Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - 484 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Michael P. Masters

Episode Date: December 31, 2025

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What a bizarre thing we've created. Now with your host, Adam Thorn. This might be the worst podcast or the best one a whole time. One, go. Enjoy the show. Hey guys, and welcome to another episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Review. I'm Adam, and we have Brandon. Brandon.

Brandon. Today, we are reviewing Michael P. Masters, another UFO, Alien Z-type show. I can't get enough of these right now. Sometimes with Rogan, he has, like, a stream of maybe comedian. on or a stream of philosophers or a stream of who knows politicians and immediately within like four of them i'm like please no more i just immediately start to get bored of kind of just not mixing it up and that variety i think i could do a month solid of UFO i don't know about you me too

there's adam there's only so many people who work for peter teal and i feel like we're at the end of the line now and hearing these episodes especially since the age of disclosure documentary is out is just really great and i feel like joe is helping build the momentum here and create this snowball effect where i see in the future a lot more people coming forward with interesting information and like that interview we did last week I believe that came out. I feel like people are becoming more comfortable to talk about this stuff. Michael even said that this concept of time travelers, of that aliens are time traveling humans,

you would have been thrown in a loony bit for having that idea. Now it's something where people are saying, you know what, you kind of do have a point. There are a lot of possibilities there. and I think that's a major breakthrough. I really do. I thought this episode was excellent. Everything about it I loved. I don't think there was one point where I felt like there was a dip.

I was engaged the entire time. Just a banger episode. It felt like an OG Joe Rogan episode, which is fitting because you did the OG intro of this podcast. I feel like this is. this is a golden episode. I couldn't agree more. Absolutely killer. Yeah, exactly.

I couldn't agree more. It just seems. And also, how good was Masters on this? Like, I can't believe I haven't heard of this guy before. I could listen to that guy all day. He just...

Social. Yeah. I mean, smart, obviously. I mean, he's a professor. But he doesn't talk like that. He talks way more like a podcast or a TEDx guy. Or like AMS. ASMR, you know, where it's like, oh, this is like nice to listen to. Yeah, he was just chill. He seemed

kind of like a very intelligent stoner. Sure. It seems like the kind of voice that you would hear say the things coming out of his mouth. You know what I mean? If someone you would smoke with in a circle who would tell you, you know, aliens are actually time traveling humans and you're like, you know what, I'm two joints in. I believe you. Right. That's what it felt like. Well, and what I love about what you're saying is you know he's he works at a university and there was a time and there probably still is but there was you know not that long ago where even bringing up anything like this discredits you immediately and the way he spoke through this entire podcast it doesn't sound like he's worried about being discredited at all and it doesn't sound like he's going to be I think

he's only built massive favor just by being that honest, throwing his ideas out. I mean, he's spitballing in in every direction. He's open to anything. I love that. Me too. Me too. It was nothing close to rambling. It really wasn't. Everything he said was really intelligent. He talked facts. Anything with speculation behind it, he explored that side as well. Personally, I think this is just an insane concept that I really like thought of maybe a couple times, but aliens and everything surrounding the UFO movement right now is already such a handful where this concept just adds like 20 tons of weight onto everything we're talking about now. And to get into it a little bit with the age of disclosure documentary out now and then adding the context of this

I think it's it's crazy because I think this is even more terrifying because the whole idea of the government back engineering UFOs and there's almost this space race in a sense of getting these UFOs now put that in the context that they're time machines what does that mean monkeys with time machines apes with time machines it's just crazy to think if he is right if he is accurate that you know Donald Trump has a time machine right right right seriously like what is this is really turning into back to the future too yeah it really is well thank goodness that was a great movie but i mean he's look what's different about this and we were talking about it briefly before the podcast is look i always love that show ancient aliens

it was hilarious and wild and just wacky and the people that they had on what was the guy's name giovanni whatever with the wacky hair something like great guy okay but at the end of the day he had like a master's degree in nutrition or something and just also side hobby loved you know looking into aliens so it was in a way it's easy to kind of discredit those kind of pseudo-scientisty alienie explorer people it's like well yeah okay you've got some neat ideas I like your stories you're very enthusiastic but now we have biological anthropologists from Montana Technical University that are legit and people respect that have a three-hour legit dissertation with Rogan about why this stuff is very, very real and they are sure it is.

