Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - 442 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Jeremy and Eduardo Harris

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

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You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast and pass them on to you, perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's walking dead. You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created. Now with your host Adam Thorne.

Might even be the worst podcast. One of the best one of all time. One go enjoy the show. Hello ladies and gentlemen, mostly gentlemen, let's be honest. But yeah, we are here to do the Joe Rogan Experience Review episode 2311, Jeremy and Eduardo Harris, AI. Joined this week by good old Sean. Hello, everyone. Sean, the ex-intern.

Ex-intern, yeah, I was fired. Well, he was not, but after what he has not remembered about podcasting, maybe you should have assumed to be soon to be fired. Doing good. Yeah. What was your take on these guys? Have you heard of them before they've been on Rogan before? I didn't know that they've been on Rogan before. I was a big fan of them, though. I feel like at first I thought it was a debate

when you showed it to me at first, because it was like a long podcast and there's two dudes Yeah, this is gonna be a heated debate. But no they were they were both really smart I Thought it was funny too. They're both like young guys a lot of the time when Joe gets in experts. They're like Yes, the Chinese Communist Party is interfering with our intelligence. And then these guys are just like, yeah, CCP is fucking with our shit. They're just like super casual about it. Yeah. They don't have that like academic eloquence, let's say. Yeah. But clearly smart, though.

Oh, but but that's they have the way of communicating, right? They're not they're not like tied to a university. Yeah. They know that their credibility in most part is coming from the fact that they're on Rogan and people like listening to them, which is a smart way of orienting it. Yeah, and they talked a lot about the problems with the academic route of things, just like how hard it is and the pressures that people get pushed into and where funding comes from.

And like the one that they were talking about how if you have like a scientific paper that you want to get recognized, you'll just add some well-known dude to your paper who didn't contribute at all, but people see his name and they're like, oh, this must be legit. And I pay them for that and stuff. That's kind of crazy. I didn't know that that was going on. I'm not surprised though. I've known that there's been some weird shit in academia. And going through college and seeing it firsthand,

I mean, you can definitely tell that the schools have a bias and that they try to force you into a certain way of thinking. But as far as like being in that world, like a professional in that world, I didn't know that there was so much pressure and just how much of an uphill battle it is. We should start writing our own scientific papers as non-scientists and then, and then have a bunch of names like Neil deGrasse Tyson, yeah, Stephen Hawkins, Einstein, and then just put,

try to email them no response at the end. Yeah. And then they're like, Oh, well, you know, legit. Yep. At least they were a part of it. Yeah. Albert Einstein helped us, right? This is 2025. Yeah, Albert Einstein helped us write this in 2025. If they had the right leaning in a university, they would take it. Yeah. You know, you just got to pander to the right people for sure. All right, so let's get into AI and kind of the meat of what these guys are looking at,

which I'm always so interested to hear because there's so much info out there. Everyone's using chat, GPT, GROK, you know, deep seek, whatever it is. What's the llama? The Facebook one is if you use that is anyone using that? I don't know. No, I don't like. I get mad at my friends whenever I ask them a question and they're like, let me Google it. And then they just read the Google AI script thing.

I'm like, come on, bro. That's, that's not helpful. No, I mean, most of the, sometimes it is, but it's always like, uh, like deep questions where I'm just like, come on, man, don't, don't fuck. Well, I think that's why, that's why I think that the name Grok is better than chat GPT because no one's ever going to say let's chat GPT it. Google it just rolls off the tongue.

Pretty easy. And if that's where everyone goes to get a piece of information, which they have done for a long time, 15 years, maybe more, that's what it is. Right. But let's Grok it is you could get away with that. Yeah, it might be the way. I mean, realistically that AI is where I go for most of the information I want. I want like Google just is a sponsorship, you know, tool now in a way. It's just like paid answers. It's not really the information

It's not what it used to be kind of sucks to like Google things. Yeah, I find myself More and more increasingly going to the second page of Google which like for years was like I never had to do But now of it nowadays It's like yeah half the first page is just sponsored bullshit that you don't even want. Even especially if it's something to do with product. Yeah. Like if you're trying to find a product, maybe even not even trying to buy something, but just trying to look up information about something, it's like so much sponsored bullshit. So much dude. So it's not helpful. No. Yeah. Just clogs shit. But yeah, I think using AI as just a tool for things is good.

