Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - A Joe Rogan Experience Review 183

Episode Date: October 26, 2019

This week we review podcast 1366 Richard Dawkins and 1368 Edward Snowden. Richard Dawkins  is an English ethologist, evolutionary biologist, and author. He is an emeritus fellow of New College, Oxford, and was the University of Oxford's Professor for Public Understanding of Science from 1995 until 2008. Edward Snowden is an American whistleblower who copied and leaked highly classified information from the National Security Agency in 2013 when he was a Central Intelligence Agency employee and subcontractor. Join us for a special international episode where Adam and Mark discuss politics and religion. It might be a recipe for a horrid Thanksgiving, but it makes for a great podcast!  Check out these links for some fascinating supplemental info on this week's podcast.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins Richard Dawkins' New Book: Outgrowing God: A Beginner's Guide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_Wind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect_America_Act_of_2007 Follow us on Instagram at www.instagram.com/joeroganexperiencereview Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6ilK4Zrqk2ZeowbOo7pXgw? Please email us here with any suggestions and questions for future shows..

Escapate como el homasotel abolónia desde 299 euros y descubre la región de Italia en Millea, Romana. Descubre sus ciudades del arte, sus rutas en bicicleta y sus playas. En Millea, Romana es tan lista para recibirte. Contrata tu viaje con lasminit.com. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review What a bizarre thing we've created Now with your host, Adam Thorn, and Mark Hampton This might either be the worst podcast or the best one of all time Hello And welcome

Hello and welcome to I'm gonna say a very important and special episode of the JRE review Good morning from Meemark and good morning good night from you. It's almost my bedtime. What time is it there? It's like 11 so I'm in Paris France. Yeah, you're in Paris So I'm in Paris France. Yeah, you're in Paris. You'll back home in good old sunny California. Good old. And we're trying to make this work. Good old US of A where you're you're missing out man. There's a couple of fires today. Big old billowing smoke from my balcony. It was a little scary. Oh, they have fires again. Yep, it was pretty windy. All right, well, I'm glad I got out of town. Yeah, you got out of the right time.

There we go. There we go. So today's episodes, podcasts, 1366, Richard Dawkins, big fan, have been for a long time. Very interesting guy, just super smart, a very important person. And in a lot of ways, even if I was a religious person or more religious, I think he still would be that

because of the way that he creates the dialogue on the other side of the conversation for religion. And then 1368, Edward Snowden. I had no idea this guy was coming on. It was a truly incredible podcast of which I think Joe said like four words. Which he should. At best. Because nobody was listening, nobody was listening to what Joe had to say on that episode. It was, it was Edward Snowden's three hour TED talk.

And it really was. Wow. Did he do a lot of talking? He did. All right, let's get into it. Let's get into it. Yeah, go into all. Richard Dawkins.

Go. No, no, I was just saying I will, I, I will say regarding's get into it. Yeah, go into it. Richard Dawkins. Go. No, no, I was just saying I will say regarding the Edward Stoden. I do miss. I love Joe's curiosity, so I kind of missed his inquisitive miss when it comes to Snowden, but I feel like Stone just like came with just such a bulldozer of information. There was really nothing to ask. So, yeah, but we'll get into that Yeah, no, I'm with you. I'm totally with you on that all right richy doalkins

Is this you're familiar with doalkins from before this podcast correct? With with Richard Dawkins Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love Richard Dawkins? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love Richard Dawkins I've mainly seen him on like Bill Mar and stuff like that and some news shows, but yeah Mmm Okay, well he's been, you know, when I lived in England he would often pop up in conversations and discussions on religion. And a lot of my life, I mean, I remember hearing about him and got into reading his books. So, I mean, I could just hear his voice for like one second

and I know who he is. Like, he's well known enough in England and he's pretty well known here. I think so. First time on Rogan, which was cool. I know they've been trying to set this up for ages. I don't know why it takes so long for some people. It really is like, I'm sure Richard Dawkins had no idea who Joe Rogan was. I would say that for sure. He doesn't seem like he was. He's just like, who is this guy? I think he enjoyed the conversation, though. You know, it's Joe is surprising for people I think

especially when you're teaching at Oxford all day and then you see someone that you know is probably wearing like a clinch M&A shirt sitting across from you with like four sleeves and but then starts to kind of I mean Joe had a lot of knowledge and then starts to kind of, I mean, Joe had a lot of knowledge about different religions and Mormonism and Scientology and it was cool to hear them getting into it. So his new book is called Outgrowing God. You could just hear that title and you'd know that was a Dawkins book for sure. Oh, absolutely. I think I've read two of his books at the God Delusion and then trying to think of the other one.

I don't want to say they get a bit say-me, but how many ways can you say that God doesn't exist? Yeah, I mean, it's at least from me. It's kind of where it goes. It's like, when I'm thinking of how many books I want to read, I don't know where. I'm like one at least for me was enough. I'd like to hear some feedback on this new one, see if people like it, but you know, it's a little bit like Neil the Grass Tyson's books. Right, you know, they are fascinating, but how many of them do you need to read before you're like, all right, I still don't really understand any of this and some of that was pretty interesting Yeah Yeah, so they get into it. Why is their religion right and and they both kind of hit the same point like the afterlife

It is that, right? It's like why even create one or follow it or think about it. We're just so obsessed with death. Yeah, we're obsessed with the end. But I think human beings crave structure too, and I think religious and gives that. I mean, going back to your comments earlier about how Dawkins probably had an idea who Joe Rogan was, and he was a bit surprised. But Joe has an amazing intellectual curiosity. He likes to understand things, he likes to know things. And I think the human condition is always a search for answers.

It's an answer, always a search for the answer to the mystery, the who done it of everything. Now some people become satisfied with their answers and to discount those is blasphemy. But I think that's the human condition, searching for answers. And I think religion fills that. Religion is a cornerstone of human civilization. You go back to GobekliTepi in what is it? Istanbul. They think it's the first church.

