Jocko Podcast - Jocko Underground: Negotiation: Whoever Cares The Least Wins

Episode Date: January 31, 2023

Negotiation in Life. Getting a family member out of a huge lazy rut. More about Delta Platoon Commander, Seth Stone. 4 Pillars of self defense: Jiu Jitsu, Wrestling, Boxing, Muay Thai. Ice bath. Son not doing as well as he should be in college. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko underground podcast number 77 sitting here with Echo Charlie. What's happened in Echo Charles? Hi. Okay. We can do it like that. Negotiation, a negotiation whoever cares the least wins. I saw this little clip from Tim Ferriss the other day. And that is a true statement, right?

When you're in negotiation, if you don't really care, you have. leverage because you're not concerned. Well, I was buying a car many, many moons ago. My uncle, both my uncles. Actually, I have two uncles. They're both car salesmen. They're retired now. But I was buying this car and I called one of my uncles.

And I said, hey, here's what's going on. Here's the car. Here's the package that it comes with and whatever. And I told them what the price was. And he I said you know what do you think and he says it's not a hateful price And I said okay well what was that mean what should I do and he goes walk away. They'll call you And I said well I kind of like this car you know he goes walk away. They'll call you I said all right so I walked away they called you know they they adjusted their figures

Why? Because I acted like I didn't care. And they did. They want to sell that car. So, you know, this is one of the reasons I can't really go shopping for big ticket items with my wife. Yeah. Because she'll just walk up, look at a car, look at a house, and just be like, oh, I love this. No.

No. She's better now. I've, you know. You trained? Yeah. We didn't train her. She's not a dog, but we have discussed protocols when looking at properties or when looking at big ticket items, right? So that being said, a long time ago, you and I talked about something that's kind of the opposite of that.

And that is there's some environments where whoever cares the most is most likely going to win. And that's because this is like in a team environment in a work environment the person that cares the most is probably going to win because Because they won't stop until they do right so Because they care they're going to make maneuvers they're going to outlast they're going to out hustle they're going to have they're going to do things that the person that doesn't care is not going to do So when you're going through life make sure you know who you are and And make sure you know where you're at and make sure you know who you're contending with. If you're at work, you got to care. If you're in negotiation, you better not care.

And it's important to know what you're up against, right? Know who you're up against. In you're negotiating with someone, you got to know, you got to understand how much they care about the thing. And then you know what you're dealing with. Because if they don't care, then you got to understand. Understand that. You don't have much leverage. If you're at work, how much do they care?

They care more than you? Are they willing to go the distance? Because you might be wasting energy trying to fight somebody that really cares and they're going to win. So you got to understand who you're up against in what scenario it is and then you got to address it appropriately. And then on top of that, these areas, these ideas kind of collide when it comes to leadership. because when it comes to leadership, one thing that leaders mess up is they care too much about the wrong things. So they care too much about things that they shouldn't be caring about. They don't care enough about things that they should.

One thing that generally leaders care too much about is they care too much about their own ideas. They care too much about their own thing, their own idea, the plan that they came up with. They care too much about that. They also care too much when you're a leadership position about who gets the credit, right? About who said more in the meeting, right? These are things that people, in leadership perspective, in leadership positions, they care about and they shouldn't freaking care about those things. Leaders sometimes care too much about themselves and how this impacts them.

when what leaders should really care about isn't who gets the credit isn't whose idea it is isn't who said more in the meeting what they should really care about obviously is their people because if you take care of your people your people will take care of you so let's think about that the the way caring impacts different situations leadership situations team situations negotiation situations, just think about it. Know yourself, know your level of care, know what you're caring about, know your teammate, your opponent, your counter in negotiation, and know where they're at and what they care about. Yeah, it caught that Tim Ferriss clip as well.

Oh, that's good. Yeah, it's almost like whoever cares the most is going to spend the most, right? For sure. Essentially. And I don't mean spend necessarily just money. I mean, they're going to give out or they're going to expend the most. You know, they care because they care, you know. So negotiation works against you.

Yeah. Because negotiation usually you want to get the most, not expend the most. So, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that was a good clip. I thought. There you go. But as soon as I saw it, I thought about that conversation, we had a long podcast, a long time ago.

