Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - 412 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Evan Hafer

Episode Date: November 24, 2024

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Now with your host, Adam Thorne. This might either be the worst podcast or the best one of all time. One, go. Enjoy the show. Yes, that's fun. Hey, guys, and welcome to another episode of the JRE review. This is this is a good one. We are reviewing Evan Hafer's conversation with Rogan. And I wanted to bring a good buddy, mine and special guest Aaron,

who is retired special forces and has, you know, is these types of stories that Evan was getting into. And why I wanted to do it is because I was shocked with how little I knew about what went on over there in Afghanistan or what their culture is like or any of it. And it's not like I expected to know a lot, but this was just way out there for me. And to think that military people have to do all the shit they had to do over there, and on top of that, there's this other weird dynamic that maybe they can't, couldn't even really talk about or feel comfortable talking about. I was like, I don't know. It's just some wild shit. So, uh, Aaron,

glad to have you here, buddy. Yeah, thanks Adam. I appreciate it. It was a good podcast. So, you know, we were talking a little bit before about, you know, you know some people that know Evan. You hadn't heard him talk much or articulate much of his experience and so on. What was your feel for him? Like when you're listening to him talk and knowing the other guys in that world, like what you feel. Yeah, that's a great question. So like, I think that guys like that are automatically separated from like you're just like typical run of the mill veteran. And I don't say that to be mean.

But the first thing I noticed about him is that he's comfortable with himself. He articulates the truth. He was brave in the sense that he was able to talk about a lot of things that nobody talks about. It's mostly what people don't want to hear. And I just I was immediately just drawn into the podcast based on the content. And yeah, it's just like what he was able to articulate gave me some words for things that I didn't know how to talk about. And you just don't hear too many people going into the nuances of cultures and war and bureaucratic bullshit. of cultures and war and bureaucratic bullshit and like just like the ambivalence of military service of like, man, it's like it made us who we were, but all of these other things

also happened. And so I really appreciated the podcast. You know, he is no one that I've worked with before, but definitely connected through probably like one or two people. So yeah, I, I, I liked the podcast. I thought if anybody really wants to know what life is like in the special operations, uh, specifically Iraq, Afghanistan, it's a, it's a good lesson. Now, what do you think it is about him? And obviously this is just, you know, it's a four and a half hour pod that it's maybe not enough to get like a real idea. But what was it about him do you think that allows him to articulate this message so differently

than than other special forces guys, for example? I mean, one thing I noticed from him is he just there wasn't a ton of ego in that conversation I know he knows Joe but yeah he was there wasn't like bravado coming from him and I was wondering if that was helping him get his message across I mean he immediately talked about shitting his pants which I thought was fucking hilarious but you mean you mean any special operations guys they're gonna they're gonna love talking about shit in their pants. I did. I shit my pants several times in military. It was great.

It made for some great stories. I shit myself in seer school when I was in the the special forces Q course and I saw guys seven years later running down Disney, which is a road in Boggham Air Force Base. And like the instant I saw this guy, he was like, hey dude, I don't remember your name, but I remember you shit your pants in Sears school. But anyway, yeah, I think to answer your question,

yeah, I didn't really feel or sense any ego. And I think really, dude, it just comes down to just the guy doesn't give a fuck. He is, he knows who he is. He has sifted through and avoided the, you know, like he said, working for the man, he's created a life for himself that he can be honest. He's not selling anything like dude black black rifle copy does pretty well He wasn't on there trying to be a caricature of himself, which I appreciated I think he was just honest upfront, you know the stories that he told were

Articulate and they also had a lot of humility that come with them I think the one that comes to mind that I really appreciated was his story about freaking out in its first ambush. I mean, that was me too. And the quote that he gave was so potent about psychology being as contagious as the flu. Oh yeah. And dude, that could be, that could be written on the walls of many, many different organizations. And people would, people could operate that way. If people could operate that way and understand the severity of like how much you exude in your behavior

and how you present yourself is going to rub off on everyone around you. And I experienced a situation very similar to what he described. We got spun up for a quick response force to go in because there was an IED that blew up another ODA, which is another special forces team. And we were all freaking out in the ready room. We were over in Afghanistan and our team sergeant just like who was super calm most of the time,

I would say like 90% of the time, he just was like, Hey, everybody shut the fuck up. Stop, we're going to do three things. We're gonna fucking get on a helicopter. We're gonna secure the objective. And then, you know, we're gonna make sure that team is safe so they can get out of there. And that was it. And everybody shut up and they kept going.

