Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - 451 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Jesse Michels

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

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You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience podcast and pass them on to you, perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's walking dead. You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience review. What a bizarre thing we've created.

Now with your host, Adam Thorn. Might either be the worst podcast or the best one of all time. One, go. Enjoy the show. Hey guys and welcome to another episode of the Joe Rogan Experience review. This week I'm joined by Hayden. How you doing bud? Good, how are you? Not too bad, not too bad. Thanks for coming in. Thank you. I knew you'd like this one. Oh yeah. I had a feeling. We are reviewing Jesse Michael's appearance, episode 2331.

What a story this man brings forward. Jesse's a, he's the creator and a host of American Alchemy, YouTube series, filmmaker, podcast, interesting guy. Obviously a big fan of Rogan, which is cool. You know, we're getting more and more of those guests on now that like honestly have grown up with Rogan. So the influence is like, you know, a big part of why this guy got so good at doing this

is because of Joe's early UFO rants. And now we've got really smart people out there gathering incredible amounts of information. Yeah. And yeah, it's exciting. What did you know of this guy before the podcast? Honestly, I did not know anything about him before. Me too. I just did my preliminary research to see what he was into, and just from his source material

and what the internet was saying, it's right up my alley of the things that I find interesting. And I was really just shocked at his wisdom and especially his memory when coming on the podcast he's able to relay all this information in a really well-stated manner. He's sharp. He's been buying that alpha brain. Oh yeah that's gotta be it. Yeah he was pulling up facts left and right and then also relating it back to other guests that have been on Rogan I, you can tell he's like full on board with the whole sphere there. And he's definitely on my radar now.

I'm gonna be going to him for most of my updated UFO info. Kind of started off with like his personal UAP sightings. This one's always interesting to me because so often it seems like the big UFO fans have also had their experience with UFOs. Yeah. And is it one of those things where when you're looking for it and thinking about it constantly every flashing light in the sky could be something? Yeah exactly you kind of make the narrative from what's just constantly cycling in your

head so I could see that perspective but um I don't know have you had any could be something. Yeah, exactly. You kind of make the narrative from what's just constantly cycling in your head. So I could see that perspective. But I don't know, have you had any perspectives with UAPs or UFOs in your life? You know, when I was a kid, my dad used to go to a lot of festivals in England. And it would be like for Greenpeace or Glastonbury or just like somewhere in a field where a band is playing

and we'd have tents and we'd, you know, all the hippies would be out there. It was a big hippie. And there was one time I must have been I was pretty young maybe like eight, seven or eight and I was with a bunch of kids in a field and it was dark and the festival stuff was happening somewhere the parents were just drinking they were getting drunk they weren't worried about us. And we were running around and we all stopped and saw these three lights in the sky. I can't be sure of my memory now with this because it was so long ago, but I do remember that all of us were looking and we were really shocked by it. And it just slowly turned

and how we knew is the stars were disappearing. Like where the lights were connected, the three, and it was just turning. And it was pretty close to where Stonehenge is. And they often get a lot of UFO sightings there. And it just slowly turned. And then all of a sudden zipped off and didn't make any noise.

And we all ran back to the tent where our parents were. And I remember running back to the tent with these kids. We were all so excited. We were like, we saw an alien. We saw a UFO. And I was thinking to myself, wow, this is going to be amazing that we got to discover it. As soon as we tell our parents, they're going to know it's real and then they can tell everyone else. Well, I was eight. I didn't understand how information works and how quickly you're dismissed by drunk parents. Unfortunately, yeah.

And they just went, OK, great kids. If you mind just going off and playing some more. Super disappointing. And again, I just don't, I don't really know what it was You know, maybe I didn't even see it and some of the other kids told me I can't remember fair enough But still seems pretty spectacular it in my in my mind what I remember it was cool. Yeah I remember just thinking holy shit, but that's all I've had Interesting. Yeah, I haven't seen what did he say like a silver school bus? Yeah, it looked like one of those jet streams, right? Mm-hmm. Super interesting. I mean that being said though with your own experience of having seen one at a young age Do you personally believe in? just aliens in general like life on other planets I

Mean look I'm I'm inclined to believe the basic statistic that there's just so many, you know, stars and planets and galaxies out there that, I mean, it happened here, right? Of course. So there's some of that. Is it all single-celled? You know, are we like the one thing that became multicellular? Maybe. They say that was a super unlikely fluke for evolution

or whatever. Is there some weird shit going on in the sky? Yes. That too. I believe it. Are we making it? I don't know. Who knows?

