Joe and Jada - LL Cool J tells CLASSIC Def Jam & Rick Rubin stories + talks coining “G.O.A.T.,” ‘NCIS: New York’ & “I Need Love”

Episode Date: October 6, 2026

Fat Joe and Jadakiss are joined by Queens rap pioneer and true hip-hop icon LL Cool J to discuss his unrivaled longevity, legendary catalog, and his starring role in the gritty new series 'NCIS: New York,' which premieres October 6th on CBS. LL explains becoming the very first artist on the Def Jam label, bringing his demo to Rick Rubin's NYU dorm room, and why Rubin's genius is in "reducing" rather than producing tracks. The rap legends also break down how LL officially coined the term “G.O.A.T.,” the vulnerability it took to release a hip-hop ballad like "I Need Love," and why veteran MCs shouldn't let fear of criticism stop them from contributing new classics to the library of hip-hop. Plus, LL explains his choice to navigate the industry with a disciplined inner circle rather than a large entourage and teases the upcoming Rock the Bells Festival. Joe and Jada is now STREAMING ON NETFLIX Merch is here: https://joeandjadashow.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What up, y'all? This your main man, Memphis Bleak right here, host of that Rock Solid podcast. And each week, we bring in you exclusive looks inside music. Everything happening inside the culture. Some of the best conversations were the biggest names in the game. You had a little bit more pressure to be good. And they didn't care if you was a girl. Like, you wasn't getting no points. If you're not trash, you better be not just good.

You better be great. Listen to Rock Solid on Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app. podcast or wherever you string podcasts. I'm Kerry Champion, and in this new season of biggest rivalries of all-time podcast, we take you back to the very first rivalry of the WNBA. The Comets were the real deal. I mean, come on. The Liberty was just tough.

Oh, God. The New York Liberty versus the Houston Comets. When we hit the floor, it was hot, heated, fights, elbows, competition, trash talking. Who is the better team? People live, but numbers don't. Listen to biggest rivalries of all time on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The WNBA playoffs are here, and Good Game with Sarah Spain is the only daily podcast that'll keep you up to date on all the action. We'll make sure you're the smartest fan at the bar by bringing you interviews with some of the best minds in basketball, including your favorite coaches and players.

No one cares what we did last year if anything that's a bigger target on our back. Want to know what's really going on in the WNBA? We got you. Listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Someone can teach you about not having limits, but where you go with that idea can be completely different, right? I can teach you how to work without limitation, but you may make a decision that requires you to not be limited in a way I don't agree with. Right? I took the principle of no limitations all the way. That's why I do what I'm. I want to do. That's why you, you know, people want a pigeonhole it to make it about L.L. does love songs, but those who really know my catalog know, that's not really all I do.

That's just what the commercial world tries to force feed people with to, you know? Biggest in the game, Joe Crack to Dawn. You know who it is, your boy Jada? You know what it is? Joe and Jada show every show legendary, every show iconic. And today is those, we always say those is understatement. But for today's guess, he's probably the epitome of both of those words. We'll get into that shortly. Thank you.

When you think of today's guest, you think of somebody who really made the word legend make sense. Before the playlist, before social media, before everybody had a brand he was creating moments that moved the culture from Queens to the world howless to be exact from the battles

to the blockbusters from my need love the mama said knock you out Farmers Boulevard from the stage to becoming special agent Sam Hanna on television for more than 300 episodes.

His brother has shown you what longevity looks like when talent, discipline, and heart are all real. He's an artist. He's an actor. He's a businessman.

A family man. One of the original examples of how to evolve without ever losing who you are. Ladies and gentlemen, the one and only LL Kul J in the building. They coined the phrase goat after you? Well, the way it came up was Earl, the man of goat, you know what I'm saying, the streetball player, and Muhammad Ali saying he's the greatest of all times.

And when you put those two together, you got goat. Because greatest of all times was just greatest of all times. and Earl, they used to call the man to gold, the goat. So I just kind of put it together and name my album. So you put that together. Yeah, I put it together for my album. So you invented the term,

Oh, without a doubt. Without a doubt. Yeah, yeah. That's guilty. And it's, you know, it's stuck. It's stuck. So, you know. It's the goat of everything out there right now.

I mean, yeah. At the end of the day, you made a contribution to the world. I'm glad people are running with it. I'm glad that people are running with it. I'm glad that people feel like, I'm glad I was able to create something that people are utilizing

to personify what greatness is, you know? We all get, you know, we trip over one or two here and there. It happens, you know what I mean? So I tripped over one and caught that one. I always felt like if I A&R, the LL Couget album would be the greatest album in the world.