Yeah. There were some things in the military that I cared. about and it would take a while but we'd end up with a V with a with a W your uncle's a car dealer salesmaner they're retired now so but they got to all the inside tips or well I mean I'm sure there's new age it was it was there is new age stuff but it was kind of nice to have them on my side back in the broker when was that like my roughly life no that that that particular situation was yeah the 90s, the late 90s.

Yeah. Yeah, so last encounter I had with the car salesman, I knew the, I knew the tips. Oh, yeah. She's down for the cause. Oh, she's worse than me. Oh, yeah, she's the kind where, like, the opposite of your wife, I mean.

Like, she'll go in just knowing, like nobody, her dad, my father-in-law, is freaking hardcore. As far as negotiation, that kind of stuff. So anyway, so she's like that too. We go in, and I knew, I knew all the tactics. Well, most of them anyway, looked them up.

We knew that, sorry, Carl Sillsman, I'm going to give away some of the secrets. So they do like certain things, and I'm just paying attention. And I'm assuming they're doing all of this stuff or whatever. So they'll give you a good deal on it if you go financing with them because they make money off the financing. I've even heard of, and I don't know if they're doing this, but you've got to kind of know this stuff where they'll bug the office. And then when they leave, they record the conversation and they listen for more information, for more leverage or whatever. Got to know that kind of stuff too. I'm not saying they do that because I don't know I don't think that's legal is it I don't know but I've heard of that and then what was the last one oh yeah so the guy my salesman he wasn't like an older he was a younger guy and he did Jiu-Jitsu at autosos so I was like okay this is what I'm doing I'm gonna bond with this guy and I'm gonna flip him to give out all the secrets see what I'm saying uh-huh we did it so we like like sat down like give me the secrets or he was like you mean for the deal gave you a good deal yeah so but but in the

in this sense where this is what happened. I ended up talking to him and we kind of create a relationship where now he's not negotiating on behalf of the company. He's just kind of browing out with me. So he's like, he even said, and he had his mask on this was back in the day where he had to wear masks and he like totally like takes off his mask. He's like, hey, they make their money on the,

giving up all the goods, they make the money on the financing. So you just got this and that and let me get do this. And he's like doing all the stuff. He didn't have that much power. He's like, but let me tell my manager this and that. And then we ended up beginning. a good deal there you go yeah there's definitely some tactics and countertacks the funny thing is like here in San Diego back in the day the there's an area mile of

cars yeah that's where I got my first car in San Diego yeah so that those guys are like sharks down there for they're looking for those young military dudes bro you know what I'm saying like I remember I'd go to look for a car and like I was kind of read in on the game yeah because of my uncles so but you'd walk on that lot and they would be on you bro on you yeah like ready to make a deal yeah ready to make a deal and you know though back in those days I mean they're like hey what kind of payment do you want they don't care I got they're just ready to break stuff down for you they're gonna figure it out like how much how much of a

payment can you afford and then we'll get you a car that kind of matches that yeah yeah don't worry about the price I got got with that by the way oh you said car oh yeah what happened that I was like and here's the kind of car was it? Cadillac. You like those caddies, don't you? Yeah, after that car. Oh, I remember that cat.

I remember that Cadillac. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what a CTSV? No, no. No. Okay.

So that was, and here's another little tactic too, and this goes for a lot of businesses in life, but the, the guy who did it was a friend of a friend. So he's like, no, I'll tell him you'll get a good deal, right? You'd think, oh, freak, yeah, it's my friend. You know, it was kind of one of my good friends, too. Damn. And he was a friend of a friend. So, of course, I go and thinking I'm getting a good deal when most of the time now, and guess who told me this?

My wife, she's like, no. That's one the guys really capitalized because they know that you as a friend of a friend or a friend, like, you don't want to disappoint them with like, oh, the deal falling apart, you know? So you're going to, you have some skin in the game in that way where you don't want to let them down either, you know, kind of a thing. And if they know that, they're just going to take advantage of you. I was like, huh, that's weird. So she actually scolded me for getting that car without her, by the way. But so I went and I was like, hey, this is my budget. This is how much I want to.

Oh, yeah, big thing. And try bringing it up now next time you see her and she'll probably feel some kind of waste. This is the black one with not tinted windows, right? Yeah, no tinted windows. Yeah, that was kind of weird. I don't understand cars without tinted windows. Yeah, I guess. Some cars.

