Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - 316 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Joel Turner Et al.

Episode Date: February 25, 2023

www.JREreview.com Thanks to this weeks sponsors:  Hello Fresh Go to www.hellofresh.com/jrer65 and use code JRER65 for 65% off plus FREE shipping  For all marketing questions and inquiries: [e-mail] This week we discuss Joe's podcast guests as always. Review Guest list: Mark Greaney and Joel Turner A portion of ALL our SPONSORSHIP proceeds goes to Justin Wren and his Fight for the Forgotten charity!! Go to Fight for the Forgotten to donate directly to this great cause.  This commitment is for now and forever. They will ALWAYS get money as long as we run ads so we appreciate your support too as you listeners are the reason we can do this. Thanks! Stay safe.. Follow me on Instagram at www.instagram.com/joeroganexperiencereview Please email us here with any suggestions, comments and questions for future shows.. [e-mail]

Hey guys and welcome to another episode of the JRE review finishing up the week with Mark Greeney and Joel Turner. Got some highlights for Mark. He is the author of the Gray Man. Probably seen that movie on Netflix, obviously the books are a lot different. He's written like eight of those. Discusses a lot of the writing process, getting into that. So if you're into writing, that's some interesting parts. What do you got highlights Todd? Oh, this one was cool, man. I enjoyed hearing about his just in Postor syndrome. I think a lot

of creatives have that. So there's a bullet point there. Roger Ebert's screenplay. Oh yeah. Hilarious. Right. And making books with audio and noises and different actors for when you listen to them on Audible. That was pretty cool too. And then for Joel Turner, shot IQ system, which if you're into shooting, archery, precision movements, he has like a breakdown for it, and then some SWAT team events, some crazy ass stories in there. Yeah, talking about not being in the moment and just reacting, I think was probably the coolest point and they talked about that a lot of just really how to control your anxiety and those high stress situations.

So let's get into it, bra. You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience podcast and pass them on to you, perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's walking dead. You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created.

Now with your hosts, Adam Thorn. Might either be the worst podcast with the best one or the best one. One, go. Draw the show. Now I was interested to hear a lot of your feedback on Mark Greenery because, you know, you're a writer. You've been publishing a magazine, Bomsnow Magazine for how many years?

Bomsnow.com, 15 years buddy Yeah, close to 16 now a long time. Ever since college. So you know when I when I'm listening to a writer come on and talk about the process and mostly what I hear is just like how you need to be consistent He sit down. They they give themselves like a word prompt and they go for obviously we stand up comedy It's a little different. That's probably more on the end of writing that I've done You can't give yourself like a word limit. You're lucky to get Any kind of jokes and everyone has different processes for that But there was there was a consistency that needed to happen, you know

It was like multiple times a week. I had to sit down and I'm like, okay, blank sheet in front of me and start putting some ideas together. And it's, it's hard. Yeah, well, without a deadline, I mean, I was laughing when he said that because the guys written what like 30 something books or it's crazy. It's almost two a year or something.

And, you know, he didn't get published until later in life. He always had imposter syndrome, which I think a lot of creatives have that. But what was most interesting to me with his creative process, and I can totally relate to this, is that if I don't have a deadline, it will not get done. And he was laughing to himself about it, saying, hey, if I didn't have the deadlines on all these gray man series books, then they would have never gotten done. I'd still be on my first book.

And the dude's written so many books now, he just needs a deadline. So I hear that one loud and clear. I relate to that if I don't have a hard deadline. The other thing is, you know, he has a deadline from his publishers, which is important, right? He's not making the deadline himself. The problem I get into with my writing process is we create our own magazine. And there's no one telling us

that it has to be done by this date. We're creating the deadline. So even though there's a deadline for my process, it's still hard to hit because I can push. It's a little flexible. I mean, if we have like a party or an event and we put it out to the world like, hey, we're gonna have a magazine release party,

that's kind of a hard deadline, right? So that helps. You have to have a hard deadline though. I think a lot of creatives need that. Or else you will just sit and stare at the fucking blank page and go watch Netflix or go workout or do all the other things that you're gonna productively procrastinate your way through life and not get

your stuff you need to get done. Do you think after listening to Mark that it could maybe change your process if you put hard to deadlines on and I mean there's so much that goes into the magazine. I obviously just watch you from the outside. I'm here at the studio, but that's not my job. I do podcasting, but you've got so many moving pieces that kind of have flexible deadlines in themselves that I could imagine is probably pretty hard to have like this is the date. But do you think that from hearing and talk and also knowing

how prolific he has been, which is really benefited him. Absolutely. That you could hone that process at all. I think the best way for me to hone it is have other deadlines from other clients, right? We're not just creating a magazine. We also have other clients that we're working with. So, scheduling those out, those are hard deadlines, right?

