Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - 405 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Graham Handcock Et al.

Episode Date: October 22, 2024

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agreement with iGaming Ontario. You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast and pass them on to you, perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's walking dead. You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created. Now with your host, Adam Thorn. I'll say something about John Hoopes and Flint Dibble in this context, which is that if individuals

who define themselves as archaeologists find themselves spending more and more of their lives just attacking the work of other people, Well, what archaeology are they doing? What have they contributed to human knowledge? When I look at Flint Dibble and I look at John Hoopes, the answer I come to is virtually zero. Ooh, there we go. Graham Hancock coming in strong. Coming in hot. That was him on Chris Williamson's podcast. And I think that was about a week ago, maybe like, yeah, about a week ago.

Obviously we're reviewing his episode on Rogan, which started out a similar way. Yeah, there's still some major beef from Dibble coming on Rogan and talking with Hancock. It's a bit of a shame that it didn't bring them closer together. I think that was the idea of it. You set up a good debate, hopefully there's a solid mediator which is Rogan and he can bring a little bit of good behavior to the episode. That did not happen. It was a pretty ugly podcast to watch. So for that reason, I was much happier to see Graham go on Rogan on his own.

You know, also because he's promoting his new season of Ancient Apocalypse on Netflix, which is excellent. I've watched almost all of it now, really good. Just as good as the first season. You know, a lot of times with these shows, and I mean, Ancient Aliens did something similar. It's like they give you all the best stuff right away. All the best best stories because they're trying to capture you. You know, they're going to use it all up. And then by season two and three, it just they've got nothing left to

point out. But yeah, I've got to say, I mean, typically history kind of puts me to sleep, you know, like there's not also, I wouldn't say always, but often and something about that show, the way that it's produced the way the things that they talk about it's just like oh my god like this kind of hard to wrap your mind around some of the things that are discussed on that or that he you know is investigating and You know what my mind just goes to with watching it and seeing him and how enthusiastic he is about so much of this You know things that he's discovered

and is that like, can you imagine being so curious and so like, just the desire to learn more than what's already out there that you go to these great lengths and you obviously he's got the Netflix production team kind of behind him now. But like prior to ancient apocalypse, like there was a lot that he was investigating or that he was trying to discover before the show. So, I mean, it's really easy to pick up a book and read what's already published or already theorized that's out there,

but to basically turn it on its head and say, I'm gonna see what else is out there that isn't been researched yet or that hasn't been talked about and see what I can like disprove and prove in turn. So I mean, that's where my mind just went every time I, he talks about something and like, why is this, why is this like not been discovered yet? Or like talked about more when it's like so drastically like Impactful to the his timeline of human history, right? Well, it's you know, and that's the that's why he does it because basically

there we've known about these old structures and formations for Many many years. We just can't, archaeology doesn't categorize them very well. They either dismiss it because it's like, well, wait a second, that's underwater. And the last time that this wasn't underwater was like, you know, the ice age. And these civilizations shouldn't exist. They shouldn't be able to build a wall like this or a temple or a monument or a pyramid. So

it just kind of gets ignored. And the sad part about that is the exploration into it stops as well. And what he's been doing is looking at all these old sites for so long writing about them, theorizing them, being shit on by archaeologists and the academics and still pushing through. And then there's the discovery of things like Gobekli Tepe, which are dated to like 13,000 years ago or some crazy number. And that throws everything on its head I mean it really opens up the idea that what Graham has been discussing about these civilizations being far older and far more advanced than archaeologists thought It shows that it could be true

So, you know, it's getting tricky for them and I think that's why people like Dibble and others are getting so defensive because it's not just that they're trying to keep all this type of discovery in the field of their expertise. Like, oh, unless you study this and you have a PhD, you really can't judge this. And we know what we're talking about. But they're also trying to protect their timeline, which they've created, which is probably way the fuck off. They were wrong. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a hard pill to swallow for when there's been, you know,

years and years and decades and decades of people kind of running with the information that's out there and building timelines based on what one person has put out or that, you know, a small group of people. And then all of a sudden here comes this person with, you know, a degree in sociology, I think is what he has. And he's like, uh, actually let me just prove a lot of this and let me, you know, put out and discover more

than any of you have just at a, at a pure like, what's the word, not determination, but like just the gumption to like, no, and to learn it. Yeah. Just curiosity. Yeah. I get all that, but it's just sad because, because what we're trying to strive for is accuracy, right?

