Joe and Jada - Angie Martinez IRL - Gabrielle Union: You Never Know What Your Friends Are Going Through

Episode Date: February 11, 2026

Actress, model, and author Gabrielle Union joins Angie Martinez to talk about her peaceful era. Gabrielle speaks about her struggles with PTSD, ultimately leading to the notion that you never know what the people around you are going through. Gabrielle talks about her loving relationship with her husband, former NBA star Dwyane Wade, and raising their children together. She talks about what she’s learned from marriage and how surrounding yourselves with happy couples is important. Union stars in her latest animated movie ‘GOAT’ with her husband, as well as Stephen Curry of the Golden State Warriors, ‘Stranger Things’ star Caleb McLaughlin, Jelly Roll, Aaron Pierre and many more. Gabrielle discusses the impact Tisha Campbell and Regina King have had on her as Hollywood OGs. Finally, she answers a fan’s question, and Angie asks some ‘In Real Life’ questions.Visit your nearest Boost Mobile store or https://promo.boostmobile.com/webuiltanetwork/ytb/All lines provided by Hard Rock BetVisit Walden https://waldenu.edu to learn more!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Over the last couple years, didn't we learn that the folding chair was invented by black people? Because of what happened in Alabama? This Black History Month, the podcast, Selective Ignorance with Mandy B, unpacked black history and culture with comedy, clarity, and conversations that shake the status quo. The Crown Act in New York was signed in July of 2019, and that is a bill that was passed to prohibit discrimination based on hairstyles associated with race. To hear this and more.

Listen to Selective Ignorance with Mandy B from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. 1969, Malcolm and Martin are gone. America is in crisis. And at Morehouse College, the students make their move. These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson,

locked up the members of the Board of Trustees, including Martin Luther King, Sr. It's the true story of protests and rebellion in black American history that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles. I'm in Malibu. Listen to the A building on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Bowen-Yin. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, and the lead-up to the Milan Quartina-26 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bois, hi, Matt, hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie.

Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experience. experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

One of her first directing gigs, unless it was her first, was on being Mary Jane. And, you know, everyone has a moment, and I was having a little moment, a little bratty moment. And she came to my trailer. She has a little thing as sunflower seeds. And she was like, you know, hit me some sunflower seeds. And she's like, basically cut the shit. Cut the shit.

I was like, I'm going to cut the shit. And sometimes you need that too. You know, it's not always, you know, moonlight and roses. Sometimes you need, you know, an OG to be like, cut the shit. Have some sunflower seeds. Thanks for watching, guys.

Today's episode is brought to you by Boost Mobile. From starring in American Teen Classics to becoming a scene stealer in some of our favorite movies, like, Bring It On, Deliver us from Eva, Bad Bunny. Bad Bunny. Bad Bunny. Bad Bunny movie. Bad Boys, too. She went on to lead as being Mary Jane, which is one of BET's most successful scripted series. She's here promoting her new role in the animated sports comedy, Goat, produced by Steph Curry. She's a New York Times bestseller, a producer, a wife, a badass, a mom, a friend, many, many things. Please welcome my friend Gabriel Union to IRL Podcasts today. Yeah, that intro, I'm going to be honest. It doesn't really hit all the points. There's so many things that you have done in your career. It's really quite impressive.

It's weird. It's like you're talking about somebody else. So what era is this? What season is this for Gabriel Union right now? Oh, this is my let them era. Oh, yes. It's like, okay. Okay.

And you do it so well. Except when we were having challenges in Miami getting into the game. Maybe that wasn't my finest hour. That was definitely not a let them. It was like, let me take over. Where did we go? We went to the national championship game. That game.

Yeah. I didn't know what we were going to. I just kind of showed up. That was the first time. I've hung out with you and D before. That was the first time I was hanging out with you guys. And it was an event that you were part of. And he was like the plus one.

Yeah. And it's kind of really sweet to see you too in that dynamic because he really puts an effort to say, no, no, no, I'm just a plus one. He likes saying that, but I'm like, baby, you're never the plus one. Of course, he walks in. We're in Miami. I know. And, you know, Tom Brady is also doing this gig. And Tom's like, where's the guy?

Where's my guy? I was like, he's over there. Never saw Tom again. They're just chopping up. Yeah. But no, he's in a very supportive space. You know what I mean? It was supposed to be after he retired.

You know, we're moving to L.A. It's all about me. Oh, this was going to be your season. This was going to be my season. And then he promptly took like eight more jobs. But yeah, we're doing better at actually being present and being truly supportive. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? I mean, rent is going up.

Streaming services are going up. Even like your favorite burrito place all of a sudden wants to charge you for salsa. you go to the supermarket, they want to charge you extra for the bag. It's kind of crazy out here. The good thing is, with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill do not have to play that game. You don't have to play the Will This Go Up Soon game. Why? Because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text, and data plan at a price that will never go up.

In fact, it's the same price you'll pay for life. So switch now to unlimited wireless at a price that will never go up. Only at Boost Mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the boost mobile unlimited plan. So how is retirement life for you? How does it affect you as a couple? Like how has life changed? Well, just him being home was just different. Like he doesn't, you know, you get into a rhythm of how things are done in the house. And then he comes in and, you know, he's very particular and a little

persnickety about how things are done. Yeah. Yeah. So that will cause a little shift. Yeah, because we're like a little looser. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, this doesn't have to be put away or this doesn't have to be perfect. And, you know, he came home and he's like, what have I been paying for? He's paying attention to details. Oh, so much attention to detail. But it was also like watching him find different passions, you know, when you've been so good at one thing for so long and you're recognized globally for being good at this one thing, you know, what's my next challenge?

And watching him find new passions, you know, you know that. he's taken up golf. And that's y'all's passion. He's my best friends. He's one of my golf best friends. Because he's as much of a psychopath as I am, and I love that about him. But he's like he's really, really into it. It has coaches and he wants to be the best.

And now he's really into photography. Oh, wow. So no matter where we go, he hires a local photographer to like teach him, you know, new things. I love that. Yeah. So, you know, he's really into different things. he's more interesting and he's into art and travel and wine. Wine, of course.

And potting. He was potting, podcasting for a little. Oh, yes. No, he still has a podcast. I thought you think I said, but I just, never mind. I was like, pot. You know, he, I mean, he is an investor in cannabis companies. Yes.

That's so he does pot. I was like, is that called potting? No, he has a podcast. You guys have really, by the way, of this, of my pod era, like, you guys have really been a lovely support. Like, you support it. Like, I feel like, I don't know, we went on your 50th party and he had like a hundred questions about interview style and the way I was doing certain interviews that he had watched. And it just was, you know, sometimes you don't think your friends are even paying attention to what you're doing in that kind of way. Because it was like a new thing for you.

