Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - 455 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Joe Pistone (Donnie Brasco)

Episode Date: July 11, 2025

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You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created. Now with your host, Adam Thorne. This might either be the worst podcast or the best one of all time. Two, one, go. Enjoy the show. Hey folks and welcome to another episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Review. This week we are reviewing Joe Pistone or Donnie Brasco. You may know him as Donnie Brasco. Yeah.

Joined this week, we got special guest Sean. Hello. Welcome back, Sean. Thanks for having me. Is this another example of a podcast that is cheery for you? Or did it get a bit scary? No, it was good. Great. And I understand that you watched Donnie Brasco yesterday. I did. Yeah. I watched the movie after because we listened to the podcast and They mentioned the movie and I had never heard of it And then they were like Johnny Depp and I was like, ooh, that seems interesting. When did that movie come out? I don't know when it came out, but it's like 97 I think something sometime in the I think in the 90s Yeah, yeah, I think 97 is pretty accurate, but it's supposed to have taken place in like the late 70s

I think dude if there's like good movies from the 90s that you've missed you need to go back and watch it Yeah, we made way better movies back then. That's true. A lot of new stuff is dogshit nowadays Wow, it's just CGI now. So that era of Johnny Depp is like the best. Yeah prime time prime time Johnny Yes, I'll be chinos in. He was a great actor in that. Mm hmm. He was really good. There was some there was some strong actors in that movie. Oh for sure. Yeah. I had never heard the movie before but really cool. And then obviously like after hearing his story on the podcast I was like all right this is probably a decent movie to watch. Yeah. And it was really good. Have you ever watched the movie Untouchables with Kevin Costner and Sean Connery? I think I've heard of it before. That's a must see. Yeah. You gotta go back. More gangster stuff in Chicago. Nice. It's awesome, dude. I love the gangster movies. It's one of the best of all time.

So Joe, Joe Pistone, I like how his, his real name is just as kind of mob boss sounding. Yeah. Is the Donnie Brasco one Donnie's cooler though Yeah, Joey Donnie. It's all up there. So he's a retired FBI agent who infiltrated mafia with the name Donnie Brasco from 1976 to 81 so five years deep cover Leading to over a hundred convictions. That's impressive. Very successful. Amazing that they didn't kill him afterwards or they didn't kill him

Jared. Yeah I was impressed. I guess he still has like a half million dollar bounty on his head or something. At least that's what they said in the movie. And he like at the end of the podcast too Joe was like do you ever like obviously it must have been scary after all this came out you know like you must be worried about looking over your back all the time and he was like I kind of still do to this day mmm which I mean I would be yeah yeah but nothing's happened so far no and it seems it would seem like a really lame gangster move at this point yeah it's

like don't you guys have other things to be dealing with? Yeah, you're going to go knock over some 85-year-old dude who's not even in the game anymore. It's like someone's doing it for their grandfather. Yeah. It's like what? Get over it, dude. Sorry.

You got busted. Anyway, they made a great movie, obviously. Johnny Depp. Johnny Depp stayed in good contact with him, which I think is awesome. Um, he got pretty choked up talking about his wife and his wife's last days and how much time Johnny spent with her. It says a lot about that man.

Yeah. I mean, it's easy to talk a lot of shit about these celebrities. And, uh, I think it's fun and sometimes we should, but you know, not all of them are pieces of shit Yeah Give him credit where and I think Johnny's Johnny's one of those guys like we were saying Keanu Reeves one of those guys I think there's some good deeds out there. There are yeah, there's a lot of uh, there's a lot of people who are not Cool and are just kind of like surface level individuals who are in Hollywood But those guys seem solid. And yeah, everyone I've heard ever who knew about Johnny or worked with him has

said nothing but nice things about him. So he seems like a really good dude. For sure. For sure. Yeah. Overall, what was your sense of this guy? I mean, I thought he was cool. Honestly, he was a great storyteller. We, uh, we listened to the podcast in the car and we were just like, we were super engaged because he talks a little slow sometimes, but everything he says is like really cool. And he'll like pause, move way through the sentence. You're like, Oh, I really, I can't wait to hear the end of this one. You know? So he was really, he was really good guest. And honestly, for someone who is 85 he was very well-spoken like he recalled all of the events and you know he was he was a good guest yeah and he

