Jocko Podcast - Jocko Underground: When You Give, Should You Really Not Expect Anything In Return?

Episode Date: August 18, 2025

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This is the Jocko Underground podcast number 178 sitting here with Carrie Helton. Carrie, first time in the hot seat on the UG. First time on the underground. Happy to be here. Do you think you're going to be able to read these questions? I'm going to try. You think you're going to do better than Echo Charles? Possibly.

All right. We'll see. We'll see how it goes. Let's get into these things. We've got a bunch of questions from people trying to provide some guidance, some courses of actions that you can take. overcoming some of the challenges you're facing out there. So let's get into it. First question. Good evening, Echo and Jocko on Underground episode 147 when you mentioned paying for your kids

college so they'll take care of you when you're older. Did you mean that literally? You've often said that you should help others without expecting anything in return. It's even in Warrior Kid too. My parents paid for my education. I do feel I owe them, but they use that to guilt me. It would feel transactional. But if they use that to guilt me, it would feel transactional. Likewise, if I pay for my kids' tuition, my future kids tuition,

I'd want them to care for me because they want to, not because they feel obligated. So to me, paying tuition to, I'm sorry, so to me, tying tuition to future care

seems to go against the idea of giving freely without expecting something back. How did you think you did? Terrible. Terrible. You know, you had some things I could see when you got to tying tuition. You thought that that was a mistake.

I did. And you changed it. I did. Proactively. So, but not a bad. I'll tell you, Echo Charles over the years, his first ones, he would edit them heavily, but he was not good at reading aloud. I would venture to say he's still not that great reading aloud.

But he definitely got better. It's a little bit of a skill I think you can develop But I'd give you like maybe I'd give you a solid reading well I'd give you a C yeah no reading aloud first like first time you see something it's tricky it is it's tricky There's like you can have like I'm decent at it kind of naturally I'm not very good at many things naturally like I'm pretty much like not good at stuff But I'm lucky that I'm okay at that and Echo is not but he's developed it Yeah all the time props

So there we go. Let's get into this. So good question. And straight up, like, I would have to go back and listen to exactly what I said. But no, I don't mean that. And I'm glad you caught that. I definitely don't mean that literally. I think maybe as I try and think about what I could have meant, what I might have meant,

again, I'd have to go back and listen to it. I might have meant that if they go to college, hopefully that puts them in a path where they have a good career. And if they so desired, they could take care of me if I needed it. when I was older and my wife as well. Now, just a little side note here, parenthetically, at this juncture in time, if you've heard me talk over the past few years, I definitely don't think that college is necessarily the best way to set yourself up for success. There's a lot of other options right now. I think the trades probably are paramount right now because I don't care how good AI gets, it's not going to be able to rewire your house or fix the plumbing

leak that you've got. AI is not going to do that for you. So going to the trades, I think is excellent. Going to the military is excellent. There's plenty of options out there that are not college. But regardless of the path that my kids chose, I would try and help them travel down that path. But to case and point here, this is not so that they would owe me, right, in the future. Because you are correct that when we help people and we give people things and we move them in a positive direction, we should do that without expecting anything of return. And in fact, the minute you expect something in return, it kind of is, there's a little bit of a a hint of badness in there, right?

And it's the same thing with cover and move. You know, we teach an echelon front. The first law of combat leadership is cover and move, which means you support your team. But I don't support you, with the thing in the back of my mind that says, well, now that I supported you, you owe me support.

I don't do that. That's not what we're doing here. So, yes, you are correct. The goal, the, the, another element here is the actual goal for me is that no one needs to take care of me when I'm older, like got things handled and, you know, financially handled and physically I stay in good enough shape, but you know, there's some things you can't control.

But we are trying to set ourselves up my wife and I so that my kids won't have the burden, the financial burden of caring for us when we're older. So that's kind of the actual goal. And then on top of all this, I would say that the real goal is that if you raise, these good kids, they're going to want to help you out and take care of you if you need it. So do a good job as a parent, and I think your kids will help you out. And I think that's a good thing. So that's kind of where I'm at.

You caught me. I think I don't know exactly what I said. I'll have to go back and listen to it. But I did not mean to say that you should help your kids pay for college, so they have to take care of you when you get older. But a good kid that you raised is going to look at you and say, oh, yeah, you know, I really appreciate what you did for me. And you need help now that you're, you know, the roles are reversed. And they see that.

Because a lot of times you forget, you know, it's easy to forget what your parents did for you, right? That they went through all kinds of crap for your dumb ass. Literally. So. And this is care, right? If, if you care for them. Yeah, yeah. You know, they're going to, they're going to care for you.

you. Yep. In most cases. In the vast majority of cases. Are there people that are freaking psychos? Yes, there are. Yep, there are. Are there people that are sociopaths?

Yep, there are. But most people are going to be cool. So. Next question. Hey, Jocko. I have something I've been struggling with a lot lately. I'm 32 blue collar, grew up in a blue collar home, spent my childhood playing different sports and hunting.

Now I have. a five-year-old daughter that is the sweetest thing ever. Love her to death. I am struggling big time with her completely losing her shit, breaking down and crying over some of the smallest little issues. For instance, this Sunday we were getting ready for church. She just got a new dress and was excited to wear it for the first time. She got herself all dressed and while my wife was helping fix her hair, I walked into the bathroom and the baby with the baby. and she just started bawling because she wanted to show off for me and her look wasn't complete and I spoiled her surprise.

She ran in the room hiding by the bed, absolutely losing her shit. I tried to talk to her, but it only made her emotions worse. My question for you is how to make your daughters mentally tough. Again, she's five, so I know she is still very young, but I want to instill it in her young. I've already started years ago teaching her to have good manners. Yes, sir, no, sir, no thank you. I've tried several times to help her be tough, but it hasn't stuck yet. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thank you. Yeah, man. You kind of know this because you mentioned it a bunch of times. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jocco underground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this. We're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast, which will remain as is free for all,

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