Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - 434 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Darryl Cooper

Episode Date: March 22, 2025

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One go enjoy the show. Hey guys and welcome to another episode of the JRE review Joined this week by my buddy Nick From the lesser-known operators podcast bio. Check that out. How you doing, Nick? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me back. All right. It's good to have you back. This week, we are reviewing Darrell Cooper. Now, this was an interesting Rogan podcast. Rogan had him on for a good reason. This guy's been taking some heat.

He's kind of a self-taught historian and host of the Martyr Made podcast. It's really known for its deep dive into historical events like Jonestown massacre, which he talked about World War II. It's got over a quarter million followers on X and he's a good storyteller too. He's done some podcasts with Jaco and recently he went on Tucker Carlson and in that interview it kind of people have branded him as an anti-Semite, a bit of a Nazi sympathizer. That's a rough spot to be in, you know.

He's even called Winston Churchill a villain. And yeah, what was your, was this the first time you've been introduced to this person, Nick? I had not heard of this guy before you text me and said, what do you think of this? So threw it on. And you're right. The Tucker Carlson interview, right? And what does Tucker Carlson do? He just riles people up and that works for him to get people to listen to his show. And he said, even at one point, Tucker said he was going to introduce him as the most influential historian of the 21st century or something like that.

And so, well, I'm not that, but he does. And Tucker's a very polarizing person and that probably brought more heat on this guy, right? polarizing person and that probably brought more heat on this guy, right? Whether justly or unjustly, but you know, interesting. He's going to be what certainly upsets the academics when somebody throws that out, because, you know, just like Graham Hancock, like he's not an archaeologist.

He's just a researcher and storyteller. So they come to head like real quick. If you're not like a professor somewhere, you don't have the PhDs. But does that mean you can't tell a story and maybe tell it in a different way? Yeah, Joe loves that. He loves the person that upsets the status quo, right? Especially with Graham Hancock. And, you know, a lot of these fields are like a club, right? And you're not allowed to have an opinion about our area of study unless you're part of the

club, unless you have that degree, unless you're published or in this magazine or this novel. And people will vehemently support or defend these institutions really with very little understanding about who they're attacking. Yeah, it's almost like they create a narrative, which is then has to be agreed upon. And then it's taught that way. And that's what, you know, in his case, the history is. It's like, well, I guess it's the same with Graham Hancock's. Like, this is this is when we developed, or this is what happened in this war. And it's hard to tell the story a different way.

Nobody ever wants to say they're wrong. And the more, and that becomes more evident today. No one ever wants to say they're wrong. But if they did once in a while, people would respect them more. How many times in your life have you said, you know what, I messed up, and I was wrong about the opinions I had before and changed your mind. And people go, that's okay. It's when you're continually wrong, and you keep hammering away at it and pushing all of those signs that are pointing it right out of your life is

when you run into problems. And then you get so deep in the discussion that you can't back yourself out of it. Yeah, you got to like double down, especially if you kind of get caught in a bit of a lie or a contradictory statement. And then you double down because you don't want to be embarrassed yourself. It's like what every that's like the politician playbook. When was the last time you remember a politician actually apologizing for something? I'm not that old, so I don't. Yeah, I can't. I can't remember either.

They don't do it. Maybe Bill Clinton. I don't know. Because he had to. Yeah. My bad. Nixon. Yeah. He said he wasn't a crook, but yeah. With, with that, it's just people, people form opinions rather quickly. Don't they? This individual has fallen victim of that. And partly people attack you on the internet and they don't know anything about you.

They've never met you, they've never had a conversation with you, but you'll say something they don't like and they will go against you for the rest of their lives. And then part of it also is there's so many fake accounts causing havoc on the internet. And sometimes you'll click through and somebody makes a comment

and you just go down the rabbit hole and you determine that that profile is fake, right? So you've got fake people being propped up by real people that think they're saying the right thing where they're just trying to stir up discourse. Yeah. You know, and I think that's why Joe felt so strongly about having him on. Joe's obviously listened to his podcast, you know, kind of knows his stance on things.

