Jocko Podcast - Jocko Underground: You Will Fail To Make Your Kids Exactly Who You Want Them To Be | What To Do In A Confrontation With A Crazy Ex-Con With Weapons.

Episode Date: November 7, 2022

Your kids wont turn out exactly who you want them to be.Is a lack of emotion bad?A confrontation with a crazy ex-con with weapons.Having a hard time saying "no" to team members. Enabling."Thank you for your service".Finding a new mission that lives up to the last one.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 68, Echo Charles, sitting here. This is an echo Charles topic. And it's a topic that, look, you sent me a lot of topics. Yes. Most of them I don't. Most of them don't make the cut. I'm just being straight up. You reject them.

I reject them. Yes, sir. Because some of them, I don't really get. Straight. Some of them, like, I don't understand how that's interesting. But you know we're following with it. Okay. But I will say this last two undergrounds have been your input. Okay. All right. So we're you know progress is being made, we'll say outstanding. But this one, what's interesting about this one,

this is something that you've heard me say. Yes. Which is your kids won't be what you want them to be. They'll be who they are as a topic. And it's something that we've talked about before that your kids and if you have more than one kid you know that your kids they're genetically predisposed to be a certain way like they're just going to be a certain way you can influence that way somewhat but sometimes man they're going to be just different and in my opinion the more you try and control them the more they possibly can rebel against that thing, that ideal that you're trying to push them towards.

Now here's why I was, why I think this is a good subject. Because that's one part of the topic. Here's the, when you take that topic right there, to me, it's not just about for kids. This is about humans. This is about all people. And while we do have influence over people, our kids, our employees, our bosses,

Because we have influence over all kinds of people. But they are going to be who they are. And you, if you try and get them to change by imposing on them, it's not going to work as effectively as you might wish. Hey, look, is there a small, tiny percentage of the population that is just, hey, will you, will you coach me, will you mentor me? And they really want it and they really will. there's a tiny percentage of population that are like that tiny it's tiny most people are like oh will you coach me but I got my own way of doing things you know oh will you coach me because I think I can learn from you and then make it better like that's the way most people think so the

best way to influence people is through the indirect methodology what do I mean by that setting a good example I think this is so powerful and what's really hard about this one is it takes years People have to see you for a long time setting a certain example before they go, you know what, that's a pretty good way of doing things. It doesn't, they don't go, wow, that was cool. I respect the way Echoes handling that relationship. I'm going to do the same thing. It doesn't work like occasionally.

But most of the time you just set an example and over time it osmoses it into people's brains. If you're overbearing with the example, then it becomes, then you become like you're flexing your example all the time and you're trying to show how good you are at this thing, it becomes off-putting and it's not going to help. If you want to influence someone, indirectly, you've got to build a relationship with them, right? And how do you build a relationship, trust, listen, respect, and influence is something. We talk all the time about it, the echelon front. If I want to influence you, I got to allow you to influence me.

If I want you to trust me, I got to trust you. If I want you to listen to me, I got to listen to you. This is what we talk about all the time. By the way, this applies with your kids. By the way, this applies with your employees, your peers, your bosses, everybody. Asking earnest questions. Another important methodology for steering people. It's so much better to say, hey, where are you trying to get to than to say, take a right or take a left or keep going in that same direction.

Now, it's, look, that works more while we're driving a car. Even when you're driving a car, by the way, that can piss people off. You're like, hey, you're, hey, you need to take a left here. Bro, what are you talking about? You don't even know where we're going. I'm driving. I have my GPS up. What are you talking about?

Why are you talking to me? That can be offensive. Just trying to tell someone the road directions can piss people off, right? That's why there's a literal term for it, backseat driver. There's an actual term we have for don't freaking directly tell people how to drive because it pisses them off. Hey, you need to slow down. Hey, you need to speed up.

Hey, you need to back off. Say that to my wife while she's driving. I dare you. I dare you to say, hey, you're a little close to that car. I dare you to say that to her. See what happens. See how that direct effort to influence my wife on how far she's tailgating somebody from. Right?

