Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - 330 Joe Rogan Experience Review of James Reed Et al.

Episode Date: May 26, 2023

www.JREreview.com For all marketing questions and inquiries: [e-mail] This week we discuss Joe's podcast guests as always. Review Guest list:  Dr. James Reed, Jack Carr and Jelly Roll A portion of ALL our SPONSORSHIP proceeds goes to Justin Wren and his Fight for the Forgotten charity!! Go to Fight for the Forgotten to donate directly to this great cause.  This commitment is for now and forever. They will ALWAYS get money as long as we run ads so we appreciate your support too as you listeners are the reason we can do this. Thanks! Stay safe.. Follow me on Instagram at www.instagram.com/joeroganexperiencereview Please email us here with any suggestions, comments and questions for future shows.. [e-mail]

A ver, ¿cómo es posible que llegues a casa de trabajar y bajes tan contento al trastero? A mover una bicicleta a rastrar dos cajas de libros y levantar un ordo microondas. Ah, para coger una chancla. Ah, vale, vale. ¿A dónde vas? ¿Tú con ese chancla, eh? ¿A dónde vas tru? Llega al mejor momento del año. Llegan tus vacaciones. Este uno de Julio sortió extraordinario de vacaciones de Lotería Nacional con 20 millones aún decimos. Lo terías de recuerda que juegas con responsabilidad y solo si eres

mayor de edad. And we're bringing in our buddy, Aaron, who is former special forces guy. So we're gonna talk some Jack Carr and also delve into James Reed's chimp empire because after I watched that documentary, I was like, this seems like a full-time military operation and I can't speak to it. So let's go.

You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience podcast and pass them on to you, perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's walking dead. You're listening to the Joe Rogan experience review. What a bizarre thing we've created.

Now with your hosts, Adam Thorn. Might either be the worst but casual with the best one. Two, one, go. Draw the show. Oh, James Reid. I did not know that he did the octopus teacher. Oh buddy. My octopus teacher. That movie, which they did not talk about, but that movie, I haven't seen the chimp movie

that you guys both watched it and we'll talk, we'll delve into that. But man, the octopus teacher was also such an incredible movie. What did you like about it? Dude, this this gentleman, I can't think of his name as South African guy lived right on the ocean there like near the cape somewhere. I think it was I can't remember I think it was on the Atlantic He goes Every single day he dives down. He has no equipment. So he's using his breath He can hold his he can hold his breath under water for like four minutes or something crazy now Was that because the sc the equipment and the bubbles and stuff for having scuba equipment just freaked him out. I don't know.

But it took this guy, I mean, months before the octopus would trust him. So he would go down there and see the same octopus all the time. Every day he would go. For a year he did it for a year and they filmed every single day. And they were best fans. By the end of it they were homies. Wow. Unreal. I think that's what I'm saying. the same octopus all the time. Every day he would go for a year, he did it for a year, and they filmed every single day. And they were best fans? By the end of it, they were homies.

Wow. Unreal. What did the octopus teach him? Well, you're going to have to watch the movie, but I mean, what I learned from it, I mean, dude, I cried. Okay. It's a freaking tear jerker. You would. It's a tear jerker.

The octopus learned to trust this guy and you know I didn't realize octopus octopuses. Octopies. Octopies are extremely smart. Mm-hmm. I did not know. Yeah. Extremely. Extremely smart. Mm-hmm. Not sure if they're any smarter than pigs. I don't know. I've also heard pigs and dolphins are extremely smart. Either way, dude, they have this bond and their friends. And by the end of the movie, this octopus, trust this human being so much that he's like hugging him. They're like literally underwater,

like he's like laying on top of him. Wow, it's unreal. That's cool. But let's get into the chimps. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, he's like an animal documentarian. Yeah. Loves it. Went over to the chimp thing. Of course, Rogan has to have him on immediately. Rogan talked about it twice, and I knew this guy was coming on as fast as you can imagine. And there he was, right? I've watched the whole thing, I watched most of it yesterday.

It's pretty powerful. Like you have no idea. Like the, I don't know, just maybe the communication or like a lack of understanding of it, there is so much going on with these guys. The depth of it, I mean, for me it was watching how similar they are to us and just being completely mind blown about there. They're mannerisms and the way that they move through the woods, the way that they communicate together.

It's just, it's almost hard to watch. It's difficult to see how close they are to us and know that they're just living in the woods, doing these things. What was surprising to you about it in terms of like your military experience? I mean, you're a green beret, right? So I imagine when you watch this, and I'm just guessing, but when I was watching it, it didn't seem like a bunch of dudes hanging out, right?

We live pretty different lives to even our own ancestors. And I was just like, oh, this is like Wolfe. Yeah, it is. And I watched it, I watched the whole DocuSeries twice through because of the first time, I mean, I couldn't catch it all. But there were like maybe 10 moments where I stopped it, rewound it, and just was mind blown by the similarities of them living together in the woods,

basically patrolling, like the rain combat all the time. And so, you know, the Special Forces qualification course has a section of the course that's called SUT, small unit tactics. It's much like Ranger School where you're with your element, you're with your squad and you're you're moving through the woods tactically, you're setting up, you're in a patrol at all times, you're setting up raids and bushes, and you're living like you'd be living in war. And to watch these chimps do exactly what we do in the woods for small unit tactics and you know seven dash eights what they call it. Their tactics are so similar to ours. So it was blowing your mind in the sense of blowing my mind. You would see

something and you're like, I know what this is. Well, in my mind, monkeys just lived in the woods. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They live in the woods from trees and bananas. Take opportunities to get food. There's all these times where I'm just like, yeah, they're monkeys, but no. When I watched this, it was so, so evident that they're living in,

they're living in like a small unit tactic, military operation in the woods at all times and they use hand in arm signals They have an alpha that's like the squad leader. They have elements that essentially are expertise and and whatever craft they they're fulfilling within this patrol and

It was intense. There's one moment in the docu series where they all get online to set up an ambush after a patrol. And there's another rival chimp gang really close to them. They serotoniously move in an element online and they get up and they listen. And you can tell that they're like concocting some sort of plan. They're looking at each other, they're giving little hand and arm signals, gestures, facial expressions. And then one of the monkeys gives the signal to go,

which is the same symbol to go signal to go that we use in the woods. Or just like waves is armed forward. Waves is armed forward and when he does that, the rest of the monkeys, the rest of the chimps get online and they fucking move towards this other rival gang. And there's even a moment where the alpha champ slaps one of the others on the back and they start screeching. And in my mind, they were like, let's fucking go. Let's do this.