had humble qualities about him too yeah yeah which is really cool you know yeah his his overall like philosophy about going undercover seemed like a really good one like he was he was talking about how you know he didn't really want to kill anybody or didn't want to do anything like that. Like his whole job was to do the undercover work. He made a point that he didn't want to arrest or be involved with any of the arrests of the people he was working with. He just wanted to inform on them and then see them in court afterwards.

Yeah, he had a very go with the flow mentality as far as his undercover operations. At least, yeah, and a lot of what he said was he was like, yeah, I just was myself. I didn't try and play some act. I didn't try and be something other than myself. I just kind of acted like myself. And it sounds like that was a big reason

why he was so successful because it's surprising to me because it seemed like he had a kind of a tricky entry point because they Basically staged him as an orphan who was a thief pretty smart the way they did it though, honestly Because being an orphan they can't like go back and track his family or, you know, tie him to anyone. Back then it was a lot harder. Not have any like leverage against him, you know. Yeah. But also there's the issue of like, you know, well, who have you stole with?

And, you know, I think they set up a few of those, but he didn't really have a big track record. A lot of him building rapport and gaining that trust was like on site, on job. Yeah, his own character. Which made him very suspicious to them for some time. Yeah. Which, that's quite nerve wracking. Yeah.

Especially when you are guilty. Oh yeah. Right? Yeah, and like in the movie too, well he explained it in the podcast honestly, I think a little bit better than how they portrayed it in the movie, but they only have two hours to show it. But the way that he tried to get into the mob was pretty slow, honestly. He would just kind of go to the bars and restaurants where these people were known to be, show his face, know the bartender.

And then over time, would like come in and ask him and then like in the movie they he has like a ring that he bought from someone and then he goes to him because they know he's a jeweler that was kind of like a thing he's like yeah Johnny the jeweler and so he goes to him with the ring and he's like what do you think of this blah blah blah and he's like tells him it's fake and then he's like, what do you think of this, blah, blah, blah? And he tells him it's a fake. And then he's like, what do you mean it's a fake? And then so they go to the dude who sold him the ring,

and then he finds out for himself that it's a fake. And that is kind of like a big moment of him earning trust with the guys. But I bet the actual story itself was a lot slower than that. Sit down, talk to him a few words at first. That's a very Hollywood version of how a story could go down. But I'm sure it is something like that.

I'm sure, yeah. You just start showing some words. Slowly, over time, just start, yeah. And not seeming probably, he probably had a smart mannerism about him. Like, he didn't seem too excited about getting involved with them. But it was just like, hey, they asked me along on this job.

I said I could do it. Here I am type of thing. Yeah. And I mean, even the fact that after all the years of being in, he almost got to the point of being a made man, which is fairly rare when it's not like family. I mean, that's a huge bit of like nepotism and that's a massive promotion. Yeah terms of these guys. Yeah, and it was crazy too cuz um

Yeah, like he said in the movie too or he said in the podcast and then in the movie they show as well like when they Go to them and say hey this guy is an FBI informant at first They don't believe him they they're like no way no, this guy is an FBI informant. At first, they don't believe him. They're like, no way, no way he's an FBI informant. They think that they're trying to set him up or something. But he was just so good. They just didn't believe that he was an FBI informant.