You know what I'm saying? I know exactly what you're saying, sir, yes. How does Sarah Charles react to these scenarios? Well, it's been a while. But since you learned that lesson early on. Very early on. You know not to, we're not playing. She hasn't learned it, but.

Oh, see, even that coach, Charles gets a little heated. Everybody gets heated with direct. So that's weird. That's such a perfect metaphor. No one likes to get told how to drive. Now you think they want to get told how to live? It doesn't happen. You know, have you ever told someone?

hey you should you should don't tailgate so close and they were like oh thanks for telling me I'll back off a little bit does that happen in your life never it's never happened to my life I was with a friend of mine he got caught off by a motorcycle brutal and and like the guy like kind of flipped him off okay yeah and my friend was driving and started driving exceedingly fast oh to chase him to chase him and got to him to him and got to him and started following him at like the most insanely dangerous proximity. And I'm like, bro, stop what you're doing. This is not like, didn't help it all. In fact, he accelerated, right?

Yep. Thankfully, we had to turn off the highway. But I was like, dude. But this is such a perfect example because you know your drive. You know your wife is driving too close to that vehicle. Yeah. You know it But she doesn't want to hear that shit from you

So that's the way life is And when you try and direct people And from the backseat driver That's the reason why You're the backseat driver and they don't want to hear it So what you have to do is you have to use the indirect approach That's what you have to do So you say

Uh You know Hey, what kind of car is that? Did they cut you off? So you say that? No, they didn't cut me off. Oh, I was just wondering because you're like right up on them. You might get away with that.

Even that might be too direct, right? Yeah. So asking earnest questions, building relationships, that's the way we have to focus this. If you want to influence people to change their behavior in life and their methodology for driving. You have to take the indirect approach. Now, here's another positive way to get this done. Give people ownership. Give people ownership.

People like to be their own boss. Most people. I'm going to say 70% of people like to have ownership. They like to have control. Actually, more than that. In life, everybody wants to have control over their life. 99, 97% of people want to have control over what's going on. So when people in their life, when you give them responsibility, it's positive for them.

When you say, and I answer a question like this on the academy today, it's like, oh, we're in a work in an industry where you can't give them any ownership. Bullshit. Even in the most stringent of businesses or industries, like nuclear power, one of the strictest industries that we work with, nuclear power. If there's a protocol for how you enter a building, hey, there's the, and I go, and you're the guy that's in charge of the building? And I say, hey, here's the protocol, follow the protocol. You have a little grudge. You have a little grudge. Now, if I say, hey, Echo, here's a protocol. We've been using the past. I know you just got here.

Let me know if there's any changes that you think need to be made. This is what we've been using. All of a sudden, you are stoked. I gave you ownership. I gave you ownership. I gave you of an existing protocol, but I gave it to you instead of saying, hey, instead of imposing it on you, I gave you ownership of it. So if you could do that in life, it's going to help people in a big way to take ownership. And then what you do is you can ask questions about where they're going. And you know, we had an interesting conversation with Chris Voss and he pointed out the fact, which I agree with, that the word why is an accusatory word, right? Hey, why are you doing this?

Why are you tailgating that car? It's an accusatory word, which is an interesting scenario because, as you know, at Eshlam Front and from a leadership perspective, we talk a lot about explaining the why. And so you've got to explain the why so that you'd think that, okay,

then you also should be asking why. But I agree with the fact that asking someone, hey, why are you doing it like that can put people defensive immediately. So instead, if you say something like, hey, what's your end goal that you're trying to achieve here? Or what is it you're trying to get to? Or, you know, hey, how does this fit?

Hey, how does it fit in your long-term goals? If you can ask those kind of questions, they can be less accusatory. And some of them you could still ask accusatory questions. It doesn't matter what was used. So you have to be careful. But asking earnest questions about where people are going that help them discover the truth is the way to go.

And treating care, here's two similarities in life. So, you know, I wrote about leadership strategy and tactics. One of my favorite methodologies for training people is putting them in leadership positions. Because what you do, and you do that is you give them responsibility, you give them ownership, and it's a positive thing. It's the same methodology that I have for kids, which is if you treat kids like an adult, It gives them responsibility. It makes them step up.

