Joe and Jada - Angie Martinez IRL - Tisha Campbell: Living Life Freely Without Your Mask

Episode Date: February 18, 2026

Actress and author Tisha Campbell joins Angie Martinez to talk about “unmasking” and learning to live her life unapologetically. Then, Tisha explains how she went from being a dramatic actress in movies such as ‘Little Shop of Horrors’ and ‘School Daze’ directed by Spike Lee, to sitcoms such as ‘Martin’ and ‘My Wife and Kids,’ to her new venture into the standup comedy world. She details her journey as a mother, and the joys of having a child on the spectrum. Tisha answers what love means to her at this point in her life, and what she is looking for in a partner. Finally, she answers a fan’s question, and Angie asks some ‘In Real Life’ questions. Visit your nearest Boost Mobile store or https://promo.boostmobile.com/webuilt...Visit Walden https://waldenu.edu to learn more! All lines provided by ‪Hard Rock BetSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. 1969, Malcolm and Martin are gone. America is in crisis. At a Morehouse college, the students make their move. These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson, locked up the members of the Board of Trustees, including Martin Luther King's Senior.

It's the true story of protests and rebellion in black American history that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Manilic Lamouba. Listen to the A building on the I-Hearton. Cart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Over the last couple years, didn't we learn that the folding chair was invented by black people because of what happened in Alabama?

This Black History Month, the podcast, Selective Ignorance with Mandy B, unpacked black history and culture with comedy, clarity, and conversations that shake the status quo. The Crown Act in New York was signed in July of 2019, and that is a bill that was passed to prohibit discrimination based on hairstyles associated with race. To hear this and more, listen to Selective Ignorance with Mandy B from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Bowen-Yang.

And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, and the lead-up to the Milan Cortina-26 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bob, how now. Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Kirkie.

Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in. in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What if mind control is real? If you can control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm still waiting for that to come.

I have hope. Yeah. That somebody will love me past Gina. Hmm. So. I'm open. You feel like that got in the way, Gina got in the way. I don't think Gina itself got in the way.

Their perception of you or... I think my perception of our self may have gotten in the way. Thanks for watching, guys. Today's episode is brought to you by Boost Mobile. For over 40 years, today's guest has been a true multi-hyphenate in film, television, from early roles in Little Shop of Horrors and Spike Lee School Days to her iconic run as Gina on Martin, one of the highest rated sitcoms of the whole 1990s.

her career and her characters are still quoted, clipped, and trending decades later. She now leads in this new movie, Be Happy, a Mary J. Blige production on Lifetime. She's back to stand-up comedy. She's a legend and a boss. Welcome Tisha Campbell, the IRL. I'm excited to be here, boom. I just love you. I love you, too.

I said this to you when you walked in, I was like, if you can't have a good time with Tisha Campbell, you are the problem. What goes wrong with you? You are the problem. Because every time I have ever been in your presence, we have good times. And the energy, your energy is never, it's always good. Thank you.

I'll tell my mama you said so. She did good. Is your energy always good or it's just when I see it? Hell, no. No, I only show that part to the closest people to me. But for the most part, I'm like a dark side. You know, not really a dark side, but I wear a mask so much. I've been trained to wear a mask.

much. And when I say mask, I'm talking about, if you think of the drama and comedy mask, I'm always wearing the smile. Because, you know, when I leave my house, if I leave my gate, I'm at work. Like, people are going to take pictures, want to talk to me. So soon as I leave out my house, I'm at work. So I'm always here. And it's just really interesting that nowadays, it's a little harder for me to wear the mask. It was a good friend named Adrienne Johnson, who I did house party with. Love AJ. Yes.

AJ's super brilliant. She was one of the people who told me to unmask, take my mask off because I was always like this. And I'm just learning. AJ's like a life coach, too, right? She is. She's an actress and a life coach. She actually went to school to Spellman.

I think she made her, she willing to be a medical doctor. But, you know, made that turn. Anyway, she was the one that took the mask off. Is that the first person who ever said that to? That's the first person who ever said that to me. It was 2016. Easter. Were you offended? No. No. No, I was begging her because she was life coaching a bunch of people that day and it was an Easter party that I was having at my house. And I was like, I'm next because she would play this game, salt or pepper, mom or dad, you know, and in between she would read you for filth, right? So I was like, I'm next, I'm next. And she was like, ah. So then she told me the truth. She was like, take the mask off. And it was crazy because it literally, figuratively felt like, everything just shattered onto the ground.

And I saw all of these people that happened to be in my house that day. A lot of them I didn't even know. And I was like, you know, with the Wizard of Oz, when they turn into color, when the black and white turns out, that's what it was like. I opened my eyes and I was like, oh, everybody's not nice. Because I'm a type of person that believes in a good man first. Always have been. But what that does is it doesn't leave. room for discernment.

And so at that moment, my eyes opened, I was awake. And I couldn't put the mask back on. It was a little harder to do, even if I'm doing it for the betterment of everybody else to make them comfortable. All she said was take off the mask. That's what she said. But what did that mean to you? Like, what did you hear when she said that? Wake up.

You don't have to be on for everybody. You have to put yourself first. And that's something that I was not used to doing. I always put everybody else. Since I was a little kid, you had said earlier in the intro that I've been in this business for 40 years. I've actually been in this business for 50 years. I started when I was three. Wow.

50-something years. 54 years. Yeah. And I started when I was three. And since I was three years old, well, since I was five, You've always been paying bills. I've been taking care of my family. I knew that I had this gift that God had given me.

I also was very aware and conscious as a child of how incredibly poor we really were. I mean, we was eating mani sandwiches for breakfast, lunch, and dinner sometimes, right? I grew up in Norke, New Jersey, in the projects. Not the Newark now. Yeah, no, not because Norke is fly right now. But Norke back in the day. But I was really very conscious and I wanted to help my family. And so this became how I could help them best along with, you know, singing and acting and whatever I was doing to help get us out of our circumstances.