But I feel like the big part of Google is obviously they're always updating it. But the updates and it's like search optimization that works better for them than for you. Whereas with the AI tools, it doesn't seem to work like that. It works better for the user. And, you know, these guys started off by saying, like, AI is achieving 50% success

on hour-long tasks, right? It's doubling every four months. So it's like getting really fast at doing what we can do anyway and it's gonna take over us real fast. Like that's a rapid growth in its ability to improve. Yeah I think in general like when a lot of the early chat GBT stuff came out like once it first hit the mainstream people were using it people kind of understood how it was gonna work like. Like everyone kind of knew, hey,

this curve of how this gets better is exponential. Like it's not a linear thing. It's exponential. And then now years have gone by and computing and like how that could feed in. Now they didn't seem too pumped on that happening. I guess I don't know enough about it. Like maybe there's limitations with the way that it thinks or, but I kind of think that they already made the point that quantum computer can make calculations that couldn't be done by a supercomputer today if it existed the life of the universe. Yeah, right. So if you can do it with some calculations could eventually not do

it with all of them. And then what happens if you also throw in an AI model and enough power? Yeah, well I think that the power part is important. They talked about that on the show of like scaling this stuff. You do kind of reach a cap, at least from a material economical standpoint. like they were saying some of these specific chips that they need to build these data centers for AI models are in such high demand that they're just buying up all the ones that get produced. So it's like there's a manufacturing cap on how

fast and big you can build these things just because of the resources involved, but you still have governments like our own Or more so like private people like Google and Facebook and Microsoft and others But in the case of China you have a government spending hundreds of billions of dollars on this just trying to get ahead in this race and Luckily there is some sort of a cap to this but I think like you can still with current stuff do a lot of damage what do you what do you mean by cap well just like you can only scale things so quickly because there is a like so the cap you're talking about is speed yeah how fast we're not gonna run out no we're not gonna run out it's just how

fast you can produce them like this. Companies can only produce so many chips over certain amount of time. And then because of that, because of that limit, that hard limit, you can only build data centers and therefore AI matching that speed. But I mean, it's still enough. They tried whipping their employees.. I was watching the horse races the other day and I'm like... The derby? They were getting those horses moving. If we need chips bad enough, could they... Maybe that's too far. Tickle? Little tickles? Yeah. Get it moving. Chinese got it. I mean, their people are so dedicated. Anyways, just a side point. When

I walked into work this morning, my like 70 something year old boss immediately, he was like, did you watch the Kentucky Derby last night? And I was like, why the fuck do you think I would watch the Kentucky Derby? Like, no, no. I was like, did you watch this? He was like, I watched some of it.

I was like, why? Fucking why? Cause it's a, it's an old time it's a it's an old timey thing. It's a little timey thing, probably a hell of a thing to gamble on. No doubt. I mean, the horse races can be fun. Yeah, I'm sure it's cool to go to one. But ultimately, I think your boss was just trying to connect with you.

And next time, you know, be a bit nicer to him. Yeah, he pays your bills. He'd be like, I missed it, but I would love to hear about it. Yeah. And then go from there. But then I'm stuck in like a 15 minute conversation that I don't really care about. Yeah, but if you quickly switch to AI and how maybe they could whip the chip makers and how that relates to horse racing, you know, you get to steer the conversation in

the direction that you like. It's like me trying to barge my 9-11 conspiracies into literally any topic. It's like everyone's like, oh, it's kind of a stretch. I don't know how that correlates. Like we gotta stop inviting this guy. Places. But yeah, honestly, like one of the things I was going to say is I think a lot of, at least the first half of the podcast was more so just about China in general.

I think so. And like AI and stuff. But yeah, I mean, that is so scary. Some of the stuff they were talking about, how they're fucking with us and how, just how much farther advanced they are in this. I mean, the whole country is really doubling down on building these AI models. And that's scary because they're a massive country with very dedicated group of hardworking people that are very smart and have lots of money.

And we have like a couple of companies working on it. But speaking of caps, the other thing they were talking about in the US at least is just the power, the amount of power that you need to build these data centers. I mean, it's like, I don't remember a gigawawatt I think is the metric. It's like a million homes. You can power a million homes with one gigawatt and one of these data centers takes like at least one if not a couple of gigawatts to run and our electrical infrastructure in the US there's only a couple places that you can still build these things and not like, you know, suck power from the nearby town and kill everybody.

But we're running out of those spots. And so for the US, we're that trouble of there being a slow cap to it or not a cap, but like a limit to how quickly you can build these is a lot more tricky for us than in China. Yeah, I mean, why do you think they're building so many coal plants over there? Like they want to make energy as cheap as possible for that whole country and they don't care how they do it. Yeah. I mean, it's a smart move if you don't care about the environment and also want to bring up your economy real fast, which to be fair, if you feel like America is your enemy, then what options do you have?

I mean, you got to beat the top dog that's like way far ahead of you. You got to do whatever you can do. And I'm just talking on the level of like if you're just doing a power play, right? This isn't about conscientiousness. Like they're gonna do it. I mean, there was a report this year

that the AI doubling global electricity demand by 2030. So AI will need to do that. These data centers alone will double the electricity demand. Like, oh. By 2030, you said? Dude, that's not long. Yeah, and like you put that.