Maybe you should have negotiated that. I know, I should have. Okay. But he was like, hey, this is my budget. Like, I can't spend over this. He's like, okay, well, you know, and I'm thinking total price, right? So I don't know. And then he's like, oh, yeah, what kind of payment?

Like, what payment can you afford? And I was like, oh, yeah, this much or whatever. So this one, at the end of the day, he goes, hey, this is the payment, $100 more than you said. He's like, but don't worry. Like, think about it. Like, you can afford this. And just convincing me that I can afford it. It knows my budget.

You know, all of a sudden. So I'm like, all right, I was like, what's the total price? He's like, bro, don't worry about the total price. Like, we get these cars at all these, all different prices or whatever. Don't worry about that because we're not, we're not focused on us. making the profit we just want this to fit your payment budget so look and you can afford this because look you figure this and that and bro you told me crushed crushed you know what you did when you ran the calculations what did you pay for that car what's it worth no i didn't run the

comment i ended up well luckily at that time i was only making a certain amount of money and then i ended up you know doing better with my work and so i ended up just painting it off but this was here's here was the time this is when i really knew like okay i completely got screwed because So Sarah gets on the phone with him and says, hey, I don't want one of those payments that you only pay interest first. You know, first you just pay interest only for like a while and then it slowly changes. She's like, hey, I don't want that payment for him. Like I want the one where you're paying like just as much like a flat rate or whatever. You're playing down the principal out of the gate.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's just a flat rate kind of a thing. And he's like, yeah, yeah, I got you. Don't worry. I got the deal almost done already. And yes, you got that. She's like, okay. And she's like, whatever.

Sure enough. Freaking we look at like all the records or whatever. No interest only for like so long totally lied. I'm like but what are you going to do I'm not going to go school my friend's friend How long was the payment plan was it like 72 months six years? Yeah, that was the plan do you remember the payment 455 or something like that? Yep, it's real. Yeah, you can you can charge I think they can charge 24.99% interest too so like these young Navy dudes bro or these young Marines, they roll out,

and they're looking at like a brand new Camaro. It's a dream, brother, 18 years old. And you're getting a brand new Camarama. Think about that. You're 18 years old. You're getting a brand new Mustang or a super, a super duty freaking F350. Yep.

You don't know that you're paying it for eight years. Yeah. And it's cost you $142,000. So they get that. It's weird. It's also weird how emotional. cars are to buy. Yeah.

And the car, people love Americans. Maybe everyone does, but Americans really, a lot of Americans really like cars. You know what's weird about I was thinking about that on the way over here, literally. Like what, like what's the, and here's my little conclusion. You're ready for it? So the typical American does only a handful of things. And it depends on what city you're into, by the way, because some cities like cars are not really that much as much of a thing.

But, you know, we live in California. So you only do a handful of things, right? as a person and then from there it's like car yeah from there it's just a few things a few minutes a week or something you know like when you think about it right and then reduce the thing to things that have to do more with your identity it's going to be your clothes maybe your hair cut or whatever if your girl the makeup you put how you put you know basically your clothes your car because you go places right the car is essentially an extension of yourself um so yeah clothes car and maybe some people their house well I was gonna say your house but no not as many people see your house as

they do your car everyone sees your car right it goes with you pretty much everywhere you go I was gonna say see Americans when you get a car most most places it's a freedom right it represents freedom yeah but then it also represents for a lot of people's status like oh this is you know I'm being seen this car like I was rolling in a 1997 Dodge grand caravan with a taped shut window yep But my conclusion is a car is an extension of your identity or is intertwined with your identity. And that makes perfect sense, even for what you just said, where you can be like, oh, yeah, I had a Dodge Caravan because I didn't care about it. I was like, yeah, that's your freaking identity.

Like, just like you don't have a Rolex. Just like you don't wear like these $2,000 suits ever, you know? Most people with, you know, who that's within their budget, we'll say. People with money, they're going to have nice suits. They're going to have like a nice car probably. It's pretty rare. That's why like when you think of, like if you know of a millionaire or someone with a lot, a lot of money and they drive their old truck, it's like it stands out a lot.

Everyone remembers that guy because it's so rare. To grab any millionaire from San Diego, they're going to drive a nice car. Straight up. They're not driving the caravan. What's crazy is you grab just about anyone from San Diego and they've put way more money than they should into that vehicle. That's the identity, bro. They like that vehicle.

