Jocko Podcast - Jocko Underground: The Guy Who Called Out Rener Gracie's Purple Belts and Got Embarrassed.

Episode Date: September 7, 2026

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This is the Janko Underground Podcast number 228 sitting here with Echo Charles. We have some questions from the front lines from the troops. We will provide answers, recommendations, or at a minimum, courses of action of how to proceed. Let's get into it. That's true. Okay, cool. First question. Okay.

I started Jhoku Echo. I started jihitsu about a year ago, two-stripe white belt. Hell of yeah. I saw a video about a jihitsu brown belt guy who was an instructor calling out any Gracie University Purple Belt. He said, quote, if you're a purple belt from Gracie University, your Jiu-Jitsu is probably dog shit, end quote. And he also said to come to his academy to prove that it's not dog shit. Okay. He also randomly said F.U. Hennar, Hennar Gracie, which we know. Okay. Then Henner Gracie sent one of his Gracie University purple belts to the guys' academy

me and the Gracie University purple belt destroyed him. And it was in front of the guy's students and everything. My two questions are, is it normal for higher belts to call out lower belts like that? It seems like a lower belt may call out a higher belt publicly as an act of defiance or a direct challenge to his legitimacy, but I never heard of a higher belt calling out lower belts like that, kind of like punching down.

What do you guys think? And how can a brown belt guy, how can that brown belt guy recover from such inimony? embarrassing situation. Like, I don't think I would ever join a gym if I knew that was the situation with the instructor. And if I, if I was one of the students, I might switch gyms out of sheer embarrassment on top of the apparent lack of quality of skill. What do you guys think? Yeah, that was a little hot topic in the jiu-jitsu scene for a few days there. Yeah, you know, what I think of the guy doing that? Yeah, it's pretty, it's just pretty, you know, pretty lame.

Like just what are you doing dude? And Yeah, and it's not normal, you know? Because if you want to You can just go compete kind of if you want to like show your skills and you don't think other people have skills just go win tournaments right and just show your dominance, you know? And then you don't really have to like go This is it by the way. I will say this

This was not a very thoughtful action. Courts of action. This was a well thought thought out planned by this brown belt. Yeah, yeah. Like there's a,

have you ever heard of a thing called the Gracie Challenge? Do you remember this? This is not like a, this is not like a small part of the jiu jitzu of his, the history of jiu jitsu. Right.

Something called the Gracie challenge. Yeah. Yeah. Where you get to challenge them and you will fight them. And this is something that was wide open. Yeah.

In, the late 80s and 90s wide open if you want to fight them you can go to their academy sign a waiver and you can fight the Gracie challenge it was one of two of the only existing events that influenced me to join Jiu Jitsu

the other one was UFC UFC yeah yeah exactly right yeah if you understand if you've watched Gracie in action one and two you'd realize that this particular behavior of calling out and being you know disreservation

respectful because there probably was an approach of like hey my name is you know Fred and I have a jiu jitzy school up in wherever and you know I think I have really effective jiu jitsu and from what I've seen I'm not sure that the Gracie jiu jihitsu academy is keeping up with the times and I would like to try my jiu jihitsu against them I mean that still would be it would at least be in the you could be a little bit more like okay well you know you know maybe the guy's trying to do some marketing or whatever but like you know saying fuck you hanner gracy i mean you may not you may or may not like hennar gracy you know but he's a nice guy yeah he's not stealing money from this dude you know what i mean yep so it seems a little

hostile henners a very nice individual it's very hostile by the way if you think yeah if you think that the people from the Gracie Academy are not good at Jiu-Jitsu for some reason, this is a very strange, it's a very strange thing to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, proclaim. They're very, it's very, yeah, a strange thing to proclaim to, too. So that's a little weird, you know, like, if you think that the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy does not have good, uh, people at it. Now, you might have seen some, you know, I don't know what you'd seen, right? Because I see the Gracie jujitsu people, they compete. Sometimes they're, I would say they're less of a competition school,

but there are people that come from there that compete. And they're good. And there, you know, a lot of people call what we do gracey jujitsu after these actual guys, you know. So it's just a weird approach. I wouldn't recommend it, you know. I wouldn't recommend being disrespectful to people, you know? Why would you do that?