So it meant that I couldn't do, I couldn't wear this mask anymore. I had to be true to myself. If I'm sad, be sad. if I'm angry, be angry. I can still be kind. But I had to take it off. And this was at a big age, right? You said this is like 10 years ago.

In 2016 is when it happened. Yeah, so 10 years ago. So you're in your 40s. Well, at first I got depressed because I didn't know how I was going to take the mask off. How am I going to do that when so many people are counting on me to be this girl? And it's interesting because that's kind of what this movie is about. And I was mad because I was like, who is this Cameron J. Ross writer all up in my business?

Who is this? Seeing me in real life. Right, right, right. And it really is about, you know, when you get to a certain age, a grown-ass woman, you start to realize that what you may have missed because you sacrifice so much for others. And that's where I was. And that's where this character is too.

Nice transition, Tisha. I know. That was crazy. That segway. I didn't know. I did tell y'all. But it really is true. And that's why I wanted to do this film.

Because it was really touching something right here and here in my soul. I love the trailer. I do want to talk about the film because I have a lot of questions about that. And also Mary is my sister. I love the whole. I'm very J-Vos. Yes. And it looks so delicious and fun.

I can't wait to see it. But I do want to stay in that moment for a second because she tells you take off the mask and you look around and you see the cracks in everybody. Because before what? You was looking at everybody with rose-colored glasses. I was. Uh-huh. That must have been very tricky in relationships. I was depressing when I first realized what I had been kind of doing to myself.

But what does that mean? Like in real life? Like what does that look like? So you have a friend or a partner. So I'm everything to everybody. Including especially victims. So I would take them on. I would help them.

But I was really everything to every. I was the cook. I was the chauffeur. I was the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker. I was everything to everyone. And I wasn't. My well was dry. And I had nothing else to give, even though I was running on empty.

I was running on fumes. And you've got to combine that with the fact that I have a child on the spectrum. So I'm running around here, whether I'm at work trying to be there for my coworkers, then I come home trying to be the best wife. And then there's on top of that, I got to take my kid to his different therapies. I have to negotiate with these people. sometimes you don't get therapists right away.

You have to, you know, deal with the meltdowns of autism. You have to deal with all of these things. And I was running around being, again, being everything for everybody but me. And this,

ugh. Girl, I feel you. So what it looked like after she told me to take the mask off and get back to that was depression because I didn't think that I could do it. I didn't think I could put myself first. And so I just started sleeping a lot. I didn't know that's what depression was. But I just couldn't stay awake. Like three o'clock or morning, three o'clock in

afternoon. It didn't matter. I would just pass out. I hear that a lot when people talk about depression. It shows up that way. Just wanting to be in the bed. Yeah. Yeah. Like anywhere at a restaurant. And you couldn't even know, and you didn't know why. I didn't know why. And then things changed. And I started to accept it that I couldn't operate like this no more. That is a major-ass life shift. It is. I hope somebody watching that feels that deeply because it's not a small thing you're talking about right here. It's like a major thing.

And I think a lot of women will understand that. In particular, yeah. Always give to everybody but ourselves. Yeah. We're always. And, you know, there's something lovely about that. And it's funny. It's beautiful. It is beautiful.

As long, but I think the piece that women miss is that you can be a giver, you could be empathetic, you could see people through roles, you can see the best in people even when they don't see it themselves. But if you don't have boundaries, girl, if you don't have boundaries. If you don't have boundaries and you don't cherish yourself. Like if you're that good of a human, you better cherish the fuck out of yourself. That part. It was my kids that taught me boundaries, believe you're not.

I bet. My kids taught me boundaries. My kids, because, okay, I grew up, a baby boomer raised me, right? So, you know, when you're raised by baby boomers, blood is thicker than water, family first, all of those things, not the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb. That's the real quote. But we were brought up, blood is thicker than water. And so my kids, both of them had a problem with a family member.

And I was like, oh, you guys, you got to fix it. They're a family. You got to fix it. And I'm like, yeah, you throwing us in the trauma. We don't want to do that. So here's what we're going to do. Like, they were like, mom, just kind of stay out of it. We'll fix it on our own time if we decide to fix it at all.

And I realized, I really am pushing them in the trauma. That's not cool. And so I've learned to just step back and, adjust for myself even when my kids taught me that because that's all I know. Man, that's so good, Tisha. As fact that your kids, how old were they when they had this conversation? I believe one was 20. So, and the other, he's eight years younger.

They were grown. They were old enough to know that you got to stop. And they understood who I am. am as a person. So you've had a pretty significant shift in your life in the past 10 years. I really have. Good for you. It is the most amazing time. I really, you have to really, joy is a verb. That's what my therapist said. And you got to work on joy. You got to make a decision to work on joy. And that's why I am in my life right now. You know, I'm working, I'm working towards it every single day. And that's what makes me happy. Yeah, I think sometimes

we think if we don't put ourselves first, if we don't put other people first, like we're not a good person. That part. Like, you could do both, actually. You actually could be an amazing human being. It doesn't mean you're selfish. It means yourself full.

Yeah. And that's okay. Yeah. It's actually smarter. It's a better way to love. Absolutely. Hey guys, Booth Mobile is proving that you do not have to overpay for great wireless. Unlock the savings with a $25 a month forever unlimited plan.

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Really? First of all, we just had Gabrielle Union on. Who told us that you paid for her therapy as a young woman in this business? I did. And I was like, well, why did she do that? And she said, I don't know. I think she just knew I needed it and I couldn't afford it. Well, let me just say this.

