Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - 532 JRE Review of Chase Hughes

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

Chase Hughes joins Joe for a fascinating conversation on psychological manipulation, media influence, consciousness, AI, and whether modern society is being shaped less by truth and more by whoever best understands human behavior. This weeks sponsors Rappin the Rivers: Go to Eventbrite.com or Sellout Events to get your tickets for Rappin the Rivers Festival 2026, August 7th and 8th in Cardwell, Montana, featuring DaBaby, That Mexican OT, Paul Wall, Kid Ink, Young Dirty Bastard, and more. For full festival details, go to RappinTheRiversMT.com. Camping is included. Rocket Money: Go to RocketMoney.com/JRER to cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitor your spending, lower your bills, and grow your savings. Hims: Go to Hims.com/JRER for simple online access to personalized, affordable care for ED, hair loss, weight loss, and more. Draft Kings www.draftkings.com Download the DraftKings Casino app and sign up with code JRER to claim your Flex Spins and experience Cashingo—the feature you can't play anywhere else! DraftKings Casino App Apple DraftKings Casino App Android    Gambling problem? Call one eight hundred GAMBLER. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling call eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit C C P G dot org. Please play responsibly. Twenty-one plus. Physically present in Connecticut, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, West Virginia only. Void in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. Non-withdrawable Spins issued as fifty spins per day for twenty days, valid for select games only and expire each day after twenty four hours. See terms at casino dot draftkings dot com slash promos. Ends July twenty-second at eleven fifty nine PM Eastern Time. SUPPORT OUR SHOW! Head to our Patreon Check out our website at www.jrereview.com For all marketing questions and inquiries: [e-mail] Please email us here with any suggestions, comments and questions for future shows.. [e-mail]

Hey guys and welcome to another episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Review. Today we are reviewing Chase Hughes, interesting guy. And the co-host today is Rachel. What's going on, Rachael? Hi, everybody. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So this guy's interesting.

He's a smart dude. I know you said you were getting a bit bored with this episode, though. Tell me more about that. Over your head or just not that interesting. Come on. You know, I think that the topics discussed were good. I don't know. Maybe there was just like less enthusiasm coming from both parties that I just was like, like, no one's yelling and screaming.

And sometimes I need that in a podcast. He's quite a passive guy. Yeah. Maybe that was it. I mean, even when he was talking about DMT, which, I mean, he literally doing an intravenous DMT that keeps you in there for multiple hours. Remember, these trips when people do it, last five minutes talk. and then the most profound, incredibly overwhelming experiences you can imagine. He's in there for five hours, and he's talking about it.

You know, he was using words like it was, it's amazing. It's beyond anything you could ever imagine. But he almost could have been describing going to the grocery store with the sort of energy that he brought forward. Yeah, he's like, it was the most profound experience of my entire life. It couldn't have been more real. It's indescribable. Yeah. And I mean, on that topic, I mean, something that he never really got to that they didn't really discuss was like, what is like, yeah, you can have the most profound experience of your life with a five minute trip on DMT. So why would you, what is the benefit of doing it for five hours? Is it that much more profound? Or like, is it genuinely just like something people want to say they can do? Like I was kind of lost there because I know the power of DMT. And I realize that. there's value to doing it.

But for an extended period of time like that, I'm not sure if that is at all necessary. And maybe it's just like to say you can do it. I don't know. What did you think? I think he's just exploring deeper. You know, there's a Dr. Rick Strassman, who they talked about from UNM,

that first got, I assume, FDA approval to do DMD, DMT testing. Okay. And he did it under the guys that he wanted to prove that it was bad for you, knowing that's the only way he could have got the experiment approved. And they did intravenous with their subjects. So they were in for a much longer period of time. And obviously the trip then is more profound and deeper and his hope was to just kind of gather more information from it.

But, you know, the big takeaway was it doesn't seem like going in there for longer, even on those doses, had really like a negative lasting effect other than it was just mind-blowing and profound. And what Rick found and why he kind of pulled away from doing that research is it was just honestly blowing his mind that so many of the participants from all walks of life, were coming back describing, seeing very similar things that were all out of this world. Yeah. And in the same senses, like loss of time and space, feeling like you actually went somewhere

else a long way away. You're speaking to God or whatever the entities were. I think he just wanted to go there and experience it. Yeah. I guess for me, like the, there is always this concept of not knowing. knowing whether it was real or if it was truly a hallucination, like, what is reality anymore after these experiences? And he touched on that. He said he had a hard time sort of coming back into the real world and identifying, okay, this is real and that wasn't. Because it was so profound and so, you know, I mean, he was in there for probably what felt like half a lifetime.

Sure. You know, those experiences typically are brief and they feel long and very impactful. So then you stretch that out to five and a half hours, which is like, why not just six? Like five and a half? Come on. But, you know, that extended amount of time, I cannot imagine how difficult it is to come back and be like, okay, now I'm just like back to everyday life. You know, you've got kids. You've got a job. You've got to do the dishwasher.