And because of those hard deadlines, we actually have to hit our deadline a little bit more consistently on our own magazine, right? So that will definitely help, yes. And I think, to my point with Greeney, if those publishers weren't giving those deadlines and he was doing it himself, then like he said, he wouldn't have gotten anything done. So, I need other clients to have deadlines for me so that my deadlines have to be a little bit more consistent, right?

So, I'm not screwing up projects for other people I've promised stuff on. Right. Yeah. I wonder how it affects the overall product in terms of having a deadline, right? Because like you said, it's a creative process. He has to come up with these stories of the Gray Man, right? This kind of like superhuman badass

that can just whoop everyone's ass. He's like a Jason Bourne type character. And like you said, if he didn't have the deadlines, he'd only be on two books. But would those books then be that much better? Because in a sense, he's just allowed stories to come out when they're ready in himself. Or does that pressure actually kind of combine? I think the pressure helps.

I think it's the same thing. You just have to get started. As a creative, once people start, they'll get focused. It's the starting, like the blank page, like you said. If you're staring at a blank page and you can't get something out, you gotta wait to just start writing. And even if it's shit at first, it's going to get better once you start. And then I think, no matter what, deadline or no deadline, I think once he gets into it, just like most creatives, they get excited,

ideas start coming to him. It reminds me of Steven Pressfield, what he says. It's like the muse will come in, the flow will start. You just have to fight the resistance. And they didn't talk much about resistance. I'm actually surprised Rogan didn't bring that up. Yeah, it is kind of interesting that he didn't bring some of that up, to be honest, because it's so directly related.

I'm pretty sure that's what Pressfield was writing about period, right? Is the right... This fighting that... This fighting through the resistance. Well, he would make himself right every morning, right? He'd sit down at his desk, he'd, you know, he had his routine. I can't remember exactly what his routine was, but it'd sit down at his desk, he had his routine. I can't remember exactly what his routine was, but it was sitting down at a desk,

I think at like 9 a.m. every morning, and just starting to write. I think everyone, and Greene mentioned this as well, is having, being insecure as a writer, as a creative, he has this imposter syndrome, but he was saying he hates 90% of the time. He hates what he's written until like maybe the last, you know, before he turns it in, he kind of maybe starts honing, you know, the editing process and changing things a little bit, but that impostor syndrome is really hard for him. And then he said he's always had it. I mean, he mentioned that he was missing,

missing, not interviews, but when his agent would have something set up for him to go talk to a publisher, he'd stay in his hotel room. I mean, wow, and to think how successful this guy is now with that bad, you know, that kind of social anxiety looming over him, that's impressive. Yeah.

I mean, he worked through it somehow. I was laughing because he was a single guy, what, till he was 39 or something, and now he has two step kids, a wife, two dogs, and he's like, I don't know what happened, I got so stressed. Yeah. His doctor's like, dude, you just need to work out. Uh-huh.

You got a lot on your plate, bro. I mean, he was working in a bar till he, you know, well into his thirties. I mean, the responsibility changed there is huge. And, you know, this is the life he wants. He wanted to be an author that's respected and has all these opportunities working with Tom Clancy, one of his heroes. I mean, he's got to do some amazing things and having multiple movies made of your work. Big deal.

But it's also like, in some ways, like careful what you wish for. Because this is like, in a sense, the life he would want, the dream life, and with it comes a lot of stress. Once that ball starts moving, he can't not write books now. He can't not keep up with the things that he's doing. He has to.

No, I mean, I'm sure he's under contract for years for the series that he's making. No doubt. Now, do you find a similar thing with your magazine? Like let's say you're about to go to print your 98% on and then you just look at it and you're like, it's all a whole shit because I percent on and then you just look at it and you're like, it's all horseshit because I feel like when people make a really good product book magazine whatever. Like what makes it so good is that they're highly critical of themselves all the way through. Rogan talks about that constantly with stand up. He's his own worst critic. Absolutely. All creatives are aren't they? was critic. Absolutely. All creatives are, aren't they? Well, the good ones, I would imagine. It is never finished, right? It's never finished. And that's why those deadlines are so important. I think for me, I could spend another three weeks when the magazine's 99% done and has to go

to the printer the next day. I would love to be able to spend more time every single time. Like, it never feels done. But you know, that's just part of the creative process, man. Well, that, okay, so that's part of the process, is it? That's how you get. When I say part of the process, I just mean I think all creatives are never, it's never good enough, right? It's never good enough.