I don't know how much more we would need to kind of add validity to this whole thing. It's like, how much more? and then back to the time traveling thing that's that's a question i wanted to throw to you right let's forget for a second that trump may have a freaking time traveling machine that is something but what do you think if you have to take a guess are they coming from a long way away from different planets and they just can you know traverse space or is it this kind of future human time traveling thing. I mean, they're all wacky, if you think about it. They're all kind of crazy ideas. But this one is even more bananas. And I'm kind of getting on board with it.

I want to believe, you know, I'm not entirely sold. But at the same time, I'm not going to sit here and say it's impossible. Because it makes a lot of sense. Every point he made. I wasn't sitting there like well that's bullshit I was thinking fuck it kind of has a point you know it makes sense it makes sense that's what humans would look like that's what they would evolve into these genderless skinny everything everyone looks the same now he was saying that a possibility is that they come back in time because they're having issues with fertility, which is something we're already seeing now, which they talk about on the podcast. But my issue with this whole thing, which I wish they explored a little more, is the whole paradox effect of all this. And they mention it briefly, but you've heard of that whole thing where it's like, if you go back in time, you shouldn't, you should never step on a butterfly. Right. You know? And now apparently it's okay to come inside one. I don't I don't get

how there's no ripple effects and how this doesn't fuck up any kind of timeline. Maybe I've seen too many time traveling movies, but I just don't see it as you go back in time and you can just fuck around and you can just like be in a modded GTA server where you have a UFO and it's just like I just I can't see it being so like cut and dry of oh you just go back in time and now you're in the past and there's going to be no repercussions you can abduct people and scar them for life take their sperm or whatever and then bring it to the future there's so much of that to me that doesn't sell me. But at the same time, it's like how do you even approach a topic like that?

I feel like we're not evolved enough to even like Michael was talking about the whole idea of how humans would eventually approach time travel. You know what I mean? When it comes to, which is insane what he was describing, where it's combining general relativity and special relativity and orienting light cones to the past and rotating them really fast. That's how you're saying that potentially how aliens went back in time, humans went back in time. But it's just such an overload of information where I just have to put my hands up and say, we'll see what happens. That's how I feel about this whole thing.

Yeah. Well, I mean, it puts us in a tough spot because it's like, we just. literally went from five years ago this being only something that cooks followed that are just you know supposedly nuts and it's all just bullshit and we've imagined it to all of a sudden this seems like oh all those UFO people were right all along and also there's time travel or intercellar space stuff going on and it's been happening for hundreds of thousands of years and within five years we have to be able to wrap our heads around it of course we're not able to catch up one question though with the time travel thing did he talk about them being able or the

idea of it being that they can go back into the future i'm not sure if they touched on that they might have but i assumed it would just be the same thing they did before where you just aim the light cones into the future, which is just even crazy saying. I think to your point. Is the idea then you go back in time, make a change, and then you go forward, and then you go into the forward future of the change that you made.

So you don't really go back to where you came from. Because they're obviously trying to change something. That would be the whole point of it, right? Yeah, I think. it makes a lot of sense that it would be a reproductive reason because we're already seeing that now, like I was saying, because I don't see why else, you know, it's not like we live in a utopia right now. Yeah, but also, they were even talking about it in the episode where it's like, well, why don't

they come back and just fix the environment, do all that? Well, it's like, well, maybe we're supposed to figure it out. But wouldn't you, it's kind of the whole idea? Wouldn't you think that they, I mean, we have 3D printers now. Can't they just 3D print life forms if you're that advanced? What's this reproductive issue? Can you 3D print DNA in the future? Yeah, but maybe that's, I don't know, I don't know, maybe they need something to go off of.

That's good point. That's such a crazy topic to discuss. like there's so many layers to that I think it's it's like yeah you can create something from matter I guess but I feel like when it comes to like genetics and when it comes to reproductive like sperm I don't know like you can make a baby in a lab and we can kind of do that right now right but you can't make like a sperm in a lab how would that work yeah like it has to be like you Like, I feel like if humans can't reproduce in the future, that if they're having that problem, the last resort seems to be, okay, let's go in the past to when we didn't have that problem and get a sperm sample and duplicate it pretty much, clone it potentially. That's a path I see them taking.

It seems like, like, I don't know, you know, it's just, it's such a crazy concept we're talking about. Oh, it's madness. This is fucking wild. But here's the thing. We're here to review the episode. So it's not you and me just spitballing these ideas because, yeah, they're crazy. We wouldn't think of it. This was laid out in front of us and we have to sit there for three hours and try and make sense of what we've just heard to the best of our ability, or at least have some fun trying to do it. I would say this. That's what made this episode so great.