And as far as I could tell from this conversation, he was somewhat humanizing the Germans that were Nazis, all the German people in World War II, in a way that obviously upset a lot of people. I mean, you throw the word Nazi sympathizer out there, it's pretty loaded. You know, it's like what Elon is getting accused of and everyone's drawing swastikas on Teslas. And, you know, it's like the ultimate you're a bad guy symbol. It is. It stands out the most from the 20th century, right? Nothing can get more evil than that. And people are going gonna get upset when you bring up Nazis or the Holocaust because it's still, it's not fresh,

but our grandparents lived through that. And our grandparents are still alive, right? Or their parents, those stories are still fresh. And it is the most nasty thing that most people can think of. And it does bother me that people will throw that term out and call other people Nazis when that's not even, that's not the case.

Break down how horrible it is to be a Nazi. You're rounding up a population of people and gassing them or burning them to death. And they'll throw this word out there because they're losing an argument or they hate somebody and things like that. That's no way to act. Have a discussion, have discourse and find out why this person thinks like that or from their perspective, because he kept saying in there, imagine it from their perspective. Well, people attacking him, they don't want to imagine things from his perspective, which is terrible.

And that's what he's trying to get at is we need to understand why things happen so they don't happen again. Yeah. And that's all about putting together as accurate a picture as you can, which is really the point of historians, right? They got to work through the legend and the mythology and the rest of it and get to like, what did it actually look like? And for it to go back not even a hundred years, and maybe we don't have as clear a picture

of something like World War II as we think, then there might be things we're missing. And it can repeat itself if we don't understand it well. That's what's scary about something like that. History, as in newspapers and history, only the names and dates change. The actions are exactly the same. And I guess to unravel that,

everything happens over and over again. If you see the signs, that's why some people are so good with finances. They can recognize patterns. And historians are so important because these things happen over and over again. People rise to power, they fall out of power, countries come and go.

Once you're on top, you can only stay there for so long. And that's the job of the historian, to bring everything to the forefront. Hey, this happened before. But as we go along in the modern age, our attention span gets shorter and shorter and shorter. And we just want the information in 30 seconds. And we don't want to look at the second behind the curtain anymore and get the rest of the facts. And

that's where people jump to conclusions, right? They just establish what they believe. And that's it. And they don't have time or the capacity to look deeper into things and see what's really going on. For sure. Yeah. When he's telling stories, like what he does is like, you know, recaps these things from like World War I, World War II, or the rest of it. I mean, going into things like trench warfare, for example.

How important do you think it is for generations that have no experience with war to understand these stories and for these stories to be told? The stories are hard to be told as it is. I just interviewed a guy, background similar to mine, combat veteran as a Green Beret. I want to clear up. I was not a combat veteran. I got hurt. He was a combat veteran, Green Beret, and he didn't learn certain things about his dad until he got back from Afghanistan and his dad

was a Vietnam vet and he nobody heard these stories he didn't tell anybody and he learned a whole new thing about his dad that he never knew before a new perspective of him a man he'd known his whole life, right? And he only told him because they had been in combat, not together, but they had seen actual fighting in different parts of the world, in different generations. And the individual, it's very hard for them to tell those stories. And that's where the historian comes in, right? But they are also telling stories based on their perspective because they have to get people to listen to them.

You write a textbook and that just sits on a shelf. It's dead, right? It's sitting there. It's not doing anything. But a story that people want to listen to and possibly learn something about, that's difficult to do. And to put the time in to take the lessons learned of battle, especially World War I, was horrible, horrible fighting. The worst you can imagine, the technology was far, far beyond the tactics of the time. Just most horrible thing you can encounter.

And that was fresh in everybody's mind. 10 years, 20 years later in 37, 38. Right, yeah. Yeah, I mean, the story that he was telling about how that you'd be in the trenches, right? You can't go anyway. You can't get over the top. You're just laying there. It's probably muddy. It's probably wet. It's really uncomfortable. I'm sure their gear is like nothing like guys have today.

So who knows what the state of their boots will like and all the rest of it, their rations. And over in the corner, you know, could be your buddy. Been dead for a few days. Can't do anything. Can't bury anybody because they're already buried along the trenches. Can the can any human mind like perceive what the heck is going on there? No, you have to, there's...