Now, again, if your plan is to get a, you know, get some attention. You got some attention. My little bro, Gino. So that's not normal. Pretty lame. And, you know, it kind of went exactly how you think it's going to go.

You know, you're going to have a guy. And it's like it's going to be a squared away purple belt. I can tell you that. A purple guy that's been training for five years that lives at the Gracie Academy. Bro, that's a good ass. about and look we all know that there's we all know that there's purple belts and then there's some purple belts you know what I'm saying there's a purple belts and there's

some purple belts and you know you got a you got a purple belt you know like this guy is not this guy's not a hobbyist this guy isn't like you know doing one class a week because he wants to learn self-defense now this dude's in the game so anyways uh not a good call on this dude's part um challenging calling out or calling out a lower belt. What's weird about all that was, is I understand if you're in UFC, BJJ, and you get done with a match and you call out some other competitor, right? Right.

And I understand in the 80s and 90s, if you said, hey, I do kung fu and I think my martial art is better than your martial art, and I call you out. But if you do jih Tijitsu and you're saying someone else isn't good at Jiu, you can go compete and you can like, everyone knows. Yeah.

So they actually have a stage. It's called competition. And if you want to prove that you're better, go. And by the way, they do have a thing called the Gracie Challenge, you know. But anyways, I don't know what that guy was thinking. You know, maybe he just got frustrated or, you know, maybe he's just not making money or maybe he's having a hard time or I don't know, dude. I don't know what's going on in that guy's head. But the dude went up there and, you know, tapped him out.

The guy was super chill, super professional. And that was, you know, of course, you know, of course they go up there and just are humble and professional and just tap them out five times or whatever it was. Did you watch the video? Yes. Hell yeah. So did I. Ding, ding. Yeah.

You know another thing? I was trying to think of what could have made him, sometimes if you're in an isolated area, you know, you're kind of a big fish in a little pond. Oh, yeah. So maybe that dude had a little bit of that. I've had guys that were a big fish in a little pond somewhere, and they came to California. And it's like, oh, yeah, small. You're small.

Yeah. So maybe he had some of that syndrome, where he was like legitimate, like he rolled with some guy that was a purple belt three years ago and kind of like when he was a purple belt kind of smashed him. He was like, dude, these guys don't know what they're doing. And he got some random guy that's a hobbyist that you know what I mean? Whatever.

Yep, yep. So, you know, it is what it is. I think the guy, the brown belt, he made an apology video. He took ownership and then Henner invited him to go out to the Gracie Academy and learn some jihitsu. If I was him, I'd take him up on it. That's what he has to do. He's got to be humble. He's got to apologize.

Be a better person, you know. You probably have some weird insecurity or something is my guess. Yeah. Yeah, I can dig it. Yeah. I haven't really thought about calling someone out in a while other than like you. Yeah, that makes sense. And he said, and this is actually a good point, the question, like a higher belt calling out a lower belt, even within the confines of jiu-jitsu, let's say, like, I don't know, let's say, obviously there's an internet kind of play, right?

So where was the guy from? He's from, like, New Hampshire. New Hampshire. I was thinking Vermont for some reason. Maybe it was Vermont. Maybe it's Vermont. Okay. But, yeah, you're right, though. Like, you know, like, he's way out and wherever, you know, a little, maybe his big fish, small pond scenario.

And then, but so he's influenced by the internet, you know, and then maybe saw one or two or three or however many like Gracie University. Is Gracie University? Is that the online one or is that the whole thing? Gracey University is, is the academy. The whole thing. And it's also the online thing. Like, it's, that's, you know, alia. Yeah, I think. Yeah. I think. Yeah. I'm alia. Yeah. It's like the whole curriculum. At least as far as I know. Yeah. Maybe I'm not parsing out the whole thing correctly. But, you know. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, he called it out. But the oddball part, which I'm kind of with this, the guy who asked the question here, it's like, he's a brown belt. Why would he call out purple belt? That seemed kind of weird. It's not like he said, like, brown belt, my level war. They're so dog shit that I'll take on a black belt, you know?

I mean that you would think that would be the call. Right. If they suck. Right. By the way, I think if you think Henry Gracie sucks at chichitsu, you're kind of crazy to be honest with you. Yeah. A little bit crazy. Yeah.