If they are super advanced and then all of a sudden cannot breed more, surely it would be way to just figure out a way to clone things or make some other life than it is to create a freaking time traveling machine and go back in time I mean it sounds like you are messing with all sorts of stuff when you start time traveling

potentially not we've seen these movies it seems like it isn't we've seen the movies we've seen the movies but it seems like you can just go in the past fuck a monkey and then you're chilling like we're seeing statues and we can

get into the whole alien body which seems to be a hybrid. Oh, yeah. Right? Let's talk about it. Peru. But it seems like it's okay. Like there's even statues of like that seems to be people having sex with beings who look weirdly alien with the elongated heads, big eyes, skinny bodies.

It's just, I don't know, maybe it's aliens on spring break or something and they stole their parents' time machine. I mean, who knows? I don't know. That's what I'm saying. I don't know. And that's what makes this concept and this whole idea so much fun, like just talking about. Yeah, the Peru aliens is a tricky one because they've scanned them now, right? And they, it shows bones and, I mean, it's very complicated inside.

So either it is, either it is the most. complicated paper mashay mold ever put together for no reason and put in a cave or it's like actually a very strange creature mummy thing and and also here's the thing if the governments around the world or the u.s has had aliens and alien technology for 80 years that were trying to reverse engineer and then some people in a Peruvian cave find these things, you would think that they would just go take him right away. So how did they let whoever has this, I assume a museum or some person, how do they let them just have it to scan it? Are they like getting lazy? It sounds like it. It does. But at the same time, maybe it's such a public.

record at this point where if anyone intervenes and takes it, no questions asked. It just looks extremely sketchy. And at that point, it's okay, so it was definitely an alien then if the government intervened. But I feel like the fact that it's just openly out there. And especially with the whole thing that happened with all the fake alien bodies where remember that where they were like, we found an alien body. And then it's like, oh, it's cake. No, it isn't. It's all that. bullshit that happened where this seems like okay this seems real you know yeah i mean it's very unusual for sure three fingers weren't there babies in it like fetuses i think so skeletons yeah the whole thing dude it's a lot going on a lot yeah and crazy crazy stuff i don't know what to

think about that i think if it is an alien here's my guess at this point It's probably a hybrid because there's features on that thing that you can't manipulate. You can mess with your skull putting, I believe it was the rings in your neck. There's only so much you can morph when it comes to the human body. Right. But when it comes to that, that like mummy, that carcass, there's a lot of that that it has to be like, done post debt i don't know or fake or they take a skull and build around it but what weren't there like really weird bone structures as well well it has three fingers right and it doesn't look

like it doesn't look like there's an amputation it like looks yeah everything's intact with just three and that's not very common i don't think anything that we have on this planet is just like three fingers generally and they're tiny tiny little things too so yeah they're the kind of things that would fit in a little spacecraft it's like okay let's look deeper in that cave maybe there's a ship in there please well how how wild would that be what about 26 yeah let's do it let's get down that what so they were talking early on in the pod about stephen spilberg obviously his movies Encounters of the third kind, all these things. It seems like he's been, it seems like he's been a bit in the know.

Because he's been kind of getting a lot of this stuff right. Do you think he's had some access to some, like somebody has been telling him some things? I would love to have him on Rogan's podcast. I don't, I think if he knew some stuff, he got it because he wasn't going to talk about how he got it. So maybe he won't discuss it. But it seems like he knew some shit, dude. It's tough. And it's funny you mention that because a lot of the comments and reception this episode got where people just being like, oh, I want Spielberg to be on so bad.

So bad. Which how great of an episode would that be? Amazing. think it's kind of the whole Simpsons thing where everyone thinks the Simpsons predict the future because there's so many fucking episodes where they're bound to get a few things right I think it's the same thing with there's a million alien movies out there where you will get some parallels also at the same time it makes sense that Spielberg would have looked at alien encounters uh especially the whole Barney and Betty Hill thing they discussed

where a lot of that reflects the movie and it makes sense that he wanted to be accurate so he looked into a lot of these encounters and people who were talking about being abducted

and how they describe things and kind of just take all that lay it out and be like okay let's just kind of morph all these encounters and all these recollections into one and that's going to be my alien my like presence here That would make sense, but at the same time, we've talked about Kubrick's ties to the government on this podcast.

