Jocko Podcast - Jocko Underground: The Dangers and Protocol of Carrying A Gun in An Altercation.

Episode Date: May 18, 2026

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This is the Jocko Underground Podcast number 214. Sitting here with Echo Charles, we have questions from the field. And we have some answers. We have some recommendations. At a minimum, we have some courses of actions you can pursue to get you through the maze of life that Echo likes to talk about. It's true, Bill. It's true. Let's get into it.

All right, first question. Okay, I carry, and I'm also a brown belt in jujitsu. Thankfully, I'd never find myself in a physical open. On the street as an adult, but I do wonder if having a gun while getting into a fighting scenario would be a good thing What if the perp grabs it or it falls out or something while we're tied up? I feel very confident in my Jiu Jitsu in the street Sometimes I feel like if I had to use the jiu jitsu while carrying the gun would be a liability What are your thoughts on this? First thought is don't get any street fights

The second thought is have a good retention holster right that you have worked with and that keeps your weapon so it's not you know quote unquote falling out or something when you're in a fight practice and drill and spar with your retention holster and normal clothes so you see what the situation is don't get into street fights practice de-escalation avoid problematic areas walk away some reason don't get into street fights um whatever If the perp grabs it, what if the perp has a knife? You know, then what are we doing? What if the perp has a gun?

Then what are we doing? So it's kind of a weird what if. You're giving a worst case scenario to your own self, but not a worst case to the world, not a worst case scenario to the rest of the entire world, right? Train so that you're ready, and then don't get any street fights. So you can see that the trend here is don't get any street fights.

especially when you're carrying why are you getting into a street fight when you're carrying that's you know again somebody's got to grab a hold of you otherwise just run away from them and if they have a gun kill them like if somebody pulls a gun on you right you got to kill them someone pulls a knife

on you you got to kill them if they're just like saying hey they push you cool walk away from them that's it man train with it and I think you also this kind of a fear of the unknown go and put your you know, put your clothes on, put your street clothes on, put your retention holster on,

wherever it is you carry, and then go and train with it and see what it's like. And also make sure you can still access it, right? You want to be able to like get into a ground fighting situation where now you're getting beat, which you shouldn't do if you're a brown mountain, but if you are and all of a sudden you don't know how to get to your weapon or you're in a grappling situation, all of a sudden guy pulls out a knife and you can't, you don't know how to get to your weapon. You haven't rehearsed it before. you haven't trained it before.

So do some training so that you're ready for that. What does it like to reach inside your waistband? What is it like to whatever type of carry you do? What does it like to get that butt pack open? Right? I don't know what was it, what is you, you got the appendix carry? What's it like to get in there? So figure that out and train with it.

And you should be good to go. That's what I got. Yeah, that's interesting. the deal. So it's like more of a comprehensive approach to everything rather than, hey, should you have your gun or should you not have your gun if you're getting into a fight with somebody kind of a thing. Yeah, for sure. Like, hey, let's back up even more than that and be like, wait, just like I said, why are you getting into fights? I'm saying when you don't have to. Yeah. Yeah, it does seem more cut and dry. Actually, I know a guy. I don't know if you know him.

He's a black belt. And he, we were, he was at my house. Yeah, he was at my house. We're talking and whatever. And he has, you know, you know, he has a knife, like a, not a weapon knife, but, you know, carry a knife or whatever, yeah, yeah, a little knife. And I was like, for whatever reason we talked about, kind of a similar kind of thing. And he was like, you know, sometimes I feel like I should just chuck this knife, like if you were to get into a fight with somebody or whatever. I feel like I should just chuck this knife over the, over the fence before I get into it,

because it's like what I'm going to do, like stab them, you know? I'm assuming that this imaginary scenario we're talking about the other person does not have a weapon. So it's like it's not like I'm gonna stab him. So it's like now I just run the risk of him get grabbing it at some point. I was like, oh yeah, that's true.