Taxes. Yeah. And so for me, I don't know if it appeals to me at all. I don't think it has anything to do with the fear of what's to happen in those experiences. Like, I think it would be interesting to see what came up and what, you know, came to light in those, in that trip. But for me, I think I would rather just stay in this realm and just, like, continue wondering. I don't know.

I think there's some magic of, like, I've never tripped like that. I've never had, like, a profound psychedelic experience. and maybe I'm missing out. I don't know. Look, they're not for everybody, for sure. And especially way he described one of those entities, like tearing into his brain and his heart and, you know, digging around. I was kind of surprised when Rogan said,

well, did you get checked when you got back to see if anything was better? And he's like, no, because they'd have to do an MRI and that's a lot of radiation. And I think I'd be curious. I'd be super curious. Maybe he just allowed it to be what it was in the hopes that it's, maybe there's a placebo effect to that in a sense. It's like he, even if it was, let's say it's all a hallucination, right? And there's multiple schools of thought on this.

Like this could be a different place. These entities could be real, these sorts of things. But even if it is just a complete hallucination, He has this memory now of something grander and more powerful than him coming in from what I assume he thinks, some sort of surgical intervention has happened. And maybe that has a positive effect. That was quite interesting that he talked about his wife having preyed over the DMT and, you know, whatever, say, fix his brain in his heart. And then he just very nonchalantly, Rogan's like, oh, is something wrong.

wrong with your brain? He goes, oh, yeah, I have this disease. And, like, again, so, like, so level, like, not a lot of, like, oh, yeah, like, I've got this really crunt. He's just like, yeah, I've got this. And it was, like, so monotone. And again, maybe that's why I felt a little, like, uninterested in the beginning. I feel like it got more interesting for me towards the end. I just don't think that anything really shocks this guy. I mean, being basically, like, you know, the guy that trains CIA style, Cyop manipulation. Like, he just, he knows so much about all the wacky things that happen in the world that maybe he's just unbothered by it all.

He's like, yeah, saw that happened. It's true. Moving on. Yeah. That's brutal, though, those seizures that he has. Yeah. I mean. So it's.

It's like a degenerative brain problem that he's suffering with. Is that what it was? Yeah. Methylene blue turns out. That was crazy. I'm talking about all the things. If you take methylene blue, you can't take. Or if you already are taking something, you can't take methylene blue because of the counteracting effects.

I mean, you can't eat certain cheeses, like aged cheese if you take methylene blue. But, yeah, I mean, it's interesting because... Having, you know, I'm a fortunate person. I've never had to consider what a degenerative disease would do to me and how it would affect my life or my brain or anything like that. And like at what point I would seek, you know, maybe controversial or exploratory treatments for. But he's had to do it and he's had a lot of success with it. I mean, he's like it's the only thing that helps me. And then I stop taking it and I have a seizure within 24 hours.

It's like that is. I would 100% take it. Oh, yeah. I wouldn't wait for anybody else to tell me, oh, it's good. It's bad. You shouldn't. I'd be like, no. He's like, I just live with blue toilet bowls.

You know, my toilets bowl stained. That's what he said. And then, you know, he's like, it's fine. My brain still works. I'm still alive. I've taken it before. It's very strange to have like bluey green peas. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. But, hey, if it works, it works. And I mean, I think that's part of the conversation around, you know, or it kind of aligns with the conversation that nowadays, you know, this mistrust that we have with the healthcare system, it is really important to advocate for yourself to do your own research, you know, experimental therapies.

I feel like are so much more prominent than they were even like 20 years ago. Right. Maybe I'm, maybe not, but like in my impression, as having grown up over the last 20 years, you know, going from being an adolescent to an adult, like I felt like a lot of the experimental treatments that you heard about were all having to do with cancer.

Like it was like everything was cancer, everything is cancer. But now there's like experimental treatments for literally anything, you know, acne. It's like you can just like try anything. And, um, podcast is brought to you by Rapin the Rivers Festival 2026. Filtth and Fowl, 4.06 Glass, Apogee Gardens and Dirty Jones present Rapping the River Festival 2026. Montana's hottest music festival is back featuring live music from De Baby, the Mexican OT, Paul Wall, Kid Inc., and many more with special presenter, Young Dirty Bastard. I'm telling you, this festival is going to be incredible. I'm going to be there, a bunch of my friends are. Get up to Montana, see everything it has to offer, all its

beauty, it's such an incredible place. And the recent edition is day ticket. So if you can't go up for the whole weekend, you can buy for either just Friday or just Saturday night. Get your tickets now at event bright.com or sellout events. Camping is included. For all details, go to Rapping the Riversmt.com. Rapping the Rivers 26 Music Festival, August 7th and 8th in Cadwell, Montana. Don't miss it. What do you get when you combine bingo style bonuses and slots?