I think, I mean, that's me just talking out loud. I'm not, you know, speaking with creatives every single day, but most of the creatives I know are very hard on themselves. Well, something that Mark said reminded me of you as well, when he said, you know, you read through the book right before you send it to the editor, and then he looks at it, and then there's someone else that checks to make sure the words, you know, everything's good.

Copy editor. Yeah. And then they still find some words that are wrong. Yeah. And how many thousand there's like three that are in the wrong place. And I've seen you do that as soon as you get the magazine back from the printer, you're just like, you just go, that your phone should be on vibrate, okay, you're a professional.

Switch it out, but it's on time. But yeah, you'll find words right away. You're like, damn it, that one's wrong. I do it. I do it every time I read a book, too. Yeah, I'm looking at it, and I'm like, this is great, this whole magazine looks fantastic, but my eyes are not, you're there to like find the imperfections.

Whereas, you know, it's just a fan of bombsnow. I can just look at it and go, oh, I love this. I love this issue, this article and these pictures, and I'm looking for the good bits. Well, that's good to hear. And I, hopefully, most people are just looking at the photos. Anyways, they're probably not reading it. It's brought, yeah, it's true. I mean, we always say we like to hide meaningful stories behind pictures of, you know, fun things, like snowboarding, skiing, surf, art, lots of fun things. And then if you dig in and you start reading, there's a lot of meaningful stories in there and long format stuff.

But you're right. When I get that magazine back from the copy editor and our editor, and we could read, we could both read over. We've actually had this happen before. The three of us have read the same story one after another, and we've missed in the title, we missed a word, it was spelled wrong. Howley, which is a Hawaiian word for white boy basically, right? It's for, if we spell the HOA LE, and it's supposed to be HOLE, we all missed it. This is in the title of the story. It's the headline of the story, and it went to print.

And we're just laughing about it. How did we miss this? So you're always going to find those things. I think the important thing is, I don't want to say good enough. You say this a lot, like it's good enough and you just get out, but I think a lot of creative, stall, and I've done this before. It's never, when it's never good enough, then it never gets done or it never gets out, right?

I do this with my newsletter. There's like a perfectionism aspect too. The perfectionism will kill the process because it won't get out ever. It's never gonna get done. It seems like perfectionism is so closely connected to procrastination. Anybody that ever describes themselves

as a perfectionist to me, all the biggest procrastinators I know. Yeah, and it's this worry that it's not good enough, right? It's this worry that what you're putting out is a part of you because you're an artist, whether you're a writer or you're creating a magazine or you're creating a painting, right? But it's fun to realize that like you said, most people, 90% of the people either reading it or looking at it or flipping through the pages or looking at a piece of art on the wall,

will never notice the imperfections that the person who created it will notice every time. No matter what. Yeah, yeah. So just get it out and move on to the next. It's almost when Rogan always talks about not looking at the comments. It's like, why read the magazine

more than once and find more imperfections? It's just going to upset you. It's already printed. It's already out to the people. No one else has ever pointed out, hey, did you see that spelling mistake in the last bomb snow magazine? No one has ever said that to me other than maybe one of the writers who wrote it. And it's like, well, okay, we both miss that, okay, we're going to have to do better next time. Maybe we need to read through it more than once, or maybe just not procrastinate until, you know, two or three days before you go to print, maybe read the entire magazine weeks before you go to print and really focus on that because, you know, when you're on deadline, you're stressed and you're going to miss things.

You're always going to miss things when you're tired. You're always going to miss things when you're stressed out. They bring it back to greenie, man. He talks about that stress and Rogan's always talking about how, like you said, he's stressed out on stage a lot. This goes into our next guest, Joel, you know getting through that anxiety somehow having a way to breathe or think about breathing or think about Not being scared because it's gonna ruin the entire thing. You can't be on stage scared. You're gonna you're gonna bomb. Yeah

and You know you can't really be scared when you're writing you have to get into that flow somehow and get it out and Well Mark said it was affecting his memory, right? They he had some stresses. Yeah, you know with his family. Yeah Families a huge responsibility when you haven't had one there's a lot of moving pieces a lot of things organized plus the deadlines and He's like my memory is failing. I thought it was cool that deadlines and he's like my memory is failing. I thought it was cool that Rogan was like, yeah, let's get you some alpha brain.