I mean, we're taking, we're taking, dating back to 12,000, 14,000 BC, something like that. So religion is a cornerstone of the human experience. But I really think it's a quest for answers of why we're here and what comes next, what is afterwards. And then they've cultivated that. And there's a fear of the unknown, fear of the afterlife. And a lot of it's hedging your bets and being on your best behavior because if you're not, then you could get fucked in the afterlife.

Well, it's better not to be bad, right? Sure. Sure. And when you stand there too, like any priestly person and say, listen, I know all the answers because of this set of rules that I was given from a God. So we don't need to question anything. Definitely don't question me.

And I know where you go after this, which you can never prove. Right. I mean, really all religion is saying that we can tell you the answer to something that the greatest scientist of 2019 can't even get even close to answering. Now, obviously the other group is just guessing. scientists of 2019 can't even get even close to answering now Obviously the other group is just guessing. They're just making it up But they're they're telling you it in a way that you're you know It just sounds better than a scientist going. Oh, yeah, we can't prove what happens there

We just don't know man. So what annoys me though You say it's that search for answers, but isn't the search really for truthful answers? Because what is the point of bullshit answers? Oh, it's absolutely the search for truthful answers. I felt like that was kind of inherent in answer, but yeah, it's a search for truthful answers. Now, how far people go for that truth is left open to interpretation. Some people, some people search as far as they want to. If they find a satisfactory answer, that's good enough for them. Some people are never satisfied.

I kind of feel like I'm one of those that's never satisfied. How about you? Well, I mean, it just has to be truthful. I mean, there has to be evidence. Right. Someone can't just say this is, I mean, it just seems like almost everything with religion, very quickly you realize these aren't truthful answers. Like, how could they possibly know this? How they possibly know this? How could anyone know this? True. And then you're like, well, this person told this person. And you're like, yeah, but in my experience,

and I'm only like, let's say that you're a young kid learning about religion, you're like 13, you're like, well, in my experience, when so and so tell so and so, and they hear from so and so, it's an I knew the original event. It's already completely changed. Right.

Yeah, so answers is, yeah, I agree. I mean, I think that you're right. It's more, it's more the search for answers almost than an answer for the afterlife, which is another answer. But the truth for part of it is very small. It just does not seem that important to people. And I know religious people, I've lived with them when I have come over to the United States for the first time. And they like

sponsored me to go to school. And they were really like kind of, you know, old school Baptist type religious people. Yeah. That you know, and school Baptist type religion. Right. People. Yeah. You know, and it sounds kind of bullshit to be like, Oh, I have to be really patient with them. I don't mean it like that. I just didn't understand that.

Sure. I just had never heard anything like that. And I tried to be respectful, but it learning the truth or any kind of logic was way less important to them, defending some sort of nonsense. And I did notice they got way more aggressive about defending their position than I ever tried to be on mine. Right.

I was just like, all right, cool. Fine, okay, evolution doesn't exist. What do you think happened then? Or what else could be happening? There was just no question. There was nothing about truth. It was all just about, I've been told this, this is the answer.

It's dogma. And that was terrifying. Yeah. That kind of shit's a bit terrifying. I grew up in the Bible belt. That was my life. That was, it was kind of nuts the first time that I ever encountered like a religious group

that didn't believe in evolution, that not only just didn't like discounted it, which would be one thing, but you know, I'm just not, like they were venomous about it. They were like, we don't come from monkeys and just shouting, I was like, holy shit. Like this is, it was like, no we don't, because we are monkeys and just shouting. I was like, holy shit. Like this is, no we don't because we are monkeys, you silly.

I mean, of course we're monkeys. Get Lord. But it was crazy. It was all because I was dating this girl. It was like supremely religious. And you know, for some reason, I thought going to church with her would be some avenue in, if you get my drift,

but it was just yeah it was nuts and then I still went back that was what he was even crazier but yeah I didn't even try to argue at all I mean it wasn't it there was no point there was no point yeah yeah well I was in Albuquerque, New Mexico. And same thing, I went to church, I went to Bible study, it was to meet chicks though for sure. It was red nexonon. It was red nexon Albuquerque. No, it was loads of them. That's what they are.

I mean, this was east of the mountain too, this was in like a little town called Marriotti. I mean, it was, yeah, it was plenty of that. Gotcha. And but what was crazy about it too though, as I felt, there's a lot of nice people. A lot of, they were very nice. Oh hell yeah. Like I noticed that in a sense of niceness,

like they were nicer than my family back in England. They were nicer than my neighbors, like back in England. Sure. People would come over when we moved into an area. They bring like fruits and a little basket and say, welcome to the neighborhood. And, you know, I'd go over to my friends' houses and they would just, they were nice.

Like, they're so, to say, oh, all this came from religion. I don't know. No, maybe. Yes, but it was such a big part of their lives, and they all went to church. That they kind of was like this thinking about like being nice and neighborly. And, and, you know, I could definitely see positive aspects of it, at least when it came to those things. Sure. The only problem was you couldn't question anything. And because I love asking questions and always have that was That was always going to be a major issue. What I liked Dawkins talking about as he says he's never

Spoken to anybody that had a really persuasive argument or really any Persuasive argument for the existence of God. That was one thing that he said and then he followed it up with, but he's met incredibly smart people. And he knows they are, like so smart. I think he was talking about the Archbishop of Canterbury, maybe, who can finish your sentence before he gets in the end, because he knows what you're going to say. But then as soon as he goes back to very basic kind of, you know, silly, story, timey aspects of his religion, Richard expected him to just be like, oh, those are just metaphors for things.

It doesn't really mean that, but he did, he believed it. Right. And that's where it breaks down for Richard. He's like, okay, all right, what are we doing here? You know, I know, you know, if your belief system is based on empirical evidence, nobody's going to have a good, a good argument for God. That's just at the end of the day. And that's how Richard Dawkins is. At the end of the day, there is no empirical evidence. I mean, that's the whole crux of faith, right? It's like they have faith. They don't need empirical evidence. That's kind of how it is.