So at this point, if aliens are just future humans, I want to put it past it, honestly. And it may be exactly what you're saying. It may just be that directors is legendary as Spielberg and who was the guy that did like Avatar and the Titanic? James Cameron. Cameron, like those legendary kind of directors, maybe they're just so good at putting the image together through the way that they gather information and then and then kind of create a storyboard that it just happens to be so close to like what it ends up being. Like that's how good they are. Like that, yeah, you're right. There's a good chance of that. Who made that movie The Abyss? You remember that one? Yes, that was Was that the same guy who did It's Tarantino's buddy, right? Am I wrong there?

Robert Rodriguez, was that him? Or am I thinking a whole different movie? We shouldn't. No, that was James Cameron. James Cameron did that. Robert Rodriguez. And you know what? I mean, the abyss, it's like

that was incredible. They talked a lot about under ocean civilizations and, you know, alien civilizations that could be down there hiding away because we wouldn't know i i've heard lots of times that we haven't explored like we know more about certain parts of space or the moon or whatever than what's under the ocean i have heard this yet i've also seen those maps that they do where they just show kind of the terrain under the ocean in the pacific and the atlantic and the cracks

and the little mountains. And I'm like, oh, I guess we've scanned it all. That's actually not true. We haven't really done that. They've kind of bullshitted, supposedly, that mapping. We really don't know what's down there in most of that area. We really have no clue. So there could be all those things.

That would be the best place to hide. It seems like, unless you can just be invisible. Well, you have the Baltic Sea anomaly, which was just crazy. I've heard about it before, but it looks like a crashed UFO. If it's a human structure, what the hell is it doing down there? Then it goes under the category of what is humanity's timeline when it comes to civilization. Also, at the same time, they showed that scan that looked like an underwater alien base off the coast of California, which was just insane.

It has pillars. It has a flat roof to it. And then on top of that, and they don't touch on this on the episode, but the weird laws surrounding Antarctica when it comes to exploring and how it would kind of make sense, why not just set up camp in the place you're studying? We do that. Explorers and people who, you know, biologists will do that when it comes to studying life. It makes sense for aliens or future humans to kind of set up camp and do some test and studies here.

So I wouldn't put it past anybody that there are alien bases on Earth. It makes a lot of sense that there would be. Well, the Baltic Sea anomaly is like, the wildest looking thing ever. I almost can't believe that it looks like that, even though there are tons of pictures of it. It looks so alien. It's crazy.

But is it metal? Or is it just rock? I don't think... Surely you can just go down and hit it and just be like, oh, that's just rock. And then... I wonder how deep it is. You would think someone would be like,

well, there's potentially a fucking crashed UFO. We should go check that out. Let's like tie a rope to a GoPro, drop it in. Send a drone. Wild, dude. Yeah, this is. Well, let's talk a little bit about, and they kind of cover this at the end, but I want to jump to this because I was just so blown away by it.

Number one, Joe's Vivid Dream, which he talked about on a previous. podcast but it's really affected him okay it's really hit him hard now in the world of therapy i know that there are people that do dream analysis right they take this very seriously they kind of break down the meanings of things and a big part of their analysis and you know it's very speculative it's like a relative as well it's like just because you saw a scary thing or you saw a unicorn it doesn't always mean the same thing for every person, that type of thing, right? It's like, what does it mean to you? But how vivid it is is very important and how impactful the dream is

is also very important. Like these things are something these dream analysis people really look at. It seems like this one hit Joe hard. He's like this is the most impactful and kind of. kind of, like, wild thing that has ever happened to him. And remember, this is a guy that's had an incredible life with unbelievable access to just all kinds of, like, crazy experiences, right? Plus, all his DMT journeys, I mean, it's not like he hasn't been out there in

Wackadoo Land. And this dream is standing out to him and has been on his mind for some time. And it seems like his interpretation of this is, and he's kind of saying it, but he's trying not to be two Alex Jones all in on this, but he's basically suggesting that they, and when I say they, the aliens, all the future human time travelers, have made contact with him. and that's how they chose to do it with the most influential most listened to human being that ever existed which to be fair

would be the person you need to go have a chat with and they've touched bases and he's not really sure what to think about it yeah it's quite a psychedelic experience on top of all that too

that's too much pressure for me dude I'm glad I'm not in his shoes me neither and it makes a lot of sense because recently has been coming forward with a lot of these people and talking about their encounters and their theories and age of disclosure. You know, I feel like he had a big role in that in terms of society's acceptance on things like that. Now, what I would love to happen is on the podcast for him to have a hypnotist on the show and make him relive that experience out loud.