That's a better argument than the gun one. But also if someone pulls a knife on you and you go cool, I have a knife too, this is still a really shitty situation. It's like you're getting into a power slap scenario where we're, like, you're getting cut. Yeah. It's like when you do power slap,

you're getting slapped in the face hard and getting probably caoed. Yeah. If someone pulls a knife on you and you go, oh, that's okay. I have a knife too. This is a bad, bad, bad situation. Oh, yeah.

Bad situation. So, that's why we're carrying a gun. We're not carrying a knife primary. That's not our primary weapon. Like, okay, you get a backup and you get a bit terrible situation and you have to pull your knife out. Okay.

But damn, dude, it's rough. It's a rough one. Yeah. So, my son is nine. So we'd play these, you know, we have these big sharpy pins, you know, the markers, the big ones. So I'm like, well, knife fight with that, right? For sure.

And yeah, you'd be saying, and he's nine. Yeah, yeah, he's still slicing me up. Yeah. I'm slicing him on worse. Yeah, of course. I'm just way more skilled than that, yeah, compared to him. But unless I'm getting sliced up,

my arms or whatever. And then if you do, if you just do the math, like, what if, And sometimes we look at little cuts, right? It's like superficial cuts. It was no, no, no. If you have a knife, a for real knife and you're in a for real fight, that's going to cut deep.

So I remember, like, I'm looking at my arms. I'm like, if this cut deep, I couldn't use my feet, it would cut my tendons. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, especially in an adult. And there's a whole training protocol with knives, which you are not, you know, you're not trying to do the stab to the heart.

Yeah. You're just trying to cut their arms, cut what's exposed, cut their arms. And they're bleeding out. nonetheless you get you get you get you catch an artery or a vein yeah you know you're bleeding out and everyone seen that out that I think it was in Australia where the dude just pulled out a knife stab the guy in the neck he just falls down he's dead in a minute yeah I saw one of those game over yeah so yeah so so so someone pulls out a knife yeah knife fight's not not night night

knife fight is not it's kind of like uh in jiu jitzy like the 50 50 position you know what I mean yeah if you pull out a knife and I pull out a knife and I pull out a knife it's yeah it's just bad you're getting you're getting you're getting cut yeah you're getting cut so avoid avoid shoot them yeah that uh that that comprehensive approach with a gun isn't that's and train and train for it and know where it is you know like you you got you got to you got to get in the game yeah just don't be carrying without having worked through these situations it's not a good move train I got just put you all you got to do is look in the beginning you'll probably do it for spend three days with a couple your buddies.

And spend three days, two or three hours a day with your gear on, with your street clothes on, with your jeans, with your holster, get your holster all fitted good, get it where you want it, where you think you want it,

try it out, adjust it, try it out, adjust it. And then like, maybe like once a month, go, go through those drills again

and make sure you're good to go. Yeah, for that familiarity, feel familiarity. Let me ask you this. He's a hypothetical question for Jocco. Actually, I'm not going to put you,

you're used specifically. But let's say a brown belt person versus a guy, for whatever reason, they have to fight each other, versus the guy with the gun. But the guy with the gun really doesn't want to use his gun. He doesn't want to kill the guy, right? They're just fighting. Do you think the brown belt guy could get to the gun? Well, the guy doesn't want to shoot him.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's what I mean, it seems like. easy question but that's kind of what I'm saying where a guy okay what if they were both brown belts the guns of liability if he didn't really want to use it I don't know because at a certain point he's going to want to use it yeah against a guy with no weapon though it's hard for me to comprehend the he doesn't want to use it what does that even mean because okay so actually I'm trying to recreate the maybe a scenario that maybe that this guy's worried about so like you know if

let's say you're carrying right and you get into a fight with somebody and let's say the guy you're fighting is kind of a badass guy, like equally to you, you know? You can't just be like, hey, I'm losing this fight, kind of, so I'm going to shoot him, you know? Yeah. You can't really do that. Maybe sometimes you can't apparently. No, no, unless that guy now is going to kill me.

Right, right. So we get into a fist fight and he, he, whatever, knocks me out, gets the mount and punches me in the head three times and stands up and goes, don't ever mess with me again. And starts walking away? Yes. I can't shoot that, dude. Just lost. Yeah, but if he's punching me, punching me, punching me.

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