And it made sense to you. It made total sense and I was just... BOOM! Right. I mean, yeah, my wife and I, we, you know, we saw it on Netflix, we threw it on, we thought it'd just be another nature-based documentary with some monkeys. No, dude, this is like 30 years in the making of like a an immersion process of these monkeys being used to humans and

them Understanding that they have the ability to come in get really close and integrate with it I mean, I heard I heard the podcast and James Read read he's like yeah, they didn't even they basically didn't even acknowledge us while we were there. And they were so used to them that they just went about their business. And they did 400 days of documentation in order to create what, like, five or six episodes. Yeah, it blew my mind. And there were moments where I told my wife like holy shit they

are so similar to us and so many ways that it's that it's almost it's almost difficult to watch Do you think that for this second season which they have to make instead of so they were working with scientists There were scientists out there. Yeah, and they're theorizing shit scientifically as they do. And then you've got, well, you know, they're like trying to figure out. Yeah, they're just trying to be like, all right, this is what they do, this is how they do it, but we don't 100% know why. Now you've got the film crew there and what James was alluding to is, you know, they're seeing things differently than the scientists.

Because of the way the lens that they look through, I thought to myself, and I had a feeling the, you know, you being a military person would have like this different idea of how this is going. I felt like, wouldn't it be great if for the next season they had like military people out there, right? Yeah. That had that experience just to see if through that lens, they could pick up on. Because there was just a lot through the conversation where they're like, oh, we don't really know why this is.

We think this is this, the scientists are like kind of understanding, especially when it became to the attacking of all the monkeys. Well, that's the problem with building data is that, you know, once you're seeing this for the first time, up close, and very intimate, like they were, you're not looking at it through the lens of military warfare. You're basically trying to break down the habits

and the, you know, the interactions that these monkeys are having with each other. Yeah, like an ecologist. Yeah, and I think James made the interactions that these monkeys are having with each other. Yeah, like an ecologist. Yeah, and I think James made the point that monkeys, scientists study monkeys in like zoos or one at a time, but not in groups, right? Not in like full on patrol mode and seeing how they operate each day to survive, to find food and to interact. And the one thing that was most fascinating was how they chose the alpha

and how they interacted with each other. And you know, I told my wife I was like, man, that's like, that's exactly like warfare. Like there's probably one guy that has so much responsibility that he doesn't have time to do anything else. And it highlighted that with a couple of the particular alphas that were in the groups is that the alphas did not groom other chimps, but other chimps were honored to groom him. And it's like, you know, you can look at that however you want, but like that dude's at the top of the food chain. He's got to make the decisions, he's got to make the moves and he has to fight to be the alpha consistently all the time.

So what do they say? You got like maybe six years up the, yeah, and eventually it's gonna beat the shit out of you. And it's brutal, you're constantly, you know, proving yourself to your tribe or to your, you know, to your little group there that you are the alpha and then do the most fascinating thing about that was when one of one of the alphas was injured. The other chimps took an opportunity to knock him off and and and move up the chain.

What do you, he heard his hand, right? Yeah, he heard his hand. He had like a broken wrist or something, and they were like, well, here it is. And they took that opportunity to move up and challenge him. And that's happening all the time. And that's happening all the time in the military too. Not that we like see a dude that's injured and move on to try to take his position, but dude, it's a process of finding out who has the ability, who has the balls to be in that spot.

He was the team leader. And ultimately it spoke to me like, whether it seems brutal or not, it's like he's not as capable as he was. No. Right? And if you feel more capable, then take the lead. Well, and the thing I thought about with that is that that's not happening in the corporate space. That's not happening at your nine to five job where you're like,

hey man, that manager's kind of weak right now. I'm going to go fucking take his position or I'm going to beat him down and show him that I'm more capable. That's sweet though. It does hurt. I mean, kind of. Yeah. I mean, Jesus. We used to do some pull-up competitions every once in a while.

I mean, come on. But what I told my wife is that, you know, those managers and that toxic leadership that exist in, you know, in the 9-5 and the corporate space, they get to just sit in those positions and manipulate themselves. And manipulate other people. And there's no one there to knock them off their fucking pedestal. But in the chimp world, they do.

Yeah. And so it's like, why don't we have a process that allows for that? I mean, maybe not beating the dude up, but like, hey, this guy's not capable anymore. Is there any type of assessment that says, you know what, this guy's, you know, beating the dude up, but like, hey, this guy's not capable anymore. Is there any type of assessment that says, you know what, this guy is, you know, ill-equipped to lead people?

I've seen that non-stop in the 95. That's what keeps me out of the workforce, is that, you know, when you see a leader that doesn't have the ability to lead people and doesn't show by example, there is no real process to say, this guy doesn't belong here. And being a green beret and like moving from the teams

into the corporate space, it's kind of hard to watch. But I will say that the similarities is that if you're on a special forces team and you got 11 guys, we got 12 guys normally, but if the team leader, it starts to prove that he doesn't belong there or he's inefficient or is toxic to the team, I've seen it time and time again where the guys on the team, the enlisted folk, they assess that, they basically hold court and they say, listen, this guy doesn't belong here and they package shit and put it in the hallway. So that's pretty

interesting. And that's what basically happens in these chimp drives. Right. It can't be disaster. You can't be disaster. You know, you're good. But you can say, hey, you know what, buddy, we've all came together and we don't think you belong here. So it's time to find somebody to know. Love that. Two things I wanted to talk to you about, they also were big in the documentary. One, there were the bigger apes, chimps. Yeah, they looked different. Right, didn't they?