I always felt that way about me, A&R, and nobody knows you more than fat Joe. No, I appreciate it. Listen, I love making music. It's two sides to it because I'm an artist first. So I don't necessarily always make music necessarily to appeal to people. I just like to come up with crazy ideas and see how it works. So sometimes it works, sometimes it don't.

It's kind of like how I approach, but that's very different because everybody's not like that. So I'm not conservative. Some people are a little more conservative. This is my lane. I'm staying in my lane. This is what I do. And they kind of, I don't really do that. So I have some records that will be your favorite.

And then some records that people are hate and I'm comfortable with both. You know what I'm saying? The last album you had, the African, oh, yeah, Black Cold Sweet. Yeah, with Sonny Joe Better. That was crazy. Yeah. Yeah, the album is actually a very good, fun album. It's like one of the pieces of work that I'm really,

pleased with. You know what I'm saying? Me and Chutip the fourth album is good. What I told... I like to join that I did with him. I like that right. A lot. Well, you ain't like the one you deal with Fad Joe and Rick Raw?

No, I do. I do. I do. That shit rang off. I do. You got to stop. We just all fired for a minute. You crazy?

It actually did well. You know, you get people's attention for one day, two days. That's what this shit is now. It's like, it ain't back in the days where people lived with albums forever. It's like, you cast their attention for two. days and it's just moving on. To be real with you, Joe, I think that you

just got to do what you love in life. I think, you know, ultimately you can't live your life based on someone else's opinion or based on a response to what it is that you're doing. You got to do what you love, period. And now,

now, and the double blessing is to be able to make a living doing what you love. Right? You want to be able to do that. But you can't You know, as an entertainer, you can't really concern yourself with constantly, like, thinking about charts and responses. Yeah. Like, you can't get caught up in that. You know what I told Buster?

Because I dropped the album last week. Yeah. Buster dropped the album. I see your bus. Look. I said, at this point, let's try not to think that we're competing with the 18-year-old guy who got I need love right now. We just not. Like hip-hop's a young game, right?

Well, hold on, hold on. You got to understand something. See, guys, people get a little confused. It's not that it's a young gang, it's that your fans grew up with you. Yes. Hello. And guess what? And guess what?

Your fans love you, but he got to work in the morning. So he's not up on night listening to your album and worshiping the ground. No, no, no, I agree. No, I'm just saying. No, no, no. So the young, so it's totally. in agreeance. What I am saying is

at this point I told Bus, let's see your bus, man. You ever watch the Game of Thrones? He was like, yeah, I watched the Game of Thrones. I've watched it before. So you know they sentenced guys that are too smart. They sentenced them to like a library with like a billion

books and their life is to read all these fucking books. And these guys come up with the cure for cancer. So I'm saying, your bus, you drop the new joint classic with Jay Diller. I dropped the joint. L.L. dropped some shit with the Africans

there, the M-Didis. So in the library of hip-hop, I feel like we just drop a new album in that whole library of hip-hop. And we put something that's needed there. It's something that's needed there for people to go back

and search and be like, y'all, these guys were still doing it. No matter what age they was, they still was putting quality work. was doing what they wanted. I understand what you're saying. Let me tell you something, girl. Let me tell you something.

When I go press play on a Miles Davis album, I don't think about how old he was when he created. Talk slow to me. You know what I'm saying? I think the thing that's not being said that we got to be honest about is when you put a body of workout, if it's not recognized at a certain level,

it's painful for some artists. It can be painful for artists to not be recognized at a certain level. You kind of got to get over that. You got to get over it. The world, the things have changed, the way things, it's not just the tension span. It's also the fans that you have have grown up and they engage with the music different. They don't love you less.

They love you just as much, right? But the point I'm getting at. Right, right? Is that for the last couple of years, I've seen some legends that could put out some legendary albums that are afraid to put out albums because they're afraid of sales or not being as big as they used to be. And we're losing. I'm just telling you the truth. We're losing great talent and people who could bring more to the game. But we're like, yo, what's up? What you just described? Fear is always going to be a problem. Yeah. You know, you have people

that are afraid to succeed. You have people that are afraid to fail. Fear is always a problem. When you hear people talk about true paths, fear and love, that's a true thing. So fear is, that's an issue of fear. You know, when you live your life based on, when you allow the public to define who you are to you and to assign your value, you get yourself in trouble. And you get in a position where you're afraid to put records out because your

value is a sign. You're looking for outside validation for something that has to come from when you're, you. When you look in the mirror, you know who's the eyes. You know what you see in the mirror. You know what you see in the mirror if you want to be honest.