Yeah. Which is crazy. Yeah. You would think that if you were suspicious enough, or someone said that, it's like you don't even take the risk with them you just go. Oh, well it came up So we got to just get rid of them. Yeah but I guess at that point they like, you know, they saw him as like part of the family and Didn't want to believe it or sure. Yeah a lot of that can be to for sure

You know, it's interesting so he starts off as as naval intelligence, did it for three years, then went to the FBI in Philadelphia, handling bank robberies, gambling, stolen property. So that kind of gets him an idea of that world. First undercover role, infiltrating a Jacksonville, Florida gambling house. Yeah. So getting in there. Yeah. Good bit of practice. Florida's notorious for that kind of stuff. Is that right? Back in the day and I think still even now they have so that would have been the 70s then probably yeah Even now like when I was growing up. I heard a lot about

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And expire each day after 24 hours see terms at casino.draftkings.com slash promos ends 8 24 25 at 11 59 p.m. Eastern Standard Time number one based on Elas and Kredjic 2h24 product analysis. They would have like offshore gambling rigs. I think it's legal. That's some legal loophole where as long as you're in international waters, you can gamble. So they have these. So you just go out on boats.

Yeah, they have these boats and people go on there and then they take them out to where you can gamble and then they gamble and then come back and stuff like that. Yeah, I think they still do that nowadays. But yeah, I mean, gambling back then was notorious. And I think at the time, that was when the South Florida Miami area was really kind of taken off as far as people going there to vacation

and there being a lot of money and stuff like that, I think was really kind of kicking up back then. And yeah, I bet that there was a lot of people coming from New York or a lot of these big cities mob guys who saw it as Potential places to work and make money. Yeah He talked briefly about they almost put him in charge of running the rackets in Vegas, too. Yeah, I mean that's a huge Promotion like that's a massive money scheme over there. Oh, yeah. Yeah,. I mean that's a huge promotion. Like that's a massive money scheme over there. Oh yeah. Yeah and I mean they, I don't know about this specific mob but in general like the mob had a huge hand in building Vegas. Yeah. And now the corporate mob runs it. Yep. They just

probably kill less people. Or they do it more secretly. Yeah, it's just equally as corrupt. They use drones now. They throw it up. Yeah. It's legal murder now. Yeah. They just have the government do it. Yeah. So, you know, one thing I really liked about it, just kind of his breakdown and his stories is, you know, he obviously had like a fascination with the mob culture and mob life.

And it wasn't so much that he was like playing a character like you said, I mean, his quote was being oneself is crucial for survival in high stakes environments, which makes sense because when you're very nervous, like it's hard then to act, right? It's like I've just got to be me right now. Yeah. Because this is terrifying. Yeah. And if you're trying to play the role of two characters, it's so easy to get caught up on yourself and accidentally slip up and stuff. But if you're just one dude all the time, you know, you, you't have to change it all. Yeah, and and he also Seemed like he did have a lot of luck on his side. Like this is this is the hard thing about hearing his story It's like I don't think this

encourages anyone to want to go do this Because even though it sounds exciting. It's like this Wow secret agent glamorous life. I mean There were multiple stories That he told where he could have ended up dead. Oh, yeah Yeah, and I mean he kind of knew that too like, you know he him and Joe were talking about how it's a struggle with a lot of the undercover guys because They get in that life and then they either you know end up liking it or just get used to it or whatever it is but for him it was just a it was just

his job and he was really able to kind of separate himself but he said like you know it's not worth it you know every day you wake up and you're like shit am I gonna get whacked today am I gonna get caught by the cops today like just that fear every day waking up having that over your shoulders was, he did not like that. And understandable. I mean, yeah, that's, that's not a very peaceful way to live. But you know, but I think that probably actually fit that lifestyle because I'm sure a lot of those mob guys felt like that anyway. Oh yeah. And they had grown up kind of being that way. And that was one of the things that he said too,

is like he didn't necessarily grow up in like a crime, like in the scene himself, but he was around it. He understood the way like the streets work and he had a pretty good intuitive sense of like the culture of things and you know, like the respect and etiquette and stuff like that. Yeah. I mean, you would have to, like, he talked about it with, um, uh, that one guy was talking shit to him. They went to a restaurant. The guy was, I think not a made man,

but he was super rude to the waitress and Don Donnie, Joe, called him out on it, was like, hey, chill out, she's doing her best. And there was a lot of yelling back and forth, and he knew he had to fight him. Because otherwise they would think he's soft. So there's like, knowing those points of etiquette. Yeah, or he said one time too, they were, I think they were in, this was after like the whole story of the movie, like his later

days, but I guess same kind of thing. He was in a restaurant environment or something and the dude just kept interrupting him. And so he's like, Hey, how come the beginning of your sentence is always start in the middle of mine and like called him out on it. But it was like, yeah, he's like, yeah, I'm a mob guy. Like I can't just let him walk over me like that. Sure. It would have been out of character to allow that.