Kasingo. Afking's Casino is the exclusive place. to play casino slots. New casino players play $5 and get 1,000 flex spins. Claim 50 spins a day for 20 days on your choice of over 100 slots, including the exclusive Kasingo collection. Download the Draft Kings Casino app and sign up with code JRER to claim your flex spins and experience Kasingo, the feature you can't play anywhere else. crown is yours. In partnership with Draft King's Casino, gambling problem

call 1-800 gambler. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling 888789 777 or visit ccpg.org please play responsibly. 21 plus physically present in Connecticut, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, West Virginia

only, void in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply non-withdrawable spins issued as 50 spins per day for 20 days. Valid for select games only and expire each day after 24 hours. See terms at casino. Dotrfkings.com slash promos. Ends July 22nd at 1159 p.m. Eastern Time.

Yeah, I mean, sometimes things work and they stick, but just because they're not FDA approved, you know, a lot of people are still really afraid of them. Sure, or you just can't get access to them. which is nice that that's opening up. Yeah. And with the release of the, I mean, the recent psychedelic act that was passed that Rogan was part of.

Right. Now there's also, you know, documentation in there that allows people to have access to experimental care. They just have to like sign away their rights. Yeah. But at least they can get it. And if you're in a really bad spot and you've got nothing else, I mean, look, I don't believe for a second that they're giving people things that are like,

well, this is 50-50 if they're straight up kill you. So more than likely it's not going to make anything worse, or at least that's the hope. Right. And in a way, that's also a great way for them to gain research. It's kind of scary, I guess, to be a guinea pig in this scenario. But if you need it and you're sick, I mean, better than nothing. better than waiting around forever. And that sort of makes me question

like the whole DMT experience. It's like, is there something like for him? Was that experience just experimental? Or was it like, oh, this could potentially fix your degenerative brain disease through manifestation, praying over the DMT, you know, whatever it is. Like with these ayahuasca treatments where it's like people go in

for like really severe alcoholism or, you know, drug addiction. It's like they have like this intention to come out. better than when they went in. And with the DMT, I'm like, what is the goal? What's the end goal? Just to, like, be more enlightened because is that worth the experimental risk of that? I don't know.

Yeah. It's, you know, again, a prolonged intravenous DMT treatment that makes you come out feeling like you don't even know if life and reality is where you're at. Is that like, what's the value? Sure. And what are people, is there some qualifying factor that people should meet? You know, oh, you're going to pray over it to make sure that, you know, it hopes that your brain gets better, even if it is a placebo effect.

But this helps because of manifestation. Yeah, he didn't really describe what the goal of that was other than he did say that he took some sort of, was it Alzheimer's drug along with it to help possibly his recall of the event. afterwards because it's supposedly these trips are so fleeting it's even though it seems super real and super vivid and um massively overwhelming like while you're in it oh my god i can i'm never going to forget this incredible experience and you get back and you do it's like a dream so i think what he was trying to do is just have maximum recall when he got back and he also alluded to the idea of trying to bring something back with him, whether it be knowledge or I guess it could only be

something he saw or learned there, that could add credibility to the space, like to separate it from a dream state into like an actual other place. But that's very difficult to test for, I would imagine, because it's such a different experience. Yeah. I know. My mind was kind of boggled with it. I'm like, that feels like a lot, you know? I mean, I suppose in an experimental sense, he's sort of just testing the value is the experiment, right? It's testing the capabilities and the potential combinations and someone who maybe like is in battling severe mental illness in some way. It's like, oh, you're like a good lab rat to go in and see, because maybe there is someone who's had a lot of traumatic experiences and they're able to go and they're able to use these

combination of drugs and hallucinogenics to like evolve out and away from those traumas. And he's just like, yeah, just kind of like a good baseline for that. Sure. Yeah. Well, he's very level-headed, it seems. He's very good at kind of describing experiences and he has great understanding of people and kind of like the psychology of people. Yeah.

So maybe he was hoping that that was just a high level of skill set that he could take into this. Yeah. But when they were talking afterwards about how, you know, is it that the universe created consciousness, like we think about it. It's like, you know, the big bangs, the planets came, and then much later there was life and there was consciousness. Or is it that consciousness is what can perceive the universe, almost like there was no. nothing around before consciousness. And there are like physicists and philosophers that entertain that idea. It's like basically without an observer, nothing exists.

If there's nothing to observe something, the matter or any of the space around us, it doesn't even exist. Yes. How mind blowing is that? Yeah, my mind's melted. I don't know. I have a hard time thinking about consciousness and galaxies and things like that. It's a bit big.

I know I'm not alone. And I don't see myself as like a dumb person. Oh, look, let's not pretend that any of us can grasp it. But it's like, you can just be like, I mean, all I can say is like, whoa, like that is intense. And it really kind of stresses me out that like I can't wrap my head around it more. And, you know, there was a guest on a couple of weeks ago talking about how, like, we think we can comprehend the size of, you know, the galaxies or the universe or whatever. And even the scientists can't. They just understand the math that can explain it, but they still can't in their heads. They're not, their brains and their consciousness isn't different than ours.