You know, like a, like an accurate historical timeline, which feeds into archaeology as well. Yeah. And it's like, when did people come about? Yeah. You know, it's like, if somebody discovers that the first ape stood up on two legs and became bipedal at 14 million years ago, when we thought it was actually two, then we've got to adjust it. at 14 million years ago when we thought it was actually two, then we've got to adjust it. If there's new data, it's like how much of that data

do we need before like, oh, this is now fact. Right. You know, it's like Gobekli Tepe was discovered in carbon dated to be that old, but the archeology didn't really push back their time. The timeframe, they just see it as, oh, that was just kind of one-off and got buried with no real explanation. It changes so much. I mean, what it really changes is the idea like we date all the pyramids and the Sphinx. There

are people that believe that could be way, way older too. And a lot of people in Egypt are massively against that. People that have been teaching Egyptian history are really against it. It's almost like they're willing to cover it up so they don't have to discuss it. Yeah. He's been to a few minutes talking about, I think it was white sands, the footprints that were discovered in white sands, the footprints that were discovered in white sands and how they just like, there was layers and layers and layers and you know, so many layers of them, there's human footprints walking alongside a mammoth, you know, or

a mammoth footprint goes right into where these, so it's like they walked the same paths and these like massive mammoth footprints and like just to try to imagine, like try to recreate in your mind the world where humans walked across or walked the same path as a mammoth is just it's almost unfathomable. It almost like makes your head spin, like trying to think that humans could be so old that that's happening. But at the same time, there's still interactions. You can see, as he said, the interactions between humans when people,

you know, walk towards each other and turned away, children walking alongside parents and, or, you know, adults, assumingly parents and like, you know, you imagine the humans or the, the, like the homeo sapiens that like lived in that time, maybe weren't the same as us, right? In terms of they didn't, maybe didn't have their same language or whatever, but physically, they still acted in a lot of the same ways. And we, you know, are still learning, of course, you know, what kind of language and at what point that all developed. But, you know, that was just like a

real vivid picture that he was painting was that, you know, as you're discovering more and more of this in all of these ancient sites, like you can sort of imagine this life and that we can't really ever, we won't ever recreate, you know, but that is... This podcast is brought to you by DraftKings Casino. The days might be getting shorter, but the action on DraftKings Casino is here to stay. Play hundreds of games for endless excitement. Try your hand at classic table games, or set the slots on fire with fan favorites like

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casino customer. Casino credits are non-withdrawable and expire in 168 hours. Terms at casino.draftkings.com slash get 50 ends October 6th, 2024. Well, nuclear war might take us back there. If you blow up enough of the planet and get down to about 200 humans and all the buildings are destroyed, we're pretty much just wandering around Beth. But sadly, the mammoths are gone. So we won't have mammoths. That's very true. How big was a mammoth? Let's see there. I think they're slightly smaller than an elephant

Like regular elephant. I think they're bigger than an elephant. Oh, maybe Look at my roughly the same size as a modern African elephant Males reach shoulder heights between two point six and three point four meters eight feet and nine inches and eleven feet five inches they weighed 3.6 and 3.4 meters, eight feet and nine inches and 11 feet, five inches. They weighed 3.8 and oh my gosh, 3.9 and 8.2 tons. 3.9 to 8.9? Yeah, between 3.9 and 8.2 tons. Yeah, big ass creatures and hairy. Yeah.