But they weren't the alphas. They were like, they were just like patrol leaders and also like second to the alpha. So they made it a lot. Yeah. But they didn't have, I guess, the fear constantly of being taken over. They just kind of like hung out and did that thing and it was strong.

Like what is your take on that position? What is that? Well, that exists in the military. I think it exists in the world in general, which is, yeah, it exists everywhere because it's like, man, I would imagine that they're somehow analyzing the complexity and the immense responsibility that it takes

to be in that position and they're like, you know what, I'll be a teammate and I'll do my thing, but I'm not getting my ass kicked every day. Right. And so with people, I think, especially on teams, like you've got guys that have are naturally born or have this innate, you know, instinct to lead and to be in that hard spot. And they end up being on the top. But then there's a lot of guys that don't want to have that responsibility and they just

want to show up and do their work. And so, yeah, dude, I mean, it's frightening. What did you think about the patrols? Yeah, dude. So, these apes were just constantly patrolling. They didn't talk a lot. So again, a lot of like hand signals and things and they can't figure out their communication which is weird, right?

I'm not weird, like we can't understand any animals. But I mean, it makes sense that they don't, they don't see the value probably in any sort of language. They can make noises, they make some. I was even thinking about that, and it might be, it might be more efficient to live that way. Like think about how loud we get in here, and like you can barely understand what Todd's saying

because Adam's talking over him, and then I'm talking over you guys, and then I've got this idea in my head, and like, it's kind of chaos. But if you're able to just like look over and say, hey, man, with a hand in arm signal or a facial expression, that might be better. You know, I've led wilderness expeditions for years, and one thing that we do is like, for one whole day, we don't even talk. It's silence.

And so we move through the woods together, we set up camp and nobody says anything, and the efficiency, and just like the way that that, how smooth that runs, there's value to that. And so I told my wife when we were watching the documentary, maybe that's what they're doing, maybe that's why they don't communicate. Maybe they've evolved in a way that they understand,

well, they're also being tactically efficient too. And so if they were loud and screeching and screaming and making all kinds of noises, like the other tribes that are pretty close are gonna be able to hear them. So, they're living their life. And it's so interesting, because the mothers and the babies kind of stay behind, right?

And like they're like, oh shit, when they start to see the males get all revved up and start getting crazy, they all kind of form together and say, all right, we better get the fuck out of the way because something's about to happen. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I feel I got to interject just for a minute because I have not seen the film, but the most interesting part of this whole podcast for me was when they chatted about the, was it Piscar? The name of the, you can't enchant that had the whites in his eyes, so he looked more human

than chimp. Oh, that was good. Just because of the whites of the eyes. Was he a patroller? Was he a bigger chimp? Or was he just this kind of off like outlier? Well, what was interesting about him is I think he chose to patrol a lot.

He was like leading the charge mostly, but didn't have any, you know, no aspirations to become the alpha. Right, but he had made it more than the alphas did. Yeah, they said he had more girlfriends. Well, they said he spent more time building those relationships with those females in times where they were in heat.

And so the other monkeys or the other chimps would say, all right, you know, the women are ready to go. It's time to make some babies. This guy was like constantly building rapport. He was slipping into their DMs and just like, he was making, yeah, he was making love to those chimps. Like, he was making love to those champs. There was something different about him. Well, but imagine it, you think of human beings that have like, you know, sparkling eyes,

I would say. Like, just like eyes that communicate, right? And people do communicate with their eyes a lot, you know, and some people do it in a different way. It's like, you know, you can just look at someone, but also if you're in a party, and you can be with someone that is tall and obviously confident, but doesn't speak a lot,

they're doing a lot of communicating in a different way. And, you know, having pretty eyes kind of does it. And his eyes were so different than the other chances. So you could always see where he's looking even from the distance. And you know, you would imagine that sends signals. Well, we used to have this guy on our team, we used to call him the hawk, because we'd go out to bars

and he'd just sit in the corner and kind of be quiet. No, it works. And he would just watch things unfold and wait for opportunities. And so like we're, you know, most of And he would just watch things unfold and wait for opportunities. And so like where, you know, most of the guys are just like jumping in with the girls and buying them drinks and this guy would just sit and wait. And then he'd be like, I like girls by yourself.

I'm gonna go talk to her. That's what Pisc, that's what he was doing. He was playing his cards, right? He's being mysterious. Yeah. I think this show ultimately, if they go into two, maybe three seasons, they keep this going, because they're so close to us, this didn't seem like a regular nature animation. To me, it was like telling us a lot about almost who we are, and in a way that we're not

thinking about. Well, the most fascinating fact that they highlighted in the film was that these chimps are 99% of our genetics, 99%. But when you look at these things, butts, you're like, dude, I'm glad we evolved into having these normal butts, because it's just this giant, fucking weird,

hammer-o-in with all these lumps on it And then there's just like an external but hole and it's like I'm glad we I'm glad we have the butts that we do But you don't you don't like the look of the the chimp but all notes fucking disgusting the monkey butts So I wrote this down towards the end they talk about how the real champ the real chimpanzee characters There's real characters throughout the film. Did you guys feel like these, again, coming from somebody who hasn't seen it yet? There's like character development through chimps that aren't speaking.