You need someone in a position of authority to bring people back to reality. Right. And the next part of that is like, dude, you don't have a solution to a problem, shut the fuck up. And I love that. That's a great quote. Dude, I feel like I have wanted to say that at work

in my civilian job a thousand times, but it just, it doesn't, it doesn't translate as well as it does to A-type personalities. But, but anyway, yeah, I appreciated that. I think that he is a guy who has made a lot of success for himself to the point where he doesn't need to sell anything, he's just there telling the story, this is very truthful. And the other part of it is he's around special operations guys all the time. I mean, all the guys that work at that black rifle,

all the people that he's associated with, when you put yourself in a position where you're always around people like that, it makes you better. And that's a big part of my, my desire would be to do that, to be around people that have a similar mindset that can operate off of, you know, just being around good, solid A type people that want to get things done. And yeah, have just like a nonconventional outlook on life.

And so he's doing that all the time, which is probably amazing. And so, yeah, I just appreciated. I appreciated the way he showed up. And yeah, for it was a four hour podcast, I was driving back from Eastern Montana on a hunt and so I had the time for it and it says a lot to me that like the least the least interesting part of the podcast was the hunting part and usually that's the part I like the most yeah which was still good but there was just so many points in this four and a

half hours is a long roguin so as as soon as I saw that timestamp, I was like, oh, shit, they're getting into some stuff for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And what they're what they were getting into was potent. You know, it's potent to the to the times. It's potent to the history of of going to war and like, dude, and what he said about like the warmongers and war and like, dude, and what he said about like, the warmongers and war hawks like fucking Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld and Bush, it's like, dude, they they fucked up a lot of people's lives.

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and you knew they weren't real, whatever, why'd you stay in? And it's like, well, you stay in because you've invested yourself so much in this process and you've met so many good dudes that like, it doesn't make any sense to just get out. And so you just trudge through the 20 years of service, trying to hopefully find some like sparkle of like honor in the way that you operated in the world. And it's just, it's really tough, man. And I would say that, that like a lot of the nuances that Hayford went into in this podcast, um, outlines a lot of the reasons that people are angry.

The, a lot of the reasons that veterans are angry, a lot of reasons that veterans don't feel understood because they've been through this meat grinder and they come out the other side and then you're suddenly faced with like this, yo, here's the civilian world. This is how we operate, which is nothing like, especially the special operations. It's, it's, it's so foreign. You know, what's interesting from a lot of what you've told me and, and you kind of do hear it when you listen to other Special Forces guys do podcasts. And that's really like the best way to kind of get more of a sense of, you know, just their experience and what's important to them.

And more and more of them have come out to talk about, you know, the PTSD side or the suicide side or the side that, you know, makes them feel confused and sad about coming back to regular life. And it all often comes back to the same point where, and you've talked about it before when we've discussed things like when you're reconnecting with those guys and maybe not even guys you knew directly when you were in the service, but they did a similar thing. So you're like all the same brotherhood. It's like, that seems really beneficial. And obviously what Evan's done is created a company that surrounds yourself with those people.

And I just wonder why of all the stuff that the VA does or whatever discharge, you know, like programs that they have in the military. Why do they not push to be like, hey, also, when you get back into civilian life, we're going to connect you with people close to you, that were also over there. So you can have your own, like stay in connection with this community will help in all of these transitions. That to me seems like they could have figured that out fairly quickly. Yeah, I think it's pretty nuanced though. I think it's like, uh, it's kind of hard to do.