That's like tomorrow. Yeah, you put that in the scale of like the US, it's like, oh, are we just supposed to double our electrical infrastructure in five years? Like, how does that happen? Dude, we're already maxed out almost. Yeah. Like the power grid in in Texas is going down often. Yeah.

But you know, look, for a long time, they were farting around about nuclear power. It's so scary and dangerous. And it's the end of the world, fallout stuff. These plants are getting safer and safer. Yeah, we're on like fourth gen plants now. We could build them all over the place. They're literally zero emissions. Yep. Tons of power. Yeah. Now also we're getting better at using the depleted. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. We've gotten a lot better at doing that

because that was the big pushback from people too. It was like, oh, well, there's still waste. You know, you have the excess stuff whenever you use all the energy out of it. But they found ways to do that. Do you know what the excess stuff was? So for you, for your entire life, for all your energy needs,

how much depleted uranium, because that's what will be left, uranium turned into, and they don't just use uranium now, we have thorium plants, which are really good too, and they're easier to deal with, but just from depleted uranium, the chunk that it makes for you, which is the equivalent in a sense to your carbon footprint,

which in coal plants would be a billion tons of, who knows, a hundred thousand, a million, it would be a lot. How much depleted uranium do you think you use? Is it like a golf ball size or something? Oh, you low board it. Oh, is it? Can of Coke. Can of Coke?

That's still impressive. Per person. I was at first gonna say basketball, but I was like it? Can of Coke. Can of Coke? That's still impressive. Per person. I was at first gonna say basketball, but I was like, that's a lot. Can of Coke, per person. I don't remember what the metric is, but. And yeah, it upsets people that we have to like bury it underground or whatever,

but it's like, hey, if we find a use for it. So much better than all the alternatives. We can dig it up. It's gotta be better, right? Even a lot of the other, we won't go there for right now, but a lot of the other renewable energy methods that they have like wind and solar,

solar is not as bad, but wind is not good. Like it's just not good. The amount of resources that you need to build those windmills and maintain them is like, as you know, to how much energy you're getting out of them. And a lot of those windmills and maintain them is like a joke to how much energy you're getting out of them. And a lot of those windmills and equipment that you use to do that are made from petroleum-based things. So it's not great, but I completely agree.

I think nuclear is a great solution and it's really lazy that we haven't done anything about it. I mean, France is completely powered by nuclear energy. They figured it out. It's completely powered by nuclear energy and it's yeah. That would be the way to do it though. But these AI centers are already Google, it already is working on basically a small nuclear reactor that only runs its AI center. Yeah. And it's getting approval for it. So the more of those you build, I mean, you can be running little towns off this stuff,

which is fun. Yeah. Right. I mean, we have submarines that have a small nuclear power plant in them and they run for decades. That's a good point. Yeah. Like, you can make it work. You can make it work as long as it is in the interest

of the people who are controlling things. You know, like, it was in the interest of the national security and safety of our country and the military's wishes to build nuclear power submarines. Like, if we just prioritized the welfare of people and building clean energy, like, we could make it work. We could make it work. We can make it work. It's lazy to think that we couldn't.

That is a good point. I did not think of that until you said it, but of course they're not that big. No, they're not like as big as an aircraft carrier. They are fucking huge. But I mean, compared to a house. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? All right. So I just Google it. It can generate 30 to 40 megawatts.

All right. Let's see what it says. Final answer. Five thousand to seven and a half thousand homes continuously for. How long? Let's ask how many years. For what is this? The one in the sub one nuclear sub.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So you get to have it in like a small Town yeah, the only reason they have to surface 30 years Yeah, the only reason you have to surface those things is because they run out of food They can create their own oxygen down there. They just run out of food. You can recycle the water obviously But yeah, wait till we have the drone so big crew yeah dude airdrop AI drone subs it can't be that long I'm sure they already have them what they probably do isn't isn't it the theory like whatever you think the military has the capabilities of they're already two decades ahead of that like

what's public yeah isn't that kind of a? I mean not what I think yeah, I'm like you go deep on the time traveled super laser sex bots good luck like But if you think I think those UAP drones that a lot of us are seeing a probably UAP drones that a lot of us are seeing are probably something military. For sure. I don't know why we would still be sending like regular jets into combat when we have those. I feel like those things could just kamikaze stuff instantly.

Right? Yeah, it's because we have cameras everywhere. Cameras in the battlefield and shit. Oh, so they see it. they want to keep that secret. Anyways, getting back to AI a little bit. One of the things that I have kind of known but didn't realize it was as big of a deal as it is, is just the amount of social media that's controlled by chat bots. They talked about that in the podcast.