They can still only understand the math of how big the universe is that they don't understand. understand they can't really grasp the physical size of it because we've never seen it. We are not observing that. Yeah. I mean, look, we really can't do it with time either. No. We don't do it well. No.

It's like if you look at how we know most of our own history goes back to three thousand years, something like that. And then there's signs of us being around a bit longer, but nothing's well recorded. So we just have this concept of like, okay, that was a thousand. years ago and 2,000 years ago, we built this. And then there's like this jump to maybe some short stories of 10,000 years ago, in the Ice Age and Sabretooth Tigers. And then you're like, oh, I guess there's a caveman and woolly mammoths. The next jump after that, we don't know much about that story until we get to dinosaurs. Then we're talking 160 plus million years ago.

yet we we just see it as a time what's the matter i don't know um sorry we had to take a quick break there rachel had to aggressively pee and we had to stop apart um what what were even saying oh i really do like that they kind of you know along with like sciops and all those sorts of things that they brought up, that they re-explored the whole CNN cancellation thing with Rogan. Now, obviously, Rogan's gone over this many, many times. But I think the further he gets away from it now, the more he's willing to talk about it. Because, you know, he would talk about the video often where they made him look gray and he wasn't gray and, you know, they were really able to kind of debunk that.

And he's also discussed how CNN underestimated and the other news outlets underestimated the size of Rogan show. And that just kind of trumped everything because he was able to lay out this is the truth. This is what happened. And he gets to repeat it for many, many hours a week if he wanted to. So he was just going to win that. Assuming it was true. Right. Right.

Assuming that he wasn't trying to cover up for something. and it doesn't seem like he was. Well, he didn't go into a lot of the Spotify stuff. Now, I don't know if that was an agreement from Spotify with him, and it was like, listen, just... If something feels off in the bedroom, a lot of guys will blame stress, lack of sleep, getting older, whatever it is, instead of actually doing something about it.

But the reality is ED is way more common than most people think. And now getting treatment is actually simple. That's what I like about. Hymns. You don't have to deal with awkward appointments or standing around at the pharmacy. You just complete a quick online intake, a licensed healthcare provider reviews it, and if prescribed treatment ships directly to your door in discrete packaging. They offer Sildenafil, which is a generic for Viagra, available through Hymns at up to 95% less than the brand name version. And if that's not right for you, they've got additional.

options too. To get simple online access to personalize affordable care for ED, hair loss, weight loss, and more, visit hymns.com slash JRER. That's Hymns.com slash JRE for your free online visit. Hymns.com slash JRER. Prescription required, see website for details and important safety information. Sildenafil is the generic version of Viagra. Viagra is a registered trademark of Viatris Speciality LLC. Hymn's is not affiliated with or endorsed by Vutris.

Man, one thing I realized recently is I used to avoid looking at my finances entirely. I'd be busy with the podcast, clients, travel, family stuff. And then suddenly I'd look at my account and think, how the hell am I paying for three different streaming services I don't even use anymore? I literally found duplicate subscriptions I'd forgot existed. That's honestly why I started using Rocket Money. It puts everything in one place so you can actually see what's going on without feeling overwhelmed. It tracks subscriptions, spending bills, all of it.

And if there's something you don't want anymore, you can cancel it right inside the app with a couple of taps. Rocket Money has already helped save users over $880 million in canceled subscriptions, which is insane. Rocket Money is a personalized finance app that helps find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at RocketMoney.com slash J-R-E-R. That's rocketmoney.com slash J-R-E-R. RocketMoney.com slash J-R-E-R.

You know, keep this somewhat underwrapped, but we've got your back. and you're not going to get canceled and blah, blah, blah. And kudos to Spotify for that. But this episode, he kind of got into the orchestrated, coordinated attack on him that seemed much larger than even I knew existed, which is shocking. Yeah. I mean, presidents, ex-presidents are reaching out the spot. I mean, that's a ton of pressure on Spotify.

They could have eased... Now, I guess the thing is, I mean, they believed in Rogan, they just paid a shitload of money for Rogan. And also, I think that very quickly after this, his... They could see all the metrics. His pod was just exploding with popularity.

So they... But they still had to back him. They still had to make kind of an anti-corporal and say, no, we've got his back. He's allowed to say what he wants and... we stand by him. Yeah, I don't disagree, but I also can see like a different viewpoint, like, um, you know, talking about the sci ops and like business, um, the impression of a business.

And like Spotify is, you know, it's not an American company. And he did note that they were not involved. They don't have to answer to American politics the same way an American company would have to and be like, oh, this is happening. You know, ex-American presidents or involved and whatever. like if it was an American company, they may have made a different decision. That's true. I also feel like they, it could have been, oh, we support you and like we're going to take the risk on you.