Yeah. So he called him out and like, you know, the guy was OK with it. He was like, I'm sorry. You know, my bad. But it's like those kinds of things, you know? Yeah. You got to stay to the character.

It makes, yeah, it makes sense. I mean, they want to see that type of strength in leadership. Yeah. If you don't have it, they'd be like that type of strength in leadership. Yeah. If you don't have it, they'd be like, well, wait a second. This doesn't line up with being that guy. In the same way is when the made man that he kind of fell out with, he basically had to let him kick his ass. Yeah.

And he couldn't fight back because you don't you don't fuck with made men. No. No. If good fellas has taught me anything, you don't you don't fuck with made men. No No, if good fellas has taught me anything, yeah, you don't you don't do that Which is such a wild thing like just the whole culture of it And it's it's so interesting because it seemed like it was unstoppable. They were so infiltrated into politics and the world at large and Somehow the world at large and somehow over the years,

I mean, like he's saying, they still exist but in a completely different way. And I'm sure there's people out there still involved in this type of activity, but nowhere the control that they had. They were really running things for a long time. That's a scary organization to fall out with. Yeah.

Yeah, and it was all kind of self-regulating in a way. It was just kind of up to the code of ethics. And guys would, obviously they wanted to keep making money, and sometimes they got greedy, but it was all, it was just a business, and they were just continuing the way the business went. Yeah, it would be interesting. I would be interesting to learn more about how all that kind of stuff fell apart, at least in like the mainstream side of things. I mean, I'm sure there's still crime activities that go behind go on behind closed doors.

But like the public eye of seeing that, you know, like all these mob guys being out in public and know all that stuff. I wonder how that kind of fell apart. Yeah. I'd be an interesting story. Who knows? Maybe it was like how they really dealt with the gangs in LA, you know, the Bloods and the Crips and their stronghold over these different streets and environments.

I mean, that was going on pretty heavily into the 90s. Yeah. So that's only fairly recently that they've been able to put pressure and disband and break it all up. I mean yeah these things are fairly recent. Yeah. Been happening in that way. Let's talk about some of the characters in there. Great names. Lefty. Lefty, yeah. Sonny black. Yeah. And then who's the other one? Tony mirror. Um, he was a bit volatile. It sounded a bit scary, dude. Do you think that, I mean, look, I think it's only natural if you're kind of working and hanging with these people

for a long time, especially in this kind of, and hanging with these people for a long time Especially in this kind of in a way intimate environment like you're doing a very specific thing. Everyone's on their game like You know Do you think that? he became Close to them in a sense the kind of Potentially feel bad when they got taken down. Maybe not Tony. I think he knew Tony was insane. Yeah, I don't know. That's a good question because you have to imagine working with these guys for years you have to develop some sort of a

relationship even if it's based on like, you know, I'm playing a character or whatever, you know. You hang out with them all the time. For sure. Like he was saying, yeah, you know, you'd shoot the shit and fuck with each other and you know You kind of develop a bond. But yeah, I wonder how that was especially towards the end because like you have to know like This podcast is brought to you by CB distillery If you're still tossing and turning at night and feeling edgy during the day Let me tell you about CBD from CB Distillery millions are turning to their CBD for relief because it

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But like, you know, still you're, you're not that relationship is over. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I wonder, that must've been tough. I think on the flip side too. And I think Tony, Tony was the guy that he, that Donnie always wanted to be at arm's length away from yeah it was like that guy would just stab you for no reason at any point yeah it's like imagine being around a person like that that volatile it's terrifying that's not good and also knowing the whole time oh