It was, I saw the potential in GAF. She was working her butt off, but I knew she was going to be even bigger than what we were witnessing at that moment. And so I want her to have support because this business can be so crazy. And so. You didn't even know the history of what she had been through? No. I she looked fine to me it wasn't like I saw something wrong it's just that I want her to be able to navigate this business you're not going to be unscathed but at least you could have some type of support yeah and so I paid for like 10 sessions 10 of her first sessions I really I said I really want you to see this therapist and you

mean a lot, you know, you're going to be big. What did you see in her? Why did you know that? I could tell. First of all, if I'm walking down the street, I could tell an artist from a mile away. Really? Yeah. How? That's a feeling. It's a feeling. I can, I can see an artist right away. And then I can also, you can see an it factor. Anybody can see an it factor. And she had it. She had that it factor, that X factor. And I knew she was going to be huge. I think it's God. God tells me who's going to be like that. Yeah. And you wanted to help her.

Yeah. And I, you know, I feel like I could see that I just think that she needed to be supported. And I like to support my sisters. I know. And then we had Tasha Smith on. Really? Tasha Smith said you were one of the first people that made her believe that she could do this. because you were one of the first examples, and I guess she met you in Camden, New Jersey. Yeah, when she was going to her and her sister were 15.

Yeah, and so she really credits you for making her feel like this career would be possible to know. Well, you know, a lot of times when I see people, I'll say things like, you know you're not supposed to be here right. You know that you are going to be in a different place. You know you're not supposed to stay where you are. You could feel it in your soul. So I see it. So I need for you to see it.

And I need for you to do something about it. I do that with a lot of people. Do you just see it and you offer it? I do. Who did that for you? I think it was like a family member or something maybe. I grew up. Okay, so my mom and her sisters were gospel singers called the Shockley singers.

And they used to sing background from Mihalia Jackson. Woo! Yeah. And then my dad was in a group and that's how. they met. So music and artistry has always been in around me.

And so I could tell who's who. But it's more of a spiritual thing. It's not an artist thing. Like, ooh, she could probably sing. Like, she looked like she got the breast to, like, the big old breast to, like, really blow. No, it's not the chest. It's

a spiritual thing. So I can kind of tell when I see him. So when did comedy come into it? When did you think? So I couldn't get arrested doing comedy. I started out as a dramatic actress, doing a lot of theater. And if you wanted somebody to cry on cue, Tisha was your girl. So I would always get hired for that kind of stuff.

And as a matter of fact, you were made to do this lifetime movie that you're in, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm going to get to that too. But when I was younger, I remember about 18 years old, I auditioned for a sitcom. And so the casting director goes, you need sitcom classes. And I was like, oh, okay, where do you get those? She was like, there aren't any. So I was like, so I had to figure out what comedy was.

So I would just go to the comedy store by myself or the Comedy Act Theater, the Laugh Factory, and I would just sit in the back with the comedians to try to figure out what is comedy because they were giving all the men these deals in the 90s. everybody had a deal. Robert Townsend, Sinbad, Martin, everybody, right? So I was like, I got to jump on somebody's show. I got to work.

So I would sit in the back and the ones that were really good were the ones who told their real life story. And I was like, oh, there's a thin line between drama and comedy. All I got to do is support and grounded and I can do it. So that's how I started out doing comedy.

Wow. And did you get up there? No. I was too afraid to go up because back then the climate of the stand-ups. And I'm saying this from people that were, you know, in the 90s, they weren't collaborative or it was very competitive. It was brutal. It was brutal. They were brutal to one another. So I never did it. But I worked with so many stand-up comedians in the scripted world that they kept telling me,

you really are good at telling stories. Like you've got to get up there. You've got to try it. You're really funny. You're really funny. But I would never. And it just so happened. Our friend, our good friend, De Nice, Derek D. Nice, had a residency at the Kennedy Center.

That's what I call it. That was like a couple years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was only two years ago. Two years ago. Right? And he had a residency. I happened to be coming to support him.

His host fell out. And he was like, tish, can you bring people up? And I'm telling you, he had the best of the creme de la creme. He had Sherry Shepherd, Michael Chey, Chris Spencer, Zanap. He had great people. Oh, Gina Riosheret, great comedians, big comedians. And I was like, sure, I can, I can bring them. Yeah, I can host.

I can bring them up. He was like, yeah, do 15 minutes before. I was like, huh? Who are you talking to? Right? Did he just assume that you... No, you know what? It was Beck.

You know, Rebecca? Of course. Yes. She works with D. Nice. Yes. We love Beck, by the way. We do love a Beck. We love you Beck.

Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm in a Mulec. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. had both been assassinated. And Black America was out of breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale.

In Atlanta, Georgia at Martin's Almemata, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history, Martin Luther King Sr., and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people would die. In 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in shenact. Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind. Listen to the A-building on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. I'm Bowen-Yin. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys' Five Rings podcast, in the lead-up to the Milan-Cortina-2026 winner Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Boin, hi, Matt. Hey Elmo. Hey, Matt, hey Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to two guys, five rings on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life. And that's a unicorn.

No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its fault of secrets. Listen to the Sixth Bureau on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Ryder Strong,

and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather. It was many and many a year ago in a kingdom by the sea. In 1995, my neighbor and a tribe. disappeared from a commune. It was hard to wrap your head around. It was nature and trees and praying and drugs. So no, I am not your guru. And back then, I lied to my parents.

I lied to police. I lied to everybody. There were years right at where I could not say your name. I've decided to go back to my hometown in Northern California, interview my friends, family, talk to police, journalists, whomever I can to try to find out what actually happened. Isn't it a little bit weird that they obsess over hippies in the woods? over hippies in the woods and not the obvious boyfriend.

