Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - 508 JRE Review of Roger Avary

Episode Date: February 24, 2026

Roger Avary is an Academy Award-winning filmmaker and screenwriter best known for co-writing Pulp Fiction and directing cult films like Killing Zoe and Rules of Attraction. In this episode, Joe Rogan and Avary explore storytelling craft, dialogue, nonlinear structure, the evolution of Hollywood, and how technology and algorithms are reshaping creativity. The conversation also moves into a deeper discussion about media, belief, conspiracy culture, and the power of narrative to shape how audiences interpret reality. On this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience Review, we break down the key themes, standout insights, and online reaction, separating signal from noise so you understand what mattered, what landed, and why this episode sits at the intersection of filmmaking, media literacy, and modern internet culture. Thanks to this weeks sponsors: Go to brooklynbedding.com and use my promo code JRER at checkout to get 30% off sitewide. www.JREreview.com For all marketing questions and inquiries: [e-mail] Please email us here with any suggestions, comments and questions for future shows.. [e-mail]    

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Now with your host, Adam Thorn. This might be the worst podcast. One. Go. Enjoy the show. Hey guys and welcome to another episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Review. Brandon and I are here to tackle this episode that got kind of wild. I thought it was just going to be about movies.

And boy, did they get into some other things on this one to say the least? Yeah, this was a great episode with. Eddie brava. I mean, uh, Roger Avery. It was, it was an awesome episode. It might as well have been. It might as well have been. Eddie bravo. You know what this episode made me think, it made me think, I took a film class in college. It felt like I was talking to like, you know, I made a friend there and was talking to like the weird kid in the film class. And during our conversation, his medication started to wear off. Yeah. Because it went from like just movies and just slow, creeped into this territory that was like what in the world is going on right it's like day one

of class and you're like wow i've met i've met a really interesting kid in class today they're like this guy really knows this stuff about movies and by the end of it you're like i need to sit somewhere else next week or maybe even drop this class oh oh you like citizen cane too that's awesome what else can we talk about so the curvature of the earth you know it's it's it's it's crazy. I honestly loved the 180. I really did like it. I could hang out with him all day and every day, maybe. And he's a trackie. I like it. I like it. I like him. Yes. He's made some good movies to, you know, director, producer, Academy Award winning screenwriter for pop fiction, which he co-wrote with Tarantino. Doe. One of my favorite. Attraction. Killing Zoe. He's done some of

amazing stuff. Oh yeah. And fan reception for this episode is a little mixed. And when I say mixed, it's either one end to the spectrum or the other. You know what I mean? Yeah. Where people are saying it was just the best shit ever. I loved every topic. It was just awesome. And then others saying this was just completely mental. Yeah. In England, we call that Marmite. You either love it or you hate it. It's not going to make any sense for anyone that isn't British or Australian for this episode. And I definitely loved it. Yeah. I definitely liked it quite a lot. Yeah. Well, you know, people could be put off by just kind of how he changed direction. But, you know, even when he was doing the flat earth thing, he was more just being an antagonist, right? Almost like devil's advocate.

He was just kind of playing with the idea that, hey, what have you seen? as an observer, though. Just take that into account for a second and just start from that perspective and work backwards. Like, ultimately, you do have to entrust a lot to a lot of other people in order to believe something else. And, you know, quite rightly, we do. And for good reason. because otherwise our understanding of a lot of things would completely fall the pieces. Yeah. Yeah. And regarding the flat earth stuff, it's like, it's fun to see him push back.

It really was Eddie Bravo all over again. What in the world is happening? Yeah. This was a movie podcast. We're doing Eddie Bravo now. But I do think a little bit. I know he was even saying like you said that he was like, I'm just having fun with you.

I'm just pushing back. he believed it. He believed. Even Joe is like, Hey man, you know, you seem to have really looked into this. This doesn't seem like a fun little thing you're bringing up.

Like this seems like you actually have some real beliefs in this. Oh yeah. I don't know. It's like, like to even get into this, you know, the flight patterns, the whole idea when a boat,

like a ship, like go. goes across like over the horizon, its bottom first fades out. You know what I mean? The whole ship at once doesn't fade into the horizon. It just makes sense. Also, the whole idea of like all these competing countries and there's this one big thing they're all hiding, the fact that not a single country would be like, hey, well, like,

that would be the, like, the most insane discovery. Like, that would be the most insane thing to cover up. and the fact that everyone's lying, that's the only thing that all these governments are on the same... Page about. Yeah. Page about. And for what?