But I mean, we knew that humans, um, lived and hunted and at least ate mammoth. We just didn't know that they were in the Americas. And that's why the white sands, um, area in New Mexico is so remarkable because it just, it preserved these footprints in this kind of clay or mud. It's been covered up by sand and It proves that they were around there like 25,000 years ago possibly that's much older than we thought as well and What's interesting about that is like that is proven now, so we know it right so does that mean that immediately? They go back and write the history books of the, you know, understanding of archaeology?

Yeah, that's interesting. It's like how and when is there enough evidence for a change to be made? Yeah. And, you know, back to the criticism on Dibble, which to be fair, I think is a little harsh only because regardless of what he said to Hancock, Hancock is more famous, probably wealthier, I'm sure. And, um, yeah, being ridiculed sucks, but Dibble is just not that popular. He has no way to, to really defend himself against a Rogan army. And I mean, have you seen the guy?

Yeah. Well, I don't mean, I don't mean physically, but, but yeah, I mean, he's a hard guy to defend. I think it's just going to be, he's getting, he's going to get hammered for this. And really all he was trying to do is just come on and just show that being academically trained as an archaeologist, there are procedures and routes that they take before they decide that something is quote unquote fact or should go in the archaeological kind of record. And this is why.

And obviously, Hancock has a different approach to that. They didn't get on. There was some arguing, it got ugly. But yeah, he's going to get blasted for this. For sure. What was another episode that really stood out to you in Ancient Apocalypse? Oh, well, there's this place in New Mexico. It's like Northwest New Mexico where they built that.

Did they describe it as like a town or a temple? And it had all those circles in? Yeah, it was like. Ah, shit, I forget the name of the place. I should have wrote that down. Pablo Bonita or something. Like, basically like beautiful town. Right.

But it's in a really unusual location. It's kind of in this like valley almost, or it's in a really unusual location. It's kind of in this like valley almost, or it's just surrounded by mountains. And there were a bunch of these kind of quite large complex buildings. In fact, it was the largest building in the United States until like the 19th century, and it was built maybe a thousand years ago or something. They're not even sure. Yeah. And it's not exactly in, like, I am fair, like a little bit familiar with that area of New Mexico and there isn't shit up there.

It's not like there's great rivers or amazing land for growing food. It's pretty fucking isolated. It's interesting. It almost looks alien. Like it looks like something aliens could have built. You know? Right. And yeah, it is really, that was a very interesting episode. And what's cool about it is like some of the rooms

don't even have very obvious ways to get in. Yeah. Like. So curious. It's almost like they were just built closed off. There's just a lot of strange mysteries to that area. And this is why shows like his show are more interesting than watching about the history of Rome or the Mongols or something else in the past, because it's like those are timelines that make sense.

They're just telling you a story. But here there's like, hey, just so you know, this was built by humans. We don't know who, rough, basically when, and also we're not even sure how they could have done it. Yeah. And that's what's really interesting. Well, and then they talked about it being like a, it was like a center for migration. So people, the intention was to like draw people to it. There wasn't like a normal, like a real,

there wasn't evidence of a consistent, like large population there, but this was like one of the largest and best known, they call them great houses. And it was, you know, designed to house a lot of people, but there wasn't evidence of a lot of people that had died there. So people were coming and going,

and it was supposed to be a trade center, essentially. So it was at one point the largest structure in North America, and extremely well-built. And I mean, some of it's still standing. So then they talked a little bit about, you know. They found artifacts from like all over the Americas there, right? Even down to Mexico and other places. Yeah, because I think that was part of like the evidence of people were bringing things there,

like almost to trade and to like, it was like a center for science and culture and trade and art and, you know, that again, you know, kind of back to that idea of like trying to imagine life then it's like so interesting and like makes you want, you know, you know, like when you go to those like Western towns and they like recreate the life of it, you know, like you get to like go back in time, like, like do that with one of these, like,

