Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - 432 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Ky Dickens

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

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This might either be the worst podcast or the best one of all time. Two, one, go. Enjoy the show. Did you have a preconceived notion of telepathy or spiritual gifts or anything before this? No, I mean, I think like a lot of people, the idea of mediums and psychics, it felt like people that are often trying to just make money off of people in really vulnerable situations. And I've always believed certainly there's gotta be people who have certain gifts like that,

but that the vast majority couldn't be trusted or I didn't think telepathy could be real. That seems impossible. It just seems impossible. Even things like plant communication felt impossible. Or I mean, I mean, none of that was something that was was like my worldview. You know, I was working on, you know, solving problems around paid family medical leave and making health insurance more affordable and accessible. Like it was not my cup of tea. There we go. That's Rogan talking to Kai Dickinson about telepathy and getting into it. Today's guest with me is Ian. Ian is a therapist actually and I haven't talked to you about your experience working with autistic people,

but I felt like this was a good show to have kind of, you know, psychologists, the therapists, something like that on just to kind of chat through this. Yeah, well, I mean, it's definitely a pretty interesting conversation. I think the first thing that sort of goes without saying, it's definitely a pretty interesting conversation. I think the first thing that sort of goes without saying, it's like with this episode, we're doing a review of what for a Joe Rogan episode felt like a review of another podcast,

because that's really what it was. They're saying, they're talking about the telepathy tapes, which is Kai's podcast. So we're kind of already two steps removed, but plenty of interesting stuff even on the wings of that. Yeah, and just hearing it, it's one of those things where it's like, well, I can't do this research,

so I can't verify any of it. But it just seems like, let's say it's not happening, and these people don't have any telepathy at all, it's impossible. What a wild kind of continued lie it would need to be for all these people to be involved and teachers reporting on it. And I mean, you could look online, you can Google it. And it's like, parents say this. Like there's lots of stories. And that's what she brings up. She's like, how would a bunch of nonverbal autistic people be conspiring to do this to begin with? Like, what would that even mean? Right?

Yeah. You know, it's sort of like the biggest problem with conspiracy theories is how hard it is for people to actually keep a secret and plan something well. And how much harder when you can't talk. Right? Yeah. But yeah, very interesting. I think, I don't know about you, one of the things I noticed the most is how much I've been wired to be a skeptic. Oh yeah.

As soon as I heard, like read the bio before I even looked at it and I know nothing about any of these topics. I was like, this sounds like bullshit. Yeah, telepathy. Okay, this will be interesting. Can't wait to hear how nuts this lady sounds. And by the end of it, I'm like, I think I believe in telepathy. Right. Yeah. That was convincing enough. Yeah. And again, we didn't even hear the content, really.

I mean, by the end, you know, they gave a couple examples. I listened to the first, just the first episode of hers, just because I kind of had to see what was going on. Of the telepathy tapes. Of the telepathy tapes. Yeah. And you know, she mentions that it's like, going on. Of the telepathy tapes? Of the telepathy tapes. Yeah. And you know, she mentions that it's like, um, you know, she, she gives an example. They bring up, uh, it's actually Hispanic family. So they had like a translator for a lot of it, which was kind of interesting. Um, but you know, they just did everything they possibly could to prove it right or wrong.

And I think that's what a big, you know, I mean, that's kind of what you have to do with all this. Yeah. Like you have to, you have to want to know if it's real. And I think that, I think I believe Kai that she, that's where she's coming from. She's like, what is this? I'm fascinated.

Is it true or not? Well, I think what it takes is one of those people that is the, like, super skeptics. Yeah. true or not? Well, I think what it takes is one of those people that is the super skeptics. Remember, they would travel the country, sometimes go to churches, and expose the televangelists for using headphones. And these aren't radio waves, so it's not like a message from God. Somebody's just like, Sally and seat 45 just lost their

husband. Right. And then he's like, I'm getting a message. Wow. And this guy who's like super sceptic, he has a check that he carries around with him. I think it's a million dollars now. And if anyone can prove like psychic ability, he will give you that money. So I'm like, we'll bring him in for this. Yeah. Like he can design the experiment to where he's satisfied.

Yeah, I haven't heard of this guy. And yeah, I mean, there's a few people that are trying to expose these fraudsters and all of them are exposed. Yeah. You know, every one of them is just trying is they just have different tricks well it's like magicians like at this point everybody knows you go to a magic show it's a trick yeah it's not real they did not saw that woman in half right but I think I think for a while maybe people thought magicians were the real deal they were the psychics they were the telepathy.