Yeah. And that's what these guys get into. But it's a lot of fun to think about. Oh, seriously. Where do you sit with it? Well, like you said, statistically, I think it is highly improbable that life doesn't exist elsewhere in the universe.

But when it comes to if they have visited Earth before, it's entirely speculative. And what really got me into like the rabbit holes and the ideas that I have nowadays was the Roswell incident that I learned about in high school. And it led me down this massive rabbit hole of, you know, do aliens exist? What government cover ups look like? And ever since that day, it's really led me into learning about those stories and I find it fascinating so having someone like Jesse Michaels is it Michaels or McKells? It might be McKells actually did I say Michaels? I forget how he said I think cuz at the end he says Michaels without the A so it was spelled a bit different anyway our apologies Jesse yeah you're awesome

dude but to hear his like fascination and where his comes from, it sparks that same curiosity in me that I had when I was that age. And it's such a fascinating rabbit hole to see, do we have this technology? Have these aliens visit us before? And I'm sure we'll get into all the niche timeline stuff with the government involvement, ancient civilizations.

But man, it's a fascinating story That's been around for far longer than we come to recognize Yeah, and and the Roswell one seems like I mean that is the most famous. Oh, yeah crash story, right? I mean, they've done a really good job if there's more of covering those up, but the Roswell one was close Oh, yeah, we were close to really figuring some things out. And yeah, there's something really funky that went on there. Yeah. Really funky.

I went down to the museum there, because I used to live in New Mexico. I went to high school there. And we went down for a soccer tournament at the, they have like a military school down there. And the museum is kind of underwhelming, to be honest. They've got like a little bit of the story and then they show some pictures and news clippings and, but it kind of runs out pretty quick.

But when I went and this was back in like 98, so it was a long time ago. It's probably changed a lot now. But there were two whole rooms of just pictures of crop circles. And that was kind of like their most compelling finish to the idea of like what UFOs are and all the rest of it. And what was even more interesting for me is a lot of those circles were taken,

pictures were taken or showed up in the part of England that I was from the West. Yeah, what are the chances of that? Well, that's where they used to have a lot of sightings of those. I just thought that they were happening everywhere. Yeah, and they kind of have been but they were really localized around this area. And some of them were so elaborate so insanely like massive spiral type things that it's like yeah I could see like one circle being made by a couple of guys sure really dedicated but when you've got a

hundred overnight no way there's no way But what is the point of that? Yeah, exactly. What are you trying to tell us? It's so cryptic. What's going on? I mean, it clearly, if it's made by some either alien or UFO or a drone thing from the future or a distant

galaxy, it's trying to tell us something. But it's trying to tell us something. Oh, it has to be. But it's not doing a very good job. No, it's not spelling it out directly. Spell it out. Yeah.

If you're so advanced, our alphabet is not that hard. Yeah. This podcast is brought to you by CB Distillery. If you're still tossing and turning at night and feeling edgy during the day, let me tell you about CBD from CB Distillery. Millions are turning to their CBD for relief because it works. In fact, over 90% of customers report better sleep with CBD. And it's not just sleep. CB Distillery offers targeted formulations for just about everything. The SleepGummi is my favorite.

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you could definitely learn how to speak our language. You would imagine. Right. Like we've got a language. Yeah. So it's probably intentionally cryptic, which I mean, makes sense. So we actually do the work. I mean mean if we're just handed information that could be

Detrimental to our society it could be our own undoing so Maybe that's the point but still yeah either that or they just fuck him with us Yeah, that's it. They're like let's just put an impossible code down there never figure out see what they do right see what these little monkeys are up to and Yeah, I mean, and then there's the whole thing of like the government involvement with it all, right? This is the crossover. This is where it gets dark. Because there's a few potential possibilities, right? One, no one's really seeing anything. It's glitches on radars and a bunch of people making mistakes.