I think it would be so cool to just, you know, like you get to like go back in time, like, but do that with that one of these, like, I think it would be so cool to just, you know, go back and, and then another thing they talked about was they have all these, gosh, can't remember the name of it, but basically these like ceremonial circle type spaces, like a bunch of them. And these are like a trend across different historical archeology sites. And there's evidence of, you know, different hallucinogenic, like ceremonial happenings there. So, you know, in South America, it's like ayahuasca is obviously a big deal. And that's been happy been being used for, you know, connecting to the spirit world for

a long time. And then they talked about in Pueblo Bonita, there was evidence of this hallucinogenic tobacco that they use. Oh, that's right. And so they're finding evidence that that type of ceremony was so popular throughout history. Getting fucked up has been popular for a long time.

And if you can connect it to seeing God. Right. Right. And if you think about it, of all the drugs that they make legal today, it's like tobacco, we're allowed, caffeine and alcohol. Those ones are universally legal around the world. None of them are hallucinogenic because they don't give you the hallucinogenic tobacco anymore. I didn't even know it existed

till this, but alcohol is not doing it. You're not getting spiritual moments from alcohol. Just isn't happening. So it's all the other ones that get you close to God or that they used to use to like see the spirits and the apparitions and all that. All of those have been banned. And I'm sure this question has been asked by many people like you, unlike you throughout history, especially in modern day history. Like why are things like hallucinogenic mushrooms or psychedelic mushrooms, why are certain drugs that have become legal, that there's really no, there's very little health risk to use.

But I've heard this argument many times before that maybe it's because they want to sort of, like, I don't know, the term boxin isn't right, but keep us like from seeing more about the world, right. And like growing our knowledge and like, you know, psilocybin allows you to sort of think bigger and, um, yeah, go live in the woods instead of in that dumb society, right.

And of course, I mean, of course that's what they're afraid of. Yeah. In mass people would start to do these drugs. And question them. And question the whole system that we are oppressed under. Rather, you can just get jazzed up on nicotine and caffeine and then later on when you need to wind down, just drink and get depressed and forget what you were trying to think about. Yeah.

And then go to work tomorrow. I mean, of course. Yeah. Of course. Yeah, it's very interesting. Highly recommend the show. I mean, if you haven't watched it, the second season just came out and it was just, I mean, extremely interesting, entertaining. And yeah.

Yeah. It's excellent. I'm a big fan of Graham. It's so cool to see a second series coming out and Keanu Reeves is in it, which is dope. Yeah. So hopefully Rogan can get Keanu on the show. Now he's got an in.

He's got an in. All right, let's jump over to Diane Boyd. Diane is a very interesting person from Montana, who at least lives there now, and is a wolf expert. Really? Yeah, she's an author. Her book's called A Woman Among Wolves, My Journey Through 40 Years of Wolf Recovery. And I have to say, like, I haven't been so excited about a Joe Rogan podcast in a minute. I mean, there's been some very eye-opening ones, don't get me wrong, some very hilarious ones, but I would by no means call myself a wolf gal, but I... I wouldn't either.

There was something about Diane that was just so interesting. And it's like you just wanted to keep hearing her talk. And it was funny, I was searching while I was listening and someone started a Reddit thread about the podcast. And basically it's in that same vein. This, you know, Dan Boyd is so interesting. I wish Joe would just shut the fuck up basically because he, he just like kept

wanting to tell his stories about his interactions with animals and whatever. And she was like, yeah, no, those happen. Like, so you can't surprise her, but everything she said was like, tell me more, tell me more kind of thing. And she, she sort of just like let little bits of it out at a time. You could tell Joe was like trying to pull more out of her, but it still was incredibly interesting. You know, we learned a lot about wolves, like that they only live 4.3 years on average. Yeah, I didn't know that. You would think it would be a lot longer than that.

Well, I mean, how long does the average dog live? Like 11 years? Yeah, 12 maybe 12 to 14, depending on the breed. Okay. Yeah. Um, but like since they all evolved, well, not evolved, but were bred from wolves. If you just kind of average that out, I can imagine it'd be the same. And now this is domestic dogs that we're talking about.