For sure they did. And I don't know, the telepathy. But this is why I'm in that position, to where of all the wacky things that sometimes I like to delve into and believe, this one I could just dismiss immediately, even without hearing it. I'm like, oh dude we we would know if people had this power. Stakes are up, right? Like if this is the real deal. All right, like, yeah, I'm I want to tune in. I want to know what like keep me posted. Right. I'm going to follow this. It makes me want to, you know, do some of my own studies.

Yeah. You know, at least talk to some parents that have had this happen and be like, all right, talk me through this. Yeah., I mean, you know Kai was discussing how when she was first introduced to this she'd been hearing these stories some teachers and parents Discussed it seems like teachers are connecting well with the non speakers. Yeah Well, that was actually interesting. The first person she studied was actually a therapist. Or maybe the first person they talk about on the tapes. A therapist working with, I guess, a nonverbal or a speller, which I don't know if you kind of got what that was.

I think it's people who can't speak, but they can point to letters. And that was a little hard to follow because they're like, okay, what is a speller and she's like well it's not just they're spelling the words out they've got this interpreter. It was a little confusing yeah it doesn't mean that they're in a spelling bee yeah they just have someone that helps them yeah physically spell and I think that is sort of like I don't know if you've seen these like conspiracies about Steven

Hawking lately where people are like, oh maybe he was, he wasn't even there and it was just like this thing, you know, like he was like a front man almost, you know, because you watch initially before he got the speaking spell, he'd sit there and he kind of, and somebody would say, oh he's saying, you know, time travel would be possible if a wormhole were divided in three, you know, or some crazy stuff. And you're like, really, you got that out of that? Like where, how do we know? That's right, he did have Cambridge appointed

translator. Physicists, basically. Translators. Right. Oh really? Yeah, they were like PhDs themselves. So they understood what he could be talking about right and yeah, they would kind of interpret Yeah, some of the things that he's saying that's an interesting point. So honestly like It's like I want to say, you know that whole idea of like I want to believe every time somebody gives me a new conspiracy Theory or something. I'm like, all right, like prove it. Yeah, this is a cool one. Yeah, I want to know. I feel like I kind of get jaded.

I'm like disappointed now, because I'm ready for that evidence to be like, yeah, no, aliens shot JFK or whatever it is. You know, like, I'm so ready to believe the most wild stuff, and I'm disappointed that nobody can ever back it up. And that's where it comes down. It's like, how do you prove these things? And this is why this one's interesting because I feel like it's very provable. Even with the issue that she said she was coming up against and the pushback

that she gets when they're trying to make these stories valid is the speller helper. So it's like there's some physical, but at the same time, I'm like, if you're reading someone's mind that's in a different room and the helper hasn't even seen that person, so there's a definite divide, then. You're a podcast listener,

and this is a podcast ad heard only in Canada. Reach great Canadian listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts, offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience with Libsyn ads. Email Bob at Libsyn.com to learn more. That's B-O-B at L-I-B-S-Y-N.com. Even if the speller was guiding something, then it would just mean they have telepathy. Someone has it. Right. One of the two people have it. Right. Oh yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah. If I'm thinking, you know, blue square and the spellers

like well she said something about blue and square even if you think spelling is like a scam it's like okay well how'd she get it? Exactly that's my point. Okay no they don't have it but spellers do. Right. Somebody does and you know all you have to do is keep switching out the speller to find out if it's the other person. I mean, it's testable. Yeah. Then though, where do you go from that? Like, let's say, for sure, we've scientifically proven it with a bunch of candidates that come in, that, you know, seem to be non-speaking autistic kids.

Then it's like, what is it about that that allows this to happen? And can they do brain scans and see if there's some sort of projection thing or like, how are they tuning into it? The how. Is this like ether knowledge? Is that real? Like it just can send you down a whole scientific path of, this must be one of the most interesting scientific things It just can send you down a whole scientific path of,

this must be one of the most interesting scientific things to explore right now. Yeah, it's gotta be interesting. And I mean, I think we've all got that, right? She talks about the phone example. You're thinking of a friend you haven't talked to in two years and they call you up or whatever it is. Or even you're just thinking about your buddy like, oh, what are we gonna, oh, I need to call them back and you get a whatever it is. Or even you're just thinking about your buddy like, oh, what are we going to, oh, I need to call them back

and you get a text right away. I think we all have some kind of experience like that. I think so, but it's so often dismissed. It's like when people are like, oh, I went to this party and someone had the same birthday as me. And there was only like eight people there. Well, then some mathematician breaks it down. And it's like halves and averages and this and that.

And it's like, there's a one in five chance that would have happened. All these coincidences just get kind of brushed off. How big of a deal are they really? Right. And they will lay out things like, oh, well, you were thinking about this person. And then they called you.