I think it was we've already taken a risk on you and we have to follow through with our business investment. We have to support you because we've already paid you. We've already decided and we've done the math and we've seen the metrics and we have extrapolated out your viewership and your influence. We know that you're going to return a profit for us, which is all. all that matters to Spotify because, I mean, they kind of, I don't want to say they have a monopoly, but in my mind, there are definitely a superior streaming service for music specifically. But, I mean, anyone who's used, like, Apple Music and, like, you know, Pandora recently, like, can agree with that. But I genuinely think that it was probably more of a business decision,

a financial business decision, than it had anything to do with the politics of what was going on in this situation. because of the amount of money that they had invested in him. And I don't know. I'm not Spotify. I couldn't say 100%. But if I had to guess and bet money on it, it was that. Yeah.

Well, listen, whatever it was, there was enough for Joe to really give them his loyalty. And I know in his recent contract, he's been able to expand now into being back on Apple, being back on more YouTube and monetizing in different areas. But, you know, it's still a contract with Spotify for whatever that is. Yeah. And, you know, loyalty goes a long way with Rogan. Yeah. And I don't, who knows?

I think Rogan's right. There could have been a chance he couldn't have survived it otherwise. I mean, he would have pivoted, like he said, if they kicked him off YouTube, he could have gone to Rumble. and then Rumblestock would have gone through the roof. I think he is, I don't want to say uncancelable, anybody could be, but he kind of has that escape velocity power to where he's probably on the other side. Yeah, and that was probably the business decision angle, you know, that played into it.

It's like, well, we could have stand strong with morals and we could support, you know, party, not, you know, him, but at the same time, like, we're not going to come out on top just because we have high morals. Like, that's not, unfortunately, that's not always the, like, the bottom line doesn't really care that much about morals all the time. I mean, obviously in business, there is, um, some of that. Like, there's an, there's an equation for sure. There's, you know, you got to, you want to reach the right target audience.

You want to, you know, share values and beliefs with, you know, your, your biggest audience but at the same time like I think they what they did spoke volumes supporting him but I think it probably was more of like a benefit to them after making the decision than it was like a strategic thing right and they you know they have shareholders too right so there's no way that it could have been completely um just oh we back him because we believe in him like that's I don't think any company with shareholders can do that They have, their obligation is always to the shareholders and it's always to make as much money and pay out, you know, those, those benefits to their shareholders. So there's, yeah. Unfortunately, in a perfect world, you'd be like, oh, you just, every company just like stands on really high morals and, like, believes in good things and sports good people. I'm not saying Joe was wrong in this situation, but, you know, it could be anyone with any company and anyone that's a major, you know, a spokesperson for a company. And it's like, if they've already been paid out, they're probably. going to back them.

Yeah. I was just looking actually at the Spotify stock right now because I was curious if they were even public or I didn't even know. In the last year, they've gone down 40%. Interesting. It's like a slow, steady, gradual drop. I wonder why. I don't know.

I won't be buying that one, no. Yeah, it'd be interesting to put that up against, you know, some of the other streaming services and, you know, YouTube and the other. media outlets and see like who's gone up and who's gone down and kind of compare. But either way, no doubt they played a big role in him doing that. And look, a big thing that he did, which it just is a testament to his staying power, usually when a podcast will transition to a new contractor, a new hosting site, which is part of that, you do a redirect.

You take your RSS feed with you. So your whole audience that's already found you and listens to you goes with you. Every show does this. There's no show that I know that is ever just said, oh, I'm making the same show but on a brand new feed and everyone has to re-log into it. Well, that's what Rogan did with Spotify. I mean, he understood and believed that his audience would significantly drop when he makes the Spotify deal. Now, he was making boatloads of cash. It was 100 million up front and possibly 100 on the back end.

But he had to grow it again. And there's a lot of people that when something like that happens, and this is why consistency is huge in podcasting, because you miss a month and a lot of people want to subscribe. Because they're just like, oh, I didn't see any episodes that I've got enough shows to listen to. I'm just going to, you know, and you just don't think to like click that show again.

Well, everyone had to go find Rogan on Spotify. A lot of people had to therefore buy the Spotify because she didn't want the ads. So there was a huge kind of boundary to that entry. And it didn't make a difference. Yeah. Everyone still followed him, signed up, and he's bigger than ever. Yeah. It's so funny.

You're just talking about unsubscribing. I maybe it's just me. I absolutely would never go unsubscribe to something. I don't have my life together enough to be like, oh, I haven't heard from this podcast. Let me go unsubscribe. Well, I don't think it's so much that. It's just you stop, you just stop listening to it.

Yeah, I suppose. There's a gap in there. And now you've got to feed with like 10 shows on. And you're just like, oh, I haven't listened to this one forever. I'm just going to move it off my window, depending on what your podcast. Also, I know I'm not alone with unsubscribing from emails, you know? Like, I'd rather just delete it every single, delete the spam every day, then go through the process to, like, put my email.

in at the unsubscribe box. You should unsubscribe. I know, but my... Just click one button. My life is chaos. You know this. It's always at the bottom. Just click it off. I just delete a lot of emails every day.