No, you can't. To go off into battle, it's one thing to join the military, right? And it's one thing to train and get ready to do things. It's another to actually do it. But to see the horrors of war and think it's something you can't impress on people because all right, have you ever heard the phrase the worst thing to ever happen to you is the worst thing to ever happen to you? Yes. Well, that's true, right? If you're fighting

a battle and seeing your friends die, that's the worst thing that's ever happened to you. If you're going to college and you get kicked out of math class and that's the worst thing that ever happened to you, that is also your baseline of the worst thing to ever happen to you. But inconceivable, the comparison between the two. Unless you've experiencing something that traumatic and the comparison between the two, right? Unless you've experiencing something that traumatic and with that type of an impact,

you're not gonna know, one, how it's going to affect you or two, what it's like. And that's a deep perspective that even the best storyteller is not gonna be able to convey that message. Sure, Yeah. You almost need to be like. Walking in the trenches, you know, they need to make like a movie set that you can walk through to even make sense of what is being said.

Oh, that's good. That's a good point. You bring that up, right? Saving Private Ryan, the opening. Yeah. Several, several World War II veterans were invited to the opening night and they had to, they walked out. Yeah. Because it was so realistic.

It was so unusual. It was so unusual. I don't want to say realistic because I hadn't been there. I had no experience with anything so I wouldn't know but it just, it hit it a different way, for sure. Like, it was so vivid. Like you could you just sunk into that opening scene. And it was terrifying.

That was D-Day, right? The perspective. That's a good way to put it, right? A perspective like that, where you can see it and you're, you can multiple senses are taking it all in. You can see it, you can hear it and surround sound and you, and you could feel it also because the bass in the theater. So you've got three senses taking it in. That's really the only way because like I said, if you're reading something, you're just, that's a, that's a dead story. But if you're feeling it and looking

at it, and then you can conceptualize, you have the wherewithal to realize what's going on. People are dying. And there's the same age people up on that hill as the ones on down in the beach are shooting machine guns at these people. They're all people. Kids being told by slightly older kids to kill those people down there. Yeah, the average age was it was young, right? They were like 18 with very little training. And it's like, go a different different generation too, a much different generation. How many times have you seen an article where so-and-so volunteered to join the Navy or the Marines when he was 15?

He lied on his entrance exams and went off to war and things like that, was having all the time going off to fight for their country. Completely different generation. The world where we live in right now is not that place. It's tough to imagine. Yeah, it is. And it does seem, it does seem valuable because, you know, like anything we forget, we could

do multiple decades in even the whole generations in America for one without most people seeing war and you know I think it's I think it's important to understand and be somewhat reminded of how horrific it is to you, slow down any efforts to get back there. I'm not saying like our government is looking to get into a war, but you know, when you get upset with a different side or there's another 9-11 or whatever it is, it's like, yeah, go get them. Let's get them for this instead of realizing hey, this is 25 years of money and pain and death

Ten trillion dollars, right ten trillion dollars spent in the Middle East on Warren global war on terror and that's the Nexus event, right? We don't live our modern equivalent to something like that is September 10th, 2001 is not the same planet that we were on on September 11th, 2001. Two different, completely different worlds. But that's a long time ago now. It's going to be 24 years in September. There's people alive that weren't born at that time. Many people that are alive at one point at that time, they don't know that feeling. And there's many people that are gone, uh, passed away that were there. Remember it would have remembered it.

So the population, even though it's still huge and shrinking that has a memory of that, and that's it's no, it's fault. It's I wouldn't say it is a fault. It just is a result of life. Everyone's opinions and perspectives is going to be shaped by their experiences that they go through in their life. And whenever they happen to be born or things like that,

they're going to be affected by those. And that's going to shape the view of the past going forward. For sure. In Vietnam, how many Americans died in that? Do you know roughly what it was? The number? 58,000. Okay. Yeah.

Cause I was just looking for like a, one of the stats from World War One, it said the battle of theomme saw over 57,000 British casualties in one day. Obviously, they didn't all die casualties, but think of how enormous that is. Just watch Ken Burns' Civil War, right? Right? There was battle after battle after battle where they would lose 10, 20, 30,000 soldiers. Not all dead, but most, you know, killed in battle. And then for every soldier that was killed in battle, two would die of infection. They're hacking limbs off. You get shot through a limb, they're cutting your limb off and things like that. Horrible, horrible conditions.