It'd be like setting up a dating app or something. It's just really hard to like, yeah, how would you connect everyone? You know, like how would you, yeah, how would you go about that? Like I think a good Facebook group like special operations. Well, that's the other thing. A lot of guys from special operations aren't on Facebook, including myself. And so it's like. Part of the reason that guys are probably stay so angry is they continue to feed

into social media and the bullshit that comes with it. I have removed that part from my life, which has made my life a lot better. But I'll tell you, I work occasionally with a company called Clint East, I'm media group. And a couple of the guys that run that used to work or still do work for Black Rifle Company. So they're pretty associated with Evan as well.

And I'll tell you, dude dude when I go out there like They don't pay me a ton of money But like dude when I come back there's a noticeable difference in my attitude There's a noticeable difference in my mood like my wife loves when I go out to do these photo shoots because they do content for like I don't know, all these brands that make pouches and ammo and drones and you know, all the defense and military stuff, they do, they make content for them.

And I'll tell you, like the value isn't going out there and like getting to be a model for these shoots. The value is that like, all of a a sudden I went from my 9-5 job out to this like warehouse in the middle of nowhere and you walk in there and they've got a vault full of awesome guns and like gear and then all of a sudden you start meeting dudes that have like done what you've done or something similar. There's already an immediate trust, There's banter. Like the way that you and I banter is similar to like how team guys do. And like, dude, it's just such a comfortable

environment for me because I can go in and be myself. And dude, it's usually brutal in terms of like the physicality. Like I just turned 40. And so dude, I go in there and they're like, hey, put 60 pounds of gear on and we're gonna run around in the fucking dirt for 12 hours and I'm like, okay, let's do this. And it's not like relaxed work, but I'm around my community, that's the point. I'm around the people that understand me and I understand them and I'm around people that understand me and I understand them.

And I'm not like projecting myself onto them or vice versa. And it just, dude, it's like a team room. It feels like a big team room with a bunch of dudes and some chicks. And it's, it's a good time. You know, it's, it's a, it's, to me, it's a relaxed environment when you can sit there and drink coffee and tell stories and laugh about shit that you probably can't even tell most of the stories we tell in your civilian job just because of the content of the stories. But we get each other. We understand each other.

So I think you just, as a veteran, you got to go find those things. You have to go, you have to, you have to go discover those little gems of, you know, of social, you know, interaction with people that you really love and the people that you enjoy being around. But you know, it's like a little dose of medicine for me once a month or so to go out there and, and hang with those guys. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's hard when you didn't have any experience like that to kind of

relate and in a weird way, I imagine it is like when you're at, uh, the. Like employee Christmas party, but you don't like your job and you don't like any of your employees and you're just there because you got to be and you're looking around not enjoying any of the interactions. And it's almost the sense I get when I talk to you sometimes about the differences between spending time with your special forces people and other interactions that you have with like, you know, the people that didn't have that experience, right? Or working in places like that.

It just seems to be like a massive comfort that you have. The closest thing I can think of is like when I did stand up comedy. I mean, I liked hanging out with other comedians. Honestly, dude, you didn't even have to like them. They could be annoying. They could have taken your spots. They could have half stolen your jokes and done them better. But I still enjoy spending time with them

and that whole community over all other types of people. Even my closest guy friends that I grew up with because the shit talking, the comedy mindset, the just that constant grind, like we knew how to bomb, right? We knew how to like do terrible in a, in a five minute bit and just laugh at ourselves and get on with it. It's like, it's, it is powerful to find your community, no matter what it is. A hundred percent. And like, like here's here's like the common denominator that I hear is like the shared suffering and so there there is a selection process

there is an arduous physical uh you know assessment that you have to go through to get into any uh you know any part of the special operations. And so the way that I've experienced it is that you trust these guys implicitly until you can't. And they're not all great, like you said. And I will tell you that I had guys on my team that I didn't necessarily care for. But I tell this story all the time about