It was something like, I don't remember the metric exactly, but a lot of like politically commented things and posts and stuff because it's gotten to the point where it's so easy to create bots that look exactly like people. And you have countries who put tons of money into this and private people who want to just fuck things over. And so they just make thousands of these bots and then people see content that they post and comments and things like, oh, this is what people actually think this is what people are arguing about. This is the general consensus of

the United States. But it's just engineered by someone who wants you to think a certain way. Yeah, it's crazy. Well, that was a big play that Elon had when he moved into Twitter and getting rid of these bots and you know, there were people analyzing Twitter that were like, it might be as much as 70% of bots, which completely undervalues his company. Like it destroys the value of it. If you're talking like user cost and he didn't care, he was like, get rid of them, find them and get rid of them. And then what was interesting about it and how you know this is

valuable and it worked is that there was contact with other social media companies of like how they identified it because it was important for a lot of them to get rid of this. Like it was in a sense, destroying social media, like user experience. And if you think about it, it makes sense. That's just pure propaganda. Yeah. Yeah. And people are so reliant on social media nowadays to get their information. Yeah. I mean, it's just massive brainwashing.

And I mean, they've been doing taxing like this for forever through social media. I mean, we all know about the Russia stuff with our elections and things like that. And just in general, the election cycles just being manipulated by media companies to make people think certain ways and get people to fight over things and just yeah I think in general like what because I I notice that whenever I go on social media like a lot of stuff nowadays posted is political and I think some of it is my algorithm but I see a lot of that stuff and now that I know this I'm like thinking about it I'm like man a lot of that is gotta be fake like I'm sure there are people with those opinions, but a lot of times

It's just really loud people saying things and then people are just like oh, yeah This is what people think and so you're just pushing people to the extremes You know the extreme right people are arguing with the extreme left people and then middle ground people are being like oh This is what everyone thinks. This is where we are right now. We're fucked Do you ever watch those like really compelling videos that are like quite well put together? are clearly like extreme conspiracy thinking and then there's like four likes No comments. Oh, yeah, almost no one's following

Their page at all and I'm like, why have I never seen that if this video is is truthful as they're saying like how is this like the first or somewhat first I've ever heard of it and yet it just randomly shows up on your feet and I'm like why does Instagram think that I should even watch this now sure I was probably looking at wacky stuff that was like similar to that, you know, at some point. But, you know, I kind of want, I would kind of want like a filter that's like,

yeah, if the site is not well verified, don't show me it ever. I don't care. Unless they directly know one of my friends, you know, and it's yeah, maybe you know Jim Yeah, but even then I don't need to see the feed just show that on the someone you could follow page I'll decide there but you do get those weird Things that pop up. Yeah, dude some some video that popped up the other day was trying to persuade me that Some video that popped up the other day was trying to persuade me that Theo Vaughan was a plant. Like his family was wealthy and he's like connected and that's how he got in the real world.

And it was just always like just rich people plugging him into a position. I'm like, dude, what kind of conspiracy theory do you think Theo Vaughan is trying to be? You've met him, right? Oh yeah, I know. I've met Theo a few times. I feel like Theo is like the most genuine person you can meet. Well, yeah, obviously the video didn't work with me. Yeah. Like I'm the worst guy to show it to.

And I'm just like, also, what do we have? Like the most genuine, real kind of, you know, some like pretty much ego-less individual that shows up on a podcast and is just like willing to cry with you, you know? Yeah. And be as silly as fuck. And interview Donald Trump, by the way. Yeah. And talk about cocaine.

Talk about cocaine. Oh my god. Legend. But, but yeah, it's, it's this kind of like bot system that's like popping up and really messing with your algorithms. And it does seem to be that these social media companies have been really struggling to figure it out. I mean, listen, look at Zuckerberg, right? He's like changed this whole style. It's like Zuckerberg 2.0, he's got the gold chain, I do Jiu-Jitsu, I'm connected to UFC, I go on Rogan even though he he's not impressing Rogan like Elon can. I mean, he's doing his best but you know that they're changing it up so that people think that they're cool

And I think where Elon is different is he came in bought Twitter? Found out what the bots were didn't give a fuck about profit wasn't apologizing to anyone cleaned it up and Was able to kind of like throw out that narrative to other people like hey this is happening we can show you how to clean this up this would be better for people yeah it's just that they do it did all the other sites besides Twitter do that and I don't know I mean I think part of me thinks that these companies know that this is going on and allow it to happen

to a certain level because there's some incentive for them somehow. And I mean, in general, like we've seen that, like through the Twitter files and stuff, we've seen that the government is involved with controlling some of this stuff and pushing people politically using social media. And so I still think that they're doing it. I find it hard to believe that Google, who owns YouTube and Facebook and all these other, I don't think that they're trying to move things

in a direction. No, I don't think they are. I mean, maybe Facebook has started to clean some stuff up. They've taken a step back. It's gonna take a minute. But when you said that you think there's some reason they lean into this, it's profit. I'm sure it is.