It's unimaginable. More men fell at the first battle of Shiloh than had fallen in all previous wars up to that point in the history of the United States. And that was, as the war went on, that was a small battle of small, small casualties. And that just continued on through the Civil War, where we slaughtered each other wholesale. We're very good at war. We're very good at killing one another. That's not restricted to

the boundaries of the United States. It's a good thing that war is so terrible or else we will become too fond of it. Well, I think we have become fond of it. It's very ingrained in our world history, fighting and killing each other wholesale. And, you know, part of the reason, and this is what I was suspicious of after listening to this podcast, is maybe we're not telling the story as well as we should. Like with something as terrifying and horrible as what war is, from an outside perspective, it doesn't seem like it should be too complicated to get most of the people to be very against the idea of it. But it's not always how it's seen, I guess. I don't know if it's that we're not telling the story

well. I think we are developing a story based on our predispositions of our culture and the point of view that we're coming from. He's still telling a good story, but that's based on where he's coming from, his perspective on life. If you tell the story of the last 20 years in Afghanistan and you go interview some Afghanis and start to put together what the last 20 years was like for them, that's not going to be the same story. It's not going to be the same tale.

And they might tell it well, but it's not going to line up with what is being told to us. And ours won't line up with what theirs is. They just won't, They won't mesh. They'll be happening at the same time, but from different sides of the coin. Yeah. And you hear that sometimes too with different countries and the way that they, I mean, they always say that like history is told by the winners, right?

But in a sense, like the losers don't get all wiped out anymore. They continue and then they have their history. Yeah, you wanna get the most recent example of perspective in battle or a gunfight. Go on Netflix and watch Surviving Black Hawk Down. They have the Delta Force and Ranger operators that were actually there being interviewed telling their story. And then they sent out people to interview these people

in Somalia that were in the battle, normal civilians or Somali rebels or fighters that were fighting against these same people that are being interviewed. And that's a perfect example of two different perspectives on fighting and killing one another. Hmm. Wow. And I could imagine it is very different, like you're saying. Yeah, they I mean, the US lost, you know, in the in the double digits of soldiers, they lost, you know, Somalis 500 to a thousand somewhere in there. And the guy says, we don't, I don't care how many people we lose as long as we kill one

American or we kill Americans or get our shots off and things like that. Completely different way of looking at things, willing to sacrifice just to bring down the big bad Americans that are disrupting their way of life. Interesting. You should check of life. Hmm. Interesting. You should check it out. Yeah. It was a powerful movie just in itself. And yeah, one of those things where you watch it and you're like, I obviously

movies and not where you should get your history from, but it's like, this is a, this is a documentary. This just came out. Yeah. No, the only thing I've seen is the, is the movie of it. I did see the documentary on Netflix and it was one of those things where I'm like, ah, I need to take I Need to take a good night or evening where I've got some time Because if something grabs me I have to watch all of them and then you know

It just like will ruin the next six hours because I just won't be able to stop It just does one of those yeah powerful stuff man it's just it's just terrible terrifying things and you know when somebody like this guy a storyteller you know I almost called him a historian he doesn't want that. But it tries to put together an idea of what was happening. I mean, the big controversy for him is when he was talking about like Hitler's younger part of his life, just understanding who this man is that rose to power, what was happening in Germany and the pieces that kind of led to it. And yeah, he does kind of humanize parts of Hitler's younger life.

But what he was saying, he's noticed is there's no room for that in the discourse. Like he has to be demonized at every point, ultimately leading to being the worst person ever. ultimately leading to being the worst person ever. And I don't necessarily get the value of that unless people are just so concerned that there will be admiration that gets built or some sort of following. It doesn't seem possible. To lead to a second coming, you mean, of the third Reich? It's interesting. So he is a face for that story, but the stuff that he is saying, I have heard in just documentary form on like a Netflix or a streaming service, right?

And they'll say, this happened to Hitler here and in World War I, while he was recovering from his mustard gas inhalation in the hospital, then he started going to these. And they just lay it out, all the things that led up to him becoming, what was he, a chancellor or whatever, he was elected, right? Yeah, I think they call that chance of that he's just telling those same things that are that are laid out in documentaries in a different way so yeah I don't get maybe people just don't like his face so that could be as simple as that but yeah I don't know there's a hot-button

subjects right you bring up the Nazis or the Holocaust people are gonna get fucking upset Mm-hmm, and they don't I don't want to hear it. They don't want to Yeah, I get it. Yeah humanize Any part of the Nazi war machine because it was so evil so bad and such a stain on humanity as a whole that any humanization of that evilness is taboo

Mm-hmm Yeah, and and In so much of what I felt like he was saying is just kind of understanding the time and the people of that time and knowing that, you know, they're still people like we are, but it was a different time. They had like different motivations and politics. Especially in Germany, they just come on off the back of like, what was that super hyperinflation?

