Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - 362 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Aza Raskin & Tristan Harris Et al.

Episode Date: December 31, 2023

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You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created. Now with your hosts, Adam Thorn. My heat of the worst bot casual in the best one. Two, one, go. Enjoy the show. That Terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with.

It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity. A remorse or fear fear and it absolutely will not stop ever until you are dead. Zerakana? Oh, welcome to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. That was slightly dramatic. I will give you that. But as a rascal and Tristan Harris,

they had a message. They had a message of concern. Those are the guys to do it. They do their research. Dude. Oh, by goodness. Right? Boads unwell for the human race.

Hmm. Will we make it? Well, we all watch the, I mean, most of us, the social dilemma. Where was that taking us? Scary. And now they're going to do the AI dilemma. These guys do their research. Oh, yeah, it is not pretty. Brent for it.

What are you guys gonna do? Is it? Maybe. Freak guys. I don't know. It sounds a little bit too emanate to ask. How we can learn and adapt

and create its own programs and its own physical realities. That's got to be... Yeah, and... And you know what? I'm all in. I'm all in. I'm like 100% please help us. Because I don't know if you've seen like politics recently, but what the fuck is going on there?

I don't know. Not good. I feel like an AI can solve that out. It depends on who programs it. Good point. And that's what they talked about that a little bit. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Well, so they started with AI could decipher language, right? From dolphins and parrots. Incredible. What? Why won't that technology? I mean, for my dog. Yeah, Lulu. Well, but really, parrots,

it seemed like it was clear that they could speak our language. But often, people would have kind of downplay it. Like, they were just like mimicking. Yeah, playing back, basically. But honestly, like, all right, calm down. It's not like a dog can do that, you know? You wanna be like, oh, a cow is much smarter than a parrot.

Yeah, well they're not saying words. It turns out a lot of animals can mimic, like a lot of crow species and even seals can sound like humans. Huh? Yep. Freaky. What do they say?

Just one seal is owned by this guy for like 30 or however long he had it for and it learned how to say like hello there and like good day. Some pretty scary stuff. I like it. They have incredible vocal range. Okay. That's what makes sense. But yeah, if AI can like,

dice, like figure out way or language, I'm in. I wanna know. They tell us some cool stuff. Maybe, or maybe not. When we find out their idiots. It's you, right? And that's okay too. That's okay.

They're doing their best. They're doing their best. Wow. Yeah, it's interesting how it's fast is happening. In two years is gonna world change. It's so fast, dude. I just don't know how we can keep up with this. Responsibly. Really? I mean, that's what they're saying. That's what that's what Assa and Tristan are saying. They're like, please God, be responsible with this. And also they pro this. I think they pro this. They're the nerdiest nerds you've ever met. Very smart though. Yeah. Pretty smart guys.

The smart. That's what nerds are. Yeah. That's good point. Yeah. So they have some dire warnings for us, and due to the level of the inexorable level of knowledge, this system can gain, retain, extrapolate with, and make its own reality. AI is almost unknown. We don't know almost what it can do. And I mean, we're all like so many people using it already. You're like chat GBT is like, they already have an app now. They're Android and I'm pretty sure iPhone to where it's like, all right, you know, you have your app. Here's the answer

You can just fucking type it in speak it in Here we go That's been helping me get through some boring work. All right. I'll tell you that. Yeah, I mean people are using it for all kinds of stuff So where did we go from here? Right. It's eliminating higher learning need for higher learning degrees. Yeah, but also like as they're saying like How about it's the most dangerous thing we've ever seen? potentially

like who gets the super computer first who gets the super computer first? Who gets the quantum computer plus AI first? Like I feel like whoever figures this out is going to just destroy all of our bank accounts. Take all the money from all the people in the world. They're just going to be at a zappet out of it. What do we do here? I don't know, but are some of our less, our friendly nations to the US are investing billions in it. China, the UAE, is on the forefront of investment.

That's, they're not exactly our friends. But they're not exactly our friends. Well, they're not our friends. So, yeah. And also, whoever makes the best AI, people are just gonna, different countries. I'm just gonna fucking steal it, steal it dude. They're gonna steal it. He's gonna take it away from us.