Like it makes no sense. Yeah. What would they have to gain? What difference does it make? You know, think of the things that they lie for. It's to gain some sort of control or power. What power and control would they be gaining by just saying it was round?

instead of flat. It's like we, it doesn't change anything for us. Either way. We just still walking around it. Yeah. When you look at 9-11, the moon landing,

when it comes to, you know, maybe controlled demolition or faking the moon landing, there's a lot of reason behind all that, you know. It makes sense why we would do certain things.

I don't agree with these certain things. things, but it makes sense why we would. You could see the motivation. Exactly. I can see the motivation 100%. This, there's, it literally is done. Dude, I could see even the motivation for chem trails, right? Depending on what a chemical could be, it's like, yeah, you could either poison or add some

compound to an area for some reason. Like, yeah, I could see a motivation to do that. Whereas just saying something is a different shape or high. hiding vast stretches of an area from people for some reason. I just, I don't get it. I don't understand what any motivation there would be. And then space is also completely not real. He was like, the moon is just plasma.

It's like, wouldn't we just say that it is then? That's actually pretty interesting. Like, cool. Okay, it is. Fine. no sense. Yeah. I think there's a bit of radicalization here when it comes to conspiracy theorists right now

because I talked about this with Alex Jones with Bohemian Grove. It's like imagine being a conspiracy theorist and you just hit the lottery. You know what I mean? What does that do to a person? Yeah. That turns you into it that like, you know, if you thought you were a conspiracy theorist before, now all of it's bullshit. Yes.

If that's, if that's, you know, happening, what else is bullshit? It's the whole thing with Eddie Bravo where he's like, I don't think anything's real. I think everyone's lying all the time. Anything someone says, it's the opposite. Right. And I think that mindset's a little dangerous. A little. But like, it's just such a flawed way to think.

Yeah. Like just to always assume it's the opposite. Well, you have to have foundation. in order to go from, right? You have to have something grounded to be like, okay, now I make decisions from this point. If everything is like, right, everything's a lie, everything I'm told is the opposite. I mean, where do you go from that? That gets squirly fast.

I mean, I think a lot of this is that, you know, he enjoys the rabbit holes. They make good stories. He's a storyteller. He makes great films that go down. these sorts of rabbit holes when telling stories because that's what's interesting. So why wouldn't he explore it? And on the way down, especially because of the internet, like the longer you look at these things, you know, the more convincing some of it does look.

And then you get your mind in that gear and it's kind of easy to get stuck in there. You start connecting the dots yourself. And also there's always that thing you want to believe. want to kind of feel like the only person that figured it out. Exactly. That's what conspiracy is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of cherry picking.

What was funny, he was saying, like, yeah, Galileo said that, you know, he thought the earth was flat and they have the dome and everything. It's like, yeah, dude, like, what, 300 years ago, they were saying if you have diarrhea, you should do cocaine, you know? Right. It's like, the track record hasn't been good for science. You know what I mean? I feel like looking at the past

at something like that like hey one at one point someone said 500 years ago there was a big foot so there has to be big foot's right I don't think that's a good way to make conclusions you know

yeah yeah and did you see that thing where the they there was a bunch of flat earthers and they tried to debunk that the earth is a sphere by having you know two it's like two wooden blocks, two wooden walls. This podcast is brought to you by Brooklyn Bedding. I love a good origin story and Brooklyn Bedding has one of my favorites. John, the founder, literally built this

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and they cut a hole in both of them at the same length from the ground and they're like okay we're at this distance if we shine the light into the hole since the earth is flat we should be able to see it on the other side but if it's curved then we won't see the light so they shine it through the hole no light. And he's like, all right, well, we'll put the light over your head. He puts it over his head. Now we can see the light. He's like, oh, it's interesting. Then it plays the curb your enthusiasm music, you know? It's like, I don't know.