Now, the Barney and Betty Hill tape that we heard at the end of the podcast is exactly that, where these two people who were like the first ever abductees who came forward about it. New Hampshire, New England represent right here. On 90, where was it?

I think it was like 95 South or something, but yeah, They got abducted, 1961, crazy story, and they couldn't believe what, first, like, interracial couple, too, which is crazy as well. So they're coming forward as an interracial couple and as alien abductees. How much pressure is that? Yeah. And how awkward that is because they're stuck with this experience that traumatized them.

And they play a clip of a very extended meeting that they had with a hypnotist that hypnotized them and had them relive all the events. And they play a bit of it, which is so haunting that we heard where he's like, I got to get my gun. I got to get my gun. Which is, geez, like that, that's a liar doesn't say shit like that. Right. It seems so genuine. And I would love for Joe to kind of get that treatment because he's saying, he's like, yeah, there's some parts of their dream. And he said in the past that there's some parts of the dream.

He's a little iffy on in terms of like exactly what happened. But I'd love him to like really go through this kind of treatment. I wonder if hypnotists can really do that with this situation. I think they can. I mean, there's there's a thing where, you know, I don't know if it's like not everyone can get. hypnotize but the more suggestible you are the better candidate you are for certain types of hypnosis maybe for that sort of you know story regression hypnosis everybody has the potential for it so um maybe there's a chance i think that that would be good because joe even did say

i think that my memory of this is really now just a recounting of me saying the memory so he's starting to not be sure you know what the original picture is which to be fair is what happens it is known to be what happens when you continually bring up an old memory you're rewriting it every time so it's it does change yeah i i would love to hear that because it's definitely notable and there's a history of of exactly this when it comes to aliens contact through dreams you know especially in the whole barney and betty hill case that happened as well after the incident they were having crazy dreams very similar to what joe had so if you think about it if there was an access point where you could communicate with people via dreams it would be the most

effective process for doing it because you literally can enter however you want to in any form in any way applying any emotion to the individual or any circumstances and make it as profound as you need to and, you know, even if like even if it seemed like an interrogation when they move away from

or propaganda or pressure or whatever, when they move away from it, it's just a dream. So they just like, well, wait, was that real? Or what was that? And they just have to sit there dwelling on it and thinking about it. it. I mean, it's a, it's a pretty powerful way to kind of insert a message. Also, it seems like the way to do it. But you're saying that, I mean, is that even more far-fetched

than fucking time travel? How do you get into someone's dreams? What kind of machine do you need for that? I don't know. And it seems like that's the thing. Like, when Michael was talking about, what was that, a dinner party? That's right. that's the next thing was that we have to get into that yeah that's the next one so the UFO conference he went to and he was invited to and yes this woman that he kind of like loosely knew invited into like this VIP room bar place and during that interaction he was like talking to somebody else and he was like there was kind of some suggestic telepathic knowledge that was passed to him. And I mean, you know, really listen to the pod. Like, I can't do

the story justice, of course. But it was just that it was mind bending, nuts, in a sense. And I'm not trying to discredit him. It's like the kind of thing that if somebody that you felt like was a little unstable was telling you, you would immediately dismiss it because it's so wacky. Coming from him, And he seemed very honest, very trustworthy, obviously highly educated. And honestly, the type of person that maybe some people would want to try and pass some knowledge to in some way, it's like, oh shit, are they doing this? Is this what they're doing? Yeah. He's the biggest name coming forward to with this kind of information and theory as well.

So it makes a lot of sense. But the whole idea of him saying they put information in my brain that I can't access, what the hell does that mean? Like, there's some really crazy psychedelic things happening here. I feel like, you know, I don't, if you were to ask me, if I believe this, I couldn't answer you. I really couldn't because I like, I don't know anymore. it's impossible everything i don't i don't know anymore because i do believe that the government has been back engineering UFOs five years ago i i would have thought yeah i've read about it but maybe who knows i don't know but now i'm like okay it's happening you know i'm pretty

confident that it's happening and it seems like all these crazy things are starting to snowball and all these crazy thoughts five years later two years later are kind of like yeah it's kind of common knowledge now in this circle so that kind of idea that that could happen as well as past abductions and alien encounters there's a lot of telepathy that happens and similar things so it makes a lot a sense. It all tracks, and I am very excited for the future when it comes to stuff like this. And let's hope maybe at the comedy mothership, someone comes up to Joe and puts some shit in his brain. And it's like, yo, I'm an alien and good shit. I mean, I would like to believe that if we do get real contact, the first alien human podcast is the Yo Rogan experience.