What's some of the things that concern you the most beyond money and hacking our lives? Do you have a particular point that he doesn't you don't like? Um, I don't know, dude. I don't, I don't feel that word about it. Honestly, I feel like every innovation figures itself out. What does it have to cope with it? Yeah. We just figure it out.

It's like, yeah, it sucks for some people and, and maybe a lot of people. There are people that are really smart in the space that are like, oh, it's gonna wreck the whole world, but we're just like the idiots reflecting on it. It's like, I don't think that, I don't think it's gonna be able to do as much as they say. Because think about it. It comes out, it fucking blasts everyone with its

super knowledge and whatever. It just starts taking over everything. It's like, well, what are all the people do? Well, we're going to figure out what we do. I'm going to use it as a tool or we use by it. We always figure out how to do it. And we're pretty good at destroying things and blowing stuff up. So if it ever gets out of hand, maybe we can just do some of that. Awesome.

Blowin' stuff up. How do you blow up the internet? Just, just you watch. Oh, we'll figure that one out. We'll figure that one out. In peace, maybe? Guys, we gotta blow up the internet. I guess I could live in every computer. That'd be hard to do.

Yeah, but also, like, let's think about, all right, just for the sake of it, let's think about what could be good about this. I see a lot good. I think that it could potentially make contact with aliens even. Right. That's my hope, as it can reach beyond our planet and figure out ways to... Yeah, all like every politician checks in with chat to you. as it can reach beyond our planet and figure out ways to... Yeah, all like every politician checks in with chat GBT before it says something dumb in front of Congress. Yeah.

You know what I mean? It's like, hey, what's the best way to say this? To like win the most votes. And then we find out that everything becomes like really even, really like middle of the road. There's no like extreme-ass bullshit. Like, I feel like that could happen. Also, what about climate change? It could do the math. That problem is beyond a lot of our scopes. Definitely mine. Yeah, give it a good computer. DraftKingsuCino is bringing only the best classics like Blackjack, Roulette, and Slots, plus

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The quantum computing. That's the next step of computing. Yep. And then what about finance? What about the stock market? What about the Federal Reserve and interest rates? It could be like, hey, your national debt is a bit ridiculous. How about we do this?

And then we can even it out. Invest somewhere that wasn't thought before. Something like that. Right. Which is way above all scope and clearly above the fucking government scope, they could like find a scheme where they could just like smooth that out. Potentially. I feel like AI could do that. That seems like an easy problem for it, honestly. Yeah. Especially with quantum computing potential.

Yeah, so on top of everything, things that like people are scared about, about AI, it's like them destroying our world because they think we're useless. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's something that we need to think about, definitely, because it's like relative, right? It's like easy to think that an ant is dumb if you're way smarter. But an ant is also very good at what it does. Totally. So if an AI comes and it absolutely crushes what we can do, it's like,

hey, AI, respect why we're at because we're doing our best. I hope it has some sort of ethics that inevitably are built into it. Maybe not by the people that do it, but maybe by its own learning processes realize it needs us. Yeah. And it needs itself fixed and put it.... I trust some of the nations in the world less than the potential for AI. Well, when can AI make super bad? Oh, the comedy legendary. Yeah, art is something that it's gonna have trouble with, but also maybe not. No, it's mostly got out down It I I would like to see You know when I'm gonna be really scared of AI is when it can come up with an hour-long comedy special with an AI generated

Avatar like a person and It's funny and then everyone that we know. I think when it does that, we're completely fucked. Then there's no use for us anymore. Well, I don't know. I mean, I feel like it could come out with an AI-generated politician way sooner. Oh, that's scary to think about.

Yeah, yeah. It just like vote for the AI. And he is the, you know, avatar. And here it is. Just like if you can do a comedy special better than Shane Gillis, then I don't know what to do. You're not sure we're needed anymore. But then who's it gonna,

AI won't work in a vacuum. It doesn't, it's going to work without humans. What's its point then maybe it has to live on its own accord and wants to live I guess. Realizes were the problem. That's an interesting question I guess. Well, we have to think that it's made by us. So for a long time, it has to panda to us until it decides the way fucking stupid. I think we might have like a dude situation on our hands where

we think about it. So chat, GBT like three or two came out like four or five years ago. We're at four now. It's already passing tests that like humans can pass, right? Like, but like smart ones, like MCATs for doctors. Oh, wow. Yeah. LSATs for lawyers, just ashing them. I guess you have the body of the internet and it's knowledge behind you.