But if you have somebody who's steadfast as like I must have the evidence, you must scientific method to prove you know, said belief is never going to work. It's never going to work. It doesn't matter how intelligent they are because they're just, you can't, you can't because at the end of the day, it is faith based. Do you think that this whole, the point of it is you've got to have faith blah blah blah is just their thing because they can't prove any part of it. Yes. In fact, if you look at religion, they're always trying to prove it, but it's so unprovable that they just make up this faith bit of it to cover all bases. And then they turn it into,

instead of the weakest part of their argument, they're like, it's actually the strongest. If you don't have the faith and you don't believe and it's the faith is the leap, and that's how you get. Yet, if it's all about that, why do you have to set up these massive churches to make you look like incredibly powerful,

which is all the biggest buildings in old Europe before they had skyscrapers. I mean, the church was like, wow, this is incredible, this must be, you have all the money. Right, and that's just the huge money to get all the power. Right, and then you have these stories and artifacts and different churches that are supposed to hold

the different remains of all these very religious events and then you tell these stories about all these miracles. It's like, hold on a second. Do we have to have faith or are you trying really hard to prove it? This is like what UFO people do. Exactly. You know? They don't tell you to have faith. They're trying to prove it. They just don't have any do. Exactly. You know? Yep. They don't tell you to have faith.

They're trying to prove it. They just don't have any proof. Exactly. And they're doing their best. So, so this is like, this is it. I'm like, I don't think you really want us or require us to have faith. You just can't prove it.

So, this is your out. Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, I think it depends on who you talk to. I think of the first time it was ever uttered, it was made up. I think some people really truly believe it, but I think that's been instilled in them by someone else that, and it was still instilled in them, and that person before them, the person before them, person before them. I truly do believe that these people believe it, and I'm of the position that if it brings

them peace, then no pun intended to go with God. But I do think that, I mean, it was made up eventually. It had to have been made up at a certain point, because that's all you have without empirical evidence. You simply have, you can call it faith, you can call it hope, you can call whatever you want, it's simply a word. But yeah, I do think most of these people actually do believe it. I don't think they're just making it up off the top of their head as an excuse. I think they truly do believe that faith is the cornerstone and the belief in this

without empirical evidence is a cornerstone of their practice. I don't see the same way they do, but I think most of them are earnest about it. That's for sure. Well, yeah, but they didn't make the release. No, they didn't make the release. I'm talking about the people. Oh, the are earnest about it. That's for sure. Well, yeah, but they didn't make the release. No, they didn't make the release. I'm talking about the people that created it. Oh, the people that made it? Yeah, because you see it.

Oh, I think it was very, in the newer release. It was very much a way to, I think, control the masses. I mean, it's, I mean, if you were a history buff, you know, I mean, research the history of simply Christianity. It's very well documented about how these things were put together. I mean, Council of Nicaea, I think it was

around 300 AD where they basically a group got together, the holy Catholic church or what the beginnings of it, and basically decided what was going to be in and what was going to be out. Then we had to discover the Dead Sea Scrolls that had chapters of the Bible that were not included, that were pretty eye-opening, a gospel of Mary, a gospel of Thomas. A lot of them were part of the Nostek scriptures, which was a different sect of Christianity, that was actually a little more more closely resembled Eastern philosophy. More like Buddhism, Hinduism, things like that. There was a more of a spiritual aspect to it than you found in early Christianity. And that was stamped out because there

was because one of the main reasons that I've studied this a lot is because there was no real hierarchy to the Gnostic Church that didn't want a hierarchy. But so one of the reasons that they fizzled out is because there was no hierarchy. There was nothing to maintain structure whereas you had with the council of Nicaea when what eventually became the holy Roman Catholic Church

There was very much a structure. I mean, there was a huge debate on whether or not they were gonna consider Jesus to be human or God they didn't know I mean these are documented I mean, I'm sure there's other Accounts that you know other people that might Different that account, but these are some extraordinary things. I would love I Would really love for them to do a like a phenomenal job Put out all I almost wish even back then they had made one book of all the works that they kept in and One book that they didn't I know which maybe who knows the Catholic church has now

But it's like the time Jesus kicked a donkey or just a bunch of fucking stupid shit. And they're just like, wait, what? And they're like, I'm telling you, dude, you didn't eat a bad day. Well, dude, I mean, and it's just left in there. The Da Vinci code, I mean, Da Vinci code was an incredibly controversial book. It struck a chord with me because I had read the Gospels, which a lot of them were part of the Dead Sea Scrolls. But I mean, and there was also this phenomenal documentary done on Christmas, December 25, 1999, it was called the Historical Jesus on A&E, it's an A&E biography.

I don't know if you remember that show or even watched that show. It was an awesome show, it was called, but it was the historical Jesus on Aenean. It's an Aenean biography. I don't know if you remember that show or even watch that show. It was an awesome show, it was called, but it was the historical Jesus. Two hours and I watched the whole damn thing and a lot of it was based on the Gnostic texts from the Dead Sea Scrolls. And one of the big things, gospel of Mary and the way they talked about Mary Magdalene,

not his mother Mary, but Mary Magdalene, who many people considered to be the prostitute that Jesus like took under his wing and forgave. Well, these Gnostic texts strongly insinuated that Mary was actually his wife. And if you looked at historical context for what a Jewish man at that time in history would have gone through. They would have learned to trade from their father. They would have taken a wife. I can't, there's like five things. It's been 20 years, so I can't really remember

the other three, but one of them was take a wife, and it was strongly insinuated that Mary Magdalene was Jesus' wife. Now, obviously, we'll never go into really no, but that was a big thing. So when it showed up in the Da Vinci code, there was a lot of controversy, but for me, I was like, oh, I've heard this. I've heard this many times. It was quite fascinating. But it flew in the face of...

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, it flows in the face of Jesus' virginity, his divinity, things like that. So it can't be included. It can't be. is divinity, things like that. So it can't be included, can't be. Well, not to get like two off track. Sure. We're two into the woods about this, but I'm interested since you might know,

what did they think of men that didn't get married? Well, I'm sorry, repeat that. Paris, sorry. What did they, sorry, Paris, Paris, what did they think of men back then that didn't give men? That I don't know the, like how was that singing? I don't know the answer to you. I just know that was a Jewish tradition.

