Jocko Podcast - Jocko Underground: What To Do if a Heavy Duty Ex-Con is in Your Jiu Jitsu Class.

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

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This is the Jocko Underground Podcast number 188 sitting here with Echo Charles. We got some questions from the troopers, you. And we are going to provide guidance, answers, courses of action to what we're doing. Bro, sometimes life is a maze. Sometimes. It can be tricky. If you feel like a maze, it'll be like a maze, it'll quack like a maze. It's a maze sometimes.

Well, sometimes, you know, all you need is one guy to be like, hey, I know this, where you are right now. Take a left, go straight, and then second door on the right. Exactly right. Then you're in the clear. You're ready. I'm saying? Take that next step. That's what we're doing.

That's what we're doing. All right, first question. Hey, Jac Occo, love the podcast and grateful for all the advice every week. I've been training at a certified Gracie University Jiu-Jitsu school for almost a year now. I love our instructors, fellow students, and I'm excited to be a part of a system that entering here on Gracie created. However, a new student now attends along with a friend who films. him for a documentary on how he's improving his life after prison.

Being curious and also because I work in law enforcement, I looked into it further. Didn't have to look far because he has an episode on Netflix called I Am a Killer. He shot his then, so this is what the episode is about. He shot his then girlfriend in the face. Then after hearing police sirens left their baby, went to his sidepiece's house, said girlfriend's house and according to her had sex with her that night. Fast forward to now. He was released from prison three years early from an involuntary manslaughter and felonious assault sentence essentially because he wrote to and won over his daughter an old friend,

who is now his wife, that he married while still in prison, who's a Christian minister. Anyway, he's now attending my Gracie combatist class, which I'm not cool with training with him at all. But again, I love the program. Grace University does student background checks in sex offender registration only. So he's in the clear to continue training jiu jitzu here. I'm, of course, leaning towards leaving and I'm currently signed up for a couple of trial classes at other jiu jitsu schools in the area, but I thought I'd ask you for advice, especially because this sucks leaving the Gracie's awesome Gracie University system. Thank you guys. Appreciate any advice. That's an interesting scenario to be put into.

It's a little test where you're at, you know what I mean, in terms of do we believe in forgiveness? Do we believe in second chances? You know I talk about forgiveness a lot. Are there some things that cannot be forgiven? I kind of think there are. Maybe I'm not enlightened enough, but I know there's certain things that could happen in my world that there would be no forgiveness. There would only be vengeance. Yeah.

Now, I guess we also have to ask, is there such a thing as true rehabilitation? Like, can a person truly be rehabilitated? Can you be rehabilitated from being a drug addict? I think you can. I've seen that before. Someone that used to be addicted to drugs and now they're not anymore. Someone that used to be a thief and now they're not anymore. Someone that used to be a criminal.

Now they're not anymore. Someone that used to be a murderer. And now they're not anymore. These things have happened. Sexual predators a little different, though, I think. Yeah. I think that's a little different. There's some wiring.

There's a lot less, what's the term? Like there's a lot less just survival instinct of like, oh, I, you know, I need to make money or I get addicted to this thing. but, you know, being a predator seems like you have a wire that's crossed somewhere. Well, like a compulsion kind of urge there that you can't like get a handle of kind of a thing. Right, right. So we're kind of asking ourselves these questions, right? So then here's the thing. So those are some kind of like philosophical questions we got to ask, right?

Right. Can people change? Do we forgive them or not? And again, like, this dude got out of jail after he manslaughter, killed a girl? Like, that seems to be the kind of thing that's not very easily forgiven. So let's look at it from a more pragmatic thing. Okay.

Does the Jiu-Jitsu school know about this individual's background, right? And are you in an environment where you could tell them what the background is if the instructor doesn't know? Like the instructor might not know. Oh, yeah, a guy used to be in prison. Now he's here. And they never figured out quite what he's in prison for. So, you know, are you in an environment where you could inform them without, you know, kind of just causing a bunch of drama and problems where now, oh, you tried, you ratted me out. And I'm getting kicked.