there was a medic that I had on my team that I just didn't get along with. We didn't share the same values personally but I'll tell you that I would I would never want another person working on me if I was injured in combat. And so like that guy at a Christmas party with me because I know he's doing his thing. I respect him as a soldier. He did, you know, he may be kind of a turd or not even a turd, but just kind of a piece of shit in his personal life. But like, dude, I can get past that if a guy can really like go and master his craft and figure out like, okay,

how can I be useful in this situation? And so like, yeah, it's the shared suffering. You let go of the things that like you don't necessarily agree with with people. But if you go into your nine to five, like it's really hard for me to connect with people that haven't been through the stuff that I've been through. And you don't want to come out and say that kind of stuff like, oh, you haven't, you know, you haven't done what I've done. And it's like, no, dude, that's not really the point. The point is that you, you've just marinated in this shit for so many years

that it just makes sense to be around people that have done the same shit. It just, it just does. Well, dude, it's the, I see it's not an unreasonable thing to even think when you're talking of like, suffering. Looking for the ultimate online casino experience? Step into the BetMGM Casino app, where every deal, spin and goal brings Las Vegas excitement into the palm of your hand.

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You mean you actually love your dad and he cares for you. That's nice Like there's just levels to so it probably is really difficult to be in a grocery store after coming back from a few tolls and somebody's complaining that it's I don't know the Starbucks is taking too long to make that fucking latte. It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make it. That's the problem is that it doesn't make any sense.

Like when you go to a country where like people are living in dirt huts. Like it feels like you go back in a time machine when you get to Afghanistan. I mean they're literally living as arduous as you could imagine. And like I really connected and felt a lot of emotion when they, I think when Hafer was talking about like these kids dude, like these kids that are like living on the on the streets on their own with no parents. And they're begging for food. And it's like, dude, that's so hard for me to even think about still of just being there and like trying to like, trying to like like trying to like wrap my head around what these kids might like how scared these kids might be and then you're talking like five six seven years old and the just the amount of intense poverty and suffering that you see on a daily basis and it really takes you back and there's no way to prepare for that. There's no way to prepare a guy to go over that like grew up in Ohio and just

like saw life as like, oh yeah, you know, there's some homeless people here and there, but everybody else is doing all right. And then you go to a place where like, like Bangladesh, like if someone dies in a car accident, they just throw them in the dude, like, and then they just keep in a car accident they just throw him in the ditch dude like and then they just keep like don't value life in these countries like we do here and so to be you know 24 years old and see something like that it's like oh wow that's interesting like no one can no one can prepare you for that. I can, yeah. I mean, just the idea of complaining about their,

just the idea that like little kids at that age, five and six, homeless and begging. And you know, to the people there, it's like somewhat normalized because, you know, if you saw one six-year-old in the US even in a very poor area they're quickly going to be scooped up by somebody and helped and it's like it's one thing for us to have like quite a few homeless people you know when it comes to like LA or maybe San Francisco or some of these bigger cities where it's kind of getting out of control. But it's not made up of like little kids. You know, there's like that protective energy that no one in our society would tolerate.

Yet there, it's not only that they don't have that, but then there's this next level that Evan was talking about of basically like rampant abuse there in a really what sounds like just unbelievable way, like to just even think that that happens anywhere. It's a little tough to have sympathy for. For people that that could, yeah, other humans like that. Like baked into their culture. It's it's historically baked in.

And like, I love the question that Rogan had, which is like, how long do you think it would take to like breed that out of there? You know, out of their value system or, you know, out of the way that they operate. And it's like, who knows, man? But yeah, I'll tell you that that's still something that no one wants to hear about. And that, yeah, I mean, that's, dude, I spent a lot of time over in Bangladesh and Afghanistan. And like, that's a totally normal thing.