Yeah. Okay? So you know when you're on your A game. You know when you're on your B game. And it has nothing to do with anybody's opinion. You know when you followed your diet or when you didn't.

You know when you went to the gym when you didn't. You know when you made the song you didn't. You know when you wrote more than you needed to. You know. So I would just encourage guys, to not be fearful.

I would encourage everybody to not be fearful and to understand that part of life is growing and part of life is maturing. And you're not going to be able to be 19 forever, but that doesn't mean that there's something wrong with being 50 or 40. You know what I mean? It's like it comes with the territory.

Speak on it, God. You're over here. You're going to, you know, you probably really only feel like that because you just dropped the hell. I don't feel like shit. What are you talking about? I'm not talking about me.

I'm not scared of out. And this and that, I'm not scared as shit. There's no, there's no, hip-hop's too young to be a young man's gay. Brother, I'm not scared as shit. I'm just going off with you saying. No, what I'm saying is, I'm talking about

in general. We can't and we won't, but I can mention you, 10, 20 artists that should have dropped in the last 10 years that are fucking incredible that keeps throwing out mixed cakes. They don't want to throw out an album

because they don't want to show out an album because they don't want to shit to not chart the way it is. And then they think they lost it back. It's the normal thing. It's the fear criticism and the fear of people, you know, it's the feelings of inadequacy that they got

to get over. You know what I mean? The same thing Buster said to me. Why don't you drop out? I don't want to drop out. Do I think I'll fucking salmon ride 90% of the game? A kuma la Lata, digger. You want a kuma Lata shit.

Yeah. That's why. What are you saying? You know, that Kumal Atada shit. That's our feeling. I mean, you can't make me not a Tijuana. It's got word. That's what's bad man.

You know what they can't make me not feel. Yo, Joe, you're watching the line down, man down. That guy been watching the line. What's that man go? No, because he said, I know, you said, Akuna Matata. What you said? Summa Kum loud. Oh, Summa Kum loud.

Oh, Summa Kum loud. Like, what, graduating from school. Y, I don't know shit. You know. What about Magnetum Loud? Because I think Summa Clum Loud is second, right? But it sounds smart, right? The Sudakum Loudie.

I mean, if you don't know. Yeah, I'm like, wow. Secura Super Bowl. Somebody says some sparset, I'd be like, Summa Coom Loudie, that's what it is. And so, yo, that's all I'm saying. I'm just saying that it's a time where, and especially, By the way, you're both right. You're right, you absolutely right with the library

that things is needed for you. Yeah. That was 100%. Well, you keep making your contributions because your music, your art, you'll have a song that, I have songs that never played on the radio, people come up to me and tell me that it changed their lives.

Oh, yeah. So you can't, you never know who you're going to touch with your art. And as an artist. Guy killed bin Laden listening to the game. game. Red October, real shit. The nigger said he popped Ben Laden listening to the game on his headphones

Red October. I mean... I'm showing you how powerful hip-hop is. That's how powerful hip-hop is. He wanted the game on his shit to fucking pop off. Like, it's football, shit, all that they got to listen to music.

For all the real ones out there, we're keeping it 1800. I don't feel to the first artist on DevGand. And you look better to some of the artists they just signed. You're hilarious with that. Look, so Def Jam was a

production company, right? The label was street time. It was party time streetwise. And it was a production, Def Jam Productions. It was a song called It's Yours by Tila Rock. So I went to the store and I bought that song and I sent my demo into Rick Rubin at his dormitory in NYU

and when we finally got together and made I Need a Beat I Need a Beat was the first song on the Dev Jam label that was the independent label and we went from we did a couple of singles independently and then we got to deal with CBS

and I made the albums and all the stuff happened so how did it feel? Man it felt like you know a little kid's dream coming true over and over and over again every day. You know, it was like waking up every day

and your dream comes true. It was the most incredible feeling, man. I was doing handstands on the subway on my way to the studio. You know what I'm saying? You know what's crazy is? Moni Love came here. And she was like, yo, you know, you're like our little brother. And I'm like, you know, I'm just thinking

hip-hop. She was like, you know, Chris Lighty was our first manager. And when he signed you, we were all rooting for you to jungle brothers, the disc, everybody was rooting for you. We didn't even know you, but we felt like our little brothers in the game because Chris Lighty put you in the game.