It's just profit. In some way that they're making money off of it. You've got engagement. It's creating more engagement because people are revved up. And it's just this balance between we're making massive amounts of money. Do we really need to change it for a month? Like how do you expect a company to be moral?

Like moral to any degree. Especially at that scale. Exactly. Yeah. One of the things that they said in the podcast that was extremely concerning to me was they were talking about how, um, when they go to the government for advice or not advice, but like approval on certain things that they're trying to do with AI, these private companies, they, if they say to the government that things are going to happen in a certain way and then they don't

happen in a certain way, nothing really happens. Like there's no consequences for it. But the flip side is if they say, hey, this situation's going on, like they talk to their shareholders and like, Hey, the situation's going on. We don't think it'll be that bad. Like, you know, it's not probably going to drop that much. And then it drops. They can get sued for that.

So they can get penalized for not making more money. But if they want to do any shady shit and use the government to do that and cover stuff up, there's no penalty at all. Yeah. That is completely backwards to how it should be. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it doesn't really incentivize them, right? No, not at all.

And yeah, I think there's just so many examples of that, like with social media in general, like you said, like, all these people care about is their bottom line and next quarter's profits and stuff like that. And for them to be like, hey guys, maybe we should think about this a little bit and, you know, have a have a conversation about maybe not doing this or whatever, like pushing back against it. It's like, no, that's shut down immediately because people need to make money. because people need to make money. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. I mean, that whole AI race goes into that and that's where the concerns are. That's where the peril is.

Yeah. The idea that it's really all for profit. And chat GBT has shown us that because OpenAI was supposed, it's the name is open. That's what Elon was like, I'll give you a hundred million dollars for this. And then Sam Altman was supposed, it's the name is open. That's what Elon was like, I'll give you a hundred million dollars for this. And then Sam Altman was like, no, I like Ferraris.

And he turned it private. So it's not open, it's closed. It's very controlled. And you know. It's the opposite of OpenAI. Yeah, I, Sam pisses me off because if you watch early on there was a They brought him into court and they were asking him about

Money and they were like do you have a stake in this and he's like no, it's like do you have a salary? He's like no, I don't do this for money blah blah blah And then recently I think this was maybe a year ago or so But he's like seen in some Kona seg like a four million dollar car And it's like come on bro like talk about a fucking sellout like you even try well even try to cover it up You know here's the thing a four million dollar car. Yeah, but let's say he doesn't own it and Because he's who he is and he's in the circles He's in someone just let him drive it down the street. But you know what that tells me?

He still likes that stuff. Yeah. He's still motivated by it. I don't, I don't shit on anyone for liking nice things. I get it. I don't want to drive that car down the street. I wouldn't because that's like somebody handing me a Ming vase and being like, just hold that for a second.

I mean, before I had a kid, I wouldn't even hold some of the baby. I'm like, that is too fragile and delicate and priceless. I'm not going to do it. And in that same way, I just don't desire those things. And there's nothing special about the way I spend money. But it shows that he values that. So he values, you know, status, super cause.

Like it's, that's kind of Andrew Tatey almost. Yeah, exactly. And it's a complete departure from what he was personifying himself in that court interview when he was saying like, oh, I'm not doing this for profit. I don't have a salary, blah, blah, blah. So you're saying he's a hypocrite. Complete hypocrite.

Complete hypocrite. All right. Well, that's Sean Houhan right there online saying that about a guy that has a system that can definitely search him for the rest of his life. That's all right. Also, I'm throwing my hat in and I agree. Got you back, dude.

Yeah, hell yeah. We're going down together. The robots are gonna chase us down. Yeah, I don't know if I trust him. Elon definitely doesn't and I don't follow everything Elon says, but in this case, I don't follow everything Elon says but in this case I don't think I like it I love that Elon made Grok I've been trying them all out I don't know if you mess with deep seek the

Chinese one much? The cheap one yeah I've used it a couple times I mean it's it works it works it's good mean it's it works it works looks good yeah it's fine I'm deeply nervous every time I put information in there private yeah dude yeah I know that's like you better go to the library computer don't use your own computer for that shit you you like buy a laptop tablet just to burn it afterwards. You're like, oh, OK, did it. Yeah, dude, the peril is what concerns me.

I mean, listen, ultimately, it gets to the idea of the Terminator and Skynet. Yeah. And I don't know if like those things really converge, you know, in a sense, but they're already making like the robots that can like walk around with us, do stuff, you know, yeah, let's do it at different things. How long before like the police are robots? It's not impossible to believe they could exist one day. I think at this point, we'd be naive to think that they couldn't.