And you hadn't talked to them for a while. But you were also thinking of 12 other people that you didn't pay attention to. So you just confirmation bias. There's a bit of that. However, you know, not everything should be, you know, throw the baby out with the bath water stuff. It's like, if a lot of it is that coincidence, fair enough. Right. But maybe there's something else. And when you have stuff like this pop up, it makes you think, they did say, what was it, the meeting place of the mind, it's called the hill.

Very cool, very cool idea. And one person could get on the hill that wasn't autistic, but had some other skill. I can't remember. They did some deep dive into thought and consciousness. Into their mind, that's right. So when they showed up, it wasn't in the same capacity. It wasn't as clear. It was more kind of mumbled and blurry and difficult for them to navigate. But it does imply that maybe there is a learnt skill potential for anybody. And the only way you can get that is to understand what the heck is happening.

Yeah, and like what does that even mean? She really went for it. She's like, I think this proves that consciousness is what comes first and matter comes second. It's like, hey, sure, that's a good theory. Right. I think she went, you know, she went pretty big on that, right? Like, there, you know,

this person can tell what number I'm thinking, therefore matter isn't real, mind comes first or something. It's like, well, maybe, that's a big jump. Yeah. That's a big theory. It's a big theory. That's a big theory. It's a big theory. But the hill was wild. She said there was some gal,

some kid who was going to this hill, told her family, hey, I'm going to this hill and I talked to people. Here's all the people I know. And they were people that the family had never met, this kid had never met, and they verified all these people that the family had never met this kid had never met and they verified all these names that's wild that I'm like all right now we're getting someone now again somewhere yeah you know if let's

explore the hill exactly yeah man I mean running up that hill well just how jealous oh yeah you of not being able to do that when I hear'm like, wait, there's a place I can never go ever. Yeah. No matter what. Yeah. Get all the money in the world. I am never allowed to go to the Hill. Oh, she said you just got to meditate. Get meditate. I'm never going to control my mind well enough to get out.

That's the problem might be you. Sadly. Sorry. But it's it's amazing. And again, that could be testable, right? Yeah. If you've got similar people or the same types of people that are, you know, visiting the Hill, you arrange for a meetup, psychic meetup. Yeah. And then one has a message to pass to the other. It can be very simple. Yeah. And it sounds like,

statistically it would be impossible for them to keep guessing the right things. Right. And it sounds like they've tried to do that and they have, you know, that first telepathy tape. She takes this family and they've got this daughter again who's I guess telepathic or something and they, you know, they have a three digit random number generator so nice you know one to 999 or something like that they do 20 tests and she gets every one right 20 out of 20 that would be what trillions basquillions to one pretty unlikely yeah, she should probably go play roulette or something.

We're gonna be in trouble when we start seeing people with groups of non-speaking autistics and they're all in casinos in Vegas. Like, alright, that's exploitation. This is like Rain Man on steroids. Uh huh. Yeah. Yeah, when Tom Cruise takes his brother to the casino, right? To count cards. Yeah. He's like, all right What can we do with this? Similar. Of course, that's the first thing you'd think of. Yeah, but it's interesting So that first episode she like She's so thorough. She brings a friend on who's a skeptic who's a scientist and she's like, all right, you're my resident skeptic

Put the blindfold on see if the blindfold works. Check the camera angles. Is there a reflection in the mirror? Is the TV reflecting something? Make sure we didn't miss anything. They knock out 20 out of 20, and she's like, all right, this is it, we've got evidence. And she has that all online.

You can go watch the five different camera angles. You can watch the setup. You can watch all the tests. Yeah, I mean, that's what she says. She's like, yeah, if you wanna look at any of this, go for it, it's yours. So she thinks she's got this bulletproof evidence, right? Something's going on, and she brings it

to a few different scientists or psychologists or whatever, and they're like, nah, and they throw it out. Nobody wants to look at it. Why? But this is what got me when I heard it like if anyone came to you with this Yeah, and now you're in a meeting at work and all the rest of the therapists are on there. Yeah Would would everyone not be really interested or would they just be like you're you're lunatic dude really interested? Or would they just be like, you're, you're a lunatic, dude.

It seems like a safe enough space for you to bring up something like that. And for people to show some interest. Well, if I told you, or if you told me this, like, Hey man, I know this is crazy, but I've been, you know, my friends has a, my friend has a kid and he can read my mind. I'd be like, what? No. What do you mean? Like, well, we tried it. I'm like, oh, like he could tell you were angry or something. Like, oh, he could read your mind. You're like, no, we had a random number generator.