So it's similar to what you describe it now. You start Def Jam and it flourishes into this big thing. Oh, yeah. And you're just like, yo, I started that shit. Well, well, it's incredible because you got to understand when we started Def Jam, it was

in Rick's dorm. And NYU. Meaning like you walk in and George is there and the record crates on the floor and there's a drum machine, and that's it. I need to ask you a question, right? All of that, what's going on now? Yeah, now you're walking in buildings

and you're seeing TV screens with your picture on it when you walk in, and it's just hilarious to be. It's almost like, you got to understand. Like, I used to walk out of Russell's office. Like, yo, Heidi, where's the sandwiches? See what I'm saying? That's for you.

Your eye, seen something. Nobody else. You've seen it from the beginning. That's crazy. You know, I remember sitting with all. Andre, well, he's telling me, I'm a start-up town records, and, you know, he's telling me about it. You know, what he said and all that.

So what he did. Without a doubt. Andre Harrow. Like, so I've seen a lot. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, seen a lot. Seen a lot. Seen a lot, B.

Nah, you've seen a lot. L.L. then did it all, man. It's like, what you say? I always knew that. But I guess this is the value of a podcast. The way you just explained that for the first time in my life. Yeah.

I said, holy shit, he was there before they had a record. Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, even the fact that, even the fact may he rest of peace, my man, E. Love, he's the public enemy logo, right? So my guy who stood on stage with me holding the box, they Chuck took a picture of my hype man and made it the public enemy logo. Like, that's my, my hype man, that's my man, he loved, who's my friend first. Then he was my hype man, but that's the public enemy. So for me, a lot of the stuff that the way I look,

look at things is like kind of a little different. I always thought that was the Ellis logo and hip-hop. Yeah. Yeah, and that's my man. It was a picture of me and him in his magazine, and Chuck took it out and put it in a silhouette and made it the P.E. logo. So when you see those kinds of things happen, and Chuck, who I think is one of the greatest ever,

in my opinion, and his voice and everything. And, like, I remember before he... Chuck smarter than everybody. And before he got signed, Rick came to me. Rick wanted to... Hey, I want to give you a song, Uziways of time. I said, oh, Rick, I write my own songs. Yeah.

But, you know, like, Uzi Wazzo, like, he wanted to get me. What? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me get to this, right? Try to explain to me, because I don't know. Yeah. And I think I'm a hip-hop historian.

What is the genius of Rick Rubin? Because no one has ever really broke that down to me, and he doesn't talk, he doesn't do interviews. What do you feel like? Because when people talk about Rick Rubin, they talk about him like, on a genius level. Not real shit. I know what you mean. He'd be sitting in the shit

with the fucking Akumakum Lowry and shit with plants around him and shit. But I can't tell you, I can't break down to Rick Rubin for you. A nice natural, organic pedicure. You know, organic little organic pedicure. Like, you're my man.

Like, could you explain to me the genius of Rick Rubin? You know, so funny. Like, so when I first met Rick. First of all, I called him every day. Yo, Rick, you get the tape. I didn't get it yet. I didn't get it yet. I didn't get it yet. Finally, he got the tape. So when I went down and made him, he said, come on down.

I walked in. I saw him in. He came down at five university place. That's one of the dorms in NYU. He came down. He was like, who, Jay? I was like, yeah, you Rick? He said, yeah. I said, oh, I thought you was black. He said, cool. Let's go upstairs. So we went up. So we went upstairs. We go upstairs. The genius of Rick is that he helps you for. facilitate whatever it is you want to create.

And also, he knows what to take away. Like, you take a writer like Ernest Hemingway. He knew what to take away. Rick Rubin knows what to take away. So, like, if you look at my first album, radio, it says reduced by Rick Rubin. It doesn't say produced. It says reduced.

It says reduced by Rick Rubin. So he knew how to simplify doing so much. And in life, in general, if you think about that, If you look at furniture, if you look at a room, if you think about he knows how to let things breathe. He knows how to create space and create room. You know, we would do little things like tuck the vocals a little lower so people have to turn it up to hear it. You know what I mean? There are just little things that he would do.

And this is the thing. No limitations, right? So I can play with avant-garde blues. I can play with rock. I can play with love songs. I can play with all kinds of things. And there's no limitation. You can't tell me what I can't make.

I'm not even considering that. Whatever I want to make, I'm going to make. Doesn't mean you have to like it. Doesn't mean you have to like it. They force that Joe to be a gangster. They forced me every time I start an album. But you ask about the genius of Rick. Kill some people.

You're asking about Rick. All right, yeah. Yeah, you asked about the genius of Rick. The genius of Rick is him teaching you how, what to take away. And then keeping it basic, you know? And understanding the right songs for the right person at the right time. You look at Johnny Cash redoing a Trent Resner song, Hurt. And you look at the way he approaches that, the way Rick will produce that, that's important.