Let's get Skinny Bob on the JRE. They'll be great. I want to see it. It'd be excellent. Imagine if it's a complete dud. He's like super boring. Doesn't have any jokes. It's just him playing,

how fucking funny would that be if he has an alien on? And it's just Joe talking about like gender politics and the shit the whole time. Like the alien doesn't even get a war. He's like, have you, you know 50 cent, right? You know 50 cent? have you tried elk should try elk have you ever gone bow hunting

the guy's like I'm here to tell like something important and he's like you know what you need to try new tropics like I'm not sure what you guys do

for hygiene but have you tried an ice bath seriously he just gives him a kettlebell that like no we're not this is not

what we're doing here today I'm looking at your form, dude, you need ankle weights. I don't know how to tell you this, but I honestly, honestly with all this stuff, though, things changed for me after Bob Lazar came on Rogan. Now, Bob Lazar and Rogan is, I believe, the most watched and downloaded Rogan of all time. I'm pretty sure it's close to that. It might be, it might be an Elon one, maybe the first Elon one, but I'm pretty sure Bob Lazar is the most watched overall. I'd have to Google it and check, but it's close.

And there's good reason for that. And it's because that's the most interesting shit of all time, potentially, if it's real. And it's starting to get very real. It's getting so close to that. I don't know what this means in terms of do we bring Bob back on? because I think once it gets to a point where it's very clear he was right and he's vindicated, that may clearly be the biggest Rogan podcast of all time. Bob Lazar too, coming on with all the new information, everything he's had, totally vindicated,

and kind of just maybe even telling more of his story. because a big thing of that podcast is there were certain things he didn't say and he kind of implied that he would tell Joe off air. So Joe has more information. Well, could we get it? Because we all want it. We want to know.

I think when it comes to the topics of aliens, alien technology, and general intentions between both sides, there's a lot more to uncover. I think there really is and we're really starting to scrape the surface here. I think we're getting

into a very deep iceberg and I want to be surprised if Joe's keeping them in the chamber. You think so? And wait for some more to come out because it seems like every couple weeks I learn something that's like, holy shit. And there's some real

like citations, behind it there's some like it's it's not just some dude who works at best spy you know like it's real it's real information from real people and i find that now that this is starting to snowball maybe he wants that snowball to be a little bigger until he pulls trigger on that because that's a big get that's that's going to be a massive episode and i feel like that's the episode where we talk about aliens on Earth, aliens potentially in the government, who knows, who knows. But I think there's a lot more to uncover here. And I think he would be the great person to have on to blow the lid off of all this, right when it's about to pop off.

I mean, that really is like the next big conversation is, okay, if we admit that they've come here, we've found their crafts, or they crashed it. We've reverse engineered them. We have some biological specimens that we've kept. And there's potentially even some interactions with our government or the military and these beings. Then would there also not be some influence that they're having over us at some level? And where is that? And what does that mean? I mean, this five years ago was some of the craziest stuff that you could even get talking about.

I mean, it was hard. One thing to be like, I think I saw a UFO, but if you start saying aliens are in the government and running it, I mean, that's so out there. You might as well be flat earth and chem trails and all the rest of it. But it could be the next discussion after a real disclosure of like, yeah, we have the crafts. They've been here. We've been talking to them. It's like, well, you're talking to them. Why would they not be trying to influence some stuff?

And why would we not believe that they wouldn't have quite a lot of influence over some things? Do we really think that they're just coming here and having a brief chat? I don't think so. I don't think you go through time in spacecraft to just be like, what up, guys? Check out this. Look at this laser. I'll just give you this laser and I'll just disappear. Like, no, I don't think so.

Nope. I think there's so many subtopics to explore here. And for example, multiple alien species. That's something I do believe. okay, so could this possibly mean it's humans from different eras? These ones are humans from a million years ago. These are humans from a hundred thousand years in the future, a million years in the future. Is that what we're talking about?

Right. And at the same time, it's like, okay, there's the grays, there's the tall whites, apparently reptilians. What are their deal? What are their relationships? What are the politics between them? There is so much to uncover here. There is so much, not just in technology, but in terms of who these beings are. And I think the whole time traveler thing is interesting.