I mean, one that carries on to this day, how many Jewish mothers want their sons to get married. Become a doctor and get married, kind of think. But it was a way to passage for Jewish men at that time. I mean, it was very traditional. You learn a trade, Jesus learned a carbon tree and you have a family. You do these things. Well, it's interesting that you took the point of going back even to Christianity way back then to show why it was brought around and how it was brought around and for what

reason. In a way, you almost don't even need to, and they hit on this. It's like you can go to Mormonism. Absolutely. Joseph Smith, not that long ago. We've got so much of that history. You can really just bring it straight to fucking Scientology. Absolutely. I mean, it just came around like the guy was like, hey, the best way to make money, create

a religion. And then just followed all of those types of steps and people didn't give a shit. It's almost like they just want to be a part of this thing. And as soon as they built what looked like a big church, and they had medals, and they had an altar, and they talked about this divine blah, blah, blah, and they kind of, you know, kiss everyone's ass as you work through the levels. It's like, oh, this is, this is how easy it is to get

people into something. Even when, if you just take five minutes and sit down, you can just real quick be like, oh, this is bullshit. I don't, I, do you think any Scientologist smoke weed? Oh, I think so. I think I think there's got to be some out there. I mean, I'm really... Yeah, I mean, I'm... How the fuck could you do it and just sit there with this nonsense? Unless you're just laughing at it, unless you just think it's that funny. I don't think a majority of them really believe what's being sold. Some of them do. I don't think a lot of them do. I don't think all. I don't think a lot of them do. I think the ones that get

into deep don't want you can't get out because they're terrified. I think the rest of them, I mean, because there's levels to even find out the secrets and things like that, although in the last 20 years it's been harder and harder to keep those secrets because it's just the information age. But the intro website. I think Google. I mean, I think a lot of it, I mean shit, a lot of them are actors and artists and stuff like that. It's kind of a way to get a head type thing.

I'm not saying they're all like that, but I think there's a lot of people that I don't think they're buying everything. It's being sold to them. A lot of them, they might be buying some of it, but I don't think, I don't think all're buying everything. It's being sold to them a lot. They might be buying some of it, but I don't think I don't think all of them believe it. At least that's how I feel about it. I feel like Well, that's reasonable. That's probably like every religion anyway. I think so. I mean, I think they're probably It's probably a little more with them because they're also, I mean, they're pretty specific

to certain metropolitan areas. You're not going to, there's not a lot of Scientology outreach in the Midwest, you're in the United States, you know what I mean? Yeah, I'm probably not. Yeah, probably not. You know, anyway, this, this was a good one. This, I mean, if you are religious, or you have questions about it,

or maybe you're young and you struggle to make sense of it all, this is definitely one side of the argument that's worth listening to. There's obviously another, the pro-religious argument, but you're probably already hearing that or have done your whole life. So, I would say check this guy out. He's a fascinating

example of a very intelligent man that spend a very long time thinking about this and, you know, comes at it from the angle, I believe he's a biologist. So, I think so. I think so. I think so. Yeah. Kind of a different angle. Yeah, he's not a philosopher, like religious studies guy, but he just spends his time understanding this stuff and makes some great points about great points about evolution too and how it works. And yeah, this was a 7 out of 10 for me. I liked this one quite a lot. I wish it was a bit longer. I have to say, you know, maybe that just means that I'm addicted to listening to Rogan's podcast, but once they get going and you're like, you know, an hour and a half in or two hours in even like yeah It's a long fucking time. But once you get that far, it's like well, let's get going

Let's just continue this and finish it and with that let's move on To Edward Snowden holy shit speaking of long podcasts Yeah, damn yeah, he I, it really wasn't any longer than his regular ones. No, you're right. It's seen that way because Edward just was just hammering. It was just him talking through. Pretty much. I mean, it almost needed to be. Like he had a lot to say, I don't know if he's ever had this kind of forum, I guess, before. In that sense, I mean, this long with that kind of audience, can you think of he's, you know, it's not like I've followed in that closely. Perhaps not unfiltered in length. I don't think he's ever had just pardon me, three hours to simply just talk and not stop. He's definitely gotten a forum. He's

a been a very popular person to interview for all sorts of new, all sorts of media, whether it's the news or entertainment. Well, yeah, but those, those are always bullshit. That's the point. Of course. Yeah, no, no, no, that type of interview. I love doing the beginning. I love doing the beginning. He was like, well, I don't want to get into weeds

or get off topic or get, you know, whatever. And rug and was like, nope, there's no, there's no template. There's no schedule. Just go, just talk. Just, I wanna hear it. Yeah, he just, he just likes to join and just sits back and goes, take it away. Yeah, yeah.

Just get all right. I appreciate that. I like, you know, he kind of set it up. He's like, look, I don't get paid by Russia. Yeah. He didn't get into a ton about how he lives out there, but he did. And he kind of spread it throughout. And that was actually some of the only questions that Joe asked. And I like that. Because Joe was like, personally, how are you feeling? Like, how are you doing?

And I like that. Because obviously, he has a wealth of information. I mean, he almost has like the do aliens exist information. And after he spoke, I kind of feel like he has maybe the most of that sort of information anyway, just because he had access to the system. But you know, he makes money. He makes a point of that. He actually spoke at my girlfriend's college, I guess. So this is not unusual for him to like have these video conferences. So he must get paid for that. I don't know if Joe paid him. I don't think Joe pays his guess, but he might have. He might have paid him because this is pretty fascinating. I got the feeling that maybe he had been compensated somehow because I felt like he made a point of saying this is pretty fast. I got the feeling that maybe he had been compensated somehow.

Cause it felt like he made a point of saying this is one of the few ways you can get compensated or something like that. That's it. And you know, Joe usually flies people out anyway, probably puts him in a hotel. So it's not a big deal. If Joe makes an exception, this is a truly fascinating one. So so that's that. He just came out with a book. I don't know how the

fuck he's going to sell that book in the US, but it might, it might, he can sell it. He just, he can sell it. He just won't get money from it. Is that right? Because the publisher can, because, I mean, first amendment for Adam the press, they can't stop them from publishing it, but they can stop him, the publisher from paying him. I mean, he even, he mentioned that in the beginning that he can't get, that he won't get money for this book that they'll freeze it. I mean, I imagine, huh, most of his assets are going to be frozen or all of his assets are frozen and any, any attempt to wire money to him are going to be heavily tracked. You know they're looking at that public.