It's some government tech that's even, not even that cool, you know, it just like looks odd and we can't figure it out. Or it is some sort of UFO thing that we know nothing about. Or it's shit we've built from reverse technology and then the the collusion part gets really dark because in like

the myth world of UFOs, you know that even Jesse was talking about like we can summon them. Hmm. We have like some sort of an alliance with them. They've left packages for us, little presents for us to kind of reverse engineer. I mean, that all seems really dark. Yeah.

I don't even know what to start with. Yeah, neither do I. It's, there's so many different perspectives that you can take on each one of those topics that you mentioned. But yeah, I think the curious one, since we were talking about with Roswell, with the idea that it's technology that they sort of

gift to us to see if we can reverse engineer it, or it's like if we gave cavemen the wheel to really just jumpstart civilization at the beginning of the podcast Jesse brought up something interesting and I think Rogan kind of went into it as well But the about the Anunnaki do you know any of the story at all? Oh, yeah, like the star people Yeah, that type of thing. Yeah. Yeah That one's that one's a really interesting one to kind of go along with this story that we're talking about I forget what the hieroglyphs are called, but in a bunch of ancient civilizations They all depict this winged creature this bearded winged creature coming down holding this

That's like it looks like a purse almost and across cultures and across civilizations that are thousands of miles apart They all share similar depictions of this being. And in the hieroglyphs, it almost looks like this purse that they are giving the civilizations is knowledge that they can use to build their civilizations, whether that's for farming, crops, just the basic building blocks. So it could have been something that started with civilizations from thousands of years ago, and it's just been this continuous project to try to seed intelligence in these civilizations so they can grow at an accelerated rate. Right. So that's an interesting rabbit hole in itself Yeah, I mean what would make sense there is if they if these Beings that's cool

just had so much experience with their own evolution and that of other civilizations growing and then they realized, oh, most of these civilizations, even with intelligent brains, don't actually get very far. Right. They just never really invent anything. Yeah. I mean, think how long we will basically cave people for. Yeah, exactly. A long time. It takes something special for us to be like, oh, let's build a pyramid Yeah, or let's invent, you know, it's like oh we invented fire and we know how to hunt We pretty much just have to stay alive now. Yeah, but getting from that to a nuclear bomb Yeah, there's thousands of barriers. We probably needed a little bit of help. Right? Yeah

Yeah, isn't that the whole idea? Is it the Fermi paradox that talks about, or the great barrier theory that there's those technical, for innovation, there's these leaps that have to be made in order to get from creating fire to a nuclear bomb? So that's the whole reason why they could be doing that, is to try to get us over those barriers to maybe get out to the stars, or who knows what the end goal looks like. But those barriers, you kind of do

need a push in order to find that innovation or else it would take thousands of years. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and it makes so much sense. I mean, just with our human civilization, when we met other tribes or other groups of people, they would be trade. We would obviously give them technologies they didn't have.

It was super vital. Yeah, true. It could immediately give people, kings, like unbelievable power super vital. Yeah, it could immediately give, you know, people kings, like, unbelievable power over others. Yeah. And yeah. So, you know, this brings us to that idea. We've got the gifts, maybe, maybe now we bring in a Bob Lazar character, right? Right. Super genius dude. Huge nerd. Yeah. great guy. Great guy, yeah. And he's working in area S4, which is like in or S4 in area 51.

And a lot of the skeptics are being debunked there because more and more information proves that he was in the places that he says. Yeah. He's made some bold claims. Of course, yeah. Amazing. Right.

And, you know, he's put on this task to kind of, I think he was there to reverse engineer the propulsion system thing. Didn't get really anywhere with it. The last crew blew themselves up, and then it's passed to someone else. And he's saying, well, the problem is with that, is they compartmentalize everything so much.