Like, you see what I'm saying? There's some drama that's not worth it. Yeah. Can you just stay there and keep an eye on the guy? Like, you know, maybe you pass judgment after a year. You're like, oh, no, this guy's still a dirt bag. Or you know what? Man, this guy was a drug addict at the time and he was crazy and he went to prison and he

cleaned himself up and here's where he's at now. And okay, I kind of understand. You know what I mean? Like maybe you could, maybe he could earn your forgiveness or maybe he could not. So there's that. or do you just leave because it's a lot of drama bro i don't like drama you like drama echo charles no you and i don't like a lot of drama we don't like drama so yeah it's kind of one of those things um do so if there's going to be drama and you're you know maybe raising this information to the

instructor now the instructor's like well i'm kicking him out and it's because fred told me that you were you know what I mean uh but the same time the guy might be like what are you talking about this guy killed this guy murdered someone and he's in my school I'm not teaching this guy and might be like yeah thanks for telling me get him out of here that could happen so you got to judge you got to figure that out what's your what's your relationship with the instructor like what's the instructor like instructors are not um saints jiu jihitsu does not turn you into a highly moral and ethical person there's jihitsu instructors that have murdered people. There's Jiu jitzu instructors, black belts that have raped women and taken advantage of kids. Like being into Jiu Jitsu is no sort of moral cleansing. But then again, it could

be a person that has great values and it's like, oh yeah, we're not going to train this person here. So I think those are some things that you got to think about and what they would cause to occur inside the academy. And if it's going to be a bunch of drama and chaos, then it's probably like, maybe it's better just to leave. And if you're going to leave, that's pretty straightforward. You know, go try these other schools and see what they like and, you know, go start training there. That's pretty straightforward. That seems like a, the simplest.

I was going to say easy, but I think it's actually, because I don't want you to get the ad deal like, well, that's the easy way out. It is the easiest way out, but it also might be the simplest and at least drama. And if you go through life absorbing the drama that's all around you and everyone that got drama, you jump. in that drama as well like life gets life gets nasty yeah we don't like drama so I would consider those things I think what it really really boils down to is you and you're comfortable your comfort level you're either if you're comfortable training there if you are like I said you can talk to the owners and see what their take is maybe they'll kick them out of school maybe they won't if you don't think you can talk to the owners

and you're just truly not comfortable staying there, then you go try the schools and leave. And it's as simple as that. You got to do what you think is right in this situation. You know, you might have a little bit of, it sounds like you have a little bit of loyalty with the Gracie University, BJJ. And that's cool.

But, you know, I think it's fair to, you know, you want to be loyal to the people that are, putting time and effort into you, but at the same time, they got to have some loyalty as well. And if they know about this guy being a dirtbag and they know you're uncomfortable with it, and you know what it's,

he's paying just like you are. Everyone's allowed to be, you know what I'm saying? So you got to, you got to use a little judgment here. You got to use your judgment with the facts that are on the ground and with the nuances of the situation on the ground.

But for me, it seems like you're most concerned and you literally say it sucks because leaving the Gracie's awesome Gracie University system. The Gracies have a great teaching protocol. So does Eddie Bravo. So does Marcelo Garcia. So does John Donaheher. You can go right down the list.

Like there are incredible jiu jih Tuses all over the place. And you'll be fine. If that's your major hang up, I wouldn't worry about it. That's kind of where I'm at. What do you think, Echo Charles? Yeah, I agree with you. The, I do feel like the most important part is to, I would just start casting judgment right away.

Because, you know, with all overt indications, you know, in play, I feel like it's kind of like he's kind of on the right path, right? He did a documentary exposing everything he did. And then, you know, he's doing a thing life after prison, basically how I got my life together. You know, that's like, that's a good thing to be doing, I think. So, you know, if it's genuine now, if he's like hanging around and then over time, if he gives it a chance, be like, all right, maybe this guy's on the path.

I get it. You know, like the path is or his past is checkered, but he's on the right path. And then give it time. And then he turns out to be, you know, he has a temper and he's kind of a toxic person. And you're like, you know, and, you know, then yeah, okay, leave or take other actions or whatever you want to take or whatever based on that. But I do think sometimes, and I'm being exposed to it more and more with the internet, where it's like, yeah, people have a bad path.

And then they're like, hey, I'm going to kind of tell my story so other people can avoid certain pitfalls in life, you know, if they don't have much guidance. And then I'm going to go on the right path and try to inspire people to be like, hey, you can get your life back together rather than, you know, I'm just going to stick with this bad kind of method of living. Because that's a real thing, too. So if he's doing that and you're like, ah, screw that guy, you know, and don't, you know, and you kind of jam it up for yourself going,

you know, leaving a thing that you already like and all this stuff and you didn't have to, then I think that would be a bad move. So I think just give it time. And then you can kind of assess as you go on. One might call it iterative decision. Very good. I like it.

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