Jocko Podcast - Jocko Underground: Top 10 Signs That Someone is Lying. Improving Attitudes. Working With Personal Friends

Episode Date: October 22, 2021

Top 10 signs someone is lying.How to improve morale.How to improve writing and communication skills.Working around favoritism.Learning from mentors.Working around injuries..Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is the Jocko Underground podcast number 33. Echo Charles is here. Yes. And me, Jocco Willink. So there's a phrase that I use from time to time, and that is intent has a smell. What that means is when you're doing something and you're thinking that you're going to slide by other people and you're going to make a maneuver that they're not going to see and you think you're going to get away with it. Well, the intent that you have in your heart has a smell and people can smell it. Now, look, smells can vary in their strength, right?

There's some smells you can barely smell. There's some smells that smell really bad. But it's very good to recognize that your intent does have a smell. And if you think you can just go around stinking, you're wrong. And you need to put that in check. So I started thinking about that. And it started bringing me back. I was thinking, well, how is that?

How does our intent have a smell? Because clearly it doesn't have a scent that hits our olfactory nerves and processes into our brain that way, right? But you know what I mean. Everybody knows what. As soon as I say that, people are like, oh, yeah, because we can all sense it. So I was thinking back to some earlier underground podcast that we did, talking about body language and how you read some of that stuff, what people are lying. And so I wanted to start with that, but there was something else that I wanted to tie into the conversation.

So a couple things. This is from a website called Forensic Colleges.com. Top 10 signs that someone's lying. Number one, change in speech patterns. So this is the way someone's talking. all of a sudden changes. Q, right? Oh, so that's your intent seeping out.

Number two, use of non-cringruent gestures similar. Similar, because now we were, you know, using our hands in a certain way. Now all of a sudden we start doing something different. Wait a second. There's something going on here. And here's what's interesting. You don't really, I think if no one, if you didn't know any of, these people are still picking up on it this is in the subconscious you can feel it

once you ever walk away from a conversation and you feel a little bit you think you just you're suspect or as my kids call it suss a little bit a little bit suss why is that because you picked up on these signals you didn't even know what they are but you picked up on them not saying enough there's a there's a thing here when truth-telling witnesses describe what they saw and are and are asked is there anything else more details are revealed but when liars are asked to go beyond their prepared stories few to know other details are offered that's why you get the reservoir dogs that story you seen reservoir dogs yeah what story the whole

story about the the dogs and the LAPD and he's got a bag full of marijuana and he's got all these details that he works into the story and it makes the story believable. And he has to tell that story over and over again until it becomes part of him. But most people aren't going to go through that kind of detail. So you ask him one extra question. I ever tell you about the time the tax fraud people called me? So this was interesting.

I was getting audited for real by the IRS. And as I'm getting audited for real by the IRS, I'm at an event. and I there's a break in the event and I get a text and luckily the break came right around lunch so I get a text from my wife she says you know it's like the IRS is going to call you have to like answer there's something going on and I go okay so the phone rings and sure enough it's the IRS right and they start it was early on did you hear about these scams or people like hey listen your whole we're going to have to freeze your bank account We're going to have to stop your credit.

We actually have contacted law enforcement. So they give you this whole freaking thing. Yeah, that happened for a few times. Or they tried it. Well, what's funny is my son, and this was probably five years ago, so my son was probably like 13 at the time. And my wife is talking. She has this quote IRS agent on the speaker phone.

And my son's going, it's a scam. It's a scam. But still, it freaked out my wife. Maybe my son didn't know that we were actually for real getting audited. And even that. For me, it made me go, wait a second. I know I'm for real getting audited right now by the IRS and now they're calling me. So, but as soon as he kind of laid into, he's like, hey, this is so-and-so.

And I could, he had a foreign accent. You know, he's just a little bit of a slight foreign accent. But here's what's funny. I said after he gave his spiel about how they're going to flag all my accounts and freeze this and all this stuff. I go, where are you calling me from right now? And he goes, Virginia. And I go, where in Virginia?

what city I lived in Virginia and there was a long hesitation and then he said whatever some town and I go what's the weather there like today and then he just was wide open and but that was it so he didn't go deep enough on his lie he didn't cover his story well enough so that's why asking some questions when you think somebody's a little bit suss here's the here's the flip side of that number four saying too much research from the Harvard Business School, Harvard Business School, determine that liars trying to deceive,

stretch the truth with too many words. Since such a liar may make things up as they go, they tend to add excessive detail to convince themselves of what others are saying. Very interesting, right? That's the person that does all these details. Again, Reservoir Dogs. Well, you remember that?