And he was, you know, he's in that period of discovery. Yeah. Of like, could this be something I'm passionate about? Could this be something I'm good at? And so he's like, I want to talk to the goats. and you're a goat and all that you do. Thank you. So he really, I mean, he was legit, very interested.

And then he watched, he watches every episode. Oh my God. I love that. And he was like, did you see like how she did it? Like, what she transitioned. I was like, yes, you should talk to her about. No, he pays attention to all the little things because he wants to be great at being a podcast.

He wants to be great as a, you know, as a interviewer. And, yeah. So he watches the goats. What are you working on now? Like, what are you trying to be great? What are you finding new in your life? I'm trying to be great at being in a peaceful state. Uh-huh.

And, you know, no matter if there's adversity going on that, like, my soul is at peace. Like, I don't have to submit to the chaos. I don't have to join in. Give me an example. What are you talking? What are you thinking about? I mean, it's Hollywood, right? So I'm working on this movie that I guess I can talk about just yet, but we're working

on this movie. And I get to work and there's no pages. Like, I was like, well, what are we performing today? And they're like, we're just waiting on the pages. And I'm like, so I'm just supposed to get these pages and act. And deliver. And deliver, like, with no preparation. So old you would have what?

I had an anxiety attack, for sure, because I live to be prepared. You know, I believe there is no such thing as luck. It's, you know, when opportunity and preparedness come together. And so if I'm not prepared, how can I be good? Right. And so you panic. Full panic. And then the rage.

How dare you set me up for failure? You know what I mean? Right. And I was like, it's going to be great. Okay. Like my soul is not being disrupted. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. But I also did this or I did this program that's called NEMA. And it's, it helps people with post-traumatic stress syndrome, which I've been a victim of for 33 years since my sexual assault. And finally getting help that is specific to post-traumatic stress syndrome. And this is. thing that you've been doing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I believe in it so greatly. I've become an investor. Like, I'm a part of the, the, the, the, the, the, um, the team. Because it, it, it changed my life. Tell me how. Tell me what it is. Like, it's, it's a, so I, you can either do, like,

between, like, 10 and 15 sessions. I did mine sometimes back to back every day. So I might do five, one week, three, the next. Is it therapy? Is it therapy? Yes. It's do you one-on-one with a trauma specialist that's trained specifically in PTSD therapy. And they have tremendous success. And they've been using therapy on veterans, on, you know, anyone who's suffered, you know, from suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome. And it's funny, it's not funny, but it's the majority of the people that they see. You would imagine that they're soldiers, you know, are veterans. And we are being traumatized daily and we don't recognize

that we are being traumatized daily. You mean like news or just... Whether it's the news or just things that are happening to us that are devastating that we're not expecting. And you can't predict how it's going to land in your body. Right?

You know, like my husband grew up, oh, that guy's dead on the street. Oh, you know, parents dealing with addiction and what comes with that, like the uncertainty of childhood. Everything is on the table, basically. Anything could happen at any time. That can leave you traumatized and how it manifests. It may progress to PTSD or not.

But there's a lot more people that can benefit from these therapies than probably who would think that they could. But wait, so what is the difference between that and regular therapy? So I've been in regular therapy literally three days. after my assault, right? I workman's comp kicked right in and I started seeing a therapist to help deal with it. But it's therapy that's not like specializing in trauma. In that kind of trauma. So it got me to where it was like a band-aid, but on a gusher. So it got me till the next week. But I wasn't seeing any progress. I've been in therapy for 33 years. But I wasn't, I didn't feel like I was

getting better. I have so, like, the anxiety would be a full body anxiety. And because I'm a still now? No, not since I completed the session, which is insane. Which was how long ago? I completed it beginning of October. But that's a lot. So you've been caring that for all those years. And it just becomes a normal part of your body. But then, you know, health issues. And you're not realizing that it's slowly killing you at the same time. Wow. So not only did I, I was able to find what peace feels like in my body, my health improved dramatically. Like night and day. Like the, you don't, I didn't understand how much that kind of anxiety was inflaming my body,

was exacerbating the, the autoimmune issues that I have. That's so fascinating to me, yeah, because all these years I feel like you've done so much work on yourself and therapy and all the things. I feel like you've done all the things. I felt like that's what it was. I thought that was the best case scenario. I didn't think it could be better. Like I'm doing everything.

I can function. Like I'm not, you know, in a padded cell, but I wasn't free. But for you to go searching for that, there had to still be something. Well, I heard about it. I'd heard about the NEMA treatments. And I was like, I wonder if that would work for me. And the more I learned about it, I was like, and it's like therapists, you know, driven, centered. And I was like, can I invest?

Can I be not only a client but the player president? Like I want it in because I'm like if this works for me, I want to scream it from the rooftops that it could work for anybody else. And it's you get homework every night. Like the homework might be like an hour almost as long as the session. And it's like reaffirming your safety. And when I felt safe enough to allow peace in, now I don't want to let it go. So like. So then what shifts?

Like what has changed in you since that? the immediacy of the panic, the immediacy of the terror. It's like if we were to go out like golf, right? Yeah. If I hate for somebody to have to come correct me, right? So if we didn't have the right, whatever, collared shirt or it's not tucked in, we know, whatever the rules are at the golf course, I would live with anxiety that someone's going to come up and say something to me and I'm going to be disciplined. And I wouldn't be able to enjoy myself. But you guys might not notice because it's just what was normal to me in my body, like a state of like full terror. And now it's the absence of this. And I was like, is this peace? Because I don't want to ever not have peace. I'm like,

obviously it's life. So bad things are going to happen. Adversity is going to happen. You might not have a script the day you're supposed to be shooting 10 pages. It's going to be all right. We'll figure it out. But it doesn't have to be feeling like I'm being actively hunted. Wow. Yeah. The fact that you've been feeling, that felt that way for so long because you don't present that way at all. That's why everyone's like, you don't really give me, you know,

like someone who's anxious. And I was like, because I don't have the option of looking anxious, but that's what's happening. And also because you've been managing it for so long that you manage it well. Well, it's normal now. Right.

So you know how to put a face on and you know how to work through it, but you still feel it. Like throughout my whole body, like stomach issues. heart issues. It was it was manifesting in literally out of every pore. Wow. And I was like, so wait, there's another way. And so when I completed it, I was like, okay, is this going to stick? And I'm also like when people come up and I can't see them, like the feeling of being startled

is like you might as well have a gun to my head. Like or someone, just somebody saying, hey, it's nice to meet you. But if I don't see them coming, it's like, you know, inside. Inside. But what ends up happening is I'm like, no, it's so great to meet you. But inside, it's just, you know, so I could tell the first time somebody came up to me and I couldn't see them. Wow. And I was just like, it's nice to meet. And it wasn't the full body jolt. That was recently, just recently.