So that's why you can go and you can listen to you too, but then you can listen to Metallica, but then you can go and you can listen to the cure, you can listen to the clash, you can go and you can listen to, you know, Johnny Cash, but then you could flip it, you can go to Bob Marley, but then you can go to Led Zeppelin, right? You can go to the sex pistols. You know, you could go.

So being able to really listen to all of music and understand all of music going from miles to Coltrane, to, you see what I'm saying? You know, those Glenn Miller, you know, you know, Jimmy Dorsey, Tommy Dorsey. So it's no limitation on your world of music. And so, you know, when I approach music and when I approach my life, I don't approach you with any limitations.

You know, I'm not in this to try to remain what I was. I'm in it to expand my soul, right? And so that's the difference. And that's the thing you learn being around Rick. Now, we didn't always agree. you know, he, you know, like, you know, he will say is false, but I remember him, I need love, no, you can't do it. You know, he didn't agree with that.

I thought that's what you was making reference through the whole time. Like, when you came with, I need love, nobody never did that like I thought you were saying. No, no, no, no, I did that without Rick, but I did that. So here's the thing, right? Someone can teach you about not having limits, but where you go with that idea can be completely different. different, right? I can teach you how to work without limitation, but you may make a decision that requires you to not be limited in a way I don't agree with. Right? So that's what

you have to kind of think about. So I took the principle of no limitations all the way. That's why I do what I want to do. That's why people want a pigeonhole it to make it about LL does love songs, but those who really know my catalog, no, that's not really all I do. That's just what the commercial world tries to force feed people into, you know? Ding, ding, ding a ding. Ding, ding, ding, ding. Yeah, yeah, 1,900.

What? That shit there? Yeah. Holy shit. That shit. Yeah. Yeah. What?

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My brother, rest and peace, Angel and his voice, AJ and no alarm. They used to throw bus rides to like King Dominium and Parks like that every summer. Bush Gardens. Bush Gardens. And then one day I'm on the bus with him, my man, Vance, romance. I don't even know if these guys are alive right now. but AJ I seen them the other day but I remember we got on the bus

and the whole fucking bus started singing I need love. I mean the whole bus maybe a thousand times we go on to Virginia and it was sometimes to stare at the wall. I took a just grown man in there singing that shit. That shit

was just like it was different. You know because we all need it. You know we make music in a culture that you know a lot of it is ego base. But then sometimes you got to get past that and just deal with the truth of humanity. We do

need love. Now, whether you have the courage to admit it or not is another conversation. You definitely need it. Yeah, but you definitely need it. Deep down inside. You know, and it could be as simple as you need it to love yourself. But whatever you, however you look at it, that

was the thing. So I never was uncomfortable with the idea of being truthful about whatever it is I felt. You know? You know what I mean? no matter who's watching. So it's kind of like the ultimate rebellious move because everybody's trying to be a tough guy,

but I'm confident. You know, like, it doesn't mean I'm saying you got to be what I... You know, you got to be like me, you know what I mean? But I'm saying I'm coming so I can say I need love and feel very comfortable

and then sing I'm bad right after it. You know what I'm saying? And it's all good, you know what I mean? So... Yeah. I always appreciate it no matter how much you evolved and how big of you got.

Your passion and love for hip hop Love it. Always stayed. Yeah, I love it. It never dwindled. It never compromised. All right, I'm getting this Hollywood money. You always kept rap and hip hop up here, and I love that.

I love that. Let me tell you something. And you guys get money. I mean, a lot of people get money. Man, you're going in one room with your remote control. Knock it off. I don't care if you got 500,000 square feet. You got one room you like the most

and you're in there like this or like this. Knock it off. You're on your phone in that same room. Like a lot of it, a lot of things I think. That was the illest shit up. You got one room you like and that's where you're going. Everything else is hype. Everything else is for somebody else.

Right? Like, why do you think? You got your favorite chair. Your favorite thing. Yeah, you go. Here you go. Exactly. It's comfortable.

Like, you know, like, I don't want to move. I mean, you could get me 10 times my network tomorrow. I don't see, I might buy something, but I don't know if I'm moving. I don't think I want to move like that. Like, I'm good. That's how I feel. Yeah, I don't want to move. So, so what, why am I telling you that?

There's an old saying, right? Professional says, the amateur says, I want to be where you're at. Professional says, well, you're going to have to go through a lot of pain, a lot of trial, a lot of this and that. amateur says that's easy for you to say you're a professional. So let that sit for a minute. So why am I saying that? I'm saying it because I know that a lot of people want to make money. And I understand how important it is.