Right. Yeah. Obviously in the wild, it has to be shorter because they're getting attacked. Yeah, well, and they spend so much energy on breeding and eating is how she explained it, that their lives, they just wear out basically. And then they have, there's so much,

I mean, it's basically like how humans lifespan has gone thousands of years or thousands of years. Yeah, because we don't have to hunt for it. We don't have to hunt. Everything's easier. So go to the store. Obviously You just drive to the store. That's the biggest risk you take is driving to the store. I just go honey. What's for dinner? There's also risk in that but it is I have to be polite all day but yeah, but I mean, you know We also learned that as in terms of their Killing efficiency. They're less efficient than a mountain lion. Oh yeah, I knew about that.

You know, this is how efficient mountain lions are. And I think I got this from Steve Ronella podcast, I'm pretty sure. But anyway, there were some people tracking a mountain lion and they kept coming across these kills that were not eaten. And what they realized is this is how the mountain lions keep the wolves off them, is they are so effective hunters, they hunt alone, the mountain lions do, they will kill something, leave it for the wolves. So the wolves will focus on that and then they can go kill something else. The wolves aren't even actually doing

that much hunting. Now they can and they do, but this is what some wolves do in some areas is just basically just follow these mountain lions around. I mean, mountain lines are a whole different creature. They are so massive. They could probably kill a whole pack of wolves. I don't really know, but it would be close. And then, you know, we both lived in Montana for a time. I lived there for almost 14 years. There's three times more mountain lines than wolves in Northwest Montana. Wow. And they're a lot bigger, but you don't know that they're there.

Oh, you never know. They watch you and you know not, didn't you encounter a mountain lion? Yeah, so I went, I went two times and technically I kind of didn't see him either time. Right. I kinda didn't see him either time. But one time I went with a Green Beret buddy of mine, we ended up on the top of this hill slash mountain, basically just a hill, but a steep ass shale hill to climb up. We get to the very top and there was a cave up there,

right at the top. It was so wild. It was almost like what you would see in a cartoon or a scary story. It was so wild. It was almost like what you would see in a cartoon or a scary story. It just didn't make sense. There was like a cave at the top. As we were going in the cave, there were a bunch of bones

and we realized there were mountain lion tracks in there and we were like fucking out of there fast. Guarantee that thing was somewhere around watching us, but you know, keeping their distance and they're so silent. You know you're there. You never see them. Oh my gosh, they're so, they're such crazy animals.

And then another time after a bow hunt, we were walking back and we saw some eyes in the field and they were bright, I think it was bright yellow, which is what they have, which just looked unusual. I was like, that's not anything that I could see. And I could tell they were coming towards us because they were like almost getting bigger. But unlike other animals, when you see their eyes at night, their eyes are bouncing around because that's how they move. Well, the cats don't, they run at you

and keep their heads real still. It was real scary. And it didn't get very close to us before it took off because they don't really want to interact with humans at all. But it was just probably really curious to like what the hell we were. Oh, it would have killed both of us so fast. We would have had no chance. Yeah.

Yeah, in that vein, she talked about kind of like the intuition of being in danger. And you know, when dangerous president, like, you can sometimes, you know, after being in the woods, like after so long, she was she has a cabin out in the middle of nowhere. She's like 50 miles off the grid, she hauls all her food and her water from the stream and all of this, but sometimes she's out there and she can just like, she just like gets this feeling that there's danger of what, and you know, they were questioning like, is that primitive

or is it a coincidence and... Is it like real Spidey sense? Yeah, like... I have a feeling that, you know, people that, how do they say it? Like in tune with nature. Yeah. You know, like you've been out there a long time. You've really slowed down to kind of like the pace of what's happening. Like you're paying attention to the, to the river running, the sound of it,

and just the breeze and the cracking of things. I think your senses probably get pretty heightened, and then you're connected to what's happening out there, and there probably are some senses that keep you just aware of what's going on. And I mean, I think it probably takes some time, right, to feel that obviously we're so plugged in here, like we're not aware of anything.