I got you. You know they're, But in other countries he can get paid right so maybe it's just a way to like you know if it hits like New York best sellers list. In a sense that's like payment itself because other countries will want to buy it. Yep. Yep. Okay. Well you know in aspect, then maybe Joe didn't pay him because I'm pretty sure with things like this, it's like that's advertising enough. Right. So, yeah, who knows? Who knows?

But yeah, hereby here by lawsuit, that's gonna be rough. He said he could move freely, he kind of said that towards the end. He can just walk around, goes to coffee shops. Sure. Imagine going to Russia and bumping in the fucking snow. Crazy. Absolutely. Dude, I would talk to Zero often. I'm not even that into this kind of stuff. Yeah, but you have, I mean, I'm curious about those things. So you would, you'd want, you just listen. There would be, man, it would be too interesting, wouldn't it?

Oh, it would be way too interesting. I mean, these were fast-moving three hours of what he had to say. Because I knew about Stone and I knew what he did, but I'd never really gotten into the weeds about it. It was just one of those things that a lot of people had opinions on it and I was like, I don't know. I don't know what I feel one way or the other about it. Because it just, it was, it peaked my interest enough to have a general curiosity, but I never saw it out. But this was the most in depth I've heard about

what he went through, what he did. And it was pretty fascinating. Yeah. What we're gonna try and do for this podcast podcast too is that a lot was covered, right? And if you're into interest, obviously, we're just reviewing it. We're not going to go into every addict part of it. But there were there was talk of like the stellar wind, the different interpretations of the laws. And so in the description for this, in the link the bio, I'm going to put as many links as I can find the different aspects of that. So

if you want to learn more about each thing, I mean, I'm kind of curious, it's just kind of how I work and I've got time. So I just kind of do those things. I just look at stuff and see if it's interesting. But I'll put it all on there. I think it's helpful addition. I don't know whether you're listening to this before or after you listen to the Snowden podcast, if it happens to be before, then you'll have a bunch of links that you can click through our bio as you listen to him. And it just gives a little bit more information if you want to delve into stuff. Yeah, so does that. So it turns out Dick Cheney is the devil. Did you notice that one?

Oh, yeah, that was one thing I knew already. But yeah, it's quite clear how he felt about that. But yeah, it's quite it's it's it's quite clear how he felt about that Yeah, not a big fan of that dude, but he fucked all of the laws Yeah, he just went nope. That's terrifying that can be done. It's absolutely terrifying, isn't it? With no yeah, it almost makes you think when they say oh, we want a seasoned politician And we want someone that knows how to navigate the different organizations and how to get people to work together. I mean, snow didn't almost employ no. When you have someone like that, they can manipulate everyone all at once. Oh, absolutely. I mean, even the fact that the program went down to simply two people was bush and some other guy in the office talking

about it. Yeah, David Adams in the lawyer. Well said, it is. And what resonated with me regarding that is that a lesson to be learned for all of us is that how we responded to fear. We were really afraid after 9-11. And we kind of put all our power into a small select group and they abused the shit out of it. That's a

little terrifying and I don't think humans ever learned that lesson. I'd like to say we would but I don't think we're ever gonna learn that lesson. We get scared we look somebody disalbums. Let's just how we do it. No good decisions have made from a place of fear That's something that Snowden said. Yeah, excuse me and it's very true You know, it's even like a basic adage that we often talk about in Jiu Jitsu We don't say it in the same way, but like if you're panicking if you're scared if you're really exerting yourself too much You're not gonna think of the best way to get out of move

really exerting yourself too much. You're not going to think of the best way to get out of a move. Never. You need it's better to just stop for a second and calm down. Then it is to start fighting for your life in the sense of, it's just not effective. You're going to panic. You're going to panic. And then they create something called stellar wind. They don't think of that name, stellar wind. What a fucking bunch of assholes like oh, yeah, we can just fly in now no warrants You know strip all their rights Just is it's like the kings of England. Yeah, that's what America is not about Yep, yeah, exactly. I mean that I'm reminded of this every fourth of July I'm reminded of this thank you all my American friends and when it texts me and be like

Fuck you and the king and I'm like what we don't even have a And also I've lived here for 25 years. So yes, I'm sorry. It's um, yeah, it's antithetical to the foundation of the country as it were The Fourth Amendment. I mean they hammered that home pretty hard. That illegal search and seizure, you can't just go into somebody's house, you can't surveil them without a warrant, without probable cause. And yeah, it was trampled on, and it was done in secret. And what really resonated with me is how they kept doing it and they kept using the term for national security and he was like, when you think it's, you know, it's like for us,

but it's really not. It's state security and I'd never heard it put that way. That was, that was bone-chilling. How'd you feel about that? Yeah. No, there was a bunch of those moments. And I completely agree that one, excuse me, yeah, slamming it some morning. It's, it's, it's exactly that. It's the same as Stella Wind. It's like, you hear these names, the Patriot Act. You know, it's just like the, the Protect America Act. It's not. It's to protect the politician act. 100% Patriot act has nothing to do with Patriots at all. It's the once again protect government officials while they take away your rights.

It's just, they even use names that sound really good to just fuck you. And it's horrific. And he made a good point. It's like the better the name. Yup. The more it sounds like make America safe, the worse it is. It's going to be.

You know what? You know what? I thought he really did well and an appointee drove home and it was a point that I'd never really thought of is that it was simply a bunch of guys trying to keep their jobs and move up the ladder. And he was like, that's what the conspiracy is. And it put it in such a perspective that I guess seems simple, but I guess it's not, at least not to me, this idea that conspiracy is aren't a bunch of dudes in a conference room smoking and dim lighting and coming up with ways to manipulate the world. It's just a bunch of pencil-pushing bureaucrats who want to keep their jobs.