Yeah, in the last few months. You know, going to Rome. Yeah, that makes me feel like, well, first of all, my God, it's like a lesson for like, we don't even know what our people, our friends, people, people, close to us. I mean, you know some things that I've shared with you about my life. And I have the same thing as you. I have to show up for work. So sometimes you have the worst day, but we know how to show up and deliver and do the things. But it's just, I don't know, hearing you say that, that's like, it's just really a testament to like really, you do not know what's going on inside other people's bodies or inside other people's kind of traumas or. Or, you know.

or just the internal voices that they have going on. And we could miss it so much. And we're so quick to judge people how they behave. Or somebody could see you in that moment. Somebody could have just done that to you and not be thrilled with how you greeted them, not having no idea of the trauma that you were feeling inside. And it makes people feel bad.

Like you walk up to somebody that you want to say hello to and they're like, you know what I mean? It's kind of hard to continue after that. Yeah, you're like, never mind, sorry. Yeah. And I was like, no, no, no. I just got startled. I'm sorry.

Well, this is a big deal then. This is a big shift. It's a major shift. And like to feel at peace in my body in the midst of chaos, but I don't succumb to the chaos is huge. And it's new. And I'm like, I'm not going back. So what are the perks of that?

Like, is like life better? I don't care. Like everything, like there's. Everything's better. Everything's better. And I'm not, I just still, okay. You know, like Mel Robbins says, let them. Let them. I'm like, okay, you think X, Y, and Z about me?

Okay. Life didn't change. But thank you for taking time out of your day to tell me how awful I am. But like, I don't care. I don't care. That's not something I'm going to give energy or attention to. But you did before. You know, I generally don't scroll past the first three comments for the most part.

So if I go looking for it, you're going to find somebody to tell you about yourself. And you're going to read something that someone said. that you actually feel about yourself. And you'll spin out. And oh my God, my God, am I that transparent? Like, are people seeing every flaw that I feel like I have? And it could ruin your day, it could ruin your week. And now I'm like, I don't care.

God bless. It makes me realize how brave you are, though, because you've made choices in your own life. You've made choices. Your family has made choices to live their lives truthfully and publicly. So to know that it would affect you that much, but you still made the choice. Because I can't.

I may have been a prisoner to PTSD, but I will never be a prisoner to the fuckery. I'm just, I won't. You know, I'm one of those, see something, say something, people. I need the freedom of truth. I need the freedom to tell the truth, to hear the truth, to hold your hand when you're dealing, you know what I mean? But if I'm in that other space of pretending and always, you know, having to be on, it doesn't really allow for you to be human.

You know what I mean? And I'm just not willing to go back. It feels too good being. Did I just kick you? Sorry, Buba. It feels too good to be fully in my body and fully present. And so no matter how hard it is, you know, no matter how many. How many times the FBI calls you?

And it's like, you know, you and your family are on a hit list. Is that a real thing? It's absolutely a real thing. But that's what comes with truth-telling, you know? But there's also that other price to pay. But I just can't be put into a gilded cage. I don't know. I watch too many people that I know and love who have so much to offer and have so many amazing things to say, put themselves in a gilded cage.

You know. So afraid. Yeah. Deathly afraid. I mean, and there's things to be afraid of. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's death threats are weird. It's a weird sensation.

And it's like, if it's just me, but my baby has to die, that's something. And I don't think people really understand the weight of truth telling in this day and age. Yeah. Talk to me about that. being at trying to lead from the front all the time. I mean, the first one to the microphone, the first one who says something, the most, you know, fierce and ferocious advocate and activist.

And then my health took a big hit. You know, it took a big hit. And for years, it took us a while process of elimination to figure out what was actually going on in my body and that I was being ravaged by an autoimmune issue that is exacerbated. by stress and anxiety. And it was just me always feeling like I got a, I got to always be ten toes down on everything. I was dying slowly.

I had no idea, yeah. Yeah. Because it's like for a long time, we didn't know what exactly it was. So it's like MRIs and scans and biopsies and this and that and the other. And like you're, you're, you know, waiting for the results. And they're like, well, it's not cancer. You're like, okay, well, what is it?

They're like, hmm, it's a mask. You're like, okay, thanks. Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Inalek Lamoma. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. Have both been assassinated.

And Black America was out of breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia at Martin's Almemada, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history. Martin Luther King Sr. and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people would die. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone.

The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind. Listen to the A building on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bowen-Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead-up to the Milan Quartina-26 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bowen, hi, Matt, hi, hi, Elmo.

Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in England. to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What is one thing about love you've had to unlearn? That it's earned.

That it needs to be forever for it to count. February is the month of love. Whether you're in a relationship, casually dating, or proudly single, it's a great time to reflect on yourself and what you want. I'm Hope Woodard, host of the Boy Sober Podcast, and each week this month, we're looking at love from every angle. I don't know how to tell my partner, like, what I want in bed. The thing about romantic fiction, I would say more than any other genre of culture is that it's always put women first. My marriage stopped making sense. The connection started to feel off.

The behavior started to feel different. This February, get in touch with yourself by listening to Boy Sober. That's B-O-Y-S-O-O-B-E-R. I'm like, I would love to not hate the man. I'm sleeping with. I don't know what that's about. Listen to Boy Sober on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Segregation and the day integration at night.

When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules. We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like stepping on another world. Inside Charlie's place. Black and white people danced together. But not everyone was happy about it. You saw the KKK? Yeah, they were dressed up in their uniform.

The KKK set out to raid Charlie, take him away from here. Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush him. From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch, and visit Myrtle Beach, comes Charlie's place. A story that was nearly lost. to time. Until now, listen to Charlie's Place on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Insert more anxiety, but I'm supposed to not have anxiety. So I'm not inflating. It's been the last four years. Yeah. So finally, again, kind of close to like October,

getting on the right medication to deal with, you know, some of these issues. But when you're in it, you know, people don't understand like inflammation, crazy inflammation. can literally make your face look like a circle. Like, and it's not going to be the most symmetrical. Like, you know what I mean? So it could be bigger over here. This could be bigger. This part of my lip is swollen.

And they're like, ah, bad filler. And I'm like, or I'm slowly dying. But get your jokes off. Get your jokes out. Oh, she's ruined her face. And then now people see me and I'm like, I'm just not inflamed. You know, I'm not, my body is not trying to kill me. And they're like, oh, she's let it settle.

I'm like, get out. First of all, stop reading the damn comments. Okay. Stop reading the comments. You know. You don't do it. You don't live that way just for you, too. Like, that's how you say you step out, you're advocate and you stand for so many things.

Also, I think you guys as a family have done that, right? Like, you've made a conscious decision to be, to stand in your truth about private things, relationship, you're your marriage, your surrogacy. I mean, so many things about your life. You've been on the front. lines kind of like presenting as hey guys this is okay it's okay it happens to everybody you know what i mean and you don't have to throw your children out you know if they if they if they're not exactly what how you imagine them to be um talking to people and they're like i just i mean what will what will what will my family say what my church say what will these people say and i'm like that's your child

You mean of trans, or any type? Trans kids, queer kids, family of doctors, kid wants to be an engineer, and it's like, this isn't life and death. Yeah. Still your baby. Yeah. Love them.