Mm-hmm. I wonder though, really, with a younger generation what that's done. I mean, CNN's numbers have plummeted and but they have been doing for years. It's just like at this point now with the dopes that I've seen that present on that news station, like what, what can they even do at this point? to win people over? I don't even know who is still watching CNN.

Well, I think probably the most of their viewership and engagement comes from social media, from YouTube, from replays, not from live news. I mean, you know, it is interesting. It's like we've come like full circle.

So we've had like, you know, news obviously used to be the news. All the news came from the news stations. And those were the biggest people, the biggest influencers in the world, right? Were these news people talking about good and bad and scary things happening in the world?

And then they started, You know, and then obviously I think a lot of the mistrust came from COVID and, you know, the misinformation that was spread and how misinformation about the vaccine was put out there and the messaging behind it. A lot of money involved, of course. And then they sort of change their format as they talked about on this podcast to like a podcast format. So they have a lot of interviews and they have a lot of people like trying to. And they're bad. And they're bad podcasts. But it's like they're trying to rebuild trust with an audience that now only trust.

podcast because it's freelancers, right? People that are not under contract with a news company that don't take, you know, billions or hundreds of millions of dollars of sponsorships from pharmaceutical companies, from, you know, big Procter & Gamble brands and things like that. They're, you know, individuals, they get to say no. And they just, they, it's not all about the bottom line, right? And then it was so funny to hear, oh, yeah, this guy, Chase, he's just like, he's bought his own news station.

So after all of that, after the whole pivot and this whole turn upside down of like news is now through the podcast and the news is now a podcast. And then now this guy who's on a podcast bought a news station. I was just, I honestly thought that was quite comical. That was like probably one of my favorite parts of the whole episode was, you know. And again, he was so nonchalade. He just, oh, yeah, I bought a news station. And Joe's like, wait, what? Tell me more.

Yeah. Like I need to know. And he was like, yeah, we just do the news. And he's like, where, how? Where are you? Where can I watch this? And like, he like, he like. knew he had all the answers he just like wasn't like promoting it so it was kind of funny but

it was yeah interesting full circle well he kind of suggested it like he bought a tv station which seemed different that's what he said it's like do you get a channel then right do you have a tv channel because that's what i was thinking maybe i'm thinking too old school yeah yeah but he just like bought basically what is a studio yeah he bought a tv production studio a news production And then because he has a YouTube channel, he was like, I'll just make YouTube's. But yeah, it's all just on the internet, right? Like, it's not actually on the news. He couldn't add it to his existing one because I guess that messes up the algorithm,

which I feel like in a way is a bit of a shame because it's like it's your show. Yeah. You've got access to 2 million subscribers on this one channel you have, yet you can't introduce something new that's different. Right. And, you know, whatever. I mean, YouTube is in charge of that. I guess that's just how it rolls.

I was looking at, it's called Station 1, and I was watching some episodes. This morning is pretty decent. It's got like a cool format. It looks very newsy. It really does. The lady that does a lot of presenting, you know, you can kind of tell it's internet news. Yeah. There's like a little bit of a different feel about it.

But who knows, it's new. I'm sure they're going to improve. Right now it's at 36. subscribers. I think it's jumped up. Something around 20, close to 20,000 since Rogan's episode, which no surprise there. But it's always cool to have access to like a different style of news. Totally. And the internet will decide if it's good and if it lasts.

Hopefully it does. Hopefully it's useful. And we, you know, people can stay on it. Yeah. But along with that and what you were saying about CNN, and how people don't trust it and a lot of news like that really kind of praise on your fears, you know. Social media is doing a ton of that just in general, right? And he talked about the dangers of social media, how it like rewards anger in a way and really builds up content by spreading these different narratives.

and it's so easy to let your algorithm go there too. Yeah. Like you've got to be so careful what you're scrolling through. It really does put the doom part in the doom scrolling when you're just watching like really unhinged negative shit on Instagram. Yeah. And I think something I noticed the other day, maybe yesterday, I can't remember.

But I was going through posts and I found. found myself enjoying the comments, the rage comments and the people's opinions about the topic more than the information and the topic itself, right? Like it was like, oh, this thing happened. And like, I just came for the comments, you know? And that's a concept now where it's like people want to know what other people think about this. They're not even really creating their own opinions about it.

And I was like, I've got to stop doing this because I'm creating more overwhelmed for myself about like already there's this. distrust of the system that we have. And I think some of it's healthy, but some of it is probably creates more stress in my life than I need and then it's necessary because some of the things are just completely out of my control.