Proves it right to him. And I'm sure they came up with some other reason why. Some other reason why it happened. Because now flat earthers are looking at that, and they're thinking like, they're plants. They're not, they're, there's plants, you know, anti-flattered. made this documentary to make us look stupid it's a faulty it's probably some bolted flashlight it's all it is yeah faulty flashlight I actually think the

earth's a cube to be honest that makes a lot more sense it'd be funny Cuba society just throw throw it in the mix why not let's start that yeah why not I don't know man yeah what do you think about go on what do you think about predictive uh programming. In film, you know, they used the example of fight club, how the demolition of the buildings,

and how pretty much we are programmed through just like pop culture, getting us ready for certain things. Like, for example, they used that whole example of like, Stephen Colbert giving the, baby to mullock and be like take the baby and then all this shit happens and we're like yeah whatever saw it on tv yeah like that that's what happens in film we can also go back to every single alien movie ever you know what i mean so what are your thoughts on that generally do you think that's

more of a bigger operation to control the public i mean or it's just a coincidence in terms of yeah you make enough interesting stories and movies and then real life has it happen and um we react the way that we would have anyway i mean you know is he implying that we would have acted differently if we hadn't had seen this in movies before almost like the movie itself is desensitizing us of it and that there's this grand conspiracy that people like all right guys So now we need to show some babies being given to devils because over time we're going to normalize the fact that we sacrifice babies and then people would just be like cool with it.

That seems like a bit of a long play and a bit of a stretch. I agree. I do agree. I like to look at it like this, like an analogy with music. You know what I mean? At some point, every sound is going to be made.

Right. Every genre, everything's going to happen. Same thing with film, same thing with TV. Every premise is going to be touched upon. It's just bound to happen. It's bound to happen in any art form, you know, and premises of those premises and twist some things. And it's happening to this day. But I think, yeah, it's like it's, I think it's a coincidence. But at the same time, I don't think he's wrong. I think it has desensitized people. I don't think maybe it was it was meant to happen that way. That was like the plan, but.

No, I, look, now that I think about it, I agree with you more because one thing that kind of, in a sense, does happen. There is a difference that I notice when I moved to America is TV was far more violent. Like earlier in the day, they would play movies that had more violence on than they do in the UK. and conversely England would have more nudity and cuss words and then American TV did so it was like

that was the sweat in England that was more normalized and in America violence was like perfectly fine I mean I remember watching like die hard in like the middle of the day and they had it on some cable show they would never do that in England

like it just they don't show movies like that on regular TV. And I also understood America to kind of be, I don't want to say a more violent culture, but just like kind of, like I knew they had guns in America. We didn't have guns in England. You know, it was just kind of like maybe a bit more of an aggressive nature. So in a sense, it's like, yeah, we put this violence on TV. The rest of the world sees America as like, you know, their military is kind of everywhere, always doing stuff, you know. All other countries know what America's impact is militarily. And so maybe there's something there.

Or maybe this was just my mind as a kid moving to America, you know? I think you have a point. I think you have a point. But there's something there. There was something I noticed. There is. There is. Because over here, it's like, it's crazy because, like, you'll flip through the channels.

they'll be playing like, you know, Cannibal Holocaust. You go over there, flip through the channels, it's like Wallace and Gromit. Yeah. You know. And then some, and then some tits on Channel 5 for some reason. Yeah.

Yeah. Honestly, a perfect follow-up. Yeah. My two favorite things in life, Wallace and Gromit and Tits. Some tits. Wallace and Gromit is great. So good.

Such an underrated, I guess, shorts, movies, whatever you want to call them. What was it like? Play-Doh or, or like clay.

It was clay. There's clay. Yeah. But so good. Like the new movie too is awesome. Love the one with the penguin. Anyway, I do want to say this before we move on from predictive programming.

That. So what do we, well, hold on, hold on. Summarize, what do we decide? There's a little bit of potentially predictive programming going on.

I think it's more of, we're just really desentatized as a society. everything's about violence, everything's about all these things. We're just naturally, like, we're just so desensitized. So it's like, it almost just happened naturally. Like, no one really had to do this because it was already happening. Uh-huh. You know, the predictive programming, like, we were already prepared.

It was already naturally happening. I'm with you. Now, it's interesting that Avery points out that the producer of Fight Club was a Mossad agent. Oh, yeah. Whoops. That's wild. Before 9-11, uh-oh. But, yeah, that's a whole, that 9-11's a whole other, it's a whole other can of worms, man.

Oh, yeah. I don't know what to think. I don't know what to think about. Man, Fight Club really is one of my favorite movies, too. It is so good. That movie is just good on so many levels. Brad Pitt. It's great.

Yeah, Brad Pitt. That, dude, when I go to the gym, that's what I imagine. I need to look like that. That is the dream bond. That is like the perfect. Like, oh. Tyler Durdon is just the greatest character ever.