But again, kind of different, right? I'm like me. I'm a black belt. I'm calling out all purple belts. Like, proud, that doesn't make sense. Like, even if the guys are pretty good, like, you're supposed to be better than them. Yeah. Also, from an etiquette perspective, it's actually opposite.

Like, in academy, there's some academies like, you as a junior belt, don't call it a senior belt. Don't call it a higher belt. Like, you can't, like, if you were a purple belt and I was a brown belt, I wouldn't be like, you weren't allowed to ask me to roll. That's a thing. Yeah. Yeah, that's a thing. But that's a train.

training environment. Yes, that makes sense to train exactly, right? Because of a hierarchy and a respect and like, and I understand how that can exist like in certain environments. But as a call out on the internet, an act of defiance, a dojo storm or reverse dojo storm, whatever you want to call it. Like bro, no, you're calling out the top guy, top dog. I'm only a purple belt.

I'll call out the top guy. That's how good I am. It's kind of a vibe, right? For sure. That to me makes sense in the in the Bushito world of freaking warfare. You see what I'm saying? You don't say I'm gonna freaking call out the guy at this university not the top guy or nothing like that I actually want a guy lower than me you know like probably doesn't make sense that's what I didn't even think about that

That's kind of crazy you know what I would also think about is like when when they came to Hicks and Gracie Academy when the Japanese dude came to Hicks and Gracie's Academy and like challenged Hicks and Gracie And Hicks and Gracie had to drive there and they did an MMA fight no they did a they did a they did a fight like it was just a fight yeah straight up and you know like Hicks and Gracie annihilated that guy yeah beat him to a pulp right and now you think that that's not part of the tradition over here yeah yeah that part yeah I think you're right like I got to see you back in the day um Fabio Fabio took some of the Tracy challenge yeah he was you know Fabio Santos my uh my instructor in the beginning of jujitsu he he had videos of just

him like get guy off the street coming in with his kung fu or wing chung or whatever and like they're fighting fighting right and yeah it's like a real fight you sign the waiver bro it's on so actually which kind of makes me think of this let's say hypothetic in this like call out culture world will say a guy let's say it's a brown belt it's this guy's brown belt and he wants to call somebody out and again you don't call out the guy literally lower ranked in you it doesn't make sense so you're like okay i'm going to call out the head instructor right It is common for the head instructor Be like, you don't deserve to

Yeah, yeah, you don't deserve to fight me. This is the title. I don't unwrap this for you. I'll send you one of my purple belts. And he'll, you know what I mean? And if you can be him, okay, maybe you can earn the honor You know, of like another guy and then me, you know. Dude, actually, that would have been,

it would have been funny if Henner would have sent a blue belt. Yeah, that would have, you know what I'm saying? Yep, exactly right. You know? That's exactly what I'm talking about. So that would have been made it even a little bit. bit more extreme. It would have been a little bit better of a match.

Yeah. Because, you know, but who I don't know when did that guy get his purple belt, you know. Yeah. So. Yeah, the guy, the purple ball guy seemed, seem very good. And yeah, you're right. That's the risk you run when you just start calling out entire curriculums like that. They'd be like, okay, cool.

Of the, of like the, the royal family of the sports. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where there's no, there's no. There's no. There's no.

Yeah. It's like, well, no, no, no. That's the, that's the royal family. sport oh but it's but it's really just judo okay cool but it's you know it's brazilian jiu jitsu it's it's hoist gracie yeah it's hoist gracie yeah you know who hoist gracie is yeah i understand dude i trade i train with hoise gracy mm-hmm hoist gracy's hoist graycy for a reason and you know something else watch whatever i think it's ufc one or ufc two and ken shamrock who's a beast drops back for a footlock or a heel hook on on hoist this is 1993

Hoist defended that like he'd been defending, you know, like he was part of the, part of the damn Donnerd S squad. You know, like, oh, you just sat right up. Got your position. Like, no factor. Yeah. So you're thinking in your mind like, oh, there's all. It's, oh, dude. Yeah.

Yeah. It's, come on, man. Yeah. That was a very big challenge, I think. But again, yeah, this calling out the lower belt is weird. So I have no answer for that. I have no idea why that would happen. And then what was his second question?

How does he recover? My guess is this guy becomes a Gracie Academy affiliate. That's my guess. That's kind of the move. To me, it's kind of, yeah. So if you kind of zoom out, detach, if you will, and zoom out and look at it. And I was kind of looking at it as an internet fun story perspective because, you know, at the end of the day, that's what it is. You know, he could be like, okay, no, no, no, this is part of a story arc.