Can't work together, there's no teams. However, that makes a ton of sense. It's like you've got two problems here. One, you wanna figure this out as fast as possible, bringing the smartest guys. Next problem, the more people that know, the quicker China gets all over. Exactly, yeah.

So it does make sense, but you can't have that collaboration to see the other insights. So definitely a challenge. Yeah, it's almost like you keep needing to move the bar between collaboration and secrecy. Because it's like, hey, we either, they can't just sit on it and make no gains as well.

Like that's just as stupid as trying to let too many people know. I think. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right? It's a tricky balance for sure. Well, there's talk that other countries also have some,

like China has some, Russia might. I'm pretty sure beyond that, America would have taken it. I know we've taken some stuff from Brazil, supposedly. You know, we've gone down, like, we have a lot more control over countries. So we hear about something, the Air Force goes in. It's ours now. But yeah, where does that put us?

And also, the continual question with that is, right, we've got stealth bombers. We've got the F-35 super badass. We've got Elon's rockets landing. But they're all pieces of shit compared to what they could possibly be hiding. So what are they actually doing with this technology? That's the even scarier parts of question.

Yeah, because they've been developing that technology for, what, three or four decades now. And we're just now getting AI out into the field. We have the B2 bomber. And we haven't made too many leaps since then. So imagine the technology that they have now. That one scares me. Yeah.

But I mean, I guess the idea would be, all right, we talk about the F-35, F-22, B-2 bombers, all these other incredible pieces of technology that we have developed. And we've seen the slow progression, especially through the F seriesseries fighters, like how they've got better. But it kind of makes sense to also have

this other line of vehicles that no one knows about at all, that can probably carry out missions that no one will talk about. As long as they keep it on the DL, however they need to. And it's coming from an organization that is like Really the best at keeping secrets Yeah, like that one. I still can't comprehend like I know Rogan was also expressing how he was he was questioning how they could keep

Something like that under wraps for so long But it does make sense to have technology like that really hidden. What did he say it was like two points above, or the security clearance was two points above the Manhattan project even? So. I mean, it makes sense. Makes sense. How else would you lock it down?

Also, the Manhattan project, it got leaked. That is true. Yeah. Someone managed to leak it. And again, it was because it was a race. They had to have too many people in there They couldn't keep it under wraps of course Yeah, and you know I guess the difference there is that

Imminent race was whoever made the mom first was gonna win the war right with the UFO thing. It's like They I think they can assume everyone struggling to figure this out Yeah, so they can take their time to really perfect it and make sure it's kept in that secrecy if anything leaks then That power is unmatched What do you think would happen if they just did come out and say yeah, we do have the craft, you know It's always the big question of like, you know It's almost like the main reason that they give for why the government would not tell us we all freak out and run around and scream and I would

I would agree with the freaking out perspective because it's one thing to have just let's say you're taking your classic flying saucer this thing can levitate it can move faster than the speed of sound like that's already terrifying in itself with our, I mean especially with the world events going on nowadays, having a craft like that, it changes war forever. But beyond that, I think that it inspires more fear into the institutions that we've used to construct society. At first it goes like, okay, well,

where did we get the technology for these crafts? Then that points to aliens or other life forms. And that's a whole issue in itself that destabilizes religion, which is already a pressing matter in the world today. And if you have something that says there is life elsewhere on the planets, then that undermines a lot of religion. So you're going to have people really upset with that.

And I think that's probably one of the biggest ones is how it undermines our understanding of our history and civilization and it warps our reality. So I think that would probably scare a lot of people. Yeah. What do you think? Well, I think it would create a lot of conversations like this, a lot of people down the pub going, can you fucking believe that we have aliens?

They're real, and we were making the ships. And then also the reality that tomorrow we need to go to work, we got to pay our bills, we got to clean up the trash, we got to take care of the kids. And I think stuff just keeps going. And it doesn't shock us that much. No, I would be sensitized to it by now. In the core arguments and philosophy, you know, philosophical debates of religion and the, you know,

our kind of existential existence and all the rest of it. Yeah, that dialogue's gonna change. People are gonna be questioning things left and right. But for the everyday person, you'd be surprised how many people will be like, oh, really, aliens? Okay, I'm gonna get back to my show. Yeah, exactly. And put on Love Island or whatever the heck they're watching.