They have had this case for 30 years. I'll teach you sons of a bitch to come around here in my wife. Boom, boom. This is The Red Weather. Listen to the Red Weather on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wait, so did they just assume that you had done stand-up? No, no, they didn't.

And they were like, she was like, oh, Chris, Chris, Chris Spencer will help you. And I was like, Chris ain't going to help shit. he got ADD, right? Chris ain't going to do nothing, right? So I called Chris and Chris as Ad. Just tell a story. I said, I knew your ass wasn't going on. So, but I also had taken classes with Chris a long time ago.

We took writing classes, me, him, and Tashina. And so I know how he operates, right? They were terrible in that class, too. I was a class. Victim? I was a victim, but no, he was the class class. So anyway, I know how he was a class class. he operates. So I said, I got 15 minutes before I go on to ask him questions. So I did that. And he

gave me, you know, really great advice. And I went up there. But the time I got off, there was an agent in the, in the audience. And she started representing me. And that was it. Wow. I started going on the road with Vanessa Mitchell. And you've been doing stand-up comedy ever since. And the first time, mind you, I ever went up there at the Kennedy Center. It was four thousand people. How many? Four thousand. Oh, my God. And did you? And did you? And did you? And did you? And did you? You tell jokes? Are you telling jokes? I told jokes. Yeah. But you're also. Tisha Campbell. Well, that's different, though. This is a completely different genre. It's the scariest thing I've ever done in my life.

Yeah. Because you're telling your real life stories. You are trying to get people to laugh at your pain. And, but it's, it's so, it's addictive. And I get to not have a screen between me and people anymore. They get to know me for me, not a character of me. Did you think for a second to not do it out of fear? Yes. I think about that every single time I go up. Fear could stop you if you let it. If you let it.

But I wouldn't, again, I'm at a certain age where I'm like, I'm going to try and do everything I've ever wanted to do. That's why I love this story. It's number one. It's like, this just happened two years ago. Yeah, it was just, you are already have all your credits. I was 54 years old. And you have, you have done what you have done.

And then I'm going to do this? You're going to start. something new that's terrifying and say yes. I'm going to go do that. Lunell told me, why are you getting into this misogynistic business? I was like, there's something so beautiful about this genre, this art form. And I've always respected it. And I wanted the people that I worked with to know that I took it seriously and that I'm really doing the work. Yeah. So. Love that. So how does it feel when you're up there? Like when they laugh, when it hits, when it hits. When it hits.

When it hits, it feels like I'm taking their pain away for just a half hour. What about when a joke doesn't hit? When a joke doesn't hit, you just keep it moving. It actually motivates me to get up there even more. To figure it out. Yeah. To unlock. Yeah.

It hurts. But it's like, oh, I got to get back up. That's how I feel about golf, Tisha. Really? You golf like that? I started golfing maybe three, four years. ago. Yeah? And I love it so much. I'm terrible. It's really hard. Yeah. Because you get better and you get worse. You got to do it in front of people. I go to these celebrity tournaments and I play in front

of people and I'm like, oh God, but I don't care. I like it anyway and I just do it anyway. It's not the feeling. It's not the same thing. No, it is. The idea of finding new things at whatever age you're at, whatever success level, whatever marital state. It doesn't stop. Like you always should be trying to find things that, I don't know, just new, fresh, fun. Keep you alive. Keep exploring. Keep finding the joy. Yeah. I want to see you do stand up so bad now. Oh, I want you to come. I totally want to come. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I'm in your area, I'll hit you up. So the movie that I saw the trailer today, it looks so good. Thank you. I mean, number one, because you just, when we see you on camera, it automatically is,

elevates the feeling. Like, it's just like we know it's going to get something out of it. I know it's going to feel good. It's going to be funny. Like, I don't know. You just, your presence just lends something elevated to anything, I think. This was an interesting project to take on. And I'm really not sure. I think it was a combination of a couple of things.

But it was Mary, of course. And then there was Gabby Citibe, who directed the film. And I worked with her. before doing a pilot of hers. And she saw my work where it was not just comedy. She knew that I could ground a scene and that I was still a drama, that I can do drama, rather. And so I knew that she was directing and I wanted to do well for her. Because you're such a girl's girl.

I think I am. Yeah. But she's a really. really good person. But even on top of her being a great actress and a good person, she's a fucking excellent director. I will work with her again and again. She's very clear about what she wants. Her storytelling is good. She communicates very well. And I wanted to make her proud. And she sent me a message. I literally cried because she was like, you put your whole heart into this. You put your whole heart into this. Everything that you may have.

have been through and I see it on screen and I just appreciate it. She said even Lifetime appreciates it. They really like the film. So I'm happy about that. I'm so excited. I can't wait. So I need to see you in the film. Yeah.

And I need to see some stand-up. It comes like guys. Yes. I need all those things. All the things. What about like, so you must have learned so much in the past couple of years of having this kind of transition. Yeah.

So people, we hear people say that, even on this pod for some reason, it comes up a lot. Like I'm in my, I don't care season. I'm in my. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We all say that. Yeah. But what is the actual, like, execution of that look like? Like, what are the things that you have to do to remind you?

Like, for me, I will tell you, I have to literally actually remind myself that what feels good for me is okay. I don't have to explain anything. I feel bad about it. I don't have to. It's almost like you have to massage your muscle memory to get you thinking. To remember who you are. To get you thinking a certain way. Yeah.

become a habit. Yeah, yeah. So, it's okay. For me, it's therapy. I have been super committed to unpacking baggage and understanding myself a little bit more where I am today. Aligning that nervous system. I've been working so hard in therapy and I can see the difference in myself. surrounding myself.

The other thing is I surround myself with a limited amount of people with whom I can trust. And then I'm a writer. I write. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet, Florida Sports Book.