If you have someone who considers car part of status, you're going to find something else. of theirs that's going to play the same role in their life like clothes wait if they if they like the car status yeah they're also going to like the clothes status you're probably going to find that same pattern in something else of theirs you get sucked in any those things though like the watch you mentioned the watches like people are into watches people pay 20 30 40 50 thousand dollars for a watch bro and it doesn't have a stopwatch on it either by the way yeah it doesn't have like a two you can't get like two time zones or whatever no right It doesn't have the digital date.

Like the functionality is lame. Yeah. And yet people will spend all kinds. They have them in case, like a little watch display thing that automatically winds. I'm like, I got a battery, bro. They're winding things out. I know. But again, well, okay.

And then this goes for cars as well where some people, they just like cars. They're into cars. Yep. So that's different than the status. I actually do like cars. You know, I appreciate a cool car. Yeah. You know, I like that 1973 Ford Aconnelline van because it looks legit.

Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, fully. And so there's a difference between liking cars, like, just as a subject or whatever. You know, like some people, they love airplanes. Some people, some kids, they like dinosaurs or whatever. You know, they know about all the different dinosaurs and all the when they lived and all this stuff. So guys are like that with cars.

They know the 1969, you know, Camaro or whatever the cars are. And they, and that's what they're into. They're into even, a lot of times they're into like even the engine parts and the, you know, the mechanism and stuff like that. That's different than the status. Yeah, it's different than I want the BMW 974. I, whatever. The most expensive. Or, yeah, exactly.

The status part of it or the Rolls Royce phantom. That's what I want to drive, you know. And I'm not saying if you like that, that's what it is. I'm just saying that's what it can look like. Same thing for watches. Some people are there. just into that watch that's that new rare one with a sapphire I don't know something made out of sapphire and then or the rare rare Rolex or whatever right then they're into

watch they got like you know a thousand of them because they're really into them but some people they're just like no I just want a Rolex because it's status you see what I'm saying it's the same kind of pattern got it got it I oh when I drive by like apartments that people are renting and there's nice cars outside the apartments like really nice cars Mercedes be BMWs, Cadillacs, this kind of thing, Lincoln's. Yeah. I'm always a little bit, kind of feeling a little bit disappointed that you went and bought that Mercedes or that Cadillac.

You probably could have bought a little house somewhere or, you know, a piece of real estate. Oh, yeah. That's going to appreciate, hopefully, in value much more than your BMWs not going to appreciate in value. Yeah. From a financial planning standpoint, for sure, Nick. sense and like so think about this though like what if you had and obviously let's say a person had um two million dollars and that's like kind of more let's say they made let's say actually how about this half a million dollars a year they made right so it's not like they're not like top point zero one percent

but like they're like doing it though well in america just to just to let you know 400,000 it's around 400 thousand dollars a year put you in the top 1% okay So they're in the top 1%. But basically 500 G's. Some of these nice condos, like they're super nice condos, maybe like six, seven, eight, nine, ten grand a month. They're condos, their apartments or whatever. And then there's going to be a nice car like that in front, right? So a lot of times, basically the question is this.

If you make a lot of money, there's, it depends what kind of person you are to, which will determine what you spend your money on. Some people, they'll get money and be like, okay, for security reasons. I'm going to make as much money as I can so I'm safe. I got a safety net. I got you know and they and they look at it from a financial stability and safety standpoint Some people are like hey really the primary reason to make extra money beyond what I need like beyond like you know is to have fun is to have fun To bolster my identity maybe to score chicks Maybe to live experiences like you know people they just travel they're like man I just want to try I want to buy a deck out a big sprinter or something like this and and just deck it out, put some solar panels on there too, and just travel and surf or whatever.

And that's literally what the ideal money scenario would be, you know? So basically the point there is when you make money, like different people have different ideas of what money should be spent on. And yes, I think we look at financial stability as a smart thing. Yeah, we do. But a lot of people don't look at it. Like it's everything, you know. And when you're an 18-year-old Marine,

You roll onto the car lot and that dude's got a freaking brand new Camer. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jocco underground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this. We're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control. and we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast, which will remain as is free for all, as long as we can keep it that way.

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