Love on the Spectrum, great show. Oh yeah. Great show, by the way, shout out. Love on the Spectrum, great show. Oh yeah. Shout out. And what makes me think that though, is I remember when the New York Times, I think it was the Times, put out during COVID that the government acknowledges the UAPs exist, they don't know what they are.

It was the Commander Fravor time where they started discussing it. When I saw that, I was like, oh my God, this is gonna be people in the streets, everyone's thinking, almost nobody was, I got a few texts and life went on. That's how it usually goes, unfortunately. Maybe if one crashed into the front of the White House,

that could be a big deal. That could be interesting. What did you make about all this Thomas Townsend Brown anti-gravity stuff? That one was fascinating and really interesting. One of the ideas that stuck with me is the idea about, I forget who he quoted this, but at all times 50% of our understanding of the universe is just wrong. So with physics right now, with the problem being gravity and the standard model, how do we unify those? And having Townsend actually trying to break that and see gravity as a, it was two types of gravity, A and B of hills and wells and hills.

That's it, wells. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So really fascinating that this guy just kind of stumbled upon it without having to see the UFO technology. And then once they saw him doing this research and then he proved his experiment in a vacuum that took out all those other variables, then he started getting taken away

and all the experiments were much more hush hush. And working in the same building as some of the most well renowned physicists, there's definitely something to that. Well, there was that magazine from like the 50s where they were discussing all this, which would make sense before the government decided to say, right, nobody talks about this anymore. And that's basically physics that's taken away from everybody. It really does make you think, like, what? Yeah.

Like, holy shit. They found something so powerful, they were like, we don't discuss this. Scrubbing it away. Yeah. No one's allowed to even research this stuff. The only thing that messes up those theories is like, why don't random super smart

university kids just come up with something like that? Yeah, that's a good point. You know, maybe they just immediately take them away too. Exactly. That's like, you now work for us. You got to go. Yeah, they don't want them stumbling upon that. But they also got into that with like MIT and how they've had a dark history with when they discover technologies like that and they also get the federal funding to have students do these

research so it's probably the same thing they get taken away and they're used to the secrecy by now so they can just get under wraps much faster. Which university was Bob Lazar connected to? MIT. It was MIT. It was MIT, yeah. And they tried to, they did get rid of him on all of their records for the longest time, which is, I mean, the power that they have to do that is also kind of scary.

But then MIT did come back. I think they came back out saying that he did go there. And then some professors started recognizing him. That's, yeah. Yeah. Thank god, I mean. That's some power. Yeah.

Babel Zahra is one of the most fascinating characters in this case, especially since his story has remained so consistent over time. I mean, you don't see that with people who are lying. And I think that kind of adds the biggest credibility to his case. And we need that with something as complex and reality disrupting as this case.

So he's really like our silver bullet in trying to see how deep this case goes and the implications that it could have for us in our future. So thank God for him. I think it's important, you know, I mean, also when you say how it could shake up civilization, I think it would in terms of us looking at our past as well. I

think people would start questioning things so heavily, and no government wants that for their people. It's why they ban mushrooms. It's because we would look at the pyramids in a whole different light. And we've already seen, I don't know if you listened to the guest that was on, not so long ago on Rogan and he basically curates all the re, you know, does all the research and takes care of everything that happens around the pyramids and has done for like 20, 30 years and he's a massive gatekeeper. He controls the narrative.

His whole story is, oh, it was just builders building it, nothing else to it. It doesn't explore any other idea. It was honestly the most difficult and annoying Rogan podcast I've ever heard and even Rogan said on a... Discover the magic of Bad MGM Casino where the excitement is always on deck. Pull up a seat and check out a wide variety of table games with a live dealer! From Roulette to Blackjack, watch as a dealer hosts your table game and live chat with them throughout your experience to feel like you're actually at the casino! The excitement doesn't stop there!