And love them, support them. And you're supposed to be the sanctuary. Yeah. Not the hell that they're escaping. Yeah. But it could be literally about anything. Yeah. And right is right and wrong is wrong.

And to me it's not that hard, but I understand when people don't. Yeah, because there is a price. You may not work again. Your life may be threatened. Your family's lives may be threatened. And you may not be well-versed enough to lead the charge, but there's other ways of participating in resistance. You know, I talk about leading from the front, leading from the middle. You could be an organizer, keeping all of us together in the middle. You can be pushing from the back and holding the line. You don't have to always be front-facing. But in this day and age of performative activism, it's like if you didn't post it, it's not happening. In our situation, because of, I don't want to hear from the FBI anymore about which group we're on a hit list on. I move differently.

And you may not see or hear about every move, but you know me, you know my heart. I think my history speaks for itself. and my reputation speaks for itself. But also, I needed to get better. You know, when they say you got to play your auction and then masked on first and then... Man, so living this way was literally eating away at your body. Yeah, like, I can't be in that state all the time.

You know, and I don't have control of every situation. Like, El Bug was on your show. Lauren, Lauren, L. Bug. We love El Bug. I watched that episode. like, oh, gems. And I was hitting, Lauren, I'm like, yo, when you said this, this and that, she's like, okay, I'm going to come over and we're going to sit in your backyard and we're going to talk about this.

What was it? Well, it's about like the control element, the need for control and feeling like you always have to chime in or offer advice. And is the advice really for the other person or is it for you to have some control, some semblance of control, trying to control situations? We talked about that in a high episode with her? Whatever you guys talked about, that's what led to that. Yeah. It led to that. And she was like, unless they specifically ask for your opinion, don't offer it.

People need to come to their truth, how they come to it. And it's not up to us to steer them in any one direction. Because then we have to get into our need for control. What is that about? You know what I mean? I love that you saw our conversation. I mean, I know you know her and you have a relationship with her. But I love that it sparked another conversation.

Yeah. That literally. It sparked a lot of conversations. She was there for a few hours. Wow. And just there's a wisdom that she has, has gained from her life. Yeah. That she has to, you know, she has so much to offer.

And you really, oh. It was my first one of my favorites. Yeah, for sure. I learned so much from that. Somebody was just asking me the other day about like, they always asked, what's your favorite anyway? I'm like, I can't say. It's really hard to.

It's just, we're all just trying, man. And we're all just like, I'm trying to do a show. She's trying to survive her situation and she's learned so much along the way. And to me, like, that's all we could do is show up with what we have to offer on that day, share our experiences in a way that we hope lands in a positive way for someone else. I mean, well, none of us should be having to suffer in silence or feel like you're suffering alone. Like, no one could possibly understand this. It's like it helps to talk about it.

You know, whether it's like sparked from a podcast. It's like, I think I need help with this. How do you move through the world? How do you get up every day? What does joy look like to you? What does justice look like to you? Like, how? Do you have tools?

You know what I mean? And it's crazy because we have to learn those and ask those questions for ourselves. But then you take you, for instance, or any of us who are moms. Now you also have to do it as a parent. And you as a mom. You as a mother, I think, is an interesting topic because, no, you're really a lovely mother. Like, you worked so hard to be a mother and you're like this amazing mother, not only to Kavia, but to all of your kids, your bonus children.

I don't know what you call them. Do you call them stepkids, just your kids? The kids. They're just the kids. But, I mean, you worked to be a mother. It wasn't just the easy. For some women, it's too easy. It's like they get pregnant somebody can flirts with them and they're pregnant.

Like, you really worked for that and struggled. And then you do it in such a. meaningful, intentional kind of way. Just watching you with Kav. And I just wonder what it's changed for you, what you've learned about yourself, just becoming a mom. Well, you know, they watch every single thing.

Yeah. Right? Like Kav said the other day, why do you wear wigs all the time? I was like, well, Mommy goes to work and I have to be different characters. And sometimes I wear wigs to try it out before I commit to the look.

She was like, oh. But in her mind, why wasn't I happy with how I looked when I preached that to her? You know what I mean? I'm like, I love your girls. Oh my gosh, your hair is so beautiful. And she was like, yeah, I think your hair is beautiful too. How come you got a wig on?

You know what I mean? She's going to check you. She's going to check me, boo. And like there was one day, it was me, her and D driving the car. And I was like, oh, can you wear your hair like half up, half down? Like, that's like one of my favorite looks. And she was like, I don't really want to do that. And I was like, oh, come on, she was like, I thought it was my hair.

And he goes, but I'm teaching her how to advocate for herself and have agency over her own body. And, you know, it's her hair. Who cares? It's not like, you know. But that figuring out like, when do you like force your will on your child and when do you offer options? Just trying to find those balances. Yeah. And also, you know, she's very much a leader at home.

But at school, she can follow the crowd and helping her find her voice. I'm like, you know you don't have to do that just because your friend told you to. Yeah. Well, I want her to play with me at recess. I was like, ooh, it starts early. You know, do this so we can be friends. Do that so I can love you. Do this, you know.

And it's like, it seems like, oh, it's harmless, you know, but it's a pattern. where you start just being... People-pleasing? Shapeshifting to fit in and shape-shifting and doing whatever, people-pleasing to get the invite, to have access. And it's like, oof, once you start,

it's hard to stop. She's so great, though. She's awesome. Do you ever worry about her? Because I look at, like, famous kids, Blue Ivy and North, and I see the way people talk to these children. Children, and they have so many people

have opinions about children. So many opinions. Do you worry about that for you? Even Zaya, because she's been, such a like she's a poster child somewhat at this point

like do you have I don't know concerns or regrets of being having them so public or

Zaya that was her choice she did not like people dead naming her and we were like we can correct people

but it kind of opens up a whole other can of worms and she was like I want them to use my name and

we were like okay well these are this is how we could do this, but it's really going to open up a whole can of worms. Like you can't put back. Put it back. And she was very determined. And so that sort of opened the door for her speaking out and being very clear about her identity

and her confidence and comfort in it. And we support her being her full true self. Yeah. We would have probably been more comfortable where, you know, she waited a couple years. But it's years of her parents doing a ton of interviews where they're speaking of her with a name that she does not recognize. And so I respect it. I absolutely respect it. And every kid is different.