But I linger and I focus on what are other people thinking about this? What are other people angry about? Should I be angry about that too? Like, should I think it's funny? Should I think this is sad? Like, so I think, comments are kind of like a big

pitfall of scrolling on social media. It's like trying to see. I mean, obviously funny comments. That's great. Right? Like when you Sometimes there's some great comments. Sometimes they're great. And I get really deep. But, you know, when it's like an anger one or it's like a political something, I'm like, this is like really unhealthy. Like I obviously have my own opinions

about it. And I'm not trying to like live in an echo chamber by any means. I just, I need to like do my own like research. But you see those accounts that have no picture. on their profile and then you look at the account and they haven't posted anything and they have like 36 followers and then you also see some of their comments and they're just some of the nastiest cruel like nobody would speak like that yeah like either an angry drunk guy or like a four-year-old having a tantrum it's just like the worst disgusting things ever and you and you know for sure they're out there just they have a regular life probably a regular account too with their family photos on and then just this hidden one that they use just

to release some gross bullshit into the universe. Well, there's either a bad or it's a bot and so it's not even like a real person's opinion or it's not like it's not a real representation of the number of people that feel this way. It's one person that's using bots to create a narrative that more people care and support their opinion on it. Right. So, you know, one person having a hundred or a thousand bought accounts or an organization or whatever, a brand saying, oh, we want to continue to push the narrative that, oh, we disagree with this or that we think this is really bad or that we think this is really good.

Right. Whatever they support or don't support. And Rogan mentioned that. He did. And it's every time I hear it, it's like new to me because I'm like, that can't. Social media is for people. Everyone has their own account and it's, you know, keep up with your friends and your family. Like, I'm just, I mean, ignorance is bliss, right?

Like, when you can just pretend, like, everyone out there is genuine and, like, wholesome and it's just, like, doing their best. But that's really not the case. Some people just want to do their worst. Like, people really want to do the worst for the world. And I think that some of these bots are a really good avenue for these individuals or these organizations to do their worst. Oh, for sure. Because just then, you know, you're like, oh, they said the nastiest thing possible. It's like you're thinking people are thinking this, but in reality it's not.

It's just like a way. Oh, I think it's I think it's some people too writing some awful things for sure. But I mean when when Elon bought Twitter, he had these analysts in and he said it could be upwards of like 70% of the users were bought. It's crazy. Meaning that's like governments, corporations, big organizations, pushing narratives in such a way. that they've outnumbered the people they're even trying to persuade. I mean, how can you even, and it was hidden. People didn't know this was happening.

They knew bots existed, bots were on there, but to that degree, I mean, if seven out of 10 users were bots, that are programmed to change someone's opinion, I mean, you're completely outnumbered. You're not going to win. They can post more than you. They could probably be more convincing. Or they could just do it time and time again.

the longer you use that system, which was Twitter at the time, eventually it's just going to pull you down whatever rabbit hole. Have you ever heard of you've seen, I'm sure, the very basic experiment in psychology, learn it in like Psych 101, the elevator experiment where people, you know, there's 11 people are involved in an experiment and 10 of them are plants. And they go into an elevator and they stand facing the back and set out the door. And so when someone that isn't a plant or someone that's being the, you know, the lab rat here, they go in and they're like, oh, everyone else is doing this. So I need to do this. Even though, like, I've never in my life done this and I've always ridden the elevator a certain way. And I know for a fact, I have to leave walking out this side, this door. They'll still turn around and stand the other way because we're just so, as humans, are so easily influenced by other people.

And I think it should be absolutely criminal, these bought accounts, because it's, again, it's a complete misrepresentation of society's viewpoints, opinions, and like what humans think and say and how they act. And it's a kind of an abomination, honestly. It should, I really wish that it was eliminated as a possibility. But I realize it's just part of the reality of social media and makes me even more scared, like, how influential it is for young people. You know, they're thinking that everyone out there, these bots, these AI people, these characters that are not real individuals. And there's so many of them. There's hundreds of these AI women and men that look a certain way. And it's like, oh, this is the way the world looks.

This is how I have to look. I need to do it too. It's tribal thinking. It takes a lot of energy and bravery to act against what the tribe is doing, right? what the group is doing. Right. And there was a cool experiment I saw that was the same thing where they had five people in a room and the one per, all of them were plants except one person who was answering last.

And then they would just show these different shapes and lengths and be like which one is longer, which is this shape and which is that. And they would get some of them right. But then they started systematically getting them all wrong, saying that they, this one is the longest, the other one is the shortest, and it's obviously not. And the look on the participant's faces, like there was some strange looks and they were looking around and trying to figure it out. But eventually they almost all started to just agree with the rest of the group.

Totally. Because it's like, well, maybe there's something I'm missing. You start doubting yourself. You start thinking, I can't be the only one that's not. I mean, it takes a real confident, assertive person to be. like, guys, that's wrong. That's the shortest one. Yeah.

And you put it like, all eyes are on you after that. Yeah. So governments know this. Big corporations know this. You get enough bots pointed in one direction. I mean, you're going to get so many people following you. The few that are brave enough to speak out, their voice will be too small. Yeah.

