Jocko Podcast - Jocko Underground: Women Joining The Army? | Too Big, Too Heavy For Jiu Jitsu

Episode Date: June 24, 2024

Problematic director of the team.Applying for a job with massive egos involved.Screen time, and productivity tips.Women in the Army? Good and safe? Or no?Big and heavy in Jiu Jitsu: how to keep everyone safe.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is the Jocko underground podcasting here with Echo Charlie, E.C. We get some Q&A to get to. Let's do it. Advice for the people. That's what I like to call it. For me too, by the way. I'm over here. We're getting asked questions.

We're figuring stuff out. We're working through it. Yes, sir. Okay. Hi, Jocco and ECHO. What's the best way to handle a managing director, this is that work, who is competent, but increasingly disrespectful to board members, she views as less knowledgeable. My family member and I are on the board of a well-financed NGO founded by my grandfather who passed away less than two years ago.

We're reorganizing now with the help of this managing director. She's full-time with their own team. While the board is volunteer and inexperienced in humanitarian aid but successful in other areas. Recently, the director has lost her temper, shouted at board members, and refused to consider alternatives. though efficient and hardworking when things go her way her behavior is problematic the board meets four times a year and I try to plan coffee meetings with her but she often doesn't have time and gets defensive when confronted when we we prefer not to change leadership again any advice what to do with this girl you're in a board position we could talk through the escalation of counseling which I've talked through many times before it's in the book leadership strategy and tactics we could talk through through that how you start off by asking some earnest questions and then maybe you have to escalate a little bit to like you know if echo's late then the first thing I do is hey echo you use everything okay and then after that I say hey echo you're late again like this is not you know you can't do that like I mean

you understand that right and you say yes I do it and I actually say if you do this again I got to write you up and you go now you don't need to write me up and you're never late again or if you're late again okay cool then next time I write you up and I explain exactly why you can't be late and I explain the corrective message you need to take. And I explain the consequences that are going to happen if you're late again. And then hopefully you're never late again. But if you are late again, then I'm going to execute the consequences that I told you I was going to execute. So you can see where this is going.

So that's called the escalation of counseling. And also, I've also referred to as the escalation of directness because you're getting more and more direct. You know, echo, if you are late again, I'm going to fire you. See, that kind of thing? Sure. Yeah, I see what you're saying. So regardless of gratitude, right? Because other people are waiting.

Sure, potentially. So that's, so that you, the person that wrote this should definitely consider that. Now, in this situation, you've got a person that's in a senior leadership position. I'm assuming that they're not a young person because she's very experienced in this realm, right? So we're not dealing with a 23 year old that just kind of got her first. job out of college and now she's been put in this leadership position. It's not the situation we're dealing with here. She's more experienced than the other people and she's all she's shouting at board members losing her temper and refusing

to consider other alternatives. I would escalate the directness very quickly like immediately. Like if I showed up in a situation and I First meeting or third meeting we have and this woman is yelling at people and losing her temper and refusing to Listen to other alternatives. This is how that human is because it's not a 22 year old. This is how that human is. You ever heard that thing like a tiger can't change its stripes? Yeah. I Now I can tell you that a tiger or a human can have a traumatic experience that can change the way they behave. You know, they can hit rock bottom is the classic example, right? Oh, you've been drinking all the time. You hit rock bottom.

You get divorced. You lose your job. You lose your license. You wake up in the gutter one day and you say, oh my gosh, I got to change. And you quit drinking. Yeah. Sometimes people lose their mind in some, you know, a competitive situation.

And they realize, oh, my gosh, I've got to, like, control myself. And they can change. Maybe they get ejected for the rest of the season. Like something like this, right? And they go, oh, my gosh, I got to change. So the tiger essentially if they go through something that impacts them personally and they have the the the self-discovery that they need to change they can change But if you force try and force that thing and without them recognize it's not going to happen and even sometimes

People just can't change you I mean how many people have you known in your life are like hey you shouldn't be doing that and they keep doing it and they ruin their lives Yeah They ruin their relationship. They get fired from their job. Whatever the case may be, because they couldn't just stop talking back, stop, you know, blaming other people, just whatever it was. They just couldn't do it. So they ruined their lives.

So we know people like that. This happens. So you've got a woman here that is losing your temper, yelling at people. And not considering other ideas, I don't like this situation at all. So what I would do is I would sit down and I would write. write her up like basically immediately. Hey, here's what's going on. This is you. This is, this behavior I see. We don't do that behavior here. It's not acceptable. If it happens again, you won't be here anymore. If that's what I would say. I mean, and how often do you hear

me be in this direct? Echo Charles. Very seldom. Very seldom. Why is it? Because she's in the leadership position. She's a senior person. She's supposed to be experienced. She's running your stuff, by the way. This is totally wrong. So I would give her that direct feedback. And there's a possibility that she leaves. You say you don't want to change leadership. Let me tell you what. You don't want to have this psycho as your leader inside your organization.