It's not taboo to have, you know, I even hate talking about it. Like I hesitate to even like let this roll off my tongue, but to like have a basically a sex slave as a child. It's a normal thing. And that is insane to me. And now, and did they say, and Evan said this, they was like, you've got to just deal with the culture, right? Like, hey, if they're holding hands, try and join in there. But obviously you're seeing this stuff happen. You know it's happening.

You see a guy walking around with a young boy holding his hand. Like, you know what that is. And how do they kind of have you navigate that? I mean, obviously they don't have a job to do. You've got other things to do, but are they, do they tell you like, Hey, leave that alone. That's not your business. They don't. And like, dude, you hear stories.

So I was 19 years old sitting in a tower in Kirkuk, Iraq. And like, I think I'd been there in country for maybe a week. And I heard people talking about like man, love Thursdays and you know, all these weird little terms I didn't understand until I was looking through a thermal into a farmhouse. And like I see these guys just like, yeah, dude, like they're butt fucking each other in this barn. And like I'm watching them through these thermals going holy shit.

And then like a day later, you see a guy fucking a, you know, a goat or a sheep or whatever. And it's like, this is real. This is actually happening. Like, it's not comfortable. And it's just so extreme that you're just like, holy shit. And like, it's only talked to, it's only talked about like peer to peer. Like the leadership and saying like, hey, you know what, like this is part of their culture, like, you know, get over it, or like this is how they've been operating for years. You just have to assume that like, dude, this is, this is some crazy shit. And I loved, like, I loved the idea of like, they talked about like liberal people really wanting to protect these like cultures and you know, these people and it's like, yeah, it's just like trying to protect like a grizzly bear, like you ever seen a male grizzly bear like eat its cub alive because he got pissed off. It's like, yeah, like that happens. Grizzly bear running

around in New York City? No. Like, I don't know, man. Like you, you, you tell me, like you go, you go to Afghanistan, you go to Bangladesh and you see the intensity at which these people operate on such a crazy level of like lack of human value. And I don't know, dude, like I don't know when it started. I don't know the ins and outs of it. I don't know what happens to boys or to men and like how many or whatever, but it's a huge thing. And so you can't tell me that you don't have to worry about those things. Yeah. The big question that I, and you already, um, hit that point when Joe said, how long does it take to get it out of the culture?

And, and this is where it gets slippery. And I think why people don't want to talk about it or mention it is because And I think why people don't want to talk about it or mention it is because then it seems like you're not only talking down about those people, all of the people that live there, you're almost separating yourself from them being like, I'm better. They're not as good. Like what they do is disgusting. It's like this demon dehumanizing kind of element. But to give it some reality that is unusual behavior compared to what would be considered more, dare I say advanced civilizations, but countries that are more developed, like it's, it's not happening at that rampant level.

There is like, um, a more primitive element to that behavior. If you could say it that way. And then, and then go on. No. So like, I try to think of it this way. It's like, all right, if you go down to like some of these South American countries, like some of their like ceremony and ritual and like part of their history is to like, all right, if you go down like some of these South American countries, like some of their like ceremony and ritual and like part of their history is to like bury their dead, like under their house and like bring them out every now and then and hang out

with them. Like there's a video. Like they bring them out and they like put cigarettes in their mouth and they hang out with them and they're like, that's their connection to their debt. That's odd behavior for us, right? That's interesting. That's really like pretty morbid. But to me, that's acceptable. Like that's an ex- like if I really look into it, it's like, wow, that's acceptable. Like, if I had a way to connect with my dad and I grew up that way, like, yeah, dude, I'd probably put them underneath my house and bring him out and dress him every now and then it's it's it's weird

It it's weird in contrast to how we are raised in America and the things that we do. It's not clean It's whatever but on the other hand like Strip against hell. No one gets hurt stripping a child of their innocence and like treating people in a way that's so intensely, just wrong in the way that we've been assimilated to life. It's just confusing to wrap your head around. I don't think there's a right answer. I don't know what the solution is,

but for me, especially having children, like it's a huge deal to me and I can't get past it and things can exist at the same time. So yes, it's baked into their culture. Yes, it's ancestral trauma. Yes, it's this and that. But like, why does it continue to be okay? And like, are we the world police? Are we the ones to tell different cultures that they can't do this and they can't do that? I don't, I don't know. I don't think so. Like, are they going to assimilate eventually? Maybe I don't really know, but it is so counter to the way that we treat each other and the way that we most people at least.