I was in another room and I guessed the number. He got it right 20 times in a row. I would tell everybody if that happened to me. I'd be blown away. I wonder if then you become like those people in the 80s that were like, was abducted by aliens and they're like everyone that's John right John's always telling wild stories John Knows where the alien lives and he can be like yeah come over. I'll introduce you Yeah, the alien abducts me every Tuesday it would there would be a lot of validity in that yeah exactly sure

It's not a one-off thing so So if, yeah, if the tests like that are legit. Yeah. Well, and this is why shows like Rogan are fantastic. One, he's brave enough to have people like that on. Yeah. He talks for three hours, so it's not a five-minute segment on CNN that probably just gets, you know, they just ridicule her or just make it look silly. Bring some other expert on who's like, nah, this is why it doesn't work. Right. But now there's so much exposure. We're talking millions and millions of people will watch this episode.

Yeah. I mean, you know, and twice as much with your listeners. Oh, right. With tens of thousands. Yeah. Well, listen, even to us discuss it Yeah, it's like there are people out there that are gonna start building momentum for this lady people want to know about this This is really interesting. I mean I was pumped to have this conversation with you. Yeah, it's like same

I and again drag you in on a Sunday. Thank you. Yeah, it was kicking and screaming But glad it happened would I have even listened to it? I don't know, you know, it's like, you hear these things, oh, somebody proving telepathy is real. You're like, yeah, yeah. And the aliens are real too, and maybe they are, you know, but it's like, I think we're changing minds. I think inevitably you hear things like this enough,

and you can only be a skeptic for so long. Right? They use the example of like the new world, you know? Some guys like, hey, I think there's a whole other continent, you know? There's a whole other half of the world we've never found. People are like, eh, all right, yeah, cool, man. Like, sure. Maybe. Maybe. And turns out there was you know yeah Before we discovered the Americas We didn't know that like there's twice as much earth sure right yeah It took some lunatic who thought he ended up in India by the way right right like he he wasn't even right about what he thought Mm-hmm

and And I think that's an interesting question. It's like you've got to follow your hunch Right, like he he wasn't even right about what he thought. Mm-hmm and And I think that's an interesting question. It's like you've got to follow your hunch. Yeah, and and You know, you don't know what you're proving But I think eventually it's like follow that hunch and like keep digging if you're maybe you'll turn something up, right? You may not even understand what it is. And there is a scientific process, right? Right. That often is quite difficult to apply to certain things you're testing for. But this one seems like it would line up, match, and work for that process. And once it's explained, I mean, I just ran the numbers on that guessing 20 things and it's a

hundred to the power of 20 odds. The word is duodecillian. It's so many billions that you don't even know what it means. Take a while to write it down. Yeah, nice. You know? Yeah. It's basically those sorts of numbers are like more atoms than in the universe chance So is that a hundred followed by 20 zeros? Is that what that I think so? Yeah, it's a lot of zeros Billion is what? Nine nine zero. Yeah, it's a lot more. Yeah, so When you're working with those kind of odds it basically is a hundred percent chance that that person has telepathy. Right. Yeah. Or there's some magic tricks going on.

Or it's the most amazing guess. Yeah. Or series of guesses. Or a really clever gag. Right. Yeah. But at a certain point, right, like the gag, that's the thing about magicians, right? One guy cuts somebody in half, give it enough time somebody else figures out how they did the trick.

Mm-hmm. Like, you can't keep a trick going on forever. No. And that's the whole point of, like, science and doing all these tests. At a certain point, you're like, alright. Like, we would have figured out the trick by now. Well, it's- it's all about repeatable studies. Yeah.

That's what makes something valid. Yeah. You could find one outcome one time, no matter how amazing it is and how well the study was put together. It doesn't mean anything until they've repeated it three or four times. OK. It's just how it goes. So they just have to keep doing this one.

So let's say this is real. Okay. Then what? That's the question. So there's there's a few things I've been thinking about. Then what? Like, where do we go from here? But also, thinking back, the nonverbal or non-speaking autistic people have existed in the past. How many of these hills or conversations have carried on? What knowledge is being passed around in that area? What can be known?

