Jocko Podcast - Jocko Underground: The Correct Way a Female Should Improve Communication

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

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This is the Jocko Underground podcast number 153 sitting here with Echo Charles. We've got some interesting questions from the people, from the troops today. Let's get into it. Cool. First question. Hi. A year ago, I was promoted to general contractor assistant superintendent on a 99% all-male multifamily construction site.

The promotion was appreciated, but unexpected. To say the least, I'm completely flabbergasted and frustrated at the quote-unquote communication or complete lack of communication. That problem is solvable, a lot of work, but doable. The issue is the acceptance of the lack of communication as the norm by leadership for multiple reasons. Then there's all the other problems under the umbrella of lack of communication. There are so many factors, older to younger, woman to men, English to Spanish, and on and on. It's interesting. The Spanish speaking guys try so much harder to listen because of the language barrier. They end up being much better communicators without speaking much English than the

indifferent English-speaking Americans. However, the cultural differences make it hard for a woman to be in authority. The whole thing is a Rubik's cube of pride, me, ego, most of the men, and a whole lot of frustration. How do I speak to men of different ages and races and backgrounds and improve the output of communication? Thanks. Okay, so I'll start up by saying this. what if I told you that no one cared that you're a woman? You're probably shaking your head right now. And you're saying that's not true. And you're actually right.

That is not true because there's going to be a couple people that care and it bothers them and they're not used to it. And they didn't grow up that way. But you know what? When you're in a leadership position, there's going to be people who are bothered because someone's a veteran or not a veteran or someone's older or someone's younger or someone's from a different industry or someone hasn't been around that long or someone doesn't you know didn't get the qualifications the same qualifications or the different qualifications or isn't related to the boss or has long hair or has short hair or has tattoos or wears funny shoes or drives a prius or drives a forward f150 350 like you see what I'm saying there no matter what who you are as a human there's going to be people

that are pissed about it they mean they don't like to listen to other people we have something called psychological reactants. No one likes to be told what to do. Just about no one likes to be told what to do. And they're just going to view everyone negatively. So that's cool. You know, that happens at Eschleon Front or show up at Eshlawn Front to work with a company.

What is this military guy going to teach us? He doesn't know about our industry. Oh, he spent 20 years of his life taking orders or barking orders. You see what I'm saying? So there's a bunch of prejudice that you guys. got overcome. It exists everywhere. It's just a reality of life. You're, you are not the first person to ask the question, how can I improve the communication with the team? The team doesn't seem to want to listen. It's so common. It's so common. And I've worked with women leaders

in every industry, financial industry, construction industry, the energy industry, military, females law enforcement females and and these women that are in situations where they're leading men where they're leading women where they're leading young where they're leading old where they're leading English speakers non-English speakers all of it and regardless good leaders do what good leaders do that's what good leaders do good leaders do good leaders do they build relationships with their team trustless and respect influence and care you know when you ask this question what is it I'm going to find this little quote in here you know how can I was something

around how can I tell them how can I tell them what to do it's hard for a woman to be in a position of authority how do I speak to men right you're you're talking about how you're going to speak to them when I would rather you be focused on building a good relationship with them and that's trustless and respect influence and care right trustless and respect influence and care so you You got put in charge of this site. And I'm sure there's, what are you, the assistant superintendent. And I'm sure there's someone that is going to, this is a construction site, multifamily construction site. So my guess is at this construction site and you were kind of surprised to be put into this thing.

So maybe you're not the most senior person or whatever the case may be. But I guarantee that there's someone on this construction site that has been framing multifamily houses for 28 years. and it's really good at it. And so when you go in and say, hey, we're going to frame the house like this, guess what their reaction is going to be? It doesn't matter that you're a woman or you're a man or you're young or you're old.

You're not listening to what they have to say. Listening is the most important part of communication. And by the way, let me ask you this question. When we're framing the house, what really matters? What really, really matters? Does it matter if they put all the two by fours to get it framed up? Does it matter if they stack them all in the front of the house or the back of the house or inside the foundation or outside the foundation?

Does it matter if they, does it matter if they put the, if they separate the lumber when it shows up because you think that's the best way to do it? Does it really matter? Does it really matter? Does it really matter if they want to frame all the walls at first and then frame some of the walls later on some of the walls later on. some other part of the outstation building. Does those things really matter? Might one of them, in your mind, be 10% more efficient? Sure.

Now you're going to sacrifice your leadership capital for a 10% improvement over something that you can't really predict, by the way. And now you're imposing your plan on them and then when it doesn't go your way, guess what they're going to do? You see what I told you, boss lady? You should have done it my way.