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Yeah. When it comes to archaeology. History would completely change. And we'd see the ways that we've erased it in the past. He did bring up some, I was kind of curious to bring this, this is kind of a tangent. But at the end, he brought up the structures under the pyramids. Have you heard about those at all?

Yes. Yeah. Yes. That one's crazy to me. So they've used what, some kind of lidar? Yeah, it's a special type of lidar that can, it doesn't use seismic waves. So it's not as disruptive and that's a big

thing with the Egypt area because they don't want to disrupt a lot of the structures out there. Right. So this time they could actually see kilometers under the earth and it revealed these massive structures. Right, it's like spiral, multiple spiral staircases. Yes, two kilometers. On top of huge blocks that are just, none of it makes any sense. The blocks look like they're granite, perfectly square, madness. And that guy poo-pooed that, the previous Egyptian guy, I forget his name,

I do apologize, but I forget. But yeah, he poo-pooed it instantly. He was like, ah, that's nothing. Don't worry about it. Yep, didn't out for any explanations. They're not going to explore it. God, it's such a. But here's the thing. If it's there, this technology is only going to get better.

True. I mean, give it 50 years, and we'll probably have an app on our phone that can scan the ground. Exactly. You know what I mean? Yeah. And we just point the camera, and it just shows an x-ray of the whole ground.

How are they gonna cover that up? Yep, nope, then everybody has a chance to see what's really going on. I think some fun things are gonna start coming out. Imagine the Amazon that has all that thick foliage. Now we can see all of the civilizations that lie under there. Oh dude, we are finding so many too.

It's so much bigger than we thought. Oh yeah, it's fascinating. It's unbelievable Yeah, what a time to be alive and yeah comes out of it Well, you know, let's just take that obviously we have no idea what that could be for true But throw out a theory does it really build into the power plant idea? hmm, I yeah see my I The way I see are like talking about the pyramids. Yeah, yeah, with that structure.

Yeah. I personally would like to believe that the pyramids were more of a power structure. I mean, besides the divineness of the buildings, I mean, you know how it's perfectly facing north. And there's a certain ratio that if you add up all the sides, it's like the perimeter of the pyramid is the same diameter of the earth.

And it has all of those divine principles and sacred geometry. But if you look at the pyramids, especially the Great Pyramid of Giza, yeah. It doesn't have a tomb in it, right? That's what they said the pyramids were for. It was for the dead pharaohs. What it looks like is there you have the channels that go into it

and then there's that central chamber, the... I think they call it the king's chamber. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And all around the pyramid there's evidence where water was seeped in. So you could... I can't speak on this to the level of expertise that's required for it, but to create energy in large amounts, there's like two physical principles.

There's either explosions or implosions. And what they could have done with the water getting sucked into the pyramid is they create a vacuum in there. And there was another guest on Rogan who talked about this and his name is, I can't put my, was it that engineer guy? I think it was.

Yeah, he was great. Yeah. But like he, I think that's the most probable thing is that it was using that type of physics to create energy. And, you know, there's the whole like vibrations that they could have used with that. But it's lost history and technology that we don't understand well, and especially

in our classical understanding of physics and what we do for energy production right now, that's heavily gate-kept. I mean, it's what Nikola Tesla was trying to do with his experiments, especially in Colorado Springs, where he was trying to harness, I forget what level of the atmosphere it was, but it was using the same principles that Egyptians were using and

You know, I think the biggest reason why that's gate-kept is if you have energy that's free You're disrupting a lot of the economics that we have with energy right now. Well, it's the economy of the world Yeah, exactly the most money made at all is through the sale of energy Yeah, exactly. So the gatekeepers for that, you think the oil companies want us to know how to build a pyramid that makes energy? Absolutely not, no. Zero chance. No, zero shot.

And they don't want us to discover it, and they don't want us to figure any of that stuff out. Oh, yeah. What gets me is, what stuff were they powering? Now, it's so many thousands of years ago. I mean, it's so wild to think that like, Julius Caesar is like closer to us now than when the pyramids were built.