Yeah. The freest, coolest, tough, and awesome shape. I mean, I don't know what steroids he was taken to get that ripped or what type of workout he had, but my God, did he work hard. He basically just made. everyone before that look like shit? I forget what I was watching. It was some interview, but it was with like a personal trainer and he's like, yeah, every time I ask someone what they want, they're like, you know, their body to look like, they always point to Tyler Durdent. Yeah. Which it's like the perfect

amount of like muscle. Dude, this is how handsome and cool Brad Pitt was in that. Jared Leno was was in that movie and you kind of forget he was. And he's a very handsome. guy. I totally forgot him. That's what I'm saying. He's the guy that Edward Norton beats up real bad in the fight. Oh yeah. Yeah. He's in it. And he

doesn't stand out at all. Because you put him next to Brad Pitt, you can't even pay attention. You're like, no, too cool, too awesome. Everyone else is just nothing. That's a good movie, man. Made by Mossad. Yeah.

Brought to you by Mossad. something at least Israel did something good solid good work good look at anyway you know we just we have to talk about it 9-11 oh yeah that came out of nowhere it was bound to happen they really hit all the the bubbles here all the check marks all the all the points all the good flatter I think the moon landing they didn't really touch they kind of hit on that yeah I mean, he made some references about NASA being bullshit and faking a lot of the footage because Joe was just like, well, NASA, you know, has all the data and he's like, oh, you're going to believe NASA. And as soon as he said that, I actually was like, oh, yeah, kind of a good point.

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I'm like, kind of a good point, actually, you know, really. It's so funny watching like episodes where Rogan's like, you're kind of out there, man. Oh, yeah. Or he's like trying to reel back a gas. Like, I don't know that conspiracy is a little too crazy. That's when it gets like really fun. Oh, it's so good.

You know, I love like those Eddie Bravo episodes are great. Well, I like that Avery didn't take his foot off the gas once. Like he, he, I think he enjoyed it even more when Rogan was like, no, dude. What? And he's like, yep, but think about it. Come on. He was like really trying to take Rogan on a ride. I mean, and he did it in a fun way, too.

wasn't trying to be too pushy, you know, and he was just, like, playing with the story, seeing where Rogan was, like, how he could hook him almost. But he kept one-upping his conspiracies, you know, because there were so many points in everything he was saying where it's like, oh, that's the craziest one he believes in. And then, like, 10 minutes later, oh, no, that's the craziest one. He has to believe in, right? And then, oh, you know, the moon is, you know, it's like, what the fuck? Like what else?

It makes you think like what what is the extension of his beliefs? Does he think anything's fucking real? Yeah. You know, is he is he an Eddie Bravo? Because it seems like it that like just everything's bullshit. I think what he was saying also about the sacrifices in Hollywood. Let's hit 9-11 first. Okay.

Yeah. Because we got on that. We got to. We're all over the place. There's so much. There's so much. There's so much good stuff though. 9-11.

Right. Where should we start? Well, Building 7, we got to hit that, obviously. We got to hit it. We got to hit it. Head on. We got to hit it like a plane. Wait, no, too much.

Too soon? I don't know what the limit is on that. Have you seen the norm joke about 9-11? He's like, I lost my brother during, you know, 9-11. I was walking through blood and bone. trying to find him. Apparently he was in northern Canada. She's so stupid.

So stupid. I love him. I love him. The best. He's the best. Yeah. All right. We can,

we got to get the tower. They jump into it and it's like, how the hell did that go down? You know, it's like that one again. And, you know, the investigation is like,

you don't have to look too far into that one. And it gets real squirly. You know, the 9-11 commission was that massive report that took years and years. And it's just this huge book of basically nothing bullshit. They're like, yep, didn't find anything. Everything looked perfectly fine. And nothing about finding any of the potential explosive material or all the buildings just fell the way that they would. The building seven went down that.

Yep, that's just a fire. No connection to the fact that all the debilions. departments that would have either investigated or that were under investigation or none of that. Nobody even questioned anything about the fact that there was literally no footage of the plane crashing into the Pentagon and then really no parts either of that plane that made any sense. I mean, the most highly secure building probably in the world, and they didn't even have one video that they've ever released. And they don't show us because that's national security. What are they securing?

Wouldn't they want to show us to be like, look what happened. That's really bad. Right. I believe, I think they recently, like literally last year, put out some like, you know, security camera footage of like the crash, but it's so like out of frame and out of focus. You have no idea what's happening. Dude, there's like video online of what straight up looks like a missile being shot into the Pentagon. Just a missile along the ground.