Got some new tropics. Yeah, he probably gave him a year's supply, all more. I mean, Rogan, you want to try it. You tried it? You know, I did get a bottle when it very first came out. And maybe I, yeah, I think I took like the whole first month. I don't really remember the effects, but I do know plenty of people that take it. And they do swear by it.

I mean, yesterday we had a meeting. And a friend of us said that he's been stressed a lot recently and he's just started grad school. And there's been a bit of a struggle and adjustment and he's been getting some brain fog and he started taking it and he said very quickly it made like a noticeable difference. There's like some lion's mane and some mushrooms and stuff in there too right? I think yeah it's like all that neutropics stuff. St. John's work or something too is supposed to help with concentration and yeah there's all sorts of stuff. I, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

I'd recommend it to anybody that is getting a load of brain fog. You know, it reminded me of sometimes you need to step back and get help, right? From other people who are maybe, you know, have that memory, or are a little bit more excited to maybe get you through some of those times where you're not feeling up to writing or you're not feeling excited about it. Greeney was chatting about liking a lot of the stuff that happened in the movie, but also disliking it, but then remembering, hey man, this is my writing and some of the stuff that they changed in this movie is actually better than the storyline that I came up with

and some of it is worse and just rolling with it. Like, hey man, this is really cool that my work of art that was on the printed page is now a full-on movie with Ryan Goslin. I thought it was a cool movie. It was a cool idea. I didn't even know when I watched it that there was this like series of books.

And it does seem like it's got to be difficult to go from a book to a movie, you know, because they just can't, they have to squeeze so much in. And what sounds cool in text for your imagination. Like, as you're reading, you're putting images in a story together, like building your own movie in your mind, as you look kind of read along. It's going to look different when you make a movie. There's things that they've got to capture your

attention within that two hours or however long the movie is. And a lot of that is visuals. Well, it doesn't even have to be spoken word or dialogue. I mean, the gray man guy didn't say a lot, the whole movie. Also, he was mostly just kind of, how would I describe it? He was just quiet. And it was just like, I didn't see it.

Just kind of like his curiosity almost, the would come across. I thought it was cool to hear the difference between a movie, right? And then also having his book turned into an audible, you know, a narrated book that you can listen to online and how how but they actually added in different actors For the characters and so they created different characters. It wasn't just one Person reading it and then also some sound effects and stuff. That's pretty cool. Which is great It just makes the it makes the listening more enjoyable. It reminded me of the Beastie boys Book that came out that must have came out like five years ago,

but it was a, you know, just talked about their life. It was an autobiography of basically the entire band. And each chapter was read by one of their friends or someone who was involved in the actual chapter. So they would talk about like stories that had happened to that particular person and they're reading that chapter. That's a cool one. So like Rick Rubin was one of the guys who read a chapter and you know

a ton of people like everyone loves the Beastie Boys right if you don't love the Beastie Boys we're not friends But like it's just cool to see it in different forms. It's like this dude wrote a book Then there's an audible book with different characters and sound effects and stuff to make it interesting and then there's a movie I mean how rare is that? Yeah. And like you should be brought up the Clancy thing. And they talked about Stephen King a lot too, which Joe is always talking about how his books suck after he got sober. Well, they were different. But you know, his process was a lot different than most. I mean, obviously it was drug and doose most of the time for King and his books are amazing.

Early on, yeah. Early on. But they talked about, my point was as they talked about how the shining was so much different than the actual book and people loved that movie. Yeah. You know, I haven't read the book. I think they really like it. Who didn't?

Stephen King didn't like the movie. He didn't like the movie, right? Well, because it sounded like they changed the narrative so much. Yeah. Who was the director of that one? Stanley Kubrick. Yeah. And I, there's kind of, I don't know if it's like an official act, but there's like rumors that Stanley even put things in that were like purposely designed to annoy Stephen King. For example, they're driving in, and I think a VW bug, which might be yellow or it might

be white, I don't know, but in the novel, it was the other color, VW, and it crashed off to the side of the road and they drive by it And it's just in the storm and the idea was really the the Stanley is just saying to Stephen King like oh that's that's your story right crashed and now his mine It's kind of cool which is frickin awesome because Stanley Kubrick is amazing. He would do something like that too He he like like that do something like that too. He liked fucking things like that. And then really that whole movie as well,

the shining had a bunch of, they even did a documentary that had a bunch of, kind of set pieces that were like, supposed to relate to some of the Apollo missions. Like, there was, there's like a conspiracy with all that. No, there's some, I'm looking it up right now. It says, here's why Stephen King hates Stanley Kubrick, Kubrick's version of the shining. Let's see.

