need to say something, you know, profound or I need to put a little zing on it or whatever. And then they're not being themselves. Then it's hard to do. It's hard to pretend to be someone else. Not to mention that, you know, how you get jammed up. Oh, yeah. And we laugh at them. It's a funny.

No, I'm saying like they laugh at themselves too. They laugh at themselves too. Well, you know how you said in stunt driving or whatever you guys learned? Yeah. Where you got to focus on, like if you're trying to shoot a gap or make it through a gap, you got to focus on the gap. Don't try to avoid the cars or the side. Don't look at the car you might hit. Yeah.

Yeah. So when you're on the camera or something, if you start trying to not mess up, brother, you're going to be messing up all the time. Yeah. So you're just going to kind of forget. But I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, it's, that's an interesting thing where it's like, it's way harder than it looks. And it's almost like you won't even believe it until you do it.

It's like, oh, of course it is. Like acting, that's such a good example because I did some acting before. So have you, Sag member? And I thought, is the main acting that you did the movie that you made? Yeah, you know a bunch of. Did you do more than that that I don't know about? No, all the acting I've done you know about it. Okay.

So this is acting that you did. for your own, for your own work. For a movie I did, yeah, my own movie and then just like even little videos. Let's face it, I'm freaking acting in that thing.

Lower level than you, I understand. But nonetheless, none of that. The point is it doesn't matter. When the cameras roll and everyone's looking at you and then you got to memorize lines,

you got to project a certain emotion, whatever, you know, until you jump in there, like, yeah, It's almost impossible to understand how much harder it is than it looks. I would not want to have to memorize so many lines like every week for, if you're on a TV show, like, when I was on billions.

And those guys had all these lines. I had to memorize like four lines, bro. And they were lines that I already used in my regular life. It wasn't like some, they were like, you know, just basic stuff that I already said. So it wasn't like some weird character. I was playing it was just being me. Yeah, and I and even that I was kind of like uh-oh Because I showed up I didn't know you actually had to remember I thought I thought acting I thought the whole thing was kind of more

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