Like their whole country was in disarray. They were desperate for something to help kind of hold them together and create some nationalism. And um Yeah, it's a weird one because already I was like thinking to myself not to make excuses for them, but like they They're trying to just keep their country and their life together. Right they and rebuild right the World War War was a terrible taxing on Europe at the time and they want to rise back to where they were and that was a way forward that some people saw to get there.

And things got off the rails. Because obviously, to get elected into power, you have to say one thing. And then, well, we just slowly descended into hell after that and started pushing things off in a direction that the citizens who voted for that probably never intended to. And you gotta think, people had a trust in what's being fed to them in the media, right?

Because there's nothing else being put out. I mean, you've got a few neighbors that you're getting information from and the people you work from, but there's no cell phones. There's no fucking power in some places, right? You strip away all of the luxuries of modern life and everything you take for granted now in the 30s. And that's what the time you're sitting in

where to find anything out, you had to go to a book and look it up. First you had to know which book that you need to get the information out of, find it, then understand it. Oh shit. You know, had to know how to read too. Yeah. So it's just a completely different way of life and purpose and everything.

And it's something that people maybe now don't have, or one don't have the time or the wherewithal or the mental capacity to process just how different things were and what was being fed to them at the time. Right. Yeah. One thing that he brought up that I think that in a way America doesn't get that much credit for is kind of the progressive stance. It's always taken on immigration.

And I know that's always like one of those hot top, you know, button topics, but you know, he said that back, you know, in the 1800s, there was just this message put out there to a lot of the world, all those that could get to America saying, Hey, if you want to be an American, come over here and we'll help you be a citizen, right? In so many words. And, you know, a lot of Irish came over, English, you know, Dutch, like this is why there's the melting pot that kind of, you know, expanded and built the U.S.

But, you know, almost no other country has had that kind of opening, you know, in that way. And it happened for a long time. I mean, they needed to populate the country. So it was like useful in a sense. But, you know, it brought these people that maybe felt rejected from where they were. Maybe there's religious persecution. Maybe they just wanted a different life. There was something happening that made them get over.

And, you know, a lot of them are landing in New York. They're looking for work, laborers, whatever. He gave the stat that like on the docs, it was like a 14 year life expectancy. I can't imagine that that stat was well known because people wouldn't be doing that job, but maybe they didn't have a choice. You just did what you could do. You did. Yeah, because once the industrial revolution happened, right, you're dependent on work

to live and to maintain the life that you have or the meager accommodation that you have and eat and things. Now you live in a city and there's pollution, there's no regulation on anything. As far as immigration goes, imagine that we discovered you could live on the moon. It was just habitable. And all you got to do is take a spaceship ride to the moon and you can have some land and go live over there and have your homestead. You go, you'd be like, yeah, let me go. That's kind of what it was like when, because America was really, really only started to get explored in the 1800s. Right. Yeah. hundreds, right? Yeah, really starting to get us for it. You know, the Native American population was there, but that had been completely decimated by diseases and coming over from England that they weren't used to. If you want a good example of why there's inequities in society, and the things that happen, read guns, germs and steel, won the Pulitzer Prize for literature. And some cultures were just at a disadvantage of where geographically they were.

And that was the case in North and South America. They came over and they're decimated by disease. And then also the technology was far beyond coming over the seas was far beyond anything that existed in the Americas at that time. So that we were just able to steamroll over everything that was there and take it away. Not saying it was right, just that's what happened. Right. And another just terrible, terrible things that we did to our fellow humans but after that was the life the time that they lived in and They living in that time not us in the future looking back

They thought they were doing the right thing and we can sit back and judge them all we want But it's not gonna change anything. We got to learn from what they did and not let it happen again. Right. Yeah, it would be, it would be interesting if you could get, you know, how they do like the family tree thing, like 23 and me, your D not just your DNA, but like that's how you like who your great, great granddad was all the rest of it. And then to go back and like like look at these ancestors that laid the ground for you to exist and then judge them based on what they were doing at that time.