And I don't know if that's real either, but it just looks like a missile. It's weird, man. And this is one of the conspiracies where it's like, okay, it makes sense why they would do this. with flat earth and all that it's like i don't i don't see it but like george bush massive approval spike gained national security powers the patriot act yep look at what that is now right you know what i mean surveillance dude they wanted everybody was behind any invasion that they wanted to do that the military industrial take them all out we need revenge dude so many other countries were like, yep, we're 100% behind you, let's go, based on really shitty intel.

Oh, Iraq has WMDs. They didn't even have anything to do with 9-11. That's fine. Let's go. Get in there. Take them out. They get there. No WMDs.

No sign of it. Nothing. Fine. Take them out. It's a real convenient coincidence. You know what I mean? I also want to say this. I just kind of want to shove this in there for Epstein.

The Epstein files, all Epstein emails before, during, and after 9-11 have been withheld by the government. What? Why? Suspicious. I'm not sure if I want to comment on that. Has the review even got to the point? The review is even got to the point. The review is even got to.

the point where we can't speak on it. Dude, if the review loses its freedom. If the review loses its freedom, we got nothing free. This review is the First Amendment. This is where it belongs.

Yeah, this is why we stay hidden, Brandon. It's why no one can track us down for good reason. This is why we live in caves away from the public. Under a rock. Oh, yeah. We go by pseudonyms. Our names are actually Stefan and Roger.

Exactly. We wear disguises. Yeah, obviously you are. Obviously, Ben. Clearly. Clearly. Now, I want to ask you this. Now that we're in this territory.

All right. What do you think about the dancing Israelis? How much do you know about that? Yeah, I've seen the whole things on that one. That's pretty interesting. Well, wouldn't they, didn't they end up being a bunch of students or something? All right. Well, apparently, it was so, you know, just to kind of summarize what it is.

Get it. Like, during 9-11, they saw five is really celebrating by a van, you know, watching the towers fall. They were reported and arrested. and then after being arrested, it was discovered that a bunch of them worked for Israeli intelligence. Ooh.

And then, but no more information. Gone. Don't worry about it. Go to war. Vote for a bush. It's, it's interesting. It could just be nothing. You know what I mean?

Devil's advocate. Yeah. I like to think it's nothing, but... That one is interesting, though. It's not good. Why would they be dancing? That doesn't seem like a good time to be dancing. What would you be so happy about?

You know? Unless you knew something. Unless you had like a long, intricate plan drawn out, and it was all coming together, and it had something to do with the Middle East. and this overall invasion strategy. I don't know. I don't know.

Squirly. Squirly. But here's the thing. Like, just pulling off that plan just seems, if any group of people could pull off a plan like that, they seem completely unstoppable. Not only could they pull it off, but they could get away with it,

as cleanly as they did. I mean, how could you even begin to stop a group like that? That is ultimate power stuff. I mean, you've literally got to send James Bond, John Wick, and the Mission Impossible guy. I forget his name. Ethan? I don't know. You got to get the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

Oh, Connery. Yes. Sean Connery. Frankenstein, Frank Sinatra. I forget what the whole crew is. Jacqueline Hyde. Okay. The Lorax, you know, the whole group. Yeah.

But it's what's scary about all this and talking about this and revisiting some of these conspiracy theories are like, PizzaGate was on this level. You know what I mean? Yeah, that one's dog. And now, and now you talk to your grandma and she's like, oh, yeah, yeah, they were eating babies. That's common knowledge. Yeah, she's on board. Yes. She finally believes.

Humans. Cream cheese, jerky. Well, Avery is like straight up. They did that. He has no doubt. Yeah. And he's saying they're still doing that. What I thought was interesting, he's like, hey, there's a certain female pop star in

Hollywood who sacrifices chickens every day for it. I'm like, what I'm like, let, can we focus on that a little more? That's what I want to learn about. because that's insane, right? I mean, imagine if you found out that there actually is like this kind of wealth and power gain through some sort of... I mean, dude, they did sacrifices, either human or animal, for millennia in the past. Now, we like to just think that that was just dumb stuff. that they did in the past.

You know? That was just like ancient people doing a thing. They didn't know what they were doing. They were just worshipping gods and getting it wrong and trying to make it rain or whatever, right? And we're like, look at those idiots doing that. They just didn't know any better. Well, they did it for a long time. A lot of them all over the world.

Imagine if you found out there's actually something to it that works. some sort of weird gains that you get. And there are some people that know it today. And they're willing to do it. Now, me personally, I'd like to believe that I wouldn't take advantage of that knowledge. And I'm not going to get involved. I'll just try my best in this life and not do it. But you could imagine there would be people that would.