You kind of know how they act and react and you're like, are rooting for them or not rooting for them. So they threw out, they give the name, right? And they like point to a new one. And eventually you start to remember. You recognize. They move different. you can kind of like identify them after Understanding what their name is and what the role is that's cool

But it almost as soon as the name comes up once it's like one or two episodes in you're like oh I'm I know what they're gonna kind of act like yeah You know what their archetype is? Are they the warrior? Are they the magician? Are they the king? And you can just sit and watch them interact. And it is fascinating. That's cool.

Yeah, and there's an elder in all these tribes. There's multiple elders. And that's the way, like, most indigenous tribes of people are set up where there's like an elder that doesn't have to prove himself anymore. He's, he's already been there, done that. He might have been the alpha at one point. And one really like touching and pretty emotional part of the Dottakis series was,

one of the monkeys got injured during a patrol from the other chimps. He got injured bad. And so instead of him showing his weakness, he left the tribe. He moved on and he wanted to go either heal or find a place to die. And you're sitting there watching this and it's super sad. You could see that the mullies die in. And the elder would come in and check on him. And he was the only one that was allowed to be around him. And that was fascinating to me.

And like, so that champ in particular, they got injured, he basically knew he was done. And they show him, he builds a nest for himself to die in. And then the elder comes in and puts leaves over him and brush. And like, almost has like a little ceremony for him as he passes on It's just like holy shit. They just held it like a funeral for him. Wow a monkey funeral. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah So much more complex. Can't wait to watch it dude. It's so good. So good. All right. Let's jump over to Jack car and Well, get into more military stuff,

honestly. So Jack Car writes the books that ended up being the terminal list, which is on Netflix, with Chris Pratt. Great show, real intense, special forces related stuff. It's so interesting when these guys get out of the military and have this compulsion to write about it too, because I bet there's a lot of pressure on that where I don't know, I feel like, I feel like so many people have come out of the military that a special forces and want to write about it and then they probably get a lot of pushback. Mostly seals.

Right. So seals like to do it. Now is there a thing about that that you don't care for? Yeah, there's a stigma for sure. And listen, I have a ton of seal buddies and we joke around about this all the time, but a guy came into my shop one day and he told me he was a seal and I asked him when he was going to write his book just because it's a pretty normal thing. And you know, for whatever reason their culture has kind of set them up for it, you know,

they've made a bunch of movies like Zero Dark 30, they've made a video game about a seal team, and the seals have just been in the spotlight much more than like the Special Forces, there are other Special Operations units. And so, yeah, it's part of their culture and there's guys that are completely against it in the seal community. And yeah, as a community, as a special operations community, we kind of give them shit for it, because essentially they're, you know, they're taking these missions and writing stories and divulging a lot of information.

But, you know, some of it can be good, some of it can be inspirational. You know, there's, I've read plenty of books from sales that were great, but some people do have a biased opinion for sure. But I get what you're saying and also it's fun to make fun of people. It is, so it's fun to do that, but like as a layman Todd, like a blessing.

But as a layman, isn't it fun? Like isn't it great that we get to hear these stories? Like so many of these movies were written by Hollywood directors in the past, and don't get me wrong, they were great, Rambo. I don't think they had a they were great, Rambo. I don't think they had a lot of special forces, you know, consultation in that, but you know, we enjoyed it.

And also, save it, Brian, and saving a private Ryan. Saving Ryan's driver. It's a third time there. Yeah, that was a good one. I don't think that was written by a seal. No, but I feel like they would have had a lot of military, because that was very close to, I mean, you know,

people would watch that and feel very affected by it. Well, lone survivor was the big one that like kind of broke through and a lot of people read and you know, it was a very inspiring book. And so that was the story of Marcus Latrell and his seal team that went out on patrol. Basically were compromised and the mission turned upside down.

All of them died except for Marcus Latrell who ended up in a village in Afghanistan. And I have buddies that went in and basically saved his ass. They were on the Ranger teams. Wow. Yeah. I mean, it was a part, it was a time in the war where no one really knew what was going on for these missions. And so, you know, they definitely highlighted the reality of what it's like to be in combat and small unit teams in Afghanistan and Iraq.

So, but yeah, that was like kind of the big one. I think that first came out that people really paid attention to and then it just kind of became the norm for guys to get out and write books. But there's value to it too, the sun degree, right? It's all this, I guess the stigma is like, oh, you're just doing this for money. But then, there can be a combination.

Andy Stomphe has been on the Rogen Park house a bunch. He lives a squirrel suit. Yeah, he's a squirrel Stump, he's been on the Rogan podcast a bunch. He lives a squirrel suit. Yeah, he's a squirrel suit guy lives up in whitefish and I think he's said on a Rogan podcast that he's like picked up books in a library and he's read about missions that he was on and he's like, I don't even know this guy. You know, so like, it's interesting. So they embellish. Maybe. Well's Hollywood do yeah, I made a book yet I'm gonna publish there's a lot of controversy and politics behind the loan survivor and in or no, sorry not loan survivor um, the Chris Kyle book

so like there is a chapter or a scene in the book where Jesse Ventura gets involved and Apparently Jesse Ventura is in a bar and like knocks out Chris Kyle and like love Jesse Ventura gets involved. And apparently Jesse Ventura is in a bar and knocks out Chris Kyle. And like, love Jesse Ventura. And Jesse Ventura maintains that that never happened. And there's speculation that the publicist for Chris Kyle and his foundation basically just through that in the book. And I don't know if that's true or not.

I don't really care, but it is the nuance of all. Well, think about it. You're talking about it right now. So it worked. Good job publicists. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you gotta get, I mean, bad news is good news. Infamous, you know, makes people infamous. When you make something up, it reminds me of when Playboy,

I, to this day, you'd probably never get an answer from Cooper Hefner, which is the son of you When they went in and said we're not gonna do we're not gonna show boobs anymore. Yeah, or full frontal in playboy And everyone was talking about it was in the news for weeks and months Yeah, and then they came out with this first issue and there was no titties and Then all of a sudden everyone's in an uphore, still everyone's talking about it, everyone's still buying it because it's all over the news. And then what is it like two months later, they start showing titties again. Yeah, it's fucking brilliant idea. Yeah, it's it's like a juxtaposition because it's like, all right, what you're saying is true and like you're trying to sit back and go,

okay, I'm relying for this information to be solid and accurate. So yeah, and it goes back to like, hey, you know what, you believe what you wanna believe, but also know that like the truth may not be the truth. Right. I feel like a story, look, stand up comedians make things up, right? Yeah. They do, and it's like the one place where a lie is not that important.