It would be easy to do. It's almost like that energy exists today. And it doesn't, that definitely doesn't seem like the right approach. It's like, Hey, they were dealing with what they had in front of them. And yes, nobody's perfect. Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, but we both say that now. But that comes back to the Nazi discussion, right? Something so horrible, that all we've done is pass that judgment that that is the most evil thing that we can think of. And we get back to why they don't like this guy. Society has established that that is the worst thing

to come out of the 20th century, is Nazis. And anything that hints at defending or humanizing them is going to be attacked. Right. So maybe it just occurs that because we, you know, that's the one we pass judgment on. That's the one where we say, no, fuck them because that's as bad as it gets. Even though equally bad things were happening

in other parts of the world at the same time. For sure. Those are ignored. The things that happened in USSR are horrible, but didn't get the press that Hitler did. Right. What was it like the Gulags? Was that the awful prisons over there. If you read the Gulag Archipelago by Alexander Solosnetskin, you will be apprised to the horrors of Soviet Russia from the October Revolution through the fall of communism in the 90s. Yeah, terrible thing.

We're very good at being terrible to one another, right? Yeah, that's what history seems to have done. For sure. I mean, they gave the example towards the end of the pod where they were saying, even in like the 1700s, there were church sites in England that had the skin of human Dutch raiders, like stretched over the doors in England. You've got to warn people. Yeah, you've got to warn people.

Look back, what steps led them to that action, right? To leave that warning for people. So okay, yes, that is terrible. How did we get to that point? Right. It was probably even more horrible, the things that were happening to make that happen and then something more horrible before that. Yeah.

I mean, it's unlikely without knowing more that it was just some psychopathic preacher that just skins some Dutch people and stretched over the door. But it's kind of how we would see it if it happened today. Yet in the context of it being on their doors for a while, there's a whole thing in there. It's like a warning to raiders, like a message that gets sent. And if you have to send a message that strong, then there might be,

I don't wanna say good reason, but there might be a need for it. Like that's how dangerous these invaders could be, right? There are definitely a reason for it. You're definitely sending a message, not to not to fuck with this, this location, or this will happen to you. And that's, you know, often it's like, does the punishment fit the crime, the punishment never fits the crime, right? We put these Nazi leaders on trial, Nuremberg trials, and what should the punishment have been? They should have been fucking put in

concentration camps and worked to death like they subjected people to do, but that's not humane to do, right? So, and a lot of that happens with crime and things, the punishment never fits the crime. So it's terrible that it will happen again, because the things that will happen to the people that do it are never, they're never, it's never enough to deter somebody from making it happen again, because then you become evil just like they were. Hmm. Yeah.

I mean, look, I think that what Darrow is doing is valuable. I think that the kind of attacks that he's coming up against, you know, kind of remind me of what people are doing with Teslas out there drawing swastikas on right now because they're angry, they're mad, and they want to demonize a certain thing and speak out against it. And you know, in a lot of ways, I am kind of a freedom absolutist. Like, you know, I think protests and the ability to do it are important. Speaking out against things you don't like, sure. I mean, try not to destroy property.

But yeah, if you don't like something, you get to speak against it too. But I think what Daryl is doing has value. And, you know, I think ultimately it helps the narrative, you know, maybe it helps reconstruct future historians to kind of narrate the past in a different way. And there's just something that hits me with this about accuracy. Accuracy of the story to be told. That I think is useful. People can get upset for whatever reason they're getting upset with him over. And that's their business, right? But he's storytelling history.

And what are the other benefits of that, right? But he's storytelling history. And what are the other benefits of that, right? Is in our hyper rush to judgment, quick attention span generation, he's putting out long form history lessons for people to digest, especially younger generation. Will they somehow be weaponized or they're pushed towards Nazis?

I don't see it, apparently some people do. I don't, but you gotta get people interested in it. Even if you don't like it. History's tough to sell to people. It's like fitness. Fitness is tough to sell to people, but if you make it fun, people can get into it. Health and fitness, history, you have to learn where

you came from before you can know where you're going. Right? Yeah. Otherwise, no more cliches or you're risked or you're risking to repeat the inequities of the past or how are you doomed to repeat it? That's it. Yeah. the repeat it. Yeah good point and on that note thank you for joining me this week Nick and Yeah, good discussion and I want to check it Darra out some more I want to get into his podcast kind of like make my own decision other than just doing it off of Rogan's show but Yeah, it's fascinating. Check it out, guys. Let us know what you think.

And otherwise, we'll speak to you guys next time.