I mean, what made me think about it is Kai mentioned one individual could read hieroglyphics, yet they definitely had never seen any. And no one that knew them could decipher any of those things. Yeah, there's this thing, cuneiform B, I think it is, something B, and it's this ancient script that nobody's been able to translate. I know Joe Rogan brought up that like manuscript, and that's cool, but that's definitely more in the realm of just like oddity,

unless it's some secret in the realm of just like oddity, unless you know, it's some secret to the universe or something. But cuneiform B, it's like, it's an example in linguistics where nobody's ever figured it out. Is it like for sure ancient text? They know it's on like old tablets. Yeah, this is not like a one-off thing. It's something they find, I think regularly, and they're just like, eh, we don't really know what to do with it. And we can't decipher any of it? Yeah, well, I mean, hieroglyphics,

we couldn't decipher until like late 1800s when somebody found the Rosetta Stone. That's a good point. Oh, dang. Yeah. Here we go. And we were just hitting our head against a wall before that. Yeah, it would be amazing to sit one of these kids down

and say, hey, can you make any sense of this? The only problem with the outcome of that is it would be hard to verify. Yeah. Right? I mean, not necessarily. That's like, you know, linguistics in a nutshell. It's like cracking a code. Like, you know you cracked the code, like in World War II, because you can translate a bunch of things that make sense. Right. You know, you're like, oh, they just gave us coordinates to where the sub is, and it's 100 miles different a day later. That's a good point.

So if you then ask them, all right, so we're going to, based on what you told us, we're going to write another type of sentence based on that and with these patterns. And then we'll have you read that one. Yeah, or just like translate this one for us great And now we go translate 30 things and they're like, oh they're saying like we're how much copper they had, you know Yeah warehouse and it all just starts making sense. Yeah. Yeah, imagine if it imagine if it's just stories about Nonverbal autistic kids and how they can read minds. And it's like, what? Oh man.

We were waiting for this. Yeah. That'd be some inception kind of stuff. I've never even heard of that language. That's interesting. I don't think it's like, it's not like the hieroglyphics where we've got these crazy tombs with all this mysterious writing.

It's like some clay tablets. But still, it's cool stuff. I would like to know about it. Yeah, exactly. And that is interesting that you say, you know, it's known in linguistics as like, you know, probably lots and lots of people have tried to decide for this. They probably have AI on it. They probably already figured it out and I'm just don't know anything anymore. Yeah, we'll look into it.

Yeah, typed it into chat GPT. But yeah, other than kind of going back and thinking about through history, who noticed this, who has utilized this for different things. I mean, it wouldn't be weird now to hear a story of, you know, Alexander the Great having

some sort of mystic person like Sears and that was able to kind of help him figure out where the armies are, you know, and those sorts of stories are easy to just dismiss be like, oh, they were just into their right weird witchcraft religious stuff back then. But then all of a sudden you're like, hold on. Yeah, maybe people did know something and that leads into where do we go from here? Totally, which is really exploring this land. maybe people did know something. And that leads into where do we go from here, which is really exploring this land. Yeah.

And even just like you and I, or anybody else who hears this podcast, listens to her telepathy tapes, it's like, what do you make of it? People can read minds. People can go to someplace in their mind and talk to other people. And they all have the same story. And that was an interesting part. She's like, hey, this is nothing new. Like thinking that you can get messages in a dream,

this is nothing new. Right, that's true. This is something that most cultures, most individuals have some experience in or belief in, right? So if anything, the funny, the oddity here is the fact that our mainstream thought, our science writes it all off. You know, it'd be like if, you know, mainstream science is like, well, emotions, those aren't really real, right? Like you can't prove them. I know everybody says they feel them, but like, yeah, I mean, show me one in a lab. Like put your finger on it, put it in a box, put it in a test tube.

You can't. Give me a 10 milliliters of anger. Yeah, that's right. Although that might be a little easier, I guess. Hormones are a thing, so. A bunch of adrenaline. Yeah. You know, it's a good point.

And, you know, it's a good point. And, you know, back to the whole kind of, it's a different place. I mean, in a way, we kind of do that with dreams, right? Right. When we have a dream, we're in a different place. And you know, obviously, it's all internal, right? It's just happening in your mind. But maybe there's something that, I mean,'s just happening in your mind. But maybe there's something that,

I mean, if people can read your mind, maybe they can interact with the dream portion of you too. And there could be a whole opening there that's similar to the phenomena of like lucid dreaming, for example. And if you're out there and you're listening to this and you've never lucid dreamed, hopefully one day that happens to you in your life.

Often it's just random. You can kind of train for it. They have some books that are pretty useful and it is one of the strangest experiences you can ever have. Fully waking up, but being in your dream and seeing the detail and the complexities, oftentimes the colors are like even more astounding than real life and then you're like oh we can just make this in our minds. It really makes you think when you wake up oh I'm definitely making all of what I see just through the

interpretation. It's like my brain is everything's reflecting. I see the people, it's bouncing off the walls, all these things. That is being then reconstructed in my mind. And we often just don't think of it that way. It's just like, oh I'm just looking around. Well they talk about that. Like you know we see like 1% of the electromagnetic spectrum. Like our eyes see 1% of what's truly visible in like a scientific sense or something like that, you know? Shrimp see like 100 times more than we do some random shrimp.