Both could be right as well. There could be aliens and there could be future humans and maybe everyone's time traveling. So who knows? It could be all the above here, potentially. Yeah. I mean, but also the thing is, they're pretty sure that they, NASA, this is, pretty sure that they found some sort of microscopic kind of biological fossil remains life on Mars. Like it's dead, but it's like a fossil version of it. So that indicates good chance of life there. And what does that mean? Under the, surface. There could be some liquid water there. There could be some life. And I guess the real question then is, you know, the big jump in evolution was going from single cellular organisms to multi. The multi is the complexity of us that can make things, right? Otherwise, you've just got

a universe full of bacteria and fungus and the rest of it. And maybe that leap is the part that's really rare. Maybe life is not that rare, but maybe the jump to multicellular is. If that's the case, then good chance that all of these different races are just different time-travelling things from this planet. However, if we start digging around, you know,

and go to, what's that Saturn moon that's like, Just all water? Oh, yeah. That's a good question. Utopa or, no. I'm not sure. I know what you're talking about, though. But it's like mostly water and ice.

Yeah. Yeah, if we get there and they find, you know, some squiggly jellyfish thing. Like, shit, cod. Something. Then they're like, oh, multicellular. Then it's like, oh, they could be coming from everywhere. Right? I mean, the distances are a problem, but, you know, if they can be zapping around,

our planet as quick as they can shoot around it's like well they maybe they can bend time and space and get over here real fast anyway so they they could be both things they could be going through time and coming from wherever awesome is that i think there's a lot of things in this life that we as humans just need to be way more open-minded about it's good to have like concrete read evidence and to always keep that in mind, but at the same time, what was it a few episodes ago? We were talking about when they found, I'm probably not going to get the exact numbers right here. In Russia, they found like a wagon wheel in the stone. Oh, yeah. That seemed to date back, what, four million years ago? Uh-huh. Was that? And that looks like

a fucking wagon wheel. Yeah. Like, how is that a, natural rock formation. I think there's a lot of things about planet Earth and us humans and just humanity that we don't understand yet and we don't know about and we're slowly discovering. Fuck knows what happened on Mars. For sure. And the audacity of us to pretend that even dismissing that wheel and being like, well, that can't be that because we know everything that happened in the past, so it can't be a million-year-old wheel in a mine in Russia. It's like, wait a second, what do we really know about the past? Who the heck was writing anything down then? Yes, we have archaeologists, and yes, we should listen to them, because they are classically trained,

academics, they're the best version of what we have that are figuring things out. But there are also flaws in the way that they put that information together there are biases you know they like to put certain timelines together and therefore by doing that they will dismiss certain outliers of information and everything needs to be looked at at the end of the day we just don't know we did not write anything down then we have no idea our history is very short yeah and history changes all the time like to your point about that it's like i've studied this theory and i've made this theory i've dedicated my whole life to it my legacies on i've written books about it you know i can't believe i know it's wrong now i can't admit that i have to prove i have to you live by this theory

and that happens in science all the time legacies are behind it financial reasons where certain things that people discover that they become famous for get disproven and they do everything they can to bury that information that happens all the time it in this case when it comes to god UFOs the history of human civilization yeah there's an overlap there so who knows that's why you have to be open about this stuff but at the same time you like you have to you have to always speculate that like with this topic alone I see where a lot of the beliefs are and I understand where he's coming from. And I'm not saying I'm fully on board, but I'm kind of on the fence about this. I really am. And I think it's just a

healthy way to look at things, especially like this, where just take everything with a great assault because there are a million theories and opinions out there when it comes to this stuff. So who knows? Yeah. And look, it's always been fun, right? This is fun regardless. This is like a fun thought experiment. It's exciting to get behind. It's made great TV shows and movies, Stephen Spielberg, The X-Files, you name it. It's like some of the best cool stuff that just gets the imagination going. And at the same time, now we're getting into an era where it's becoming really pretty legitimate, right? I wouldn't say it's all the way like absolutely without a shadow of a doubt there it is but it's it's pretty damn close dude

it's pretty damn close unless they just i mean i don't know what much more they would need to do to start really convince me i mean they could wheel out a ship and just be like there it is we're putting this in the Smithsonian and I'd be like oh sick there we go but I think I would feel the same level of belief once I see it as I kind of do now I'd be like yeah there it is like I've heard enough to start believing it's like it too I didn't see that the earth was round before I believed my teachers and other people that have clearly measured things that I am not capable of doing, that have been like, yeah, it's a big, round thing. It's not flat.