Oh, yeah, no, I think it definitely could exist in our time. And especially to like just the concept of super intelligence, I think it's definitely going to happen within certainly within my lifetime. And I think it's going to happen a lot sooner than people think it's going to happen. And I'm deeply nervous that we're going to reach this point where these companies know that things are going to get out of control or not like past the point where they're like, oh, this has the potential to get out of control to where they're like, things are starting to get out of control. And then they don't do anything about it, or they keep it hush hush, or they keep it private, and they don't try and get outside help to fix

things. And then things just, yeah, turn into something that is completely detrimental to all of us. But on the flip side, I also wonder like if things work out, is the goal just to autonomize every part of our lives and make everything, like any job that you can have a robot do, replace them with a robot, like is that the motivation with making all this money and investing all of these things? Like what's the end goal

once you reach this level of intelligence, assuming you haven't destroyed yourself as well like where are we going with this well i think i think we can look at it in terms of like being super rich now or even in the past right being a king in egyptian times they they probably didn't even wipe their own ass no they probably had like the ass wiper guy. I don't know. I don't know what the hieroglyphic for that is, but They you know, it's like if you had enough money and enough power You literally did none of the things that you didn't want to do. Yeah, you know and Other than trying to keep your power, which was the one task you probably had Keep yourself alive and keep all your power because you try and give that to something else

They just take the power. Yeah, but you didn't do anything else. So weirdly it might just be this pursuit towards that It's like everybody wants to be a king or something, right? Like I look at it every time I look at my Roomba. I'm like, why? Why do I not just vacuum up real quick? I mean, it takes some time, but it's not that much. And then I think, where does it end? Would I buy a little Roomba that was on the counter in the kitchen that just

cleans the kitchen. They have them that'll cut your grass now too. They have robot mowers that will cut grass. Yeah. Yeah. And they have something they're building that can fold laundry, maybe even do your laundry soon. I mean, where, where does it end? You know, it's like, does a shower turn into like a mini car wash? You just get in there and then all the bristles start moving around and rollers just do your hair.

Maybe it's going to be like the do you ever watch Wallace and Gromit? Yeah. Remember his morning routine where he just like pulls the thing and he addresses himself. Yeah, what do they call those things? I don't know. They have a name. They have a name dude. That's what it's going to be like though. But yeah, I wonder where, what's the goal here? You know, is the goal for these companies and people running them to just acquire more

power over people? I think partially. Yeah, probably. But right now we're early enough that we are trying to build something, but I feel like a lot of the conversations

of like, why? What is it for? Why are we trying to do this? Or push the wayside? Which is why I enjoyed these two people because they asked a lot of those questions. They really brought up those hard topic questions. Well I think I think what it is is exactly what you're saying It's like it's almost like if you put it into a metaphor that everyone can understand. It's like that Wallace and Gromit device Which I'm still trying to get up is is like Where AI is going?

That device made breakfast put their their clothes on, they had one in Back to the Future too. Yeah, yeah I remember. It's the same thing like Cracks the Eggs. Yeah. And it just gets going and everyone loved it. Everyone's watching and we're like this is the greatest thing. They have one in Goonies, Pee Wee's Adventure, you know, it was in a bunch of movies back then. And it's like, yeah, automating everything. I don't have to do it. And I'm so smart that I figured out how to make it happen.

And it's the dream of what AI can be. And it's like kind of starting to happen. Yeah. Is it a problem? Now, does it free us up to do a bunch of other stuff? That might be nice, but I don't know. Global economics

still exist. You still got to pay your bills. Like, where's your value if a robot is doing everything for you? Where's your purpose also? You know, if you don't have anything to do throughout the day and you're just free to do all of the things that you can do because you're not working

like what are those things that you're actually doing is it just sitting around like a lot of people are like oh you can go out and create things and like that's that's awesome but also i know not everyone is great at creating shit you know like some people, that's not how their brain works. And so, yeah, once you replace all those jobs, like what are people supposed to do with their time? Be creative maybe. Yeah. You know, like maybe lean into jobs that they enjoy more. I mean, listen, you get the problem is you would think, Oh,

if somebody did like a lot of people say this kind of thing, somebody would just do all these other things for me, I could use my energy and time for like all this other stuff that I wanna work on or be productive. But there are plenty of people that would just use that extra time and completely blow it. They could waste a billion, billion years existing, like for sure. So it's tricky.