Has to fit the narrative. How good the story is. But the joke is the joke. What you're going for is laughter. So you can say it was you. I went into a bar and this happened to me. Or sometimes the story is better that way. However, I feel like really you're going to have enough stories if you do those sorts of crazy military things. And you can lean on that. Like, oh yeah, you get five veterans in a room

and start telling stories. There's bound to be a story that a guy kind of adopts on his own and kind of recreates. It's just a thing, especially when you add booze and like, it's just fun. And, you know, I may have been fucking victim of it myself but yeah it's uh there's a lot of cool stories that come from the military that are unlike anything that you're gonna experience in this a million world and they're fun to tell I mean they really are yeah I like well or or you I mean that

reminded me when you when you're speaking of comedians, it's like, Bert Kreischer, the machine story, you know that's real. There's no way, I mean, he might have embellished a small amount, but I don't think he did. I really don't. I always like that story. It feels like he really did that. I think what he did is he took a real story

and he worked it on stage. And it doesn't mean that he, embellished. Necessarily made things up. But he lent on the bits that really connected so he emphasized those. And that's really what I mean. I mean, I'm sure anyone in the special forces has a lot of crazy stories that are probably really difficult to retell or relive. And if you look at it through the lens of not just

a stand up, but like a as a writer, you can turn up the bits that really are going to connect with people and keep it really true to what it was and maximize the hell out of it. I mean, at the end of the day, it's way more interesting than most people's lives. Well, in like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like you take the victim of one vehicle and you take the victim of another like they may really believe what they're saying Right. Yes, true. I witnessed testimony is I was gonna say that I was gonna say I witnessed testimony

It's all over the place because you I think people will certainly Just live out or have in their brain what they want to happen and what they want to say happen. And so it's really interesting how the human brain works with that. Especially if you get somebody on camera or if you get somebody who's writing a book and they want it to be better.

Well, that's why you have like fact checking, right? Like this fact checking, like I don't know if you guys have listened to or read green lights by Matthew McConaughey, but like people are really giving him a lot of shit right now because they're like, none of those stories are true. I mean they're pretty outlandish, but like I don't know when I listen to it, I was like, they're fucking hilarious and they're fun and like I loved hearing the stories. So who knows if they're true? He he told story about his dad, he had this like parakeet, and parakeet died in the toilet drown.

And his dad came home and like put the birds head in his mouth and gave him mouth to mouth, and the parakeet came back to life. Oh boy. And it's like, I don't know. I need to do that happen. It was fun to talk about, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. What do we know about birds? Maybe they can be kind of dead in water for a while. Yeah, maybe they'll sleep. I like to believe the master McConaughey tells the truth. Yeah. He's that cool. His ability to tell stories and just how cool he is, I just want to believe him.

Yeah, I agree. But that does bring up a point. They started talking about chat GPT-4 and what happens when you get chat GPT-5 and 6 and 7. And how you could... I mean, look at it. I'm looking at both of you guys. You got a little smirk on your face because we've all used chat GPT and it's fucking amazing. It's fun. It's great. I don't know how to do that. Once we get to version 5, 6 and 7, seven at the very least and Joe mentioned this,

it's great scaffolding to start from as a writer. So if James wants to or Jack, sorry, if if car wants to write something and he's a little bit stuck, there's already people who are who are putting into chat GBT for what's the next Jack car book going to, how's it going to start? Right. Party people are doing this. You could save him a lot of time. Yeah.

Someone might even write it for him. If ultimately, well, but he's... You have ghost writers for a reason. Now it's just Jack, GBT, five, six, and seven. Yeah, he, I'm pretty sure he's already been the ghost writer for Tom Clancy books. And he got to meet him, right? And Tom Clancy was like, I like your style.

I'm getting old. No, that was a different guy. That was a different Okay, so yeah, who was that right? He was oh John Grishon. No, he was on a few months ago. Fuck can't think of his name. I get a mixed up But like take that for example, right? So so he goes on he's Ghostwriting for him. Yeah, because you know, Tom Clancy is like, I, you know, I'm getting old. I need a chill. And you like my style.

Well, you can come in and do this now. But not when they started. His wife asked him to do it, right? And then had him over to their house. But it was before Clancy was that. We're all together for a while. And I think, I don't know if I'm 100% on this, but I believe most Tom Clancy books are ghost written

by other people. I'm pretty sure. I'm 100% on this, but I believe most Tom Clancy books are ghost written by other people. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he wrote a few, but I think they used his name and brand and like, you know, 80 out of 100 books are ghost. Aaron, we're going to need you to fact check over there. He's sparracy theory. Okay. But he is why I'm not disbelieving that right now

Is it that it was pretty close to like military stuff that he wouldn't have known about and you were picking up on that? Aaron maybe yeah, I don't know. I'm looking that up right now. All right. We're gonna look that all right What can we can we turn over but in the same in the same sense of what it is? It's like well, why Ultimately, we want the best book. I think they wanna make the best book. Of course. They were already using computers and a spell check and whatever.

It's like, how, well then, what point is it not you anymore? Well, Clancy could still go in and edit the piss out of it. I mean, look, I art direct. I get, I like to have designers get it to about 70%, right? That's great scaffolding to start from. Then I go in and fix it. That's what professionals do. I mean, look at in the art world,

you look at, oh gosh, Andy Warhol. Okay. He would have people making all of his art for him. By the end of it, they were doing all of his screen prints for him. He was just coming up with the idea and then everyone else was making his art for him. Yeah.