Anyways. I think the documentary was on Netflix or you can find it and it's just about the story and all of the kind of secret coded messages that are put throughout like the number of the door of the hotel room and there was just a bunch of stuff. It was really interesting. But you could imagine as a writer and you're Steven King, I mean, you're going to love your novels. Of course.

And to see it get changed, I'm just surprised that it gets changed so much. Well, I think that's Kubrick, you know, it's like you just said he was taking control. It was almost like he's messing with with King a little bit. He's like, look, I'm the movie maker here. You're the writer, dude. I bought your script. This is my movie. I'm the frickin' man. I'm Stanley Kubrick. Yeah. And it's kind of funny. And I think it is, you know, greenie even said it. He was like, look, at the

end of the day, I sell the rights. And I don't put in the contract. Also, you can't change all these different things. He's like, it might not buy. That's how you don't sell your script. There we go. Well, he says right here, the major reason he was upset about Kubrick's change all these different things. He's like, they might not buy that's how you don't sell your script. There we go. Well, he says right here, the major reason he's, he was upset about Kubrick's version is that there's too many discrepancies between the book and the film. One major difference that King disliked was the role of the supernatural in the film in the book. King heavily focuses on the supernatural forces beyond Jack's control that changed him. So the over-local tell is painted as being a supremely evil place, right, in the book.

However, in the film, the supernatural forces are downplayed and the evil seems to come directly from Jack. So he changed the entire process. That's a huge change, right? Yeah. It's like you're turning something around and blaming it on the character instead of the supernatural, which is what was fucking with his brain in the book.

Still great though. What a movie. Still great. It actually reminds me of one flip over the cook who's nest. So that was one of my favorite movies, Growing Up for whatever reason. I think my buddy's dad had it on film or something and we watched it. We loved it. It's like seventh grade.

But anyways, I read the book later. Like in high school, I ended up reading the book and I loved the book even more than the movie. But I also loved the movie. And I can see why they did what they did in the movie. And a lot of it has to do with timing, right? You know, a book can have way more information than a movie. But look, man, they're two different genres.

It's almost like the only way to make a good novel into a show or a movie is to have it be like a mini series. You've got to have a long go. So it can be in from the long goads. Yeah, it's just that. It's like you just need more time and that's hard to kind of fit that stuff in. Let me ask you this about the Tom Clancy thing so Mark never really Said why he was brought on you know, obviously to help Tom like right and as he was getting older

Maybe maybe he just needed some support with with writing but although maybe he just needed some support with writing. But that's kind of interesting that he would bring someone on. And then I guess Mark just kind of learned how to write in that style. So it continued with the kind of same setup. Yeah. Well, same characters. He knew the characters. I think he said the first book he ever read was a Tom Clancy book when he was 18 Mm-hmm the Patriot games, right

Yeah, I didn't realize a lot of like so many writers do that They actually have other writers help them with series whether it's for health reasons or getting older like in Tom's case Just save some time maybe I mean it can't be all about money, but I'm sure he's making, still making a pretty penny off those books. Tom Clancy still has his name on him. Well, he's passed away now. Well, right, but, but he's family.

Yeah. And didn't he mention he's like, still works with his wife and has a good relationship with Tom's wife? Well, he's still writing those books. Right. But, but you know, Tom Clancy's family is getting a lot of money from that. No doubt. You're on your deathbed, you're an amazing writer.

You're like, shit man, if I want to keep providing for my family while I'm dead, I'm going to find somebody who can write like me. It's smart. It's a great idea. I mean, I think it happens a lot more than we know. So what does that mean? We could have Tom Clancy books forever technically they could just Just keep the other doors going right? I mean, you're just using the same characters, right?

Yeah, and he could mark it even train up somebody else and then continue on. Yeah, and then it's just you know Well, what he mentioned with Was it they were talking about Batman as well, but they talked about the double of seven films, right? It's like, if James Bond was a person, still, he'd be like 120 years old or something. And we're totally fine with it. And yeah, we still. We know that even questions it.