And we do need to make money. Yes. We do. It's very important that we make money. Like I'm doing Dreamfire with Ben Crump. You know, these are important things. Fiscal responsibility is very important. It's very important.

That being said, you cannot, I said this to someone. early, your value cannot be determined by your bank account. If, you know, people always want to say, well, who did the message come from? Who did the message come from? I said this earlier. If a homeless man tells you not to do push-ups on the subway tracks, you should listen. He don't have a lot of money, but you might not want to do that. Okay?

So grandma, granddad, auntie, uncle, advice cannot be based on what somebody has. The comment section always wants to make it about what people have. But wisdom is not that wisdom and money can coexist, but they're not always the one and the same. Right? You see what I'm saying? Some of the guys I looked up to in this business when I met them and I talked about the business, they ain't no shit, well. I was shocked.

These are the biggest guys in the game because, you know, I've been doing this shit myself, like independent, my own videos, my own promos, my own radios, my own,

so when I sit down with the bosses, the legends, and I sit with them, I'm like, oh, these nags got lucky. Well, a lot of times...

They found an artist that just blew. And they look like they know a lot, but they found it, they found the artist They're blow. Well, yeah, it's that. And a lot of times, you know, and this is just something I learned in life,

you may rise to the level of your goals, but you will fall to the level of your system. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? So your goals, you'll get to your goal. You can get there, but your system is going to determine whether you're able to state it.

Mm-hmm. You see what I'm saying? So how are you handling things? So a lot of times what you have is you might have somebody who, they may not be the best. brightest, them sharpest knife in the drawer, but they got a solid, consistent system that allows them to succeed, even though they're not that bright. Yes.

Right? So you might have, you might have the one, two, three tactics that are really brilliant, but they got a system that just works. Yes. You feel me? Yes. It's like carrying buckets versus having a pipeline. Yeah.

One dude, he got all the muscles. He's carrying buckets. He's incredible. But you're like, yo, this dude over here is weak, friend, but he got a lot. a pipeline of water. Right? You feel me? So you got to look at the system of your life.

How are you eating? What are you doing? How are you handling your business? Are you saving your money? Are you paying what's supposed to be paid? Are you taking care of things the people you're supposed to take out? Are you taking care of yourself? Are you saying no when you should say no?

Are you afraid to say no? Are you afraid to say no to yourself? Well, one thing I always talk to you about is, other than the big mind of all big mind that you got here with you. I've never seen you with a crew, entourage, a bunch of friends. When did you decide that you didn't want to be the guy with the entourage, the friends, the this, the that,

or did anything ever happen to you that made you feel like? Of course. I mean, listen, I was taking dudes on tour, you know, try to send them home. They know other dudes from the neighborhood on the tour. then they go out in the crowd and hurt people. End up in jail. Rest it up. Was it a conscious thing for you to be like,

yo, I'm going to navigate this shit on my own. Yes. You ever seen a walking with a panther? You ever see the jaguar and the goddamn jungle jump out, jump on one of them camels? Like he'd just be up in the bushes

and then you look like, or you sometimes you just got to jump on the camels neck yourself. Yes, because ultimately, You're responsible. You know what I'm saying? And I don't want, I can't have, respectfully, I can't have morons around.

And I'm not calling everybody I have hung out with a moron, but you got to be disciplined, man. Like, if you're going to be around me, you have to have discipline. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't have people around me that don't have discipline. I don't do the lax of days ago,

yo, whatever, and talking to people crazy, I don't do that. You'll be gone. Because like I always say, there's a difference between nice and kind. I'm a kind person, but I'm not a nice guy.

You know what I mean? Break that down. So nice is wanting to be liked, not wanting to offend people. You know, oh, this is okay. You stepped on my white shoe with your oily boot.

That's all right. That's nice. Kind is don't step on my goddamn shoe no more. We good, but don't do that no more. Right? I didn't take your head off. I'm kind about it,

but don't do that. And you need people around you who are like that to me. So I keep guys around me that have that kind of mentality. We're not going to be rolled over, but we're not looking to roll over nobody. And I don't walk around my chest poked out because that's how you're getting trouble, right? We learned a long time ago in the street.

Manners. Manners go a long way. A whole long way. Manners. Pardon me. excuse me, my back, thank you. I see that work a million times. Yo, man, is this?

So that's how I like to move. Plus, I like to think, man. I got to think. I don't want a bunch of people around me, like I can't think they're talking about some stupid stuff that is not making any sense to me. I want to think. Now, if you can have a conversation,

okay. That works. but if it's foolish, fully, I can't. I ain't got no time for that, man. You know what I mean? I got dreams that may come true. I got dreams I need to make come true. You know what I?