You see what I'm saying? It's a no win situation. So what we want to do is we want to listen more. Think less about how do I speak to men of different. Think of how do you listen from a leadership perspective. Does the team not want to do a good job building the house? Do they want to go over budget? Do they want to go over time?

No, no, no. They want to do a good job. If they don't want to do a good job, clearly they shouldn't be there, but they want to keep their job. They're making money. They work there. So let them come up with the plan. Let them lead.

Provide them support. Instead of saying, here's what I want you to do today. Instead, say, hey, do you have what you need from me for today? Is there anything I can help with? Is there any support that you need? Do you have the material that you need? Do you have the people that you need? Do you have any questions on the layout?

Does the engineering look good to you? Because you've been doing this for a long time. Does this make sense? Does these blueprints make sense? Is there anything we need to change? Anything we need to talk to the architect about? Is there any way that I can support you? And I'm not saying that you should do this because you're a woman.

I'm saying that you should do this because you're a leader and you want to be a good leader. And that's what good leaders do. That's what good leaders do. Leadership strategy and tactics field manual. Page 157, 158. Why do I know that? Why do I have that memorized? Because this is like the basis of how I answer this question over and over and over again after I got to ask this question over and over and over again.

I'm a woman leading men. I'm a man leading women. I'm a young person leading old people. I'm an old person leading young people. I'm in this situation with this culture. I'm leading in a different country. I'm in Mexico. I'm in India.

I'm in Great Britain. I'm in Germany. How should I lead? How should I lead? How should I lead? Leadership strategy and tactics. Page 157. 158.

Number one, be humble. And I'm not going to go through all of them. But listen, be humble. Here's one. Don't act like you know everything. You don't. The team knows that. Ask questions.

That's number two. Number three, listen. It doesn't say number three, give clear orders. Doesn't say that. It doesn't say number three, speak with authority. Doesn't say that. It doesn't say number three. Give them written and verbal orders.

It doesn't say that. Number three. says listen number four treat people with respect treat people with respect oh you want to get respected you don't think you're getting respected because you're a woman or you don't think you're getting respected because you're young or you don't think you're getting respected because you're old or you don't think you're getting respected because you didn't go to college or you don't think you don't think you're getting respected because you haven't been in the field or you don't think you see what I'm going to just go on and on and on there's going to be

everyone's going to find a reason not to respect you know how you get respect to treat people with respect that's what you do number four take ownership of failures and mistakes yep all day long number six did I mess up my numbers anyways number five take ownership of mistakes what was number four oh yeah treat people with respect number five take ownership of mistakes and failures number six pass credit for success up and down the chain oh that's such a good move when things go right on the job site and you get the multifamily home built quickly give credit to the team when you don't get it done on time take ownership of what you messed up well you know

the the the guys that were doing the framing took too long oh well Maybe you needed to get more people on the team so they could get it done. That's on you. You see what I'm saying? Well, they didn't have enough lumber. Well, maybe we need to make sure we have enough lumber next time. Who's in charge of that? Yep, you are.

You're in charge. You're the assistant superintendent. Make it happen. Number seven work hard. Number eight. Oh, yeah. And number seven work hard. Get there earlier.

Stay there later. Get there earlier and stay there later. You know what though? I'm actually as the assistant superintendent, I'll show up. up when I feel like it. And you guys better have a parking space for me. No. You get the best parking space because you're there first.

That's how you get respect. Working hard. Have integrity. Do what you say. Say what you do. Be balanced. Don't take extreme actions. Don't take extreme opinions.

Real easy to have extreme opinions. Dude, I'm the assistant superintendent. We're going to put the lumber where I say. No. Why are you wasting leadership? capital on that don't do it don't do it be decisive someone there's time to make a decision make a little decision it iterative decision making right build relationships that is your main goal as a leader a team is a group of people who

have relationships and trust one another that's what you're trying to do and lastly get the job done now don't take you get you get I want to get the damn job done no you don't get the job done by imposing your will on people you get the job done by building relationships and having a great team where everyone wants to work hard and get the job done that's what you do getting the job done should be the should be the by the the what's that word the result of the good relationships the byproduct that's what I was looking for getting the job done is the byproduct of having an awesome team that's what it's supposed to be it's not we got the job done team

team hates each other by the way you usually don't get the job you can get the job I had one, maybe two jobs done when the team hates each other. Then they all have a mutiny. So that's what we're doing. That's what we're doing. These are basic leadership principles. Basic leadership principles. Man, woman, young, old, short, tall, skinny, fat, doesn't matter.

These things don't matter. Building relationships, listening to what people have to say. It can be hard. You talked about pride for you. an ego for them go ahead and tell you that goes both ways both of those things they got pride too so when you come in and say hey we're gonna do this my way now oh you just made them look bad in front of the team that they've had for four that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the jaco underground podcast

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