They could, I mean, they're replacing Bond right now. I don't think they've picked anybody. But yeah, if they pick someone like really young, no one's going to question it. It'd just be like, yeah, of course. Hey, man, just goes to show you make characters that people love. I mean, does that mean somebody is going to take over for J.K. Rowling? I mean, she hasn't made a Perry Potter.

She's done making Harry Potter, right? I think they're making a new movie based on, um, I think they did making a new movie. Are they? Based on, I think they did like a Broadway show. And they're bringing them back like older. There's just too much money then. They're not gonna stop doing it. That's a cool old mine. Look, if people are gonna buy the books, people are gonna buy the books.

So if J.K. Rowling, let's say, you know, she gets older and wants to do the same thing. I think it honestly, it just depends on the writer, right? Mm-hmm. But it's a cool idea. I mean, people will buy those books, whether they're written by J.K. Rowling or not, because it's just you're just using the same characters

and just creating a new plot. Yeah, it's kind of cool. Yeah. Anyway, I like Mark a lot. I like that he's really leaning into his workouts and exercise. Again, that's an important message for like, hey, how to balance stress and how to make yourself feel better. And he says, every day, it doesn't matter. I workout. I go do something. I don't think about it. I get it done. And it kind of highlights that is it more important than

the writing that he does? I think it's equally as important. He more important than the writing that he does? I think it's equally as important. He has to do the writing, that's the work, but what gets him there, what gets him clear enough to get the work done, is, you know, he gets that energy out, that anxiety. Yeah. Well, you can't write under stress.

And when your body feels better, and you are physically healthier, you're going to be able to do all the types of work that you do more efficiently. There's just no way around it. I like it. Well, I look forward to his second movie. I think I'm going to check out one of those books. I was kind of put off when Rogam was like, I'm on your eighth book. I'm like, shit, I got to read eight, but I don't have to, right? I can just read a couple and see how they are, but they sound decent. I want to check them out.

All right, let's jump over to Joel Turner. Good old Joel. Joel. Well, he definitely looks like a cop. He's got the look. If you guys watch the video along with this, then solid mustache. Yeah. Well done, Joe. Well done, Joe. He's getting a lot of critters out there. I'd like to know how many critters he's killed.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say the word critter as much as Sam. I, you know, look, just as someone who didn't know who this guy was, and I can appreciate the idea behind, you know, trying to control your shot, but it was a little hard to listen to for three hours because they kept going over and over and over. I do like what they were talking about, but it became a little redundant. But look, there was some great stuff in there. But you're also not a hunter. Yeah, but my brother is and I appreciate it.

I love eating elk. I'll help you carry one out of the woods. I'm just not gonna shoot one. Yeah. But I mean, you know one out of the woods. I'm just not gonna shoot one. Yeah. But I mean, you know, take your brother in law, Jake. I shoot bows with him all the time through this summer. Yeah. We do it and we love it.

So it really stands out for that because those nuances that they were talking about, like preparing yourself, talking yourself through it. I mean, it's hard to kind of explain to somebody what goes on in one of those shots. I mean, I can understand it. Yeah, but I think that that's just part of where maybe some people got lost on it.

But it's fascinating, just even if you're not a hunter and you've never picked up a bow or you don't do any shooting just a think of that process like put yourself in that mindset of especially with bow hunting you could have been out there for four days of camping and walking around or like just Up in a tree stand or just hidden out somewhere just waiting for one moment. And then if you missed that shot, how freaking annoying is that? You're unlikely to get another one in the day. You know, you're gonna clear out that area and if there's so much goes into it.

And obviously you've practiced a lot, but think about it, hitting a target is like you can rattle off 10 shots in, you know, 30 minutes, just bang, bang, bang, not even. You're just hitting a target. Doesn't mean anything. You just, and every time you might be like right way, you need to be, but now all of a sudden it's an animal that you've waited for.

And it's, you know, bugling and the tension. Oh, you're adrenaline is spike. Your heart rate is trying to down. Yeah. And it's super important to have, you know, these processes like his shot IQ to be like, okay, everything's hyped, crazy, you know, I'm tense, and now I've got to talk myself

through this process to kind of get me there. Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, do you have a process for when you're bohunting? Do you have a talk? I really know. I mean, I think that what I do is, I just actively try to tell myself, it's just a shot like any other shot. It's just a tug.

I try to take that pressure off myself. I don't know how effective that is though, but it seems to kind of calm me down a little bit. I'm like, it's just a shot. I take shots. You are telling that. So you're having to do something. Right. I can't imagine, yeah, I can't, I just know that I would fuck it up immediately if I didn't speak through something. But hearing how they do it and how systematic it is, they create a blueprint for just walking through all the positions, I think that having something really intent to think about probably does calm you down quite a lot.