Like every child is different. And, you know, it is what it is. And you rally. You know what I mean? you offer support. Like, Kav, because I had talked so much about my infertility, and we were so overjoyed and so many people, like strangers, wanted me to be pregnant so badly. And I remember there, we were on our way to some event in New York. And I was, you know, I think I was in the middle of an IVF cycle. And I looked two months pregnant, like, or second semester pregnant. And people, like,

the page six was like, she's. pregnant and people were so happy. And it led to a miscarriage. You know, it didn't lead to, obviously it didn't lead to a live birth. And so when she was finally born and home, I was like, I want to share with people that, you know, keep hope alive and here's our, here's our beautiful baby. And this is the route I had to go. And these are the reasons. And then she just had such funny faces. I know. She's such a good personality. You know. She's such a good personality. You know. And now it's, she does it on her own. And it's like, we're like, Kavi want to post this?

No. Okay. And it's less than what it was, obviously, when she was little. Yeah. It's really her choice. And usually she chooses, like, she doesn't want to. No. We respect it.

Yeah. Keep it pushing. Hey, guys, today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet, Florida Sportsbook. If you haven't signed up yet for Hard Rock Bet, there has never been a better time than right now to do that. New signups can double their winnings on their first 10 bets, maximum $50. That's right.

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Seminole tribe of Florida in Florida, offered by Seminole Hard Rock Digital LLC and other states must be 21 or older and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, or Virginia to play. Terms and conditions apply. Conserned about gambling. In Florida, call 1833-play-wise. In Indiana, if someone you or you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800-9 with it. Gambling problem? Call 1-800, Gambler, in Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, or Virginia. All right, what about marriage? What have you learned about marriage? Do you don't know shit about marriage? Is that true even now? How many years are you 10? You're plus

11, 11 years. But it's like, marriage is this living, breathing thing that you have to feed and nurture. And you don't always have the time to be great at it. And on those days, as you're trying to take shortcuts are probably the days you were supposed to suck it up and offer more grace and offer more kindness or companionship. And people are like, oh, marriage goals. Other than us being honest about our marriage, you got to figure out what works for your marriage. And each one is very unique. Like, I don't know anybody who has a marriage like ours. And it's not because we're, you know, whatever. It's like we're, we're. I don't know what that was.

Like, you know, whatever people, whatever people like to think about it. But, like, we're very, we're, our schedules, where we miss each other a lot. Mm-hmm. And we miss each other a lot. So, like, our time together is like, literally legs, like all intertwine. Like, we are physically touching all the time, you know, joined at the hip. And then I'm in Rome for three weeks and, you know, whatever. So our level of communication had.

to improve. You know what I mean? And we try not to hang out with other couples who don't like each other. Oh, that's a good. Because that shit is contagious. Yeah.

You know what I mean? You get, and that, you know, previously, there might be circles where they're like, ugh, this bitch. It's like this nigga right here. Like, ugh. And then you kind of fall in

because that's how you guys are communicating as friends. Like you're complaining as communication. And then you go home, you're like, ugh. You know what I mean? Because that's just what you were with You know, when we talk about vacations,

you know, we've all vacation together. But you've got to have other couples who are at least on the same page. Obviously, your relationship's going to be different. But I need you to like this motherfucker. Like, don't come on vacation and you want to complain. You know what I mean? Shit.

Like, I like this man. That is contagious. Yeah. Like, so surrounding yourself with couples. You actually like your husband, right? I like him a lot. Like, he's literally my favorite person. Oh my God.

That's so cute. Like, we talk all day long. But it's like half the time we talk in memes. and gifts. Yeah. You know what I mean? But that's how it has to start, though. It starts with that, right?

Yeah. Like, we were in Japan for two weeks and just having, like, adventures. You know? Just the two of us. Have the time of our lives. I mean, granted, we ran into Michael B. Jordan and Stilo, but. Oh, not bad. Yeah.

Hang out with them for New Year's. But, like, we had our own adventure. It was great. You think that's a big key? It's like getting it right. It's just picking somebody that you, like, get along with. You know, like, if you get into an argument, with your friend.

Yeah. If you really, really like them, you get over it. Like, you figure out how to communicate through, you know,

the tough spots. Because, like, half of our arguments, like, I'll be so pissed. But then I want to tell him something or I got a joke.

I'm like, okay, we have to make up just so I can get this joke off. But I don't know. That's so cute. We have figured it out for us. And he adores you

the same way that you're doing him. Like, when I look up, up and he's looking at me and it's like that's so cute it's kind of like the best because it's like the person I want whose eyes I want on me you know what I mean and uh that's pretty great I like it

he was going to miss the premiere because you know his coaches his college coach is being honored at Marquette and he you know he was supposed to be there and for the goat yeah he's going to miss the go premiere and he's in it like you know and then he was like I'll be there.

And I was like, wait, he's in it too? Yeah, he's a voice. He's the voice. He's a voice. He's a lot of voices. There's a lot of voice. Who are the other voices besides?

I mean, Steph is a voice. He's the giraffe. Caleb McLaughlin. He's from Strangler Things. He's the main voice. Aaron Pierre, Jennifer Hudson, Jennifer Lewis, Nick Kroll.

There's a lot of people. Yeah, it's a stack cast. What a cute little concept, though, the goat. I think it's just so relatable. Yeah. And it's like this little goat who, you know, believes.

Believes. And the goat, it's like the goat, the movie is based on, loosely based on Steph's, you know, career. Because when I first met Steph, he was just, uh, it was his rookie year. And him and Aisha were, you know, joined at the hip, I mean, the same. They have been connected to the same. I was going to say that's probably a good couple for you guys to hang out with. Yeah, and we have randomly.

Like randomly. They seem like they really like each other. They very much like each other. Yeah. And they're very much in alignment. You know what I mean? So it's interesting to listen to the commentary. you're like, clearly you've never been around them.

And nobody loved Steph more than Aisha. I nobody love Aisha more than Steph. He's such a good egg. And he does a great job. He's a really great job as a voice actor. All right. So we have a couple of IRL questions for you and an IRL bowl so we can get into your real life philosophies.

But first we have a voice note. This is our boost mobile voice note where someone comes in, leaves you a voice message or a question. Okay. I don't really know what it is. We have to listen to it first. Hey, Gab. It's Shy.

girl how do you protect your boundaries see i'm a thug but i'm a nice one and i forgive way too much so i want to know how are you forgiving but still making sure that people don't cross you because it never gave dormant for real for real it never gave door mat i feel like we talked about this a little bit in miami um a couple weeks ago i had to learn that When it comes to access opportunities, money, that people will always be cheering for you. But if their access, money, whatever, is threatened, that they can turn on you. And when you watch people that you thought you could trust, like, show what really matters. And it's not you?

It's devastating. and you realize, like, I had no boundaries. Because, like, you know me. Like, if we ride, like, we are riding to the wheels fell off. Like, I will go to battle. Like, that's just how I move with my friends. If we're close enough where, like, I'll physically fight somebody for you, then it is what it is.