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What about being a mother? Yes. And you mentioned, you know, having a child on the spectrum. Yeah. I know. You always want to be very careful about the language. Because it changes. It changes.

Yeah. Well, enlighten us. Like, what are the wrong words? What are the right words? What did you have to learn about that? Yeah. So they no longer use words like, Asperger's.

Okay. Because that was a... Or when you look at the spectrum, there's no more low on the spectrum or higher up on the spectrum. Just on the spectrum. You're on the spectrum and then there are levels now. So there's level one, level two, and level three. Level one is where it doesn't affect them living independently.

Level two is where they might need a little bit more support, right? Level three is where they need a whole bunch of... of support to function. And your child was on what level? I think he started out around, he was nonverbal until he was like eight. So I would say level two and a half. And now? Level two.

He's actually one and a half. I think he's one and a half because he can, one of my goals was to get him as independent of me as possible. So this boy is in college. He keeps two jobs in his pocket because he don't ever want to ask me for cash or anything. He prides himself on being the man of the house. Prides itself on protecting me. And he's just an amazing human being.

So I would say one and a half. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. When I think about my kids, it just makes me smile so hard. They're incredible people. Like, even my youngest, my youngest, the teachers at the school always call me about him. And they're like, he's the kindest child I've ever taught.

I get emails like that all the time. Like, I wish I had a dozen Ezekiel's in my class. So you did good as a mom. I think we're doing good. You did good. But I'm sure there were challenges in that. Yes, of course you love your kid. And of course, you did great.

In the beginning, it was very challenging. Yeah. It was very challenging. What do people not know about that, about being a mom and the challenges? I think what most people don't know is that when I got the diagnosis, I was on the set of my wife and kids. Wow. And I pride myself on being the type of person who doesn't bring their problems to work. And plus, Damon created such a family-oriented, loving atmosphere on that set.

And I felt like I owed it to him. to make sure that it stayed that way. So far be it for me to bring my ish. Make it heavy. To work. Yeah. So, yeah, I got. Does he know that you did that?

No. I think this is my first time talking about it, actually. But I adore him and his family so, so much. He even put a nursery in my dress room so that I could bring my baby to work. Like he was always so supportive. When I first got the job on wife and kids, he was like, hey, I think we're going to be here for a good five years.

It's time for you can get pregnant if you want to because we're going to be here. And so he didn't have to tell me twice. I got pregnant with Zen right away and had him the second season. Wow. And so you would never bring anything to set? No. I still don't do that. It's how we were trained in the same.

business I grew up in the theater. No wonder you would learn to wear a mask, baby. Yeah, because in the business, all you would hear was, one, you're only as good as your last job, and you will be replaced by your understudy. Like, who cares? Yeah. You know? Yeah.

So you come to work and you do your best and you consider the people around you. Uh-huh. But I always tried to make sure I had a smile on my face. because I really wanted to support the atmosphere that he. So you're going to work on set and it's fun and jolly. Your child just gets diagnosed and you're young. Right? 33.

30s? Yeah. 33. Your onset, young mother. And so then how do you manage that when you go home? I mean. Oh, I was constantly running. Running, running, running, running.

So Zinn was on set. Sometimes therapists would come to my dressing room or. I was running around trying to find therapy because one of the major problems that most caretakers or parents run it into is the fact that time is not on your side. You need to get that early intervention in. But especially in 2001, 2002, when he got the diagnosis, there wasn't a lot of resources. There weren't a lot of people that I could go to. And even if you did call like a behavioral therapist or speech therapist or an occupational therapist, you were going to. to be on a waiting list

just to get a call back to make an appointment. All of that said like I was literally running around and I'm very aggressive when it comes to my kids. I'm very, very, very, very aggressive. People are like, how you get an appointment so fast? Because even though I'm on this waiting list, I'm still going to call you every single day.

They're tired of your ass. And they got tired of my ass and they gave me an appointment. Oh, wow. That's how I had to operate. That's how I had to work. advocating for your son. It's my child. Yeah. Wow.

Did I answer your question? I think so. Okay. I mean, I was just trying to understand the every day of that, like, as a young woman, you know. The woman we had Sherry and Cheryl know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sherry was great. Sherry shared, we had Sherry on the show. Yeah. I don't know how many months ago. But I understood a lot about, you know, some of her fears of very, you know, raising a child and a black child yeah a black child also what that how child you know she was afraid to let him out in the street she struggled with his independence um you know so it's not a small thing we're like oh yes my child was on the and i showed up and i worked and i was a little but like

that's a heavy burden for a mother to to to carry absolutely and and you know i remember growing up in norc right in the 70s 80s and one of the things my mother was really really fearful of when my brothers, because I have three brothers by my mom and dad, when they would go out of the house and leave the house, she was deathly afraid of whatever the gang members that lived in that area of them getting, you know, attacked by that or police, you know, and just as black men.

But I have a black child on a special. spectrum. And when you have a black child that's on a spectrum, sometimes they might have ticks and quirks or they can't keep their body still. And that was one of my biggest fears that, you know, law enforcement wouldn't, they're not, back then, they weren't educated or trained in this type of diversity or what autism looks like. So his movements or the way that he might, you know, move, his body.

put his hands behind his back, when he's nervous, he puts his hands behind his back. I was afraid that they would mistake it for noncompliance or there was a gun in his back, you know, and behind him or something. And so I have to think about that all the time until we would practice with sin to keep his body straight just in case he was approached by an officer I know, right? That breaks my heart for him. Yeah. For any kid who, I mean, for, you know, the fact that kids have to do that.

Absolutely. It's heartbreaking. The fact that a mother has to train their kid to, you know, make sure you get a receipt in a bag when you leave. I don't care if it's a piece of gum. Get a bag in a receipt before you, so when you walk out, nobody assumes you're stealing. Those are things that you have to teach your. I never taught my son that. But see, that's the thing.