But you've still got to be a motivated person, a disciplined person in your own right, and have some passion, which gives you direction. That, you know, that takes time to build and having robots doing everything. Also, the machines are called Rube Goldberg machines. Okay, that's what I thought it was. That's what I thought it was. Yeah. Yeah, it was close. I was like, Jeff Goldblum? It wasn't, I wasn't close enough. Yeah, I don't know, man. I mean, listen, eventually, when I would buy like a housekeeper, I mean, listen, eventually, when I would buy like a housekeeper robot one, if it was solid enough, they could like answer the door, do basic shit, you know, just kind of like, you

know, just work around the house like a person would work there. Like you of course you would get one. You know, if you could afford it. Yeah. And it made sense for you. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. I think it would make sense for anyone that could afford it. Yeah, well it's the same reason why everyone bought washing machines and Refrigerators and all the other fancy stuff that we take for granted now new appliance. Yeah

now would you buy a Dude looking one or like a hot? Sexy look you think they're gonna look like humans of course probably a humanoid they don't have like skin yet but if they look like a hot lady or like some old English butler and you have the choice which one are you getting yeah I don't know man. Don't lie. British accent is kinda nice. No, I would get the lady. Alright, so how would you design a... I don't know. Don't be shy. I was playing Fallout 4 and the ones that they have in there, it's like set in the future.

And it's just some robot that floats around. It's like Dome like a dome shape. Yeah, it's got like a bunch of arms and stuff and it Interesting, but I think it would be something like that. I don't think they would I don't know Maybe they'd make him like humans what they already have their optimus by Tesla it looks like a person. Yeah, it looks like a person you think it's gonna be a floating trash can with multiple arms Maybe like the poor ones. You got to like, it's like a tier system. You get that. You have to pay more if you want them to look better.

Yeah. Yeah, it's just for like the poor perverts, you just get like a kind of ugly woman. Yeah. And then the richer you are, the hotter they become. You miss a payment and suddenly she's just like super ugly Yeah, it's like sorry all her hair falls out and like one of our eyes closed a little bit and just like, uh, sorry Yep I don't know the I Don't know where all this is going, but I I don't think it's bad, you know people worry about it so much It's just like I think in a hundred years. They're gonna be like were they this worried about

dishwashers or Washing machines no we weren't it was great. I Will push back on that a little bit the thing that I'm worried about is just like We know that governments are crazy hungry and for control over things. And if you look at like, I'll give you an example. So in my roommate, my roommate went to Japan and he was telling me that in Japan they have appliances that wash your clothes and it's two in one machine.

So in one machine, it washes them and dries them in one machine. You don't have to buy a separate washer and dryer. And I was thinking about that. And I was like, that's how they work in England. That's a great idea. Why don't we have that in the U S the reason we don't have that in the U S is because you make more money when you sell someone a separate washer and a separate dryer. And so I think like, especially in the U S like we're so focused on scraping every dollar from people, just working class people, that I think that it gets in the way

of making things more economical or more convenient for people. And we just prioritize profits and control over things. And so I think that if you look at the way that, like the companies that are working on this, you have like Google, Microsoft, like these are not morally justified companies. Like the things that are working on this you have like Google Microsoft like these are not morally justified companies like the things that they've been doing recently and their track record and all that stuff Doesn't point to good directions, right?

so I think it's a little bit naive to be like all these companies are gonna figure it out and then they're gonna turn good all of a sudden, you know, like I don't I Try to keep an optimistic perspective on this stuff, but just looking at the way that the world is Moving towards especially in the US. It doesn't look good for us Yeah, and I think that yeah, I just think that AI especially nowadays In recent times is just gonna be used for control. I mean they're already doing that a Lot of stuff we've talked about on the show you know, it's just examples of how they're already using it for control. I mean they're already doing that. A lot of the stuff we've talked about on the show you know is just examples of how they're already using it for control and manipulation and international conflict and things

like this. I just it seems hard for me to imagine it just all working out beautifully without some sort of massive intervention and pumping the brakes really hard on this and having a cohesive conversation about like, hey, what are we trying to do here? Where is this going? Like, how can we iron out some of the bad things that do this? How can we make this the best case scenario

for us to work together with AI? Do you think these guys are gonna be able to make any real headway? I mean, they're obviously picking up momentum. They come on rogan. People like listening to them. But I mean are they going to realistic? Like they want to put together some sort of like I don't know if it's government. They want to put together something that it's like right we need to we need to have like real legislation around this or some kind of like ethical control or Does it just continue the dialogue? I?

Hope it moves in a good direction, but as a just an everyday person. It's hard to Like I learned all this information and I'm like that's cool. That's not going in a good direction but like what am I supposed to do about this? I mean, these companies are massive organizations that are purely motivated by profit and control. And as just an everyday citizen, I mean, yeah, ideally you would need some sort of government intervention and people to go on board collectively and say, hey guys, what are we doing here? Like, let's seriously consider this, but it's hard. I mean, and like these guys are great and I love their perspective,

but there have been a lot of people that have talked about the dangers of AI for years now. And again, these conversations are great and eyeopening and interesting to talk about and really important and valuable. But if we're only going to be talking about them, that can only do so much. So I hope that they continue to do what they're doing and push the people who are actually in control to realize that we're maybe not moving in the best direction and need to reassess the way that we're doing things.