There are no boundaries. You know what I mean? But I've had to figure out how to love you from across the street. Like, but also part of having boundaries is if you're in my life and, you know, People make mistakes, things happen. And you can't own your shit, you have no place in my life. I cannot do no accountability. I can't.

I don't need like a whole operation. I just, oh, my bad. You know what? My bad. Sorry. Sorry. And it's like, it's really hard for some people, by the way. It's like impossible.

We had this conversation on set the other day. And I'm like, it's a scene. These are fake people. These people do not exist. And like the guys were like, no, he apologized. I said no. The apology was, and for that, I apologize. He was wrong for the whole thing. Why do you, why, you guys don't hear like the, I apologize for that when the issue is the whole thing was wrong. Why do you have to qualify your apology? Why can't you just admit to being wrong? Why can't this character admit that he lied?

Well, he didn't lie. I'm like, well, he didn't tell the truth when asked. What do you call that? And the omission of the truth is, it's a fallacy, it's a lie. Same shit. Yeah. Why does it like what? These are fake characters. Why won't you guys? Like, what is the issue?

And I'm like, what do you think happens inside when you just own your shit? And then we got on this conversation and it dawned on me when people refuse to be accountable, especially when they want to gaslight you. They want to control you. They want to control your movements. They want to control your your body. they want to control your reactions and they want to control how you ultimately see them.

And that's so devious. It's so manipulative and it's dark. And I'm just too old to be dealing with this. And it's not uncommon. Oh, it's super common. And you let it slide because that's not a big deal. But then it starts to add up and it's like, do you, you just never want to own your shit?

I can't be around you because I can't trust you. You'll lie about, I saw you at Burger King. And you're like, I went to McDonald's. What is wrong with you? Now you're like, that's so, like, I don't want you around. So honesty and accountability is about, is a, is a, is the bearerest of minimums. Yeah. And, and then also, everybody doesn't need to be everywhere.

Everyone doesn't need free access to every part of your life, especially people who cannot be trusted with your truth. And if everything that happens to me has to be somehow. how quantified for you in terms of money, in terms of opportunity, in terms of access, that's not a friend. That's, I feel like it's constantly, everything is transactional. It's a burden. Yeah. And so I've had to learn how to create boundaries and understand what it is and want to understand what it is.

And I was trying to make fetch happen with a lot of people. And I was talking about that the other day Because you put people in boxes Yeah and it's okay And some friends are like your friends that you have For play dates Or there's friends that you have That are just a good time

Yeah, like great let's go to the bar Let's have a drink I think what people fuck up is that you try to take a friend That's there for a good time And you try to make them Your person Or you try You miscategorize people in your life

And so it's important to kind of know where they're there and know what their role is in your life I think is also an important thing with boundaries. You learn the second you say no, who is really there for what. People's reaction to no, like just a no.

If they lose their shit, who, that, I mean, I don't know what other kind of sign you need. They reveal themselves. But also, like, I don't say yes to everything. I used to feel like I have to be everywhere and do everything and I got to be I got to be everything for everyone, and it left nothing for me.

Mm-hmm. So just learning through trial and error, it's life. You're never going to get it right. But just understanding that, like, you don't have to say yes to everything. You don't have to be everyone's everything because you will end up at a deficit. Hey, guys, support for this podcast is brought to you by Walden University. Have you ever thought to yourself, what if I could go after what I actually want and I could really make a difference? Well, you are not alone.

And this is exactly why I want to tell you about Walden University. For over 50 years, Walden has helped working adults, like you, get the W with the knowledge, the skills, and everything you need to build the future that you want. And you can make a difference where it matters most. If you've been waiting for the right moment, this is it. Head to waldenu.edu and take that first step. Walden University set a course for change, certified to operate by Shiv. Okay, in real life, let's do Ball. This is our IRL bowl of questions in real life, Gabrielle Union.

Let's see what you get. And our IRL bowl is brought to you by Walton University. Hmm. Is it good or no? Well, there's the real answer. And then the one I'm going to, I would say. I would like the real one. I cannot.

Okay. What is the question? You, because you know the answer. Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm in Alec Lamoma. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr.

had both been assassinated, and Black America was out of breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia, at Martin's Almermata, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history, Martin Luther King Sr., and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution,

I mean, people would die. In 1968, the murder of Dr. King, traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind. Listen to the A-building on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bowen-Yin.

And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys' Five Rings podcast, and the lead-up to the Milan. Concord Tina, 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Boone. Hey, Mel. Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt. Hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie.

Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to two guys, five rings on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What is one thing about love you've had to unlearned? That it's earned.

that it needs to be forever for it to count. February is the month of love. Whether you're in a relationship, casually dating, or proudly single, it's a great time to reflect on yourself and what you want. I'm Hope Woodard, host of the Boysover podcast, and each week this month,

we're looking at love from every angle. I don't know how to tell my partner, like, what I want in bed. The thing about romantic fiction, I would say more than any other genre of culture is that it's always put women first. My marriage stopped making sense. The connection started to feel off.

The behavior started to feel different. This February, get in touch with yourself by listening to Boy Sober. That's B-O-Y-S-O-B-E-R. I'm like, I would love to not hate the man. I'm sleeping with. I don't know what that's about. Listen to Boy Sober on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Segregation in the day integration at night. When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules. We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like stepping on another world. Inside Charlie's place, black and white people danced together,

but not everyone was happy about it. You saw the KKK? Yeah, they were dressed up in their uniform. The KKK set out to raid Charlie, take him away from here. Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush you. From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch, and visit Myrtle Beach, comes Charlie's place.

A story that was nearly lost to time. Until now. Listen to Charlie's Place on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What do you do to decompress after a long day? The answer I will share is that I like to sit or lay in silence. Like I just need 15 minutes of no sound. Do you really do this every day? Yeah.

Yeah. Usually it's after Kov goes to bed. So it's like she goes to bed at 7.30. We increased it an hour. So once she goes to bed, I feel like I've lost the war. And I just get in my bed and I lay there in silence. And do you respects it? Oh, it's like a known thing in the house.

Yeah. Like, I just need a minute to just. Yeah. Yeah. And for me, silence is so golden. I can hear my own thoughts. It just gives me a chance to just calm down. I must try.

And then I step out on the balcony, dot, dot, dot. And do whatever else you need to do for yourself. All right, take one more. Let's do one more while we pick. Pick a good one. If you could instantly master a skill, what would it be? Listen, if I could sing. Look how you just lit up.

Like sang. Oh, sing. Like, I, like, practiced for, like, eight months to sing this one song for our anniversary. And it was the hardest. I mean, the respect I have for singers. Wait, what did you sing again? Shania Twain. Oh, that's right.

And because it was, it's a joke. Like, it was one of the first, you know, when you meet somebody. Tell this story for somebody who doesn't know. I did not take him seriously. You know what I mean? Like, I was doing the most, and I just didn't take him seriously. So I kind of tortured him initially. I made him listen to the Jersey Boys soundtrack, like, on repeat.