We'd be killed instantly in the wild. Yeah, but like once you're there, like, you know, she says she lived alone there for like, what, four years? And then like all, like that's when you, you know, after several months, you start to really develop this like sixth sense of, you know, what's happening around you

even when you can't see it, you know? Where's the power line? Well, you know, and also she around you even when you can't see it. Yeah. You know, where's the mountain lion? You know, and also she's building on the back of 40 years of studying and recovering like wild wolf populations in, you know, the remote Northwest and, you know, Glacier National Park, Montana. I mean, it's all really hard, hard living up there. Right.

What did she say at one point? She had a little cabin, no power, no internet, and then she broke her foot or something? Yeah, she like fell down the stairs, broke her foot, and then realized she needed to get Starlink. Yeah. She couldn't be out there anymore completely alone, but then when she goes out there, she leaves it off and only turns it on when she really wants there, she leaves it off and, um, you

know, only turns it on when she like really wants to, or needs to connect for some reason. The crazy thing about that whole setup is, is you're more at risk of injuring yourself than you would be in regular life. Right. Because you're having to do more difficult things. Right. All the time. Yeah.

Like you've got to go out and chop firewood. Well, you know, you're using an axe, you're just being more physical, you're stepping in the snow. Right. You know, it's like, so not only is there a heightened risk of actual injury, but on the back of that, you've got no ability to fix yourself if it actually happens. Yeah. She said, she talked a lot about how,

you know, through 40 years of working with, you know, wild animals, bears, wolves, you know, mountain lions, essentially, she, in her book, she tells a lot of like really personal stories and she's always really kept to herself, but she talks about how some of the scariest times in her life actually involved humans, not wolves and grizzly bears. Right. Yeah.

That's a concept that's like, oh, my gosh. Like, can I mean, humans can do a lot of damage. Well, you know, if you're out with, you know, you've got a cabin out there. I guess I guess bears could smash the door down because they're very powerful and they could get in. And, but you know, usually those like cabin doors, pretty fricking strong, you know, and you've got like a big log that kind of comes

over the back of it just to lock it in. I'm sure you have guns and you might be able to scare it away, making noises. Like they're not generally trying to just come in and attack you. The wolves wouldn't be able to get in at all unless you were dumb enough to leave the door open or the windows. But if you've got two guys out there that are geared out to be out there,

so probably armed, they're walking around so they know that kind of area and they know that you can scream all you want, no one's coming. Like why are they there? Like that's real creepy. kind of area and they know that you can scream all you want. No one's coming. Yeah. Like why are they there? Like that's real creepy. I mean, Joe gave the example of like, you know, anything in the woods is scary. Right.

A little baby is cute. It's the most harmless thing ever. You saw a little baby in the woods on its own. Like how the fuck did this baby get here? What's going on? You should really question it. Like maybe. Yeah, everything, things become a horror movie real fast.

I was just gonna say that. Like this sounds like we're writing a horror film. Yeah. But you know, it's, it's, gosh, like the idea of how, the things that humans can do. I mean, you know, there was a guy, you know, obviously on the topic of wolves and they brought this up too,

but there was a guy who hit, he obviously on the topic of wolves and they brought this up too, but there was a guy who hit, he ran over a wolf with his snowmobile intentionally. Yeah. And then he dragged it crippled to a bar with its mouth taped. I'm sure many of you have heard this story and then let people pet it for an hour while it was like, you know, in crippling pain and then took it out back and shot it.

Yeah, that's fucked up. Like a bear would not do that. A wolf would not like intentionally torture you for fun and entertainment. No, a cat might do it with a mouse, but they are kind of training when they do that. Yeah, I mean, if they're hungry, they're just gonna eat it, right?