I'm putting you away bitch yeah that Yeah, that's going to be crazy. For this. Yeah, and I wonder too, I would be interested, he's working with these people for years. And for the most part, he's just kind of doing his own thing. Yeah, he's reporting back and stuff like that. But you have to wonder, does he know about what the plan is to get them like taken like, you know,

the whole boat incident they hire. They have like an FBI boat that they do because they're trying to make this guy that down in Miami seem like he's like, you know, big name or whatever. And so the FBI pays for this boat and all this stuff. And like, yeah, it's kind of crazy because you have to wonder like, are they going to figure out or like, you know, yeah, it's just wild. I'm sorry. I kind of lost my train of thought on that one. But no, but I mean, look, he would have known what to look for. Like how to, he knows how to build a case.

That's really important. Yeah. for. Like how did he knows how to build a case. That's really important. Because if you weren't trained to know that well, you might think certain things are a big deal and Oh, this is, we can prosecute them for this. And they're like, nah, that'd get thrown out. That's not important at all. We need to find out who they're talking to, who the next thing is, who the next big drug pile, where that's coming from. It's like that, the whole picture of the story needs to be put together. And I think that is where he was.

So he knew, and I, I, I, did he say he just had like one handler? So like almost nobody knew. You would have just like one person that he would report to. And through that, it's probably like, okay, this is what we need next. This is what you need to focus on. We can't move forward without this piece of information. You know, the case is about 70% put together. So he's probably monitoring that as he goes,

but mostly just doing his thing each day. You know, he has to just almost wait for the information to come to him while just being around it and hoping somehow he's involved. Yeah. Otherwise, if he's over there asking, like, hey, where did you guys get all this from? Yeah.

OK, Donnie. It's a little suspicious. Well, and too, like, you got to play the character the whole time. Like, when they get arrested in Florida, like, he has to actually get arrested and like not be like, Hey guys, I'm an FBI agent. Like blah, blah, blah.

You know, like which is kind of wild if you think about it, because if he just has the one handler, like there's probably a bit going on in the back of his mind where they're like, where he's like, maybe they just forget, cut ties. Maybe they're like, nah, we're not going to mess with that. At some point in his process of going to jail and stuff, like it was sort of a point where he's like, oh, shit, if I don't mention it now,

I'm actually going to be in jail. They give him 10 years. He's like, all right, I'm going to give it six months, but somebody better be coming for you. Yeah, exactly. Then he just sounds like some lunatic in jail that's like, I'm an FBI informant. Yeah. All right. All right, Donnie, sit down. Eat your mac and cheese. Relax. Yeah, terrifying stuff. Couple of close calls he had, I think. They showed one in the movie that he didn't mention in the podcast when they go to the

Japanese restaurant. And it's like a nice fancy fancy one and so they want you to like take off your shoes and you know do the traditional Japanese things. But he has his recorder and his boot and so he can't take off his shoes and he knows that but none of the other guys do obviously and so he has to come up with an excuse of like why he Won't take off his shoes. My feet stink. No his excuse was he's actually Way worse than that. He was like, yeah My my dad was in like World War two and got killed in Okinawa or whatever and so he just like doesn't like Japanese people and so he like refuses to take him off and then

Everybody else is like alright Well, I guess we're keeping our shoes on so they like go to put back their shoes on and then the waiter dude The Japanese guy is like obviously upset because he's like come on guys. This is a tradition like blah blah blah And then they're like now we're not doing it And then he like he pushed keeps pushing them. And then they beat the shit out of him in the back of the room, because they didn't want to take their shoes off. But it was like, dude, if they made him take his shoes off,

they would have clearly seen his tape recorder, and he would have been fucked. I don't know how accurate that is. But talk about keeping it together. Whether that was accurate or not. Coming up with that on the spot is crazy. Yeah. Whether that one, that particular story

was accurate or not, again, it looks great for Hollywood movies. But I'm sure things similar, maybe less glamorous, but similar happened. And yeah, you got to be on your toes. I mean, this is also why he said he didn't wear a wire often. Yeah. It was only for when they really needed that.