Now, look, I'm not saying you, you know, throw them out in the streets and say, figure it out. But to say, oh, you got to make your own breakfast in the morning. I'm not making your lunch before. You know, if your kid is, I can't think of the exact age, maybe six or seven years old, they should be able to make their own lunch for school. You got to sick. I can't remember the ages. What do you think?

Six years old, make your own lunch? My boy will not. Can't make his own lunch at this time. He's six. But what if you trained him? Yeah, I could train him for sure. So right now you're just letting him suffer. Yeah, that's one way to put it for sure.

No, I mean you're letting it, you're making him become dependent. Yes, that is one way to put it. Yeah. Put it this way. Actually, now that I'm thinking about this consciously in this direct way for the first time, yes, I probably could begin the training process for that. It's about now, yeah. So let's say six years old, you begin the training process for you make your own munch.

You get your own clothes out. You have your book backpacked. Yes. When you're ready to go, you come tell me that it's time to go to school. Yeah. Right? This is the opposite of where. Everyone else is like, hey, got to go.

Hurry up. Get your shoes on. We got to go. No. Maybe that's eight. Might be only because, well, then again, I'm only thinking about my, I've only had one. Well, I've had a six-year-old daughter before, too, but I can't remember that. That was a while ago.

But currently, if I say, this is my prediction because I haven't done it yet, but if I Hey, you tell me when you're ready. Oh, we're late. 100% probability. Okay. Then you have to be able to deal with the consequences. Okay. Hey, son, you're late.

That means you're going to get in trouble at school. That means you're not going to be able to go to recess. That's not on me. That's on you. You're responsible. And you start to treat kids like an adult and they'll start to take responsibility and take ownership. And that is how you get your kids to be who they are, but to be the best version of themselves

that you can hope for. That's my recommendation. Yeah, I got this idea from you directly. And it was like once I kind of accepted that, you know, because I was like one of the many people who was like, you know, before you have kids, you see other people have kids, you're like, eh, I'm going to be like, for lack of, I mean, put maybe to simplify it, I'm like, eh, I'm not going to make those mistakes.

Like whenever I got it kind of figured out. Yeah, yeah. I know what I'm going to do, you know. So, and I think. that's a common thing for sure. And then when you get in, you know, the first, you know, the expression from Mike Tyson, he said, yeah, everybody has a plan until they get punched in their face. So it was really that.

It was like, it was one step from that, in my opinion, how it felt where, yeah, when you're in it, brother, these kids are acting all different than I expected. Like, and I just thought, oh, yeah, all I got to do is be consistent and say this and, you know, whatever, but it doesn't even work like. You got their own brains. Not even close. I was like, dang. And certain things that were working that I was like, that would never work.

But it's like, oh, shit. It's interesting how that works so easily. So it's hard. There's a lot going on, you know, we'll say. And then here's the part that it's hard to even predict even a little bit is we all think we're going to be perfect. Well, not we all, but in my case, I kind of maybe subconsciously thought I was going to just handle everything perfect. Why would I lose the temper of a kid? It's just a kid.

Why would I get mad at that? Why would I get frustrated, you know? It's just a kid. but man you're like a human I'm a human being too you know and I'm not going to be perfect 100% of every interaction every minute of every day

like that's not going to happen obviously and quite frankly it's not even going to come close to that so you're going to react in certain ways sometimes right sometimes wrong and then that's going to influence them in a certain way and make them develop in a certain way so it's like brother there's no way you can just make them be who you want to be brother they're going to be

so you're not going to be perfect They're not going to be perfect as far as your little plan kind of a thing and man the the soon when I accepted that I was like brother There's so many factors and man all you can do is literally like do the best you can kind of thing Learn as much as you can for sure yep Now just to point out to everybody this is not surrender Yeah, it's not going well the hell with it. I mean my kids no the most the best way to have the most positive influence over your kids to steer them in the right direction and give them the best possible life is by taking this methodology. If you do the like, well, I just need to go harder. Your kids are

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