That's how professionals do it. That's how you can do it. If you want to make the mula. But can we start on the mula? Can we just go back to the very beginning, the mula light add? I got to point this out. Yeah. Where are we going with this?

Well, I'm going to throw this out there. I don't give a, I really don't care about the Bud Light thing. I think it's silly. I think it's a waste of time to talk about if Bud Light wants to put a trans person on their can, whatever. Again, this goes back to the Playboy thing. Everyone is talking about Bud Light now.

Good for them, it worked. Yeah, they sales it down like 25% per hour. Okay, so maybe it didn't work. So they had a good idea to like, we probably didn't be like, yeah, we fucked up. Right? What did they say? They pointed out they should just have the guy in the hangover, whereas the next morning he's like, honey, we fucked up. We're sorry. If that was that next commercial, they could come back.

That's what Jack said. 100% that's what Jackson's like. And you're not sure. But now you have Miller Lite doing this ad, which I didn't agree with at all. And the whole compost thing, if you watch the ad, they're talking about how women were the first ones to make beer. I don't know if that's true. Don't care. That's awesome if they were. They're smarter than men. So I get it. They probably were. But then we took all the fucking... Well, we drank it all. And we drank it all. But now they're going to take old ads of Miller Light and they're

going to they're going to turn it into compost. And you got all these we were joking about this earlier. Like you're going to turn old newspaper ads and ads from magazines into compost. You got all this fucking ink on the paper. And it's like all these toxic. Yeah. There's like they're going to turn that into compost to make better fucking hops. They're going to burn. You can't as the biggest greenwashing campaign It just pissed me off. Well, I feel bad for hot chicks. Are we hating on hot chicks? Well again, it's it's like the sports illustrated that people too, Todd it well Let me go come back to my point. I don't even know if I have a point here other than it's upsetting to think That yeah that there's nothing wrong with looking good in the bik that yeah, that there's nothing wrong with looking

good in a bikini. And there's nothing wrong with, you know, being a bigger woman who maybe most people don't think looks as good in a bikini. I don't know. It depends on your preference. Some people like big butts. I'm not a big butt guy, whatever, to each their own. But don't sit here and make me feel bad for liking hot women in a bikini.

Is what I'm getting after. Does that make me an asshole? Yes. It does. Okay, no. But like, I don't want to see Martha Stewart on fucking sports illustrated. Sorry, who wants to see that? Yeah. A bunch of old women are like, yeah, powerful. That's so great. Sorry. Cool.

I don't care. It sports illustrated. It's a technique. It sports illustrated. They try and things out and I don't think it's gonna work. And I'm not trying to be Jordan Peterson because I know you got a bunch of shit for this. I think it's beautiful to show a heavier set woman in a bikini fine. I'm not gonna buy that magazine, but fine. If that empowers women, that's great. And I like powers women, that's great. And I, like, I just look at it this way. Don't make other people feel better. Like, what about all the women that were in those ads who had a great time who looked hot bikinis

and were getting paid a shit ton of money by Miller Light to be in their ads and were fucking stoked. Yeah, we're gonna sit here and say fuck those women because that's, when I'm seeing this ad, I'm thinking to myself, there's some 70 year old who was in that Miller light ad who looked damn good in the bikini in the 80s

and is like, fuck these bitches. Yeah. I looked good in the 80s, like give me a break. Yeah. I was getting paid well, I was drinking Miller light. Well, my big thing is, okay, that was us, I just don't get it. That was us, that was our culture.

Sure, it may be time to move on. Okay. But don't fill it full of this shame. This woke thing, this woke bullshit and you know, they've just gone over. You're right. It's a shaming thing. That's a shaming, it's a shaming campaign. So now these women who looked good in bikinis in the 80s and we're having fun and getting paid are now supposed to feel bad. Well, here's what I say is if that's not what's supposed to happen, then don't get in those ads right now. Don't get in a bikini and take your picture and attach it to a beer.

Right. I guess I just don't understand. Maybe I'm just old, I'm in my 40s now, but I met my wife on a photo shoot for an ad. She looked great in a bikini still does. Okay. I and friends of ours looked at that and and we're like I felt like she was getting shamed for it. If she if she was she was getting shamed for it by other women being like, oh my god, I can't believe she did this. We went out. She got paid to do an ad. She was a model. She was getting paid to do this ad that I was directing for the magazine.

And we met and you know got married, fucking three years later or whatever, but we met on that photo shoot. And she was just having fun with, there was three other girls in the ad, they were all having fun, they were getting paid well. It's not like we're not paying these people. Well, so this ties into a conversation. This is a thing that's very close to my heart because I've been in these advertising deals before where we're taking photos. Yeah, for magazines and it sells. They were getting paid. They were having fun. They wanted to do it. Yeah. So my wife and I were having this conversation the other night. So I've been on this like fitness journey where I look good with my shirt off now. And there's a lady. There was a long time where I didn't.

And I'm fucking proud of that. And so I've had people come up to me, bars, restaurants, public, and say, damn, you've been doing a lot of work. You've been like on this wellness journey. And you know, my wife said, yeah, it's just not kosher anymore to compliment people on their physique. And I said, what? I said, it's so validating for someone to come up to me and say, hey man, you've been more to compliment people on their physique. And I said, what?

I said, it's so validating for someone to come up to me and say, hey, man, you've been working out. You look good. And the narrative now, apparently, is that saying that and furs that you looked bad before. And it's not fair to the people that still maybe be overweight. It's not fair to the people who haven't put all the work in to look good with their shirt off or in a bikini.

And I just don't understand it. I don't get it either. It's like don't trust a skinny cook, okay? Yeah. There's something there. It's like if you, you know, don't trust a doctor who eats shitty food and is overweight. And they can tell you how to do things.