And here's the thing, too. It's like, back then, they just kind of had to throw their, potentially throw their agents to the walls like that. Because nowadays, they would have just come in and done a service on the smoke detectors and just stuck a mic in there. Or just use your phone, yeah. Exactly.

I don't think people wear wires anymore. Yeah, probably not. That's a rough day. When you're wired up, you've got to be 40% shitting yourself. Yeah, that's got to be nerve wracking. Would not like that at all. And look, it's very unfortunate that person in that restaurant got beaten up, but better than Donnie being killed.

Yeah, exactly. So sacrificed. And, you know, my heart goes out to that guy. He's a hero. He's a hero. He doesn't even know. American hero. Yeah, right there. Yeah. Real shame. He has to like his excuse was I have to pretend I'm a bit racist He needed like a like a conclusive reason why he wasn't gonna take his shoes off and so I guess Playing with the mob guys emotions. He was like, yeah, it's like out of I like don't respect Japanese people

or yeah it was like some sort of pride and then they were like alright we can get on board with this you know that's right up our alley and then they back him up so yeah it's just everyone against the poor Japanese guy yeah yeah and I mean he said he had that other close call in the airport where they're like about to go to Miami and some US prosecutor comes up to him and it's like hey Johnny like, like using his real name and shit. And then he asked to clock him because he's like, I don't know what to do with this. So he clocks him and then he like walks off, blah, blah, blah. The other dude like goes to the guy who's down. He's like, hey, don't fuck this up. Like we're doing some shit here. And then they ask him like, why'd you clock that dude? And he was like, yeah, he's trying to touch my dick

Yeah, thank god that lawyer was smart enough to be like oh shit I fucked up yeah I fucked up Yeah, I mean that seems like a sloppy move though because if he knew the type of work that he was in as Well, I mean, you know, you know a lawyer is a bit more switched on than that. No, I mean, I don't know. Yeah, because I guess it depends how they met. He could have even not even known that the dude was an undercover. He could just know him from the FBI. Like maybe you see them in court or something like that, you know, and just not even because I bet like, you know, you probably don't go around telling a lot of people, even in your own line of work, that you're an undercover guy. The less people who know, probably

the better for your own sake. That makes sense. So yeah, I could totally see. I could totally see that happening. Yeah, close call, though, that one. Yeah, yeah. Do you think you would have thought of that? Hell no.

I would have froze, yeah. No, but in the movie he like the, uh, he's with the other dude who's like the special agent from Florida or whatever. And he, the other dude notices him and then, um, Donnie's like, I got it. I got this. He's like, relax. I got this. And then I guess he comes up with that in his head. Works really well though. Yeah. Not bad. Another thing that he kind of went over was like,

you know, it was like the constant threats of that lifestyle. Like he had to refuse a contract kill because he had to stay ethical. Also, I don't think that you get kind of pardoned for that either, whether you're undercover or not. I'm pretty sure you don't get to kill people. No. So, um, yeah, that one's tough too. You know, you're an undercover guy.

You're making it pretty good with the mob and then they're like, Hey, can you go knock this guy? Saying that though, he was a thief, right? He was the, he, he could do the safes and break into places. I mean, does everyone have to be a killer? I think even they would understand, look, some people, like sure, you're fight, you're back everyone up, but you know, straight up murder. I think in those scenarios, a lot of it is like a trust building exercise. You know, it's like, hey, if you want to, you want to become a maid guy, you know, you want to

be in with us, you got to earn your stripes and go whack a couple dudes. Yeah, it's probably a really effective way to find out if someone's an undercover cop because they're not likely to do it. Yeah, and I mean, yeah, that's kind of the way that it unfortunately works a lot of times with gangs is like you want to prove yourself, you got to go kill somebody. What Joe did ask him, you've probably seen some people get killed right and he was like let's change the subject. Yeah, he probably asked. He didn't touch that shit. Well in the movie he does I mean there's like that one scene where there's like a shift in power or whatever and guys are about to go in they think they're gonna get

whacked but then they end up whacking the other guys blah blah blah but I mean he was he was in the car for that, but he saw the aftermath, I guess, in the movie. But I mean, yeah, you have to imagine, I mean, even like in five years, he saw some shit. Oh yeah. Even like just some dude, some idiot walking down the street, you know, says something wrong to someone and you just like smack and beat the shit out of them. Like that must have happened a lot. Oh, yeah. See that, and then there's nothing you can do about it. You just got to walk on.