You got to teach Latino and black kids have to know these kind of things because people automatically assume the worst of them. Get a receipt in that bag. Do you have a good support system or did you then? Because now I feel like there are so many women. I had a very limited. There was AJ Tashina, my friend from high school, Sahira. Not a lot. The ones that I could really rely on.

And a girl named Donneal that I met in Los Angeles. Wow, that's small. Very small. They were all moms. they kind of understood but they gave me the support I needed to get me through this diagnosis, yeah.

It might have been one more, but oh, Holly Robinson Pete. Oh, Holly Robinson Pete really helped me through all of this, yeah. Because she's navigated those waters too well. Yeah, yeah. And as me and she was an early advocate. She was, she was the earliest advocate

that I knew, so she was the first person I called. And then there was also Lorna Kyle who is Cedric, the entertainer's wife. So she, during that time, they were all very, very supportive and kind of helped me. Holly, the most because she understood it in a different way. But you mentioned Sherry and Sharon and I have become sisters in this, in the autism community. And we've been sisters in, you know, just helping one another and supporting one another and pushing one another and pushing one another. we always call each other the queens of pivot.

I love a good pivot. Yes. I love a good pivot. We do. Where are you with love in your life now? What? What you say? Tisha, that was a very direct question.

I didn't hear you. Where are you with love? What bitch, what do you stand with it? What does it mean to you? I'm not saying who's loving on you. No, no, no. What does it mean to me? I don't know.

I'm still trying to figure out the love for myself. I'm still unpacking all of that. I don't, I know that I love people. I just don't know if I'm loved back by people. That's a really hard statement to say. Let me tell you this story. So I was doing this thing with Shirley Ralph. called Deva Simply Singing, right?

And on the show was Brenda Russell. Of course. Piano in the Dark. Piano in the Dark. She's a fantastic writer, and she was a well-known singer in the 80s, 90s. Piano in the Dark was one of my favorite writers and singers, right? But she was doing the show with me, and she also wrote, You Can Reach Me by Trelley, right? Get there if you can.

And I asked her, I said, that song, I said, God, it's so beautiful. I don't care how you get there. Just get there if you can. I said, who are you talking about when you wrote that song? And she says, oh, yeah, that's where people get it, you know, misconstrued. Because I wasn't talking about a person. I was talking about love itself. I've never been loved in my life.

Oof. And I did like this. And then the meaning, the words started. it going in my head, the meaning of the words took on a different, a whole different veneck. A little different meaning. Yeah. Welcome to the A building.

I'm Hans Charles. I'm in Alec Lamoma. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. have both been assassinated. And Black America was out of breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia at Martin's Almemata, Morehouse College, the students had their own

protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history, Martin Luther King Sr. and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people were dying. In 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind. Listen to the A-building on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bowen-Yang.

And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys' Five Rings podcast, and the lead-up to the Milan Cortina-26 winner Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bowen, hi, Matt, hi, hi, Elmo. Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears.

Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life.

And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS. and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its fault of secrets. Listen to the Sixth Bureau on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather. It was many and many a year ago in a kingdom by the sea.

In 1995, my neighbor and a trainer disappeared from a commune. It was hard to wrap your head around. It was nature and trees and trees. praying in drugs. So no, I am not your guru. And back then, I lied to my parents, I lied to police, I lied to everybody.

There were years right at where I could not say your name. I've decided to go back to my hometown in Northern California, interview my friends, family, talk to police, journalists, whomever I can, to try to find out what actually happened. Isn't it a little bit weird that they obsess over hippies in the woods and not the obvious boyfriend?

They have had this case for 30 years. How deep? You sons of people come around her in my wife. Boom, boom. This is the red weather. Listen to the red weather

on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And she was maybe 30 something, 40 years old at the most.

And I was like, you've never been loved in your life. And then now I am here in this moment. kind of more understanding her words. I have loved and I put my whole heart into it. I not only believe in the good of man,

I also believed in marriage, commitment, all of the things. And I'm still waiting to be loved properly the way that I define love. Maybe that's not fair to somebody. Um, fuck that. It shouldn't be fair to you. But again, I'm such a giver. I've given, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving. Yeah.

And I'm still waiting for that to come. I have hope. Yeah. That somebody will love me past Gina. Hmm. So I'm open. You feel like that got in the way. Gina got in the way.

I don't think Gina itself got in the way. perception of you or... I think my perception of myself may have gotten in the way. Maybe back then I was okay with crumbs. I was okay with I don't know.

You were okay with you doing all the things. I was okay with loving on people. Loving on people. Because I thought that was my job. Yeah. That was what my job was from him. Yeah. How do you... I feel that so deeply.

I know. I've never had an interview like this, by the way. Really? Oh, thank you for trusting me. And thank you for that. Yes, I do. I appreciate that. Thank you, honey.

I know, we got real. It is real. It's because people, you know, people are trying to figure it out. Everybody's walking around, like, fronting, like they got it all together. Nobody got that shit together. Nobody got that together. And it's interesting because I'm so much more than the characters that people have seen me play. I'm much more than the smile that I wear on my face at all times.

I'm so much more than it. Yes. Yes. And I'm learning. I'm peeling away the onion in therapy and in my friendships and in my now relationships. You know. I love that. Yeah.

Well, I don't mean I don't have no situationships. I'm just like. Until you find that love. Hey, I ain't by myself now. You're not opposed to a good time? Listen. I'm too grown for this. What are we doing?