Like, you remember that little detail? Why are you throwing that in there? Oh, okay. So we got a little dichotomy going on here. Too much detail? Not enough detail. unusual rise or fall in vocal tone that's again I think anytime somebody's mannerisms or voice changes there's something suspect going on direction of their eyes much of much

has been discussed on the topic of truthfulness and eye contact a commonly held cultural belief in the United States is if a person isn't making eye contact they aren't telling the truth whereas in other cultures eye contact can be considered untrustworthy in a given context um what was say a research study conducted in 2015 by the university of michigan and featured in time magazine showed that 70% of people in 120 media clips lied while maintaining direct eye contact yeah i think you get some people that they if they're looking you right in the eyes and like i did not have sex with that woman right that was the classic bill clinton just straight up you know full on bold statement um

I think people get that. Again, there's a dichotomy where they're looking you right in the eye and they're telling you. And you're like, a little too. Right. This is a little too rehearsed for me. You're trying a little too hard. Freaking trying a little too hard with this stuff. But the other thing you notice with kids, you know, you got the kids and you ask them a question about something.

If they're lying, they're going to look away. They'll, like, look away. And you know what's interesting for me, if I'm talking to you and we're, I'm trying to explain something to you. I notice that I look, I will not look at your eyes when I'm thinking about where I'm going or how I'm going to pull this together or whatever.

So sometimes when I'm thinking about something, I kind of look away and then I look back. You know, I'll look a way to think. I don't know why I do that. Do you do that? Yeah. Is that normal?

I think so. I feel like that's normal. But then there's a thing where I'm looking away because I'm making up a new part of the lie. Right? Like if I was trying to explain to you, Hey, from a leadership perspective, here's what you. See what I just did?

Like, that's for real. I'll do that. I'm talking to you and you asked me a question about leadership. And I go, listen, here's the thing. When you get in that situation, I'm looking away because I'm kind of putting my thoughts together. Now, if you were like, hey, did you take my credit card? And I'm like, you know, I look away like, how could I have taken your credit card?

I haven't been even seen your wallet since we were at the gym training yesterday and I was in the locker room and you weren't. You know what I mean? So. Yeah. Um, next one covering up covering their mouth or eyes. Many people want to cover up a lie or hide from their reaction to it, which is why they may put their hands over their eyes or mouth when letting out an untruth. Okay.

I don't know. I, I had a professor in college that she covered her mouth when she talked every single time she talked with her hand. Yeah, I'd do that sometimes. So that was, I don't know. I think she was telling me the truth a lot, even though she was doing that. Yeah. Wait. What do you mean cover up?

Because I'll do this, I'll do this good stuff. I won't go like there. Well, no, but I think what you just did is it. Yeah, yeah. A little hand up in front of it or whatever. Isn't that like a lack of confidence thing? Yeah, that's what I think this professor had that I had in college. I think she lacked confidence.

So one can kind of be linked. She was not from America, so her English wasn't great. Yeah. And then I just think she was kind of embarrassed. And so, yeah, she would just cover her mouth when she talked, which was bizarre. I mean, you know you have to do it a lot to get me to notice that right. now and it's been I don't know many years 20 something years since I went to college yeah so yeah excessive fidgeting think about what a kid does when asked where the

last cookie went they may lick their lips look at their nails or even shake hands and then tell a big whopper of a lie yeah finger pointing the active pointing at lit this is literal or figurative the point of The act of pointing towards something or someone else with gestures or words may signal a surefire desire to take the focus off an individual. Cool. Lie detector tests. I've had two friends do lie detector tests that debrief me on it. And one of them was a super kind of honest guy.

and he got crushed by the lie detector. It just as soon as they, because they make you lie to it so you can see what it does. Yeah. And as soon as they even started to get to the thing that he was supposed to lie about, it went off the rails. Huh.

So what? It said he was lying when he wasn't. They say, hey, okay, echo, think of a number between one and five. You got it in your head? Okay, now when I ask you if that's the number, say no. And I go, were you thinking of one?