Laugh. They require you to pretend you enjoyed it somehow. You're like, oh, god, this is rough. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, I think he did some really smart things. He said he didn't drink. Maybe have a glass of wine.

People would give him some grief about it. He's like, I just don't like it. Yeah. You know, and to be fair, there's always been people like that, but it just like not into it and you don't, you don't really think about it. Like it isn't that unusual to see. And especially refusing drugs, you know, like when he slapped that guy in Miami that was like, here, do some Co. He's like, don't ever give me that shit. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there are, you know, tough guys can do that, too.

And it's not so unusual. But it's a really smart move because that's a quick way to go off the rails, make some big mistakes. Yeah, or just get sloppy. You know? Yeah, I could totally see that. Yeah, I think, and that was one of the things that he was saying that a lot of the undercover, young undercover guys nowadays go wrong with is that they think that you need to do that to like gain their trust or, you know, be

in with them is that you have to participate in drugs and alcohol and all that stuff as a some way to like kind of prove yourself. But he's like, no, you just got to be yourself. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I think it helped him too that he was never really an alcohol guy. He's never really into drugs at all.

Like I imagine if you're even someone who likes a drink every now and then, you know, like working with the mob, you're just always around alcohol. And so it's probably pretty tough. But having like a zero tolerance, no, I'm not interested, is probably the best way to navigate that. Yeah. And you know what you can, you can nurse a beer or a whiskey.

Like these, even when you're around people drinking, unless it's the evening and you're like, you're getting on it. But if it's just like daytime stuff, you just popped over to somewhere, even if someone that you're with is likely to have four or five, like they're a bigger drinker and they're just like throwing them down, having fun, you can nurse a drink through most of that. You really can.

So there's a process to where it just doesn't look that unusual. It's not like he's asking for NA beers. He's like still having a sip. Yeah, yeah. People just don't even notice. They don't notice how slow it is. What was that bit where he said he had to go to court and he,

it was on tape that he made some gesture about 44 nipples. It's like 22 women somewhere. There was some sign that said like, yeah, it was like a strip club that said like 22 women or whatever it is. And so he made a joke like 44 nipples and then in court they're like, yeah, it was like a strip club that said like 22 women or whatever it is. And so he made a joke like 44 nipples and then in court they're like, what the hell? But what I didn't get, like you're undercover. Yeah. Be like, you got to watch every word that you like.

Well, I guess they were questioning his character at the time. But if that was the worst slip up he ever had and all of his years undercover, I think he did a pretty good job. I think so too. One nipple joke I think we can forgive. I think it's tough to be undercover for five years with a mob and also sound like you're at church. Yeah. Or talking to your grandma.

Like of course you're going to say some wacky things. I think maybe what they were trying to figure out there is like, is he like encouraging them to break laws or like be more unethical? Who knows? And court stuff is always bullshit, dude. They pull out anything they can like throw you off and make you feel uncomfortable. It's just kind of like, whatever. Yeah. So basically the wrap up to this is, um, everyone starts to get arrested, he's testifying to the trials, leads to a lot of convictions. Then there's that half a million dollar hit contract out on him, which even he said he's

surprised would ever be paid because these mob guys aren't looking to pay their own money. Yeah, half a million's a lot, especially back then. Yeah, and I guess there was something with the FBI or someone in the government was like reaching out to the families and being like, hey, don't don't do that one. You know, there was some sort of other discouragement. Because you know, there's always a little bit of an agreement between the two yeah they're like hey you can do some of this but not all of this yeah type of thing and i think too um i have to imagine that back in that days like you know there's a difference between just like whacking some dude on the street who you know was either you know trying to stiff you or maybe