I think they actually brought this up in the conversation about psychiatrists, you know, a lot of people being coaches and you're a coach. Yeah. So you get it. But you live by, you know, a set of rules and standards for yourself, you go to the gym every day, I wanna be coached by somebody like that.

I don't want to be coached by someone who's always nervous and always anxious. I know a lot of people out there who pretend to be coaches who have about zero self-esteem. I don't want to be those mentors. No, I don't want to be those people's mentors. No, and it's like, as I start my organization, which is action oriented, right?

So if I have a company called Action Oriented and I have a picture of me and I'm a fat ass on my organization, which is action oriented, right? So if I have a company called Action Oriented and I have a picture of me and I'm a fat ass on my website, do you think people are going to come do my retreats? Do you think people are going to trust me to take them into the woods for multi-day experiences? No. And I've worked really hard. And Adam and I have talked about this before. It's what everyone wants. And that's why it sells. Sex sells, you know, bikini sell people with their shirts off sell. Because when people look at them, that's what they want for themselves. And for people that put the work in, like celebrate that. Yeah, you should celebrate. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

You don't have to objectify women or objectify men to celebrate it and say, Oh, wow, dude, that person is really disciplined. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if the question is the people that don't look as good, the struggle with their body, feel picked on or left out or whatever, it should be, well, let's find a new way to encourage them to feel better about themselves. In the hope that, you know, maybe they can just feel good to go on a beach. You know, don't pick on them. Yeah. Leave them to be. But we can't pretend that being healthy and putting the work in and being a really good shape. I mean, look, genetics is a part of it, but a lot of it is just hard work.

Well, what about like these girls that are making like six figures on Instagram to show in their bodies? Like, that's an interesting topic. Like, all right, I don't think we should get into that one. But, well, it's a thing. It's an interesting topic. It's an interesting topic. Make a lot of money. They make a lot of money.

The beauty is always sold. This is just the new way to sell it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Bullshit. How hot is that. It is. Dude, they can scientifically prove like it's symmetry. It's like dimensions of space between eyes and lips and all the rest of it.

And then with man, it's just being rich. What I'm, I guess, my final thing I'll say here is by doing a Miller light ad where you're taking old ads of women and bikinis who, you know, again, got paid well, had fun doing it probably. Whatever. They were models. It was great. It was the 80s.

They were into it. And you're tearing these up. That's, you're literally doing the same thing that you are saying that you're getting made fun of for in the first place. Well, we're also erasing history too. It's the same thing as getting rid of all these statues of all these confederate. You're erasing history and you're cancelling culture in hopes that like somehow we will wake up to this like bigger and better and more. It's not helping anybody. No, it's not helping anybody. You can't delete culture. You can't delete history and hopes that there will be change. You can learn from it. Yeah, but let's. It's okay. The history existed and look at it. How you want to let's move over to jelly roll.

I think we're probably done for the day. No, no, no, we got we got 10 minutes to talk about jelly. No. I do like jelly because he's freaking awesome. Let's put him in. Let me just just go let me go through a few things here because jelly roll I did not realize this man was going on my overtime paycheck was incarcerated for six years He what did he armed robbery? He said he's like before I even had pubes. I was holding the gun and Basically got talked into it. He's 16 to what 20 16 to 20 He had a he had a girlfriend that had a kid while he was in jail. Now he's with his new wife who now they have custody of this child. A girl who's now what, like, 15 or something, 13.

Anyway, inspiring story. I really enjoyed him, you know, getting really emotional. Both him and Joe cried on the podcast. Yeah, boy, cried as a mother. Just for that alone, it was worth the emotional turmoil that you could see was happening through what he experienced. His mother was clearly depressed or had bipolar or something

while he was growing up, sat in a room all day. And then when she turned on the music, it changed the whole house. So he was pulling out the positive parts of his upbringing and overcoming certain things by saying, you know what, my mom had this depression and what I remember, the gold or the silver lining in that is that I remember when she turned on music, it lit the place up and it changed the energy and that's why I'm connected to music. And that's why I want to put things out there. And also, that is why he is using music to also help all these juvenile kids. And putting all this money towards,

what did he say when he does a show in Tennessee? Underprivileged youth. He puts all the money that he makes off of that one show, young to these juvenile homes. And he has Joe Ideas jokes open for his show. He has comedians like that are very close to Rogan. You know, he had Doug Stanhope for a long time. Yeah.

Do a joke and Doug didn't even know about it. He just took a joke that he liked and that opened his show. Yeah. And it was just like some wall shit that Doug did. And he has Joey Diaz who is like, are you familiar with? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Shining example just like some wall shit that dug it. Now he has Joey Diaz, who is like, are you familiar with? Yeah. Yeah. Shining example of what these kids should be. He's a national treasure and national treasure. So the fact that he has that joke on that, I mean, obviously, jelly has been connected to this like comedy ward in his own way. But you know, hearing when

when he was crying about his mom and like how she wouldn't get out of bed and it was just all this pain, but they were these tiny moments. Like as a kid connecting with your parents, even if you have lunatic ones, it's like that you just want to be loved by them, right? You want to be their best friend, like in a way. And to have those tiny moments that speak to you, and then of course he went down that road, it's like this is the only thing that connected with me. And the music?

And it's in its reality too. So beautiful. Yeah, it was a powerful one, and I had never heard a jelly roll before. I'm not going to lie. I didn't know who he was. I had never heard of that. I'd actually heard some of his music when I listened to it, but I didn't know anything about his name.

I could have never connected it. Yeah, same here. Weird coincidence on the way to work this morning. There was an interview on 96.7, which I think is out of New York, but it's a bozeman radio station. They play, you know, an hour of this dude every day. It's like somebody in the morning, Tom in the morning. Anyway, jelly roll was on the show this morning.