And so they're like, well, we do it this way and we all benefit. Or the truth comes out and we get fucked and we lose our jobs and we lose everything else. That's kind of, that's almost a little scarier to me in a way because it's like I can totally see that because I mean we've all worked bullshit jobs, we've all worked those jobs where we fucking hated our bosses and you're like, this guy's such a dickhead or an ass kisser or whatever.

And it's like, they're just the same, it's just the same kind of douchebag. Except now these douchebags have a shit ton of power, but they don't want to lose their job. They'll throw people under the bus, and they'll definitely do what it takes to move up. And that's kind of was part of it. This is the idea that I just want to keep my job

and maybe move up and be the hero a little bit, and this is the way I got to do it. And you had, so while you had all this power concentrated in these small groups of guys that just didn't want to lose their jobs. And here we have a massive existential threat to quote unquote democracy. I don't know, that unnerved me. Yeah. What do you think?

Well, this, this wasn't as like fascinating and as exciting to hear in this spectacular way as say Bob Lazar, right? Because he's talking about aliens and this is what they have in these ships and blah blah. But let's not forget Snowden had access to the ultimate Google. Yep.

Before anyone did. And you can tell by the way that he speaks, analyzes things, throws things back out. Like we just pointed it out. He made us realize, oh, these are the ways that these things are working. Now imagine someone that thinks that analytically. And now they have this system which they know how to run, and he's looking at everything in it.

And all of a sudden, he's not finding real conspiracies in the sense of like, you know, trying to get blood out of babies to inject into billionaires. Or like any of the weird things or aliens or whatever, he just saw simple basic stupidity and greed and lack of foresight and

low moral values Yeah, just and just exactly that these fuckers want to go to the Hamptons on the weekend and play golf with their buddies They don't want to get into the weeds and they definitely don't want to go to jail. Yep That's that's what I got. 100% No surprise, right? No surprise. No surprise.

I mean, it wasn't. It was surprising to me that it was so simple as to just that there were every other asshole you've ever met, but there was no, there was no sinister plot. It was just a bunch of cunts keeping their jobs. I keep emphasizing that. But what do you think is the solution? How do they, is it like tons of oversight? Yes.

What, yeah. Well, I think, well, I think it's tons of oversight and I think God help us. It's somebody in power that finds it unacceptable, which is a very tall order because once someone's in power, it's very difficult for them to relinquish any of that power. I mean, check this out. You can look at Obama. Everybody thought Obama was going to be the big savior of this stuff. Nothing got better under Obama in terms of surveillance.

This was all during Obama's term. That didn't get better. And why? And a lot of people thought it would, but why didn't it? Because they're not going to give up power. And there's two reasons. One, because they like having the power but two, they probably feel as if they're one of the few people that can make that difference and to give that power

up gives up a tool that they feel is crucial in doing what they want to do. I'm sure in some instances there are altruistic intentions, but I mean, what's the old adage? Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Nothing got better. Nothing got better. Yeah. I mean, if I said to you, like, I had the ability to give you almost infinite power and

you're like, listen, no one should have that. And I'm like, okay, I'll give it to you for a day, but you've got to give you almost infinite power and you're like, listen, no one should have that. And I'm like, okay, I'll give it to you for a day, but you've got to give it back. Never gonna happen. Yeah, it's Frodo handing, gand up the ring and Lord of the Ring, so you take it. He's like, nope, don't tempt me.

Yeah, I will fuck shit up with that because I will reign terror with that because I like it too much. Oh, it gives me the chance. That's a great, I mean, I think amongst the candidates running for president that I've heard, there's only been one candidate that his, and this was in the last cycle, I believe and I'm could be wrong, so don't quote me. But I believe they asked if Bernie would pardon Edward Stoden. I think he said yes. I might be wrong. Feel free to

correct me and tell me I'm an idiot if I am guys. But I'm pretty sure Bernie was the only one that said yes. Everyone else. They told the line. I was like no no no no no bad bad bad. What did it was bad bad bad. And I think so if you're looking at your field of candidates, the only one I feel like I would have any confidence in and perhaps changing that and changing how things are might be Bernie. I'm not saying, that's not an endorsement for him,

yay or nay, I'm just simply saying, you're asking how did we change that? And my answer is I think you need somebody with power. They will make that choice. And I feel like, first off, Bernie might be the only one. Yeah, first off, endorse whoever you want. Nobody gives a shit about who we endorse. No, it's true.

Tulsi Gabbard, or she did, she did say that she got no momentum at all in this. So it didn't really make a difference. But this brings up an interesting point, right? So, you know, it's not just about forgiving him, but wouldn't it be amazing if you created a government organization and they are called the whistleblows. And all they do is just step in to different organizations with massive access. And they then, you know, look at what they're doing and they go to the courts, and they're like, okay, this is what we found. Now, yeah, they'd be seen as like snitches,

probably everyone would hate them. They're like the most ultimate, you know, internal affairs. They've been told, but if they had pretty strict guidelines about, in a sense, but they're not just looking for like internal affairs, because internal affairs are not like properly whistle blowing things They're looking for like real for it. They're looking for this shit. The whistle blows used to get Prosecuted for and after leave the country for like exclusively so they're not wasting their time on the small Shit, they're looking at the big picture and they're saying hey This is fucked or this is fucked. You know what I mean? on a much larger scale

That would be pretty fascinating. Yeah And to say that it wouldn't allow things to run. It's like yeah, we're because they still got to go to court They still got to you know get that point to discuss exactly and and and and maybe they don't have to come straight to the public with everything Immediately they just go to the courts and then they kind of they were simply the ones that decided what was classified and declassified Like how snowed you said even going to lunch was classified because everything in the NSA is simply classified as a matter of course What if they were the ones that said no these unless classified as a matter of course. What if they were the ones that said,

no, unless it's a matter of defense security or homeland security or domestic security, notice I'm not using the word national. No, it doesn't get classified anymore, period. Like if it's sensitive information, if it puts people in arms way, that's classified. Otherwise, nope. You don't get to... Because it is amazing how you're saying, you know, it was that was private information being hid from the public and the public should be the ones that have the private information and the public figure and then you have the actual people that's serving in Congress,

that should be all open, that should be open to the people, but the people should have privacy and it was completely opposite way around. I thought that was pretty fascinating. Yeah, that was a very odd way of looking at it. Well, no, it was a smart way of looking at it, but it was odd for my brain. Exactly. So I put that together, I'm like, oh no, it was a smart way of looking at it, but it was odd for my brain. Exactly.