See what I'm saying? I freaking emerged as this kind of like petty villain. you know and freaking and then I challenge the noble prince or the noble freaking knight or whatever got completely defeated by the way yeah and no offense to my boy the purple ball because you obviously you're good let's go oh yeah fully and actually in a way to me to me anyway from this story standpoint he it was a call-out to henner that's what it was like you you you after you hanner you and your whole system sucks is dog shit that's why he said if you're part of this grace university and you're a purple belt your jiu-jitsu probably done

He wasn't calling out that property. He was calling about everybody. So it was a Henner call out really. So cool, good story, fun story, right? So Henner's like, well, I'm just a noble king, you know, but I will accommodate you, sir, regardless how petty it is. So he accommodated very gentlemanly like, right, on his turf and everything, sends him over.

Really nice, not, no, not freaking, you know. No hostility. No hostility, very professional, boom, you know, handles business and said, sir, like I accept your challenge, you know, and then boom, defeats him. And then now what, right? Now what? So this guy, sweet.

I should use this as my advantage. Henner invited me over. I'm going. I'm saying, Hannah, I was wrong. You were right. I want to learn from you.

You were now my master. And now he should become a freaking student, disciple, see what I'm saying? Of the Gracie University, Gracie Academy thing. You know what I'm saying? And now he gets better and better.

Improves his technique, obviously, if the purple belt is, you know, kind of giving him lessons on the mat. What I'm saying? Improving his technique. And by the way,

no ghee, yeah. Like he, on his, in his own gym, no ghee, which I would imagine that the purple belt

from Gracie would have preferred ghee, that's my assumption. Yeah, yeah. But no guy, no time limit, no, like to, right? So boom, now this guy

accepts his defeat with humility, right? Boom, turns over to the freaking, what do you call the force? The light side, whatever, that, you know,

the Star Wars thing. Boom, now he's a decide, now that perfect story arc, he was the bat. Now he has, what do you call it when you have history?

Like, the lore is the lore. See what I'm saying? He learned his lesson and now people will want to go to his academy. Is you what I'm saying? We'll see. I'm saying that's the move. It's really hard to humble yourself like that.

Yeah, especially if you're kind of that. But if there's one way you're going to get humbled, that was it. That was it. But he's on the right path to. Publicly, by the way. Yeah. More than publicly even internet style. But the, um, he said like just like he said, because yeah, there's a follow-up video, right?

There's a follow-up video. He's like, I'm sorry for, you know, sorry for Henry, you know, like freaking, I learned, Um, so he's on, on the right track right there. Just double down on that. You know what I'm saying? Go to Hanner, freaking see what up. People's video. That'd be the move, I think.

We'll see. But yeah, interesting, fun story. Man, you know, um, we all love Jiu-Jitsu. You know, like we all love to train Jiu-Jitsu. It's weird to just develop a beef out of thin air. You're in New England, bro. You know what I mean? It was an odd bump.

Like, like, it's like in the old days of, like the hardcore scene. Would you sauce something? that was in a hardcore is kind of like dope but then it got a little bit bigger now you just had to it was like we had beef with other you know elements and whatnot and that then it became so it's kind of the same thing like in the old days it was like you like jih Tijuana I like Jiu Jitsu but it didn't take long before it was like wait you you're from what school and then we kind of got through that right we kind of got through that to where it's like oh yeah you like jih Tudu I like to do cool let's train yeah not you like jih Tijitsu but I'm about three thousand miles away from you

and I'll call you out for no reason unprovoked it's kind of a wild story but anyways I'm sure it didn't go the way he wanted him sure he wishes he could take it all back but think before you speak y'all well that's what we're doing all right but again from a from a what zoomed-out perspective this is like this is like obviously this is a fun story to watch it's like a fun thing but project I think for this guy for the good the brown belt dude um oh fun wasn't do you recall his name uh no I think it was Clarence I think it was yeah Clarence okay Clarence if that's the name he should He should double down and embrace it.

Be like, hey, this is the storyline now. This is the narrative going on right now. The story. Jump in there and freaking, you know, make a good story out of it. We'll see. Opportunity is really. Ego is a big thing now, bro. You got to understand that.

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