You made a lot of dreams come true, brother. Like, your shit, your life is been a fucking beyond a blessing, a testament. You know, you're like, I don't want to jinch you, but I always tell everybody, like, you're like the perfect representative of hip-hop music. That's a fact. Like the most perfect.

Like, to me. Well, look, I'm floored and God is great, and I give God the glory. You know what I'm saying? And he's inside of me, and I give the God of me glory as well. That being said, I'm flawed like everybody else. But the thing is, I just don't go out of my way to have problems. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, you got to know when the, you know, my man, the old hustle,

you tell me, your pop one, chill one, man. You got to know when the pop one, chill one, man. You know, you got to know, you got to know you. man. You got to know when to fall back a little bit. Like, you know, when to fall back, when you're getting a little, when you get a little out of control and all, like you got fall back. You know what I like the third rail, man. I always touch the third rail.

Yeah. I like to slip a surf. Yeah, okay. You smell that? That's Joe. He likes the third rail. That's Joe. He likes the third rail.

You smell that? Yeah. I'm doing push-up on the ironies. Diamonds, like, diamonds. Yeah. the time to widen to the doubt you're talking.

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We've signed to the same label. Not to tell their business in general, But I used to hang out with bone thugs in harmony all the time. I might have sold two records. I ain't had no real money. You know, these guys were selling 30 million records.

And I'd be in a hotel room with them, and they're discussing, like, business and what was happening to them as shit. And I really, really would stay quiet because I knew I didn't have as much money as them. I wasn't as big as them, but I knew they were getting jerked.

Yeah. And I knew how to explain to them, yo, look, these dudes are jerking you. This is going on, this going on. But me being the brokeest dude in the room,

I was actually afraid to bring it to their attention and be like, yo. See, and yeah, I'm glad you said that because that goes back

to what I was saying earlier. See, man, let me tell you something, man. No matter how successful you are, you had to start somewhere, right? Mm-hmm. So if you met me when I was 16 and I ain't had no paper,

who was I? Because I had it in me to be what I am right now. So, you know, like, you can't base it on dollars. There's dudes, there's kids watching right now, this guys watching right now, they got potential. They're smart. They got to really believe in themselves. Like, you got to believe, like, you really are that dude.

Like, it doesn't matter. Be delusional. It ain't a delusion It's reality I know what you're saying And I get it And I respect that And I understand people

When they say that delusion Listen man Just believe in yourself Believe in yourself Man God damn it Make it a reality Like we ain't delusion

Yo make it a reality Yeah we ain't delusional About nothing We want to win I'm like When I was 16 It wasn't like I'd be standing on the block

You know Because you know Everybody out there And dudes is like Yo This one rap That one rap And I'm like

Yo but standing out here talking about I rap don't do nothing. Folding, you got your hands folding on the corner. That was real advice. But I had no money. No, it happened. You know there ain't nothing happening right there. Just saying you can wrap you.

This is what I'm saying? So what did I say? I said, yo, we got to be like helicopters. We're talking about something. We got to like get our minds up out of here to like see what else is going on in the world and just kind of rise up above this thing. I remember when I was like,

I don't know, maybe 14 or something. And, you know, we play hooky. We cut school. We didn't go. and I'm in my man's garage and they were sitting all in a circle and everybody was smoking weed and they was all...

And I wasn't. I stood up in the corner and I was just standing up in the corner and I just watched them. And I watched that everybody. And I'm not... This is no, not a problem. I'm not saying people sitting smart.

I'm not doing any of that. I'm talking about what I saw. I'm not judging, right? And I was in the corner and I watched as they transform. It's not the weed, but it's what it brought out of it. You feel me? Because everybody's different.

And I watch it. Watch them transform. And I remember saying to myself, there's got to be more to life. They're sitting in this garage smoking weed. There's no way that this is it. There are people out there right now that have dreams and they're settling.

They're settling because they're afraid. They're settling because of what their friends do. They're settling because of what their aunt said. They're settling because of what their uncle said. They're settling because their father's in jail. They're settling because they got pregnant young. They're settling because this is all I know. But you have bigger dreams.

in there. Don't limit yourself. It's got there's more to your life. And dreams don't have deadlines, right? So, like, guys like Cornelius Vanderbilt, you know, he moved from steamships to railways at 80-something years old. You know, Colonel Sanders, KFC at 60-something. Yo, he was 60-something when he made

Kentucky fried chickens? Yes. Yes, you can do so. Shout out to the chef last night. Yo, Jeff made some fucking fried chicken in the grand. Yo, I got to tell you. Legend. You don't do it. I'm so hungry right now. No, no, no, you don't even understand.