So I put that together. I'm like, oh shit, that's a good point. But again, it's that fucking thing. They've got power. They've got power. And it's like, let's never forget. Like whoever has the most power, we only have power because there's so many others. Yeah. And anytime they try to take that away, which they're always doing, it is something to think about. It's one of those kind of annoying arguments for me when it comes to the second amendment. You know, I'm an English person. Yeah. Where I was born. I... we don't have guns there,

and we don't have really any gun violence. Right. So I don't like gun violence. So when I hear that, I'm like, this is bad. But then, I also went to high school in New Mexico. And I heard very thoughtful people that I respected very well say, listen, this is why it's important in America for us to keep these things. And I don't know. It's so muddy in a lot of ways that I don't know. It's so muddy in a lot of ways that I don't want, I haven't made my mind up on it. I don't want to. I like the fact that there are different sides to this argument.

And it's one of the best things about America is there are different sides and you're allowed to have it. Nobody's all forced to think one way. And it was a lot more like that in England. There was a lot more singular thinking. And then, you know, the other types of ways of thinking were not, there was no dialogue for it. There's a lot more than the US and that's cool. And not saying you need guns to be empowered, but you tell me it doesn't scare the shit out of the government

that like everyone in Texas can shoot you. Scores the shit out of me, right? I mean for whatever that means, whatever that means, it's just, it's something. And when you hear these sorts of podcasts, you like, her, I wonder. Like, I wonder what value that is, you know, it doesn't have to be me on in the gun, but maybe I'm okay with a few people having some. True. What do you think of all the phone stuff, the phone tapping, the phone, you know, the phone tapping shit was going back to like 70s where they didn't even need a warrant for it.

And now like 18T keeps all of your phone cycles and has for a very long time. Considered it seven, yeah. That's um, I don't love it. It's crazy. I don't love it. It's not, yeah. Well, and the fact that the um, that the continuous surveillance was based, uh, uh, uh, the cooperation was based on a lobbying past that they couldn't be sued. That's fucked up to me. Yeah, that's so fucked.

That's like, it's like, it's so fucked. I mean, it doesn't even seem that useful. It's just like they just collect all this data. And, you know, and it wasn't long after all this stuff and the NSA shit came out that like all of a sudden now, Google, Facebook, all the banks, all the major companies, a massive data collectors. I mean, maybe they always were.

Like you did start to notice, even with the banks, they would break up like how are you're spending? Yeah. Look at these free pie charts we make for you, so you can monitor your income and you're like, wait, are you doing this to help me? Or are you doing this so that you know every way that everyone is spending money?

Yeah. me or you're doing this so that you know every way that everyone has spent money. It's like suddenly the data within your account is more valuable than the money that you're putting in it. It's like who cares who cares if we have $200 of your money. I'd rather know how you spend all your money or year. This this like information grabbing thing is, is a little scary and I, I don't think we're getting away from it. At the end of the day, I'm from, not just power. And if they have all that information, it does, just because I can't foresee what they might do with it, doesn't mean there's something that they can't do with it. Or that somebody's, something that, somebody else can't do with it, even if they can use it to predict spending habits

in a way to manipulate you into buying different things. Even that's like, it's a lot of power to be able to manipulate people into, or influence people into certain spending habits. It's a little fucking freaky. I don't like it. Well, it's not just what you're buying, too. I mean, a big part of it is tracking where you are. Absolutely. He talked about location tracking on phone. So it's like,

it's like before you leave your house, there could be an app on your phone that says, hey, you're at your door, right? Right. And it says, there's a 74% chance that at this time of the day on this day, you are going to Starbucks and you are going to buy X, Y, and Z, then you're going to go over and get a barito across the road, then then you're going to meet with someone. So now, maybe you're not doing those things. Maybe you're like, oh, no, I was just heading to the post office, but it could, it's saying, look, that's 75% chance. The other thing is unusual that you would do it. You're more likely to do the other thing.

And on those days when you're like actually doing it, I mean, it could be like a funny app to have. It's just like, oh, look at the app telling me what I'm going to be doing. But it's exactly what they're trying to figure out. They want to know everyone's. Absolutely. And I say they like it's a conspiracy. I just mean companies, you're's. Absolutely. And I say they, like, it's a conspiracy. I just mean companies, you're bank, Google, it's just, it's used. Someone that's not you.

Is there going to be a boiling point? Is there going to be a part where we're like, where people come together and say, enough enough? We love all this technology. We want to use it. You need to figure out this shit so that you just don't completely strip away all our They'll have to be a tipping point because right now no one really feels affected by it Like it's kind of creepy that you look at something online and then an advertisement shows up for it

On a completely different app on your phone five minutes later People are a little wicked out about it, but you haven't there hasn't been that tipping point that Where people have felt the effects of it and I think until then it's just not going to I mean It's kind of like when you're a teenager and you get your first car You don't get regular oil changes. You kind of wait for the engine to kind of fuck up or the radiator to go and then you're like Oh, I probably should have been doing oil changes But it just it's because until it causes you pain on a real visceral level, I don't think there's I don't think there's going to be a come to Jesus moment. Now, if you have, that's what I feel. It's a, it, what about, right?

What about a new company like Amazon? Because almost no one can overthrow Amazon, right? But check this out. This company comes in and it's kind of set up like those meal companies that send meals to your house. It's like before you know it, you're getting six meals every week. You forget to turn it off. It's a subscription and now you've got more meals than you can even fit in your freezer and you're sick of them. But check this. So it's similar to that, but all this shit is even half the price of Amazon. But you don't order it. It's all based on your hands. Those. Yeah, it's all based on those habits. And instead of those things just popping up on on a website you're on, it actually gets sent to your house.