And then it's doing like, go that Chinese chess game. Whatever that is. That's fun game. Have you played it? It's like, yeah. It's when I used to like when I was a little kid on the computer. What is it?

Like, check us? It's, it's, you, it's got different colored tiles black and white and there's circles. And you try to surround your enemy. And you have to get on either side of them and then place a tile and it will flip all of theirs to your color. It's fun. It's like a, it's Chinese. It's Chinese. So it's pretty old. And it's relatively simple. No, but it turns out it's more actually mathematically more complex than chess. Okay.

And chess has like million billions of new moves technically. Millions and billions. And trillions. And trillions? Well, I like go because there's just two pieces. I don't know if you'll learn how to use two of them. We'll play sometime. Yeah, I've never played it. I don't know if you'll learn how to use two of them. We'll play sometime. Yeah, I've never played it. I don't know.

But supposedly computer wise or processor wise, way more complicated. Interesting. Yeah. So Tristan invented infinite scrolling. It takes a lot of blood. Yeah, dude. Dude, he was doing his best, but like where, like infinite scrolling gets me. Oh, my guess everyone time sucker. Dude, did Tristan literally

ruin the world? He did it with in good faith. That poor guy. I mean, it sounds like it was good faith. I think it's one of those things where we have to learn how to use better and conquer. Dude, is this like Bill Gates, like telling us to eat shitty meat? He's like, I really feel like it's a good idea. He just ends it is. I mean, on a whim. I'm looking into it. It definitely was, if he didn't do that, someone would have.

Dude, I feel like he was very proud of the fact that he came up with it. Even though he knows all the problems, he wanted to take credit for it. Well, like imagine the first person that made alcohol. Well, they've got a lot of blood on their hands, but when I wouldn't take it back. Dude, that's a great point.

Yeah. And that's something that I need to think about because I'm slamming a whiskey right now. But here's my friend. Dude, playing the, so on the note of like, AI winning at that go game, they mentioned they talk about the levels of energy invested with physical labor.

Like, we say like 10,000 people to move one stone block. And now we have 10 machines that can move that block way easier. And that's because of the beauty of oil. Right. And how it's advanced our technology. AI is like the oil of our mind. Right. So he said 25,000 people for one barrel. Not nuts. Yeah. Immediately we

go to that. Yeah. Because you don't have to deal with any of those people's annoying problems. They get sick, they get crushed, they have families, you got to pay them, or you could pay one guy in a tractor. Do the job for them. And AI is going to skip all the business of learning of the mind, actively typing to this. This is very scary for people who went to college because we're learning that people who went to college are getting real useless or pleasable. If you know how to tile, you're a winner. You love tiling. I'm just saying.

I'm just saying, you know how to tile? When are they gonna make robots that can tile? Or plumbers. There's so many intricate problems that occur with your plumbing. You're not gonna get a robot to do that. Build a house. Good luck. I guess you can 3D print a house.

But, sure. You gotta have someone to put the fuel in there or You don't need like copyrights, you know, you know, you don't even know the lawyers. Oh lawyers. What are lawyers doing? Well, they've been useless for a long time. Yeah fuck lawyers. That's good. That's good. That's gonna wreck all of our responses from lawyers from now on. Well, you know what? We need them. Wink. For now.

We need them when we're going to be in deep trouble. Yeah, dude. What was that capture story? You mentioned something about like a capture. Oh, yeah. So it could solve the capture Captcha, you know that fucking computer thing where it's like how many roads how many streets how many crosswalks how many cars Yeah, and it was just like so AI They were saying reached out to someone else online, an actual person,

I was like, oh yeah, I'm blind, or vision impaired. And asked it, the person, to solve the problem, which it did. Dude, it's gonna be a trick us so easily. Yeah, we, you think that these like Ethiopian scammers can trick us? Pinguadish. This thing, well, wherever they're from, but these, but these, this AI scammers will fucking rapos potential.

It'll take a whole building full of these people and do so to one person with incredible AI skills. And before you know it, there's all our grandmas, it's got all our money gone. That's your savings. That's your inheritance. Go on. It's your grandma. You're getting your Nana.