They want power and money and whatever the thing is that it would give you so bad that they, could be trying it. Potentially, maybe that's something we can do. We can sacrifice guinea pigs every day. For the podcast. Yeah, for the podcast. A couple of goldfish per episode. It's like in a temple of doom,

like holding the goldfish's heart up, it's still beating. Yeah, it's just one goldfish. I don't know. Hey, predictive programming right there. You never know. But I think it's crazy. It's a tale older than time.

They do sacrifices. Societies do sacrifices. And I don't know what this world is anymore. It's hard to know, you know? And now people like Avery, I mean, look, dude, 10 years ago, if he had come on Rogan and started chops in a way like this, it, I mean, even if he'd come on saying all this right before all the Epstein stuff, he would have sounded way crazier.

I mean, a lot. more plausible at this point in time. Maybe that's why he asked to come on. I mean, he wasn't plugging anything. He doesn't have like a new movie. He just came on. Maybe he was just like Joe. He didn't want to come on. This is good timing for me. I've got a lot of theories. Joe's like, cool. Exactly. All right. Quentin probably text him and was like, my buddy wants to come on. Can you let him on? He's fun. Yeah. And I think he has a film studio in Texas now. right? I think he mentioned it briefly, I think.

He's trying to expand Texas, I'm pretty sure. Oh, okay, cool. So potentially, hey, I'm in the area, have me on the show. There we go. So get it down. Yeah. He was great, though, man. I don't know.

I liked his thing about the Star Trek DEI stuff. I couldn't agree more. I'm a bit of a trekkie. I do love it. I was a huge fan of Next Generation growing up. It was great escapism for me as a teenager as like a goofy nerdy teenager i just like to watch a lot of that and imagine i was in star fleet academy or on a spaceship or whatever the heck was going on and they know that's

how all those trekkies get into it and he's a huge fan of it and there was there's like there's great storytelling in that universe and it all flows together and what they did with the last couple of shows, I think it's Discovery. And the... Lower decks. The... No, the... The Starfleet Academy, the Academy one.

They're just like super DEI kind of shit. I mean, they're awful, dude. They were so bad. And I'm just glad that he pointed it out. And he sounded mad. And the fact that he... he reached out to the guy making it and was like, I will help. I love this world. You know, that whole universe. I want to get involved. I'll help out. All right. I'll do what you need to.

And was refused. And it was this bad. I mean, he's got, he's got a real grudge. And for good reason. And also to add to what you're saying where the dude's like, well, I don't want anyone working on this project who likes Star Trek. Disgusting. Famous final words. So many, so many, so many, franchises have taken that direction. Halo, for example, I'm a big Halo fan. Literally when 3-4-3 took over, their whole idea was like, we just don't want to hire people who like Halo and go in our own direction. Look how, look how that fucking went. You know, that is, that never goes right. Why the fuck? Just do your own thing then. Do your own fucking show. You know, how the fuck is the Orville, uh, more related to Star Trek at this point than

fucking Star Trek? Good point. Which is funny. Funny than bringing up the Orville. Yeah. You know, I met a couple of the cast of that at the airport in L.A. once. I have a picture with them. Really? Yeah. It's cool.

Seth McFarlane? No, one of the lady and one of the ladies and one of the guys. They're actually married in real life. A little vague. So whatever the couple is that's married in real life, you could Google it. I met them. And I was like, I'm a big fang. I hate to do this.

could I get a selfie with you? And they were actually cool and we took one. But I liked that show. It was good. And it was very Star Trek-y. Like, they did kind of nail it. I agree with him. They got it and they did a good job with it, for sure.

Yeah. And he was saying he got like an old producer, right? Or something? No, they basically hired like the whole old cast and crew, but not the cast, but the crew of like the old Star Trek. So that's why it had such a feel. Wasn't Norm MacDonald like a slime on that show or something?

Oh, I think he was. I'm pretty sure he was like a slime. Yeah, yeah. He had a pot. I saw some like clips of that. If you haven't seen it, it's good. It's worth watching. I'll check it out.

I heard mixed things about season one, but I heard season two was actually pretty solid. It's decent, yeah. I'll check it out. I actually, I'll tell you that I'm more of a Star Wars guy. I have to be honest. Fair enough. Star Wars is my shit.