You got to get rid of the buck fever, dude. Oh, yeah, that's crazy. Because you see it and you're like, I may never get this shot again and then you rush everything. That's so common. It's almost like they should start a new target practice spot, like at an archery place, right, where they have real mountain lions and animals running past you right as you're trying to get ready for your shot. And then you'll be fucking good. Here we go. Let's not tell Bobby before he shoots today that we're going to unleash a mountain

lion in front of his target. See what happens. I think it might be a big liability issue if they did that, but it would be fun to watch it. Hey, you get some decoys, dude. I don't know anything to spike your heart rate. It's gonna be make you a better shooter. Uh-huh. Well, it's almost like, you know, what a process could be is like,

you've gotta go do some spread drills. And then when you, you know, jacked, and your heart rates through the roof and you're super pumped, then you've got to stop and take a shot and I bet you'd find it's so different. And that's probably closer to what you're actually going to experience. Okay, so every hunter out there needs to join a biathalon and skate ski to your next target, right?

There you go. Their heart rate is jacked, dude. They had just been skiing for like 20 kilometers and then they have to lay down and hit three rifle shots to the direct bullseye. Yeah, that shit, I've never had to talk about that. I do that with archery like that. That seems like that would make that so much harder.

Yeah, dude, you're called sport too. If you think about sports, it's like combining two different things that don't seem related at all. I mean, I sports, it's like combining two different things that don't seem related at all. I mean, I guess maybe this is like how people in freaking Denmark or Sweden or whatever would like hunt in the winter, but it's like the fact that that's an Olympic sport, a winter Olympic sport just seems kind of odd. It's like, why isn't there skiing and juggling, man? If we're just like combining two things that aren't that related.

Like, isn't there just be that? Hey, skiing and juggling would be fun. Yeah. Ska-glin. Ska-glin. The roots of Biaflon evolved in the Norwegian army during the 18th century, but the sports more media genesis stems from an obscure ski manual prepared for the Russian military in 1912 Weird fun facts. There you go. There we go. I'll be your Jamie today, bud. It kind of reminds me of like the summer

Event where they like they're running, but there's that bit where they have to jump over the like a log and then there's Water behind it. It's like a log and then there's water behind it. It's like a little puddle. Yeah, this is about dude. This is a real thing It's just like a long distance race, but they do it on the track and there's just this bit where they have to jump over like a log and there's there's like a thing of water. This is not in the Olympic. I'm not near on this. No way. way. I know break dancing is now gonna be in the Olympics, which is freaking awesome. I will definitely be watching that. We talked about that, yeah.

It is, man, I'll look it up. All right, what else about this guy stood out? I think the biggest thing is, we all have this stress response. It's ingrained within us from when we were getting chased by Sabretooth Tigers, you know, this stress response, it's ingrained within us from when we were getting chased by saber-toothed tigers, you know, and it comes up in different situations all the time, whether it's a traffic jam or, you know, your child's screaming at you or whatever. I mean,

it's, whatever it is, the stress response is going to be the same and you have to figure out a way to control it, whether you're trying to shoot an animal or, you know, be on stage and have to, you know, do a set and not bomb. You have to figure out a way to whether it's breathing or telling yourself some sort of mantra to keep you calm. Maybe before you get on stage or like doing a bunch of push-ups, like Joe said any time said this over and over and over anytime. He is so anxious the biggest curious to just kick his own ass in the gym and It does kind of relate to this a little bit It's just you're just getting rid of that anxiety that's bound to happen no matter what and if you can somehow focus and get into a more meditative

And if you can somehow focus and get into a more meditative state, they didn't call it a flow state, but that's what I'll call it. You're gonna make a good shot because you're gonna be concentrated. Yeah. But you have to have some sort of mantra that you tell yourself, like, okay, pull the bow back, breathe it. What do you say, Remi Warren says, be the arrow? That says mantra? Yeah. So just- Like very Bruce Lee.

I think to me, it's cool that that relates to so many other things in life. And Joe was trying to point that out. I think after they talked about the same thing for so long, he was trying to kind of get something more substantial. How it relates to other things? Well, you know, Joel said that there's no, he doesn't think there's any natural shooters. There's just natural decision makers. And I thought that was really cool. It's like the difference between knowing when to do it. And the decision has to be an active process. Oh, the event's called the steeper chase.