disrespect you or whatever it is versus like going after a narc like that's a pretty big escalation and so FBI would be pissed yeah they would be very upset and so you don't really you don't really need them going after you it wasn't worth it yeah but he yeah he was like ain't no way no one's gonna pay half a billion for that shit like hey they're not doing it yeah he said basically the mob decline after this was like younger generations were less loyal due to drugs, informants, and eroded ties with law and politics. So they had a lot of people on their payroll before,

and it just started to drop off. And the less of a hold you have, the harder it is to make the decisions. And something is connected to like the corporate world, really having the bigger hold in those areas. And, you know, in a lot of ways, some of those corporations are kind of like the new the new mob. Boeing. Boeing. Yeah, we heard of all the whistleblowers they've knocked off?

Oh yeah. That is hilarious. Allegedly. Allegedly. We can't afford a Boeing lawsuit. Go easy. Go easy. I'm still gonna be flying in that plane. Yeah, so that kind of like eroded it. Obviously the holdover Vegas is like I don't even know if like there's really any mob or much mob activity at all going on out there now Yeah, I'm not sure Maybe a little bit. Maybe I mean look wherever there's money. There might be a little bit Yeah, well, I mean nowadays if you think of like the like modern version of like the crime things, you know, you would think of like the drugs coming out of South America and like the cartels and stuff like that. Like, that's kind of the best do example of that. I mean, obviously, those things are in the United States making money, you know,

selling drugs and things. But I don't it's not the same. It's kind of like the cartel now. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think like maybe in their own countries, they have more of a stronghold over like politicians and stuff like that. And maybe they do in the US, but it doesn't seem like it's nearly the same level of control as what those mob guys had back in, you know, back in the day.

Like, I think I was listening to a old Rogan episode where maybe Joey Diaz was talking about the mob or someone else, but they were saying like, yeah, back in the day, like, they owned like 2% of Vegas, like any business or building, like 2% of your income went to the mob. No shit. Like every month. Yeah. Yeah. That's significant. Which is a lot. Oh, yeah. For Vegas. Yeah. But I don't think it's, I don't think it's nearly the same. Yeah. Imagine that job. I don't think it's nearly the same, surely. I mean, all of these big businesses

would have wanted to cut ties just to save their own money and not have to worry about the threat. But I'm sure there's still some of that stuff going on. Yeah, maybe in a different way. It's like the government steps in, and they're like, we'll protect you, but it's going to cost you 2%. And also, you don't have a choice.

You go to jail. Yeah. You're like, ah, I see. I see what you're doing. All right. Yeah. I see what you're doing. But they just don't have, you know, Italian names anymore. They just work for the FBI. It's just John. I mean, if you think about it, the FBI would have learned a lot from this. Oh yeah. You know, they're like, Hey, we want to get some of that money too. Everyone's after it. Oh yeah. You know, they're like hey we want to get some of that money too. Everyone's after it. Oh yeah. Anyway, crazy stuff, crazy story, wild guy. If you haven't seen the movie go out and watch it, Donnie Brasco, it's excellent.

Sean obviously liked it. Yeah, it's a good movie. The podcast was good too. We got to get him watching more 90s movies, get him up to date. Yeah. Some of the classics out there. I have a list. Unforgiven. It's next. And it really anything with Sean Connery. Oh yeah, he was great. He's the best. I love all the old Bond movies with him. He was the best James Bond. I think that's very true. Yeah. You know, Daniel Craig was a close second. Yeah, but he's good. We'll see who they get next. They keep talking about really mixing it up. Yeah. Like, I don't know how Hollywood that's going to get, but, but we'll find out. But anyway, thanks for joining get next. They keep talking about really mixing it up. Yeah. Like, I don't know how

Hollywood that's gonna get, but we'll find out. But anyway, thanks for joining me, Sean, and for everybody listening. Yeah, thanks for the episode. We will talk to you next time.