What are we doing? Oh my God, Tisha. I still want love for you. If that's what you want for yourself, do you want that? I just want to know who I am completely. I want to be the best me that I could be first. I want to be able to have and work on all the baggage and unpack that before I'm super committed to

someone so they get the best part of me and I get the best part of me out of the relationship. Heard you. Yeah. So good.

How many times when people say damn, damn, damn, my life? Because like three times when you were talking today, I wanted to say damn, Gina. I really wanted to.

I don't mind it. But it was so real. I didn't want to, you know what I mean? You know, I just my instinct. Listen, my son calls me that every day. I told you. He does? Every day. Oh, my God.

He doesn't call me, Mommy. Shut up. I'm telling you he don't call me Mommy. He calls you Gina? He only calls me Gina. You know why? Because that dagon Nalawayans, Kenan's daughter was babysitting him

when he was like three years old. Right? And I never let my kids watch my work because I just wanted them to know me for Mommy. I didn't let them watch my work. I didn't put them on red carpets. I wanted them to be as far away from Hollywood as possible. I did do a red carpet once because it was a Disney thing

so I could take them to a Disney movie. But other than that, no. They weren't on the red carpet when they were little on everything. And she was babysitting him one day. And I came home and they're streaming the Martin show. And so Ziki turns, he's three. He goes, hey, Gina. And he's been calling you Gina ever since.

And I'd be answering because I'm tired. Child. Oh, my God. They watched the whole five seasons. Oh, my God. And then Nala goes, you're welcome. And I don't kill you. Why you got this boy?

So from then on, he's been calling me Gina. Oh, my God. I love that. So I'm used to it. All right. We have a couple. You're so good. I can talk to you all day.

Okay, so our first segment is a voice note segment. It comes from one of our IRL listeners. Okay. It's usually a question or a comment. This one is for you. So my question would be how. how do I begin to start over when I've already gone through so much turmoil, so much trauma and life as I know is no longer the same.

How do I maneuver through turning 50? I feel like 50 is where I should have been at my peak and I was headed there before everything else. So just looking, where do I go from here? How do I start over at 50? Wow, that's a great question. It's feel like she was listening to our interview today. Right. It's crazy.

So. What was her name? Lady tea. Lady tea. Okay, Lady T. So when I had to start over, I really had to... Start over from what? From, like, divorce.

So I'm going back up. So I've been, like I said, I was in this business since I was three years old. So I went straight from a momager and them being my manager into a marriage. And when I had to start over and when I left, I had to go from ground zero, complete zero, complete nothing. And it was scary, but I kept visualizing, you know what I kept visualizing? What? You know how a baby when they're first learning how to walk, they get up on their feet and they kind of teeter and they do this little wobble or wobble.

If you look at their faces, there's this excitement, this thrill. They know they're going to fall in their little pampered butts. They know they're about to fall, but they embrace the fall and then they get right back up. I think sometimes when we're adults, we forget to enjoy and embrace the fall, that everything could look like it feels devastated, but it's more like a beautiful devastation. And I just kept saying things are going to get better. A friend of mine named Danny, who was one of the people who really helped me through, she told me, she's my, actually, she's my writing partner and co-producer at my production company. But she kept saying, change the narrative, sis. Don't be the victim.

Don't tell the story over and over again. Make new stories. It's okay to start again. It's scary. It hurts. It's complicated, but it's okay to start again. You got this. And so I had to stop singing the same song over and over and over.

What was the song you were singing? Just, you know, this happened to me. That happened to me. I don't think I'm going to be able to do this because now I got it's just so it's the same thing that goes on in your head. Yeah. You know? And I had to stop. Embrace the fall and change the narrative.

What is the narrative now? Do everything you want to do that you've ever wanted to do in your life. Put yourself first, Tisha. Put yourself first. Angie. Angie. And everybody else will fall into place. If you're okay, then they'll be okay. But if you're not okay, how the hell you're going to get it in? So that's where I am right now. Damn, Gina. That was so effortful.

That's great. I felt that so deep. Okay. Hey, guys, support for this podcast is brought to you by Walden University. Have you ever thought to yourself, what if I could go after what I actually want and I could really make a difference? Well, you are not alone, and this is exactly why I want to tell you about Walden University.

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and take that first step. Walden University set a course for change certified to operate by Shiv. Now welcome to our IRL bowl of real questions about real life. Okay. See what you get. You can pick. You can pick so you get one that speaks to you. You don't have to pick your first one because we have the magic of editing. I ain't got my glasses on. So let's see. Okay. I can help you if you need because I had LASIC. How important is money to you? That's a good question. Money ain't important to me. money ain't my God. And I think that's where a lot of people get hung up in this business. They make money their God.

They make prestige something that they need. Fame. Fame, prestige, control, money. Money was never my God. So when money was gone, I've been poor before. I can make it again. So it's never been something that was, the end all be all for me

and never will be. My relationships are more important to me. The way I affect people is more important to me. Utilizing the gift that God gave me is more important to me. Making people forget their problems,

making them cry, making them laugh, making them think, making them change the mindset is more important to me. That is what a true artist is. I'm a true artist. And this shit right here

don't mean shit to me. Heard you, sis. but it's not bad when you get it. Well, there are benefits to the shit. Like, but if you are still, you have integrity and you're a good person and you still can do what you do, it's going to come.

You're going to get blessed by it and you're going to be able to take care of your family. But it doesn't have to be your God. Yeah. It never has to be your God. You answer the shit out of that question. Damn. We want another for shit.

Get another one. Get another one. We in it. Let's do like baseball. Let's do three. Let's do three questions before we wrap. All right. What's one thing you hope never changes about you?

How loud I am. I know. I like it too. I'm really loud. But it's actually part of the mask. I do enjoy it. But it has been a survival technique actually. So I'm actually a very shy person,

believe it or not. Nobody would believe that. I would never believe it. Nobody would believe it. But I also would believe it. Yeah. I'm actually quite shy and I hide it with jokes and loudness. And it has always been a strategic move. And the problem is that it's effective. It's so effective.