That's a great world too. That's a great world to get into. But recently, I have been checking out next generation. And it's pretty fucking good. Yeah. It's pretty fucking good. But either way, don't mess it up. Let me ask you this about the Halo thing, though. I'm interested.

What was the big criticisms for you in that? A big, because like I like the games. I played it. I wasn't like huge into it. But I remember hearing that people were very upset. about how much he wore the helmet or something? That was pretty upsetting. Oh, dude, that's a whole other, that's the show, the Halo show.

Oh. That was just fucking terrible. You weren't talking about the show? What were you talking about? I was talking about the games. They fucked the games up? I think they fucked the games up. They fucked the games up like four games ago.

Oh, really? Ever since Halo Reach, which came out in like, what, 2010, I think. So when were they good? I think they started fucking it up during Halo 4 was the fall, because it used to be Bungy. Bungy in Halo 1 to Halo Reach. It was Halo 3, ODST,

reach, and then Bungi made Destiny and left, and then 3-4-3 Studios. And I'll just say this real quick, the downfall of any franchise, Star Wars is also guilty of this, and 343 is changing canon, is changing the fucking rules of the universe, and being, well,

actually, even though it's established that this happened and this happened, actually this and this happened instead. And you know how this war was settled and it took like three games for this war to settle? Actually, between games, it happened again and we're back into it's, it's just, it's so bullshit. It's like punching your fucking fans in the balls. That's what it feels like, you know. And then that Halo show, dude, we're like, this is just so dumb. I'll get off this tangent soon.

No, I like it. Literally master chief. So the covenant, you know the covenant? It's like the alien enemy. So reach is like a planet that they don't want the covenant to find. So they get a prisoner. I'm trying to remember the show. They get a prisoner of the covenants.

The prisoner goes to prison. And the master chief goes into the prisoner cell and then fucks the prisoner. Fucks, master A lot of people are calling them Master Cheeks Hey Ontario Come down to BetMGM casino And see what our newest exclusive The Price is Right Fortune Pig has to offer

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some bullshit. And then escaped, told the covenant that, hey, I was on reach. They're on fucking this planet over here. Then the covenant attacked the fucking planet and the whole planet fell. So which is not what at all happens in the games. But it's like, what the fuck is this writing? It makes no sense. Halo is one of my favorite franchises

so it's a whole tangent I can get on but like what the fuck there's so many franchises out there in like Star Wars Halo Star Trek that just like they can go to shit so easily because the lore in the whole universe

it's like fans really do care about it because it's so original Star Wars is so original Star Trek is so original and when people come into these and be like well, fuck the old stuff. I'm making my new thing. It's like,

who the fuck is going to like that? I just thought with Halo and I, like, I liked the setup of it. Like, the costumes were good. I thought the Pablo character was solid. You know,

they kind of matched it. I was like, I could see him being the master chief. But there was just so much, like, his emotions and how he kind of felt he was having a rough day all the time. And I'm like,

just go around. Merck and everything. Just have nothing but cool action and be a badass. That would be sweet. But it wasn't that. What's cool about the games. What's cool about the games, the whole story is that Chief is like a robot.

Like he's this super weapon the UNSC uses as the ultimate soldier. And he's like this machine where Cortana is an AI, literally a machine that's more human than him. And pretty much over the games teaches him kind of like humanity. in a sense, you know, and they bond over that. Uh-huh. And that's what I thought was really interesting. And in the games, in the fucking TV show, fucking they shit all over that and then throw it out

a wall. It's like, it's so, he was like a bit of a cry, baby. And then she was just like, what are you doing? Stop. Come here. Stop it. And he's like, I actually want to just like fuck the prisoner. Which was strange.

That whole thing was strange. You know, it's interesting. That guy, Pablo, he used to train in my jiu-jitsu gym in Santa Monica. No shit. Yeah. Yeah. He wasn't that good. He's a big guy.

I remember when I was in Austin, when I was living in Austin, they had this giant poster of Master Chief without the helmet. And so, like, you'd be walking on 6th Street and you would just see him. And I'd be like, fucking ruin the franchise. Fucking motherfucker. And I see him all the time. Yeah. People are mad at him for sure.