Unless it's a character like Joe Rogan that has a freaking podcast and then good luck. Yeah. Good luck. Yeah. He's just going to be like, this is bullshit and this is why. It is wild how influential other humans are to other humans. Like, you know, I find this, this is a bit of a personal story. But, like, I've recently sort of given up alcohol, just like turned 30, started getting hung over, like, very viciously and was like, I don't want to drink regularly anymore.

Right. And one, when you stop drinking, then you, like, lose a tolerance for alcohol. And I even experience this, you know, when you're out and you're like with other people that are drinking, you're like, I'm going to drink. Like, it's a social thing. I've drink, you know, it was like my whole personality in my 20 is like, I'm going to drink, right? And then I regret it. And I do this many times over. And even still, I'm probably going to do it again, even though every time I say, I'm not, I'm not drinking anymore. Like, you know, everyone said it. I'm never drinking again. But like, you're so, we are so easily influenced by other individuals. It's like I'm willing to like legit, like poison myself and feel like

crap for two days and like have a super uncomfortable 48 hours just to not like just to like do what other people are doing right just to kind of fit in that is that's a very innocent like example but yeah just to fit in and it is similar though and look some of that though isn't really any individual's fault because they often don't have good alternatives at bars either you end up drinking like 14 Diet Cokes and you're just like oh yeah well when I was pregnant I was like, I'm just going to drink regular soda. And I drink like four Dr. Peppers. And then I would be sick from the sugar, you know, and they gained 60 pounds.

Like it was just, you know, nine months of that. And then, yeah, so yeah, you're right. No good alternatives. There really should be more. I mean, but yeah, it's like, it's fun. You want to be involved. You want to be a part of the group. The tribe mentality.

It's like everyone's doing it. I should do it. Pressure is real. And I think it comes down to something that he was talking about where Chase was talking about, you know, why people believe that they're thinking. for themselves. Yeah. Because in a way you are, but who knows what the, the kind of catalyst of that thought is. Yeah. Like, why did I even go down this where it? Was I having a bad day? You know, am I being somewhat manipulated without even realizing? Did I see something on social

media yesterday? They got me all worked up. Like, how many times have you talked to people that are like massively worked up about some point politically or otherwise that doesn't seem to affect them at all. Yeah. And they're talking about it like someone just cut them off in traffic. They're furious. They just got trained by watching something on the news. Yeah.

That's what it is. They like can only really like regurgitate exactly what they heard. They have no real genuine like thoughts over it. And when people come in with that energy too, good luck trying to give them a counterpoint. It doesn't matter what. It'd be like, oh, no, I saw that. It wasn't like that. It was something else.

It's just almost not even worth it. the time. It's funny, we have a mutual friend that is very much like this. And they're, you know, it's like their whole personality to like be upset about these things that are going on into like they've changed like a lot about themselves to be to kind of live this narrative that they're hearing and learning about because they resonate with some element of it. But like they don't really feel that way. And they actually like kind of feel the opposite way. But there's like something about it. They're like, I want to be like this almost. And so they just yeah, yeah, regurgitate. word for word what they hear and it you know they're not a bad person they're just they've just

fallen into it there's something kind of powerful though and you know kind of like assuring about being certain about a point yeah and being passionate about it even if you really haven't thought it through all that well or it doesn't even sit with your values and then it just kind of becomes a part of you. Yeah. And yeah, it's it's a slippery, you know, it's a, it's a trap. It's a slippery slope. And I think we've all been guilty of that at some point. Yeah, I think something you just said, you know, there was a show that was called like living in blue zones or how to live to be 100 or something like that. And they talk about how like it's really important as a human to have a purpose and a passion. And it's like part of longevity and living a long time. I think every human sort of craves that.

So if you don't have a purpose, you find a passion for. something. Sure. So, like, identifying your purpose is really important. Oh, I do something good. I like to do charity work or I like to teach children or whatever. I like to whatever it is, clean carpets. Yeah.

Beaching and being angry about world politics is not a good passion to have. But that people will, if they don't have a purpose, then they'll find a passion for something that's maybe not healthy or that, like, they wouldn't have found otherwise. It's very true. So it's one, you know, replacing one thing or relax something with something. That's right. Yeah, no, not that note. Let's wrap it up. I mean, Chase was awesome. It's cool to see him back on. I wish he'd gone into the DMT stuff. Kind of a little more just expanded on what he was hoping to gain. And I kind of felt like the whole episode was going to go that way. But he wanted to jump over to UFC 250 in that experience. And fair enough. That's a cool question. I would have asked Joe about that because that seemed like an incredible event. And, you know, that's why we did the special episode on it. But. hopefully his health issues don't get significantly worse and then he stays healthy.

I really like the guy. I like watching a lot of his videos online. He has super interesting interviews with other people where he's like teaching them about psychology and how to analyze things. Yeah, very smart dude. And I enjoyed this one a lot. Well, thank you all for listening. We appreciate you guys. And tune in next week.

Later. Thanks, y'all.