I was playing, like, country music hits. So one of the first songs I played for him when we met was, like, Shania Twain, you're still the one. And then it just became this reoccurring joke. Like, I rap a movie. He hires, like, a choir and a band to sing, you're still the one and give me flowers, like, before I head to the airport to come back. call me. Oh my God. That's so cute. And yeah. And so I practiced with a vocal coach and then got in the studio and laid the track with like a full band. And I wanted to do, you know, do it special. But it's really hard. And I, that's not a skill I have. It's not a skill. But you would never,

I would never shut up. I'd be like, Angie. That's why you can't sing. So I got didn't give me that gift. I would be the same way. Oh, I'd be obnoxious. That's funny because Valentine's Day is coming up. You guys are big, like, you're festive. You do events. Like, what is Valentine's Day? What is the key to romance in your house to you? Valentine's Day got co-opted, and it's been co-opted, our whole relationship because it falls over All-Star Weekend. But he, like, he does Valentine's Day throughout the year.

So he'll send me flowers just because. Or he'll write me a poem. Or he'll just send the most beautiful letter. And you're like, who are you? Like, who are you right now? Like, for real. And it works. It works, honey.

It works. You know, like, it works. And what about you? What is your love language? Like, how do you show romance? Oh. I mean, his thing is physical touch. So, easy.

Just cut to it. That's romantic, right? He's like, great. I love your, I love your version of romance. So whatever clearly is happy. Okay. On a scale of 1 to 10, how happy are you, Gab? Ooh, today I'm a 10.

Really? I love that. Yeah. And average, what would you say? I'm now in the last few months, like eight. Like, I average, like, a solid eight. Since learning how to be peaceful and... Since learning, like, since teaching my body not to stay in a state of terror. Okay.

Like, I find the joy in everything, you know? Like, there's generally speaking, I get anxious before I do press runs because I'm honest. And I'm going to say something that's going to go viral. and then I got to deal with that. And if you ask, I'm generally speaking, tell the truth, except what I really do to decompress. And you just have to deal with your truth being out there and however people are going to tweak it.

And he goes, just have fun. He's like, it's fun. This is what we dreamt of. Have fun. Who said that? Dee. Oh, D. And I was like, so this morning, it's like 5 a.m.

I'm like, I'm up. I didn't sleep. But I'm having fun. And it's been fun. And knowing that it was ending, the day was going to end with you. In real life, what should people care about less? Oh, what other people think of them? Yeah, yeah.

Because you will, I've seen so many people create a small life for themselves just so people don't have something to say. And you watch dreams that you know they have never, they never even try because of the noise. and because of this, because of that, and they just, their lives end up small. I think that's probably way more common. It's very common.

Yeah, for sure. Or you do the safe thing, but not the thing you're passionate about. And you just kind of give up and for what? And for what? Yeah, for what? Somebody is like, don't take advice from people who've never done what you've done. Yeah. Which is why, you know, I'm very glad Steph and I, she never took my advice.

Because I was putting my bullshit onto them. You know what I mean? I was putting my fear. about marriage. This is before they were married. What was it? I don't know this. One day I'll tell you this full story,

but I offered some stupid advice, kind of like what the word would say. No, we were at a party. Oh. And I was like, let me tell you how can I go, because of course I've been drinking. And luckily they were like, okay, thanks, Gab.

And then didn't take my advice and they're happy and successful. And they did their family route, their way at their pace, what worked for them. But had he listened to me or she had listened to me, like they wouldn't be the curries that we know.

And I needed to shut the fuck up. Most people need to shut the fuck up. You know what I mean? Like, shut the fuck up. You literally don't know what you're talking about. Yeah. And we center ignorance in our decision making. And it's the quickest route to have a small life

that you will never find Julian. Did you even try? You didn't even try. You didn't even try. You got to try. You know we have Tisha Campbell coming up. And what's it next week or the week after? And I know, I don't know why her name keeps coming up.

Like I just had Tasha Smith on who said Tisha, the beginning of Tasha's career, let her stay at her sleep in her house. And she showed her what was possible. But she also had an impact in your life. Yeah. No, I mean, when I first got into Hollywood, I'm so lucky that my OGs took my sanity and protecting me very seriously. Who are your OGs?

Tisha, Tashina, and Regina King. And they just took that, their privilege, and they put a bubble around me and so many of us. And Tisha and her former spouse invited me and my former spouse. They have no names. They will never, they will not be named. up to their, up to their cap, their house in the, in Big Bear or whatever. And she recognized that I was struggling.

And she was like, Gab, are you seeking therapy? Have you ever had a black therapist, a black woman therapist? And I was like, if it's out of copay, like, if it's out of my, you know, I can't afford that. Because you're a young actress at this time? I'm a young actress, yeah. And I'm like, I can't afford out of pocket. Like, it's got to be, you know. And she was like, that will never be an excuse for you.

She was like, I got it. And she paid for the first, I mean, it was a lot of sessions. Wow. With the therapist I still have to this day. She paid for her? She paid for it. She paid for me to go repeatedly, like a lot of sessions. Like a lot of lot.

What did she see in you? What did she see that she saw that, like, I was circling the drain in it. And she didn't want that for me. And she just constantly held my hand through. different life transitions, and she just, she just wasn't interested in watching me fail. You know what I mean? And that's just the person that she is.

And she's done it for so many people. Oh, my God, I keep hearing. Jennifer Lewis has done it for so many people. Like Jennifer will be like, you know, for a very long time she called me, Bobby, bitch, Bobby! You're going to be a bitch, be a lovable bitch. Say it with love, damn it.

But she'll pull your coattails. And they offer, they use. they use their privilege as protection. You know? That's good to hear. Not everybody was doing that. You know, there's some people who are like, burn. You know, like, fail, bitch, fail.

But they didn't. And Tisha, she extended so much grace and kindness and opened her wallet. Wow. It wasn't just like, you should get therapy. Good luck to you. She was like, nope, there's no excuses. You're going to get the help that you need.

And she just paid for it. Just because why? Why did she think that? She saw something in me, but she's just a kind, very thoughtful person. That's amazing. And, you know, like, Black Hollywood, you know, it's its own family, you know. And she wasn't an auntie. Like, she was in her 20s, you know, she's not that much older than me.

This is like her around McMartin time? Is she, like, happening at the, yeah, she's like. She's Tisha Campbell. Yeah. You know what I mean? She's Tishman, Muckin'A gamble. And Tashina was Tishina McBunkn Arnold. Yeah.

Regina King was Regina King. And they just weren't interested. in watching us fall into traps, you know, get set up. Like just, they just were like, no, not her, you know, not any of them that they had the ability to reach. And what about Regina? Regina is like my heart. Like I'm almost like, I don't know why I was about to get teary eye, but she's just been my, she's just been my heart. And it's hard watching her heart get ripped out of her chest.