But I will say, great actor. He is good. He is good in a lot of movies, dude. He's great in a bunch of movies. Yeah, for sure. But just seeing like just Matt hit the character of Master Chief in the show was pissing me off. Yeah, that was annoying. I bet he's done some good stuff. I'd love to. He doesn't deserve any of this hate. He's the actor. He's not the writer. Of course, of course. I hate when people attack actors for no reason, even though I kind of low-key did. But yeah, hey, this episode, though, regardless. a halo back on track um is was really good because i'm i love film i'm a little bit of a film buff i love conspiracies this was just such a beautiful cocktail oh yeah it really was i mean he straight up said best worlds the billionaire eating babies he believes it 100 percent the cannibals

exist for sure. The codes mean it. He even made a reference to the exorcist and how there's that rape story in there. And the lady makes the reference or somebody makes a reference to be like, oh, yeah, well, I like pizza,

but I wouldn't marry it. And if that's not, that was in the 70s, dude. Like, is that a coincidence? Or is that just like really bad timing for somebody? I like pizza but I wouldn't marry it Think about that in terms of the code words I don't know how deep these roots run That one's ugly

Who talks about marrying a pizza? Yeah Well if pizza means child That's pretty fucking gross And you put it in a movie So that like really the only people that get it Are all those people in that world that are like, hey, hey, that's fun.

That's fun, you put that in there. Good times. That was so, so messed up. I thought that was an interesting take on that movie, though. The whole idea of like the director's connection with it, you know, and the whole idea of how secret messages. Spiritual filmmaking is and scriptwriting and all that where he was talking about like voice, like things just pop into his head.

Dialogue just pop. into his head. Uh-huh. It's like someone's putting it in there. Well, he said, that was really interesting. He said that every director puts in, like,

secret coded messages, basically. Yeah, that's insane. That's happening all the time. It's like, yeah, of course we do. This is what we do.

We all doing it. Yeah. Wild. I don't know. Crazy. I'm trying to think crazy world. Oh, and lastly, Epstein ordered 330 gallons of

sulfuric acid, like the day he was indicted for his island. What in the F was that? And then Jamie looked it up. That's the only time they ever ordered that for that island. So no, it wasn't a cleaning product. Maybe it was a cool science experiment or something. What the heck were they dissolving? What was on that island that they needed to really quickly get rid of? I mean, that's a very strong, 330 gallons. They had a lot of stuff they needed to get rid of. I feel like, you know, you walk in there before and it was like an Aztec bone temple or something.

Yeah. Just piles of bodies. I mean, what do you need that much for? I don't know. Like, I've been a little deep down in this iceberg, the stuff for. or Epstein. There was evidence that they were doing gene splicing as well.

Yep. They were making like Neanderthals. Like, it's real messed up where they're saying, yeah, like they were talking about making like human dog hybrids and all these like other crazy hybrids

to like fuck with kids, you know, like to scare them and who knows what else. Like who knows what else. Get the adrenom. Cromes. Yeah, because get them all riled up. It's just crazy, you know.

And this is stuff you can look up like in the files. Go on J-Mel. J-Mil's a good website. I think I showed you that. Oh, yeah, yeah. We were talking about it. Yeah. Where you can look up names.

You can look up, like if you look up pizza on J-Mel, you look up cream cheese. Like, I was sick. It's gross. The other night looking up that stuff, being like, I got to get off for a drink or something. thing. I mean, look, there was a lot of buzz around this episode. The film nerds loved it. The conspiracy people loved it. I mean, people got worked up about the flatter stuff, but like the old school Rogan people, some got uncomfortable with the conspiracies, somewhere on the edge of their seat. I mean, it brought a lot of people back to the table. And, you know, I got a bunch of messages

about how fun this was. And for me, I mean, you know, Brandon brought this up to me, like, let's review this one. I was kind of, I saw it was the Pulp Fiction guy. I was kind of interested in checking it out, but there was some other good episodes this week. I was kind of thinking of skipping over it as a major review, but as soon as I started listening to it, it grabbed my attention from the beginning. I enjoyed it a great deal. Nothing boring. Nothing boring about it. Ran it through the online AI for like looking at Reddit, Twitter and all the comments everywhere, it got a solid 8.7. An 8.7 for the online. That's a high score. I mean, I give it a solid 8 out of 10. For me, it's a solid 8. I really enjoyed this episode. I mean, yeah, I'd have him back on.

You know, I think. Well, he is. Joe literally, he's like, we got to do this again. We got to do this again. He's like, hey, it's been over three hours. We got to wrap it up. But there's more to be said. But we've got to get it again. Yeah. There's so many other conspiracy theories. So good. So good.

So check it out. Definitely. Take a look. And there's going to be more. More Epstein this week. And stay tuned. It's just getting wilder and wilder. Thank you so much.

And we'll talk to you soon. Ladies and gents. Bye. See you.