And gosh, I mean, I, that's just like one story about like how animal, humans impact wildlife in inadvertent ways. I mean, obviously that's like very direct, but they also discussed how impacts, humans impact wildlife populations as a whole. They gave the example of elk in Yellowstone and how they feel safer around humans

because there's no wolves. The wolves do not come near them and they don't fear hunters really even because they know that wolves don't come near hunters. Like because again they're not efficient enough killers like a mountain lion to kill a human necessarily. They might wound you but individually they're not going to hurt you. And so that's a very sad concept that we've affected wildlife populations so much, even up in these really remote areas like Montana, that people take a lot of pride in conservation. Humans just have a big impact.

Anywhere we are, we're going to have a big impact. You even take an area where one family homesteads, right? So they build a little cabin, you know, maybe they've carved out a bit of an area for, you know, some garden, you know, to grow some food. Maybe they've even fenced in a small area and have a couple of horses. I mean, now all of a sudden, you know, the bears aren't wandering through that area anymore, because they're very suspicious of what they're seeing. The wolf area that they explore, like it's so many hundred acres probably,

all of a sudden that changes. I mean, humans just have a big impact always. So you start adding a lot of them and they're hunting. It's game changer. Well, you talk about bears, like when a bear learns to, or like, you know, like when you go camping in bear country, you have to lock your food up, right? You have to block your food up because if a bear learns or gets a taste or finds that it's easy to get food out of a car or out of a, you know, camp tent or something, they

just keep going back and they keep going back because it's really hard to scavenge for their food. Berries. It's honestly a terrible thing for many reasons. It's not just number one, they take all your food. Two, it encourages them to come near your camp, which puts you in danger. But again, once they've had a taste for just human food, they start seeking it out.

They go to trash cans, they go to people's homes, and those beds generally do have to be put down. It's so sad. And then they talked about it with wolves too. In Montana, there's big cattle ranches, and you build the cattle ranch in wolf territory. All of the Montana plains are wolf territory. And you build, you put a hundred or 300 cattle there. Well, that's just like, it's like open season for them.

They're like, great. You've pinned up all my food for me. Like, and then sort of this facade where they say move the animals. They have this like initiative where they like relocate the wolves, but ultimately it leads to the wolves dying because they say they're relocating them so they don't have to kill them because they're eating the cattle, but ultimately they die earlier anyways because they've gotten used to having easy, easy food. Right.

And same thing with the bears, you know, you could relocate them, but then they're all, they're just like, it's like domesticating an animal. Like you can't then just release it into the wild cause they aren't going to know how to survive in the same capacity that another animal would. Well, talking about like relocating them or even reintroducing them, they, she was talking about the tracking technology that they were using on these different wolves.

And back in the day, they had this wolf that they could see traveled something like 500 miles in seven months. Yeah. Imagine how difficult that is, because not only is it constantly traveling, you know, that's a lot of walking and movement, but it has to eat the whole time. And it's constantly in a new environment. New environments, new areas. I mean, they're excellent hunters, so they're just constantly figuring it out, but that seems like an incredible feat.

And then this wolf basically got to a place where there were no other wolves. I don't know if that was its plan. Maybe it kind of is, because it's safer and other wolves aren't, you know, challenging you. But it was alone for many years and then did meet up with a female and then started to breed and just basically created a wolf pack. But gosh, I want to look at that GPS chart and just see where the wolves are and how they're migrating. Don't you have that

on your phone and like, where are they now? It't you? It's so interesting. Just want to have that on your phone and be like, where are they now? Yeah, it's super interesting. I mean, this is how interesting the behavior of animals is. People do that with their cats. They have little GPS trackers on their cats, and then they see where they went in the neighborhood, and then the cats do weird things.

Cats will wait. and then the cats do weird things. Like cats will like wait, you know, if the owner has a dog and walks it twice a day, they see that the cat likes to like watch and follow behind, you know, but stay hidden. It's just like, it's just fascinating. Like what are they up to? Where are they going? I love cats so much.