And so I don't know. It's a culture aside I don't even need to like interview those poor kids to find out that it is horrific for them, for sure. Exactly. It is just, I mean, there's so many examples of how damaging that is. And having that be rampant through your culture. I mean, it's like Joe was saying, this is probably going to take, that would take multiple generations,

even if you could stamp it out today. Because they would know. That's what they do. It's like hundreds of years. I mean, whatever. because they would know. That's what they do. It's been hundreds of years. I mean, whatever. I don't know. And that's why it's so potent. And that's why I appreciated even having people understand that that is just the reality

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they're not talking about that on Fox News. You don't see that in documentaries, but like that is the reality. And I think you get somewhat like numb to it because it's just, that's what happens, man. And it's not cool. And this kind of highlights some more elements. It's like we've heard for a while that possibly psilocybin or different psychedelics combined with therapy can help people with PTSD or that have gone through these traumas. Well, that's one thing. Right? So that's a category of like, the data is

showing that it helps. And there's anecdotal data as well from these military personnel that are like, hey, this really helped me, I didn't have to go back on my antidepressants or whatever. I stopped drinking. But it's also, I think, another part of the story to highlight why they're in that position in the first place. Because, you know, regular civilians like myself just have this idea, Oh, well, they were in combat. They shot people.

There was a lot of bombs going off around them and that's why they have PTSD. And it's like, hold on, there's a lot more to this story. And I think that, I think, you know, not to freak everyone out, but the more that they get to know and understand, it's like, hey, we should do every fucking thing we can to help these individuals when they get back from that place. That's what I'm really hoping like RFK can kind of lean towards, start working with. I mean, say what you want about the new administration, but if he can get some

more legalization of these things to kind of help these guys, it just helps put the whole picture together of like, oh, this is why it's so important. I mean, hey, I loved the, you know, the vulnerability of Evan Hafer when he said, you know, I didn't understand how to connect with love. And like, that's a that's a really like, potent statement. And it's the truth. And I think he said that, like mushrooms helped him get there. Well, it was the same with me, like, going down to South America and spending 10 days doing psilocybin and ayahuasca. It wasn't like a party drug. I think that's one thing. Another thing they articulated is like, it's not a fucking, you know,

you're not like, Oh, let's, let's see the fireworks. No, it's like, Hey, let's take a step back and like, try to rewire our brains to go back to this spot in our life where we knew how to love, we knew how to connect with people. And it like gives you like, to me, psychedelics gave me the opportunity to like take a knee from like the insanity that goes on in my head. And then it was like, oh, by the way,

here's some tools to continue to take a knee and to like help heal a lot of the things that you've been through. And yeah, it's like, dude, I know, I know that these things work. There's a million guys that go down to not a million, but there's several hundred guys I know, they have gone down to do psychedelics and they've come back with value. Like no one, no one that I know of has come back or has not come back and said oh I lost my mind and I like jumped out of a window and you know a 60-story window because I was I lost my shit

No, dude, like it's intense and like you gotta see and feel and like kind of like grit your way through some old stuff But like at the end of the day, it's like taking off a snow suit of bullshit. And it was like, wow, that's a pretty cool feeling that I haven't felt in like since before I got in the military. But of course, why don't we advocate for that more and why is it illegal for us to go do something that clearly helps? Because we needed somebody very serious. It's in a position to make those decisions that also doesn't mind upsetting people.