I was happy to believe that. Yeah, same. And when it comes to conspiracy theories, especially this one, which is a conspiracy theory, technically, what other one has this many whistleblowers? Good point. This many. It's like every day there's 10 new ones. Yeah. And it's not just fucking Reddit mods.

It's not just some dude on his computer who said, I hacked the program and found Skinny Bob. No, it's like real fucking people who have Wikipedia pages who there's evidence that they served. There's evidence that they were involved with very classified information and duties. It makes sense. And a lot of these people are coming out and saying, well,

there was a career risk before, but there's a lot more people now. again check out our interview with Kagan because we get all into that you have to watch that one if you haven't listened to that you have to listen to it yeah and we get into the age of disclosure documentary and everything but it's a lot of these topics we're talking about now but with an actual whistleblower here and it's just I don't think there's any like like Bigfoot come on like the Locust Monster like like the moon landing 9-11 so of the big biggest conspiracy theory is this like when you when you really look as the statistics here

this is the best one if you that has to say something it really has to say something dude if they found a big foot it would be way lamer than literally the whole of all of these government officials being like oh yeah by the way aliens exist and we have their spaceships that is the best one of all time Fox Mulder from the X-Viles if he was a real person would be pulling his hair out right now he would be so pumped

yeah now they're all time travelers like this is just getting better why not why not throw it in there we can literally believe anything at this point it's like well you know we get that and I really think that Michael just kind of brought this

to light in a beautiful way I don't know what it was about his delivery and just kind of his attitude and and just his intellect he was just a cool guy that just really had a great way of setting the stage and giving his message and was open to whatever types of ideas and it honestly just made me trust him as an academic I'm like they're the kind of academics I want to exist you know he didn't come in with biases he wasn't trying to protect something you know he wasn't you know protecting the pyramids and saying things like buy my book over and over again he was straight up just like could be this could be that also pretty sure

an alien talked to me at a bar and put stuff in my mind i'm not ashamed to admit it i mean i love how subjective he was that's a crazy thing to say on a podcast dude yeah and joe was all about it he was like, oh man, I like it. I don't know what to say when it comes to ratings, but I've got a feeling we're about to get some high ratings. Give it to me. Oh, my God. When it comes to this episode, I can't go any lower than a nine. I'm going with a nine. The thing is, you know, I have to save the 10 for a special episode. You have to. I feel like they're, like, this can be topped. This is fantastic, but it can be top. Yeah, we can't be giving

10. Bob Lazar 2, we got to save a 10 for it, but this is if Alex Jones comes on the podcast and gives birth to a gray alien, then I'm like, well, I already said my 10. This isn't as good. That's it. You know, nine, solid nine.

We're fantastic. We're allowed to say 11. My favorite podcast we've reviewed, in my opinion. Since I've been a part of the show, my, the favorite episode I've watched. This one's been fantastic. This is a 9 plus for me. And if you are into this sort of podcast, you know, if the UFO type stuff is like, why you listen to Rogan, I mean, this is an absolute banger. You cannot miss this one.

And, you know, I've listened to it twice. Like, I listened to the first one over a couple of days in the gym. And I went right back to the beginning. I did it again. and it was just as good and you know think of the greatest movies you've ever watched

I can't think of one that I immediately turned on again and watched the whole movie you know what I mean it's like that's how interesting this conversation was I was like I think I missed something I have to listen to this again

I was all about it dude fantastic I loved it all right well check it out and yeah good stuff I'm really pumped on this.

Amazing episode. Thank you guys so much for bearing with us, where we get really pumped and excited about UFOs once again. Hopefully there's more in the New Year's. And I think that what Joe is doing by having these people on, not only is he this excited about this particular topic, which he has been since, you know, the beginning of the Rogan, I think he's trying to force the issue.

I think he's trying to make it so undeniable that the powers that be are like, oh, shit, we've just got to just say it now. I think that's what he's potentially starting to use a portion of his platform for, which is wild. And why not? Why not? And I think when that damn breaks and the truth gets out, let's have our future selves on the podcast. I think that'd be a lot of fun.

I love, yeah, just go back in time. I love it. All right, guys. you so much. We will talk to you next time. And peace and love, happy New Year. Happy New Year. See ya.