And you go, no. Were you thinking of two? And you say, no. Do you think of three? And if you were thinking of three, all of a sudden, that thing starts going off the rails. So that's how they set you up where you realize like, damn, this thing is good to go. But can she, isn't there all kinds of ways to beat it?

Yeah. That's why. Yeah, there are ways to beat it. And so I had another friend. And again, this is weird because he was not as honest of a person and kind of sometimes lied a lot about like little things, you know, people that like just. kind of habitually lie about stuff. Yeah.

Psychos. Yeah. Well, he wasn't a psycho. He's a good guy. He just, like, had that weird personality trait. And he, well, this is what's interesting. He had to take a lie detector test, too. And he got back and I said, well, how was that lie detector test?

He goes, I flatlined it. Meaning he just didn't get picked up. Which could have been a lie because he was kind of a liar and that sounds really cool, right? Doesn't it sound cool? Like, yeah, that's super cool. You go, damn, dude, you're freaking. awesome or he could have been telling the truth but he just lies all the time so it's just no factor for him just to be like no I didn't never did that right so and both these guys were

going for you know jobs in government agencies that require you to take it so uh this is a weird one self-identifying as a good liar perhaps the easiest way to spot a liars to let them do it for you the study showed that good liars mostly told little lies to colleagues and friends in person and focused. That's kind of what was going on with my friend that was a bit of a liar. You just like tell these little lies, like, but all the time. Yeah. And it's sort of at the group, it's almost like that idiosyncrasy that everyone just kind of gets it and just move on with it, you know?

Yeah. Like, oh, you know that guy in Jiu-Jitsu that, um, let's say taps too easy, right? And so you're like, that's just, but, you know, he's all our friends. So we're just going to deal with it, whatever. No, no big deal. This guy would just like tell a little, like basically innocent white lies, but all the time. And like what, though? Like, you know how like someone, someone lies? Let's say a normal person's going to lie.

You can see the clear benefit of their lie, like to keep them out of trouble or to, you know, whatever. Maybe get them some sort of kind of reword or whatever. But like these kind, in my experience, I know a few people like this where like he didn't even have to lie about that. Like it didn't make that much sense. That definitely is true. Yeah. Where you know if I tell you hey dude I was out till freaking One o'clock in the morning last night and I still got up at four aren't I badass right and you're like yeah you're badass

But one o'clock wasn't good enough so I'm like dude I was out till three a.m. Right you know what I mean? Yeah Like why am I doing that? Yeah you know this this makes no sense it's weird right but sometimes people they just want to add a little bit of Add a little kicker on it right the other thing I've told you this I've talked to you about storytelling, right? Where I want you to feel what I felt. And so when the mortar landed and it was 50

meters away from me and it scared the living shit out of me and I was like freaking hit the ground and I was shaken up. Well, when I tell you that story, I want you to feel that. Yes. So then I'm like, do this la this freaking mortar landed right next to me.

Right. Well, how far? Like five meters away. You know what saying so I'm exaggerating but that's different though I feel like that's like not in the realm of like sociopath or whatever like that's not a weird pathology in my opinion like no wait so far no wait so far no one that I've talked about is in the realm of sociopath like I know who you're talking about that people that are just freaking like they're out there and they're just this line just don't care about anything but themselves at all okay I like that yeah yeah I've known people like that over the years it's weird man yeah it's weird

The one, the guy that I knew said stuff, like elaborate stuff that is not only was really easy to go disprove, but it had to do with like other people. Like he said he was like hooking up with this girl who was literally our friend. It's not like he was like some girl in Canada or something. It was like our friend. Like I could literally just call it right now, you know? And he'd say, have this whole elaborate. It was weird, man. And then when you find out, you're like, you're almost scared to come front of him about it because you're like, bro, what is this guy capable of, you know?

but it is odd that reminds me if Theo von was like he said he's had like a fear of being murdered yeah that's what you have this dude how out now so I know what else is gonna do yeah man lying about hooking up with this chick

he might put an ice pick in my neck okay so there's some of the things but this is actually what I this is what kind of got me back wanting to talk about this just because I think this is very interesting this is this is the idea of smelling intent but from a very narrow focus and the narrow focus so that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the jocco underground podcast so if you

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