They played his newest song. As I'm driving to work, I'm literally like still listening to the podcast and my kid was in the back seat. So I didn't have the, I wasn't listening to the podcast, I was just listening to the radio and jelly roll was on. Dude. And so that was a weird coincidence, but I gotta say, wasn't a huge fan of the country song that

that came out maybe it'll grow on me I don't know he seems like more of a hip-hop artist you're not much of a bumpkin anyway I know I like dude I love wail and Jennings I fucking love David Allen Cole it's a different style I love Merle Haggard I love Johnny can do do he has to love old country the outlaw country I love outlaw country and love Old Country. The Outlaw Country. I love Outlaw Country. And clearly, Jelly Roll is super inspired by Outlaw Country. So I'm sure I'm going to like the album, but the one song, you know, they always pick the one song that's kind of cheesy and poppy.

Yeah. You know, and it was talking about him praying and how he's not a prayer. He doesn't pray much. It was just a little too churchy country for me. What often happens is that an artist puts together, you know, like he said, he wrote like a hundred songs. And for whatever reason, the producer says, Oh, yeah, two.

Yeah, the producer says, this is the one that we have to highlight and you don't really get to know much about their music or who they are. And I find myself doing this, if I know someone, or if I have a connection to someone and then I hear their music, it makes me appreciate it more. So I went, I did a wilderness expedition with Jason Miraz. I knew who he was. I'd listen to his music. It was very poppy,

you know, it wasn't my style. And like he in his head wrote a song about the expedition and like he weaved in everyone's lives into the song and then we sat on the last day listen to him play the guitar and sing the song and like little bits and pieces about every single guy's story and I was like in tears like dude that's really there's a lot of depth to that yeah and then I started listening to more of his music that was outside of the norm I'm like, yeah, I knew his character. I knew who he was he He lit me up by his you know his complexity and his depth So I think there's something to that and it's like I've heard people come on the Rogan podcast that I didn't know

And now that I hear him. I'm like, oh, I know a little bit about their lives. There's a connection there. No, absolutely. And again, I'm going to go on to Spotify and I'm going to listen to Jelly Roll because great guy. I mean, just super, just powerful, huge heart, authentic, authentic dude. I mean, clearly doesn't give a fuck about what people think of him or he's got tattoos on his face. Yeah, I mean, you got to love people with tats on their face. I mean, that's going all in. It's just great. It's just great. You just, you know, and I will say there was one there was one that's $20,000 on red. That's what that is. One last thing to mention, which I was interesting if we're talking about other country artists, he was saying how

Zach Bryan had 700 million streams while he was still in the military. Yeah. He was just like still, you know, in the Marines, and he's getting 700 million streams. And he was the second, I think Taylor Swift was the one, the person in front of him. and then it was Zach Bryant. I mean, come on, and the guy was still in the military. Yeah, it's like, getting bad is the beauty of, and they talk about it quite a bit about,

you know, how he got on board with Spotify and all of his, you know, his publisher and publicist or whatever was saying, oh, we gotta get some more CDs into Walmart or wherever, all these places, he's like, fuck that. Not if CDs are going away, we got to figure out what's next. I think it's great that these artists are getting away from these record labels that are just trying to control them.

You don't need them anymore. Dude, this is what happened at Tupac. You know, they get locked into these. I love how you're bringing them back to Tupac right now. But it's Tupac. Tupac had one of the worst record deals ever. They controlled his life. I thought he was on death row He only was making money when he was or no death row shot him

Yeah, I hate it. Yeah, that was yeah, wasn't good. Yeah, wasn't good But like these early guys were getting locked in and they were making zero money like you know Even jelly talked about it 90 10 deals right there like owing forever. Yeah, you know, even jelly talked about it, 90 10 deals, where they're like owing forever. Yeah. You know, remember the, remember the jewel? Yeah, that was a great podcast. An amazing podcast.

And how it made me enjoy her music. The fact that she basically lived in a car and turned down a million dollars. She was great. But that speaks. Got a lot of creative. It's like, it's like something doesn't, like they're creative people people and they got there

By following a heart following their like weird way of being like what feels real to me? What speaks to me? What is talking to me my gut and? Also somebody gives you a million. It's like too good to be true. Yeah, and it probably is It's great. Have you guys seen the documentary finding sugarman? No. So it's about this guy named Rod Riegas. And he's like very similar to Bob Dylan in his music. And he got a record label, I believe, with Columbia. And he sold seven records in the United States, went back to being like a politician and like a woodworker and like lived in like a shitty apartment in Detroit.

Meanwhile, his records somehow made it over to South Africa. And this is like during a part-time, all this unrest in South Africa. And he sold like 17 million records over there, and he didn't even know it. He had no idea, but his music, and what he was portraying in his music, connected to the people of South Africa. And this guy did a research project on him and he, he wanted to find him.

And so he reached out to his daughter and like there was just all these weird conspiracies that he had died or let himself on fire on stage. It was all these like really weird things. And when he met with his daughter, he's like, yeah, I wish I would have got to know him when he was alive. And she's like, yeah, he lives like two blocks down. And he went and told him how, he goes, you're more popular than Elvis. And he didn't know.

In style. In style. In the music or taking all the money? No, Columbia just didn't promote him in the right way or whatever. And people didn't connect with him in the first like whatever iteration of his record. But like he became a superstar.

And then he went on tour in South Africa. And he's like a superstar. It's awesome. It's a pretty cool documentary. Love it. Well, I'm gonna stream some jelly roll tonight. What up? Cause he is a good man.

I heard he's coming to Boseman actually. Dude, let's go watch it. He'd be great for you. A man of Boseman. We gotta go. All right, well on that note, thanks a lot, fuckers. Yeah, great to see you here. Good to have you, Aaron. Yeah.

And the audience, we appreciate you too. Peace out. We will talk to you next, or we'd love you. Lots of love. you