Can see way more than we do whatever that, heck that purpose is for. Like, I don't know what a shrimp needs to see, but something. Can't they see like infrared or something, which is like really unusual or maybe that's goldfish. Yeah, I don't know what a shrimp needs to see but something can't they see like infrared or something? Which is like really unusual or maybe that's goldfish. Yeah, I don't know I mean snakes see they have like a little nose almost and they can see infrared They have like a second set of eyes

Kind of uh-huh quote-unquote eyes and they can like see a mouse in the dark. They can feel the heat Right see the heat basically and don't they say sharks can pick up like a mouse in the dark. They can feel the heat. Right. They can see the heat, basically. And don't they say sharks can pick up like electric signals in the ocean? Probably. They have some sort of sense for that. I mean, it is a good point, right? It's like, even right now in this room, we have Wi-Fi.

Yeah. Technically, with that, you can have all the information that has ever been stored anywhere is there. Right. Now, I guess this is not a great example, because the computer has to ask for it. can have all the information that has ever been stored anywhere is there. Right. Now I guess this is not a great example because the computer has to ask for it. Yeah. Maybe radio waves are better.

Yeah. They're all in this room for all of the stations that are close to where we are. We can't hear any of them. Right. But if we have... Well the phone can see the Wi-Fi and we can't. That's a good point. Yeah.

Yeah. Anyways. Yeah. Anyways, yeah. What are we missing? Who knows? Well, I just think that there are obviously a lot to still discover that we don't know about. Yeah. And on top of that, it's like, you know, what are these places like? Oh man, don't you want to go? I want to know what's going on on the hill. on top of that, it's like, you know, what are these places like? Oh man, don't you want to go? I want to, I want to know what's going on on the hill. Yeah. I wish there was more of a description of what they see as well. She kind of got into that, like describing, you know,

how the image appears and- Well, it sounds like they're making like a video documentary and she has some nonverbal people on the team and they're working on the art. That's great. They're gonna like draw the hill. Yeah, what a good idea. Cause they're the only ones that could do it.

Yeah, they've been there. Make it make sense for us. It's like Marco Polo, like tell us about what you saw. We are. What did you think about the teacher that noticed that one of her students could basically communicate with her at any point. She could be at home and she had to kind of create a boundary and say, hey, you can't keep jumping into my mind. I'm an adult. I'm doing adult things. You're a child. It's not appropriate.

Like what a strange boundary ethical dilemma that is. I think this is the most interesting part of this is like, all right, like what have you, when have you seen this, right? Like I was thinking about this, Joe Rogan was talking about aliens and like on this episode and how like you read these, you watch these people who are like, yeah, I work at the secret facility, I'm a whistleblower, you know, they've got aliens down there and they've got all this and they're doing all this stuff. And he's like, you don't believe it. Like it doesn't sound true,

but like he gives this example of somebody, his friends that got attacked by a brown bear in Alaska. And he's like, when somebody tells you that story it just reads as true. Right. Like you can't make that up the way this guy is telling this story you can't make it up. Well that was Steve Rinella and his crew from Meat Eater and then other hunters. Yeah. So like very serious legit people. Right. That aren't likely to be when a bunch of them decide to fabricate a story like that it's pretty lame if it isn't true. Right. It's like come on like yeah you of all people don't need to

make this up you've got enough cool stories on this topic. And then yeah the point there is what what adds to the credibility is like, you know, none of these people are known for exaggerating really any other types of stories. So with like aliens, I don't know if you've ever had, if you have a friend or have anyone you know personally that has told you an experience of like, dude, I saw this thing. I don't know what it is.

I could be wrong, but this is what I saw. And you're like, damn. Like it hits different. For a while, it was a question I asked almost everybody. In my lifetime, I've had a point where I was just like, with people that I just get to know or friends, I'm like, hey, just curious. You ever had this? I'm always fascinated.

And a lot of people, it's mostly just something in the sky they couldn't explain. Is that a thing, like podcasters and aliens? Like you're all just interested in aliens? Well, I certainly am. And I'm a podcaster. Two out of two, either. It's like right away.

It seems like a lot of podcasters are interested in that. Yeah But you know, I guess we're a weird bunch. Yeah. Well, you know, I mean we've all got something I think that's where this conversation to me gets more interesting. It's like you ask anybody just like Just like the aliens, I guess maybe not as much but you ask anybody About what they're talking about on the telepathy tapes. Like what have you experienced?