And, you know, I mean, just pets in general. I think animals really invigorate your life and a whole pet love is like another level of love that, you know, obviously children are incredible and, you know, being married and all these things, but like the love of a pet is so special. And I'm sure so many people out there can relate to that. But it's like that with all wildlife, I mean,

she's saved and helped so many wolves. And I don't know how close of a relationship you can really have with a wolf only because they know they're quite dangerous. You can't really domesticate it, right? You can't have like your own house wolf. I mean, they're a little too wild. But she talked about naming them.

So some of them that are really special to her that she's tracked for many years, she names them and makes them feel more like a pet, right? And also the ones that they all have a number, right? Like the ones that are numbered and tagged and just knowing their number, she, you know, know 412 or whatever it is, 908, like she knows them by their number

and she kind of like pictures their life from beginning to end. She knows where they were born. She knows where they're they've died, if they've died already, like, and that's a, that's a total world again, like we can't even imagine being a part of until you are. And like, it'd be so interesting. Well, how sad was it to hear that 25% of them got killed outside of the park, outside of Yellowstone. Obviously you can't hunt in Yellowstone. But because they are, you know, they don't know where the park's end is, so they keep going and they get into areas where hunters will get them and a quarter of them got taken out. Yeah, I mean, so they're, I don't know if anyone else follows, so again, kind of talking about naming wolves and, you know, these wolves up in Yellowstone. The white lady, she had had like, I don't know, four litters and like had had like at one point like the most in one litter than they had ever seen.

She was like a white wolf, which is a really rare, she's absolutely beautiful. And she was injured, she was shot by a hunter, was not killed instantly. He didn't have a tag to shoot her. Oh dear. And she basically- Did they catch him? They did catch the person. And I don't know how they would have,

but I don't know, I'd have to look up the story again, but there was like this whole campaign to raise money for awareness about like not killing wolves, like that you knew needed to be, that should have been in Yellowstone and that were protected. And she had lived in Yellowstone like her whole life or for a big part of her life.

And she had helped to repopulate Yellowstone with wolves naturally, even though they did bring some in. And like- Did she end up dying from the injury? Oh yeah, she died, but like it took her days. Like she, it was like a really sad story. I'd have you look up the story if you're interested, like, but I had a sweatshirt and like,

I felt like close to this wolf. Like I had obviously never seen her. I was, I'm not a hunter personally, but like, I, you know, had been to Yellowstone a few times and you do, you kind of like, oh, am I going to see a wolf? And like, usually don't like, you know, even hunters want to make sure that people are doing it ethically, you know, they have tags and that, you know, they're, they're taking out the right animals at the right time.

Right. But, Oh, this was so sad. And yeah, she was, she was a bit older. She was one of the oldest female wolves there. And she, yeah, just very special, very special story. I had a sweatshirt, I wore it for years and it had like, like, you know, the dates of her, the year she was born and the year she died. It was, yeah, 2017 she died. Yeah, well, I mean, it's a hard life out in the wild.

And then when you get hunters like that, that give hunters in general a bad name, it's just really sad story. But you know, thank God there's people like Diane out there doing great work, bringing awareness to the situation with wolves and, um, keeping their habitat strong, tracking them, learning about what they're doing, seeing where the numbers are. I mean, they're incredible creatures and as long as one isn't chasing you, then they are fantastic and I support it. Well, that's it for this week.

A couple of really good podcasts. Shane Smith was also on the vice guy. If you were interested in vice, it's worth a listen for sure. We're going to skip that one, uh, just because of time, but, um, you know, back in the day, I used to like vice a lot and, uh, yeah, kind of got a little bit woke and it went the way it went, but you can listen to Shane's appearance on Rogan for all the deets there. Otherwise, thank you guys so much. I appreciate it and we'll talk to you next week. Thanks, y'all. slots including Atlantean treasures. Everything's online. Everything's ready. Everything's for you. So whenever you're feeling playful head to Jackpot City

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