Yeah. I'm with you. That whole time I was like also looking up the washer dryer situation. Yeah, it's crazy, man. But it's a space issue. Is it? Yeah, you got to have space. Other countries don't have as much space.

Oh, is it? Oh, okay. The US ones have larger capacities. When you have larger capacities, it's better to be specific for that type of either washing or drying. Well, Americans clothes are bigger. You have to fit those double XL shirts. But hold on, hold on. The question you bring up is an important one. There's an extra step for us here and if we're talking about automation why don't they have it where it like spits the clothes into the

other machine yeah that seems like a thing that could happen yeah well it's the same thing like especially when they stack them on top of each other yeah why can't you just have a fucking door that just opens and drops it into the dryer falls in there why can't you do that dude did door that just opens and drops it into the dryer? It falls in there. Why can't you do that? Dude, did we just invent a new thing? They probably patented it and then didn't do anything with the patent. We don't want people doing this. Can't have anyone undercut us.

But it's the same, like to use another example, internet in the United States is slower. Like Wi-Fi speeds, if you get Wi--Fi even the best Wi-Fi you can like direct fiber optic cable or whatever internet companies in the US have collectively agreed not to raise speeds because you know you make more money just slowly low slowly raising the speeds rather than giving everyone all at once if you go over to Asia or some places in the West or in Europe rather, their internet speeds blow us out of the water and it's because the companies can actually compete with each other and you know just the same way that you would buy any product you know one company

makes something better the next company's like oh we got a one up this and so they're actually able to compete with each other. The US companies are not able to compete with each other or they've agreed not to compete with each other purely because of profits. Purely because they know that they can make more money if they don't raise the speeds. Because you hit a max as far as like what's the current technology can allow you to do.

But if you just slowly raise things, you can just charge people more for faster speeds. We raised the speed 10%. Meanwhile, overseas it's like three times the speed. Really? Yeah. All right. Well, this is new to me. Yeah, it's crazy. What you're saying is true. I for the sake of this conversation, I'll say that's bullshit. But also in Bozeman, you can only get fucking spectrum, I think.

Yeah. So literally there's no competition. How is there not another internet provider here? Do you have to have your own cable lines? Is that how that works? So they're the only ones that can get it? I guess so. Well, that's the thing is they have control over the market.

Like if you want to have Wi-Fi, there are only certain companies that can do it. And like, yeah, exactly. And in our area, you're down to one provider and they'll say shit like, Oh, it's the, it's the geographic location. You guys are in a valley, there's mountains everywhere. Like that's probably true, but also why are there not multiple options? You know, why is there only one fucking option? Like there's a lot of towns in the United States that have mountains.

Only had one restaurant to go to. Yeah. And they were like, it's the only thing. We can only get it here. Yeah. Biscuits and gravy or nothing. And we're like, I want a salad. Like that's not, that doesn't sound very American. I don't know how they've worked their way in, but telecommunications, like AT&T for a long time was up to a bunch of shady stuff.

They were like Pacific Bell or something was like their overarching company. And it was a lot of kind of strategic monopolizing and government pressures and all the right moves and yeah, sneaky, sneaky stuff. Yep. And there's planned obsolescence, you know, like you go to buy light bulbs and it's like, oh, this one has a 10 year lifespan. You know, like why? Oh, that's how they designed it. Didn't they early on make? they knew exactly how to make light bulbs It lasts forever, but you make more money if they go out after ten years. You have to buy more light bulbs It's so gross. There's so many things that are like that and it that's not an exclusive thing to the United States A lot of businesses do that

But it's the same mindset of like we could make things better But we make more money if they suck and I love that probably those same companies are the ones that are like, Hey, recycle your cans. Yeah. Think about the dolphins and the polar bears. And you're like, what? Wait, so I got to now rifle through my trash because you made all of my trash. Yeah. God bless. It's like Starbucks, Starbucks with their plastic straws. You know what they did? Their straws used to be plastic covered in paper and now they're paper straws

covered in plastic. It's the same amount of paper and plastic. They just reversed it. For the environment though. Yeah, it's better. For the turtles? turtles yeah it's the exact same well I support it well done and on that note yeah AI guys I don't know what to think good bad I'm optimistic it could go any direction final thoughts I would just say if you're curious about some of the stuff that they're working on and you get want to get more involved, check out their website. They have a lot of resources. You can learn more about this stuff with more solid evidence than the two of us have provided. And yeah, love it.

All right. Thanks. Thanks everyone. Later.