And we all grew up with little Ian and watching him at each milestone and it's hard. And you just try to be there for people in any way that they allow you to be. Can't dictate anyone else's grief. You can just be there. But I think there's a reason we all feel so strongly about her because she feels so strongly about us. And she showed the fuck up. you know what I mean? Like there's people who are like,

oh, I'm cool with such and such. Oh, I'm cool. Like if I see you, it's love. But like, you know. But how, what does that mean? She showed up. Like, for, what does that? A girl, I know you're under the bed.

Like, I'm coming. I'm coming to get you. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not going to let you suffer. I'm not interested in watching you suffer. I'm interested in being a guiding hand. And to offer safety and protection and guidance. Mm-hmm.

You're just really about that life. You know, her and her sister, Rina. Like, I don't know. And then you get to know everyone's families. And then, you know, like, but that's, you know, and then I try to be that same OG to the next generation. You know what I mean? Like I've had that relationship with Kiki, you know, with Kiki Palmer and, you know,

young folks. Like when Meg the Stallion got on the scene and like my little cousin, sweetie, we call her Diti. But like, if I got to pull your coat. if I'm or I got to reach out and be like, this is my number, you can always reach me, ain't shit that could happen that I haven't been through. You know, I'm here. Yeah.

You know, you just have to return the favor. I'm sure you had an OG and then you offer that same thing. Like, I don't have to see you every day to know that you're a safe place in the storm. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's beautiful. Yeah. I think the thing with Regina, because she was on the pod too,

and I obviously don't know her as well as you do, but we just love her. Like you just, you know what I'm saying? Even from outside who don't have an intimate relationship with her like you do, it's like to watch them. Anybody's heart be ripped out like that is very painful to see. So as her friend, I can only imagine how. And there's a reason you just see this outpouring because she has poured into so many people and didn't, wasn't keeping score, wasn't like, well, I did this for you.

It's like she came out, like one of her first directing gigs, unless it was her first, was on being Mary Jane. And, you know, everyone has a moment And I was having a little moment, a little bratty moment And she came to my trailer, she has a little thing as sunflower seeds And she was like, you know, hand me some sunflower seeds And she's like, basically cut the shit

Cut the shit. I was like, I'm going to cut the shit. And you, sometimes you need that too. You know, it's not always, you know, moonlight and roses. Sometimes you need, you know, an OG to be like, cut the shit. Have some sunflower seeds. Is that really what she said?

No, it's dead ass. Like what she said. And we just sat on my, you know, the soup of my trailer and talked it out. What were you going through? What was the thing? I mean, it was, you know, it could have been anything. I know it wasn't, you know, life or death. Yeah.

And, you know, sometimes you get a little puffed up, number one on the call sheet. And sometimes you need to be reminded that this is a business and you don't get to hijack the whole operation because you're in a mood. No one person is more important than the whole. and cut the shit. Cut the shit, Gab. Have some sunflower seeds. I'm going to bust that out on somebody.

Because no one can turn down. Bryn't even think about bringing sunflower seats to set. Okay? You'd be like, don't even think about it. I love that though. Yeah. Being Mary Jane was

when you look at the tent poles of your career, do you look at that as like super meaningful? It really brought me back, you know, because you go through periods of like you work all the time to like not working all the time. You work all the time. You work all the time, not working on the time. And after I didn't get scandal, which, you know, let's be clear, I was not close, close. I was maybe down to like a handful. I just thought that was, that's the only opportunity we're going to get to play a character like that. And I was so sad that there were just so few possibilities. Like people weren't writing black female led shows. And then I met with Mara. It was, I don't even know if I've ever said this publicly, but I met with Mara and Salim Akil on the day that Whitney died. Wow. And Whitney had been so supportive of me.

Whitney Houston? Yeah. Wow. And it was just like shocking. But when, you know, like it was, it was, the whole thing was just surreal. And you just see all these people, the phones are going off. I think we were at the Four Seasons restaurant and you just see all these people's phones going off

and, you know, of course it's like, it was like around the Grammys. And it was like, this is surreal. And it hadn't been that long before I was, I was hosting the E.T honors. And there was like a glitch. You know, when you're hosting things, you got to go out and, you know, do the, you know,

schmooze the crowd. And I come out and Whitney stands up and is like, giving me this like, solo, standing ovation. Just her? Just her. And, you know, it just gave me like just enough to be like, okay, like, I can do this. It's going to be okay. I'm not just out here by myself. I'm with my community. And there's people who cheer for me. And that person happened to be went to Houston right in the front row. It was just it was just a surreal day. And that was the day I got presented with being Mary Jane. Wow. And it was such a gift, you know, and to be able to play her for so many years and to have a destination. You know, as actors, you're like, I don't know where the next, you know, check is going to come from. I don't know if that last job might have been the last job. And so to be able to grow with the character and do all the fun, crazy stuff that Mary Jane got to do and work with all of my friends.

So it was, I don't know, it was a great period of in my life while in the midst of crazy chaos. I love that. Yeah. You don't think about how much something could, I guess it's just what's for you is for you and what's not. because I could imagine the scandal thing. I mean, everyone in their mother was up for scandal. But like, you're like, that is my only opportunity. I have not read anything like that.

There probably will never be anything like that. I've been in the industry 20 years at that point or so. And it's like, okay, I guess we got one every generation. And you killed it. I killed it. And I was flying home. I love that you know you killed it. No, that's like, listen, I am Mary Jane.

Like Braun called me Mary Jane for a very long time. He still does. It's fine. But no, that show really gave me deeper roots in pop culture, in the community. And just as an artist, I got to make a ton of mistakes. And I got to correct them. As a woman. As I was going through so many things.

And I got to act a lot of that out. You know, when it didn't feel safe to cry or to throw a tantrum in real life. Mary Jane could handle it the way she wanted to handle it. Yeah. You know? That's pretty great. But I loved him.

Yeah. I loved that. We loved it too. All right. Well, before we go, another hour out question. He's in the bowl. You didn't pick it,

but I'll always ask you. If God were to text you today, what would it say? You got this. That's it. You got this? I got this. He got it, really?

He got it. Yeah. You got this. Why, do you normally feel like you don't? you know, you don't know. I don't know if I'm hitting it out of the park every day. You know, you don't know. But like having your faith and just knowing, like as long as you have peace, you know that God is in you.

You know what I mean? The absence of peace is like you haven't made space for God and his grace, their grace. I think of God as genderless. But like, you know, so peace is the presence of God to me. And when you don't feel that piece, we haven't done, we haven't taken enough active steps to create space for his grace. And so the message was what? You got this. You got this.

Because he got this or they got this. They. You know, depends on how, you know, a lot of people use the feminine. So, you know. I love that. Gabrielle Union, everybody. In real life. Hey, this is Gabrielle Union in real life.

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