Even Cleopatra. Like that's crazy, dude. Wild. Crazy. So there's so much that we don't know and what we're missing in that story. Yeah. What do you think they would be powering?

Do you think it'd be like spacecrafts or? I don't know. I mean, okay, so there's pyramids all over the world. That people have talked about their position being like somehow weirdly connected. So it could have been a combination of things, communication, who knows? Let's get wild.

Maybe teleportation, you know, maybe it had like incredible amount of energy and it just wormholed you around the planet. Yeah. And but yeah I just I can't even imagine what it would be pairing with it. They obviously needed a shitload of power. Right to build something that massive. Yeah.hmm. Yeah. Ah. It's so fun, dude. We've lost you. It's so fun.

It's so fun. We love it. Yeah, and no wonder. No wonder someone like Jesse, like, he makes his whole job from this. Yeah. Like, I guess my whole job is this, which is talking about it. I don't have to do any research.

But if somebody was to throw me into a 40-hour-a-week career, and they were like, right, you get to pick whatever the heck you want to do and we fund it. I'm like, I'm looking for UFOs. Oh, for sure. That's number one. Yeah, you can take that so far. And it's fascinating.

Just go for it. They talked a little bit about the amnesty of UFO programs, that idea of even the US kind of talking about it, if they have been reverse engineering it, if they have been giving it to Lockheed or whoever, like just from like a legality and business standpoint, that's a huge kind of level of fraud and corruption. Of course.

However, I would think that that argument with me doesn't hold up. I mean, I'm not a lawyer. I don't know how that would work. But I think if there was an exception for anything, aliens. Yeah. It's like, what did you expect us to do?

We weren't talking about like stealing some information from another company. It's like we found aliens. Did you want us to do. We weren't talking about stealing some information from another company. It's like we fucking found aliens. Did you want us to tell everybody? Yeah. Like maybe there is a bit of forgiveness possible there. I would hope so, yeah. But it's kind of an interesting thought process too,

is like another reason why it would have stayed secret. And I guess it would have stayed secret. And you know, I guess it would suck for a defense contractor that didn't get that information. Oh, they'd be a little bit hurt. Well, you're immediately out of business. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Especially with how it works nowadays. What did you think about the, the AI discussion? And when Joe, he asked a brilliant question without all of these guys that have worked on, you know,

that know about the alien stuff, seen the hieroglyphics, like all these different pieces, has there ever been a discussion around AI? Yeah. And when he said no, that's really interesting to me. Yeah. Because it seems like if you can build that shit, you definitely have AI. Oh, by that point, yeah. And what is it doing? Yeah. Because it seems like if you can build that shit, you definitely have AI.

Oh, by that point, yeah. And what is it doing? Yeah. I thought along with that point, I thought it was interesting how they talked about the evolution with AI of the grays, how people have theorized that like, you know, as we become more domesticated, we kind of could come to that state of the grays, like, you know, skinnier appendages, the wider eyes, loss of melanin in our skin. So I think it would make sense for your classic aliens that they had this technology, and it caused them to be domesticated like that and formed like that.

But it is an interesting point. Why has AI been kept out of this conversation for so long? I mean, in the Roswell crash, or I don't know if it was the Roswell crash, but they noticed there was a lack of controls in the actual saucers. And that would make sense if you're using AI, it's just already programmed in there.

And you would need that to do intergalactic travel for all those complex calculations on the dot and on the fly. I Can't even imagine what their AI looks like at that point either. I mean it could just be simply that back in 1945 which is that when was Roswell 48 48 I Think back then they would have no concept of what AI was. Even if they turned the machine on, they'd just be like, well, that's a really smart computer. So maybe it stayed out of the narrative because

they would have given it a different name. True. But it is interesting how it hasn't really popped back in. But yeah, there would be like AI interfaces for sure. For sure. If not, maybe the grays are actually a biological drone AI. Right? So for whatever reason they make it biological.