It worked. And you're so good at it. Yes. I'm so loud. You demand attention. And then when you get the people's attention, you deliver. You're funny. You have meaningful things to offer and say. It's the reason why I'm here. Like being able to do interviews like this, which is, like I said,

I don't think that I've ever had an interview like this. This in depth, this just, what's the word? I'm trying to find the word. Thank you. I feel you. You know what I'm saying. I think it's just honest. Honest and inviting.

and I don't feel like I have to put up a guard with you. Thank you. You're very good at what you do. Thank you, sis. So I'm able to say things that most people have never heard me say before. What was the fucking question? Oh, the loudness. I love being that I was able to be strategic with how loud I truly am.

Yeah. Not. Because I'm actually quite shy. Yes. I could see that, though, but it has worked for you. But you're so self-aware now that you know that it's a tool. I know it's a tool. It's a tool in your toolbox.

And plus, when I was 11 and 12, when I met Tashina, well, I say 11 and 12. Tashina was 11. I was 12. She likes for people to tell, she likes for me to tell people that because she wants everybody to know. She's younger than me. So when I first met her on an audition, and she was like, leh, you're so shy. Why are you so shy? Speak up for yourself.

I hate shy people. So she forced me out of my shyness. What a blessing. It was. And then she would take me all around all the gays in the 70s. And honey, they would crack on you, honey. They would let your ass have it. So you had to get thick skin.

So she was actually the blessing that helped me navigate the life. Yeah. How amazing it is to have a friend that long? You were how old when you guys? 11 and 12. My best friend, we've been friends since we're eight years old. So I know the benefit of that. Somebody that has seen you through all the seasons.

knows you like we finish each other's sentences. Remembers things that you don't even remember. I do not play about Tashina Arnold. That's one thing I do not play about. I don't play about her. I do not play about Tashina Arnold. That's my girl. That's my friend.

That's my sister. Yeah. And as protective as I am of her, she's just as protective of me. Oh my God. What a blessing that the two of you had each other. Yeah. In this business because we were able to survive this business. and not get caught up.

We'll wait. We're going to wait for this bullshit. Right. I mean, they went crazy on you. They want you to get loud. Yeah. Oh, yeah, you want to be loud. We're going to be loud.

Y'all can't. Okay. Silence. They're gone. But I was saying that I do not play about. Could you imagine, like, being famous, having that level of success. Yeah. The success that Martin had, that show in the 90s and,

what fame does to young people and Hollywood. The fact that you were able to navigate those waters. With my friend. With your friend. It was like a bubble around us. Our friendship was a bubble. And we helped each other survive through it. We helped each other navigate around it.

You probably kept each other in check. The thing about the two of us is we tell each other the truth. We don't have the yes men around us. We don't want it. That doesn't keep you honest. And we hold each other accountable and keep each other honest. And we do it with so much laughter. She is how I get through life.

She helps me laugh at everything. What a blessing. Yeah, she'll be like, put an h on your shirt, bitch, and handle it. Like, put the h on your shirt, bitch. and handle it, okay? That's Tashina Arnold. I love that. Yeah, I love her.

My final IRL question I like to ask everybody on the show. Do we have anything else before I do it? Final question? I'd like to ask everybody this question. Okay. My final question. My final question, does you know? Yes.

You are so wonderful today, by the way. This is a question in the bowl. If God were to text you today right now, what would it say? What God would say to me? Say it. That's what he said. Stop being so loud. I know your tricks.

That's what he would say. You know, if God texted you stop being so loud, you would know exactly what he means. Yes. He really means, I know what you're doing, sis. I know what you're doing, daughter. You're hiding. So stop being so loud.

I'm never going to stop being so loud, Lord. I'm sorry. Lord, I'm sorry. I don't know if I'm sorry. could do it. It's very hard for me. It's a survival technique, Lord. He made you. He knows you. It's okay.

Tashina. Tisha. I'm not the other one. I'm the other one. Tishina Arnold, by the way, we need her next because I need the flip side of this, I need the flip side of this story of this duo.

My goal one day would be to have the two of you in the chair together. You're going to very soon. I can't say why. Project happening? We can both. That would be amazing. I just want to make sure there was nothing else here. I think so.

That was amazing. You are brilliant. No, you got to understand, Angie. It's you. Aw. You create a safe space for people to speak. Thank you. Because we're always so guarded.

But the way that you handle your guests. Thank you. It's so comforting. So we don't mind saying things that nobody has ever heard. Thank you. Thank you for that, baby. Tisha Campbell in real life. In real life, too.

In real life. You know, that was beautiful. This is Tisha Campbell in real life. Hey, guys, thanks for watching. Make sure you subscribe, like, comment, and check out all of the other episodes we have on Andrew Martinez, IRL podcast. 1969, Malcolm and Martin are gone.

America is in crisis. And at Morehouse College, the students make their move. These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson, locked up the members of the Board of Trustees, including Martin Luther King, Sr. It's the true story of protests and rebellion in black American history that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles.

I'm Manilic Lamumba. Listen to the A building on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Over the last couple years, didn't we learn that the folding chair was invented by black people? people because of what happened in Alabama. This Black History Month, the podcast, Selective Ignorance with Mandy B,

unpacks black history and culture with comedy, clarity, and conversations that shake the status quo. The Crown Act in New York was signed in July of 2019, and that is a bill that was passed to prohibit discrimination based on hairstyles associated with race. To hear this and more, listen to Selective Ignorance with Mandy B

from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Bowen Ye. Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead-up to the Milan-Cortina-2020 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bowen, hi, Matt, hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.

Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.