And I guess you personally, Adam, like have you ever had something like this happen where you're like, eh, I can't really explain it any other way. Like dreams, you mentioned dreams. Have you ever had like a dream where you're like dang I dreamt that my car was gonna break down and this random dude was gonna like you know whatever find a mouse in my ignition switch or

something and then whoa the next day there was a mouse in my ignition or anything like that. Sadly I haven't had that type of coincidence line up. Sure. However, and a lot of people experience this, I've had some very bizarre deja vu moments. Yeah. And they feel very much when they're happening is like, well, one, they feel very real.

Yeah. And I know they get dismissed quickly is just like your brain. Right. Spasming for a second or whatever they say about it. But there are experiences where I'm like, oh, I've not only done this before, this is actually an old memory. So I've known about doing this thing before for a long time. Yeah. And there's something odd there that yeah, I think that's the most interesting thing about what she's doing

It's not that unfamiliar You know like if you read an article that said somebody just proves Scientifically undeniably that you can tell when somebody's a close friend is about to call you. You'd be like, no shit, that makes sense. Right. I don't know how they proved it. That's wild that that's true, but it's not like someone is saying, I don't know, we live on a different planet, we never knew it.

Right. You're like... It's not that far-fetched. Yeah. And I would, I don't need a ton of evidence to be like, oh, there's something here. I mean, there are just unexplained things that we just know. Yeah, that's how it is. It's like the little bit of magic. I mean, it's the placebo effect with medicine. 50% of the efficacy of any medication that works is the placebo effect. It's just that you knew you took it and then somehow you're actually feeling better.

Yeah. It's very strange. Right. And you know, It's amazing that we don't study how to use that. Well, we kind of do because we make medicine that way. So there's this and it's it's its own level of contradictory because you've got on the one hand, all the rigors that go into testing and medicine and the science behind it. And it's very scientific. You know, they want to make it provable and they have to represent it. And then there's pushback. Yet there's this whole other half of the chemistry. And they're like, well, this bit, we just name it this, but it's basically magic. And we don't know.

And that's your background as biochem, right? Yeah. I didn't deal with medicines much. I just know what the placebo is and kind of how it relates to medicine. But in a similar way, it's like, there's a space for this telepathy. Totally.

It's like, all right, we can't explain it. It's kind of like magic. And we'll just put it in the box next to all the rest of this. Did you ever see? The men who stare at goats. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's a it's like the CIA thing Yeah, and it was sort of like a sort of documentary Like at the beginning of the movie was like a mockumentary Yeah, the beginning of the movie they say some of the events in this are true, which is a funny way to start something, right?

Yeah, they don't tell you what no, but um, there's some truth in this the military forever has been like they're sort of the least skeptical When it comes to studying things they're like, alright, is this bullshit? Who knows? Let's let's find out what are they what do they call it, astro projecting? Yeah. They've studied this for a long time. Yeah. Because they're like, hey, if it works, we don't really care why or how. Or if it's weird. Super valuable. If we can use it, we will.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, hopefully they don't get it first. Makes you think, like, what else are they studying? If you could see all the absurd things they'd studied, I bet you'd just bust over laughing. Oh, no doubt. They tried everything. You give them a big enough budget, they're going to try. I mean, they were like the first ones who were interested in psychedelics. They're like, eh. That's true.

Maybe we could gas all of Germany with LSD. Well, there's that whole video of those British soldiers on LSD. It's like black and white. It's real old. Right. And they're just walking around the woods and they're just trying to see if they follow orders. They're just all laughing. Yeah. Like none of them are doing anything useful. They're like all right maybe this doesn't work. Yeah. You know. Well maybe it does. Maybe you just pour it in your enemy's water supply. Right. And watch him all giggle. Yeah, they probably thought they'd turn into super soldiers

could read minds or something. Yeah. They just look at a bug or something. Would you if this is like research fully, they go into a deep, they're like, you know, they create a process for like, this is kind of what we think happens and how they get their minds there. And then they come up with some sort of training for it, even if it's like quite complicated and long. Wouldn't you want to do that?

I would want to train to be able to be even a tiny bit telepathic. Yeah. How useful could that be? Yeah. Well, I think it's interesting because, right, I'm a therapist and so much of what you have to do in a therapy room is lean into the intuitive side of being a human, right? Like if you're too rational, like who wants to talk to someone about like the nitty gritty inner part of life if you're just talking to somebody who's in their head,

like just analyzing you. I don't want to do that. If I'm trying to work out something real and big, I want somebody who's like deep in it, in life, like in their own experience, in my who's like deep in it, in life, like in their own experience, in my experience, like all in, right? Yeah. And I think if we're all in our head, if we're like thinking in the theory, like that doesn't do much for me personally. When I'm interacting with someone like that, I don't get a lot out

of it. Sometimes it seems like the more detail somebody goes into describing something, let's say a scary event that happened in your lifetime. The more detail you go into while you're sat in front of me explaining it, the more you concentrate on the details to get as much information to me. It's almost like the further away you get from the emotion. It's not all the actual thing It's like I was very scared during this well I need to know how scared but also what happened right but then ultimately the details are not as important is like What how big is this fear and how much of it are you carrying all the time, right? That's the message that's hard to get. I don't need to understand, I need to feel you.