It kind of makes sense that whoever the quote unquote aliens are, they wouldn't send themselves anyway. These missions seem dangerous, especially if you can crash. Right. So why wouldn't you send some sort of creature that you've created? Yeah, I think that makes sense kind of does I mean we're already looking Elon wants to put Send the first ships to Mars by 2027, right and he wants to send those optimus spots up there

Oh really which is wild which is exactly what you would do. Right, exactly. Why are we sending, yeah, we don't need 10 dead astronauts day one. Right. Send some robots. Yeah. You know, it's one idea that kind of got brought up when you were talking about the AI stuff with the crashes. When we think of like just the level of secrecy that was required for you know, anti-gravity and self-propulsion or exotic forms of propulsion. Obviously that technology should be kept pretty heavily, but what if they did stumble upon some form of exotic artificial intelligence or generated intelligence as well? What if they somehow figured out how to activate those boxes and then get that information from computers? Like

that would be a black project that would warrant that insane level of secrecy. Because you're talking about something that has possibly had hundreds of thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of years to have been perfected to gain the secrets of the universe. I could see that being something that is much more gate kept than the actual propulsion. And maybe another reason why it's so secretive Yeah, that could be I Don't want to think about that one Well, you know, you know that they say that like the president isn't really the most powerful guy

No, and that seems pretty clear that someone else or some other group. Yeah, that doesn't get elected It doesn't get switched out that is just in that power and kind of really can veto everything. Oh, yeah. The that the president or anyone is doing exists. Yeah, I would agree. And it's I really think very plausible. I mean, who's keeping the you know, they're not telling Trump about this. You have a solution. Obama doesn't know.

So that means there's clearances higher than what the president has held by some people. Now let's go one step further on that conspiracy theory. Back to what you're saying. They found this AI back in the 50s and they've literally just put it into a position of running everything. So even though our societies are flawed, we make mistakes, we still go to war,

the cities have issues and there's disparities, and maybe it's all part of the AIs. They basically just punched in, how do we become the most powerful country in the world, maintain it, and also, I don't know, funnel all the wealth to our families. And they go, this is what you need to do. You gotta destabilize shit, you gotta do this and this,

and every now and again, switch out a guy that you pretend is in charge, just so everyone feels like they have a bit of power. Yeah, things are under control when in reality they're not. Right. Yeah. Oh, God, that is... That make for a good movie. Oh, for sure. We're back to the Matrix. Back to the Matrix, yeah. Back to the Matrix. I need to watch The Matrix again, man.

It holds up. I love it so much. Yeah, so there we go. AI, we got UAPs, we still though, with all of these conversations, don't have anything tangible to take away. Nothing we can grasp. It just gets us excited for a bit. And like I said, we're gonna go back to work tomorrow. Oh yeah. And it's all the same.

What do you think it's gonna take for you to be completely convinced? Oh man, I think the argument just kind of always is like, I want to see it with my own two eyes and see it like flying around. But then you just become one of those quote unquote crazy people that have seen a UFO or got abducted. Yeah. If we're talking about like even trying to convince everybody, maybe just like when the

technologies released or I mean, like when the technology is released or, I mean, like nowadays everything is so falsifiable with AI, or not falsifiable, but like with VEO3 making these generated videos that look damn near like reality. They're so close. Yeah. We've lost like the one art form. I mean, videos were already prone to photoshopping and CGI,

but now we're at a point where it's indistinguishable. So we're losing the tools that allow us to properly show evidence. I wouldn't believe shit. If somebody showed me a photo, they're like, finally released, high def, up close, pictures of UFOs. I'd be like, they could have faked this. Exactly. Like, how are we gonna know?

We're not gonna know. No, so it'd have to be physically in person and seeing it. It's almost like we got so good, we can't verify anything anymore. That's even more horrifying than the UFOs. We're just losing touch with what reality is now. There we go, folks. We've lost touch with reality at the end of this podcast.

I hope you guys haven't. Check out this episode if you haven't seen it. It's fascinating. Jesse, whatever your last name is, Mitchells, Michaels, Michaela, we love you. Keep doing your work. We hope that you're back on soon. And man, I say it every time, but I think we're getting real close to getting some answers. We're gonna find out.

Thanks a lot for joining me today, Haggett. And we'll talk to you guys soon.