He got this macaroly salad. I want some chishironi's depoyo right now. Yeah, that boy, Cornaro. That boy lit their shit up last time, man. That boy gets a fried chicken. I said, God damn, chef. This shit on fire. It ain't make your dingo.

No, that's a fried nigga chicken wing, man. I mean, me, shit. Tell us about NCI.S New York. So NCIS New York is fun because. Oh, shit, you get to work home. Huh? Yeah, yeah, because you're always somewhere else. Yeah, I did L.A. for 14 seasons.

So we did, yeah, yeah. So here we are. And New York is a whole different beast. It's a grittiest show. It's different. It's more cinematic. We shoot, you know, stages in Brooklyn. We shoot all over New York.

And it's, I mean, it's going to be a wild show. You know, myself, Scott Khan, Jennifer Beal. And General Bill, she's from fame. What a feeling. She's in that A whole lot of other great actors And it's I just think it's a spectacular show

It's gonna be on CBS Paramount CBS. It's, it premieres October 6th Yes, sir And the character is kind of He's back home But he's a little bit of a stranger In his own town We've been going along town

Things have changed Things have changed Oh, things are going to change So it's a lot of fun A lot of fun So people got to definitely check it out, man. And, you know, and you know, also, I don't know whenever this drops, but got the festival coming up,

rock the bells festivals coming up. I never get hired. I never get hired. You get this guy all the time. See, I said, appreciate that. My man, walk, you know, walk. They bullshit. I'm on you.

They don't want me. Yes, they do. Yes, they do. They want him. Yes, they do. They want him. They want, they want, they want, they want, they want, they want, they want, motherfucker.

I showed up, love. Who's on the new rockin' show me? What the thing? You just said in my job. He just said everybody every time. You're a fat sumacoon loud joke.

They're going to have you right. They're going to have you over there. They're going to have you over there. We're going to call you. You, what? Your walk. BPC. Walk.

Call my man Joe up, man. Come on. Stop playing, man. I got you. I got you. The bell's walk. Keep calling me. I love you.

I love you, Walt. Shout out Vermont. I did a concert in Vermont last week, and I was so jealous to him because he was in the ATL. I even called him. I knew his shit. He was in Bow Wow.

I had a cookout in the next day. That's crazy. Being Bowman. I always say, I go to Atlanta. I've never been to a cookout all these years. Bawawawaw called him by 2 o'clock. He laid the, it was right.

Watch the game. Let me tell you something. He didn't. I call him. I'm like, yo, stop. What's the ACL like? Right? Because it was some New York weekend.

shit. I really wanted. He was like, man, the rain, thunder, this. I said, damn, kiss. I was actually jealous. I wanted to come tear that shit down. I see you at a Woodstock type of show. You know what's up. You know what's up. You know, listen, this ain't that? That ain't this. It's cracking kiss.

Make some noise for LL, baby. Appreciate it. Yes, dude. L.L. Serving the world. What up, y'all? This your main man, Memphis Bleak right here. host of that Rock Solid podcast. And each week we bring in you exclusive looks inside music.

Everything happening inside the culture. Some of the best conversations were the biggest names in the game. You had a little bit more pressure to be good. And they didn't care if you was a girl. Like, you wasn't getting no points. If you're not trash, you better be not just good. You better be great. Listen to Rock Solid on Black Effect Podcast Network,

iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you streamed podcasts. I'm Kerry Champion, and in this new season of biggest rivalries of all time podcast, we take you back to the very first rivalry of the WNBA. The Comets were the real deal. I mean, come on. The Liberty was just tough. Oh, God. The New York Liberty versus the Houston Comets.

When we hit the floor, it was hot, heated, fights, elbows, competition, trash talking. Who is the better team? People live, but numbers don't. Listen to biggest rivalries of all time on the Ruffalo. High Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The WNBA playoffs are here, and Good Game with Sarah Spain is the only daily podcast that'll keep you up to date on all the action. We'll make sure you're the smartest fan at the bar by bringing you interviews with some

of the best minds in basketball, including your favorite coaches and players. No one cares what we did last year, if anything, that's a bigger target on our back. Want to know what's really going on in the WNBA? We got you. Listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've been hearing for decades that the markets can solve climate change. Today, we have more incentives for market solutions than ever, and emissions are rising.

On this season of Drilled, Carbon Cowboys, the story of three market solutions colliding in one multinational boondoggle. You've got to give Bruce of the guy's credit. They're Republican kids. They don't give a shit of money. It's now. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. your podcasts.