Right. More or less. It seems more helpful if you're trying to figure out how to help that person. Now, as an investigator or a police officer or a detective, you need those. You know, you're not looking to kind of cure something with the individual. You need the story. So there's just different ways of doing it. Yeah, as a police officer on an investigation,

you don't, it might not even be helpful to know how someone felt. Sure. Right, you gotta know where you can go with the facts. Right. Okay, did they turn left or did they turn right? Yeah, if they say that they were massively afraid and in shock. You're like, I believe you. But it also might make their story less credible because people

can't remember things as well under those conditions. They might just be too stressed. Yeah, well maybe, maybe autism is going to save the world, you know, like the whole Temple Grandin thing, you know, she like could see, she could see what the cows could see. Like, what does that mean? I don't know. Who is this? Temple Grandin. So she was like, I think in the seventies,

she's an autistic girl and she had some really good like mentors that like believed in her, cause she's very sharp, you know? And she kind of got pushed, kind of stuck in the corner at school and eventually found like some mentors who are like, hey, no, you know, you're very, you're very bright, you're very coherent. Let me help you out.

Let me find an area where you can put your uniqueness to the, you know. To work. Yeah, put it to work. And she actually sort of revolutionized, ironically, cattle slaughtering. But because she was able, she could go into a feed lot, she was really interested in animals.

She could go into a feed lot or go into a slaughterhouse and be like, what are you doing? This is the stupidest thing ever. Like, you know, if she could see, right? Like they see a reflection and it spooks them or they hear a loud noise and it freaks them out. And you know, God bless them, a bunch of like cattle, roughnecks, right?

They don't care. They're like, ah, dumb cows, like push them through, push harder if they're not going push harder that kind Of thing right and she developed this whole there's a good movie on it But she developed this whole like this new method of getting them through a dunk tank because you got to put them through a dunk tank to like Sterilize them before you kill them and things like that and she created this system where you could offload a ton of cows And you could get them going through at a steady stream and just get them through to the slaughter.

And they were less stressed. Very calm, right? Yeah. And a bunch of things... Yeah. Go along with it. Exactly. A bunch of things you could only know if you could see it the way the cows are seeing it. And that's like a little less supernatural, right?

Because you just get it. You're like, oh, they're freaking out. I can think like a cow. I know how little less supernatural, right? Cause you just get it. You're like, oh, they're freaking out. I can think like a cow. I know how a cow works, right? And you know, like Cesar Milan, the dog trainer, like anybody who's good at what they do, we kind of grant that. We're like, oh, I'll give you that.

You understand it better than anyone else. You can see this in a way that nobody else can. We're very comfortable with that. But that was her thing. She was very autistic, and she was able to have this brilliant insight into something that rationally trying to hit your head against a wall you'd never get to.

Nice. I want to check that out for sure. I mean, thank goodness she came up with something really useful for that skill. Because when you first started to talk about it, I thought to myself, how lame is that, that if you get the type of telepathy where you can only communicate with cows,

and you just like, all they do is think about grass. And mooing. You're like, listen to me, everybody. They're like, all right, cool. We believe you. Moving on. Like, of course it was thinking about grass. That's what they did.

I could have told you that. It just goes nowhere. Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. All right, so there's more examples of this type of thing happening. Yeah, I got to check out the telepathy tapes. I want to.

I think it's a series, it's not that long, right? It's like six episodes. I think so, yeah. I'm looking forward to the movie. I want to check it out. I want to see the movie. And more importantly, I want to see if this picks up any more momentum and, you know, becomes something that is accepted, analyzed, studied, and, you know, in a weird way, it's

giving, it gives the potential of a large voice to people that can't even speak at all. Yeah. And I think for me, the most interesting follow-up after all this is like, I'm going to talk to more people about this. Be like, what? Yeah, when do you think of somebody before they call? Or have you ever had moments where you had a dream

and it came true? Like, I don't know. It's interesting. Why not talk about it? It's cool. Yeah, because you might just find oh this is happening all the time to people yeah and it's one of those things it just doesn't get talked about and it gets easily dismissed and they're good stories it's good stories all right thank you for being here thanks everyone for listening we

appreciate you as always and check this one out and we'll talk to you guys later. Adios!