You don't want that. She's going to drive everyone else away. You'll end up with the horrible organization. So I would actually write her up, explain to her, her shortfalls. Say if I see it again, you're done. And this is not the type of culture we want to have. This is not the type of people we want to have. So you fix yourself if I see it again

It's over and even then she's probably gonna behave in front of you And she's probably a total tyrant with the other people on her team So I would be very suspect of this whole situation That's where I'm at Is there like you know and this kind of gets off the top of your head Is there a certain behavior or type of behavior that someone can kind of engage in that kind of tells you Hey this is kind of more who they are than a one-off? Yelling at people.

Yelaining your temper, yelling at people, not listening to other people. These are like three characteristics that are so bad for leaders that I hear them and I'm just, I'm immediately in the write-up mode and like laying down the wall,

we don't need you here. Right, because yeah, like it almost feels like yelling at people and the temper thing, you know, they seem like to go hand in hand, where that's not like a conscious, or it seems like anyway.

It's not like they're sitting around saying, you know what? If this happens, you know what? I'm not just going to do. I'm just going to start yelling. yelling that's a good move for me they don't think like whole I think a good solution here it would be for me to all right let me get into character I'm gonna yell

yeah what's happening exactly right true colors yeah yeah true colors are shining through right yeah and especially if it's happening on any kind of regular basis kind of seems like well that's just how straight up I also don't like when someone is when someone denigrates their subordinates and someone bullies their subordinates I do not like that. Yeah. I do not like that at all. Yeah, I dig it. So, yeah, this is just not good. Yeah, that denigrating your subordinate answer, people that you even, yeah, dude, I was in a restaurant the other day with my family. Yeah. And the person in the booth next to us was just being such a jerk.

I can't even eat this steak. I actually order, you know, and he's going back and send it back. I want you to get this back to the kitchen. You tell the chef this is like that kind of guy. Yeah. Yeah. What's weird is like, I hear, we hear so much about that how it's like, hey, it's kind of important to treat everyone. It's the same, especially under these circumstances. And a lot of time, the restaurant scenario, which is such a common scenario, which is why it's

usually the example they give. Like, how do they treat the weight staff? You know, it's like literally the example they give all the time. And then it's weird how people nowadays can literally behave like that at the restaurant, you know, like be the example. We all know it's the thing not to do. Yep, exactly right. Anyway, so I was in the booth.

And it was a, my booth was kind of catty cornered, or it was a corner booth, let me say. There was a corner booth. And then the next booth over with this dude. Yeah. Now his back was to me. But I could clearly hear it. I mean, he's, the waitress when she's talking to him is like three feet away from me. Yeah.

And he's just being a total jerk. Yeah. So she, so she's like, comes to my table next, which is one, she takes one lateral step. Yeah, yeah. And then she says, is everything okay here? And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is absolutely. Absolutely delicious. Thank you so much of the best steak I've had.

I mean, I just kind of laid it on. Maybe I laid it on. I didn't lay it on too thick because too thick would have been offensive. Like he would have known. Yeah. But I just put it on enough. Yeah. And you know what?

Didn't matter. He still kept complaining and bitching about everything. Yeah, that would make sense. Did you loud talk him? You don't like loud talk? Like, you kind of like put extras on it to, you know, hopefully he hears it kind of a thing. Mm. Maybe it's maybe a time.

Actually, my son did. Yeah. He was like, he was hostile towards that individual, you know? Because, dude, like this poor freaking waitress, you know what I mean? Yeah. She's a freaking single mom. She's busting her ass. She didn't make the freaking steak.

Actually, when you think about it, really, the waitress, it's like maybe she's not a single mom. Maybe she doesn't care at all. It's a, I mean, in my opinion, in the other side of that, which is even more significant, is like, bro, what is the guy, what's he thinking? Kind of like, hey, you know, when I do this, they're really going to think that I'm freaking high status or my standards are just so high. Like, I don't know what they're going for with that.

Yeah. My family seems to think that if you act like that, you're 100% getting you spit in your food. Yeah. But it's 100% happening. That's what I thought from when I was young. That's always nervous. I was like, bro, you're going to send that back and say it's not good enough.

So send it back where I can't see it. And they're going to, bro, those guys are going to be so mad at you for that stuff. Bro, just, yeah, suck it up. Yeah, that's what we're doing, man. Yep, but so I think we see some tiger stripes here. That is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jocco underground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms.

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