And I can't think of a better person for that than RFK right now. The hope is in the future that it's people that aren't trying to upset everybody, that are regular politicians, that also advocate for their people. But no one's really been advocating for this. It's like slowly, but surely maps has got a little bit more, you know, now they can do a little bit of MDMA therapy, but it's like the process is real slow while a lot of suicides is still taking place and it seems like a process that needs to move quicker. Yeah, I mean it's moving a lot quicker now than it was when I went down there. I would say that like

I was part of like that first generation of folks that like heard Rogan talking about psychedelics and like when you take a special operations guy out of a team and like, we're not gonna go follow a bunch of fucking like hippie bead and feather wearing individuals. Like, I think like what the value for Rogan is that he gave some sort of permission and like the folks that he had interviewed

and like gave value to those experiences in a way that seemed like, oh wow, this can help me, this is helpful. And I think if you find a special operations guy, they're going to go towards the unconventional solution, which is like, yeah, I don't give a fuck. If this helps, I'll find my way down to Peru. I'll find my way down to Mexico. And that's what I would invite anybody to

do that's like either listening to this podcast or knows of a veteran. It's like, dude, go figure it out. Like I pay for, I pay out of pocket for all of my medical care. I don't go to the VA. I don't, I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed back at the VA in Bozeman because of the way that I have interacted with those folks. Because I'm outspoken. And I'll tell you, like the first time I went to the VA in Bozeman, they gave me this like survey to take. And it's like, hey, on a level of one to 10,

how much anxiety do you feel? And I think I put like a three and like towards the end of the session, the nurse came in and the doctor came in and they're like, we have some, we have some medication for you and I'm like, why? And they're like, well, you did mark a three of anxiety out of 10 on your little, you know, on your little, that seems low though. You say that no anxiety. out of 10 on your little, you know, on your little assessment. That seems low though. Yeah. You say that means like no anxiety?

Well, I told the lady, I said, do you realize this may be the first time I've told the truth on one of these surveys? Like when you're in the special operations, especially if you're operational, you're going to schools, you're deploying, you're doing all kinds of shit. You don't want anyone to think that you have any level of liability to you. So you just say zero How many drinks do you have per month zero? Do you feel depressed zero? Are you anxious zero? And so like here I am in a VA Going you know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna tell the truth this time and then

to be told that I'm going to be prescribed benzos because I was a three out of ten like that's the problem and I told the doctor that she was part of the problem so anyways my whole point is that I don't mean to laugh but it's good for you for saying that. I've got a pocket for all my medical care. I see a neuroendocrinologist who specializes in TBI, PTSD, all that kind of stuff. And so hormone hormone therapy, and this is the stuff that actually works. I would say if you're a veteran and you're trying to grind your way through the VA, like figure out where you can cut some of your finances and go find things that truly work. Go listen to people that are doing similar things

and then guess what, your health and your mental health and your ability to operate as a human is way more important than waiting on them to find a solution. Like, I can't wait for the VA. I can't wait for my primary care doctor in Bozeman to give me a solution so I can like be a better dad and a better husband and be healthy and show up. Like, that's not going to work. I have to go search for it and grind through it and figure out how to pay for it. And that's what I've done for the past five years is like, okay, I listened to Rogan, I listened to this guy, listen to that guy, listen to Sean Ryan. I'm like, wait a minute,

all these guys are going to go do these things. And to me, what needs to happen is like, and maybe it exists, and I just don't know about it, but some central hub of like trusted providers that people can go to, to get help, whether it's psychedelics, whether it's hormone therapy, whether it's talk therapy, something that can actually achieve a solution for a person. And like, the other part of it is, is who advocates for these things. So if a guy who's like, like Rogan doesn't just advocate for anyone, I think he like really sits and takes a step back and goes, okay, this guy's smart, he did this, he did that. There's a bunch of trial and error.

And I've heard 70 some veterans come in and say that this works. So I'm going to advocate for it. I'm going to like present it to the public and then people can go, oh, cool. All right, let's try that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what it's going to take, right? It's just more and more credible people that are legit, that people are listening to. And again, hopefully in government, like RFK, that are willing to say, Hey, I don't give a fuck about profits on this end. We got to help these people and we've got to at least do the research. You know, I mean, that's always just the key.