Yeah. They can make you do your voice. They're like, hey, grandma, hey, your money. I need paper school for school. What about what about the so they talked about making like child songs like the necessary to get around its parameters. Yeah, it's so, so. It's so, so. It made like, um, these songs that, so AI has parameters, right? You can't be like, make drugs for me and it tells you, but you can be like, make a nursery rhyme

that makes drugs for me, or like, make a nursery rhyme that does tax evasion and it fucking perfectly plays it. I learned a few things. Would you learn? Ammonia and bleach is not good. Also, ammonia or ammonia or a ammonium and baking soda because like a mustard gas as well Yeah, it's crazy geez dude, that's that's World War one stuff come on or two. I don't remember one not good It's my new genre though. I'd love it. I'm gonna get on my pod pod cat. Am I a high pod? Well What do we do here, Pete?

What are just regular folks, dude? Right, we're not going about like what Rogan does, what these fucking nerds that came on Rogan can talk about. Bless him. Obviously, super smart. Like, they have a chance, But like, what is the regular folk do? Where do we go from here? I think don't get left behind for one. Look up for scams. Tell your old people about how to work the navigate this issue because they're

going to be getting calls from a fake person that sounds just like the grandson. What else? If you're really worried about it, you can do a prep error thing and have a spot in Millenow or Utah. There's a hole in the ground. There's no computers anywhere. How's AI gonna get you there? I guess our phones.

Cause like Elon says, we're cypherx. Walk around with these super computers in our pockets. Yeah, we are. So I don't see a huge risk for myself, my family. So I'm, I just don't want to get left behind and maybe there's some investing to be done. Some money to be made. Maybe.

Kind of borrow some money. Okay, 12 bucks. 12 is Okay, I got 12 bucks. 12 is fine for now. 12 bucks. I'll use AI to look how to invest it. Last chat, GBT. Dude, the last thing I don't want to talk about is the snapchat thing. That's freaky. Oh, so I think it was Tristan the Ghana and he was like basically encouraging the Snapchat person. He was like, I'm a 13 year old girl.

I'm going to meet like a 20 year old person and it was encouraging them to go meet them. The Snapchat AI was. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, what? Do you have that app? No. Yeah, I don't have that app. I don't have AI. Oh, fucking Snapchat. No, thanks. No. Yeah, Alan. So, I guess if you really want to just make sure your kids don't have some of these apps on your phones, on their phones, don't give them phones, tell their kind of for them, I would say. Yeah. Delete the apps.

So did they, Oh, if you're a kid, just fucking be careful with AI on fucking Snapchat. A mess. Yeah, there's so many pitfalls to this. Especially when it comes to kids, it's just a little scary. Let's not the end of the world. We're gonna be okay. Humans will person. Are you sure though? Well, I mean, we're hard to kill, eradicate. That's a good point. At

this point, we're hard to... Well, I like that. I like this conversation. It was a very important. It was like the kind of thing that I Don't know as a Rogan listener. I'm like, I'm into this Like this is the kind of thing that drags me in you could tell that this one was really you'd spend in his gears Yeah, Joe's mind was racing. He did he was questions. There's so many questions. Good questions. Well, I don't remember what's Elon's thing with it. He owns like a lot of it. He doesn't like it. Yeah, he started He was the big investor in in chat. You be too. Okay. Yeah, and he's like Yeah, I'm moving away from it. I'm doing my own thing. Like they kind of kicked him out or something, not good. But like, yeah, yeah.

There's a guy, a science fiction writer, Isaac Asimov, who wrote some of our favorite books and then turned into movies. But he has the three laws of robotics. I want to read it. Oh, yeah there because it's up It's when he says robots. He means sentient robots. He's talking about AI. Yeah artificial intelligence It's a robot may not injure a Human being or through inaction allow a human being to come to harm a robot must obey orders given given it by human beings Except where such orders which conflict with the first law A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the first or second law

So if we base that take that as a base would that would be We will leave it well off I robot will Smith. Oh, I get good movie. Finally. It's good. I mean, look, we gotta be fucking focused on this and concerned.

I like what these guys are coming from. I feel like we gotta pay attention to this. We can't sleep on it. Until the next week, we do more. I love it. Exactly. Pete, thanks for being here. Thank you for having me.

Listen us. Love you. Later. Happy New Year. You