Now, you can refuse anything that comes or you can ship anything back. And maybe you don't even have to ship it back at the mail store. You can just leave it outside your door with a different stick around. But it still happens that way. And the payoff for you is, oh, it's half as much, that you would spend if you actually need to buy it. So it's kind of like you're hoping that they will send you the things that you need and then you can send the other things back. And then all of a sudden you want them to have more

of your information to get the right things sent to you for very cheap, but that's it, you're fucked. And it just goes like that. that's the kind of tipping point I would see. Now that seems crazy as an idea, but I was thinking the other day as I was ordering these meals because obviously I came to Paris. I didn't want any more of them. It was like a pain in the ass to stop it. Interesting. I was like, I'm not even fucking eating these things.

Yeah. Well, that's what they hope. They hope you don't want to stop it so they keep getting your business. I think as it is right now, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, that's what they hope they hope you don't want to stop it so that you they keep getting your business I'm I think as it is right now. It's it's it's an accepted inconvenience for What we feel is a greater comfort and we'll continue to accept a greater inconvenience for greater comfort Until the scales tip, I think so we we'll, I mean, we'll unsubscribe to every Goddamn newsletter to have email, you know what I mean?

Type of thing. It's not, it's a crude analogy, but like we, you accept the fact that you're gonna get junk mail that Princess from Nigeria are gonna hit you up and be like, yo, can I send you these millions of dollars and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know you're gonna get those emails. It's an accepted inconvenience.

It's the price you pay for having email. You know you're gonna get spam and pop ups when you go on the internet. It's a price you pay for having the internet. It's kind of that accepted inconvenience. You know they're storing your data, but you get all these perks for it. You get to look up your ex-girlfriend

from high school on Facebook and see how fat she is. And you get to... With that, that's the point. It is you're saying the price you pay. It's, we think this shit is free, but it's actually becoming more expensive than we can ever know. It's just you can't quantify it. If they could quantify that price, if somebody could say to you actually Facebook cost you $47 a month and you're like, wait, what? And they're like, no, no, no, this is why. And then if somebody could put that together, all

of a sudden you realize that it's like $600 a month, right? The reason that millennials can't buy houses is because really what they're doing is they're Unknowingly paying these huge fees not straight from the bank account not from the paycheck, but just In another way the money all goes to these giant companies and away from people wanting to get and we just realize Oh, we all have these massive subscriptions we can't pay for. Yeah. I don't know. That's just, that's one of those stone of thoughts that I would have. But it seems like that to me. That's what I was getting from this. This one freaked me out.

Yeah. This was wild. I was like, holy shit. Yep. It, it, it, it was, it was, it, it, it was, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, what I already knew, but then I just kind of heard it and I was like, ah shit, I was right. It's kind of like, you know, when you think you've like broken your toe or something, you're like, ah, I bet it's broken. And then you go to the doctor and he's like,

yeah, it's broken, you're like, fuck! I was hoping it wasn't that, but it's definitely that, you know what I mean And now we have to deal with the reality of it Well, let's open in a way some of this shit comes out and they sort out that whistle blow at law So that he gets somewhat of a fair trial and I and I think there is a day In the future when maybe he can come back and they will let him off or maybe he has a trial and it's so televised and it's there's so much dialogue that he just gets off and it's seen as a win for America. It's a win for freedom. It's back to like the real core and basics and the things that protect us as the people. And then we're like, you know what, if we can do this,

maybe we can do some good shit, it's not all hopeless. This was a nice thing. Oh, you said. For me, just for the impact of what it is and how important I think it is. And it just goes to show, listen, Joe didn't say a lot. And it says a lot about that in the sense of,

this is a mega forum. Huge, right? Well, what more can you say? I mean, every time, even since you've started doing the podcast with me and reviewing it, it's like even during that short time has changed. Just with the candidates. It's amazing.

I mean, it's gonna happen more and more. It's gonna happen more and more. Yeah. He stamped his place. Of course it is. He stamped his place in the American lexicon of Q&A. I mean, he gives people a forum. It gives people a forum that absolutely no one else gives.

There's no one else that gives you three hours to simply talk. It just doesn't happen. Very. If you wanted to know about how the government runs and works its business through information and breaking the law and all the rest of it, there's no Fox News channel, there's no 60 minutes, there's no any other resource on the planet you would have turned to that in a sense, at least as far as Edward Snowden's concern, this would be it. Yeah, it's true. It was solid. Love it. All right, brother. I'm signing out from Paris. Thank you. It is always guys for downloading and listening. Like I said, there's going to be a lot of links on this one. Click him if you want. If not, then whatever. Just listen

to Rogan Talk to Snowden. That's probably going to be enough. Follow us on Joe Rogan Experience Review, Instagram, the Instagram is going to be changing a little bit coming up. We've got someone better than me to do it. It was never really my forte. Mark's going to be taking out over so keep our new logo soon. Things like that. It'll be cool. It's going to be cool. Yeah. Anything else? Any other new news? Website. Yeah, we got a website that's coming up. Instagram is going to be more active, I think, coming up in the next one to two weeks. I think you know, a lot of what we talk about in the podcast you're

going to see that pop up the Instagram. So there'll be just another avenue to follow any information that's brought up whether it's links, you know, comedians that we love that we mentioned that haven't been heard from in 20 years, jokes, whatever. I mean whatever tickles our fans, whatever relates back to the podcast, you'll see that. See a new logo, see what I did. The idea is just for information that we discuss on the podcast. So yeah, a lot of fun, cool new stuff coming up. So it's just to make it concise, right? And get as much information from his podcast that you guys as brain as you can find because

The idea originally was just that for me. It was like sometimes I like these guests I want to know more about them and it just it just sends me on a rabbit all the searching stuff And I was like man if someone could just put this shit together that would be awesome. Well, it wasn't happening So maybe we can do it. Maybe not though. We'll find out. We'll see. Alright. Thanks guys. Appreciate it. There's some Benye.