It's almost like they know it's going to be so effective. They're scared to do the research because then it makes antidepressants like completely pointless or the benzo level of pill care that they want to give out just wipes it off the map. And I don't know, I feel like we're close. I feel hopeful. You know, do I feel like we're gonna discover aliens first? Maybe it might be aliens before we get the psychedelic care for veterans, but they're both on the right path. It's good. We're not going backwards. The last thing I want to hit on before you get going, because

I know you need to go track down an animal and I appreciate your time, Aaron. But the last thing is talking about something, you know, Trump's brought up about the cartels, you know, obviously the big, the powerful, more powerful than ever, the savage. What would it look like if our special forces got unleashed on them? Would it be what Evan is saying? Is it an absolute, I mean, obviously very difficult. It's

gonna would take a long time. It wouldn't be this checkmate massacre. But I mean, what kind of skills and training, you know, versus the other side are we looking at? Is it, is it just flatlining them? I mean, so two things. So first of all, I do agree with Hafer that like they would they would not understand the level of violence that would be unleashed in the rapid amount of time that it would happen. It would just be like the technology, the human like everything is already there. It's set in place. You've got war fighters that have been doing this for 20, 30 years. And so yeah, there's like, I don't think there's ever been such an unprecedented release of

like, something of this magnitude where we would have the freedom to go in. And if it was, if it was granted was granted yeah I would be very curious to see what happened and I'd be very I'd be inclined to like see if I could maybe get back on a team because guess what that's a worthwhile mission like it's a huge problem right and the other part is That's crazy. Like 200,000 Americans or something? Thanks. where strategy meets top-tier gameplay. Hit the ice with Gretzky Goal Lucky Tap, inspired by the great one himself. Or play the dazzling MGM Grand Emerald Nights, a slot experience that captures the magic of MGM.

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fact that okay there's supply and demand and you take out the supplier, there's still a demand. And so like the honesty of like, we have to like figure out how to reform our scheduling process for drugs and legalities and all that stuff. People are going to still want cocaine. It's not just going to go away. However, I think that like right now, we have such a influx of very bad people that have gotten into our country very easily. And we have to build some sort of task force. We have to be very intentional. And, you know, we have to be very violent and aggressive

in the way that we approach this because they don't, they don't care. The cartel isn't just going to like, go, Oh, okay, like, I'll go back. They're not going to put their hands up there. They're going to fight. So to me, there has to be some example made. Like, I don't know. I would love to see it happen. I don't really know how much putting the military into civilian conflicts in country are going to be like successful but what I would tell you is that like if you are going to like release tier one units on a very very systemic issue that needs solved like yeah it's gonna be interesting and I think it's uh I think it'll be I think it'd be helpful I really do it sounds wild and it sounds like a movie it sounds like a movie I'd want to watch for sure I feel like we're living in a movie already.

Like, the laugh, especially like the last couple years, felt like a movie to me. And, yeah, like I think Rogan even said, you know, who wrote this? Like, this is good writing. You can't make this shit up. That's a good point, man. Well, look, if it is a movie, then, um, let's, let's try and be the heroes of

that movie, let's not be the bad guys. How about that? Right. And Aaron, I want to thank you for joining me today. This really helped. You know, I didn't even want to review this one just with my regular co-host because we needed, we needed some more experience with this just to kind of... It would have just been bullshit if I was just like giving my opinion of what I just heard.

We needed some expertise and some experience. So I'm glad you could join me today. I appreciate your time and everyone out there, thanks for listening. Hope this helps. If you haven't heard the Evan Heffa one, make sure you listen to it. Hafer. Sorry. It's a long, it's a long part, but it's worth it. And yeah, like Aaron was saying, he articulates things really well. He sounds like a super cool dude. But yeah, thanks a lot, Aaron. And talk to you guys next week. You bet.