I must have seen this. I have never seen that. It's a real thing. No freaking thing. And it's so odd. It's like, why is there a bit of water and a log that you got to jump over in the middle of an event? Yeah. And they didn't want skateboarding in the Olympics, but they have runners jumping

over logs on a track with water. Sounds like a strange super old event. Anyway, maybe Frogger will be next. We'll just start dodging cars on the freeway as an Olympic event. That could be, that would be amazing. People would watch the shit out of it. Real life Frogger. Got to jump over logs in a river.

It sounds hectic. The SWAT story. You know, it's always interesting to hear kind of those stories break down. I mean, does it ever become normalized for those guys? Probably not. I mean, that's a wild job. Imagine how super stressful that is. But you know, talking he's on a ladder, he, there's a wild job. Imagine how super stressful that is. But you know, talking he's on a ladder, he, there's a hostage issue.

The, this dad has his daughter there. I mean, it's time to kind of make that happen. He can't really reach his rifle for some reason because the angle he's at. So he's like, okay, I gotta use my hang gun. Right. That's not really that good for sh- Facurant things.

Not accurate, yeah. Shooting hang-guns is hard as hell. I mean, it really is very difficult. And especially in that. And it's like one that has like a laser sight on it, you know, or like the red dot. It's, I swear to God, it's like 10 times easier. If you're just pointing it and like using the kind of

little crappy sights that hang- hang guns have anyway, dude. I can miss those things all day long. I'm terrible at it. Well, it's embarrassing. Especially if you're on a ladder and you have real people involved in a hostage and a little girl and a dad. I mean, you're gonna, yeah, I can't imagine, but that was his, that was his, the harbinger moment for him, right? It was like, that was the catalyst for him. It changed, it basically created this shot IQ.

He's like, okay, I can't mess this up. Yeah. So that's cool. I mean, it's cool that it's crazy as that situation he was in. It's cool that it happened to him because now he's helping other people create this process so that they don't fuck those

sort of situations up as much. I mean, there's always going to be screw ups and we're going to not hit the target. But minimizing it is, I mean, he created a system that he was able to teach his kid and his kid could hit a penny 60 times with an hour. 60 times in a row. That is insane. Like, I can't even begin to imagine how difficult that is. Did they say how far away it was?

They did, but I don't know if I wrote it down. Probably like 30, 40 yards, like that type of a shot. But God, even at 10 yards, that's insane. A penny is so small. There's an arrow. Yeah. I mean, think about the whole mechanism of a bow as compared to, you know, a rifle that you have a stand for. I mean, then it's just about, and I'm not saying shooting with

a rifle is that easy, either, but it's much easier. You just like put it there. You keep adjusting it and then breathe and get the crosshairs on it. I mean, holding the bow, your arm is out straight. The bows aren't light. You've got pullback, which takes tension. So now you have tension while lining these things up. You've got to know where the dials are because each one is like different yardage. There's just so much more that goes into it. Follow through. Yeah. You know, because you can find that thing and then move of the bow like right away at the end and you'll completely jack your shot up. Well, especially if you're at my target

shooting range where I would sick kujo on you while you're trying to set up your shot so that you could get into the process of yeah. shot IQ that would be too much I think his kid would hit 60 the penny 60 times in a row if he if a dog was chasing him it's probably not dude and I don't know if this is a good idea if you just set this shooting range up okay just use decoys though something I mean I'm feeling like this is a good idea well it could be like be like in those video games, pop up bad guys. There you go. Just out of nowhere. Well, they do that with cops, right? They have the bad guys pop up. But I don't know if they really do that. I think that's just for like movies.

Do you really think they have like things they walk through and stuff pops up? I sure hope so because they need to be in a simulation that's more high stress rather than just sitting and shooting at a target for an hour. Yeah, but they're just pictures of people. It's not very realistic. Yeah, but when they pop up, it's like Jack in the box. It's always gonna scare you, dude, no matter what.

I mean, it sounds fun. It sounds fun. Well, anyway, check those two out. If you are interested in the creative process of writing and all the rest of it, Mark is grateful for that one. Anything about shooting, if you're curious about bow hunting or you're a fan of it anyway, I mean go check out a system, shot IQ. He's got a great website. He did spell the word process wrong on the front of his website. So maybe we're email him and let him know about that. But that's only because we're great copy editors here at the Bumps and other studios. Thank you guys. As always, we appreciate you and we'll talk to you next week. Peace out.